1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That's Podcast. 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: My guest today is legendary producer and rock and tour 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Jack Douglas. Whenever I hear that legendary, I feel like 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: Bigfoot or the lock Ness Monster. Well, the point is, 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, no one's going to be legendary anymore because 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: no one reaches as many people. I guess that's true. 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: You know, I've been in New York for a while, 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: back in New York working and and um, and we've 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: had some very interesting dinners like the dinner you attended ago. 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: You know, that mix of mafio so actors and musicians. 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: You were really missed. I was. I was tempted to 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: call you up and say, Bob, well, next time definitely 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: ring me. It sounds good. Well, you know, the last 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: time we went, Jeff Emrick was there, who's now past 15 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: and that is very sad. Yes, And of course what's 16 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: his role av on the TV show? H He told 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: me some really crazy story And of course Richard Lewis 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: the only funny thing about Richard Lewis is I always 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: thought it was an act. But that's who he really is. 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: He really is that exactly. It's perfect and you guys 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: you have had uh, you know, a kerfuffle exactly at Terry. Yeah, 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: we want Yeah, it was great and he was like, 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: so I said, I said, you know, Bob is going 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: to be there, and he got really paranoid, and you know, 25 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: he went into his complete character. I don't know. I mean, 26 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: isn't he mad at me? I What am I gonna 27 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: say to him? Me? It was great? Well at end 28 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: we that night at Ago we had a long discussion. Anyway, 29 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: you're just in from Vegas. You were involved in the 30 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: Erroo Smith residency and in addition, your son is playing 31 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: with Erro Smith. Okay, what do you tell us more 32 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: about that? Um? I mean, what's I don't know what 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: to say about. Well, this is a live show. People 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: tend to think of you as a record producers, So 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: what was your role? Don't know. All I did was 36 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: go up to Boston and do the last two days 37 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: of rehearsal with the band so and talk the m 38 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: d uh into not us right into not using click 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: tracks on the songs that there's no click that you 40 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: know can identify the groove that they sustained on some 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: of those old songs. It's like you know, same old 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: song and Dancer Mama Can or back in the Saddle 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: that they The whole idea of those songs is that 44 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: they're gonna move. They're gonna move up in the chorus 45 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: and then they're gonna go back down and sinking for 46 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: the verse. You can't put a click on them. And 47 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: when he tried to, it was very uncomfortable and the 48 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: band sounded kind of, you know, like look like they 49 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: were laboring through the songs. So I got that done. Um, 50 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: because Stephen will, I mean, he'll great people, but he 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: won't get anything done because of that. So he might 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: be attacking the empty but he won't be You want 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: to get it done. You're the negotiator. I'm a politician. Yes, 54 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: that's nature of being a record producer. So and my 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: son my son, but quite by accident, when we were 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: up at Johnny Depp studio doing Joe's solo album, my 57 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: son stopped in to see me and and Joseph, doesn't 58 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: your son play like a lot of percussion and stuff. 59 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: But he's actually he's actually a jazz drummer. He's been 60 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: nominated twice for Grammys with the Wayne Wallace Quintet Jazz 61 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: quintet and and he also is a Latin percussionist and 62 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: a world music guy. So um I said, yeah, yes, 63 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: So he played on Joe's album. And then I said 64 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: to Joe, you know he he is one of the 65 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: only young white men who actually play at Santa Ria. 66 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: Um when they when they bring someone into Santoia, they had, well, 67 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: why don't you tell my audience what that is. Santoria 68 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: is an Afro Cuban form of Catholicism with which combines 69 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: Catholicism and voodoo and um and it is in Haiti. 70 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: And so um my son studied with some of those 71 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: drummers they play. They play these amazing drums, and he 72 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: learned to play him and he got into the whole scene, 73 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: though he's not a member of Santoria, got into the 74 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: whole scene up in the Bay Area, and then he 75 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: was invited to play. And in order to do that, 76 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: you have to learn hundreds of chance, these chants that 77 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: go with so you chant as you're playing drums. And 78 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: I told Joe, I said, you know, you know, it's 79 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: all these really odd sounding chance and Joe was like, 80 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: he's got to do one on the record. And so 81 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: Joe Perry's last solo record starts with my son chanting 82 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: at the beginning of it, and then Joe called me up. 83 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: He said, listen, we want to expand the band for Vegas. 84 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: Maybe a horn, maybe some strings. Of course, we have 85 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: a keyboard player, having another background singer, and we'd like percussionist. 86 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: Do you think uh Colin would do it? And and 87 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't reach Colin. He was in Ethiopia. He was 88 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: gigging in Ethiopia. But when he got back he said, 89 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: it sounds like a good change. Okay. Traditionally the drummer 90 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: in the band is the business person. Would you put 91 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: your son in that category? Yes, he is the go 92 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: to guy. He he holds it all together in these 93 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: jazz groups and world music groups. But Um, but he 94 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: was very uncomfortable with the situation. And Arrowsmith and that 95 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: he felt guilty because all he had to do was play. 96 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: I don't have to do anything else to show up 97 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: and play, which is cool. So and the rehearsals, um 98 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: rehearsals were really good. Up and balls to and um 99 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: and now the band is They moved to Vegas and 100 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: they rehearsed in a facility outside of the theater. H 101 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: and it went pretty Actually, they rehearsed more for this 102 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: show than they ever did for any live gig they 103 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: ever did, because when they sometimes they don't even rehearse. 104 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: I mean, after almost fifty years, what do you need 105 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: to rehearse? So um, there was more rehearsal for this 106 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: than ever and um, and so the first show was 107 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: slightly fucked up because there was just I think they 108 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: were overrehearsed, and Stephen was more thinking about, you know, 109 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: what could go wrong with all this production and the 110 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: and the you should see it really definitely. I saw 111 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: some of the clips online. The clip of season of 112 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: Wither with Joe playing the guitar and the two in 113 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: the cheers definitely made my body vibrate. Yeah, I know 114 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: it's it is really good. The production is so amazing. 115 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: And there's a film in the beginning of it, which 116 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: is the history of Aerosmith, which goes on a little 117 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: bit too long, so I don't think you'll ever see 118 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: that whole film again, which runs a little over forty minutes. 119 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: I think people were complaining too much film, not enough music, 120 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: but it's very good. The productionist out of this world. 121 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 1: That's th h X sound so that's like seventeen points 122 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: of sound and things are just swirling around you and 123 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: the lights are in credits Vegas. Baby, Okay, let's go 124 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: a couple of Aerosmith questions. You know. Legendarily, uh, you know, 125 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: Mick and Keith of the Stones are the glimmer twins 126 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: and Joe and Stephen are the toxic twins. Now, it's 127 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: certainly been proven, especially in light of Keith Richard's book, 128 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: that they don't completely get along. Now since you're in 129 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: the belly of the beast, do Joe and Stephen get along? 130 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,559 Speaker 1: Not really? You know, I've often thought about what keeps 131 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: a band together? Um for fifty years, because how many 132 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: of your left that are still the actual original players. 133 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: That's the only one I can think. Okay, so you 134 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: know what keeps them together? They're all having the back 135 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: of their heads that one day they're going to get Stephen, 136 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: but they never do. They're all like, one day, I'm 137 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: just gonna get them. Well I didn't get them today, 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: I'll get them tomorrow. And this has gone. So I 139 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: mean they're a family, u uh, you know, slightly dysfunctional 140 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: family and um, and they're all still there's still some 141 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: humility and and gratefulness that you know, these are working 142 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: class class guys. Um. Not the greatest musicians, certainly, Uh, 143 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: Brad is a really good musician. The rest of them 144 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: are okay musicians. But it's that whole story where you 145 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: take okay people with a lot of character and you 146 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: put them together and they make a special noise together 147 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: that they don't make if you take one of them 148 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: out of it. It's just, um, you know, they're amateurs 149 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: and they just make a really cool noise together. Stephen 150 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: is exceptional. He's he's brilliant. Well, the funny thing about 151 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: Stephen is he can be that guy completely off Mike spontaneously. 152 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: He can like spout lyrics you know that he's making up. 153 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: You can't believe that he can continue to do it 154 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: just when you run into him. Yeah, it really is. 155 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: He's brilliant. He's one of the few rock stars who 156 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: live up to the building. I mean, I've met many 157 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: legendary people, and this always comes up because people tend 158 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: to be disappointed, said, but not Steven Tyler. Oh no, 159 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: and he's and he's uh and open and two strangers first, 160 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: I think firstly, I'm not sure which came first, whether 161 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: that somebody told them, keep your fan base. Always been 162 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: good to your fans and they will stick with you, 163 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: or whether it was just his natural thing where he 164 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: just loves people. I mean, he loves being with people. 165 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: The only people he doesn't really love being with are 166 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: the ones that, oh yeah, that's hilarious. So you know, 167 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: look at the it's it's a great thing and you 168 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: can't expect guys to be together. Okay, So the first 169 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: Aerosmith album you did was the second Get Your win Rings. Okay, 170 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: the first album, which I certainly bought after hearing dream On, 171 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: had dream On and Walking the Dog, but it was uneven. 172 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: I will say, how did you get the gig to 173 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: do Get Your Wings? Well, um, two, it came at 174 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: me two ways. The first way was through liber Crebs. 175 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: There were managers, right, because that was Aerosmith was the 176 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: baby band. The their hot band at the time was 177 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: the New York Dolls. And I had engineered that first 178 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: album really working with Todd Rundgren. Well, yeah, and Todd 179 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: really didn't care for the band very much. And so 180 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: um Todd was he didn't show up all that. That's 181 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: what the legend is. Yeah, he didn't show up all 182 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: the time, So I mean there's a you know, there 183 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: was a moment when he said something to David about, yeah, 184 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: that's gonna sound great when you put some harmony on it. 185 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: It was a live vocal. David said, harmony, you accused 186 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: of me having melody, so he wasn't. I don't know 187 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: if it was a great match, but any it worked, 188 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: but we were left alone quite often, and um, and 189 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: we got the record and Todd came in and we 190 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: mixed it in three days maybe but the faders up basically, 191 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: but um, and of course I got an engineering crowd 192 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: on it. But Crup said to me, look, we knew, 193 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: you know, you were kind of holding some of that 194 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: together because they were tended to be pretty nuts, especially 195 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders. So uh so their prize for me was Aerosmith. 196 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: At the same time, Colombia had asked Ezerin to produce 197 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: the next album, and Ezin listened to the first album 198 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: and he wasn't really interested in the band and so um, 199 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: but he and I had a partnership at the time 200 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: at Nimbus. We were doing a lot of stuff together 201 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: and he said, why don't you just ask Jack Douglas, 202 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 1: and in doing that he made the call to me, 203 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: not not Krebs. He made the call, but they were 204 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: already into it. But he made the call to me 205 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: and got himself an executive producer and a chunk of 206 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: dough out of it, which he still gets, which is 207 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: God bless him right now. That album was a quantumly 208 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: forward from the first album, and that is my favorite album. 209 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: And I still talked to Crabs, who always brings up 210 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: because he knows my favorite song off that album is 211 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: Lord of the Thighs, and he says, well, you know, 212 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: you know, you couldn't have that today in the me 213 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: Too era. It's really kind of funny. I suppose I 214 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: suppose you could. I mean, I don't hear rap records 215 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: changing their lyrics all that much. You'll hear a lot 216 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: of That's an excellent point, But to what degree were 217 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: you the shaper of the material or other things? I'll 218 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: get your wigs. You know, that's the one album where 219 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: they came in with a good amount of material and 220 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: we weren't in the pre production period for two or 221 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: three months, so they had some material for it because 222 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: they hadn't started that hardcore touring where they couldn't write 223 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: any right so um I came in with material and 224 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: with and pretty much with lyrics and UM and you 225 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: know you probably noticused that that cat. This cat has 226 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: been led out of the bag a long time ago. 227 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: That I use different guitar players for the solos. For 228 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: the big solos, it was you know, Steve Hunter and 229 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:17,119 Speaker 1: Dick Wagner, one guy who were Evan's guys when Yeah, 230 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: and and with Alice as well of course, so so I, 231 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, having engineered Alice records and UM, I had 232 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: a good relationship with both those guys. So I made 233 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: a deal with them. I said, look, these guys are 234 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: very sensitive about being players. You can't ever have your 235 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: name on the record. You can't ever Please don't talk 236 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: about it. You'll be paid well. And after you play 237 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: the solos, you have to teach them line by line 238 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: how to play them themselves, so when they go on 239 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: there old So basically the band is getting great players 240 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: for a number of songs, not all of them, and 241 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: they're also getting free guitar lessons. So, uh, to what 242 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: degree did use did those guys play on the subsequent records? 243 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: I never had to use them again. When they put 244 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: the guys on the right course, yes. And when they 245 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: came off the road touring, um that record they were 246 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: they had been playing those solos that you know, they 247 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: learned how to finger and I mean Brad was already 248 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: pretty good, but believe me, they were amateur and um 249 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: and and they wanted to make that step up. And 250 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: I know that Joe was you know, Joe was what 251 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: I'm not going to play on my own records, said 252 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: not everything, but you know, train kept a Roland was 253 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: like their thing. You know, It's like, but um, I 254 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: think the only person I let play that played poorly 255 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: on a record was Patti Smith on Radio Ethiopia. Because 256 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: I knew that it being just whatever was going to 257 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: be played was gonna work. It's like I once told Yoko, 258 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: I don't care if you get in the piano and 259 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: play it or you sit at the school, It'll all work, 260 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: will make it work. But this what Stephen had in 261 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: mind for this record was that big leap. And so 262 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: when I said to Stephen, we're going to use these 263 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: two players, he was like, absolutely, it's great. Okay, I know, 264 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: but from my audience, tell us, you know, let's go 265 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: to the back story. Where are you from? Originally from 266 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: the Bronx, New York. And your parents did Your father 267 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: did what for a living? He worked in a freight yard. 268 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: He um, he was a brakeman, and which meant that everything, 269 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: not only everything in our apartment had fallen off a 270 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: freight car, but everything in the neighborhood. Like if I 271 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: went down the street, they had the same radio as 272 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: we did, because my father would have a carton of 273 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: them somewhere. And this was, you know, the way it 274 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: worked in New York. My father once told me, excuse me, 275 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: he was reading a new Space bern. He looked up 276 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: at me and he said, he said, John, do you 277 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: know how much money passes through the city every day? 278 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: If money is important to you? And I said, I 279 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: don't know. He said, some trillion dollars in retail, in 280 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: Wall Street and everything else. He said, I want you 281 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: to imagine it as a great river running through New 282 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: York City. All you have to do is stick your 283 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: hand in it, let enough build up, pull it in, 284 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: and you're on your way. That was his philosophy. And 285 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: now were you the only child? I was the only child? Yes, 286 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: And I lived in a and I lived in a 287 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: a tenement building that was in the in the East 288 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: Bronx that was filled with nothing but family who looked 289 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: or acted or was it there were nothing like me whatsoever? 290 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: That was the odd ball. And in school and the 291 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: neighborhood did you fit in? Were you an odd ball there? 292 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: I went to Catholic school. Uh, she's strange to think that. 293 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: Even from first grade we took a subway. Yeah, I agree. 294 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: The first day of first grade, I just walked out 295 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: of the house. Yeah that's it, you know, and walked 296 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: to walk to the subway. At subway passed, it went 297 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: two stops, got off and and no one. It just 298 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: didn't matter. And then I would walk home if the 299 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: weather was nice. But no, I wasn't an odd ball 300 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: um in school until I got to high school. Then 301 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: I was really an oddball. And what caused that? I 302 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: think I was bored with school? So I was, you know, 303 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: I was. I wasn't too um. A lot of bad 304 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: things organized a a group of young men who could 305 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: who would rob pet stores. We would uh, we would 306 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: actually drop through the roofs. We and it wasn't like 307 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: we were going to steal money. We were liberty, liberty, 308 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: liberating the animals. So we would take an order for 309 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: an animal. Say, say someone wanted, uh, some rare fish, 310 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: and we would write down the name of it, be 311 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: in Latin, whatever, and then we would find a store 312 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: in New York that had an aquarium with rare fish 313 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: and we would go to the oh, is that a 314 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: laplos galypus, And then it's very interesting for you. Then 315 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: the guy I would say yeah. The next day it 316 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: was gone cats dogs, and we knew how to separate, 317 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: you know, hamsters from kitty cats, and that's what we 318 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: did that for a while. And then I got into um, 319 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: I got into heaving, into stealing cars and um, and 320 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: it got busted quite often. And then back then, when 321 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: you got busted, you took a beating because it was 322 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: too much paperwork to put you in the system. So 323 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: you would take a beating from the police who loved 324 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: to beat you with phone books because the left no 325 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: left no marks. Yeah, it was pretty brutal, but at 326 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: least they were like, I deserve it. I've been bad 327 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: and so um. And so finally I stole a school 328 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: bus and uh, and this time I was really in trouble, 329 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: and um, the judge said, you know, listen, this we 330 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 1: see way too often and you're always in the lock up. 331 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: My grades were still good. UM, and my parents got 332 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: a lawyer, and the lawyer said that you've got to 333 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: plead insanity that you can't help you Steve. If it 334 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: has wheels, you have to take it. I mean, who 335 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: would take up school bus? And so I did, and 336 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: I did UM, and I got ninety days in a 337 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: state and nuthouse and UM and that changed my life 338 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: because people I met in there that were very When 339 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: I finally worked my way up to other people who 340 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: were avoiding raps, I met a guy who was UM, 341 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: who was in was avoiding a attempted murder rap and 342 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: he was very interesting. He was in the theater, he 343 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: was in the film business, and he had some friends 344 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: that were that were amazing at Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton, 345 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: and I started hanging out with those people and they 346 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: changed my life. And in New York at the Beresford 347 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: where they were, and and not only did that nuthhouse 348 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: change my life, but when I got drafted and I 349 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: finally got to the shrink, which is at the end 350 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: of when you're doing your thing at Center Street there 351 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: and the last person you see is the shrink. The 352 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: shrink said to me, so, John, um, could you kill? 353 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: And I said, well, I think I could. I could kill. 354 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: I could kill in self defense. And he kind of 355 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: smiled and he wrote something in his book and then 356 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: I said, and that's why I would kill my commanding officer. 357 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: And he said to me, have you to have any 358 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: mental problems? And I said, I'm sir fied. And so 359 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: having done that ninety days in a nuthhouse, in a 360 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: state nunhouse, which was not nice for a good bit 361 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: of time. It was violent and terrible, it saved It 362 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: saved my career and which you know had been criminal, 363 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: and it saved my life because I would have gone 364 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: to Vietnam and probably been blown up or shot. Okay, 365 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: now we've talked that's my back story. We've talked before 366 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: about this legendary trip to England. Why don't you tell 367 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: my audience. So at some point, Um, I was doing 368 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: theater and and because of my friends, and I was 369 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: playing guitar but folk guitar, and I was playing in 370 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: the village and I'm doing the whole coffee thing. But anyway, 371 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: the Beatles sixty three I heard it and it just 372 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: changed everything I was like because music and rock music 373 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: in sixty three was awful. You had Fabian and Frankie 374 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: Avalon and what happened to where Chuck Berry go? Where 375 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: did all these good people going? It's like the fifties 376 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: were cool, then suddenly it was awful. So I talked, 377 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: I've started a rock band, and with my friend Eddie Lionetti, 378 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: and we played around and finally by at night and 379 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: we were emulating all English rock bands and and I 380 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: said to him, why don't we go to Liverpool because 381 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: that's where it's happening. This is summer of so um 382 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: we got we got jobs in this uh factory that 383 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: sand blasted used airplane parts. I was always like eight sandpaper. 384 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: It was terrible, but it was cool when we made 385 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: enough money. Hardly anything but the trip I had planned 386 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: for us was a tramp steamer and it was a 387 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: hundred and twelve dollars to Liverpool. You didn't know what 388 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: stops you were going to make on the way because 389 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: the tramp scheme, wherever they can get pulled in anyway, 390 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: they we get on this ship in late November. Um, 391 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: we crossed the North Atlantic. That the worst I mean, 392 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: people told me, are you out of your mind? What 393 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: did I know, across the North Atlantic, so what fort 394 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: your foot seas? You know you're covered in ice if 395 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: you walk outside. It's just it's terribly We went to 396 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: all these different countries. It took forever to get to Liverpool. 397 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: We finally uh after I think we docked in Aberdeen 398 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: and then we went down the Irish Sea and I 399 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: heard Pirate radio for the first time Radio Caroline, and 400 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: there was one other one Luxembourg. Now that was in Luxembourg, 401 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: but there were two Pirate chips. Anyway, it was fantastic 402 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: to hear this at a little transistor radio. We had 403 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: her guitars. I had a nineteen fift less Paul Black 404 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: Custom with a stock Bigsby. Fantastic thing. My friend had 405 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: a mos right, we had little champions. I was just 406 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: yeah and so um. We frequently had to play for 407 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: a very drunken crew that because we're the only passengers 408 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: and it seemed like if we didn't play, we would 409 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: be walking the plank or something really bad. So anyway, 410 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: we get there and immigration comes on board and we're 411 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,479 Speaker 1: young and we're very naive. So what are you two 412 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: doing here because we're the only pastors. Uh, well, we've 413 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: come here to play. Uh huh, okay play? So you 414 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: have worked per maths? No, no we don't. Do you 415 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: have a visa? No you have a return trip ticket? No, no, 416 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: none of that. So they said, well you cannot land 417 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: you or now when this ship leaves, see you're on it. 418 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: Which point my friend Eddie said, did you realize that 419 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: the rest of our lives we're just gonna go? And 420 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: so um so I um, I said, don't worry about it. 421 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: I got us into this mess and I'll get us 422 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: out of it somehow. So that night I escaped from 423 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: the ship, which was I actually put on the disguise. 424 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: I got a semen's big coat and a cat and 425 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: I put some black from a pencil over like I 426 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: had a beard, like I needed to shave. I didn't 427 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: need any of that because as I walked down, I'm 428 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: looking to the left and right, looking for the police 429 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: or somebody to be guarding me. And I saw from 430 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: another ship these two semen walking down the dock and 431 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: they just walked out of gate. Obviously they're going to 432 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: go get drunk snow terrors. There's no you didn't have 433 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: to worry. There was a science admigration that was a 434 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: shack way far away. So I just walked out and 435 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: got on a bus the central Liverpool had a few 436 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: pounds sterling and got off in the middle of the 437 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: city and there was a record store for place I went, 438 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: and that week they released Rubber Soul, and I went 439 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: right into a listening booth to listen to the record, 440 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: and I was just astonished. It's of course, it's an 441 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: amazing revolutionary record. Yeah, and so at this point I'm like, 442 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: I have to stay here. This is like, you know, 443 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: this is where it is happening. Look what this would 444 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: never happen in America, that this kind of music would 445 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: be made, and so um. I walked out of the 446 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: record store and across the street was a newspaper office, 447 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: a big one, the Liverpool Echo, which is the biggest 448 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: newspaper in Liverpool. And I went in there and I 449 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: told the receptionist I thought these almis like sensational stuff. 450 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to try this. I said, I'm an American musician. 451 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm being held captive on a ship in the port, 452 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: which she looked at me like really, what you're standing 453 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: in front of me, And I said, why I escaped 454 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: from the ship. So she said wait here, and she 455 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: went and got an editor and I told the whole 456 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: story to the editor. He said, I liked this, he said, 457 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna drive you back to the ship to 458 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: make sure you get on it. If you get on 459 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: that ship, we'll have all the newspapers in England. And 460 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: there's a good story. American musicians come on. So I 461 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: went back with my Rubber Soul album and walked back 462 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: onto the ship. My friend Eddie was pretty surprised to 463 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: surprised to see me with this album, and we listened 464 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: to it all night and I told him it was 465 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: going to be okay. And the next day they were. 466 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: They woke us up in the morning and then the 467 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: ship was full of newspapers and we were on the 468 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: front page uh later that day in the in the 469 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: afternoon or evening edition, we were on the front page 470 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: of the Liverpool EC. On the next day we were 471 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: all over even the mirror in England, big pictures of 472 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: us on the front page of the Liverpool papers and 473 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: the the radio. The a newspaper had some kind of 474 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: affiliation with the television station. And what they did was 475 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: they hired these girls. These girls marched up and down 476 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: in front of the ship with placards that said free 477 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: the Yanks, and we go to the front of the 478 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: ship and wave to them. We have our guitars on. 479 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: We had long hair and they'd scream was of a setup. 480 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: But and then that was televised, and then Immigration came 481 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: on board the day before the ship was supposed to leave, 482 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: when they said, how we can't figure out how you 483 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: did this, but you like our phones are ringing off 484 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: the hook, these poor two Americans. We have to let 485 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: you go. We're giving you a sixty day student visa. 486 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: Have fun, stay out of trouble. Send the guitars back, 487 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: you can't bring them in, which we did. We sent 488 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: the guitarist back, but the newspaper had it they had 489 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: a better idea. Follow the adventures of the Yanks as 490 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: they get into another band, and so we did. And 491 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: about three weeks later, uh, we're after a gig. We 492 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: were sitting at a little cafe and this guy came 493 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: up and said, aren't you the two Yanks? And we 494 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: said yea. He said, my friends parked around the corner. 495 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: You want to say, what's an autograph? No problem. We 496 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: walked around the corner with Immigration. They said, you motherfucker's 497 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: you're not kidding, you're making fools of us. You know 498 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: in the papers say handcuffed us, put us in the car, 499 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: took us to a train right away, chained us to 500 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: the seats. Train went from There was no hearing, there 501 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: was nothing. We were out, We were trouble. Train went 502 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: from Liverpool to London. In London, they changed trains, shackled again. 503 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: That train went to Southampton and they threw us on 504 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: the first ship back to New York that day, which 505 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: was the s S United States largest ship and fastest 506 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: and fastest. So three days we're back in New York. 507 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: Probably been sending back clippings of like, you know, we 508 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: were a big deal. We were the only American musicians 509 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: from locally New York guys that had been to Liverpool 510 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: had actually hung out in the Cavern Club and made 511 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: the scene. So when we got back we were able 512 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: to get in pretty much any band we wanted to. 513 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: So first band I joined was the Angels, my boyfriend 514 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: and and and then I just played in a series 515 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: of bands that I ended up on the road, which 516 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: Barry being his bass player, just a series of bands 517 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: always had labels, were always signed to labels. At one 518 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: point I was signed to two labels under two different names. 519 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: Was signed to Bell Records and to Columbia and um, 520 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: we're signed. We did a deal with Epic Swamp Seeds, 521 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: on and on and on, UM and um. By the 522 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: time I know, this is a long story, Okay. So 523 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: my friend was in a band called the Soul Survivors 524 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: that sprush act. Yeah, so he was in at a 525 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: Philly and so we both came back to New York 526 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: and he was finished with the Soulservirus and I was 527 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: pretty much finished with wherever I was working with. And 528 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: he said, this is ninete. He said, have you heard 529 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: this band led Zeppelin? I said, yeah, I love them. 530 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: They weren't big yet. The record had just come out 531 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: until led Zeppelin too. Yeah. It was a little bit 532 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: of an underground so we were very aware of them. 533 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: They and we said, basically, they're just doing blues, but 534 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: like you know, like really heavy blues. So why don't 535 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: we do that, but we'll do it in New York style. 536 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: We'll put a Hammond organ in a band. So we did. 537 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: We added a Hammond organ and we were doing kind 538 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: of blues based, very heavy. I had two sons two 539 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: thousand amps. Shes like four fifteen and like four. You know, 540 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: it's just and he had a capital, a couple of 541 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: Marshall stacks that he'd used while he was in the Soulservirs. 542 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: So and we we we set up shop at set 543 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: up shop at a club that was across the street 544 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: from Palace Staates Amusement Park. And the deal was they 545 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 1: let us rehearse there anytime we wanted, and but at 546 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: night we had to give them Wednesday Thursday Friday or Wednesday, Thursday, 547 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: Friday and Saturday nights for free. Otherwise the place was ours. 548 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: So we rehearsed there and we worked up an act. 549 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: And and about two weeks into this thing, the Isay brothers, 550 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: who lived in Tea Neck not very far away, they 551 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: rolled into this club and they saw us after the 552 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: gig and they said, listen, we just started a labeled 553 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: te Neck Records. We're just coming off this huge success. 554 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: Was it not for the love of money? No? No, 555 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: the big one anyway, that was on buddha Um. So 556 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: they were coming off a giant success and they had 557 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: now had their own label and wanted to fill the 558 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: label with more than just R and B. They wanted 559 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: to have a rock act and would we be the 560 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: rock act, and um, we said yes, and they signed 561 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: us and they put us in A and R Studios, 562 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: Phil Ramon, beautiful incredible studio with an engineer, a black engineer, 563 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: their engineer, Tony May, who was incredibly talented. Um, and 564 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: in in like a week we cut ten tracks because 565 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: it was very basic and it was very ambient. The 566 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: room was big and so if you it just rang, 567 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: the rooms was singing and and so you know, after 568 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: two weeks we were done. Very basic. Eddie sang lead, 569 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 1: I sang harmony. The name of the album was Privileged 570 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: still available by the way. Then the name of the 571 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: band was your Privilege and oh it's your thing, that's 572 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: to what's want to do? Yeah, that was their huge, 573 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: huge so um so now the Ice brothers are in 574 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: there and they're listening to this very basic, empty sounding 575 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 1: record in there, like you know, maybe if they told 576 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: us come back in ten days after the mix, and 577 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: they said, maybe if we put some congas on it, 578 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, why don't we put our girls singers on. 579 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: There's only two guys girls singers. How about if horns on? 580 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: This could be a single, fat horns. Yeah, and while 581 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: we're at it, the ballad needs strings. And so they 582 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: loaded the thing up and when we you know time, 583 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: it was passing. We were wondering what the hell is 584 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: going on? So we finally went in and um and 585 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: we sat down for a playback, and we thought they 586 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: put up the wrong record and so um, the big 587 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: ambient sound was gone and was filled with its kind 588 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: of an R and B rock. Then maybe be cool 589 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: now I don't know, I don't know, uh, but anyway, Um, 590 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: being the politician said the eddie said to me, you 591 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: have to say something. This isn't good, like all wrong, 592 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: and so um, I said, I started identifying the players 593 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: that because I could tell that Jimmy Maillen on congo 594 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: And finally, uh, um, Kelly Easley said, there do we 595 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: have a problem And I said, well, remember when you 596 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: signed us? He said, you wanted that rock, big rock band, 597 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: you know that for your label. Well that's not it. 598 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: You know you had it and he said, yea, how 599 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: much all that cost? But we didn't ask for that, 600 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: and uh and he stood up and he said and 601 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: he said, well fuck you, and he got up in 602 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: the Kelly and Rudolph and I can't remember the other 603 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: guys that they got up and they started to walk out. 604 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: Rudolph was the oldest guy, and he was also the 605 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: more serious and he ran the business of icy pros. 606 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: And he came back in the room and he looked 607 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: at me and he said, you know like it, you 608 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: mix it? And I knew nothing whatsoever about being on 609 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: that side of the I played plenty of sessions, but 610 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: I know much about it. So with the engineers, I 611 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: told the engineer, I said, the rough mixes that you 612 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: made were perfect. Whyn't we put those out? He said 613 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: there were seven and a half we gotta go. So 614 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: two days I had to mix it with him, and basically, um, 615 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: I would just be a terror if I did anything 616 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: on the board. So I just kind of cheered him 617 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: on and it was done, and the group came in 618 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: and congratulated me. But the experience of doing that was 619 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: so amazing that I quit the band and I said, really, 620 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, this is the first time I've had control 621 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 1: over anything, and and uh, it feels good, and so 622 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: I'll do whatever promotional tour you want to do, but 623 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: after that, I'm going into the studios. And so I 624 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: went to record Plant that Tony told me. He said, 625 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: down the street they're building a rebuilding and building new 626 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: rooms to this record plant. You might go down there, 627 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: and he said a lot of guys have left A 628 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: and R to go down there. Of course, Race Ofcale 629 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: and Shelley As had already left. So I went down 630 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 1: there and I got it. I walked in and this guy, 631 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: Paul Prestopino, it was kind of famous maintenance man and musician, 632 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: was sitting at the receptionist desk and I walked in 633 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,919 Speaker 1: and I said, I'm looking for a job. He's sitting 634 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: there in cover rolls and he said, uh, we need 635 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: a janitor and I said, I'm your man. And I 636 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: was in Now. Um, that was in sixty nine and 637 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: the first gigs that I was kind of working on 638 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: where they were recording woodstock and mixing it. So I 639 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: got to bring the tapes into the rooms where the 640 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: guys were fixing up there individual tracks from and I 641 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is this is amazing. These vocalis 642 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: people are here, Jimmy Andndricks is here for good. He's incredible. 643 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: So I, you know, I I was very aggressive and 644 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: working my way up and got to cut cutting people's demos. 645 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: I cut the Billie Joel's demos when Alreadie RiPP was 646 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: paying for the you probably know, so I was the 647 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: guy cutting his demos. You know, I always thought this 648 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: guy is kind of cool. It's kind of kind of 649 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: but it already would be like, yeah, let's get it 650 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,280 Speaker 1: all the way in there. You know, already was amazing. 651 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: He's still year ago. Yeah, yeah, he's great. That's old 652 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: school man. So I would cut those demos. I cut 653 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: Patty of the Bells demos and U and I actually 654 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: had a chance to work with the who on Who's Next, 655 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 1: which was amazing. Uh. But one of the things that 656 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: I could really do well was hit it. I mean 657 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: I would get calls to go on these big Ford 658 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: commercial roles and airline commercials and and when you know 659 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: they needed to do splices and edits for TV or 660 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: this and that, I would get the gig and I 661 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: would go in this editing room and do all their editing. 662 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: Of course, this is when you're using razor blades. Yeah. 663 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,439 Speaker 1: I had a good, really good ear for editing, and 664 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: I knew a few tricks that Jamisina had taught me. 665 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: And so um next thing, I know, I look on 666 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: this schedule board, and um, John Lennon is coming into 667 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: the studio. I nearly pated my pants just looking at 668 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: the schedule, like, oh my god, I can't believe this 669 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: because he was coming into to imagine and continue imagine. Actually, um, 670 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: and so I got this gig my part. I'm now 671 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm on it. I see my name on there. Well, 672 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 1: you're like the second engineer. I'm the editor, and I'm 673 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 1: doing editing and trans and transferring so that they can 674 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: so that they can do overdubs on uff that they 675 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: already have but needs some of it needs to be edited. 676 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: There's all these handwritten notes, there's mostly by John. And 677 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm in a room doing transferring and editing, and about 678 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: a week into the end, they're often another whole place, 679 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, overdubbing, retracking everything. And one day John walked 680 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: into the room that I was in and um, he said, 681 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: he said, okay, if I sit in here. It's looking 682 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: for a place to escape phil and so I said sure, Sure, 683 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: I said, I'm the guy. Yeah, I said, I'm the 684 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: guy that's editing your transferring. And he said, oh it's 685 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: very good, thank you. Thinking he sat down. I can 686 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: only see his feet because he was on a couch 687 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: below the console, at his feet up on the window, 688 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: and obviously with a cigarette smoke. And finally, after for 689 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 1: just a few minutes, I got the nerves to speak 690 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: up and I said, I've been to Liverpool. And he 691 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: looked at me and he said he got up. It 692 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,720 Speaker 1: caught his attention. He looked at me. He said really, 693 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: he said, it's a dirty, terrible place. Everyone there wants 694 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: to be here. Um. In fact, he said, we just 695 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: moved here. Why on and why would you want to 696 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: go to Liverpool? And where are you from? I said, 697 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: I'm born and raised here in New York City. I 698 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: don't get that. I said, well, I was a musician 699 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: and I wanted to go and just you know, immerse 700 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: myself in the mersey and just you know, understand how 701 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 1: you guys were doing. But it was basically American music, 702 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: everyone there but doing something special to it, and I 703 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,879 Speaker 1: really wanted to know what it was, and I wanted 704 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: to learn to do it. Oh. I said, okay, So 705 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:48,919 Speaker 1: how did that work out for you? I said, good? 706 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: In bad, bad, I get supported, but good. I made 707 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: a lot of noise before I did, And he looked 708 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: at me and he said, are you one of those 709 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: crazy Yanks We're all over the newspaper. Is that you? 710 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, that's me. He said, there we re 711 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: release an album. Should be just us on the front 712 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: page of the fucking home newspaper. But no, there's these 713 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: too crazy yanks on the front page. Young Americans band, 714 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he said, I can't. But then he was 715 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 1: like excited, So I can't believe of all the places 716 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: I come in, I run into you. We were laughing 717 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: about you so much. And by the way, you still 718 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,280 Speaker 1: have that less Paul which he was in the picture 719 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: of course. Yeah. And I said no, no, so long gone. 720 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: And he said, this is just amazing. He said, Yoko 721 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: is not gonna believe. This is so cool. So he 722 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: was excited about meeting me, and he said what are 723 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:44,839 Speaker 1: you you know, what are you doing? I said, well, 724 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: like I said, I'm editing and transferring. He said, come down. 725 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: You should be working with us on the on the album. 726 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: So I said okay, So he said, come on down. 727 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 1: We went down to the studio and I walked in 728 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: the room with the nemrois. Kelly gave me a look 729 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: that you normally I would never want to get that 730 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: look like, what the funk are you doing in this room? 731 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,720 Speaker 1: And and I said, I'm with him, you know, I 732 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: I don't know, and so um he said, I have 733 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: a seat. He said, uh, he said, broy, can we 734 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: get Jack working on this record? And this was early, 735 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: this a weekend and I worked on the rest of 736 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: the record and you know my pictures on that inner sleeve, 737 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: and um, and it started a relationship him. I mean. 738 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: One of the things was I lived in the village. 739 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: He did too, and he asked me if if I 740 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: knew any restaurants that they could go to on their 741 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: way back to Bank Street, and I did. I knew 742 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: people along places you get them in a back door. 743 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: So I would leave and jump in the limit with 744 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: and then and and take them into a restaurant in 745 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: the back. And then I became a regular thing. And 746 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 1: then he asked me from my phone number, which I 747 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: gave him any called me up and he said, you 748 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: want to go to a party? Said listen, So I 749 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 1: have to go to this party. It was the usual 750 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,479 Speaker 1: radicals down there, you know, And he said, just watch 751 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: my back. I don't know these people. And I said, sure, 752 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: I'll be happy to go to him. I went on 753 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: to the party with him, UM, which turned into quite 754 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 1: a scene. They were all screaming off the peg and 755 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: he was very anti violence and so UM it turned 756 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 1: into quite a scene there and we got out. UM. 757 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: But it became we became friends and UM. And then 758 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: he said, listen, we want to work with Yoko on 759 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: her stuff. And I just did that series of Yoko records, 760 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 1: some of which he would kind of produce hang out 761 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: with me, and some you would just stop by. But 762 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,800 Speaker 1: and then we just became a very good friends Yoko. 763 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: And so when he um, I mean when he went 764 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,920 Speaker 1: to Kellifornia. Um, by this time I was producing and 765 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 1: I was producing Alice Cooper Muscle of Love. And I 766 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: told him myself, I'm going I'm gonna be producing Muscle Love. 767 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,160 Speaker 1: He said to me, what are you doing it? I said, 768 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: wherever Warner Brothers tells me. Because no, no, no no, he says, 769 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: the other producer. You tell them where you want to produce. 770 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: That that's how it works, he said, produce it in California. 771 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: He said, firstly, you'll be close to Warners, and I'm 772 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: going to be there and you can come hang out 773 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,319 Speaker 1: and have a place in belly Air. So I so 774 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: I did. I booked Sunset Sound and uh, and we 775 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: went out there and every night was I drove the 776 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: getaway car. Late after the sessions. I would look up 777 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: with them the original Hollywood Vampires. Alice was part of 778 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: it too, and um, then he disappeared. He was finished, 779 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: and he came back. He you know, they had a 780 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 1: bad shawn h I ran into him once at a 781 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,719 Speaker 1: across the street from the nine Street. Why there was 782 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: a health food store and my wife and I were 783 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,279 Speaker 1: having luncheon there and he walked in with John. He 784 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: had been giving him swimming lessons and he was so 785 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 1: surprised to see me and he and he sat down 786 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,280 Speaker 1: with us. Um, you can imagine my wife John Lynton 787 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: suddenly sits down with you and and and he said, 788 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,279 Speaker 1: look at here's my he I said to He asked 789 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 1: me where I was living, and I was living four 790 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: blocks from him, and he said, well, here's my phone number. 791 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: This is a personal private number. He said, call me 792 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: and just come down. Well, come down to the Dakota 793 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: and just hang out. And I didn't for a year. 794 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: I didn't because in my head I was like his 795 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,280 Speaker 1: house husband and that you know, he he's not interested 796 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: in this bullshit anymore that I do. And so um 797 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 1: A year later, I got that phone call and uh, 798 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: which was very funny because it was it was it 799 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,080 Speaker 1: was the phone. It was the most mysterious phone call 800 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: you could ever get. It was I don't even know 801 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 1: who may have been Fred Seaman, I always asked. I 802 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 1: never found out exactly who made that phone call, but 803 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 1: it was if you want to do something really cool. 804 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,160 Speaker 1: And that phone rang forever and I was on the 805 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 1: street listening to it ring, and it didn't stop, and I, 806 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, slowly made my way into the brown stone 807 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: we had and picked up the phone and it was, 808 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: if you want to do something that's very exciting, and 809 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: I did want to do something exciting at that time. 810 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: They said, you will go to them to thirty thirty 811 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: fourth Street Pier where the seaplanes land, and at noon 812 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: a seaplane will land and you'll get in it. Could 813 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: you resist that? I know, not at all? So I did. 814 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't yeah, well I didn't know who it was. 815 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: Really no, I didn't know what it was. I had 816 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: no idea what it was. Not not the slightest so 817 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,359 Speaker 1: I went to It was just that, you know, And 818 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 1: so I went to the pier, and sure enough a 819 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,439 Speaker 1: seaplane landed and I got in it and it took 820 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: off and it went over to the glen cove over 821 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: there where the mansion was pulled up right onto the beach, 822 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,360 Speaker 1: and Uh and Toshi, well I know his name was 823 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: Toshi then, but Toshi was Uh. Yoko's house servant came 824 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 1: in and greeted me and said, come, come, come and 825 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,840 Speaker 1: into the house. And Yoko was there, would open arms, 826 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: come in, she said. And I was then, you know, 827 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 1: quite surprised. And she said, John wants to do a record, 828 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: to come back record. He wants to go back into 829 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: the studio make a record, but no one can know 830 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: about it, not a soul, no one, not your wife. 831 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: By the way, I did tell her, and she swore 832 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,440 Speaker 1: that she would never but she that if anyone finds 833 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,360 Speaker 1: out that we're going to make this record, we stopped 834 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 1: making the record, simple as that. So she said, Johnson Bermuda, 835 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: he's going to call you, um and he wants to 836 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: talk to you about it. And so the phone rang 837 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 1: shortly afterwards, and she said, yes, he's here and I 838 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: and he said it's Hi John, I mean hi Jackets John. 839 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 1: You know I want to do something. I want to 840 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 1: make a record. Yoko has an envelope. She's going to 841 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: give it to you now. I want you to listen. 842 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 1: There's two toissettes in there with potential material. I'm not 843 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,799 Speaker 1: sure if it's any good at all. I don't think 844 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,319 Speaker 1: it's that good to tell you the truth, um, but 845 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,600 Speaker 1: you listen to it. If you think there's anything that 846 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,439 Speaker 1: we can do with this material, Um, then I'll call 847 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,800 Speaker 1: you tomorrow. Make sure Yoko has my phone number and 848 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 1: give her a time. Okay. So I get the envelope 849 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,600 Speaker 1: and I'm ready to leave in Yokos is weight right? 850 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: She said, I'm so on this record. Okay, So I 851 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,839 Speaker 1: have to. Now I've got a start a stack of 852 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 1: tapes from Yoko like this this high. You know, all 853 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,920 Speaker 1: these tapes that she made demos, and a little envelope 854 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:21,239 Speaker 1: from back on the seaplane. Get off and take a 855 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,040 Speaker 1: cab back to my house. I listened to John Stuff 856 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,719 Speaker 1: right away, and um and Yoko's later in the day. 857 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,080 Speaker 1: But John Stuff two cassettes. They were wonderful, they were narrated, 858 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,919 Speaker 1: they were um. Most of the most of it it was, oh, 859 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,680 Speaker 1: this one's not for me, this one's for ringo and 860 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,880 Speaker 1: at the end of it, he'd say, that was definitely 861 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: for Richard Starkey, and it was like, here's the same 862 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,440 Speaker 1: old piece of ship. He was just every song was narrated, 863 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,759 Speaker 1: which was wonderful and fun. And when he called me 864 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,799 Speaker 1: up the next day, I said to him, I don't 865 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 1: think I can beat it. So what do you mean? 866 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 1: I said, you should just put it out, you should 867 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,000 Speaker 1: just master these cassettes, because there's something you know. They 868 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,480 Speaker 1: were made on a boombox. He sang into a boom 869 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,640 Speaker 1: box and played guitar, and then he took another boom box, 870 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,680 Speaker 1: played it off of that boom box and doubled the vocal. 871 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,080 Speaker 1: And that's how primitive it was. And somebody I think 872 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,280 Speaker 1: was banging pants and pick pots and pants for drums 873 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: and that was it. And it was wonderful, and so 874 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,120 Speaker 1: he took He said, so you like it? I said, 875 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:39,160 Speaker 1: I love it. I mean it's beautiful. He said, okay, 876 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: then we'll make the record, and and then I went 877 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,840 Speaker 1: through and of course we made two records. It was 878 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: like making four records, two artists and two two albums 879 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:56,080 Speaker 1: really because Milk and Honey. But I rehearsed the band 880 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: the first thing I did was I charted the songs, 881 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 1: did actual art arts for them. So you know how 882 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,520 Speaker 1: to read music, yes, and you learn that where my 883 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: theory classes in high school. High school. Yeah, and so 884 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,879 Speaker 1: um and I played, you know, of course, So I 885 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: charted the music and I brought the charts to First 886 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,040 Speaker 1: of all, John said to me, I want a band 887 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:25,760 Speaker 1: that is my contemporaries. So if I say to them, 888 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,440 Speaker 1: let's you know, let's do some some Buddy Holly or 889 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 1: Everly Brothers, they'll join right in. There will be no 890 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,239 Speaker 1: yeah that. So I put together. He didn't tell me 891 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: who to get. I put together a band of contemporaries, 892 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:46,120 Speaker 1: which was Andy Newmark, you, McCracken, Tony Levin. Uh that 893 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,440 Speaker 1: that ilk of New York Player, which is also what 894 00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,759 Speaker 1: he wanted in New York sounding. And he didn't want 895 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,319 Speaker 1: it to be a hard rock album. And he told 896 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,840 Speaker 1: me that. He said, Look, I know I listened to 897 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,680 Speaker 1: what he produced. That's not what we're doing. And you know, 898 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: and and I got and I got slammed by the 899 00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,799 Speaker 1: critics for making him soft. Um, but that's what he wanted. 900 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:11,560 Speaker 1: He said, I'm forty years old. Well, he was going 901 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,520 Speaker 1: to be forty years old. Least, I'm not doing it. 902 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,880 Speaker 1: I'm not a beatle anymore, and I'm not doing that. 903 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,640 Speaker 1: I'm doing a record that is a guy that lived 904 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,080 Speaker 1: through the sixties, has made it into the forties and 905 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 1: has a family, and hello, I'm I made it? How 906 00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,800 Speaker 1: are you? Did you make it? That was his whole thing. Um. 907 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: So I would rehearse the band, but they didn't know 908 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,840 Speaker 1: whose record was. They would just read the music and 909 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,759 Speaker 1: I'd sing the songs just to be clear. Did you 910 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,839 Speaker 1: have Beautiful Boy? And watching didn't have? Starting Over? Had 911 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: all the other songs I rehearsed, and all of Yoko songs. 912 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,920 Speaker 1: This is intense rehearsals for weeks. I'd record the rehearsals. 913 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,760 Speaker 1: They didn't know who, had no idea who who they were, 914 00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 1: whose record they're making, And then I'd run back to 915 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:03,759 Speaker 1: the Dakota and uh play the tape for him and 916 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,239 Speaker 1: work with him on the arrangements. Now, to work with 917 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,400 Speaker 1: John on the arrangements was very interesting because she went 918 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,719 Speaker 1: to the Dakota. You went upstairs to the to his 919 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,120 Speaker 1: apartment on the seventh floor, their apartment, she had another 920 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:20,440 Speaker 1: place down on the first floor, and you jump in 921 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: bed with him and that's where he worked, sat cross 922 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,719 Speaker 1: legged in in this big bedroom, in a giant bed. 923 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: The bed was surrounded by various instruments, tape machines, TV monitors. 924 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,800 Speaker 1: The wall behind him was guitars and other instruments that 925 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,080 Speaker 1: were hand drums. The bed was was a virtual studio, 926 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,920 Speaker 1: and so you jumped in bed with him, and he 927 00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,640 Speaker 1: put the cassette in and he'd listened to a particular 928 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,760 Speaker 1: song and then he would make comments to me about 929 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: what I'd want to you'd want to change on it, 930 00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,000 Speaker 1: and then i'd make notes. The next day I'd go 931 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:03,760 Speaker 1: back And that's the pros every day. UM and then UM. 932 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: The last day of rehearsal, the day before going into 933 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,239 Speaker 1: the studio, I said, John said, let's do a dry 934 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,719 Speaker 1: rehearsal at the Dakota in the apartment so they don't 935 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 1: walk into the studio and shipped themselves and they see 936 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,560 Speaker 1: who it is. So I said, okay, So I told 937 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:24,680 Speaker 1: the band dry rehearsal today. UM, We're gonna meet on 938 00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,760 Speaker 1: the corner of seventy in Central Park West. Suspicions confirmed 939 00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,680 Speaker 1: for a few of them, and particularly you mccracking and 940 00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,160 Speaker 1: Tony Leven. They said this material is too good to 941 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,600 Speaker 1: be anything but here, and you know, being across the 942 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,600 Speaker 1: street from the Dakota, it was then obvious. So we 943 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,800 Speaker 1: went up and we rehearsed, and um, everybody got along. 944 00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,719 Speaker 1: It was great. We had a great time rehearsing all 945 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,319 Speaker 1: the songs dry, just going through the arrangements kind of 946 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 1: and knowing that the next day we're going into the studio. 947 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,840 Speaker 1: Now at the at the door of his apartment, he 948 00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:06,360 Speaker 1: had a Fender Rhodes piano and a cassette recorder sitting 949 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,480 Speaker 1: on top of it, so that when he came into 950 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,640 Speaker 1: the apartment if he had had something in his head, 951 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,480 Speaker 1: he could sit down right away and get it recorded. 952 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,840 Speaker 1: Or if he was leaving, before he left, if he 953 00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,240 Speaker 1: had something, he would sit down do it. And so 954 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,880 Speaker 1: we were leaving, almost everyone had left. It was Tony 955 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,080 Speaker 1: Levin was going out the door, you mccrack and followed 956 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,400 Speaker 1: by me John wishing us a good night, see us 957 00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,600 Speaker 1: in the morning, and he goes, wait, wait, he said, um, 958 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,200 Speaker 1: I have this one more song. You don't have it. 959 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of a Roy Orbison feeling thing. And he 960 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,520 Speaker 1: sat down and he played starting over at the piano, 961 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:47,200 Speaker 1: and I said, why don't we just it's I had 962 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,440 Speaker 1: heard single in my head immediately, and I said, why 963 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,840 Speaker 1: don't we just, you know, rehearse that in the studio 964 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,000 Speaker 1: and record it, make it the first song we do 965 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: this way, everybody gets into the field and and that's 966 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,320 Speaker 1: what we did. And the studio didn't know. Eddie Germano 967 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 1: at Hit Factory didn't know whose record we were making 968 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,480 Speaker 1: either until we got there. And then you know, when 969 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: you when you tell people that, if you tell anyone 970 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,920 Speaker 1: and the word gets out that we're making this record, 971 00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:24,520 Speaker 1: the record stops. Then they don't tell because they were 972 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,800 Speaker 1: serious the record. The record would have stopped, and no 973 00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,680 Speaker 1: one wanted it to stop. And it went on that. 974 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:34,400 Speaker 1: It was secret for a long time until until the 975 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,760 Speaker 1: vocals on watching the wheels and he listened back to 976 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, after I comped a vocal. Uh, he listened 977 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,520 Speaker 1: back to the vocal and he just shouted out, mother, 978 00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:53,280 Speaker 1: tell them we have a record, And that was what's 979 00:58:53,280 --> 00:59:06,440 Speaker 1: that kind of stretched a long story out. No, No, 980 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,919 Speaker 1: those are things people are dying to hear. I didn't 981 00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,280 Speaker 1: want to interrupt you. Uh, we'll leave out the faithful 982 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,960 Speaker 1: event and go back to the beginning. So you're working 983 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:22,520 Speaker 1: at A and our studios and how do you end 984 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,680 Speaker 1: up being? You know? Was the next step hooking up 985 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:29,320 Speaker 1: with Ezra uh No. I started working. I was parting 986 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,400 Speaker 1: our record plan studios, and he brought in uh schools 987 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:39,560 Speaker 1: out and on schools out. I assisted, And during that 988 00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,720 Speaker 1: whole period I was working my way up. So by 989 00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,880 Speaker 1: the time I got to um billion Dollar Babies, he 990 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,960 Speaker 1: I was engineering and and he and I just hit 991 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,600 Speaker 1: it off. First of all, I had First of all, 992 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,080 Speaker 1: he thought I was a producer. You know, he's he's 993 00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,600 Speaker 1: uh he's one of the prime Mary people who made 994 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,080 Speaker 1: me make that change. I was very comfortable. I was. 995 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,520 Speaker 1: I was successfully engineering out and I was young, and 996 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,080 Speaker 1: I was making you make fiftent of the take at 997 01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:15,960 Speaker 1: the studio on everything, you sell the tape, everything. So 998 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,600 Speaker 1: I was doing quite well. And I knew that to 999 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,520 Speaker 1: produce I would have to take a loss right away. 1000 01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:27,200 Speaker 1: But Andy but he talked me into it and he 1001 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,640 Speaker 1: had me open out of town. That was but to 1002 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:35,600 Speaker 1: go to Canada and produce some Canadian acts at nimbus Um. 1003 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:40,040 Speaker 1: The thing was that I had landed immigrant status in Canada, 1004 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,280 Speaker 1: so because one of the bands that I played in 1005 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 1: was Canadian. In fact, it was a pretty successful band 1006 01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:52,400 Speaker 1: up there, which was called the Liverpool Set. They were 1007 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,280 Speaker 1: they were there were two English guys, a Scottish guy 1008 01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 1: and Latvian and a Canadian and me and um. I 1009 01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,280 Speaker 1: was the only person that had ever been to Liverpool. 1010 01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,680 Speaker 1: And it was called of course that was the e 1011 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:13,560 Speaker 1: and and so we toured all over Canada. At one 1012 01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,120 Speaker 1: point going across the border, the the immigration guy said 1013 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,080 Speaker 1: to me, why don't you just instead of going through 1014 01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,600 Speaker 1: all this hassle, you go through Uh. Everybody else in 1015 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,840 Speaker 1: the band was a landed immigrant. Why don't you just 1016 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,360 Speaker 1: get landed immigrant status? And I did so that was 1017 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:31,280 Speaker 1: very convenient for because it could we could have can 1018 01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:36,320 Speaker 1: Con Canadian content. And and in fact I still uh 1019 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 1: do go up to Canada. And for example, there's a 1020 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,080 Speaker 1: was I haven't been up in a while, but in 1021 01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:47,200 Speaker 1: the in the mid like two thousand ten, around that period, 1022 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,240 Speaker 1: there was a very popular band called the Trus hit 1023 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:53,560 Speaker 1: after hit up in Canada Columbia, and I was producing 1024 01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:59,280 Speaker 1: them um and continuing that can Con which is means 1025 01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,360 Speaker 1: they have to play certain percentage of Canadian records. There's 1026 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,280 Speaker 1: all these qualifying rules. So I was a Canadian producer 1027 01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,800 Speaker 1: as far as they were concerned. Um, so that worked great. 1028 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,560 Speaker 1: And I went up there and I made There was 1029 01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,320 Speaker 1: a group called It's not the Crowbar that you think of. 1030 01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:20,440 Speaker 1: It was an earlier crowbar also on Columbia. Yeah, okay, 1031 01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 1: so I produced that record and it went like platinum 1032 01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,200 Speaker 1: in Canada, was never released in the US. And it 1033 01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,080 Speaker 1: was pretty good. And he said, okay, you're ready. So 1034 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,840 Speaker 1: you're going to produce the next Alice album, which was 1035 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:38,400 Speaker 1: a Muscle of Love with Jack Richardson. And you know 1036 01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't Jack's cup of Tea anyway, so it was 1037 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:47,040 Speaker 1: your baby. Yeah, so that's how that worked out. But um, 1038 01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: he thought, I he thought because of what I had 1039 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,760 Speaker 1: done with the dolls for example, you know, it was 1040 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,760 Speaker 1: a different raw was changing. It was like you had 1041 01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,919 Speaker 1: the old school producers like like Phil and a few 1042 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,400 Speaker 1: other people, Phil Specter, who basically their production job was 1043 01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,760 Speaker 1: like a movie producer. You hire all the right people, 1044 01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:07,880 Speaker 1: you put them in the room, you stare the pot, 1045 01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,280 Speaker 1: and you get a product. Now, there were producers who 1046 01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:16,240 Speaker 1: were musicians, they were engineers, and so they had a 1047 01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,240 Speaker 1: much greater knowledge of what was going on, and so 1048 01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,240 Speaker 1: they were they were they were easing out the old 1049 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,920 Speaker 1: school guys. I think that made for a lot of pills, 1050 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:31,480 Speaker 1: paranoia and craziness. You felt lost at at some point, 1051 01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:37,120 Speaker 1: especially in California. But um and so I was one 1052 01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:41,480 Speaker 1: of those guys. Now there's another generation that. I mean, 1053 01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,520 Speaker 1: I don't feel exactly moved out yet, but certainly I'm 1054 01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,960 Speaker 1: not in my basement on a computer making hit records. 1055 01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,240 Speaker 1: And that's where it's at. You know, we're in my bedroom, 1056 01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:58,200 Speaker 1: we're on a plane. Um and I, um, you know, 1057 01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,800 Speaker 1: I totally respect that. Let's go back. Okay, So you 1058 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,720 Speaker 1: do the dolls, you do Muscle of Love, you do 1059 01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,240 Speaker 1: get your wings. That was before a Muscle of Love. 1060 01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:14,919 Speaker 1: Then Alice Cooper disintegrates. What happens after that? Uh, I'm 1061 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,800 Speaker 1: not sure what what order? You know? Then there was 1062 01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:26,120 Speaker 1: Patty I had produced which which album Radio Ethiopia. But 1063 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,960 Speaker 1: before that, I had produced a record, uh Bob Dylan 1064 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:36,720 Speaker 1: and I produced Alan Ginsburg and that and the real 1065 01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:38,640 Speaker 1: I think the reason I did that is because I 1066 01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,200 Speaker 1: went I read a thing in Rolling Stone where they 1067 01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:50,600 Speaker 1: called me heavy metal Maven and uh, you know, we 1068 01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 1: didn't talk about this, but before, while I was a janitor, 1069 01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,240 Speaker 1: I was also a client. I was doing the music 1070 01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,680 Speaker 1: which I I was writing the music for a television 1071 01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:08,720 Speaker 1: series that was the the after school ABC after School 1072 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:14,280 Speaker 1: special specials. It was called over seven and um and 1073 01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,400 Speaker 1: I was writing all the music for that show. So 1074 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,920 Speaker 1: I was not just a yeah no, no, I was 1075 01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:26,400 Speaker 1: not just a rock guy. I understood music and for 1076 01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:31,240 Speaker 1: you know what it's worth. Um and so I didn't 1077 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:36,240 Speaker 1: want to be heavy metal maven um. So the chance 1078 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,480 Speaker 1: I got to do this, Alan Ginsburg my jumped at 1079 01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:47,400 Speaker 1: and and that led to Patty and then um and 1080 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,840 Speaker 1: I think maybe Cheap Trick came after that, or another 1081 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:55,440 Speaker 1: Arosmith album, probably another Arosmith album, or Rick derring Darrell. 1082 01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,040 Speaker 1: I was getting loaded up. I was going from one 1083 01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:02,400 Speaker 1: to the other, the other Rick Derry injured by the way, 1084 01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:08,120 Speaker 1: um funny thing. I love Rick Derringer. And after I 1085 01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,400 Speaker 1: did that first Cheap Trick album, and we all know, 1086 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,520 Speaker 1: I found them in a bowling alley. So everybody knows 1087 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,400 Speaker 1: that story, we'll tell for those people who don't. I 1088 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,960 Speaker 1: was visiting a relative in Wauka Shaw, Wisconsin who said 1089 01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,560 Speaker 1: to me, you've got to see this band. Now. I 1090 01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:25,320 Speaker 1: was aware of Cheap Trek because they were, you know, 1091 01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,840 Speaker 1: they had a reputation, but the fact that they were 1092 01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,320 Speaker 1: playing in the bowling Alley lounge in the town where 1093 01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:34,280 Speaker 1: I'd come to see my friend relative. He took me 1094 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,720 Speaker 1: to the to see this band and I was knocked out. 1095 01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,800 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe how good they were. It was more 1096 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:44,160 Speaker 1: like a carnival act than it was so body um 1097 01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:50,080 Speaker 1: and I called up uh Tom Wrman, and I said, 1098 01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,040 Speaker 1: if you don't sign them in a week, I'm bringing 1099 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,040 Speaker 1: them to our c a. They're phenomenon. And Tom came 1100 01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,720 Speaker 1: to Wisconsin and saw the band and signed them quick 1101 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,440 Speaker 1: was done with Ken had a man he was managing, 1102 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:09,560 Speaker 1: and it was all done quickly. And that record I 1103 01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,600 Speaker 1: think was the last time they really were allowed to 1104 01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:16,760 Speaker 1: make political statements, because that's all that record is. It's 1105 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,600 Speaker 1: about I don't know if you feel really familiar with it. Well, 1106 01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,160 Speaker 1: the best track on that is me and d Cello. Well, yeah, 1107 01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:27,680 Speaker 1: that and that's not political. But I mean, certainly, you know, 1108 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,320 Speaker 1: um Daddy should have stayed in high school. He's a whore. 1109 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,360 Speaker 1: All those songs that are all very socio political songs, 1110 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,800 Speaker 1: and that's where the band was, and that's why Epic 1111 01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:44,040 Speaker 1: decided to market it to college and nowhere else. So 1112 01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,040 Speaker 1: now I wanted Now there was the second album calling. 1113 01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,680 Speaker 1: I was called to do the second album. I'm doing 1114 01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:54,720 Speaker 1: draw the line, which is you know, uh, dependent on 1115 01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:58,600 Speaker 1: when the dealer can get to So it's taking forever 1116 01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,520 Speaker 1: to do this record, and I can't I can't leave. 1117 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,400 Speaker 1: So I wanted Rick Derringer to produce the route of 1118 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,080 Speaker 1: the album. I said, he's the perfect guy to produce 1119 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:13,000 Speaker 1: the next record. But Tom Werman, who you know, he 1120 01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,800 Speaker 1: loved them dearly and he was ahead of A and 1121 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,879 Speaker 1: R for the label, so they really never had it. 1122 01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,320 Speaker 1: They didn't bandit, never saying it UM, and he wasn't 1123 01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:25,960 Speaker 1: willing to give him up, and he softened the band up. 1124 01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:32,439 Speaker 1: But um with good results in color brilliant album. Yeah, 1125 01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,760 Speaker 1: with good results. But then they got to do the 1126 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,960 Speaker 1: Buddhaicon album, which was harder. I did the bootun album right, 1127 01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:44,759 Speaker 1: and then the album after with taking Me Back that Yeah, 1128 01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,559 Speaker 1: that was they got a little harder, but their career 1129 01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,800 Speaker 1: got screwed up because they had to hesitate for the 1130 01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:54,599 Speaker 1: success of the Yeah. Yeah, okay, so you're working, when 1131 01:08:54,640 --> 01:09:02,160 Speaker 1: does it slow down? Slows down? In the eighties, UM 1132 01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:05,680 Speaker 1: first of all. After John died, I was devastated, and 1133 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:10,599 Speaker 1: so I tried to just like I wanted to exit 1134 01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,680 Speaker 1: the whole scene. And and I started using drugs. And 1135 01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,400 Speaker 1: then I decided to take a real vacation. I got 1136 01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,000 Speaker 1: myself an apartment on the Lower East Side while I 1137 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,439 Speaker 1: had a house, and we go down there for weeks 1138 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:32,720 Speaker 1: and just shoot dope and get really destroyed. And and 1139 01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,640 Speaker 1: I stayed like that, and I'm you know, and basically 1140 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:38,639 Speaker 1: every time I would stick my head out to listen 1141 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:40,599 Speaker 1: to the music that was going on, I was glad 1142 01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,160 Speaker 1: I was where I was, because it seemed to me 1143 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:50,280 Speaker 1: that I don't want to be presumped, to us be presumps. Okay, 1144 01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:53,439 Speaker 1: it seemed to me that they took that they took 1145 01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:59,639 Speaker 1: the worst parts of Arrowsmith and and turn that into 1146 01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,120 Speaker 1: kind of movement that had a lot of hair. And 1147 01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:06,960 Speaker 1: what they lost the production was always kind of good. 1148 01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:11,080 Speaker 1: That was, you know, always the same sound on the 1149 01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:16,080 Speaker 1: gated echo on the snare, and there was a sound 1150 01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:21,840 Speaker 1: and and but what they lost in that period was 1151 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,040 Speaker 1: the groove. You know. I think that's why disco was 1152 01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:29,760 Speaker 1: so popular. It's because they had had to groove. You know, 1153 01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,360 Speaker 1: what we were doing the most important thing to us 1154 01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,920 Speaker 1: was that, you know, you're like, yeah, man, it feels good, 1155 01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:41,719 Speaker 1: it feels good and and and suddenly that was gone 1156 01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:47,280 Speaker 1: and it was all bomb blast and hair and and 1157 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,439 Speaker 1: and the worst parts of arrasson you know, the sexual 1158 01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,720 Speaker 1: and you were not that that's bad, that's okay. We 1159 01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: all remember the hair bands were wiped out overnight by 1160 01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,920 Speaker 1: the seattle sound. Yeah, because it was uck again. It 1161 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:05,680 Speaker 1: was something honest, Um. But anyway, that's that's when it 1162 01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:09,960 Speaker 1: got slow and um and I ended up Stephen and 1163 01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:12,160 Speaker 1: Joe said hey, if we could. They had straightened their 1164 01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,280 Speaker 1: act out, and they came to me and they said, 1165 01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, every time we get a phone call, we 1166 01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,639 Speaker 1: think we're gonna hear that somebody mentions Jack. We said, 1167 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:23,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna hear you're dead. So um, So we went 1168 01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:25,720 Speaker 1: to this rehab monitor to go to it, and I 1169 01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,840 Speaker 1: did and I never looked back from that day. I 1170 01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:34,439 Speaker 1: mean it was like, okay, in the rehab days and 1171 01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:36,920 Speaker 1: you come out. I was thinking, that's a short period 1172 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,400 Speaker 1: of time. It must be hard to come out and function. 1173 01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:43,200 Speaker 1: If you know what, Fear is a great motivator because 1174 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:48,920 Speaker 1: if you've ever used heroin and and and and had withdrawals. 1175 01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,599 Speaker 1: You're just like to feel the freedom of never having 1176 01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:55,840 Speaker 1: to have withdrawals again, because that's what drives you do 1177 01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,200 Speaker 1: continue with the habit, because the withdrawals are so terrible. 1178 01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:04,080 Speaker 1: So um, I was like, I'm free. Fuck that, you know, 1179 01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,760 Speaker 1: I'm never going back to that. And I don't have to. 1180 01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:12,000 Speaker 1: And now I had this a lot of counseling, and 1181 01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,000 Speaker 1: they said, don't go to work for two years. I 1182 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:16,920 Speaker 1: could afford to go to not go to work for 1183 01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:24,320 Speaker 1: two years. Almost two years to the day, I got 1184 01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,320 Speaker 1: a call from Super Tramp to do this French deal 1185 01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,960 Speaker 1: they had, but still it was Super Tramp and and 1186 01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:33,840 Speaker 1: I came out here. I went to work at their 1187 01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:41,640 Speaker 1: studio and Encino and I was back and then Slash 1188 01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:48,920 Speaker 1: and Local Age and Clutch and you know, back to 1189 01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,559 Speaker 1: Arrowsmith again little South of Sanity, and now suddenly I 1190 01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:57,519 Speaker 1: was working again, and I got back into doing film score. 1191 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,800 Speaker 1: Let's let's jump to today. What you think about the 1192 01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:05,360 Speaker 1: music that's popular today? I don't know. I don't listen 1193 01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:11,479 Speaker 1: to it. I really don't. Honestly, isn't it terrible? I 1194 01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:15,800 Speaker 1: don't listen to music unless it's on by accident. I 1195 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:20,479 Speaker 1: don't look for it. I don't. I listened to classical music. 1196 01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:29,200 Speaker 1: I don't subscribe to Spotify or Apple Music. Um, someone says, 1197 01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:33,400 Speaker 1: here at track, what do you do? I find it 1198 01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:36,080 Speaker 1: somehow or another, or I have somebody else find it 1199 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:40,920 Speaker 1: for me. Um, you know I'm not in touch with 1200 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:48,000 Speaker 1: with I have a label now and I've signed the 1201 01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:52,240 Speaker 1: I've just signed yesterday. I signed. She signed the contract yesterday. 1202 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,800 Speaker 1: I signed it. She's a great artist out of Savannah, 1203 01:13:56,439 --> 01:14:01,360 Speaker 1: Kelly Cloko. She's wonderful of ours. I'm not going to producer. 1204 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:08,479 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have Andrew Dawson producer. Um, it's just, you know, 1205 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:12,680 Speaker 1: I can executive produce. But if there's something that is 1206 01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,680 Speaker 1: in my wheelhouse, I'll do it. But I'm you know, 1207 01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:20,519 Speaker 1: I don't pretend to be able to do what but 1208 01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 1: these other guys are doing that that has passed by me. 1209 01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,679 Speaker 1: But I can have all the fun. And we're building 1210 01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:30,519 Speaker 1: a studio. It's a beautiful studio. If I want to 1211 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:32,880 Speaker 1: continue to do film scores, I can put an orchestra 1212 01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,920 Speaker 1: in that studio. So where is it. It's in Guardina 1213 01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:41,360 Speaker 1: and it's a massive room and a beautiful control room. 1214 01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:45,559 Speaker 1: When we have over a million dollars of analog, outboard, digital, 1215 01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:50,960 Speaker 1: the best mixing everything and some having fun doing that 1216 01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:57,559 Speaker 1: and have I gave. I gave a ringo recently one 1217 01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,640 Speaker 1: of the songs that John It wrote that had his 1218 01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,799 Speaker 1: name one in it, right, and I said, it's time 1219 01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:09,120 Speaker 1: you know, so, um, I said, I said, you know, 1220 01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:11,360 Speaker 1: he says, you know I produced everything. I said, no, 1221 01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:14,559 Speaker 1: I'll produce your stuff. I said, but this song needs 1222 01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:18,759 Speaker 1: an orchestration, and I'll do your orchestration. So he's like, okay, 1223 01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:23,360 Speaker 1: so I'll be happy to do the beautiful orchestration stration 1224 01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:29,040 Speaker 1: for him. Um, I can produce a rock band, show 1225 01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:34,439 Speaker 1: me a rock band exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's I'm not 1226 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:39,280 Speaker 1: fighting an uphill battle here, I understand. Yeah. And but 1227 01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:43,040 Speaker 1: I'm having the time of my life. Um. You know, 1228 01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:47,439 Speaker 1: people are asking me to do interesting things all the time. Um, 1229 01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:51,559 Speaker 1: and and that's that's what I like. Okay, But you 1230 01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,519 Speaker 1: as a producer, you get a royalty. Do you find 1231 01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,640 Speaker 1: that you're getting Paige royalties? Getting what rot these? My 1232 01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:03,960 Speaker 1: word is a phenomenal Okay. So they're both still great, 1233 01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:08,000 Speaker 1: and you don't think the labels cheating you excessively if 1234 01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:11,200 Speaker 1: they are, Um, God bless them. Because I'm you know, 1235 01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,320 Speaker 1: I'll let my account in handle that. Some are my 1236 01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:18,320 Speaker 1: lawyers to handle that someday in the future. But but 1237 01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:22,800 Speaker 1: right now I haven't no complaints whatsoever. The catalog is 1238 01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:27,200 Speaker 1: good and deep and and um, I don't know who's 1239 01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:31,280 Speaker 1: doing buying these records, and but they're doing it, but 1240 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:35,120 Speaker 1: God bless them. And then, uh, now you've lived on 1241 01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:39,240 Speaker 1: Johnny Depp's property in his guesthouse. How'd you establish relationship 1242 01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,719 Speaker 1: with Johnny Depp? I had a I had a house 1243 01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:49,400 Speaker 1: in Fort Laura down eighties, mid eighties before I was 1244 01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:55,360 Speaker 1: totally um on the New River, and it was the 1245 01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,680 Speaker 1: place I go to in the winter UM and I 1246 01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:03,120 Speaker 1: interested in doing music. I was interested in sitting in 1247 01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:07,800 Speaker 1: the backyard. And Johnny got in touch with me through 1248 01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:09,960 Speaker 1: a friend that he because he had a band. He 1249 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:13,120 Speaker 1: wasn't an actor. He had a band and he was 1250 01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:15,439 Speaker 1: a big Arrowsmith fan and he was a fan of 1251 01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:17,760 Speaker 1: almost everything that I've done, and I was one of 1252 01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:21,800 Speaker 1: his zeroes. So Johnny would come over to the house 1253 01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:26,160 Speaker 1: and he would hang for days, and my wife would 1254 01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:28,479 Speaker 1: cook for him, and he was just so what what 1255 01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:33,960 Speaker 1: year we had approximate four um, And he would just 1256 01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,880 Speaker 1: hang out at my house. I never got to produce 1257 01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:40,920 Speaker 1: his band, but we became really good friends and we 1258 01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:47,559 Speaker 1: stayed in touch. Ah. He he had just done Nightmare 1259 01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:52,120 Speaker 1: in Elm Street, so whatever year that was. He's in 1260 01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:54,920 Speaker 1: the movie for two seconds. He gets killed in the 1261 01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:59,439 Speaker 1: first scene of the movie, but somebody spotted him and 1262 01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,559 Speaker 1: they offered him the twenty one Jump Street. And he 1263 01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:04,679 Speaker 1: came out here and he made friends with Nick Cage 1264 01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:09,559 Speaker 1: and a bunch of other people, and and he's just 1265 01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:13,760 Speaker 1: a super talented guy and not a bad guitar player either. 1266 01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:23,240 Speaker 1: So uh, we were friends from then and then um, 1267 01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,439 Speaker 1: when I came out here to do I mean I 1268 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,519 Speaker 1: ran into him from time to time. I did a 1269 01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,280 Speaker 1: couple of when he was on the Letterman Show. He 1270 01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:34,240 Speaker 1: would call me up in sam In Town and we 1271 01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:39,280 Speaker 1: would go meet and go out to dinner. But when 1272 01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:45,559 Speaker 1: I was doing that Music from Another Dimension, Stephen ran 1273 01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,280 Speaker 1: into him and invited him down to the studio, and 1274 01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,439 Speaker 1: when he saw me, I said, you can hang anytime 1275 01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:54,519 Speaker 1: you want. So then he told Joe and I had 1276 01:18:54,520 --> 01:19:00,439 Speaker 1: a couple of houses. Anybody wants to hang out anyway, 1277 01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:02,760 Speaker 1: that's you know. Johnny and I just go way back 1278 01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:07,839 Speaker 1: and he's he's just like a super generous person and 1279 01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:11,439 Speaker 1: a sweet guy. No matter what. The press loves to 1280 01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,760 Speaker 1: kill him. But right, you know him on the in 1281 01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,120 Speaker 1: real life. Yeah, I do exactly. Just a couple of 1282 01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:22,240 Speaker 1: other things. Uh, if you have to pick your favorite 1283 01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:27,600 Speaker 1: record you did, what would that be? Rock? Really? Yeah, 1284 01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:31,320 Speaker 1: let me tell you why. The thing I like about 1285 01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:34,160 Speaker 1: any The thing I like about any piece of art, 1286 01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:38,639 Speaker 1: any piece of art is truth, some bit of truth, 1287 01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:42,760 Speaker 1: something where it's all coming together. And I don't understand 1288 01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,160 Speaker 1: a lot about my My daughter is a big wig 1289 01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:48,600 Speaker 1: in the art world. She takes me to you know, 1290 01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:53,160 Speaker 1: art freeze here she came out. I don't understand a 1291 01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:55,920 Speaker 1: lot of that stuff. I should tries to explain it 1292 01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,360 Speaker 1: to me. There's a lot of art I understand. I 1293 01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,640 Speaker 1: don't understand a to rap music, but I consider it 1294 01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:08,120 Speaker 1: art um To me, Rocks is art and because of 1295 01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:14,960 Speaker 1: its truth. We created the We created the music in 1296 01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:20,040 Speaker 1: a in a warehouse at rehearsal. All of it was 1297 01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:25,919 Speaker 1: ground up. Note by not three months. This is pre production. 1298 01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:30,120 Speaker 1: As every day that went by in that warehouse, I 1299 01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,760 Speaker 1: put a rug somewhere, or coultu or a chair to 1300 01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:36,639 Speaker 1: change the sound of the room to make it so 1301 01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:41,240 Speaker 1: that we could work in it. But even the key 1302 01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:45,360 Speaker 1: of the song was dependent on the sound of the room, 1303 01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:49,840 Speaker 1: even the lyric was dependent on the field in that room. 1304 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,479 Speaker 1: Everything was dependent on the room. And so when it 1305 01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:55,760 Speaker 1: came time to record, I said, we're not moving out 1306 01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:58,040 Speaker 1: of here. Well, we're all a truck in and we'll 1307 01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:05,520 Speaker 1: record the whole thing right in the room was we're Waltham, Massachusetts. Um. 1308 01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:10,040 Speaker 1: And so that that album has a truth to it. 1309 01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:15,200 Speaker 1: It's all it's like an unmanufactured sounding. It just sounds 1310 01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:18,160 Speaker 1: like it's happening. You know, it's not live, but it 1311 01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,439 Speaker 1: all the I mean, the band members are playing live, 1312 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:26,160 Speaker 1: but has overdubs. UM. But that's my favorite. Has a 1313 01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:29,120 Speaker 1: vibe and a feel and a sound. That was also 1314 01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,400 Speaker 1: the biggest up until maybe you know, Toys in the 1315 01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,880 Speaker 1: Attic is far bigger, really bigger than Rocks. Have Toys 1316 01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,960 Speaker 1: in the Attics Now, I weighed in about eighteen million, 1317 01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:44,720 Speaker 1: what's Rocks about fifteen and Boudican is over fifteen. My 1318 01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,640 Speaker 1: catalogs nice okay, And then uh, if you have to 1319 01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:55,120 Speaker 1: pick a favorite track, you worked on beautiful Boy. That 1320 01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:59,120 Speaker 1: all that almost needs no explanation Okay. On that note, 1321 01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:02,280 Speaker 1: unless there's a story where you need to tell Okay. 1322 01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:05,080 Speaker 1: This has been wonderful going into the belly of the 1323 01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:08,600 Speaker 1: beast with Jack Douglas stories most people are unaware of. 1324 01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,000 Speaker 1: It's been a great conversation. Thanks so much for coming by. Thanks, 1325 01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:15,200 Speaker 1: I'm always good to see you another dinner soon. Absolutely 1326 01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:26,480 Speaker 1: looking forward to him