Speaker 1: Episode four eighty two, How our nervous system impacts our
Speaker 1: spending decisions with Michelle Grocer.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life man. Here
Speaker 2: your hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are talking about
Speaker 1: the nervous system. So if you're a science geek or
Speaker 1: an anatomy and physiology geek, you're gonna love it. If
Speaker 1: you're not, you're still going to love it. I was
Speaker 1: very surprised by how I knew I was gonna love it.
Speaker 1: I was very surprised by how much it was going
Speaker 1: to impact me.
Speaker 3: There were a few moments where both of us were
Speaker 3: on the virgin teers.
Speaker 4: So and you're gonna want to stick around in.
Speaker 1: A short moment where I've passed that.
Speaker 3: Verge, Yeah this is a good one. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: you're about to listen to it, So we don't need
Speaker 3: to like beef it up all that much. But just
Speaker 3: to say, I think even the way that Michelle talks
Speaker 3: and presents these concepts and is in and of itself.
Speaker 4: Very calming and regulating, and then.
Speaker 3: She's giving us a ton of tips on how to
Speaker 3: do that this the way that it can impact our
Speaker 3: spending well, and we're just thrilled to be here. But first,
Speaker 3: this episode is brought to you by good kitchen tools.
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Speaker 3: a different theme, a different reason to keep coming back.
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Speaker 3: Frugal friendspodcast dot com to sign up for that friend letter,
Speaker 3: it's free. We're just here to help absolutely so. Michelle
Speaker 3: is a she's a former attorney and she's a nervous
Speaker 3: system expert and she's the host of the Calm Mom podcast,
Speaker 3: which so if you're a mom and you feel overwhelmeder stressed, like,
Speaker 3: definitely head over there and listen to a few of
Speaker 3: our episodes subscribe. But she uses somatic and neuroscience based
Speaker 3: modalities to coach women through discovering what's beneath their triggers
Speaker 3: and emotions so they can start their own healing, find
Speaker 3: peace and be present in and you know, their lives.
Speaker 3: So this episode is not just for moms, but her
Speaker 3: podcast is great for that, and it was really this
Speaker 3: is going to be like all of our episodes with
Speaker 3: a with a lens of how it impacts our money,
Speaker 3: but truly it's going to impact you in a lot
Speaker 3: of different other places in your life. And so if
Speaker 3: you're tuning into this, you might have some you know,
Speaker 3: some head things going on with you too. We get that,
Speaker 3: you know we're here. We've already done.
Speaker 1: Episodes for a few of those things because we feel
Speaker 1: it so profoundly. So we've got episode three ninety which
Speaker 1: is managing money with ADHD or any neurodivergence, and episode
Speaker 1: three forty three managing money with anxiety. So if you
Speaker 1: search for those in your podcast player plus Frugal Friends,
Speaker 1: you will find them, or you can search on our
Speaker 1: website Frugal friendspodcast dot com the episode number. So let's
Speaker 1: get into this talk about how this very tangible yet
Speaker 1: intangible thing, which is your nervous system, has a profound
Speaker 1: impact on how you make financial decisions and spend money.
Speaker 1: Let's do it, Michelle, Welcome to Frugal Freads podcast. We're
Speaker 1: so excited to have you here. I nerd out together.
Speaker 1: I'm very excited.
Speaker 5: Thanks so much for having me. It's gonna be great.
Speaker 3: This is such a unique topic for us, not that
Speaker 3: we don't talk about all things about our personhood and
Speaker 3: the way that that touches money, but this is certainly
Speaker 3: a topic we've not covered yet, and so when that happens,
Speaker 3: we love to bring experts on, like yourself. So this
Speaker 3: is just exciting for us too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's let's just start off with a bline.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about our nervous system. How does it
Speaker 1: impact how we spend money?
Speaker 6: Okay, so, our nervous system is like our body's command center, right,
Speaker 6: It's just like constantly running under the surface, gathering information
Speaker 6: everywhere we go, everything we do, and it has one
Speaker 6: job and its primary focus function always is our safety.
Speaker 6: So it's always out there like grabbing information, storing it
Speaker 6: away in our body and to ensure that we're safe.
Speaker 6: And we know from the neuroscience that our nervous system
Speaker 6: is actually making decisions about, you know, the things that
Speaker 6: we think, the risks we're willing to take, the things
Speaker 6: that we say our behaviors, more than ninety five percent
Speaker 6: of those being unconscious. Right, we're not even aware that
Speaker 6: our nervous system is running the show when we're doing
Speaker 6: these things, and obviously that impacts our spending decisions and
Speaker 6: how we think about finances and our patterns when it
Speaker 6: comes to finances and things that we've probably picked up
Speaker 6: when we were really young, right, how our parents talked
Speaker 6: about money or spent money, or just how that felt
Speaker 6: kind of in our home, and our associations with what
Speaker 6: it means to have wealth or not have wealth or
Speaker 6: all of these different things. Our nervous system is ultimately
Speaker 6: running the show. So when we can really start to identify, man,
Speaker 6: what are some patterns that are kind of hardwired into
Speaker 6: me when it comes to spending money, How does that
Speaker 6: relate ultimately to probably fears right? And then safety, which
Speaker 6: is our nervous system's job. And then how can I
Speaker 6: actually bring my nervous system to a place that it's
Speaker 6: not stuck in this kind of stress response which often
Speaker 6: shows up I think with money in a scarcity mindset.
Speaker 6: We talk about that a lot and hear that, but
Speaker 6: that's rooted in our nervous system. So we can be
Speaker 6: in a place where we can access the parts of
Speaker 6: our brain that allow us to make our best decisions
Speaker 6: and act right from like a logical, analytical place instead
Speaker 6: of impulse or just like running these old patterns that
Speaker 6: were like, man, why do I keep doing that? So
Speaker 6: when I think, one we can grow the awareness of
Speaker 6: how our nervous system impacts are spending, and then two
Speaker 6: actually have tools to like bring ourselves to a place
Speaker 6: of what we would call regulation in our nervous system.
Speaker 6: When we're operating fully conscious of what's going on, then
Speaker 6: we can make really good choices with our finances and frankly,
Speaker 6: with a lot of other.
Speaker 5: Things in our life too.
Speaker 1: Can you give an example of a spending decision that
Speaker 1: would be a result of a dysregulated nervous system, whether
Speaker 1: short term or long term.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I am right now. The business that I
Speaker 6: have right is I'm a nervous system and somatics coach.
Speaker 6: And there are so many clients that will come to
Speaker 6: me and they're like, yeah, but I've bought like fourteen
Speaker 6: other courses before, right, and I've never seen down and
Speaker 6: like actually do them and listen to them and carry
Speaker 6: them out into completion and do the actions that the
Speaker 6: coaches tell me to do in those programs. Those are
Speaker 6: spending decisions based on a disregulated nervous system. So at
Speaker 6: that point of purchase, there was something going on for
Speaker 6: them that was probably the scarcity mindset of like someone
Speaker 6: else has the solution that I don't have. I'm going
Speaker 6: to go out, I'm going to spend my money on this.
Speaker 6: This is going to solve my problems. And then you
Speaker 6: end up with all of these programs or whatever it is, right,
Speaker 6: all these planners, all these books, all these whatever stuff
Speaker 6: we spend our money on that we think is going
Speaker 6: to solve it. But really, under the surface, right, there's
Speaker 6: something going on there that's not allowing us to make
Speaker 6: decisions rationally and logically.
Speaker 4: M Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. It's interesting
Speaker 4: to me.
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of ways that we hear
Speaker 3: people come at and explain some of these different spending decisions,
Speaker 3: from you know, impulsive spending two behavioral economics to cognitive biases,
Speaker 3: to mindset shifts to now dysregulated nervous systems, and maybe
Speaker 3: it's a whole combination. But from your perspective, how might
Speaker 3: somebody distinguish between Okay, I might be operating out of
Speaker 3: dysregulation versus I need a mindset shift, or I need
Speaker 3: to look at my habits, or I need to understand
Speaker 3: cognitive biases. Like, how would you filter through these different things?
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially because you just already mentioned scarcity mindset and
Speaker 1: I think like so many people in our community struggle
Speaker 1: with that, including us, and we're just told, oh, you
Speaker 1: need a different mindset, you just need to work on
Speaker 1: your mindset.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I think that's such a good question. Here's
Speaker 5: what I think.
Speaker 6: I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think that it's
Speaker 6: actually our nervous system that's positioning us for each of
Speaker 6: those different things. So if it is a mindset issue,
Speaker 6: for example, there's a reason why we've been operating with
Speaker 6: that mindset, Right, there's something in our body that has
Speaker 6: felt unsafe that's caused us to enter what we call
Speaker 6: stress response, fight, flight freeze, or fond Those can probably
Speaker 6: show up in different spending habits and how we manage
Speaker 6: our money, and those can result in a mindset that
Speaker 6: doesn't serve us very well. So with the work that
Speaker 6: I do, a lot of it is in the body
Speaker 6: because what we know about the nervous system is actually
Speaker 6: like when you focus just on mindset stuff, So whether
Speaker 6: it's like scarcity mindset or any other mindsets that we
Speaker 6: have around money, only twenty percent of the nerves in
Speaker 6: our body actually run from our brain down to our body.
Speaker 6: So top down, what that means is that the other
Speaker 6: eighty percent of the messaging going on in our body,
Speaker 6: the large majority of it is from our body up
Speaker 6: to our brain. So we can like know, like how
Speaker 6: many of you guys have had a budget, Like, we
Speaker 6: know the things that we should be doing right, the
Speaker 6: actions we should be taking, but it's so flipping frustrating
Speaker 6: because we still don't do the things that we know
Speaker 6: we're supposed to do. That's because it's like a four
Speaker 6: to one tug of war our brain, our mindset can
Speaker 6: understand these things. If our bodies not on board, good luck.
Speaker 6: So we have to regulate our body through somatic practices
Speaker 6: and that's what I teach. And then when we get
Speaker 6: like the mindset and the body sending the same messages,
Speaker 6: that's when we can really see, you know, the growth
Speaker 6: that we want to see or the actions following through
Speaker 6: on the actions that we want to take.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting because we talk about that aspect
Speaker 1: of budgeting all the time, right, Like a budget is
Speaker 1: a great plan for your money, but if you don't
Speaker 1: have the skills to follow through with it, then it's
Speaker 1: just going to be this beautiful plan that never gets accomplished.
Speaker 1: And so so much of that is action, right. But
Speaker 1: we think a lot about how do we train our
Speaker 1: minds to choose these actions, but we don't talk a
Speaker 1: lot about how do we train our bodies to carry
Speaker 1: out these mind actions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm sure that we'll get there, but before
Speaker 3: we do, I am curious what you would say are
Speaker 3: some of the indicators that there is regulation happening, Because
Speaker 3: you also kind of mentioned there's some subconscious things going
Speaker 3: on we may not even be aware of it. So
Speaker 3: what would be some of the signals to know this
Speaker 3: is probably what's happening for me.
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, So when we are in a stress response,
Speaker 6: which means our nervous system is feeling dysregulated, fight flight, freeze.
Speaker 5: Are fond.
Speaker 6: Typically that's what we hear of as the stress response
Speaker 6: is that can show up somatically in our body and
Speaker 6: our actions and our words and our thoughts in different ways.
Speaker 6: So I usually like to think about it in like mental,
Speaker 6: emotional and then physical symptoms. So some of the mental
Speaker 6: and emotional symptoms that your nervous system is disregulated, and
Speaker 6: a lot of these it's so interesting we've thought of
Speaker 6: these as like our personality, like oh, that's just how
Speaker 6: I am, right, I'm just like super type A, or
Speaker 6: I'm just like busy all the time, or I just
Speaker 6: worry all the time, or I just have a really
Speaker 6: hard time slowing down, or I'm just a spender or
Speaker 6: whatever it is. Those would all be symptoms that your
Speaker 6: nervous system is dysregulated. Maybe it's anxiety, maybe it's edginess
Speaker 6: or irritability. Those are all like mental and emotional symptoms.
Speaker 6: And then on the physical side, when we are experiencing stress,
Speaker 6: our body sends us into one of those responses. It's
Speaker 6: not just like a mind thing, right, there's like a
Speaker 6: physiological response in our body. So if we see a
Speaker 6: bill come through that we weren't expecting, or that bank
Speaker 6: account drops below a certain number something, there's something that
Speaker 6: actually happens in our body when we perceive that, right,
Speaker 6: our body releases these stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline,
Speaker 6: and that does things like it can speed up our
Speaker 6: heart rate, or it can change even like our digestion
Speaker 6: or immune system over time if we don't deal with it.
Speaker 6: And then if it's chronic, that kind of stress is chronic,
Speaker 6: there's physical symm So maybe it's insomnia. Maybe you've dealt
Speaker 6: with gut issues that no one can really explain. Maybe
Speaker 6: you've had chronic muscle tension, right, that pain in your
Speaker 6: neck or your shoulders that just like doesn't go away,
Speaker 6: aching joints, even like autoimmune conditions, so often those are
Speaker 6: rooted in chronic stress, chronically dysregulated nervous system. And then
Speaker 6: those kind of symptoms that come from the inflammation of
Speaker 6: being in that heightened response. So a lot of different things.
Speaker 1: This is a little close to home for me. We
Speaker 1: are sitting here and we're we haven't we haven't talked
Speaker 1: about it on the podcast, but my body reacts very
Speaker 1: very poorly distress. And like two weeks ago, we're recording
Speaker 1: this in December, but two weeks ago I had a seizure,
Speaker 1: which is not my first seizure from there is no
Speaker 1: physiological reason except for stress, like is what has caused them?
Speaker 1: And internally in my head, I don't think I'm stressed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I'm fine. I'm managing everything very well. And
Speaker 1: then people will tell me back to me, like what's
Speaker 1: happening in my life for the past couple months, and
Speaker 1: it is, uh, it is just this whole is this
Speaker 1: wild disconnect between what I think is happening and what
Speaker 1: my body is processing is happening. It's wild what we
Speaker 1: don't connect. Yeah, and like so easy and that is
Speaker 1: a major, like extreme case. So like having like spending
Speaker 1: money on things we don't intend to or we don't
Speaker 1: want to. That's a small scale thing that everybody is
Speaker 1: doing on a daily basis. So now that we've now
Speaker 1: that we've gotten into that, now.
Speaker 3: That you disclosed very vulnerable information, Yeah, what do you
Speaker 3: think contributes to.
Speaker 1: Our anxieties? About money, like when we're speaking specifically about
Speaker 1: dysregulation anxiety money, Like, what can we do when our
Speaker 1: finances are stressing us out?
Speaker 5: Like if it was if it.
Speaker 1: Was money stressing me out, hypothetically that life brought me
Speaker 1: to health crisis.
Speaker 4: What hypothetically asking for a friend, what would you say?
Speaker 5: Okay, So this is.
Speaker 6: So good because I don't think it really matters so
Speaker 6: much the cause of your stress. So I can give
Speaker 6: you stuff around finances, but this will work for you too,
Speaker 6: because here's the thing. Our body doesn't understand a verbal language.
Speaker 6: So you cannot just tell your body that it's safe.
Speaker 6: You cannot just tell your body that it's going to
Speaker 6: be okay. You can't just tell yourself to chill out
Speaker 6: and calm down, like we've all tried that. It's not
Speaker 6: particularly effective because our body doesn't speak in that way,
Speaker 6: doesn't communicate in that way. How does our body communicate?
Speaker 6: What's the language of our body? Breath, movement, sound, touch,
Speaker 6: temperature changes. Those are all the ways that our body
Speaker 6: communicates and understands safety. So if we're having some of
Speaker 6: these disregulated symptoms, whether it's because of our finances or
Speaker 6: something else that's been stressful, in our life, right. Maybe
Speaker 6: it's a health condition, maybe it's a cross country move,
Speaker 6: maybe it's something with our kids going on. Maybe it's
Speaker 6: the lunch of a book or some big project or schedule.
Speaker 6: These are all things that are really stressful, and they
Speaker 6: can be good things too. Our body doesn't really know
Speaker 6: the difference. It just sees stressed, right. It doesn't really
Speaker 6: perceive good stress or bad stress or healthy stress or whatever.
Speaker 6: But it's released in the same way and we regulate
Speaker 6: in the same way. So we can talk about some
Speaker 6: different ways that we can show our body. Hey, chill out,
Speaker 6: it's okay, We're not gonna die. Right. This is like
Speaker 6: just just numbers in our bank account. Let's get ourselves
Speaker 6: to a regulated place. We can make good decisions about this,
Speaker 6: because no good decisions are made when we're just frantic,
Speaker 6: right and in fight or flight or whatever it is
Speaker 6: that's going on. When you learn how to use these
Speaker 6: body based tools to show your body instead of tell
Speaker 6: your body, hey, we're good, we can come out of
Speaker 6: a stress response. That's really where you start to see
Speaker 6: and notice a shift regardless of what's causing the stress.
Speaker 5: Does that make sense, Yes, very much so.
Speaker 3: And we're just laughing so much over here because oh,
Speaker 3: this is what we needed.
Speaker 4: Okay, So let's then talk about.
Speaker 3: That, because I think it is helpful for us to
Speaker 3: kind of then be able to know and when I
Speaker 3: think about what you're describing here, it makes a lot
Speaker 3: of sense. But I also know that when I come
Speaker 3: into these stressful experiences and I do kind of know
Speaker 3: what that feels like in my body, it will then
Speaker 3: send my mind on a tailspin. And then you're right,
Speaker 3: then there's reactions and behaviors that happen from that. So
Speaker 3: maybe talk us through certainly what we can do, but yeah,
Speaker 3: how do we pull ourselves back from our mind going
Speaker 3: and beginning to make those behaviors? Like what do we
Speaker 3: do before that to kind of regulate ourselves in those situations?
Speaker 5: Okay, so good? All right.
Speaker 6: So two things that I'll just kind of like offer
Speaker 6: us reminders and then we can kind of jump into it.
Speaker 6: So the first one is that our body will always
Speaker 6: lead and our mind will follow. It's not the other
Speaker 6: way around. So we actually have to regulate our body.
Speaker 6: And then you'll notice that your mindset will shift just
Speaker 6: even the way that our brain is structured, the part
Speaker 6: of our brain that sends that alarm system when we're
Speaker 6: feeling unsafe or whatever, stressed, whatever's going on, that part
Speaker 6: of our brain actually bypasses language and rational thought and
Speaker 6: all of these things. That's why we need to actually
Speaker 6: bring safety through movement or breath.
Speaker 5: Or sound or touch or those types of things. So
Speaker 5: what does that mean.
Speaker 6: That means that what's going on in our body can
Speaker 6: have a huge impact on our mindset, but what's going
Speaker 6: in what's going on with our mindset can only have
Speaker 6: a pretty small impact on what's going on in our body. Right,
Speaker 6: They're not like these equal impacts to each other. The
Speaker 6: second thing is that when you notice that that mindset
Speaker 6: is just kind of spiraling, right, you start ruminating worst
Speaker 6: case scenario. You know, your brain starts going to all
Speaker 6: of these crazy things that probably won't ever happen, but
Speaker 6: you feel yourself kind of getting amped up. That is
Speaker 6: a really great kind of red flag waving reminder to
Speaker 6: get out of your head and into your body. And
Speaker 6: that's what I coach my clients, like, Okay, we're going
Speaker 6: down that path. Get out of your head and into
Speaker 6: your body. That's what I tell myself when I start
Speaker 6: doing it. Gay Michelle like you're starting to worry about stuff.
Speaker 6: Get out of your head and into your body, and
Speaker 6: that's when we can start to use a lot of
Speaker 6: the body based somatic practices and tools that I teach.
Speaker 6: Bring safety to your body and your mind will follow.
Speaker 4: Beautiful, you share what some of the what if I had?
Speaker 1: Maybe, like after I evacuated a hurricane, like a flooded
Speaker 1: property in a small boat and a monster truck, Like,
Speaker 1: what should I have started after that to avoid like
Speaker 1: having a seizure several weeks.
Speaker 4: Later asking for a friend?
Speaker 6: Yeah, wow, I okay, So a little bit of backstory.
Speaker 6: But when I was in Miami for fifteen years I
Speaker 6: had I did property damage litigation, so all I was
Speaker 6: doing all day was helping hurricane victims and little did
Speaker 6: I know, I'm like, wow, the laws side of that
Speaker 6: with property damage ties so much into like it's trauma.
Speaker 6: It's those are traumatic events and the impact on our
Speaker 6: body and then teaching people what to do with that.
Speaker 6: So let's talk about it. Okay, so a lot of things.
Speaker 6: One one of the most common reasons that I see
Speaker 6: that we become, especially women, disregulated, is.
Speaker 5: Because we are not taught or we don't know what
Speaker 5: to do.
Speaker 6: With our really big emotions, so we repress and suppress them.
Speaker 6: That causes disregulation in our nervous system. So stuff like
Speaker 6: what you survived with a hurricane, first of all, that's terrifying.
Speaker 6: Second of all, there's probably a lot of like anger
Speaker 6: and maybe like rage tied to that, Like it's just
Speaker 6: so unfair, so many things lost, what your family had
Speaker 6: to go through, like I don't even know, but there's
Speaker 6: just a lot of emotion that can come with that,
Speaker 6: a lot of sadness that can come with that frustrating,
Speaker 6: and then we don't We just like make sure everyone
Speaker 6: else is okay around us, and we don't express or
Speaker 6: feel or release any of that. And that's like holding
Speaker 6: the superinflated beach ball underwater. It's really hard and it's
Speaker 6: really exhausting, and it takes up a lot of space
Speaker 6: and before we know it, it kind of pops up
Speaker 6: and it splashes all over everyone, and then we're like, man,
Speaker 6: what do I do with all of this? So that
Speaker 6: causes our system to be in this chronic state of
Speaker 6: stress and we don't know how to release that. So
Speaker 6: I think first it's like just that reminder that we
Speaker 6: have to have tools to handle our normal, expected, predictable
Speaker 6: emotions depending on what's going on in our life, right,
Speaker 6: and then to get out of our head and into
Speaker 6: our body, what does that look like? Something like that,
Speaker 6: I would imagine that you probably have a lot of
Speaker 6: active energy going on in your body based on an
Speaker 6: experience like that and whatever kind of stress. Right, A
Speaker 6: lot of us that tend to be high on that
Speaker 6: activity level. If our stress shows up as like anxiety,
Speaker 6: or it's just this like phrenetic energy, or we feel
Speaker 6: like we have to stay busy all the time and
Speaker 6: we can't slow down.
Speaker 5: That needs to be released.
Speaker 6: So some somatic ways to do that are one my
Speaker 6: favorite is shaking. So it's literally just like we see
Speaker 6: it with our pets, right, Like if our dog, my
Speaker 6: dog sees a squirrel in the backyard and he like
Speaker 6: bam out the door. He's out chasing that squirrel. He
Speaker 6: was thrown into this stress response. But what does he
Speaker 6: do after that to like regulate his nervous system. He shakes,
Speaker 6: He like shakes it off. We've all seen animals do
Speaker 6: that in the wild. We're wired the same exact way.
Speaker 6: So it's literally what it sounds like in like sixty
Speaker 6: to ninety seconds of just standing up and like shaking
Speaker 6: out your body, shake out your arms, shake out your legs,
Speaker 6: like if you want to put on one of your
Speaker 6: favorite like dance songs and just kind of wiggle and
Speaker 6: shake and move. Sixty to ninety seconds, you will notice
Speaker 6: a mark shift in the state of your nerves system
Speaker 6: as it releases a lot of pent up energy. And
Speaker 6: then you can introduce a practice that feels really soothing
Speaker 6: and regulating for your nervous system. So maybe it's like
Speaker 6: a five minute breathwork meditation, or maybe it's just havening
Speaker 6: right and putting your hands, crossing your hands in front
Speaker 6: of your chest, on your shoulders, and kind of gently
Speaker 6: squeezing down to your elbows across your forearms in a
Speaker 6: way that feels really soothing. Maybe it is just practices
Speaker 6: of like orienting yourself. Sometimes when we go through things
Speaker 6: that feel really stressful, the way that our nervous system
Speaker 6: responds is kind of to detach. Right, this is way
Speaker 6: too much. I'm just going to kind of like shut
Speaker 6: down and space out, and I'm going to find myself
Speaker 6: right scrolling a lot or on Netflix, or just on
Speaker 6: of zoning out.
Speaker 5: My kids are like mom, mom, or like what like, I'm.
Speaker 6: Just not not present, right, That's a very normal response
Speaker 6: to a lot of stress for a system. So bringing
Speaker 6: yourself back to the present, orienting yourself, grounding yourself, going
Speaker 6: through your five senses. What are five things I see?
Speaker 6: What are four things that I hear? Are three things
Speaker 6: I can touch? Just really simple practices to get out
Speaker 6: of your head into your body. Those bring safety, Those
Speaker 6: bring regulation to your to your system, and then your
Speaker 6: mind will follow.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is kind of mind mind blowing. What is
Speaker 1: the difference between this stuff and something like exercise? Because
Speaker 1: I'm an active person runner, I lift weights and that
Speaker 1: is what I was using to kind of regulate the
Speaker 1: cortisol in my body to avoid this, and I'm like
Speaker 1: kind of beating myself up because it didn't it didn't work.
Speaker 1: But now you're talking about like completely different stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's the difference? Okay, this is this is so good too.
Speaker 1: Nothing heals by pushing harder. So movement is so important
Speaker 1: to a regulated nervous system. But when we push ourselves
Speaker 1: in our exercise routine, if we're already at the edge
Speaker 1: of the capacity of our nervous system, exercise ultimately is
Speaker 1: a stress on our body right, lifting really heavy weights,
Speaker 1: hit workouts right, exerting ourselves. That can be enough if
Speaker 1: we're already at the edge to send our body over
Speaker 1: its limit into one of these stress responses. So you know,
Speaker 1: if you're in a place or season of life where
Speaker 1: you're not experiencing a lot of stress, those types of
Speaker 1: exercises can be really good if you're And I'll speak
Speaker 1: for myself on the same way, like I have to
Speaker 1: check in in the morning.
Speaker 6: There are mornings where I can have a cup of
Speaker 6: coffee and do a hit workout and I'm fine. There
Speaker 6: are mornings where I know I'm already at the edge
Speaker 6: of the limit of my nervous system and I skip
Speaker 6: the and I just sit on the ground and stretch
Speaker 6: and go for a walk around the block because I
Speaker 6: know that I don't have the bandwidth to handle more
Speaker 6: stress on my system in that moment. And it kind
Speaker 6: of goes back to when I was talking about our
Speaker 6: nervous system isn't good at distinguishing different types of stress.
Speaker 6: Stress is stress. So yes, kudos to you and wanting
Speaker 6: to move your body to help deal with the stress.
Speaker 6: I think I don't think that's anything to beat yourself
Speaker 6: up over. I think that's actually a really intuitive response
Speaker 6: and pretty wise. It's just that when we're already experiencing
Speaker 6: a ton of stress. Otherwise we have to be careful
Speaker 6: because movement, really intense movement like that can be enough
Speaker 6: to send us over over our limit what our body
Speaker 6: can handle.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate the way that you're connecting the dots
Speaker 3: here for us. I think there's a lot of familiar
Speaker 3: things here, and then there's a lot of pieces that
Speaker 3: make sense, but maybe we haven't totally put into the
Speaker 3: puzzle yet, and so I just appre the way that
Speaker 3: you're describing this and what I'm also hearing from you,
Speaker 3: and you know, even my own understanding of our nervous
Speaker 3: system is that it is there to protect us, and
Speaker 3: there are situations where we need that survival instinct of fight, flight, freeze, fawn.
Speaker 3: Like Jen, you needed to get out of a flooding house,
Speaker 3: and what your body did to do that was necessary.
Speaker 3: But then we don't often think about, Okay, that was
Speaker 3: a huge experience. My body was flooded with all sorts
Speaker 3: of things, and now there are actions that need to
Speaker 3: be taken to regulate once I have found safety here.
Speaker 3: And similarly, with financial things, there are times where it
Speaker 3: makes sense that this is scary. We receive a large,
Speaker 3: unexpected bill and we know we don't have the money.
Speaker 4: To cover it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that disrupts safety and stability. So it's not necessarily
Speaker 3: about pushing back again what's happening and what our body
Speaker 3: is trying to tell us and alert us to, but
Speaker 3: the ways that we can care for ourselves in the
Speaker 3: midst of that, and then following that, and so with that,
Speaker 3: as we kind of like wrap up this very lovely conversation,
Speaker 3: I'm curious if you could say, like speak to that
Speaker 3: piece of what we might be able to see on
Speaker 3: the other side than related to spending decisions. Like we've
Speaker 3: kind of come to this understanding we're starting to implement
Speaker 3: a few of these somatic body movements. What could we
Speaker 3: expect to see then in re entering the thing that
Speaker 3: maybe cause that anxiety, How we might expect to make
Speaker 3: better decisions there?
Speaker 6: Okay, First of all, that was a beautiful summary of
Speaker 6: like bringing it all together. So yes, and then what
Speaker 6: happens when we're regulated? Okay, So when we are regulated
Speaker 6: and we have that safety in our nervous system, we
Speaker 6: have access to our prefrontal cortex, which is the part
Speaker 6: of our brain that makes good decisions. It's the part
Speaker 6: of our brain that can see things from different perspectives.
Speaker 6: It's the part of our brain that has access to
Speaker 6: higher language. It's the part of our brain that can
Speaker 6: analyze things. So you know, it doesn't take a lot
Speaker 6: to understand why that would be really important in our
Speaker 6: spending habits and how we make money. So I think
Speaker 6: it would be an awesome practice, Like if you have
Speaker 6: you know, family budget meetings, or if you sit down
Speaker 6: regularly and take a look at your finances, or even
Speaker 6: just like opening your mail or opening your inbox, like
Speaker 6: before you do that wherever your bills come in, can
Speaker 6: you do like ten jumping jacks, shake your whole body
Speaker 6: out for ten seconds, take a deep breath, and then
Speaker 6: go into that practice or that conversation or what have you,
Speaker 6: because it'll have a big impact. And then what happens, Well,
Speaker 6: then you're not operating out of fear, right, It's like
Speaker 6: you take the fear glasses off and that lens is removed,
Speaker 6: and instead of seeing things with all of your filters
Speaker 6: and all of your biases and all of your past
Speaker 6: and your patterns, you have more capability to see things
Speaker 6: as they actually are. Right, you feel more empowered as
Speaker 6: you go into it. Instead of the worst case scenario.
Speaker 6: You're more in a place where you can come up
Speaker 6: with a plan or make a call or whatever it
Speaker 6: is that you need to do, instead of being frozen
Speaker 6: in fear, feeling really angry, or being so anxious that
Speaker 6: you're avoiding what needs to be done. So ultimately, with
Speaker 6: a regulated nervous system, you can show up and put
Speaker 6: into practice all of the tools that you have, right,
Speaker 6: all of the things that you learn on a show
Speaker 6: like this that you know but are really hard to
Speaker 6: carry out when you're stuck in by or flight or
Speaker 6: freeze or fun.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, that's just we love the prefrontal cortex,
Speaker 1: and we love good decision making and helping our brains
Speaker 1: make good decisions, and this is just one more way
Speaker 1: to help our brains do that. And I'm just I've
Speaker 1: loved this conversation.
Speaker 3: Do you know what else we love and feels regulating
Speaker 3: to us.
Speaker 1: It's definitely not a fight or a flight or a
Speaker 1: freeze or aphon.
Speaker 4: It's the bill of the wei.
Speaker 7: That's right. It's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 7: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 7: is William. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage. Maybe your
Speaker 7: car died and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 7: that bill anymore.
Speaker 2: That bills bffalo bills, Bill clion.
Speaker 1: This is the bill of the week, Michelle. Every week
Speaker 1: we yell at our guests and our listeners.
Speaker 4: Now I'm realizing that might not be the Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do that so many times every week, Michelle.
Speaker 1: This is my life. I'm yelling at people and asking
Speaker 1: them to share their bill of the week. I would
Speaker 1: love to hear yours.
Speaker 4: So good.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this came through like my like, in prepar and
Speaker 6: preparing for this conversation, I'm like, this is brilliant and
Speaker 6: one of my favorite things that I've ever seen. Okay,
Speaker 6: here's my bill of the week. Before I started doing
Speaker 6: this work, right, I had a law firm and I
Speaker 6: spent fifteen years looking at and reading and preparing bills
Speaker 6: of sale.
Speaker 5: So I'm bringing you guys a bill of sale, and I.
Speaker 6: Am selling all of the stuff that we don't need anymore. Right,
Speaker 6: I'm selling like hustle culture. I'm selling all of these
Speaker 6: stress responses. I'm selling like jumping out of bed and
Speaker 6: being busy first thing in the morning. I'm selling frivolous
Speaker 6: spending around the holidays, or this use of spending and
Speaker 6: emercializing everything in order to feel connected to the people
Speaker 6: we love. Like I'm just I'm bringing a whole big
Speaker 6: bill of sale that you guys can take and sell
Speaker 6: all this stuff too.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know we're selling llo because everybody listening
Speaker 1: is on the same path.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's gonna be a bill we don't pay unless
Speaker 3: unless the trash company will come and pick it up
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 4: Then I'll pay the trash company for that.
Speaker 1: They're still hauling junk away in Piel's County, so everywhere,
Speaker 1: still all over the roads or these big double dump
Speaker 1: like trucks.
Speaker 4: Back it up.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 4: So creative, Michelle.
Speaker 3: Wow, if you all listening, have a bill that you
Speaker 3: want to submit, if it's creative, if it's a bill
Speaker 3: that you don't need anymore, a bill you don't mind paying,
Speaker 3: a bill for the trash that you're throwing out. Whatever
Speaker 3: it is, your name is Bill, Google, friendspodcast dot com,
Speaker 3: slash bill. We can't wait to hear it. And now
Speaker 3: it's time for I'm gonna go quiet today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, usually her lightning rounds are very aggressive. And we
Speaker 1: actually got we got a review, thankfully, it was five stars,
Speaker 1: but they did comment the first time they heard the
Speaker 1: lightning run it was.
Speaker 5: Alarming, quite alarming.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and not today, and I mad do that day.
Speaker 4: We're going to regulate you today because those shells here.
Speaker 1: What is a recent money situation that felt overwhelming to
Speaker 1: you and how did you handle it?
Speaker 6: Oh? My gosh, Okay, so like two months ago, now,
Speaker 6: I guess my family just moved from Miami to Houston.
Speaker 6: I had I've moved cross country, never with kids and
Speaker 6: owning a house, and there were just so many money
Speaker 6: decisions there, even the cost of moving, like the guy
Speaker 6: that came to her house and walked around for six
Speaker 6: minutes with the clipboard telling us what it was going
Speaker 6: to cost to move our stuff, Like I could not
Speaker 6: believe it. So that was really alarming and felt very
Speaker 6: disregulating to my nervous system. But how did I handle it?
Speaker 6: I I this actually what I did. I jumped in
Speaker 6: my swimming pool and I just started doing laps. And
Speaker 6: then once I could think straight, I sat down with
Speaker 6: my husband and we came up with a plan and
Speaker 6: we actually decided not to use a moving company and
Speaker 6: we put We had a huge garage sale, sold a
Speaker 6: bunch of stuff, rented a small pod, and moved across country.
Speaker 5: WHOA, so good.
Speaker 3: That's the benefit of living in Miami at the time?
Speaker 3: Or wait, was your was the pool in Miami or
Speaker 3: Houston in Miami? Yeah? Okay, yeah, yeah, so you left
Speaker 3: it behind, but it did benefit you for a time.
Speaker 1: Is that why people get cold plunges? Is that a
Speaker 1: nervous system thing? Wyo?
Speaker 4: Okay, who knows if they know.
Speaker 1: I don't know why they're doing it, You know what,
Speaker 1: I don't know if they do. This is so true,
Speaker 1: but it.
Speaker 2: Makes me.
Speaker 4: It looks like I'm being gritty.
Speaker 1: Right, I've never done it, but okay, I think it
Speaker 1: makes more sense to me. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: will do it now.
Speaker 3: Still I have done it, and I do like it,
Speaker 3: like I don't love it while it's happening.
Speaker 4: Necessarily, but it is. It is calming.
Speaker 5: I'm skeptical.
Speaker 3: I'm just we can't find cold water here in Florida,
Speaker 3: so it's just no.
Speaker 1: It just makes it more shocking to get out of
Speaker 1: the cold plunge because it's so hot out on the outside. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just feels like it would be more shocking.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 1: Anyways, back on topic, recent money situation that felt overwhelming
Speaker 1: to me. So we just got approved for the My
Speaker 1: Safe Florida Home grant that gets us ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: for either something hurricane safe, and we have chosen windows,
Speaker 1: and in order to spend that tenth out to get
Speaker 1: the max of that ten thousand dollars, we have to
Speaker 1: spend at least five thousand, which in order to get
Speaker 1: an even amount of windows means spending nine thousand, which
Speaker 1: means putting eleven thousand down for it, because that's the
Speaker 1: cost of the windows. So I'll get money back, but
Speaker 1: like I still have to put eleven thousand dollars down
Speaker 1: for windows I don't want and will not increase the
Speaker 1: value of this house that I plan to sell in
Speaker 1: several years and will not benefit from because they are
Speaker 1: on the second story of the back of the house
Speaker 1: that we use as a rental. And that is over.
Speaker 5: So what did I do?
Speaker 3: You haven't done anything yet, right, We're in the middle
Speaker 3: of it, so now you know, so.
Speaker 1: Now definitely going to be shaking. Now I know what
Speaker 1: to do. I'm going to be shaking.
Speaker 3: I think we probably need like more informat, like I
Speaker 3: think we need a follow up to that's because I
Speaker 3: think our implementation of this one episode's going to be
Speaker 3: a little wild, but we'll play around.
Speaker 1: Michelle has opened up can of worms that may or
Speaker 1: may not be good for the show.
Speaker 3: So for me, I did talk already about the trees
Speaker 3: that fell on our property and our house, and I'm
Speaker 3: not going to go there right now. You can listen
Speaker 3: to other episodes to find out about that I'm going
Speaker 3: to pick. I was looking into flights to go to
Speaker 3: see family for Christmas and was planning on booking this
Speaker 3: one ticket their tickets and as I was checking out,
Speaker 3: the prices doubled. As I didn't think that that was legal.
Speaker 3: They could just change the prices when you're in the
Speaker 3: process of checking out, but it happened, and so that
Speaker 3: was overwhelming to me because it was already a lot
Speaker 3: of money, and then to double that amount was just
Speaker 3: beyond what I was willing to spend and it made
Speaker 3: me sweaty. So I just walked away. I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna let this cause me a sense of urgency,
Speaker 3: and now I think I'm gonna stay put for Christmas,
Speaker 3: So I mean, I'm good with that though. I really
Speaker 3: a quiet Christmas after this book launch sounds great and
Speaker 3: I think Michelle would agree, if I can speak for you.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's how I handled that. I walked away
Speaker 3: and I said, nope, not today, You're not taking my money.
Speaker 3: But had I had this conversation earlier, maybe I would
Speaker 3: have done some jumping jacks, but I still just would
Speaker 3: have walked away. I'm not I'm not doing that anyways, Michelle,
Speaker 3: this was incredible. Wish we had at least two more
Speaker 3: hours with you, and our audience probably does too. So
Speaker 3: if they can get at least two more hours with you,
Speaker 3: where can they find you?
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6: You can find me on my podcast. It's called The
Speaker 6: Mom and it's all we talk about. There is nervous
Speaker 6: system solutions for anxiety, overwhelm and burn out. You guys
Speaker 6: should come listen. We're having Jen and Jill on the podcast,
Speaker 6: so you can come hear them on my show, and
Speaker 6: then you can find me on my website Michelle Grocer
Speaker 6: dot com.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Michelle, this has been fantastic. I
Speaker 1: speak for myself and.
Speaker 4: Hopefully and your friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and my friends, my hypothetical friend, thanks for being here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a lot. We had to wait a little
Speaker 1: while to record this intro outro. I think to give
Speaker 1: ourselves a little space between it, just to.
Speaker 4: Let it all sync in I think a bit.
Speaker 3: And like we said, it's not as if some of
Speaker 3: this is entirely new information. I just really appreciated the
Speaker 3: way that she presented it and helped us understand how
Speaker 3: each thing connects with the others. I think sometimes we've
Speaker 3: got these pieces that are just out there, disconnected, Like
Speaker 3: we've heard of somatic movement, we've heard of flight flight freeze,
Speaker 3: we've heard of overspending. But okay, how do all of
Speaker 3: these play together? How do we integrate our whole personhood? So, yes,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of congruence with our messaging, but I
Speaker 3: think on this specific topic to really see how it
Speaker 3: all flows together and the simple practices that we can
Speaker 3: be doing to help ourselves on a regular basis as
Speaker 3: we inevitably hit these points.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that it's life changing. I think
Speaker 1: it is definitely mind changing in that I overlooked this
Speaker 1: stuff and the impact it could have physically and I
Speaker 1: think this hit me because I was just having a
Speaker 1: conversation with a friend last night about how our bodies
Speaker 1: somehow we got into our mid thirties and our bodies
Speaker 1: started doing things because of stress when normally all our
Speaker 1: lives we've been very chill, people like, very even keeled.
Speaker 1: Nobody would describe either of us as super emotional, and
Speaker 1: we've really prided ourselves and then taken that identity on.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that the emotions in the stress
Speaker 1: are not there in our body. And so to have
Speaker 1: that conversation last night and then to have this conversation
Speaker 1: today was very timely. So I hope it's helped you,
Speaker 1: maybe give you another tool in your tool belt when
Speaker 1: thinking about why your actions are not aligning with what
Speaker 1: your head says you want to do. And if it
Speaker 1: has helped you in some way, we'd love for you
Speaker 1: to leave a rating and review on Apple or a
Speaker 1: rating and comment on Spotify, kind of like this one.
Speaker 1: It's from Kathleen one two, three, happens to be five
Speaker 1: stars says it's not too late. I was never taught
Speaker 1: about money. In fact, I was taught to never talk
Speaker 1: about it, and it was only through finding the Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast that I realized I could educate myself. Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends makes learning about new ways of thinking around money
Speaker 1: and frugality easy and friendly. The hosts seem like empathetic
Speaker 1: people who've been there, done that, and are giving you
Speaker 1: their best advice from those experiences. I feel hopeful about
Speaker 1: the future now. I'm making changes and have told friends
Speaker 1: who are now listening, which means hey, I have frugal
Speaker 1: friends too.
Speaker 4: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: So thank you, Kathleen one two three. That's such a
Speaker 3: kind review. We so appreciate this kind of helpful feedback
Speaker 3: and encouragement for others to kind of know what they're
Speaker 3: going to find when they tune in.
Speaker 4: So these reviews are so so helpful for us.
Speaker 3: If you're listening and you haven't taken a chance to
Speaker 3: leave us a rating and review wherever you're listening, please
Speaker 3: do that. It would mean the world to us.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni Jill. I have
Speaker 1: a question that I should have asked during the interview. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking of I don't know it. I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there don't know it. What
Speaker 1: does fawn mean because y'all are saying fight flight, freeze fawn, right,
Speaker 1: and I know fight flight and I freeze. I know
Speaker 1: how to do those right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: What is fun fawn is it's adjacent to freezing, but
Speaker 3: kind of like a more timid approach to it, So
Speaker 3: like you're not incredibly frozen, but you have like this
Speaker 3: timid reaction. Now I'm realizing I'm not describing this very well.
Speaker 4: So here we go with Google.
Speaker 1: Yes, our friend who's like our frenemy in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4: I know Google has not been there. It's great.
Speaker 1: It's really been bad for our business.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like people pleasing behaviors avoiding the real danger or threat.
Speaker 3: So it's not an entirely like you're not running away,
Speaker 3: but you're but you're not freezing.
Speaker 8: You're going with you're just kind of like yeah, okay,
Speaker 8: like a little baby fond deer where you're just like
Speaker 8: timidly responding to it, not pushing back to that circumstantial Yeah.
Speaker 8: I think it's a It's been an addition in the
Speaker 8: last couple of years to those like three kind of
Speaker 8: known responses to help us understand some of the more
Speaker 8: nuances that can happen when it comes to certain type
Speaker 8: of like threatening circumstances, that there's there's something kind of
Speaker 8: in between there where it's not just a frozen response.
Speaker 8: I'm not doing nothing. I am doing something, but it's
Speaker 8: certainly not fighting.
Speaker 1: M okay, got it. Like when riesand goes to in
Speaker 1: the the Queen I forget her name, but he like protects,
Speaker 1: he goes around with her and pretends to be like
Speaker 1: her minion, but he like.
Speaker 3: It is a survival Yeah, that would be a survival instinct. Absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's not. I mean, I guess you could argue that's
Speaker 3: a version of fighting. But he goes out, he kills
Speaker 3: a lot, you know, guy, Yeah, fight, he's freeze.
Speaker 4: He's not running away. He's not frozen exactly.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wow, way to bring in Akatar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now you're welcome.