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Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV
Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio. We are your hosts. I'm Roscha Pequerrero.
Speaker 3: And I'm the Evet Gentila and here, as always, we're
Speaker 3: with our producer, mister Trevor Young.
Speaker 1: Hi there. I hope you're surviving the heat. Everyone barely trying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's bad, but it's just right after a labor day.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to throw out one thing that I
Speaker 1: did this past weekend. And I don't know if you
Speaker 1: guys have ever been to anything like this, but I
Speaker 1: went to a nerd con called dragon Con. It's in
Speaker 1: Atlanta every year. Have you heard of it.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about this, and I'm so
Speaker 2: happy that you brought it up because I saw it
Speaker 2: in your stories and I'm like, what is dragon Con?
Speaker 2: Please tell me all the things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's a con like comic Con or you know,
Speaker 1: anything like that, but it is very different. It's more
Speaker 1: of like a party. So instead of having like a
Speaker 1: big expo haul with all these you know, companies and
Speaker 1: Marvel and whoever, like showing whatever their new shows and
Speaker 1: movies are, which is kind of like what comic Con
Speaker 1: usually is. Instead, it's just like for the fans entirely,
Speaker 1: so people dress up. It's like thousands and thousands of
Speaker 1: people and it really consumes the entirety of downtown Atlanta
Speaker 1: for like five days during Labor Day weekend.
Speaker 2: Wow, did you dress up?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I had. I had a few outfits. It's it's weird.
Speaker 1: It's like you can go in normal clothes, but I
Speaker 1: feel like you're missing out, a missing out on a
Speaker 1: big part of the fun if you do that.
Speaker 2: Right, So, what did you go as?
Speaker 1: I only did two outfits that I kind of recyct
Speaker 1: go throughout the weekend. One of them was a character
Speaker 1: from the new movie Everything Everywhere, All at Once, which
Speaker 1: is he's like a chef and he's like controlled by
Speaker 1: a raccoon on his head. It's like a spoof of Retitui.
Speaker 1: Oh right, right right, And then Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.
Speaker 1: Which is really easy. You just like wear a suit,
Speaker 1: slick your hair back and put on a poncho.
Speaker 2: Pictures or it didn't happen, Trevor. We need to see yo,
Speaker 2: see your outfit changes.
Speaker 1: Well, next year you guys are going to Dragon Con.
Speaker 1: Let me make it happen. Maybe we can do a
Speaker 1: live episode from Dragon Content.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that would be epic. Can't wait, Trevor,
Speaker 3: mm hmm. So Trevor, with that, will you please take
Speaker 3: us through today's case.
Speaker 4: In Texas and the trial of one of the man
Speaker 4: chars with ragging to death a black man simply because
Speaker 4: of his race. The testimony today was devastating. The suspect
Speaker 4: racial hatred was so deep and threatening and well known
Speaker 4: to his friends.
Speaker 5: When I found out that my dad was brutally killed
Speaker 5: by three white supremacists, I was in denial.
Speaker 1: I was the numb first.
Speaker 4: William Hoover, who served time in prison with King, testified
Speaker 4: that King discussed abducting a black man and killing him
Speaker 4: to win membership in a racist game.
Speaker 1: James Bird Junior was a forty nine year old black
Speaker 1: man from Texas who was killed by three white supremacists
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety eight, in the early morning hours of
Speaker 1: June seventh, James was walking home from his parents' house
Speaker 1: in rural Jasper County after attending a bridal shower for
Speaker 1: his niece. He was offered a ride by three white
Speaker 1: men in a pickup truck, Shawn Berry, Lawrence Brewer, and
Speaker 1: John King. The three men did not take Bird home. Instead,
Speaker 1: they drove him to a logging road just outside of town,
Speaker 1: where they beat and tortured James to death. Then they
Speaker 1: left his lifeless body in front of a church. The
Speaker 1: murder of James Burg Junior shocked the nation. Many had
Speaker 1: believed that such brutal racial attacks like this were part
Speaker 1: of its Jim crow erab past, and the case sparked
Speaker 1: new conversations about lynchings and helped pave the way for
Speaker 1: updated hate crimes legislation. And So, what happened to James
Speaker 1: Bird Junior, How did his death serve as a wake
Speaker 1: up call for the country, And what lessons about racism
Speaker 1: and violence can we learn today from this difficult story.
Speaker 2: So as a reminder, we briefly heard about the case
Speaker 2: of James Bird Junior on the Matthew Shepherd episode. So
Speaker 2: both cases involved a brutal killing, which were considered hate crimes.
Speaker 2: They both happened in the same year, and they were
Speaker 2: both included on a key piece of legislation.
Speaker 3: But unlike Matthew, this case has a key difference. We
Speaker 3: all knew that prejudice thing gets gay people was a
Speaker 3: thing back in the nineties, and that violence was a
Speaker 3: very real possibility for queer people, but we didn't think
Speaker 3: that lynchings were still happening. But sadly we learn that
Speaker 3: lynchings are not a relic of the past in this country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately, no. And just quickly, when I think of
Speaker 2: a lynching, right, I think of a racially motivated murder,
Speaker 2: you know, I immediately picture those horrible you know photos
Speaker 2: of you know, the KKK, or these horrible white perpetrators
Speaker 2: who like basically celebrated these lynchings.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: It just makes you sick to your stomach, like in
Speaker 3: the pit of your stomach.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, I mean, honestly, this case kind
Speaker 1: of does end up looking like that, and it is
Speaker 1: one of many that still happens in today's modern era.
Speaker 1: I mean, between eighteen eighty two and nineteen sixty eight,
Speaker 1: the NAACP said that there were four thousand, seven hundred
Speaker 1: and forty three reported lynchings in the United States and
Speaker 1: just reported, so there were almost certainly even more than that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean definitely not over. I mean, Trevor,
Speaker 3: when I hear that, I think right away about Ahmud Aubrey,
Speaker 3: the young man who was killed in twenty twenty, and
Speaker 3: he was just you know, jogging through a white, affluent
Speaker 3: neighborhood and this happened, you know, in Savannah, Georgia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and broad daylight, I mean.
Speaker 3: In broad daylight twenty twenty. Here we are again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I know they classified a mad Arbory's
Speaker 1: death as a lynching. They still do happen, even as
Speaker 1: recently as twenty twenty. And I'm sure lots of things
Speaker 1: we don't hear about even happening this year. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why we're here talking about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So let's talk about James Burr Junior. He
Speaker 2: was a forty nine year old black man who was
Speaker 2: born and raised in Jasper County, Texas. He came from
Speaker 2: a religious family. His mother was a Sunday school teacher
Speaker 2: and his father was a deacon. He graduated from high
Speaker 2: school in nineteen sixty seven, and his school was the
Speaker 2: last segregated graduating class in the entire high school. So,
Speaker 2: you know, he grew up under the Jim Crow laws
Speaker 2: in Texas. I can only imagine what that was like
Speaker 2: for him and for so many others, you.
Speaker 3: Know, coming from a small town like you know, Jasper, Texas,
Speaker 3: where the population was only eight thousand, two hundred and
Speaker 3: forty seven. I mean it's a small community.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well, anyway, he ended up getting married and
Speaker 2: he had three children with his wife, and he worked
Speaker 2: as a vacuum salesman, and like many Americans at the time,
Speaker 2: he struggled with alcoholism. In the nineteen nineties, he even
Speaker 2: spent a brief period in jail for petty theft, and
Speaker 2: during his time in jail, he and his wife got divorced.
Speaker 2: He was released in nineteen ninety six, and at this
Speaker 2: point he was basically in the pro of rebuilding his life.
Speaker 1: Right, So at this point he's back in Jasper County
Speaker 1: and he's in AA Alcoholics Anonymous, and according to one
Speaker 1: report quote, his friends and family described him as a
Speaker 1: friendly father and grandfather who was charismatic, musically talented, and generally.
Speaker 2: Well liked, So this is where he's at on June seventh,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight. He's rebuilding his life. So on this
Speaker 2: particular night, it was really late between two and three
Speaker 2: in the morning, and he was walking home from his parents'
Speaker 2: house and he had been attending a family bridal shower.
Speaker 2: So that's when he was offered a ride home by
Speaker 2: three white strangers in a pickup truck. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: And he had, like you said, he had just come
Speaker 3: from this party and I was watching the documentary and
Speaker 3: like he was singing and dancing and like just having
Speaker 3: like such a great time, you know, and decided to
Speaker 3: leave and you know, walk home, you know, because again
Speaker 3: they're in a small town, right. But a witness named
Speaker 3: Steve Scott was driving home around that same time, and
Speaker 3: he said that he saw Bird walking along Martin Luther
Speaker 3: King Drive and a few minutes later he saw James again.
Speaker 3: This time he was riding in the bed of a
Speaker 3: pickup truck with three white men in the cab. So
Speaker 3: maybe he knew these guys.
Speaker 2: Maybe, but Steve Scott didn't realize the significance of what
Speaker 2: he was seeing at the time. But Steve was the
Speaker 2: last person ever to see James Bird Junior alive, and we'll.
Speaker 1: Pick it up right after we take a quick break.
Speaker 2: So James Bird Junior was familiar with one of the
Speaker 2: three white men that offered him a ride home that night,
Speaker 2: and so now that makes a little bit more sense
Speaker 2: in my mind as to why he jumped in the
Speaker 2: back of this particular pickup truck. So the man that
Speaker 2: he knew was twenty three year old Sean Berry, who
Speaker 2: happened to own the truck. With were John King who
Speaker 2: was also twenty three, and thirty one year old Lawrence Brewer.
Speaker 2: And we do know though, that the three men did
Speaker 2: not drive James home that night, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, as we said at the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: they drove him out to a logging road just outside
Speaker 1: of town and there they beat him, They defecated and
Speaker 1: urinated on him, and then they chained him to the
Speaker 1: truck by his ankles using a heavy logging chain and
Speaker 1: that's when they started to drive. And they drove for
Speaker 1: nearly three miles down Huff Creek Road, dragging James behind
Speaker 1: his truck without stopping. So after about a mile and
Speaker 1: a half, his body hit a culvert and that is
Speaker 1: what eventually killed him. The three men took james remains
Speaker 1: and then they left him right in front of a
Speaker 1: predominantly black church.
Speaker 3: This is just so sickening. It's like, I don't even
Speaker 3: have the words to think that this man was alive
Speaker 3: while being dragged behind this truck for a mile and
Speaker 3: a half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we know that he didn't die until
Speaker 1: he hit that colvert, So yeah, you know, for as
Speaker 1: long as I took he was being essentially like tortured,
Speaker 1: being dragged along the ground for that long. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you know, there was there was a documentary that
Speaker 3: I was watching with his oldest daughter, Renee, and she's like,
Speaker 3: you know, my dad was so strong, she was saying,
Speaker 3: because you know he was he was literally trying to
Speaker 3: hold his elbows, you know, up from the ground like
Speaker 3: he was. He was trying, you know, to save himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he couldn't.
Speaker 1: It's just horrible.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've known about what happened to James, but
Speaker 2: even just hearing you say that word for word, Tchever,
Speaker 2: it it like, you know, it puts a pit in
Speaker 2: your stomach right, like you just you feel just so sick.
Speaker 2: And you know, the one ironic fact that you did mention, Trevor,
Speaker 2: is that they did leave. You know, James's remains at
Speaker 2: a predominantly black church, and that church was Hoff Creek
Speaker 2: Memorial Chapel. And this church was actually the last remaining
Speaker 2: anchor site of the Huff Creek community, which was what
Speaker 2: was called or what was known as a freedom community
Speaker 2: for black people after the Civil War. And so the
Speaker 2: residents of this community were all former slaves and they
Speaker 2: built their own homes, their own businesses, their own schools,
Speaker 2: and their own churches. And they did that all using
Speaker 2: the very limited resources that they had. And freedom communities
Speaker 2: existed all over the South, and they were places for
Speaker 2: black people to exist and thrive safely, and they were
Speaker 2: usually located in relatively unsafe places during those decades of terror,
Speaker 2: places like for County, Texas. And by nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 2: there was essentially just this one church that was left
Speaker 2: and that was the only remnant of that legacy, and
Speaker 2: that's where his body was left.
Speaker 1: Do y all think that was on purpose? Do you
Speaker 1: think they did this as a as a kind of slight.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a part of me that absolutely thinks,
Speaker 3: you know, that it was on purpose. You know, you
Speaker 3: could say it was a sad irony, but I believe
Speaker 3: someone in that truck knew what they were doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if nothing else, it says a lot
Speaker 1: about the politics of you know, Jasper County and the
Speaker 1: kind of history that has taken place there. Right, you
Speaker 1: have like two sides of an issue that have been
Speaker 1: going on for decades are that are both very much alive.
Speaker 2: There's a rich racist history in Jasper County, Texas, at
Speaker 2: least that's what it seems like.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then also resilience towards that racism. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: right now, both the racism and the resilience are both
Speaker 1: there in full effect by this nineties. Still, so moving on,
Speaker 1: they left James Bird's remains, and then the three men,
Speaker 1: James Berry, Lawrence Brewer, and John King left to go
Speaker 1: to a barbecue, and James Bird's body was later found
Speaker 1: that morning by a driver who was passing by. So
Speaker 1: authorities then started to search the area, and they found
Speaker 1: a bunch of items strewn about the area belonging both
Speaker 1: to James and to his murders. They find a lighter
Speaker 1: with the word possum inscribed on it, and apparently that
Speaker 1: was King's prison nickname. They also find a wrench that
Speaker 1: has Barry's name on it, and Barry was the truck driver.
Speaker 1: So then at the end of the logging road they
Speaker 1: find an apparent scene of a fight or beating. It
Speaker 1: was like some sort of kind of indent in the
Speaker 1: grass or something like that where you could tell some
Speaker 1: sort of scuffle it happened. The grass was like matted down,
Speaker 1: and in that kind of matted area they find a
Speaker 1: cigarette lighter engraved with the words possum and also KKK,
Speaker 1: as well as another tool with Barry's name on it.
Speaker 1: And then they find three cigarette butts, beer bottles, a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of things from that truck, and then a
Speaker 1: button from James Bird shirt and his baseball caps. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're a police officer, this is a
Speaker 1: pretty obvious scene.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, this is this is a slam dunk
Speaker 3: because these guys were not very good at covering up
Speaker 3: their tracks. But it makes me wonder if they were
Speaker 3: even trying. And that's what I was saying earlier, right,
Speaker 3: It's like it seems like they definitely, or at least
Speaker 3: one of them knew what they were doing, you know,
Speaker 3: to James Bird. So I know that during this time,
Speaker 3: people in the area are starting to hear about the crime,
Speaker 3: and this man, Steve Scott, walks in and you talked
Speaker 3: about Steve Scott earlier Russia, right, the witness, the witness exactly,
Speaker 3: And again my thought goes back to somebody in that
Speaker 3: truck deliberately knew what.
Speaker 2: They were doing. They weren't trying to cover it up
Speaker 2: very much.
Speaker 3: No, they were not trying to cover it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And around that same time police also happened to stop
Speaker 2: Sean Berry for a traffic violation. So inside Sean's truck
Speaker 2: they find a crucial piece of evidence, a set of
Speaker 2: tools matching the wrench that was found at the end
Speaker 2: of the logging road. So they arrest Berry and confiscate
Speaker 2: the truck, and then they find more. They find blood
Speaker 2: spatters underneath the truck and on one of its tires,
Speaker 2: matching James Bird's DNA, and then in the truck bed
Speaker 2: they find blood on a spare tire, which is also
Speaker 2: a match. And then finally in the truck bed itself
Speaker 2: there's a rust stain forming in the pattern of a chain.
Speaker 3: Right, So there's all this evidence mounting here, and these
Speaker 3: guys are also really outspoken white supremacists.
Speaker 2: They don't hide it.
Speaker 3: They're not hiding it. It's like it's like when a
Speaker 3: you know, a gang member does a hit, and this
Speaker 3: is the biggest gang the KKK. Somebody out of the
Speaker 3: three of them is trying to make a statement.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So this goes back to your theory of
Speaker 1: it that you know, one or all of them knew
Speaker 1: what they were doing when they killed jamespur Junior. So
Speaker 1: after they arrest them, they kind of start to learn
Speaker 1: all of these things about them which prove that they
Speaker 1: very much intended to do this and had very racist
Speaker 1: leanings that would motivate them to do so. So two
Speaker 1: of these guys, Lawrence Brewer John King, according to documents,
Speaker 1: John King, who was twenty three, refused to go into
Speaker 1: a black person's home and would even leave a party
Speaker 1: if a black individual arrived at said party. Wow. And
Speaker 1: in prison he was known as quote the Exalted Cyclops
Speaker 1: of the Confederate Knights America. I mean, wow, the bell's
Speaker 1: going off. Yeah, right, So obviously that's a white supremacist gang.
Speaker 1: And then Brewer is also associated with a another white
Speaker 1: supremacy group. In prison, both of them have their bodies
Speaker 1: covered in racist tattoos, incorporating both KKK and Nazi imagery,
Speaker 1: and so understandably, the FBI quickly deems that James Burr
Speaker 1: Junior's death is a hate crime.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely right, absolutely, no doubt this is a hate crime.
Speaker 3: But I also want to point out something in their
Speaker 3: court photos, where you know, they're all cleaned up. They
Speaker 3: look perfectly normal, right, They're trying to appear perfectly normal,
Speaker 3: like ordinary guys, which makes me think of how people
Speaker 3: who commit acts of racism, I mean, from small acts
Speaker 3: to atrocious ones like this one, you know, and this
Speaker 3: was horrible, beyond horrible. They don't necessary look like TV villains.
Speaker 2: Right, but what does evil look like? Right?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: What does that look like like? I'm sure they were
Speaker 2: wearing suits that were covering up all of their racist
Speaker 2: tattoos or tatts and everything. Yeah, yeah, what do you think, Trevor.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously they can hide it if they need
Speaker 1: to for a court appearance and whatever else. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess the point maybe to be made there is that,
Speaker 1: you know, really racism can be found anywhere, and even
Speaker 1: in places you don't expect it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So shifting gears a little bit. So
Speaker 2: these three guys were all roommates. So they were roommates who,
Speaker 2: as you know you pointed out Evett, apparently could not
Speaker 2: cover up a crime to save their lives, or they
Speaker 2: were doing that on purpose. We don't really, they didn't
Speaker 2: want to, or they didn't want to. And police end
Speaker 2: up searching their apartment and still they find even more evidence. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, this is going to be a surprise to
Speaker 2: no one. But they found racist drawings and writing made
Speaker 2: by King, and more crucially, they find their clothing and
Speaker 2: their shoes that they were wearing the night that this
Speaker 2: all happened, and DNA analysis reveals that the jeans and
Speaker 2: boots worn by Barry that night were stained with blood
Speaker 2: matching James Bird Junior's DNA. And then there's another very
Speaker 2: large piece of evidence. A friend of the three men
Speaker 2: told police that the men hung out behind his trailer
Speaker 2: a lot, and when they searched that area behind the trailer,
Speaker 2: they found the twenty four foot logging chain that matched
Speaker 2: the rust imprint in Sean Berry's truck bed.
Speaker 3: Geez, god, you know, I think about this in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety eight, and I was thinking about where I was living,
Speaker 3: and I was in Oregon, and you know, my dad
Speaker 3: was living in Oregon as well. And just the fact
Speaker 3: that this was happening in nineteen ninety eight was beyond
Speaker 3: anything that we could even call brehend. You know, this
Speaker 3: was through and through torture.
Speaker 1: I do think the one maybe silver lining to this
Speaker 1: taking place in a slightly more modern context like nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight is that even though you wouldn't expect something
Speaker 1: like this to happen in this time, one thing that's
Speaker 1: different is that you're a lot more likely to see consequence. Yes, right, right,
Speaker 1: So these people are very quickly identified, they're captured, they
Speaker 1: are sent to prison, right like, They face consequences pretty fast.
Speaker 1: Whereas you know, in Jim Crow.
Speaker 5: Era that might yeah, yeah, I mean you would have
Speaker 5: had probably a very racist, all white jury police force
Speaker 5: that would have done whatever it took to see these
Speaker 5: guys to either get off or maybe even avoid getting arrested.
Speaker 3: In very true, very true, Trevor. They got on this
Speaker 3: right away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was the silver lining. And so you know,
Speaker 2: the three men are indicted together on capital murder charges.
Speaker 2: But as the trial begins, crucial cracks begin to form
Speaker 2: between the three roommates. Cracks that would impact the rest
Speaker 2: of their lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets a little bit dramatic, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that right after we take another quick break.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So the trial for the lynching of James Bird Junior
Speaker 3: begins February nineteen ninety nine, and one of the first
Speaker 3: questions asked I have to ask you this, Trevor, is
Speaker 3: why can you take us through this one? I mean,
Speaker 3: we know that they're white supremacists, but what moved them
Speaker 3: to commit this heinous? Heinous act?
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I am never going to try and
Speaker 1: empathize or get in the mind of a violent, murderous racist,
Speaker 1: but we do know like what they were planning based
Speaker 1: off of their writings and things that they had told
Speaker 1: other people. So those writings that they found in John
Speaker 1: King's apartment were very important, according to the prosecution. They
Speaker 1: included plans for a new hate group that he was
Speaker 1: trying to form and recruit for. So the murder was
Speaker 1: supposedly his big sort of dramatic act that he would
Speaker 1: use to attract media attention and bring in new members
Speaker 1: who would want to join his group.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Oh so gross. So this jury had something else to consider.
Speaker 2: So Sean Berry, the roommate of these two write supremacists
Speaker 2: and the man who owned the pickup truck that dragged
Speaker 2: James Bird Junior. He had made a statement to police,
Speaker 2: and here's what he said, that John King had not
Speaker 2: wanted to pick up James Bird because he was black,
Speaker 2: but then King changed his mind. So Barry said that
Speaker 2: King was the one who drove the truck to that
Speaker 2: isolated area, and that Brewer and King, not him, were
Speaker 2: the ones who got out and began beating Bird, eventually
Speaker 2: chaining him to the back of the truck.
Speaker 3: So he puts it all on the other two right,
Speaker 3: right as a bystander. Okay, yeah, right, what a great friend.
Speaker 3: But this just reminds me, and we can go back
Speaker 3: to the Matthew Shepherd case. How one of his two killers,
Speaker 3: which was Russell Henderson, basically said it was the other guy.
Speaker 3: So it's the same thing happening all over again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so somebody else throwing them under the.
Speaker 3: Bus, right, but they're all responsible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that said apparently in this case. You know,
Speaker 1: Sean Berry is supposedly the only one who's not like
Speaker 1: a vowed white supremacist, right, most people don't see him
Speaker 1: that way. He doesn't have any sort of weird letters
Speaker 1: or plans or manifestos to like start a white supremacist
Speaker 1: group like the other guys do. So it's possible somehow
Speaker 1: he just ended up along for the ride the night
Speaker 1: this night, and you know, the other two took the
Speaker 1: lead in the violence, you know, and just kind of
Speaker 1: going back to Matthew Shepherd, I mean, that was kind
Speaker 1: of a thing for real that night that Aaron McKinney
Speaker 1: was the one calling the shots, so to speak, right, right,
Speaker 1: And I think maybe that is actually a thing that
Speaker 1: happens in these kind of group dynamics where there's this
Speaker 1: sort of you know, group violence that takes place where
Speaker 1: one or two people are the ones who are really
Speaker 1: the driving aggressors, if you will, right, right, So, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's impossible, but it definitely starts to create
Speaker 1: rifts in this group as a result. Right.
Speaker 2: And to me, though, like I mean, I think we
Speaker 2: can all three agree that it doesn't make him any
Speaker 2: less guilty because he let it happen, right, But yes,
Speaker 2: you're right, like he wasn't the you know, white supremacist
Speaker 2: that we know of, but he didn't stop it. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he might have made this statement, but he didn't do
Speaker 2: anything to stop it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, Also keep in mind it was his truck, right.
Speaker 2: Right, right, that bears his responsibility and his liability, right.
Speaker 1: And I mean generally though, it suggest that he was
Speaker 1: the one driving, you know, even if he says he wasn't.
Speaker 3: Right, but he so knew James too.
Speaker 2: That's probably why James felt comfortable getting in that truck.
Speaker 3: Hello, That's what I'm saying. You know, why would he
Speaker 3: get into a truck on a dark road walking home
Speaker 3: if he didn't know the people.
Speaker 2: With three white men in Jasper, Texas.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not like he's unaware of racial prejudice and
Speaker 3: where he's living, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Barry's a weird character in the story because he
Speaker 1: I mean, he knew what they were going to do
Speaker 1: and he went along with it anyways, So right, I
Speaker 1: don't know, it seems like he put James Bird Junior
Speaker 1: in harm's way, either neglectfully or intentionally. And at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I mean, I doubt anybody here
Speaker 1: has a ton of sympathy for him or where he
Speaker 1: ends up.
Speaker 2: No, I'm sorry, I knew not.
Speaker 3: I was watching this documentary and it's called The Life
Speaker 3: and tragic death of James Bird, and it was on
Speaker 3: Amazon Prime and one of the women you know, from
Speaker 3: that community in Jasper was being interviewed. She knew the
Speaker 3: family very well, and she said that, you know, James,
Speaker 3: you know, was likable. He didn't have anybody that hated him.
Speaker 3: And she felt like if it would have been anybody
Speaker 3: black like walking the streets that night, that it possibly
Speaker 3: could have happened. She said, it could have happened to me,
Speaker 3: you know, and that was that was interesting. So when
Speaker 3: we go back to you know, white supremacist, you know,
Speaker 3: I think that there is that possibility that they were
Speaker 3: just you know, or the other guy was just out
Speaker 3: to pick up a black person and do this to them,
Speaker 3: and James Bird happened to be in the wrong place
Speaker 3: at the wrong time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about the trial. So the jury
Speaker 1: heard from a forensic pathologist with some kind of chilling testimony,
Speaker 1: And if you're listening, we're about to get into some
Speaker 1: gruesome details of the murder itself. So if you are
Speaker 1: sensitive to that sort of thing, I'd recommend you skip
Speaker 1: ahead about thirty to forty five seconds. So doctor Thomas J.
Speaker 1: Brown testified that James Bird Junior was indeed alive while
Speaker 1: being dragged behind the pickup truck, and that he was
Speaker 1: quote suffering horribly and vainly trying to save himself as
Speaker 1: he was dragged along by the chain attached to his ankles,
Speaker 1: and so parts of his body were also so severely
Speaker 1: mutilated from the dragging that they were ground to the bone,
Speaker 1: and James apparently felt every second of it because he
Speaker 1: was still alive. So doctor Brown told the court that, quote,
Speaker 1: it is my opinion that mister Bird was alive up
Speaker 1: until the point that he hit the culvert. He was
Speaker 1: alive when the head, shoulder, and right arm were separated. Wow.
Speaker 1: So of course that happened when he hit the colvert,
Speaker 1: which is basically just like a roadside ditch, about halfway
Speaker 1: through that three mile ordeal, and then he was essentially
Speaker 1: kind of bisected at that point.
Speaker 3: It's a lot, yeah, you know, and like I said earlier,
Speaker 3: I mean, he was fighting for his life until he
Speaker 3: couldn't anymore.
Speaker 2: I mean before we dove into this case, you know.
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, we learned a little bit about
Speaker 2: it when we did the Matthew Shepherd episode. But all
Speaker 2: I had ever heard, like a news or Metea or
Speaker 2: anything was that. You know, James Bird Junior was dragged
Speaker 2: behind a truck and decapitated, and it's like, it's so
Speaker 2: much worse than that. And to think that someone or
Speaker 2: some people could do that just because of the color
Speaker 2: of his skin makes me sick to my stomach. And
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's why we're here. We're trying to
Speaker 2: shine a light on that darkness. But who HiT's a
Speaker 2: lot to stomach, It's a whole lot to stomach. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: John King is unrepentant, and police detectives say that he
Speaker 2: had spent his time in jail writing racist graffiti and
Speaker 2: he even wrote on his door the words and this
Speaker 2: is a quote, Sean Berry is a snitch ash trader
Speaker 2: end quote. He also writes a note to Brewer in
Speaker 2: prison that ends up getting intercepted, and in this note
Speaker 2: he says he's proud of the crime, although he realized
Speaker 2: he quote might have to die for it end quote.
Speaker 3: He never truly confessed though, right.
Speaker 1: No, this was not a confession, and he didn't testify
Speaker 1: at the nineteen ninety nine trial, although in a letter
Speaker 1: to the press he put a bunch of things on
Speaker 1: Sean Berry claiming that Barry picked up Bird to buy
Speaker 1: steroids from him, and that Barry then dropped King and
Speaker 1: Brewer off at their apartment and then left again with Bird,
Speaker 1: just the two of them. In this letter, he claims
Speaker 1: that he and Brewer are being stereotyped for quote the
Speaker 1: pride we openly express for our race end quote. So yeah,
Speaker 1: he pleads not guilty in the trial, although that note
Speaker 1: is bizarre, but the one about Sean Berry not making
Speaker 1: any sense. Nothing in the alibis of all three men
Speaker 1: would suggest that any of that information is true. And
Speaker 1: then the note suggesting that he's going to have to
Speaker 1: die for the crime that he did is somehow not
Speaker 1: considered a confession, but I don't know what It's some
Speaker 1: interesting stuff going on. Still, though the three of them
Speaker 1: are charged with murder, and King and Brewer get death sentences.
Speaker 1: Both were executed by a lethal injection, Brewer in twenty
Speaker 1: eleven and King in twenty nineteen. Barry, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: was sentenced to life in prison and his parole is
Speaker 1: set for twenty thirty eight. One interesting thing is that
Speaker 1: many of James Burge Junior's family members were opposed to
Speaker 1: the death sentences. They did not want his murders to
Speaker 1: be killed by lethal injection. And they were very outspoken
Speaker 1: about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were, and they are. And not only were
Speaker 2: they opposed, James's son actively campaigned against his father's murder
Speaker 2: is receiving the death penalty, and his daughter, Renee and
Speaker 2: other family members denounced it so loudly. And in twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: after Brewer was executed, James's sister, Betty Boehner told CNN
Speaker 2: that she quote forgave him thirteen years ago end quote.
Speaker 2: At this time, James's son actually joined anti execution protests, saying, quote,
Speaker 2: you can't fight murder with murder. That's pretty amazing that
Speaker 2: their family is that forgiving, in that passionate about trying
Speaker 2: to save lives, even when their their father's life was
Speaker 2: taken from them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if I was going through that sort
Speaker 1: of grief, I don't know if I'd have that sort
Speaker 1: of you know, levelheadedness or not. You know, obviously, like
Speaker 1: my brain says, like, you know, capital punishment is bad,
Speaker 1: But if I was actually going through that, like my
Speaker 1: emotions would be like screaming at me to like get
Speaker 1: revenge essentially, you know, right, So it's pretty fun nominal
Speaker 1: that they can get past that in this moment.
Speaker 3: I just have to say one thing. You know, his
Speaker 3: family was very deep in the church, and I think
Speaker 3: their faith and their religion and God, you know, was
Speaker 3: a huge thing in this because you know, you can't
Speaker 3: fight hate with hate, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. It's interesting. In two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, which is about five years after their
Speaker 1: dad's murder, James Bird's son and daughter actually went to
Speaker 1: go meet Sean Berry in prison and talk to him
Speaker 1: about their dad and the murder and everything that went down.
Speaker 1: So whereber Sean Berry's in prison for life at this point,
Speaker 1: He's probably not getting executed, but he does have parole
Speaker 1: in like fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't seem like it's that far away. Ross
Speaker 2: Bird said that he told Sean Berry quote, you should
Speaker 2: have helped end quote. And they ended up praying together,
Speaker 2: and he said, quote when I walked in the building,
Speaker 2: that's the first thing he did. He wanted to pray.
Speaker 2: And you know, I respect him for that. I respect
Speaker 2: him for saying that he was sorry. End quote.
Speaker 3: That's such a powerful act of forgiveness. The Bird family
Speaker 3: has endured such immense pain. Again, we can't even comprehend,
Speaker 3: you know, but to walk into that prison and pray
Speaker 3: with this man is you know, that is the silver lining.
Speaker 3: And forgive and forgive and forgive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, another silver lining that came from this horrible crime.
Speaker 2: You know, as we talked about in the Matthew Shepherd episode.
Speaker 2: In October of two thousand and nine, then President Barack
Speaker 2: Obama signed the Matthew Shepherd and James Bird Junior Hate
Speaker 2: Crimes Prevention Act into federal law, and this law expanded
Speaker 2: hate crime legislation to also include crimes based on sexual orientation,
Speaker 2: gender identity, or disability.
Speaker 3: Also, in Jasper, Texas, they had a graveyard that was
Speaker 3: still segregated back then, and after this horrific act happened,
Speaker 3: they took down that fence and so there was no
Speaker 3: more division between white and black.
Speaker 2: So that was that was huge as well. That's absolutely beautiful,
Speaker 2: and that brings us to this week's emua, our final
Speaker 2: message of hope and healing. We'd like to dedicate this
Speaker 2: week's emua to the ohana or the family of James
Speaker 2: Bird Junior. In the years since her father's unjust death.
Speaker 2: One of James's daughter's Renee Mullins has become an advocate
Speaker 2: for hate crimes legislation, and she and her brother, Ross
Speaker 2: Bird are still fighting the death penalty even in cases
Speaker 2: that feel unforgivable. Also, James's other daughter, Jamie, has become
Speaker 2: a police officer in Houston, Texas and has written a
Speaker 2: book titled Triumph Over Tragedy.
Speaker 3: It is said that when you hold on to bitterness
Speaker 3: and anger, those emotions only end up turning against you
Speaker 3: and against all odds. James Byrd's family they found fortitude,
Speaker 3: and they found a grace that turned their sorrow into
Speaker 3: a fight for change, and that source of that fight
Speaker 3: is love and forgiveness.
Speaker 2: This horrific murder never should have happened. They should not
Speaker 2: have lost their father, their brother, their son, their friend.
Speaker 2: But they have taken that loss and that hurt and
Speaker 2: turned it into something so beautiful and so much larger
Speaker 2: than themselves. And for this we honor them on and upward.
Speaker 2: Em Emua.
Speaker 3: Well, that is our show for today, and we'd love
Speaker 3: to hear what you thought about today's discussion And if
Speaker 3: there is a case you'd like us to cover, find
Speaker 3: us on social media or email us at Facingevil Pod
Speaker 3: at Tenderfoot dot tv and one request. If you haven't already,
Speaker 3: please find us on iTunes and give us a review
Speaker 3: and a good rating. If you like what we do,
Speaker 3: your support is always cherished until next time.
Speaker 2: Aloha.
Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and tenderfoot TV.
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Paccuerero in a Vet Schintila,
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick, and Alex Williams, our executive producers on behalf
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald
Speaker 1: albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Dafrico.
Speaker 1: Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on
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