1 00:00:00,210 --> 00:00:27,540 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,620 Speaker 1: the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so 3 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,620 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, 4 00:00:33,659 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend, Maxwell Newcar Williams. 5 00:00:38,010 --> 00:00:41,750 Speaker 2: Bang, bang. Maxwell's silver new car. 6 00:00:42,510 --> 00:00:43,390 Speaker 1: Yes, yes. 7 00:00:43,450 --> 00:00:44,770 Speaker 3: It's black, but okay. 8 00:00:45,350 --> 00:00:49,210 Speaker 1: Well, it's, you know, insert reference here. We'll fix an editing. 9 00:00:49,270 --> 00:00:52,650 Speaker 1: Shout out to Sylvia Rosemary. That is the one and 10 00:00:52,750 --> 00:00:56,150 Speaker 1: only returned from the grave, Noel Brown. 11 00:00:56,170 --> 00:00:59,450 Speaker 2: And what a grave it's been, Ben. Been Ben. 12 00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 4: It's been a grave, grave, grave because I was gravely ill. 13 00:01:03,330 --> 00:01:05,940 Speaker 4: And y'all were kind enough to help me out and 14 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 4: let me rest up. And as you can still hear 15 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: in my voice, I'm sort of on the tail end 16 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 4: of a bit of a bout of plague. But I'm 17 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,700 Speaker 4: happy to be back joined with you lovely fellows and 18 00:01:15,780 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 4: you lovely Ridiculous Historians out there in Ridiculous Historyland. 19 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,210 Speaker 1: Yes, yes. And as you can tell. I've got a 20 00:01:22,250 --> 00:01:24,390 Speaker 1: bit of a Batman voice as well, but I think 21 00:01:24,450 --> 00:01:27,970 Speaker 1: it suits us, Noel, because you and I are very 22 00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:32,870 Speaker 1: out-the-box dudes, as well as Max. They call me Ben Bullen. 23 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:36,750 Speaker 1: This is Ridiculous History. We've been on a bit of 24 00:01:36,910 --> 00:01:38,589 Speaker 1: a nuclear weapons kick. 25 00:01:39,610 --> 00:01:45,370 Speaker 2: You could say that as a people. As a civilization. 26 00:01:45,450 --> 00:01:48,150 Speaker 2: We do live in a society, it turns out. One 27 00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:48,890 Speaker 2: run by fear of nukes. 28 00:01:51,110 --> 00:01:51,390 Speaker 5: Right. 29 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: Now, before you say, sirs, this is a Wendy's, we 30 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,940 Speaker 1: want you to know that the entirety of the society 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: that you referenced, Noel, has been fascinated and terrified of 32 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,540 Speaker 1: nuclear technology since World War II. And part of that 33 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: is because the same recipe and the same process you 34 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:17,270 Speaker 1: use to make peaceful nuclear energy can make world-ending nuclear weapons. 35 00:02:18,110 --> 00:02:20,389 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. But what if we could like make 36 00:02:20,410 --> 00:02:22,970 Speaker 2: them real small? Right. 37 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 4: Wouldn't that be a real game changer for this fear 38 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,260 Speaker 4: and paranoia that you're describing? 39 00:02:28,860 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: Dude, yes, because we know that right now, most people 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,990 Speaker 1: on the planet are aware that nuclear weapons can be bad. 41 00:02:38,210 --> 00:02:41,550 Speaker 1: Only a few countries have nuclear weapons and they have 42 00:02:41,590 --> 00:02:44,130 Speaker 1: a bunch of kind of window dressing about how they're 43 00:02:44,169 --> 00:02:47,460 Speaker 1: going to Use them and never use them. But like 44 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: you were saying, in the years and decades right after 45 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: the invention of the atomic bomb, people were not so hesitant. 46 00:02:55,810 --> 00:02:59,550 Speaker 1: There were really powerful folks who were saying, we should 47 00:02:59,590 --> 00:03:01,889 Speaker 1: get weird with it. What else can we do with 48 00:03:01,930 --> 00:03:03,290 Speaker 1: this new dangerous toy? 49 00:03:10,060 --> 00:03:12,020 Speaker 4: Ben, speaking of getting weird with it, it only just 50 00:03:12,060 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 4: recently kind of occurred to me that it is bizarre 51 00:03:15,340 --> 00:03:19,329 Speaker 4: that Oppenheimer was such a mega, mega, mega blockbuster. I 52 00:03:20,590 --> 00:03:23,470 Speaker 4: think it's just a Christopher Nolan effect. And I actually 53 00:03:23,510 --> 00:03:24,570 Speaker 4: didn't see the movie. 54 00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:25,790 Speaker 2: I heard it was good. 55 00:03:25,810 --> 00:03:27,410 Speaker 4: I heard there were parts of it that felt like 56 00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 4: it glossed over some of the actual, you know, human 57 00:03:30,530 --> 00:03:33,970 Speaker 4: cost in favor of kind of like showing the I 58 00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:37,450 Speaker 4: don't know the pathos of the man himself, uh, Robert Oppenheimer, 59 00:03:37,670 --> 00:03:38,870 Speaker 4: but I haven't seen it. So I can't comment on 60 00:03:38,890 --> 00:03:41,270 Speaker 4: that directly, but I do think that the fact that 61 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:45,900 Speaker 4: a movie about a scientist was the, one of the 62 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,180 Speaker 4: biggest movies of all time. 63 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's worth a watch. Uh, if you would 64 00:03:51,140 --> 00:03:53,260 Speaker 1: like to, if you would like to check it out, 65 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,620 Speaker 1: there's also a great graphic novel or pal, Matt Frederick 66 00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: hipped me to a while back called Trinity. Check that 67 00:03:59,940 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: out as well. Uh, Folks, behind the scenes, pretty much 68 00:04:03,340 --> 00:04:09,490 Speaker 1: every government and cough-cough corporation, cough-cough, was trying to answer questions. 69 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,690 Speaker 1: In the wake of the atomic age, they were saying, 70 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:14,510 Speaker 1: what's the biggest bomb we can make? How long does 71 00:04:14,570 --> 00:04:18,230 Speaker 1: radiation last? How does fallout travel? How long will stuff 72 00:04:18,250 --> 00:04:22,029 Speaker 1: be contaminated? What happens when people who are exposed to 73 00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:25,969 Speaker 1: the consequences of a bomb have children? And so quickly, 74 00:04:26,070 --> 00:04:30,989 Speaker 1: after the bombings at Nagasaki and Hiroshima, People started asking 75 00:04:31,190 --> 00:04:34,710 Speaker 1: exactly what you teased, Noel. They said, not how big 76 00:04:34,730 --> 00:04:38,010 Speaker 1: can we make a bomb, how small can we make 77 00:04:38,050 --> 00:04:38,490 Speaker 1: a bomb? 78 00:04:38,529 --> 00:04:42,710 Speaker 4: Speaking of Fallout, Ben, in the Fallout universe of video 79 00:04:42,730 --> 00:04:46,339 Speaker 4: games and now a pretty decent television series, the mini-nuke 80 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 4: is one of the most powerful deployable weapons that you 81 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:51,700 Speaker 4: can get. 82 00:04:52,570 --> 00:04:53,610 Speaker 1: Hmm. Yeah. 83 00:04:53,730 --> 00:04:54,010 Speaker 2: Yeah. 84 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:56,070 Speaker 1: And how big is the mini nuke? 85 00:04:56,970 --> 00:05:02,570 Speaker 2: It is about the size and look of a propane tank. 86 00:05:03,210 --> 00:05:05,140 Speaker 3: So to jump in here real quick, I just want 87 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: to reference Fort Hagen, which is a location you have 88 00:05:07,980 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 3: to go to if you do the Brotherhood of Steel 89 00:05:09,540 --> 00:05:13,260 Speaker 3: quest line in Fallout 4, where there's this facility and 90 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:14,979 Speaker 3: on one floor, I forget what they're developing, but it's 91 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 3: super easy. And the other floor, they're trying to develop 92 00:05:17,380 --> 00:05:20,849 Speaker 3: a deployment technique for the mini nuke, which is basically 93 00:05:20,910 --> 00:05:24,570 Speaker 3: launched with a slingshot. And the problem is they just, uh, 94 00:05:24,670 --> 00:05:26,010 Speaker 3: most of the times, and this is a problem you'd 95 00:05:26,029 --> 00:05:29,130 Speaker 3: run into in the game, you end up blowing yourself up, 96 00:05:29,490 --> 00:05:31,170 Speaker 3: which is kind of the story of a nuke. You 97 00:05:31,190 --> 00:05:33,370 Speaker 3: might destroy things, but you yourself. 98 00:05:34,300 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 4: And therein lies the quandary of how small can we 99 00:05:36,860 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 4: make it? Like, wow, it'd be dope if we could 100 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,980 Speaker 4: have nuclear hand grenades, but she couldn't throw it physically 101 00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:44,300 Speaker 4: far enough that you yourself would not be in the 102 00:05:44,339 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 4: line of, you know, fire explosion. 103 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: Horrific, horrific fallout. 104 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,550 Speaker 1: Yeah. And the fancy word for that is Pyrrhic victory. 105 00:05:53,750 --> 00:05:56,790 Speaker 2: That's right. Foisted on your own petard. 106 00:05:57,420 --> 00:05:57,660 Speaker 5: Yes. 107 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:58,100 Speaker 1: Yes. 108 00:05:58,220 --> 00:06:00,180 Speaker 2: You know, a petard is a grenade. I didn't. 109 00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:02,289 Speaker 4: I learned that like last year because it's a term 110 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:04,690 Speaker 4: my friend Frank and I use often when we are 111 00:06:05,029 --> 00:06:08,090 Speaker 4: playing Mario Kart and we hit ourselves with our own 112 00:06:08,130 --> 00:06:10,750 Speaker 4: green shell. We call that getting foisted on our own petard. 113 00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:12,430 Speaker 4: And we finally thought to look it up. And a 114 00:06:12,470 --> 00:06:15,099 Speaker 4: petard was a French term for one of those long 115 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:16,580 Speaker 4: boy grenades that looks. 116 00:06:16,420 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: Kind of like a stick, you know, you throw. Yeah. 117 00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:21,460 Speaker 2: You blow yourself up with your own grenade. Yes. 118 00:06:21,740 --> 00:06:25,500 Speaker 1: Yes. Again, a Pyrrhic victory. And at the, at this 119 00:06:25,580 --> 00:06:29,420 Speaker 1: point in history, The United States and the world overall 120 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,620 Speaker 1: was not super concerned with the idea of Pyrrhic victories 121 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:38,099 Speaker 1: or the philosophical quandaries thereof. Instead, they said, look, why 122 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,220 Speaker 1: don't we take these big nukes, make something that can 123 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,190 Speaker 1: fit in a briefcase? Ooh, what about a backpack? 124 00:06:44,550 --> 00:06:47,550 Speaker 4: Ben, so you're saying let's just figure out the consequences later? 125 00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:50,110 Speaker 4: This attitude's been around a long time, you're saying? 126 00:06:50,810 --> 00:06:54,710 Speaker 1: Very much so. It reminds me of a phrase you 127 00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:57,330 Speaker 1: used to say pretty often, Noel, which is, what was it, 128 00:06:57,330 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: move fast and break stuff? 129 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 4: That's the Silicon Valley way that seems to have bled 130 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 4: its way into. 131 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,900 Speaker 2: You know, the everyday goings on of the U.S. government 132 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: as well. Yes, agreed. 133 00:07:10,110 --> 00:07:13,170 Speaker 1: And they were asking, these boffins, they were asking some 134 00:07:13,190 --> 00:07:16,390 Speaker 1: of the questions that we've already asked. They said, okay, 135 00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:20,869 Speaker 1: how on earth could we miniaturize a nuclear weapon knowing 136 00:07:20,930 --> 00:07:24,300 Speaker 1: that it's expensive, the technology is really finicky? How can 137 00:07:24,340 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: we guarantee it works? How can we make it small 138 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: enough for a single human person to carry? And how 139 00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:35,820 Speaker 1: can we, to the big question here, how can we 140 00:07:35,860 --> 00:07:39,700 Speaker 1: make it safe enough for the people carrying it to 141 00:07:39,820 --> 00:07:41,890 Speaker 1: stay alive until it's time. 142 00:07:41,690 --> 00:07:43,350 Speaker 2: To rock and roll? Right. 143 00:07:43,450 --> 00:07:46,850 Speaker 4: And if this concept of making, you know, the world's 144 00:07:47,030 --> 00:07:51,930 Speaker 4: most dangerous weapon of mass destruction, little tiny cute guy, 145 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 4: That sounds a little bit how I learned to stop 146 00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:59,500 Speaker 4: worrying and love the bomb, strange love level crazy. 147 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:02,410 Speaker 2: Well, it is. It's, again, one of these things where 148 00:08:02,450 --> 00:08:06,010 Speaker 2: it's like, well, why not? Why not do that thing? 149 00:08:06,570 --> 00:08:10,910 Speaker 2: What if the other guys are doing it? Yeah. Consequences 150 00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: be damned. Because, I mean, the answer is you can't. Right. Exactly. 151 00:08:16,130 --> 00:08:19,860 Speaker 2: You just can't. This idea is foolish by its very nature. 152 00:08:20,580 --> 00:08:25,860 Speaker 1: It's definitely... empiric again, because this we also have to remember, folks, 153 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,940 Speaker 1: this reasoning is coming about during the Cold War. So 154 00:08:30,990 --> 00:08:34,140 Speaker 1: the Soviet bloc and the Western bloc, they're throwing all 155 00:08:34,179 --> 00:08:36,510 Speaker 1: kinds of crazy ideas out there. They're like, what if 156 00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:41,210 Speaker 1: we bake cats semi-robotic? What if we teach bats? 157 00:08:41,510 --> 00:08:43,010 Speaker 2: Cocaine's a hell of a drug, man. 158 00:08:44,130 --> 00:08:46,450 Speaker 1: Maybe it was. Maybe it was one of those meetings 159 00:08:46,510 --> 00:08:49,650 Speaker 1: for us. But we got to remember that stuff was 160 00:08:49,750 --> 00:08:52,890 Speaker 1: not sweet. for the U.S. and NATO early on in 161 00:08:52,910 --> 00:08:57,179 Speaker 1: the Cold War. Ignore what your history textbooks may have 162 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: told you. 163 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,420 Speaker 2: It was not a kumbaya off, to say the least. 164 00:09:00,980 --> 00:09:01,980 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 165 00:09:02,020 --> 00:09:05,579 Speaker 1: Because at the close of World War II, the United 166 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,050 Speaker 1: States is in a catbird seat because their industry hasn't 167 00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:13,470 Speaker 1: been demolished by the actions of the European theater. But 168 00:09:13,530 --> 00:09:17,970 Speaker 1: the West overall is still outmanned, outgunned. I'm not going 169 00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:21,329 Speaker 1: to do the Hamilton thing. In comparison to the Soviet bloc. 170 00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:25,610 Speaker 1: So what they were thinking, Uncle Sam and his boys 171 00:09:25,790 --> 00:09:28,329 Speaker 1: at this time, they were saying, yeah, the Soviets have 172 00:09:28,390 --> 00:09:31,830 Speaker 1: more people than us. And yeah, they have more machinery 173 00:09:31,870 --> 00:09:35,510 Speaker 1: of war, but we have the bomb. So we have 174 00:09:35,570 --> 00:09:39,790 Speaker 1: to let everybody know over the Iron Curtain that we're 175 00:09:39,870 --> 00:09:42,790 Speaker 1: totally fine with dropping the nukes. You know what I mean? 176 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,700 Speaker 1: We are totally fine. 177 00:09:45,390 --> 00:09:47,750 Speaker 2: It's, it's, it's not a bad tactic. 178 00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:51,740 Speaker 4: It's a lot of talk, but we did do it once. 179 00:09:52,420 --> 00:09:56,230 Speaker 2: So, I mean, who's to say, right? We're crazy. 180 00:09:56,890 --> 00:09:59,890 Speaker 1: It's such, yeah, it's like crazy like a fox. It's, 181 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:04,180 Speaker 1: There's a rabidity to it. And so it came to 182 00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: pass from the 1940s through the 1980s, the U.S. and 183 00:10:08,780 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union spent so much time and energy and 184 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:18,420 Speaker 1: money and resources figuring out how to use nuclear weapons 185 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,740 Speaker 1: because mad was not a thing at this point. Mutually 186 00:10:21,780 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: assured destruction. Everybody who was making decisions assumed that nuclear 187 00:10:28,350 --> 00:10:31,729 Speaker 1: weapons were a matter of when rather than a matter 188 00:10:31,770 --> 00:10:35,250 Speaker 1: of if. They were like, these bombs are happening. We 189 00:10:35,270 --> 00:10:36,430 Speaker 1: got to figure out the best. 190 00:10:36,309 --> 00:10:36,950 Speaker 2: Way to drop them. 191 00:10:37,309 --> 00:10:41,490 Speaker 4: I mean, I personally find it kind of wild that 192 00:10:41,530 --> 00:10:44,459 Speaker 4: it's really only happened once or twice. 193 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:46,380 Speaker 2: Three times a lady. 194 00:10:46,690 --> 00:10:50,979 Speaker 4: I mean, just given the absolute division of international affairs 195 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,819 Speaker 4: that have waxed and waned over the years since World 196 00:10:53,860 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 4: War II, I mean, I guess if there's ever going 197 00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 4: to be a time that it might happen again, I mean, 198 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 4: knock on wood, for God's sake, it's now-ish. But I 199 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,650 Speaker 4: am kind of, there is a slight sense of belief 200 00:11:06,690 --> 00:11:09,530 Speaker 4: in humanity that it hasn't happened again. And I'm not 201 00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:12,190 Speaker 4: even blaming the United States for doing what they did. 202 00:11:13,050 --> 00:11:15,429 Speaker 2: It was, would you say it was necessary, Ben? 203 00:11:15,970 --> 00:11:18,030 Speaker 1: The bombing of Japan? 204 00:11:18,070 --> 00:11:20,350 Speaker 2: Was it the only choice? Was it really the only way? 205 00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:22,010 Speaker 2: Or do you think there were other ways? 206 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: I believe there were other ways, fundamentally. 207 00:11:27,460 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 4: And that act, though, the act of doing that is 208 00:11:31,020 --> 00:11:36,260 Speaker 4: what led to this whole ability to posture in this way, right? 209 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: 100%, yeah. I mean, this also, this posture, to use 210 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,790 Speaker 1: your term there, this paints the U.S. into a dangerous corner. 211 00:11:45,550 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: you don't have much flexibility in how you respond to aggression. 212 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:55,380 Speaker 1: So you're saying if communist forces launch a conventional non-nuclear attack, 213 00:11:55,900 --> 00:11:59,700 Speaker 1: then you as the West, you have to either purposefully 214 00:12:00,140 --> 00:12:04,980 Speaker 1: lose that conflict or you have to go full doomsday 215 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,819 Speaker 1: and drop nuclear bombs again. And that would create a 216 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,490 Speaker 1: back and forth exchange that's going to kill millions of people. 217 00:12:13,710 --> 00:12:16,010 Speaker 1: And You know, a big reason it's going to kill 218 00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:20,420 Speaker 1: millions of people is because Uncle Sam only had chunky 219 00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: nuke boys. They didn't have a mini nuke. They had 220 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,540 Speaker 1: just the stuff that would burn cities. 221 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 2: This is a heavy topic, Ben. 222 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 4: We haven't even really gotten into the meat and potatoes 223 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 4: of it yet. 224 00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: I don't know. 225 00:12:33,460 --> 00:12:35,219 Speaker 4: I guess we are just living in a time where 226 00:12:35,260 --> 00:12:40,990 Speaker 4: the specter of this– Especially when we're talking about Iran 227 00:12:41,070 --> 00:12:42,990 Speaker 4: and they cannot have a nuclear weapon and all of 228 00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:45,689 Speaker 4: that stuff. It just feels bigger than it has in 229 00:12:45,730 --> 00:12:46,429 Speaker 4: my lifetime. 230 00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:48,870 Speaker 1: Yeah. 231 00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:49,470 Speaker 2: Yeah. 232 00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:56,340 Speaker 1: I mean, Iran's been two weeks away for years, right? 233 00:12:56,380 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: For decades. But the issue is now circumstances have changed 234 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: in the United States, right? That's probably where you're getting 235 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:11,370 Speaker 1: that looming storm on the horizon feeling. Because previously, since 236 00:13:11,429 --> 00:13:14,750 Speaker 1: World War II, about up to now, the U.S. would 237 00:13:14,770 --> 00:13:18,150 Speaker 1: do everything in its power not to deploy a nuke. 238 00:13:19,010 --> 00:13:21,860 Speaker 1: And now things are a little bit squirrely, right? People 239 00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: are feeling froggy. And you can only stay on a 240 00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:29,460 Speaker 1: lily pad so long before you hop. So they knew 241 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,140 Speaker 1: way back in the Cold War, they knew that because 242 00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:36,990 Speaker 1: they were reliant on nuclear weapons— There was no way 243 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:41,090 Speaker 1: not to escalate things. They would be entering a boxing match, 244 00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:45,050 Speaker 1: getting jabbed once, and then pulling out a gun and 245 00:13:45,150 --> 00:13:48,740 Speaker 1: shooting down not just their opponent, but everybody in the audience. 246 00:13:48,770 --> 00:13:52,500 Speaker 1: So they needed something a little more friendly, a little 247 00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:53,980 Speaker 1: less world-ending. 248 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 4: Okay, but is that kind of not quite how... I mean, 249 00:13:58,580 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 4: I guess there's megatons. So you could have like... Could 250 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 4: you have like a. 251 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: Could you have a mini-nuke? 252 00:14:05,740 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: Could you have a little fart? 253 00:14:06,850 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: Just a little bit of a poof. 254 00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:12,030 Speaker 1: Just a little, just a little, just a piff instead. 255 00:14:11,710 --> 00:14:13,530 Speaker 2: Of a pfft. Yeah, maybe. 256 00:14:13,550 --> 00:14:16,410 Speaker 4: I do wonder, because I guess, I mean, the nature 257 00:14:16,450 --> 00:14:20,430 Speaker 4: of a nuclear reaction and the subsequent explosion and fallout, 258 00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:25,580 Speaker 4: it just seems kind of like the nature of the technology. Like, 259 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:27,700 Speaker 4: I'm not sure how you would, like, you know, kind 260 00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 4: of trim it down. 261 00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, like, how do we build a gun that doesn't shoot? 262 00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:36,390 Speaker 1: The things that they dropped on Japan, Fat Man and 263 00:14:36,430 --> 00:14:39,410 Speaker 1: Little Boy, those are the big ones we're talking about, 264 00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:44,890 Speaker 1: strategic nuclear weapons. They're meant to be total war doctrine. Cities, 265 00:14:45,170 --> 00:14:50,580 Speaker 1: industrial centers, military bases, they're looking for something smaller, what 266 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,100 Speaker 1: they call a tactical nuclear weapon. To your point, it 267 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: has lower explosive power. You can take infantry. You can 268 00:14:59,580 --> 00:15:04,290 Speaker 1: take on-the-ground troops and deploy it on the battlefield. And 269 00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:07,210 Speaker 1: I hate to say it because it sounds so soulless, 270 00:15:07,870 --> 00:15:10,710 Speaker 1: but really what they were thinking about is also how 271 00:15:10,750 --> 00:15:13,790 Speaker 1: much money they could save because you don't need aircraft. 272 00:15:15,230 --> 00:15:19,210 Speaker 1: You don't need heavy bombers. You know, they're expensive to operate. 273 00:15:19,550 --> 00:15:21,450 Speaker 1: It's easy to shoot them from the sky. 274 00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:26,980 Speaker 4: Or, you know, really expensive tech like intercontinental ballistic missiles, 275 00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 4: which is the method of carrying the nuclear payload. 276 00:15:30,670 --> 00:15:31,430 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. 277 00:15:31,490 --> 00:15:34,190 Speaker 1: You don't have to waste those resources. You can move 278 00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:37,530 Speaker 1: the weapons in ways that are a lot more difficult 279 00:15:37,610 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: to detect. So from their perspective, Uncle Sam at this 280 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: point is saying, really, we're just making artillery. We're making 281 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: artillery plus super artillery, if you will. It'll be powerful 282 00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: enough to change the course of a battle, but it 283 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: won't be destructive enough to plunge us back into another 284 00:15:57,870 --> 00:16:02,750 Speaker 1: world war. So they made porta nukes. It's a true story. 285 00:16:02,770 --> 00:16:04,990 Speaker 1: It's so ridiculous. They made backpack nukes. 286 00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:12,810 Speaker 2: Yes, indeed. 287 00:16:12,890 --> 00:16:16,710 Speaker 4: These suitcase or backpack nukes had to, above all else, 288 00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:19,910 Speaker 4: be easy to move, as you've been kind of getting at, Ben. 289 00:16:20,290 --> 00:16:22,310 Speaker 4: Folks said about trying to make them less than 100 290 00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:27,370 Speaker 4: pounds max. In the United States, there were specially trained 291 00:16:27,530 --> 00:16:31,050 Speaker 4: troops known as green light troops who ran these specific 292 00:16:31,130 --> 00:16:34,700 Speaker 4: drills involving jumping out of low-flying planes in order to 293 00:16:34,780 --> 00:16:39,380 Speaker 4: practice carrying and handling these new weapons, deploying them safely 294 00:16:39,420 --> 00:16:42,900 Speaker 4: to the ground without blowing themselves up in the process. 295 00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:44,870 Speaker 4: I don't know why this just reminds me of like 296 00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:48,950 Speaker 4: this really tense moments in movies where you see people like, 297 00:16:49,210 --> 00:16:52,010 Speaker 4: I think it's Lost that I'm thinking of, like slowly 298 00:16:52,170 --> 00:16:54,430 Speaker 4: moving unstable dynamite because if. 299 00:16:54,380 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: You drop it or something, it'll like. Don't shake it. 300 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:57,710 Speaker 1: Don't shake it. 301 00:16:57,740 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: It's unstable nitro. Exactly. 302 00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: Yes. 303 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: These Cold War soldiers were actually training, just like you said, 304 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,939 Speaker 1: all the green light troops were carrying something called the 305 00:17:09,090 --> 00:17:14,690 Speaker 1: B-54 machine. Special Atomic Demolition Munition, or SATOM. 306 00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:17,070 Speaker 2: SATOM. Cute. 307 00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:21,250 Speaker 1: It was cute. It was also small. It was very kawaii. 308 00:17:21,550 --> 00:17:24,790 Speaker 1: It was small enough to fit inside a backpack, depending 309 00:17:25,090 --> 00:17:26,609 Speaker 1: on how you define backpack. 310 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:29,490 Speaker 2: I guess I'm picturing proton pack kind of vibes. There 311 00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:30,810 Speaker 2: we go. Yeah. 312 00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:33,540 Speaker 1: I mean, that's closer to it, dude, because this will 313 00:17:33,670 --> 00:17:40,140 Speaker 1: not fit in your average back-to-school backpack. It's like, well, 314 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: we have a quote with the dimensions. 315 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:42,260 Speaker 2: It's a good one. 316 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,180 Speaker 4: The B-54 stood 18 inches tall, encased in an aluminum 317 00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 4: and fiberglass frame, rounded to a bullet shape on one end, 318 00:17:53,460 --> 00:17:56,700 Speaker 4: and had a 12-inch diameter control panel on the other. 319 00:17:57,180 --> 00:18:01,220 Speaker 4: According to an Army manual, the weapon's maximum explosive yield 320 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 4: was less than one kiloton. Okay, so the kiloton, Ben, 321 00:18:04,109 --> 00:18:09,570 Speaker 4: that's the... Terminology used to measure the explosive radius, I guess. 322 00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:10,110 Speaker 1: The blast. 323 00:18:10,170 --> 00:18:14,699 Speaker 2: Got it. The explosion. Continuing. That is the equivalent of 324 00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: a thousand tons of TNT. Yeah, just a thousand tons 325 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 2: of TNT. Between friends. Yeah. What's a thousand tons of 326 00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:26,230 Speaker 2: TNT between friends? Again, I'm still failing to see. 327 00:18:27,609 --> 00:18:30,689 Speaker 4: How this is like a light kind of version you 328 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 4: know a thousand tons that's like sort of the difference 329 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:35,580 Speaker 4: in a billion and a million you. 330 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: Know we were all very excited in the meeting right 331 00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:40,460 Speaker 1: really i'm telling you. 332 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,260 Speaker 4: You know what maybe they got a hold of some 333 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 4: of those nazi speed pills and that's where this. 334 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: Maybe that was it yeah because they also said hey 335 00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: guys we're not going full crazy and We don't want 336 00:18:52,220 --> 00:18:55,820 Speaker 1: anybody to use the bomb unless they're authorized. So we're 337 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,750 Speaker 1: going to have a little cover plate. It's going to 338 00:18:57,770 --> 00:18:59,230 Speaker 1: have a little combination lock. 339 00:18:59,250 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 2: Just stop it. 340 00:19:00,590 --> 00:19:01,950 Speaker 1: And we're going to have a little glow in the 341 00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: dark paint on the lock so that if you're out 342 00:19:05,420 --> 00:19:07,970 Speaker 1: in the field at night... You can unlock the bomb 343 00:19:08,010 --> 00:19:08,330 Speaker 1: at night. 344 00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:11,770 Speaker 2: It's like your IndieGlo watch. This is too adorable. 345 00:19:12,030 --> 00:19:15,210 Speaker 1: It's just the worst part about improv. You can't yes and. 346 00:19:15,050 --> 00:19:15,530 Speaker 2: All the time. 347 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,780 Speaker 4: You should really maybe not on this one. Here's what 348 00:19:18,820 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 4: it looked like. Ben, you found the picture. It's got 349 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 4: its own little carrying case, little zipper thing. It looks 350 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,900 Speaker 4: like a thermos or something, man. I mean, I get 351 00:19:28,940 --> 00:19:32,460 Speaker 4: it's hard to tell the scale. But could you help 352 00:19:32,510 --> 00:19:34,450 Speaker 4: me with the scale, Ben? I'm looking at it and 353 00:19:34,690 --> 00:19:36,210 Speaker 4: it does look like it's got a handle. I mean, 354 00:19:36,250 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 4: this would be Again, it's carryable. This is like a 355 00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:40,660 Speaker 4: very large carry-on bag. 356 00:19:41,290 --> 00:19:45,570 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It's like a duffel bag with a conic 357 00:19:46,170 --> 00:19:48,630 Speaker 1: top to it. It's got some straps so you can 358 00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:52,380 Speaker 1: strap it to yourself. At the reverse on the flat side, 359 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 1: it has a long zipper that goes the circumference of 360 00:19:56,580 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: the package. I was remembering, Nolan, the research for this, 361 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: our conversation not too long ago where we talked about 362 00:20:06,619 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: how we get stopped at airports when we travel. Because 363 00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:14,469 Speaker 1: we have suspicious gear, our mics, our recording components, our 364 00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:19,169 Speaker 1: field gear. It's always a polite conversation, but can you 365 00:20:19,230 --> 00:20:21,190 Speaker 1: imagine taking this through the TSA? 366 00:20:21,369 --> 00:20:22,629 Speaker 2: No, I can't, Ben. 367 00:20:22,810 --> 00:20:24,290 Speaker 4: Well, maybe I can, and both of us can a 368 00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 4: little bit, because a microphone in particular really does look 369 00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 4: quite bomb-like. It is a metal encasement, you know, full 370 00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:36,420 Speaker 4: of little small electronic components and wires. 371 00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:37,500 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 372 00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:41,970 Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you check out the pictures of these 373 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: various iterations of the backpack nuke, you can also see 374 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,859 Speaker 1: what we described there, the duffel bag, that's the outer 375 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,210 Speaker 1: cover for a parachuting kit, right? So if you open that, 376 00:20:56,510 --> 00:21:00,670 Speaker 1: you'll see another version that is a series of nested 377 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: canisters and we got to go to the third picture here. 378 00:21:04,109 --> 00:21:06,490 Speaker 2: It's awesome this is where you get the scale you you. 379 00:21:06,369 --> 00:21:08,990 Speaker 1: Could see it uh you could see it anytime you 380 00:21:09,030 --> 00:21:13,969 Speaker 1: check for backpack nukes the green light troops had to 381 00:21:14,030 --> 00:21:18,250 Speaker 1: strap this to themselves they were already wearing parachutes and 382 00:21:18,369 --> 00:21:21,310 Speaker 1: other gear so they strapped it to their tank. 383 00:21:21,150 --> 00:21:27,550 Speaker 4: It's strapped betwixt their their legs akimbo yeah They are 384 00:21:27,630 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 4: spread eagle flying down out of the clear blue sky 385 00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 4: with a giant nuclear bomb strapped to their junk. 386 00:21:34,180 --> 00:21:35,900 Speaker 2: Oh, and Ben, the more I look at these pictures 387 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,580 Speaker 2: and read some of these descriptions, the. 388 00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 4: More I mean, it's clear that the mini nuke in 389 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:40,980 Speaker 4: Fallout was inspired by this. 390 00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:43,670 Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah. No, you know what? 391 00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:46,850 Speaker 1: Now you say it. I agree because these folks had to, 392 00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:50,810 Speaker 1: they were trained to parachute or scuba dive behind enemy 393 00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: lines with their tiny boy nukes. And the idea was 394 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: you were going to blow up a military base or 395 00:21:57,859 --> 00:22:02,670 Speaker 1: a strategic installation or you're just going to make vast 396 00:22:02,910 --> 00:22:05,430 Speaker 1: swaths of land uninhabitable. 397 00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:06,210 Speaker 2: Yeah, scorched earth. 398 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:08,090 Speaker 1: Scorched earth, right. 399 00:22:08,730 --> 00:22:10,570 Speaker 4: Oh, and really quickly back to the mini-nuke and the 400 00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:14,460 Speaker 4: fallout thing. It is clearly meant to be satirical. It 401 00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:20,060 Speaker 4: is a largely– Pyrrhic weapon, to Max's point. You would 402 00:22:20,150 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 4: often blow yourself up when you use this thing. It's 403 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 4: very difficult to use effectively. 404 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 3: And to jump in here, in Fallout 4, there's like, 405 00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 3: I think there's only like one, there's only a few, 406 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 3: like many, the guns in Fallout you can upgrade in 407 00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:36,070 Speaker 3: many different ways. The Fat Man, which is the launcher 408 00:22:36,109 --> 00:22:38,710 Speaker 3: of the mini-nuke, has one where it launches a bunch 409 00:22:38,730 --> 00:22:41,469 Speaker 3: of mini-nukes and there's virtually no way to safely use 410 00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:43,290 Speaker 3: it without killing yourself instantly. 411 00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:46,469 Speaker 2: Yeah, again, Fallout gets it. Fallout understood the assignment. It's 412 00:22:46,510 --> 00:22:47,030 Speaker 2: good satire. 413 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,460 Speaker 1: Yeah. We also know, going back to this idea of 414 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,700 Speaker 1: Pyrrhic victory, there's a reason we're teasing this, because we 415 00:22:55,859 --> 00:23:02,450 Speaker 1: found video clips from training exercises. We found evidence from 416 00:23:02,830 --> 00:23:08,390 Speaker 1: our own government about contingency plans. And this was very much, 417 00:23:08,590 --> 00:23:12,530 Speaker 1: despite the fact that the U.S. had such strong propaganda 418 00:23:12,730 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: against suicide bombers like Kamikaze or Divine Wind, pilots in 419 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: World War II from Japan, they were pretty much planning 420 00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: for the Greenlight Boys to die. They had these, you know, 421 00:23:27,180 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: fig leaf plans where they're like, here's how you escape 422 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:35,139 Speaker 1: the scene before the bomb detonates. You have a timer, okay? 423 00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: You have a mechanical timer. You can set it up 424 00:23:37,619 --> 00:23:42,479 Speaker 1: to 27 hours, which solves our fallout problem. But the 425 00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: issue is the device is are relying on mechanical timers 426 00:23:49,140 --> 00:23:53,580 Speaker 1: for their detonators, and those are inherently unreliable. So they 427 00:23:53,619 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: could go off eight minutes early, they could go off 428 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,830 Speaker 1: 13 minutes late, you could still be in the blast radius. 429 00:23:59,869 --> 00:24:04,130 Speaker 2: For sure. Do you think that the Greenlight troops understood 430 00:24:04,210 --> 00:24:07,510 Speaker 2: this risk, or was this something that was maybe sugar-coated 431 00:24:07,550 --> 00:24:09,190 Speaker 2: to them a little bit by Uncle Sam? 432 00:24:10,090 --> 00:24:12,229 Speaker 1: I would like to think, Noel, that they were telling 433 00:24:12,290 --> 00:24:17,139 Speaker 1: the truth to the troops, as always. it was widely accepted, 434 00:24:17,740 --> 00:24:20,820 Speaker 1: no matter what the official stance was, that these endeavors 435 00:24:20,859 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: could turn into suicide missions. And there were even some 436 00:24:24,090 --> 00:24:29,030 Speaker 1: green light team instructors who would make it more suicidal. 437 00:24:29,090 --> 00:24:31,670 Speaker 1: They would say, look, if you're on my team, you 438 00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:34,850 Speaker 1: have to stay within visual range of that detonation to 439 00:24:34,910 --> 00:24:38,139 Speaker 1: make sure it goes off. So that means that if 440 00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: you want to pull off a successful strike, your team 441 00:24:41,260 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: has to infiltrate enemy lines, sneak up on the enemy location, 442 00:24:46,619 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: carrying an untrustworthy nuclear weapon, then set it, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, 443 00:24:51,980 --> 00:24:55,420 Speaker 1: wait for it to explode, watch it explode, and then 444 00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,820 Speaker 1: somehow get back to friendly lands. 445 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 4: Well, it's almost an example of keeping up with the 446 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,490 Speaker 4: Joneses that were the kamikaze pilots. 447 00:25:04,450 --> 00:25:14,300 Speaker 1: I guess you're right, yeah. We also know Lest we 448 00:25:14,540 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 1: ridicule Uncle Sam too much, we know that Soviet powers– Yeah, 449 00:25:17,940 --> 00:25:20,030 Speaker 1: he can take it. He can take it. 450 00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:20,740 Speaker 2: He's a big boy. 451 00:25:21,380 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: We know that Soviet powers were working on the same thing. 452 00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: This is weird. I love that you're mentioning keeping up 453 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: with the Joneses because this is also a golden age 454 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,340 Speaker 1: of spying. Both the Soviets and the USA were riddled 455 00:25:37,540 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: with spies. They already always kind of knew a little 456 00:25:41,780 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: bit about what the other guy was up to. So 457 00:25:44,020 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: they kept freaking each other out, right? Like, these guys 458 00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: are building a smaller bomb. Well, we're going to strap 459 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,740 Speaker 1: one to our guys' butts. 460 00:25:53,030 --> 00:25:55,550 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, again, even that attitude or that feeling 461 00:25:55,670 --> 00:25:59,909 Speaker 4: of paranoia continues very strongly to this day. Trump was 462 00:25:59,950 --> 00:26:01,730 Speaker 4: just asked in an interview if he was worried about 463 00:26:02,369 --> 00:26:06,450 Speaker 4: China spying on us and China supplying information to Iran 464 00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:09,310 Speaker 4: about locations and things like that or satellite imagery. And 465 00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:11,860 Speaker 4: Trump said, you know, I don't really care because we're 466 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 4: spying on them, too. You know, and it's just that 467 00:26:14,020 --> 00:26:16,780 Speaker 4: attitude has just been, you know, going strong since the 468 00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:17,220 Speaker 4: Cold War. 469 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,470 Speaker 1: I mean, also, at least we've got it more out 470 00:26:21,530 --> 00:26:22,090 Speaker 1: in the open. 471 00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:22,790 Speaker 2: That's true. Right. 472 00:26:23,210 --> 00:26:26,139 Speaker 1: Yeah. At least we have a president who said, yeah, 473 00:26:26,180 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: we're doing it, too. 474 00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:30,659 Speaker 4: But yeah, there's not much I can give props to 475 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 4: Trump for. But I actually thought that was a rare 476 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,860 Speaker 4: moment of something resembling interesting diplomacy. 477 00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 478 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 479 00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: Broken clocks. 480 00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:39,340 Speaker 2: Right. 481 00:26:39,460 --> 00:26:42,850 Speaker 1: Check them twice a day. But the thing is, for 482 00:26:42,890 --> 00:26:46,290 Speaker 1: the backpack nukes, the public on both sides of the 483 00:26:46,330 --> 00:26:49,230 Speaker 1: Cold War, they had no idea about this stuff. So 484 00:26:49,270 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: much so. that we don't know exactly how miniature they 485 00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:58,700 Speaker 1: were able to miniaturize things. We don't know what they 486 00:26:58,820 --> 00:27:03,870 Speaker 1: actually got up to. Is there something that's the size 487 00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:09,350 Speaker 1: of a 12-ounce can of Coca-Cola? Probably not, hopefully. 488 00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:10,230 Speaker 2: Probably not. 489 00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:13,670 Speaker 4: I think there probably are physical limitations, the space that's 490 00:27:13,710 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 4: required to carry out a reaction of this magnitude, right? 491 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 492 00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: But we do know there were troubling claims, like the 493 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,780 Speaker 1: Soviet Union fell. In the aftermath, some of the world's 494 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,260 Speaker 1: smartest experts are still asking what happened to all the 495 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: nukes that the USSR used to possess. There was an 496 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,190 Speaker 1: interview we saw back in 1997 from a former Soviet 497 00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:40,629 Speaker 1: general named Alexander I. 498 00:27:40,890 --> 00:27:41,390 Speaker 2: Lebed. 499 00:27:42,010 --> 00:27:44,649 Speaker 1: He was talking to 60 Minutes, you remember this, and 500 00:27:44,730 --> 00:27:51,310 Speaker 1: he said, The Soviet Union created around 250 suitcase-sized portable 501 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:57,010 Speaker 1: nuclear weapons. And he said of those 250, about 100 502 00:27:57,010 --> 00:28:00,389 Speaker 1: of those bad boys are missing. We don't know where 503 00:28:00,410 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: they're at. Just like the airport says, don't touch unfamiliar baggage. 504 00:28:05,340 --> 00:28:06,660 Speaker 2: That's a broken arrow, right? 505 00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:08,410 Speaker 1: That is a broken arrow. 506 00:28:08,430 --> 00:28:09,350 Speaker 2: Who else is going to bring you? 507 00:28:09,490 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just, if everyone's not familiar, that is 508 00:28:11,740 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 4: what the term for a missing nuke is, I believe. 509 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:15,380 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. 510 00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:18,290 Speaker 3: Check out our two-part series on lost broken arrows. 511 00:28:18,330 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: Yep. Yes, please do. 512 00:28:20,140 --> 00:28:25,750 Speaker 4: Also, check out the pretty terrible 90s espionage film Broken 513 00:28:25,869 --> 00:28:30,210 Speaker 4: Arrow starring John Travolta. You didn't like it? The Travolta Zons. 514 00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:32,810 Speaker 4: I have not seen it since it was in the theaters, Ben. 515 00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:35,310 Speaker 4: I just have a feeling it's not going to hold up. 516 00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:36,190 Speaker 2: But you know what, Ben? 517 00:28:36,670 --> 00:28:38,500 Speaker 4: I am still kind of on the mend. So after 518 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 4: we podcast, I think I'm going to have a little 519 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 4: chill movie night. I think I'm going to watch Broken 520 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,380 Speaker 4: Arrow and I'll report back. 521 00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:46,850 Speaker 1: I'd love for you to report back. Also... Just to 522 00:28:47,050 --> 00:28:51,300 Speaker 1: manage expectations here, Noel, the reason that I enjoy Broken 523 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: Arrow is because I'm a fan of clowns. I support 524 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,300 Speaker 1: the clown, you know, demographic. 525 00:28:57,380 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: Got it. Remember the General's Daughter? 526 00:28:59,460 --> 00:29:01,979 Speaker 4: That was another one from that era, I believe, also 527 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:02,820 Speaker 4: starring Travolta. 528 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,580 Speaker 1: And we have Max popping in. Max, what's on your mind? 529 00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 3: Just want to drop a reminder that there is a 530 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,850 Speaker 3: Broken Arrow off the coast of Savannah, Georgia. 531 00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:13,690 Speaker 1: Savannah, Georgia. 532 00:29:13,790 --> 00:29:15,870 Speaker 3: Not too far from us. So if that thing goes off- 533 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,140 Speaker 3: it's been a pleasure knowing. 534 00:29:17,860 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 4: You guys really has man really has good times yeah 535 00:29:20,260 --> 00:29:26,100 Speaker 4: it's been pretty great three out of five wow that's. 536 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: Soft ben that's a soft review oh. 537 00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:30,990 Speaker 5: Of course you guys are six out of five numbers 538 00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:34,650 Speaker 5: should even exist but the thing is with this idea 539 00:29:34,690 --> 00:29:38,570 Speaker 5: of these broken arrows it could be hogwash right it. 540 00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:42,100 Speaker 1: Could be the general is spitting propaganda for some reason 541 00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: or maybe he wasn't read on to the top secret 542 00:29:46,220 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: locations of these things but just a few years after 543 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:56,530 Speaker 1: that in 1999 the U.S. military research deep breath subcommittee 544 00:29:56,570 --> 00:30:00,550 Speaker 1: of the house armed services committee investigated the idea that 545 00:30:00,590 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: the Soviets at some point hid suitcase-sized nuclear weapons throughout 546 00:30:06,580 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: the United States. We haven't found any yet, none that 547 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,900 Speaker 1: have been publicly confirmed. But, you know, our takeaway here 548 00:30:13,940 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: has to be don't pick up random suitcases. Just don't 549 00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:17,700 Speaker 1: do it. 550 00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:20,170 Speaker 2: If you see something, say something. 551 00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:22,030 Speaker 1: There you go. 552 00:30:22,330 --> 00:30:23,850 Speaker 2: Never leave your luggage unattended. 553 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,590 Speaker 1: And there we have it, folks. A moral, a bit 554 00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:31,910 Speaker 1: of ridiculous Cold War history and a big tip of 555 00:30:31,950 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: the cap to you for tuning in. Big, big thanks 556 00:30:34,860 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Big thanks, of course. 557 00:30:39,460 --> 00:30:42,590 Speaker 1: To Noel Brown for recovery. 558 00:30:43,030 --> 00:30:47,110 Speaker 2: I'm getting there, man. Dude, kick-ass work on this research brief. 559 00:30:47,770 --> 00:30:52,690 Speaker 4: Ben, my friend and co-host and fellow Ridiculous Historian OG. 560 00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:56,900 Speaker 2: And a huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland. The Quister, AJ Bahamas, Jacobs, 561 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:57,500 Speaker 2: The Puzzler. 562 00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:00,460 Speaker 1: And a big, big thanks as well as a tease 563 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,500 Speaker 1: to our fellow rude dudes at Ridiculous Crime. If you 564 00:31:03,540 --> 00:31:05,870 Speaker 1: dig us, you'll love them. 565 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 2: Don't believe us? 566 00:31:07,150 --> 00:31:09,860 Speaker 1: Check out next week's. Yeah. Stories, right? 567 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be a fun one. We'll tag 568 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 2: team back again. We'll see you next time, folks. 569 00:31:21,570 --> 00:31:25,370 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 570 00:31:25,410 --> 00:31:27,490 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.