WEBVTT - April | Betrayal Weekly

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<v Speaker 1>We pull out of our house. We get about two

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<v Speaker 1>blocks from the old house, and he looks at me

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<v Speaker 1>and he says, I think I'm getting ready to be arrested.

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<v Speaker 1>Within seconds of that coming out of his mouth, the

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<v Speaker 1>squad car lit us up and pulled us over.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, A show about

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<v Speaker 2>the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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<v Speaker 2>change everything. Today we're sharing april story. Growing up in

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<v Speaker 2>San Diego. April was extremely close to her parents. She'd

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<v Speaker 2>been adopted by them when she was six weeks old.

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<v Speaker 2>Her dad was her best friend.

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<v Speaker 1>I was definitely a tomboy growing up, and so my

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<v Speaker 1>joke had always been that I was the son my

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<v Speaker 1>dad never had. I know how to change a spark

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<v Speaker 1>plug on my car and all of the things within

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<v Speaker 1>the engine.

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<v Speaker 2>They had a typical middle class suburban life. Religion and

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<v Speaker 2>faith were the foundation of their family.

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<v Speaker 1>I was born and raised in the Church. I grew

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<v Speaker 1>up with Christian values.

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<v Speaker 2>Church gave April purpose and community.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a fierce sense of wanting people to feel

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<v Speaker 1>like they belong. Being adopted you deal with trauma in

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<v Speaker 1>the sense that you were almost rejected from birth. So

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<v Speaker 1>I want people to know that they belonged, that they

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<v Speaker 1>have a place.

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<v Speaker 2>The church also fed April's passion for music.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom got me into piano lessons at an early

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<v Speaker 1>age and so I always played at church.

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<v Speaker 2>Her parents' marriage was her model of a healthy, happy relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>Their love was a positive example of commitment.

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<v Speaker 1>Even now after fifty seveidd years, half the time they're

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<v Speaker 1>acting like newlyweds. That's what I wanted. That was the

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<v Speaker 1>vision of marriage.

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<v Speaker 2>Growing up, April knew she wanted a relationship like theirs.

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<v Speaker 1>In high school, I had a boyfriend and I was

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<v Speaker 1>very much a one person girl. So once I was

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<v Speaker 1>with someone that was it like I had blinders on.

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<v Speaker 1>They were my person.

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<v Speaker 2>She also had a vision for her career. Her passion

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<v Speaker 2>was music. She wanted to play in symphony hall and

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<v Speaker 2>of course church.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to lead people in worship. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>be in a big worship team.

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<v Speaker 2>In January of two thousand and three, April was accepted

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<v Speaker 2>into the Hillsong Churches Leadership School in Sydney, Australia. For April,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a life changing opportunity.

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<v Speaker 1>My intention was to go to school in Australia, meet

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<v Speaker 1>an Australian, marry him and live in Sydney. That was

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<v Speaker 1>my whole plan, That was my goal. I was not

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<v Speaker 1>looking to date anyone here. I had no intentions of

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<v Speaker 1>even coming back to the country.

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<v Speaker 2>She was looking forward to starting over and started preparing

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<v Speaker 2>for her move to Australia. But one Wednesday night, April

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<v Speaker 2>was setting up to lead worship when someone caught her eye.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a good looking guy, tall, blonde, blue eyes,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, who is this guy? Like, I'd

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<v Speaker 1>never seen him before, didn't know who he was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was uncommon for a stranger to be hanging out

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<v Speaker 2>before service. He was chatting with a woman April had

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<v Speaker 2>known for years.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I walked down to just say hi to

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<v Speaker 1>this lady and she said, April, this is my son Joe.

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<v Speaker 2>So this was Joe. April had heard about him before,

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<v Speaker 2>but she had pictured him differently. April knew his mom well.

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<v Speaker 2>His mom had told April about how Joe got in

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<v Speaker 2>trouble in Texas. He'd gotten involved with a group of

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<v Speaker 2>guys that were a bad influence on him. Joe had

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<v Speaker 2>just moved to San Diego hoping for a fresh start.

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<v Speaker 1>He was coming out here to start over, I remember

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<v Speaker 1>looking at him and shaking his hand and having the

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<v Speaker 1>thought of Wow, he's got the most gentle eyes I've

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<v Speaker 1>ever seen. It took me by surprise.

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<v Speaker 2>She went about her business that evening, not thinking much

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<v Speaker 2>of it. As she started sound check that night, their

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<v Speaker 2>sound engineer was nowhere to be found. As the service

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<v Speaker 2>grew closer, April started to panic.

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<v Speaker 1>Next thing I know, I look in the back of

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<v Speaker 1>the room at the sound booth, and Joe's in the

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<v Speaker 1>sound booth, and I look at my guitar player and

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, what is he doing. My guitar player

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<v Speaker 1>looks back there and he is like, Oh, that's Joe.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't worry about it. He knows what he's doing. He

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<v Speaker 1>helped build the sound system years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Joe saved the day.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just a welcome surprise. And after that point

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<v Speaker 1>Joe became our fund man.

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<v Speaker 2>Once a month the worship team would go out to dinner.

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<v Speaker 1>Anytime that we would do that, he would make it

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<v Speaker 1>a point to sit right next to me and talk

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<v Speaker 1>with me. We talked a lot about God and our

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with God, and we got to be good friends.

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<v Speaker 2>As they got closer, it became clear that Joe was

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<v Speaker 2>interested in a romantic relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>He would say, Hey, can we go grab a cup

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<v Speaker 1>of coffee or a slice of pie? And MY response

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<v Speaker 1>was always like no, I'm good, Like we can go

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<v Speaker 1>hang out with the worship team, like we can go

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<v Speaker 1>to dinner with the team or with our friends. But

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<v Speaker 1>I was dead set against doing any one on one

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<v Speaker 1>dating with him.

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<v Speaker 2>April did not want to complicate things with her team,

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<v Speaker 2>Plus she was planning to leave for Australia in a

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<v Speaker 2>matter of months.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew that he had been previously married and had

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<v Speaker 1>kids from his first marriage.

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<v Speaker 2>Despite her rejections, Joe was persistent.

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<v Speaker 1>When I was sick, he would just show up at

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<v Speaker 1>my house with the bowl of soup and a get

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<v Speaker 1>well card.

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<v Speaker 2>And as time went on, his gestures became more romantic.

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<v Speaker 1>He would send me flowers for no reason. He would

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<v Speaker 1>send little notes just to say hi, like a good

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<v Speaker 1>morning message. So I would wake up and there would

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<v Speaker 1>be an email from him saying good morning, beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>It made her feel special, but April was still planning

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<v Speaker 2>to move to Australia for Hillsong. The night before her flight,

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<v Speaker 2>she had to record a tape of her vocal range.

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<v Speaker 2>Joe offered to help make the recording.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I ran through all my scales, ran through,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, all sorts of different vocal exercises for him

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<v Speaker 1>to record.

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<v Speaker 2>Once they were done recording, April and Joe packed up

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<v Speaker 2>their things and made their way to the parking lot.

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<v Speaker 2>She would be gone for a year. It was hard

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<v Speaker 2>to say goodbye.

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<v Speaker 1>He and I were standing by the cars just chatting,

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<v Speaker 1>and as we're talking, all of a sudden, I just

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<v Speaker 1>kissed him, Like there was no thought to it. I

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<v Speaker 1>just leaned in and kissed him.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so out of character for April. She surprised herself.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was just shaking. I was like, I'm so sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know why I did that. And then

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<v Speaker 1>the next thing I know, he's kissing me. It was

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<v Speaker 1>one of those kisses that just kind of made your

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<v Speaker 1>knees vocal.

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<v Speaker 2>The kiss was electric, in part because they both knew

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<v Speaker 2>April was about to leave the country.

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<v Speaker 1>And then he was like okay, and I was like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good, Like we're good. And I said, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what's going to happen because I am leaving, but

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<v Speaker 1>we'll stay in touch. The next morning, I got on

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<v Speaker 1>a plane and went to Sydney.

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<v Speaker 2>When she got there, she jumped right into school. Hillsong

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<v Speaker 2>College is well known for their worship and vocational courses.

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<v Speaker 2>For April being there was a dream come true.

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<v Speaker 1>They had this program where you would get all the

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<v Speaker 1>music theory, learn about worship history, music history within the

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<v Speaker 1>church itself, as well as leadership training. I loved every

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<v Speaker 1>moment of it. Lives breathed eight school.

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<v Speaker 2>April thought that when she arrived in Sydney she'd forget

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<v Speaker 2>about Joe, but she didn't. She found her thoughts drifting

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<v Speaker 2>to him and what he was doing back in San Diego.

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<v Speaker 1>He was working at seven eleven and using his money

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<v Speaker 1>to get phone cards, so every single day he was

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<v Speaker 1>calling me. So we spent a lot of time on

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<v Speaker 1>the phone, which forced us to really learn how to

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<v Speaker 1>communicate with each other.

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<v Speaker 2>On those long phone calls, they learned a lot about

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<v Speaker 2>each other. In many ways, they were opposites.

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<v Speaker 1>I was always so serious and he had the ability

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<v Speaker 1>to really make me laugh and just enjoy the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>He made life fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Joe helped her relax. For the whole year she was

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia, their attraction evolved. The distance brought them even

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<v Speaker 2>closer When April flew back to the States, Joe surprised

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<v Speaker 2>her by picking her up at the airport.

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<v Speaker 1>We're driving back and he pulls off at this rest

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<v Speaker 1>stop and it's a beautiful overlook that overlooks the Pacific

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<v Speaker 1>Go in San Diego. It was a beautiful day, like

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<v Speaker 1>the sun which He's standing behind me with his arms

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<v Speaker 1>around me, and we're just talking and he's pointing out

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<v Speaker 1>into the water and he was like, can you see

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<v Speaker 1>that boat out there? And I was like, no, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't see the boat. He's like, take a moment, close

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<v Speaker 1>your eyes, and when you open your eyes, I want

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<v Speaker 1>you to fixate on where my fingers are pointing. I'm like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>got it. And so I'm standing there with my eyes closed,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he says, okay, open them, and when I do,

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<v Speaker 1>his hand is in front of me with a ring

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<v Speaker 1>box and this beautiful Marquis cut diamond ring is in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of it.

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<v Speaker 2>April stared at Joe dumbfounded.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's like, would you marry me? And I said yes.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm in love with this guy. And he

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<v Speaker 1>has spent so much time talking to me while I've

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<v Speaker 1>been gone, and it just felt right. I was so happy,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just I had felt so safe and loved that.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like, yeah, this was my person.

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<v Speaker 2>Because they had gotten to know each other from Afar,

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<v Speaker 2>their love story unfolded in a backwards way.

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<v Speaker 1>After the proposal. We go on our first official date.

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<v Speaker 1>We went to finding Nemo.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though they didn't have a lot of money, they

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<v Speaker 2>found ways to have dates and just enjoy each other's company.

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<v Speaker 1>We would go for a walk on the beach, or

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<v Speaker 1>we would go someplace and just kind of sit and

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<v Speaker 1>have coffee together. Anything that we could do cheaply we

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<v Speaker 1>would do, going and splitting a meal somewhere. We took

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to just try and spend time together when we could.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just our own little world at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>They met each other's families and talked about what they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted for their future. Joe had three kids from his

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<v Speaker 2>first marriage. They lived with their mom out of state.

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<v Speaker 2>Joe didn't want any more kids, and April was on

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<v Speaker 2>the same page.

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<v Speaker 1>Kids were never something that I really thought about.

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<v Speaker 2>What mattered more to April was how her parents saw Joe.

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<v Speaker 2>Her mom embraced him right away, but her dad was reluctant.

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<v Speaker 1>My dad was a bit harder of a nut to crack.

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<v Speaker 1>He was always suspicious of him. There were stories that

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<v Speaker 1>Joe would tell and my dad would just be like,

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<v Speaker 1>something doesn't add up.

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<v Speaker 2>After dating long distance between California and Australia, April and

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<v Speaker 2>Joe engaged. They were thrilled, but April's dad had some

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<v Speaker 2>reservations about Joe. He gave him a pass because his

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<v Speaker 2>daughter loved him, and in May of two thousand and four,

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<v Speaker 2>April and Joe got married.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't want anything elaborate. I just wanted a simple wedding,

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<v Speaker 1>and we had the wedding at a local hotel that

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<v Speaker 1>had just opened up their wedding garden. Our friends and

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<v Speaker 1>family were there. It was beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>They wrote their own vowels.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't the typical you know, I'm going to love, honor,

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<v Speaker 1>and obey you. It was I want to support who

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<v Speaker 1>you are as a person and who God has created

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<v Speaker 1>you to be.

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<v Speaker 2>After the wedding, the couple moved into their first apartment.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the first time April lived with a partner.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, it was a time of a lot of firsts.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd never been with a man period, Like I'd never

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<v Speaker 1>had sex until him, so he was my first, so

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<v Speaker 1>there was a little bit of am I doing things right?

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<v Speaker 1>Am I pleasing him? Am I making him happy? I

0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 1>can't remember the first year. I would wake up in

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.960
<v Speaker 1>the middle of the night and almost freak out because

0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 1>there was a boy in my bed.

0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.000
<v Speaker 2>After thirty years of being independent, it was a big

0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 2>adjustment to live with a man. April quickly realized.

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:28.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing all the dishes. I'm doing the cooking, cleaning, laundry,

0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 1>taking the trash out.

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 2>She also noticed a pattern whenever she confronted Joe, he.

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Would step up for a couple of weeks, he would

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 1>take the trash out without me asking, he would clean

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 1>up his own dishes, and then it would slowly slip

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>back into me taking care of everything again.

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 2>It was disappointing, but Joe was still the same guy

0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 2>she'd fallen in love with. He always took time to

0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 2>make her feel seen.

0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.360
<v Speaker 1>He was still bringing flowers just because if I had

0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.200
<v Speaker 1>a rough day, we would go grab a pizza from

0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 1>the pizza place on the corner, just little things that

0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.280
<v Speaker 1>it was like, Okay, it's still very thoughtful, and yeah,

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:18.240
<v Speaker 1>we've got this tension of I'm doing everything, but he's

0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 1>still taking care of me.

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Eventually, the couple both found jobs at a local ministry.

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Joe worked in their video department.

0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 1>She was editing videos and getting everything ready to go

0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 1>on to actual TV. I worked in the prayer center,

0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 1>and it was where people could call in that needed

0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.920
<v Speaker 1>prayer and they could get a hold of a live

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 1>person that would take time to sit and listen to

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 1>them and just pray with them and talk with them.

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and nine, five years into their marriage,

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Joe got a call from his first wife. She needed

0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.360
<v Speaker 2>support with the kids, and she asked if Joe's teenage

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 2>son could come live with them. April agreed. She welcomed

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 2>him into their home and into their family.

0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.120
<v Speaker 1>He was a great kid. He really wasn't any trouble

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 1>and he lived with us through his entire high school

0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 1>years and played football for the high school and all that.

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:24.840
<v Speaker 1>The kid was tenderhearted, he just wanted to do right.

0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.080
<v Speaker 2>It was a really successful arrangement. A few years later,

0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Joe's daughter came to stay with them as well. However,

0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.040
<v Speaker 2>it was a lot more challenging. Joe's daughter was going

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 2>through a difficult time and Joe was too.

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 1>He had been through bouts of unemployment before, but it

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.160
<v Speaker 1>was while she was here that he went through the

0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 1>longest period of unemployment of about two years. And so

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 1>during that time, I'm the soul breadwinner. Joe began to

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:59.080
<v Speaker 1>drink and his drinking was escalating.

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.720
<v Speaker 2>It was too much pressure on April to support the

0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:03.360
<v Speaker 2>whole family.

0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.040
<v Speaker 1>I told him that I was done. I couldn't do

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:08.000
<v Speaker 1>this anymore.

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 2>They weren't able to provide Joe's daughter with the support

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.240
<v Speaker 2>she needed, so she went home to Texas. Joe was upset.

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.119
<v Speaker 2>He felt like he failed his daughter and in the

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:24.920
<v Speaker 2>process lost her too. To cope, Joe threw himself into

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.760
<v Speaker 2>his job working for their church, where he was running

0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.960
<v Speaker 2>sound and helping them upgrade their audio visual capabilities. The

0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.639
<v Speaker 2>church wanted to start live streaming their service so members

0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.600
<v Speaker 2>of the congregation could watch from home.

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:40.960
<v Speaker 1>She was trying to help our church get up on

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.479
<v Speaker 1>live streaming, so he would log onto this website that

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 1>had all these various different live streams.

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 2>On these live streaming sites, Joe would sometimes help other

0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 2>church members troubleshoot any technical difficulties.

0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 1>I would notice that every once in a while he

0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.160
<v Speaker 1>would be chatting with the young girls, not necessarily teenage girls,

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.240
<v Speaker 1>but maybe early twenties, and I would ask what are

0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 1>you doing and he's like, oh, I'm trying to help

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:13.439
<v Speaker 1>them get their streaming correct because their camera's fuzzy. He

0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.160
<v Speaker 1>could make it sound so logical and so reasonable.

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.879
<v Speaker 2>It seemed a little odd to April, but she believed Joe.

0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.879
<v Speaker 2>He had always been one to help out the kids

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.760
<v Speaker 2>at church, and he took a special interest in mentoring youth.

0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 1>At our church. We had had a couple of guys

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 1>come in at one point that were following some of

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:44.199
<v Speaker 1>the young girls around the church, and Joe he was

0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the one that clocked it and went into leadership and

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.760
<v Speaker 1>was like, these guys need to go. What they're doing

0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:56.360
<v Speaker 1>is sketchy. He'd always been that guy, protective of girls,

0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 1>protective of youth.

0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.000
<v Speaker 2>April was proud of how Joe stood up for their

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:05.520
<v Speaker 2>young church members. Years passed and April and Joe's relationship studied.

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.640
<v Speaker 2>They were involved in church together, they kept watching their

0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:12.000
<v Speaker 2>favorite sports teams and hung out with friends. The world

0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:17.119
<v Speaker 2>they built together felt comfortable and grounding. Eventually, April and

0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.359
<v Speaker 2>Joe felt like they needed something to break up their

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.840
<v Speaker 2>usual routine. They wanted to get back to their community

0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 2>and spend time outdoors together, so they decided to volunteer

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.840
<v Speaker 2>at a horse rescue near their house. They each took

0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 2>on regular chores at the barn.

0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 1>He was feeding the horses in the early mornings or

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.159
<v Speaker 1>in the evenings, and I was involved in helping with

0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 1>some of the training. This was just a real place

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.280
<v Speaker 1>of bliss for me and for him, having grown up

0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.200
<v Speaker 1>in the country in Texas. He was loving it because

0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.160
<v Speaker 1>it just felt like he found home as well.

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.680
<v Speaker 2>They started getting to know the community at the horse rescue,

0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 2>including a woman and her teenage daughter that lived on

0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:05.200
<v Speaker 2>the property.

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 1>The daughter would end up feeding on weekends by herself

0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:13.959
<v Speaker 1>at night, and they'd had a couple of instances of

0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.840
<v Speaker 1>people trespassing at night that were kind of scary, and

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.200
<v Speaker 1>so Joe volunteered to feed with her.

0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 2>She was about the same age as his daughter. April

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.600
<v Speaker 2>suspected Joe was projecting some of his concern for his

0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>own daughter. Onted this girl at the barn.

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.600
<v Speaker 1>And then there was one day where she needed to

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.359
<v Speaker 1>go pick up a piece of equipment that her dad

0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:46.080
<v Speaker 1>was giving her, so Joe offered to take her in

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.399
<v Speaker 1>one of her girlfriends to go to her Dad's and

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:55.040
<v Speaker 1>haul it back. They left early in the morning, and

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.240
<v Speaker 1>I spent the day there on the ranch.

0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.280
<v Speaker 2>April was taking a break from barn chores when she

0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.320
<v Speaker 2>saw one of the two teenage girls wandering up towards

0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:04.280
<v Speaker 2>the stable.

0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.439
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, oh, hey, you're back, and she

0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 1>was like, what do you mean. I said, oh, well,

0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.919
<v Speaker 1>didn't you go with Joe and the other girl? And

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:15.400
<v Speaker 1>she was like no, they left before I even got here.

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.320
<v Speaker 2>It made April uncomfortable that Joe was alone with a

0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>teenage girl.

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:27.480
<v Speaker 1>I tried calling him multiple times. He never answered. It

0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.040
<v Speaker 1>was getting to be about six o'clock in the evening

0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and just him and the girl pull up. I take

0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 1>one look at him and I'm just livid, like I'm

0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:41.800
<v Speaker 1>so angry.

0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.840
<v Speaker 2>But Joe seemed completely unbothered. He walked up to the

0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:47.360
<v Speaker 2>barn like nothing happened.

0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:49.880
<v Speaker 1>I grab him and I pull him to the side.

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:51.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, what is wrong with you? He's like what

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 1>do you mean? And I said, do you have any

0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 1>idea you just spent all day with a teenage girl

0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 1>alone in a vehicle.

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.879
<v Speaker 2>April made it known Joe had broken an unspoken rule

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.440
<v Speaker 2>all the volunteers saw Joe pulling up with this teenage

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.160
<v Speaker 2>girl in his car. The girl's mom agreed.

0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Her mom put her foot down and was like, you

0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 1>can no longer spend time with my daughter.

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.879
<v Speaker 2>Joe was hurt by this. He felt like he was

0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:23.680
<v Speaker 2>being judged.

0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.960
<v Speaker 1>He was emotionally upset about not being able to spend

0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:34.720
<v Speaker 1>time with her. I rationalized, it is that he took

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.959
<v Speaker 1>this other girl and put her in the place of

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 1>his daughter, so it was like he was losing his

0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:42.639
<v Speaker 1>daughter all over again.

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.679
<v Speaker 2>Around this time, their church moved into a new space

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:53.119
<v Speaker 2>and downsized their staff. Joe lost his job. He was

0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 2>really struggling. After searching for a while, he landed a

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.280
<v Speaker 2>job working for a doctor who had a medical TV

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:01.840
<v Speaker 2>show on a local network.

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 1>I had seen that show and I was like, oh, yeah,

0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 1>I know who that doctor is. That's pretty cool.

0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.880
<v Speaker 2>On the morning of Joe's first day, the couple got

0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:11.959
<v Speaker 2>ready for work together.

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:16.439
<v Speaker 1>We both got in our cars. He was behind me.

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:23.040
<v Speaker 1>I went one way and he should have turned left

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:26.680
<v Speaker 1>at the next light, and I watched him turn right

0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:29.280
<v Speaker 1>at the next light instead of left.

0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:32.440
<v Speaker 2>April had a sinking feeling.

0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.920
<v Speaker 1>So I asked him about it. When I got home.

0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:39.040
<v Speaker 1>I said Hey, I saw you turn back towards the house,

0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.600
<v Speaker 1>and he was like, oh, yeah, I forgot something, so

0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:44.120
<v Speaker 1>I had to go back home and get it.

0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:47.040
<v Speaker 2>But April was skeptical.

0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Nope, something's not right. For a week he did this,

0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:57.760
<v Speaker 1>he got up, got dressed, left with me, and when

0:23:57.880 --> 0:23:58.760
<v Speaker 1>right back home.

0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:03.960
<v Speaker 2>April was convinced that Joe's new job was completely vake.

0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Sure enough, within a week he's telling me that the

0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:11.639
<v Speaker 1>doctor's son was going to take his job, and so

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:13.160
<v Speaker 1>if he didn't have a job again.

0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 2>It was unsettling. Now April was on guard, trying to

0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.840
<v Speaker 2>discern if Joe was telling the truth. It was starting

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.360
<v Speaker 2>to affect her sense of certainty and trust.

0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:28.159
<v Speaker 1>She could make me feel like I was going insane.

0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:32.000
<v Speaker 1>I legitimately had moments where I was like, am I

0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 1>losing my mind? He would tell me that I didn't

0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 1>say things that I knew for a fact I said,

0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:40.959
<v Speaker 1>But then he had me second guessing myself because it

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:43.639
<v Speaker 1>was like, well did I say that? Maybe I didn't

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:44.040
<v Speaker 1>say that.

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.400
<v Speaker 2>April knew that she shouldn't feel this way, but being

0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:53.880
<v Speaker 2>honest about her concerns felt like poking a sleeping beast.

0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:56.680
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know how to deal with the confrontation that

0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.840
<v Speaker 1>would come from it, and I was afraid. I was

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.560
<v Speaker 1>afraid of what would come out. I didn't know how

0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:06.239
<v Speaker 1>else to move forward, other than to just bury it

0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:06.879
<v Speaker 1>and move on.

0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 2>April was fighting to regain a sense of stability in

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:15.480
<v Speaker 2>their relationship. Top of the list was getting Joe a

0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 2>new job, and April had an idea.

0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:24.879
<v Speaker 1>I kept seeing these ads for driving instructors, and I

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.439
<v Speaker 1>used to joke with him that I never wanted to

0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:29.600
<v Speaker 1>drive with him because he always told me what I

0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:32.920
<v Speaker 1>was doing wrong. And so I was like, you should

0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:36.720
<v Speaker 1>check that out. You love driving and you do love teaching.

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Joe took her advice and reached out to the driving school.

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:46.320
<v Speaker 1>He went through their training program with the owner. You

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 1>have to do so many hours of in car training

0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:57.080
<v Speaker 1>with another instructor background check, and so he started teaching

0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:01.280
<v Speaker 1>kids how to drive cars and he loved it.

0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:05.159
<v Speaker 2>And April was finding her stride at work too.

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Around the same time that he got his job, I

0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:14.560
<v Speaker 1>started working for my dream company. I'm an executive business

0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:17.520
<v Speaker 1>partner and an executive assistant. It's almost more of a

0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:21.040
<v Speaker 1>chief of staff type role, you know. So it was

0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 1>like it felt like things were finally turning around. I

0:26:24.200 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 1>was making good money. He was making good money, he

0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:29.560
<v Speaker 1>had a steady job. He had found something that he

0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:34.239
<v Speaker 1>absolutely was loving. He would come home at night just

0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:38.040
<v Speaker 1>lit up, like so excited to talk about who he

0:26:38.119 --> 0:26:41.000
<v Speaker 1>had taught and what he had taught, and watching the

0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:45.119
<v Speaker 1>light bulb of understanding go off with these kids. It

0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 1>just felt like we had finally reached a point where

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:51.000
<v Speaker 1>it was like, maybe we're going to be okay. I

0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:55.720
<v Speaker 1>felt like I could suddenly start breathing. I didn't realize

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:59.639
<v Speaker 1>that I had been living holding my breath, waiting for

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the other shoot a drop.

0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>One day, April headed into the office early to prepare

0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 2>for an event with her company CEO.

0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:14.159
<v Speaker 1>And as I'm pulling into our parking garage at the office,

0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:18.320
<v Speaker 1>I get a ring alert on my phone from our

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:23.160
<v Speaker 1>doorbell camera and I was like, well, that's weird. So

0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 1>I pull up the camera and I see about six

0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:34.160
<v Speaker 1>police officers at my front door. I completely freak out

0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:35.960
<v Speaker 1>because it's like, what is happening.

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:40.040
<v Speaker 2>She immediately called Joe.

0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:43.639
<v Speaker 1>It rang and rang, and then it went to voicemail,

0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:46.240
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know what to do. I just kept

0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:48.000
<v Speaker 1>trying to call him over and over again.

0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Stunned, April began to drive home to figure out what

0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:53.600
<v Speaker 2>was going on.

0:27:54.720 --> 0:28:00.160
<v Speaker 1>He finally calls me and tells me that police officers

0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:05.400
<v Speaker 1>and two detectives showed up with a search warrant and

0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:10.400
<v Speaker 1>they were taking all of the electronics, the computers, iPads,

0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:16.880
<v Speaker 1>apple watch, they took his work vehicle. They were seizing

0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:17.400
<v Speaker 1>all of it.

0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:22.040
<v Speaker 2>Joe told April to wait to come home because he

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.879
<v Speaker 2>didn't want her car to get seized too, So April

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:28.360
<v Speaker 2>pulled over at a nearby coffee shop and waited. Finally,

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Joe called her and said it was okay for her

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:34.840
<v Speaker 2>to come home. But home was far from a comforting site.

0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:39.960
<v Speaker 1>The house is just trashed. Everything is pulled out from

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:43.960
<v Speaker 1>the bookshelves, tables are moved into the middle of the room,

0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:49.040
<v Speaker 1>laundry baskets are upended onto the bed. Everything is just

0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:49.800
<v Speaker 1>torn apart.

0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:54.120
<v Speaker 2>In the middle of their upended home stood Joe.

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.440
<v Speaker 1>He's very calm, and I asked him. I was like,

0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:00.720
<v Speaker 1>did they tell you what is this about? And he

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:03.640
<v Speaker 1>was like, no, they didn't tell me anything. They just

0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:05.560
<v Speaker 1>said that they had a search warrant. But the search

0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:09.720
<v Speaker 1>warrant doesn't say what the allegations are it doesn't say anything.

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 2>April's mind was spinning, trying to make sense of the

0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:19.160
<v Speaker 2>unsettling scene. She found herself in Logically, I'm thinking, Okay,

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:20.440
<v Speaker 2>they took his work vehicle.

0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:23.400
<v Speaker 1>So I told him, I said, obviously it has to

0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:26.000
<v Speaker 1>do with your job. They took your car. So can

0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:29.440
<v Speaker 1>you think of anything that you might have done? Because

0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:31.640
<v Speaker 1>sometimes he would come home and say, yeah, one of

0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 1>my students just she totally had an anxiety attack and

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:36.880
<v Speaker 1>like broke down crying in the car kind of thing,

0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:40.560
<v Speaker 1>Like did you maybe hug one of your students because

0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:44.960
<v Speaker 1>you know they were upset? And he was like, no, no, nothing,

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:46.600
<v Speaker 1>I can't think of anything.

0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:49.400
<v Speaker 2>But the fallout was immediate.

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 1>He gets put on administratively from the company.

0:29:54.760 --> 0:29:57.960
<v Speaker 2>April and Joe were desperate to understand what the police

0:29:58.000 --> 0:29:59.160
<v Speaker 2>were doing at their house.

0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:04.560
<v Speaker 1>We made the decision to hire a pre trial attorney

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 1>to see if we could get any information on what

0:30:09.840 --> 0:30:12.720
<v Speaker 1>the allegations were or what we could do.

0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:18.040
<v Speaker 2>In the weeks that followed, April kept pressing Joe. Surely

0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 2>he had to have some inkling of what was going on.

0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I was constantly asking him, is there anything? Can you

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:26.160
<v Speaker 1>think of anything?

0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:30.640
<v Speaker 2>But every time the answer was no, and April wanted

0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>to believe him. Everything had been going well since Joe

0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 2>started his job as a driving instructor.

0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 1>He had never once indicated that there was anything on

0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:44.480
<v Speaker 1>his job that was of concern. He had never told

0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:47.520
<v Speaker 1>me anything other than that he was referred all the

0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:49.120
<v Speaker 1>time to other students.

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:52.560
<v Speaker 2>April was out of ideas. All she could do was

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:58.600
<v Speaker 2>wait for answers. In the meantime, April and Joe decided

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:04.479
<v Speaker 2>to move. Had started feeling too small.

0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:07.040
<v Speaker 1>So we started looking for houses and I found one

0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:10.479
<v Speaker 1>about three miles north of where we had been living

0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:14.440
<v Speaker 1>that I just fell in love with, so we signed

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:14.920
<v Speaker 1>a lease.

0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Slowly they started moving boxes to their new house and

0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:23.240
<v Speaker 2>they ordered new furniture too. This place would be a

0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 2>fresh start.

0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:30.040
<v Speaker 1>It was January eleventh. He was driving me to work.

0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:35.800
<v Speaker 1>We pull out of our house. We get about two

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:40.040
<v Speaker 1>blocks from the old house and he looks at me

0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:43.840
<v Speaker 1>and he says, I think I'm getting ready to be arrested.

0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:48.760
<v Speaker 2>April snapped around to face him.

0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:52.120
<v Speaker 1>I was like, why would you say that, and he

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:57.000
<v Speaker 1>goes well. When we pulled out from the house, two

0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 1>vehicles pulled in behind us, and then a marked police

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:07.080
<v Speaker 1>vehicle pulled in behind those two cars. Within seconds of

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:10.760
<v Speaker 1>that coming out of his mouth, the squad car lit

0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 1>us up and pulled us over.

0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 2>April was frantic, but oddly Joe wasn't. It seemed like

0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:21.400
<v Speaker 2>he knew this moment would come.

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:27.040
<v Speaker 1>He just very calmly handed me his cell phone, put

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:31.160
<v Speaker 1>his hands on the steering wheel, turned the car off,

0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 1>and a uniformed officer comes up to the driver's side

0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 1>door tells him to unlock the door. He gets out

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:43.000
<v Speaker 1>of the car, and I'm just sitting there very quietly

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:47.400
<v Speaker 1>freaking out. I still have no idea what is going on.

0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Finally, two detectives came to the passenger side door where

0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:55.760
<v Speaker 2>April sat. One of them leaned over to talk with her.

0:32:57.680 --> 0:33:00.680
<v Speaker 1>That's when she proceeds to tell me that have been

0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:06.560
<v Speaker 1>investigating him for child molestation. He is going to be

0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:12.800
<v Speaker 1>charged with thirty two counts and that it is eleven girls,

0:33:13.280 --> 0:33:15.320
<v Speaker 1>ten of which are under the age of eighteen.

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:41.960
<v Speaker 2>One day, when Joe was driving April to work, he

0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:44.160
<v Speaker 2>turned to her and calmly told her that he was

0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:47.880
<v Speaker 2>about to be arrested. Moments later, the cops pulled them

0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:50.719
<v Speaker 2>over and took him out of the car. Leaving April

0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:55.720
<v Speaker 2>alone in the passenger seat, terrified and confused. Finally, a

0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:59.480
<v Speaker 2>detective told April what her husband was being arrested for.

0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:05.680
<v Speaker 1>They have been investigating him for child molestation. He is

0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:10.839
<v Speaker 1>going to be charged with thirty two counts and that

0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:14.600
<v Speaker 1>it is eleven girls, ten of which are under the

0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:19.760
<v Speaker 1>age of eighteen. I just went numb. My entire system

0:34:19.880 --> 0:34:20.720
<v Speaker 1>went into shock.

0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:25.200
<v Speaker 2>April didn't want to believe the detective's words. She had

0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:28.560
<v Speaker 2>long ago come to terms with her husband's flaws, but

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.320
<v Speaker 2>she never imagined him to be a dangerous person.

0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:35.360
<v Speaker 1>My head, I was like, she might be a liar.

0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:39.320
<v Speaker 1>He might be a lousy husband. He might be lazy,

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 1>he might be all these things. He's not a child predator.

0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:49.239
<v Speaker 2>But then the detective explained to April what they found.

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:53.840
<v Speaker 1>When they took his vehicle. Hidden underneath the steering column,

0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:59.239
<v Speaker 1>they found a small camera that would allow him to

0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:04.800
<v Speaker 1>video and take pictures of girls and their private areas,

0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:08.960
<v Speaker 1>and that they have proof of it on his computer.

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:13.080
<v Speaker 2>The evidence was irrefutable, and there was a lot of it.

0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:16.719
<v Speaker 2>Then the detective began to ask April questions.

0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:21.960
<v Speaker 1>She's like, did you ever purchase a camera for the car?

0:35:22.400 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 1>And I said, yeah, we did. And she goes, what

0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:28.759
<v Speaker 1>did he tell you about that camera? And I said

0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:31.880
<v Speaker 1>just that he wanted to have a camera in the

0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:35.600
<v Speaker 1>vehicle to protect not only himself, but to protect the

0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:37.640
<v Speaker 1>people that he was teaching to drive.

0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:41.640
<v Speaker 2>When Joe said he was using that camera for safety,

0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:45.719
<v Speaker 2>April believed him, But in reality, the camera was part

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:49.560
<v Speaker 2>of Joe's twisted crimes. He'd been sexually abusing young girls

0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:52.920
<v Speaker 2>who were his driving students. He did it while they

0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:57.120
<v Speaker 2>were driving his driver's ed car was a trap for

0:35:57.160 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the girls defending themselves, even just taking their hands off

0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:05.120
<v Speaker 2>the wheel could mean risking their life. On top of that,

0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Joe videotaped the attacks and saved those videos to his

0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:15.359
<v Speaker 2>personal devices so he could rewatch them. Once one girl

0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:20.640
<v Speaker 2>came forward, it was like a dan broke. April was

0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:23.799
<v Speaker 2>in shock, and the detective could see that. She told

0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:25.640
<v Speaker 2>April that she would follow up with her in a

0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:30.000
<v Speaker 2>few days time. The police drove away with Joe in

0:36:30.040 --> 0:36:33.800
<v Speaker 2>the backseat. April sat in her car, the silence ringing

0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:36.360
<v Speaker 2>in her ears. She didn't want to be alone with

0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:38.920
<v Speaker 2>her thoughts, so she started making calls.

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:44.960
<v Speaker 1>I made a phone call to the attorney told them

0:36:44.960 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 1>what happened. I tried calling my dad, tried calling my parents,

0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 1>and they weren't awake yet. Then I call a friend

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:55.920
<v Speaker 1>of mine and I'm like, I need you and your

0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:58.000
<v Speaker 1>husband to come help me because I don't know what

0:36:58.080 --> 0:37:01.360
<v Speaker 1>to do, and I need somebody here can think because

0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:05.160
<v Speaker 1>I can't think right now. So they met me at

0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:08.600
<v Speaker 1>the new house, and I felt like I was spending

0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:14.040
<v Speaker 1>the day just in limbell. I'm waiting to hear anything

0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:17.480
<v Speaker 1>from Joe or the attorney. I'm waiting to hear from

0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:19.480
<v Speaker 1>my pastor. I'm just waiting.

0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:22.560
<v Speaker 2>She didn't know what she should do next.

0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:27.440
<v Speaker 1>It was like everything in my life just exploded all

0:37:27.480 --> 0:37:33.920
<v Speaker 1>at once. I was scrambling to try and grab any

0:37:34.120 --> 0:37:37.120
<v Speaker 1>pieces that I could hold on to to just try

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.000
<v Speaker 1>and make sense of what was happening, but there was

0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:41.120
<v Speaker 1>nothing to grab a hold of.

0:37:44.400 --> 0:37:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Finally, her pastor called her back.

0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:49.520
<v Speaker 1>He's like, April, why did I just get a phone

0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:53.080
<v Speaker 1>call from a reporter. They're asking me about Joe.

0:37:54.000 --> 0:37:56.919
<v Speaker 2>Joe's arrest was all over the news.

0:37:57.360 --> 0:38:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Within four hours. The San Diego Police Department did a

0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:07.120
<v Speaker 1>press release where they put his name out there. They

0:38:07.239 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 1>listed every single charge, everything from harassment of a minor

0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:19.560
<v Speaker 1>to sexual assault, and it went across the news nationwide.

0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:24.320
<v Speaker 1>His brother, who lives in Texas, heard about it before

0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:25.680
<v Speaker 1>I could even call him.

0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:30.160
<v Speaker 2>April's phone was ringing all day, and one of those

0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:32.360
<v Speaker 2>calls was from Joe in jail.

0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:36.399
<v Speaker 1>In that phone call, he was just very calm. There

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:39.359
<v Speaker 1>was no emotion. He was just like, they've charged me

0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:42.680
<v Speaker 1>as a child molester. It was just almost very matter

0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:43.560
<v Speaker 1>of fact.

0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:47.360
<v Speaker 2>April knew the facts of the case, she decided to

0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:49.439
<v Speaker 2>give him one chance to be honest with her.

0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:56.400
<v Speaker 1>I asked him, is any of this true? And he's like, no, no,

0:38:56.400 --> 0:39:01.560
<v Speaker 1>none of it is true. I'm like, Joe, it's eleven girls.

0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:08.360
<v Speaker 1>He's like, I know, but you know, no, it's not true.

0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:13.160
<v Speaker 2>She knew he was lying. That Tuesday was Joe's arraignment.

0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:16.799
<v Speaker 2>April decided to go. It would be hard to see him,

0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:19.719
<v Speaker 2>but she needed to see what he had done and

0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:22.120
<v Speaker 2>she wanted to know what was going to happen to him.

0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 1>When I went into the courtroom, I had to go

0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:28.319
<v Speaker 1>and give them my name and who I was there

0:39:28.360 --> 0:39:30.960
<v Speaker 1>for in my relationship to the person that I was

0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:34.160
<v Speaker 1>there for. So I told him, I said, here's my name,

0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm here for Richard JESSEP. Banks. I'm his spouse. And

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:42.279
<v Speaker 1>then the woman that was right behind me, she gave

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:45.600
<v Speaker 1>her name. She looked at me. I looked at her,

0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:49.200
<v Speaker 1>and she said, I'm here for Richard Joe Banks. I'm

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:52.239
<v Speaker 1>the mother of one of his and she stopped. She

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:57.239
<v Speaker 1>looked at me again, and I said victims, and she

0:39:57.320 --> 0:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>goes victims. I looked at her and I just started

0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:06.080
<v Speaker 1>crying and I said, I am so sorry. I had

0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:10.560
<v Speaker 1>no idea that any of this was happening. I didn't know,

0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:16.040
<v Speaker 1>and I'm so sorry for the damage. And she came

0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:21.200
<v Speaker 1>over to me and she just hugged me and she said,

0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:25.799
<v Speaker 1>I know, and it's gonna be okay. We both just

0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:28.240
<v Speaker 1>stood there hugging each other and just sobbing.

0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Then the arraignment got underway.

0:40:33.040 --> 0:40:37.000
<v Speaker 1>The DA stands up and she talks through how many

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:40.800
<v Speaker 1>charges there are, and then he goes through every single

0:40:40.880 --> 0:40:44.240
<v Speaker 1>one of the girls. Basically, he doesn't name any of them.

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:48.280
<v Speaker 1>He just uses their initials. But he's like, you will

0:40:48.360 --> 0:40:56.239
<v Speaker 1>not speak contact see each of the girls. As says

0:40:56.320 --> 0:41:01.080
<v Speaker 1>I understood. He says, yes, sir, I understand. That was

0:41:01.120 --> 0:41:03.480
<v Speaker 1>the one and only time that I went to court

0:41:04.520 --> 0:41:08.160
<v Speaker 1>for him, because after that, it was like, I'm done.

0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm done.

0:41:10.280 --> 0:41:13.799
<v Speaker 2>April focused her energy on moving into her house, and

0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:16.600
<v Speaker 2>suddenly the fact that Joe had never called this place

0:41:16.640 --> 0:41:18.719
<v Speaker 2>home felt like a breath.

0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Of fresh air. I spent the rest of that week

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:26.359
<v Speaker 1>getting everything set up in my new house, with all

0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:29.959
<v Speaker 1>new furniture that he's never sat on, never touched, never

0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 1>slept in.

0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:33.719
<v Speaker 2>But she still had all of Joe's belongings.

0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:38.520
<v Speaker 1>I remembered that I still had his cell phone, and

0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:41.160
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I wonder if there's anything here that

0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:45.480
<v Speaker 1>I need to see. So I started looking through it

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:48.879
<v Speaker 1>and came across a folder that was the same name

0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:51.839
<v Speaker 1>as the video camera that we had purchased for his

0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:55.960
<v Speaker 1>work vehicle. So I pull up those files and I

0:41:56.040 --> 0:42:01.200
<v Speaker 1>started looking through them, and sure enough, there's pictures of

0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:05.640
<v Speaker 1>him touching girls. I just got sick and I threw

0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:10.680
<v Speaker 1>the phone. I had now officially seen for myself what

0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:16.800
<v Speaker 1>he had done, and I just like, I just was sick.

0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I was sick.

0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:23.239
<v Speaker 2>The next day, April had dinner with her parents and

0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:25.600
<v Speaker 2>told them that her marriage with Joe was over.

0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:32.359
<v Speaker 1>My dad, he looks at me, he goes, I want

0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:37.120
<v Speaker 1>to be clear You're getting a divorce, and I said, yes,

0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:41.879
<v Speaker 1>I am getting a divorce. Both my mom and dad

0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:46.040
<v Speaker 1>were so relieved because they had spent years loving Joe

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:49.200
<v Speaker 1>and really taking him under their wing and treating him

0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:52.120
<v Speaker 1>like family. But for both of them, there had always

0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:57.160
<v Speaker 1>been this underlying mistrust that I never knew about. I

0:42:57.239 --> 0:42:58.279
<v Speaker 1>never knew they had that.

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:04.040
<v Speaker 2>As she disentangled herself from Joe, more and more lies

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:07.360
<v Speaker 2>began to emerge. April and Joe had been planning to

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:10.960
<v Speaker 2>take a cruise to celebrate their twentieth anniversary. She'd been

0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:13.960
<v Speaker 2>giving him money every month out of her paycheck and

0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:17.640
<v Speaker 2>he was putting it towards the cruise. But after the arrest,

0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:18.720
<v Speaker 2>I went.

0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:22.719
<v Speaker 1>To cancel our twentieth anniversary cruise. He had told me

0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:26.279
<v Speaker 1>he had put close to three thousand dollars down, so

0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:29.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm expecting to get some of that back. But he

0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:31.799
<v Speaker 1>had only put two hundred dollars down.

0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:36.360
<v Speaker 2>So what was he doing with that money from April's paychecks?

0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:39.759
<v Speaker 2>She isn't sure, but in the course of his sentencing,

0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:42.760
<v Speaker 2>she found out he was giving money to the girls

0:43:42.760 --> 0:43:43.920
<v Speaker 2>he sexually abused.

0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:50.280
<v Speaker 1>She was paying students or students' families when a student

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 1>would pass their driver's test. It was presented as a

0:43:54.880 --> 0:44:00.200
<v Speaker 1>congratulatory gift, and some of the girls that he was

0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:05.120
<v Speaker 1>giving money to were ones that he violated, but I

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:09.560
<v Speaker 1>personally think that he was using it in some way

0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:11.920
<v Speaker 1>as a bribe to keep them quiet.

0:44:13.040 --> 0:44:15.560
<v Speaker 2>In the end, Joe pled guilty in exchange for a

0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:20.960
<v Speaker 2>lighter sentence. He received five years in state prison. Once

0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:23.960
<v Speaker 2>he was sent away, April made one final appointment to

0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:25.520
<v Speaker 2>speak with Joe face to face.

0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:28.680
<v Speaker 1>I knew it was going to be the last time

0:44:28.719 --> 0:44:32.400
<v Speaker 1>that I would see him, So I went to the prison,

0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:38.080
<v Speaker 1>sat down across from him, and I looked at him

0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:42.720
<v Speaker 1>and I said, do you understand what you've done?

0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:45.799
<v Speaker 2>Joe stared blankly back at her.

0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:50.600
<v Speaker 1>He just very calmly and quizzically looked at me. He said,

0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:57.360
<v Speaker 1>but why would they continue to refer me? And my

0:44:57.960 --> 0:45:02.759
<v Speaker 1>job just dropped. It was like, so that made it

0:45:02.800 --> 0:45:08.600
<v Speaker 1>okay because you were still being referred. You were probably

0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:12.319
<v Speaker 1>being referred by their parents, who had no idea that

0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 1>you were doing this to them.

0:45:16.880 --> 0:45:20.319
<v Speaker 2>Joe had no remorse. He spoke about his crimes like

0:45:20.400 --> 0:45:21.720
<v Speaker 2>he was discussing the weather.

0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:27.680
<v Speaker 1>That's when I realized there was something seriously disconnected something

0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:33.640
<v Speaker 1>seriously wrong with him, because what he did was absolutely horrific,

0:45:34.239 --> 0:45:41.240
<v Speaker 1>and there's nothing that indicates that he understands, or is remorseful,

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:46.680
<v Speaker 1>or has any ounce of understanding of what he has done.

0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:49.680
<v Speaker 2>April's community rallied around her.

0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:53.959
<v Speaker 1>I had a friend stay with me for about three

0:45:54.000 --> 0:45:58.719
<v Speaker 1>months during that time, just so I wasn't alone. I've

0:45:58.719 --> 0:46:01.960
<v Speaker 1>got some incredible friends that I've made over the years

0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:05.440
<v Speaker 1>that I didn't realize how incredible they were until this.

0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:12.200
<v Speaker 2>She had a great support system, but there was a

0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:15.120
<v Speaker 2>lot of internal work. She had a face on her own.

0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:19.000
<v Speaker 1>During that time. I'm going through a lot of therapy.

0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:22.359
<v Speaker 1>I was seeing a therapist at the time about three

0:46:22.360 --> 0:46:25.239
<v Speaker 1>times a week. I needed to talk to somebody that

0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:27.600
<v Speaker 1>wasn't emotionally connected to any of it.

0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Slowly, she began to unpack the emotions she had been carrying.

0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:38.319
<v Speaker 1>There was so much grieving happening, Grieving the life that

0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:41.959
<v Speaker 1>I thought I had, grieving the marriage that I wish

0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:44.919
<v Speaker 1>I had had, grieving the marriage I did have.

0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:49.120
<v Speaker 2>But underneath the grief was something else, so.

0:46:49.200 --> 0:46:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Much anger, anger for how I was treated. Still to

0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:57.319
<v Speaker 1>this day, I get so angry because I feel like

0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:01.640
<v Speaker 1>his victims deserve so much much more than what they're getting,

0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:06.799
<v Speaker 1>so much more. He took a plea deal, and the

0:47:06.920 --> 0:47:11.160
<v Speaker 1>junch gave him five years with time served. Like it's

0:47:11.239 --> 0:47:15.080
<v Speaker 1>not fair. It's not fair to the girls. They deserve

0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:16.680
<v Speaker 1>so much more than that.

0:47:19.160 --> 0:47:22.719
<v Speaker 2>Because they reminders, the full names of Joe's victims weren't released.

0:47:23.320 --> 0:47:26.279
<v Speaker 2>This was to protect the girl's privacy. While she has

0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:29.400
<v Speaker 2>never met them personally, April thinks of them often.

0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know who his victims are, but if for

0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:39.399
<v Speaker 1>some reason any of them ever listen, I would say

0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 1>that I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for what you've

0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:49.520
<v Speaker 1>been through. If I had known, I would have done

0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:52.239
<v Speaker 1>everything within my power to stop it.

0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Since his arrest, the number of known victims has risen

0:47:57.440 --> 0:48:00.600
<v Speaker 2>to eighteen. Joe could be out of prison as soon

0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.560
<v Speaker 2>as spring of twenty twenty six. But I'll never have

0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:05.400
<v Speaker 2>a place in April's world again.

0:48:06.160 --> 0:48:08.640
<v Speaker 1>I have no need to see him. I don't talk

0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:10.560
<v Speaker 1>to him. I have nothing to do with him.

0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:15.400
<v Speaker 2>At this point, April has been busy building a life

0:48:15.400 --> 0:48:16.360
<v Speaker 2>that brings her joy.

0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:21.120
<v Speaker 1>It's just me and my dog and my cat. I'm

0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:27.959
<v Speaker 1>living by myself. My home is my sanctuary. Now I'm

0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:33.760
<v Speaker 1>rediscovering reading. I'm getting to explore new foods. I've gotten

0:48:33.800 --> 0:48:36.960
<v Speaker 1>to travel quite a bit because there are places that

0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:39.719
<v Speaker 1>I've always wanted to go to and he never did.

0:48:40.360 --> 0:48:43.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm finding a whole new sense of freedom.

0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:46.600
<v Speaker 2>What April endured with Joe has forced her to reckon

0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:50.440
<v Speaker 2>with what it means to truly know someone. We end

0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:53.960
<v Speaker 2>every weekly episode with the same question, why do you

0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:55.160
<v Speaker 2>want to share your story?

0:48:56.280 --> 0:49:00.200
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to talk about it because finding this podcast

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:05.759
<v Speaker 1>was a huge part of what helped me to hear

0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:11.320
<v Speaker 1>experiences that so closely mirror your own. There's something different

0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:18.080
<v Speaker 1>about that. I suddenly realized that I wasn't alone. Some

0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:23.440
<v Speaker 1>people have the uncanny ability to hide the deepest, darkest

0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:27.279
<v Speaker 1>parts of themselves from those that are closest to them,

0:49:27.360 --> 0:49:31.799
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes maybe even from themselves. There's no way to

0:49:31.840 --> 0:49:34.440
<v Speaker 1>ever really truly know a person, and I just have

0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:37.279
<v Speaker 1>to resign myself to the fact that this was a

0:49:37.320 --> 0:49:40.000
<v Speaker 1>part of him that he was never going to allow

0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:44.719
<v Speaker 1>anyone to see until it was too late.

0:49:51.440 --> 0:49:55.080
<v Speaker 2>On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I'm in.

0:49:55.000 --> 0:49:59.800
<v Speaker 3>Shock and disbelief, like just nauseatingly sick the reality. I

0:49:59.840 --> 0:50:01.799
<v Speaker 3>guess us is slowly sinking in that my life is

0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:06.239
<v Speaker 3>all a lie. He's in the kitchen going to the

0:50:06.239 --> 0:50:08.720
<v Speaker 3>coffee machine to make himself an espresso.

0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:12.839
<v Speaker 1>And he literally looks at me and shrugs, and he's like, So.

0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:24.680
<v Speaker 2>If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

0:50:24.719 --> 0:50:27.600
<v Speaker 2>team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email

0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:32.000
<v Speaker 2>us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod

0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:35.799
<v Speaker 2>at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at

0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram

0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:44.600
<v Speaker 2>at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,

0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:48.200
<v Speaker 2>and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at

0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.

0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:54.759
<v Speaker 2>One way to show support is by subscribing to our

0:50:54.800 --> 0:50:57.480
<v Speaker 2>show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and

0:50:57.520 --> 0:51:01.600
<v Speaker 2>review Betrayal. Five star reviews go along a big thank

0:51:01.640 --> 0:51:05.040
<v Speaker 2>you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production

0:51:05.120 --> 0:51:07.880
<v Speaker 2>of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in

0:51:07.960 --> 0:51:11.680
<v Speaker 2>partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by

0:51:11.760 --> 0:51:15.239
<v Speaker 2>Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me

0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced by Olivia

0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Hewitt and Monique Leboard, with additional production from Ben Fetterman.

0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:27.919
<v Speaker 2>Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali

0:51:28.000 --> 0:51:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio.

0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by

0:51:37.600 --> 0:51:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Oliver Bains. Music library provided by my Music and For

0:51:42.600 --> 0:51:46.480
<v Speaker 2>more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:48.239
<v Speaker 2>or wherever you get your podcasts