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Speaker 1: Native Land Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership

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Speaker 1: with Recent Choice Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, welcome, Welcome.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, this is a very special Father's Day edition

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Speaker 3: of our mini pod, and we want to welcome you home,

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Speaker 3: especially to the fathers. Andrew has some big thoughts on

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Speaker 3: what it means to be a black father in this country,

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Speaker 3: and so, Andrew, I want you to take it away.

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Speaker 2: Thank you sis. The reputation of black fathers has weathered

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Speaker 2: the bumps, bruises, and pains of not only the impacts

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Speaker 2: of the actual job of being a father, but also

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Speaker 2: the mercilessly relentless media and societal narratives that are often critical.

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Speaker 2: Such words as deadbeat, useless, absent, uncaring, and not a

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Speaker 2: family person are just some of the words, phrases, descriptions

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Speaker 2: that might accompany the misguided definition of a father. Nothing, however,

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Speaker 2: could be further from the truth. As we approach this

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Speaker 2: Father's Day, let's use our energy to tell a more

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Speaker 2: complete and honest story of black men who are also fathers.

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Speaker 2: But before we deepen into this mini pod with me

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Speaker 2: and my co host, I have a very very simple

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Speaker 2: request for our listeners, and that is could you please

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Speaker 2: take sixty seconds, one minute to reflect on your experience

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Speaker 2: with your own father. It could be a precious memory

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Speaker 2: that encapsulates, in some short form the best memory you

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Speaker 2: have of your father, living or past. Maybe you could

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Speaker 2: even offer what your father may have offered you by

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Speaker 2: way of the best advice that you didn't know was

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Speaker 2: at the point, but you by and by came to

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Speaker 2: learn and benefit from. And this is actually where I'd

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Speaker 2: like to begin the conversation with my co host, which is,

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Speaker 2: I know each have different experiences with father and father

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Speaker 2: figures and our lives, and I certainly don't expect any

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Speaker 2: of us to romanticize any part of it, but to

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Speaker 2: hopefully talk honestly about what it means. But this was

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Speaker 2: really Tiffany's idea to sort of deepen into this conversation

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Speaker 2: about fathers and black men as fathers. And then I

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Speaker 2: saw it on our database and I was like, I

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Speaker 2: want to borrow this from you, because I kept thinking,

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Speaker 2: just as Mother's Day had recently passed, about how, just

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Speaker 2: how in every single way it seems society re emphasizes

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Speaker 2: and defines and glorifies the role of the mother, which

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Speaker 2: I think is awesome amazing, and I do the same

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Speaker 2: thing for my own and for my children's mother, my wife.

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Speaker 2: But I often, you know, sort of struggle with the

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Speaker 2: fact that the role of the black male father is

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Speaker 2: not as well extolled, is not as celebrated. In so

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Speaker 2: many ways, it's the exact opposite. It's given a reputation,

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Speaker 2: a brand, and it's our fight to struggle to come

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Speaker 2: from underneath that brand. And if you do rise from

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Speaker 2: underneath it, you're an exception, a very rare exception. And

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Speaker 2: I think all of us know that that isn't the

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Speaker 2: total and complete truth. So my question to y'all is

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Speaker 2: if you could offer a memory, a thought, maybe piece

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Speaker 2: of advice that sort of sticks with you when you

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Speaker 2: think about your relationship to your own dad.

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Speaker 3: Well, the first thing that came to mind when you

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Speaker 3: were talking about a memory is my dad used to

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Speaker 3: take me and my cousins to feed the ducks, which

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Speaker 3: we can't do anymore in Seattle. But I love that.

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Speaker 3: What I know is that my dad was a constant

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Speaker 3: is a constant presence, and I know that that is

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Speaker 3: an exception and not the norm, not just for I

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Speaker 3: think for black fathers, but I think for so many

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Speaker 3: kids in their fathers, even if they grew up in

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Speaker 3: the house with them, like there's a label put on

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Speaker 3: them of like you're the provider, and so that means

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Speaker 3: you work your skin, your hands to the bone to provide.

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Speaker 3: And that means also that you can't be there with

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Speaker 3: your kids as much. But I feel really fortunate, spoiled

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Speaker 3: and privileged to have grown up with a dad who

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Speaker 3: was always there. And if he wasn't doing something for

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Speaker 3: fun with me, we were definitely on a way to

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Speaker 3: a protest. So that's that's the memory they come to place.

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Speaker 1: That we love Papa Rye. I. So my dad passed

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Speaker 1: away when I was twelve, I think, but my father,

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Speaker 1: I was a daddy's girl all day, he too, was

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Speaker 1: a constant presence. We didn't live in the same house.

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Speaker 1: He and my mom were together long enough to create

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Speaker 1: me and that was it. But my father spent the

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Speaker 1: night at our house sleib on the count every Christmas

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Speaker 1: Eve to be there with me, and I would open

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Speaker 1: my toys in the morning I could be with If

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be with my father, I was with

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Speaker 1: my father. Now that meant wherever my father was, I

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Speaker 1: was there. If it was at a cabaret at midnight, and.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be with him.

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Speaker 1: I was there, and he used to work for the city,

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Speaker 1: driving like the big machines that paved the roads, and

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Speaker 1: he would drive by to see me. He had a motorcycle.

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Speaker 1: I would be on. This is the eighties, so kidreds

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Speaker 1: were different. I'd be on the motorcycle with him. One

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Speaker 1: of my earliest memories. And I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: say this to reflect the genuine love of all fathers.

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Speaker 1: My dad struggled with addiction and he would have me

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Speaker 1: with him, and he was everybody, kind to everyone. He

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Speaker 1: just never met a stranger. He loved animals. He was

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Speaker 1: kind to people, and if you were like the winos

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Speaker 1: on the corner, my dad would spend his last dollar

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Speaker 1: to get them a fifth or whatever. And I remember

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Speaker 1: because I could be with him wherever. One of my

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Speaker 1: earliest memories, I was a little girl, maybe three or four,

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Speaker 1: and I was on his lap and my dad was

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Speaker 1: with his friends doing what they do, and it was

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Speaker 1: a bunch of guys and they're like Bronco, like Bronson

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Speaker 1: Reed was my father's name. Bronco puts your daughter to bed.

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Speaker 1: And my father has some choice words my daughter can

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Speaker 1: sit up here all day if you want to on

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Speaker 1: my lap. It's like midnight. And he said, man, please,

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Speaker 1: my daughter gonna be cool. She gonna know about all this.

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Speaker 1: And they start rolling the weed by daughters, like watch this, baby,

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Speaker 1: what's this? I was like a joint. Ain't nobody gonna

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Speaker 1: be in and talk about daughters. But he was an

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Speaker 1: amazing dad, you know, Like I just I don't romanticize

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Speaker 1: what it would have been like to have doctor Huxtable

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Speaker 1: and Claire as my parents. I think the parents I

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Speaker 1: had well prepared me for this life and made me

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Speaker 1: relatable to people beyond a socioeconomic status. You can drop

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Speaker 1: me off in the hood on any Moka Boulevard and

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Speaker 1: I'm comfortable. I'm at home. And my father in large

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Speaker 1: part to that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny you described your dad as sort of gregarious, outgoing,

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Speaker 2: didn't meet a stranger. Yeah, my dad was the same way,

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Speaker 2: and also struggle with addiction, alcohol addiction in his case.

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Speaker 2: And I remember it feels like all of it so vividly,

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Speaker 2: because so my dad was a construction worker growing up,

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Speaker 2: and my mom drove drove school buses, and there were

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Speaker 2: seven of us, you know, seven kids, and my dad would.

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Speaker 2: I quite frankly remember my dad being more at my

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Speaker 2: school plays, track meets school events even more than my mom.

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Speaker 2: And that's not to say one is good than the other.

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Speaker 2: My mother oftentimes couldn't do it because she would pick

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Speaker 2: up after driving the school bus and she worked down

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Speaker 2: the street at the dry cleaners where she would press

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Speaker 2: clothes until it closed, and then on the weekends she

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Speaker 2: would clean houses and we would often go with her,

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Speaker 2: so she was often you know, out there making sure

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Speaker 2: that we had, you know, what, she was earning what

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Speaker 2: she needed to to take care of all of us.

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Speaker 2: But my father would like be the funniest guy in

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Speaker 2: the room. He cracked the jokes, he's you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: slapping it, you know, on the back with everybody, and

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Speaker 2: people just loved him. They gravitated to him. I certainly

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Speaker 2: gravitated to him in that way. And then there was

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Speaker 2: this point at which you would start to like, you know,

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Speaker 2: get a little nervous because you knew Daddy was drinking

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Speaker 2: and now at this point, you know, he'll go beyond

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Speaker 2: that point. And then it turned you know, ugly, and

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Speaker 2: mostly it would turn ugly for my mother, and I

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Speaker 2: remember not being able to reconcile the two, like just

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Speaker 2: being is my dad a bad guy or a good guy?

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Speaker 2: Because I was experiencing him so much as a good guy,

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Speaker 2: and then I see him argue with my mother, or

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Speaker 2: I see him drunken then pass out, and you know,

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Speaker 2: not have his you know, his his wist, a bottom

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Speaker 2: or whatever. But but he was such a constant presence

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Speaker 2: even even through all of it, which is so strange

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Speaker 2: because you think of alcoholism, and you think of alcohol abuse,

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Speaker 2: and you think about homes that seem or feel broken,

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Speaker 2: and it's easy to put that parent in a box

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Speaker 2: and you know which one is the bad one and

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Speaker 2: which one is a good one, and which one to

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Speaker 2: take care of you. And I don't have that of him.

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Speaker 2: And I should also note today that we are sitting

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Speaker 2: down and speaking is my dad's birthday. He passed away

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Speaker 2: the year after I ran for governor, a few months

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Speaker 2: after the race for governor was over. And I remember

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Speaker 2: feeling like like not the good child because I didn't

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Speaker 2: know he was sick. He didn't share it. It was

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Speaker 2: such a shock, you know, such a surprise. You know,

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Speaker 2: the next time I see him was at a hospital.

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Speaker 2: He's not speaking and you know a few days later,

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Speaker 2: you know Dad's gone. But it is also very much

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Speaker 2: so him. He didn't tell his problems to anybody. He

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Speaker 2: didn't lean on anybody. He didn't want to be a

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Speaker 2: burden to anybody. If something was wrong, he just held it.

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Speaker 2: He just kept it. So I'm thinking about my dad

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Speaker 2: being deployed by the campaign, going to these neighborhoods, going

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Speaker 2: back to Miami, like just doing what he could for

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Speaker 2: his son while in pain and not sharing it. And

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Speaker 2: you know some you know, guilt around that, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: of course, of course. But I think part of what

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Speaker 2: makes the job of a black father's particularly challenging is

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Speaker 2: is not only do you have filling the role right,

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Speaker 2: you got to show up. You're often the provider. Right.

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Speaker 2: People who even grow with Dad's in the home, as

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Speaker 2: you referenced, Angela, you know, they may be in the home,

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Speaker 2: but they're also working this. You know, the society gives

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Speaker 2: them a burden that they have to cure. So he

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Speaker 2: did those things. But I think as I reflect on him,

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Speaker 2: I'm so blessed for the nuggets. You know, he would

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Speaker 2: tell every one of my others Blin's watch out for

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Speaker 2: this one. Because God knows he don't have it in

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Speaker 2: common sense. You know, he thought I was. He thought

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Speaker 2: I was a kid that everybody was gonna get overall

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Speaker 2: because I saw innocence, yeah, sense and everything. And Dad

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Speaker 2: is like, nah son, you know, so he's telling my

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Speaker 2: little baby sister, watch out for your brother.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not the way that's supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: She's the lawyer's circle of everybody and everything. Yeah, all right, y'all,

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Speaker 2: we're going to take a quick break, but we'll be

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Speaker 2: right back. I think about the role that we have

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Speaker 2: to play. And then later on top of that, what

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Speaker 2: society then says you are? Yeah, in every single way,

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Speaker 2: shape and form. And I just wonder, particularly for you, Angela,

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Speaker 2: because you do sit an interesting intersection with Hollywood film production,

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Speaker 2: the portrayal of figures, and our community is like, is

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Speaker 2: it that saleable to tell the story repeatedly of an

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Speaker 2: absentee dad who ain't about chit versus a more complete

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Speaker 2: and accomplished story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: You know, I.

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Speaker 3: Have a unique I think bias here, and I think

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Speaker 3: part of it is I really do believe that a

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Speaker 3: lot of people make film, right, screenplays and all of

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Speaker 3: that based on their own experiences. Yeah, like people pile

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Speaker 3: I feel like often on Tyler Perry and I don't

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Speaker 3: really see it in the same way. He has been

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Speaker 3: relentless about speaking his truth about his experience growing up

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Speaker 3: around his mom when he went into the shop with her,

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Speaker 3: like he talks about his own experience, and so you

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Speaker 3: can get mad at it, but really, what is the

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Speaker 3: societal condition that is there for us to address? I

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Speaker 3: do think we could spend a lot more time highlighting

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Speaker 3: not just the black father, but also black families and

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Speaker 3: the ways, especially now that people come together alternative to

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Speaker 3: create loving environments. I think one of the dopest things

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Speaker 3: about the black community historically has been our village, you know,

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Speaker 3: the mentality that it takes a village to raise a child.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes your aunties and your cousins and all that

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Speaker 3: ain't blood related. But we were there because as a

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Speaker 3: protection mechanism, and that is deep love that has virtually

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Speaker 3: been destroyed now by this is not the point of

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Speaker 3: this particular podcast, but like by gentrification and housing affordability

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Speaker 3: and access and all that, some of those things have

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Speaker 3: been broken down and it has been very detrimental to

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Speaker 3: I think these kids, you know, So I think that

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Speaker 3: where fathers had to work. You know, Auntie so and

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Speaker 3: so came in and took over this grandmar or this

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Speaker 3: nana came in. And I think that some of those

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Speaker 3: things should be celebrated more than what the father didn't do,

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Speaker 3: the fact that this kid ended up our right, is

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Speaker 3: a testament to how incredibly dope and versatile and innovative

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Speaker 3: the black community is.

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Speaker 1: I think we should do a minipod on Tyler Perry

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Speaker 1: or maybe something like how Black art and like storytellers.

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Speaker 1: But I just want to offer this, and I did

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Speaker 1: not plan this for this particular episode, but I just

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Speaker 1: wrote something on black fathers, and so I had to

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Speaker 1: do research on it. And seventy percent of black fathers

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Speaker 1: who lived with their children were more likely most likely

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Speaker 1: to have bathe dress changed, or help their baby's potty

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Speaker 1: every day. So even this narrative of black fathers aren't there,

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Speaker 1: it's not true. The data doesn't support it. And that

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Speaker 1: was according to the CDC, the Center for Disease Control.

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Speaker 1: The data showed that that was even more than white fathers.

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Speaker 1: They were at sixty percent, Latino fathers were at forty

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Speaker 1: five percent. Those same black fathers were also more likely

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Speaker 1: to have eaten a meal with their children. And the

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Speaker 1: numbers are high, not just for biological fathers living in

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Speaker 1: the home, but also for black fathers stepping into the

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Speaker 1: role of a step parent. And it shows that black

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Speaker 1: fathers maintained consistent involvement with their children even when outside

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Speaker 1: the home. I hate to say this, I may lose

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Speaker 1: a man corner here too in the audience, but I

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Speaker 1: have to say President Obama was also somebody who perpetuated

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Speaker 1: a narrative of this absent black father that was not true.

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Speaker 1: He represented a black father who was present, but in

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Speaker 1: his remarks he would make these comments and it's like,

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Speaker 1: what are you basing that on. That's not true. His

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Speaker 1: black father was not present, and so to your point,

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Speaker 1: maybe he was talking about his own experience, but then

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Speaker 1: would carry that message in as the president. When you're speaking,

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Speaker 1: you're not speaking to your father, You're speaking to the everybody.

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Speaker 1: And so the world would hear you lecture on some

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Speaker 1: level black fathers, and it just it wasn't warranted. It's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: these kids go to sidwell with your kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: like these kids' fathers are doing the same thing you're doing.

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Speaker 2: He could have also been a victim of what society

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Speaker 2: re emphasizes about who we are and how we show.

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Speaker 1: Up who they expected him to be. So he wanted

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Speaker 1: to say, no, I'm on some level, I'm one of

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Speaker 1: the good ones.

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Speaker 3: Look at me, and.

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Speaker 2: You hear another expression, well.

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Speaker 1: Very honest about how things worked in their home and

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Speaker 1: and being challenged for a good decade in their marriageability.

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Speaker 2: And I get that too, right, because he has he

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Speaker 2: had expectations put on him of how he was supposed

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Speaker 2: to perform. I always find it interesting when people think

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Speaker 2: of dads as like disassociated emotionally from you know, their kids.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know black dads who did skin the

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Speaker 2: skin immediately after the mother, did skin to skin contact

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Speaker 2: with the baby after the baby was born. Who were

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Speaker 2: the ones who got I did? Of course, yeah, all three.

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Speaker 4: For sure.

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Speaker 1: You do it with both the twins and.

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Speaker 2: Broad chests premature and there you know they're they're there everything.

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Speaker 2: I take great pride in the role I'm able to

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Speaker 2: play with my kids today. And it wasn't always that way.

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Speaker 2: I think about, you know, when I was still very

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Speaker 2: heavily entrenched in politics, and there were others in addition

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Speaker 2: into RJ. But my mother, my mother in law, you know,

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Speaker 2: sitters who would have to take on more of those

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Speaker 2: present roles. And I think I remember reflecting, like after

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Speaker 2: I lost the race, I kept thinking like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: all these years that I can never get back. I

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Speaker 2: gave to this thing and I'll never and and and

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Speaker 2: it's okay. And I'm okay with it now because there

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Speaker 2: are new moments that we're able to create. I love

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Speaker 2: being emotionally in tune with them. I want my kids,

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Speaker 2: you know, to talk to me. I want my third

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Speaker 2: one to talk less because he just tells all. But

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Speaker 2: we show up and we grieve and we have, you know,

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Speaker 2: just deep hopes. And I think some of what I've

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Speaker 2: always tried to figure out, like my dad would always

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Speaker 2: couch a good moment with like you know, the shoes

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Speaker 2: can drop, the shoes gonna drop tomorrow. Like he would

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Speaker 2: never let you get too high on the on the

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Speaker 2: upswing because he was trying to prepare me for the

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Speaker 2: disappointing moments and days. And I know a lot of

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Speaker 2: dads who that you like, you want to tell your

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Speaker 2: kid there's something around the band, like be happy about

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Speaker 2: this thing, be okay. But they didn't let us go

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Speaker 2: overboard because they knew that there was a much crueler

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Speaker 2: and tougher society out there, conditions that they could not control.

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Speaker 2: That they didn't want us to be thrown completely off

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Speaker 2: and just set back on our heels. They're trying to

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Speaker 2: prepare us. And I struggle now with a different preparation

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Speaker 2: from my children, because I don't want them to, you know,

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Speaker 2: to think that everything's funky dory in the world and

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Speaker 2: everybody wishes them well and and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But also I don't want them having, you know, everything,

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Speaker 2: seeing everything through.

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Speaker 1: It's a unique burden that black fathers have be It's

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Speaker 1: it's like your mind. And I think this is unique

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Speaker 1: to black children. They come in the world as ours

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Speaker 1: in terms of the communities. If you see any black

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Speaker 1: child anywhere, you feel responsible.

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Speaker 2: Too close to the you know whatever that is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't remember for you all the way

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Speaker 1: through you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, swinging thing up there coming when it.

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Speaker 3: Comes, she's my dad would say, she alive.

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Speaker 1: These children, I think because of the trauma of the plantation,

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Speaker 1: that they could be beaten or taken away from you,

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Speaker 1: or meet looked as an adult at a certain point

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Speaker 1: when they were far too young that you do feel

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Speaker 1: this traumatic protection for black children and you feel licensed

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Speaker 1: to intervene. So if you see a father walking with

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Speaker 1: his kids and you don't know this man from Adam,

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of black women take license,

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Speaker 1: like those are my children, to say something if I

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Speaker 1: want to, And you can say to this father that

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Speaker 1: baby need a jacket on, need a hat on his head.

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Speaker 1: And black men seem to understand this. You know, it

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Speaker 1: might be frustrating and annoying, but it's like this is

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Speaker 1: this is how it works at the playground. My friends

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Speaker 1: who have kids, one of my close friends, he has

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Speaker 1: three kids. I went to the playground with him and

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Speaker 1: it's a smortgage board of kids there, but the black kids,

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Speaker 1: all the black parents responsible for the black kids. They

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Speaker 1: didn't say anything to the white kids because you.

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Speaker 2: Ever, you never know.

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Speaker 1: But if you're in my community, I know it's like, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I told him to get down.

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Speaker 2: You.

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Speaker 1: Know, like, yes, this is a collective raising of our right.

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Speaker 1: But can I just say this too, really quickly about

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Speaker 1: your dad, Andrew, I hear you about like being in pain.

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Speaker 1: I think that is quintessential black men. Uh my father,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know. He ended up passing away from serrosis

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Speaker 1: to the liver. My grandfather was like that something about

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Speaker 1: black man where it's like we don't we well of

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Speaker 1: our generation and before where you don't get to wear

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Speaker 1: your feelings. And also I would bet I didn't know

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Speaker 1: your dad, but I know your dad, and I would

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Speaker 1: bet he would not change any amount of time he spent.

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Speaker 1: No way was he gonna be at home feeling pain.

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Speaker 1: I gotta go hit this payment. That's what I know

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Speaker 1: how to do. And it's my boy. You know, my

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Speaker 1: boy is running for governor. I'm gonna go out and

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Speaker 1: do this because this makes me not think about the pain.

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Speaker 1: It not makes me think about my illness. You know.

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Speaker 3: He was so yes, So I want you to like

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Speaker 3: you're talking about guilt like Andre, he was doing what

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Speaker 3: he is.

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Speaker 1: Proud.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll tell you. I know there are more

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Speaker 2: proud ones out there just like him, where we were

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Speaker 2: running short on time. But I just I hope that

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Speaker 2: on this Father's Day that we do collectively, individually and

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Speaker 2: everywhere we can celebrate, lift up, compliment, share and experience

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Speaker 2: that alters other people's narrative about what they think we

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Speaker 2: are and how we show up, not necessarily just for them,

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Speaker 2: but for us. It pains me when I see impressions

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Speaker 2: of black men as fathers that are wayward and don't

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Speaker 2: reflect the men that I know. And so this isn't

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Speaker 2: too this isn't about scripting to other people so that

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Speaker 2: they understand and appreciate us. It's a script to ourselves,

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Speaker 2: a reminder to ourselves the ways in which we are

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Speaker 2: pretty incredible beings despite what they want us to believe

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Speaker 2: about us. I want to think.

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Speaker 1: You you can. We just say real quickly to our

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Speaker 1: resident father, you are a wonderful black dad. Angela has

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Speaker 1: spent a lot more time with Andrew and the kids.

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Speaker 1: We went to brunch a couple of weeks ago. And Andrew,

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Speaker 1: I mean three kids, you don't get to enjoy anything.

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Speaker 1: Andrew would be ready to go put a school of

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Speaker 1: ice cream, and it was like they would descend and

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Speaker 1: the ice cream was gone. Everything I'm getting my own pants.

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Speaker 1: They would descend and his pancakes are gone. They were

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Speaker 1: just like devouring everything.

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Speaker 2: You have to go into the poetry. If I want

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Speaker 2: something for myself, I have to go into the pantry,

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Speaker 2: sit down and put my foot up against.

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Speaker 4: The whatever you I love them, and they're hanging off

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Speaker 4: you there, Damon said, he wrapped around even when you couldn't.

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Speaker 1: You were being choked, And I mean if you're standing

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Speaker 1: up one hanging off your arm. But those kids adore

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Speaker 1: it is a beautiful thing to see your kids the

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Speaker 1: way they love you, and to hear you tell your story.

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Speaker 1: And I think what stories might your children tell about

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Speaker 1: you one day? And I have no doubt they will

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Speaker 1: all be joyful and so happy Father's.

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Speaker 2: Day out there to all of you, and welcome home,

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Speaker 2: Welcome home.

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Speaker 1: All right, thanks for listening to you, guys. Please please

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Speaker 1: please remember to rate, review, subscribe, and tune into our

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Speaker 1: regular episode on Thursdays. Welcome home, y'all. Native Land Pod

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Speaker 1: is the production of iHeartRadio and partnership with Recent Choice Media.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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