1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: So let's say you want to call the CIA, the 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Central Intelligence Agency. How would you do it? Back in 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, it was easy. 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: It was a whole number on the website. 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: You just typed CIA dot gov. Back then, the agency 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: had a number listed. That's no longer the case today. 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: You have to fill out an online form. But in 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: April twenty twelve, Flavio Georgescu finds the number and he 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: calls it. Ah, this is a recording of that actual call. 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 3: Good afternoon, how can I help you? 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 2: Hi? Flavio? And I was born in Romania, but right 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: now I'm I'm a USPP. 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: Then, just a few minutes earlier, Flavio's friend Andy called him, 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: asking him if he could arrange a weapons deal for 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: some Colombians. There'd be a lot of money in it 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: for both of them. 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 4: Andy tells Flavio, and right now, I'm in Romania and 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 4: I have an information for you, and I want to 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 4: be in touch with one of your agency over here 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 4: in Romania order. 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: I know you have an office in Austria. Okay, right 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: over there. 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: What's your social Security number? 24 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: Flavio, a naturalized US citizen, says the matter at hand 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: is urgent, he needs to speak in person with a 26 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: CIA official in Europe. The agent on the phone sounds skeptical. 27 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: I need to talk with someone personally over. 28 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: Here or in Okay, then you need to go to 29 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 3: Then you need to go to the embassy then, because 30 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 3: if you don't want to tell me over the phone, 31 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 3: I'm not going to send somebody out to meet you, Okay. 32 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: If you only need if you need to talk in 33 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 3: person only, then you need to go to the embassy. 34 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: No, I'm not going there because you know I was 35 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: born here and I know I'm not trusting people over 36 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: killing in Romania. That's what I try to keep personally. 37 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: It is something about what Flavia is saying here is 38 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: that he doesn't want to just walk into the US 39 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: embassy in Romania to make a report. You have to 40 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: remember the secret police that dominated Romania during Flavia's childhood. 41 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: They still have him a little paranoid. He doesn't want 42 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: to risk being seen. 43 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: Okay, So one. 44 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 3: Quality you can tell me over the phone. You can 45 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 3: write an email on the public website. If you go 46 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: to CIA dot DOV and go to contact us, you 47 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 3: can write it all out, or you can go to 48 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 3: the embassy. Those are your three options, because I'm not 49 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: sending anybody out to meet you. 50 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: Now, think of this interaction from the agent's point of view. 51 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: Some random guy in Romania calling in to say, Hey, 52 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: I got a hot tip. Can you send out an agent? 53 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: Okay, let me talk with you. 54 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: So Flavio starts to talk. He explains that one of 55 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: his contacts has a client from Colombia who's asking if 56 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,399 Speaker 1: Flavio can help him find weapons. 57 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: Okay, and how do you know this person? Why would 58 00:02:58,560 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: they go? Now? 59 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: They are not really big. They they're looking. They want 60 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: to poin me for it because I'm really really connected. 61 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 3: All right, How are you really really connected? 62 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 2: Because everyone knows me. 63 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 3: You know, I go because everyone knows you to get 64 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 3: them weapons. You just told me they contacted you to 65 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: get grenades and stuff. So what kind of connections do 66 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 3: you have? Because of its criminal connections? Then the CIA 67 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: doesn't want to have anything to do with it. 68 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: He's not any criminal connections. 69 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: This CIA agent is very skeptical. But and this is important, 70 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: here's Flavio in this very first call, telling the CIA 71 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: everything about the very crime the Justice Department will later 72 00:03:49,480 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: accuse him of committee. I'm Trevor Aronson from West and 73 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: Sound and iHeart Podcasts. This is Alphabet Boys, Episode two 74 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: the Calls. In the early two thousands, after establishing a 75 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: reputation as an all around fixer for wealthy Eastern Europeans 76 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: visiting Las Vegas, Flavio branched out. He started dividing his 77 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: time between the United States and Romania, and he started 78 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: some businesses. Among Flavio's early ventures was one in Bucharest 79 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: that provided it infrastructure for Romanians operating channels on I Friends, 80 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: one of the Internet's earliest video chat services. 81 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 5: Up company I Friends was having a lot of a 82 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 5: lot of employees in Europe. There will set up some locations, 83 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 5: for example in Romania, there was ning up place and 84 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 5: the people was coming to work over there, and I 85 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 5: was doing the fiber optic, the computers, the webcam and everything. 86 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: I Friends has now shut down, but you can still 87 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: view the website on the Internet Archive. It warn't users 88 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: that it's community contained what I Friends termed red light zones. 89 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 5: There was having sections by different categories like adults, socializing 90 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 5: of friends, all kinds of things. 91 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: I Friends wasn't exclusively adult oriented, but it provided one 92 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: of the earliest platforms for so called camgirls, think only 93 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: fans or chatterbait, both small, grainy, stuttering videos. I Friends 94 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: helped pioneer the adult oriented internet we know today. In 95 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, a couple living in Florida became the 96 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: first to be prosecuted for obscenity for sexual acts performed 97 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: at home. They were charged with promoting obscene material for 98 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: live streaming themselves having sex on I Friends. At the time, 99 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: I Friends had one and a half million customers and 100 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: ten thousand cam operators. The Florida couple earned three dollars 101 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: per minute for their cam work. Three dollars a minute 102 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: was a lot of money, then one hundred and eighty 103 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: dollars an hour, and in Eastern Europe that was a 104 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: ton of money, attracting people in Bucharest to start cam 105 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: channels on I Friends. Flavio assisted with the infrastructure, but 106 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: he wasn't responsible for the content. 107 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 5: It's true I was providing the fiber optic I was 108 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 5: providing hardware like computers with comes a die key part. 109 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: But Flavio says he discouraged adult oriented operators as much 110 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: as he could. He didn't like the idea that a 111 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: major global export of his native Romania was naked ladies. 112 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: There's a reason I mentioned Flavio's pearl clutching at pornography. 113 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: Flavio's actions often seem to be rooted in a strong 114 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: sense of morality, and if you're inclined to believe Flavio's story, 115 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: his moral compass is ultimately what gets him on a 116 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: lot of trouble. By twenty twelve, Flavio had become a 117 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: world traveling businessman, leveraging his relationships in both the United 118 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: States and Europe. For example, one of Flavio's companies purchased 119 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: US made ankle monitoring devices, the kind criminals wear during probation, 120 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: and resold them to law enforcement agencies in Romania. Another 121 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: of Flavio's ventures partnered with a company in Utah that 122 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: sold emergency food packages, the kind you keep for years 123 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: on a shelf and mixed with water when you know 124 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: the end of the world happens. Flavia was out there hustling, 125 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: constantly doing stuff. Some months he'd be in Las Vegas, 126 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: other months London or Bucharest. So this is Flavia's life. 127 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: When his old friend from Los Angeles, any Georgescu, calls 128 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: him and says he knows a Colombian who's looking to 129 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: buy some serious weapons. 130 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 5: He calls me and he said, I'm I have a 131 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 5: Columbian partner or I need some guns to fight with 132 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 5: the American government in Colombia. I said, you know, I 133 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 5: mean I don't do any guns. I don't have no connections. 134 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 5: I'm to keep insisting, saying in the conversation, I mat 135 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 5: me give you all his bone. He said, at least pretend, 136 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 5: just pretend you're gonna sell him the guns, because I 137 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 5: have some deals with him. 138 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: Flavio tells Andy that he'll look into it, and he 139 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: tells Andy maybe he could make something happen. He says 140 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: he could probably find the right people. 141 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 5: I hang up the phone. Five ten minutes later, I 142 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 5: call CIA. 143 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 6: I let them know, Ah, good afternoon. 144 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 3: How can I help you. 145 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 7: More? 146 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: After the break, Flavio's called the CIA asking to meet 147 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: with an agent. 148 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 5: The first lady she didn't want to talk with me. 149 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 5: She was keep sending me to the US embassy. 150 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,119 Speaker 1: And the CIA agent is very skeptical. 151 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 3: If you don't want to tell me over the phone, 152 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 3: I'm not going to send somebody out to meet you, Okay, 153 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 3: if you only need if you need to talk in 154 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 3: person only. Then you need to go to the embassy. 155 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 5: People knows me in the embassy, I have I used 156 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 5: to have friends over there working over there. I'm don 157 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 5: Alue Delusion talking about some nonsense things, and I said, no, 158 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 5: send me to Vienna. You have a center to collect 159 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 5: intelligence in Vienna. Send you over there in Austria, and 160 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 5: I'm going to talk over there with somebody and we 161 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 5: see what's going on from there, and we're going to 162 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 5: do a strategy. 163 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: The CIA agent Flavio is talking to you. She doesn't 164 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: appear to think Flavio is for real. 165 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: Okay, So you do personal security all over the world. 166 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 3: You're connected to all these different people, and you had 167 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: somebody call you and say, can you get grenades and 168 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 3: guns for this guy in Columbia. 169 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: Not specified grades. A lot of ammunitions, ammunition AK forty seven, 170 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: A lot of them. 171 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: Okay. So what I'm telling you, as a US set 172 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 3: ofcent go to the US, the American Embassy, and tell 173 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 3: them you need to speak with someone. 174 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 8: Okay, yeah, this is the easy way for you, but 175 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 8: you know a lot of Okay, well, no, it's not 176 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 8: the easy way for me. You're being very difficult. You 177 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 8: run a business, but you don't have a name for 178 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 8: your business. It's just you're telling me that you're very, 179 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 8: very connected, but people are calling you to get ammunition 180 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 8: and AK forty sevens. So it really doesn't sound like 181 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 8: anything that we can discuss. 182 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 3: Over the phone. So I'm telling you, for your safety, 183 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 3: you need to go to the US embassy. Okay, well 184 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 3: we can't help you. Thank you, goodbye, And she ain't 185 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: got the phone. 186 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 5: And after that I got a call back saying that person, 187 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 5: the second one, oh, my name is such an inside 188 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 5: of one, and we start to talk. 189 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: In other words, Despite all the skepticism and well attitude 190 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: of that CIA agent, Flavio's tip got escalated to another 191 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: CIA agent. 192 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 6: Okay, well, as I understand it, I don't. I don't 193 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 6: think there was anything that the agency could do to 194 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 6: assister facilitate what you're trying to accomplish. 195 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: This is that second agent. 196 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 6: We didn't have anyone that can commute with you. And 197 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 6: I was just like, see determination. 198 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was always just try to be useful to 199 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: the US government because I love that country and you know, 200 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: I'm so proud to be a Yes Cities and that orders. 201 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 2: You know, if it is not anything interesting for you. 202 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: I don't care because I'm not doing any deal. I'm 203 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: not going to to help these people. But I was 204 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 2: thinking you have any interesting in this situation because it's 205 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 2: easy to follow up these people, you know, which maybe 206 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 2: through case for you or you know, you have to 207 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: know everything which has happened. 208 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: Flavio is again saying directly to the CIA, Hey, American 209 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency, these guys seem like illegal arms traffickers. You 210 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: want to maybe do something about it. If so, great, 211 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: but if not, no worries. If you don't want this 212 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: CIA all good, I'll drop it. 213 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 3: Well. 214 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 6: I mean, if you were forcefright with all the details, 215 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 6: then we could verify your story. That's something we might 216 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 6: look into and pass to the right authorities. 217 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: This is the moment when this whole story could have stopped. 218 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: But suddenly, with Flavio acting all cooi, the agent now 219 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: seems a little more interested and he starts asking Flavio questions. 220 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 6: You said you have a company, a personal security No. 221 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: No, I work for some prime with people like I'm 222 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: of security advisor. 223 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: I throw up the theme for you on Flavio is 224 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: basically saying he's a fixer, a guy who has relationships 225 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: and can make things happen, expensive things harder, ring services. 226 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: He's vague, but then again, fixers are supposed to be discreet. 227 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: A guy from Los Angeles, he said, you know, I 228 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: have some clients. They want to do it. The first 229 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: deal for ten million dollars, which is not that big, 230 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: but they want to see everything goes smoothly and everything 231 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: is perfect. And I says, okay, what they needed. And 232 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: they send it two different lists with the merchandises they need. 233 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 2: And they said, I asked for the first time, I 234 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: ask for the end user certificate. You know what the 235 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: end user certificate? It is. 236 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 6: No, I'm not famliy wather. 237 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: Oh and here's a certificate. It is a paper which 238 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: has to prove to the factor which is the end 239 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: user for this kind of ammunition, for this kind of guns, 240 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: for everything. You know. 241 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: Flavio mentioned something there called an end user certificate. This 242 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: is something that people who have experienced doing weapons deals 243 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: know all about. Legitimate international weapons deals require an official 244 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: piece of paper certifying the final destination for the weapons. 245 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: In other words, the end user certificate certifies that a 246 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: the buyer is a legitimate weapons purchaser. B the buyer 247 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: is going to be the one actually using the weapons, 248 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: and c the buyer doesn't intend to transfer these weapons 249 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: to someone else. A weapons deal without an end user certificate, 250 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: that's a red flag, a tell tale sign of arms trafficking. 251 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 2: And when I must for that, when I ask for 252 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: this paper, they says, no, we don't have one, and 253 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: maybe if we increase the price, can use a middle 254 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: man in the STANSA. Can I say, you know, our 255 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: conversation has to end right now because I'm not getting 256 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 2: involved in anything like that. And they says, you know, 257 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: maybe you think about blah blah blah, good money. 258 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: You know, Flavio is saying that Andy told him that 259 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: the Colombian buyer doesn't have an end user certificate. But 260 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: if Flavio can arrange for an end user certificate, there'd 261 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: be some big money in that. 262 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: Believe me or not, you don't know me. But when 263 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: I have the chance to help US government and help 264 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: that country, I consider my country too. I help them. 265 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: Every time on FBA needs me for Russians Romanians, which 266 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: they do a lot of it things in the United States, 267 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: I help them. And with my help, a lot of 268 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: government confiscate a lot of cash, a lot of houses, 269 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: a lot of cash, you know, I bring someoney to 270 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: their Uncle Sam. All the time. 271 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: Flavio speaks fast with a thick Romanian accent, and it's 272 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: unclear how closely the CIA agent on the phone is 273 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: paying attention. For all I know, he could be doodling 274 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: in a notepad while Flavio is spilling his guts. It 275 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: might have been easy for him to miss what Flavio 276 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: just said. Maybe you even missed it. Flavio said, every 277 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: time when the FBI needs me for Russians Romanians, I 278 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: help them, and with my help, the government has confiscated 279 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: a lot of cash, a lot of houses, a lot 280 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: of cars. I bring money to Uncle Sam. All the time, 281 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: Flavio is telling the CIA that he's not just some 282 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: random crank calling in claiming to have information about arms traffickers. 283 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: Flavio is telling him that he's worked with the government before, 284 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: specifically with the FBI. He's saying, you can trust me. 285 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: I've done this sort of thing, and I'm really good 286 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: at it. 287 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: Because I'm not sure. With all my respect for you, 288 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 2: uh and for your time with you, stay with me 289 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: on the phone. I'm not that kind of person to 290 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 2: come to the United States and take the cash to 291 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 2: bring it outside. I'm the kind I'm the kind of 292 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: guy to bring the cash to the United States, you know, 293 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: I you know, I considered da country in mine. You know, 294 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: I live over there, and I'm so happy. 295 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: But the CIA guy, he's not exactly sold. 296 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 6: And we you have to understand from our respects that 297 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 6: we have to be able to that and confirm the 298 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 6: things that you're you're telling us because a lot of 299 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 6: people call I know what with all this information and context, 300 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 6: So when we ask these questions, that's we're simply I know. 301 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 2: I know that. I know that because it was the 302 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: same dreer with the FBI. Okay, you know that means 303 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: I know the procedures, I know the The only thing 304 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 2: which I was involved all the times, my my begging 305 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: it is my quis series who don't be HII. 306 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: So this whole thing is getting more complicated. 307 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 5: Again. 308 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: Flavio is claiming to the CIA agent that he's worked 309 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: as a trusted source for the FBI. He says he's 310 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: willing to provide information everything he knows, but he's also 311 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: saying right here in this introductory conversation that he doesn't 312 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: want to be called as a witness in court and 313 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: the CIA guy he sounds tired. He appears to be 314 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: just going through the motions. 315 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 6: Or I can take this further. Let me get your 316 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 6: your spelling of your first name, because I was told 317 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 6: is it Slavio. 318 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: Flavio spells his first name, which has an unusual spelling. 319 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: A Z I. 320 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 6: You are you as in uniform? 321 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: He is in uniform? 322 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: Sorry it is Finally the CIA guy appears ready to engage. 323 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: Let's talk about this armstel that's after the break. 324 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 6: Okay, do you have specific contact information on these people 325 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 6: that are you know, attempting to buy the ammunitions. 326 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: The CIA agent on the phone with Flavio has finally 327 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: come around. He wants to know specifics about this supposed 328 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: weapons steal. 329 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: Okay, the thing it is like that the guy, the 330 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: guy in Los Angeles is Romanian. He owns the big 331 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: shipping company. You know, these kind of people they don't 332 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 2: accept in this kind of deals middlemen. When they heard 333 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 2: about middle men, they get in crazy. They're around so 334 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 2: so fat, you know they are not They don't like 335 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 2: it the middleman, because you know, middle man can be 336 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: your agency. Middle nan can be anyone. The only thing 337 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: which my the guy in La approached them, was like, 338 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 2: do the logistics, you know, do the transaction, do the 339 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: shipping stuff like that. This is the only way to 340 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 2: approach this kind of guys. And they said for the 341 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: first time, for the first time, they want to do 342 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 2: a deal for ten million dollars. It's not that much, 343 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 2: but they want to see if it's the bill goes 344 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 2: so smoothly, and if it goes so smoothly, it's doing 345 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 2: more and more and more. When the s from like exchange, yeah, 346 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: they said, you know they yeah, let me see I. 347 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 7: Adad him on my phone for a second. 348 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 2: Please, I let you. 349 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 7: Know why you war. 350 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: Earlier that day, Andy had emailed Flavio a list of 351 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: weapons that won the Colombian wants to purchase. Flavio reads 352 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: it to the CIA agent. 353 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 7: Okay, the first one it is a K forty seven 354 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 7: seven point six two millimeasures and five point forty five 355 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 7: million measures lp G seven. 356 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 2: Uh. 357 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 7: Second one it's M for carabine. Okay. The man that 358 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 7: one okay's on the email. On the paper, there's anti 359 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 7: personal mind. 360 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 2: Whatever you have in stuck. Uh. The world to start 361 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: will be one thousand, one thousand. 362 00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 7: Pieces of each item. Please advise the price and availability. 363 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 6: One thousand pieces of AARs. So you're looking for a 364 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 6: thousand A k's a thousand and four A thousand anti 365 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 6: personnel minds, is what you understood. 366 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? And also this is the first SLEEP and I 367 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: have another one with similar products. 368 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 6: Okay, so what is your role specifically telling me? 369 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 2: They were telling me something like that, which I know 370 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 2: from the guy from Los Angeles, which is the you know, 371 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: the logistic company. They offered the money in cash or 372 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: you know, in powders, in drugs, whatever is more convenient whatever. 373 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: Flavia's accent makes it easy to miss, but he says 374 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: powder as in cocaine. Flavia was telling the CIA that 375 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: the Colombians have offered to buy weapons with either cash 376 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: or cocaine or both. 377 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy from Miami, they are call Indian citizens 378 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: and they have they have the guerilla and stuff like 379 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: that over there. 380 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 6: Okay, so they're trying to purchase weapons. I mean, where 381 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 6: is the end location for the weapons. 382 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 2: Backs? And what is the end uh the end user? 383 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 2: And they said it's it's Columbia. But they asked me 384 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: if I can provide the middle country in this transaction, 385 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 2: you know, like let's let's we do the shipping in Africa, 386 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: in you know, in Jeya and from there to Columbia. 387 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: You know, Flavio again tells the agent that he asked 388 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: about the end user certificate and the response was basically, 389 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: we don't have one, so we can pay you more. 390 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: Wink wink. This is illegal, And I. 391 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: Said, you know, let me think about. It's not a 392 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: deal which I dream every day. You know, I tried 393 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 2: to buy the time, you know, I. 394 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: Tried to buy time, Flavia says, appearing to suggest that 395 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: he's stalling so he can have this conversation with the 396 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: CIA before proceeding with anything else. 397 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: If you want to find more, you have to allow 398 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: me to continue the deal and the thing it is 399 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 2: which I would try to provide this information to you. 400 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: You know, you have a lot of headache in Columbia 401 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: all the time, and a lot of agents were killed 402 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: over there, and you know I'm not happy with that. 403 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: Flavio tels the agent, these weapons will ultimately go to Colombia, 404 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: a place where American service members can get killed. 405 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 2: That's why why I would, you know, try to provide 406 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 2: this information to you, because I know it's not it's 407 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 2: not any any problem for United States because it's not 408 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 2: these guns. They don't go in Unite the State. They 409 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 2: go to Columbia. 410 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 7: But it is now you know you want need. 411 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: The Toba fund. 412 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 6: I understand what you're go ahead, passenger us and I 413 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 6: do appreciate why you're telling us. It's definitely something that 414 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 6: if we can verify, would be of interest to the 415 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 6: agency to be aware of. You know again particulars guns 416 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 6: are going to. 417 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 9: Yeah, because you know when you go to interest something, Yeah, 418 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 9: when you go to in this again, something in Colombia. Anything, 419 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 9: you know, it's something someone's traveler twa rock to you. 420 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 9: It's one thing when someone comes with take me forty seven, 421 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 9: you are not really happy. 422 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 2: You know, you have family, you have stamilies all over 423 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 2: every age agent has family in United States. Keeps stuff 424 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: like that. We have to go take each other, which 425 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 2: is the way we have to work together. 426 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: Flavio is appealing to the agent's patriotism. I'm an American too. 427 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: I'm trying to protect American. 428 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: Lives because the thing is deprecating each other about us. 429 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: We are okay if we are not thinking like that. 430 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 2: You know, if you say, oh, why by myself selfish 431 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 2: I don't care what's happened, but in your back, that's 432 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: why we have had of all the time. 433 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 6: No, I certain understand that. How how when I get 434 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 6: back in touch with you with any questions? 435 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: Flavio gives him his phone number. 436 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 6: I want to send this information to an internal desk 437 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 6: here for inside purposes only, so they can look at 438 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 6: it for interest and begin to investigate. 439 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: The CIA guy assures Flavia that the agency will look 440 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: into his information, but Flavio wants more than that. Let 441 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: me work for you, Flavio tells the CIA agent, we 442 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: have to. 443 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: Find out the way we does go from here today. 444 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: You know this is my idea, but we have to 445 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: go forward for forward, to see everything how they work, 446 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 2: because if they do this deal, for sure, he is 447 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: not the first one one percent, I guarantee you. 448 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: Flavio then assures the agent that he's not looking for anything. 449 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: He doesn't need money, He's done in trouble. He just 450 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: wants to help. He says, he wants to be a 451 00:27:58,880 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: good American. 452 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 2: I'm not coming with you like a lot of people 453 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 2: comes to you, and maybe this is you know, I 454 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 2: give you something and I need some feedback, you know, 455 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 2: because you get this kind of deals every day, for sure. 456 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: The agent tells Flavia again that the CIA will look 457 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: into what he's reporting. 458 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 6: Before I can move forward with this, And again, I 459 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 6: appreciate you bringing this information to our attention, and I'll 460 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 6: certainly tread carefully as we say, as far as how 461 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 6: we rediscuss this issuear here at the agency. 462 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: The agent takes down all of Flavia's contact information and 463 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: suggests the CIA might be in touch with them soon. 464 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 6: Well, sir, I have enough information. I get started on it. 465 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 6: Thank you again. I will pass it on and hopefully 466 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 6: they'll be in touch with you. 467 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: Nope, okay, okay, call God live you and hopefully we'll 468 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: start from here. 469 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 6: Yes. Likewise, best of luck to. 470 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 3: You right. 471 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: Now. 472 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: If you were on the phone here, what would you think? 473 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: What would you do? According to Flavio, this rambling call 474 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: was an agreement. Flavio says it was an oral contract. 475 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: He told the CIA about the deal. The CIA said, 476 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: thank you, we'll look into it. Flavio says he thinks 477 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: at this point he's working for the CIA to collect 478 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: information about how weapons are being shipped to Colombian rebels. 479 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 5: I was so excited, that's it. I'm going to right now, 480 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 5: I'm going to prove myself why I am. I'm going 481 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 5: to take you to a different level. A FBI was nothing. 482 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: FBI was nothing, Flavio says. What he means is that 483 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: the case he was planning to build for the CIA, 484 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: it would make whatever he was doing before with the 485 00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: FBI look like child's play. Here's what I don't know. 486 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if the CIA ever actually looked into Flavio. 487 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: Flavio told the agents on the phone that he had 488 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: worked for the FBI, But did CIA agents contact their 489 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: counterparts at the FBI. I don't know. I also don't 490 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: know if the CIA ever looked into any of the 491 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: information Flavio told them, Did that agent even pass it 492 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: up the chain? Did anyone do any sort of investigation? 493 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,959 Speaker 1: I don't know. But what I do know is that 494 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: Flavio never got another call from the CIA. There was 495 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: no callback, no follow up, no indication that the agency 496 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 1: ever wanted anything to do with him or his illegal 497 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: arms deal. What Flavio's told me was that he modeled 498 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: his arrangement with the CIA on what he did for 499 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: the FBI, and Flavio was a registered FBI informant even 500 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: though Flavio hated the term informant as a result of 501 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: growing up in the Romanian police state, he still chafes 502 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: at being referred to as an informant. 503 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 10: He's a little bit of a strange guy. 504 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: Flavio had asked FBI agents to refer to him as 505 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: a friend, not an informant, and I found Flavio's friend 506 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: the FBI handler. 507 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 10: Flavio was not involved in criminal activity at all. In 508 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 10: what he would do is he would just talk to 509 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 10: people in the Romaining community and hear their concerns and 510 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 10: provide that information. The main reason he did that is 511 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 10: because he knew that if anyone else provided that information, 512 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 10: they would be in danger. And that's unusual. You usually 513 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 10: don't run across people like that. 514 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: That's in the next episode. This is up in Arms, 515 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: season two of Alphabet Boys. Alphabet Boys is a production 516 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. The show is reported, 517 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: written and hosted by me Trevor Aaronson. For more information 518 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: about this series or to drop us a tip, head 519 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz. You can contact 520 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: me on Twitter or Instagram at Trevor Aaronson. The show's 521 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: Instagram is Alphabet Boys dot pod. If you're enjoying Alphabet Boys, 522 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: tell your friends about the show. Personal recommendations are the 523 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: best recommendations. And if you want to see an illegal 524 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: armsteel from the inside again, it's Alphabet Boys dot xyz. 525 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: You'll find undercover recordings and documents related to flavious case. Finally, 526 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: you can help us ride the algorithms by leaving a 527 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: rating or review on your favorite podcast app that helps 528 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: other people find us. And thanks for listening.