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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: A gorgeous young mom strangles all three children dead with

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Speaker 2: exercise bands. Three children ages five, three, and just seven months.

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Speaker 2: How why I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us here at Crime Stories and

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Speaker 2: series six and one eleven. I want answers, I want

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Speaker 2: the right thing, So let's start at the beginning. Listen.

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Speaker 3: The defendant took her five year old daughter Core to

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Speaker 3: the pediatricians for an appointment. She interacted with a receptionist, staff,

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Speaker 3: and a doctor.

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Speaker 4: There were apparently no.

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Speaker 3: Issues with the defendant's demeanor or behavior, as she completed

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Speaker 3: the appointment and was allowed to leave with Korr without

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Speaker 3: any issues or concerns. When she returned home, she went

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Speaker 3: outside with Corr and her three year old son, Dawson

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Speaker 3: to play in the snow.

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Speaker 4: They built a snowman.

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Speaker 3: The defendants sent photos to her mother and to the

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Speaker 3: defendant straight back to her husband.

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Speaker 4: She texted with them.

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Speaker 3: Nothing in the text was out of the ordinary or

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Speaker 3: any sign of any distress or trouble.

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Speaker 2: Okay, she went to the doctor the pediatrician. The doctor

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Speaker 2: noticed nothing unusual. She left with the baby, Coral five.

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Speaker 2: She goes home builds a snowman with the sun. Everything's fine,

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Speaker 2: and then why hours later this.

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Speaker 4: Listen seven four tone.

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Speaker 5: Of Summer's Street with fellow the police, sale party across

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Speaker 5: the top floor of the house, twipers as well, and

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Speaker 5: secondaries and arrests and that collaborations. She is conscious at

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Speaker 5: this time, We're gonna check with my plate who's over

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Speaker 5: twenty foot fall.

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Speaker 6: It's unknown where the knife is or whatever he used

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Speaker 6: to slight her. He's in the looks like they're hanging

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Speaker 6: are on the fact.

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Speaker 2: Well U.

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Speaker 7: She did?

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Speaker 5: He was a knife at first?

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Speaker 7: Unknown where that is?

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Speaker 2: At this time, all we're hearing about is her. Where

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Speaker 2: are the children? Listen, I lotus, I'm on the way.

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Speaker 4: Where was the county cot arrest? And as the two

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Speaker 4: pediatrics arrest, we're gonna betilate on the way mutually.

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Speaker 2: At this time all three children were dad, That's what

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Speaker 2: that means. Why is she at the doctor seemingly normal,

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Speaker 2: building a snowman and then the next thing we know,

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Speaker 2: all three children are dead. How did police end up

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Speaker 2: at the scene? Joining me in all star panel to

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Speaker 2: make sense of what we know? Right now we're talking

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Speaker 2: about mom Lindsey Clancy, who strangles all three children dead

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Speaker 2: with exercise bands joining me again All star panel, but

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Speaker 2: first two. Flint mcgoldkin, Boston haild reporter. You can find

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Speaker 2: him at Boston Herald dot com. Flint tell me about

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Speaker 2: police arriving on the scene and what they saw when

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Speaker 2: they first get there.

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Speaker 8: So when police arrived, they've been called by Patrick Clancy,

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Speaker 8: Lindsay's husband, and they find Lindsay in the backyard underneath

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Speaker 8: the master bedroom window about twenty two down. And while

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Speaker 8: Patrick said that she was probably not currently bleeding at

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Speaker 8: the time, she was covered in blood. She was clearly injured,

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Speaker 8: but she was conscious and she was alive, but there

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Speaker 8: was clearly she would later it would be determined that

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Speaker 8: she had spinal injuries, that she had some severe injuries

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Speaker 8: and had tried to kill herself. So there was blood

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Speaker 8: in front of the mirror in the bedroom.

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Speaker 2: But she did live, yes, yeah, And what about the children?

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Speaker 8: The children?

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Speaker 9: So Patrick said that he asked Lindsey where are the children,

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Speaker 9: because he came home to a quiet home, and she

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Speaker 9: said in the basement, And he went down there, and

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Speaker 9: as can be heard in some emergency communications, he starts

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Speaker 9: screaming because he goes down to the basement, which is

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Speaker 9: a finished basement.

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Speaker 8: It's where he does his work. He works from home

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Speaker 8: in the basement and he sees his children all you know,

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Speaker 8: purple and blue with exercise bands around their necks. So

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Speaker 8: the two older children would be pronounced dead that night

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Speaker 8: and little Callan who would turn eight months with it

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Speaker 8: before dying a few days later.

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Speaker 2: I want you to hear more of what we now

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Speaker 2: know leads up to a triple homicide of little children. Listen.

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Speaker 3: The defendant searched on her phone kids MiraLax. She then

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Speaker 3: searched a takeout three V via her cell phone at

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Speaker 3: four thirteen pm. Immediately after doing that, she used Apple

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Speaker 3: Maps on her phone to determine how long it would

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Speaker 3: take someone to drive from her home in Duxbury to

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Speaker 3: three V restaurant in Plymouth, so she would know how

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Speaker 3: long someone would be gone if they ran that errand

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Speaker 3: She next went on the CBS website at four forty

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Speaker 3: seven pm and then call CVS on Summer Street in Kingston.

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Speaker 4: She spoke to the manager of CVS and asked if

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Speaker 4: they had the kids Marrilax.

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Speaker 3: The manager told her no, but they had other similar medications.

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Speaker 3: According to the manager of CVS. Her voice did not

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Speaker 3: sound slurred or impaired in any way, She had no

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Speaker 3: trouble understanding the defendant, and it was a perfectly normal conversation.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's analyze what we're hearing right now. Joining me

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Speaker 2: Flint mcgoulkin, Boston Harold reporter along with an all star panel,

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Speaker 2: doctor Angela Arnold, a renowned psychiatrist, joining us, and Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer, former prosecutor. You can find him at

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Speaker 2: Darryl B. Cohen on Facebook. Daryl, thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us. I'm sure you just heard, as I did,

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Speaker 2: a tiny bit of the information of what led up

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Speaker 2: to the martyrs of three children. Darryl, you have children,

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Speaker 2: as do I. Five year old Cora strangled Dan, three

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Speaker 2: year old Dawson strangled dead, seven month old Callen strangled

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Speaker 2: dead with mommy's exercise bands. But leading up to the murders,

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Speaker 2: where the children were brought systematically down to the basement,

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Speaker 2: reminded me a great deal of Andrea Yates, who systematically,

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Speaker 2: one by one brought her children to the bathtub and

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Speaker 2: round them, starting with the most powerful child, and then

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Speaker 2: going down because she didn't want to be stopped by

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Speaker 2: the powerful child that the little boy, including a month's

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Speaker 2: old baby. As I recall, her name was Mary, and

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Speaker 2: even Mary was covered in bruises as she struggled against

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Speaker 2: her mother who was holding her under the water. Andrea

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Speaker 2: Yates also made sure her husband was gone before she

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Speaker 2: committed multiple murders, waiting for him to go to go

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Speaker 2: to work, watching him leave, locking all the or so

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Speaker 2: she could not be disturbed, then murdering them and lying

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Speaker 2: them all out on the bed to be found soaking,

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Speaker 2: wet and dead. Did you hear Daryl Cohen that she

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Speaker 2: did a search on her phone for kids me relax,

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Speaker 2: She called the pharmacy asking about it. Then she even

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Speaker 2: planned take out at upscale three V restaurant, perfectly saying, Darryl.

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Speaker 7: And Nancy, what appears to be perfectly seen obviously was

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Speaker 7: not this woman. Whatever happened, whether it was planned in

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Speaker 7: her mind, days, weeks, hours, minutes before, committed one of

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Speaker 7: the most tenous acts I have ever heard, and I've

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Speaker 7: heard a lot.

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Speaker 2: Okay, can I just quickly remind you of what you

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Speaker 2: learned in your first year of law school and which

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Speaker 2: you argued to many many juries before you became a

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Speaker 2: defense lawyer. All right, and then suddenly you've forgotten the law.

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Speaker 2: Because the law says you must not know right from

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Speaker 2: wrong at the time of the incident to be insane.

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Speaker 2: This woman researched ways to kill.

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Speaker 7: She knew, she knew right from wrong. If she didn't

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Speaker 7: know right from wrong, she wouldn't have been as meticulously

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Speaker 7: planning it as she apparently was.

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Speaker 2: And I know this sounds harsh. I know this sounds harsh.

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Speaker 2: I understand that. I understand she jumped from a second

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Speaker 2: floor bedroom. Yeah, I get it, as she may immediately

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Speaker 2: regret the deed. But the law is the law. And

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Speaker 2: if she knew right from wrong at the time she

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Speaker 2: murdered three children, then she is responsible. Did she have

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Speaker 2: postpartum psychosis? She may have, but does that make her insane.

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Speaker 2: You can all hate me as much as you want,

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Speaker 2: but someone has to do the right thing for these

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Speaker 2: three children.

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Speaker 7: Nancy, I don't hate you. I agree with you, and

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Speaker 7: it's hard for me to agree with you sometimes, but

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Speaker 7: I'll be honest with you. She knew right from wrong.

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Speaker 7: There is no insanity here. There may have been moments

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Speaker 7: of lucidity, problems, there may have been moments of insanity,

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Speaker 7: but this was an overall planned, evil attack on three

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Speaker 7: innocent young basically babies. They had no chance to live.

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Speaker 7: And this woman was not insane. This woman needs to

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Speaker 7: be punished under every possible way the law can do it.

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Speaker 2: Time Stories with Nancy Grace, Brian gil Is joining me

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Speaker 2: for more thirty year and police detective. This happened in Duxbury, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 2: near Boston. Owner of b TG Investigations and you can

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Speaker 2: find at BTG investigations dot com. Brian, how many thousands

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Speaker 2: of times in your career did you realize there's no

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Speaker 2: good answer, There's no answer that you like. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I really learned it in my first violent felony prosecution,

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Speaker 2: not my first prosecution because that was an attempt to shoplifting,

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Speaker 2: but my first violent felony because yeah, the jury handed

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Speaker 2: down a guilty verdict, but nobody was happy. The victim's

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Speaker 2: family was devastated, the victim murdered. The defendant, of course,

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Speaker 2: was miserable because he's going away for life. There is

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Speaker 2: no good answer. There is no good answer for Mom

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Speaker 2: Lindsey Clancy. Do I feel heartbroken for her? Her children

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Speaker 2: are dead as she did it. That's pure hell right there.

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Speaker 2: But I have to look at this through the eyes

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Speaker 2: of a lawyer, and we have to do our duty,

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Speaker 2: which is sometimes very hard to do.

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Speaker 10: I agree, Nancy one hundrederstand with what you're saying. It is,

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Speaker 10: it's unimaginable, it's there. I don't think there's anything that

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Speaker 10: we could do that would really make it worse on

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Speaker 10: Lindsey what she's going to have to live with. I

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Speaker 10: agree with what people have been saying so far today too.

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Speaker 10: I look at it, and you know all the planning

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Speaker 10: that went in, and we see the searches how to

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Speaker 10: kill and sending the husband on the ride. But then

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Speaker 10: I think one of the things that really jumps out

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Speaker 10: of me is when she's in the hospital and it's

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Speaker 10: prior to the arrayment and on her white bullet she writes,

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Speaker 10: do I need an attorney?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Well why why? Why? Brian gil I researched this heavily.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that. Could you slow it down? And

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Speaker 2: could you tell me that one more time? What?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 10: If you watch the arraignment, that's one of the things

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Speaker 10: the district attorney says is that on the whiteboard in

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Speaker 10: her hospital room, a nurse alerts the police and says

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Speaker 10: that she wrote on the whiteboard, do I need an attorney?

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Speaker 10: So that to me shows the knowledge of what happened.

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Speaker 10: This is you know, this is naturally after the fact

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Speaker 10: a few days later when she's being arraigned. But still

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Speaker 10: to write that down is a clear indication that you

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Speaker 10: know what you've done. So we just discussed right and wrong.

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Speaker 10: Do I need an attorney? You don't ask that question

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Speaker 10: unless you know that you've done something wrong.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Brian gil Okay, Number one,

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Speaker 2: you've seen it all. I always think I've seen it

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Speaker 2: all all the years I prosecuted in covered cases from

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Speaker 2: all around the world. Darryl has seen it all as

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Speaker 2: a prosecutor and a very well known prosecutor. I might

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Speaker 2: add I got to the District Attorney's office on the

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Speaker 2: tail end of his tenure there and highly highly respected

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Speaker 2: doctor Angie Arnold. Renowned psychiatrist doctor Michelle Dupree is joining us.

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Speaker 2: He shocked to fag during the dare I say his

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Speaker 2: name Alexan Murdog case as a leading pathologist in our country.

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Speaker 2: Julie Lewis is joining us. We need her to talk

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Speaker 2: about digital evidence. She's the president CEO Digital Mountain, Inc.

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Speaker 2: Of course, Flint mcgoldkin joining us with all the facts

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Speaker 2: and Brian gil But Brian, that is a fact I

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Speaker 2: cannot ignore. I cannot ignore it when you are faced

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Speaker 2: with the life and death of your children. I've actually,

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Speaker 2: believe it or not, got jumped in front of them

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Speaker 2: when a car veered off the curb, a big truck

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Speaker 2: actually speeding near our church where we were out playing

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Speaker 2: when they were little. You don't think about you, You

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Speaker 2: think about them. I mean, and there's so many examples

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Speaker 2: of moms that have lifted cars, that have taken a bullet,

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Speaker 2: that have fought off a pit bull to save their child.

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Speaker 2: And this woman is in the hospital riding do I

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Speaker 2: need an attorney? While her children is two days after

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Speaker 2: the murders, they're dead, and she's thinking about herself. As

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Speaker 2: a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut

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Speaker 2: one you're hearing Jennifer Sprague on Friday.

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Speaker 3: January twenty seventh, twenty twenty three, using a raceful whiteboard

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Speaker 3: because she was still temporarily intubated. One of the first

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Speaker 3: questions that Lindsey Clancy asked was do I need Ernie?

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Speaker 3: She knew that she had murdered her children, and she

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Speaker 3: had the clarity, focus and mental acumen to focus on

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Speaker 3: protecting her own rights and interests.

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Speaker 2: Okay, everybody, buckle up. Doctor Angela Arnold's psychiatrist in the

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Speaker 2: Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at Angela Arnold MD

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Speaker 2: dot com. And she not only is a professor of psychiatry,

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Speaker 2: her specialty is dealing with one of her specialties dealing

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Speaker 2: with postpartum now. Also, she was just named as my

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Speaker 2: Butckhead's best psychiatric Practice of twenty twenty three. And I

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Speaker 2: gotta tell you, Butckhead, Georgia, where all the rich people live,

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Speaker 2: it is dripping with psychiatrists. Those rich people got a

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Speaker 2: lot of problems. So she has been voted the best

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Speaker 2: psycho psychiatric practice of all of those shrinks. So, doctor

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Speaker 2: Angie Arnold, I don't know what that really means, but

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Speaker 2: I guess that makes you the queen of the shrinks.

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Speaker 11: But that said, you're just like you're the queen of crime.

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Speaker 2: Honey, Yes, right, I don't know about that, but doctor Angie,

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Speaker 2: I think I know what you're about to say. I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure I'm not gonna like it, but go ahead,

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Speaker 2: hit me, go ahead, Nancy.

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Speaker 11: Every time we hear one of these stories.

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Speaker 2: It's not a story number one, it's not a story case.

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Speaker 2: Cora five is real, Dawson three is real, Callen seven

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Speaker 2: months is real. They're in caskets, they're under the ground,

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Speaker 2: snow on them.

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Speaker 11: And every time one of these things happens, everyone gets

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Speaker 11: his enraged as you are. And I see that what

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Speaker 11: we're talking about today is the only thing we've talked

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Speaker 11: about is the incident forward. The incident forward. Okay, I

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Speaker 11: want to look at what led up to.

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Speaker 2: The God just told you what led up to this.

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Speaker 2: She heard Sprague tell you know what. I'm glad you

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Speaker 2: said that. I'm so happy you said that. Listen to

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Speaker 2: this our cut four.

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Speaker 3: The defendant texted her husband, who was working in his

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Speaker 3: home office in their basement. She texted, any chance you

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Speaker 3: want to do takeout from three V.

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Speaker 4: I didn't cook anything, it's been a long day.

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Speaker 3: This was an unusual request, as when the family ordered

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Speaker 3: to take out, they usually go somewhere closer to home,

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Speaker 3: but it was a place that they had been in

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Speaker 3: the past. Patrick Clincy texted back yes, and then the

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Speaker 3: defendant asked him to check the menu. At five h

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Speaker 3: six pm, the husband texted the defendant asking what she

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Speaker 3: was going to get. She responded, a Mediterranean powerable. She

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Speaker 3: spelled it correctly, and it was something that was on

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Speaker 3: the menu. He then told her that he wanted to

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Speaker 3: scallop in pork belly risotto. At ten PM, the defendant

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Speaker 3: called three V Restaurant to place the order. She got

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Speaker 3: the order correct, she gave the correct name for pickup. Patrick,

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Speaker 3: the hostess who took the call said there was nothing

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Speaker 3: out of the ordinary about this call. She was able

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Speaker 3: to understand the defendant that her voice was not.

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Speaker 4: Slurred or impaired in any way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she even knew enough to order one of her

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Speaker 2: favorite meals from this tony upscale restaurant, a Mediterranean power bowl.

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Speaker 2: And you know, if I asked my husband, let's do

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Speaker 2: a takeout, there's no way. And this he graduated from

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Speaker 2: Morton with an NBA please that he cannot do a

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Speaker 2: drive through there, Like, what did you just say much

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Speaker 2: less order? I mean off a menu? No, I have

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Speaker 2: to do that. Long story short, She got this order

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Speaker 2: scot scollop and port belly risotto Mediterranean powerble. She got

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Speaker 2: it all right, it spelled it correctly. What about that doctor, Angie?

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Speaker 2: She was just getting him out of the house. He

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Speaker 2: was there working in his at home office, plays leaves.

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Speaker 2: So I can murder the children, that's right, And he

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Speaker 2: did had to go all the way across town for her,

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Speaker 2: so she can murder the children. Thoughts, Nancy.

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Speaker 11: When people come to when they have decided that they're

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Speaker 11: going to do a plan like that, they're very calm.

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Speaker 11: They know what they're going to do. But I still

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Speaker 11: want to talk about what came before this. I want

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Speaker 11: to discuss how many times she went to the doctor

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Speaker 11: because of how she was feeling, the medication she was on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what led up to us.

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Speaker 11: I'm not asking anyone to say she was insane, but

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Speaker 11: this woman was sick.

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Speaker 2: She may be sick, but that doesn't mean she's not guilty.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking for my oh my goodness, I just found it,

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Speaker 2: her list of medications joining me. I'm want to follow

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Speaker 2: up on what you're talking about because I cannot ignore

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Speaker 2: those facts. Doctor Angie, you're right, and if it goes

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Speaker 2: toward proving to me that she was insane, then she

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Speaker 2: should be treated in a mental facility and not go

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Speaker 2: to jail. It's just that simple. I don't want an

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Speaker 2: insane person in jail. I don't want that, but I

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Speaker 2: want a sane person that killed three children behind bars.

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Speaker 2: Flint mcgulkin is joining US veteran Boston Herald reporter, Flint.

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Speaker 2: These are the meds I've got. I've got their clinical names,

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Speaker 2: but here are their street names. Ambien, klonipin, valium, prozac,

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Speaker 2: lammic till. What's that at? A van remern don't know

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Speaker 2: what that is, Sarah Quill, don't know what that is.

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Speaker 2: Traza done heard of it? Don't know what that is?

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Speaker 2: Are there any more that you know of? Flint mcgulkin.

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Speaker 8: I've got the list right in front of me. I've

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Speaker 8: got a very similar list, it was in a different order,

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Speaker 8: so I hope I didn't miss anything.

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Speaker 2: Just give me your list real quick, then we'll ask

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Speaker 2: doctor Michelle dupre about what they are.

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Speaker 11: Nancy, just f y. I I can tell you what

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Speaker 11: each one of those medicines is for.

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Speaker 2: And why is your name doctor Michelle Duprey? No, but

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Speaker 2: this is my It's doctor any Arnold. Okay, Okay, well

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Speaker 2: you just go on and I'll let you and doctor

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Speaker 2: dupre fight out who's more of a special doctor. But Flint,

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Speaker 2: do you have any other meds. Just give me your

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Speaker 2: list real quick.

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Speaker 8: Certainly the one from my coverage that I've taken out here,

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Speaker 8: I've got it includes, according to Patrick Clancy, Zola, dallium, trazodone,

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Speaker 8: out Evan, klonipin, Prozac, and Sarah Couill. And then I

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Speaker 8: think others that I didn't. Yeah, that's my list.

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Speaker 2: Yeah I didn't have zoloft. Doctor Michelle Duprey joining US

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Speaker 2: forensics Pathologists, medical examiner, detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder,

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Speaker 2: the Murdoch Saga the rest of the story. And it

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Speaker 2: ain't over yet, doctor Michelle. You may have to do

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Speaker 2: an addendum. I will, but also writing the book Homicide

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Speaker 2: Investigation Field Guide and a second book investigating Child Abuse

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Speaker 2: Fueled Guide, Doctor Dupree. Since doctor Angie specialty is psychiatry,

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Speaker 2: let me ask you about your specialty. How did the children,

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Speaker 2: the three little children die with these exercise bands? Why

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Speaker 2: clinically are they blue when Daddy finds.

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Speaker 12: Them, Nancy, they were strangled, basically, that's the term. And

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Speaker 12: the oxygen was cut off to their brains because they

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Speaker 12: were strangled with the exercise bands around the neck.

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Speaker 2: But when you are when you have any lack of

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Speaker 2: oxygen doesn't don't your lips or your fingertips, parts of

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Speaker 2: your body begin to turn blue?

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Speaker 12: And why yes, they can absolutely do that. And again

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Speaker 12: and it's because that when that blood supply is cut off,

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Speaker 12: your blood carries oxygen to parts of your body, and

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Speaker 12: so because the oxygen is cut off, then you begin

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Speaker 12: to turn blue in those places.

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Speaker 2: What would the children have experienced, Nanthy.

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Speaker 12: It would have been frightening. Not only would it have

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Speaker 12: been frightening because they were being strangled and couldn't breathe,

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Speaker 12: but because they would see their mother doing this. That's

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Speaker 12: the part that just frightens me. The last thing they

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Speaker 12: saw was their mother. Someone who was supposed to take

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Speaker 12: care of the children, to protect them, is now.

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Speaker 2: Killing them one by one. I guarantee you we're going

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Speaker 2: to learn she brought them down their single, single file,

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Speaker 2: so one could not stop her from killing the other. Okay,

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Speaker 2: doctor Angie, you asked for it, you got it. You

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Speaker 2: tell me about the drugs, because that sounds I don't

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Speaker 2: even know what some of those drugs are. They sound terrible.

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Speaker 11: So Nancy, when I looked at when I looked at

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Speaker 11: the drugs, and she had been to she had been

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Speaker 11: to a couple of different psychiatrists and it looked like

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Speaker 11: at one point she had either and checked yourself into

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Speaker 11: a hospital. When you see when you see that many

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Speaker 11: drugs that are trying to treat anxiety and depression, and

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Speaker 11: a couple of the drugs. The sarah quill is an antipsychotic,

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Speaker 11: that is, that is usually what we use for anxiety.

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Speaker 11: And also if someone is a little bit out of

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Speaker 11: touch with reality and and they're not thinking clearly, will

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Speaker 11: use sarah quill in a post part of mother. And

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Speaker 11: Lamictel is a mood stabilizer.

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Speaker 2: You know what. I'm sorry, doctor Angie, I all write

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Speaker 2: this down. It's just too much. I'm just a JD.

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Speaker 11: What sarah quill sarah quill is an antipsychotic.

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Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead, place.

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Speaker 11: And lamictal Lamictal is a mood stabilizer, okay.

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Speaker 2: What's adavan?

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Speaker 11: Adavan is a benzodiazepine which is used for anxiety and.

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Speaker 2: Sleep, okay. And what's rimaran?

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Speaker 11: Rimaran is another drug that is used for sleep.

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Speaker 2: And Prozac.

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Speaker 11: Prozac is an antidepressant. Vali and zola off as an antidepressant.

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Speaker 11: Valuume is a stronger medicine that she used for sleep

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Speaker 11: and anxiety.

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Speaker 2: Right, was clonopin.

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Speaker 11: Clonapin is a long acting benzodiazepain.

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Speaker 2: Please don't talk that way to May. What does that mean?

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Speaker 11: It means that it lasts longer than at a van

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Speaker 11: at a van will.

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Speaker 2: What is it?

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Speaker 11: It's for anxiety, It's for anxiety, nancy and ambition. Ambient

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Speaker 11: is simply for sleep.

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Speaker 2: And trasidine sleep. Ambien you said, is anxiety or sleep?

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Speaker 4: Sleep?

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Speaker 2: And trasidone sleep. Was she taking all of this? Flint mcgawkin.

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Speaker 8: So these were drugs that she had been prescribed at

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Speaker 8: various times. I think she was a prescribed only four

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Speaker 8: of them at the time of the murders, And in fact,

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Speaker 8: blood work showed that several medications were in her system

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Speaker 8: that spu spread argued that they were in Most of

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Speaker 8: them were in safe therapeutic doses, but that the sera quo,

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Speaker 8: the anti narcotic in a higher dose, all.

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Speaker 2: Those other drugs she had babbled in over an eight

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Speaker 2: month period. Can we also talk about her digital trail?

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Speaker 2: Sheilaugh tracks a mile wide. Take a listen again to

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Speaker 2: Ada Jennifer Sprague.

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Speaker 3: Patrick Clancy headed out the door to run these errands

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Speaker 3: at the defendant's request. As he left, she texted in PDLX.

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Speaker 4: Liquid stool softener.

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Speaker 3: Surveillance footage shows mister Clancy at CBS on Summer Street

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Speaker 3: in Kingston at five thirty two pm. He goes to

434
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 3: the medication aisle, the children's medication aisle. Phone records showed

435
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: that he called the defendant at five thirty three pm

436
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: and she did not answer the phone. She then calls

437
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 3: him back at five thirty four pm and the call

438
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 3: lasted fourteen seconds. He's there at the store, I'm sure

439
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: of which medication to get, and she tells him exactly

440
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: what she wants. He had no issues communicating with her.

441
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 3: It was a completely normal call, although he did mention

442
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: that she seemed like she was in the middle of something.

443
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: He is on surveillance vootage during this time exiting that

444
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 3: aisle and appeared to be using his phone. He then

445
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 3: heads to the register and makes his purchase and leaves

446
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 3: the store at five thirty seven pm.

447
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: Yes, she was busy, she was getting those exercise bands

448
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: and it leads to this listen.

449
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: When he arrives home, the first thing he noticed was

450
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: the silence. He did not see or hear the defendant

451
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: or the children. He actually called her cell phone at

452
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 3: six o'he nine pm looking for them, and she did

453
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 3: not answer. He went to their bedroom when the second

454
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 3: floor and the door was locked. He was able to

455
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 3: open it, and when he looked inside, he saw blood

456
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: on the floor in front of a full length mirror

457
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 3: in the window open, he immediately runs downstairs and into

458
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 3: the backyard, where he finds the defendant laying on the ground.

459
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: She appeared to have cuts on her wrists and neck,

460
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: but he stated to nine one one that those wounds

461
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: were no longer bleeding.

462
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 4: She was conscious.

463
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: He called nine one one during this time he asked

464
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: the defendant, what did you do? She responded to him,

465
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 3: I tried to kill myself and jump out the window.

466
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: During the nine one one call that Patrick can be

467
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: heard asking the defendant where are the kids. He later

468
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: told police that she replied in the basement. So immediately

469
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 3: after this happened, she knew what she had done, and she.

470
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: Knew where the kids were and more.

471
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: When ems arrived, he asked them to stay with her

472
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: so he could go find his kids. The nine one

473
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: one call kept going. Patrick can be heard on.

474
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 4: The nine one one.

475
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 3: Call, entering the home and heading to the basement. At

476
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 3: one point he calls out guys. He can then be

477
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: heard screaming in agony in shock as he found his children.

478
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 3: His screams seemed to get louder and more agonized as

479
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: the time passes.

480
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 4: Cora and Callen were on.

481
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 3: The floor in the den area of the finished basement,

482
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: which is to the left when you walk down the stairs,

483
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: while Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's

484
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: home office, which.

485
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 4: Is to the right when you go down the stairs.

486
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: Each child still had the exercise band that was used

487
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 3: to strangle them tied around their necks when their father found.

488
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: Them Prime stories with Nancy Grace.

489
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 3: When ems arrived, he asked them to stay with her

490
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: so he could go find his kids.

491
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 4: The nine one one call kept going. Patrick can be heard.

492
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: On the nine one one call entering the home and.

493
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 4: Heading to the basement. At one point he calls out guys.

494
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 3: He can then be heard screaming in agony in shock

495
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: as he found his children. His screams seemed to get

496
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: louder and more agonized as the time passes.

497
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 4: Cora and Callen were on.

498
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: The floor in the den area of the finished basement,

499
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 3: which is to the left when you walk down the stairs.

500
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 3: Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's home office,

501
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 3: which is.

502
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 4: To the right when you go down the stairs.

503
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: Each child still had the exercise band that was used

504
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 3: to strangle them tied around their necks when their father.

505
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: Found them to flip. Mcgulgan describe the scene. Dawson and

506
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: Callen face down on the floor, Cora on her side,

507
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: her torso turned toward the floor, and Dad had to

508
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: remove the exercise bands. Is that correct?

509
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 8: Yes, it is, And there were a lot of the police,

510
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 8: the first responders there also had to take time off

511
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 8: some work because of how horrific the time was, including

512
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 8: a children's resource officer that usually worked in schools who

513
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 8: was taking on a ship that night. But yes, so

514
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 8: it was down in the basement there were the children

515
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 8: were on the floor, black, purple and blue, and the

516
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 8: older ones would die that night.

517
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: Julie Lewis who's joining me, President CEO of Digital Mountain, Inc.

518
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: You can find her at Digital Mountain dot com. Julie,

519
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: if you were investigating this case, what would you be

520
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: looking at regarding a digital trail?

521
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, when looking at.

522
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 13: This case and reading the case background. This went sometime

523
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 13: back to September twenty twenty two, and so there would

524
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 13: be things that we would look at, for example, the

525
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 13: Apple maps when she went to CBS and she went

526
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 13: and picked up dinner. We'd be looking at the computers

527
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 13: in the browsers for keyword searches that she was running

528
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 13: across the devices. My understanding there were three devices, and

529
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 13: we would be analyzing for example, she was looking at

530
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 13: how to murder her children, and also to look at

531
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 13: a pattern wass using social media with a text communication

532
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 13: communicating her state of mind. Social media could be a

533
00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 13: really important part of this in her communications on Instagram

534
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 13: or Facebook or whatever social media platform she was using.

535
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 13: I know she used hard copy journals, but there may

536
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 13: be some notes in there about our state of mind

537
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 13: in particular different circumstances as well. In a digital footprint

538
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 13: of that, we'd be looking at the CTTV and video

539
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 13: footage not only at CBS the restaurant. There may be

540
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 13: video footage on ring that may be relevant for this.

541
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 13: But you know, in today's digital world, you know, most

542
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 13: of us are communicating all our activity and there could

543
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 13: be a lot of information about how she was feeling

544
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 13: when not only that, you know, the psychiatrist office, there

545
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 13: might you know, as attorney's you could see peen of

546
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 13: that information to find out what was known? When could

547
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 13: this be prevented in some way? She was returning to work,

548
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 13: so that that was happening in September twenty two, which

549
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 13: may have triggered a lot of anxiety, you know, raising

550
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 13: three kids. I don't know, I'm a mother. That's a

551
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 13: lot to multitastive, you know, excuse for what she did,

552
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 13: but getting ahead of it to prevent the incident in

553
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 13: the first place, but lots of digital evidence to figure

554
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 13: out the story of what happened when.

555
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 2: I'm very curious speaking of the digital trail Flint joining

556
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 2: us in Boston, Harold, what were her searches that are

557
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: concerning to prosecutors.

558
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 8: She had done searches regarding like mental states, about how

559
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 8: she was feeling, about how she felt about her children

560
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 8: and the depression she was feeling, and something about how

561
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 8: to deal with if you were I'm trying to think

562
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 8: of which word she used. It was like how to

563
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 8: deal with being like she was questioning whether she was

564
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 8: becoming a sociopath, But it had to do with I

565
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 8: think she was feeling She believed that she was feeling

566
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 8: postpartum depression, and a lot of the searches had to

567
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 8: do with that. But she was clearly doing searches based

568
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 8: on strange feelings. She was having a better children.

569
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: Back to doctor Angie Arnold, the Massachusetts mom accused of

570
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: killing her three children checked her Apple Maps app to

571
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: make sure her husband, whom she sent to pick up

572
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: dinner and meds, but be away long enough for her

573
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 2: to strangle her children before he returned. Other details regarding

574
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: her searches are very, very disturbing. What do you make

575
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: of that she says she quote kill the kids because

576
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: she heard a voice and had a quote moment of psychosis, Nancy.

577
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 11: What I make of that is that this was a

578
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 11: very sick woman and her postpartum depression was not being

579
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 11: treated appropriately. I am not blaming anyone for that, but

580
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 11: she was ill, and I don't know what she was

581
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 11: on at the time, If she were on a two,

582
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 11: I just want everyone to know that if she were

583
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 11: on too high of a dose of sarah quill, sarahquole

584
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 11: makes people very, very sleepy, and it slows them down.

585
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 11: I don't believe that that could be blamed for her actions. Okay,

586
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 11: but Nancy, she was sick, and I know, Nancy, I

587
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 11: feel like I have to be the advocate for these

588
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 11: women that I take care of that suffer so horribly

589
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 11: from postpartum depression. And believe me, Nancy, it scares me

590
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 11: every time one of them comes into my office because

591
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 11: they're scared to tell me how they really feel, what's

592
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 11: really going through their mind, because they're afraid I'm going

593
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 11: to throw them in the hospital. But more than that,

594
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 11: they're scared of the thoughts that they're having.

595
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 12: And it takes.

596
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 11: Months of intensive psychotherapy and the right types of medication

597
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 11: to get them better. Okay, someone was trying to get

598
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 11: her better, but it sounds like she was going to

599
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 11: different places to make that happen, and that's typically not

600
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 11: a good thing.

601
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 2: So she was doctor shopping and getting more meds.

602
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 11: Maybe she was feeling so bad that she would go

603
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 11: to somebody else.

604
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: You know what, doctor Angie. I appreciate everything you just said,

605
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: but yes, no, doctor Michelle Duprey. Doesn't it take about

606
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: four minutes to strangle each child?

607
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 12: Yes, Nancy, that's about right. And the thing is, you know,

608
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 12: once you're strangling them like this is. It's with an

609
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 12: object of ligature. They'll pass out. If you keep strangling them,

610
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 12: that's when they'll die.

611
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: Four minutes per child. So, doctor Angie, you said you

612
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: feel it's your duty to represent the moms suffering from postpartum.

613
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 2: I feel it's my duty to speak out for the

614
00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: children that were murdered, specifically Cora Dawson in count As

615
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: Brian gil and I were discussing. There is no good answer,

616
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: but we have to find the right answer. We wait

617
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 2: as just as unfolds.

618
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 4: Goodbye friend,