Speaker 1: Well, hi everybody, and welcome to their Nice Stubs Tennis podcast.
Speaker 1: We are in the thick of hardcourt season, Caitlin.
Speaker 2: It's been an exciting few weeks, and I mean a
Speaker 2: few weeks.
Speaker 1: Because I feel like, don't you feel like the US
Speaker 1: swing has already it's already feels too long in some respects.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's weird.
Speaker 3: Right, I think it's weird because there are so many
Speaker 3: hard court swings in the tennis season. If you think
Speaker 3: about it, there's one that starts really at the end
Speaker 3: of December where people go to the Middle East, some
Speaker 3: of them go all the way down to OZ and
Speaker 3: New Zealand. Then we have the Middle East, Australasia part
Speaker 3: of things. Hong Kong has a tournament. There's a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of stuff that's happening on hard courts at the
Speaker 3: end of slash beginning of the year. Then obviously we
Speaker 3: go to clay, then we go to grass, then we
Speaker 3: come back and it's just sort of a if you
Speaker 3: count the Miami Indian Well Sunshine Double, it's a really
Speaker 3: interesting bookend Asia's hard courts and everything that happens up
Speaker 3: until basically June or May and June and July are
Speaker 3: hard courts. So yeah, for me, it is a prevailing
Speaker 3: theme because I have a feeling we're going to touch
Speaker 3: on it, which is the season is too long, just
Speaker 3: full stop. The season is too long, and we are
Speaker 3: never more aware of it than in recent years as
Speaker 3: the game has become the most physical it possibly can be,
Speaker 3: as climate change has made some of the conditions that
Speaker 3: we're seeing right now in Cincinnati, for example, with rainouts
Speaker 3: and just length of time that these tournaments have to
Speaker 3: get extended. We're going to start by talking about Canada,
Speaker 3: which was also affected by a lot of the rain.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's just that the season is too long,
Speaker 3: and obviously it's something that we structurally keep coming back
Speaker 3: to because it isn't changing. It seems to me that
Speaker 3: if I'm in charge of tennis, which nobody really is,
Speaker 3: but everybody really is, so many people which will never
Speaker 3: be sadly, which if Tennis knows it's good for it,
Speaker 3: it'll put me in charge. It's an ever present problem,
Speaker 3: and I think right now we are seeing all of
Speaker 3: the effects of it, which is it's three quarters the
Speaker 3: way through this season. Everyone's dead, bloodied, buried, injured or
Speaker 3: otherwise hobbling, if not mentally vacant. And it's too bad
Speaker 3: because we have amazing tournaments, amazing players, and amazing stuff
Speaker 3: still left on the calendar, not least which is the
Speaker 3: fourth and final Grand Slam of the year. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it's the season's too long. The hard court season is
Speaker 3: too long. Everything's too long. And what suffers is the product,
Speaker 3: which is on behalf of the players the best it's
Speaker 3: ever been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say the product suffers, but more importantly,
Speaker 1: the players are suffering. And so one of the things
Speaker 1: that I wanted to touch on because we hadn't obviously
Speaker 1: because the whole tournament schedule is so out of whack
Speaker 1: with these ten days, nine day events, is that I
Speaker 1: was thinking to myself when egershyon Tech and Ribarkina played
Speaker 1: in the final, I was thinking, hold on a second,
Speaker 1: you guys had ten days right to finish this event,
Speaker 1: and yet, and yet a player plays a semi final
Speaker 1: and finishes at one o'clock in the morning and then
Speaker 1: has to come back the next day and play at
Speaker 1: six pm. I do not understand how a sport can
Speaker 1: make one person suffer a lot more than the other.
Speaker 2: And it's supposed to be equal. That is not fair.
Speaker 1: That is not fair, whether it was Rebarkina or whether
Speaker 1: it was Eagerson Tech that won that second semifinal. Why
Speaker 1: are you starting at seven pm plus when you have
Speaker 1: all fucking day.
Speaker 2: To play a tennis match?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: Do you want to play, you know, in the evening
Speaker 1: because people can come after work or it's an little
Speaker 1: bit nicer of experience and all that sort of. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: but is Canada going to sell out in the day?
Speaker 1: Hell ya, Canada will sell out in the day. And
Speaker 1: if you're supposed to be playing on Saturday or Sunday
Speaker 1: for a semi and a final, which is traditionally what
Speaker 1: we do in tennis, why the fuck are we playing
Speaker 1: matches now?
Speaker 2: Granted it was pushed back an hour ish because of.
Speaker 1: Rain, but you have to also remember, when you're doing
Speaker 1: a schedule in summer in the United States or in Canada,
Speaker 1: you are going to get afternoon rain more than likely,
Speaker 1: or you're going to get a whole entire day of rain,
Speaker 1: which we did in Washington. We had to finish on Monday,
Speaker 1: so it's like you've got ten days to finish an event,
Speaker 1: but yet you crammed in two matches in this less
Speaker 1: than twenty four hours and somebody suffered. Now, Igerschiontek played
Speaker 1: incredible tennis, and I don't want to take anything away
Speaker 1: from her.
Speaker 2: It's so great to see her back at her best.
Speaker 1: It is so great to see how she played against
Speaker 1: Rebuking in that final. But was Rebukkina at her very
Speaker 1: best in that final? I would argue, no, now why
Speaker 1: was shouldn't you? Oh, I don't know. She went to
Speaker 1: bed at like I would guarantee you Caitlin finishing a
Speaker 1: match at one pm, which is when she finished, she
Speaker 1: shook hands at approximately one am. She did not go
Speaker 1: to bed, like I'm talking, sleep until three thirty four
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. And you expect that girl to
Speaker 1: get up when when is she what's the circadian rhythm
Speaker 1: of her sleep?
Speaker 2: Now, what's the rhythm of her practice? How does she feel?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And I mean okay, Eger probably finished and went to
Speaker 1: bed around midnight, maybe, which is still not ideal for
Speaker 1: a tennis player to wake up and play a match
Speaker 1: the next day at six pm. But I'll take that
Speaker 1: over four in the morning going to sleep. I guarantee
Speaker 1: you that's when she fell asleep. If even then, that
Speaker 1: is just okay.
Speaker 3: Brought up the circadian rhythms like a real science nerd.
Speaker 3: I love it, and you're absolutely right, it's not okay.
Speaker 3: And it's also so clearly problematic and unevenly distributed.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It's punishing people when it should be rewarding them. And
Speaker 3: I think one of the things about these two week
Speaker 3: Masters one thousands that the ATP, who seemed to have
Speaker 3: spear petted the creation or the extension of these tournaments,
Speaker 3: were so clear in articulating when it was announced is
Speaker 3: that it was going to give players more rest and
Speaker 3: they would be they would be less taxed on their
Speaker 3: body because during the tournament they would have more time
Speaker 3: off between matches and a less brutal schedule. And once
Speaker 3: again that has been proven false.
Speaker 1: Yes, and for those listeners out there, yes, that was
Speaker 1: meet laughing out loud at the fact that that's how
Speaker 1: they think of this. I mean, I start to wonder
Speaker 1: and think that people that put the events on, people
Speaker 1: that run the tournaments, people that run the WTAAP have
Speaker 1: no idea what it takes.
Speaker 2: To be a professional tennis player at their best, which.
Speaker 3: Is ironic because I feel like, at least on the
Speaker 3: ATP side. There are a number of former players who
Speaker 3: make up the leadership of these governing bodies, and so
Speaker 3: you'd think that they would relate to the player's anguish
Speaker 3: that they are being put through. But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe that's not true. At the WTA,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do they sit with the tournaments and think, Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: this is how we're going to do it. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have this long arduous, laid out tournament. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: players have days off, and then when it gets to
Speaker 1: the semi finals and finals day, we don't give a
Speaker 1: fuck about resting the players or giving or having them
Speaker 1: be at their best. You know, when I saw this
Speaker 1: happen and then the rain pushed it back, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's bad, But.
Speaker 2: I would have been bad anyway. She would have finished
Speaker 2: at midnight. Is that any better?
Speaker 1: And then she would have gone to sleep at like
Speaker 1: two o'clock in the morning, you know, or two thirty
Speaker 1: in the morning.
Speaker 2: Is that ideal?
Speaker 3: So what's the solution here?
Speaker 2: Start the fucking match in the day.
Speaker 1: Start the match in the day, let them finish at
Speaker 1: six pm and have an entire nice evening of dinner.
Speaker 1: This is what I'm talking about, the circadian rhythm of
Speaker 1: like somebody, right, I bet Ribackina when she woke up
Speaker 1: or whenever she woke up, felt sick. And for those
Speaker 1: of you listening out there, I'm sure plenty of you
Speaker 1: have gone and traveled and and had jet lag. I
Speaker 1: bet you she felt like she had jet lag when
Speaker 1: she walked on that court, yes, you know, And she
Speaker 1: walked on the court in the daytime, so the sun
Speaker 1: is out just probably like her brain is.
Speaker 2: Probably like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: And keep in mind, guys, she's not just walking on
Speaker 1: the court to play a final at six pm or
Speaker 1: whenever it was. She's practicing at probably three point thirty
Speaker 1: or four. So think about going to bed at four
Speaker 1: in the morning, like falling asleep at four in the morning,
Speaker 1: getting up at whatever ten or eleven am, which is
Speaker 1: not normal, and then going and trying like drag yourself
Speaker 1: to go on practice and then get yourself up for
Speaker 1: the match. And if you watch the match, there were
Speaker 1: so many like quite easy balls that she missed, and
Speaker 1: she struggled through the week, but she found a way
Speaker 1: every single match. She found away. Rebeckin Ha found a
Speaker 1: way through every single match against Coco. She lost a
Speaker 1: lot of first sets. She won in three sets. There
Speaker 1: is no way playing Eager Schirantech at her best, which
Speaker 1: she was, she had a chance and the score line
Speaker 1: proves it.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: If she had lost six the third I would have
Speaker 1: been like, man, kudos and what a great match. But
Speaker 1: if you look at the score line and you look
Speaker 1: at the amount of times Rabakina has beaten Egistian Tech,
Speaker 1: particularly on hardcore, you just go, huh, what was off?
Speaker 1: And again, I do not want to take away from
Speaker 1: Ega because she played fabulous tennis, but you have to think,
Speaker 1: how can that or not affect her.
Speaker 3: Let's back up. The last time we spoke, Coco Goff
Speaker 3: was still in the draw, Benchech was still in the dra,
Speaker 3: Osaka was still in the draw, Spindelina was still in
Speaker 3: the dra. And what we had between the time we
Speaker 3: last spoke and this finals that you were returning to
Speaker 3: were a lot of very good matches and in fact
Speaker 3: very good. The player field in my view in Toronto
Speaker 3: got the two best players of the tournament. Rbakna came
Speaker 3: into that having beaten, as you noted, Coco Goff over
Speaker 3: a masterful three set performance. The round before, she had
Speaker 3: beaten a very inform, dangerous Naomi Osaka, another master performance,
Speaker 3: and Egostiantec played to me what was probably the match
Speaker 3: of the tournament in the semifinals to beat Alnas Fidelina
Speaker 3: with a absolute conviction in a third set after kind
Speaker 3: of getting blanked in the second. Obviously she got a game,
Speaker 3: but she was the recipient of a breadstick in the
Speaker 3: second set. Elenas Fidelina played phenomenal tennis and Niga did
Speaker 3: incredible depth digging to find a way to win that match.
Speaker 3: So to me, I was really looking forward to this
Speaker 3: final because I felt looking at the matches that had
Speaker 3: led up to it, how resilient both Rebacchina and schfian
Speaker 3: Tech had been in getting to the final, how great
Speaker 3: the matchups were, and how really women's tennis really proved
Speaker 3: itself again as just being an embarrassment of riches. There
Speaker 3: were so many good players left in this draw. There
Speaker 3: were so many good matches leading into the final, and frankly,
Speaker 3: I think we really deserved a good final. Egos Fiantec
Speaker 3: deserved to win the turn. As you're saying, no doubt
Speaker 3: she played phenomenal. She is back. I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 3: She's playing the kind of tennis that we saw from her. Honestly,
Speaker 3: it's been a couple of years that we've seen her
Speaker 3: play this confidently in this decisively that said, we deserved
Speaker 3: a better final and rebarkiing it deserved a better schedule,
Speaker 3: so she could have put up a better fight even
Speaker 3: if you go would have won anyway. To me, that
Speaker 3: was the story of Toronto, which is the tournament itself
Speaker 3: was great, the last match was not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, have the semifinals in the daytime and
Speaker 1: allow the both players to have enough rest time to
Speaker 1: play at night.
Speaker 2: In the of you play at night, then you have
Speaker 2: the Marqui match.
Speaker 1: You know certain hours of the evening that it's best
Speaker 1: for everybody, TV, whatever it is, spectators players, But play
Speaker 1: the semi finals in the daytime and allow them to
Speaker 1: get the rest they need to play their best and
Speaker 1: most important match of the week and they deserve that.
Speaker 1: And to finish a match at one am in the morning,
Speaker 1: and don't tell me about the rain. They would have
Speaker 1: finished at midnight and she would not have gone again
Speaker 1: to bed until at sleep at least two thirty in
Speaker 1: the morning.
Speaker 2: So I just it just.
Speaker 1: Bothers me to the nth degree that we are still
Speaker 1: continually fucking the players over with schedule. It's not okay,
Speaker 1: and I will ten I'm ten ties down on this.
Speaker 3: I don't blame you. Let's briefly talk about the men's
Speaker 3: because even though we got a better quality final, and
Speaker 3: I was there for the Semis and I saw some
Speaker 3: great tennis. Shout out Brandon Nakashima for really really making
Speaker 3: a statement with his win in the Semis over Raphael Hodar,
Speaker 3: who I think a lot of people myself included thought
Speaker 3: would certainly get to the finals, if not win the tournament.
Speaker 3: And you know, honestly, it was great to be in Montreal.
Speaker 3: I talked about how excited I was about that project.
Speaker 3: The tournament is great. I really love going to these
Speaker 3: Masters one thousands tournaments because I think they're awesome, especially
Speaker 3: now in a world where the Slams have just become
Speaker 3: insanely expensive, insanely overcrowded, and all the best players are
Speaker 3: at all of the other tournaments. So maybe spread the
Speaker 3: love a little bit. But it was strange because during
Speaker 3: the there was nothing going on, and then they saved
Speaker 3: the matches for the evening session and I just think
Speaker 3: in a city like Toronto or a city like Montreal,
Speaker 3: where you have tons and tons of people, even if
Speaker 3: it's on a weekday, because the ATP and WTA Masters
Speaker 3: one thousands extended schedule means that it's not a weekend final,
Speaker 3: which is stupid. On a weekday you get a ton
Speaker 3: of people on the grounds just watching tennis. Why wait
Speaker 3: to the evening. It was very strange to me to
Speaker 3: not show up to site until four or five pm
Speaker 3: to watch doubles and then have the two night sessions
Speaker 3: be the men's semis. I didn't see the need for it.
Speaker 3: It should have been during the day. You sell more merch,
Speaker 3: you get more people excited about it. And I don't
Speaker 3: think attendant suffers, not in a semi, not in a
Speaker 3: later stage of a tournament. I happy to talk about
Speaker 3: the tennis, but I think to continue your point about
Speaker 3: the scheduling, it's baffling to me and I don't understand why.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's why sammis and finals and tournaments
Speaker 1: have always finished on the weekend, because you play them
Speaker 1: in the day because people aren't at work. Right, So
Speaker 1: if that's the case and it's a weekend, you play
Speaker 1: them in the day and then you can play the
Speaker 1: final maybe at night. But also keep in mind that
Speaker 1: people have to get to another tournament right away after
Speaker 1: that as well, so you're not considering them in certain
Speaker 1: circumstances with that as well. But you know, you're making
Speaker 1: my point again for me, Now, the guys started on
Speaker 1: time at six pm, I think that's when they started
Speaker 1: their match, and then the next day the final was
Speaker 1: at five thirty pm, right, So now they got lucky
Speaker 1: because you know, the Nakashima Joda match was fantastic, you know,
Speaker 1: thankfully Ben Shelton won in straight sets and won quite
Speaker 1: comfortably against Learna TM and so he had enough time
Speaker 1: to recover for the match the next day at five
Speaker 1: point thirty because he finished it.
Speaker 2: I can't I.
Speaker 1: Don't remember, maybe ten pm, but still that's still not
Speaker 1: okay for me. But ten pm difference to one am,
Speaker 1: And it was only because if those two matches had
Speaker 1: gone very very long, like both the women's semi finals
Speaker 1: did in Canada, then you're going up against the same problem.
Speaker 1: They would have finished at one o'clock in the morning
Speaker 1: to you have a little bit of rain, which is
Speaker 1: very very possible in Canada. At that time of the year,
Speaker 1: the guys would have faced the same problem. So it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't care who's running the sport at this time,
Speaker 1: but somebody has to have some kind of semblance of
Speaker 1: sensibility that the players are suffering. And also Kitlyn, you know,
Speaker 1: this is when injuries do happen, right, So you think
Speaker 1: about Rebukina going out there not feeling great, and or
Speaker 1: Ben Shelton, who you know, I mean ran into the
Speaker 1: back wall. I mean, first of all, why is there
Speaker 1: a mat on the back of the court. That's a
Speaker 1: whole different story that I tweeted about when I was
Speaker 1: watching the match. I mean, he was so unbelievably close
Speaker 1: to having a catastrophic injury there. He could have twisted
Speaker 1: his ankle horribly. He could have banged his head on
Speaker 1: that LED screen, which people that don't know, those LED
Speaker 1: screens are really really rough, So when you put your
Speaker 1: hand on them, they're like little baby lights essentially, and
Speaker 1: so when you actually touch it, which is why his
Speaker 1: arm was all scratched up and his hand was all
Speaker 1: beat up, it's like, Okay, you're not going to necessarily
Speaker 1: change that because LED screens are beautiful on a tennis court,
Speaker 1: and I get it, but why do you have a
Speaker 1: mat at the back of the court. And I did
Speaker 1: put that question out on Twitter and one of my
Speaker 1: producers that I worked with for many, many years, Bobby
Speaker 1: Bobby text and he said, well, maybe it's to hide
Speaker 1: the cables and and I said, well, is there any
Speaker 1: way to do that without a piece of mat And
Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, you just tape it down underneath the
Speaker 1: led screens. So even little things like that, Caitlyn, Like,
Speaker 1: if I saw that as a tournament director, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: why do we have carpet here? This is dangerous for
Speaker 1: the place if they happen to come back. And these
Speaker 1: guys are all and the women they're so good defensively,
Speaker 1: they will run a ball down. Why are you putting
Speaker 1: anything on there that they can trip over?
Speaker 2: I mean, we saw it at the French Open.
Speaker 1: We saw people get very, very hurt with those boxes
Speaker 1: they used to have.
Speaker 2: Around the lines.
Speaker 1: People and it's just like, whoever's running this sport, I
Speaker 1: just wonder, have you ever fucking played tennis that?
Speaker 2: I mean, he could have really hurt himself.
Speaker 1: And guess what he couldn't have played the next day
Speaker 1: in the finals is that what you want, you want
Speaker 1: to hurt player. So ah, there's so many I was
Speaker 1: so annoyed with certain things last week, with what happened.
Speaker 1: And you know it is our job, Caitlin, you and
Speaker 1: me to make sure that they get it right, because
Speaker 1: we are the commissioners that no one's paying.
Speaker 3: Exactly, I was gonna say, is it a job to
Speaker 3: make sure they get it right? Is there a job
Speaker 3: to complain about it? But I'd love for it to
Speaker 3: be a job to get it rape because clearly the
Speaker 3: people who are in Churche aren't doing a good job anyway.
Speaker 1: But Ben played amazing. I mean, I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is in the North.
Speaker 3: Is this a Canada thing? Like he's just ready to
Speaker 3: roll in Canada?
Speaker 2: It definitely is. And I've said this many times on
Speaker 2: the pod.
Speaker 1: Players feel really comfortable at certain places, which why everyone's panicking,
Speaker 1: and rightly so panicking with Saberlenca. She is not playing
Speaker 1: well right now, she has lost her confidence. But you
Speaker 1: know she might slide into the US Open and go
Speaker 1: or Cincinnati, where she's had great success and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm okay. And it is this game is so mental.
Speaker 1: It is so mental, and yes, it is how you're
Speaker 1: hitting the ball and all that sort of stuff. But
Speaker 1: if you can have a calmness about you, and we
Speaker 1: saw that with Eager last week. Her calmness on the
Speaker 1: court was so much more obvious. And is it because
Speaker 1: she's winning, of course, but you know, when she's under
Speaker 1: the pressure like she was against Fitzelina in the semis,
Speaker 1: and even there was periods in the final where it
Speaker 1: could have gotten a little tricky, she just stayed really calm.
Speaker 1: And I'm loving the fact that she's finally hitting her
Speaker 1: heavy forehand again, like with the height and particularly the
Speaker 1: forehand up the line with like you know, she like
Speaker 1: went away from that and I don't know, and it
Speaker 1: must feel really good for her to have had the
Speaker 1: guts to like get you know, to leave winfa set
Speaker 1: and get be done with that experiment and move on
Speaker 1: to somebody else in a new voice. And she has
Speaker 1: clearly excelled quickly since since sort of breaking that partnership up.
Speaker 2: And so it's a lesson for a lot of players
Speaker 2: out there. Just because someone has.
Speaker 1: A big name in quote unquote coaching, it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: the person for you, And you have to always be
Speaker 1: willing to pull the ripcord when it doesn't feel right,
Speaker 1: and that's what she did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I share your I share your enthusiasm for that.
Speaker 3: And I feel like she's dictating points with that really
Speaker 3: aggressive stance and looking to move forward and not playing.
Speaker 3: She looked, you know, I think for stretches at a time,
Speaker 3: kind of lost out there. She looked strategically confused. And
Speaker 3: I think a lot of that isn't fitness or skill, certainly,
Speaker 3: and it's it's coaching probably, And I think a lot
Speaker 3: of it is belief. She has belief again, And what
Speaker 3: a difference does it make because it is really fun
Speaker 3: to watch her. Now, I do have a question for you,
Speaker 3: and it's a little bit controversial, but I feel like
Speaker 3: we can handle it because we're both grown people now.
Speaker 3: In her victory speech, she called out the.
Speaker 2: Hater I was getting there. I was getting there.
Speaker 3: In a victory speech, she called out the haters. And
Speaker 3: I want to be specific in what she said, because
Speaker 3: there was some speculation on the internet that she was
Speaker 3: talking about us. I would not kind of characterize us
Speaker 3: as now or wasn't what. I would characterize us as
Speaker 3: people who are willing to call it as we see it,
Speaker 3: which is you know, sometimes these players, as much as
Speaker 3: we like them, need new solutions, they need new teams.
Speaker 3: They need to look at themselves. If they behave badly,
Speaker 3: we're going to say it. I think my understanding of
Speaker 3: how media should call it out is that we're doing
Speaker 3: everybody as service. We're not paid to do this. We
Speaker 3: are calling it like you'd want it to be called,
Speaker 3: in service of a better sport, and in some cases
Speaker 3: that means the players need to get it together. But
Speaker 3: I do think I want to read you the quotes
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of conversation about who she was
Speaker 3: talking about. Igoshiantek wins the match, she wins the tournament,
Speaker 3: and this is an excerpt of what she says. I
Speaker 3: mean so much to me. These past few months were
Speaker 3: not easy. Despite all the opinions meant many people have
Speaker 3: about me every day on the internet. It's not easy
Speaker 3: to deal with that. I'm happy. The reality is different.
Speaker 3: The reality is I have people who support me. I
Speaker 3: want to dedicate this title to anyone who's dealing with
Speaker 3: unfair judgment and hate. Always remember, just keep pushing and
Speaker 3: keep growing, keep focusing on yourself. I always remember what's
Speaker 3: ahead and what might be possible. So those were her
Speaker 3: words upon lifting the trophy. Are we the haters?
Speaker 2: Is it you?
Speaker 1: No, she's not talking about us. I think that I
Speaker 1: think there was some a lot of chatter in Poland.
Speaker 1: You know, if you know, can imagine when you know
Speaker 1: us or you know Andy Roddick or anybody is talking
Speaker 1: about you know, the players. We're going to give an
Speaker 1: honest evaluation of what we see. And I would suspect
Speaker 1: that you and I over the months, you know, I
Speaker 1: have I have said many times that I think that
Speaker 1: she looks lost out there, and that to me felt
Speaker 1: like a lot of stuff that was not being done
Speaker 1: on the practice court. And I will go to my
Speaker 1: grave saying that you don't play a match, you don't
Speaker 1: practice a certain way and then rip onto the tennis
Speaker 1: court and play differently.
Speaker 2: You play how you're practicing, if you're doing.
Speaker 1: The right practice drills, if you're reiterating the right things
Speaker 1: to a player, if you're getting them to understand the
Speaker 1: nuances of how to play a point, that's what you
Speaker 1: do on the practice court. And then when they go
Speaker 1: on the match court, it's all the stuff that they've
Speaker 1: been doing in practice. Nothing comes onto a match court.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, I'm going to try this now. No,
Speaker 1: you do what you've been practicing over and over for
Speaker 1: hours and hours on the practice court.
Speaker 2: So I felt like there was a lot.
Speaker 1: Of things that she was doing on the on the
Speaker 1: on the match court that was clearly being shown up
Speaker 1: because of what she wasn't doing on the on the
Speaker 1: practice court. So you know, I'm going to and tennis
Speaker 1: experts quote unquote again I'm doing that are evaluating what
Speaker 1: they're seeing and so. And also the you know, the
Speaker 1: stress on her face and on her in her body
Speaker 1: is knowing Eager pretty well.
Speaker 2: Is she needs.
Speaker 1: She's kind of like a person that needs everything in place, right.
Speaker 1: And Sam stowso was very similar to that. Who I
Speaker 1: worked with her knew really well like if you practice
Speaker 1: a certain way on the practice court and you do
Speaker 1: drills certain way, she's going to be able to implement
Speaker 1: that on a match court and she's going to be
Speaker 1: real calm about it. And I just felt like she
Speaker 1: was so lost on the match courts that I was like,
Speaker 1: what is she doing on the practice court because it's
Speaker 1: obviously affecting her in matches and then she spirals. She's
Speaker 1: a spiraler, right, she's like everything's going a million miles
Speaker 1: an hour, which sometimes Sam would get that way as well.
Speaker 1: And then there's some players like, for example, I think
Speaker 1: Serena is a really good person for me to talk
Speaker 1: about in this regard is that Serena does very specific
Speaker 1: practice drills as well, very specific target oriented going for
Speaker 1: the cans. You know, she does every single practice session,
Speaker 1: she'll do minimum of five minutes to start the practice
Speaker 1: where she doesn't hit one ball in the net.
Speaker 2: That is her goal.
Speaker 1: Now, Lindsay Davenport used to hit every single practice she
Speaker 1: wanted to hit one foot from the baseline. Every single
Speaker 1: time she had a ball, she wanted to hit one
Speaker 1: foot from the baseline. That was her goal in practice. Now,
Speaker 1: when Serena goes and plays a match, or when Lindsay
Speaker 1: Davenport went and played a match, or you know, whatever,
Speaker 1: whoever you wanted to talk about. Everything they've done in
Speaker 1: the practice court, they can implement on the match court
Speaker 1: and be calm about it because they know they've almost
Speaker 1: they've not mastered it, but they've kind of mastered it
Speaker 1: on the practice court, so their anxiety level is lowered
Speaker 1: because they're doing it so well in the practice court.
Speaker 1: Now you will hear players say I was practicing so
Speaker 1: well and I just didn't implement it on the court,
Speaker 1: and that's nerves and that's circumstances, and maybe you played
Speaker 1: somebody that just simply played better than you. But I
Speaker 1: would say that Eager is implementing the right stuff on
Speaker 1: the practice court, where she's able to go on the
Speaker 1: match court and feel a lot calmer about her abilities
Speaker 1: because her abilities are what I saw last week, haven't
Speaker 1: changed from three years ago. They're just calmer and better
Speaker 1: and it's clear in her head what she needs to do,
Speaker 1: and that's what I s and that makes me really happy,
Speaker 1: because nobody likes to see anyone out they stressed, and
Speaker 1: that's what she looked.
Speaker 3: Like, No, for sure, and I do feel like, you know,
Speaker 3: I've made enemies out of everyone in Poland for saying
Speaker 3: that she's not my favorite player. That has nothing to
Speaker 3: do with the fact that I'm not happy to see
Speaker 3: her winning, happy to see her playing confidently, happy to
Speaker 3: see her executing a game plan. You know, there are
Speaker 3: inexplicably some players whose games speak to you more than others,
Speaker 3: But that doesn't ever mean that I'm rooting against somebody
Speaker 3: getting it together playing confident, calm, composed tennis. And I'm
Speaker 3: really impressed with the way that she's been resilient. I
Speaker 3: think in the last stretch of the year, I would
Speaker 3: say the same thing about you know, Nami Osaka, somebody
Speaker 3: else whose game I don't doesn't speak to me personally,
Speaker 3: but it's exciting to see when players crack codes, figure
Speaker 3: something out, work their way out of a rut. And
Speaker 3: I think women's tennis and tennis in general is better
Speaker 3: when you have more viable, confident, happy, stylistically different players
Speaker 3: bringing their best. And I think when I get angry
Speaker 3: or when I get disappointed, it's because I feel like
Speaker 3: somebody has maybe lost the plot or not given their
Speaker 3: full effort. That was never the case with Ego. You
Speaker 3: see how much she cares about it, and now I'm
Speaker 3: really happy that it's filing into place for her.
Speaker 1: Well, I certainly know that she certainly cares about it,
Speaker 1: and that's for sure. But you know, back to Rebakina,
Speaker 1: who has been a little bit of a question mark
Speaker 1: this year. Hasn't had the year that she and we,
Speaker 1: frankly all expected, particularly after she won the U Strain opener,
Speaker 1: you know, and she ended the year last year really well,
Speaker 1: and she's you know back winning a major title and
Speaker 1: a fantastic win at the Train Open, a great match,
Speaker 1: but it's been a little bit since then. Really it
Speaker 1: hasn't been great for her standards. You know, she's made
Speaker 1: finals and all that sort of stuff. But I sort
Speaker 1: of said this when she turned that match around down
Speaker 1: a set and three love earlier in the tournament, I
Speaker 1: was like, maybe this is a massive turnaround time for her,
Speaker 1: This is this could be career changing this year, and
Speaker 1: it all was. And that's what really triggers me and
Speaker 1: pisses me off about the fact that she wasn't given
Speaker 1: the opportunity to be at her best after the effort
Speaker 1: that she put in all tournament long, and the matches
Speaker 1: that she came back in, and then you made her
Speaker 1: go out and play a final where she's on limited sleep.
Speaker 1: And if anyone knows, if you're lacking five three percent
Speaker 1: against someone playing so well against eger, if you're lacking
Speaker 1: that three or five percent physically mentally, that's enough, that's enough.
Speaker 2: To lose the match.
Speaker 1: And that's why I said the scoreline as an indicator
Speaker 1: of how I feel like she was physically and mentally
Speaker 1: a little bit impaired in the final because of her
Speaker 1: lack of rest and sleep. And again, I don't want
Speaker 1: to take it away from me because she was the
Speaker 1: best player I feel that week. But it'll be nice
Speaker 1: to finally see them maybe have an opportunity to be
Speaker 1: they're mentally and physically best if they were to reach
Speaker 1: the final here. And you'll play each other in the
Speaker 1: Cincinnati because there are two form players right now and
Speaker 1: it's really great to see.
Speaker 3: We take a quick break and then tuck Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will, all right, we'll be back after this. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Caitlin, you know we are in Cincinnati now. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, can I just like as a little
Speaker 1: bit of fun before we get to the depth of
Speaker 1: this tournament.
Speaker 2: I got into a little bit of a little.
Speaker 1: Back and forth on the old socials about Schapovolov and
Speaker 1: you got a little He got a.
Speaker 3: Little annoyed getting into it with the.
Speaker 1: He got a little annoyed at I can't think of
Speaker 1: the French players right now. I've lost my train of thought.
Speaker 1: But he Lefty Bold, come on, give.
Speaker 3: It to me, Give it to me, Adrian Manrena, Goh.
Speaker 1: You're good, Caitlin. We we should do charades together. Good job,
Speaker 1: So man Aarino. Okay, So Shapavolo hits the ball, it
Speaker 1: hits the net. It kind of sitting up a little bit.
Speaker 1: But Sharpo's mid court at the net ish and like,
Speaker 1: you've done this a million times where you're running up
Speaker 1: players at the net. Now you're having to decide in
Speaker 1: your head in the space of zero point eight of
Speaker 1: a second, where you're going to hit the passing shot.
Speaker 1: Are you going to go line, You're gonna go across,
Speaker 1: You're going to go right at him? Where are they
Speaker 1: going to move? Which side are they going to move to?
Speaker 1: And Shapavolo is a great volleyer, so and he's he's lanky,
Speaker 1: and he can.
Speaker 2: Get He's done it.
Speaker 3: He's a shot guy. He's a pleamaker guy.
Speaker 1: He's awesome let the net like he can make I've
Speaker 1: seen him die for volleys in matches. So this isn't
Speaker 1: an athletic very good volier and tall and so I'm like,
Speaker 1: where's he going to hit this? Look like he might
Speaker 1: shade to the line. And also people at home have
Speaker 1: to understand when the players is sitter. I know this
Speaker 1: because this was one of my specialties is that I
Speaker 1: would move to a spot and give someone the open spot,
Speaker 1: and then I would move to the open spot and
Speaker 1: pick the volley off right. And so you know that
Speaker 1: as a player, which way is he going to go?
Speaker 1: So Mannorino decided to go straight at him, which to
Speaker 1: me was actually the right shot, right, because if you
Speaker 1: try and go cross court and he tips the racket
Speaker 1: on it, he's gonna hit a winner down the line.
Speaker 1: If you go down the line, he's gonna hit his
Speaker 1: back end bolly pasted you, and you're done. So we
Speaker 1: went right at him and he hit him and oh no,
Speaker 1: I don't even.
Speaker 2: Know if he hit him.
Speaker 1: Shapavolove was so pissed he starts yabbering away at Mannorino
Speaker 1: like you had the whole court, like blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, brohre you serious? And Max Purcell wrote
Speaker 1: in the same little thing on I think it was
Speaker 1: on Instagram. He's like, bro is a tennis ball, like
Speaker 1: get over yourself kind of thing, right, And people like
Speaker 1: he had the whole court and they're going at me like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, it was the right shot.
Speaker 2: It was the correct shot. I just don't understand.
Speaker 1: I just get so annoyed by people that have never
Speaker 1: really played, and even some guy in Australia like wrote me,
Speaker 1: He's like, I've coached tennis for thirty years and it
Speaker 1: was not appropriate. I was like, oh my god, maybe
Speaker 1: that's why you weren't on the pro tour because that
Speaker 1: was the right shot that he hit. Shapovalov next game
Speaker 1: has a fourhand running passing shot. Menorin is kind of
Speaker 1: a bit of a dead duck at the net. Absolutely
Speaker 1: rips it at him.
Speaker 2: That's fair in tennis. That's the play.
Speaker 1: If you don't think you can get around them or
Speaker 1: over their head, you go right at him.
Speaker 3: I mean, these people have obviously never played college tennis
Speaker 3: because college tennis pegging somebody's extra points.
Speaker 2: Don't talk to Von Landel about this. That was like
Speaker 2: a sport for him.
Speaker 3: I am reminded of Ben Shelton playing doubles. Where was
Speaker 3: it in Montic drib Y He he hit a player
Speaker 3: with a tennis ball and the guy falls over like
Speaker 3: he's been shot point blank and he's like, bro, bro,
Speaker 3: you guys are so soft. It's a tennis ball. And
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, this is really actually endearing me
Speaker 3: to Ben Shelton I'm not saying you try to go
Speaker 3: for their heads, but if it hits their body part,
Speaker 3: or if you can't, as you say, strategically make a
Speaker 3: cross court down the line or lob going right at
Speaker 3: them is a great play. You know, tell me you've
Speaker 3: never played competitive tennis. Without telling me you never played
Speaker 3: competitive tennis. Although Renee, I thought we did have a
Speaker 3: new resolution for you to not get into it with
Speaker 3: people on social.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I mean, listen, I go back at people.
Speaker 1: Maybe five percent now it used to be fifty. I
Speaker 1: guess are improved.
Speaker 2: I've grown up. I've grown up.
Speaker 3: This is what growth looks like. Ladies and gentlemen, Let's
Speaker 3: talk more about Cincinnati. It's all popping off you. You
Speaker 3: mistakenly said that we were here in Cincinnati. I think
Speaker 3: you meant here in this portion of the year, in
Speaker 3: this portion of the calendar, because neither of us in
Speaker 3: fact or in Cincinnati, where it appears to be one
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty percent due point and raining all the time,
Speaker 3: which is a real bummer. But obviously all the best
Speaker 3: tennis players in the world are there and they are
Speaker 3: duking it out. Our favorite sisters are going to be
Speaker 3: playing doubles this evening.
Speaker 2: Today, today and Serena.
Speaker 3: We've got Alex Yala versus Amanda Anissimova. We got Arthur Ferry.
Speaker 3: He won his first match since his amazing magical semifinal
Speaker 3: run at Wimbledon, takes on Alex de Minar. It's you know,
Speaker 3: Ben Shelton's already out till their Fritz loss is cool,
Speaker 3: but won his match. Felix O jel Asiem took a
Speaker 3: teasy passe. It's all happening. I don't know where you
Speaker 3: want to start, but there's just a bevy of great matches,
Speaker 3: a bevy of great players, and I I don't know.
Speaker 3: For me, I'd like to see Amanda Nisimova turn the corner.
Speaker 3: Here looks she looks happy. Kind of pursue it to
Speaker 3: our conversation about players, even if you don't love the
Speaker 3: way they play, you just want them to do well.
Speaker 3: I love him in a Nissimova's backhand. I love her pep.
Speaker 3: I love the fact that she's, you know, got the
Speaker 3: goods when it matters in deep ends of tournaments. And
Speaker 3: I'd love to see her kind of get through whatever
Speaker 3: mental funk with her new well returned coaching team. Alexei
Speaker 3: Ala fantastic story. That's gonna be popcorn. But for me,
Speaker 3: I'd like to see a Nissimova go deep in this
Speaker 3: tournament to give her a little bit of a boost
Speaker 3: going into the OS Open.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she needs it because you know, clearly so
Speaker 1: somebody has a lot of points to defend. Not that
Speaker 1: that matters because she's such a good player. She's going
Speaker 1: to be in the top twenty at least for her
Speaker 1: entire career. She's too good a player not to be
Speaker 1: able to do that. But yeah, look, certainly it will
Speaker 1: be a test for her against Iyala, and it's because
Speaker 1: guess what as I talked about and I have talked
Speaker 1: about for the last week or so, is that you
Speaker 1: have to be mentally prepared to deal with the crowd
Speaker 1: that is going to be not only alexi Alla's ability
Speaker 1: and talent to take the ball on and redirect the
Speaker 1: ball really well as much like Angie Kobe used to do.
Speaker 1: Amanda has to be patient, but she has to be
Speaker 1: in control of the aggressiveness of this match, because if
Speaker 1: she allows Alexiala to move around the court, she will lose.
Speaker 2: The second thing is I have talked about the.
Speaker 1: Serf, and you know, got into a little bit of
Speaker 1: trouble a couple of weeks ago when I said that
Speaker 1: I didn't think she could ever win a major title
Speaker 1: Alexialo because of the serf, and I still stand by
Speaker 1: that to a certain degree. But these players have to
Speaker 1: they have to figure out the leftiness of her. And
Speaker 1: I've talked about you got to go with the spin.
Speaker 1: You have to get the correct shot. You have to
Speaker 1: get depth on the return. That's what's important because if
Speaker 1: you don't, alexiy Ala will make you move on the
Speaker 1: second as we say, serve plus one, and that's what
Speaker 1: she's going to do to Amanda if Amanda doesn't get
Speaker 1: the ball deep and sort of getting Eyala on the
Speaker 1: run straight away off the very slow second serve.
Speaker 2: I mean it is really.
Speaker 3: Leftie is the lefty. She tends to go body or
Speaker 3: tea a lot. I've noticed on that second serve it's
Speaker 3: only like seventy miles an hour at most, Like it's
Speaker 3: pretty most, it's pretty slow. It looks like some of
Speaker 3: the stuff I'm looking at in the good old recreational
Speaker 3: courts here in New York City. But it's effective because
Speaker 3: a it's off pace, it's kind of a knuckleball comes
Speaker 3: into the body where if you're tall and lanky like
Speaker 3: in Anissimova or a lot of these girls, it's not
Speaker 3: in their strang zone. They got to really move around
Speaker 3: it and get away from it so that they can
Speaker 3: have a clean look at it. And I actually think
Speaker 3: it's sort of a key to understanding Yella's game, which
Speaker 3: is she's smart, she works with spins, and she's got
Speaker 3: a you know, a lefty look that's not typical. She's
Speaker 3: not coming out and blasting you off the court. She's
Speaker 3: coming and slicing and dicing you in a way that's
Speaker 3: you know, movement heavy, and once the crowd gets into it,
Speaker 3: as you say, it can be a really effective combination.
Speaker 3: So for me, it'll be a really interesting contrast in styles.
Speaker 3: Can Anisio Moba keep it together? Can Yalla find success
Speaker 3: kind of slicing into the body of anisim mobile, she
Speaker 3: will get jammed. I'm sure she's going to try to
Speaker 3: do that a ton Can a Nusumbo adjust like it's
Speaker 3: a little bit of a picture catch, you know, pitcher
Speaker 3: batter dual To me where it's so different in style,
Speaker 3: like who's going to be able to impose their will
Speaker 3: onto this match. And there's you know, obviously a lot
Speaker 3: of really interesting matchups. This one stood out to me
Speaker 3: because I like both these kids and I want them
Speaker 3: to do well, and you know, I'm curious how how
Speaker 3: the matchup will go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you sort of have a little bit
Speaker 1: of like anxiety going and playing a player that has
Speaker 1: such a slow second serve, especially when it's a lefty,
Speaker 1: and you sort of have to work out how you
Speaker 1: want to approach it and you and you have to
Speaker 1: have fantastic footwork and that's going to be key today
Speaker 1: for Amanda against Yala, but it will be certainly a
Speaker 1: popcorn match also, Pagoula Navarro. I mean, nice to see
Speaker 1: Lindon Naskova when you know her match, when she's obviously
Speaker 1: gonna have to play Clara Towson, who's had a bit
Speaker 1: of a struggle over the last twelve months, but two
Speaker 1: very big hitters of the ball, Ken Ribarkina continue to
Speaker 1: play well, IGAs Ciontek looking great, and you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of question marks on sable Anka still, but I.
Speaker 3: Still should we start and talk about that for a second,
Speaker 3: just because I think a lot of folks are kind
Speaker 3: of questioning what the sable Anka situation is right now.
Speaker 3: We can we talked about it. We hit a bun
Speaker 3: it a little bit last week, so I don't you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to die on this hill if you
Speaker 3: don't want to get into it more. But it does.
Speaker 3: It has the questions have remained. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the thing.
Speaker 1: Look, she had a tough second set yesterday against Talia Gibson.
Speaker 1: Tali is a very good hitter of the ball, can
Speaker 1: play very good tennis. She's had some you know, big
Speaker 1: wins in her young career, already in place very well
Speaker 1: on hard court, so it would have been interesting to
Speaker 1: see if she had been able to win that second
Speaker 1: set in the tiebreak. But Sabolanka kind of got the
Speaker 1: best in that situation, which maybe gives her a lot
Speaker 1: of confidence.
Speaker 2: Because one of the things that we talked about through the.
Speaker 1: Last feels like two years is that every time Sabolanka
Speaker 1: got into a tie breaker was like good night.
Speaker 2: She was winning every tie break. That is not the
Speaker 2: case this year.
Speaker 1: She's losing those types of moments, tiebreaks, third sets, all
Speaker 1: the matches that she was winning last year or certainly
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year in Indian Walls in Miami.
Speaker 2: She's not winning this year, So I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, it might be a little it might be
Speaker 1: something small, but I do look at those little things, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so she won that second set tiebreak, didn't get into
Speaker 1: the third set. But you know, she's got a handsful
Speaker 1: to be able to win this tournament because there are
Speaker 1: some players that are playing really good, like a she
Speaker 1: on Tech, like a Rebeccina, and players that can beat Saberlenka,
Speaker 1: And you know, she's thankful that there are a couple
Speaker 1: of people that are not in the draw that can
Speaker 1: beat her. But look, if Sabolenka would have come through
Speaker 1: and win Cincinnati, then she's still my favorite at the
Speaker 1: US Open, just because again, she loves playing in New
Speaker 1: York and the crowds love her in New York.
Speaker 3: So her temperament is a perfect fit for New York.
Speaker 3: She likes the night session, she likes the sizzle, she
Speaker 3: likes the fashion components. She's very, you know, obviously comfortable
Speaker 3: with media and crowds and attention, and I think that
Speaker 3: speaks very well. To do well in New York, you
Speaker 3: have to lean into those sort of things. And I'm
Speaker 3: mainly just excited because I feel like we have so
Speaker 3: many good players, and I do want to say just
Speaker 3: because time is getting a little short and I want
Speaker 3: to make sure we get this in. You know, we've
Speaker 3: been really big upping the women's tour, I mean really
Speaker 3: truly for the better part of a decade, and we've
Speaker 3: been doing this this show. I do want to talk
Speaker 3: a little bit about how the men have really impressed
Speaker 3: me in the last two weeks. I've been really impressed
Speaker 3: with your not only your Ben Shelton's, but your brandon
Speaker 3: Na Kashima. His sort of belief not to not to
Speaker 3: lean too heavily on you know, a cliche and we
Speaker 3: talked about it with the ego, but he's got given
Speaker 3: a lot of credit size, but he's got belief. And
Speaker 3: do you think it's Wayne Ferira?
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, I think I give so
Speaker 1: much credit to Wayne Ferrera. We saw what Wayne Ferrera
Speaker 1: did for Francis Tiafo. He gave Francis Tiafo the belief
Speaker 1: as well. And I would argue and say that Francis was,
Speaker 1: you know, semi finals of the US Open, was really
Speaker 1: on the cusp there, and I think Wayne really did
Speaker 1: a great job with him. And if anybody knows Wayne,
Speaker 1: I know Wayne very well. I grew up playing with him.
Speaker 1: He's I think the same age as me, like hard work,
Speaker 1: are very basic, sort of lovely guy who just does
Speaker 1: the work, and he knows tennis inside it and was
Speaker 1: an awesome player in his own right, and he understands
Speaker 1: the forward movement and how to play a point really well.
Speaker 1: And I think he's given that structure to Brandon, who's
Speaker 1: always I've loved Brandon Nakashima for years. I've talked about
Speaker 1: him years and years ago on the pot about he's
Speaker 1: one of the best backhands in the game without question.
Speaker 2: He's win against Hodah was amazing.
Speaker 1: The last game to get into the final, which was
Speaker 1: the biggest when really technically of his career to get
Speaker 1: to a final of a Master's one thousand.
Speaker 2: The game went for ten minutes serving.
Speaker 1: Out the mount and he kept his composure and he's
Speaker 1: calm against a young, very good player who's absolutely going
Speaker 1: to win a major title in the next.
Speaker 2: Like I would say three years undoubtedly in Hoda.
Speaker 1: But it's just really great to see Nakashima sort of
Speaker 1: get the wins there, but again I think he just
Speaker 1: fell short in the final with the Ben played awesome, but.
Speaker 3: Ben played awesome. I I want to shout out Yakub Menchik,
Speaker 3: who we just released a very fun digital cover package
Speaker 3: on He photographs very well. That's all I'll say. Go
Speaker 3: to our Instagram or our website. You got a nice
Speaker 3: future story. It's in the next print issue of the
Speaker 3: magazine that we're launching next week. You know, made a
Speaker 3: semi made a very very strong showing in Montreal and
Speaker 3: won a very impressive match in his first round in Cincinnati.
Speaker 3: You know, we have called out the second sort of tier,
Speaker 3: the second band of players, for not stepping up. And
Speaker 3: Ben Shelton defending a Master's one thousand title back to
Speaker 3: back years is impressive. Getting confident Nakashima, getting some of
Speaker 3: these guys who made it deep in the tournament. Arthur
Speaker 3: feasts back and looking healthy. Like I said, Menshik is
Speaker 3: exciting and backing up his Miami win last year with
Speaker 3: a pretty strong season this year. They're not feeding away,
Speaker 3: they're not going away, They're getting better. Hodar is the
Speaker 3: best example of all of them. This time last year
Speaker 3: he was ranked what five hundred in the world. Now
Speaker 3: he's solidly in the top echelon. So I think for me,
Speaker 3: we discussed the elephants in the rooms last episode, it
Speaker 3: does not seem more likely that Carlos A. Karez is
Speaker 3: going to be playing the US Open. We have no information.
Speaker 3: I'm just speculating. It doesn't seem terribly confidence inspiring. And
Speaker 3: I don't have any inside information about whether Yannick Center
Speaker 3: is playing. But what I now have confidence about and
Speaker 3: what I now have information about, and it's not insider
Speaker 3: information because anybody watching tennis could have surmised us, is
Speaker 3: that maybe this band of players, this tier is ready
Speaker 3: to step up and make some noise and pound their
Speaker 3: chests a little bit. And that makes me very exciting,
Speaker 3: excited because I love a tennis environment where lots of
Speaker 3: different people are contending, lots of different outcomes. I like chaos,
Speaker 3: I like carnage, I like variety. I don't like certainty,
Speaker 3: and so to me, the certainty of one of those
Speaker 3: two guys winning every tournament was starting to get pretty old.
Speaker 3: Wish they were playing, hope that they're going to play.
Speaker 3: No inside information whether they will or not. But I'm
Speaker 3: excited because now it seems like there's a whole bunch
Speaker 3: of other guys who want it and feel like they
Speaker 3: can go and get it, And I think that will
Speaker 3: make for a much much more exciting US Open.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. And I do think that I
Speaker 1: said who's going to step up? And Ben stepping up?
Speaker 1: And remember what happened to him last year at the
Speaker 1: US Open when he was in control of the match
Speaker 1: and he dove for a ball because he almost killed
Speaker 1: himself in Montreal running back for a ball that he
Speaker 1: probably had no business running trying to run down.
Speaker 2: But that's just Ben and who he is.
Speaker 1: And he's enthusiasm for trying to play tennis and have
Speaker 1: fun with it is so obvious. And I love that
Speaker 1: about him. And he's yes and he's come ons and
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. That's just like his little
Speaker 1: ticks that he's had from playing college tennis, where he
Speaker 1: would have been you know, Caitlin, are you yelling and
Speaker 1: screaming all the time in college? So it's kind of
Speaker 1: like comparative to what it was like five years ago
Speaker 1: when he first came on tour. It's like he's like
Speaker 1: a normal tennis player now out there, like just expressing
Speaker 1: himself in those moments.
Speaker 2: But there is no doubt.
Speaker 1: And I've said this, We've been waiting for who's going
Speaker 1: to be the next American to win a major title,
Speaker 1: and I do believe that it's Ben. And the reason
Speaker 1: I do say that I think he has the best
Speaker 1: chance of everybody is because he has the weapons and
Speaker 1: he's dangerous when he's on. But it's a matter of
Speaker 1: mentally and emotionally, and not so much physically, because I
Speaker 1: think he's physically a specimen. I think that it's more
Speaker 1: along the lines of emotionally and mentally. Can he get
Speaker 1: through the best of five seven matches against the Yannis
Speaker 1: and against Alchasz and winning masters, won thousands like that,
Speaker 1: and having those results and knowing how well he played
Speaker 1: at the US Open last year, look out, no one's
Speaker 1: going to want to play Ben Shelton, And particularly whatever
Speaker 1: he does here in Cincinnati will certainly be if you
Speaker 1: win Cincinnati, for example, wow, will that give him tremendous
Speaker 1: like confidence going in to play the big fellas at
Speaker 1: the US Open? And who knows if the big fellows
Speaker 1: are even going to be there at this point, because
Speaker 1: they're certainly not looking good at the moment. All right,
Speaker 1: let's take a really quick break. We've got one or
Speaker 1: two questions that we want to get to before we
Speaker 1: end the pod today, so let's.
Speaker 2: Do that now, Okay, Caitlin, my lives usual. I woke
Speaker 2: up this morning, decided to throw out a tweet.
Speaker 1: And I know so many of our this morning and
Speaker 1: choose violence. I chose to just throw a quick question
Speaker 1: out there. But you know it's I apologize everyone. I'm
Speaker 1: a little bit unorganized.
Speaker 2: I was out in the Hamptons this weekend at a wedding.
Speaker 2: I was at a wedding, you know, and.
Speaker 1: I didn't really have I forgot to send the question out,
Speaker 1: so everyone, I apologize. But we did get one or
Speaker 1: two people right in garam Hawa Is like you know
Speaker 1: is our staple wrote in and said, I am not
Speaker 1: feeling the hype around Hoddah clearly and up and coming player,
Speaker 1: but seems a bit rude and disrespectful to players and
Speaker 1: people who work around him.
Speaker 2: Misreading or something else.
Speaker 1: Hmm, thoughts, Well, I can tell you from my perspective
Speaker 1: before you get to yours, because I did interview him
Speaker 1: in Washington.
Speaker 3: Dey, can you tell me you've too interacted?
Speaker 1: With him.
Speaker 2: He was lovely, He was a delight to talk to.
Speaker 1: He answered the questions really really in depth, and he
Speaker 1: was great with the fans, very delightful. I do think
Speaker 1: that there's a little bit of a snippety or snickety
Speaker 1: whatever the word is, a bit punchy sometimes on the court.
Speaker 1: But he's nineteen. He's learning to deal with these pressures now.
Speaker 1: One thing I don't like players doing is pointing at
Speaker 1: the towel, like, get me the towel.
Speaker 2: I know, it's a.
Speaker 1: Kind of like a little bit of a it's become
Speaker 1: a bit of a thing, like please go get my towel.
Speaker 1: Little things like that I think annoy people when they
Speaker 1: watch him. They feel like he's a little bit entire
Speaker 1: all at times. But people making comments like he's taking
Speaker 1: a time out to fix his shoe and his shoe lace.
Speaker 2: It's like, guys, his shoelace is broken. What do you
Speaker 2: want him to do?
Speaker 1: Play without a fucking shoe tied up. So there are
Speaker 1: certain things that I think people are grabbing too, or
Speaker 1: sort of like even when Novak would do stuff, people
Speaker 1: would like grab at it and like think it was
Speaker 1: nefarious and all this sort of stuff. Having been around
Speaker 1: him and even off the court, and his dad is
Speaker 1: such a delight. I think that he is a lovely
Speaker 1: kid that has a little bit of a snippety, snickitty
Speaker 1: personality on the court.
Speaker 2: Sometimes. Now I was a little bit the same.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people had thought processes of like how maybe I was,
Speaker 1: but I was different off the court. So he's young,
Speaker 1: give him time, but as far as his talent, he's
Speaker 1: going to win a major in the next three years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have very little dad to that. I spoke
Speaker 3: to his dad when I was watching in practice in Rome.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm never going to stop myself from trying
Speaker 3: to speak Spanish to people or French really depending you know,
Speaker 3: high role.
Speaker 2: It depends on how drunk.
Speaker 3: I went on the Tish Tennis Montreal's podcast s llin
Speaker 3: this week. Actually, if you want to catch her latest episode,
Speaker 3: and I spoke French at the top of it, not drunk,
Speaker 3: I should add wasn't very impressive, as you've heard.
Speaker 2: But well, because you're better when you're drunk.
Speaker 3: As is everyone at languages. But hod Our's game, I
Speaker 3: get that it's not tremendously appealing on the surface level.
Speaker 3: It is not Carlos Altgraz it is Yenick Center. It
Speaker 3: is a stoic, it is internal, It is highly highly efficient,
Speaker 3: and I understand how that makes people a little bit
Speaker 3: less emotional. It makes me less emotional. I'm less excited
Speaker 3: about him as a player than I am about an
Speaker 3: Arthur Feace, for example, just because I like the energy
Speaker 3: and I like the flash that said he's his talent
Speaker 3: is undeniable. I will make a statement that's not going
Speaker 3: to countervail anything that you just said about his snippy
Speaker 3: perception or how sometimes he can be a little short.
Speaker 3: But I think tennis has been missing in the form
Speaker 3: of Holgaruna, who I love of a very low stakes villain,
Speaker 3: a very low stakes villain, somebody who maybe takes a
Speaker 3: little extra time out, maybe goes to the bathroom a bunch.
Speaker 3: Dennis Chapavolas, who you mentioned earlier this podcast, got really
Speaker 3: pissed at Hodar for taking some inopportune breaks bathroom and
Speaker 3: otherwise when he was up five to one against Hodar.
Speaker 3: Shoelaces were also a factor. This has happened a couple
Speaker 3: of times. Do I think it's a conspiracy? Do I
Speaker 3: think he's a bad sport? No? If his shoelaces are broken.
Speaker 3: I don't know what do you want him to do,
Speaker 3: but I think this is exactly the kind of like
Speaker 3: low steaks villainy that makes for fun tennis spectating. He's
Speaker 3: not out of pocket, he's not hurting anybody. He's just
Speaker 3: sometimes maybe lining himself up to be a little bit annoying.
Speaker 3: And I think that's okay. And I think he's a
Speaker 3: good addition to the pack of these guys who I
Speaker 3: think are gonna take it to the top and really
Speaker 3: make it. You know, I don't have to love every
Speaker 3: Shoty hits, but I definitely think the tennis tour is
Speaker 3: better better with him in a shirting dip, and I
Speaker 3: think it's going to happen one way or the other.
Speaker 1: Well, I did say the same exact thing about Yanick Center.
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with Darren k.
Speaker 2: Hill.
Speaker 1: He was at the US Open, and I remember Yanick
Speaker 1: was just getting there. He was just getting whether he
Speaker 1: was a quarters or semis of slams or maybe it
Speaker 1: was prior to that. And I went and Darren told
Speaker 1: me he was working with like, oh, you got a
Speaker 1: good one there, mate, He's gonna be good. And because
Speaker 1: Yannick had the stoicet. He was so stoic, he was
Speaker 1: so hard working, He had the weapons, and it was
Speaker 1: a matter of just sort of molding that young, early,
Speaker 1: kind of deary body and trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: to play tennis at a high level day in, day out,
Speaker 1: point in, point out, game in, game in, you know,
Speaker 1: all sorts of things. So I feel like in that thing,
Speaker 1: I think the one thing that he has to consider is.
Speaker 2: A coach with his dad. Keep the dad.
Speaker 1: He's young, He's done a fantastic job already. Just maybe
Speaker 1: someone to add one colors for, like, somebody that can
Speaker 1: sort of add that extra layer of how to emotionally
Speaker 1: handle the semi final, how to emotionally handle the final,
Speaker 1: how to deal with the press, how did you know
Speaker 1: deal with you know.
Speaker 3: How Dad will not necessarily have any experience irrelevant.
Speaker 1: He has no idea to do it. Dad has no idea.
Speaker 1: He's done a great job. And as I said, he's
Speaker 1: a lovely human being, and you spoke to him, you
Speaker 1: know what kind of a man he is, the good
Speaker 1: family and nice kid, you know. So anyway, all right,
Speaker 1: James Tan said, can you compare the slice back ins
Speaker 1: of Ashbarty and Steffie. How did they stack up against
Speaker 1: each other where they use this different tools by them?
Speaker 1: I figure you would know both well. Most wtare slice
Speaker 1: back ends. Discussions feature these lazies, thanks Dubsy. Well different
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Steffie was a little bit
Speaker 1: more sort of a longer stroke if you think about it,
Speaker 1: Like she really turned her shoulders like really well and
Speaker 1: really used her body to hit her slice backhand. It
Speaker 1: was really flowy and just could pop it anywhere on
Speaker 1: the court. It was just a beauty to watch. Ashes
Speaker 1: was a little bit more sort of hand, but also
Speaker 1: a beautifully constructed slice back end. But she she utilized
Speaker 1: her hands a little bit more than Stephie. But both
Speaker 1: could hit any slice anywhere short, deep down the line,
Speaker 1: cross court so well and keep the ball low. And
Speaker 1: any player that can do with that on the tour
Speaker 1: is going to be successful. Because I can tell you,
Speaker 1: even my pathetic self, if when I would hit with
Speaker 1: players much better players than me, even when I was
Speaker 1: coaching them, and they would be killing me, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I'd throw in a just a
Speaker 1: knife slice, I cannot tell you how many times they
Speaker 1: would miss that ball. It was like it was the
Speaker 1: only way that I could survive and win a rally.
Speaker 2: I would just finally go.
Speaker 1: I'd just throw in a big chop slice deep into
Speaker 1: the court and they'd like hit it in the bottom
Speaker 1: of the net. Now they get used to it over time,
Speaker 1: but it is an underutilized shot. So if I was
Speaker 1: teaching a kid to play that had the talent, I
Speaker 1: would teach them a two handed back can and a
Speaker 1: very good slice back end. And Kim Cloisters was pretty
Speaker 1: good at that. I think Kim was probably the best
Speaker 1: at two hand, best two hander I'd seen with a
Speaker 1: slice back end.
Speaker 2: Kim was great at that.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how they both use them differently,
Speaker 1: but they were very attacking.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna maybe this is charge of it
Speaker 3: in an area of which you are more of an
Speaker 3: expert than anybody else on the planet. But for me
Speaker 3: as a spectator, Steffi was one of my favorite players
Speaker 3: ever growing up, and she almost exclusively used the slice.
Speaker 3: So she used it way, way, way more to attack.
Speaker 3: I think right, she hit over a backhand maybe three
Speaker 3: times in her entire career. I mean exactly, she had it,
Speaker 3: and it was she was good at it. But really
Speaker 3: the slice was more of an attack shot whereas Ash party.
Speaker 3: For me, it was more of a way to mix
Speaker 3: it up, not only reach, a way to approach, whereas
Speaker 3: Steffie was the default. So for me, that that is
Speaker 3: also something that we really haven't seen. We've seen it
Speaker 3: a little bit on the Men's Tour, like Dan Evans
Speaker 3: was using a slice more as the default backhand. Obviously
Speaker 3: we've seen Tatiana Maria use it, but she goes over
Speaker 3: it quite a bit as opposed to just hitting slice.
Speaker 3: But I think that era of heavy top spin forehand power,
Speaker 3: frauline for hid forehand and then a knife slice attack
Speaker 3: is something that it would be cool to see that
Speaker 3: come back. I wish more people would teach their kids slaces,
Speaker 3: because it's all right, I'm trying to teach my son now.
Speaker 3: It's hard to teach. Actually, it's very hard to teach.
Speaker 3: And it's a bit of a natural thing. Yeah you
Speaker 3: either kind of you either kind of get it, you.
Speaker 1: Have it, or you done, and yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: have it, and I I'm thankful because it's the one
Speaker 1: thing I can still hit pretty well. All Right, well
Speaker 1: we've sort of I'll answer the other questions with my
Speaker 1: own little responses on Twitter and for those of you
Speaker 1: not on Twitter or X yes, I know, but I
Speaker 1: woke up this morning and that was just the last
Speaker 1: minute thing. So I'll be do better, Renee, do better.
Speaker 1: It's pathetic.
Speaker 3: I'm just positive. Let's keep a positive. Sorry, next, next point,
Speaker 3: give a moving all.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, we've got a ton of tennis super excited
Speaker 1: about who wins Cincinnati. The women's is the Hunger Games.
Speaker 1: The guys is Hunger Games. Because it's true.
Speaker 3: I love it. Now the guys are stepping up, so
Speaker 3: keep it going, guys, Let's have some exciting later rounds.
Speaker 1: We much prefer Hunger Games in all departments. Although I
Speaker 1: miss you Carlos and I miss Youyanick, So get back here,
Speaker 1: all right, guys, thanks for joining us today. It was
Speaker 1: a really spirited discussion. Thanks Caitlin. And then I don't
Speaker 1: even honestly, this is what's embarrassing about this, because I
Speaker 1: was a little bit having fun this weekend.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what part of the tournament are we in
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati? You know what I mean? It just doesn't
Speaker 2: feel right.
Speaker 3: It's because of the weird tournament ending on Thursday in Canada,
Speaker 3: that's why you're weird. I'm weird too. Play where even
Speaker 3: are we you're used to? Okay, the week is over.
Speaker 3: This tournament should end on a Sunday or maybe Saturday,
Speaker 3: and it's why we Monday. It's so strange. I know,
Speaker 3: it's really weird. Well, thankfully, with US Open starting in
Speaker 3: a very short two week window, we will be back
Speaker 3: on schedule exactly.
Speaker 2: And I did get asked if I'll be in Cincinnati
Speaker 2: with Serena. I will not. She's just playing doubles there.
Speaker 1: She has enough team there to deal with her on
Speaker 1: that occasion, and so you'll see me back in New
Speaker 1: York with Serena. But anyway, everybody, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate Caitline. Let's go of a drink. I
Speaker 1: never see you.
Speaker 3: In your apartment.
Speaker 2: I'm in my apartments.
Speaker 1: Unaccepted, all right, Matete Bye,