1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: At around nine forty five. On the night of April 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: twenty fifth, nineteen seventy six, the fifty four year old 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: widow of a Cannon Mills executive was at her home 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: and Conquered, North Carolina when a man grabbed her from behind. 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: She fought him, scratching her attacker so hard that her 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: nails bent backwards, but ultimately he overpowered and raped her. 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: She described her assailant as a light skinned black man 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: with no mention of facial hair, wearing a dark leather 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: coat and a beanie hat. A rape kit was done 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: and the police carefully collected a mountain of forensic evidence. Meanwhile, 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: across town, nineteen year old Ronnie Long was at home 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: with his mother, on the phone with the mother of 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: his own two year old son till ten PM. A 14 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: few days later, Ronnie received a court summons for trespassing 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: in a park after hours. He was wearing a dark 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: leather coat at the time. Police would ask the rape 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: victim to be present in court to see if her 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: attacker was pres and on the day Ronnie, the owner 19 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: of a dark leather coat, was scheduled to appear disguised. 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: She sat in the gallery for two hours in Ronnie's presence, 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: only to identify him as her attacker when his name 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: was called. The state would present a case without any 23 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: of the collected forensic or biological evidence, solely resting their 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: case upon this extremely unorthodox and totally unreliable cross racial 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: identification and Ronnie's unscratched leather coat. For that, Ronnie has 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: been in prison for forty four years. This is wrongful 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: conviction with Jason Flamma. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Today's 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: case Will It's going to upset you. I'm going to 29 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: tell you right now this is a grotesque injustice that 30 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: was inflicted and is still being inflicted on an amazing 31 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: man named Ronnie Long. And we're hoping to hear from 32 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: Ronnie during the recording. He'll be calling in from prison 33 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: where he has been since nineteen seventy six for a 34 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: crime he didn't commit. In this time of COVID, there's 35 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: all sorts of complications, so we're going to try to 36 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: make it work with us now as well is Jamie Lao. 37 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: Jamie is an attorney at Duke University's Wrongful Convictions Clinic, 38 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: and Jamie, thank you for joining us on the show. 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 40 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to do something unusual here. I actually want 41 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: to start at the end. We almost never do that. 42 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: But there's a quote from a judge named James Wynn, 43 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: who's a circuit court judge in the fourth District Court. 44 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: So this is a serious guy and judge when said, 45 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: and I quote, prosecutors clearly had evidence that any defense 46 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: council in the world, not only in nineteen seventy six, 47 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: but in the history of this country would have wanted 48 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: or needed, and which should have been supplied, and yet 49 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 1: we did not provide it. He goes on to say, 50 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 1: what is it about us that we want to prosecute 51 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: and keep people in jail when we know evidence may 52 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: exist that might lead to a different conclusion. Why is 53 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: that so offensive to us now that we want to 54 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: protect illegal activity from forty four years ago? What's the 55 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: harm of looking at the new evidence? He said? When 56 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: did justice leave the process? So we let our rules 57 00:03:54,680 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: blind us to what we all can see? Wow? 58 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: Oh, well, during the course of argument it made us 59 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: optimistic that after forty four years, an end may be 60 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: near to the injustice that occurred in Ronnie's case. It's 61 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: been an incredible difficult journey through the courts to get 62 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: his case to where it was. On May seventh of 63 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: this year, you said we'll start at the end, and 64 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: the end at this point in time was an argument 65 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: on May seventh in front of the full Fourth Circuit 66 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: Court of Appeals, which is fifteen active judges, all have 67 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: been appointed by a President. Judge Winn was making that 68 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: quote in response to arguments from the State of North 69 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: Carolina that more or less was asking the court to 70 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: disregard all the evidence that is now known about in 71 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: this case that was hid from Rani at the time 72 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: of his trial in nineteen seventy six. And Judge Winn 73 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: also discussed sort of the circumstances of nineteen seventy six 74 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: and the conditions of black mails, particularly in the South 75 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy six, and how they were wrongfully convicted 76 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 2: in great numbers. So at the moment Judge Wynn offered 77 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: his viewpoints during the course of the stakes argument, we 78 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 2: knew that we had succeeded in conveying to the court 79 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: the seriousness and the magnitude of the injustice that occurred 80 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: in Ronnie's case. 81 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: As promised, we got a phone call from Ronnie and 82 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: I must warn you that there was a poor connection 83 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: with the prison, so ry's a little hard to hear. 84 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: But what he has to say needs to be heard, 85 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: so please bear with us. 86 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: You have a prepaid call. You will not be charged 87 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 3: for this call. This call is from an inmate aunt 88 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 3: Albemarle Correctional Institution. This call will be monitored and recorded. 89 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 3: To accept this call, prins stive now to decline this call. 90 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 4: Hang on. 91 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: Thank you for you think Globe Tail link. 92 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: Hello, Hi Ronnie, thanks for calling me. I know we 93 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: have limited time, so let's get right into it. Now. 94 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: You grew up and conquered North Carolina, right, seven brothers 95 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: and sisters. Can you tell me a little bit about 96 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: your life before all of this horrible stuff happened. 97 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 4: I paid sports when I was in high school, right 98 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 4: waiting to come forward. See, I learned how to link 99 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 4: with such song. That's kind of little work I was 100 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 4: doing with my dad. I would go to work with 101 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 4: him sometime, take money with him. I had a son. 102 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 4: I spent a lot of time with my son to 103 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 4: cool in the game the game when I got the 104 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 4: street with three. 105 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: Now I read about this one time before you had 106 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: your son, way before the incident that landed you in prison. 107 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: There was an encounter that you once had with some 108 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: police officers. They pulled up on you, harassed you a bit, Hey, 109 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: you know what you're doing around here? Boy type of thing, 110 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: and you responded, isn't this America all right? I have 111 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: free to walk on this sidewalk? That right. 112 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 4: I was coming from a girl hell, I was coming 113 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 4: from a girl out one night. The area that I 114 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 4: was in he was going to listen like area, So 115 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 4: I'm coming home one night? The two white couple up 116 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 4: behind me that the other were you coming from? What 117 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 4: are you doing in this area here? Pat? Did you 118 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 4: walk home here? They took me, trust me to be 119 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 4: downtown for me in a room, I stated, gave up 120 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 4: too loud, but also gave up, told me too, you 121 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 4: can leave. I just gotta walk up, went. 122 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: Home, And that's it seems to be how he got 123 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: to be on the radar of the local authorities. And 124 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: then on the Faithful Day of Sunday, April twenty fifth, 125 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, at around nine forty five pm, a 126 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: wealthy white, fifty four year old widow of a Canon 127 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 1: Mills executive was burged and raped an awful, awful crime, 128 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: and Canon Mills was a major employer in the area, 129 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: and that name's going to come to play a big 130 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: role in this story. The victim said that while she 131 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: was preparing food for a beach trip the following day, 132 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: a black man snuck into her home and grabbed her 133 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: from behind. She said the intruder told her that he 134 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: only had fifteen minutes as his friends were waiting for 135 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: him outside like a horror movie, and he proceeded to 136 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: rape her. She later described her attacker as quote yellow 137 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: looking and quote again not blue black, maybe wearing gloves, 138 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: a beanie hat, no mention of any facial hair, and 139 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: a dark leather coat. She also described the violent struggle 140 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: where she scratched her attacker so hard that her fingernails 141 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: bent backward, which would definitely have left the mark on 142 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: that leather coat. The victim said that whenever she tried 143 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: to move, he would slam her head against the ground. 144 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: Then the phone rang, startling the attacker, who gathered his 145 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: things and left through the front door. Victim then rushed 146 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: over to her neighbors naked, where she was able to 147 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: call the police, and they arrived around ten pm. The 148 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: victim has since passed away. But that being said, she 149 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: was rushed to the hospital for a rape kit, and 150 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: the doctor performed all the tests and collected all the 151 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: biological evidence and everything else. What happened next is that 152 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: Detective Eisenhower of the Concord Police Department arrived at the 153 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: victim's home around ten thirty. He photographed the house and 154 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: began collecting evidence, including latent fingerprints, carpet samples, suspect hair 155 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: paint samples, as well as pieces of the victim's clothing 156 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: and partially burned matches, and he later brought them to 157 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: the State Bureau of Investigation office at Raleigh for examination. 158 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: He also lifted a latent shoe print from a column 159 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: near the porch. Now this is important later as nothing 160 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: but the shoe print was ever the discussed at trial. 161 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: And before we go any further, we need to state 162 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: clearly that Ronnie had a solid alibi, and remember the 163 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: crime took place at nine five. Ronnie, at around nine thirty, 164 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: you were at home with your mother, waiting on your 165 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: father to get back with the car so you could 166 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: head out to a party in Charlotte. You were on 167 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: the phone with the mother of your child. Your mom 168 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: hopped on the phone a few times to say hello 169 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: to her grandson. 170 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 5: Right, yeah, he on the. 171 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 4: Phone too, but you can't all we understand what he 172 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 4: say when he was trying to talk. He on the 173 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 4: phone to my mom was on the phone, on the phone. 174 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 4: I'm up on the phone and I'm waiting on my 175 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 4: dad to come back with the card. Hey, I got 176 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 4: that call o'clock one on to a party and shower. 177 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: So Jamie, can you take us back to how Ronnie 178 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: came to be implicated in it and how he could 179 00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: have possibly been convicted in spite of no evidence of 180 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: none zero. 181 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ronnie, very much like other young black men in 182 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six and still today, was harassed by law 183 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 2: enforcement officers. That harassment directly led to what ultimately becomes 184 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 2: this forty four year old wrongful conviction. On April twenty fifth, 185 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: the victim is assaulted and raped in her home. A 186 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: few days after that, Ronnie receives a trespassing charge at 187 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 2: the local park that was adjacent to his home when 188 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: he shouldn't have been there, and during that time it 189 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: appears that he was observed wearing a black leather coat. 190 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: The officer who stopped him. Recalled that the person who 191 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 2: was described by the victim had been wearing a dark 192 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: leather coat on the night of April twenty fifth when 193 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: she gave a description to law enforcement, and despite Ronnie 194 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: not matching other very prominent features that were included in 195 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 2: her description, the officer decided that perhaps he was the 196 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: individual who had assault at the victim. I mean it 197 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: was significant the disparities between her description of her assailant 198 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: and Ronnie. She described her assailant as a yellow black male. 199 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: In the South at the time, to describe somebody as 200 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: a yellow black male meant a light skinned black person 201 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: of mixed origin. She never mentioned her assailant having facial hair. 202 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: Ronnie had facial hair, and disputed that he had facial 203 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: hair on April twenty fifth, nineteen seventy six, when she 204 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: was assaulted. So despite him having a different complexion having 205 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: facial hair, where she never described facial hair, he becomes 206 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: a suspect. Officers then go to her home and says, 207 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: we have reason to believe that the individual who had 208 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 2: assaulted you will be in the courtroom on this date 209 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: fifteen days later, May tenth, nineteen seventy six, and we'd 210 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 2: like you to come down to the courtroom to see 211 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: if you can identify the person who attacked you there. 212 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: So immediately in her mind she thinks they've done some 213 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: investigation and have identified a likely suspect. But all they 214 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: had done is made the connect to the fact that 215 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: Ronnie had a black leather coat, similar to what she described. 216 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 2: The real curious thing with respect to law enforcement asking 217 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: the victim to go to the courthouse to try and 218 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: make an identification is they had a picture of long 219 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 2: that they could have shown her when they went to 220 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 2: her and asked her to come to the courthouse, and 221 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: they could have did it in a fair procedure, or 222 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: as fair as these identification procedures can be, with the 223 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: inclusion of fillers to ensure that she's selecting him from 224 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: memory and not because he looks most like the attacker 225 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 2: or because she's being presented a suspect in a very 226 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 2: suggestive way. They elected to forego that. So she's brought 227 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: to the courthouse dressed in a disguise because she's fearful 228 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: that if her attacker was there, he'd recognize her. She 229 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 2: describes during her testimony being terrify. She sits in the 230 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 2: courtroom for an hour and a half Inglong's presence and 231 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: fails to identify him. And only when his name is 232 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: called and he walks up to resolve the trespassing charge, 233 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: which was dismissed that day, did she say he's the one. 234 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: But it's telling because we later learned during her testimony 235 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: at trial that there were only twelve black males in 236 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: the courtroom. She quickly eliminated several of them because they 237 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 2: had afros where they were older. She described one as 238 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: being old and hunched over, and she says that he 239 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: was the only one that looked remotely similar to her attacker. 240 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: And identification evidence is already flawed and highly unreliable, but 241 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: here you can just take her words that she's just 242 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: picking the person that's most likely to be her attacker 243 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: that's present in the courtroom so she can end the 244 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: experience where she's traumatized and terrified, so that in essence 245 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 2: becomes the only in Singing so Long. And here we are, 246 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: forty four years later, trying to undo that identification. 247 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: And I'm glad you brought that up, Jamie, because we 248 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: know the most unreliable eyewitness identification is cross racial. This 249 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: fits exactly into that category, and then, of course there's 250 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: still room for it to get worse. So Ronnie, take 251 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: us back to the day that you were in court 252 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: for the misdemeanor trespassing charge, when you had no idea. 253 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: You couldn't have had any idea that there was a 254 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: rape victim in the gallery who was being led to 255 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: believe that her attacker was in the courtroom that day. 256 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: And the craziest thing is that you two were in 257 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: each other's presence for nearly two hours before she idd you. 258 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, they had a misdemeanor, just passed the child. 259 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 4: So I go downtown o'clock when you call my name, 260 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 4: I strewed up with walk in my day. This is 261 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 4: when the police say. This is when they say that 262 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 4: she ide me. The same two detectives that was on 263 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 4: this case, that been on this tape the whole time 264 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 4: they were sitting in the jury Fox, she testified that 265 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 4: it was it got me twelve black in the court room. 266 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 4: He's none of these people in here looking like me. 267 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 4: She's supposed to be looking far a young black man 268 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 4: that assaulted her, But she distinctly stated that she's looked 269 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 4: around and looked around and looked around into the trans 270 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 4: trip and I didn't see nobody. I want you to 271 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: hold you can think about this. She said. She sitting 272 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 4: in the courtroom man for over an hour and a 273 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 4: half looking around, and she never didn't see anyone. The people. 274 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 4: Why she didn't see anyone else said because of the 275 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 4: description that she gave the police for the light skinned 276 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 4: black man with no hand on his face. I'm sitting 277 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 4: up in there and you understanding saying God's skin, it 278 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 4: would hang on my favor. So I didn't match another 279 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 4: the description your nouner said that she was looking for. 280 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: That's why come she couldn't pick me out. You pick 281 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 4: me out here stairs when they called my name, Run 282 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 4: along to the front, run along if you court, I said, yeah, 283 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 4: we've come down front. That's what she says. She recognized. 284 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 4: She ain't recognized me. She's reping down my name. You go, 285 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 4: number one, How are you gonna sit in the courtroom 286 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 4: stairs a whole hour and a half. They were eleven 287 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 4: ain't but twelve blacks in there. You gonna sit in 288 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 4: there for a whole hour and a half and you 289 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 4: don't see this young black man that you're looking for. 290 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 4: The reason you don't see it because She's like, yeah, 291 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 4: he got he got head on his face. The court 292 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 4: asked this woman, could the police department that I told 293 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 4: you to pick run alone? She said they could, Hell, 294 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 4: I don't know. That's in the trench. They could, Hell, 295 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 4: I don't know. 296 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: So the victim makes this shaky identification, tells the detectives. 297 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: But you've got no idea that any of this is 298 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: going on. You're there for this misdemeanor charge, which gets dismissed, 299 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: and then you go home. But that was not the 300 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: last you'd see of law enforcement that day. 301 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 4: I walkeroom, went home with the sleep I'll wake up 302 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 4: two hours later, my mom jelly. Police back down in 303 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 4: the morning. 304 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: When Ronnie was picked up, he was not told that 305 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: he was suspected of this raid. Instead, he arrived at 306 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: the station at six forty five pm, was read his rights, 307 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: and the police claimed that they asked permission to search 308 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: his car, but they hadn't, and then they testified to 309 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: finding gloves, matchbooks, and a beanie in the car. Ronnie 310 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: maintains that the gloves were his, but the beanie was not. 311 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 4: Ill follow the police downtown. I used to drive with glos, 312 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 4: so when I get out of Connie with all speak 313 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 4: of my phone, my sun Valley. I get out the car, 314 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 4: I locked the door. I got on the black of 315 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 4: the other jacket. Yeah, I'm going there. They killed me. 316 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 4: I'm on suspecting of raping VERTI I'll take my keys up. 317 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 4: They picked my keys up the front out of the 318 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 4: door with me, the train two, the ticket that was 319 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 4: in the courtroom that morning. Yo, man, without going with 320 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 4: my keys, bring my keys back hill. They're just going 321 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 4: to look in your car. You ain't got nothing to 322 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 4: hat now, But yuh ain't gave you permission to look 323 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 4: at my car either. So they go down look at 324 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 4: my car. They come back to me and they got mama. 325 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 4: She took my other jacket off of me. Ys mack. 326 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 4: It's a mother or stuff. They had my glove, they 327 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 4: had lime green to bargain that I had never seen 328 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: a dead in my life. 329 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: And for anyone who doesn't know it's a boggin, I 330 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: didn't know it's a boggan is a hat like the 331 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: one described by the victim in this case. So the 332 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: police come back with what they claim to have found 333 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: in your car. Go ahead, Ronnie, they said. 334 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 4: If you got just got your car, if you won't 335 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 4: beat hide them back when we take complete our investigations, 336 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 4: sign your name my hands. You gotta looks on the 337 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 4: people for me to sign. And they said, sign your 338 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 4: name my hand if you won't beat behind them. Okay, 339 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 4: I know. I want my jacket back. Want I don't 340 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 4: want my glove. I don't know who it is, but 341 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 4: I don't know. I want my jacket and glove. So 342 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 4: I signed the people come to find out as a 343 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 4: consent for the search for cor. 344 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: So they tricked you in order to make it seem 345 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: like you consented, and that way it would have made 346 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: the search technically legal. They planted the lime green patter toboggan. 347 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 4: Now the police gotta line to eat the bog in 348 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: big court, saying that this is to happen, that the perpetrator. 349 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 4: I'm telling my lug and then I don't go mad 350 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 4: that to you, man, I ain't ever heard of that. 351 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 4: That that ain't gonna head. My log is put the 352 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 4: inside out. It's really is looking at it. Really you 353 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 4: got a line when I had it, I got black. 354 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 4: It's man an, Yeah, I don't know what's the state 355 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 4: would never let me be, I won't they did. 356 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: So we now come to the conclusion that the police 357 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: planted this beanie in the car so that they could 358 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: have another you know, well really another there is no 359 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: other evidence, so that they could have something that they 360 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: could use against him. And I say something they could 361 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: use against him, because remember all that evidence Detective Eisenhower 362 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: collected from the crime scene. Well, if the red hair 363 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: is that they found in the beanie, that are clearly 364 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: not Ronnie's hair. Bother you just wait because it's about 365 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: to get way worse again. The crime scene evidence comes 366 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: back from the statepue of Investigation in Raleigh, and none 367 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: of it matches Ronnie. But since the rich white widow 368 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: of an executive of one of the biggest employers in 369 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: town just idd him as her rapist rather than just 370 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: doing the right thing, the just thing, the evidence never 371 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: even made it to the prosecutor's office, let alone the defense. 372 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: So the police withheld the evidence from both the defense 373 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: and the prosecution. Let me just repeat that the police 374 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: withheld the evidence not just from the defense, but from 375 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 1: the prosecution, just in case the prosecution might have decided, hey, 376 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: wait a minute, we got the wrong guy. That the 377 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: police decided to play judge jury, and I mean they 378 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: might as well played executioner because poor Ronnie's been in 379 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: prison for forty four fucking years. I mean, this is yeah. 380 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: I mean, just when I think I've heard it all, 381 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: and Jamie, you're living this day in and day out. Now, 382 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: I mean, what can you add to that? Because it 383 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: gets worse from there? 384 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: Right, So, they not only tested this evidence and it 385 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 2: didn't match long. When it didn't match Long, they made 386 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 2: the decision that they wouldn't turn it over to the 387 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: defense or the prosecution, which we contending. We argued this 388 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: at the May seventh hearing that we had in this case, 389 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: that there's a possibility that the prosecutor could have decided 390 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 2: not to go forward with this case at all had 391 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: he known that all the forensic test results pointed away 392 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: from Ronnie and towards another suspect. There was suspect hair 393 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 2: collected brought to Raleigh, examined by the crime lab, determined 394 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: by the crime lab to be, in the parlance of 395 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: the lab report of Negroid or Mongolian origin, meaning that 396 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: it came from a person who was either Asian or black. 397 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 2: And we know that that hair that was collected that 398 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 2: was suspect hair didn't match Long. If it didn't match Long, 399 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 2: then the suspect, the person who should have been incarcerated 400 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: for forty four years. There's the evidence of who that 401 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: person's identity is. And it's remarkable in the fact that 402 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,239 Speaker 2: they believe this would be probative. They collected because they 403 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: thought it would be probative. All indications are that it 404 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: did come from the suspect, but when it didn't match Long, 405 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: they kept it from everybody, so the prosecutor would go 406 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: forward on the basis of this completely unheard of identification procedure. 407 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 2: And I have to tell you, Jason, I'm very skeptical 408 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 2: whenever any client offers a suggestion that evidence may be planted. 409 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: But as you look at this case and what officers 410 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: did keeping evidence away from the prosecutor, it really makes 411 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: you stop and say, oh, my goodness, this is completely 412 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 2: consistent with the behaviors of the officers in this case. 413 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: And then when Long says those are my gloves. But 414 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: I've never seeing that beanie in my life, you think, 415 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 2: why would he acknowledge owning one but not the other. 416 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 2: And the only explanation is because the officers in this 417 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 2: case set out to ensure Long was convicted that included lying, hiding, 418 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: and with the beanie manufacturing evidence to ensure that he 419 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: would spend the rest of his life incarcerating convicted for 420 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 2: this crime, and for whatever reason, the State of North 421 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 2: Carolina is just willing to ignore that altogether and continue 422 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 2: to argue that Long is guilty of this crime. 423 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: It's crazy, right, And there's no evidence that he ever 424 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: owned a beanie. There's no photographs of him and a beanie. 425 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: There's no nobody knew about any beanie. There's also the 426 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: fact that the victim had fought her attacker with all 427 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: of her strength, and she had scratched the attacker so 428 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: hard that her own nails bent back. 429 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 4: You take a leven chack, did you splatch? Did you 430 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 4: look at them? A microscope? Ain't no wind? Will you 431 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 4: can sling? That's media? Yeah, microscope step, But yet steal, 432 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 4: she said, that's the coat, that's the jaging, that's the perpetrator. 433 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 2: Wolf. 434 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 4: They won no cludges, meet, they won no sludget sircum. 435 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: Well, there's a good explanation for there being no scratches 436 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: on you, your face, your leather coat. It's painfully simple. 437 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: It's because you weren't there that night. But she I 438 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: d'd you. They were trying to make the square fit 439 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: the circle, and they were willing to bend the rules, 440 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: bend break the rules. They planted evidence in your car 441 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: and tried everything they could to make sure that they 442 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: got a conviction in this case. And people were out 443 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: in the street protesting as well. 444 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 4: Right. 445 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: So, but when they arrested you, they offered you a 446 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: plea deal so they could make all of that public 447 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: outcry just go away. 448 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 4: No, they locked me up when they love me, or 449 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 4: they offered me a seven year tree. They offered me 450 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 4: a seven year of tree, told me that I would 451 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 4: be back home in three years, and they made it 452 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 4: explicitly clear that if I didn't take the tlee, if 453 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 4: there was daryming for my life. So, I mean, I 454 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 4: got people in the street, gem the straight, I got 455 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 4: my family, I did the street. I got people in 456 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 4: the street fills. They said it's support. I knew exactly 457 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 4: what they wanted, man. They wanted me to pe feed 458 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 4: out to that charge so they could put it on 459 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 4: front pains old letters, long tea. This was a great job. 460 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 4: So always, y'all, I got hollering and yelling and throwing things, 461 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 4: unsaying he's going home. But I knew I couldn't do 462 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 4: that because number one, my dad said, I didn't raise 463 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 4: y'all say you did something when you didn't do it, 464 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 4: I turned down the tree. So I was facing yesterday. 465 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 4: God was a serious lead to the same year, State Carolina. 466 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: But then we get to the trial itself, and this 467 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: is going to shock exactly no one. But the jury 468 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: was all white. Let me just say that again. This 469 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: is an all white jury Conquered North Carolina nineteen seventy six. 470 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: The jury was handpicked by the Cabres County sheriff. And 471 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: get this, three of the members of the jury worked 472 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: for Canon Mills. And you'll remember that the victim's husband 473 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: worked at Canon Mills as well. 474 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: So the jury chairperson at the time created a master 475 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 2: list of jurors. To get us summons for jury duty, 476 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: you had to be on that list. And prior to 477 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: Long's trial, he brought that list of master jurors first 478 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: to the sheriff and allowed the sheriff to strike through 479 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 2: any person on that list that the sheriff deemed unfit 480 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: for jury duty. He then brought the list to the 481 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: conquered police department, and testimony is that the chief of 482 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: police and some of his deputies sat there and did 483 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 2: the same. So law enforcement, the very people who investigated 484 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 2: this case, ended up lying about this case. About the 485 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: evidence collected in this case played a role in the 486 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: selection of the jurors who ultimately found mister Long guilty. 487 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: And in this trial, every single witness that testified for 488 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: the state of North Carolina was white. Every single witness 489 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 2: that testified on behalf of Ronnie Long to demonstrate his innocence, 490 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 2: to prove his alibi, to show that he was nowhere 491 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 2: near the victim's home on the night this attack occurred, 492 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 2: was black. And by selecting an all white jury in 493 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 2: segregated Concord, North Carolina, in nineteen seventy six, ultimately what 494 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 2: we had was a circumstance where the jurors were being 495 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 2: asked to decide between finding their neighbors truthful or finding 496 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 2: the people from the other side of the tracks, the 497 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: black side of town. They would have had to find 498 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: them truthful over the officers who are their neighbors, who 499 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: were the people who lived in their community, their side 500 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 2: of town. That's what it would have taken to find 501 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: Long not guilty. And of course we all know how 502 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: it played out. 503 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: And this courtroom there was a racially divided court, with 504 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: blacks on one side and whites on the other. And 505 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: of course, now the really awful result, but predictable result 506 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: of this sham trial, was that on October first, nineteen 507 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: seventy six, with his whole life in front of him, 508 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: Ronnie Long was convicted and sentenced to two life terms. 509 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: His mother fainted, and a riot nearly ensued. Long himself 510 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: has called his conviction a quote modernized lynching sanctioned by law. 511 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 4: When they found me guilty, they started fighting in the courtroom. 512 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 4: They started fighting. Man I shoted, I started moving. My 513 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 4: mom stopped, said bed me. She grabbed me afield, She said, 514 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 4: who anto, Julie holds. 515 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 5: Love? 516 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 4: The still right there? Get that, man. 517 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 5: I won't even rally the night and listen to this. 518 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: So after Long's conviction, concord bubbled over with fury. The 519 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: next day, hundreds of protesters descended on the cities downtown, 520 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: staging a demonstration in front of the courthouse, and for 521 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: days fifty or more police officers in full riot gear 522 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: stationed themselves at a nearby park, and the least chief 523 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: arned protesters that violence would be met with force. So 524 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: I mean, nothing has changed. And the bravery, the courage 525 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: of these people who protested putting themselves in grave danger 526 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: from the same police force that had just framed their friend, 527 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: their neighbor, their fellow human. 528 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 2: I had spoke with his trial counsel, Jim Fuller prior 529 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: to the May seventh arguments, and he said, Jamie, I've 530 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: only been maced one time in my life, and it 531 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 2: was after the verdict when outbursts occurred in the courtroom 532 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 2: and law enforcement decided to clear out all the supporters 533 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 2: of LNG. And he said officers were beating a young 534 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 2: man and he tried to pull the officers away, and 535 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 2: they turned and sprayed him Long's trial attorney in the 536 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: face with mace. 537 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: Nothing has changed. 538 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 5: It's really. 539 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: It's really hard to you know. I mean, I'm trying 540 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: to be optimistic, and you know, I think we are 541 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: on the verge of change, but it's remarkable how much 542 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: things are as they were forty four years later, the 543 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: post conviction litigation history. Can you walk us through that, Jamie, 544 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: because it's quite extraordinary in and of itself. 545 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: It's been a long process. So it began in the 546 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: nineties after he was convicted, he filed his first what 547 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: we call here in North Carolina emotions for Appropriate Relief. 548 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 2: They're the post conviction review petitions that initiate post conviction proceedings, 549 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: and it was related to the jury. He was ruled 550 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 2: against during the course of those proceedings. That was then 551 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 2: appealed in federal court arguing the same things, that he 552 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 2: didn't commit the crime and that his trial was unfair 553 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: in part because of the way in which the jury 554 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 2: was seated, and he was ruled against sing federal court. 555 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 2: Over the years, he tried to get people to help him, 556 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: and then in two thousand and five, the Innocence Project 557 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 2: that the University of North Carolina took interest in the case, 558 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 2: and the present litigation began. They found an attorney to 559 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 2: work with Ronnie. That attorney did all the work necessary 560 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 2: to uncover not just the lies, but the evidence that 561 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,720 Speaker 2: was withheld from Long at the time of his trial, 562 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 2: and they went into state court and held an evidentiary 563 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 2: hearing where the judge hurt testimony related to the withholding 564 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 2: of this evidence. That's a real interesting proceeding because the prosecutor, 565 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: the individual who tried Ronnie Long in nineteen seventy six, 566 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 2: took the stand and testified for long that he didn't 567 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 2: have copies of these reports. He didn't know that this 568 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: testing was done. Had he known that it was done, 569 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 2: he would have required that it been turned over. He 570 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 2: also talked about a sexual assault kit that we haven't 571 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 2: ben talked about, that they collected one from the victim 572 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 2: and then it subsequently disappeared. 573 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:21,879 Speaker 1: Jesus yeah. 574 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 2: So he testified for long, but despite all that, the 575 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: judging state court ruled against Long and found that he 576 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 2: hadn't proven that his ranks were violated. The case then 577 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 2: went to the North Carolina Supreme Court. There are seven 578 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 2: justices on the North Carolina Supreme Court. One set out 579 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 2: the decision, and as a result, the Supreme Court split 580 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: three to three. So Tye went to the state. Ronnie's 581 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 2: conviction was upheld and he was still incarcerated. It then 582 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 2: went to an organization in North Carolina called the North 583 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 2: Carolina Innocents Inquiry Commission, and they reviewed the case and 584 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: their focus was trying to find the sexual assault kit 585 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 2: that was collected and disappeared. They did not find it, 586 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 2: but they actually discovered that in two thousand and eight 587 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 2: during the course of those proceedings, officers led again by 588 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 2: saying that they had no physical evidence remaining in the 589 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 2: case in their custody, when in fact they had all 590 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 2: the late fingerprints that had been collected from the crime scene. 591 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 2: That's when I got involved, and as you're reacting to, 592 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 2: how just atrocious and an affront to justice this case is. 593 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 2: I had the same initial reaction the other attorneys I 594 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 2: work with at the Wrongful Convictions Clinic. We worked to 595 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 2: file another Habeast petition on Ronnie's behalf. It was dismissed 596 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: because the district Court said that we had failed to 597 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 2: bring the fingerprint related evidence in state court prior to 598 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 2: filing our Habeast petition. Of course, it would have been 599 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 2: brought in state court had it not been hid during 600 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 2: the time that the state post conviction litigation was ongoing. 601 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 2: We appealed that dismissal. The Fourth Circuit reversed and sent 602 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: it back to the district court. Then the district Court 603 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 2: once again granted a dismissal on behalf of the state. 604 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 2: The district court said that while we had shown that 605 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 2: evidence was withheld, that it was favorable to long, but 606 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 2: that the state court was reasonable in determining that the 607 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 2: evidence was immaterial to the outcome of his trial, so 608 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 2: it was dismissed again and we appealed that decision, which 609 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,919 Speaker 2: came in July of twenty eighteen. The Fourth Circuit Court 610 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 2: of Appeals heard oral arguments in May of twenty nineteen. 611 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 2: A panel entered a decision two to one saying that 612 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 2: Long had failed to demonstrate the materiality of the evidence 613 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 2: since the State Court again was reasonable. That decision came 614 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: down in January of twenty twenty. We then asked for 615 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 2: full court review. It's called a petition for rehearing in bank. 616 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 2: And what that triggers is that full fifteen judge review 617 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 2: of the case. The court agreed to hear it while 618 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 2: sitting in bank and next to the argument we had 619 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 2: in on May seventh of twenty twenty. So it's been 620 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: a long fight to get to the point where we 621 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 2: know that the judges are at least, you know, seeing 622 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 2: the injustices here that we saw as evidence by the 623 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,240 Speaker 2: statement of Judge Win during the course of those oral arguments. 624 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: And so here we are ending where we started with 625 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: the words of Judge Win expressing his frustration over how 626 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: this happened to Ronnie, amongst so many others. I hope 627 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: you all feel that same frustration and anger right now, 628 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: Judge Wynn said, quote, prosecutors clearly had evidence that any 629 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: defense council in the world, not only in nineteen seventy six, 630 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: but in the history of this country would have wanted 631 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: or needed, and we should have been supplied, and yet 632 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: we did not provide it. What is it about us 633 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 1: that we want to prosecute and keep people in jail 634 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: when we know evidence may exist that might lead to 635 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: a different outcome. Why is that so offensive to us 636 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 1: now that we want to protect illegal activity from forty 637 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: four years ago? End quote? And of course he was 638 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,439 Speaker 1: referring to the illegal activity on the part of law 639 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: enforcement in this case. Quote what's the harm of looking 640 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: at the new evidence? He said? When did justice leave 641 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: the process? So we let our rules blind us to 642 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: what we all can see? End quote. You know the 643 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: fact that the cops took all the evidence from the 644 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: crime scene and never turned it over alone, that should 645 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: be it. They knew it wasn't him from the beginning. 646 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: It just hurts my heart to think of this life, 647 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: this poor fucking guy. Since we recorded this podcast with 648 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: Jamie and Ronnie, I read a quote from Ronnie's mother 649 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,439 Speaker 1: saying that she is just waiting. This is a quote 650 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: from her, just waiting on Ronnie to get out. God 651 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: let me live to see him get out of there. 652 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: End quote. Since nineteen seventy six, Ronnie's grandmother, his two sisters, 653 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: and his father have all passed, and unfortunately they were 654 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: joined by his mother on July eleventh, twenty twenty Rest 655 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: in peace. The family asked Jamie to speak at the 656 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,720 Speaker 1: funeral about Ronnie's case. Ronnie still has his wife, Ashley 657 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 1: Long waiting for him. She started a petition on change 658 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 1: dot org that I've already signed, asking Governor Cooper to 659 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: commute Ronnie's sentence. I hope you'll join me. There's a 660 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: link in the episode description. Just scroll down, click and 661 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: let's bring him home. Now to the episode as it 662 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: was previously recorded. Now it comes to the closing of 663 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: the show, which of course I call closing arguments. This 664 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: is where Jamie, I thank you again for being here, Ronnie, 665 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: thank you for calling in. And now I'm going to 666 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: turn off my microphone and leave my headphones on and 667 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: just listen. Jamie, thank you. 668 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 2: Jason. What I would add is the listeners here, I'm 669 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 2: sure have heard about cases that involve hiding exculpatory evidence. Separately, 670 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 2: they've heard of cases involving misconduct and potential lies told 671 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,359 Speaker 2: on the witness stand, cases involving racial injustice. And here 672 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 2: we have everything togethering one. We have the original trial 673 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 2: prosecutor testifying on behalf of the defense, acknowledging that materials 674 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 2: were not only hitting from the defense but from him 675 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 2: as well. We have evidence pointing to another individual as 676 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 2: the perpetrator. We have evidence of misconducting lies from officers. 677 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 2: And despite all that, forty four years later, Ronnie Long 678 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 2: sis in a prison in North Carolina. I ask everybody 679 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 2: listening to this to seize this particular moment that we 680 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 2: are living through in history by taking one action among 681 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 2: what I hope is many, to help Ronnie achieve justice 682 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 2: in his freedom. To do that, I hope not only 683 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 2: that you'll go to change dot org and sign the petition, 684 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 2: but also contact the Governor of North Carolina, Roy Cooper. 685 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 2: His email is Roy dot Cooper Cooper at NC dot 686 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 2: gov and tell him to free Ronnie Long now. Because 687 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 2: while we prove his innocence in court, which we plan 688 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 2: to do, the governor can make this injustice right tomorrow 689 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 2: by commuting long sentence to time served and letting him 690 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 2: walk free. And it's forty four years past due for 691 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 2: that to occur. And I hope you all will send 692 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 2: a message to the governor that if he truly believes 693 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 2: that black lives matter, that lives matter, that he would 694 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: use his executive authority to see that Long goes free, 695 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 2: not next week, not next month, that Ronnie needs to 696 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 2: be free. 697 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 4: Now. 698 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, Jason, Yeah, and thank you Jamie. And I'm 699 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 1: going to just jump in for one more minute and 700 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: say that if anyone here knows someone who knows the 701 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: governor direct the outreach can be a game changer. So 702 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,800 Speaker 1: thank you very much, Jamie, and now I'm going to 703 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,879 Speaker 1: turn it over to our featured guest, Ronnie Long. 704 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 4: Well, as you know, man, I appreciate the flatform that 705 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 4: you appreciate and you let me tell my story. There's 706 00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 4: a lot of people you know, says, they're still don't 707 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 4: know who I am, and the flattered me begins. I've 708 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 4: heard of me, but they don't know the circumstances behind 709 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 4: the treatment. I appreciate what you did for me or 710 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 4: what you're doing for me, and hopefully one day in 711 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 4: your spens here for a circumit compact the season, I 712 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 4: could prove everything understands that I'm saying here. Yeah, soever 713 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 4: they had against me, but no more than the high 714 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 4: witness identif chasing. They had falls that had flaws. And 715 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 4: if they know what I'm saying, if they knew they 716 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 4: had the right man, if they knew they had the 717 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 4: right man, say, why did they pick by ourselves it's 718 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 4: a chest. If they knew they had the right man, yes, 719 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 4: and why did they would hold sixteen ynys physical evident 720 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 4: they just about the head of the guy. If any 721 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 4: of that ever just had a point towards me, and 722 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 4: they would have put off that everness to court. They 723 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 4: know they didn't have they had the wrong man. They 724 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 4: know that I wouldn't know the person being assault as 725 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 4: this moment, but yet still just still put me there. 726 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 4: Other in his life sings and I've done for it 727 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 4: four years in regardless you understands saying the whether or 728 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,359 Speaker 4: not I be use cached now whatever. 729 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 5: Supportful videos, don't forget to give us a fantastic review. 730 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 5: Wherever you get your podcasts. 731 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the 732 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: Innocence Project, and I really hope you'll join me in 733 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future 734 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org to learn how 735 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,839 Speaker 1: to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our 736 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in 737 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 738 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,720 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction 739 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 1: and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with 740 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: Jason Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts 741 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one