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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Ben's here again too. It's pretty much the

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Speaker 2: new status quo, which I have to say I like

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Speaker 2: a lot, and that makes the stuff you should Know.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I was about to say Jerry might get her

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Speaker 1: feelings hurt, but you know she won't even hear that.

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Speaker 2: No, not a chance.

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Speaker 1: If she's not, you know, overseeing that episode. It's not

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Speaker 1: like she goes, oh, I should listen in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to keep up with these guys. They're

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Speaker 2: so hilarious. That's not a Jerry thing to think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, especially when it's more alien stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've done a lot of alien stuff and by god,

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Speaker 2: every second of it's been amazing. And I don't think

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Speaker 2: this is going to be any different.

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Speaker 1: No, it's been a while, though we haven't. I feel

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Speaker 1: like we kind of had a little grouping of those,

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Speaker 1: you know, ten years ago or something.

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Speaker 2: I think it was like last year, but we did.

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Speaker 1: Was it really?

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Speaker 2: No, it was probably like within the last two years.

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Speaker 2: We did that two parter on Project blue Book.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, I just remember years ago at Comic Con.

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Speaker 1: Did we do an alien thing there.

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Speaker 2: We did one on UFOs. Yeah, yeah, for sure, that's.

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Speaker 1: That's a brave thing for us to do at Comic

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Speaker 1: Con for sure.

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Speaker 2: A lot of experts there. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, today

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Speaker 2: we're talking about something that definitely has a lot to

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Speaker 2: do with aliens, a lot to do with UFOs, but

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Speaker 2: also really has a lot to do with social psychology,

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Speaker 2: in sociology and history as a strange moment in time

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Speaker 2: where there was a you can almost call it a trend,

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Speaker 2: And I want to say right from the outset, we

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Speaker 2: are in no way, shape or for mocking anyone who

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Speaker 2: believes that they were abducted. After researching this, I fully

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Speaker 2: understand that people who who believe they were abducted by

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Speaker 2: aliens are traumatized by that experienceience and show all the

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Speaker 2: symptoms of a traumatic experience, and then on top of

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Speaker 2: that had the indignity of not being believed by anybody

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Speaker 2: and probably talk down to fairly frequently. So we're going

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Speaker 2: to try not to talk down. So I'm not in

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Speaker 2: calling it a trend. I'm not trying to diminish the

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Speaker 2: experience of anybody who's ever who believes they were abducted,

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Speaker 2: and that it had an impact on their lives. But

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Speaker 2: there was a period in time from about the nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixties and seventies through to the nineties where there were

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Speaker 2: a lot of people running around claiming to have been abducted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. It's fascinating because it dawned to me

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Speaker 1: when I was researching this, like, I just I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard one of these in a long time.

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Speaker 2: No, And I looked up and saw a bunch of

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Speaker 2: different places that people attribute that to the advent of

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Speaker 2: ubiquitous camera phones.

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Speaker 1: Uh, that's inconvenient.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You can be like, nope, this is what

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Speaker 2: you saw. So it dried up at almost the exact

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Speaker 2: same time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, that makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 2: But before that there was like people have been seeing

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Speaker 2: weird stuff in the sky and being like UFO for

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Speaker 2: a while. But in our Project blue Book episode we

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Speaker 2: found like the moment it really kicked off, and that

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Speaker 2: was June twenty fourth, nineteen forty seven, and we talked

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Speaker 2: it up to a guy named Kenneth Arnold who was

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Speaker 2: a I think an amateur pilot or like a hobbyist

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Speaker 2: who saw what came to be considered the first flying saucer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And the alarming thing about this was he clocked

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Speaker 1: the speed at about sixteen hundred miles an hour, which

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Speaker 1: is at the time, you know, easily three times faster

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Speaker 1: than anything else could fly. And this is where the

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Speaker 1: term saucer came from. He said, they flew like a

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Speaker 1: saucer would if you skipped it across the water. And

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Speaker 1: so that's kind of where that term came from. And

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Speaker 1: this is you know, this is just after World War

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Speaker 1: Two and it's not like any no one had ever

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Speaker 1: claimed to have witnessed anything before this, but basically pre

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Speaker 1: this date it was one hundred percent well maybe not

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Speaker 1: hundred percent, who knows, but most people were saying like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's just you know, some enemy technology or something that

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Speaker 1: we don't know about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So Kenneth Arnold kicked off what you characterize as

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Speaker 2: like the modern UFO movement, I guess right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as in, there's an alien driving not a Russian.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, good point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And also the thing that really bolstered it within days

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Speaker 2: of that, within two weeks, the Roswell Crash happened, which

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Speaker 2: a lot of people say that's the advent of the

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Speaker 2: idea that aliens are actually visiting us and that the

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Speaker 2: government is covering it up right, So those two things.

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Speaker 2: It was a one two punch in nineteen forty seven,

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Speaker 2: in the summer of nineteen forty seven that really kind

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Speaker 2: of just debuted aliens to the world. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things is we'll see with abduction narratives or stories

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Speaker 2: or claims, they usually have a very dark, bad thread

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Speaker 2: to them. They're not a positive experience, and aliens have

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Speaker 2: kind of gotten in large part like that kind of

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Speaker 2: view by the public. If there are aliens out there,

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Speaker 2: it's not entirely clear that they are benevolent or kind.

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Speaker 2: But that's not how it was at the outset, was it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we can chalk that up to a dude named

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Speaker 1: George Adomski. I guess Adamski, Yeah, he was. He immigrated

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Speaker 1: from Poland and he founded a group called the Royal

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Speaker 1: Order of Tibet in southern California in the thirties. He

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Speaker 1: was a teacher of philosophy. He was, you know, he

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Speaker 1: was kind of out there a little bit, and in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two he claimed that he met an alien

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Speaker 1: named Orthan, which is I mean, it's got to be

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Speaker 1: the inspiration from orson from work from work.

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Speaker 2: Right, probably because these were really popular books at the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it just sounds like you're saying morek

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Speaker 1: calling Orthon with a lisp, yeah, or how I say

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Speaker 1: it now with my tooth.

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Speaker 2: It's like Tyson calling Orthan.

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Speaker 1: But his narrative was a bit different. He was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: this alien Orthan was a beautiful man. He had a

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Speaker 1: high forehead, he had hair which is, as you'll see,

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Speaker 1: pretty unusual from the grays that follow, and a uniform

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Speaker 1: on a brown uniform, and you know, was telepathic, could

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Speaker 1: like speak to him basically through his brain and brought

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Speaker 1: a message of peace, saying, hey, I'm from Venus and

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Speaker 1: you guys should stop with the nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 2: Right. So this was like how people kind of viewed

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Speaker 2: aliens visiting us at the time, Like this guy was

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Speaker 2: writing these books like they were nonfiction and people were

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Speaker 2: eating them up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So there was this idea that aliens are kind of cool,

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Speaker 2: they're more advanced than us, and they have our best

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Speaker 2: interests in mind. And then that took a serious, like

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Speaker 2: left turn just a few years later in the late fifties,

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Speaker 2: when a farmer in Brazil named Antonio vs. Boas claimed

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Speaker 2: that he had been taken aboard a spaceship and a

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Speaker 2: damski later claimed that he had been on a spaceship too,

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Speaker 2: But this was pretty new stuff that he had basically

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Speaker 2: been abducted and forced to have sex with what he

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Speaker 2: admitted was an attractive alien, but was a bit turned

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Speaker 2: off by the fact that she barked during sex and

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Speaker 2: then returned to his farm. And this was a this

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Speaker 2: is a brand new this is new ground essentially that

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Speaker 2: Boaz had started to trod.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I mean, this is I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: an earlier one that mentioned any kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: sexual assault going on, right, was this the first one

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Speaker 1: from what I could tell? Yes, all right, so he

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Speaker 1: was of course, went to a doctor, They examined him.

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Speaker 1: They said, he's probably making this whole thing up. But

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Speaker 1: there was a group a UFO, an early ufology group,

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Speaker 1: that published this experience anyway, and in nineteen sixty five

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Speaker 1: it ran in an international journal called Flying Salcer Review,

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Speaker 1: which I get to copy of one of those, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, people all over the

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Speaker 1: world are hearing this story and this sort of you

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Speaker 1: know was happening in you know, it was international, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't It didn't hit The American public quite liked

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Speaker 1: this story of Betty and Barney Hill, which really really

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Speaker 1: kicked things off here in the States.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because his thing came out in the Journal in

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five and the Hill the Hills had an

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Speaker 2: experience in nineteen sixty one. They are widely seen as

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Speaker 2: the first credible abductees. If you believe that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 2: you probably are focused on Betty and Barney Hill. They

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Speaker 2: were an interracial couple in nineteen sixty one in New Hampshire.

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Speaker 2: Betty was a social worker and Barney was a postal officer,

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Speaker 2: and they had taken a delayed honeymoon to Montreal and

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Speaker 2: were on their way back when they noticed that they

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Speaker 2: were basically being chased by a light in the sky.

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Speaker 2: And when they grabbed their binoculars and stopped and got

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Speaker 2: out of the car, they could actually see that it

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Speaker 2: was essentially a flying saucer and that aliens were looking

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Speaker 2: at them through the windows. And the next thing they know,

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Speaker 2: it's five am. They're pulling into their house about three

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Speaker 2: hours later than they had expected to, and Barney's shoes

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Speaker 2: were scuffed and Betty's dress was torn and they didn't

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Speaker 2: know what had happened, but they were genuinely bothered by

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Speaker 2: the experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, we'll dive in a little bit

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Speaker 1: more with them. But the reason that you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: they were an interracial couple is because they were doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of work for civil rights and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: So they all that to say, they had no reason to,

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Speaker 1: in fact, every reason not to kind of come forward

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Speaker 1: with this crazy story given their positions of doing like this,

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Speaker 1: you know, great civil rights work, because you know, it

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Speaker 1: would just all of a sudden people would call them

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Speaker 1: kooks and probably cast doubt on, you know, the genuine

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Speaker 1: good work they were doing. So they had no reason

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Speaker 1: to make something like this up.

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Speaker 2: And everything to lose too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everything to lose. So they're trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: and make sense of what had happened to them, because again,

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Speaker 1: as you'll see with all these stories, whether or not

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Speaker 1: this happened or not almost does it matter in some cases,

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Speaker 1: because the trauma that's visited upon them afterward is very

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Speaker 1: much real, just like any kind of potential false memory.

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Speaker 1: So Betty starts researching, goes to the library and starts

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Speaker 1: looking at books from the ni CAP which we've talked

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Speaker 1: about before. Yeah, NIGHTCAP the National Investing Aations Committee on

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Speaker 1: Aerial Phenomenon and that's you know, that was some retired

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Speaker 1: military officers and you know UFO enthusiasts who had gotten

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Speaker 1: together this you know, pretty early research group. And afterward

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Speaker 1: they were, you know, they were suffering from PTSD, especially

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Speaker 1: the husband he was he had pretty severe anxiety from this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah he did. Betty had trouble sleeping, Barney had a

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Speaker 2: bunch of anxiety. They just they were affected by this

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Speaker 2: experience and they had this missing time that they knew

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Speaker 2: they couldn't account for, and they wanted to know what happened.

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Speaker 2: So they were they were earnestly trying to look for

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Speaker 2: somebody to help explain what had happened to them and

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Speaker 2: why their lives were affected. First, they went to the

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Speaker 2: military and followed official channels because this is when Project

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Speaker 2: Blue Book was an actual thing, and like you were

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Speaker 2: encouraged to report any UFO citing to the military because

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Speaker 2: they were investigating it. And the military was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: this is not an important story, sorry, guys, we can't

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Speaker 2: help you. So they turned to their and apparently their

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Speaker 2: church was like this is way out of our league. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: maybe you saw God. And they're like, Noah, wasn't God.

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Speaker 2: They're like, yes, sorry, we can't help you either. So

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Speaker 2: they turned to psychiatry, and a psychiatrist named Benjamin Simon

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Speaker 2: agreed to help them. And this is a time where

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Speaker 2: you were there was a good chance you were going

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Speaker 2: to be hypnotized if you were on a psychiatrist's couch.

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Speaker 2: This is the early to mid nineteen sixties. And so

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Speaker 2: they were hypnotized over a series of sessions, and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, these these memories have been repressed, that

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Speaker 2: covered that chunk of time where that they couldn't account

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Speaker 2: for started to come forward.

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Speaker 1: That's right, which was abduction. Yeah, little great creatures. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is the sort of the beginning of the stereotypical

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Speaker 1: gray as we know them, gray, little skinny bodies, the

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Speaker 1: big heads, the big oval eyes. They brought them on

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Speaker 1: board the spaceship and did the you know, the usual

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff, which is, let me probe you, let

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Speaker 1: me sample you. Apparently they put a needle into Betty's stomach,

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Speaker 1: which is what they assumed was like a pregnancy test.

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Speaker 1: They were very entranced by Barney's dentures, and then they

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Speaker 1: wiped their memories out. I guess men in black style,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the lost time comes from. And these

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Speaker 1: were like, these were real deal, super emotional hypnosis sessions

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Speaker 1: with a very qualified psychiatrist. But even after all that,

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Speaker 1: the psychiatrists Sigmon was like, I don't know, I think

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Speaker 1: they have a shared delusion going on exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So he was like, you guys weren't abductive, but

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Speaker 2: you both believe you were abducted and it's having an

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Speaker 2: effect on you. He actually drilled down a little further

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Speaker 2: and suggested that it was actually latent racial tensions that

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Speaker 2: existed in their marriage that they were equipped to deal

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Speaker 2: with and were purposely kind of subverting into these weird

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Speaker 2: you know, alien face fans. But that really that's what

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Speaker 2: it was. And they were like, no, dude, you're wrong,

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Speaker 2: we were abducted. All of these memories are real. And

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Speaker 2: he's like, have you heard of false memories? And the

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Speaker 2: Hills were like, no, we haven't, and they just kept

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Speaker 2: moving on. So the psychiatry couldn't help them either. And

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Speaker 2: as they went further and further along trying to get answers,

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Speaker 2: they kind of were pushed further and further out of

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Speaker 2: the mainstream and toward the fringes, where they were welcomed

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Speaker 2: with open arms.

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Speaker 1: Oh, of course, the story got published. In nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 1: a guy named John Lutriel from The Boston Traveler reported

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Speaker 1: on this UPI picks it up, and then a guy

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Speaker 1: named John G. Fuller made it into a book in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six called The Interrupted Journey Colan Two Lost

267
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Speaker 1: Hours Aboard a Flying Saucer, which eventually became a TV

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Speaker 1: movie in nineteen seventy five called The UFO Incident, which

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Speaker 1: you can watch on YouTube if you want to see

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Speaker 1: a relatively young and you know, pretty in great shape

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Speaker 1: James Earl Jones movie. Did you watch it? I'd kind

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Speaker 1: of scrub through it looking for the good stuff.

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Speaker 2: I didn't watch it this time. I watched it when

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Speaker 2: I was younger, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it like most of the movie, like eighty five

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Speaker 1: percent of it, looks like it takes place in the

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Speaker 1: psychiatrist's office, for sure. And I didn't see just scrubbing

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Speaker 1: through any good alien stuff till kind of toward the end.

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Speaker 1: I guess they were just wanted to wait to for

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Speaker 1: the big reveal or whatever. But Stelle Parsons's plays the

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Speaker 1: Wife and Barnard Hughes from Doc Hollywood. He was the

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Speaker 1: old doctor in Doc Hollywood played Simon. And it was

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Speaker 1: a big deal movie. And it was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a t moo movie at a time when TV

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Speaker 1: movies were big. It's if you're around these days and

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Speaker 1: you're not familiar with how things were back then, a

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Speaker 1: big TV movie like this could be a sort of

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Speaker 1: a national phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Because I mean, you had a very limited amount

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Speaker 2: of choices of what to watch on any given night.

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Speaker 2: So if there's a big TV movie, they promoted the

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Speaker 2: heck out of it, and all the the whole country

293
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Speaker 2: could be talking about it for the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: You'd be reading about it in the newspaper. It would

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Speaker 2: be a big deal, right, So yeah, and this was

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Speaker 2: a big deal too. You mentioned that there wasn't much

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Speaker 2: alien stuff in there, and apparently Betty Hill was very

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Speaker 2: disappointed that James Earl Jones and the producers had kind

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Speaker 2: of taken this story that to her was a legitimate

300
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Speaker 2: alien abduction story and used it to explore the themes

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Speaker 2: of like interracial marriage, civil rights, being black in a

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Speaker 2: largely white state Barney's general experience as being a black

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Speaker 2: man in the in the sixties, and she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that probably has something to do with it, but really

305
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Speaker 2: we need more aliens, right. It had a huge hard

306
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,760
Speaker 2: to argue with that exactly. And it had a huge

307
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 2: effect too because it kicked off so everything we know

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Speaker 2: about alien abductions, the whole narrative, the whole thread, all

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Speaker 2: the claims that followed are based largely on Betty and

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Speaker 2: Barney Hill's experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it should come as no surprise that after

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Speaker 1: that movie airs, a lot more of these stories start

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Speaker 1: to pop up. Very famous one just a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks later after the movie aired nineteen seventy five, is

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Speaker 1: when the logger Travis Walton in Arizona was you know,

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Speaker 1: beamed up into that spaceship became a movie Fire in

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Speaker 1: the Sky in nineteen ninety three. He was gone for

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Speaker 1: about a week, came back said that he was examined

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Speaker 1: by what we would now call the Grays, a little

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Speaker 1: short baldies. Yeah, and it just, you know, things really

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Speaker 1: start to ramp up, almost in lockstep with stories ramping up,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense, Like we're kind of feeding each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. By the way, Travis Walton was roundly exposed as

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Speaker 2: a hoaxter and so was everybody in his group. And

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Speaker 2: they saw it attributed to his boss, the head of

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Speaker 2: this logging company, wanting to get out of an unlucrative

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Speaker 2: contract with the federal government, so they concocted this story.

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Speaker 1: It's a good way to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is so seventies. You know that, that's how

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Speaker 2: you would get out of a movie contract.

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Speaker 1: Uh, not a bad movie, though, Fire in the Guy

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Speaker 1: was pretty good.

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Speaker 2: I never saw it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that bad. D B.

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Speaker 2: Sweeney, Yeah, was he on Saturday Night Live? Why do

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Speaker 2: I think that?

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Speaker 1: Uh? You're thinking there was another swinge Julius Sweeney.

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Speaker 2: I know, but I thought dB sweet Sweeney was too.

339
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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm conflating Julius Julius Sweeney and G. E. Smith

340
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Speaker 2: and Saturday Night Live Band and coming up with dB.

341
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Speaker 1: SWEENEYH Maybe so G Smith was great?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I saw G. Smith and the Sara Night Live

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Speaker 2: Band backing up halland Oates at the first ever concert

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Speaker 2: I ever saw.

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Speaker 1: Now, my friend I knew you went and saw Hall

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Speaker 1: of Oates. I did not know that G. Smith was

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Speaker 1: in the SNL band? Was the band?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And the I think it was the sect player

349
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Speaker 2: who wore like the floor length mink coats, like the

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Speaker 2: whole shebang. It was like the tick of Ala abandoned.

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Speaker 2: That's who was touring with Hall.

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Speaker 1: And Oates, and Oates was like, can you tone it down?

353
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Speaker 1: Can get rid of that coat?

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Speaker 2: It's competing with my hair and mustache.

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Speaker 1: All right, I think we should probably take a break. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, and we'll be right back and talk about

357
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 1: more grays right after this. All right. So that was

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Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies, but basically from the fifties

359
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 1: on through the seventies, there were all kinds of encounters

360
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of different kinds of aliens

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00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 1: that people were reporting, ranging from a headless wing bat

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00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: kind of thing in England to a pointy eared, glowing

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00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 1: eyed creature in North Carolina. And this is when UFO

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00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: research groups, who very much want people to believe that

365
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 1: UFOs and aliens are real, I get the feeling behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes are like, guys, we got to consolidate around

367
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Speaker 1: to look here because all these weird aliens that people

368
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: are reporting are not doing ourselves are any favors. Basically,

369
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Speaker 1: so can we settle on the Grays and they did.

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00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that somehow or another, that is exactly how

371
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 2: it happened, and it ended up in mainstream pop culture

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00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 2: being adopted like that, where Like, as the Grays became

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Speaker 2: more and more widespread, it was like a positive feedback

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Speaker 2: where more people portrayed aliens as the Grays because that's

375
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Speaker 2: what aliens looked like, and it just kept spreading from

376
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Speaker 2: there until the general streamlined understanding of what aliens looked

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00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: like was the Grays over time. And I just want

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Speaker 2: to point out that probably the greatest X Files episode

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Speaker 2: of all time, Jose Chunks from Outer Space, turns this

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00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 2: process on its head, where there are two gray aliens

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00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 2: that turn out to be human actors in costumes who

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00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 2: themselves have an actual legitimate alien encounter with an alien

383
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 2: that looks like one of the just bizarre kind from

384
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Speaker 2: the fifties. It's like has fur, it's a cyclops with

385
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: a horn, and it has like a chicken legs, and

386
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 2: that's like the actual alien. And I just think that's

387
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 2: just as sharp as can be, that they took that

388
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Speaker 2: thread and just twisted it around.

389
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Speaker 1: I don't remember that episode. I was not an X

390
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,239
Speaker 1: Files watcher at the time when it aired. Huh. I

391
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: got into it in the uh. Although when did it stop,

392
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, like the early two thousands. Okay, well what

393
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: I did it was syndicated while it was still going then,

394
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: I guess because I started watching reruns and syndication in

395
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 1: like ninety seven, and don't I don't even know if

396
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: I kind of started at the beginning and watched it

397
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: all the way through. But when I was living in

398
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: New Jersey, I ended up watching a lot of X Files,

399
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: so then enjoyed it quite a bit.

400
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: This is a standalone episode. You don't have to know

401
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: anything that's going on to and joy. Yeah. Yeah, if

402
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 2: you do know what's going on, it's even more enjoyable.

403
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 2: But jose Chung is this science fiction author who has

404
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: a book or something called from Outer Space, and he's

405
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: played by Charles Nelson Riley. There's stories of the Men

406
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: in Black showing up, and the Men in Black are

407
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 2: played by Alex Trebek and Jesse the Body Ventura as themselves,

408
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: but they're Men in Black. Oh yeah, it's an amazing episode.

409
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: It's so great, So.

410
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: I definitely don't remember that one.

411
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 2: You need to go see it. It's really worth all right,

412
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 2: it's worth your forty four minutes of your time.

413
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: Were you into X files from the beginning, like Live

414
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: Run or whatever?

415
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: Pretty much?

416
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

417
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah when I watch it now, though I used to

418
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 2: when originally I was like, God, get this stupid monster

419
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 2: stuff out of let's get back to the alien right.

420
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

421
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: Now as a grown up, I'm like, that alien conspiracy

422
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 2: thing is so played out. I really enjoy the Monster

423
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: of the Week episode. Yeah more.

424
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the mix of the two was kind

425
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: of what made it so great.

426
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very smart, all right.

427
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 1: So the other thing we should mention about the Grays

428
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,479
Speaker 1: is that when Betty at one point they had her

429
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: recreate a star map that the aliens who captured her

430
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: had shown her, and when she described what she had seen,

431
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: a lot of people said, it sounds a lot like

432
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: Zeta Reticuli, which is a star system about thirty nine

433
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: light years from Earth. And so you might hear them

434
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: called Grays, but if you ever hear any anyone in

435
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: the in the BIZ, I guess refer to the aliens

436
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: as Zeta reticulans. That comes from that.

437
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like we said, a lot of the just the

438
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 2: basics of alien abduction stories were founded by the Hills,

439
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: unaccounted for missing time, being abducted, being probed just yeah,

440
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: exactly all that stuff originally with the Hills, but it

441
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: formed the basis or foundation that other people that come

442
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: just kind of slowly built on. And there was one

443
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 2: person who contributed quite a bit, an artist from New

444
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 2: York named Bud Hopkins, who said that he had a

445
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: close encounter. I guess it would be the second kind

446
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: where they just saw like a flying saucer over Cape

447
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: cod But it was enough, it was enough of an

448
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: experience that he kind of became, I don't know if

449
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: obsessed as the right were, but deeply interested in the

450
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 2: idea of UFOs and aliens. So he started kind of

451
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: researching the whole thing and ended up writing a book

452
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one called I Got to Take a

453
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: Deep Breath Missing Time. Colon documented stories of people kidnapp

454
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: by UFOs and then returned with their memories or race.

455
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't want to leave anything to chance as

456
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: far as people misunderstanding what his book was about.

457
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, Colan, does that make sense.

458
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: Right, Colan, I'm talking about aliens, baby. So that was

459
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: a pretty big book and it established that pattern that

460
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: we've been talking about of these abduction stories where you

461
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: see the UFO and sometimes you don't remember anything and

462
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: you just wake up in bed or whatever. Not accounting

463
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: for the time there was a young woman in the book.

464
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: It was the first time that anyone had claimed to

465
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: have been abducted twice, a young woman named Virginia Horton

466
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: when she was six, so I guess she was a

467
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: little girl then and then at sixteen years old. And

468
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: this also follows a pattern in the second one, she

469
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: followed a deer into the woods and then woke up

470
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: at home with a bloody nose and following an annial

471
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: into the woods. As a story that pops up kind

472
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: of quite a bit. You're talking about alien abduction.

473
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. So one of the other things that Bud

474
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: Hopkins contributed was the idea that people were being repeatedly abducted.

475
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: Some people were, and that he's like, probably what's going

476
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: on is they're being impregnated and then you know, they

477
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: give birth and then this hybrid alien human baby is born,

478
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: and that's really what's going on.

479
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: Here, and that they take that baby daily.

480
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think he also suggested that this was

481
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,959
Speaker 2: for the benefit of the human race that this was

482
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: that they were actually benevolent as brutal or I guess

483
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 2: uncomfortable as their tactics may have seemed.

484
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So things are really cooking at this point.

485
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: Finally we get to a very very popular book. Those

486
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: guy named Whitley's Streber, who was a writer already in

487
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: this really helped, you know, the fact that he was

488
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: already a writer and had like the backing of publishers

489
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: get this book out there. But he was a horror

490
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: and science fiction writer and an eighty seven published the

491
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: book Communion, which had if you look up the cover

492
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: of Communion, the illustration that was done by Ted Jacobs

493
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: along with you know, Striber, because he was like, this

494
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: is what I saw. You got to draw this that

495
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: that is as stereotypical alien head as you could imagine

496
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: on the cover of this very popular book.

497
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, like if the Grays had kind of been percolating

498
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: throughout pop culture, this is like where all that all

499
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: those different threads got pulled into one alien image and

500
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: then from that moment on, that's essentially what the Grays

501
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: looked like that cover illustration. Because it was just such

502
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 2: a widely read book and Streiber says and always has said,

503
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: from what I can tell, he's never broken character. If

504
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: this was a hoax, He's never ever even intimated that

505
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: it was. He's He said that until he started realizing

506
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: that he had been abducted, he had never really been

507
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: much into aliens, had never done much research, so he

508
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: was giving the impression that all of his accounts were fresh.

509
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: He went into him fresh, like George Costanzo right, he

510
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: didn't know what he was talking about when he was

511
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: writing about this. This was a legitimate memory. And as

512
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: he remembered more and more and more, he realized that

513
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: this had been going on since childhood, and the entire

514
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: chunks of his life were fabricated memories that had been

515
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: implanted by the aliens that abducted him to cover up

516
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: the memories of his actual abductions and what they were

517
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: doing to him on their ships. And so in addition

518
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: to that cover alien of the image of the Grays.

519
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 2: One of the big things that Whitley Striver contributed to

520
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: the whole I guess phenomenon is the idea of screen

521
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: memories that now no longer was it just missing time.

522
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: You might not be missing time, You might not even

523
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: remember having been abducted, but you just knew you'd been abducted,

524
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: and if you thought about it enough, or if you

525
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: went and tried to get to the bottom of your

526
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: repressed memories, those screen memories would fall away and the

527
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: true memories of your abduction would bubble up to the surface.

528
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a very, very big book. It

529
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: became a movie in nineteen eighty nine, a Christopher Walkin movie.

530
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I saw it back then. I don't

531
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: know if I saw it in the theater or not.

532
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: It feels like a VHS movie to me, Yeah, for sure.

533
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: But Walkin played him. If you look up the trailer

534
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: on YouTube, it's a terrifying trailer. It's really unsettling. You

535
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: should watch it. With the music and everything. They portray

536
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: it as like a horror movie basically. But he is

537
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: one that also Stryverer, that is, who never also claimed

538
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: like officially that they were space alien. He was just like, hey,

539
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: this happened to me. I'm not saying there's space aliens necessarily.

540
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: He actually said they could come from another dimension, or

541
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: maybe it could be something else. I know. In one

542
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: of our UFO episodes, I talked about the fact that

543
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: there are some people who think that the Grays are

544
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: just humans from the future. Yeah, and that's what we

545
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: eventually evolved to look like because our brains get bigger

546
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: and bigger, so our heads bigger, and the actual outer

547
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: ear is superfluous to the real hearing mechanism, So that's

548
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: why they don't appear to have ears or noses. They

549
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: just have ear holes and nose holes. And you know,

550
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: as we go on, the eyes are supposedly getting bigger

551
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: as we evolve, So that's you know, that's one theory.

552
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: Right or another one is that they're from another dimension,

553
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: not necessarily from space. One of the other things that

554
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: Striver contributed was the idea that you would be probed

555
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: anally or sexually in some way, shape or form. Remember

556
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: Boas the Brazilian farmer, was the one who contributed being

557
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 2: sexually assaulted aboard a spaceship the UFO exactly, But apparently

558
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: most scholars trace the anal probe trope to Whitley Striber.

559
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: He said that there was a large object with a

560
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: network of wires on the end that was inserted into

561
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: his rectum. And what's interesting is that bears a strange

562
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: resemblance to what Barney Hill claimed too. He said that

563
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: he had been anally probed and that there was a

564
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: needle with a network of wires or something along that line.

565
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: He didn't use that exact phrase, but that it had

566
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: been left out of the book by John G. Fuller,

567
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: that detail had it was only it was only it

568
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: only showed up in a nineteen sixty five Nightcap report,

569
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: So it wasn't well known at the time. Although it's

570
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: entirely possible that if Whitley Striver was a hoaxer, you

571
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: can imagine as a writer, he would have done enough

572
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,479
Speaker 2: research to go back and read a nineteen sixty five

573
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: report about the quintessential abduction experience.

574
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And as far as the anal probe goes, I've

575
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: given this a lot of thought over the years, uh huh,

576
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: and so like why that's always a thing, And the

577
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: only thing I could come up with is that, you know,

578
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: there are only so many holes. There are only so

579
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: many areas of entry in your body, you know. Yeah,

580
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: And there are reports of you know, nose probes and

581
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: bleeding noses and stuff like that, And I think the

582
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: the hidden quality, the hidden nature of the butthole might

583
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: entice aliens to be like you know, there they see

584
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: the nose, they see the ears, they see how the

585
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: obvious ones, and then there's like ooh, there's a hidden one, right,

586
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: like what treasure awaits us?

587
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's universal, not just among humans but around the universe,

588
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: Like what is in that butthole? Yeah, that's a great

589
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: good stuff. I like that. Uh so, yeah, that's that's

590
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: just kind of like a little like a lot of

591
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: people chuck that up to Whitley Striber, which may or

592
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: may not be Yeah, correct, but that is interesting. That

593
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: was nineteen eighty nine that the movie community came out,

594
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: what'd you say, nineteen eighty seven for the book that

595
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 2: had a huge effect. The X Files, like we said,

596
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: came along and took all this stuff. Like if you

597
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: watch the X Files back then or now or whenever,

598
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: all of this is just so familiar. Like Chris Carter

599
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: apparently read up on the abduction phenomenon and just turned

600
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: it into different plot lines, right, so yeah, pure goal. Yeah,

601
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: and so that just spread it out into the pop

602
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: culture even further. And then there was a guy named

603
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: John Mack who was the head of Harvard's psychiatry department,

604
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: who was far and away the most credentialed person to

605
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: come out and say I'm pretty sure these people are

606
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 2: telling the truth in some way, shape or form.

607
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And everyone was like, sure, you want to come

608
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: out with us?

609
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he did very bravely. He was one of

610
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: those people who railed against science just kind of having

611
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: its own dogma, keeping its head in the sand about

612
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: things that couldn't explain. He didn't like that very much,

613
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: so that kind of fit with his vibe from what

614
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: I can tell, But he kind of lent a little

615
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: bit of legitimacy, especially if you were on the fringes.

616
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: The fact that he was saying the stuff just gave

617
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: you so much support. Right then.

618
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a book in ninety four about thirteen

619
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: different abduction cases called Abduction colon Human Encounters with Alien Parentheses. Btw,

620
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: I teach at Harvard.

621
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: Right, did I mention? Yeah? So I say we take

622
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: another break and come back and talk about what scholars

623
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: who don't buy the fact that these are actual alien

624
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: abductions make of all this.

625
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets pretty interesting after this.

626
00:34:43,800 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, Chuck, there's a couple of nuts and

627
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: bolts things you should know about UFO subculture and it's

628
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: so extensive, and it's been around for so long, and

629
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: the people who are into it are so into it

630
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 2: that just by glossing over it, we're probably gonna get

631
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: stuff wrong, or we're just going to walk past some stuff.

632
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: We're not experts, We've never claimed to be experts, and

633
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: we're not experts of UFO subculture, So just want to

634
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: caveat that. Probably should have said that at the outset

635
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: of this episode. But in UFO subculture, from the research

636
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: I've seen, there's a you can kind of divide people

637
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: into two groups. One are contactees people who have met aliens,

638
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: and the other is abductees, and those are people who

639
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 2: have been taken by it millions. And if you'll remember

640
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: back to our Project blue Book episode, there was an

641
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: astronomer named Jay Allen Heinek who was a debunker of

642
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: UFOs until he just became a true believer. He's the

643
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: guy who came up with the close encounters classifications. Yeah,

644
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: he left off with close encounters of the third kind contact.

645
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: What abductees brought to that was close encounters of the

646
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: fourth kind, where you were taken against your will into

647
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: a spaceship. And among those two different groups there's two

648
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: very different views of aliens between contact e's and abductees.

649
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, if you're a contactee, you're much more

650
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: likely to relate a positive experience. Basically, I think a

651
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: lot of the contactees I've read that they feel like

652
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: they're like a feeling of being chosen, like in a

653
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: good way. Abductees, it's kind of the other way around.

654
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of stories of probing, non consensual encounters,

655
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: medical procedures going on. You know, all the stuff that

656
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: you hear about shoving things in different holes of your

657
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: body are not positive experiences for most abductees. And it's

658
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: really interesting. I think that the contact ease can feel

659
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: like chosen or touched. Where's the abductees feel violated?

660
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: It is super interesting. There's also kind of a subgroup

661
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: of abductees. Those are the people who have no memory

662
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: of being abducted, but they're sure that they were abducted.

663
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 2: They probably have unaccounted time in their life that they

664
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: can look back on and think like what happened there?

665
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: They just get the sense that they're abducted too.

666
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: Right, So yeah, which is interesting.

667
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: It is super interesting. The thing is this is really

668
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 2: really important. I saw this in a lot of different

669
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: places with people who research UFO abductees. They say that

670
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: there are definitely people who are hoaxters. Yeah, there are

671
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: definitely people who have like serious mental illness and are

672
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: actually delusional, but that by and large, on the whole,

673
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 2: UFO abductees are sane, sincere, genuine people who truly believe

674
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 2: that they were abducted by aliens and whose lives have

675
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 2: been in a lot of cases wrecked by it because

676
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: they display the symptoms of trauma. They have post traumatic

677
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: stress disorder symptoms from being abducted. And so if you're like, well,

678
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 2: you know, I don't really buy any of this as

679
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: being alien in nature, Like how would you explain it?

680
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: And so sociology and psychology have said about trying to

681
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: explain it, neither ones really kind of rung the bell fully.

682
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: Yet, Yeah, for sure, there is there as plenty of

683
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: research that's been done, even though they haven't you know,

684
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: like you said, they haven't come to it like a

685
00:38:53,640 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: great conclusion about it. But abductees their memories. The idea

686
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: is like, if you're an abductee or you claim to

687
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: be an abductee, then you're probably more prone to false memory,

688
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: and there are some different tests they can do. One

689
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 1: is called the Deese Rodiger McDermott task DRM, and that's

690
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: where they give you a bunch of words that are

691
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: sort of linked together, but there's a one word. They

692
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: call it a lure word that's missing. So lyvia put

693
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: together an example of snooze, blanket, snore or dream pillow bed.

694
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: They don't use the word sleep in there, very key,

695
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: but obviously that's the one word that's missing. And the

696
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: people that are asked to sort of recount this and

697
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: if they insert the missing word that there was never mentioned,

698
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: like if they say sleep, then they're saying, all right, well,

699
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: you're more susceptible to a false memory because we never

700
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: said sleep.

701
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: So there, Yeah, that's exactly how they present it to

702
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: yeh at the end of the study. It's very humiliating,

703
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: but yeah, that's kind of one of the general premises

704
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 2: that people who believe that they were abducted by UFOs

705
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: and whose lives are really affected by it negatively just

706
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 2: are more susceptible to generating false memories, and some research

707
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: backs that up. There have been studies that show that

708
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: they do report more critical lower words than other people.

709
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 2: Who don't believe they were abducted. Other studies say, we

710
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: tried the same thing and found no difference whatsoever between

711
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: the two, but we did find differences in other psychological

712
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: traits like disassociativity, like having like reality seems unreal to you, absorption,

713
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: which is a predisposition to get deeply immersed in sensory

714
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: or mystical experiences, the likelier to have paranormal beliefs, likelier

715
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 2: to believe that they have psychic abilities, fantasy proneness, difficulty

716
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 2: differentiating between fantasy and reality, and a tendency to hallucinate.

717
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: And that so these people are like, no, it's not

718
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: a proneeness to developing false memories. It's all these other

719
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: traits that are basically they're luring these people into this

720
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: kind of fantasy world that they're not distinguishing from reality,

721
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: and that that essentially has become part of their life

722
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 2: to them, they've adopted that as part of their life.

723
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: Those seem to be the two dominant rival psychological explanations

724
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: for this.

725
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's another sort of not sort of it

726
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: sounds incredibly cruel. Test that was done, or a study

727
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: rather when they got kids together either seven or eight

728
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: year olds or eleven and twelve year olds, and they said,

729
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: you were abducted by an alien when you were four

730
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: years old. In fact, here's your mom and she's gonna

731
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: reinforce this by telling you this happened. And here's a

732
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: fake newspaper. Well they don't say fake, but here's a

733
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: newspaper report that talks about these abductions being you know,

734
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: pretty calm, and it's totally made up, of course. And

735
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: then if these children go on to describe a lot

736
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: more detail about the memory of being abducted when they

737
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: were four years old, then their classified as having false memories.

738
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: And I just I can't believe that they were allowed

739
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: to get away with doing it.

740
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, from what this one, I think a British Psychological

741
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: Association or society article found that they could find two

742
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: studies that tried to implant false subduction memories into kids.

743
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: One was from nineteen eighty four and they actually ascribed

744
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: abductions to basically suppressed or repressed memories of being born.

745
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: And then this one from two thousand and nine with

746
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: Oatgar and friends, right, and like, yeah, it's deeply unethical,

747
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: and they debriefed the kids. They said, no, this is

748
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 2: all just a study or whatever, so you don't walk

749
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: around thinking like this actually really happened to you, but

750
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: who knows if that really worked. But it raised a

751
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: really important point, really as unethical as it was, showed

752
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 2: how easy it is for false memories to be implanted,

753
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 2: especially if you are being told that by someone in

754
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: a position and of authority like your psychologists or therapists

755
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: or psychiatrist. Right. Yeah, And there's a really big rift

756
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: in the field of psychology and psychiatry between whether you

757
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: whether traumatic memories can be repressed, and if so, that

758
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 2: means they can probably be recovered through good therapy, or

759
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 2: if you don't actually repress traumatic experiences, and that if

760
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: you do try to recover memories, what you remember is

761
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: going to be false memories that are accidentally implanted. So

762
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: that whole premise that you have missing time, and that

763
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 2: if you go see a therapist who's sympathetic and understands

764
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 2: what you're going through, they will help you recover those memories.

765
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: It strongly suggests that all those are our false memories,

766
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 2: even though again they're causing real legitimate pain in these

767
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 2: people's lives.

768
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And I know we talked about this

769
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: and maybe Project Bluebrik Book, but some others as far

770
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: as what else this could be why you're having these

771
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: false memories, and sleep paralysis always seems to come up.

772
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: We did an episode on this. About fifteen percent of

773
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: the population experiences it. It's when you wake up in

774
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: the middle of the night. You can't move, You might

775
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: hear some buzzing sounds, you might see flashing lights. You

776
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: almost always, it seems like, see pretty frightening shadowy figures

777
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: in your room, maybe hovering above you or at the

778
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: foot of your bed. So sleep paralysis could explain some

779
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: of this, or theoretically it could. And then another one

780
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: which is interesting as far as the hypothesis goes, is

781
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: magnetic disturbances by plate tectonics that are causing hallucinations. And

782
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: this is what's really interesting to me, distorted recollections of

783
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: meta procedures while you're under anesthesia, like as you're going out.

784
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: I think anyone who's ever done the twilight sleep thing

785
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: for some you know or major you know surgery, When

786
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: you're fully under that six or seven seconds where you're

787
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 1: laying there with the bright light above you and people

788
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: hovering over you, it gets weirder and weirder, and people

789
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: think that this could be associated with that because a

790
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: lot of the people who had reported abductions had undergone

791
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: surgery recently.

792
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty pretty interesting as far as coincidences go.

793
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: That's anesthesia awareness, and I think I think we did

794
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: a whole episode on it. The idea that you can

795
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 2: have memories if you're not under quite enough, and that

796
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: if it's a medical procedure, yeah, you could remember that

797
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 2: as aliens, you know, probing you or whatever.

798
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, that's what it feels like.

799
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well guess so for sure, I just remember being like, man,

800
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: I'm so wasted, reminding myself like, oh yeah, I'm allowed

801
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: to be These people got me wasted, right. Sociology, for

802
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: their part, has done some study too, and just kind

803
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 2: of quickly what they've come up with is that if

804
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: you are very religious, you're probably less likely to believe

805
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: in aliens and even less likely to believe you were

806
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: abducted by aliens. But if you are untrusting of the government,

807
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: you're far likelier to no surprise, yeah, to believe that

808
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: you were abducted by aliens.

809
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And also the

810
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: fact that who is it Joseph O. Baker's a sociologist

811
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: who studies this stuff a lot, and he's like, post Watergate,

812
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: you saw a lot of this stuff happening, and that's

813
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, when a lot of people have had big

814
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: distrust of the government. So it sort of there's a

815
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: correlation there at least for sure.

816
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: And then I say we wrap it up on that

817
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: study by Bud Hopkins, the artists who've gotten real deep into.

818
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: Abduction lore, Yeah, let's do.

819
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: It, Okay. So in the nineties Bud Hopkins worked with

820
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 2: some academics and came up with like a legitimate random

821
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: survey that sought to see how many of the population,

822
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: like what percentage of the population believes they were abducted,

823
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: And they came up with a like five like a

824
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 2: questionnaire that got to the bottom of whether somebody felt

825
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 2: like they had experienced five different aspects of abduction, right

826
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: waking up paralyzed, with a sense of strange presence in

827
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: the room, losing an hour or more of time that

828
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 2: lost an accounted for a time. Feeling of flying could

829
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 2: also correlate with witchcraft. Seeing strange lights in a room

830
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: and then finding odd scars on your body and being

831
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: like I have no idea where the scar came from.

832
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they did that this in the early nineteen nineties.

833
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 1: They did some they know, controlled the data or did

834
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: some controlling for the data, and they found that two

835
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: percent of the sample had four of those five related

836
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 1: experien variance has happen to them, which is about three

837
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: point seven million Americans. That number, I think at UFO

838
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: ologists and you know, people who study this stuff say, now,

839
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 1: you know that number is really really high. It's probably

840
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 1: more like thousands, but three point seven million people experience

841
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: at least for of those five things.

842
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people. So a lot of people

843
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 2: use that in like articles and stuff on that, like,

844
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 2: three point seven million is a big number. But yeah,

845
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: I just want to point out they they had a

846
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: really ingenious way of separating out the fibers from the outset.

847
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: One of the questions was, you know, does the word

848
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,959
Speaker 2: trondant mean have special meaning for you? And about one

849
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: percent of respondents said, yep, that really does you know

850
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about? And Trondon is a made up

851
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: word that they used to catch fibers. And I think

852
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 2: Trondon is like a really great band name too, especially

853
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: because of the background it.

854
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: Has Yeah, Space Rocket, good one.

855
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: You got anything else? Yeah, Yeah, I mean, the whole

856
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 2: thing's still ongoing. There's plenty of people out there who

857
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: believe they were abducted, and psychology is still struggling to

858
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of it fully, So hopefully it will,

859
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: so it can help all those people whose lives are

860
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 2: affected by it negatively.

861
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And at the very least we've gotten some fun

862
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: movie and TVs out of.

863
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: There for sure. If you want to know more about

864
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 2: alien abductions, there's a lot to read out there, and

865
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 2: you can do that. And in the meantime, we're just

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00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:27,959
Speaker 2: going to go ahead and have a listener mail.

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00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, been listening since twenty thirteen. Since then, you've

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00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: been with me through college graduation, brain surgery, a wedding,

869
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: COVID at, my teaching career, IVYF and.

870
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: Our new baby Wowee.

871
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: Since Amber was born in last July, and catching up

872
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: on missed episodes. In August twenty twenty three, I think

873
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: you had a couple of EPs about language acquisition. This

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00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: is so in my wheelhouse because I'm a middle high

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00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: school Spanish teacher and it maybe think of this anecdote

876
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: relating to language act posician frequently pepper Spanish into my

877
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: daily vocabulary. And I also hate squirrels. This is right

878
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 1: up your alley, Josh. I frequently refer to them in Spanish.

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00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: One day last summer, I asked my husband, who is

880
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: a gringo, what he thought the Spanish word for squirrel was.

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00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: He hesitated and then guessed, bendejo. I'll let you look

882
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 1: up at that word actually means, but it's definitely not squirrel.

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00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: After listening to the Para Social Relationship episode, I got

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00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: too embarrassed to tell you this anecdote anecdote right away

885
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: after the language episodes, but I decided to send it

886
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: anyway now. Currently listening to the twenty twenty three Halloween

887
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: special and hope to be caught up by June. And

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00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 1: that is from Becky Hill.

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00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Becky, and congratulations to you and your

890
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 2: husband on the birth of Amber. And from what I

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00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 2: know about bendejo, like that's a pretty accurate.

892
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: Term for squirrel.

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00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, if you want to be like Becky and

894
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: get in touch with us and just share some great

895
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: stuff about your life, we love to hear that. You

896
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: can send it off in an email to Stuff Podcast

897
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a

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00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the

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00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

900
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 2: favorite shows.