WEBVTT - Who We Talk About When We Talk About Borders 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:08.400 A media Good morning podcast fans, and welcome to it 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:12.040 could happen here. It's me James today and I'm joined 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.200 by my friend and colleague, Garrison Davis Haige. 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.560 Hello. Hey, So what I don't want to talk about 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:19.799 today is a little piece I wrote. 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.800 I read it on my patreoon that I want to 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.720 kind of discuss it, but here read it to you 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:25.759 and talk about it about what. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.320 We talk about when we talk about immigration. 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.000 So if you recently sent me associated pressed piece on 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.640 the Dadian gap, and the piece was reflecting on the 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.560 loss of economic opportunity for the Mbra people who had 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.080 previously sold, as you heard in my series right products 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.559 services accommodation to migrants coming through a Garian gap. But 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.239 if you read that whole piece, you'd never know they 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:52.600 were Mburra because the word Mbra doesn't occur once in 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.560 the piece, right, You'd never know that the Mbra people existed. 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.920 They never appear in the story. Instead, He which is 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.720 currently going toe to toe with the Trump administration on 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:05.959 whether it should call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.240 of America or not, and was ejected from the White 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.640 House press pool at one point for refusing to call 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.960 it the Gulf of America used to phrase Comarca Indigenous 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:20.520 Lands in its reporting, which I don't know where this 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.880 came from. It has kind of a strange capitalization. If 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.160 you were just reading the piece, you might think that 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.039 that was the name of the comarca, like that it 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.080 was a proper noun, but it's not. The commarker is 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.360 like I guess you could you could roughlyquate that to 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.240 an American state. It's like an administrative division of Panama. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.560 The name of the comarca is Embera un Nan, but 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.000 that doesn't appear anywhere in the appiece, and you could 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.240 to be clear, Like, I understand that some reporters don't 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.800 speak Spanish. I understand that some reporters, like you know 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.120 that they are not like particularly expertly given region. Neither 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.040 am I that was my first time in Panama. But like, 0:01:58.080 --> 0:01:59.960 this is something you could find out on Google Maps. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.640 Right. It's not unique to the AP. 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:05.760 It happens all the time, right, and I want to 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:07.920 talk about that today because it happens at the US 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.520 is Sudden Border too. One of the reasons that I 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.160 wanted to go to the Dadian was because I felt 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.600 like the Embiras story was not being told when people 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.799 talked about the Dadian Gap. When they're mentioned at all, 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.760 it's kind of in passing or not as people who 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.040 have agency, right, And even I think these stories about 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.919 like the lack of income that they have off to 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.800 migrants leaving kind of strip them in of agency in 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.720 the way that they're told. When people talk about the 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:40.720 Darien Gap in media, they kind of use this heart 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.680 of Darkness construction. Obviously it's Joseph Comrade novel, but like 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.240 this idea that like it's where the wild things are, 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.560 I don't know, like it strikes me as very almost orientalist. 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:54.440 Yeah, orientalist is what I was going to say. 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.200 Yeah, And it's like it completely discounts that there are 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.960 thousands of people who live there, who've raised their families there, 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.200 Their children play fucking basketball there, right, they spend their 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.440 whole life there, and they bury their elders there and 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.280 they have done for thousands of years. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:12.440 For them, it's their home, right. 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:14.720 And I understand that the jungle could be scary, and 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.440 I think anyone who's listened to my series will will 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.480 understand that, Like the Jungle was scary for me sometimes, 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.079 and it can be a very harsh environment. But if 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.280 you're someone who belongs there, if you're comfortable there, it 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.520 can also be home, and it could be beautiful and 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.600 it could be bountiful. And I think the same thing 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.520 is true of the mountains and deserts and rivers that 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.520 make up the USA southern border. The desert can kill people, 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.960 I'm well aware of that, But for the people who 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.440 call it home, the desert is somewhere that contains their 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:49.880 memories and their sacred spaces, their childhood recollections, and the 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:51.240 remains of their ancestors. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:51.520 Right. 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.760 And the emission of indigenous perspective is something that we 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.680 saw again when Christian Home decided to wave a number 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.120 of laws in order to facilitate after construction of. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:01.680 The border wall. 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.960 So I want tod again the AP coverage there the AP, 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.600 and again they're far from unique in this, right, Lots 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.360 of other outlets did this too. They seem to have 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.080 only engaged with the DHS press release as opposed to 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.680 the actual proclamation by knowing which you can find in 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.760 the federal register. Right, So the press release only focused 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.279 on the environmental laws she was waving. DHS said, and 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.320 I quote to cut through bureaucratic delays. DHS is waving 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:36.080 environmental laws, including the National Environmental Policy Act, that could 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.159 store vital products for months or even years. This waver 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.040 clears the path for the rapid deployment of physical barriers 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.839 where they're needed most, reinforcing our commitment to national security 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.800 and the rule of law. The rule of law think 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:50.599 kind of made me laugh as they were like, here 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.200 we are waving like a dozen or so laws. But 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.599 I'm not a big rule of law person, so I guess, 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.320 like that's fine. It seems that almost every outlet though, 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.440 like that's what they read and that's what they ran with, 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.479 like that they're waving these environmental laws, and I think 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.760 that can sometimes be this like we still see this 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.880 all the time in the legacy press, Like when they 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.320 talk about environmental laws, there's this idea that it's like 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.760 some kind of like people who want to protect the 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.320 flowers and the plants and like that it's not that serious, 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.160 you know, and that like these environmental laws is something 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.280 that's not that are nice but not necessary. Yeah, and 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.400 like some of these environmental laws, like specifically the ones 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:36.240 that regulate water, will determine the future of places like California, 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.240 like and obviously places south of the border, right, the 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.159 water doesn't know where the border is, and like in 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.040 the previous Trump administration, they wave some environmental laws, including 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.320 ones about flood water, which that combined with the expedited 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.240 way which they built the border wall, I guess, led 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.640 to them not putting floodgates in part of the wall, 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.320 which then led to the wall damming up with like 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.880 dead trees and dead cacti right when it rained heavily, 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.240 and then the wall becoming a barrier to water, and 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.400 then the wall getting broken or washed away, right because 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.599 it didn't have like sluice gates so they could. 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:09.840 Open to let the water out. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.800 The ap went to someone called Earth Justice for comment, 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.040 and to their credit, that person said, quote, waving environmental, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.560 cultural preservation and good governance laws that protect clean air, 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.000 clean water, say god, precious cultural resources and preserve vibrant 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.120 ecosystems of biodiversity, will only cause further harm to our 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.159 border communities and ecosystems. That person is the only person 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:36.040 who mentioned the cultural damage is being done here unless 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.760 a reader themselves that the Federal Register isn't linked in 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.120 any of these pieces, right, it really is I try 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:43.800 and link to it when we talk about something in 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:48.400 executive disorder. But unless you've found that yourself, you wouldn't 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.400 know that. Along with waving these environmental laws, and like 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.600 I've said, those are important, they also wave something called 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.960 the Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation Act, according to 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.640 the Department of the Interior. I was kind of surprised 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.080 this was still up on their website. Actually, I thought 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:05.960 this might have been purred, so like a lot of 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:06.760 maybe it just. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.279 Maybe it's just like screwed by. 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.200 Yeah, yeah, like well, I mean no, apparently no one 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.200 fucking talks about it, so yeah, maybe they got away 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:16.720 with it, you know, Like it's always funny going on 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.400 government websites now and being like, oh it's gone, like 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.320 finding dead links to so much, even in stories I've 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.840 written in like twenty twenty, those links are dead now. 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:31.040 Nagpur requires any federally funded entity to return human remains, sunery, possessions, 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.920 objects of cultural patrimony, and sacred objects to the deceased 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.720 persons and their descendants by and I'm quoting from a 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:42.080 website now consulting with lineal descendants, Indian tribes and Native 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.080 Hawaiian organizations, or Native American human remains and other cultural items, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.640 protecting and planning for Native American human remains and other 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.920 cultural items that may be removed from federal or tribal lands, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.120 Identifying and reporting all Native American human remains and other 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.200 cultural items in inventories and summaries of holdings or collections, 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.600 and giving prior notice to repatriating or transferring human remains 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:10.320 and other cultural items. So the waiver allows them not 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:14.880 to do these things. Right, crucially, in the context of 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.360 border wall construction, what allows them to do is not 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.160 to conduct an archaeological survey before they dig the border wall. 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.920 And again, like, I don't know why this isn't something 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.960 the legacy media isn't concerned about. It wasn't in twenty 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.480 twenty either. Right when they started doing this, they were 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:36.600 blasting areas where something called midden soil was found. Mid 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.080 and soil is soil that contains evidence of cremated human remains. Right, 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.720 I wrote a piece in twenty twenty for Sierra about this. Normally, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.040 before these digs, there would be an archaeological survey done 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.840 by a tribal representative would be there to take part 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.120 in that. Right, that would take time and it would 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:59.200 delay construction. Instead, right now, the construction will continue without 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.800 considering it down. It's done to the cultural patrimony and 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.880 ancestral remains of the Kumii people here in San Diego, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.439 whose homelands spanned both sides of the border, and who 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.600 were here long before the US or Mexico was talking of. 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:13.880 I can't think of a good fucking ad pivot. 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:15.880 Yeah, there really is no good activot for. 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.599 Stuff like this. No, there's not. We're just going to 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:36.360 do adverts now and we are back. The Cumi not the. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:41.480 Only indigenous people whose homelands have been significantly permanently damaged 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:41.800 by the. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.160 Construction of border barriers. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.560 Right further east, in the homelands of the torn people, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.400 where I spent a lot of time, wall construction has 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:54.199 destroyed sacred Sguardo's Sguardo's. That's the big cactus, Like when 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.640 you think of a cactus, right, like the cactus. 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With the two arms. 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.400 You could put a little hat on the actus if 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.960 you wanted to, maybe give it like a little six 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.480 shooter and it would look like it was a cowboy. Yeah, 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:10.960 it's the it's literally the cactus. It's in all the 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.680 Western films that were filmed out at Old Tucson there. Yeah, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.200 we used to ride our bikes from the passcalt Yaki 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.040 Reds to the place where they filmed all those Western films. 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.000 That that was our loop. A very very weird experience 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.760 that place. It's like a one day I will write 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.360 my fucking five part documentary about the myth of the 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:28.960 Old West. 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.880 But you can find it. You can find it there 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:32.440 in Tucson. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:37.840 The so what was people that aren't aware or afforded 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.080 the highest respect as ancestors by out on people, and 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.960 they play an important role in ceremonial and culinary traditions 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.400 that have been kept alive despite centuries of genocide and 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:51.000 similationist policies from state and local government. Under the Biden administration, 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:56.200 the Government Accountability Office wrote a report about damage done 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.680 by border wall construction. Again for now, this is on 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.640 the internet, and I will link it in the show notes. 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.240 I don't know how long that will remain on the internet. 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.840 It's a pdf, so like it's going to be out 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.520 and about that it can't be taken down, but maybe 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.960 it won't be on government websites. They highlighted the case 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.920 of Monument Hill, which was damaged by explosives in the 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.400 previous tramp administration, despite being a sacred place for Odham 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.040 and the site of ceremonies conducted by the here said Odham, 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.120 who are their ancestors. Kito Bakito Springs, which is a 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.079 sacred site and oasis in the Sonoran Desert and it's 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.840 a really special place, was irreparably damaged in the last 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.960 Trump administration, including the destruction of a burial site that 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.280 the Tripe had sought to protect. In some cases, the 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.160 Biden administration made this worse. One of those was that 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.720 on entering office, Biden said they were going to build 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:50.360 not one more foot of border wall. 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.680 In twenty twenty one. Right, he was full of shit. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.559 They built lots more border wall, but they did put 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.560 a pause on some of the contracts, right. It sort 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.680 of they finished some of them, and they were like, oh, 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.760 we can't go back on this federal funding, which has 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:04.880 not been an issue for Donald Trump. Four years later 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.840 they were in Congress approved it, so we have to 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.640 pay it, which was great. But the bits that they 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:17.200 were able to cut included a program that had people 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.960 taking care of so that they attempted to transplant the saguaros. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.920 They didn't just cut down because they were sacred, right 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.440 and they're very old. They wanted to take them somewhere else, 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.120 and this was part of sort of the agreement that 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.080 they came to. Unfortunately, the Biden administration cut the funding 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:34.680 for the people who were taking care of them in 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.439 their new location, so nearly all of them died. They 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.520 were being watered and stuff to get them settled into 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:46.920 their new route structure. And because the bid administration cutback funding, it' 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.199 stopped them from being watered, and so many of them 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.959 died in areas where barriers were built, but drainage colverts 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.880 were not finished. The coverts were never install So that 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.000 was the flooding I was talking about earlier. Right, Sometimes 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.320 they just went ahead and built war that when they 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.559 build the wall, it comes in about fifty foot sections, 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.640 and they truck those out there and like just put 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.160 them on the ground flat and pull them up right, 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.840 and they dig a foundation. They mix the sand, make 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.680 concrete and put the wall sections up. But then they 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.199 I guess it's my understanding that in the end of 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.000 the last Trump administration, Trump made a claim in a 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.959 debate about the number of miles of wall that had 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.960 been built, and that claim was largely inaccurate, but they 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.000 sort of started trying to expost factor justify it by 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.640 claiming repairs were miles of war right, And in the 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.760 final months of the Trump administration, maybe like from late 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.760 summer to January it was certainly to November, they would 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.120 really speed running wall construction, and part of that was 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.679 putting sections up where there should have been culverts and 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.040 just putting regular wall sections there and then attempting to 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.400 come back later and do the culverts, which because of 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.000 the funding pause, that didn't do. 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:00.160 So then we've seen a shoe. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.720 Woud change in how the desert drains, right, because it 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.920 backs up at the or the detritus or the dead 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.040 branches and stuff get caught in the wall, and then 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.000 the water gets sort of pushed along the wall until 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.320 it finds a weak point to undermine it, I'll. 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:12.800 Push it over. 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.559 Very little of this gets reported at all, Right, Occasionally 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.800 there are media moments when everyone wants to report on 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.520 the borders damage to indigenous communities, and we had one 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.480 in twenty twenty when they started destroying seguadas at the 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.440 Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. But these appear to be 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.120 when they just pop up like this, it seems like 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:38.880 it's without context or precedent, right, And when outlets ignore 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.320 Indigenous people for ninety percent of their border reporting, it 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.480 doesn't give the context it's necessary to explain these incidents, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:52.680 which are outrageous in decades of policy which has been outrageous. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.520 If our listeners are not aware that the border is 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.680 on Native land, all of it, just like all of America, right, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.040 it can seem confusing for them, right when they see 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.200 something like Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument and they think, well, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.160 that's not on a reservation, because a lot of outlets 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.440 don't give that context. Right that Obviously, reservations not contain 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.400 all spaces that are sacred to Indigenous people, and like 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.320 a reservation is a legal on not a cultural construct, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.120 it can seem alien to them. And lots of these 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:27.040 spaces that are being military that will be militarized under 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:32.680 it's Roosevelt Reservation declaration that the reservations are not militarized 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.800 under that, but spaces that are sacred to people still 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.640 will be. But because are reporting so oft to lacks 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.280 that context, people don't understand it. The admission of tribal 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.600 lands was again like missing in lots of pieces on 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.200 the Roosevelt Reservation right at Washington Post artic on the 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.840 ruds of reservation, the one that broke the story. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:52.960 It doesn't contain the word tribal. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.240 Lands at all, right, It doesn't mention the fact that 0:15:55.320 --> 0:16:09.400 these areas are not part of the militarization proclamation. The 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.000 problem here isn't just the ongoing a ragia indigenous people. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.440 It's a failure in basic journalistic practice. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:20.400 In my mind, right, we can't properly understand borders unless 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.840 we acknowledge the people they impact. There's no way I 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.960 could have experienced a dairy and gap in the way 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.400 that I did if it wasn't for the Mbire people 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.080 who literally let me live in their homes. Right Without 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.600 the same generosity that they showed to me, the people 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.600 crossing were die in much greater numbers. And it's precisely 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.920 because migrants arrive in indigenous villages and not in like 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.040 a government Panama, that a system exists where they're ferried 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.920 up river on those pitagwars that I reporse it on, right, 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.120 And it's precisely because they enter government custody at Las 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.040 blancas a place at the ap called of Riverport by 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.560 the way, which I mean, it's one of the more 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.240 miserable places that one can end up. It's terrible, and 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.160 calling it a river board fundamentally under cells how appalling, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.840 and it's what happens to people. People are stalled there 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.160 for months, right, and that is because they are entering 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.760 the system of bureaucracy, the system of the state, the 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:20.520 system of fees and identification papers and all these things. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.520 More importantly, I think we can't understand the relatively new 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.600 and invasive nature of borders, especially borders with physical barriers, 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.480 without acknowledging the much much longer history of indigenous people 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.439 moving freely through these areas. Like I said, it's not 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.240 just people, it's water and wildlife. And in all cases 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.359 the damage down will be unforeseen and likely irreparable. But 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.680 if we only treat the border of the rhetorical thing 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.960 like something to discuss in Congress, not a physical place, 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.439 then we miss what's really happening, and we miss the 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.480 people it really impacts. I don't want to pick solely 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.520 on that ape, it's a tendency in the whole US 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.200 right where the overwhelming media narrative eraises the existence of 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.840 indigenous people unless it's some kind of novelty or trope 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.040 through which they can be deployed. The direct example was 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.399 a particularly stark one to me to spend these amount 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.360 of time there, and I obviously have a great deal 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.880 of affection for the people who looked after me. But 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.720 as more and more laws are waived, both in terms 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.239 of border wall construction and human rights, more damage will 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.639 be done. It's already the case that people who speak 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:25.920 indigenous languages tend to have much worse outcomes in the 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.919 US immigration system, right. I've seen this first hand, Like 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.520 it could be very difficult when someone arrives and they speak, 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.680 you know, an indigenous language from Mexico, from Peru, from 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.000 these places where like the people speak these digitus languages 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.440 their first language, and it's hard for them to very 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.720 hard for them to get legal representation, right. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.400 Even US citizens. Like that incident from just a few 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.520 weeks ago, that nineteen year old was born in the 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:58.119 state of Georgia but primarily spoken Indigenous language was like 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.520 put into ice attention overnight. 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.280 Yeah, like which I think kind of these two narratives 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.920 sort of play into each other, right, Like because indigenous 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.960 people don't exist so much in so much coverage, it 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.960 can be much easier for the state to make them disappear, 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:14.680 right like like that guy. 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:18.320 Well yeah, and literally being arrested in charge with like 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.040 like entry as an unauthorized alien. 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:25.600 Yeah, like absolutely, and it's happened to indigenous people who 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.280 are like indigenous to the United States, right like yeah, 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:30.560 and it will continue to I think I've heard some 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.320 stuff about happening on a Navajorez relatively recently. Obviously, I 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.320 should say if that has happened to you, as someone 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.240 you know, you can reach out to us at cool Zone, 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:43.760 tips at proton dot me and like, I know that 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.040 there are lots of big border reporters, that big outlets 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.159 who fucking hate me, and I really don't care. I 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.399 just want to Like, any one person coming into this 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.600 country who needs a bottle of water is more important 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.080 to me than all of their collective opinions, right, Like 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.760 my job, it's not to make them happy. A job 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.440 is to tell the stories of the people who come 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:06.439 into this country and often suffer greatly to do so. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.879 I care more about them than like my ability to 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:12.960 be objective, which you know, I don't think we should 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:17.760 be objective in these situations, and like, I want to 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:23.400 kind of end on this idea of objectivity, because objectivity 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.159 I don't know. I'm glad that the Washington Post is 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.879 writing a story about Venezuelan teacher who got deported today. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.440 I'm glad that they're giving these people human faces now. 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.639 But it's fucking hard to look at the reporters who 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.919 wouldn't drive half an hour down a dirt road to 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.440 come and see people in concentration camps when Biden was president, 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.159 because I don't know, they were worried about getting their 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.359 rental car dirty, or they don't speak Spanish, or the 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.680 desert's cold at night. Like I don't know why people 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.959 didn't come. I suspect it's because their commitment to writing 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.320 about migrants is more a commitment to doing it when 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:57.920 it makes money than it is to doing it because 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.920 it's the right thing to do. Like when we write 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.159 these stories now about deportations being terrible, they seem to 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.360 pop up without context, right, and the context of how 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.240 these people came into this country and the amount that 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.840 they were forced to suffer by choice by the Biden administration. 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:19.920 In twenty twenty three, it's completely absent from these stories. Right, 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:24.399 Like the reason folks, some folks that are choosing to leave, 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.720 is because what they've seen of the US government a 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.040 week in an outdoor detention camp where the government didn't 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.320 even bring them food or water, right, and then their 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.880 passage through this system which doesn't give them a pathway 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.960 to permanent residency, which doesn't give them a pathway to citizenship, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.879 and then they see these deportations. Like from the migrant perspective, 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.680