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Speaker 1: We pull out of our house. We get about two

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Speaker 1: blocks from the old house, and he looks at me

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Speaker 1: and he says, I think I'm getting ready to be arrested.

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Speaker 1: Within seconds of that coming out of his mouth, the

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Speaker 1: squad car lit us up and pulled us over.

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Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, A show about

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Speaker 2: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 2: change everything. Today we're sharing april story. Growing up in

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Speaker 2: San Diego. April was extremely close to her parents. She'd

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Speaker 2: been adopted by them when she was six weeks old.

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Speaker 2: Her dad was her best friend.

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Speaker 1: I was definitely a tomboy growing up, and so my

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Speaker 1: joke had always been that I was the son my

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Speaker 1: dad never had. I know how to change a spark

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Speaker 1: plug on my car and all of the things within

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Speaker 1: the engine.

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Speaker 2: They had a typical middle class suburban life. Religion and

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Speaker 2: faith were the foundation of their family.

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Speaker 1: I was born and raised in the Church. I grew

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Speaker 1: up with Christian values.

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Speaker 2: Church gave April purpose and community.

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Speaker 1: I have a fierce sense of wanting people to feel

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Speaker 1: like they belong. Being adopted you deal with trauma in

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Speaker 1: the sense that you were almost rejected from birth. So

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Speaker 1: I want people to know that they belonged, that they

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Speaker 1: have a place.

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Speaker 2: The church also fed April's passion for music.

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Speaker 1: My mom got me into piano lessons at an early

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Speaker 1: age and so I always played at church.

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Speaker 2: Her parents' marriage was her model of a healthy, happy relationship.

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Speaker 2: Their love was a positive example of commitment.

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Speaker 1: Even now after fifty seveidd years, half the time they're

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Speaker 1: acting like newlyweds. That's what I wanted. That was the

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Speaker 1: vision of marriage.

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Speaker 2: Growing up, April knew she wanted a relationship like theirs.

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Speaker 1: In high school, I had a boyfriend and I was

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Speaker 1: very much a one person girl. So once I was

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Speaker 1: with someone that was it like I had blinders on.

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Speaker 1: They were my person.

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Speaker 2: She also had a vision for her career. Her passion

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Speaker 2: was music. She wanted to play in symphony hall and

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Speaker 2: of course church.

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Speaker 1: I want to lead people in worship. I want to

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Speaker 1: be in a big worship team.

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Speaker 2: In January of two thousand and three, April was accepted

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Speaker 2: into the Hillsong Churches Leadership School in Sydney, Australia. For April,

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Speaker 2: it was a life changing opportunity.

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Speaker 1: My intention was to go to school in Australia, meet

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Speaker 1: an Australian, marry him and live in Sydney. That was

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Speaker 1: my whole plan, That was my goal. I was not

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Speaker 1: looking to date anyone here. I had no intentions of

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Speaker 1: even coming back to the country.

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Speaker 2: She was looking forward to starting over and started preparing

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Speaker 2: for her move to Australia. But one Wednesday night, April

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Speaker 2: was setting up to lead worship when someone caught her eye.

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Speaker 1: He was a good looking guy, tall, blonde, blue eyes,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, who is this guy? Like, I'd

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Speaker 1: never seen him before, didn't know who he was.

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Speaker 2: It was uncommon for a stranger to be hanging out

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Speaker 2: before service. He was chatting with a woman April had

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Speaker 2: known for years.

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Speaker 1: And so I walked down to just say hi to

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Speaker 1: this lady and she said, April, this is my son Joe.

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Speaker 2: So this was Joe. April had heard about him before,

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Speaker 2: but she had pictured him differently. April knew his mom well.

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Speaker 2: His mom had told April about how Joe got in

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Speaker 2: trouble in Texas. He'd gotten involved with a group of

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Speaker 2: guys that were a bad influence on him. Joe had

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Speaker 2: just moved to San Diego hoping for a fresh start.

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Speaker 1: He was coming out here to start over, I remember

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Speaker 1: looking at him and shaking his hand and having the

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Speaker 1: thought of Wow, he's got the most gentle eyes I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen. It took me by surprise.

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Speaker 2: She went about her business that evening, not thinking much

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Speaker 2: of it. As she started sound check that night, their

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Speaker 2: sound engineer was nowhere to be found. As the service

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Speaker 2: grew closer, April started to panic.

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Speaker 1: Next thing I know, I look in the back of

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Speaker 1: the room at the sound booth, and Joe's in the

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Speaker 1: sound booth, and I look at my guitar player and

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Speaker 1: I was like, what is he doing. My guitar player

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Speaker 1: looks back there and he is like, Oh, that's Joe.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. He knows what he's doing. He

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Speaker 1: helped build the sound system years ago.

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Speaker 2: Joe saved the day.

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Speaker 1: It was just a welcome surprise. And after that point

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Speaker 1: Joe became our fund man.

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Speaker 2: Once a month the worship team would go out to dinner.

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Speaker 1: Anytime that we would do that, he would make it

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Speaker 1: a point to sit right next to me and talk

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Speaker 1: with me. We talked a lot about God and our

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Speaker 1: relationship with God, and we got to be good friends.

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Speaker 2: As they got closer, it became clear that Joe was

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Speaker 2: interested in a romantic relationship.

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Speaker 1: He would say, Hey, can we go grab a cup

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Speaker 1: of coffee or a slice of pie? And MY response

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Speaker 1: was always like no, I'm good, Like we can go

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Speaker 1: hang out with the worship team, like we can go

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Speaker 1: to dinner with the team or with our friends. But

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Speaker 1: I was dead set against doing any one on one

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Speaker 1: dating with him.

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Speaker 2: April did not want to complicate things with her team,

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Speaker 2: Plus she was planning to leave for Australia in a

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Speaker 2: matter of months.

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Speaker 1: I knew that he had been previously married and had

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Speaker 1: kids from his first marriage.

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Speaker 2: Despite her rejections, Joe was persistent.

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Speaker 1: When I was sick, he would just show up at

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Speaker 1: my house with the bowl of soup and a get

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Speaker 1: well card.

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Speaker 2: And as time went on, his gestures became more romantic.

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Speaker 1: He would send me flowers for no reason. He would

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Speaker 1: send little notes just to say hi, like a good

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Speaker 1: morning message. So I would wake up and there would

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Speaker 1: be an email from him saying good morning, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: It made her feel special, but April was still planning

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Speaker 2: to move to Australia for Hillsong. The night before her flight,

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Speaker 2: she had to record a tape of her vocal range.

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Speaker 2: Joe offered to help make the recording.

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Speaker 1: And so I ran through all my scales, ran through,

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Speaker 1: you know, all sorts of different vocal exercises for him

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Speaker 1: to record.

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Speaker 2: Once they were done recording, April and Joe packed up

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Speaker 2: their things and made their way to the parking lot.

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Speaker 2: She would be gone for a year. It was hard

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Speaker 2: to say goodbye.

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Speaker 1: He and I were standing by the cars just chatting,

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Speaker 1: and as we're talking, all of a sudden, I just

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Speaker 1: kissed him, Like there was no thought to it. I

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Speaker 1: just leaned in and kissed him.

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Speaker 2: It was so out of character for April. She surprised herself.

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Speaker 1: And I was just shaking. I was like, I'm so sorry,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know why I did that. And then

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Speaker 1: the next thing I know, he's kissing me. It was

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Speaker 1: one of those kisses that just kind of made your

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Speaker 1: knees vocal.

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Speaker 2: The kiss was electric, in part because they both knew

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Speaker 2: April was about to leave the country.

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Speaker 1: And then he was like okay, and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm good, Like we're good. And I said, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what's going to happen because I am leaving, but

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Speaker 1: we'll stay in touch. The next morning, I got on

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Speaker 1: a plane and went to Sydney.

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Speaker 2: When she got there, she jumped right into school. Hillsong

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Speaker 2: College is well known for their worship and vocational courses.

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Speaker 2: For April being there was a dream come true.

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Speaker 1: They had this program where you would get all the

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Speaker 1: music theory, learn about worship history, music history within the

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Speaker 1: church itself, as well as leadership training. I loved every

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Speaker 1: moment of it. Lives breathed eight school.

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Speaker 2: April thought that when she arrived in Sydney she'd forget

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Speaker 2: about Joe, but she didn't. She found her thoughts drifting

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Speaker 2: to him and what he was doing back in San Diego.

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Speaker 1: He was working at seven eleven and using his money

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Speaker 1: to get phone cards, so every single day he was

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Speaker 1: calling me. So we spent a lot of time on

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Speaker 1: the phone, which forced us to really learn how to

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Speaker 1: communicate with each other.

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Speaker 2: On those long phone calls, they learned a lot about

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Speaker 2: each other. In many ways, they were opposites.

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Speaker 1: I was always so serious and he had the ability

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Speaker 1: to really make me laugh and just enjoy the moment.

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Speaker 1: He made life fun.

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Speaker 2: Joe helped her relax. For the whole year she was

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Speaker 2: in Australia, their attraction evolved. The distance brought them even

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Speaker 2: closer When April flew back to the States, Joe surprised

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Speaker 2: her by picking her up at the airport.

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Speaker 1: We're driving back and he pulls off at this rest

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Speaker 1: stop and it's a beautiful overlook that overlooks the Pacific

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Speaker 1: Go in San Diego. It was a beautiful day, like

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Speaker 1: the sun which He's standing behind me with his arms

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Speaker 1: around me, and we're just talking and he's pointing out

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Speaker 1: into the water and he was like, can you see

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Speaker 1: that boat out there? And I was like, no, I

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Speaker 1: don't see the boat. He's like, take a moment, close

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Speaker 1: your eyes, and when you open your eyes, I want

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Speaker 1: you to fixate on where my fingers are pointing. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: got it. And so I'm standing there with my eyes closed,

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Speaker 1: and then he says, okay, open them, and when I do,

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Speaker 1: his hand is in front of me with a ring

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Speaker 1: box and this beautiful Marquis cut diamond ring is in

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Speaker 1: the middle of it.

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Speaker 2: April stared at Joe dumbfounded.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, would you marry me? And I said yes.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm in love with this guy. And he

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Speaker 1: has spent so much time talking to me while I've

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Speaker 1: been gone, and it just felt right. I was so happy,

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Speaker 1: and I just I had felt so safe and loved that.

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Speaker 1: It was like, yeah, this was my person.

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Speaker 2: Because they had gotten to know each other from Afar,

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Speaker 2: their love story unfolded in a backwards way.

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Speaker 1: After the proposal. We go on our first official date.

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Speaker 1: We went to finding Nemo.

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Speaker 2: Even though they didn't have a lot of money, they

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Speaker 2: found ways to have dates and just enjoy each other's company.

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Speaker 1: We would go for a walk on the beach, or

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Speaker 1: we would go someplace and just kind of sit and

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Speaker 1: have coffee together. Anything that we could do cheaply we

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Speaker 1: would do, going and splitting a meal somewhere. We took

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Speaker 1: opportunity to just try and spend time together when we could.

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Speaker 1: It was just our own little world at the time.

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Speaker 2: They met each other's families and talked about what they

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Speaker 2: wanted for their future. Joe had three kids from his

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Speaker 2: first marriage. They lived with their mom out of state.

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Speaker 2: Joe didn't want any more kids, and April was on

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Speaker 2: the same page.

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Speaker 1: Kids were never something that I really thought about.

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Speaker 2: What mattered more to April was how her parents saw Joe.

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Speaker 2: Her mom embraced him right away, but her dad was reluctant.

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Speaker 1: My dad was a bit harder of a nut to crack.

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Speaker 1: He was always suspicious of him. There were stories that

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Speaker 1: Joe would tell and my dad would just be like,

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Speaker 1: something doesn't add up.

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Speaker 2: After dating long distance between California and Australia, April and

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Speaker 2: Joe engaged. They were thrilled, but April's dad had some

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Speaker 2: reservations about Joe. He gave him a pass because his

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Speaker 2: daughter loved him, and in May of two thousand and four,

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Speaker 2: April and Joe got married.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want anything elaborate. I just wanted a simple wedding,

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Speaker 1: and we had the wedding at a local hotel that

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Speaker 1: had just opened up their wedding garden. Our friends and

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Speaker 1: family were there. It was beautiful.

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Speaker 2: They wrote their own vowels.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't the typical you know, I'm going to love, honor,

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Speaker 1: and obey you. It was I want to support who

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Speaker 1: you are as a person and who God has created

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Speaker 1: you to be.

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Speaker 2: After the wedding, the couple moved into their first apartment.

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Speaker 2: It was the first time April lived with a partner.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it was a time of a lot of firsts.

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Speaker 1: I'd never been with a man period, Like I'd never

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Speaker 1: had sex until him, so he was my first, so

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Speaker 1: there was a little bit of am I doing things right?

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Speaker 1: Am I pleasing him? Am I making him happy? I

235
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Speaker 1: can't remember the first year. I would wake up in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night and almost freak out because

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Speaker 1: there was a boy in my bed.

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Speaker 2: After thirty years of being independent, it was a big

239
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 2: adjustment to live with a man. April quickly realized.

240
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Speaker 1: I'm doing all the dishes. I'm doing the cooking, cleaning, laundry,

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Speaker 1: taking the trash out.

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Speaker 2: She also noticed a pattern whenever she confronted Joe, he.

243
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Speaker 1: Would step up for a couple of weeks, he would

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Speaker 1: take the trash out without me asking, he would clean

245
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: up his own dishes, and then it would slowly slip

246
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Speaker 1: back into me taking care of everything again.

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Speaker 2: It was disappointing, but Joe was still the same guy

248
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Speaker 2: she'd fallen in love with. He always took time to

249
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Speaker 2: make her feel seen.

250
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 1: He was still bringing flowers just because if I had

251
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Speaker 1: a rough day, we would go grab a pizza from

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Speaker 1: the pizza place on the corner, just little things that

253
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Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, it's still very thoughtful, and yeah,

254
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Speaker 1: we've got this tension of I'm doing everything, but he's

255
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Speaker 1: still taking care of me.

256
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 2: Eventually, the couple both found jobs at a local ministry.

257
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 2: Joe worked in their video department.

258
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 1: She was editing videos and getting everything ready to go

259
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:36,480
Speaker 1: on to actual TV. I worked in the prayer center,

260
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Speaker 1: and it was where people could call in that needed

261
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 1: prayer and they could get a hold of a live

262
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 1: person that would take time to sit and listen to

263
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Speaker 1: them and just pray with them and talk with them.

264
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,920
Speaker 2: In two thousand and nine, five years into their marriage,

265
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 2: Joe got a call from his first wife. She needed

266
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 2: support with the kids, and she asked if Joe's teenage

267
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 2: son could come live with them. April agreed. She welcomed

268
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 2: him into their home and into their family.

269
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,120
Speaker 1: He was a great kid. He really wasn't any trouble

270
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Speaker 1: and he lived with us through his entire high school

271
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 1: years and played football for the high school and all that.

272
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Speaker 1: The kid was tenderhearted, he just wanted to do right.

273
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 2: It was a really successful arrangement. A few years later,

274
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 2: Joe's daughter came to stay with them as well. However,

275
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 2: it was a lot more challenging. Joe's daughter was going

276
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 2: through a difficult time and Joe was too.

277
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 1: He had been through bouts of unemployment before, but it

278
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 1: was while she was here that he went through the

279
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 1: longest period of unemployment of about two years. And so

280
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 1: during that time, I'm the soul breadwinner. Joe began to

281
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 1: drink and his drinking was escalating.

282
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 2: It was too much pressure on April to support the

283
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 2: whole family.

284
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 1: I told him that I was done. I couldn't do

285
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 1: this anymore.

286
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,200
Speaker 2: They weren't able to provide Joe's daughter with the support

287
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 2: she needed, so she went home to Texas. Joe was upset.

288
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,119
Speaker 2: He felt like he failed his daughter and in the

289
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 2: process lost her too. To cope, Joe threw himself into

290
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 2: his job working for their church, where he was running

291
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,960
Speaker 2: sound and helping them upgrade their audio visual capabilities. The

292
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 2: church wanted to start live streaming their service so members

293
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 2: of the congregation could watch from home.

294
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 1: She was trying to help our church get up on

295
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,479
Speaker 1: live streaming, so he would log onto this website that

296
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: had all these various different live streams.

297
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 2: On these live streaming sites, Joe would sometimes help other

298
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 2: church members troubleshoot any technical difficulties.

299
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: I would notice that every once in a while he

300
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 1: would be chatting with the young girls, not necessarily teenage girls,

301
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 1: but maybe early twenties, and I would ask what are

302
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 1: you doing and he's like, oh, I'm trying to help

303
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:13,439
Speaker 1: them get their streaming correct because their camera's fuzzy. He

304
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 1: could make it sound so logical and so reasonable.

305
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 2: It seemed a little odd to April, but she believed Joe.

306
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,879
Speaker 2: He had always been one to help out the kids

307
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 2: at church, and he took a special interest in mentoring youth.

308
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,879
Speaker 1: At our church. We had had a couple of guys

309
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 1: come in at one point that were following some of

310
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:44,199
Speaker 1: the young girls around the church, and Joe he was

311
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 1: the one that clocked it and went into leadership and

312
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: was like, these guys need to go. What they're doing

313
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 1: is sketchy. He'd always been that guy, protective of girls,

314
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 1: protective of youth.

315
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 2: April was proud of how Joe stood up for their

316
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 2: young church members. Years passed and April and Joe's relationship studied.

317
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 2: They were involved in church together, they kept watching their

318
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 2: favorite sports teams and hung out with friends. The world

319
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 2: they built together felt comfortable and grounding. Eventually, April and

320
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 2: Joe felt like they needed something to break up their

321
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 2: usual routine. They wanted to get back to their community

322
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 2: and spend time outdoors together, so they decided to volunteer

323
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 2: at a horse rescue near their house. They each took

324
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 2: on regular chores at the barn.

325
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 1: He was feeding the horses in the early mornings or

326
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 1: in the evenings, and I was involved in helping with

327
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: some of the training. This was just a real place

328
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: of bliss for me and for him, having grown up

329
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 1: in the country in Texas. He was loving it because

330
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 1: it just felt like he found home as well.

331
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,680
Speaker 2: They started getting to know the community at the horse rescue,

332
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 2: including a woman and her teenage daughter that lived on

333
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 2: the property.

334
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: The daughter would end up feeding on weekends by herself

335
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,959
Speaker 1: at night, and they'd had a couple of instances of

336
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: people trespassing at night that were kind of scary, and

337
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 1: so Joe volunteered to feed with her.

338
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 2: She was about the same age as his daughter. April

339
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: suspected Joe was projecting some of his concern for his

340
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 2: own daughter. Onted this girl at the barn.

341
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: And then there was one day where she needed to

342
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 1: go pick up a piece of equipment that her dad

343
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: was giving her, so Joe offered to take her in

344
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: one of her girlfriends to go to her Dad's and

345
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: haul it back. They left early in the morning, and

346
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: I spent the day there on the ranch.

347
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 2: April was taking a break from barn chores when she

348
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: saw one of the two teenage girls wandering up towards

349
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 2: the stable.

350
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, hey, you're back, and she

351
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: was like, what do you mean. I said, oh, well,

352
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 1: didn't you go with Joe and the other girl? And

353
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 1: she was like no, they left before I even got here.

354
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 2: It made April uncomfortable that Joe was alone with a

355
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 2: teenage girl.

356
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: I tried calling him multiple times. He never answered. It

357
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: was getting to be about six o'clock in the evening

358
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: and just him and the girl pull up. I take

359
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: one look at him and I'm just livid, like I'm

360
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: so angry.

361
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: But Joe seemed completely unbothered. He walked up to the

362
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 2: barn like nothing happened.

363
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 1: I grab him and I pull him to the side.

364
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is wrong with you? He's like what

365
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: do you mean? And I said, do you have any

366
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: idea you just spent all day with a teenage girl

367
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: alone in a vehicle.

368
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 2: April made it known Joe had broken an unspoken rule

369
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 2: all the volunteers saw Joe pulling up with this teenage

370
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 2: girl in his car. The girl's mom agreed.

371
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: Her mom put her foot down and was like, you

372
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: can no longer spend time with my daughter.

373
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 2: Joe was hurt by this. He felt like he was

374
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 2: being judged.

375
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: He was emotionally upset about not being able to spend

376
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: time with her. I rationalized, it is that he took

377
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,959
Speaker 1: this other girl and put her in the place of

378
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: his daughter, so it was like he was losing his

379
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 1: daughter all over again.

380
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 2: Around this time, their church moved into a new space

381
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: and downsized their staff. Joe lost his job. He was

382
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: really struggling. After searching for a while, he landed a

383
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 2: job working for a doctor who had a medical TV

384
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 2: show on a local network.

385
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: I had seen that show and I was like, oh, yeah,

386
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: I know who that doctor is. That's pretty cool.

387
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 2: On the morning of Joe's first day, the couple got

388
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:11,959
Speaker 2: ready for work together.

389
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: We both got in our cars. He was behind me.

390
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: I went one way and he should have turned left

391
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: at the next light, and I watched him turn right

392
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: at the next light instead of left.

393
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: April had a sinking feeling.

394
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: So I asked him about it. When I got home.

395
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: I said Hey, I saw you turn back towards the house,

396
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: and he was like, oh, yeah, I forgot something, so

397
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: I had to go back home and get it.

398
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 2: But April was skeptical.

399
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 1: Nope, something's not right. For a week he did this,

400
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: he got up, got dressed, left with me, and when

401
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: right back home.

402
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: April was convinced that Joe's new job was completely vake.

403
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: Sure enough, within a week he's telling me that the

404
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: doctor's son was going to take his job, and so

405
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: if he didn't have a job again.

406
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 2: It was unsettling. Now April was on guard, trying to

407
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: discern if Joe was telling the truth. It was starting

408
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 2: to affect her sense of certainty and trust.

409
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: She could make me feel like I was going insane.

410
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: I legitimately had moments where I was like, am I

411
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: losing my mind? He would tell me that I didn't

412
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: say things that I knew for a fact I said,

413
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 1: But then he had me second guessing myself because it

414
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: was like, well did I say that? Maybe I didn't

415
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: say that.

416
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: April knew that she shouldn't feel this way, but being

417
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 2: honest about her concerns felt like poking a sleeping beast.

418
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to deal with the confrontation that

419
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: would come from it, and I was afraid. I was

420
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: afraid of what would come out. I didn't know how

421
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,239
Speaker 1: else to move forward, other than to just bury it

422
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: and move on.

423
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: April was fighting to regain a sense of stability in

424
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: their relationship. Top of the list was getting Joe a

425
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: new job, and April had an idea.

426
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: I kept seeing these ads for driving instructors, and I

427
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: used to joke with him that I never wanted to

428
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: drive with him because he always told me what I

429
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: was doing wrong. And so I was like, you should

430
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: check that out. You love driving and you do love teaching.

431
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: Joe took her advice and reached out to the driving school.

432
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: He went through their training program with the owner. You

433
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: have to do so many hours of in car training

434
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: with another instructor background check, and so he started teaching

435
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: kids how to drive cars and he loved it.

436
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 2: And April was finding her stride at work too.

437
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: Around the same time that he got his job, I

438
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: started working for my dream company. I'm an executive business

439
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: partner and an executive assistant. It's almost more of a

440
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: chief of staff type role, you know. So it was

441
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: like it felt like things were finally turning around. I

442
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: was making good money. He was making good money, he

443
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: had a steady job. He had found something that he

444
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 1: absolutely was loving. He would come home at night just

445
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: lit up, like so excited to talk about who he

446
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: had taught and what he had taught, and watching the

447
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: light bulb of understanding go off with these kids. It

448
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: just felt like we had finally reached a point where

449
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: it was like, maybe we're going to be okay. I

450
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: felt like I could suddenly start breathing. I didn't realize

451
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: that I had been living holding my breath, waiting for

452
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: the other shoot a drop.

453
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 2: One day, April headed into the office early to prepare

454
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: for an event with her company CEO.

455
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: And as I'm pulling into our parking garage at the office,

456
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: I get a ring alert on my phone from our

457
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: doorbell camera and I was like, well, that's weird. So

458
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: I pull up the camera and I see about six

459
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: police officers at my front door. I completely freak out

460
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: because it's like, what is happening.

461
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: She immediately called Joe.

462
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: It rang and rang, and then it went to voicemail,

463
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: and I don't know what to do. I just kept

464
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: trying to call him over and over again.

465
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: Stunned, April began to drive home to figure out what

466
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: was going on.

467
00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 1: He finally calls me and tells me that police officers

468
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: and two detectives showed up with a search warrant and

469
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: they were taking all of the electronics, the computers, iPads,

470
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: apple watch, they took his work vehicle. They were seizing

471
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: all of it.

472
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: Joe told April to wait to come home because he

473
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: didn't want her car to get seized too, So April

474
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 2: pulled over at a nearby coffee shop and waited. Finally,

475
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: Joe called her and said it was okay for her

476
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: to come home. But home was far from a comforting site.

477
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: The house is just trashed. Everything is pulled out from

478
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: the bookshelves, tables are moved into the middle of the room,

479
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: laundry baskets are upended onto the bed. Everything is just

480
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: torn apart.

481
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: In the middle of their upended home stood Joe.

482
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: He's very calm, and I asked him. I was like,

483
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: did they tell you what is this about? And he

484
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: was like, no, they didn't tell me anything. They just

485
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: said that they had a search warrant. But the search

486
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: warrant doesn't say what the allegations are it doesn't say anything.

487
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: April's mind was spinning, trying to make sense of the

488
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: unsettling scene. She found herself in Logically, I'm thinking, Okay,

489
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: they took his work vehicle.

490
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: So I told him, I said, obviously it has to

491
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: do with your job. They took your car. So can

492
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: you think of anything that you might have done? Because

493
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: sometimes he would come home and say, yeah, one of

494
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: my students just she totally had an anxiety attack and

495
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: like broke down crying in the car kind of thing,

496
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: Like did you maybe hug one of your students because

497
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: you know they were upset? And he was like, no, no, nothing,

498
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything.

499
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: But the fallout was immediate.

500
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: He gets put on administratively from the company.

501
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: April and Joe were desperate to understand what the police

502
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: were doing at their house.

503
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: We made the decision to hire a pre trial attorney

504
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: to see if we could get any information on what

505
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: the allegations were or what we could do.

506
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: In the weeks that followed, April kept pressing Joe. Surely

507
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: he had to have some inkling of what was going on.

508
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: I was constantly asking him, is there anything? Can you

509
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: think of anything?

510
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: But every time the answer was no, and April wanted

511
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: to believe him. Everything had been going well since Joe

512
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: started his job as a driving instructor.

513
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: He had never once indicated that there was anything on

514
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: his job that was of concern. He had never told

515
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: me anything other than that he was referred all the

516
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: time to other students.

517
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: April was out of ideas. All she could do was

518
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: wait for answers. In the meantime, April and Joe decided

519
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 2: to move. Had started feeling too small.

520
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: So we started looking for houses and I found one

521
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: about three miles north of where we had been living

522
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: that I just fell in love with, so we signed

523
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: a lease.

524
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: Slowly they started moving boxes to their new house and

525
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: they ordered new furniture too. This place would be a

526
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: fresh start.

527
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: It was January eleventh. He was driving me to work.

528
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: We pull out of our house. We get about two

529
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: blocks from the old house and he looks at me

530
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: and he says, I think I'm getting ready to be arrested.

531
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: April snapped around to face him.

532
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: I was like, why would you say that, and he

533
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: goes well. When we pulled out from the house, two

534
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: vehicles pulled in behind us, and then a marked police

535
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: vehicle pulled in behind those two cars. Within seconds of

536
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: that coming out of his mouth, the squad car lit

537
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: us up and pulled us over.

538
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 2: April was frantic, but oddly Joe wasn't. It seemed like

539
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: he knew this moment would come.

540
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: He just very calmly handed me his cell phone, put

541
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: his hands on the steering wheel, turned the car off,

542
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: and a uniformed officer comes up to the driver's side

543
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: door tells him to unlock the door. He gets out

544
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: of the car, and I'm just sitting there very quietly

545
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: freaking out. I still have no idea what is going on.

546
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: Finally, two detectives came to the passenger side door where

547
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: April sat. One of them leaned over to talk with her.

548
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: That's when she proceeds to tell me that have been

549
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: investigating him for child molestation. He is going to be

550
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: charged with thirty two counts and that it is eleven girls,

551
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: ten of which are under the age of eighteen.

552
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: One day, when Joe was driving April to work, he

553
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: turned to her and calmly told her that he was

554
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: about to be arrested. Moments later, the cops pulled them

555
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,719
Speaker 2: over and took him out of the car. Leaving April

556
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: alone in the passenger seat, terrified and confused. Finally, a

557
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: detective told April what her husband was being arrested for.

558
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: They have been investigating him for child molestation. He is

559
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: going to be charged with thirty two counts and that

560
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: it is eleven girls, ten of which are under the

561
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 1: age of eighteen. I just went numb. My entire system

562
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: went into shock.

563
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: April didn't want to believe the detective's words. She had

564
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: long ago come to terms with her husband's flaws, but

565
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 2: she never imagined him to be a dangerous person.

566
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: My head, I was like, she might be a liar.

567
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: He might be a lousy husband. He might be lazy,

568
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: he might be all these things. He's not a child predator.

569
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: But then the detective explained to April what they found.

570
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: When they took his vehicle. Hidden underneath the steering column,

571
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: they found a small camera that would allow him to

572
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: video and take pictures of girls and their private areas,

573
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: and that they have proof of it on his computer.

574
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: The evidence was irrefutable, and there was a lot of it.

575
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: Then the detective began to ask April questions.

576
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: She's like, did you ever purchase a camera for the car?

577
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, we did. And she goes, what

578
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: did he tell you about that camera? And I said

579
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: just that he wanted to have a camera in the

580
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: vehicle to protect not only himself, but to protect the

581
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: people that he was teaching to drive.

582
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: When Joe said he was using that camera for safety,

583
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: April believed him, But in reality, the camera was part

584
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: of Joe's twisted crimes. He'd been sexually abusing young girls

585
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: who were his driving students. He did it while they

586
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: were driving his driver's ed car was a trap for

587
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: the girls defending themselves, even just taking their hands off

588
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: the wheel could mean risking their life. On top of that,

589
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: Joe videotaped the attacks and saved those videos to his

590
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: personal devices so he could rewatch them. Once one girl

591
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: came forward, it was like a dan broke. April was

592
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: in shock, and the detective could see that. She told

593
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: April that she would follow up with her in a

594
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: few days time. The police drove away with Joe in

595
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 2: the backseat. April sat in her car, the silence ringing

596
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: in her ears. She didn't want to be alone with

597
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: her thoughts, so she started making calls.

598
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: I made a phone call to the attorney told them

599
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: what happened. I tried calling my dad, tried calling my parents,

600
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: and they weren't awake yet. Then I call a friend

601
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: of mine and I'm like, I need you and your

602
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: husband to come help me because I don't know what

603
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: to do, and I need somebody here can think because

604
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: I can't think right now. So they met me at

605
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: the new house, and I felt like I was spending

606
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: the day just in limbell. I'm waiting to hear anything

607
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: from Joe or the attorney. I'm waiting to hear from

608
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: my pastor. I'm just waiting.

609
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: She didn't know what she should do next.

610
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: It was like everything in my life just exploded all

611
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: at once. I was scrambling to try and grab any

612
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: pieces that I could hold on to to just try

613
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: and make sense of what was happening, but there was

614
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: nothing to grab a hold of.

615
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: Finally, her pastor called her back.

616
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: He's like, April, why did I just get a phone

617
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: call from a reporter. They're asking me about Joe.

618
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 2: Joe's arrest was all over the news.

619
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: Within four hours. The San Diego Police Department did a

620
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: press release where they put his name out there. They

621
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: listed every single charge, everything from harassment of a minor

622
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: to sexual assault, and it went across the news nationwide.

623
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: His brother, who lives in Texas, heard about it before

624
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: I could even call him.

625
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: April's phone was ringing all day, and one of those

626
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: calls was from Joe in jail.

627
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 1: In that phone call, he was just very calm. There

628
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: was no emotion. He was just like, they've charged me

629
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: as a child molester. It was just almost very matter

630
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: of fact.

631
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: April knew the facts of the case, she decided to

632
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,439
Speaker 2: give him one chance to be honest with her.

633
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: I asked him, is any of this true? And he's like, no, no,

634
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: none of it is true. I'm like, Joe, it's eleven girls.

635
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: He's like, I know, but you know, no, it's not true.

636
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: She knew he was lying. That Tuesday was Joe's arraignment.

637
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 2: April decided to go. It would be hard to see him,

638
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: but she needed to see what he had done and

639
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: she wanted to know what was going to happen to him.

640
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: When I went into the courtroom, I had to go

641
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: and give them my name and who I was there

642
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: for in my relationship to the person that I was

643
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: there for. So I told him, I said, here's my name,

644
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm here for Richard JESSEP. Banks. I'm his spouse. And

645
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: then the woman that was right behind me, she gave

646
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: her name. She looked at me. I looked at her,

647
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: and she said, I'm here for Richard Joe Banks. I'm

648
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: the mother of one of his and she stopped. She

649
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: looked at me again, and I said victims, and she

650
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: goes victims. I looked at her and I just started

651
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: crying and I said, I am so sorry. I had

652
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: no idea that any of this was happening. I didn't know,

653
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: and I'm so sorry for the damage. And she came

654
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: over to me and she just hugged me and she said,

655
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: I know, and it's gonna be okay. We both just

656
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: stood there hugging each other and just sobbing.

657
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: Then the arraignment got underway.

658
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: The DA stands up and she talks through how many

659
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: charges there are, and then he goes through every single

660
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: one of the girls. Basically, he doesn't name any of them.

661
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 1: He just uses their initials. But he's like, you will

662
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: not speak contact see each of the girls. As says

663
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: I understood. He says, yes, sir, I understand. That was

664
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: the one and only time that I went to court

665
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: for him, because after that, it was like, I'm done.

666
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm done.

667
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 2: April focused her energy on moving into her house, and

668
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: suddenly the fact that Joe had never called this place

669
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: home felt like a breath.

670
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: Of fresh air. I spent the rest of that week

671
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: getting everything set up in my new house, with all

672
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,959
Speaker 1: new furniture that he's never sat on, never touched, never

673
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: slept in.

674
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: But she still had all of Joe's belongings.

675
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: I remembered that I still had his cell phone, and

676
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if there's anything here that

677
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: I need to see. So I started looking through it

678
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: and came across a folder that was the same name

679
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: as the video camera that we had purchased for his

680
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: work vehicle. So I pull up those files and I

681
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: started looking through them, and sure enough, there's pictures of

682
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: him touching girls. I just got sick and I threw

683
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: the phone. I had now officially seen for myself what

684
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: he had done, and I just like, I just was sick.

685
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: I was sick.

686
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: The next day, April had dinner with her parents and

687
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: told them that her marriage with Joe was over.

688
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: My dad, he looks at me, he goes, I want

689
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: to be clear You're getting a divorce, and I said, yes,

690
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: I am getting a divorce. Both my mom and dad

691
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: were so relieved because they had spent years loving Joe

692
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: and really taking him under their wing and treating him

693
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: like family. But for both of them, there had always

694
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: been this underlying mistrust that I never knew about. I

695
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: never knew they had that.

696
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: As she disentangled herself from Joe, more and more lies

697
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: began to emerge. April and Joe had been planning to

698
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: take a cruise to celebrate their twentieth anniversary. She'd been

699
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: giving him money every month out of her paycheck and

700
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: he was putting it towards the cruise. But after the arrest,

701
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 2: I went.

702
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: To cancel our twentieth anniversary cruise. He had told me

703
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: he had put close to three thousand dollars down, so

704
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: I'm expecting to get some of that back. But he

705
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: had only put two hundred dollars down.

706
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 2: So what was he doing with that money from April's paychecks?

707
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: She isn't sure, but in the course of his sentencing,

708
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 2: she found out he was giving money to the girls

709
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 2: he sexually abused.

710
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: She was paying students or students' families when a student

711
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: would pass their driver's test. It was presented as a

712
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: congratulatory gift, and some of the girls that he was

713
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: giving money to were ones that he violated, but I

714
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: personally think that he was using it in some way

715
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: as a bribe to keep them quiet.

716
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: In the end, Joe pled guilty in exchange for a

717
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: lighter sentence. He received five years in state prison. Once

718
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: he was sent away, April made one final appointment to

719
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 2: speak with Joe face to face.

720
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be the last time

721
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: that I would see him, So I went to the prison,

722
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: sat down across from him, and I looked at him

723
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: and I said, do you understand what you've done?

724
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 2: Joe stared blankly back at her.

725
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: He just very calmly and quizzically looked at me. He said,

726
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: but why would they continue to refer me? And my

727
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: job just dropped. It was like, so that made it

728
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: okay because you were still being referred. You were probably

729
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: being referred by their parents, who had no idea that

730
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: you were doing this to them.

731
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 2: Joe had no remorse. He spoke about his crimes like

732
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 2: he was discussing the weather.

733
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: That's when I realized there was something seriously disconnected something

734
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: seriously wrong with him, because what he did was absolutely horrific,

735
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: and there's nothing that indicates that he understands, or is remorseful,

736
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: or has any ounce of understanding of what he has done.

737
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: April's community rallied around her.

738
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,959
Speaker 1: I had a friend stay with me for about three

739
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: months during that time, just so I wasn't alone. I've

740
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: got some incredible friends that I've made over the years

741
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: that I didn't realize how incredible they were until this.

742
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: She had a great support system, but there was a

743
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: lot of internal work. She had a face on her own.

744
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: During that time. I'm going through a lot of therapy.

745
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: I was seeing a therapist at the time about three

746
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: times a week. I needed to talk to somebody that

747
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: wasn't emotionally connected to any of it.

748
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: Slowly, she began to unpack the emotions she had been carrying.

749
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: There was so much grieving happening, Grieving the life that

750
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 1: I thought I had, grieving the marriage that I wish

751
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 1: I had had, grieving the marriage I did have.

752
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: But underneath the grief was something else, so.

753
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: Much anger, anger for how I was treated. Still to

754
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: this day, I get so angry because I feel like

755
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: his victims deserve so much much more than what they're getting,

756
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: so much more. He took a plea deal, and the

757
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: junch gave him five years with time served. Like it's

758
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: not fair. It's not fair to the girls. They deserve

759
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: so much more than that.

760
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: Because they reminders, the full names of Joe's victims weren't released.

761
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: This was to protect the girl's privacy. While she has

762
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: never met them personally, April thinks of them often.

763
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: I don't know who his victims are, but if for

764
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: some reason any of them ever listen, I would say

765
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: that I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for what you've

766
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: been through. If I had known, I would have done

767
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: everything within my power to stop it.

768
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: Since his arrest, the number of known victims has risen

769
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: to eighteen. Joe could be out of prison as soon

770
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: as spring of twenty twenty six. But I'll never have

771
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 2: a place in April's world again.

772
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: I have no need to see him. I don't talk

773
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: to him. I have nothing to do with him.

774
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 2: At this point, April has been busy building a life

775
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: that brings her joy.

776
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: It's just me and my dog and my cat. I'm

777
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 1: living by myself. My home is my sanctuary. Now I'm

778
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: rediscovering reading. I'm getting to explore new foods. I've gotten

779
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: to travel quite a bit because there are places that

780
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go to and he never did.

781
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm finding a whole new sense of freedom.

782
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: What April endured with Joe has forced her to reckon

783
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 2: with what it means to truly know someone. We end

784
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: every weekly episode with the same question, why do you

785
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: want to share your story?

786
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about it because finding this podcast

787
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: was a huge part of what helped me to hear

788
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: experiences that so closely mirror your own. There's something different

789
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: about that. I suddenly realized that I wasn't alone. Some

790
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: people have the uncanny ability to hide the deepest, darkest

791
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: parts of themselves from those that are closest to them,

792
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: and sometimes maybe even from themselves. There's no way to

793
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: ever really truly know a person, and I just have

794
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: to resign myself to the fact that this was a

795
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: part of him that he was never going to allow

796
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: anyone to see until it was too late.

797
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I'm in.

798
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 3: Shock and disbelief, like just nauseatingly sick the reality. I

799
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 3: guess us is slowly sinking in that my life is

800
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 3: all a lie. He's in the kitchen going to the

801
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 3: coffee machine to make himself an espresso.

802
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 1: And he literally looks at me and shrugs, and he's like, So.

803
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

804
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email

805
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod

806
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at

807
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram

808
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,

809
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at

810
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.

811
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 2: One way to show support is by subscribing to our

812
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and

813
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 2: review Betrayal. Five star reviews go along a big thank

814
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production

815
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 2: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in

816
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 2: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by

817
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me

818
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced by Olivia

819
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 2: Hewitt and Monique Leboard, with additional production from Ben Fetterman.

820
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 2: Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali

821
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 2: Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio.

822
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 2: Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by

823
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 2: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by my Music and For

824
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

825
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts