WEBVTT - Vanessa Williams PT2 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:18.680 Welcome back to Viva Betty. How have you been fine? 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.480 I mean, I'm really excited about today. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:23.360 Are you excited? 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:29.800 I'm excited about Vanessa icon mother f ing Williams that 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.440 we somehow managed to get all the week from one 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.400 day down. We did promise you last week that you 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:37.599 were going to have an extended interview. You're getting it. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:39.040 You're getting it right now. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:43.479 We're talking wigs. Oh god, we're talking drama. The devil words, Brana, 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:44.800 I don't even want to know. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:46.360 Are you ready? 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.120 I don't know, roll the click. 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:49.839 Get into it. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.480 Did you have any sort of vibe on Wilhelmine and 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.680 what it would mean to be sort of so as 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.160 a black woman, like playing the lead of not only 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.920 of a of a network show, but also as sort 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.320 of like this iconic and she wasn't at the point, 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.760 I mean, you made her such, but like just to 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.000 be this editor of this big fashion magazine. Was there 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.520 any sort of like what did you feel when you 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:20.640 were like, oh, I know this character or do did 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:21.520 you know this character? 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.839 Well? Well, Sylvia who was our creator, that's right, he 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.520 saw me, he loved me. And at Diva's Christmas Carol 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:35.240 where I play you know, iconic. Yeah, and uh so, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:40.240 uh you know, she's throwing fits and he knew that 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.080 I could do the diva part of it. So that's 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.720 why I get her. I want her. She'll nail it. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:50.400 And again, this is a pilot, that's right, pilot nobody 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.640 had like it was not there was no prototype or 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.600 what it wasn't so it wasn't you know er it 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.560 was just a whole new genre. 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.000 That it didn't seem like anyone particular liked it or 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:02.480 wanted it. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.000 Yeah, it kind of gave us the freedom might this 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.480 is fun, Wow, this would be cool. But you know, 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.120 and then we picked up that May I was like, okay, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.880 let's get it on too. It was always like, what's 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.240 the next step. Let's see if we can get it on. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:19.480 It's a Friday night, let me we can get it on, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.239 you know. And then when we were at the TCA's 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.360 that the Television Critics Association, and we had to do 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.400 that panel that's right and doing interviews and all the 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.760 writers are like, this is the best thing that ABC has. 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:33.880 I hope you know that. And we were slotted for 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:40.400 like Friday night, you know, kind of not a throwaway but. 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:40.560 But not not not not. 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:45.200 Yeah, and in front of bras anatomy. I mean we 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.240 you know, we blew up because they valued what we 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:50.720 created in the in the. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:55.680 Pilot, when Uglybody hit your desk, were you sort of 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.840 like I'm gonna I want to do this it like 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.120 I'm going to do this and I'm. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:01.359 To bring what about her? 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:06.239 Like like Willelmina, Like how did you sort of approach it? 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.919 Honestly, I never know what I am going to do. 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.079 You know, that's the first day on set. You don't 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.280 know what I mean. You think like I'll try to 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.360 do my best, but you're kind of figuring out. I've 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.480 got an approach and let's see whether it works. So 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.639 I it wasn't a calculated thing. 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:26.760 I mean I think amazing. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:28.480 I was in dead. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:33.600 I think with your first scene with Hot by the way, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:34.400 so you. 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.600 Boobs hairs I'll toss on themselves, was like, okay, this 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:39.760 is a funday work. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.440 When Terry told us, when Terry told us that that 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.600 was your first scene, I was completely because I have 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.560 no idea. America's first scene was the photo shoot where 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.480 she's in the late latex, and your first scene was 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.200 You're in bed with Frind she by the way so 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.880 fucking hot, I mean, the two together, excuse. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.000 Me, by the way, and I you know, the annoying 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.480 bit about this too is that all of you guys 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.920 look exactly the same and I'm the only one that 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.120 looks different. So the reboot's gonna look great? Am I 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:17.799 getting recasted? We can go back to twenty ten according 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.200 to the ways in which you all look. But oh 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:25.080 oh oh oh, we also do you know, we're obviously 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.120 talking about fashion. 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.320 We get the fashion. So Season one is a little 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.240 weird for all of us. 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.240 Sure it was. It was an adjustment. But I want 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.800 to just talk about the pilot because one of my 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:42.400 favorite looks that has ever been on, like as far 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.880 as I've seen or that I can remember, is your 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.599 Versace suit the first time that we meet her. Do 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.800 you remember the white, the white with the with like 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:59.599 the gold kind of bell necklace like that versus I 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.040 think it was vers I. 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.559 Think it was, and it's fat Field. 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.800 It was, yeah, in the pilot, in the pilot, and 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:14.080 I was just so, I mean, I was taken by 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.080 it for a myriad of reasons, but also because it 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.320 was gay. You're probably because of gay, you're gay. Probably 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.560 the gay stuff write that part. We didn't figure that 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.640 out yet. We're not there yet. The season three. 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:31.480 We had all figured it out. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.720 But I feel like it was because and I met 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.720 like no, because I I think that that for some 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.440 reason there was an overlap or something, or maybe she 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.440 wore in the like in one of the photos or something. 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.359 I just remember seeing you in it in person and 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:54.680 being like, that's a really beautiful woman. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.320 Lynn had to tell you when you walked into the table, 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.240 Lynn was like, that's festival like like and I was like, 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.200 who was gagged? Lynn was absolutely gagged meeting you for 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:07.839 the first time. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:16.480 You remember Almo and Grouchland's Queen of Trash. Nowadays, all 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.200 these kids like aren't you in Hannah Montana. I'm like, 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.080 oh my god, it's amazing where people like all from. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.680 Yeah, but are you getting any sort of Are you 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:32.000 getting any sort of you know, ugly betty love now? 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.440 Because they were, yeah, like, has that is that a 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.000 thing that like is recurring for you? 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.160 It's so worldwide and I get a chance at the 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.600 stage or every night to like, you know, we love 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:50.840 to where are you from? Like Asia, Taiwan, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:59.800 Uh always uh, like Poland forgetuation to Magro rantsom Flora Spain. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:05.719 I mean, it's Brazil, all Australia. It's been incredible the 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.599 reach that we we have in our and now that 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.800 it's on Netflix, forget it. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.800 Yes, yes, and and that, and that was kind of 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:18.239 the impetus for the reason why we even started doing 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.880 this and like this rewatch is because of the Netflix 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.640 kind of thing, like where it was just like, oh wow, 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.280 you guys, you guys like this this TV show from 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.400 a long time ago. But I just I you know, 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:37.840 I really, I really feel strongly about the character of 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.360 will Amminislator being like a powerful black woman in power 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.240 because I think that part of the cultural aspect of 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:51.440 this podcast is talking about things that are extremely topical today. 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.680 We did cultural conversation. 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:57.600 Before it was like you know, like deragor like now 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.280 now everybody like we sort of like broke lot of 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:02.200 and I should say you broke a lot of. 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:03.920 I mean, we as a family did. 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.000 On terms in the terms of like sort of the 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:11.320 immigration conversation, the healthcare healthcare conversation, what it what it 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:12.600 was to be sort of. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.000 A young brown woman in the workplace. But you were 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:18.160 sort of like a. 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.440 Black woman in position of power and sort of you 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.000 really your character spoke to sort of all of that, 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.440 because you had to sort of battle Bradford, and you 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.120 had to battle sort of nepotism and you know, the 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.160 rightful place of sort of your the woman that you 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.560 were being constantly sort of. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.280 Passed over because and sit alone as a woman of 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:41.520 color in that space. 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.920 And so it was still such a plause. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.400 And bossed it up. And so I don't know, I 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.080 guess I suppose the question is did that mean anything 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.079 to you at the time or looking back at it, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.800 does it? What does it mean to you now? 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:01.160 Well, I luckily had examples to to model myself as 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.000 Susan Taylor, who ran Essence magazine for years, was a 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.839 great great uh you know, shero she had ran it 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:13.640 for years. She was smart and creative and she was 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:18.400 the epitome of black female excellence as an editor. So 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.400 that was kind of and also Andre Leon Talley, oh yeah, 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:28.640 style and uh and just knowledge. There were examples. So 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.120 it wasn't like ever been seen before. 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.200 I hadn't been seen on like network TV though, right, 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.480 Like that's the context in which we're we're asking too, 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:41.760 Like It's like, it's not that they didn't exist, it 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:47.640 was just for for people that had never seen. 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:52.200 Talking to Diane Carroll who was Plade Julia back in 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.760 the sixties and black nursers. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:10:01.280 Had Dominique on Dynasty, pardon me exactly. 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:06.679 But in the sixties she single handedly integrated the union 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.160 because she was like, I'm a black woman, I need 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.400 my hairdresser to do my hair, and that say insisting 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.600 and getting her way. She made sure that she got 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:22.320 her black hairdresser on set to do her and she 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.440 integrated the union in just one, you know, one decision, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.480 so that power move. Seeing those women just change the 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.200 game constantly, it was easy for me to kind of 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:38.360 make it a reality. It wasn't you know, it wasn't our. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.120 Fat Speaking of which, so we've had a lot of 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:42.240 hair conversations. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:43.920 Have you watched season one? 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.520 Have you like? Have you have you watched Uglyboddy like 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.120 season one recently or in any. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:56.000 Not recently recently, but yeah, I've watched it, and I 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.920 mean there's some things out I don't even remember me 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:06.679 like when we do that what. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.000 Was hilarious to me too. And we talked about this 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.120 with Terry all the time. Is when we. 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:15.720 First started out, they gave us like because to your point, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.600 like they just thought like, oh, it's a brown girl 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:19.920 as a lead, Like this is. 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:20.679 Not going anywhere. 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.000 And we had like four dollars to make you know, 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:24.760 we made a dollar out of fifteen cents. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:25.960 And I had. 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:30.840 Literally like plastic like hair ponytails, like stuck on the 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.959 side of my head. Like I looked completely insane, and 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:36.160 you know, but then as the. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:37.880 Show goes on, it gets a lot better. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:43.320 But like my and Betty's wig was a complete insane nightmare, 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.400 and you know, like and. 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.600 You know, all of us looked so great, like we 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:49.400 looked amazing. 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.000 But it was so crazy to sort of like see 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.480 that evolution of like when they hate when they hated 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.559 us and didn't care about us until then we got 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.360 nominated and all of a sudden, we all looked everyone. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:06.319 Look I was like breakfast. We didn't we didn't get 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.760 catered breakfast, and so we got the nominations. 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.880 I mean, it's just like but but but I I 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.880 suppose that what I'm saying is watching it for the 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.319 first time, I'm like, what's going on with everyone's hair? 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.640 Well, that was another thing. So I don't remember our 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.520 Friday Nights. Friday Nights and the hair makeup trail. Yes, girls, 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:36.240 like someone's getting someone's walking off the plane and he's 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:36.719 done it. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.360 We called it Survivor trailer because when I tell you, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.840 like we would it would be like a new fucking 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.840 team literally like every month, because we were all like, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:54.000 we look like lunatics. 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:08.400 I need to talk about Michael Uri and and and 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:14.480 Vanessulay we did, and Mark and Whilhelmina because they're I 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.560 and and correct me if I'm wrong. The but you 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.320 like the character of Mark was not meant to only 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:26.600 be Yuri the entire time. And and that when as 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.200 soon as it like hit and your and your chemistry 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.320 kind of hit in the way that it did, which 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.760 seemed automatic, which I think that the two of you 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.360 have spoken about myriad times that you were like, oh no, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.480 we're this is this is what we're doing. 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:43.680 Yeah, how did that go down? 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:44.280 Exactly? 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.960 Well? In theory, Wilhelminia was supposed to hire so to 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.880 fire somebody every episode, so they would they would be 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.240 an assistant and they get fired and you have somebody new. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.120 So we were doing the pilot and we did the 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.240 scene and like my my I'm in my leather Chay's 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:07.400 lounge and for my botox. Yes, Michael comes in with 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:12.000 the needle and he's like, oh my god, if is 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.600 there a way that if I give you and I 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.840 have some little leftover, let's do I do one of 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.320 my eyebrows and lead the other eyebrow up. So but 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.200 he was already he was like Schemia, like wouldn't it 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.240 be hilarious? Like genius and met her a friend of 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.720 and he went to Juilliard to like, this guy's brilliant, 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:35.960 and we just had immediate chemistry and and obviously I 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:41.960 respected his you know, Juilliard is amazing, his art, his education. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.560 But also he was like, let's go for it. Let's 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.840 and that's again our cast. We were always like let's 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.120 try this, let's bounce this off each other at what 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.960 And then so that was hilarious, like, oh my god, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.840 he's really funny. And then when I walk into the 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:03.800 big conference and he's following me, and I sit down 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:05.720 and slink into my chair and I see out of 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.640 my purple vision, he SLINKs down the exact same way, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:10.800 in exact same tempo. 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:12.440 I'm like, okay, this is this? 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.000 Yeah, And when I called out from they were calling 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.200 you from, Mark, and he's like, all that stuff, all 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.280 that stuff came in the pilot. 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.040 I can't even tell you how much I say to 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.000 Mark on a daily I'm halaciously upset Mark. 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.280 Yes, I'm hilaious. Was I was literally about to bring 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.440 that up. I feel like, you know, we we we 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.640 we talked so much about We talked so much though 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:43.080 about like those one liners and and and just kind 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.800 of those buttons and and stuff and I and I 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:51.760 think that the oh in the Halloween episode, uh, when 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.360 Mark dresses up as Betty and and Wilhelmina walks in 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.560 and she's like, Mark, what does she say? 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.880 She said, I've never seen to the effect of like, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:02.760 I've never seen anything so cruel. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.400 Someone's getting a raised. 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:09.440 Me this. 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.440 I was just I was gagged because it's also just 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.880 it just reminded me so much too, like watching the 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.360 show too reminds me of how much fun we had 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.960 making the show as someone that has never seen it 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:31.520 like on screen before, but was there there is something 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.520 that just is so like palpable about watching it, being like, oh, 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.400 these these people are having a good. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.280 Time because it was all happening in the moment. But 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.840 the the the chemistry that you had with Mark, you 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:49.040 also surprisingly had that with America. I mean there was 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.560 we just watched Trust, Lust and Must Yes. Yeah, and 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.920 you have a bunch of scenes. This is the this 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.640 is when Selma first comes in and and Betty tells 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.360 you that she's having the trouble with with Ignacio and 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.840 how she needs money and you you have the scene 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:09.840 where you like offer her the twenty thousand dollars and uh, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:11.800 you know you're you're giving her this and no no 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.359 strings attached. But there was such chemistry between you and 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.399 America that was natural and amazing as well, like you 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:24.080 just whatever whatever scene partner you were given and I 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:25.880 and I think that holds true for any but we're 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.280 talking to you so but I think it was just 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.520 so incredible to watch, like you sort of go to 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:38.960 that vulnerable, vulnerable space. Because this is also where Nico 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.240 was sort of like nico One, as Mark likes to go. 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:49.879 Oh yeah, I call her nico One Nicoll Mark I 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:50.679 was like, who's that? 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:55.040 Mark is such a bitch, So so nico One, look, 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.520 look we're excuse twenty years later. 0:17:58.400 --> 0:17:59.359 We can talk about it. 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.399 We could be real when Nico went, but like, but 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.120 you have like you have, you know, that's the thing 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.760 is that you have. So you had that chemistry also 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.800 because you bully America, but you're also really Betty I 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.280 should say not America, but like you know, because you're 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.280 you have, but you had that chemistry with her as well, 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.600 and it was just so incredible to watch. 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.399 What what what did that feel like? On set? 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:30.440 I think, you know, yes, we were, we are and 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:35.560 we're all talented, but it was almost like doing a 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.040 play where you're at a stage and you're really free. 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.240 That's what I love doing theater because you've got the 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.160 whole stage to make it different and make it new 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.600 every night, every performance weak because you're in charge of 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.120 your own and there was a freedom that we had 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.520 when we shot Ugly Betty. Even though we had guest directors, 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:55.879 we still have the freedom to kind of make it 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:00.280 our own and have our own relationships. And so it 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.480 wasn't a film and people were like, do it again, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.240 try to like that, and so there was a freedom 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.200 that we had that I think made it all so 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:12.080 genuine and like almost in prov even though we had 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:17.679 scripted words. So the trust that we had back and 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.760 forth and and the respect made us a different unit. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.080 It was almost like the show. I mean, like doing 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.920 a theater production every week, like what are we doing 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:33.920 this week? And so that really I think that those 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.280 dynamics gives you the ease and trust to trust your 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:38.240 other put. 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.719 And that the energy up. 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:44.840 Yeah, we've all had theater background, so. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:46.640 That's true, we all did. 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.080 I also forget about that. I mean most of us 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:55.760 were sort of New York theater actors, and so what 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.879 what the was I mean, this is a broad question, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.240 so you might have more than one, but like give 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.880 us whatever you think of off the top of your head. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.399 What was your favorite ugly betty sort of memory. I 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.800 know it's the one I want to back. 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.040 Up on most of the time is when I'm on 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:18.719 the rooftop with the bat baseball bats, smashing the mannequins, 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:23.680 Mick ter Nelly, our director smashing them and getting here 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.840 and then then Michael's got the the gong and he's 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:33.320 shaking shaking the thundersown like I mean, it's so camp. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.600 It's like, could not be any more camp. It's just 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.440 like it's crazy. 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.760 It's and how do you know it? 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:42.320 Sorry? 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.520 The continue and no, no, I just I want to 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:49.520 know how you navigate camp with with just keeping like 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.800 your feet firmly planted on the ground as the character though, 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:58.199 because I think that there are so many moments but 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.879 like that are also extra really grounded in reality, like 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:02.960 just as a performer. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.719 Even just the episode that we watched where you're talking 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:11.640 to Nico and Nico one and you're having the sort 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.720 of there was yeah, you had so many sort of 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.520 like really grounded moments, but it was still like you're 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.240 still like naked under a fur coat and you know 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:24.359 what I mean, and sort of like yeah, like you 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.440 don't have grit. You need grit to get through this life. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.719 Right, how do you how do you like, uh navigate 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:32.320 like the real with the absurd? 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:37.160 I suppose, uh, well, I mean I do think it's 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.680 on the page. Again, all of our writers have gone 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.440 on to have their own shows and do tremendously well. 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.480 So that's right exactly. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:49.320 Pers I know Terry's over there. You curated the best 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.320 writers of the time, so it was all on the 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.520 page and we could have fun and and and again 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:00.240 freedom like we didn't have like the writers saying oh 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.360 you said you said it wrong, do it again. That's 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.159 where we had this works better for me, Can I, 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:07.760 you know, trim this down or eliminate or can I 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:14.000 add this? And that also helped for me make my 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:19.080 my performance and willhelmina clearer like Mark became like, you know, 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.480 that was my signature thing that I came up with, 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:25.120 you know, and those kind of little nuggets of like, oh, 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:26.960 this would be fun, and then that works and the 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.239 writers write it in and it becomes consistent, and then 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.320 all of a sudden, you've got a character that people 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:36.080 recognize and love and you've got your kind of pattern. 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:36.480 And they write to it. 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:38.840 I've always said that I think like that was something 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.080 that we were so lucky to have because I think 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.760 the more the writers got to know us, the more 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.600 they wrote to us. And so to your point, it 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.800 wasn't even really navigating between camp and reality. It was 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.480 like they were really writing to our strengths. And again, 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.840 to your point, we were not to toot. 0:22:58.240 --> 0:22:59.840 Our own horn, but I'm going to do it. 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.600 We did have the capability of of having that sort 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:06.760 of comedy and drama and all of that within the 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:10.920