Speaker 1: Native Land Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership
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Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, this is a very special Father's Day edition
Speaker 3: of our mini pod, and we want to welcome you home,
Speaker 3: especially to the fathers. Andrew has some big thoughts on
Speaker 3: what it means to be a black father in this country,
Speaker 3: and so, Andrew, I want you to take it away.
Speaker 2: Thank you sis. The reputation of black fathers has weathered
Speaker 2: the bumps, bruises, and pains of not only the impacts
Speaker 2: of the actual job of being a father, but also
Speaker 2: the mercilessly relentless media and societal narratives that are often critical.
Speaker 2: Such words as deadbeat, useless, absent, uncaring, and not a
Speaker 2: family person are just some of the words, phrases, descriptions
Speaker 2: that might accompany the misguided definition of a father. Nothing, however,
Speaker 2: could be further from the truth. As we approach this
Speaker 2: Father's Day, let's use our energy to tell a more
Speaker 2: complete and honest story of black men who are also fathers.
Speaker 2: But before we deepen into this mini pod with me
Speaker 2: and my co host, I have a very very simple
Speaker 2: request for our listeners, and that is could you please
Speaker 2: take sixty seconds, one minute to reflect on your experience
Speaker 2: with your own father. It could be a precious memory
Speaker 2: that encapsulates, in some short form the best memory you
Speaker 2: have of your father, living or past. Maybe you could
Speaker 2: even offer what your father may have offered you by
Speaker 2: way of the best advice that you didn't know was
Speaker 2: at the point, but you by and by came to
Speaker 2: learn and benefit from. And this is actually where I'd
Speaker 2: like to begin the conversation with my co host, which is,
Speaker 2: I know each have different experiences with father and father
Speaker 2: figures and our lives, and I certainly don't expect any
Speaker 2: of us to romanticize any part of it, but to
Speaker 2: hopefully talk honestly about what it means. But this was
Speaker 2: really Tiffany's idea to sort of deepen into this conversation
Speaker 2: about fathers and black men as fathers. And then I
Speaker 2: saw it on our database and I was like, I
Speaker 2: want to borrow this from you, because I kept thinking,
Speaker 2: just as Mother's Day had recently passed, about how, just
Speaker 2: how in every single way it seems society re emphasizes
Speaker 2: and defines and glorifies the role of the mother, which
Speaker 2: I think is awesome amazing, and I do the same
Speaker 2: thing for my own and for my children's mother, my wife.
Speaker 2: But I often, you know, sort of struggle with the
Speaker 2: fact that the role of the black male father is
Speaker 2: not as well extolled, is not as celebrated. In so
Speaker 2: many ways, it's the exact opposite. It's given a reputation,
Speaker 2: a brand, and it's our fight to struggle to come
Speaker 2: from underneath that brand. And if you do rise from
Speaker 2: underneath it, you're an exception, a very rare exception. And
Speaker 2: I think all of us know that that isn't the
Speaker 2: total and complete truth. So my question to y'all is
Speaker 2: if you could offer a memory, a thought, maybe piece
Speaker 2: of advice that sort of sticks with you when you
Speaker 2: think about your relationship to your own dad.
Speaker 3: Well, the first thing that came to mind when you
Speaker 3: were talking about a memory is my dad used to
Speaker 3: take me and my cousins to feed the ducks, which
Speaker 3: we can't do anymore in Seattle. But I love that.
Speaker 3: What I know is that my dad was a constant
Speaker 3: is a constant presence, and I know that that is
Speaker 3: an exception and not the norm, not just for I
Speaker 3: think for black fathers, but I think for so many
Speaker 3: kids in their fathers, even if they grew up in
Speaker 3: the house with them, like there's a label put on
Speaker 3: them of like you're the provider, and so that means
Speaker 3: you work your skin, your hands to the bone to provide.
Speaker 3: And that means also that you can't be there with
Speaker 3: your kids as much. But I feel really fortunate, spoiled
Speaker 3: and privileged to have grown up with a dad who
Speaker 3: was always there. And if he wasn't doing something for
Speaker 3: fun with me, we were definitely on a way to
Speaker 3: a protest. So that's that's the memory they come to place.
Speaker 1: That we love Papa Rye. I. So my dad passed
Speaker 1: away when I was twelve, I think, but my father,
Speaker 1: I was a daddy's girl all day, he too, was
Speaker 1: a constant presence. We didn't live in the same house.
Speaker 1: He and my mom were together long enough to create
Speaker 1: me and that was it. But my father spent the
Speaker 1: night at our house sleib on the count every Christmas
Speaker 1: Eve to be there with me, and I would open
Speaker 1: my toys in the morning I could be with If
Speaker 1: I wanted to be with my father, I was with
Speaker 1: my father. Now that meant wherever my father was, I
Speaker 1: was there. If it was at a cabaret at midnight, and.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be with him.
Speaker 1: I was there, and he used to work for the city,
Speaker 1: driving like the big machines that paved the roads, and
Speaker 1: he would drive by to see me. He had a motorcycle.
Speaker 1: I would be on. This is the eighties, so kidreds
Speaker 1: were different. I'd be on the motorcycle with him. One
Speaker 1: of my earliest memories. And I think it's important to
Speaker 1: say this to reflect the genuine love of all fathers.
Speaker 1: My dad struggled with addiction and he would have me
Speaker 1: with him, and he was everybody, kind to everyone. He
Speaker 1: just never met a stranger. He loved animals. He was
Speaker 1: kind to people, and if you were like the winos
Speaker 1: on the corner, my dad would spend his last dollar
Speaker 1: to get them a fifth or whatever. And I remember
Speaker 1: because I could be with him wherever. One of my
Speaker 1: earliest memories, I was a little girl, maybe three or four,
Speaker 1: and I was on his lap and my dad was
Speaker 1: with his friends doing what they do, and it was
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys and they're like Bronco, like Bronson
Speaker 1: Reed was my father's name. Bronco puts your daughter to bed.
Speaker 1: And my father has some choice words my daughter can
Speaker 1: sit up here all day if you want to on
Speaker 1: my lap. It's like midnight. And he said, man, please,
Speaker 1: my daughter gonna be cool. She gonna know about all this.
Speaker 1: And they start rolling the weed by daughters, like watch this, baby,
Speaker 1: what's this? I was like a joint. Ain't nobody gonna
Speaker 1: be in and talk about daughters. But he was an
Speaker 1: amazing dad, you know, Like I just I don't romanticize
Speaker 1: what it would have been like to have doctor Huxtable
Speaker 1: and Claire as my parents. I think the parents I
Speaker 1: had well prepared me for this life and made me
Speaker 1: relatable to people beyond a socioeconomic status. You can drop
Speaker 1: me off in the hood on any Moka Boulevard and
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable. I'm at home. And my father in large
Speaker 1: part to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny you described your dad as sort of gregarious, outgoing,
Speaker 2: didn't meet a stranger. Yeah, my dad was the same way,
Speaker 2: and also struggle with addiction, alcohol addiction in his case.
Speaker 2: And I remember it feels like all of it so vividly,
Speaker 2: because so my dad was a construction worker growing up,
Speaker 2: and my mom drove drove school buses, and there were
Speaker 2: seven of us, you know, seven kids, and my dad would.
Speaker 2: I quite frankly remember my dad being more at my
Speaker 2: school plays, track meets school events even more than my mom.
Speaker 2: And that's not to say one is good than the other.
Speaker 2: My mother oftentimes couldn't do it because she would pick
Speaker 2: up after driving the school bus and she worked down
Speaker 2: the street at the dry cleaners where she would press
Speaker 2: clothes until it closed, and then on the weekends she
Speaker 2: would clean houses and we would often go with her,
Speaker 2: so she was often you know, out there making sure
Speaker 2: that we had, you know, what, she was earning what
Speaker 2: she needed to to take care of all of us.
Speaker 2: But my father would like be the funniest guy in
Speaker 2: the room. He cracked the jokes, he's you know, you know,
Speaker 2: slapping it, you know, on the back with everybody, and
Speaker 2: people just loved him. They gravitated to him. I certainly
Speaker 2: gravitated to him in that way. And then there was
Speaker 2: this point at which you would start to like, you know,
Speaker 2: get a little nervous because you knew Daddy was drinking
Speaker 2: and now at this point, you know, he'll go beyond
Speaker 2: that point. And then it turned you know, ugly, and
Speaker 2: mostly it would turn ugly for my mother, and I
Speaker 2: remember not being able to reconcile the two, like just
Speaker 2: being is my dad a bad guy or a good guy?
Speaker 2: Because I was experiencing him so much as a good guy,
Speaker 2: and then I see him argue with my mother, or
Speaker 2: I see him drunken then pass out, and you know,
Speaker 2: not have his you know, his his wist, a bottom
Speaker 2: or whatever. But but he was such a constant presence
Speaker 2: even even through all of it, which is so strange
Speaker 2: because you think of alcoholism, and you think of alcohol abuse,
Speaker 2: and you think about homes that seem or feel broken,
Speaker 2: and it's easy to put that parent in a box
Speaker 2: and you know which one is the bad one and
Speaker 2: which one is a good one, and which one to
Speaker 2: take care of you. And I don't have that of him.
Speaker 2: And I should also note today that we are sitting
Speaker 2: down and speaking is my dad's birthday. He passed away
Speaker 2: the year after I ran for governor, a few months
Speaker 2: after the race for governor was over. And I remember
Speaker 2: feeling like like not the good child because I didn't
Speaker 2: know he was sick. He didn't share it. It was
Speaker 2: such a shock, you know, such a surprise. You know,
Speaker 2: the next time I see him was at a hospital.
Speaker 2: He's not speaking and you know a few days later,
Speaker 2: you know Dad's gone. But it is also very much
Speaker 2: so him. He didn't tell his problems to anybody. He
Speaker 2: didn't lean on anybody. He didn't want to be a
Speaker 2: burden to anybody. If something was wrong, he just held it.
Speaker 2: He just kept it. So I'm thinking about my dad
Speaker 2: being deployed by the campaign, going to these neighborhoods, going
Speaker 2: back to Miami, like just doing what he could for
Speaker 2: his son while in pain and not sharing it. And
Speaker 2: you know some you know, guilt around that, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, of course. But I think part of what
Speaker 2: makes the job of a black father's particularly challenging is
Speaker 2: is not only do you have filling the role right,
Speaker 2: you got to show up. You're often the provider. Right.
Speaker 2: People who even grow with Dad's in the home, as
Speaker 2: you referenced, Angela, you know, they may be in the home,
Speaker 2: but they're also working this. You know, the society gives
Speaker 2: them a burden that they have to cure. So he
Speaker 2: did those things. But I think as I reflect on him,
Speaker 2: I'm so blessed for the nuggets. You know, he would
Speaker 2: tell every one of my others Blin's watch out for
Speaker 2: this one. Because God knows he don't have it in
Speaker 2: common sense. You know, he thought I was. He thought
Speaker 2: I was a kid that everybody was gonna get overall
Speaker 2: because I saw innocence, yeah, sense and everything. And Dad
Speaker 2: is like, nah son, you know, so he's telling my
Speaker 2: little baby sister, watch out for your brother.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not the way that's supposed to be.
Speaker 2: She's the lawyer's circle of everybody and everything. Yeah, all right, y'all,
Speaker 2: we're going to take a quick break, but we'll be
Speaker 2: right back. I think about the role that we have
Speaker 2: to play. And then later on top of that, what
Speaker 2: society then says you are? Yeah, in every single way,
Speaker 2: shape and form. And I just wonder, particularly for you, Angela,
Speaker 2: because you do sit an interesting intersection with Hollywood film production,
Speaker 2: the portrayal of figures, and our community is like, is
Speaker 2: it that saleable to tell the story repeatedly of an
Speaker 2: absentee dad who ain't about chit versus a more complete
Speaker 2: and accomplished story.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, I.
Speaker 3: Have a unique I think bias here, and I think
Speaker 3: part of it is I really do believe that a
Speaker 3: lot of people make film, right, screenplays and all of
Speaker 3: that based on their own experiences. Yeah, like people pile
Speaker 3: I feel like often on Tyler Perry and I don't
Speaker 3: really see it in the same way. He has been
Speaker 3: relentless about speaking his truth about his experience growing up
Speaker 3: around his mom when he went into the shop with her,
Speaker 3: like he talks about his own experience, and so you
Speaker 3: can get mad at it, but really, what is the
Speaker 3: societal condition that is there for us to address? I
Speaker 3: do think we could spend a lot more time highlighting
Speaker 3: not just the black father, but also black families and
Speaker 3: the ways, especially now that people come together alternative to
Speaker 3: create loving environments. I think one of the dopest things
Speaker 3: about the black community historically has been our village, you know,
Speaker 3: the mentality that it takes a village to raise a child.
Speaker 3: And sometimes your aunties and your cousins and all that
Speaker 3: ain't blood related. But we were there because as a
Speaker 3: protection mechanism, and that is deep love that has virtually
Speaker 3: been destroyed now by this is not the point of
Speaker 3: this particular podcast, but like by gentrification and housing affordability
Speaker 3: and access and all that, some of those things have
Speaker 3: been broken down and it has been very detrimental to
Speaker 3: I think these kids, you know, So I think that
Speaker 3: where fathers had to work. You know, Auntie so and
Speaker 3: so came in and took over this grandmar or this
Speaker 3: nana came in. And I think that some of those
Speaker 3: things should be celebrated more than what the father didn't do,
Speaker 3: the fact that this kid ended up our right, is
Speaker 3: a testament to how incredibly dope and versatile and innovative
Speaker 3: the black community is.
Speaker 1: I think we should do a minipod on Tyler Perry
Speaker 1: or maybe something like how Black art and like storytellers.
Speaker 1: But I just want to offer this, and I did
Speaker 1: not plan this for this particular episode, but I just
Speaker 1: wrote something on black fathers, and so I had to
Speaker 1: do research on it. And seventy percent of black fathers
Speaker 1: who lived with their children were more likely most likely
Speaker 1: to have bathe dress changed, or help their baby's potty
Speaker 1: every day. So even this narrative of black fathers aren't there,
Speaker 1: it's not true. The data doesn't support it. And that
Speaker 1: was according to the CDC, the Center for Disease Control.
Speaker 1: The data showed that that was even more than white fathers.
Speaker 1: They were at sixty percent, Latino fathers were at forty
Speaker 1: five percent. Those same black fathers were also more likely
Speaker 1: to have eaten a meal with their children. And the
Speaker 1: numbers are high, not just for biological fathers living in
Speaker 1: the home, but also for black fathers stepping into the
Speaker 1: role of a step parent. And it shows that black
Speaker 1: fathers maintained consistent involvement with their children even when outside
Speaker 1: the home. I hate to say this, I may lose
Speaker 1: a man corner here too in the audience, but I
Speaker 1: have to say President Obama was also somebody who perpetuated
Speaker 1: a narrative of this absent black father that was not true.
Speaker 1: He represented a black father who was present, but in
Speaker 1: his remarks he would make these comments and it's like,
Speaker 1: what are you basing that on. That's not true. His
Speaker 1: black father was not present, and so to your point,
Speaker 1: maybe he was talking about his own experience, but then
Speaker 1: would carry that message in as the president. When you're speaking,
Speaker 1: you're not speaking to your father, You're speaking to the everybody.
Speaker 1: And so the world would hear you lecture on some
Speaker 1: level black fathers, and it just it wasn't warranted. It's like, hey,
Speaker 1: these kids go to sidwell with your kids, you know,
Speaker 1: like these kids' fathers are doing the same thing you're doing.
Speaker 2: He could have also been a victim of what society
Speaker 2: re emphasizes about who we are and how we show.
Speaker 1: Up who they expected him to be. So he wanted
Speaker 1: to say, no, I'm on some level, I'm one of
Speaker 1: the good ones.
Speaker 3: Look at me, and.
Speaker 2: You hear another expression, well.
Speaker 1: Very honest about how things worked in their home and
Speaker 1: and being challenged for a good decade in their marriageability.
Speaker 2: And I get that too, right, because he has he
Speaker 2: had expectations put on him of how he was supposed
Speaker 2: to perform. I always find it interesting when people think
Speaker 2: of dads as like disassociated emotionally from you know, their kids.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know black dads who did skin the
Speaker 2: skin immediately after the mother, did skin to skin contact
Speaker 2: with the baby after the baby was born. Who were
Speaker 2: the ones who got I did? Of course, yeah, all three.
Speaker 4: For sure.
Speaker 1: You do it with both the twins and.
Speaker 2: Broad chests premature and there you know they're they're there everything.
Speaker 2: I take great pride in the role I'm able to
Speaker 2: play with my kids today. And it wasn't always that way.
Speaker 2: I think about, you know, when I was still very
Speaker 2: heavily entrenched in politics, and there were others in addition
Speaker 2: into RJ. But my mother, my mother in law, you know,
Speaker 2: sitters who would have to take on more of those
Speaker 2: present roles. And I think I remember reflecting, like after
Speaker 2: I lost the race, I kept thinking like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: all these years that I can never get back. I
Speaker 2: gave to this thing and I'll never and and and
Speaker 2: it's okay. And I'm okay with it now because there
Speaker 2: are new moments that we're able to create. I love
Speaker 2: being emotionally in tune with them. I want my kids,
Speaker 2: you know, to talk to me. I want my third
Speaker 2: one to talk less because he just tells all. But
Speaker 2: we show up and we grieve and we have, you know,
Speaker 2: just deep hopes. And I think some of what I've
Speaker 2: always tried to figure out, like my dad would always
Speaker 2: couch a good moment with like you know, the shoes
Speaker 2: can drop, the shoes gonna drop tomorrow. Like he would
Speaker 2: never let you get too high on the on the
Speaker 2: upswing because he was trying to prepare me for the
Speaker 2: disappointing moments and days. And I know a lot of
Speaker 2: dads who that you like, you want to tell your
Speaker 2: kid there's something around the band, like be happy about
Speaker 2: this thing, be okay. But they didn't let us go
Speaker 2: overboard because they knew that there was a much crueler
Speaker 2: and tougher society out there, conditions that they could not control.
Speaker 2: That they didn't want us to be thrown completely off
Speaker 2: and just set back on our heels. They're trying to
Speaker 2: prepare us. And I struggle now with a different preparation
Speaker 2: from my children, because I don't want them to, you know,
Speaker 2: to think that everything's funky dory in the world and
Speaker 2: everybody wishes them well and and that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: But also I don't want them having, you know, everything,
Speaker 2: seeing everything through.
Speaker 1: It's a unique burden that black fathers have be It's
Speaker 1: it's like your mind. And I think this is unique
Speaker 1: to black children. They come in the world as ours
Speaker 1: in terms of the communities. If you see any black
Speaker 1: child anywhere, you feel responsible.
Speaker 2: Too close to the you know whatever that is.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't remember for you all the way
Speaker 1: through you.
Speaker 2: Yes, swinging thing up there coming when it.
Speaker 3: Comes, she's my dad would say, she alive.
Speaker 1: These children, I think because of the trauma of the plantation,
Speaker 1: that they could be beaten or taken away from you,
Speaker 1: or meet looked as an adult at a certain point
Speaker 1: when they were far too young that you do feel
Speaker 1: this traumatic protection for black children and you feel licensed
Speaker 1: to intervene. So if you see a father walking with
Speaker 1: his kids and you don't know this man from Adam,
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of black women take license,
Speaker 1: like those are my children, to say something if I
Speaker 1: want to, And you can say to this father that
Speaker 1: baby need a jacket on, need a hat on his head.
Speaker 1: And black men seem to understand this. You know, it
Speaker 1: might be frustrating and annoying, but it's like this is
Speaker 1: this is how it works at the playground. My friends
Speaker 1: who have kids, one of my close friends, he has
Speaker 1: three kids. I went to the playground with him and
Speaker 1: it's a smortgage board of kids there, but the black kids,
Speaker 1: all the black parents responsible for the black kids. They
Speaker 1: didn't say anything to the white kids because you.
Speaker 2: Ever, you never know.
Speaker 1: But if you're in my community, I know it's like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: I told him to get down.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 1: Know, like, yes, this is a collective raising of our right.
Speaker 1: But can I just say this too, really quickly about
Speaker 1: your dad, Andrew, I hear you about like being in pain.
Speaker 1: I think that is quintessential black men. Uh my father,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. He ended up passing away from serrosis
Speaker 1: to the liver. My grandfather was like that something about
Speaker 1: black man where it's like we don't we well of
Speaker 1: our generation and before where you don't get to wear
Speaker 1: your feelings. And also I would bet I didn't know
Speaker 1: your dad, but I know your dad, and I would
Speaker 1: bet he would not change any amount of time he spent.
Speaker 1: No way was he gonna be at home feeling pain.
Speaker 1: I gotta go hit this payment. That's what I know
Speaker 1: how to do. And it's my boy. You know, my
Speaker 1: boy is running for governor. I'm gonna go out and
Speaker 1: do this because this makes me not think about the pain.
Speaker 1: It not makes me think about my illness. You know.
Speaker 3: He was so yes, So I want you to like
Speaker 3: you're talking about guilt like Andre, he was doing what
Speaker 3: he is.
Speaker 1: Proud.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll tell you. I know there are more
Speaker 2: proud ones out there just like him, where we were
Speaker 2: running short on time. But I just I hope that
Speaker 2: on this Father's Day that we do collectively, individually and
Speaker 2: everywhere we can celebrate, lift up, compliment, share and experience
Speaker 2: that alters other people's narrative about what they think we
Speaker 2: are and how we show up, not necessarily just for them,
Speaker 2: but for us. It pains me when I see impressions
Speaker 2: of black men as fathers that are wayward and don't
Speaker 2: reflect the men that I know. And so this isn't
Speaker 2: too this isn't about scripting to other people so that
Speaker 2: they understand and appreciate us. It's a script to ourselves,
Speaker 2: a reminder to ourselves the ways in which we are
Speaker 2: pretty incredible beings despite what they want us to believe
Speaker 2: about us. I want to think.
Speaker 1: You you can. We just say real quickly to our
Speaker 1: resident father, you are a wonderful black dad. Angela has
Speaker 1: spent a lot more time with Andrew and the kids.
Speaker 1: We went to brunch a couple of weeks ago. And Andrew,
Speaker 1: I mean three kids, you don't get to enjoy anything.
Speaker 1: Andrew would be ready to go put a school of
Speaker 1: ice cream, and it was like they would descend and
Speaker 1: the ice cream was gone. Everything I'm getting my own pants.
Speaker 1: They would descend and his pancakes are gone. They were
Speaker 1: just like devouring everything.
Speaker 2: You have to go into the poetry. If I want
Speaker 2: something for myself, I have to go into the pantry,
Speaker 2: sit down and put my foot up against.
Speaker 4: The whatever you I love them, and they're hanging off
Speaker 4: you there, Damon said, he wrapped around even when you couldn't.
Speaker 1: You were being choked, And I mean if you're standing
Speaker 1: up one hanging off your arm. But those kids adore
Speaker 1: it is a beautiful thing to see your kids the
Speaker 1: way they love you, and to hear you tell your story.
Speaker 1: And I think what stories might your children tell about
Speaker 1: you one day? And I have no doubt they will
Speaker 1: all be joyful and so happy Father's.
Speaker 2: Day out there to all of you, and welcome home,
Speaker 2: Welcome home.
Speaker 1: All right, thanks for listening to you, guys. Please please
Speaker 1: please remember to rate, review, subscribe, and tune into our
Speaker 1: regular episode on Thursdays. Welcome home, y'all. Native Land Pod
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