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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys putting.

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Speaker 2: On here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in Armed now?

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Speaker 4: No, look, we're going to do this thing.

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Speaker 3: We're going to have a conversation.

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Speaker 1: Hey, film spotters. You know this movie is one of

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Speaker 1: my all time favorites, one that if it was up

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Speaker 1: to me, I'd put in the Film Spotting Pantheon, though

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Speaker 1: I don't think it will ever get there. It is

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Speaker 1: turning twenty five. Cameron Crows Almost Famous. Back in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: we gave it the sacred cow treatment. I think it

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Speaker 1: was in honor of Stephen Heyden's book coming out, a

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Speaker 1: book about classic rock. So we decided to talk about

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Speaker 1: this film and also do our top five classic rock

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Speaker 1: moments and movies.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a fun one to put together. And

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Speaker 5: Almost Famous a great movie to revisit. I don't remember

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Speaker 5: if I blocked any sort of proposal to put it

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Speaker 5: in the pantheon, but it was fun to take another

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Speaker 5: look at Almost Famous. And you know the archive, the

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Speaker 5: Film Spotting archive, we have reviews like this one. We

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Speaker 5: have top fives, like the Classic Rock Top five, and

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Speaker 5: all sorts of stuff going all the way back to

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Speaker 5: two thousand and five, and to get access to those shows,

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Speaker 5: those lists, those reviews. You should become a Film Spotting

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Speaker 5: Family member. That's one of the benefits you get by

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Speaker 5: being a member of the Film Spotting Family. You can

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Speaker 5: learn about all those details over at film spottingfamily dot com.

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Speaker 5: For now from June twenty eighteen, here is that Sacred

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Speaker 5: Cow review of Almost Famous.

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Speaker 6: Now for you with what band Oh, I'm here to

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Speaker 6: interview Black Sabbath.

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Speaker 1: I'm a journalist.

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Speaker 7: I'm not not a you know, no, A what.

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Speaker 4: No A what?

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Speaker 8: Not a groupie.

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Speaker 3: We are not groupies.

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Speaker 1: This is Penny Lane Man.

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Speaker 7: Show some respect.

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Speaker 3: Groupies sleep with rock stars because they want to be

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Speaker 3: near someone famous. We're here because of the music. We

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Speaker 3: are band aids. She used to art a school for

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Speaker 3: band names. We don't have intercourse with these guys. We

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Speaker 3: support the music, We inspire the music. We're here because

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Speaker 3: of the music.

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Speaker 8: Mark Bolin broke her heart. Man, it's famous.

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Speaker 7: It's a long story.

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Speaker 1: In a Washington Post interview just prior to the release

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Speaker 1: of Almost Famous, the film's writer, director and inspiration Cameron

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Speaker 1: Crowe recounts a story about David Bowie guitarist Mick Ronson,

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Speaker 1: who had died shortly before the movie started production. In

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Speaker 1: a deathbed conversation, Ronson was asked how it felt to

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Speaker 1: be at ground zero of the decadence in rock. It

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Speaker 1: was a very loving time and a very naive time,

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Speaker 1: or at least it was to me, Ronson explained, And

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Speaker 1: I just thought that was profound. Crow said. Even the

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Speaker 1: guys who were playing glitter rock, which was so subversive,

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Speaker 1: had a lack of irony and cynicism about it that

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Speaker 1: today would be point. But the whole global change in

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Speaker 1: rock cool being a mass concept was still around the corner,

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Speaker 1: so it was still a little more personal. And all

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Speaker 1: I can say is passionately naive, and I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to catch that. Passionately naive is pretty much the best

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Speaker 1: way to describe most Cameron Crowe characters. I'm thinking here

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Speaker 1: of fewer clients, less money, Jerry Maguire and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as

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Speaker 1: a career. Lloyd Dobbler and say anything all this negative

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Speaker 1: energy just makes me stronger. Cliff Ponsier and aspiring supertrained architects,

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Speaker 1: Steve Dunn and singles and what about pretty much the

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Speaker 1: entire cast of the Crow written Amy Heckerling directed Fast

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Speaker 1: times at Ridgemont High. We, of course, remember all I

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Speaker 1: need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Spacoli, And well, what am I supposed to do?

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Speaker 1: Go to this strange girl in my biology class and

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Speaker 1: say hello, I'd like you to take your clothes off

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Speaker 1: and jump on me. Mark Ratner. So that's one way

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Speaker 1: into Almost Famous. If you can relate to Crowe's collection

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Speaker 1: of well meaning, idealistic misfits, then you'll surely appreciate his

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Speaker 1: almost famous stand in fifteen year old William Miller, who

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Speaker 1: lands an assignment to cover the up and coming band

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Speaker 1: Stillwater on tour for Rolling Stone, just as Crow himself

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Speaker 1: did in the early seventies writing about the Allman Brothers,

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Speaker 1: led Zeppelin and many others. But there are other ways,

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Speaker 1: in lots of them, according to film spoting listener Jim

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Speaker 1: Pelini and Beth Page, New York, who rates Almost Famous

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Speaker 1: as his favorite Crow movie.

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Speaker 9: And really, I think that's because its script is layered

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Speaker 9: with just multiple very well developed storylines that Crow certainly

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Speaker 9: must have culled from his own experience, and it really

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Speaker 9: shows in a very rich screenplay. I think you know,

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Speaker 9: at one end of the film. You've got the film

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Speaker 9: paying a lot of attention to the role of criticism

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Speaker 9: in music and criticism in art in general. It has

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Speaker 9: a lot of effective biopic elements, focusing on Lester Bangs

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Speaker 9: and the founding staff at Rolling Stone, you know. Right

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Speaker 9: in the center, you've got kind of the interpersonal conflict

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Speaker 9: with a professional touring rock band that's kind of the

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Speaker 9: bedrock of the story, and this ripped and then yet

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Speaker 9: it still has time for a very authentic storyline about

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Speaker 9: a mother trying to keep her family together despite I

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Speaker 9: guess you'd call it the lore of the seventies counterculture.

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Speaker 9: And on the top of all that, you've got Crow

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Speaker 9: very effectively conveying the you know, absolute reverie and bliss

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Speaker 9: of live performance, you know, on stage and on hotel

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Speaker 9: rooms and as you know, on a bus. Of all

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Speaker 9: those lines, you know, which are really fleshed out beautifully

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Speaker 9: in the film, but to me, there's one that kind

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Speaker 9: of floats above the rest, and that's the one that

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Speaker 9: focuses on the young you know, William Miller learning how

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Speaker 9: to I guess you know, love a woman for the

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Speaker 9: first time and navigating the emotion sparked by that experience

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Speaker 9: which is obviously new to him. It's my favorite part

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Speaker 9: of the movie, and I really appreciate you guys doing

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Speaker 9: a review on it. It's about time. It's a great one.

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Speaker 1: Take care, guys, Josh. We've never talked about Almost Famous,

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Speaker 1: not in any detail, but I know you are a fan,

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Speaker 1: or at least you were a fan on initial review.

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Speaker 1: After chasing you around Chicagoland screening rooms for four days,

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Speaker 1: I've pinned you down. The mics are live, the tape

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Speaker 1: is rolling. What speaks to you, the attention to criticism,

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Speaker 1: the highs and lows of life on the road, the

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Speaker 1: family dynamic, the love story, as romantically one sided as

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Speaker 1: it may be, the passionate naivete of the movie's young protagonist,

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Speaker 1: and his belief in the power of music, or something

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Speaker 1: else entirely. In other words, what do you love about

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Speaker 1: Almost Famous?

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Speaker 5: Well, I hope we can talk about all those things,

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Speaker 5: because it's all good stuff in this really, really good

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Speaker 5: movie that does still hold up. I mean, anything with

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Speaker 5: this amount of optimism is going to look a little

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Speaker 5: hokier with each passing year. But I still don't think

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Speaker 5: I would really apply that word sure to this movie.

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Speaker 5: A quaintness that grows talking of Yeah, it's quainter more

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Speaker 5: quaint each time we revisit it in a few years

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Speaker 5: have passed, and maybe we've seen a little bit more

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Speaker 5: about the world and become more cynical ourselves. What did

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Speaker 5: I love about almost famous on this revisit, Can I

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Speaker 5: just say Patrick Fuget's face? Yeah, I mean, and that's

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Speaker 5: something keep part. It's something that was striking initially. Who

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Speaker 5: is this kid? Where did he find him? How he

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Speaker 5: works so perfectly, the fact that he has that it's

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Speaker 5: not really that he's blushing, but it's almost like he's

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Speaker 5: been sleeping on a pillow on one side for a

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Speaker 5: while and there's just still a little color there that

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Speaker 5: wasn't there before. That changes throughout the film. He always

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Speaker 5: seems to be a little flushed about something, and when

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Speaker 5: he looks at these rock stars, when he waits for

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Speaker 5: their answer to his questions, that face. So I have

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Speaker 5: a new nephew about a month old, Gideon Eno Coots

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Speaker 5: parents are listeners to the show, so first time shout

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Speaker 5: out to Nagan. Yeah, well ties in with the music

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Speaker 5: theme here, And when I look into Gideon's face, we

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Speaker 5: just saw him over the weekend. He looks older and

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Speaker 5: more wise and more knowing than Patrick.

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Speaker 10: Fuget in this movie because the eyes and the awe,

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Speaker 10: but also just realizing for the first time what life

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Speaker 10: could be, which is something that seems to be happening

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Speaker 10: to him in this movie.

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Speaker 1: I he's not looking at you like Fuget looks at

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Speaker 1: Billy kruddup. Is he Josh? I hope not. No, No,

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Speaker 1: you don't have that kind of wisdom to disciss.

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Speaker 5: Not making that comparison. But it is really something what

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Speaker 5: Fuget brings that's got to work, right. I talked about

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Speaker 5: that with Solo and aldn Aaron Reich that he had

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Speaker 5: to work if the movie was going to soar. Fuget

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Speaker 5: had to work here if Almost Famous was going to soar,

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Speaker 5: and it absolutely does, and a lot of it has

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Speaker 5: to do with him. I want, I do want to

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Speaker 5: get into some of that other stuff. I think, probably

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Speaker 5: secondarily stuff that you can more chew on and think

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Speaker 5: about and maybe we can discuss, is its attention to criticism,

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Speaker 5: and in particular the critics relationship to the creators as

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Speaker 5: opposed to their art. That's obviously at the heart of

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Speaker 5: this film. But here I've been doing something somewhat in

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Speaker 5: the same arena for a number more years since I

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Speaker 5: first saw Almost Famous, and that's something that's becoming only

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Speaker 5: more complicated. So I'm curious to hear how that struck

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Speaker 5: you as well. Yeah, you know just where things are,

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Speaker 5: especially as you do this more than me. But interview

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Speaker 5: filmmakers from the show, and we know filmmakers who follow

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Speaker 5: the show closely and listen on occasion to what we

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Speaker 5: have to say about their movies, and that is all

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Speaker 5: kind of like it's always kind of given me the

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Speaker 5: willies a little bit, sure, and seeing Almost Famous dig

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Speaker 5: into those complications did that more so in a way

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Speaker 5: that was good and challenging and thought provoking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of the day, I'm a fan,

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Speaker 1: I'm a movie fan, and I'm a fan of pretty

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Speaker 1: much everybody who I've ever done an interview with for

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Speaker 1: this show, and that line potentially crossing that line into

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Speaker 1: exposing your fandom too much, not being seen as a professional,

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Speaker 1: or just appearing uncool in front of them whatever that means,

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Speaker 1: which is so germane to this movie. That is something

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Speaker 1: that obviously I struggle with. I feel a lot like

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Speaker 1: William Miller in those situations and to your point about

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Speaker 1: fugutz performance. I appreciated it the first time I saw

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Speaker 1: this movie, but that was something on rewatch, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know believe it or not as much as I

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Speaker 1: love this movie as much as I've said this before.

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Speaker 1: I think it came up recently that I have the

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Speaker 1: shot from the end of this movie with the microphone

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Speaker 1: as my avatar. It has been my avatar since I

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Speaker 1: saw this film pretty much and avatar has existed. I

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Speaker 1: have the shot of Philis Seymour, Hoffman and Fuget walking

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Speaker 1: up that hill talking about criticism after the radio station

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Speaker 1: scene where they meet, and almost famous as our header

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Speaker 1: on our Facebook page and on Twitter. So I've always

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Speaker 1: been enamored with this film and what this film is about,

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Speaker 1: and yet I don't think I've ever watched it in

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Speaker 1: its entirety since I saw it in the theater in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one. I've maybe caught scenes here and there.

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Speaker 1: So I really was kind of watching it again for

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Speaker 1: the first time, and yet I felt like I knew

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Speaker 1: it so well. Just so many scenes in so many

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Speaker 1: lines were ingrained in my memory. And his performance is

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Speaker 1: a standout element of this movie, and he was a newcomer.

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Speaker 1: I think this is his first real feature film, his

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Speaker 1: first major project anyway, And that over enthusiasm when he

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Speaker 1: is walking out of that first concert scene and he

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Speaker 1: knows everybody's names, and he can't stop himself from trying

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Speaker 1: to show that he fits it right, right, that he's

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Speaker 1: part of the group. Now, he's part of this larger group,

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Speaker 1: not just that he's attached to Stillwater in anyway, which

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Speaker 1: at this point he isn't, but he thinks he's now

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Speaker 1: part of this collective, this backstage musical life. And he

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Speaker 1: insists on saying hi and saying everyone's name, just as

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Speaker 1: if he's even proving to himself, well, this is really happening.

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Speaker 1: I'm part of this and I know these people. And

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Speaker 1: then the way Sapphire comes up Rusa Balk and kisses

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Speaker 1: him and calms him down. His facial reaction there is magic.

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Speaker 1: His reaction when Philip Seymour Hoffman says to him, go

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Speaker 1: be a lawyer, which we know his mom has been

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Speaker 1: instructing him to do earlier in the film. That look

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Speaker 1: on his face not just of disillusionment, but as if

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Speaker 1: Daggers Yeah thrush rushed through his heart in that moment

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Speaker 1: it's great. So that look of despair, he just captures

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Speaker 1: it perfectly.

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Speaker 5: I'm glad you mentioned those specific moments, because I didn't

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Speaker 5: want to imply that it was just how he looks

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Speaker 5: that makes this role so great. It is in the performance.

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Speaker 5: And one other thing he adds in additional all those

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Speaker 5: things you said, is that when he's caught not being cool,

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Speaker 5: he doesn't even have the coolness to try to cover

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Speaker 5: it up. He always cops to his uncoolness immediately, and that,

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Speaker 5: of course just makes him seem more vulnerable and more rendearing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does.

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Speaker 9: So.

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Speaker 1: I thought a lot about as soon as I finished

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Speaker 1: this rewatch, why do I love this film? And before

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Speaker 1: I get into some of those reasons, I do have

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Speaker 1: to say that Almost Famous might be in a very

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Speaker 1: small category of movies for me that I unabashedly think

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Speaker 1: are great, even though I'm not convinced it's a great movie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there are problems I have with the film, and we'll

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Speaker 1: discuss those problems. There are ways in which I think

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Speaker 1: Cameron Crow sabotages his own material, unfortunately, but there's so

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Speaker 1: much I do adore, and I think there are some

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Speaker 1: obvious things we can point to you touched on some

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Speaker 1: of this. It combines my primary interests movies. It's a

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Speaker 1: movie after all music, which I've noted many times. But

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Speaker 1: I've been playing in bands since I was twelve years

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Speaker 1: old and played instruments, so music's always been near and

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Speaker 1: dear to me. And of course criticism what we do

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Speaker 1: or try to do here on the show. And it's

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Speaker 1: a movie that is about the consideration of art and

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Speaker 1: the power it has and the place that it has.

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Speaker 1: I've already alluded to this. I'm a card carrying member

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Speaker 1: of the uncool. I do feel like even when I'm

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Speaker 1: in these circles, and sometimes you can convince yourself that

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Speaker 1: when you hang around certain people, certain filmmakers a little

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Speaker 1: bit or whatever, you feel like you're in that circle.

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Speaker 1: You feel just like William Miller backstage, like you're part

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Speaker 1: of the gang. You're not part of the gang. So

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Speaker 1: even when you are an insider, I often feel like

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Speaker 1: the outsider. And it's a movie fundamentally, like all coming

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Speaker 1: of age movies are about figuring it out, about gaining

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Speaker 1: experience about wisdom, and we get to gain that experience

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Speaker 1: in wisdom through William Miller in the film. And I

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Speaker 1: think just overall the fact that it's the type of

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Speaker 1: film that gives you a scene like the one when

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Speaker 1: Zoey Deschanel as Anita says, this song is why I'm

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Speaker 1: leaving home. She can't articulate to her mother why she's leaving.

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Speaker 5: Which is exactly what drives her mother nuts about it. Right,

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Speaker 5: Why do we.

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Speaker 1: Have Simon, Simon and Garfunkle. They can express it. They

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Speaker 1: can express something that we in our everyday lives simply cannot.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that this movie and these characters have

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Speaker 1: that type of reverence for music is something that I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us just can't help but too

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Speaker 1: attached to. And I do love that scene in particular

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Speaker 1: the way that it starts out as diegetic music. It's

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Speaker 1: there in the scene she puts it on the record

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Speaker 1: player and we're hearing it, But then that cut to

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Speaker 1: them actually packing up the car. Now it's non diegetic.

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Speaker 1: Now it's Crow playing it over the scene as they

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Speaker 1: do head off, just like the protagonists in that great

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Speaker 1: Simon and Garfunkle too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that was one of the things that

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Speaker 5: impressed me more about the craft on this rewatch is

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Speaker 5: the interweaving of the music not only diegetic and non diegetic,

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Speaker 5: but just what songs he's going to use, when, what

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Speaker 5: portions of songs, so that you don't get a lot

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Speaker 5: of just here's the beginning of the song for the

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Speaker 5: beginning of this scene, and when this scene ends, will

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Speaker 5: come to a nice ending point.

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Speaker 1: In this song.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's much more very well constructed, complicated and

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Speaker 5: layered than that. I did find it, even as I'm

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Speaker 5: praising that sort of construction, shaggier and scruffier than I remembered.

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Speaker 5: And maybe that's going to point to some of the

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Speaker 5: issues you had where the scenes altogether didn't quite flow

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Speaker 5: as seamlessly as I remembered in my mind, which, of

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Speaker 5: course you remember beloved movies like this as Greatest Hits elements,

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Speaker 5: and it's sort of like maybe when you stumble across

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Speaker 5: that track on the Greatest Hits album and you're so,

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Speaker 5: I don't know why that's in there. There were maybe

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Speaker 5: a few moments where you're like, oh, I've forgot this

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Speaker 5: was in almost famous in general. I forgot there was

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Speaker 5: this much. Francis McDorman, Yes, I think realization, Yeah, I

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Speaker 5: mean it's a I remember it being a through line

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Speaker 5: how his mother felt and the connection to her. But

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Speaker 5: I didn't remember it being this good, including their scenes

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Speaker 5: that are always talked about, like when she's on the

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Speaker 5: phone with Russell and spins him around in an instant,

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Speaker 5: But how about the one where she's exasperated at the

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Speaker 5: end of her rope with William and I forget exactly

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Speaker 5: what they're discussing at that point, but her response finally

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Speaker 5: when she realizes he's gone, that there's nothing she can

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Speaker 5: do about.

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Speaker 1: This story, she breaks down. Actually at the end of

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Speaker 1: the scene.

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Speaker 5: What she says, this is what I remember. Her response

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Speaker 5: is not to condemn him, not to give him anger,

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Speaker 5: not to give him a final warning. It's to say

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Speaker 5: I love you, yes, And she says it in a

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Speaker 5: way that's not necessarily saying I'm now on board with

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Speaker 5: this or you've convinced me otherwise. She hasn't shifted in anything,

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Speaker 5: including her love for him, and that's what she decides

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Speaker 5: to leave with. So she's amazing. And the other element

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Speaker 5: I thought there was way more Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and that shows you how iconic has scenes. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 5: And the way that you give Philip Seymour Hoffman four

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Speaker 5: minutes and he'll make it feel like you just watched

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Speaker 5: a feature.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I really was struck by that as well, But

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I had a complete reappreciation for Francis

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Speaker 1: mcdorman's performance and just how Cameron Crowe uses that character.

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Speaker 1: I actually did watch this with Holden and Sophie, my

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Speaker 1: two oldest kids, and I was very gratified at the

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Speaker 1: end of the film that they enjoyed it. They both

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Speaker 1: enjoyed it quite a bit. Holden felt like he could

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Speaker 1: relate to William Miller, even though he certainly doesn't have

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Speaker 1: any sense of his appreciation for music, especially rock music.

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Speaker 1: But the biggest change in me from that time I

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Speaker 1: saw it in two thousand and one is I had

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Speaker 1: so much more sympathy for the mom. I mainly saw

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Speaker 1: her as comedy. It was there for comedic relief, and

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Speaker 1: those scenes still are or maybe the funniest scenes in

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Speaker 1: the movie anything with her and da Chanel and with

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Speaker 1: Patrick Fugue. But my kids they didn't see her as

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Speaker 1: a villain exactly watching the movie, but on that Miller spectrum,

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Speaker 1: from William who sees his mom as overwhelming but admirable

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Speaker 1: and well intentioned, to Anita who sees her as soul

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Speaker 1: crushingly overbearing. My kids saw her as closer to Anita,

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Speaker 1: and I think the younger you are, you probably see

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Speaker 1: her that way. Now as a parent, which I was

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Speaker 1: not in two thousand and one, I'm way more in

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Speaker 1: tune with that character and her fears. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's the exact same scene you're thinking of

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Speaker 1: or not, but I'd completely forgotten about the one where

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Speaker 1: she is talking to William. It's one of the hallway scenes.

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Speaker 1: It's not the one where Russell gets on. It's the

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Speaker 1: one where they introduced the new girl who says she's

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Speaker 1: correct orient or whatever, and William can't hear what his

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Speaker 1: mom's saying, and she's saying, I love you. And the

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Speaker 1: way she breaks down at the end of that scene,

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Speaker 1: camera Crow gives her a moment to herself, This mom

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Speaker 1: who is emotional but who's otherwise had such kind of

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Speaker 1: steely resolve. Actually with Anita in that moment she's just

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Speaker 1: finally done. That really resonated with me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I do remember thinking of her as comic relief

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Speaker 5: because of those highlight scenes, also as being well you

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Speaker 5: had to have her to show where William was from. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: but this drops us. This speaks to the richness of

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Speaker 5: the writing in terms of all of these characters, so

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Speaker 5: many characters, how Crow is able to juggle them, give

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Speaker 5: them each their own narratives within William's experience, which is

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Speaker 5: obviously the driving force, and have us feel like we're invested.

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Speaker 5: We're just as invested in how his mom is experiencing, Yes,

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Speaker 5: this journey he's on, almost as much as we're invested

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Speaker 5: in William herself.

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Speaker 1: Some of those lines too. On the phone, when she's

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Speaker 1: telling Russell, now, go do your best, be bold, she's

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Speaker 1: quoting good to and you've been kissing she knows Anita's

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Speaker 1: been kissing Anita telling her feck you, and the way

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Speaker 1: she says hey in response to that is so great.

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Speaker 1: And the other really good McDorman moment, though there are

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Speaker 1: so many we could point to, when the woman on

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Speaker 1: the phone Freus a balk I think answers the phone

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Speaker 1: in the room and she says, is this Maryanne with

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Speaker 1: the pot and they cut back to McDorman and she

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Speaker 1: just closes her eyes. It's just a very subtle close

403
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Speaker 1: of the eyes. It's everything she feared could be happening

404
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Speaker 1: has now been realized. In that moment with just that

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Speaker 1: one line, all those moments between the family, I really

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Speaker 1: do think our gold and extremely funny. I even love

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Speaker 1: the touch. And of course it's all about the details

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Speaker 1: because it's Crow's real life, and whether he embellished this

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Speaker 1: or not, it seems like one of those elements that

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Speaker 1: had to be authentic. The family whistle, right the way

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Speaker 1: that she sends him off to that Black Sabbath concert

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Speaker 1: and says look for me later and you know, if

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Speaker 1: we can't find each other the whistle, and later in

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Speaker 1: the film when he's walking away from Penny Lane, we

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Speaker 1: actually do hear that whistle she is calling for him

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Speaker 1: to come back to the car. There are some really

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Speaker 1: nice moments too that we get visually from Crow in

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Speaker 1: this movie that I wasn't aware of the first time

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Speaker 1: I saw. There's some symmetry in some of his shot choices.

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Speaker 1: He likes to use that track forward when Anita is

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Speaker 1: looking at him by the car before she goes and

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Speaker 1: we get that close up one day You'll be cool,

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Speaker 1: and that's echoed then in that shot of William's eyes

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Speaker 1: close up when we get some of that later between

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Speaker 1: him and Penny Lane, of course played by Kate Hudson,

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Speaker 1: who we haven't really talked about here yet, And the

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Speaker 1: love triangle shot is something he uses at least two times,

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Speaker 1: maybe three times. One of them is when still Water

429
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Speaker 1: is playing the song Fever Dog. Russell's on stage, so

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Speaker 1: William's standing next to Penny and Russell keeps looking over

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Speaker 1: at them, and the way Crow uses point of view

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Speaker 1: and the close ups, it's about Russell looking at them.

433
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: Who's he looking at? Does William think he's looking at

434
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 1: him and he's trying to impress him, or is he,

435
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: of course trying to impress Penny Lane and that's who

436
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: he's looking at, And the way William turns and sees her.

437
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 1: We get that again in some different scenes, like the

438
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 1: one at the pool after Russell tells him just make

439
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: us look cool. In that scene, Penny's the one now

440
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: in the distance looking at the two of them standing

441
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: next to each other, and we get that exact same

442
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: type of love triangle cross cutting. That does underscore one

443
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,959
Speaker 1: of the key parts of the film, which is what

444
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 1: Russell says at the end of the movie, which is

445
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 1: we both wanted to be with her, She wanted us

446
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: to be together.

447
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, there's also some nice concert footage. I

448
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 5: should say, it feels like real concert footage when Stillwater

449
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 5: is on stage and the camera gets looser, more lively,

450
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 5: and you're right there with the players, which again is

451
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 5: a way of accentuating the interaction between Russell and which

452
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 5: is another relational dynamic that's central to this, but also

453
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 5: between him and Jason Lee's Jeff, the lead singer and

454
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 5: the lead guitarist, and the tension there. We feel a

455
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 5: lot of that in the camera work on stage, not

456
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 5: only when they're in moments of tension, maybe even more

457
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 5: so when the camaraderie is high and they're both in

458
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 5: the same groove and you understand, as he says at

459
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 5: one point, why he's still with these guys even though

460
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 5: he reckoned Nices. He has more talent than them. Yeah,

461
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,239
Speaker 5: but he may be able to find other bandmates who

462
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 5: will put on a better show, but he won't have

463
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 5: that vibe when he's on stage with these new guys

464
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 5: that he has with these guys he's been playing with

465
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 5: for years.

466
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's a great point, and that might be

467
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: a perfect transition into some of the issues I have

468
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: with the movie. And I'll build up to mister Crudup

469
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: and Russell Hammond. I think there are some scenes that

470
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,239
Speaker 1: just play out way too quickly for how important they

471
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: are to the film, or Crow just makes some unforgivable choices,

472
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: And one of them is when we watch the band

473
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: meet Jimmy Fallon's agent character, the manager the road manager

474
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: character for the first time, and he's talking to them

475
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: about how we're gonna go by a plane. We're gonna

476
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: leave the bus behind. We can fit in more shows,

477
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: we can make more money. It's all about business, business, business,

478
00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: and Crow, for some reason cuts in the voiceover from

479
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: William's conversation with Philip Seymour Hoffmann about how he's here

480
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: for the death Rattle. They're going to strangle all the

481
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 1: life out of music. He underlines it for us in

482
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: a way where just showing William Miller's face in that moment,

483
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: we know what he's thinking. We're all thinking it. We

484
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: all remember that diner conversation with Hoffman's Lester Banks and

485
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: we're thinking the same thing. He doesn't quite trust us there.

486
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: I also really hate the scene, frankly that takes place

487
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: at Rolling Stone late in the film. He's turned the

488
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: article in, Oh, we've now seen two scenes where they're

489
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: fawning all over him and the piece he's in the

490
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: room with Ben Fong Torres, and I should know who

491
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: the other guy is because it's clearly Rain Wilson playing

492
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: a real character from Rolling Stone lore, and they're fawning

493
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: all over him, and then the fact checker comes in.

494
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: It's a terribly acted scene. It all happens way too Abroughly,

495
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: they reject his story in like thirty seconds, right even

496
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: though they've been just talking it up for the last

497
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: five minutes, and they completely reverse their position and they

498
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: don't even give him a chance to explain himself. And

499
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: it goes from the cover to the garbage can just

500
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: like that. And for me, the details, the very similitude

501
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: of this movie are what's so key to making it great.

502
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: And Cameron Crow obviously knows this world, he knows the

503
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: world of Rolling Stone, he knows what this process would

504
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,239
Speaker 1: actually be like. And in that moment, it's not even

505
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: him going for an easy laugh. It's just a short cut.

506
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: It's just a shortcut to then get out of that

507
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: scene and get to something else. But I actually think

508
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: it's a really important scene since the whole movie has

509
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: been building up to William actually turning that piece in.

510
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: I understand them wanting to reject it, but how it's

511
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: depicted I don't buy for a second.

512
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 5: No, I don't think. I mean, we have backgrounds in journalism.

513
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 5: I think even if you didn't, you would sniff out

514
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 5: that something's false there, because it goes back and forth

515
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 5: so many times. It's false drama. The other issue is

516
00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 5: that it's a choice of efficiency over atmosphere. All of

517
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 5: those details you're talking about that are in the home scenes,

518
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 5: well they're not going to be built out here, because

519
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 5: all this is there to do is to set up

520
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 5: the conflict between William and Russell and to fracture them

521
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 5: in a way, or at least maybe not even fracture them,

522
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 5: but set up that potential for their reunion and for

523
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 5: the reunion to be in a really satisfying way. So

524
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 5: that's where you see the chess pieces being set up

525
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 5: in the screenplay, and because everything else is so authentic

526
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 5: and fully realized, it does absolutely stand out.

527
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: It's phenomenal William, to be quite honest with you, sophisticated, intelligent.

528
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: Now we only have to cut out a couple of graphs.

529
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 5: Jeff Phebe's mother already sent up our whole shoe box

530
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 5: for my childhood Aboto, but it's really going to look fantastic.

531
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 10: The band just nine percent of the story.

532
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 8: It's a fabrication.

533
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 4: You weren't honest, and worse, you wasted our time.

534
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: Did you talk to Russell Hammond?

535
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 4: Russell Hammond is the one who denied it.

536
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: Now wait a second, denied it.

537
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 4: We're going with the Hill manuscripts in my office.

538
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 6: He's just some fan.

539
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: What do you expect anyway?

540
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: Wait?

541
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: I think that, as we have both said, there are

542
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: a lot of really funny moments in this movie, and

543
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: for the most part, Crow gets the comedy just right.

544
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: And then there are other scenes where he just pushes

545
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: too hard and it becomes too broad one of them.

546
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: I think these are minor quibbles. But this is a

547
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: movie I adore, so I'm gonna quibble with it the

548
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: way we do with the things we love, especially music.

549
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: The scene straight out of Airplane when Sapphire is running

550
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: along the bus and runs into the beam as the

551
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: bus is pulling out of the stadium unnecessary at best.

552
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 5: Okay, but I remember that coming. I remember thinking, Oh,

553
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 5: this mays me gonna do it. This makes you laugh

554
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 5: once because it surprises you. The second time you're like, no,

555
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 5: don't do that. But going back to Fugut's face, his

556
00:27:59,080 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 5: reactions turn.

557
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: No, that's a good point that worth watching.

558
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 4: Now.

559
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: We could probably spend twenty minutes on this scene and

560
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: we're not going to. And actually Jim Plini, who helped

561
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: us so much with that voicemail in our setup, he

562
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: singles this scene out and likes this moment. But if

563
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: you want to talk about music being used poorly in

564
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: a movie, everything about the scene. The only scene, actually,

565
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: Josh in this entire film that really played terribly for

566
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: me on this rewatch was the one right after Penny

567
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: Lane takes all the quayludes and William Miller, as he

568
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: says it boldly goes where many men have gone before.

569
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: It's uncomfortable. It's really uncomfortable, and it's it's made even

570
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: more uncomfortable in a movie that has so many amazing

571
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: musical cues to then have my Sharia more pop up

572
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: on the soundtrack as we cut between William's kind of

573
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: horrified face and these images of Kate Hudson's struggling legs

574
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: and body kind of writhing as they're pumping or stomach.

575
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: I understand, or at least I think I understand that

576
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: it's meant to be ironic. Sure, the music in that

577
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: moment is meant to be ironic, because there's nothing romantic

578
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: about what's happening, and I don't think the crow is

579
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: suggesting there is. But that doesn't make it any more

580
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: satisfying to watch. And it's another moment where I almost

581
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: feel like it's intended to be a joke. It's so

582
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 1: ironic that I don't understand how it can be anything

583
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: but us reacting and laughing, almost like when you can't

584
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: believe what you're watching and you recoil from it a

585
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: little bit and you let out a laugh. That's what

586
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: I feel like he's going for in that moment, which

587
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: I don't understand.

588
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 5: I think the difficulty with that scene, and first of all,

589
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 5: the kiss, the choice to kiss her while she's just

590
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 5: about passed out and maybe dying. Yeah, wrong choice. You

591
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 5: could maybe argue and I'd have to watch it again.

592
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 5: But it was a possibility that crossed my mind as

593
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 5: it was happening and I was feeling uncomfortable, is does

594
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 5: William think this might snaper out of it? I don't

595
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 5: know if that's what the thinking was. Yeah, it's not clear.

596
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's the only moment where he

597
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: can finally fully express himself in his feelings.

598
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, which of course is a huge issue. But what

599
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 5: I do think is the ultimate problem with that entire

600
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 5: sequence is, in one scene that's also doing many other

601
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 5: things with their relationship, Crow is trying to squeeze in

602
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 5: all of the concerns that Francis mcdormand's mother has about

603
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 5: this lifestyle that the movie otherwise completely ignores. I mean,

604
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 5: this is like, and I remember when this came out,

605
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 5: there were people much more familiar with the rock scene

606
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 5: of that era said, this is like the squeakiest, cleanest

607
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 5: version of what was going on. And unless I'm missing

608
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 5: something that's top of mind, you never get a hint of,

609
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 5: you know, the cost of any of this hard living

610
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 5: that is part of the rock and roll lifestyle into

611
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 5: this kind they at it. Francis McDormand talks about it,

612
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 5: and there it's kind of laughed off, like she's the

613
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 5: over concerning mother. Then all of a sudden it all

614
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 5: is supposed to be like here's where she's been discarded

615
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 5: as the sexual plaything. Here's where the overuse of drugs

616
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 5: has severe, serious health costs. And it's like all this

617
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 5: is bearing down on one sequel. It's just too much.

618
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 5: It's it's not going to be able to do the

619
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 5: work that I think Crow wants it to.

620
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: And another scene that is too rushed and is about

621
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: efficiency is the one leading to that, the card scene

622
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: where he bets her and she goes to Humble Pie.

623
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: I didn't believe any of that either, and I know

624
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: that that's also what Crow knows that Life on the Red.

625
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 5: Why didn't you believe it was?

626
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: I just feel like you're saying about the Russell play performance.

627
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 5: It's the performance, but Whistle's demeanor exactly. It doesn't like him.

628
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: Also the character who is their manager, Derek, And I'm

629
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: forgetting that wonderful actor.

630
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 9: Noah Taylor.

631
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Noah Taylor, thank you everything about it, Josh. It

632
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: just it plays out too rushed. It just seems like

633
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: Crow needs to get to that moment where they lose.

634
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 5: Her, so shelfy Field betrays exactly.

635
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: So one other quick comedic moment that just does not

636
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: work for me at all.

637
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 5: I don't think you like this movie.

638
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: It's another punchline, Josh, it's another punchline Crow goes for.

639
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: And it's the scene on the plane, the scene on

640
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: the plane where the drummer finally speaks and confesses to

641
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: the whole group this truth about him, and the moment

642
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: he says it, the plane straightens out, they get out

643
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: of the weather, and everything's fine. It's just a moment

644
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: in a movie filled with these wonderful, funny moments, like

645
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: we've discussed, these moments that feel organic and truthful to

646
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: the characters. It's a moment like the airplane one where

647
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: Crow's just going to laugh too, absolutely just going for

648
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: the joke. He goes for the gag and I wish

649
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't there.

650
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 5: And I don't think we hear from that character no,

651
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 5: but that is that his only line of dialogue.

652
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: That's actually part of the joke too. And of course

653
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: it didn't hit me. It didn't hit me, And we

654
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: could talk about this for a little bit. I put

655
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: in I made the mistake of putting in the extended edition.

656
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 5: First.

657
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: I was watching with Holden and Sophie untitled the version

658
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: that came out like after the DVD release, and I

659
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: started noticing scenes that I was sure, I had never

660
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: seen before. And I look at the running time and

661
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: it's two hours and forty one minutes long. I'm like,

662
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: there's thirty five extra minutes here. Yeah, I got to

663
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: start over. But after I watched this movie again, I

664
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: went through the extended edition and looked for the differences,

665
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: and I wanted to see what they were. And there

666
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: is a scene, it's the one later in the film

667
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: where they make the decision to spike the story. The

668
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: band's talking outside a hotel and they're saying he wrote everything,

669
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: he wrote the truth and Jason Lee's Jeff Beebe's all upset,

670
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: and then we only get this sense that Russell Hammond

671
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: may want to spike the story. He doesn't come out

672
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: and say it. Well, actually, in the extended version of

673
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: the movie, Jimmy Fallon does a bunch of talking there.

674
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: He convinces the band that this is a bad idea.

675
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good scene. You don't need it. The

676
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: movie doesn't need it. But I actually kind of really

677
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: like the scene. And there's a moment with the drummer

678
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: where Billy Crudup says, again, this isn't in the cut

679
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: that we all saw. Billy Crudup looks at him and says,

680
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: you had the right idea the whole time to the drummer,

681
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: and the drummer just kind of rolls his eyes. The

682
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: joke being, of course, that his approach the whole time

683
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: to the journalist was to never say anything. So that's

684
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Is that one moment where he finally

685
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: lets out this confession, the plane straightens out. I don't care,

686
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: it's a bad.

687
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 5: Joke, John Feedovich. I'm looking up here since we're talking

688
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 5: about him in Drummers, which no one would have predicted

689
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 5: in an almost famous review, But he plays the drummer.

690
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: Out of it. I do love that at least the

691
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: drummer and the bass player are real musicians, and you

692
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: can tell their real musicians, not necessarily actors, and they

693
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: do a serviceable job, but they are the real musicians

694
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: on stage that we need, which now brings me to

695
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: the big thing, Josh, the guitarists with mystique doesn't have

696
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: enough of it for this film.

697
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 5: Or I'm really hoping you weren't going to yeah direction,

698
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 5: I can't help it, Billy crowd Up, you don't like

699
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 5: I overall.

700
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: Like his performance, but hear me out here. It's actually

701
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: probably more accurate to say that mystique is all he has.

702
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: He has that kind of a loof charisma, especially in

703
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: contrast to Jeff Bbe in his NonStop, superficial chatter, that

704
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: makes him kind of compelling. You're drawn to him because

705
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: you want to know what's going on in that head.

706
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: But we do need to buy him as a musician

707
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: and as an artist. You mentioned this that he is

708
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: someone who sees himself as separate from the band. He

709
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: is gone past them now, as he himself verbalizes, and

710
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: it's it's just not there on the screen. It's not

711
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: at all. His sound may be incendiary. William Miller may

712
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: have that right, but his playing isn't. And there's a

713
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: reason why Cameron Crow always shoots him from behind.

714
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I was going to always.

715
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: That.

716
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: I don't, and we need it. It's not just the

717
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: Billy c can't pull it off. I think the movie

718
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: needs it because it's constantly underscoring how great of an

719
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: artist he is and why William is so drawn to him.

720
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: And I'm just not sure where they went wrong. I mean,

721
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: maybe they just did deliberately cast for what they thought

722
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: Billy Krudup brought to the role as an actor, and

723
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: they didn't broach it like the Coen Brothers with Oscar

724
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: Isaac in Lewin Davis or some other movies where the

725
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: musicianship really does matter and you have to believe it.

726
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure how with Crow's background and Nancy Wilson,

727
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: his wife's background, being one of the members of Heart,

728
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: one of the founding members of Heart, I don't know

729
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: how they didn't put more of an emphasis on that.

730
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: I just think it's essential, Like I said, from every

731
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: aspect of the band dynamic to that dynamic between William

732
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: and him and his reverence for him. I like the

733
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: performance overall. He's out of place on stage, and I

734
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: think that matters.

735
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 5: I can't go with you there. I think you make

736
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 5: a choice when you're and you've cited some movies that

737
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 5: made the other choice and it works. The choice to

738
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 5: show the art on the screen. I will give you

739
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 5: another one, Patterson, where we see his poems. Yes, Adam

740
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 5: Driver's poems that he's writing and they hold up. Okay,

741
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 5: So that's one choice, show the art, but man, then

742
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 5: it better be good, it better work. The other choice

743
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 5: is to not show the painting. Don't show us the poem, yeah,

744
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 5: and let the performance and the other cinematic elements make

745
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 5: you believe that it is that good.

746
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: We get a fair performance though in this movie, Josh,

747
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 1: they're on stage a fair amount.

748
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 5: They are, but as you pointed out, it's often he's

749
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 5: often from behind. We get that one like strong Chord,

750
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 5: when we first see him covering it and you realize

751
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 5: that he's Yeah, they are covering up, but you also

752
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 5: realize that he's in that chord even he's the driving

753
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 5: force of the band, Like the song doesn't start until

754
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 5: he gives that chord, turns around and joins the others.

755
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 5: So I think there's filmmaking there that makes it work.

756
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 5: And crut Up is a performer who's exactly built to

757
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 5: play a character like this, who doesn't need to show us.

758
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 5: He doesn't need to put on the screen, because in

759
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 5: almost every one of his roles, he's this sort of

760
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 5: guy who he slouches onto the screen because he doesn't

761
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 5: one hundred percent want to be there. He doesn't need

762
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 5: to be there. He's not an actor who has that

763
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 5: that desire for attention that I feel right away, And

764
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 5: I think that's part of Russell's issue too, is he's

765
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 5: there just essentially the end of the day. He's there

766
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 5: to play, right. I mean, he takes advantage of all

767
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 5: these other benefits that it has being a rock star.

768
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 5: But he is exactly who he says to William and

769
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 5: who William believes him to be, and who William worships

770
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 5: because of it. Yeah, so I don't know.

771
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: I think he's a strong That's fine, we disagree. I

772
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: like the performance. I just needed to see some of

773
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: the actual artistry. I really did. It makes sense. I

774
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: can already hear people saying the counter to this is

775
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: the band's supposed to be a mid level rock band

776
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: and their songs are average at best, even if they

777
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily but reason to be that way.

778
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 4: Okay, but he is.

779
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: And that's the unfortunate part I really really is.

780
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 5: I don't know that you're saying you needed to see

781
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 5: more of it. Yeah, but I don't know that we.

782
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: I need to be convinced beyond just the very similitude if.

783
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 5: You want him to kick ass guitar solo, to just

784
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 5: maybe blow your hair back.

785
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to believe as that performer, as that artist

786
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: on stage. So one other quick thing, I did want

787
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: to mention totally random about this film is something did

788
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: click when I was watching the extended edition. I'm sure

789
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: there's another line or there's some intimation of it, but

790
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: in the extended cut there is a moment that's definitely

791
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: not in the theatrical where he has to finish his story.

792
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: He is asked by the other band aids to take

793
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: the clothes and do the laundry. He goes to Russell's room,

794
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: he's told to go away, and he just kind of

795
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: breaks down there in the hallway. They finally do come out,

796
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: Penny Lane and Russell, and they're talking to him and

797
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 1: they're urging him to go on the road, to stay

798
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: on the road and we'll do the interview at the

799
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: next stop, and he says, I want to go home.

800
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: And I was instantly taken back to The Wizard of Oz,

801
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about Judy Garland being lost and

802
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: wanting to go home and she has to go see

803
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: the Wizard, who ultimately disappoints her before she can go home.

804
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: And of course Russell Hammond here is the Wizard who

805
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: completely disappoints him. When they finally do get to or

806
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: finally get to connect here in the scene, and it's

807
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: all about this whole movie is all about life on

808
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: the road versus the real world back at home and

809
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: trying to avoid that type of life. And when Russell

810
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: decides he needs to escape the fantasy of the road

811
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: life and connect with real people in a real place.

812
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 5: Where is he He's in Topeka.

813
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: He's in Kansas. That's right, he goes to Kansas.

814
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 5: Yep.

815
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 10: You know.

816
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: He could have played Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

817
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: and really put a point out there, but Camera Crow doesn't. Overall,

818
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: though the extended edition, if you love this film, it's

819
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: worth watching. But there's a reason why those scenes were

820
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: left on the cutting room floor, which is usually the

821
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: case with the deleted scenes, and some of them are

822
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: more examples of going for the comedy where it doesn't

823
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: really work at all and it's not needed. There are

824
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: a couple moments here there that actually kind of like,

825
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: including one exchange with Lester and William on the street,

826
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: an extension of what we already see where remember he's

827
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: asked by Lester, do you like lou Reid? And he

828
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: says the early stuff, yeah, but now he's trying to

829
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: be Bowie. He should just be himself. And I think

830
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: the next line is do you take drugs? In the

831
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,959
Speaker 1: longer cut, he says, now he just wants to be Bowie,

832
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: should be himself. And Lester says, but if Lou's doing

833
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: Bowie and Bowie's doing Lou, then isn't Lou still doing Lou?

834
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: It's that little that extension I could have watched, of course,

835
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: an entire film that was just those tho, well that's

836
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: just it.

837
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and you know I can sense there's a

838
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 5: repetition too. Have you not watched it? That sense of

839
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 5: homesickness still absolutely comes through in few gets performance and

840
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 5: the scenes we do get so, yeah, you don't need

841
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 5: him actually saying that I want to go home in

842
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 5: that scene. That's probably a decent cut to make.

843
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna get mail if we don't talk a little

844
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: bit more about Kate Hudson.

845
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 5: And yeah, I like to ask you.

846
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: I don't have a great take on her performance here.

847
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: It's one that I do like, but there is a

848
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: part of me that still feels, on watching it again,

849
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: that it's a little forced. It's just a little bit

850
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: forced that that moment where she maybe for me it's

851
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: a little bit like Billy Kredit's performance where I need

852
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 1: to believe the artistry a little bit more. Her artistry

853
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: is the way she walks into a room and owns it.

854
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: She is the center of everything. And we get that

855
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 1: kind of scene where they go into that room early

856
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: in the film at the Hyatt House and she starts

857
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: speaking in French. And for me, Josh, every time I

858
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 1: watch that scene, I completely lose her in that moment,

859
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: and I'm never I'm never swept up in the glory

860
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: and the magic of Penny Lane.

861
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 5: Well, the filmmaking there doesn't really help her because if

862
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 5: I recall, the camera kind of shifts away from her

863
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 5: to it wasn't her about the room when the scene

864
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 5: is supposed to be just directing all the attemption.

865
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: John Tole's camera loves her though. Some of those close

866
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: ups and any of the scenes outside with the sun

867
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: and the way it radiates on her, they make her

868
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: look incredible, just her face and the way they shoot her.

869
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: There's magic in that.

870
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're probably closer to Debbie than who actually was

871
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 5: getting frustrated watching this with me, and she just said

872
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 5: she's always acting. She's always acting, And I guess I

873
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 5: can see that but for one thing, it's incredibly the

874
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 5: role that she's given, I think is a pretty interesting

875
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 5: choice to make when you're telling a story like this.

876
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 5: I realize it does revolve in the love triangle with

877
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 5: the two male characters, but she also benefits, like Francis

878
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 5: McDormand does, as having her own narrative within even that

879
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 5: larger one that maybe related and tied to them, but

880
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 5: also you come to really worry about where she's going

881
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 5: to end up through all of this, and I think

882
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 5: that's the element that Hudson sells when she finally does

883
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 5: let that facade fall a little bit and she's no

884
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 5: longer this bright, shining flower, but more of a trampled

885
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 5: one that's refusing to admit she's been stepped on until

886
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 5: everybody sees it. And then you know, towards those scenes,

887
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 5: and unfortunately they kind of tie in with the one

888
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 5: in the hotel room where she does overdose that's trying

889
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 5: to do other things too, But overall, I still think

890
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 5: she's really strong here and is able to bring that

891
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 5: sort of that lament and loss, that other flip side

892
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 5: that the movie really needs.

893
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 7: So I guess what I'm trying to say is I've

894
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 7: done twice the things I said I've done.

895
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 5: What about your mom?

896
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 7: She always said, marry up, marry someone ground, and that's

897
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 7: why she named me lady.

898
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: She named you lady, Lady Goodman.

899
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 5: Lady Goodman.

900
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 7: That's great, and.

901
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 3: I know all my secrets.

902
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,439
Speaker 1: You got me, believe it or not. There's a lot

903
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: more we could talk about with this film, including the

904
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: tiny dancer scene on the bus, which maybe fortunately doesn't

905
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: actually need any words. Josh, don't really explain.

906
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 5: It works because it doesn't use any words, So why

907
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 5: we waste some on it?

908
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: There you go. When we come back. Enough of us

909
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: amateurs rock critics. Stephen Heyden joins us with his take

910
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: on almost Famous. Stay with us.

911
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 8: This episode is brought to you by dead Man's Wire,

912
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 8: the new film from Roquet Entertainment. Dead Man's Wire is

913
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 8: the incredible true story of the nineteen seventy seven kidnapping

914
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 8: that turned an aspiring entrepreneur into an outlaw folk era.

915
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 8: Directed by legendary filmmaker Gus Van Santro, dead Man's Wire

916
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 8: stars Bill Scarsguard Daker, Montgomery, Carry Always and Mahala, with

917
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 8: Coleman Domingo and al Pacino now playing in select theaters everywhere,

918
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 8: January sixteenth.

919
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 6: God, it's gonna get ugly.

920
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 4: Man.

921
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 6: They're gonna buy you drinks.

922
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 7: You're gonna mean girls.

923
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 6: They're gonna try to fly you places for free off

924
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 6: of you drugs. And I know it sounds great. These

925
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 6: people are not your friends, you know.

926
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 9: These are people want you to.

927
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 6: Write sanctimonious stories about the genius of rock stars, and

928
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 6: they will ruin rock and roll and strangle everything we

929
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 6: love about it, you know, because they're trying to buy

930
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 6: respectability for a form that is glory and righteously dumb.

931
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 6: And you're smart enough to know that.

932
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 5: And the dates seases to be dumb as the day.

933
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: Seems to be real, right, And the late great Philip

934
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: Seymour Hoffman as Lester bangs and almost famous. We're using

935
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: that clip to introduce one of the great contemporary rock writers,

936
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: Stephen Heyden, is back on film spotting. Thank you so

937
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: much for doing the show, Stephen.

938
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 4: Thank you. You know, I can't really compare myself to

939
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 4: the fictional Lester Banks. You know, It's funny because like

940
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 4: when people talk about Lester Banks now, I feel like

941
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 4: everyone pictures Philip Seymour Hoffin as Filter Banks like that

942
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 4: has become the greatest rock critic of all time. Yeah,

943
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 4: like his portrayal pretty enough Luster Banks. Yeah, because I

944
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: think the actual Lester Banks, you know, he had some

945
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 4: great attributes to him, but the Philip Seymour Hoffman version

946
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 4: is a little bit warmer and fuzzier, you know, So

947
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 4: I know that's the one I always think of when

948
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 4: I think of Lester Banks.

949
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious first just what your kind of relationship

950
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: to the movie Almost Famous is when it came out.

951
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: You're just a couple of years younger than Josh and me.

952
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: You would have been just out of school at a

953
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: college for a few years. I imagine embarking on a

954
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: writing career, embarking on a writing career about music, when

955
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: something like Almost Famous comes along and it is in

956
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: your wheelhouse as much as it is. How much were

957
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: you anticipating it? And then did it live up to

958
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: any expectations you had?

959
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 4: Well? I was definitely anticipating it because I was a

960
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 4: Cameron Crowe fan already. I mean, going back to say Anything,

961
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 4: you know, I loved Say Anything as a kid, and

962
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 4: I you know, and really every step along the way

963
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 4: I was I mean, I knew Cameron Crowe as the

964
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 4: screenwriter of Fast Times the Ridgemont High, you know, and

965
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 4: I was aware of his you know background as a

966
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 4: Rolling Stone journalist, you know, as I write about in

967
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 4: my book, I was a big led Zeppelin fan, so

968
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 4: I knew that he had, you know, interviewed led Zeppelin

969
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 4: file LEDs up when when he was a teenager. And like,

970
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: what kind of fantasy is that, like if you are

971
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 4: a teenage fan of led Zeppelin and to see this

972
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 4: guy that had been able to hang out with the

973
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 4: with Jimmy Page and Robbert Plant when he was in

974
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 4: high school. So, you know, like when he when I

975
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 4: heard that he was going to make a movie about

976
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 4: basically his own life and talking about the Rolling Stone stuff,

977
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 4: I mean, it was amazing. I was very excited about

978
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,919
Speaker 4: the movie. And then the movie came out and I

979
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 4: loved I loved the movie so much. I mean, you know,

980
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people love this movie. But

981
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 4: if you are a music writer, if you're a rock critic,

982
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 4: it really is like just a whole other level, I

983
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 4: think where it's like being an investigative reporter and watching

984
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 4: all the presidents met or being a fighter pilot and

985
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 4: watching top gun, you know, or a lawyer and watching

986
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 4: a few good Men. You know, it's like it is

987
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 4: the ultimate sort of fantasy of what you would want

988
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 4: to do. And like you said, I was just starting

989
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 4: out in my career when this movie came out. Almost

990
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 4: Famous came out in two thousand and one, so I

991
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 4: graduated from college in two thousand, so I was already working,

992
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 4: and I was working for my hometown paper at the time,

993
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 4: and I think I knew at that point that the

994
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 4: days where you would go on the road with a

995
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 4: rock band for like three weeks were like long gone,

996
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 4: Like you know, like I was pretty naive about how,

997
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 4: you know, journalism worked. I think still at that point,

998
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 4: but I knew that that was totally a remnant of

999
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 4: the past. But you know, loving seventies rock and being

1000
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 4: a music writer, I mean, this was just the ultimate

1001
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 4: movie for me, and the ultimate sort of fantasy. And

1002
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 4: it's kind of stayed that way ever since. I mean,

1003
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 4: I feel like this movie among music critics sort of

1004
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 4: fashionable to discredit this movie, you know, to say that like, well,

1005
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 4: you know, it's just a fantasy.

1006
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 3: Or.

1007
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 4: It doesn't hold up as well. But every time I

1008
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 4: watch this movie, it totally connects with me. And I

1009
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 4: think Cameron Crowe, whatever you want to say about some

1010
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 4: of his movies after this, you know, maybe being Hit

1011
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 4: or Miss. I feel like the combination of his music

1012
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 4: knowledge and also you know, that sort of romantic spirit

1013
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 4: that he brings to all of his movies, and also

1014
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 4: the humor that he brings it really just it all

1015
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,399
Speaker 4: connects and comes together really beautifully in that movie. I mean,

1016
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 4: I feel like if there was any movie that he

1017
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 4: was going to hit out of the park, it was

1018
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,479
Speaker 4: that one. Yeah, you know, and for me, it totally

1019
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 4: holds up even now when I revisit it.

1020
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, That's what I was wondering as you look at it,

1021
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 5: you know, years after you've gotten into your career and

1022
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 5: it's significantly grown and you've learned the ropes and seen

1023
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 5: how things work, when you revisit it again and it

1024
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 5: still has that authenticity to you, it still still rings

1025
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 5: true in those same ways.

1026
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it is pretty authentic. But

1027
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 4: it also I mean it's a totally different era, you know,

1028
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 4: so there's things that I can't really speak to sure.

1029
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 4: The authenticity of it. I mean, to me, I look

1030
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 4: at it more as a fantasy. You know, and not

1031
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 4: saying that it wouldn't be authentic as someone who was

1032
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 4: a journalist in the seventies, but it's more of like

1033
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 4: what I wish I could have been through, you know,

1034
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 4: I wish I could have had the opportunity to be

1035
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 4: on the road with one band for like weeks and

1036
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 4: to just immerse myself in the world of a band

1037
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 4: and like all the things that they go through, because

1038
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 4: there's no way you get that kind of opportunity now.

1039
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 4: If you can spend a day with a band, that's

1040
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 4: pretty incredible, And I've had the chance to do that,

1041
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 4: you know, here and there right, and that's pretty great.

1042
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 4: But like you know where you're going to, like you're

1043
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 4: going like across the country. It's a different venues, and

1044
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 4: you're like you're in dressing rooms and you're watching the

1045
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 4: lead singer and the guitarists argue about the tour shirt.

1046
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,959
Speaker 4: You know, like you're there's no way a publicist would

1047
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 4: ever let you do that now. But that doesn't detract

1048
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 4: from the movie from me. In a way, it makes

1049
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 4: me value the movie more because I get to I

1050
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 4: can at least live vicariously through William Miller. You know,

1051
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 4: I can I'm not going to be able to hang

1052
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 4: out with still Water, but I can hang out with

1053
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 4: William Miller while he's hanging out with Stillwater and have

1054
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 4: a proxy experience, you know, through this movie.

1055
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to ask you, Stephen about some of

1056
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: the things maybe Almost Famous doesn't get right. I did

1057
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: have a few issues with the movie, as much as

1058
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: I love it. Josh and I discussed them. We agreed

1059
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: for the most part on some of the scenes that

1060
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 1: just don't quite work or feel an authentic We talked

1061
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: about some of the comedy at times being a little

1062
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: bit too broad crow going for punchlines. But the one

1063
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: we disagreed with, and I really do want to hear

1064
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: your take, is the performance of Billy crutt Up and

1065
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: really more the depiction of Russell Hammond and the fact

1066
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: that they clearly cast someone who doesn't really have any

1067
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: musical ability or who isn't playing the guitar, and he's

1068
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: maybe not quite the artist that everyone else makes him

1069
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: out to be and that William seems to think he is.

1070
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that take or disagree?

1071
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 9: Oh?

1072
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 4: Well, I disagree with you, so I guess I agree.

1073
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: With you, Joshua.

1074
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 5: That would be me Stevin because.

1075
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 4: I feel like the fact that Stillwater is not a

1076
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 4: great band, yes, is one of the great things about

1077
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 4: Almost Famous. Yeah, And I think that was a deliberate

1078
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 4: choice by Cameron Crowe. I feel like I watched a

1079
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 4: DVD extra where he talked about writing the Stillwater songs

1080
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 4: his wife Nancy Wilson from Heart and how one of

1081
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 4: the things that they were trying to do when they

1082
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 4: were writing the songs is to make sure the songs

1083
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 4: weren't too good they succeed aus. The idea was that

1084
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 4: this was an up and coming early seventies band, but

1085
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 4: like not a great seventies band, like one of those again,

1086
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 4: one of those Middle American sort of boogie rock bands

1087
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 4: that would have been big at the time but ultimately forgettable.

1088
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, like when they talk about

1089
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 4: him being a great artist, I think the authenticity in

1090
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 4: that is that when whenever you're in a band situation

1091
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 4: and you're talking to artists, you know, there's always that

1092
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 4: one person in the band that everyone talks about being great,

1093
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 4: you know, where they talk about this person with a

1094
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 4: certain amount of awe, and it's the reality that gets

1095
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 4: treated in the sphere of a band. You know where

1096
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 4: there has to be one genius, but you step outside

1097
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 4: of that, and that person rarely is a genius. You know.

1098
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 4: They're just a pretty good musician that somehow form this

1099
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 4: band and convinced everyone around him that he was great.

1100
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 4: And I really think that that is what Crow is

1101
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 4: going for. I don't think the point is that Russell

1102
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 4: Hammond actually is this genius. It's that the people around

1103
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 4: him think that he's a genius. I think of that

1104
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 4: movie like had a sequel that was set like in

1105
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,959
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty or nineteen eighty one, like Russell Hammond would

1106
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 4: probably be on the downswing of his career, you know,

1107
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 4: And I think, I mean, to me, that's how I feel, like,

1108
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 4: that's how I read the movie anyway. So yeah, I

1109
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 4: don't know. I love the sort of like mediocrity of Stillwater. Yeah,

1110
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 4: in the Bank, I think it's in the movie. I mean,

1111
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 4: I think that's totally works and that does feel truer

1112
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 4: to life in a lot of ways that Crow did

1113
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 4: it that way.

1114
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: And you know, one thing, I need to now watch

1115
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: the film kind of with these eyes. It's not just

1116
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: about how the others perceive him, it's potentially how he

1117
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: perceives himself. He says very directly, he thinks that he

1118
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: has more talent than anyone else in the group, but

1119
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: maybe that's just part of his own fantasy, you know,

1120
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 1: as a character, that's one of the ways that he

1121
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: is deluding himself about his abilities.

1122
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean, yeah, and I think that's just

1123
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 4: a common thing if you're in a band, I think,

1124
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 4: if you have you know, the if you're a person

1125
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 4: who actually says that I belong on a stage or

1126
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 4: I deserve to be on the quiver of Rolling Stone,

1127
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 4: I mean, you have to have a certain level of megalomania,

1128
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 4: you know, in order to do that, you know, to

1129
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 4: have that kind of level of self belief. But the

1130
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 4: fact of the matter is is that there are very

1131
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 4: few geniuses. You know, Like most people are not geniuses.

1132
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 4: Most people are just pretty good and they put out

1133
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 4: pretty good music for a while and then they sort

1134
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 4: of drift away, you know, and that's fine, you know,

1135
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 4: but like when you're in the moment, you know, everyone

1136
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 4: is a genius, we're the best, we're gonna be We're

1137
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 4: gonna be the next led Zeppelin, and you go for

1138
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 4: it and you try your best, and then you inevitably

1139
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 4: fail and and you go away. You know, that's the

1140
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 4: trajectory of almost every single rock band ever.

1141
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: I'm always going to tell you the truth. From the

1142
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,919
Speaker 2: very beginning, we said I'm the front man and you're

1143
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 2: the guitarist. With mystique. That's the dynamic we agreed on

1144
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 2: page plant Mick Keith. But somehow it's all turning around.

1145
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: We have got to control what's happening. There's a responsibility here.

1146
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 4: Excuse me.

1147
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: We always love having Stephen on the show. Hope to

1148
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: have him back on soon. He's the music critic at

1149
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: up Rocks and we'll link to his work in our

1150
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: show notes and you can find that in the podcast

1151
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: description as well. If you'd like to become a film

1152
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: Spotting Family member and get access to our complete archive,

1153
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: please do so. You can learn more at filmspotting Family

1154
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: dot com.

1155
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 7: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

1156
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: Bine film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting

1157
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,120
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1158
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,880
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1159
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,000
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1160
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: hire film Spotting archive, going back to two thousand and five.

1161
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,680
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