Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys putting.
Speaker 2: On here today?
Speaker 3: You're not interested in Armed now?
Speaker 4: No, look, we're going to do this thing.
Speaker 3: We're going to have a conversation.
Speaker 1: Hey, film spotters. You know this movie is one of
Speaker 1: my all time favorites, one that if it was up
Speaker 1: to me, I'd put in the Film Spotting Pantheon, though
Speaker 1: I don't think it will ever get there. It is
Speaker 1: turning twenty five. Cameron Crows Almost Famous. Back in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: we gave it the sacred cow treatment. I think it
Speaker 1: was in honor of Stephen Heyden's book coming out, a
Speaker 1: book about classic rock. So we decided to talk about
Speaker 1: this film and also do our top five classic rock
Speaker 1: moments and movies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a fun one to put together. And
Speaker 5: Almost Famous a great movie to revisit. I don't remember
Speaker 5: if I blocked any sort of proposal to put it
Speaker 5: in the pantheon, but it was fun to take another
Speaker 5: look at Almost Famous. And you know the archive, the
Speaker 5: Film Spotting archive, we have reviews like this one. We
Speaker 5: have top fives, like the Classic Rock Top five, and
Speaker 5: all sorts of stuff going all the way back to
Speaker 5: two thousand and five, and to get access to those shows,
Speaker 5: those lists, those reviews. You should become a Film Spotting
Speaker 5: Family member. That's one of the benefits you get by
Speaker 5: being a member of the Film Spotting Family. You can
Speaker 5: learn about all those details over at film spottingfamily dot com.
Speaker 5: For now from June twenty eighteen, here is that Sacred
Speaker 5: Cow review of Almost Famous.
Speaker 6: Now for you with what band Oh, I'm here to
Speaker 6: interview Black Sabbath.
Speaker 1: I'm a journalist.
Speaker 7: I'm not not a you know, no, A what.
Speaker 4: No A what?
Speaker 8: Not a groupie.
Speaker 3: We are not groupies.
Speaker 1: This is Penny Lane Man.
Speaker 7: Show some respect.
Speaker 3: Groupies sleep with rock stars because they want to be
Speaker 3: near someone famous. We're here because of the music. We
Speaker 3: are band aids. She used to art a school for
Speaker 3: band names. We don't have intercourse with these guys. We
Speaker 3: support the music, We inspire the music. We're here because
Speaker 3: of the music.
Speaker 8: Mark Bolin broke her heart. Man, it's famous.
Speaker 7: It's a long story.
Speaker 1: In a Washington Post interview just prior to the release
Speaker 1: of Almost Famous, the film's writer, director and inspiration Cameron
Speaker 1: Crowe recounts a story about David Bowie guitarist Mick Ronson,
Speaker 1: who had died shortly before the movie started production. In
Speaker 1: a deathbed conversation, Ronson was asked how it felt to
Speaker 1: be at ground zero of the decadence in rock. It
Speaker 1: was a very loving time and a very naive time,
Speaker 1: or at least it was to me, Ronson explained, And
Speaker 1: I just thought that was profound. Crow said. Even the
Speaker 1: guys who were playing glitter rock, which was so subversive,
Speaker 1: had a lack of irony and cynicism about it that
Speaker 1: today would be point. But the whole global change in
Speaker 1: rock cool being a mass concept was still around the corner,
Speaker 1: so it was still a little more personal. And all
Speaker 1: I can say is passionately naive, and I really wanted
Speaker 1: to catch that. Passionately naive is pretty much the best
Speaker 1: way to describe most Cameron Crowe characters. I'm thinking here
Speaker 1: of fewer clients, less money, Jerry Maguire and I don't
Speaker 1: want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as
Speaker 1: a career. Lloyd Dobbler and say anything all this negative
Speaker 1: energy just makes me stronger. Cliff Ponsier and aspiring supertrained architects,
Speaker 1: Steve Dunn and singles and what about pretty much the
Speaker 1: entire cast of the Crow written Amy Heckerling directed Fast
Speaker 1: times at Ridgemont High. We, of course, remember all I
Speaker 1: need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine,
Speaker 1: Jeff Spacoli, And well, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1: Go to this strange girl in my biology class and
Speaker 1: say hello, I'd like you to take your clothes off
Speaker 1: and jump on me. Mark Ratner. So that's one way
Speaker 1: into Almost Famous. If you can relate to Crowe's collection
Speaker 1: of well meaning, idealistic misfits, then you'll surely appreciate his
Speaker 1: almost famous stand in fifteen year old William Miller, who
Speaker 1: lands an assignment to cover the up and coming band
Speaker 1: Stillwater on tour for Rolling Stone, just as Crow himself
Speaker 1: did in the early seventies writing about the Allman Brothers,
Speaker 1: led Zeppelin and many others. But there are other ways,
Speaker 1: in lots of them, according to film spoting listener Jim
Speaker 1: Pelini and Beth Page, New York, who rates Almost Famous
Speaker 1: as his favorite Crow movie.
Speaker 9: And really, I think that's because its script is layered
Speaker 9: with just multiple very well developed storylines that Crow certainly
Speaker 9: must have culled from his own experience, and it really
Speaker 9: shows in a very rich screenplay. I think you know,
Speaker 9: at one end of the film. You've got the film
Speaker 9: paying a lot of attention to the role of criticism
Speaker 9: in music and criticism in art in general. It has
Speaker 9: a lot of effective biopic elements, focusing on Lester Bangs
Speaker 9: and the founding staff at Rolling Stone, you know. Right
Speaker 9: in the center, you've got kind of the interpersonal conflict
Speaker 9: with a professional touring rock band that's kind of the
Speaker 9: bedrock of the story, and this ripped and then yet
Speaker 9: it still has time for a very authentic storyline about
Speaker 9: a mother trying to keep her family together despite I
Speaker 9: guess you'd call it the lore of the seventies counterculture.
Speaker 9: And on the top of all that, you've got Crow
Speaker 9: very effectively conveying the you know, absolute reverie and bliss
Speaker 9: of live performance, you know, on stage and on hotel
Speaker 9: rooms and as you know, on a bus. Of all
Speaker 9: those lines, you know, which are really fleshed out beautifully
Speaker 9: in the film, but to me, there's one that kind
Speaker 9: of floats above the rest, and that's the one that
Speaker 9: focuses on the young you know, William Miller learning how
Speaker 9: to I guess you know, love a woman for the
Speaker 9: first time and navigating the emotion sparked by that experience
Speaker 9: which is obviously new to him. It's my favorite part
Speaker 9: of the movie, and I really appreciate you guys doing
Speaker 9: a review on it. It's about time. It's a great one.
Speaker 1: Take care, guys, Josh. We've never talked about Almost Famous,
Speaker 1: not in any detail, but I know you are a fan,
Speaker 1: or at least you were a fan on initial review.
Speaker 1: After chasing you around Chicagoland screening rooms for four days,
Speaker 1: I've pinned you down. The mics are live, the tape
Speaker 1: is rolling. What speaks to you, the attention to criticism,
Speaker 1: the highs and lows of life on the road, the
Speaker 1: family dynamic, the love story, as romantically one sided as
Speaker 1: it may be, the passionate naivete of the movie's young protagonist,
Speaker 1: and his belief in the power of music, or something
Speaker 1: else entirely. In other words, what do you love about
Speaker 1: Almost Famous?
Speaker 5: Well, I hope we can talk about all those things,
Speaker 5: because it's all good stuff in this really, really good
Speaker 5: movie that does still hold up. I mean, anything with
Speaker 5: this amount of optimism is going to look a little
Speaker 5: hokier with each passing year. But I still don't think
Speaker 5: I would really apply that word sure to this movie.
Speaker 5: A quaintness that grows talking of Yeah, it's quainter more
Speaker 5: quaint each time we revisit it in a few years
Speaker 5: have passed, and maybe we've seen a little bit more
Speaker 5: about the world and become more cynical ourselves. What did
Speaker 5: I love about almost famous on this revisit, Can I
Speaker 5: just say Patrick Fuget's face? Yeah, I mean, and that's
Speaker 5: something keep part. It's something that was striking initially. Who
Speaker 5: is this kid? Where did he find him? How he
Speaker 5: works so perfectly, the fact that he has that it's
Speaker 5: not really that he's blushing, but it's almost like he's
Speaker 5: been sleeping on a pillow on one side for a
Speaker 5: while and there's just still a little color there that
Speaker 5: wasn't there before. That changes throughout the film. He always
Speaker 5: seems to be a little flushed about something, and when
Speaker 5: he looks at these rock stars, when he waits for
Speaker 5: their answer to his questions, that face. So I have
Speaker 5: a new nephew about a month old, Gideon Eno Coots
Speaker 5: parents are listeners to the show, so first time shout
Speaker 5: out to Nagan. Yeah, well ties in with the music
Speaker 5: theme here, And when I look into Gideon's face, we
Speaker 5: just saw him over the weekend. He looks older and
Speaker 5: more wise and more knowing than Patrick.
Speaker 10: Fuget in this movie because the eyes and the awe,
Speaker 10: but also just realizing for the first time what life
Speaker 10: could be, which is something that seems to be happening
Speaker 10: to him in this movie.
Speaker 1: I he's not looking at you like Fuget looks at
Speaker 1: Billy kruddup. Is he Josh? I hope not. No, No,
Speaker 1: you don't have that kind of wisdom to disciss.
Speaker 5: Not making that comparison. But it is really something what
Speaker 5: Fuget brings that's got to work, right. I talked about
Speaker 5: that with Solo and aldn Aaron Reich that he had
Speaker 5: to work if the movie was going to soar. Fuget
Speaker 5: had to work here if Almost Famous was going to soar,
Speaker 5: and it absolutely does, and a lot of it has
Speaker 5: to do with him. I want, I do want to
Speaker 5: get into some of that other stuff. I think, probably
Speaker 5: secondarily stuff that you can more chew on and think
Speaker 5: about and maybe we can discuss, is its attention to criticism,
Speaker 5: and in particular the critics relationship to the creators as
Speaker 5: opposed to their art. That's obviously at the heart of
Speaker 5: this film. But here I've been doing something somewhat in
Speaker 5: the same arena for a number more years since I
Speaker 5: first saw Almost Famous, and that's something that's becoming only
Speaker 5: more complicated. So I'm curious to hear how that struck
Speaker 5: you as well. Yeah, you know just where things are,
Speaker 5: especially as you do this more than me. But interview
Speaker 5: filmmakers from the show, and we know filmmakers who follow
Speaker 5: the show closely and listen on occasion to what we
Speaker 5: have to say about their movies, and that is all
Speaker 5: kind of like it's always kind of given me the
Speaker 5: willies a little bit, sure, and seeing Almost Famous dig
Speaker 5: into those complications did that more so in a way
Speaker 5: that was good and challenging and thought provoking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of the day, I'm a fan,
Speaker 1: I'm a movie fan, and I'm a fan of pretty
Speaker 1: much everybody who I've ever done an interview with for
Speaker 1: this show, and that line potentially crossing that line into
Speaker 1: exposing your fandom too much, not being seen as a professional,
Speaker 1: or just appearing uncool in front of them whatever that means,
Speaker 1: which is so germane to this movie. That is something
Speaker 1: that obviously I struggle with. I feel a lot like
Speaker 1: William Miller in those situations and to your point about
Speaker 1: fugutz performance. I appreciated it the first time I saw
Speaker 1: this movie, but that was something on rewatch, and I
Speaker 1: don't know believe it or not as much as I
Speaker 1: love this movie as much as I've said this before.
Speaker 1: I think it came up recently that I have the
Speaker 1: shot from the end of this movie with the microphone
Speaker 1: as my avatar. It has been my avatar since I
Speaker 1: saw this film pretty much and avatar has existed. I
Speaker 1: have the shot of Philis Seymour, Hoffman and Fuget walking
Speaker 1: up that hill talking about criticism after the radio station
Speaker 1: scene where they meet, and almost famous as our header
Speaker 1: on our Facebook page and on Twitter. So I've always
Speaker 1: been enamored with this film and what this film is about,
Speaker 1: and yet I don't think I've ever watched it in
Speaker 1: its entirety since I saw it in the theater in
Speaker 1: two thousand and one. I've maybe caught scenes here and there.
Speaker 1: So I really was kind of watching it again for
Speaker 1: the first time, and yet I felt like I knew
Speaker 1: it so well. Just so many scenes in so many
Speaker 1: lines were ingrained in my memory. And his performance is
Speaker 1: a standout element of this movie, and he was a newcomer.
Speaker 1: I think this is his first real feature film, his
Speaker 1: first major project anyway, And that over enthusiasm when he
Speaker 1: is walking out of that first concert scene and he
Speaker 1: knows everybody's names, and he can't stop himself from trying
Speaker 1: to show that he fits it right, right, that he's
Speaker 1: part of the group. Now, he's part of this larger group,
Speaker 1: not just that he's attached to Stillwater in anyway, which
Speaker 1: at this point he isn't, but he thinks he's now
Speaker 1: part of this collective, this backstage musical life. And he
Speaker 1: insists on saying hi and saying everyone's name, just as
Speaker 1: if he's even proving to himself, well, this is really happening.
Speaker 1: I'm part of this and I know these people. And
Speaker 1: then the way Sapphire comes up Rusa Balk and kisses
Speaker 1: him and calms him down. His facial reaction there is magic.
Speaker 1: His reaction when Philip Seymour Hoffman says to him, go
Speaker 1: be a lawyer, which we know his mom has been
Speaker 1: instructing him to do earlier in the film. That look
Speaker 1: on his face not just of disillusionment, but as if
Speaker 1: Daggers Yeah thrush rushed through his heart in that moment
Speaker 1: it's great. So that look of despair, he just captures
Speaker 1: it perfectly.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you mentioned those specific moments, because I didn't
Speaker 5: want to imply that it was just how he looks
Speaker 5: that makes this role so great. It is in the performance.
Speaker 5: And one other thing he adds in additional all those
Speaker 5: things you said, is that when he's caught not being cool,
Speaker 5: he doesn't even have the coolness to try to cover
Speaker 5: it up. He always cops to his uncoolness immediately, and that,
Speaker 5: of course just makes him seem more vulnerable and more rendearing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does.
Speaker 9: So.
Speaker 1: I thought a lot about as soon as I finished
Speaker 1: this rewatch, why do I love this film? And before
Speaker 1: I get into some of those reasons, I do have
Speaker 1: to say that Almost Famous might be in a very
Speaker 1: small category of movies for me that I unabashedly think
Speaker 1: are great, even though I'm not convinced it's a great movie. Okay,
Speaker 1: there are problems I have with the film, and we'll
Speaker 1: discuss those problems. There are ways in which I think
Speaker 1: Cameron Crow sabotages his own material, unfortunately, but there's so
Speaker 1: much I do adore, and I think there are some
Speaker 1: obvious things we can point to you touched on some
Speaker 1: of this. It combines my primary interests movies. It's a
Speaker 1: movie after all music, which I've noted many times. But
Speaker 1: I've been playing in bands since I was twelve years
Speaker 1: old and played instruments, so music's always been near and
Speaker 1: dear to me. And of course criticism what we do
Speaker 1: or try to do here on the show. And it's
Speaker 1: a movie that is about the consideration of art and
Speaker 1: the power it has and the place that it has.
Speaker 1: I've already alluded to this. I'm a card carrying member
Speaker 1: of the uncool. I do feel like even when I'm
Speaker 1: in these circles, and sometimes you can convince yourself that
Speaker 1: when you hang around certain people, certain filmmakers a little
Speaker 1: bit or whatever, you feel like you're in that circle.
Speaker 1: You feel just like William Miller backstage, like you're part
Speaker 1: of the gang. You're not part of the gang. So
Speaker 1: even when you are an insider, I often feel like
Speaker 1: the outsider. And it's a movie fundamentally, like all coming
Speaker 1: of age movies are about figuring it out, about gaining
Speaker 1: experience about wisdom, and we get to gain that experience
Speaker 1: in wisdom through William Miller in the film. And I
Speaker 1: think just overall the fact that it's the type of
Speaker 1: film that gives you a scene like the one when
Speaker 1: Zoey Deschanel as Anita says, this song is why I'm
Speaker 1: leaving home. She can't articulate to her mother why she's leaving.
Speaker 5: Which is exactly what drives her mother nuts about it. Right,
Speaker 5: Why do we.
Speaker 1: Have Simon, Simon and Garfunkle. They can express it. They
Speaker 1: can express something that we in our everyday lives simply cannot.
Speaker 1: And the fact that this movie and these characters have
Speaker 1: that type of reverence for music is something that I
Speaker 1: think a lot of us just can't help but too
Speaker 1: attached to. And I do love that scene in particular
Speaker 1: the way that it starts out as diegetic music. It's
Speaker 1: there in the scene she puts it on the record
Speaker 1: player and we're hearing it, But then that cut to
Speaker 1: them actually packing up the car. Now it's non diegetic.
Speaker 1: Now it's Crow playing it over the scene as they
Speaker 1: do head off, just like the protagonists in that great
Speaker 1: Simon and Garfunkle too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that was one of the things that
Speaker 5: impressed me more about the craft on this rewatch is
Speaker 5: the interweaving of the music not only diegetic and non diegetic,
Speaker 5: but just what songs he's going to use, when, what
Speaker 5: portions of songs, so that you don't get a lot
Speaker 5: of just here's the beginning of the song for the
Speaker 5: beginning of this scene, and when this scene ends, will
Speaker 5: come to a nice ending point.
Speaker 1: In this song.
Speaker 5: You know, it's much more very well constructed, complicated and
Speaker 5: layered than that. I did find it, even as I'm
Speaker 5: praising that sort of construction, shaggier and scruffier than I remembered.
Speaker 5: And maybe that's going to point to some of the
Speaker 5: issues you had where the scenes altogether didn't quite flow
Speaker 5: as seamlessly as I remembered in my mind, which, of
Speaker 5: course you remember beloved movies like this as Greatest Hits elements,
Speaker 5: and it's sort of like maybe when you stumble across
Speaker 5: that track on the Greatest Hits album and you're so,
Speaker 5: I don't know why that's in there. There were maybe
Speaker 5: a few moments where you're like, oh, I've forgot this
Speaker 5: was in almost famous in general. I forgot there was
Speaker 5: this much. Francis McDorman, Yes, I think realization, Yeah, I
Speaker 5: mean it's a I remember it being a through line
Speaker 5: how his mother felt and the connection to her. But
Speaker 5: I didn't remember it being this good, including their scenes
Speaker 5: that are always talked about, like when she's on the
Speaker 5: phone with Russell and spins him around in an instant,
Speaker 5: But how about the one where she's exasperated at the
Speaker 5: end of her rope with William and I forget exactly
Speaker 5: what they're discussing at that point, but her response finally
Speaker 5: when she realizes he's gone, that there's nothing she can
Speaker 5: do about.
Speaker 1: This story, she breaks down. Actually at the end of
Speaker 1: the scene.
Speaker 5: What she says, this is what I remember. Her response
Speaker 5: is not to condemn him, not to give him anger,
Speaker 5: not to give him a final warning. It's to say
Speaker 5: I love you, yes, And she says it in a
Speaker 5: way that's not necessarily saying I'm now on board with
Speaker 5: this or you've convinced me otherwise. She hasn't shifted in anything,
Speaker 5: including her love for him, and that's what she decides
Speaker 5: to leave with. So she's amazing. And the other element
Speaker 5: I thought there was way more Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and that shows you how iconic has scenes. Yeah, right,
Speaker 5: And the way that you give Philip Seymour Hoffman four
Speaker 5: minutes and he'll make it feel like you just watched
Speaker 5: a feature.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I really was struck by that as well, But
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I had a complete reappreciation for Francis
Speaker 1: mcdorman's performance and just how Cameron Crowe uses that character.
Speaker 1: I actually did watch this with Holden and Sophie, my
Speaker 1: two oldest kids, and I was very gratified at the
Speaker 1: end of the film that they enjoyed it. They both
Speaker 1: enjoyed it quite a bit. Holden felt like he could
Speaker 1: relate to William Miller, even though he certainly doesn't have
Speaker 1: any sense of his appreciation for music, especially rock music.
Speaker 1: But the biggest change in me from that time I
Speaker 1: saw it in two thousand and one is I had
Speaker 1: so much more sympathy for the mom. I mainly saw
Speaker 1: her as comedy. It was there for comedic relief, and
Speaker 1: those scenes still are or maybe the funniest scenes in
Speaker 1: the movie anything with her and da Chanel and with
Speaker 1: Patrick Fugue. But my kids they didn't see her as
Speaker 1: a villain exactly watching the movie, but on that Miller spectrum,
Speaker 1: from William who sees his mom as overwhelming but admirable
Speaker 1: and well intentioned, to Anita who sees her as soul
Speaker 1: crushingly overbearing. My kids saw her as closer to Anita,
Speaker 1: and I think the younger you are, you probably see
Speaker 1: her that way. Now as a parent, which I was
Speaker 1: not in two thousand and one, I'm way more in
Speaker 1: tune with that character and her fears. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's the exact same scene you're thinking of
Speaker 1: or not, but I'd completely forgotten about the one where
Speaker 1: she is talking to William. It's one of the hallway scenes.
Speaker 1: It's not the one where Russell gets on. It's the
Speaker 1: one where they introduced the new girl who says she's
Speaker 1: correct orient or whatever, and William can't hear what his
Speaker 1: mom's saying, and she's saying, I love you. And the
Speaker 1: way she breaks down at the end of that scene,
Speaker 1: camera Crow gives her a moment to herself, This mom
Speaker 1: who is emotional but who's otherwise had such kind of
Speaker 1: steely resolve. Actually with Anita in that moment she's just
Speaker 1: finally done. That really resonated with me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do remember thinking of her as comic relief
Speaker 5: because of those highlight scenes, also as being well you
Speaker 5: had to have her to show where William was from. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but this drops us. This speaks to the richness of
Speaker 5: the writing in terms of all of these characters, so
Speaker 5: many characters, how Crow is able to juggle them, give
Speaker 5: them each their own narratives within William's experience, which is
Speaker 5: obviously the driving force, and have us feel like we're invested.
Speaker 5: We're just as invested in how his mom is experiencing, Yes,
Speaker 5: this journey he's on, almost as much as we're invested
Speaker 5: in William herself.
Speaker 1: Some of those lines too. On the phone, when she's
Speaker 1: telling Russell, now, go do your best, be bold, she's
Speaker 1: quoting good to and you've been kissing she knows Anita's
Speaker 1: been kissing Anita telling her feck you, and the way
Speaker 1: she says hey in response to that is so great.
Speaker 1: And the other really good McDorman moment, though there are
Speaker 1: so many we could point to, when the woman on
Speaker 1: the phone Freus a balk I think answers the phone
Speaker 1: in the room and she says, is this Maryanne with
Speaker 1: the pot and they cut back to McDorman and she
Speaker 1: just closes her eyes. It's just a very subtle close
Speaker 1: of the eyes. It's everything she feared could be happening
Speaker 1: has now been realized. In that moment with just that
Speaker 1: one line, all those moments between the family, I really
Speaker 1: do think our gold and extremely funny. I even love
Speaker 1: the touch. And of course it's all about the details
Speaker 1: because it's Crow's real life, and whether he embellished this
Speaker 1: or not, it seems like one of those elements that
Speaker 1: had to be authentic. The family whistle, right the way
Speaker 1: that she sends him off to that Black Sabbath concert
Speaker 1: and says look for me later and you know, if
Speaker 1: we can't find each other the whistle, and later in
Speaker 1: the film when he's walking away from Penny Lane, we
Speaker 1: actually do hear that whistle she is calling for him
Speaker 1: to come back to the car. There are some really
Speaker 1: nice moments too that we get visually from Crow in
Speaker 1: this movie that I wasn't aware of the first time
Speaker 1: I saw. There's some symmetry in some of his shot choices.
Speaker 1: He likes to use that track forward when Anita is
Speaker 1: looking at him by the car before she goes and
Speaker 1: we get that close up one day You'll be cool,
Speaker 1: and that's echoed then in that shot of William's eyes
Speaker 1: close up when we get some of that later between
Speaker 1: him and Penny Lane, of course played by Kate Hudson,
Speaker 1: who we haven't really talked about here yet, And the
Speaker 1: love triangle shot is something he uses at least two times,
Speaker 1: maybe three times. One of them is when still Water
Speaker 1: is playing the song Fever Dog. Russell's on stage, so
Speaker 1: William's standing next to Penny and Russell keeps looking over
Speaker 1: at them, and the way Crow uses point of view
Speaker 1: and the close ups, it's about Russell looking at them.
Speaker 1: Who's he looking at? Does William think he's looking at
Speaker 1: him and he's trying to impress him, or is he,
Speaker 1: of course trying to impress Penny Lane and that's who
Speaker 1: he's looking at, And the way William turns and sees her.
Speaker 1: We get that again in some different scenes, like the
Speaker 1: one at the pool after Russell tells him just make
Speaker 1: us look cool. In that scene, Penny's the one now
Speaker 1: in the distance looking at the two of them standing
Speaker 1: next to each other, and we get that exact same
Speaker 1: type of love triangle cross cutting. That does underscore one
Speaker 1: of the key parts of the film, which is what
Speaker 1: Russell says at the end of the movie, which is
Speaker 1: we both wanted to be with her, She wanted us
Speaker 1: to be together.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, there's also some nice concert footage. I
Speaker 5: should say, it feels like real concert footage when Stillwater
Speaker 5: is on stage and the camera gets looser, more lively,
Speaker 5: and you're right there with the players, which again is
Speaker 5: a way of accentuating the interaction between Russell and which
Speaker 5: is another relational dynamic that's central to this, but also
Speaker 5: between him and Jason Lee's Jeff, the lead singer and
Speaker 5: the lead guitarist, and the tension there. We feel a
Speaker 5: lot of that in the camera work on stage, not
Speaker 5: only when they're in moments of tension, maybe even more
Speaker 5: so when the camaraderie is high and they're both in
Speaker 5: the same groove and you understand, as he says at
Speaker 5: one point, why he's still with these guys even though
Speaker 5: he reckoned Nices. He has more talent than them. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but he may be able to find other bandmates who
Speaker 5: will put on a better show, but he won't have
Speaker 5: that vibe when he's on stage with these new guys
Speaker 5: that he has with these guys he's been playing with
Speaker 5: for years.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's a great point, and that might be
Speaker 1: a perfect transition into some of the issues I have
Speaker 1: with the movie. And I'll build up to mister Crudup
Speaker 1: and Russell Hammond. I think there are some scenes that
Speaker 1: just play out way too quickly for how important they
Speaker 1: are to the film, or Crow just makes some unforgivable choices,
Speaker 1: And one of them is when we watch the band
Speaker 1: meet Jimmy Fallon's agent character, the manager the road manager
Speaker 1: character for the first time, and he's talking to them
Speaker 1: about how we're gonna go by a plane. We're gonna
Speaker 1: leave the bus behind. We can fit in more shows,
Speaker 1: we can make more money. It's all about business, business, business,
Speaker 1: and Crow, for some reason cuts in the voiceover from
Speaker 1: William's conversation with Philip Seymour Hoffmann about how he's here
Speaker 1: for the death Rattle. They're going to strangle all the
Speaker 1: life out of music. He underlines it for us in
Speaker 1: a way where just showing William Miller's face in that moment,
Speaker 1: we know what he's thinking. We're all thinking it. We
Speaker 1: all remember that diner conversation with Hoffman's Lester Banks and
Speaker 1: we're thinking the same thing. He doesn't quite trust us there.
Speaker 1: I also really hate the scene, frankly that takes place
Speaker 1: at Rolling Stone late in the film. He's turned the
Speaker 1: article in, Oh, we've now seen two scenes where they're
Speaker 1: fawning all over him and the piece he's in the
Speaker 1: room with Ben Fong Torres, and I should know who
Speaker 1: the other guy is because it's clearly Rain Wilson playing
Speaker 1: a real character from Rolling Stone lore, and they're fawning
Speaker 1: all over him, and then the fact checker comes in.
Speaker 1: It's a terribly acted scene. It all happens way too Abroughly,
Speaker 1: they reject his story in like thirty seconds, right even
Speaker 1: though they've been just talking it up for the last
Speaker 1: five minutes, and they completely reverse their position and they
Speaker 1: don't even give him a chance to explain himself. And
Speaker 1: it goes from the cover to the garbage can just
Speaker 1: like that. And for me, the details, the very similitude
Speaker 1: of this movie are what's so key to making it great.
Speaker 1: And Cameron Crow obviously knows this world, he knows the
Speaker 1: world of Rolling Stone, he knows what this process would
Speaker 1: actually be like. And in that moment, it's not even
Speaker 1: him going for an easy laugh. It's just a short cut.
Speaker 1: It's just a shortcut to then get out of that
Speaker 1: scene and get to something else. But I actually think
Speaker 1: it's a really important scene since the whole movie has
Speaker 1: been building up to William actually turning that piece in.
Speaker 1: I understand them wanting to reject it, but how it's
Speaker 1: depicted I don't buy for a second.
Speaker 5: No, I don't think. I mean, we have backgrounds in journalism.
Speaker 5: I think even if you didn't, you would sniff out
Speaker 5: that something's false there, because it goes back and forth
Speaker 5: so many times. It's false drama. The other issue is
Speaker 5: that it's a choice of efficiency over atmosphere. All of
Speaker 5: those details you're talking about that are in the home scenes,
Speaker 5: well they're not going to be built out here, because
Speaker 5: all this is there to do is to set up
Speaker 5: the conflict between William and Russell and to fracture them
Speaker 5: in a way, or at least maybe not even fracture them,
Speaker 5: but set up that potential for their reunion and for
Speaker 5: the reunion to be in a really satisfying way. So
Speaker 5: that's where you see the chess pieces being set up
Speaker 5: in the screenplay, and because everything else is so authentic
Speaker 5: and fully realized, it does absolutely stand out.
Speaker 1: It's phenomenal William, to be quite honest with you, sophisticated, intelligent.
Speaker 1: Now we only have to cut out a couple of graphs.
Speaker 5: Jeff Phebe's mother already sent up our whole shoe box
Speaker 5: for my childhood Aboto, but it's really going to look fantastic.
Speaker 10: The band just nine percent of the story.
Speaker 8: It's a fabrication.
Speaker 4: You weren't honest, and worse, you wasted our time.
Speaker 1: Did you talk to Russell Hammond?
Speaker 4: Russell Hammond is the one who denied it.
Speaker 1: Now wait a second, denied it.
Speaker 4: We're going with the Hill manuscripts in my office.
Speaker 6: He's just some fan.
Speaker 2: What do you expect anyway?
Speaker 3: Wait?
Speaker 1: I think that, as we have both said, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of really funny moments in this movie, and
Speaker 1: for the most part, Crow gets the comedy just right.
Speaker 1: And then there are other scenes where he just pushes
Speaker 1: too hard and it becomes too broad one of them.
Speaker 1: I think these are minor quibbles. But this is a
Speaker 1: movie I adore, so I'm gonna quibble with it the
Speaker 1: way we do with the things we love, especially music.
Speaker 1: The scene straight out of Airplane when Sapphire is running
Speaker 1: along the bus and runs into the beam as the
Speaker 1: bus is pulling out of the stadium unnecessary at best.
Speaker 5: Okay, but I remember that coming. I remember thinking, Oh,
Speaker 5: this mays me gonna do it. This makes you laugh
Speaker 5: once because it surprises you. The second time you're like, no,
Speaker 5: don't do that. But going back to Fugut's face, his
Speaker 5: reactions turn.
Speaker 1: No, that's a good point that worth watching.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: We could probably spend twenty minutes on this scene and
Speaker 1: we're not going to. And actually Jim Plini, who helped
Speaker 1: us so much with that voicemail in our setup, he
Speaker 1: singles this scene out and likes this moment. But if
Speaker 1: you want to talk about music being used poorly in
Speaker 1: a movie, everything about the scene. The only scene, actually,
Speaker 1: Josh in this entire film that really played terribly for
Speaker 1: me on this rewatch was the one right after Penny
Speaker 1: Lane takes all the quayludes and William Miller, as he
Speaker 1: says it boldly goes where many men have gone before.
Speaker 1: It's uncomfortable. It's really uncomfortable, and it's it's made even
Speaker 1: more uncomfortable in a movie that has so many amazing
Speaker 1: musical cues to then have my Sharia more pop up
Speaker 1: on the soundtrack as we cut between William's kind of
Speaker 1: horrified face and these images of Kate Hudson's struggling legs
Speaker 1: and body kind of writhing as they're pumping or stomach.
Speaker 1: I understand, or at least I think I understand that
Speaker 1: it's meant to be ironic. Sure, the music in that
Speaker 1: moment is meant to be ironic, because there's nothing romantic
Speaker 1: about what's happening, and I don't think the crow is
Speaker 1: suggesting there is. But that doesn't make it any more
Speaker 1: satisfying to watch. And it's another moment where I almost
Speaker 1: feel like it's intended to be a joke. It's so
Speaker 1: ironic that I don't understand how it can be anything
Speaker 1: but us reacting and laughing, almost like when you can't
Speaker 1: believe what you're watching and you recoil from it a
Speaker 1: little bit and you let out a laugh. That's what
Speaker 1: I feel like he's going for in that moment, which
Speaker 1: I don't understand.
Speaker 5: I think the difficulty with that scene, and first of all,
Speaker 5: the kiss, the choice to kiss her while she's just
Speaker 5: about passed out and maybe dying. Yeah, wrong choice. You
Speaker 5: could maybe argue and I'd have to watch it again.
Speaker 5: But it was a possibility that crossed my mind as
Speaker 5: it was happening and I was feeling uncomfortable, is does
Speaker 5: William think this might snaper out of it? I don't
Speaker 5: know if that's what the thinking was. Yeah, it's not clear.
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's the only moment where he
Speaker 1: can finally fully express himself in his feelings.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which of course is a huge issue. But what
Speaker 5: I do think is the ultimate problem with that entire
Speaker 5: sequence is, in one scene that's also doing many other
Speaker 5: things with their relationship, Crow is trying to squeeze in
Speaker 5: all of the concerns that Francis mcdormand's mother has about
Speaker 5: this lifestyle that the movie otherwise completely ignores. I mean,
Speaker 5: this is like, and I remember when this came out,
Speaker 5: there were people much more familiar with the rock scene
Speaker 5: of that era said, this is like the squeakiest, cleanest
Speaker 5: version of what was going on. And unless I'm missing
Speaker 5: something that's top of mind, you never get a hint of,
Speaker 5: you know, the cost of any of this hard living
Speaker 5: that is part of the rock and roll lifestyle into
Speaker 5: this kind they at it. Francis McDormand talks about it,
Speaker 5: and there it's kind of laughed off, like she's the
Speaker 5: over concerning mother. Then all of a sudden it all
Speaker 5: is supposed to be like here's where she's been discarded
Speaker 5: as the sexual plaything. Here's where the overuse of drugs
Speaker 5: has severe, serious health costs. And it's like all this
Speaker 5: is bearing down on one sequel. It's just too much.
Speaker 5: It's it's not going to be able to do the
Speaker 5: work that I think Crow wants it to.
Speaker 1: And another scene that is too rushed and is about
Speaker 1: efficiency is the one leading to that, the card scene
Speaker 1: where he bets her and she goes to Humble Pie.
Speaker 1: I didn't believe any of that either, and I know
Speaker 1: that that's also what Crow knows that Life on the Red.
Speaker 5: Why didn't you believe it was?
Speaker 1: I just feel like you're saying about the Russell play performance.
Speaker 5: It's the performance, but Whistle's demeanor exactly. It doesn't like him.
Speaker 1: Also the character who is their manager, Derek, And I'm
Speaker 1: forgetting that wonderful actor.
Speaker 9: Noah Taylor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Noah Taylor, thank you everything about it, Josh. It
Speaker 1: just it plays out too rushed. It just seems like
Speaker 1: Crow needs to get to that moment where they lose.
Speaker 5: Her, so shelfy Field betrays exactly.
Speaker 1: So one other quick comedic moment that just does not
Speaker 1: work for me at all.
Speaker 5: I don't think you like this movie.
Speaker 1: It's another punchline, Josh, it's another punchline Crow goes for.
Speaker 1: And it's the scene on the plane, the scene on
Speaker 1: the plane where the drummer finally speaks and confesses to
Speaker 1: the whole group this truth about him, and the moment
Speaker 1: he says it, the plane straightens out, they get out
Speaker 1: of the weather, and everything's fine. It's just a moment
Speaker 1: in a movie filled with these wonderful, funny moments, like
Speaker 1: we've discussed, these moments that feel organic and truthful to
Speaker 1: the characters. It's a moment like the airplane one where
Speaker 1: Crow's just going to laugh too, absolutely just going for
Speaker 1: the joke. He goes for the gag and I wish
Speaker 1: it wasn't there.
Speaker 5: And I don't think we hear from that character no,
Speaker 5: but that is that his only line of dialogue.
Speaker 1: That's actually part of the joke too. And of course
Speaker 1: it didn't hit me. It didn't hit me, And we
Speaker 1: could talk about this for a little bit. I put
Speaker 1: in I made the mistake of putting in the extended edition.
Speaker 5: First.
Speaker 1: I was watching with Holden and Sophie untitled the version
Speaker 1: that came out like after the DVD release, and I
Speaker 1: started noticing scenes that I was sure, I had never
Speaker 1: seen before. And I look at the running time and
Speaker 1: it's two hours and forty one minutes long. I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's thirty five extra minutes here. Yeah, I got to
Speaker 1: start over. But after I watched this movie again, I
Speaker 1: went through the extended edition and looked for the differences,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to see what they were. And there
Speaker 1: is a scene, it's the one later in the film
Speaker 1: where they make the decision to spike the story. The
Speaker 1: band's talking outside a hotel and they're saying he wrote everything,
Speaker 1: he wrote the truth and Jason Lee's Jeff Beebe's all upset,
Speaker 1: and then we only get this sense that Russell Hammond
Speaker 1: may want to spike the story. He doesn't come out
Speaker 1: and say it. Well, actually, in the extended version of
Speaker 1: the movie, Jimmy Fallon does a bunch of talking there.
Speaker 1: He convinces the band that this is a bad idea.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good scene. You don't need it. The
Speaker 1: movie doesn't need it. But I actually kind of really
Speaker 1: like the scene. And there's a moment with the drummer
Speaker 1: where Billy Crudup says, again, this isn't in the cut
Speaker 1: that we all saw. Billy Crudup looks at him and says,
Speaker 1: you had the right idea the whole time to the drummer,
Speaker 1: and the drummer just kind of rolls his eyes. The
Speaker 1: joke being, of course, that his approach the whole time
Speaker 1: to the journalist was to never say anything. So that's
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Is that one moment where he finally
Speaker 1: lets out this confession, the plane straightens out. I don't care,
Speaker 1: it's a bad.
Speaker 5: Joke, John Feedovich. I'm looking up here since we're talking
Speaker 5: about him in Drummers, which no one would have predicted
Speaker 5: in an almost famous review, But he plays the drummer.
Speaker 1: Out of it. I do love that at least the
Speaker 1: drummer and the bass player are real musicians, and you
Speaker 1: can tell their real musicians, not necessarily actors, and they
Speaker 1: do a serviceable job, but they are the real musicians
Speaker 1: on stage that we need, which now brings me to
Speaker 1: the big thing, Josh, the guitarists with mystique doesn't have
Speaker 1: enough of it for this film.
Speaker 5: Or I'm really hoping you weren't going to yeah direction,
Speaker 5: I can't help it, Billy crowd Up, you don't like
Speaker 5: I overall.
Speaker 1: Like his performance, but hear me out here. It's actually
Speaker 1: probably more accurate to say that mystique is all he has.
Speaker 1: He has that kind of a loof charisma, especially in
Speaker 1: contrast to Jeff Bbe in his NonStop, superficial chatter, that
Speaker 1: makes him kind of compelling. You're drawn to him because
Speaker 1: you want to know what's going on in that head.
Speaker 1: But we do need to buy him as a musician
Speaker 1: and as an artist. You mentioned this that he is
Speaker 1: someone who sees himself as separate from the band. He
Speaker 1: is gone past them now, as he himself verbalizes, and
Speaker 1: it's it's just not there on the screen. It's not
Speaker 1: at all. His sound may be incendiary. William Miller may
Speaker 1: have that right, but his playing isn't. And there's a
Speaker 1: reason why Cameron Crow always shoots him from behind.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I was going to always.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 1: I don't, and we need it. It's not just the
Speaker 1: Billy c can't pull it off. I think the movie
Speaker 1: needs it because it's constantly underscoring how great of an
Speaker 1: artist he is and why William is so drawn to him.
Speaker 1: And I'm just not sure where they went wrong. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe they just did deliberately cast for what they thought
Speaker 1: Billy Krudup brought to the role as an actor, and
Speaker 1: they didn't broach it like the Coen Brothers with Oscar
Speaker 1: Isaac in Lewin Davis or some other movies where the
Speaker 1: musicianship really does matter and you have to believe it.
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure how with Crow's background and Nancy Wilson,
Speaker 1: his wife's background, being one of the members of Heart,
Speaker 1: one of the founding members of Heart, I don't know
Speaker 1: how they didn't put more of an emphasis on that.
Speaker 1: I just think it's essential, Like I said, from every
Speaker 1: aspect of the band dynamic to that dynamic between William
Speaker 1: and him and his reverence for him. I like the
Speaker 1: performance overall. He's out of place on stage, and I
Speaker 1: think that matters.
Speaker 5: I can't go with you there. I think you make
Speaker 5: a choice when you're and you've cited some movies that
Speaker 5: made the other choice and it works. The choice to
Speaker 5: show the art on the screen. I will give you
Speaker 5: another one, Patterson, where we see his poems. Yes, Adam
Speaker 5: Driver's poems that he's writing and they hold up. Okay,
Speaker 5: So that's one choice, show the art, but man, then
Speaker 5: it better be good, it better work. The other choice
Speaker 5: is to not show the painting. Don't show us the poem, yeah,
Speaker 5: and let the performance and the other cinematic elements make
Speaker 5: you believe that it is that good.
Speaker 1: We get a fair performance though in this movie, Josh,
Speaker 1: they're on stage a fair amount.
Speaker 5: They are, but as you pointed out, it's often he's
Speaker 5: often from behind. We get that one like strong Chord,
Speaker 5: when we first see him covering it and you realize
Speaker 5: that he's Yeah, they are covering up, but you also
Speaker 5: realize that he's in that chord even he's the driving
Speaker 5: force of the band, Like the song doesn't start until
Speaker 5: he gives that chord, turns around and joins the others.
Speaker 5: So I think there's filmmaking there that makes it work.
Speaker 5: And crut Up is a performer who's exactly built to
Speaker 5: play a character like this, who doesn't need to show us.
Speaker 5: He doesn't need to put on the screen, because in
Speaker 5: almost every one of his roles, he's this sort of
Speaker 5: guy who he slouches onto the screen because he doesn't
Speaker 5: one hundred percent want to be there. He doesn't need
Speaker 5: to be there. He's not an actor who has that
Speaker 5: that desire for attention that I feel right away, And
Speaker 5: I think that's part of Russell's issue too, is he's
Speaker 5: there just essentially the end of the day. He's there
Speaker 5: to play, right. I mean, he takes advantage of all
Speaker 5: these other benefits that it has being a rock star.
Speaker 5: But he is exactly who he says to William and
Speaker 5: who William believes him to be, and who William worships
Speaker 5: because of it. Yeah, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think he's a strong That's fine, we disagree. I
Speaker 1: like the performance. I just needed to see some of
Speaker 1: the actual artistry. I really did. It makes sense. I
Speaker 1: can already hear people saying the counter to this is
Speaker 1: the band's supposed to be a mid level rock band
Speaker 1: and their songs are average at best, even if they
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily but reason to be that way.
Speaker 4: Okay, but he is.
Speaker 1: And that's the unfortunate part I really really is.
Speaker 5: I don't know that you're saying you needed to see
Speaker 5: more of it. Yeah, but I don't know that we.
Speaker 1: I need to be convinced beyond just the very similitude if.
Speaker 5: You want him to kick ass guitar solo, to just
Speaker 5: maybe blow your hair back.
Speaker 1: I wanted to believe as that performer, as that artist
Speaker 1: on stage. So one other quick thing, I did want
Speaker 1: to mention totally random about this film is something did
Speaker 1: click when I was watching the extended edition. I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's another line or there's some intimation of it, but
Speaker 1: in the extended cut there is a moment that's definitely
Speaker 1: not in the theatrical where he has to finish his story.
Speaker 1: He is asked by the other band aids to take
Speaker 1: the clothes and do the laundry. He goes to Russell's room,
Speaker 1: he's told to go away, and he just kind of
Speaker 1: breaks down there in the hallway. They finally do come out,
Speaker 1: Penny Lane and Russell, and they're talking to him and
Speaker 1: they're urging him to go on the road, to stay
Speaker 1: on the road and we'll do the interview at the
Speaker 1: next stop, and he says, I want to go home.
Speaker 1: And I was instantly taken back to The Wizard of Oz,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about Judy Garland being lost and
Speaker 1: wanting to go home and she has to go see
Speaker 1: the Wizard, who ultimately disappoints her before she can go home.
Speaker 1: And of course Russell Hammond here is the Wizard who
Speaker 1: completely disappoints him. When they finally do get to or
Speaker 1: finally get to connect here in the scene, and it's
Speaker 1: all about this whole movie is all about life on
Speaker 1: the road versus the real world back at home and
Speaker 1: trying to avoid that type of life. And when Russell
Speaker 1: decides he needs to escape the fantasy of the road
Speaker 1: life and connect with real people in a real place.
Speaker 5: Where is he He's in Topeka.
Speaker 1: He's in Kansas. That's right, he goes to Kansas.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 1: He could have played Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Speaker 1: and really put a point out there, but Camera Crow doesn't. Overall,
Speaker 1: though the extended edition, if you love this film, it's
Speaker 1: worth watching. But there's a reason why those scenes were
Speaker 1: left on the cutting room floor, which is usually the
Speaker 1: case with the deleted scenes, and some of them are
Speaker 1: more examples of going for the comedy where it doesn't
Speaker 1: really work at all and it's not needed. There are
Speaker 1: a couple moments here there that actually kind of like,
Speaker 1: including one exchange with Lester and William on the street,
Speaker 1: an extension of what we already see where remember he's
Speaker 1: asked by Lester, do you like lou Reid? And he
Speaker 1: says the early stuff, yeah, but now he's trying to
Speaker 1: be Bowie. He should just be himself. And I think
Speaker 1: the next line is do you take drugs? In the
Speaker 1: longer cut, he says, now he just wants to be Bowie,
Speaker 1: should be himself. And Lester says, but if Lou's doing
Speaker 1: Bowie and Bowie's doing Lou, then isn't Lou still doing Lou?
Speaker 1: It's that little that extension I could have watched, of course,
Speaker 1: an entire film that was just those tho, well that's
Speaker 1: just it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and you know I can sense there's a
Speaker 5: repetition too. Have you not watched it? That sense of
Speaker 5: homesickness still absolutely comes through in few gets performance and
Speaker 5: the scenes we do get so, yeah, you don't need
Speaker 5: him actually saying that I want to go home in
Speaker 5: that scene. That's probably a decent cut to make.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get mail if we don't talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about Kate Hudson.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I like to ask you.
Speaker 1: I don't have a great take on her performance here.
Speaker 1: It's one that I do like, but there is a
Speaker 1: part of me that still feels, on watching it again,
Speaker 1: that it's a little forced. It's just a little bit
Speaker 1: forced that that moment where she maybe for me it's
Speaker 1: a little bit like Billy Kredit's performance where I need
Speaker 1: to believe the artistry a little bit more. Her artistry
Speaker 1: is the way she walks into a room and owns it.
Speaker 1: She is the center of everything. And we get that
Speaker 1: kind of scene where they go into that room early
Speaker 1: in the film at the Hyatt House and she starts
Speaker 1: speaking in French. And for me, Josh, every time I
Speaker 1: watch that scene, I completely lose her in that moment,
Speaker 1: and I'm never I'm never swept up in the glory
Speaker 1: and the magic of Penny Lane.
Speaker 5: Well, the filmmaking there doesn't really help her because if
Speaker 5: I recall, the camera kind of shifts away from her
Speaker 5: to it wasn't her about the room when the scene
Speaker 5: is supposed to be just directing all the attemption.
Speaker 1: John Tole's camera loves her though. Some of those close
Speaker 1: ups and any of the scenes outside with the sun
Speaker 1: and the way it radiates on her, they make her
Speaker 1: look incredible, just her face and the way they shoot her.
Speaker 1: There's magic in that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're probably closer to Debbie than who actually was
Speaker 5: getting frustrated watching this with me, and she just said
Speaker 5: she's always acting. She's always acting, And I guess I
Speaker 5: can see that but for one thing, it's incredibly the
Speaker 5: role that she's given, I think is a pretty interesting
Speaker 5: choice to make when you're telling a story like this.
Speaker 5: I realize it does revolve in the love triangle with
Speaker 5: the two male characters, but she also benefits, like Francis
Speaker 5: McDormand does, as having her own narrative within even that
Speaker 5: larger one that maybe related and tied to them, but
Speaker 5: also you come to really worry about where she's going
Speaker 5: to end up through all of this, and I think
Speaker 5: that's the element that Hudson sells when she finally does
Speaker 5: let that facade fall a little bit and she's no
Speaker 5: longer this bright, shining flower, but more of a trampled
Speaker 5: one that's refusing to admit she's been stepped on until
Speaker 5: everybody sees it. And then you know, towards those scenes,
Speaker 5: and unfortunately they kind of tie in with the one
Speaker 5: in the hotel room where she does overdose that's trying
Speaker 5: to do other things too, But overall, I still think
Speaker 5: she's really strong here and is able to bring that
Speaker 5: sort of that lament and loss, that other flip side
Speaker 5: that the movie really needs.
Speaker 7: So I guess what I'm trying to say is I've
Speaker 7: done twice the things I said I've done.
Speaker 5: What about your mom?
Speaker 7: She always said, marry up, marry someone ground, and that's
Speaker 7: why she named me lady.
Speaker 3: She named you lady, Lady Goodman.
Speaker 5: Lady Goodman.
Speaker 7: That's great, and.
Speaker 3: I know all my secrets.
Speaker 1: You got me, believe it or not. There's a lot
Speaker 1: more we could talk about with this film, including the
Speaker 1: tiny dancer scene on the bus, which maybe fortunately doesn't
Speaker 1: actually need any words. Josh, don't really explain.
Speaker 5: It works because it doesn't use any words, So why
Speaker 5: we waste some on it?
Speaker 1: There you go. When we come back. Enough of us
Speaker 1: amateurs rock critics. Stephen Heyden joins us with his take
Speaker 1: on almost Famous. Stay with us.
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Speaker 6: God, it's gonna get ugly.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 6: They're gonna buy you drinks.
Speaker 7: You're gonna mean girls.
Speaker 6: They're gonna try to fly you places for free off
Speaker 6: of you drugs. And I know it sounds great. These
Speaker 6: people are not your friends, you know.
Speaker 9: These are people want you to.
Speaker 6: Write sanctimonious stories about the genius of rock stars, and
Speaker 6: they will ruin rock and roll and strangle everything we
Speaker 6: love about it, you know, because they're trying to buy
Speaker 6: respectability for a form that is glory and righteously dumb.
Speaker 6: And you're smart enough to know that.
Speaker 5: And the dates seases to be dumb as the day.
Speaker 1: Seems to be real, right, And the late great Philip
Speaker 1: Seymour Hoffman as Lester bangs and almost famous. We're using
Speaker 1: that clip to introduce one of the great contemporary rock writers,
Speaker 1: Stephen Heyden, is back on film spotting. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for doing the show, Stephen.
Speaker 4: Thank you. You know, I can't really compare myself to
Speaker 4: the fictional Lester Banks. You know, It's funny because like
Speaker 4: when people talk about Lester Banks now, I feel like
Speaker 4: everyone pictures Philip Seymour Hoffin as Filter Banks like that
Speaker 4: has become the greatest rock critic of all time. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like his portrayal pretty enough Luster Banks. Yeah, because I
Speaker 4: think the actual Lester Banks, you know, he had some
Speaker 4: great attributes to him, but the Philip Seymour Hoffman version
Speaker 4: is a little bit warmer and fuzzier, you know, So
Speaker 4: I know that's the one I always think of when
Speaker 4: I think of Lester Banks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious first just what your kind of relationship
Speaker 1: to the movie Almost Famous is when it came out.
Speaker 1: You're just a couple of years younger than Josh and me.
Speaker 1: You would have been just out of school at a
Speaker 1: college for a few years. I imagine embarking on a
Speaker 1: writing career, embarking on a writing career about music, when
Speaker 1: something like Almost Famous comes along and it is in
Speaker 1: your wheelhouse as much as it is. How much were
Speaker 1: you anticipating it? And then did it live up to
Speaker 1: any expectations you had?
Speaker 4: Well? I was definitely anticipating it because I was a
Speaker 4: Cameron Crowe fan already. I mean, going back to say Anything,
Speaker 4: you know, I loved Say Anything as a kid, and
Speaker 4: I you know, and really every step along the way
Speaker 4: I was I mean, I knew Cameron Crowe as the
Speaker 4: screenwriter of Fast Times the Ridgemont High, you know, and
Speaker 4: I was aware of his you know background as a
Speaker 4: Rolling Stone journalist, you know, as I write about in
Speaker 4: my book, I was a big led Zeppelin fan, so
Speaker 4: I knew that he had, you know, interviewed led Zeppelin
Speaker 4: file LEDs up when when he was a teenager. And like,
Speaker 4: what kind of fantasy is that, like if you are
Speaker 4: a teenage fan of led Zeppelin and to see this
Speaker 4: guy that had been able to hang out with the
Speaker 4: with Jimmy Page and Robbert Plant when he was in
Speaker 4: high school. So, you know, like when he when I
Speaker 4: heard that he was going to make a movie about
Speaker 4: basically his own life and talking about the Rolling Stone stuff,
Speaker 4: I mean, it was amazing. I was very excited about
Speaker 4: the movie. And then the movie came out and I
Speaker 4: loved I loved the movie so much. I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people love this movie. But
Speaker 4: if you are a music writer, if you're a rock critic,
Speaker 4: it really is like just a whole other level, I
Speaker 4: think where it's like being an investigative reporter and watching
Speaker 4: all the presidents met or being a fighter pilot and
Speaker 4: watching top gun, you know, or a lawyer and watching
Speaker 4: a few good Men. You know, it's like it is
Speaker 4: the ultimate sort of fantasy of what you would want
Speaker 4: to do. And like you said, I was just starting
Speaker 4: out in my career when this movie came out. Almost
Speaker 4: Famous came out in two thousand and one, so I
Speaker 4: graduated from college in two thousand, so I was already working,
Speaker 4: and I was working for my hometown paper at the time,
Speaker 4: and I think I knew at that point that the
Speaker 4: days where you would go on the road with a
Speaker 4: rock band for like three weeks were like long gone,
Speaker 4: Like you know, like I was pretty naive about how,
Speaker 4: you know, journalism worked. I think still at that point,
Speaker 4: but I knew that that was totally a remnant of
Speaker 4: the past. But you know, loving seventies rock and being
Speaker 4: a music writer, I mean, this was just the ultimate
Speaker 4: movie for me, and the ultimate sort of fantasy. And
Speaker 4: it's kind of stayed that way ever since. I mean,
Speaker 4: I feel like this movie among music critics sort of
Speaker 4: fashionable to discredit this movie, you know, to say that like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, it's just a fantasy.
Speaker 3: Or.
Speaker 4: It doesn't hold up as well. But every time I
Speaker 4: watch this movie, it totally connects with me. And I
Speaker 4: think Cameron Crowe, whatever you want to say about some
Speaker 4: of his movies after this, you know, maybe being Hit
Speaker 4: or Miss. I feel like the combination of his music
Speaker 4: knowledge and also you know, that sort of romantic spirit
Speaker 4: that he brings to all of his movies, and also
Speaker 4: the humor that he brings it really just it all
Speaker 4: connects and comes together really beautifully in that movie. I mean,
Speaker 4: I feel like if there was any movie that he
Speaker 4: was going to hit out of the park, it was
Speaker 4: that one. Yeah, you know, and for me, it totally
Speaker 4: holds up even now when I revisit it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, That's what I was wondering as you look at it,
Speaker 5: you know, years after you've gotten into your career and
Speaker 5: it's significantly grown and you've learned the ropes and seen
Speaker 5: how things work, when you revisit it again and it
Speaker 5: still has that authenticity to you, it still still rings
Speaker 5: true in those same ways.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it is pretty authentic. But
Speaker 4: it also I mean it's a totally different era, you know,
Speaker 4: so there's things that I can't really speak to sure.
Speaker 4: The authenticity of it. I mean, to me, I look
Speaker 4: at it more as a fantasy. You know, and not
Speaker 4: saying that it wouldn't be authentic as someone who was
Speaker 4: a journalist in the seventies, but it's more of like
Speaker 4: what I wish I could have been through, you know,
Speaker 4: I wish I could have had the opportunity to be
Speaker 4: on the road with one band for like weeks and
Speaker 4: to just immerse myself in the world of a band
Speaker 4: and like all the things that they go through, because
Speaker 4: there's no way you get that kind of opportunity now.
Speaker 4: If you can spend a day with a band, that's
Speaker 4: pretty incredible, And I've had the chance to do that,
Speaker 4: you know, here and there right, and that's pretty great.
Speaker 4: But like you know where you're going to, like you're
Speaker 4: going like across the country. It's a different venues, and
Speaker 4: you're like you're in dressing rooms and you're watching the
Speaker 4: lead singer and the guitarists argue about the tour shirt.
Speaker 4: You know, like you're there's no way a publicist would
Speaker 4: ever let you do that now. But that doesn't detract
Speaker 4: from the movie from me. In a way, it makes
Speaker 4: me value the movie more because I get to I
Speaker 4: can at least live vicariously through William Miller. You know,
Speaker 4: I can I'm not going to be able to hang
Speaker 4: out with still Water, but I can hang out with
Speaker 4: William Miller while he's hanging out with Stillwater and have
Speaker 4: a proxy experience, you know, through this movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to ask you, Stephen about some of
Speaker 1: the things maybe Almost Famous doesn't get right. I did
Speaker 1: have a few issues with the movie, as much as
Speaker 1: I love it. Josh and I discussed them. We agreed
Speaker 1: for the most part on some of the scenes that
Speaker 1: just don't quite work or feel an authentic We talked
Speaker 1: about some of the comedy at times being a little
Speaker 1: bit too broad crow going for punchlines. But the one
Speaker 1: we disagreed with, and I really do want to hear
Speaker 1: your take, is the performance of Billy crutt Up and
Speaker 1: really more the depiction of Russell Hammond and the fact
Speaker 1: that they clearly cast someone who doesn't really have any
Speaker 1: musical ability or who isn't playing the guitar, and he's
Speaker 1: maybe not quite the artist that everyone else makes him
Speaker 1: out to be and that William seems to think he is.
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that take or disagree?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 4: Well, I disagree with you, so I guess I agree.
Speaker 1: With you, Joshua.
Speaker 5: That would be me Stevin because.
Speaker 4: I feel like the fact that Stillwater is not a
Speaker 4: great band, yes, is one of the great things about
Speaker 4: Almost Famous. Yeah, And I think that was a deliberate
Speaker 4: choice by Cameron Crowe. I feel like I watched a
Speaker 4: DVD extra where he talked about writing the Stillwater songs
Speaker 4: his wife Nancy Wilson from Heart and how one of
Speaker 4: the things that they were trying to do when they
Speaker 4: were writing the songs is to make sure the songs
Speaker 4: weren't too good they succeed aus. The idea was that
Speaker 4: this was an up and coming early seventies band, but
Speaker 4: like not a great seventies band, like one of those again,
Speaker 4: one of those Middle American sort of boogie rock bands
Speaker 4: that would have been big at the time but ultimately forgettable.
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, like when they talk about
Speaker 4: him being a great artist, I think the authenticity in
Speaker 4: that is that when whenever you're in a band situation
Speaker 4: and you're talking to artists, you know, there's always that
Speaker 4: one person in the band that everyone talks about being great,
Speaker 4: you know, where they talk about this person with a
Speaker 4: certain amount of awe, and it's the reality that gets
Speaker 4: treated in the sphere of a band. You know where
Speaker 4: there has to be one genius, but you step outside
Speaker 4: of that, and that person rarely is a genius. You know.
Speaker 4: They're just a pretty good musician that somehow form this
Speaker 4: band and convinced everyone around him that he was great.
Speaker 4: And I really think that that is what Crow is
Speaker 4: going for. I don't think the point is that Russell
Speaker 4: Hammond actually is this genius. It's that the people around
Speaker 4: him think that he's a genius. I think of that
Speaker 4: movie like had a sequel that was set like in
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty or nineteen eighty one, like Russell Hammond would
Speaker 4: probably be on the downswing of his career, you know,
Speaker 4: And I think, I mean, to me, that's how I feel, like,
Speaker 4: that's how I read the movie anyway. So yeah, I
Speaker 4: don't know. I love the sort of like mediocrity of Stillwater. Yeah,
Speaker 4: in the Bank, I think it's in the movie. I mean,
Speaker 4: I think that's totally works and that does feel truer
Speaker 4: to life in a lot of ways that Crow did
Speaker 4: it that way.
Speaker 1: And you know, one thing, I need to now watch
Speaker 1: the film kind of with these eyes. It's not just
Speaker 1: about how the others perceive him, it's potentially how he
Speaker 1: perceives himself. He says very directly, he thinks that he
Speaker 1: has more talent than anyone else in the group, but
Speaker 1: maybe that's just part of his own fantasy, you know,
Speaker 1: as a character, that's one of the ways that he
Speaker 1: is deluding himself about his abilities.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean, yeah, and I think that's just
Speaker 4: a common thing if you're in a band, I think,
Speaker 4: if you have you know, the if you're a person
Speaker 4: who actually says that I belong on a stage or
Speaker 4: I deserve to be on the quiver of Rolling Stone,
Speaker 4: I mean, you have to have a certain level of megalomania,
Speaker 4: you know, in order to do that, you know, to
Speaker 4: have that kind of level of self belief. But the
Speaker 4: fact of the matter is is that there are very
Speaker 4: few geniuses. You know, Like most people are not geniuses.
Speaker 4: Most people are just pretty good and they put out
Speaker 4: pretty good music for a while and then they sort
Speaker 4: of drift away, you know, and that's fine, you know,
Speaker 4: but like when you're in the moment, you know, everyone
Speaker 4: is a genius, we're the best, we're gonna be We're
Speaker 4: gonna be the next led Zeppelin, and you go for
Speaker 4: it and you try your best, and then you inevitably
Speaker 4: fail and and you go away. You know, that's the
Speaker 4: trajectory of almost every single rock band ever.
Speaker 2: I'm always going to tell you the truth. From the
Speaker 2: very beginning, we said I'm the front man and you're
Speaker 2: the guitarist. With mystique. That's the dynamic we agreed on
Speaker 2: page plant Mick Keith. But somehow it's all turning around.
Speaker 2: We have got to control what's happening. There's a responsibility here.
Speaker 4: Excuse me.
Speaker 1: We always love having Stephen on the show. Hope to
Speaker 1: have him back on soon. He's the music critic at
Speaker 1: up Rocks and we'll link to his work in our
Speaker 1: show notes and you can find that in the podcast
Speaker 1: description as well. If you'd like to become a film
Speaker 1: Spotting Family member and get access to our complete archive,
Speaker 1: please do so. You can learn more at filmspotting Family
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