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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you get tired of answering questions? Oh? Never,

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Speaker 1: I love our listener questions. I just mean questions in general,

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Speaker 1: like about the universe, about your personal life, poor like

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Speaker 1: this question you're asking me now from your podcast host partner. No,

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Speaker 1: people ask me questions all the time, but it's fun

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Speaker 1: to answer them. You know, sometimes I wish I got

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Speaker 1: asked more science questions, you know, sometimes with questions are

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Speaker 1: more prosaic. But about your kids? And your kids constantly

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Speaker 1: pester you with science questions too, I wish they asked more.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's the occasional like what does the black

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Speaker 1: hole look like? But more often it's like can I

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Speaker 1: have more dessert? Or how could my sister just to

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Speaker 1: use the iPad more than I do? And the answer

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Speaker 1: is always the same. Nobody knows that we have no idea.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of six questions too, aren't they? Like? Um,

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Speaker 1: they're about time? Who gets more time on the iPad?

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Speaker 1: Or matter who gets more desserted? Exactly? And what about you?

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Speaker 1: Your kids ask you science questions? Uh? They do, yeah,

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty often. I think my kids, um like to

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Speaker 1: read and sometimes they kind of make connections in their

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Speaker 1: head and they ask me questions. And what do you

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Speaker 1: do when they ask you questions if you don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer. What do you mean you assume that I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answers. I often don't know the answer,

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Speaker 1: so I assume not everybody has all the answers. Sure, no,

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Speaker 1: Well I do my best. I guess um and maybe baby. Mainly,

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Speaker 1: I just tell them to send their questions into our

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Speaker 1: podcast so that you can answer them. That sounds good.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to be your backup science parent. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's the whole point of befriending as physicists if not

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Speaker 1: to get these questions answered? I knew, just would you

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Speaker 1: want to be friends with the physicists? I knew? I

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Speaker 1: felt used. Now I know why. Hi am Jorge. I'm

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Speaker 1: a cartoonist and the creator of PhD Comics. Hi I'm Daniel.

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Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist and a backup science parent for

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Speaker 1: many people out there. And welcome to our podcast, Daniel

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Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio in which we take funny, weird, amazing, crazy things

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Speaker 1: about the universe and explain them to you so that

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Speaker 1: you can explain them to your kids or your parents

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Speaker 1: or just sit them down with with our podcast as

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Speaker 1: free babysitting. That's right. Yeah, so we we love answering questions,

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Speaker 1: right Daniel. Oh yeah, it's really fun because we can

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Speaker 1: think about the universe and we can talk about what's

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Speaker 1: exciting for us. But the most is interesting is answering

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Speaker 1: questions from listeners because it reveals what they understand and

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Speaker 1: what they own't and what they're wondering about, what all

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Speaker 1: those collective brains out there are cognating on. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: if you don't know this already, we actually answer people's questions.

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Speaker 1: If we have an Instagram account, on Twitter account, on

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Speaker 1: Facebook account, and if you post a question, well, first

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Speaker 1: of all, follow us there, but if you post a question,

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Speaker 1: most likely Daniel will answer the question, right Daniel, or

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Speaker 1: at least maybe one of your regrets, that's right. No,

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Speaker 1: I'll answer questions via email or Twitter or Facebook. I'll

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Speaker 1: be honest, though, I don't use Instagram, so all those

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Speaker 1: people asking physics questions on Instagram are just questioning into

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Speaker 1: the void. Sorry, folks. The question is does anyone use

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Speaker 1: Instagram anymore? Now that I don't, I think the question

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Speaker 1: is who doesn't use Instagram these days? Just me, I guess,

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Speaker 1: I guess just physicists, you know. But it's wonderful. We

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Speaker 1: hear questions from all over the world, and sometimes there

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Speaker 1: are questions people just had in their minds they wanted

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Speaker 1: to know the answers to, and those are wonderful. But

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Speaker 1: also sometimes the questions are in reaction to something we

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Speaker 1: talked about on the show. You know, on the show,

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Speaker 1: we do our best to think, what's confusing about this?

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Speaker 1: How do we explain this? How do we make something clear?

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Speaker 1: But we never can completely succeed. So it's really nice

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Speaker 1: to have feedback when people say you said X, but

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Speaker 1: then I that made me wonder why, and that helps

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Speaker 1: us be more clear in the future. So please send

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Speaker 1: us feedback, send us questions, send us presents, send us gags,

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Speaker 1: send us whatever you have at Mostly you send us

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Speaker 1: money please, I mean, how much do you think podcasting? Me? Podcaster?

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Speaker 1: That's right? And sometimes people send us serious questions about

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Speaker 1: the universe. And then sometimes people send us silly questions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like what's been a silly question? All right, here's a

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Speaker 1: question we got on Twitter from Patrick Nouman. He says,

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Speaker 1: Dear Daniel and Jorge, I've got a question that really

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Speaker 1: want to get answered. How heavy would a blob or

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Speaker 1: banana bee of all of the photons in sun? And

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Speaker 1: how big would it be? Oh? Interesting, So you took

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Speaker 1: all the photons in the sun and somehow, what do

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Speaker 1: you think, transformed them into a banana or put them

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Speaker 1: in the space shaped them into a banana? What do

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Speaker 1: you think I actually started trying to work on this question.

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Speaker 1: At first, I thought, well, how many photons are in

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Speaker 1: the sun, right, like, is that a number? Um? You know,

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty tough. But it turns out you can

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Speaker 1: do a rough calculation and the sun creates ten to

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Speaker 1: the forty five photons per second. That's ten with that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of photons, a lot of like trillion, billy

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Speaker 1: busily but gillions, yes, exactly, billions and yeah, exactly. But

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Speaker 1: not all those photons escape the sun. You know, the

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Speaker 1: sun is a huge ball of plas and most of

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Speaker 1: the stuff that's made by the Sun is then just

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Speaker 1: reabsorbed by the Sun, and so only things that actually

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Speaker 1: penetrate leave the Sun and hate your eyeballs arrive here

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Speaker 1: on Earth. That's a tiny fraction what comes out of

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Speaker 1: the Sun. But anyway, let's say you had ten to

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Speaker 1: the forty five photons. Okay, that's a huge amount of

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Speaker 1: energy um. And then this question is interesting. He said,

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Speaker 1: how big would that be? Right? Like if you had

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Speaker 1: a pile of tending the forty five photons, right? How well?

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Speaker 1: How how how close together can you cram them in? Maybe? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that's really interesting because there's no limit on how

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Speaker 1: close you can cram photons together. That's not true ordinary

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Speaker 1: matter like electrons and other particles. These things are fermions,

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Speaker 1: and fermions are different from photons and other kind of

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Speaker 1: particles that we call bosons because fermions have to have

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Speaker 1: different quantum states. No two of them can be in

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Speaker 1: the same quantum state. They can literally be on top

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Speaker 1: of each other. That's impossible, that's right. They have to

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Speaker 1: have some difference, like you can have two electrons in

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Speaker 1: the same level of energy in a in an atom,

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Speaker 1: but then they have different have to have different spins

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Speaker 1: or something different about them, and so fer meons have

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Speaker 1: to be distinguishable, whereas bosons, these are particles with integer

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Speaker 1: spin like a photon. They can be right on top

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Speaker 1: of each other. They can be exactly the same place,

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Speaker 1: have the same momentum, had the same everything. I feel

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Speaker 1: like the silly question is is gotten a little seriously Yeah,

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Speaker 1: serious physics, yea, even silly questions reveals something interesting about

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Speaker 1: the universe. And so you can have ten to the

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Speaker 1: forty five photons on the head of a pin, basically

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Speaker 1: right or on top of each other. You're saying, yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: all on top of each other in a tiny, tiny space.

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Speaker 1: So thank you Patrick for sending in that hilarious question.

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Speaker 1: It really made us think, and there really is some

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Speaker 1: physics in that question, even in silly questions. Well, we

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Speaker 1: do have three questions today from listeners, and so that

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Speaker 1: is the topic of today's podcast. To be on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: we'll be talking about listener questions five point five point

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Speaker 1: one five point one because we because we just answered

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Speaker 1: Patrick's questions, so we got to add a little that's right.

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Speaker 1: We're part way through this episode already. Um, that's right.

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Speaker 1: We'll be answering questions about electrons, about space, about stars,

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Speaker 1: about black holes, questions from far away, and questions from

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Speaker 1: surprisingly nearby. Yeah, and we might even know the answer

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Speaker 1: to some of these questions this time, and if we don't,

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Speaker 1: will speculate hilariously. All right, let's jump right into it. Daniel, there,

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Speaker 1: Our first question today is from this really pretty cool guy,

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Speaker 1: fun guy, one of maybe one of my favorite people,

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Speaker 1: has a great dad. Yeah, so this is a question

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Speaker 1: from Oliver from southern California. What if for whole solar

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Speaker 1: system is in a black hole and we don't notice? Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a deep question. His voice sounds a little familiar

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Speaker 1: to me. Yeah. What a what a smart sounding little kid.

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Speaker 1: He sounds like he might grow up to be a cartoonist.

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Speaker 1: Well not if he's that smart, hopefully. So yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: my son who just asked that question in and he

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Speaker 1: just turned to me one day, Well, what happened? What?

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Speaker 1: He was reading our book? So we, Daniel and I

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Speaker 1: wrote a book called We Have No Idea, A Guide

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Speaker 1: to the Unknown Universe, available now in Amazon dot com.

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Speaker 1: And and you can verify it's been read by at

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Speaker 1: least one person since your son is reading it. That's right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. He's under age, but he still counts as

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Speaker 1: a person. He's nine years old, and so he's been

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Speaker 1: reading our book and I always kind of wonder how

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Speaker 1: much of it he's getting. You know, he's nine, he's

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Speaker 1: in third grade. Um, but he seems to be enjoying it,

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Speaker 1: and he keeps reading it, and so one day he

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Speaker 1: just turned to me and he asked me this question, right,

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Speaker 1: and what do you think is behind the question? What

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Speaker 1: do you think he's wondering? Explain the question to me?

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Speaker 1: Even explain my son do a deep dive. If I

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Speaker 1: knew that answer, Daniel, if I could explain my son,

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Speaker 1: my parenting experience would be so much. You know, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting. One part of his question says,

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Speaker 1: what if our whole solar system is in a black hole? Cool? Fascinating, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But then he says, and we don't don't even notice?

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Speaker 1: Like I think that taps into you know, is the

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Speaker 1: universe different from how we expected? Is it possible that

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Speaker 1: we think we're living in universe X, but we're actually

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Speaker 1: living in universe? Why? You know? I think he was

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Speaker 1: probably kind of reading about black holes and he just

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Speaker 1: kind of wondered, like, what what if? What if we're

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Speaker 1: inside of a black hole? Is that possible? Like could

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Speaker 1: the universe? Or or like could could a solar system

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Speaker 1: exists inside of a black hole? And you know we

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Speaker 1: don't even know it? Yeah, And I think there's something

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Speaker 1: wonderful there about the feeling that maybe, you know, the

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Speaker 1: universe could be revealed to be totally different from what

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Speaker 1: you expected, because that's precisely happened a lot of times

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Speaker 1: in history, right, we thought, oh, the universe works this way. Nope,

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Speaker 1: it's totally different from what you imagined. And those are

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Speaker 1: the best moments in physics. So to hear your son

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Speaker 1: like sort of wondering if he's coming to that realization

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Speaker 1: him self, or wondering if this kind of realization is

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Speaker 1: around the corner, that's fantastic. He's been bitten by the

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Speaker 1: physics bug, so be careful. Oh no, he's gonna be

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Speaker 1: like Spider Man. Well that's only if he's bitten by

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Speaker 1: a radioactive physicist. Okay, radioactive. Well I grew up in

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Speaker 1: Los Alamos, so maybe I'm especially radioactive. But I'll do

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Speaker 1: my best not to not to about your son. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but let's break it down. Um, it's interesting question. And

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Speaker 1: you know, something that's important to think about is sort

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Speaker 1: of the size of a black hole, like, could our

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Speaker 1: entire solar system fit into a black hole? Well? Right,

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Speaker 1: the size of a black hole is really we can

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Speaker 1: usually consider that to be the size of the event

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Speaker 1: horizon that's the point, right, the black style. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: the point return. Look at a black hole, it would

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Speaker 1: look like a black sort of sphere, and so the

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Speaker 1: size of that sphere, that's the size of the black yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And if you go past that point, you can't escape, right.

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Speaker 1: And nobody knows what's inside of a black hole, but

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Speaker 1: we know how to calculate the size of the horizon.

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Speaker 1: It's determined just by the amount of stuff in the

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Speaker 1: black hole. So the more mass in the black hole,

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Speaker 1: the stronger the gravitational pull. The farther away it can

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Speaker 1: grab stuff and never let go, right, So the size

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Speaker 1: of the black hole is determined by its mass. So

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Speaker 1: how much stuff is in our solar system? Well, basically

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Speaker 1: the first approximation our solar system is just a soun.

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Speaker 1: Like the rest of the stuff in the solar system Jupiter, Mars,

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Speaker 1: me you hamsters, all that stuff is negligible. It's a

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Speaker 1: tiny fraction of the mass of the solar system. So

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Speaker 1: basically you can ask, like, if you had a black

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Speaker 1: hole with the mass of our Sun, how far away

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Speaker 1: would the event horizon B would it be out past

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Speaker 1: the edge of the black of the solar system? Is

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Speaker 1: it possible to fit a solar system in a black

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Speaker 1: hole that has the mass of our Sun. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of the way I interpret the question. So you're interpreting

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Speaker 1: the question as could our solar system be a black hole? Yeah? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: Could we be inside a black hole right now? Is

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Speaker 1: there enough room in a black hole with the mass

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Speaker 1: of the Sun to fit the entire solar system? So

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Speaker 1: could we be in a hole where the only thing

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Speaker 1: inside of it is our solar system? Yeah? Exactly exactly

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Speaker 1: is how you're interrupting the question. And the answer to

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Speaker 1: that is no, Because a black hole that has only

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Speaker 1: the mass of our sun, the event horizon would only

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Speaker 1: be three kilometers from the center of the Sun, and

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Speaker 1: so that definitely wouldn't be big enough to have the

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Speaker 1: whole solar system in it, because the solar system is

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Speaker 1: a lot more than three kilometers. It's one billion kilometers wide.

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Speaker 1: So we couldn't be in a black hole where the

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Speaker 1: only thing in it was our solar system. But is

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Speaker 1: it possible that we are that our solar system is

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Speaker 1: inside of somebody else's black hole? You know what I mean? Like,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's a black hole out there with a lot

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Speaker 1: of mass inside of it and we are just inside

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Speaker 1: of the event horizon of that black hole floating around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's possible. Right, Let's let's consider that for a moment. So,

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Speaker 1: what if there's a really ends blobs somewhere else sort

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Speaker 1: of nearby, and that makes a black hole that's big

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Speaker 1: enough to encompass us, and we're inside that black hole

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Speaker 1: right right right, Well that's possible, but it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: imagine because such a huge mass would have a big

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Speaker 1: effect on us. You know, if there was a like

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Speaker 1: if there's a really big mass somewhere else inside our

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Speaker 1: Solar system next to the Sun, like an invisible huge

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Speaker 1: blob of dark matter, that that made their enough mass

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Speaker 1: so that the black hole was big enough, we would

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Speaker 1: definitely notice that that would affect the orbit of the planets.

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Speaker 1: What if there was another big mass kind of far

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Speaker 1: away but close enough that we were still inside the

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Speaker 1: event horizon, Well, you're talking about still really strong gravity.

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Speaker 1: So it's hard to imagine having some enormously powerful gravitational

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Speaker 1: attractor nearby and not having it disturbed like the orbits

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Speaker 1: of the planets or even just tossing of baseballs and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. So I think if you were

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Speaker 1: inside a black hole that was big enough to hold

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Speaker 1: a solar system, it would have to have a huge mass,

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Speaker 1: and that mass would definitely be noticeable. It would affect

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Speaker 1: the way things move on Earth, would it, though, Because

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Speaker 1: you know, like um so so our our solar system

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Speaker 1: is moving around a galaxy, right, Like, a galaxy has

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Speaker 1: a lot of mass and um and it's huge, and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot there's a huge black hole in the

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Speaker 1: center of the galaxy, but it's not really affecting us

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Speaker 1: in a local level, right, Like that gravity is kind

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Speaker 1: of spinning us around the galaxy, but it's not really

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Speaker 1: changing the orbits of the planets around the Sun, that's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that black hole in the center of the galaxy

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Speaker 1: is really massive and it's pretty big, but it's also

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Speaker 1: super duper duper duper far away. Right. Any black hole

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Speaker 1: that's either near enough to include us or far away

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Speaker 1: but huge enough to include us still would definitely affect

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Speaker 1: the gravitational poll But you know, I haven't done the calculation.

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Speaker 1: There is one configuration I imagine though. Imagine our entire

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Speaker 1: solar system and then it's surrounded by some enormously dense

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Speaker 1: sphere of material. Okay, if you're inside a sphere of material,

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Speaker 1: then the gravitational pull of that stuff doesn't affect you

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Speaker 1: at all, right, because it all balances out. Is enough

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Speaker 1: stuff on the left to balance the stuff on the right.

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Speaker 1: Just like that episode we talked about where you jump

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Speaker 1: inside the Earth. Once you get to the center of

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Speaker 1: the Earth, is no gravitational force from the stuff around you. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: if you have to spear a super dense material surrounding

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Speaker 1: the Solar System, right, then that might be enough to

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Speaker 1: create a black hole, right that we would be inside of.

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Speaker 1: We wouldn't feel the gravitational force because we would be

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Speaker 1: inside all the stuff. It would be all around us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, but they have to

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Speaker 1: be perfectly distributed, right. And the only reason that there's

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Speaker 1: one reason to think that's not the case, and that's

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Speaker 1: that we have sent stuff outside the Solar System, Like

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Speaker 1: we launched probes and they're floating off into space and

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Speaker 1: we're watching them and they haven't like banged up and

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Speaker 1: the wall of some hugely massive blob of stuff. But

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Speaker 1: what have you expand that idea even further to encompass

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Speaker 1: the whole observable universe. It is possible then that we

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Speaker 1: could be inside of a black hole. Yeah, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: possible the entire observable universe is inside a black hole. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you can't rule that out. How do you feel about

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Speaker 1: saying that on a public record, Um, I wonder if

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Speaker 1: any of my colleagues are listening. No, I think it's awesome.

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Speaker 1: You would be surprised. I think it's awesome, And I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes these awesome questions come from the minds of children,

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Speaker 1: And that's why I hope that people are listening to

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Speaker 1: the podcast with their kids, because kids ask amazing questions

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Speaker 1: that make us think about things we otherwise would have

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Speaker 1: totally discarded that might actually be reality. Well, so that's

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Speaker 1: so that's the answer. The answer is that it is

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Speaker 1: totally possible that we are inside of a black hole

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Speaker 1: and not knowing. Yeah, but I think our whole universe

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Speaker 1: would have to be inside the black hole, not just

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Speaker 1: the solar system. But yeah, that's a pretty small conviat

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Speaker 1: for it for a yes answer to that question, isn't

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Speaker 1: that sort of a theory out there that were like

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Speaker 1: the whole universe are are inside the whole universe inside

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Speaker 1: of a black hole, and there are other black holes

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Like that or is that pretty fringe? I

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Speaker 1: think it is the theory out there, and it's pretty fringe,

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Speaker 1: But it's also totally possible, you know, like we really

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Speaker 1: just we don't know what's going on inside black holes?

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Speaker 1: Are there little universes in there? You know? The inside

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Speaker 1: of a black hole is totally disconnected from the space

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Speaker 1: that we live in, right, Like there's no way to

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Speaker 1: get from here to there, right, That's why that's how

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Speaker 1: a black hole works, even like can't escape it, not

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Speaker 1: because it's like slowing down the light as it tries

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Speaker 1: to leave, but because it's bent space in such a

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Speaker 1: way that there's just no path out, like just zooming

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Speaker 1: around inside the black hole. So in some ways you

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Speaker 1: can think of it as sort of like a different

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Speaker 1: universe disconnected from our our space, and so you can

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Speaker 1: imagine then anything that goes on in there. And uh,

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Speaker 1: when experiments can't constrain things, theorists minds tend to go wild,

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Speaker 1: and so they think about all sorts of crazy stuff

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Speaker 1: that could be inside there, insing bears or entire universes.

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Speaker 1: Crazy scientists and nine year old boys whom I grew

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Speaker 1: up to be crazy scientists. All right, Well, that's the

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Speaker 1: answered for Oliver's son of Jorge, and I'll let him

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Speaker 1: know if he has a good sum he stumped the physicists. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a great question. If he was Icelandic, his last

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Speaker 1: name would be or Hasten exactly. All right, Well, we

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Speaker 1: have two other awesome questions that we are going to

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Speaker 1: answer about electron identity. I guess is that is that

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Speaker 1: we would be the right topic and also about dark

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Speaker 1: Matter stars, which sounds like a heavy battle band last

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Speaker 1: science fiction movie. So stay tuned, will be right back.

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Speaker 1: Al Right, we are back answering list are questions, and

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Speaker 1: so our next question comes from Yugi from the Netherlands,

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Speaker 1: and he is wondering if electrons have identity crises. That's right,

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Speaker 1: And this particular listener is something of a super fan,

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Speaker 1: writing to us on Twitter fairly often with insightful questions,

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Speaker 1: and he sent me this one and I thought, well

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Speaker 1: that's a good question, let's take it online, and so

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Speaker 1: here he is, Hi, Danielle and Jorge. My name is

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Speaker 1: Eugene Raudemake and I live in the Netherlands, hence the actions.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of your morphous poticast cities, for

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Speaker 1: it makes me understand more of physics, and it makes

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Speaker 1: me think a lot about the universe in general. After

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Speaker 1: listening to your episode about quantum tunneling, the following question

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Speaker 1: came to my mind. If an electron tapt well say A,

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Speaker 1: suddenly appears in well B, how can physically still it's

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Speaker 1: actually this very same electron. I realized that I had

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Speaker 1: the both bowl empty swimming pool and the analogy in

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Speaker 1: my mind when the Christians sue appearance in my will.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for spending time answering my questions, all right, thank

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Speaker 1: you for saying this question, and also for being a

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Speaker 1: fan of the show. We really appreciate everyone listening out there. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And uh, it's really a wonderful question, you know. To me,

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Speaker 1: it goes to the heart of like what are these particles?

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Speaker 1: What are we talking about? Um? But the way I

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Speaker 1: interpret his question is like, you haven't quite an electron

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Speaker 1: over here, and physics tells us the electron can then

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Speaker 1: later be over there. But his question is, how do

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Speaker 1: you know it's the same electron? Right, because we don't

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Speaker 1: have this sort of notion anymore of a classical path

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Speaker 1: that you can like watch a baseball fly through the

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Speaker 1: air and when a baseball, you know, when somebody hits

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Speaker 1: a home run, you watch it fly. You don't ask like,

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Speaker 1: is that the same baseball or is it suddenly swapped out?

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Speaker 1: But with quantum mechanical particles, because you can't observe them

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Speaker 1: all the way along the path, you just get these snapshots.

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Speaker 1: You can sort of wonder like, how do you know

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Speaker 1: that's the same electron? Maybe it's from another electron down

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Speaker 1: the street, right, it's just Tom or Harry or Mary

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Speaker 1: or Sally. I feel like the question is there such

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Speaker 1: a thing as an electron? Is there an electron? You

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Speaker 1: can say and follow it around and it has a

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Speaker 1: birth in a you know, journey, and then it maybe

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Speaker 1: answer at some point we can you follow an electron?

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Speaker 1: Or are we getting into identity politics now? So there's

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Speaker 1: electrons go back to where they came from physics. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: obviously we're not qualified to dive into those topics. You know,

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Speaker 1: well that's a it's a famous topic in physics, and

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Speaker 1: it's something that real physicists wonder and uh. In this

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Speaker 1: famous physicist, John Wheeler, he had this sort of moment

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Speaker 1: of insight and I don't know if he was smoking

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Speaker 1: banana peels or what. But he was wondering, like, why

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Speaker 1: do all electrons behave the same way? Like you drop

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Speaker 1: an electron in the in the circumstance, it's always going

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Speaker 1: to get repulsed in the same way. It's not like

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Speaker 1: this one's got a little bit more charge and that

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Speaker 1: one's got a little bit more mass. They're all identical.

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Speaker 1: They're not like scoops of ice cream, right, they all

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Speaker 1: have exactly the same properties. And he had this moment

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Speaker 1: of in said he thought, wait a second, maybe there

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Speaker 1: is just one electron. These are all the same electron.

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Speaker 1: What what do you mean, like the electrons in my

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Speaker 1: body and the ones in your body, they're all the same. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: sort of um, And I think I think that's actually

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Speaker 1: sort of the answer is that the electron is not

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Speaker 1: really um a particle that has an identity. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of like a state of mind or a state of matter, right,

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Speaker 1: because these days we don't think quantum mechanically about particles

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Speaker 1: as the fundamental basis of the universe. Instead we think

426
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: of fields, right, and particles are just excited states of

427
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: the field. It's sort of like when you look at

428
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: the ocean, you know, and you've tried to follow a wave. Right,

429
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: A wave is not the basic unit of the ocean.

430
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: It's the water. Right. The wave is just like, you know,

431
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: the ocean has got excited a little bit by the wind,

432
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: and it comes and it goes, and there's more waves

433
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: behind it. It's just it's just the motion of the ocean.

434
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: And that's right exactly. And so in that same way,

435
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: you can think of electrons. Not a's like, here's a

436
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: little chunk of matter, a little like piece of the

437
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: universe we're gonna follow around. But it's just like a

438
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: momentary excitation of this sort of hard to think about

439
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: thing called the electron field which fills the universe. And

440
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: when it gets a little bit of energy somewhere, you

441
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: call that an electron. It's not an object. It's kind

442
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: of a wiggle of an object. Yes, exactly, it's a

443
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: wiggle of an object. And you know, this goes back

444
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: to that other question we tried to answer. It's a photon,

445
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: a particle, or a wave, for example, And I think

446
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: I said on that podcast that it's sort of neither

447
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: and sort of both, and really it's something else weird

448
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: and fundamental that we just cannot understand by making analogies, right,

449
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: analogies from our macroscopic experience. Things that we're familiar with

450
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: just don't work because we've never seen anything like that before. Well,

451
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: it turns out you can apply the same idea as

452
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: to an electron also, right, an electron is both a

453
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: particle and a wave and both and neither and something

454
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: else totally weird. It's really just the excitation of a

455
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: quantum field. And and the reason, the reason actually that

456
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: we came up with quantum fields, the reason that this

457
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: whole development is progress, right and not just confusion, is

458
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: that it helps us think about the way particles are

459
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: created and destroyed. Because when electron is flying through um

460
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: the universe, it doesn't just sit around happily. It generates photons,

461
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: and those photons turned into electrons and positrons which turned

462
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: back into photons. Every electron is actually surrounded by like

463
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: a fuzz ball of virtual particles, photons and electrons and

464
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: things popping in out of the vacuum. What do you mean,

465
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: like an electron is not always an electron. It's constantly

466
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: kind of fuzzy and morphing and changing. Yes, exactly, it's

467
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: constantly morphing and changing and it's surrounded by a ball

468
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: of like almost an infinite number of low energy particles

469
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: that are being created and destroyed around it. Right, And

470
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: so we came up with this alternative mathematical formulation quantum

471
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: field theory, because it's really hard to follow the path

472
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: of an individual particle through this sort of probabilistic storm

473
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: of things that's happening, and it's much easier to just

474
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: think about the field that's generating all these particles. And

475
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: then a particle creation and destruction is much more natural

476
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: in quantum field theory than an old quantum mechanics where

477
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 1: we try to track follow an individual particle as if

478
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: it was a baseball. So we have to sort of

479
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: let go of this whole idea of particles having identities,

480
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: particles having paths, um and just think of them as

481
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: momentary oscillations in this field. Well, I think there's several

482
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: questions here, like, you know, maybe maybe you he was

483
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: also thinking of the wave analogy maybe, and so maybe

484
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: his question was, you know, just like you can follow

485
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: a wave in the ocean, you know, if you if

486
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: I make a ripple in the in the lake or something,

487
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: or you've even wave is made out into the ocean.

488
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: You can you can kind of follow that wave, right, like,

489
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: that's wave A. I'm gonna call it Sally, and you

490
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: can follow Sally as it moves across the Pacific, right,

491
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: you sort of can. But what if Sally looks exactly

492
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: like all the other waves, and there's billions of them,

493
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: and you look away, and then you look back and

494
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: you wonder which of those waves is Sally. That's the

495
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: situation where the one that um like, if I see

496
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: it at point A and I see at point B

497
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: one second later, well that's his question, right, the one

498
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: that's a point C another second later, basically right, could

499
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: be or could be there along the way got turned

500
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: into something else and then got turned back into a wave,

501
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: And is it the same wave then? But it almost

502
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: always is, isn't it? Like? Do electrons really just transformed

503
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: to something else constantly when we're not looking, constantly, even

504
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: while we're looking, electrons are constantly influx Yes, exactly. You

505
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: know there's that even the ones that in my body,

506
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: even the ones in your body, they're not special, sorry

507
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 1: to inform you. Um, you know, there's that ancient philosophical question, right,

508
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: there's some some ancient Greek ship, and every time it

509
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: comes into harbor that it's lost a piece and they

510
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: repair it, and then after five years there are no

511
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: pieces of the original ship, and they wonder, like, is

512
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: it still that same ship? You know, if it's made

513
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: out of all new pieces? Um, And it's sort of

514
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: that question, but it's the particle version of that question.

515
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: And uh, wait, what if it rides the same wave

516
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: though that the Greeks mine? Yeah, exactly, And so I'd

517
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: say in this in the same way, there there is

518
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: really no particle identity. Um, I don't I don't know

519
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: that I've smoked enough. But An appeals to say they're

520
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: all the same electron But I think sort of what

521
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 1: he's saying is that they're all manifestations of the same field. Right,

522
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: there's really just one electron field and it appears and

523
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: lots of different places is in the universe. But then

524
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: what's really going on? Because you know, I feel pretty consistent,

525
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, like I am this way sort of now

526
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: and and I'm sort of the same way a second ago.

527
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: I think that's my perception. Are you saying that, you

528
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: know I could have changed into something totally different between

529
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: now and the next second, that I am conscious about, yes,

530
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: But the jorhan nous is not about the stuff that

531
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 1: you're made up of, but the arrangement of those particles. Right,

532
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: just like that ship is not about the pieces of

533
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: wood that went into it, but how they're put together

534
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: and what it's doing, and you know how it spends

535
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: its time. And so in the same way, you are

536
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: a constantly frothing mass of quantum mechanical particles. But that's

537
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: not what makes you you. What makes you use the

538
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: way they're arranged and the way they live their life. Well,

539
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: I am a constant frothing mass of something. Sure, it's

540
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: a really hard question. And you know, this is a

541
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: question which is definitely on the philosophy side of the threshold.

542
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: And something I love about physics is that it bumps

543
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: up against philosophy so often because they're deep consequences to

544
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,239
Speaker 1: the answers of physics questions. And so I've always been

545
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: really interested in in the philosophical implications of particle physics. Um,

546
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: but I have to say it's not something that most

547
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 1: of us, most of us particle physicists, are actually qualified

548
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: to talk about, even though we do pontificate long windedly

549
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: on it. Oh, I see. It's it's one of these

550
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: questions that the answer is kind of like it depends

551
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: on what the definition of is isuly I have to

552
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: go there, but I think it applies in this case.

553
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: Yeah right, It's sort of like it depends on what

554
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: you mean by having an identity or being the same

555
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: electron exactly, you can dig into that forever and smoke

556
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: manin appeals and not necessarily make any progress exactly. Yeah,

557
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: or cigars. But it's a really fun question, So thank

558
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: you for asking it. Yeah, well, what's the What would

559
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: you say is the answer? Then? Do electrons have an

560
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: identity or can you have the same electro on? The

561
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: answer seems to be I would say no. I would

562
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: say identity is a macroscopic quality that we like to

563
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: attribute to things because we're used to it, because we're

564
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: familiar with it. We expected to tom. We expect also

565
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: tiny particles to have it, but they don't and and

566
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: so I think it's odd and uh, and it's it

567
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: tells us more about how we think than about how

568
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: the universe works. So you're saying, at the microscopic level,

569
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: at the individual electron level, these things we can apply

570
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: because things are just constantly changing and frothing, and yeah, exactly,

571
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it has any meaning at the microscopic level.

572
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: All right, well, thank you hear you from the Netherlands

573
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: for that question. Please keep listening. I hope he answered

574
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: your question. Answer your question to your satisfaction. Uh So

575
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: we have one more question, and this one comes from

576
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: Mexico or Mexico about dark matter stars. But first let's

577
00:31:54,800 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: take a quick break. Al right. Our last question of

578
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: today comes from ben who is sending his question from Mexico,

579
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: and he has a question about dark matter stars. Hi,

580
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 1: Daniel lane J. This is Benjamin from Mexico, and I

581
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: was wondering, if the dark matter has all these gravitational

582
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: properties as the regular matter, why have an astrophysicists discovered

583
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: yet a big celestial body made of dark matter, like

584
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: a dark matter star or something big that we can

585
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: indirectly now it's there. Thank you. All right, that's a

586
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: pretty cool question. Where aren't there dark stars besides a

587
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: in comic books? I think that's a comic book villain.

588
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: Exactly it should be, yeah, exactly. Um No, it's an

589
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: awesome question, and the way I interpret it is that

590
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: he's wondering why can't we tell that dark matter is there?

591
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: Why it hasn't dark matter coalesced into some sort of

592
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: object that we could then pinpoint, Because I think he

593
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: maybe is frustrated at the sort of diffusiveness of dark matter.

594
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: We know it's there, we know it's sort of everywhere,

595
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: but we can't seem to say exactly where it is

596
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: and why not? Is that how you interpret the question?

597
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: Why does it stay so fuzzy? Yeah? Yeah, exactly. And

598
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: I think that the key thing to understand here is

599
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: remember that gravity is really really weak, and it's the

600
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: only way we can see dark matter so far. The

601
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: only way we can feel it is through its gravity,

602
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: and and so it takes a huge amount of stuff

603
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: to notice something just from gravity. Remember, the gravity is

604
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: so weak that you can feel the Earth's gravity, but

605
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: you can't feel the gravity of your car or your house,

606
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: even though there is a gravitational pull there, it takes

607
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: some huge body to even feel it. Right, Well, maybe

608
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: we should recap and a little bit about dark matter. Right,

609
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: So we know that dark matter feels gravity, right, that's

610
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: how we sort of know it's there because it's pulling

611
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: us around the galaxy. But it doesn't feel electromagnetic forces,

612
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: which means we can't see it or touch it. Right,

613
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: that's right exactly. It doesn't give off light, it doesn't

614
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: reflect light. We can't see it using any of those

615
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: normal methods that we usually used to see stuff, right,

616
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: But it does feel gravity, and so I think maybe

617
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: Ben's question is, if dark matter feels gravity, why hasn't

618
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: it clumped together out in space because it's attracted to itself, right,

619
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: isn't it attracted to itself? Dark matter is attracted to

620
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: itself by gravity, absolutely yes, and it has clumped together. Right,

621
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: dark matter is not evenly spread throughout the universe. Dark

622
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: matter has clumped together thanks to gravity, and it's formed

623
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: these big blobs. And it's, in fact only because dark

624
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: matter has clumped together to make these blobs that we

625
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: have galaxies and we are alive, because without dark matters

626
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: gravitational pull, there wouldn't be enough gravity to hold the

627
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: galaxies together. And we've done simulations and seeing that in

628
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: universities without dark matter, it takes a lot longer for

629
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: gravity to pull all this luminous stuff together to make

630
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: stars and planets and galaxies. So dark matter does make

631
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: um structure, It does make objects. But those objects are

632
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: sort of big and diffuse, and and they're sort of

633
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: the size of the galaxy. And and you might ask, well,

634
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: how do we know that the dark matter inside the

635
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: galaxy hasn't also clumped together to make you know, star

636
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: size stuff or planet sized stuff the way normal matter has, right,

637
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: And And we don't know the answer to that, right,

638
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: And the reason we don't know is because we can't

639
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: see dark matter and enough to tail Like, it's totally

640
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: possible that the distribution of dark matter in the galaxy

641
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: is either a totally smoothly spread out right, be sort

642
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: of like a cloud. Now we know it's denser towards

643
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: the center and less dense towards the outside, but it

644
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: could still be like a like a big cloud, right,

645
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: Or it could be that their structure that it's clumped

646
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: together to make, you know, a bunch of dense points,

647
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: just the way normal matter has. So there could be

648
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: dark matter stars or dark matter planets exactly, but the

649
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: only way to see them would be through gravity. And

650
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: it's really hard to see a gravity from like one

651
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: planet or the gravity from one star, right unless it's

652
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: really close by. Like if there were dark matter stars

653
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: and a dark matter star passed near our solar system,

654
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: then we could detect it the way we detect black

655
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: holes right there. Black holes are invisible. We detect them

656
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: from their gravity. Sometimes we detect black holes because of

657
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: the X rays that are produced from compressed gas nearby.

658
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: But a lot of black holes we see through their gravity.

659
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: But you need to be a pretty big black hole

660
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: to detect its gravity from far away or to see

661
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: its gravitational effect. Are nearby stuff, right, And in fact,

662
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: there are a few of these things we found, and

663
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: they have a pretty silly name. You ready for it

664
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: always physics really names. Yeah, they're back a long time

665
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: ago before we knew whether dark matter was the thing.

666
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: People were wondering if they were just big clumps of

667
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: normal matter there was sort of hidden out there, and

668
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: they gave them this name, massive compact halo objects, and

669
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: the acronym for that is m A C h O. Right,

670
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: so mach of these not nachos. Nachos are a totally

671
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: different thing. These are MACHOs. And so that's not physicists

672
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: over compensating for anything, not at all. No, And so

673
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: people went out there and looking for these things, like

674
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: can we find dark blobs out there, dark condensed blobs

675
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: out there that might be responsible for all the missing mass, right,

676
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: And they did find a bunch of not nearly enough

677
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: to account for all the dark matter, but they found

678
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of them. They would find them like eclipsing

679
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: stars or bending the path of other objects. Um. And

680
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 1: so we know that there are dark objects out there.

681
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: Some of them could be dark matter, right, Some of

682
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: them could be so totally possible that dark matter has

683
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: clumped these objects together. We just don't have the gravitational

684
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: sensitivity to see them because they're too small. Essentially, in

685
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: gravity is so weak, Like our ability to notice or

686
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: feel or see dark matter is not at the planet

687
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: or at the star level. It's only at sort of

688
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: the galaxy level, yeah, exactly a little bit less than

689
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: the galaxy. We can we can get some sense of

690
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: where they are based on how rotations vary as a

691
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: function of the radius from the center of the galaxy.

692
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: But roughly yet much more the galaxy level than the

693
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: star level. But but it's fun to think about, like

694
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: imagine what would happen. What would happen if you had

695
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: a huge blob of dark matter and it coalesced into

696
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: sort of a tight blob, like would it make a

697
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: star like planet? You know? And we when we say

698
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: a star, we sort of mean something that's big enough,

699
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: has enough gravity that it's pushed the stuff together that

700
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: begins to fuse and release energy, right, And so another

701
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: interesting question is like, what would happen if you squeeze

702
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: that much dark matter together? What interesting things happen, like, um,

703
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: you know, elements fusing and releasing photons and things like that. Well,

704
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: we don't know, but we know it's not made of elements, right,

705
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: It's not made of atoms. It's made of some some

706
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: other kind of matter. And the only interaction we know

707
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: it has is gravity. So as far as we know,

708
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: it would just squeeze and squeeze and squeeze and squeeze,

709
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: and there's no repulsion. Right. The thing that keeps a

710
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: star or a planet from immediately becoming a black hole

711
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: are the other forces. It feels like electromagnetism, which and

712
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: the strong force which fuel fusion, right, which keeps a

713
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: star exploding. It keeps it from collapsing immediately. So if

714
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: dark matter has no other forces, then every time it

715
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: gets to be a pretty dense clump is just going

716
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: to turn into a dark matter black hole, because that's

717
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: it's just gravity. But if dark matter does feel some

718
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: other force, maybe some new force we've never seen before

719
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 1: that only affects dark matter on dark matter interactions, then maybe,

720
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, clumping a bunch of the dark matter together

721
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: could sp some sort of dark matter interaction which could

722
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: release like dark photons. We're just wildly speculating here because

723
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: we just really don't know what happens when dark matter

724
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: bumps into dark matter, dark photons, and dark light. Yes, exactly,

725
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: sounds like all good comic book characters. That's right. Today

726
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: we've been exploring the connection between physics, philosophy and physics

727
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: and comics books. Is it trifecta um? I think? You know,

728
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: maybe that's where Ben's question came from. You know, like,

729
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: you know, we know dark matter feels gravity, so why

730
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: hasn't it clumped into dark matter black holes? You know,

731
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: why is it still kind of diffused and and not

732
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: um not more noticeable? You know? Does that mean that

733
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: you know he's a alternative you mentioned are maybe probably true?

734
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: You know that there are other forces or there are

735
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: maybe other mechanisms going on inside of a dark matter Absolutely,

736
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: I think a lot of physicists believe that there must

737
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: be some other kind of force that dark matter feels,

738
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: not just gravity, and the sort of complicated arguments for

739
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: that based on what happened in the early universe and

740
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: how some matter and dark matter turned back and forth

741
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: into itself. We have indirect evidence of that happening, which

742
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: suggests there must be some other force that dark matter feels,

743
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: but we haven't figured that out yet at all. It's

744
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: really it's very indirect arguments. But there is one thing

745
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: that keeps dark matter from collapsing sort of quickly into

746
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: a black hole, and that's our old friend rotation. Like,

747
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: one thing that keeps the galaxy from collapsing into a

748
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: black hole is that it's spinning, and so that keeps

749
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: the stars from falling in just the way spinning the

750
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: Earth spinning around the Sun keeps it from falling into

751
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: the Sun. Right, it's an orbit. If you have a

752
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: huge blob of dark matter and it's rotating, that rotation

753
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: keeps it from collapsing gravitationally into a black hole. And

754
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: so that's something that dark matter can do, even if

755
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: even if it has no other interactions. But yeah, I

756
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: think that it's totally possible that dark matter has formed

757
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: really dense blobs inside our galaxy, and it's possible that

758
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: there's new interactions doing weird stuff inside those dark matter

759
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: objects that we have no idea about. But I think

760
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: what you're saying maybe is that we we sort of

761
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: haven't seen that yet, right, Like, if if we are

762
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: surrounded by dark matter stars or dark matter you know,

763
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 1: giant asteroids, you know, and one of them came through

764
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: our Solar system, would we would notice it? Right, like

765
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: we would notice all the other planets going whoa gravitation, Yes, exactly,

766
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing we would notice for sure.

767
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: I mean we noticed Omuamua, right, this tiny little rock

768
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: coming through from from deep space and passing through our

769
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: soul system with no gravitational interaction at all. That was

770
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: but it was reflective. But imagine some really dense, heavy

771
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: object that perturbed the path of the planets that we

772
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: would definitely notice. Yeah, it would have to be pretty

773
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: big though, because gravity is pretty weak, So like some

774
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: random rock flying through the universe we wouldn't notice and

775
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: have to be you know, like, it had to be

776
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: a pretty significant objects. I'm not sure exactly how man,

777
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: but some significant fraction in the mass of the Sun

778
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: at the very least. Yeah, we would notice it, right,

779
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: It would totally disrupt our solar system. Yeah, absolutely. But

780
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: there could be a lot of these dark matter blobs

781
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: out there and just none of them have passed through

782
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: the Solar system because the galaxy is huge, right, and

783
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: there's lots of blobs out there that that made a

784
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: normal matter that don't pass through our solar system. Doesn't

785
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: mean they're not out there. I mean, there could be

786
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: a giant banana shaped massive dark matter out there that's

787
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 1: waiting for us to slip on. That's right. You're gonna

788
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: tie all the questions together. What if there's a banana

789
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: shaped massive dark matter creating a Solar system sized black

790
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: hole and we're in it, could we tell if there

791
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: was another one that was identical? All right? Well, I

792
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: guess that band's answer is that there could be dark

793
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: matter stars and planets or things out there. We just

794
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: we just can't see them yet. That's just don't have

795
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: the the right glasses to see it more sharply, right,

796
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, um, And it's not clear that we

797
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: ever will because we don't know what glasses to put on,

798
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: or if there are glasses that you could even potentially

799
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: theoretically put on to see this stuff. Well, obviously we

800
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: just need dark glasses. I wear my sunglasses at night.

801
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: I don't know about you. All right, Well, once again,

802
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: thank you listeners for sending you as your questions. We

803
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: love to interact with you online, and so please follow

804
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: us and please tell your friends about this podcast. That's right.

805
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: And if you're listening to us talk about something in

806
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: physics and you have a question that pops into your mind,

807
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: please share it with us. The reason we're doing this

808
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: podcast is to clarify these things and explain them to you.

809
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: And so there's something we've missed, we want to get

810
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, and we'll answer it even if you

811
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: are not our sons, unless you're on Instagram. In that case, sorry,

812
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: in that case, you're out of luck. Do you have

813
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 1: any sons on Instagram? You not aware of your trendy

814
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: and like the rest of the universe, then maybe you

815
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: should ask the question on Twitter. That's solid advice. Thanks

816
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: for listening, hope you enjoyed it, Thanks for tuning in.

817
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all

818
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to

819
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

820
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge That's one Word, or

821
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

822
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

823
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of I Heart Radio. For

824
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the i heart

825
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826
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Speaker 1: favorite shows. Yea