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Speaker 1: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and

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Speaker 1: court Last Latino USA.

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Speaker 2: I'm MARIAJSA.

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Speaker 1: We bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered

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Speaker 1: to you, overlooked by the rest of the media.

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Speaker 2: And while the country is struggling to deal with these.

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Speaker 1: We listen to the stories of Black and Latino Studios United,

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Speaker 1: Latino Front, a cultural renaissance organizing at the forefront of

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Speaker 1: the movement. I'm Maria Inojosa. Here is an episode from

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Speaker 1: our archives. AH On a Monday afternoon, writer Gaby Rimere

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Speaker 1: is visiting her local comic bookstore. It's a place in

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Speaker 1: downtown Oakland that's called Cape and Cowell.

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Speaker 3: You remember, I've come in for like adventure comics and stuff.

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Speaker 3: What's you got anything fun?

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Speaker 4: Anything around?

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Speaker 1: This is Gabby looks for heroes who are not your

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Speaker 1: basic white guy.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna grab that I want like you know, girls

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Speaker 4: kicking ass basically right, Like I want to grab a

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Speaker 4: Miss Marvel too.

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Speaker 1: As Gabby is flicking through comics at the comic book store,

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Speaker 1: there's a young man who's wearing thick black glasses and

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Speaker 1: a camouflage jacket and he spots her. You're miss America, yo, Yes,

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Speaker 1: America is America chap Is. That would be Marvel's first

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Speaker 1: Latina queer superhero. Gabby began writing for her in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: She wrote twelve comic books about America's adventures as a

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Speaker 1: Spanglish speaking college student who can also punch through dimensions

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Speaker 1: of time and space.

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Speaker 3: I have I love Miss America. That's my girl. So

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Speaker 3: thank you for you know, it was important to me.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Despite her happiness at chatting with a fan, Gabby hasn't

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Speaker 1: always found community in the comic book world.

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Speaker 4: And so sometimes on online space as it can be like, oh,

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Speaker 4: you're not telling this story, writer, you shouldn't tell the story.

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Speaker 1: For Gabby, the in person experience has been a lot

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Speaker 1: more positive.

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Speaker 4: Whatever you're doing here, and please keep doing that, like

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Speaker 4: whatever magic if you're actually a witch, you know whatever,

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Speaker 4: Like keep it up.

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Speaker 1: From Futuro Media and PRX, it's Latino Usa.

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Speaker 2: I'm Maria Ino Rosa.

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Speaker 1: Today we bring you a portrait of writer Gaby Rivera,

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Speaker 1: novelist and comic book author of Marvel's superhero America Chavis.

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Speaker 1: Before Gaby Rivera got into writing comic books, she wrote

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Speaker 1: Juliet Takes a breath. It's a twenty sixteen novel which

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Speaker 1: is a coming of age story about a young queer

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Speaker 1: Latina who leaves the Bronx, which is where she grew up,

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Speaker 1: and that novel got her some attention from an unusual place,

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Speaker 1: Marvel Comics. They asked Gabby if she would be interested

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Speaker 1: in writing specifically for their superhero America Chavez. After decades

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Speaker 1: featuring mostly white male heroes, Marvel Comics has recently been

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Speaker 1: making an effort to introduce more women, more people of color,

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Speaker 1: and LGBTQ heroes in their comics. But some people were

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Speaker 1: angry with these changes. Shortly after Gabby began writing for

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Speaker 1: America Chavez, she started getting threats and being harassed online.

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Speaker 1: This was a tough time for Gabby. Suddenly she was

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Speaker 1: swept up in an online backlash called Comicscape, which criticized

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Speaker 1: the comic book industry's attempts to be more inclusive. I

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Speaker 1: sat down with Gabby to learn more about her beginnings

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Speaker 1: as a writer and about her experience shape a queer

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Speaker 1: Latina superhero. During a really tense moment, Gaby Riveta, welcome

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Speaker 1: to Latino, USA.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Maria. I'm so excited to be here with you.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited too. I'm excited too.

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Speaker 1: So your favorite term for yourself is what quirky reekn

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Speaker 1: is what you are on Instagram. But you love to

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Speaker 1: call yourself a nerd, Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love nerd Burger, Butch the lover boy. I

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Speaker 4: have a couple of terms for myself.

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Speaker 2: Maria, keep on going, keep on going.

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Speaker 4: I think butch Dia is really the one that I'm

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Speaker 4: embodying these days, right because everybody has a Butch Dia.

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Speaker 4: You know, she's got her fade, she's got her corona.

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Speaker 4: She's sitting at the barbecue in the back, and she

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Speaker 4: loves you so much.

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Speaker 3: That's me.

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Speaker 1: You grew up in New York. You are not only

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Speaker 1: a New Yorker, You're from the Bronx. So tell us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about little Gaby Riberta growing up in

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Speaker 1: what part of the Bronx and what life felt like.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I was just a little baby in

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Speaker 3: the eighties growing up.

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Speaker 4: My neighborhood was, you know, that kind of mix of

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Speaker 4: like Bronx like hood ish but also some suburban right

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Speaker 4: at that like intersection of Westchester County in the Bronx.

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Speaker 4: I had my grandparents on my mother's side living in

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Speaker 4: the house with us, and we had my father's family

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Speaker 4: like two blocks away. So I was also always surrounded

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Speaker 4: by like my Puerto Rican family, and we went to church.

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Speaker 3: I grew up, you know, super religious.

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Speaker 4: Pentecostal, Puerto Rican evangelical, speaking in tongues, all of that.

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Speaker 3: Whoa and yeah, I know, you know.

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Speaker 4: It's also there was a kind of like a traditional

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Speaker 4: quote unquote, like a American sort of upbringing too, right,

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Speaker 4: Like my parents. My mom was a teacher, you know,

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Speaker 4: so she was taught kindergarten for thirty five years in

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Speaker 4: New York City. My dad was a salesman for Coffee

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Speaker 4: Boo for almost like thirty years of his life.

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Speaker 3: So there was kind of this like nuclear.

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Speaker 4: Family whatever Puerto Rican middle class looks like in the Bronx,

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Speaker 4: very strict but also very secure households. And in the

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Speaker 4: middle of that, you know, we were in the Bronx

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Speaker 4: and there was definitely struggle and violence.

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Speaker 3: It was wild to be in so many like constrained.

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Speaker 4: Morally good, controlled environments, right and then have all of

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Speaker 4: this like beautiful neighborhood chaos, real life, real people happening

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Speaker 4: all around me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you write your first novel in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: It's called Juliet Takes a Breath. It's a story that's

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Speaker 1: basically based on your experience of coming out to your family,

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Speaker 1: and you move across the country to do this internship

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Speaker 1: in Portland, Oregon. So when did you decide you wanted

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Speaker 1: to write this novel.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's just like a couple of like moments beforehand, right,

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Speaker 4: So at seventeen, I went to the New Yreek in

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Speaker 4: Poet's Cafe in East Village in New York, you know,

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Speaker 4: the birthplace of slam poetry, and it blew my mind

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Speaker 4: that like language could.

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Speaker 3: Sound like that.

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Speaker 4: Like again, I went to like all girls Catholic school

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Speaker 4: in White Plains, so the writing that I was doing

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Speaker 4: was very much like structured and following like with these

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Speaker 4: you know, well intentioned but white ladies were offering me

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Speaker 4: to read. And so at the New York in Poet's Cafe,

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Speaker 4: I heard like black and Puerto Rican and brown and

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Speaker 4: like after Latino and all everybody really just bodying language

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Speaker 4: and elevating it, so that I did performance poetry for

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Speaker 4: a while.

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Speaker 5: Maybe America just swallowed all of us, including our histories

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Speaker 5: and spat out whatever it wanted us to remember in

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Speaker 5: the form of something flashy, cinematic and full of catchy songs.

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Speaker 4: And the rest of us without that first hand knowledge

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Speaker 4: of civil unrest, and the rest of us who weren't

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Speaker 4: even born there, we just inhaled what America gave to us.

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Speaker 4: So poetry it was the thing that kind of burst

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Speaker 4: me open and allowed me to get comfortable and feel

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Speaker 4: alive speaking my truth. And so for Juliette Takes a Breath,

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Speaker 4: it is autobiographical. When I was nineteen, I fell in

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Speaker 4: love with a feminist book. I connected with the author,

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Speaker 4: I made an internship. I took my little Puerto Rican

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Speaker 4: queer behind from the Bronx to Portland, Oregon, and you know,

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Speaker 4: my whole world's kind of in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 4: just blue, wide open.

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Speaker 1: So you get a lot of success and attention with

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Speaker 1: your first novel, and then Marvel Comics reaches out and

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Speaker 1: they ask you to write for the character of America Chavis,

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Speaker 1: and this is Marvel's first Latina queer superhero.

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Speaker 4: Tough Is Boriguades said of the Hudson.

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Speaker 2: People, all so call me America Chaves.

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Speaker 6: Nice to meet you. Though I have a feeling you

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Speaker 6: won't feel the same way about me.

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Speaker 2: So what was that, like? Were you at all afraid?

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Speaker 4: Listen, I'm terrified all the time, right, like I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's the Catholic gill and the evangelical fear

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Speaker 4: of like the end of the world. Right, So I'm

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Speaker 4: happily terrified at all times. And when the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: write for America Chavez and again, like Marvel already had

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Speaker 4: America Chavez as a character in the universe and they

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Speaker 4: just wanted to tell a solo story for her, and

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Speaker 4: so I was excited to do that, and it was just.

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Speaker 3: A wild opportunity. Listen, buddy.

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Speaker 4: I when I was writing Juliette and I had no job,

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Speaker 4: and I was depressed and unemployed and going through like

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Speaker 4: the worst parts of my whole life, not sure if

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Speaker 4: I was going to survive. I was just like, please, God,

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Speaker 4: let this book at least give me just like an

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Speaker 4: opportunity one to get a job to support myself. And

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Speaker 4: then she comes out and then like, I get this

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Speaker 4: opportunity with Marvel, and I was like, Okay, let's do it.

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Speaker 4: I don't care that I've never written a comic before.

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Speaker 4: I don't care that this is the most like huge,

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Speaker 4: intimidating gig of a lifetime.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, We're just gonna do it. I don't care

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Speaker 3: that I don't know how to do this. I am

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Speaker 3: gonna learn. I'm gonna hit the ground running. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that you make America Chavi is

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Speaker 1: like not surprisingly pretty nerdy. She ends up going to

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Speaker 1: Soto Mayor University. Wink wink, Sonya Mayor. Yes, and I

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Speaker 1: love this notion of a superhero that is accessible.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Your whole thing is I want to make a superhero

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Speaker 1: super human?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, why Maria.

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Speaker 4: I feel like the only way that I've been able

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Speaker 4: to heal and grow as a person is by really

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Speaker 4: connecting to like the root of who I am. And

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Speaker 4: so with America Chavez, I was like, I want to

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Speaker 4: love her. I want everyone to love her, and I

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Speaker 4: want her to be goofy and relatable like every Latina

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Speaker 4: character for the most part, with the exception of like

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Speaker 4: Jane the Virgin and Ugly Betty are like these tough,

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Speaker 4: no nonsense, like all I do is like eat bullets

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Speaker 4: for breakfast, and like we can have those stories. Yes,

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Speaker 4: we can have all the Rosa Diazes and I love

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Speaker 4: Rosa Diaz.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to Stephanie Patrice on Brooklyn ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: I'm having dinner with my parents. You don't even like

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Speaker 2: your parents. You call them smiley morons and hug freaks.

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Speaker 2: Plans are plans. I'm a badass and I'm an anarchist.

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Speaker 3: But like, let's have a Rosa Diaz and let's have

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Speaker 3: her be goofy and have a moment maybe where she cries.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA. Gabby's America Chavez face is

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Speaker 1: a backlash.

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Speaker 4: Maybe this is a moment where I don't write comics anymore.

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Speaker 4: You know, maybe I don't need to go to comic

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Speaker 4: Con if all these people, these angry men hate me

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Speaker 4: so much.

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Speaker 2: Stay with us, Yes, hey, we're back.

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Speaker 1: And when we left off, we learned about Gaby Riveez

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Speaker 1: upbringing in the Bronx, and how her first novel led

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Speaker 1: her to write for America Chaviz, which is Marvel's first

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Speaker 1: queer latinas superhero. In this next part of our conversation,

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Speaker 1: we dive into Gaby's experience writing for comics. The comic

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Speaker 1: book industry has historically been dominated by white men. In

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Speaker 1: twenty ten, only six percent of mainstream superheroes were women,

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Speaker 1: but over the last ten years, Marvel Comics has been

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Speaker 1: trying to be more inclusive. They released an Afro Latino

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Speaker 1: Spider Man.

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Speaker 3: My name is Males Morales. I'm the one and only

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Speaker 3: Spider Man, at least that's what I've thought.

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Speaker 2: A Muslim American Miss Marvel.

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Speaker 5: A teenaged Pakistani American girl, and there's a very good

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Speaker 5: chance we'll get to see her the big screen in

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Speaker 5: the future.

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Speaker 2: And a female Foor.

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Speaker 6: Natalie Portman walking on the comic Con stage holding a hammer.

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Speaker 1: I have never gasped harder in my life.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: But some people weren't really happy about this. The reason

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Speaker 2: why comic book fans are so outraged right now is

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Speaker 2: because the characters they're invested in are going away.

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Speaker 4: The point is, most of these characters are completely pointless

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Speaker 4: carbon copies with only a few differences.

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Speaker 2: The Left really have a way of ruining everything.

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Speaker 3: Everything to them is a social cause.

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Speaker 1: The issue escalated in twenty seventeen after a Twitter selfie

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Speaker 1: of female employees at Marvel Comics was received with a

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Speaker 1: wave of sexist and angry tweets. This social media campaign

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Speaker 1: became known as comics Gate, which is a reference to

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Speaker 1: gamer Gate, a similar online harassment movement against women in

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Speaker 1: the video game industry. Comicsgate grew a large following on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and on YouTube, where some accounts made it their

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Speaker 1: main purpose to make hateful comments. I spoke with Gabby

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Speaker 1: about this difficult moment and what she sees as her

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Speaker 1: future in comics during this time, when America Chavis is

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Speaker 1: out in twenty seventeen, there's a moment where some women

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Speaker 1: who worked at Marvel post a picture on Twitter, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this picture starts this like ridiculously

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Speaker 1: hateful online backlash attack.

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Speaker 2: So what was this all about?

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Speaker 4: You know, I do not claim to understand at all

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Speaker 4: that type of like level of hate and being consumed

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Speaker 4: by wanting to take other people down. I do know

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Speaker 4: that for me, writing America Chaves really upset certain folks,

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Speaker 4: and they took a lot of time out of their

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Speaker 4: lives to make videos and to make media about how

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Speaker 4: much they hate me and all this stuff. And so

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Speaker 4: for a while, well that was really terrifying. Also, people

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Speaker 4: doxed me, and which means that like they took all

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Speaker 4: my information, put it on the internet, like made threats,

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Speaker 4: wanted people to come to my speaking engagements and harass

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Speaker 4: me and threaten me death threats, men reminding me how

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Speaker 4: ugly I am and how I'm a disgrace to Latini

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Speaker 4: Dad and all of these things that people do, and

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Speaker 4: it made me not want to do comics anymore.

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Speaker 3: And I was just like, damn, you know.

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Speaker 4: You know it's wild too, because there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: people in this world that I don't like, and I

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Speaker 4: don't spend my days trying to tear them down. So

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Speaker 4: I was just like, Wow, maybe this comics world isn't

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Speaker 4: for me. Maybe going to the police station to like

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Speaker 4: recall and to document that I've been threatened and sitting

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Speaker 4: there with my friend kat Lazo and trying to explain

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Speaker 4: why I feel scared and who was threatening me online,

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Speaker 4: maybe this is a moment where I don't write comics anymore,

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Speaker 4: you know, maybe I don't need to go to Comic

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Speaker 4: Con if all these people, these angry men hate.

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Speaker 3: Me so much. So that was tough.

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Speaker 4: But you know, once again, I just rooted in my communities, right,

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Speaker 4: I'm not writing for people with that much hate.

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Speaker 1: In prepping for this interview is I'm kind of looking

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Speaker 1: at what's happening, not only with your characters like America Chavis,

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Speaker 1: but Ms Marvel, the Muslim American. I gotta say, Gabby,

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Speaker 1: there's a part of me it's like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I gotta go down and get some comic books now,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like I want to read these things.

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Speaker 2: Now, and good right.

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Speaker 1: I know you're like, yes, Maria, But the same time,

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Speaker 1: I was so surprised to find that there are now

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Speaker 1: quote unquote all right comics that are being produced, and

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Speaker 1: that the people who attacked you on Comics Gate have

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Speaker 1: a following, especially on YouTube. What do you say to them?

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Speaker 4: I'm Maria, Like, at the end of the day, I

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Speaker 4: really just want everyone to kind of take a deep

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Speaker 4: breath and realize that it's all gonna be okay, and

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Speaker 4: it's okay. It's to love people, and it's okay to

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Speaker 4: move with compassion, and you don't have to be so

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Speaker 4: scared of losing your place in this world that you

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Speaker 4: want to resort to violence against the people that you

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Speaker 4: imagine are the reasons that you're losing that place. It

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Speaker 4: must be in a lot of ways exhausting to be

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Speaker 4: so angry and so scared and at the same time, damn, like,

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Speaker 4: how much more do you need from the world to

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Speaker 4: feel good about yourself.

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Speaker 3: I want to let everybody know that if you don't.

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Speaker 4: Want to read comics written by queer women, or black people,

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Speaker 4: or trans folks or any of that, there's lots.

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Speaker 3: Of comics written by white guys.

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Speaker 4: Just for you. What really saved me, and what really

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Speaker 4: turned all of this into big love, was when I

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Speaker 4: went to individual comic book shops and did signings. I

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Speaker 4: started doing that, and I shut off the Internet. I

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Speaker 4: shut off Twitter. I was off Twitter for like a year.

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Speaker 4: I blocked all those comments. I don't look at reviews.

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Speaker 4: But I got the courage to go to individual comic shops,

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Speaker 4: especially by invitation, and it was there and in colleges

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Speaker 4: also across the country, where I met really good, good

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Speaker 4: human beings who loved America, chaves who loved that there

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Speaker 4: were like women and queer people and brown people in

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Speaker 4: the comics, and yes, a lot of them look like me.

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Speaker 4: And you know what, a lot of them look like,

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Speaker 4: you know, regular ass white dude at the mall coming

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Speaker 4: up to me and being like, I loved America.

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Speaker 3: It was so nice, it was so refreshing, and I was.

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Speaker 4: Like, I must remember that, like it is not mainstream

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Speaker 4: culture that I'm a part of. I'm part of these

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Speaker 4: little pockets of good people everywhere doing their best to

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Speaker 4: just like love themselves and each other. And so comic

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Speaker 4: book shops that's where I felt love from com people.

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that you find a way to

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Speaker 1: take like the negative and then suddenly you flipped it

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Speaker 1: because you know, some people might have said, after what

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Speaker 1: you experienced with comic Skate that you would walk away.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you have said, Haha, I'm coming back, and

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Speaker 1: you have a new comic book. It's called bb Free.

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Speaker 1: It's the story of a fifteen year old Latina girl

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Speaker 1: who lives in the future in a post climate change America.

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Speaker 1: A plague has eaten all of the greed and greedy

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Speaker 1: people in the world, which I kind of love bb Free.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love her so much. Brown skin,

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Speaker 1: a little rednditas or a little you know, she's got

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Speaker 1: a little bit of how would you say.

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Speaker 4: She got a little meat gone.

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Speaker 1: On her and she's just adorable. I look at this

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Speaker 1: character bb Free, and I'm like, I want to read

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Speaker 1: this comic book right now. So tell us about what

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Speaker 1: gave birth to bb Free that.

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Speaker 3: You love her so much? Already, that's all I want.

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Speaker 4: What's fun about bbfree is that it actually comes from

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Speaker 4: a short story that I wrote. I write about the

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Speaker 4: plague it's called Imbalance all caps and the plague of

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Speaker 4: imbalance put out into the world by Mother Nature that

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Speaker 4: eats greed and ends up kind of killing everyone who

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Speaker 4: is essentially greedy. It starts with the one percent and

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Speaker 4: then kind of trickles its way down.

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Speaker 3: So what is that world?

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Speaker 4: And so we PLoP a beautiful Chabby, little fifteen year

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Speaker 4: old Puerto Rican girl from the Florida swamps, and she's bbfree,

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Speaker 4: and she wants to go on an adventure.

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Speaker 3: She wants to go on a road trip.

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Speaker 1: So finally, Gabby, I want to ask you about joy.

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Speaker 1: So you're launching a new podcast. It's called Gaby Rivera's

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Speaker 1: Joy Revolution, and basically you're asking people, you know, how

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Speaker 1: do you find joy in your life? So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to flip this on you and ask you, so, how

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Speaker 1: does Gaby Rivera find joy in her life?

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Speaker 3: Well? Number one?

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Speaker 4: And this is like a joy that is rooted in

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Speaker 4: acknowledging pain and suffering and the reality of the world

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Speaker 4: around us. I don't take it for granted that ten

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Speaker 4: years ago, I didn't think I was going to live.

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Speaker 4: I was having panic attacks. I had no money, I

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Speaker 4: had no future. My gender presentation was changing, and I

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Speaker 4: was like, well, everybody hates dykes, right, Nobody wants a

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Speaker 4: masculine lesbian around, So I'm never going to get a job.

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Speaker 4: I'm never going to find my place in this world.

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Speaker 4: So here now, ten years later, that I'm a thriving,

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Speaker 4: supported artist, writer making my way in the world.

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Speaker 3: That is my joy.

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Speaker 4: And I love myself, and I love myself enough to

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Speaker 4: be like, I don't need to give people who don't

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Speaker 4: love me my energy.

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Speaker 3: It's all good. I'd rather be here talking to you,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: Well, my dear nerd Burger, my dear quirky Reeken, my

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Speaker 1: dear butch Dia.

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Speaker 2: We just want to say thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: My gosh, what an honor, Maria, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Gabby Rivera's comic book BB Free is available now, and

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Speaker 1: her most recent production is Giving Birth to a Healthy

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Speaker 1: Baby Girl. Fancy that is Gabby. This episode was produced

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Speaker 1: by Fernando Diejas Fabian and edited by Sophia Palisaka, who

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Speaker 1: is mixed by Stephanie Lebau.

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Speaker 2: The Latino USA.

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Speaker 1: Team also includes Victoria Strada, Renaldo Lez Junior, Andrea Lopez, Russado,

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Speaker 1: Lori mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Penile Ramirez, Mike Sargent, Noor Saudi,

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Speaker 1: and Nancy through Higo. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso,

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Speaker 1: additional engineering support by Gabriel Abiaz and jj Carubin. Our

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Speaker 1: marketing manager is Luis Lunas. Our theme music was composed

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Speaker 1: by Seger Rovinos. I'm your host and executive producer Marienno Posa.

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Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode. In the meantime,

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Speaker 1: look for us on your social media and as always,

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Speaker 1: remember notes Gastalla proxima Joe.

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Speaker 6: Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment,

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Speaker 6: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians.

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Speaker 6: The Annie E. Casey Foundation creates a brighter future for

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Speaker 6: the nation's children by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity,

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Speaker 6: and transforming communities, and funding for Latino USA is Coverage

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Speaker 6: of a culture of health is made possible in part

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Speaker 6: by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm, wait you love Pippy long Stalking? I love

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Speaker 1: I love Pippy long Stocking.

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Speaker 2: How is that?

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Speaker 4: Can you feel it between us, the pippy between us