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Speaker 1: Hi everyone. For our returning listeners, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. I think you're really going to like

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Speaker 1: the show today. Now, for those of you who are

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Speaker 1: new to the show, welcome to my pod squad. If

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Speaker 1: you came here because the pod Save America guys recommended us.

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Speaker 1: The conversation is gonna sound very familiar because you've probably

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Speaker 1: already heard it. It's my interview with John Favreau, John Lovett,

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Speaker 1: and Tommy Vitor from Crooked Media. But since you like

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Speaker 1: that podcast, I thought i'd recommend a couple of my

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Speaker 1: favorite episodes of this podcast. A great place to start

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Speaker 1: is our conversation with Alec Baldwin. It was I think

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Speaker 1: the only time he's done is Trump impression outside of SNL.

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Speaker 1: Not only did Alec crack us up, he also made

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Speaker 1: us think because this is a guy with a fascinating

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Speaker 1: story and strong opinions and, as the President might say,

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Speaker 1: a really good brain. Another episode I really liked is

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Speaker 1: with m and named Bill Browder. Now you may not

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Speaker 1: have heard of him, but his life has really been

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Speaker 1: right out of a spy novel. He was once the

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Speaker 1: biggest foreign investor in Russia until he was kicked out

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Speaker 1: of the country and then his young lawyer was killed.

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Speaker 1: He has a fascinating, scary perspective on Vladimir Putin and

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Speaker 1: the new Russia. And coming soon I'm really excited about this,

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Speaker 1: My co host Brian Goldsmith and I will be interviewing

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Speaker 1: Tony Robbins, the great entrepreneur and leadership coach to c

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Speaker 1: e o s and presidents. I can't wait for his

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Speaker 1: perspective on Donald Trump's particular style of leadership. So to

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Speaker 1: all the newbies, please let us know what you think.

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Speaker 1: Just email us at comments at Current podcast dot com

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Speaker 1: or leave us a voicemail. We love getting those at

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Speaker 1: nine to nine, two to four, four, six, three seven.

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Speaker 1: You can also reach out to me on social media.

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Speaker 1: I'm at Katie Kurrik on Twitter and Instagram and Katie

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Speaker 1: dot Kurrik on Chat. Few lots of social media platforms

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Speaker 1: to keep up with. Anyway, without further delay, here's our

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Speaker 1: show and thank you for listening. Hi Brian, Hi Katie. Well,

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Speaker 1: as you know, because you're a real student of podcasts. Brian.

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Speaker 1: Pod Save America is one of the hottest political podcasts

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Speaker 1: in the country right now. It's basically four white dudes

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Speaker 1: sitting around talking about the state of the country and

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Speaker 1: bitching about Donald Trump. Is that a fair assessment. I

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Speaker 1: think that's pretty fair. And they would also add that

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Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out how to harness all this

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Speaker 1: progressive anti Trump energy in a constructive direction. And they

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Speaker 1: know politics like the back of their hands. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these guys have a lot of experience because they're all

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Speaker 1: alumni of the Obama administration. Correct, that's right. The three

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Speaker 1: guys you spoke to all worked in the Obama white House.

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Speaker 1: Jon Favreau was President Obama's head speech writer at a

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Speaker 1: very young age. Tommy Vitour was President Obama's national security spokesman.

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Speaker 1: And John Lovett is kind of the funny guy. He

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Speaker 1: helped Obama with the White House correspondence dinners and he

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Speaker 1: also previously worked as a speechwriter for Hillary Clinton. So

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Speaker 1: they're not just commenting on politics, they actually they really

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Speaker 1: know it. And Dan Peiffer sometimes participates as well. He

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Speaker 1: was the White House Communications director and Senior advisor for

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Speaker 1: Strategy and Communications. Wow, how do you fit that on

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Speaker 1: his business card in the Obama administration? And John love It,

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Speaker 1: by the way, is not the John love that you

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Speaker 1: might remember if you're a certain age the one who said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the ticket on Saturday Night Live. And Jon Favreau

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Speaker 1: is not the director of Iron Man either or the

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Speaker 1: star of Chef. It's a different Jon Favreau. Anyway, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of fun They have a lot to say,

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Speaker 1: and they're really trying to, as you said, harness the

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Speaker 1: energy that has surfaced in the wake of the Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump presidency. And uh, we had a very fun conversation

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Speaker 1: about a lot of things. I quick Lee took over

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Speaker 1: as the interviewer. Didn't take long because they said, don't

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Speaker 1: you want to ask us any questions I got. I

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Speaker 1: think they got tired of me or board with me

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Speaker 1: pretty early on. I don't think so. I think everybody's

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Speaker 1: just comfortable with you asking questions because you have a

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Speaker 1: little more experience than they do. Anyway, Well, unfortunately, because

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Speaker 1: of challenging technical issues, Brian, you couldn't participate in this conversation.

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Speaker 1: I know you were listening, however, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about it on the other side and pick

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Speaker 1: apart some of the things that the hosts of this

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Speaker 1: podcast had to say. So enough preamble, Let's get to

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Speaker 1: my conversation with the hosts of Pod Save America, Jon Favreau,

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Speaker 1: Tommy Vitour and John Lovett and Dan Fifer's here isn't

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Speaker 1: he sorry? Let me do that again? Okay, I think

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Speaker 1: we should leave this in where the hell is Dan?

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Speaker 1: Who cares? Just kidding, just kidding. So you guys want

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Speaker 1: to go first? Sure? Sure? So. Um We'll start with

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Speaker 1: Trump's burgeoning relationship with the news media. Last week, the

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Speaker 1: big news was Trump tweeting, the fake news media is

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Speaker 1: not my enemy. It is the enemy of the American people.

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Speaker 1: My question to you is, how dangerous do you think

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Speaker 1: it is for Trump to uh to cast the media

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Speaker 1: is the enemy American people? Or do you think it's dangerous?

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Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say, how dangerous are you? Katie? Correct?

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Speaker 1: Very dangerous. In fact, my nickname is Katie Danger. No. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think it is incredibly dangerous. Um. I think we've

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Speaker 1: seen him go down this road, but I think it

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Speaker 1: was a brought to a new level with that recent tweet. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's gotten sort of progressively worse in terms of his

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Speaker 1: relationship with the press. Clearly he's trying to delegitimize the press,

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Speaker 1: just as he's trying to delegitimize the judiciary and the

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Speaker 1: entire electoral process, you know, these democratic institutions, because it

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Speaker 1: gives him more credibility. It makes it harder for people

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Speaker 1: to take criticism of his policies or what he's doing seriously,

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Speaker 1: at least a certain portion of the population. So I

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Speaker 1: find it really depressing, dispiriting, And I think the press

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Speaker 1: is still trying to figure out the media writ large

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Speaker 1: how to handle And when you talk about the media

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Speaker 1: writ large, of course you're talking about very bifurcated media

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Speaker 1: organizations because you have the conservative press on one side

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Speaker 1: and a more progressive press, and you know, I think

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Speaker 1: there are fewer and fewer that can be considered sort

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Speaker 1: of straddling both worlds. So I think people are scratching

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Speaker 1: their heads, saying, how do we deal with this as

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Speaker 1: news organizations? How do we regain the trust if you will,

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Speaker 1: Because one thing he said that was accurate in his

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Speaker 1: press conference is the approval rating for the media is

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Speaker 1: lower than the approval rating for Congress. And I think,

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Speaker 1: how do you handle a problem like the old Trump

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Speaker 1: to quote, you know, the sound of music EXTETI revent

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Speaker 1: van Trop von Trapp or whatever. So I think I

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Speaker 1: don't know what The solution is, I think that the

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Speaker 1: media has to resist getting sucked into these personal battles

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Speaker 1: and has and has to try as much as it

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Speaker 1: can to really focus on the policy positions he's taken

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Speaker 1: and some of the things that he needs to be

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Speaker 1: held accountable for, the relationship with Russia and what that means,

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Speaker 1: and get to the bottom of that. I don't think

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Speaker 1: investigative reporting has ever been so important as it is now.

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Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, they need to spend

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Speaker 1: less time focused on his tweets and his style and

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Speaker 1: more time focused on the substance of his policies. What

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Speaker 1: do you guys think? Yeah, no, I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you see this sort of challenge,

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Speaker 1: which is when Trump says something like, you know, the

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Speaker 1: media is the enemy. There's nothing that a lot of

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Speaker 1: the press corps likes to do more than kind of

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Speaker 1: naval gaze and discuss their own relevance and role. But

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Speaker 1: yet at the same time, it is important to figure

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Speaker 1: out what you do and how you cover a president

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Speaker 1: who says these things about the press. So I guess

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Speaker 1: the question would be, you know, how do you respond

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Speaker 1: and hold the line against the president who declares the

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Speaker 1: media the enemy, while at the same time not letting

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Speaker 1: it distract from the importance of that kind of investigative role,

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Speaker 1: policy role, substantive role. Well, I think yeah, And I also,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was thinking it's a great time to

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Speaker 1: do a documentary on the role of the media in

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Speaker 1: in a democracy and go to a country where there

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Speaker 1: isn't a free press and what that's like and remind

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Speaker 1: people of some of the basic principles that this country

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Speaker 1: was founded on. And I think, to your point, too

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Speaker 1: much naval gazing starts to feel like too much naval gazing.

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Speaker 1: So how do you also deal with all this fake news?

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Speaker 1: You know, during the campaign, I have very well educated

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Speaker 1: friends sending me articles did you see this? And I

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Speaker 1: would be like, where did you see that? This is

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Speaker 1: complete bullshit? And they, my friends would be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's all over the internet. So I think that that

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Speaker 1: the technology has moved faster than sort of our ability

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Speaker 1: to consume it with some kind of uh discernment. And

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, maybe news organizations need to get

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Speaker 1: together so that consumers nook can know what a legitimate

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Speaker 1: news organization is that adheres to certain principles and practices,

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Speaker 1: you know, almost like a good housekeeping seal of approval,

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Speaker 1: so when they read something, they can appreciate and understand

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Speaker 1: that this has been you know, double source that it's

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Speaker 1: been edited. Now. Of course, the problem is fewer and

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Speaker 1: fewer outlets do that now because of the demand for

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Speaker 1: speed is superseded the demand for accuracy. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think there are all sorts of issues entailed in

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Speaker 1: this conversation. Yeah, And another complicating factor is the blurring

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Speaker 1: line between fake news and partisan media because you have,

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Speaker 1: you know, the former CEO of Bright Bart sitting in

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Speaker 1: the most powerful office, uh in the White House right now,

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Speaker 1: and they're sort of this his hand picked uh go

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Speaker 1: to news outlet who you know, they had the only

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Speaker 1: seat reserved in the front row at the first press conference.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering, how can a press corps work with a

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Speaker 1: White House when they're going to their favorite news sources

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Speaker 1: and there's this clear parts in slant of the press

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Speaker 1: core that's that's growing. It's not getting more objective. I

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Speaker 1: think it's getting actively less objective through these skype interviews

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Speaker 1: and the other things they're doing. No, I agree, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I think that the media just has to continue to

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Speaker 1: stay on top of these stories. I think part of

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Speaker 1: the problem is that there was always this fine line

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Speaker 1: between access and accountability. You know, you do a tough

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Speaker 1: interview with a political leader, president, a cabinet member, and

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Speaker 1: this happened to me in my career, and then you

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Speaker 1: get black all by that White House because they don't

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Speaker 1: like the hard questions you asked, they didn't like your

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Speaker 1: quote unquote tone um And that happened to me several

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Speaker 1: times in the past. And I think these networks still,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's this this kind of struggle because they

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Speaker 1: want the ratings that would come with an interview with

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Speaker 1: high ranking official or even the president. But the minute

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Speaker 1: that you really come down on that president, which is

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Speaker 1: hard to imagine not doing in the current administration, you

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Speaker 1: will never have access again. So I think people need

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Speaker 1: to realize these news outlets that they're probably going to

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Speaker 1: have to give up access because already I think, uh,

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Speaker 1: the administration recognizes um publications and networks and whatever. Who

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Speaker 1: are who are going to be predisposed to be easier

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Speaker 1: on administration officials, right, I mean what you think of

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Speaker 1: you know, there's like this, there's this half hour in

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Speaker 1: the morning, you know, network news shows that is hard news,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like at a certain points of time

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Speaker 1: that that half hour has been longer. It's been forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes or an hour. If you watch CBS this morning,

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Speaker 1: it's a little longer morning. What your take is on

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Speaker 1: sort of watching that block shrink over time, or the

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Speaker 1: sort of sensational or commercialization of tabolization of some of

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Speaker 1: these morning news look at Tommy asking you know it's interesting, Well, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think about that a lot. I think

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Speaker 1: about that a lot, because, um, it has shrunk significantly,

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Speaker 1: and I think, uh, you know, the time that is

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Speaker 1: I think part of it is, you know, with a

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Speaker 1: shrinking audience, you need to appeal to a mass audience.

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Speaker 1: So there's fear I think that you're going to turn

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Speaker 1: people off by doing too much hard news. I think

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Speaker 1: Good Morning America started sort of being lighter, and then

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Speaker 1: I think the Today Show sort of followed suit. I

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Speaker 1: think the Today Show has self corrected to a certain degree.

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Speaker 1: But um, you know, it's tricky, isn't it, because you know,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of some of the same things that these

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Speaker 1: these companies are dealing with. You know, whether it's under

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Speaker 1: arm or L. L Bean or Nordstrum's. Once you get

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Speaker 1: politicized at all, you turn off a big a segment

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Speaker 1: of the population, right And it's it's tricky, I think,

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Speaker 1: But if I were, you know, in charge, I would

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Speaker 1: certainly devote more time two big issues and they don't.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to all be politics, you know, it

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Speaker 1: could be explaining NAFTON talking about the controversy of the wall.

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Speaker 1: I had dinner. I went to a dinner this weekend

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Speaker 1: and the Mexican ambassador to the U N was kind

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Speaker 1: of talking to us about the wall and how humiliating

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Speaker 1: that was for Mexicans, and about the fact that many

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Speaker 1: fewer Mexicans are coming to the United States because of NAFTA,

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Speaker 1: because it has been so important to the Mexican economy,

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Speaker 1: that many people are staying in Mexico where they can

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Speaker 1: find good jobs. Things like that. I think that we

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Speaker 1: get so sort of caught up in the superficialities of

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Speaker 1: who did what, who said what, the outrageous behavior, the

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Speaker 1: crazy tweet, that we don't really dig into these issues

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Speaker 1: that I think educate uh and help illuminate some of

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Speaker 1: the big, big policy challenges that we're facing in this country. Um,

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Speaker 1: whether or not they would, you know, abandon a morning

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Speaker 1: show in droves if that kind of thing happened, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure, but I would like to see much more

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Speaker 1: of it. Frankly, Um, do you have a question for

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Speaker 1: us the first five? I have so many questions for

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Speaker 1: you guys. First of all, I know that part of

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Speaker 1: your mission in doing Pod Save America and Crooked Media

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Speaker 1: is to encourage activism. And I'm curious. I read a

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Speaker 1: piece in the Times this weekend that said, as liberals

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Speaker 1: and progressives become more politically active and kind of stand

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Speaker 1: up against some of the policies that are being enacted

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Speaker 1: by this administration, moderate Republicans are being pushed closer to

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Speaker 1: Trump because again, this this divide is so intense and

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Speaker 1: the rhetoric is so harsh on both sides. And I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: do you think we're forever going to be a polarized nation,

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Speaker 1: a polarized media. Is there any way to cross this

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Speaker 1: divide at all? John, I'll say, I'll ask you first,

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Speaker 1: and I'd love for the other guys to weigh in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we were just talking about that article. We're not fans.

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Speaker 1: I'm being very restrained. But I hate that article with

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Speaker 1: the fire of a thousand and not because the question

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Speaker 1: you're asking isn't important, right, Like I think the question

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Speaker 1: about this polarization is really important. But that article was

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Speaker 1: a bunch of garbage because it conflates a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different things, like is activism protests and Hollywood liberals? Are

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Speaker 1: they alienating Trump voters by the way? You know, First

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Speaker 1: of all, I can't even I can't. The article is

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Speaker 1: so outrageous because it asked these Trump people like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I used to like Meryl Streep, and now

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if I can go to the movies.

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Speaker 1: Shut up? And then all and then also it's kind

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Speaker 1: being like, you know, I might have supported a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: but then I saw a mean tweet about Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: and now I don't know what to think anymore. I

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Speaker 1: think I think there's a lot. I think that sometimes

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Speaker 1: you see these that that First of all, I think

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Speaker 1: that there are people who answer these questions in a

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Speaker 1: way that they think pundits want them to answer them,

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Speaker 1: and they're not speaking to their actual feelings about like

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Speaker 1: what the actual way in which they make decisions about

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Speaker 1: politics are. They're they're asked a question, are liberals alienating you?

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Speaker 1: And then the answer is very easy to say, yes,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I rambling. What about the pupil that

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Speaker 1: showed what moderate republicans think Donald Trump is doing a

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Speaker 1: good job. Are you surprised by that? Well? So I wasn't, because, um,

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Speaker 1: since those since they they may call themselves moderate Republicans,

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Speaker 1: but the idea as republicans and so if your your

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Speaker 1: party i D. Carries more of a weight than whether

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Speaker 1: you identify as moderate, liberal or conservative. Right. So in

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Speaker 1: that same pole, independence gave him a thirty five percent

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Speaker 1: approval rating and disapproval rating. Right, So they sort of

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Speaker 1: they kind of they shaded it to fit the narrative

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Speaker 1: of the story. The other thing is, you know, the

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Speaker 1: two people are the three people that they interviewed for

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Speaker 1: that story. Um. One of them had been in the

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Speaker 1: New York Times before, UM interviewed by the same reporter

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Speaker 1: wearing make America Great Again hat. And then one of

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Speaker 1: them said that, you know, said that she was more

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Speaker 1: scared of Democrats than Islamic terrorists. So these are not

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Speaker 1: like persuadable republicans, right, No, But your larger point, the

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Speaker 1: question about polarization is a good one and a right one.

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Speaker 1: I think the what that article does is it sort

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Speaker 1: of conflates what this is what a lot of analysis

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Speaker 1: has been doing these days, Trump fans with Trump voters,

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Speaker 1: and I think those those two groups are different, right

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Speaker 1: the Trump fans, which I think they interviewed a few

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Speaker 1: Trump fans in that piece, and not just Trump voters,

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Speaker 1: reluctant Trump voters. Um, they are getting their news from

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Speaker 1: Fox and Breitbart and all these very conservative media sources

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Speaker 1: and sometimes fake news sources and trying to pierce their

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Speaker 1: bubble right and trying to persuade them why Trump isn't

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Speaker 1: good for the country, or Trump is lying, or Trump

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Speaker 1: is doing X. I think that is extraordinarily difficult, and

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Speaker 1: that is a huge problem that we have to deal with.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure how we deal with that because

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Speaker 1: it's hard to reach people like that who are getting

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Speaker 1: all this news like that. We're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break to hear some messages from our sponsors and

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Speaker 1: to ask for some messages from you. Will be right

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Speaker 1: back with more from the Pots Save America team. What

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Speaker 1: is cricket media? What is your goal? Is it sort

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Speaker 1: of a Fox News on the left, it's not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's weird because I don't want to say that it's

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Speaker 1: Fox News on the left, but I think it is

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Speaker 1: a progress. We want to be a progressive media company.

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Speaker 1: Um that sort of inspires activism, right, And so I

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Speaker 1: think that there is especially there's a younger generation out

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Speaker 1: there right now, and there is a gap between their

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Speaker 1: enthusiasm and their engagement. So we have a lot of

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Speaker 1: young people who are who are really they want to

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Speaker 1: do something, they want to get involved, but they don't

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Speaker 1: know how and they haven't been involved in politics before,

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Speaker 1: and we want to sort of bring that's the start. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And one big difference too is that I think we're

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Speaker 1: trying our best to kind of like have like an

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Speaker 1: honest conversation. And look, we have a very strong point

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Speaker 1: of view. You know, we are obviously come from we

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Speaker 1: are Democrats, but you know we're not. We're trying to

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Speaker 1: do our best to say what we think, how we feel,

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Speaker 1: being honest about that, and I don't think that's true.

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Speaker 1: Just getting back to your initial question, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think there's certainly the case during the election that there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of people this this show included where

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Speaker 1: the tone was Donald Trump is an idiot. If you

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Speaker 1: vote for Donald Trump, you're an idiot. And that came

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Speaker 1: through loud and clear to a lot of people. Uh,

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Speaker 1: We've done a lot of soul searching on that, and

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Speaker 1: I think that was unhelpful to say the least. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think it's your god given right as an American

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Speaker 1: citizen to say whatever the hell you want about any

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Speaker 1: elected official in in the language that you feel is

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Speaker 1: most appropriate. That said, I don't think we're going to

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Speaker 1: persuade people unless we're being a little more thoughtful about

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Speaker 1: how we talked about him. Sometimes. I think this is

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Speaker 1: true for liberals, and I think it's true for politicians too.

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Speaker 1: It's never a good idea to play sociologist when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about voters, right because when you talk about like

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Speaker 1: people feeling this divide or feeling that they're like put

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Speaker 1: upon by you know, Clinton supporters or the elites or

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, it's it's people. We often talk about

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Speaker 1: people like they're just like we're like anthropologists studying an

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Speaker 1: ancient culture, like like, what are the white working class

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Speaker 1: voters think borough with a pair of innocular and like

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Speaker 1: look and politicians and the like. Obama has done that

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Speaker 1: a few times when he did the guns and religions comment,

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Speaker 1: like Hillary Clinton did that with deplorables, like it is

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Speaker 1: never a good idea to talk about voters. Well, isn't

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Speaker 1: that part of the problem, you guys. I interviewed Doors

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Speaker 1: Current's Goodwin after the election and on this podcast, and

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Speaker 1: she basically said, and I think Brian Stevenson talks about

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Speaker 1: this a lot as well, being proximate, and part of

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Speaker 1: it is geographical. I mean that we have these these

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Speaker 1: rural and exurban voters often times, and people in these

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Speaker 1: big cities coastal cities have very little interaction with people.

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Speaker 1: I was having dinner with my husband on Friday night

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Speaker 1: and we were sitting next to a very nice couple

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Speaker 1: from Memphis, and they recognized me despite the fact I

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Speaker 1: had no makeup on it. It looked really scary, and

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Speaker 1: so we started chatting and this guy we were talking

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Speaker 1: about Trump, of course, because you can't go anywhere without

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Speaker 1: you know, there's no place that is safe. There's no

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Speaker 1: Trump free zone these days. And he basically said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I voted for Trump, and I was screaming at him

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Speaker 1: on the television saying please shut up. He and I said,

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Speaker 1: but do you do you still support him? He said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he said, I have a family furniture business. The Chinese,

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Speaker 1: the Asians are are killing American manufacturing when it comes

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Speaker 1: to furniture. The time it takes to build a new

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Speaker 1: factory in this country is crazy. There are too many regulations.

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Speaker 1: We want the best for our employees, and we really

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Speaker 1: hope that he's going to be more hospitable to small businesses.

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Speaker 1: And you know, uh, my husband who's in finance, basically says,

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Speaker 1: you know, Donald Trump could do a lot that's good

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Speaker 1: for the economy. Would you can see that there are

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Speaker 1: some positive things that he could do and maybe some

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Speaker 1: some corrections from over regulation that might have been put

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Speaker 1: in place during the Obama administration. Yeah, I think there's

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Speaker 1: plenty of positive things he could do. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: what's interesting about that conversation with the guy is that

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Speaker 1: I think where we should be opposing Donald Trump or

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Speaker 1: debating Donald Trump is on those issues, right, because I

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Speaker 1: could make a case that um Obama's policies or liberal

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Speaker 1: Democratic policies would do a better job of helping small

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Speaker 1: businesses and bringing manufacturing back or educating people for the

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Speaker 1: next generation of high tech manufacturing, right, And so I

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Speaker 1: think getting back to those I think those arguments are

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Speaker 1: probably the best way to actually persuade people and not um,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, did you see his tweet? He's awful

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Speaker 1: and terrible, and that's it, because I think, I think

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Speaker 1: the bigger gap, but the bigger bubble here is between

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Speaker 1: people who are super engaged with the media and consume

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Speaker 1: media every day, every minute of the day. And that

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Speaker 1: goes for people on the left and people on the right,

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Speaker 1: and then many many more Americans who are just very

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Speaker 1: casual observers of the media and casual consumers of the media,

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Speaker 1: and they are not paying as close attention to a

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Speaker 1: lot of these debates as we are, and therefore, when

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Speaker 1: they aren't as outraged about everything as Donald Trump does

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Speaker 1: as we are, we're often like, well, aren't you paying attention?

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Speaker 1: And it's like, well, no, people are busy, They're leading

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Speaker 1: busy lives, and they don't want to spend every five

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Speaker 1: seconds trying to like correct Donald Trump's And aren't a

429
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: lot of these arguments or discussions very nuanced and complicated.

430
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: You know, not everybody is reading the Economists, where the

431
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: whole issue was on globalization or automation, and you know,

432
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,239
Speaker 1: they're there. I think one of the problems and you

433
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: all can certainly respond to this, uh, is I think

434
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: President Obama had a hard time communicating in simple terms

435
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: what his policies would do. And you've heard this before.

436
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 1: He was often sort of professorial and to um, almost

437
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: too sophisticated, and the way he expressed himself. And I think,

438
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: of course you have the polar opposite in Donald Trump,

439
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: uh you know, in terms of how simplistic he is

440
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: in and explaining his positions. So how do you get

441
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: even those two arguments out there and discussed in in

442
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: an intelligent way? Yeah, I mean I think so. I

443
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: think there's sort of there's two pieces to that. There's

444
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: communicating the policies, and then there's whether or not these policies,

445
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: it's consensus around economic policy has been accepted. Because what's

446
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 1: interesting about what you're saying about this person you met

447
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 1: at the restaurants, Actually, you know Tommy and John Hay

448
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: roll their eyes. But it's actually similar to the kind

449
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: of thing my dad says, you had a factory, um,

450
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: and you know, you know they see the eyes of

451
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: your dad. Like I remever mad that you accused me

452
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: of rolling my been sitting right here, looking straight ahead, Katy.

453
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: I want you to know they've been great, and I

454
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: was wrong, um, but but what I was gonna say

455
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: is that, you know, I feel like there's been this

456
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: like you know, especially you know, Trump's actually adopted some

457
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: of this Paul Ryan language around taxes and regulation. And

458
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: there has been a really big divide, divisive debate in

459
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: Washington for a long time on taxes and regulation. But

460
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: what Trump came in on was was actually kind of

461
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: breaking up a consensus around things like immigration and trade

462
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: that it turns out we're incredibly resonant issues with people.

463
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: And I think if there's one good thing that's coming

464
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: out of what Trump is doing is, first of all,

465
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: I think he's you know, uh uh, turning over a

466
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,239
Speaker 1: bunch of dogmas on the right. But also I think

467
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: he's forcing Democrats to confront a lot of these policies,

468
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: which you know, I think Barack Obama Democrats generally have

469
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: talked a lot about communications failure, and I think that's true.

470
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: But I think what the Bernie Sanders rise, what Trump's

471
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: rise is showing is there's actually bigger policy questions that

472
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: we maybe need to answer in a different way. What

473
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: are the Democrats going to do to get their mojo back? Guys.

474
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's going to start. I think

475
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: it's it has to start from the grassroots. I think

476
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: it's starting in a lot of these protests. I think

477
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: it's starting with a lot of these town halls. Like

478
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: I do not think it starts in Washington with a

479
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: lot of the leaders we have there. I think already

480
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: a lot of the Democrats in Washington are playing catch

481
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: up to what's going on around the country. And that's

482
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: a good thing because I think if we're going to

483
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: reinvent the party, reinventing it from outside of Washington is

484
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: better than doing it from inside Washington. And also that's

485
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: actually I think ultimately what bothered me about that article,

486
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: your reference to bring it back, which is, look, Hollywood, people,

487
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, sounding off about love Trump's hay, Like, I

488
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: think that that can be useless. But to conflate that

489
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: with an incredibly exciting and inspiring moment of activism and

490
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: protests and people are going town halls, I think that's wrong.

491
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: And I think that's um uh, too broad a brush,

492
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, not not a not a precise enough tool.

493
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: Because I think that this activism um whether or not

494
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: there are some protesters who go too far and say

495
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 1: things that maybe bother some people on the whole has

496
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: been a few one of the only things that has

497
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: successfully taken the microphone away from Donald Trump. It is

498
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: funny you have like on the on the on the

499
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: national level, you have Democrats with like simplistic slogans like

500
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: love Trump's hate, and then at these town halls you

501
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: have average voters with incredib with an incredibly sophisticated understanding

502
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: of the Affordable Care Act, asking their congressman questions about

503
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: lifetime limits and caps and stuff like that. And it's

504
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: it's really inspiring to see that. And it's also a

505
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: lesson that, you know, people know a lot more than

506
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: just the people are more than the simplistics. You know,

507
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: I remember watching those town halls after that summer when

508
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: President Obama first introduced the Affordable Care Act, and you know,

509
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: I think it was a very organized effort to protest

510
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: that this this program. Remember, and people would be like

511
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: on page thirty eight paragraph to you state, so I

512
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: think that are are people at those town halls following

513
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: that model that we saw early on in the Obama presidency.

514
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: You think so far, Yeah, I mean it's so far.

515
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: It looks like there's a very active, very well organized,

516
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: very well educated, respectful campaign to go to these town

517
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: halls to demand the members of Congress hold them and

518
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: to ask them very specific questions, both about the Affordable

519
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: Care Act but also sort of the Russia scandal and

520
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: other things going on. So it seems like that playbook

521
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: is being followed, although I do think these town halls

522
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: have gotten shy of being quite as intense or caustic

523
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: as maybe the tea party ones were back in the day,

524
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: But that was because those people legitimately thought that they

525
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: were going to be death panels and things that were live. Well,

526
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: I remembered watching those and thinking how woefully uneducated the

527
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: members of Congress were when they faced that their constituents.

528
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: It was shocking to me, shocking, was it to you know? Look,

529
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: we you know, look, approval rating of Congress amongst the

530
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: American people as somewhere around ten percent. Approval rating of

531
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: Congress among people who have worked dit Congress is about

532
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: zero percent. Think, you know, we know that, we know

533
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: these people, and it's the worst. The closer you get

534
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: some of them lovely, that's so depressing. But what's what's

535
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: so okay? So we got we have the educated people

536
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: at town hall meetings to have people protesting, So what

537
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: is this realistically going to accomplish? I read David Brooks

538
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago and he said, basically, there's

539
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: nothing that really can be done for the next four years.

540
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think? What what what is

541
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: the road forward? In your view for people who opposed

542
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump? The mid terms don't look super promising. No,

543
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: I would just I think that the mid terms do.

544
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: I think there's democracy twenty four seats to take the

545
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: House back. I think there were something like thirty seats

546
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: where Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump in a district or

547
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: a Republican is sitting in the district right now. So

548
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: I think that's the first target. And um, but the Senate.

549
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: Senate looks pretty doobiouse, sid It's tough. I don't think

550
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: we can win to Senate back because I think you

551
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: can pick off at best, you can pick off Dean

552
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: Heller and Nevada and Jeff Flake in Arizona at best,

553
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: and then you're still a couple of year basically got

554
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: a tide Senate at that point. Decrats it seems like, yeah, yeah,

555
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: the best case scenario is a tide Senate and then

556
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: the Democrats taken the House back. But if the Democrats

557
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: take the House back, then they have subpoena power, then

558
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: they can investigate, Then they can legislatively stop a lot

559
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's domestic policies. So it would be huge.

560
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: And when I say hold Trump accountable, I mean impeachment,

561
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: but I don't say it, well let's go there. I

562
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: mean I think you could. I don't think it's a

563
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: good idea to like throw around the word impeachment unless

564
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 1: there's an ippeachable offense that you are. I don't know

565
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: that we know yet, but I don't. I do think

566
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: no one should discount how unbelievably distracting these ongoing investigations

567
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: are going to be. I mean, you know, depending on

568
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 1: who you read, there are multiple FBI investigations going on

569
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: on a variety of Trump associates or aids or what

570
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: have you. And this White House is going to be

571
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: more bogged down than they could ever possibly imagine. And

572
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: it's just begun and possibly for good reason. I mean,

573
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: it might not just be a distraction, very seemingly for

574
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: good reason. In all seriousness. I think holding them accountable

575
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: means investigating, means means actual hearings, means doing the job

576
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: that people like Jason Chafitz and Paul Ryan refused to do.

577
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: Um Whether or not there's grounds for removing Donald Trump,

578
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: I don't think we can say it. Well, what do

579
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: you think the Democrats should do in Congress? The people

580
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: you hold in such high regard? Should they do what

581
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: what to Trump? What the GOP did to Barack Obama?

582
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they should oppose every policy they

583
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: disagree with, which seems to be many, you know, I

584
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: mean I don't think he has put for like if

585
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: if if the Paul Ryan Repeal and Replaced plan, which

586
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: basically just like takes Medicaid and healthcare subsidies away from

587
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: millions of people, is the plan that absolutely they should

588
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: oppose it. You know. I think that every time a

589
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: plan comes up for a proposal, or a policy comes up,

590
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: Democrats should decide, you know, would you support it on

591
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: the merits right? And it doesn't seem should they pick

592
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: their battles? In other words, I mean, should they put

593
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: up a fight against Neil Gorsts Because if they if

594
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: they really do that, it's going to pretty much hand

595
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump a big, fat victory, is it not. I

596
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: think he's going to get gorset John regardless because he's

597
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: got the votes. But I do think, look, I think

598
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: hearings are important for Gorsets, which is what Marck Garland

599
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: didn't get. And I think let's hear him out, Let's

600
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: ask him really tough questions, and if it seems like

601
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: he's a judge that's not in the mainstream, which we

602
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: believe Marrick Garland was, then vote against us. And if

603
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: you do think he's in the mainstream, then vote for

604
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: in the main stream. I mean, like that's that's whether

605
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: or not Democrats should vote to confirm him is shouldn't.

606
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: It will really ultimately have nothing to do with whether

607
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: or not he's in the mainstream. They've already made up

608
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: their minds and it's totally a political decision. The thing

609
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: I would say about that political decision that's important to

610
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: me is we need to give people a reason to

611
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,239
Speaker 1: vote for Democrats. And there's a lot of people out

612
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: there that want to see that Democrats are fighting, and

613
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: the fact that gors will go will get on no

614
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: matter what is almost beside the point, like showing that

615
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: we're willing to fight is going to get people excited

616
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: about sending more Democrats to the House and to the Senate.

617
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Hillary Clinton, if we could, John, I'm

618
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: just curious, you know. I heard so many people say

619
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: if the Hillary we saw in the concession speech would

620
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: have surfaced more during the course of the campaign, it

621
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: might have turned out differently. Does that call you when

622
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: people make that observation, What do you think of it?

623
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: I think people who were saying that if only the

624
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: Hillary that showed up after she lost were around, she

625
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: would have won. They said that, um after her two

626
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: eight defeat. I think they said that again again this time.

627
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: I think that there is some truth to it. Um.

628
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: I think that there's some truth to the fact that

629
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: there's some kind of a a political instinct that she

630
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: has and that the people around her have over the

631
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: years that has nothing to do with an individual team.

632
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: Because it repeats over and over again that there's a

633
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: kind of um control that ultimately is self defeating. And

634
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely true. So was that what do

635
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: you think what that's what went wrong? She was too

636
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: cautious and controlling or the campaign itself that sort of

637
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: I said that sounded over personalized, but that that the

638
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: sort of ethos of the campaign was too cautious and controlling.

639
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: You mentioned that about the concession speech. People have said

640
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: that about They said that about John Kerry after his

641
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: concession speech. They said it about Mitt Romney after his

642
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: concession speech. They said it about Al Gore after his concessions.

643
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: They said about Son McCain, they said about John McCain.

644
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: There are certain brand of politicians who are too cautious

645
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: during a campaign and it is not in there, and

646
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: are less cautious after the campaign's over. And that is

647
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: because they run with an overwhelming fear of losing, and

648
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: that fear of losing makes them more cautious and calculated sometimes.

649
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: My sister was running for Lieutenant governor of Virginia with

650
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: Mark Warner when she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and

651
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: she was a real rising star in the Democratic Party

652
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: and a lot of people said she was going to

653
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: be the first female government governor, and unfortunately, tragically she

654
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: passed away. But she told me when she was running

655
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: first State Senate, etcetera. She said, when you run for office,

656
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: you have to be willing to lose. And I think

657
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: What she meant is it sounds so simple, is that

658
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: you have to be true to yourself and to your

659
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: core values and principles and let the chips fall where

660
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: they may. It's it's absolutely right, It's so it is.

661
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: It does sound simple, but it is incredibly hard and

662
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't do that. Yeah, I mean,

663
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: is this this people? It's like there's so many advisors

664
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: and there's so many polls, and you know, but ultimately,

665
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: people don't make a decision based on like how you

666
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: met ten different metrics. You have to get them to

667
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: vote for you. You as a person have to get

668
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: someone else to vote for you. And look, I think

669
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: ultimately it's actually probably not that helpful to worry about

670
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: what Hillary Clinton's individual liabilities were when we need to

671
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: figure out who next person is and how they're gonna win. Um.

672
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: And the truth is everything mattered in this campaign. You know,

673
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: we lost by a hundred thousand votes across three states.

674
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: Comy mattered. Uh, the email matter, that, the hacks matter,

675
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: the leaks, everything mattered. Um, But uh, well, what about

676
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: but about it? A coherent message to blue collar Democrats?

677
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: I know you you all have said that there was

678
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: that message but somehow it just didn't come through, and

679
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: saying go to my website just doesn't cut it. Fellas.

680
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I think that's fair, and I do

681
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: think that it's worth it's worth examining this campaign, because

682
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want us to over learn problems

683
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 1: that may or may not have been specific to Hillary

684
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: Clinton and her campaign and apply them too broadly to

685
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: Democrats and overthink sort of needing to segment the population

686
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: the United States and reach out to X, Y or

687
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: Z voter. That said, I think the bigger problem we

688
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: all made was the lesson of Bernie Sanders and of

689
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, was that every voters across the country were screaming,

690
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: we are sick and tired of washing and then we

691
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: handed them someone that they've been seeing in Washington for

692
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: thirty years nominee, and that was just summarily rejected on

693
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: a million questions that are probably values based. Do you

694
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: think Bernie Sanders would have beaten Donald Trump? Yeah, it's

695
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: the look. Yes, I think My position is yes. My

696
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: position is I say yes, but I hate count of

697
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: factuals because it's so like evidence free. But I have

698
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: I have this feeling now that you would have yeah,

699
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: And look, we talked about this before, like and this

700
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: actually goes back again to that article, like liberals aren't

701
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: helping Trump, but liberals do need to think very carefully

702
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: about the language we use and the way we talk

703
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: to people that are really suffering. And I think that

704
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: that was a failure not of the Hillary Clint campaign,

705
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: but of democratic politics generally. But I think I think

706
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: you risk it at perpetuating that because I think there's

707
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: something patronizing and dismissive about some of the approaches that

708
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: are being taken by progressives in fighting Donald Trump that

709
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: you have to be aware of and um, you know,

710
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: just in some ways stay away from where it's almost

711
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: class warfare. I think that we're seeing, do you guys. Yeah,

712
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean we sell patronizing and dismissive by the pound

713
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: here on brand. Look, you're you're absolutely right. A good

714
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: message is inclusive and disciplined and proactive and positive and

715
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: focused on the future, and it's a lot easier and

716
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: more fun to criticize the dust about the day. Also,

717
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: we've we've noticed, like small things, We've talked about this

718
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: where democrats often say, you know, the working class feels

719
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: left behind by the last twenty years of inequality and

720
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And it's like, well, they don't feel

721
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: left behind. They have been left behind, you know. But

722
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: it's like it's little comments like that that are more

723
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: like I said, they're more it's analyzing people as opposed

724
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: to advocating for people anthropological approach you refer to. And

725
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: I think and I think one thing Bernie Sanders does

726
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: really well is he advocates for people in a real

727
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: simple way. And it's not white and and it it's

728
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: ideology aside here, right, It is just it is speaking

729
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: to people's real frustrations and anxiety. And it's also, by

730
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: the way, it's not being too smart for own good

731
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, complicated uh policies that we're trying to sell.

732
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: You know, people want good health care, you know, they

733
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: want simple, elegant solutions to problems that they can understand.

734
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of sort of democratic insidery.

735
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: The conversation got very complicated. It got very much like

736
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: like a I don't know, like a policy. Yes, Like

737
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, there was all that talk during

738
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: the campaign, like we've got so many more pages of

739
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: white papers in that dumb guy Donald Trump It's like

740
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: if I ever hear anyone brag about the length of

741
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: white paper again, I'm gonna lose it. You know, one

742
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: thing that, like you mentioned earlier, that people did call

743
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: Obama aloof or you know, professorial and all these things.

744
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: The one thing that I always noticed about him because

745
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: I spent a year with him in Iowa, watching a

746
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: bit literally in back yards and every Iowa cliche you

747
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: can imagine, I will spout. But like, the thing that

748
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: was true at him and about the first Lady was

749
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: that it was more recent that they were paying off

750
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: student loans than that they had become famous politicians. And

751
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: like that that reality allowed them to connect with people

752
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: in a way that was authentic and that is perishable, right,

753
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: because you spend long enough in Washington being told you're

754
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: great and everything is brilliant, and things get paid for

755
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: by so and so a bistro b or wherever you're

756
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: going for lunch, like you you get lost great stake

757
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: freaks there? What of that was? So? So what happens

758
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: when when Donald Trump doesn't or do you think he

759
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: will bring manufacturing back? I mean, first of all, only

760
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: of the jobs lost in manufacturing between two thousand and

761
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten were lost to trade. The rest

762
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 1: were lost to automation. I read an interesting piece today

763
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: that said Bill Gates wants to start taxing companies to slow,

764
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: you know, for their use of robotics, to sort of

765
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: slow the progression this transfer. Mean, we're witnessing from an

766
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: industrial to a technological society. I mean a do you

767
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: think he's going to bring manufacturing back and be what

768
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: happens if he doesn't? Go? Yeah? I mean, look, the

769
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: most frustrating part of Donald Trump's you know, vision that

770
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: he's selling people is that it's largely fiction. Right is

771
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: that that that a lot of that most manufacturing jobs

772
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: aren't coming back right now. That's something that you know,

773
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton was saying back in when he was running

774
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: for president. He was honest with people about that. Barack

775
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: Obama used to be honest with people about that. Now

776
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: that's not There are companies that are you know, we

777
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: saw this over the last eight years. There's a trend

778
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: towards insourcing where a lot of these companies are moving

779
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: production back to America. So that's good, but it's still

780
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: a tiny, like he said, is a tiny fraction of

781
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: the jobs that we've lost The largest challenge we have

782
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: as a country that we have to talk about is

783
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: and Obama was telling us this when he was on

784
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: the podcast too, is automation, right, Like, what are we

785
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: going to do? Talk about that? During the campaign. It

786
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: infuriated me. You know, well one they should have too.

787
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: It's a complicated issues that you know. I don't think

788
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: anybody knows the answer. That's why I think they. I

789
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: think no one knowing the answer where the next generation

790
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: of job is going to come from is left and

791
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 1: opening for someone like Trump and other to lie about it. Yeah.

792
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean, look, if if the solutions of the center

793
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 1: left and the center right are not going to answer

794
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: the problems are regular people, it's going to open the

795
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: door to monsters. But has I would just say we

796
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: we all should be rooting for Donald trump success because

797
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: it's the biggest challenge we're gonna face. It's going to

798
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: get worse, It's gonna get harder. I hope to god

799
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: he can figure out a way to bring back Jack.

800
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: Are you really reading for Donald Trump's success? I am

801
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: the on the pot of policy level. But the reason

802
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of the reason I don't

803
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: have any but the reason I don't have a lot

804
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: of hope that he's really going to work on this

805
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: and make progress. Is that he filed for re election

806
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: five hours after he was sworn in, and this weekend

807
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: you hold a campaign rally, and the guy loves the

808
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: crowds and the big promises in the Blusster and Bravado,

809
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: and we have not seen him spend a lot of

810
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: time at the White House getting to work doing stuff.

811
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: And yes, he can make press releases and repackage announcements

812
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: from companies that had already pledged to create some sort

813
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: of jobs here in the United States, but like it's

814
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: it's governing by press release. There's not a dedicated, thoughtful

815
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: process in places actually, and even that is kind of

816
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: a band aid, although he is very very good at

817
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 1: making hay over small accomplishments like the car jobs created

818
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: that and that was actually an incredibly effective part of

819
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: his pitch. So so he's got this, he's got this narrative.

820
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: He's writing about how he's renegotiating these little things and

821
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: he's going to renegotiate the deals. Right, that's not gonna

822
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: solve America's job problem. Then he then, you know, they

823
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: go back and forth you know, some days they're talking

824
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: about some trillion dollar infrastructure project. The next day you

825
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: hear from the Hill that that's not possible. Um, you know,

826
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: that's actually something that could make a difference. Of course,

827
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: these are the same Republicans who fought tooth and nail

828
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: against a democratic stimulus measure when the president came in

829
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: and when we were in crisis. Look at the other

830
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: policy is, you know, tariffs and like starting trade wars,

831
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,479
Speaker 1: which is is certainly not going to solve the issue

832
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: because that's just going to raise prices on poor and

833
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: working class people, right It's that's so that's that's not

834
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: an answer either. So his answers to the problem of manufacturing,

835
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: which is seems to be like threatening individual companies, um,

836
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: promising an infrastructure bill that's that hasn't materialized yet, and

837
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: thrown up tariffs are not you know, policy wise, are

838
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: not great solutions. And and it's one more point to

839
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: that that right now the economy is growing and adding jobs.

840
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: That won't necessarily be true over the next four years.

841
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: You know, he is sort of writing a long trend

842
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: of job growth which he can say, oh, look, a

843
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: new factory here, a new factory there, um. But at

844
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: a certain point, you know, it's by the taking credit

845
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: for the stock market is a dangerous game, buddy. It

846
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: goes up and it goes down. Why we didn't do it.

847
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: But let me ask you guys about the President Obama's

848
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: relationship with President Trump. Do they talk? I mean, you

849
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: guys probably know this, do I can't imagine President Obama

850
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: being like, Yo, Donald, let's talk, given some of the

851
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: stuff that Trump has been saying in recent days about

852
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, he inherited a real mess, blah blah blah. Right,

853
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: I think President Lama is better at brushing that off

854
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: off than his hack aids who are on the phone

855
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: right now are, you know. And I think he can

856
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: sort of see through that and try to have a

857
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: constructive relationship because they you know, when they're alone in

858
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: the Oval office, like nobody's tweeting make America great again.

859
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's a conversation about how hard the job

860
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: is going to be. And I think he's tried to

861
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: have a constructive conversation with him about the realities of

862
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: a hardness. Is the things he thinks he should protect

863
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: and preserve, you know, the political traps um, the challenges

864
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: of building a good team. So I think he really

865
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: tried to help him in a constructive way. He hasn't

866
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: really popped off in response to any of the provocations

867
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: you mentioned. Well, let me ask you though, at some point,

868
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: does he become a voice of those who are opposing

869
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: Donald Trump? And is that how he's Is that how

870
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: he becomes an effective former president? I mean, I think

871
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: on on big issues he may. I think that it's

872
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: his belief, and it's been his belief long before Trump,

873
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: that the most important thing he can do is sort

874
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: of inspire the next generation of voices to go out

875
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: and lead, right, because he knows that he's not going

876
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: to run for office again. He's not going to be

877
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: president again. But we do need leaders who aren't afraid

878
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: to stand up and speak out and and and take

879
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: up the fight. Okay, that's a perfect segue to my

880
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: next question. Sure sighting, who are this is going very seamlessly,

881
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: isn't it? You guys, you're very good at this. That's

882
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: why who are the future stars of the Democratic Party

883
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: and really for maybe a more moderate Republican Party as well,

884
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: if that exists. So there's Tommy, there's John. I'm here, um,

885
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: So we'll start there. I think that's an important group,

886
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: But beyond that, I'm actually not sure. I don't really

887
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: follow politics. Kla Harris out in California has got the

888
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: maybe the best bench for the party period. Garcetiis um

889
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: devenue so and then Jason Candor candor friend of the

890
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: Pod Jason Cander. Is he the one that did the

891
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: great ad where he put together the automatic weapon blindfold blindfold? Yeah,

892
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: and he lost, but he's still a very strong and

893
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: h much followed progressive voice, right yeah, yeah, and he

894
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: did so much better in that race, uh than he

895
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: had any right to do. He's a card carrying badass.

896
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: But we also know obviously Elizabeth Warren is like cards

897
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: I think you have, you just had to apply. Anybody

898
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: can get one. It's it's like, actually just like it's

899
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: a scam. Really all right? Who else? Who else do

900
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: you see? Is um? And and what about We'll go

901
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: ahead and tell me and then I have a follow up.

902
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: Go ahead? Who else? Who else do we say? I

903
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: like Pete Boudagedge, the mayor of South Bend, Indiana. What

904
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: about Michael Bennett? Love Michael Bennett. I remember seeing him

905
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: at a fundraiser once and I was traveling with with Obama,

906
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: and I wasn't paying attention because it was a long day,

907
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: and I just heard this speech and like, who's delivering

908
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: that speech in there? And it was Michael Bennett. The

909
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 1: weird thing is, you know, you start to you think

910
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: of these politicians as like people who are adults in

911
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: your senior and then all of a sudden, there's this

912
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: generation of leaders like Jason Kander or like Seth Molton,

913
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 1: who's a member of Congress side of Massachusetts. Yeah, who

914
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: are like you know, third five, the next generation of

915
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: leaders that are that are really really impressed. What about

916
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: Corey Booker and Andrew Cuomo? Do you see them running

917
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: in Booker I could see, Yeah, I don't know if Cuomo,

918
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: I feel like he's got a lot of baggage. Who

919
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: doesn't Who doesn't, Katie, We don't like to criticize people

920
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: until after they've been on the podcast, so you're kind

921
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: of getting us in trouble. I basically sounded like an

922
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 1: uninformed voter there. What about someone outside the political realm?

923
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: You know, we've seen what Donald Trump businessman can get elected.

924
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: What about someone like Howard Schultz? And I know people

925
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: sort of jokingly suggested somebody like Tom Hanks. I mean,

926
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: do you see this opening the door to a new

927
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: breed of you know, the non politician running for president.

928
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: I would say that we should probably not try to

929
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: learn too many lessons like that from Donald Trump, who

930
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: is I think a unique figure. Um, but I think

931
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: the more of the merrier. I mean, if there are

932
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: people who are smart and charismatic and have good ideas

933
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 1: and are expert, I mean, I don't know about famous actors, um,

934
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: but about Mark Cuban. I think it was say Zuckerberg.

935
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: Oh well, what about either of them? Actually, let's discuss

936
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: both of them. Let's start with Mark Cuban. He appeared

937
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: at that All Star Celebrity game in New Orleans on

938
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: Saturday in a jersey emblazon with number forty six. I

939
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: think Donald Trump then tweeted that he wasn't smart enough,

940
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: or has in recent days, Mark Cuban isn't smart enough

941
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: to be president. I mean, honestly, you guys cannot make

942
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: this ship up? Can you might have to say that

943
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: on a podcast explicit rating? Okay today? But yeah, I

944
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: mean I like, I like Cuban, just clearly Cuban gets

945
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 1: under Trump's skin. So as long as Cubans out there

946
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: doing that, I think that's great. And what about Zuckerberg,

947
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't like. I think what we've

948
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: all been hitting on this conversation is that authenticity has

949
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: become coin in the realm, and I don't know that

950
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg seems to be approaching this as cautiously as humanly possible. Yeah,

951
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: it's like Mark Zuckerberg seems like he's spent thirty years

952
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: in Washington when he speaks the way for it is

953
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: not six thousand word letters, it's you know, talking to people.

954
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: Do you think he's charismatic enough? I mean, do you

955
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: think he's charismatic enough? Because I think the thing is

956
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 1: with Trump, you know, like him or not for whatever reason,

957
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: his bravado and his bluster and his kind of unconventional

958
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: way of speaking. Trump is charismatic and he is charming,

959
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: and he is funny, and we ignore that at our peril.

960
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: I've I've always felt that he has a great sense

961
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: of humor when he brings up if you watch his rallies. Look,

962
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to put it beside because he's racist and

963
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: despicable and he's lying all the time. But if that's

964
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: not how that well, other than that, how is the play?

965
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: But the but but but if you could put that aside,

966
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,479
Speaker 1: or if you didn't approach it with that sense of

967
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: of who he is, Um, he's great. He's an entertaining

968
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: guy that Raley brings up. A guy everybody's laugh. He's like,

969
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: we know our people. Everybody it's he's it's he's a

970
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: He's an entertainer. He's a showman and it works. Um

971
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: seems like he's running the white House like an episode

972
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: of The Apprentice to write, I mean, kind of encouraging

973
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: people to compete and to I don't know, that's sort

974
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: of what I've heard from people who are recovering this

975
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 1: white House. Didn't he say it was an well oiled machine?

976
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: Or what did he say? And but but it seems like,

977
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you guys hear about what's going

978
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 1: on Pennsylvania Avenue exactly that I mean, I think that's

979
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: his achilles heel is that competence in the ability to

980
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: run is the biggest organization in the world, is what

981
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: the job is, and he is shown no capacity to

982
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 1: do that. He's put in a place a team that's

983
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: over its head at best, if not constantly knifing each other.

984
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: Um and I think that there will be repercussions. So

985
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: we haven't seen them yet because nothing really bad has happened,

986
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: but it will because the dangerous, dangerous place I heard.

987
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: He doesn't really have a schedule. He sort of wanders

988
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: around a lot. Reporters tell us that, you know, in years,

989
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: many reporters wives to be spoken to, never ran into

990
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 1: Barack Obama in the hallway and they'll just see Trump

991
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: wandering down to lower press, or they'll walk into the

992
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: press Secretary's office and he'll just be sitting there with

993
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: the chief of staff watching able TV. And that's just

994
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: it's not a good use of time. Well before we go,

995
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: because I know you guys have given me more time

996
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: than you schedule, which I really appreciate. I know you,

997
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: I know you all are busy. But let's let's talk

998
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: about with with crooked media. Are you trying to convert

999
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: people to the cause? Are you just preaching to the choir?

1000
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: We want to do a lot of converting here. We

1001
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: want to do a lot of brainwashing. No, we do.

1002
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: We think like I would love this company to expand

1003
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: its audience right and to reach more people who are

1004
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: who might especially people who might not have been as

1005
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: engaged in politics as they want to be now, right,

1006
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: because there's a like you said, you can't escape Trump. Right,

1007
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: we are in a moment in our history now where

1008
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: more people are paying attention to politics and they have

1009
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: been quite some time. And for that new audience that's

1010
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: tuning in, you know that that's who we want to reach.

1011
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: And I think mostly they're younger too. Yeah, I think

1012
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: there's there's there's I think there's arming people with information

1013
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: and resources, and I think that's hopefully a role we

1014
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: can play. Um. I think that there's taking somebody from

1015
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: being less engaged and more engaged. And then I think

1016
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: there is also room for people who may not have

1017
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: heard a kind of I don't know. I mean, look,

1018
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: it sounds like Brandy, but like kind of a no

1019
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: bullshit conversation that maybe has a liberal perspective but might

1020
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: be accessible to somebody who isn't sure what their politics are,

1021
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: maybe thinks are Republican or maybe has been conservative in

1022
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: the past. But do you think this is going to

1023
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: translate to a higher voter turnout? Because I find that

1024
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: one of the most depressing aspects is the fact that

1025
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 1: so many people didn't vote or voted for, you know,

1026
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: through their vote away by voting for Gary Johnson. Although

1027
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: I saw Bill Well the other night and he said

1028
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: their voters were actually Trump voters. I'm not sure if

1029
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 1: that's so anyway, But do you think that that more

1030
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: people will get out and vote because of all the

1031
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: people protesting, I'd like to walk around and ask all

1032
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: of them if they voted. I think it's entirely incumbent

1033
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 1: upon the Democrats to put forward a candidate that inspires

1034
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: people and get some out there, because I think we

1035
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: did learn that demonizing someone, even when they deserve it,

1036
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: is not incentive to get people out, and we need

1037
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: to inspire them and get them to the polls. And

1038
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: Barack Obama did that incredibly well, and we need to

1039
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: find that next leader that can help you. And even

1040
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: before I think the single biggest challenge that Democrats have

1041
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: is taking this energy, this enthusiasm for protests, this fear

1042
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: and this anger and this anxiety and translating it into

1043
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: votes to win the House so that we can begin

1044
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: the process of actually having a government that holds these

1045
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: people accountable. Do you think there's any appetite for Hillary

1046
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: Clinton to run again. We've already started hearing rumblings about that,

1047
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: that she's positioning herself to to go for its Literally none,

1048
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: I would be shocked, if shocked, I would be more

1049
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: shocked than Trump when she would want to do that.

1050
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: I punched the staffer. I don't think that's I don't like.

1051
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: First of all, I can't believe that's real. I think

1052
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 1: that probably if this group of people are being honest,

1053
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: we'd say that we would be very much opposed to

1054
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: that because we need new people, We need a new way,

1055
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: somebody that can challenge Trump from the outside. So as

1056
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 1: fascinating as you three are, don't you want to ask

1057
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: me some questions about my podcast and why we're doing this,

1058
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: and YadA YadA YadA. Kati tell us about your podcast

1059
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: and why you're doing it. Well, thanks for asking John.

1060
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: You know, I found it would be really interesting to

1061
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: have these kinds of conversations. First of all, I'm able

1062
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: to express myself during a podcast in a way that

1063
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: I can't in any other venue. And I think and

1064
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: I think people are hungering for deeper, more kind of

1065
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: meaningful and spontaneous conversations, and I think that that is

1066
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: what a podcast affords and people seem to respond to it.

1067
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: I was buying bananas at this little neighborhood market the

1068
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,439
Speaker 1: other day and this woman came up to me. She said,

1069
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: I can't believe it, and she had her phone. She said,

1070
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: look what I'm listening to. I was like, do do

1071
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: do Do Do Do doo. That's really weird. So it's fun. No,

1072
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: we we we enjoyed. The form of podcasting is it's

1073
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,479
Speaker 1: a medium that lets you do a lot that others don't. Yeah,

1074
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: and it's into it and like I feel like, you know,

1075
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: I listen to podcasts and it feels like you're kind

1076
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: of sitting at the table with the people that are talking,

1077
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 1: so it's kind of a different relationship. I feel like

1078
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: we're having a slumper party. That's right. I am in

1079
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: I am in my pants. That doesn't have to do

1080
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: with the party. This is really really fun. I love

1081
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: talking to you all, and I think, you know, it's

1082
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've found this to be so,

1083
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: but you can't really go anywhere. We're we're not talking

1084
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: about the state of the country and what's going on

1085
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: in Washington and President Trump and um, I find it

1086
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: still endlessly fascinating and why do you think that's the case?

1087
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: That that And I don't think it's just you know,

1088
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: people who love politics either, do you I think it's

1089
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: a mixture of fear and fascination. Yeah. I mean, look,

1090
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: you know, I the fact that this happened this way,

1091
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: I think is incredibly I think everybody's surprised and everybody

1092
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: still trying to figure it out. And I think certainly,

1093
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: you know, I've happened to think we're in the middle

1094
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: of a national crisis. And I think that that crisis

1095
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: is if there's one good thing coming out of it,

1096
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: is that people are talking to other and trying to

1097
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: figure it out and thinking about politics in new ways.

1098
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: And it's kind of you even see this with journalists.

1099
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: You see like people kind of getting back to first principles,

1100
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: you know, like what do I do, why do I

1101
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: care about it? What is important to me? I mean

1102
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason we did this company, because

1103
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: the election of Donald Trump, I think, force us to

1104
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: confront what we cared about and what we if we

1105
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: cared about it enough. Do you think there's a risk

1106
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: that Democrats are just repeating Hillary's mistakes by attacking Donald

1107
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: Trump and not coming up with a clear and cohesive

1108
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: message for their own sort of mission. I think that

1109
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: could be a risk. I don't know if it's happening yet,

1110
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: but I think if we do not have a coherent

1111
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: vision to sell voters, um, then yeah, then we very

1112
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: well could repeat those mistakes. So I think it's important

1113
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: that we do that. And something we've talked about a

1114
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: lot here is that you know, I think that we

1115
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: that especially and this is the point that you're making

1116
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: about kind of talking just to ourselves. Um Uh. It

1117
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: can't just be about how bad Trump is and and

1118
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: it can't just be about how he insults our values

1119
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: are norms, that the way we think politics should sound

1120
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: vulgarantying all the us. It has to be about how

1121
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: Trump's policies will hurt you, right, how will actually affect

1122
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: your day to day life. And we need to make

1123
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: sure we're constantly talking not just about how we have

1124
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: the right values, how we care about freedom of the press,

1125
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: how we care about these institutions and norms, but why

1126
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: they matter and why they'll make your life better if

1127
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: you follow I alluded to this question earlier, and I

1128
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: don't think you all really answered it at what how

1129
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: long will it be? I guess I think we we

1130
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: veered off into a whole conversation about manufacturing. But how

1131
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: long will it take before people who think that Donald

1132
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: Trump voted for him because they believed he would make

1133
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: their lives demonstratively better? Uh? How long will it take

1134
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: before they say, Hey, you have to pay the piper,

1135
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: we voted for you and our lives aren't better. Or

1136
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: do you think that he'll take enough incremental steps and

1137
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: their lives will be sufficiently improved. I think the odds

1138
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: are that he will hurt them because they will not

1139
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: necessarily realize that the Affordable Care Act was benefiting them,

1140
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: or that certain tax policies will be changed that will

1141
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: overly benefit the wealthy. So I can't put a ball

1142
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: park time frame on this, because some of it is

1143
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: going to have to do with, you know, the the

1144
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: implementation of policy and the way people get their news

1145
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: about it. But I think that what he's going to

1146
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: do is going to cost him electorally. I genuinely do.

1147
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: I will say that elections help focus the mind. So

1148
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: I think when we get to eighteen, if there has

1149
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: not been any policy that helps working people out of

1150
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: this White House, I think people will respond accordingly at

1151
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: the polls. Yeah, I mean it's not a camp. You know,

1152
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: being president is in a campaign you actually have to

1153
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: do things. You can't just complain, you can't just wind,

1154
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: you can't just pick a target. People will actually see

1155
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: what happens in their world. And I know you aren't

1156
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: betting men, but do you think he's going to make

1157
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: it all four years? And maybe you are? I don't know,

1158
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. You guys, Well enough we are out

1159
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: of the prediction business alright, because suck at it, because

1160
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: because I still think Hillary is gonna win. Well, that's

1161
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,919
Speaker 1: a nice way to end this conversation. It's really fun

1162
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: talking to you guys. Can we do this? Can we

1163
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: do this again in six months? And super country journalism?

1164
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: What's happened to policy? And what's happened to the Democrats

1165
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: and the Republicans? For sure? Right, if one of us

1166
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: can get used our phone call of the day. All right,

1167
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: this was really fun. Thanks so much you guys. Thank

1168
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: you Brian. You were listening to our whole conversation, which

1169
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: went on a little longer. I think that they anticipated

1170
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: what did you think of some of the things they

1171
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: had to say? Well, I thought one thing was very smart,

1172
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: which is that they're now out of the prediction business.

1173
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: I think journalists can fall into that trap at their peril.

1174
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: And I thought, Katie, you made a really interesting point

1175
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: about where the media should go from here in the

1176
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: face of this unrelenting assault from both the right in

1177
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: general and Donald Trump in particular, which is less focused

1178
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: on tweets and style and more on facts and substance.

1179
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: And I think that is how the media responds. I mean,

1180
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: I have always thought that Fox News gets at half

1181
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: right with their tagline that the press should be fair

1182
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: but not balanced, that if one side is right on

1183
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: the facts and the other side is wrong, it is

1184
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: not biased for the media to take the side of

1185
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,479
Speaker 1: the facts. And I think that's what the press should

1186
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: do now. I think what it might be an interesting idea, Brian,

1187
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: is that during a presidential press conference or even an

1188
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: interview with the surrogate, for Donald Trump to have someone

1189
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: in a control room where a fact checker can put

1190
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: on the screen immediately when a statement is made, if

1191
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: in fact it is true or false. I don't think

1192
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: you do the true, but you would do the false.

1193
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: For example, when Donald Trump claimed during his press conference

1194
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: that he won more electoral votes than anyone since Ronald Reagan.

1195
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: Peter Alexander fact checked that immediately. I'm sure he was

1196
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: looking on his phone and figuring out the numbers for

1197
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: all the presidents who had more electoral votes than Donald Trump.

1198
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: But if you had someone in a control room saying

1199
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: right away, this is in correct, these are the facts,

1200
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: what do you think, Brian. I think live real time

1201
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: fact checking is challenging because sometimes it takes a little

1202
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: while to dig up the facts. But if you can

1203
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: do it on something quickly like that, it would be

1204
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: very powerful. Like when Donald Trump said over the weekend

1205
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: that there was a terrorist attack last night in Sweden,

1206
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: which was totally wrong. Somebody could have fact checked that

1207
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: at the time. I mean, I remember watching that press

1208
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: conference when he said the thing you mentioned about the

1209
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: electoral margin and thinking, yeah, that's great. You know, he's

1210
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 1: gotten the biggest electoral margin of any president since Reagan

1211
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: except for George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama.

1212
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: So that would have been a good fact check at

1213
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 1: the time. Let's talk about what the Democrats are going

1214
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: to do moving forward. I think the hosts of pot

1215
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: Save America and the people behind a new company called

1216
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: Crooked Media, as you said earlier, Brian, are trying to

1217
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: harness this sort of wave of activism that we're seeing

1218
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: almost on a daily basis out in the streets on

1219
01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: social media wherever. Where do you think that's at it

1220
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: and what do you think they can actually do to

1221
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: shape the narrative or how this activism is actually employed. Well,

1222
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: what's interesting if you look at history, often when one

1223
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: party moves to an ideological extreme, the other party follows suit.

1224
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: That is, they don't fill in the vacuum in the

1225
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: center and reach out to all those people who feel

1226
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: alienated by the ideological party in power. Instead, they kind

1227
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: of they're so angry and outraged, they move in the

1228
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: other direction and they rally their own base. And I

1229
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: think the Democrats are at risk of doing precisely that

1230
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: right now, seating the center. And I think the the

1231
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: major challenge for the Democrats moving forward is figuring out

1232
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: both how to rile up their base and how to

1233
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: reach people who abandon them in the last election. And

1234
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: what about the Republicans on Capitol Hill? So far, other

1235
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: than John McCain and Lindsey Graham, they seem to be

1236
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: supporting Donald Trump. At some point, do you think they're

1237
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 1: going to get to a place where they say, a,

1238
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: you know, we're not so jiggy with that. Yeah. I

1239
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: think that point would have to be when Trump's support

1240
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: drops below eighty five among members of his own party,

1241
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: because you've got to remember that most congress people are

1242
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: more concerned about primaries these days than they are about

1243
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: general elections. And then I think the water would be

1244
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: a little warmer for more Republicans to to wait in

1245
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: and join McCain and Graham and criticizing Trump. But Katie,

1246
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to ask you about this UH

1247
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: manifesto that Mark Zuckerberg wrote that's gotten a lot of

1248
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: attention saying that civil discourse depends on a strong press,

1249
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: that we should support the news industry. What was your

1250
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: reaction to that? Obviously, I am very much in favor

1251
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: of a free press, and I think Thomas Jefferson said,

1252
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 1: if you gave me a choice between a government without

1253
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: newspapers or newspapers without a government, I choose the latter

1254
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: or something I'm paraphrasing. We're not about my university, so

1255
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: we're not enemies the American people, Katie, No, I don't

1256
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: think we are. But you know, how do we convince

1257
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: the American people are a certain segment of the population

1258
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: that that's certainly not true. So it's a very challenging

1259
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: time for for the media, and uh, I think that

1260
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: it's smart for for us to band together and try

1261
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: to figure this out for the good of the country.

1262
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: I worry that we're headed toward the kind of bifurcated

1263
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: media future that you describe, in which I don't think

1264
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: we're headed. I think we're smack in the middle of it. Brian. Yeah,

1265
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: people don't even agree on the facts anymore. I mean

1266
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: people you know have said we used to agree on

1267
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 1: the facts and disagree on our views and opinions. Now

1268
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: we disagree on the facts themselves, and that makes it

1269
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: very hard for us to kind of come together to

1270
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: solve any problem. Well, here's the fact. We're out of time, Brian.

1271
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 1: But it's been fun doing a debriefing with you after

1272
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: chatting with the fellas from Pod Save America. And we'll

1273
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: see you next time. Everybody. Thanks so much for listening.

1274
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Speaker 1: Bye Brian, Bye Katie. Thanks to the lovely and talented

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01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer for producing our show. To Jared O'Connell, who's

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Speaker 1: also lovely and talented for mixing and engineering. Now, damn it,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to say everyone is lovely and talented,

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01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: so are you, Ryan Connor for your engineering assistance in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Also thanks to our social media maven Alison Bresnik,

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Speaker 1: who helps spread the word in such a creative way

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Speaker 1: about our podcast, and to Emily Beana for her part

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Speaker 1: and producing the show. Mark Phillips, thank you so much

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01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: for our very catchy theme music. It's still in my

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Speaker 1: head as always. Katie Kirk, Mitch Simil and I are

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Speaker 1: the executive producers of this show, and remember you can

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Speaker 1: always email us at comments at current podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find me on social media too. I'm Katie

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Speaker 1: Couric on Twitter, Instagram, Katie dot Kurric on Snapchat. Brian,

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Speaker 1: you're on social media too, right, just Twitter at Goldsmith

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Speaker 1: b you can join my tens of followers. People. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna ask you a big favor. I know we're

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Speaker 1: not just saying this as a as a final thought

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Speaker 1: on our podcast, but we really would love you all

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Speaker 1: to rate and review us on iTunes. Brian, tell everyone

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01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: why that's so important? Well, it really helps more people

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Speaker 1: to become aware of the show. The algorithms on Apple

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01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: take into account how many people rate and review each

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01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: show the activity around it, and that helps to drive

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Speaker 1: awareness across the tubes on the Internet. So we really

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01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: do appreciate all of you not just telling us how

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01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: much you like the show, but telling your friends and

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Speaker 1: your family if you appreciate the show, spreading the word

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Speaker 1: to them as well. Brian, that was really moving and

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Speaker 1: a little desperate, but very matter for making the case

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Speaker 1: for rating and reviewing. Anyway to subscribe as well, and

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Speaker 1: thanks for listening. As always, we'll talk to you next time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks