1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,159
Speaker 1: Welcome to two percent. I'm your host, Michael Easter. Today's

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: guest is Robert Young Pelton. Robert is a journalist who's

3
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,320
Speaker 1: been covering conflicts in war zones and all sorts of

4
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,600
Speaker 1: wild places for decades. This guy's gonna make a case

5
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: for why getting out of your comfort zone and taking

6
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 1: on a little bit of risk in life can really

7
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 1: enhance your life across the board, not to mention, this

8
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,760
Speaker 1: human being has the most insane stories I've ever heard

9
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 1: in my life, like the time he got kidnapped by

10
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 1: rebels in Columbia for more than ten days, early meetings

11
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 1: with the Taliban.

12
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 2: And much more.

13
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 1: This is an entertaining one, but it's also a really

14
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,720
Speaker 1: insightful one. So with all that said, we're gonna take

15
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: a break.

16
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:48,280
Speaker 2: We're gonna bring on Robert. All right. Well, Robert, thanks

17
00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,200
Speaker 2: for coming on two percent.

18
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:50,519
Speaker 3: My pleasure.

19
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,240
Speaker 2: All right. For those who are unfamiliar, what's the thrust

20
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:53,800
Speaker 2: of your work?

21
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 4: I focus on conflict, mostly emerging groups, So you know,

22
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 4: dirty wars, I guess is a good way to describe it.

23
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 4: But you know a lot of them are non state actors.

24
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,839
Speaker 4: They might be PMCs, mercenaries, rebel groups, Jiahatis. I spent

25
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,080
Speaker 4: some time with Special Forces, which of course is not

26
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 4: a splinter group, but they're an unusual group that doesn't

27
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 4: usually get covered. So I try to look at the

28
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,400
Speaker 4: sort of the cutting edge of conflict and warfare and

29
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,120
Speaker 4: what that means. So I guess that's the shortest way

30
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,199
Speaker 4: I can do it. But more important is I spend

31
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,039
Speaker 4: time with these people, so I'm I'm in the middle

32
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 4: of their world, and I spend quality time so I

33
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 4: can understand their motivations, what it's really like, et cetera,

34
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:35,440
Speaker 4: et cetera.

35
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 2: How long have you been doing this?

36
00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,119
Speaker 4: I guess since the early nineties. You know, I used

37
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 4: to be a marketing genius. I had a nice, big

38
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 4: office with my name on it, and I had fifty employees,

39
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 4: and I was on the ink five hundred number, one

40
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 4: hundred and forty six. And I did that transition when

41
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,560
Speaker 4: I'm the early forties, I guess. So you know I was.

42
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 4: I was getting in trouble before getting into try So.

43
00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 1: I want to give listeners some context here. What's the

44
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: sketchy situation you found yourself in.

45
00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 3: You're asking like a football player, what was his favorite.

46
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,960
Speaker 1: I love that you have to I love that you

47
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 1: have to you're going through a file and it's a

48
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 1: big file like that.

49
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 4: Enough, Yeah, it's not even worth trying to ask me

50
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,040
Speaker 4: what the most dangerous thing I did, because I wrote

51
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,240
Speaker 4: a book called the World's Most Dangerous Places. So if

52
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 4: I'm not in the most dangerous places, I'm not doing

53
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,399
Speaker 4: my job.

54
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:28,360
Speaker 3: So it's not like I'm.

55
00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,880
Speaker 4: An accountant who got caught up in some you know,

56
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 4: mall shooting.

57
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,799
Speaker 3: I literally go to find the.

58
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,120
Speaker 4: Most intense place I can find, and from that comes

59
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 4: a number of experiences.

60
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,760
Speaker 3: But I tell everybody everywhere I go, there's little old

61
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 3: ladies there. So it's not me.

62
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,920
Speaker 4: It's not for me to brag about how close I

63
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 4: came to death if you unless you can measure like

64
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:49,639
Speaker 4: a bullet.

65
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 3: You know, hitting a wall behind you.

66
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 4: But yeah, I guess the closest I came to death

67
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 4: was when a Liberian rebel shot a bullet like two

68
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 4: inches from my ear.

69
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 3: So that's that's a good measurable distance.

70
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,919
Speaker 2: What was going on there that you were over there?

71
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 4: It was a it was a gunfight on the road,

72
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 4: you know, when you when you're surrounded, and we were

73
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,440
Speaker 4: in Vanjamin, the.

74
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 3: Charles Taylor's forces used to attack us every day, and

75
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,520
Speaker 3: then the rebels would go.

76
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:14,840
Speaker 4: Out to meet them on the road and it all

77
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 4: starts shooting at each other until enough people died, and.

78
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 3: Then they go back to whatever they were doing before that.

79
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 4: And I tend to get up close to the action,

80
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,400
Speaker 4: so sometimes the people are shooting from behind me and

81
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 4: over my head. So but I mean, again, it's not

82
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 4: my place to brag about, because there's people that I

83
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 4: can leave a war anytime I want.

84
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,640
Speaker 2: Right, That's a really good point.

85
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 3: There's people that can't leave wars.

86
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 1: And you also left your marketing job in the nineties,

87
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,960
Speaker 1: so tell us how you even got into marketing in

88
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 1: the first place, and then what prompted you to leave

89
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: that role despite its success and the money and all

90
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 1: of that. That's a good question.

91
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,080
Speaker 4: So when I was a kid, I was sixteen, I

92
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 4: lived in a car. I was kicked out of the

93
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,480
Speaker 4: house when I was sixteen. I didn't have any money,

94
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 4: so it was cheaper to bout car. Then i'd get

95
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 4: an apartment and I picked fruit for living, you know,

96
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 4: the whole John Steinbeck thing. And I had taken an

97
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,240
Speaker 4: aptitude and interest test in high school and basically said

98
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,280
Speaker 4: I could either be an astronaut, an advertising man, or

99
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 4: an adventurer.

100
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,360
Speaker 3: So the only real job in there was advertising man.

101
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 4: So when I got tired of living in a car

102
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,840
Speaker 4: who was a nineteen sixty three Rambler Classic station bag.

103
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 4: Quite nice, you know, pulmanized, they called it, I drove

104
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 4: to Toronto and I called everybody in the phone book,

105
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,920
Speaker 4: literally starting with the a's, and said, I'm supposed to

106
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,960
Speaker 4: be an advertising man. I'm going to come down and

107
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,960
Speaker 4: you can give me a job. And they're like, sure, kid.

108
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 4: So three of those people, three CEOs, actually read to

109
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,360
Speaker 4: meet with me. And remember I'm sixteen going on seventeen

110
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 4: at this time. And I met one gentleman who was

111
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,960
Speaker 4: impressed with my goal I guess, and said, well, you

112
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,040
Speaker 4: know I started in the metal room, so maybe you

113
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,599
Speaker 4: can start in the mail room. Work your way up,

114
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. And I said okay. So I went

115
00:04:58,320 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 4: down to the memrooms.

116
00:04:58,960 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 3: So give me a job.

117
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 4: I said, what experience do you have in the meilroom?

118
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 4: I said none, he said out of here. So I

119
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,719
Speaker 4: worked as a mailroom in Merrill Lynch stockbrokerage for six

120
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 4: months to get experienced to come back and get a

121
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,359
Speaker 4: job in the mailroom what was in BBDO?

122
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 3: And I then began writing. I read all the mail

123
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:19,160
Speaker 3: as a mailboy.

124
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,719
Speaker 4: So I wrote a marketing plan which was distributed by

125
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,919
Speaker 4: the creative director and vice president to basically shame the

126
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,800
Speaker 4: creative people because they hadn't come up with some cool

127
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,839
Speaker 4: idea to get this account. And I remember him telling

128
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 4: me that he distributed this thing which I typed on

129
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,560
Speaker 4: a Remington and he said, you know who wrote that?

130
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 3: He said, you know, the mailboy wrote that. And you

131
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:41,720
Speaker 3: know much we pay him?

132
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,239
Speaker 4: Said dollar an hour. So everybody hated me, but they promoted.

133
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:45,880
Speaker 3: Me to copywriter.

134
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 4: Anyway, it's all long story short. I worked my way

135
00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 4: up and I moved to the States on Malania visa,

136
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,200
Speaker 4: you know, being a genius, and I started working for

137
00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 4: people in Hollywood in California and started my own company

138
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,599
Speaker 4: and it was very successful at solving corporate problems that

139
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,600
Speaker 4: people had because of my sort of ground truth approach

140
00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 4: to marketing research, which I had done when I was

141
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,040
Speaker 4: sixteen trying to get a job as a copywright. I

142
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 4: just go out and talked to people and ask him,

143
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,120
Speaker 4: what would you do? What do you think of this?

144
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: You know, how would you handle a lot of products

145
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,920
Speaker 1: and situation whatever, and.

146
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I have no fear. But you know, I

147
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 4: used to sell chickens when I was ten years old.

148
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 4: I went to a boys school that we raised animals

149
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 4: slaughter than sold intoor to doors.

150
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:33,599
Speaker 3: So I had been.

151
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,039
Speaker 4: I'd been, you know, taught how to fear no one

152
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 4: in the middle of the winter trying to empty your

153
00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,679
Speaker 4: basket of like bacon and ham and chickens or whatever.

154
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,839
Speaker 4: So and plus I enjoy talking to people. So anyway,

155
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 4: bottom line is that around when I was in my

156
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 4: early forties, the guy that i'd worked that originally I

157
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,279
Speaker 4: worked for, that had promoted me to be a copywriter,

158
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,279
Speaker 4: actually left his job after I left and moved to Spain.

159
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,440
Speaker 4: Bottom monkey put an earring in and started writing poetry,

160
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 4: and then after doing that for six months, sold the

161
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,159
Speaker 4: monkey took the hearing out through where the beret moved.

162
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,080
Speaker 4: Ben back with his wife and I think twelve kids,

163
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 4: and died of a heart attack, and I thought, wow,

164
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 4: he was like fifty something change. My father contracted Luke

165
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 4: Garritt's disease, which is a debilitating disease that takes you know, months,

166
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 4: So it took him two years to die and one

167
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 4: of my clients was playing racquetball, actually my largest client,

168
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 4: and broke his like his color bone, and it wouldn't heal,

169
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 4: and so he went back in and they did X

170
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 4: rays and they said, you got bum cans. He got

171
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,040
Speaker 4: like six months to live. So I had always taken

172
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,120
Speaker 4: a month off to do whatever I wanted to do,

173
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 4: because the test of a good business is that if

174
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,000
Speaker 4: you can leave for a month and it's still there

175
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 4: when you get you actually have a good business, right,

176
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 4: And so I would pick a place on a map,

177
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 4: and I just say I'm going to go, you know, Borneo, Africa.

178
00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:57,200
Speaker 3: Whatever.

179
00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 4: I did, things like the Camel Trophy. I drove around

180
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 4: the island of Borneo. I did all kinds of interesting things.

181
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 4: And sometimes there were journalists on these expeditions and they

182
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 4: were to make fun of me.

183
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 3: You're a dial a time.

184
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 4: You're like this business guy that you know takes one

185
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 4: month off to do something. And then back in the office,

186
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,520
Speaker 4: I said, well, what's real adventure? And I said, you know,

187
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 4: try to go into a country where they're trying to

188
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 4: kill you. And I'm like, what do you mean by

189
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 4: I said, Well, there's places on Earth where if you

190
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 4: go there they will kidnap you and shoot you, harm you.

191
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,800
Speaker 4: And I'm like, really, remember I'm not naive, but I

192
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,680
Speaker 4: didn't think of this as something you would do on

193
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,679
Speaker 4: your victy with your month off.

194
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,320
Speaker 3: And I was intrigued by that, and I'm like, well,

195
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 3: give me an example.

196
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 4: And they said, well, you know, like eastern Turkey, there's

197
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 4: this warlord in Afghanistan. There's all these militias and you know,

198
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,679
Speaker 4: nobody goes there. And I said, well, if I go there,

199
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 4: would you interview them? They go, oh, hell, yeah, right.

200
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 4: So my first trip was to meet a guy named

201
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 4: Bushak who had tried to kill a pope.

202
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 3: And we drove up on his compound.

203
00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,760
Speaker 4: And I didn't realize that they were These guys had

204
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,160
Speaker 4: guns trained on this because you know, a gun pointed

205
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,160
Speaker 4: at you is a very small visual object. So we

206
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,200
Speaker 4: drive right in and the guy wants to know what

207
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 4: I want. I said, well, I'm here to meet you,

208
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 4: and like, so, what right, And I'm like, yeah, but

209
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 4: I'm going to write a story about you. I'm going

210
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,920
Speaker 4: to do this and I'm going to send friends down

211
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:17,560
Speaker 4: to interview you.

212
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,680
Speaker 3: He's like, no, you're not. So he doesn't know what

213
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 3: to do, but he's polite because.

214
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 4: He's Kurdish, right, And he decides we're going to have

215
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,120
Speaker 4: a shooting contest. So I'm a pretty good shot. So

216
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 4: his bodyguard throws a pepsi can in the air and

217
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,200
Speaker 4: I nail it, right, And so he does that for

218
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 4: a Bushak and he misses, and then bush Ak nodds

219
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 4: to his bodyguard who walks over and executes the pepsi can.

220
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:40,840
Speaker 2: Right.

221
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 4: So that's that's how you learn things, right. It's like, yeah, well,

222
00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 4: the thing is that I learned that this is very interesting, right,

223
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 4: And as I set up these interviews for other people,

224
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,080
Speaker 4: I began to realize that, you know, these people are

225
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 4: spending a lot of time and to get me to

226
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 4: these places. So the next one was the Taliban, right,

227
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,320
Speaker 4: I set up interviews with the leaders of the Taliban,

228
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,320
Speaker 4: and again, you know, I'm very forward. And I remember

229
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,959
Speaker 4: meeting with the Talibs in Pakistan and the refugee camps

230
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 4: there where they bring the wounded, and I remember meeting

231
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 4: this old mulla and actually was a young buller, but

232
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 4: he looked like he was old because he had a

233
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:17,760
Speaker 4: big beard.

234
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 3: He had just kind of nineteen thirties.

235
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,440
Speaker 4: Pistol and bandolier with bullets, and I was explaining that

236
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,720
Speaker 4: I wanted to set up interviews with the Willis and

237
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 4: he said, no, it's it's impossible, and I said, well,

238
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,680
Speaker 4: because it's haram, right, it's forbidden. And at that time,

239
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,480
Speaker 4: the Talibs were very, you know, picky about technology and stuff.

240
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 3: So I said, well, then you're like women hiding behind the.

241
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,079
Speaker 2: Burg because you want a camera on them, right.

242
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 3: I was not.

243
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 4: Filming him at that time. I just said I was

244
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 4: setting up the interview, and he just sort of stopped

245
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 4: and there was a deep silence, and then he said, Okay,

246
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 4: I see what you're saying. Because my pitch was if

247
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 4: you want to communicate to the outside world, you need

248
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,400
Speaker 4: to be filmed, right. And they had a show in Cobble,

249
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,960
Speaker 4: and they agreed that they would do these interviews.

250
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,760
Speaker 3: And so I sent a friend of mine who's.

251
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,160
Speaker 4: And muzzlim Me's Turkish, and he interviewed all the tell

252
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 4: about I guess my claim to fame was it was

253
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,200
Speaker 4: fairly easy for me to approach these people and get

254
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 4: them to agree to be interviewed, which was confounding a

255
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,720
Speaker 4: lot of journalists. But you know, most journalists don't do

256
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,440
Speaker 4: what I do, which is go there directly and sit

257
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 4: and wait and make friends and talk to people.

258
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 1: How have you learned to read people and what they

259
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,559
Speaker 1: want from your interactions?

260
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,839
Speaker 4: Well, if they're shooting at you and they don't stop,

261
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 4: they probably don't like you, right, that's rule number one. Yeah,

262
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 4: it's no. I think most people don't like you. They're suspicious.

263
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,320
Speaker 4: Why would you spend time with me? What are you

264
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 4: going to film? Who are you really working for?

265
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 2: Especially if you're an outsider?

266
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,719
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly, And I don't know how much you've seen

267
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,840
Speaker 4: in my work or how much you've watched, but it's

268
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 4: my stuffs from the inside.

269
00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:56,839
Speaker 3: Right.

270
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 4: It's like, I'm there and these people never call me

271
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 4: up because I'm going to kill you, right like you

272
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 4: you you I did this and you.

273
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,439
Speaker 3: Said that I'm going to come kill you. No, nobody

274
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 3: does that.

275
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,440
Speaker 4: When I wrote my book, A License to Kill, I

276
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 4: got like indignant letters from some of the people and

277
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,319
Speaker 4: I said, I said, you shouldn't have been telling me that.

278
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 4: Then like, well you're not supposed to print out and

279
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, you were talking, but how did you

280
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 4: even remember that? It's because that's my job like this,

281
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,120
Speaker 4: So they but nobody exues me, right. They just literally

282
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 4: can't friggin believe that I remembered all that stuff they

283
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 4: told me, because they explained because I asked them questions

284
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,079
Speaker 4: like how does your business work, Like, you know, you're

285
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 4: with al Qaeda, and you want to know how do

286
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 4: you pay for this? Like how much does that cost?

287
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,439
Speaker 4: What is the salary of this guy? How many people die?

288
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:39,760
Speaker 3: Whatever?

289
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,599
Speaker 4: These are legitimate business almost like marketing questions, right, and

290
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,080
Speaker 4: how do you function? Competitive analysis, I guess would be

291
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 4: a good word. And and you know, I also ran

292
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 4: ground networks which did the same thing, very penetrating questions

293
00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:02,160
Speaker 4: in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Maanmar, Libya. So I take maybe

294
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 4: a business marketing humanistic sentiment into the battlefield, and I

295
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 4: think I humanize what these people are doing. And I'm

296
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,680
Speaker 4: very resistant to bullshit or propaganda because I used to

297
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 4: sling it, right, So I just think people respect that,

298
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 4: and people can talk crap about me, but I've actually

299
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 4: been pretty bulletproof. You know. There's been a couple of

300
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 4: times where people trying to manufacture crap against me, and

301
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, whatever, you know, But for the most part,

302
00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:33,000
Speaker 4: I think people say what was his motivation, what was

303
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 4: the end product? And did that accurately capture that group,

304
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,119
Speaker 4: that war, that battle, the era and they inverted is yes.

305
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,320
Speaker 1: What did you learn about people and what people desire

306
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:46,199
Speaker 1: from copywriting?

307
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 4: So copywriting is interesting because they give you a box

308
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 4: it's two inches by two inches, and they say fill

309
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 4: it with stuff, and you're going, oh, I got to

310
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 4: describe an entire truck. How do I do that in

311
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,200
Speaker 4: like one hundred twenty words or fifteen words or whatever.

312
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,320
Speaker 4: And you learn to shape and economize on what you're

313
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,320
Speaker 4: trying to communicate.

314
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,400
Speaker 3: And you also want to hit the button right.

315
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 4: You want to evoke some sense of emotional lust or

316
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,320
Speaker 4: desire for that thing, usually a very mundane thing, right,

317
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 4: And you're looking for people's emotions and maybe even their

318
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 4: weaknesses sometime. And if you get it right, they read

319
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 4: the ad. Most people don't read the whole ad, but

320
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 4: they read the ad and they feel.

321
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,840
Speaker 3: Good about the product. You know. I work with Steve Jobs.

322
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 4: On the launch of the Lease, which was a desktop

323
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 4: computer basically ripped off of the Xerox system, and I

324
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 4: think the price was ten thousand dollars then, and I

325
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 4: used to argue with Jobs. I said no, nobody's going

326
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 4: to put this on their desk. And he said no,

327
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 4: people that are cool put it on this desk. I

328
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 4: said no, because people that can afford this computer are

329
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 4: business people, and business people think computers sit.

330
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 3: On their secretaries desk.

331
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,560
Speaker 4: So you've got a blockage there between what you think

332
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 4: you're doing versus what people want. Right when it failed miserably, Okay,

333
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,120
Speaker 4: but you know I got along with jobs.

334
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 3: He was not a pleasant person to a lot of people. Yeah, so.

335
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 1: One of your goals of your work is to understand

336
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 1: the hearts and minds of the people that you meet.

337
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 2: Tell me about that.

338
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 4: Okay, So hearts and minds is literally a propaganda term, right,

339
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 4: So I don't know if I use that term.

340
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 3: What I want to know is context.

341
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,880
Speaker 4: Okay, when you go into a war, Yes, there might

342
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 4: be two sides, there might be twenty different sides, whatever,

343
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,280
Speaker 4: but you need to know the context of why these

344
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 4: people who would normally be baking bread or driving a

345
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 4: truck or whatever are now in a ditch shooting at

346
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 4: each other. Right. And I'm not a conspiracy nut, but

347
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 4: I know that it costs money to buy bullets.

348
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,240
Speaker 3: I know it costs money to give food to a soldier.

349
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,360
Speaker 3: I know it costs.

350
00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 4: Money to resupply ammunition and pay for people to bring this, so.

351
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 3: I'm really intrigued by that.

352
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 4: And this is one thing where whether it's the war

353
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 4: in Iraq and a you know, bs WMDs, or whether

354
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 4: it's the.

355
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 3: War and Iran now or the war in Ukraine or whatever.

356
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 4: I'm really good at dissecting the narrative versus the reality, right,

357
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 4: And people always want to tell you what's really going on.

358
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,080
Speaker 4: You know, you're you're you're in a freezing house in

359
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,360
Speaker 4: Ukraine and this guy's explaining that he used.

360
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 3: To be an.

361
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 4: Executive and now he's killing Russians with a drone and

362
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,040
Speaker 4: you know, Russians used to be their friends and now

363
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 4: they're the enemies and what the hell? And you know,

364
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 4: these people want to share their sense of bafflement sometimes

365
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 4: with an outsider. So this is this is a two

366
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 4: way street. It's not just me going, oh, I know everything,

367
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 4: I'm going to go home now. It's it's literally trying

368
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 4: to figure this thing out.

369
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, what have you learned from talking to war lords

370
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 1: in terras?

371
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 4: That business is a hard way to make money, but

372
00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 4: warlording is awesome. Like if you if you want break

373
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 4: out of the grind, you know, just be a warlord,

374
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,200
Speaker 4: because once you get past politics and laws and again,

375
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,720
Speaker 4: this is a very dangerous period in history we live

376
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 4: in where they just took laws and went up to go.

377
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,240
Speaker 4: Once you break the law, you're a criminal. But technically,

378
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 4: if it's lawless where you live, you're in charge. And

379
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 4: you see this in Sudan right with HAMETI. You see

380
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 4: this in Libya with Halftar. With these sort of constructs,

381
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 4: these proxies that have been created.

382
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 2: We will break.

383
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,880
Speaker 1: And then Robert is going to explain why surviving these

384
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 1: extreme and kinetic experiences really reframes and improves his relationship

385
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 1: to home. When you go to these places that are kinetic,

386
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 1: you go meet with the Taliban, how does that reframe

387
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,119
Speaker 1: your relationship to home once you get home.

388
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,719
Speaker 4: Well, I'm an anomaly. I don't have a heroin addiction.

389
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 4: I didn't read a book about, you know, passing out

390
00:17:59,040 --> 00:17:59,640
Speaker 4: on an airport.

391
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 3: I've never tried to kill myself.

392
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 4: I don't have any negative effects from all the things

393
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,439
Speaker 4: I've experienced. I've been married to the same woman for

394
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,879
Speaker 4: almost fifty years. I have a beautiful home life. To me,

395
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,679
Speaker 4: this was important to have perspective, just like when I

396
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 4: go into a client's office and he makes shoes or baseball.

397
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 4: Because I did the launch of upper Deck card, it's

398
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,639
Speaker 4: important to have another perspective. You can't be immersed in it.

399
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 4: So you cannot live in war. Right statistically, you're going

400
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 4: to get killed anyways. But you also have to be

401
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,359
Speaker 4: a good person. You also have to have a moral censer.

402
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 4: You have to have responsibilities, you have to make money.

403
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 4: You have to do like really dull, boring things, whether

404
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 4: it's cut the grass or take your dog of the

405
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 4: vet or whatever. So that's a discipline, and it's a

406
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 4: good discipline, and it's not one that people find cool.

407
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 3: And I don't have a tattoo. I feel so bad.

408
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,120
Speaker 4: I can't go on these bro shows because I don't

409
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 4: go to the gym.

410
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 3: But I'm happy and I'm seventy years old.

411
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 4: I'm happy.

412
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 3: I'm healthy.

413
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 4: I wake up every morning and listen to the birds,

414
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 4: you play with my dogs. I write stuff. If I travel,

415
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 4: I jump on a plane, I go to some place,

416
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 4: meet with some horrible person, you know.

417
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 3: So I it's hard to explain.

418
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 4: This, but it's maybe like a military lifestyle or like

419
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 4: an old explorer lifestyle where you have to balance both.

420
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, when people travel, a lot of times they will

421
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 1: go on the State Department website and they have the

422
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: sort of four rankings, which are basically safe. Two is

423
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,680
Speaker 1: exercise caution, Three is reconsider travel, four is do not go.

424
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 2: Do you find those to be accurate?

425
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 4: No? Come on, man, Like, when I started writing the

426
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,479
Speaker 4: World's Most Dangerous Places, it was as a response to

427
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 4: the complete idiocy of the State Department in not covering

428
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 4: real risks to travelers, right, whether it be diseased, whether

429
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 4: it be crime, whether it be violence, whatever.

430
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,360
Speaker 3: They cleaned up their act.

431
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 4: They got a lot of pressure about road deaths, you know,

432
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 4: like we got to talk about this, about this drug

433
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 4: they give be like whatever. So they try and then

434
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 4: what they did is they politicize it. And this is

435
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,679
Speaker 4: the point. They they don't want you to go to

436
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,679
Speaker 4: places that are not necessarily friends with the US. And

437
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,359
Speaker 4: it's a weapon, right, and insurance companies, businesses look at

438
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 4: that and going, well, you know, I'd like to set

439
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 4: up a hotel in Cuba, but I can't, you know,

440
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 4: sanctioned like cub was not our enemy. He was not

441
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 4: firing rockets into Miami. You know, it's like it's so

442
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 4: I don't tell. I don't tell people ignore it. I

443
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 4: tell them to absorb whatever you can. But there's a

444
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 4: reason why the State Department warnings are that bad.

445
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,640
Speaker 1: And when you get on the ground you often find

446
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 1: a totally different story.

447
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 4: Well that's the cliche, right, Like I went there and

448
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 4: I had a good time.

449
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 3: It's it's the.

450
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 4: State Department does have a lot of good statistics.

451
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 3: You know.

452
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 4: I was in Kenya in the embassy. I was picking

453
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 4: up a dead body and they had all these people's

454
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 4: luggage lined up and I'm like, what's that is that

455
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,199
Speaker 4: those old people that died last week? And I'm like,

456
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 4: holy shit, there's a story, right, And so she took

457
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 4: me through each piece of luggage and the roly luggage

458
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 4: and this person did this, This stepped out in front

459
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 4: of a van, and this person took the wrong medication.

460
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's the shit you need to put on

461
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 3: your website.

462
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: What are the big dangers of travel in your mind? Like,

463
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: what should people actually be worried about? Because I think

464
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: people go, oh, there's a you know, there's a rebel

465
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: group here, there's a drug cartel here.

466
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 4: So first of all, traveling is safer than staying at

467
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 4: home because you're entering an ecosystem designed to keep you safe. Right,

468
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 4: So typically when you get on a plane, they do

469
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 4: a lot more than you do when you get.

470
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,120
Speaker 3: In your comfort.

471
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 4: When you eat food at a restaurant, they spend a

472
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 4: lot more time making sure it's better than the crap

473
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 4: you beat at home.

474
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 3: I'm just saying the first of all, you're entering.

475
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 4: An ecosystem that's designed to protect people. Secondly, if you

476
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 4: look at risks that kill people, and I'm not talking

477
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 4: about expats that live overseas.

478
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 3: It's the same thing that kills you here.

479
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 4: It's it's literally drowning because you had too many beers

480
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 4: smacking your moped into a truck, you know, because you

481
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 4: don't know how to ride a moped. Heart attacks like

482
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 4: you know, dull boring stuff, and there is no like,

483
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 4: oh my god, don't go here because this will happen

484
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 4: to you. Now, there are some diseases that you can

485
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 4: pick up in tropical places. I would never eat at

486
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 4: a buffet and Cairo, for example, I would never take

487
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 4: an Acapoca dive tour. Like you know, there's just certain

488
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 4: things I wouldn't do because they're just like ripe for

489
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 4: killing people. But nine times out of ten, when people travel,

490
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 4: they have a less chance of dying than when.

491
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 3: They stay at home.

492
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 4: Statistically, you're more likely to slip in your tub and

493
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 4: hurt yourself than you are eaten by a shark kidnapped

494
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 4: by a terrorist.

495
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 3: I mean, the odds are embarrassing.

496
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: There are some really good statistics on exposure to transportation

497
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 4: and the dangers of how much time you spend. Right,

498
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 4: So then there are certain things you can look at

499
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 4: like should I take a bus or should I fly? Right?

500
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,479
Speaker 3: Should I ride my bicycles? Should I take a moped? Right?

501
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 3: That people ignore all the time.

502
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 4: Right, So the basic truths that guide you here are

503
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 4: the same ones that should guide you overseas.

504
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good lesson.

505
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 4: And by the way, there are people like if you

506
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 4: go to Marti Gras, I tell people this all the

507
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 4: time because I laugh. Go sit on the balcony, watch

508
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 4: the crowd, and the crowd will flow like a river. Right,

509
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 4: move and there'll be people that are sitting in one

510
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: spot and you'll see them signaling to people in the crowd. Right,

511
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 4: and you'll see this infrastructure this ecosystem of crime that

512
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 4: deliberately targets tourists, like go to an airport and Pakistan,

513
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 4: go to an airport in Mexico City, You'll see certain

514
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 4: people that shouldn't be there, and they're trying to hustle, right,

515
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 4: they're using tourists like like like piranha eat fish, you know,

516
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 4: or sharks eat minnows.

517
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 3: So you don't have to be a genius to stay

518
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 3: healthy and say, but.

519
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: It's kind of about paying attention and being aware in

520
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: the first well.

521
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 4: Yes, and this okay, So there is one danger, like

522
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 4: people get shit faced on vacation, right they assume that, oh,

523
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 4: I'm in a resort, so hey, let's go for that

524
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 4: eighth margarita and let's go, hey, let's go swimming, right, Like, yes,

525
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 4: there is that stupidity factory.

526
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

527
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: And in terms of like that the sorts of crime

528
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: that you were talking about, it's one not drinking enough,

529
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: but just paying attention to your surroundings in the first place.

530
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: Like I feel like people just kind of maybe they

531
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: don't do it at home, but on vacations just like oh,

532
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: thinks you're rid.

533
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, if.

534
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 4: You're looking for criminals, just go where tourists go, because

535
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 4: tourists get preyed on by criminals. Now, I'll tell you

536
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 4: a funny statistic that'll just the most dangerous country on earth.

537
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: Do you know that one?

538
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 4: No, statistically there you don't because nobody pays attention. It's

539
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 4: the Vatican, Okay, the Holy See statistically the most dangerous

540
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 4: place because it has more crime than any other country

541
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 4: on earth.

542
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 3: And people are going to say, oh, they're typing already

543
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 3: like that, guys.

544
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 4: Full of crat. No, what happens is they have so

545
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 4: many tourists that come to visit the Vatican, the Holy

546
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 4: See and whatever, and there are parking lots full of

547
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 4: criminals who watch people go knowing they're going to be

548
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 4: gone for two hours, three hours or whatever. And the

549
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 4: only place I've ever had all my stuff stolen, let

550
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 4: me guess, is the vatic When I came back to

551
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 4: the car, I looked around, and I looked at the hell,

552
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 4: and there's all these kids just sitting on the hell

553
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 4: waiting for people to lock their car, and like, look around,

554
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 4: you don't make sure they're safe, and then they run

555
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 4: down pop the trunk dealers crap.

556
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

557
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 3: And then when you go to the police.

558
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 4: They go, oh, what a terrible thing, and it's awful,

559
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 4: but they'll never find yourself. Right. It's a business, right,

560
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 4: So statistics can be misleading sometimes, but common sense is

561
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 4: always the best path.

562
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you been surprised by the sort of I

563
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: guess kindness and the people that you find in places

564
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: is compared to what's generally portrayed in the media.

565
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: You talked about propaganda, Ah, not really.

566
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 4: I mean, remember, I'm the kind of guy that's driving

567
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 4: down the road. I think it was Ohio or something

568
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 4: like that, and I saw this beautiful farmhouse on a

569
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 4: hill and this, you know, the sky's a dark blue color,

570
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 4: and they were like the windows were on and they

571
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 4: were yellow, and I'm like, I drove up the guy's driveway.

572
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 3: I bang on the door.

573
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 4: And I said, I need to take pictures of your house.

574
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 4: You might say, oh it is come on in, you know.

575
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: I said, no, no, I want to take picture just right

576
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: now because the light's ready. So when you're done, you

577
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 4: come back in, and you know, they give me food,

578
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 4: they talk to me what you're doing, you know, and

579
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 4: I send them pictures.

580
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 3: Now he thinks I'm a nice guy. I think he's

581
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 3: a nice guy.

582
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 4: It's no different when I'm on the front lines in Afghanistan.

583
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 4: People are like, oh, nobody takes my picture when I'm

584
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 4: at work, and I'm like, okay, I'll take a picture.

585
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: Are there assholes out there? Absolutely? Are there bad There's

586
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 4: a lot of tweaked people out there right that don't

587
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 4: like foreigners or white people whatever. You know, you've got

588
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 4: to watch for them, to watch their eyes and their movements.

589
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 4: There's a lot of people that are stoned. You know,

590
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 4: they're drunk. I want to do bad things to you

591
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: because they took some medicine or some chemical or drug alcohol. So,

592
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 4: but are those people here, Yeah, of course, I mean

593
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 4: so at the end of the day, it's it's you

594
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 4: learn to read people. You learn to find those people

595
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 4: that are nice to you, not trying.

596
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: To con you. And again, I've got a great BS filter.

597
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 4: You know. My whole life has been figuring out what's

598
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 4: genuine and what's not.

599
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 3: So maybe that's part of it.

600
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: Is it something to sort of should people sort of

601
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: listen to those spidy senses for a lack of a

602
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: better term, like, if something feels off, listen to that.

603
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 4: You're an animal, Yeah, of course you're an animal, right,

604
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 4: and animals only look forward, they don't look behind them

605
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 4: or whatever.

606
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: And I used to teach counter.

607
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 4: Surveillance to like a Special Forces unit out here in

608
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 4: San Diego, Special Operations unit. Most people live in a

609
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 4: very mammalian world, right. We're always in a hurry to

610
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 4: get somewhere. We're hungry, we're late, so we we look

611
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 4: this way.

612
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: Right.

613
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: We don't have eyes on the side of our head,

614
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 4: and we definitely don't have in the back of our head.

615
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 4: But if you stop and turn around and watch people

616
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 4: coming at you, or go down the back alley, loop

617
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 4: around and come back out and see you're still there,

618
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 4: you start, you know, figuring out their rhythm.

619
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: Right.

620
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 4: I remember I was telling you about Bourbon Street right

621
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 4: during Marti gras Is. It is an ecosystem, right, And

622
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 4: in the age of the technic or what you when

623
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 4: to call our people are like literally staring at their

624
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 4: phones looking around.

625
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

626
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 4: Right, So yeah, I mean I read a thousand page

627
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 4: book on this stuff. And you know, my podcast tries to.

628
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 3: Gently back people into this world. And the podcast is

629
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 3: basically the foundation for the next edition of the World's

630
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 3: Most Dangerous Places.

631
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 4: And I'm surprised how much of it focuses on psychological

632
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 4: dangers and technical dangers rather than physical dangers.

633
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: What are your tips for communicating with new people, your

634
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: meeting when you go to these places, How do you

635
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: approach those interactions?

636
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, the most interesting thing in the

637
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 4: world is not you, it's them, right, So it's it's

638
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 4: fairly I used to set up meetings, secret meetings between

639
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 4: one star American generals and Taliban leaders and cobbled and

640
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 4: I remember this one general was like, what the hell

641
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 4: am I going to ask this guy like? And he

642
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 4: demanded that I have my says guy and my SF

643
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 4: guy with a pistol and plane clothes. And I said,

644
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 4: no one's gonna shoot anybody, right, We're gonna have a

645
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 4: good meal. There's an Italian restaurant called Room, and I

646
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: would use the top slow and he said, what the hell?

647
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: Man like, you know, he's scared, And I'm like, okay.

648
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 4: Ask them abouts kids, talk about the weather, ask them

649
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 4: what kind of meal he likes. I mean, ask the

650
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 4: things you would ask your neighbor if you were at a

651
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 4: baseball game, you know.

652
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: And they would do this and then they would kind of.

653
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 4: Move into like why are you fighting mode? Right, that's

654
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 4: kind of discussion, and he's what they would come back saying, wow,

655
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 4: like I had no idea like of the history of

656
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 4: this place, the view of these people have of us, Like, yeah,

657
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 4: they love Americans. They won't know why the hell you're

658
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 4: shooting at them, because remember, you're the ones that helped

659
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 4: them get rid of the Russians. You believe in God,

660
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 4: pick up trucks and guns. You don't have a beard,

661
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 4: but you know the SF guys do, and they want

662
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: to get rid of bad had people and you're supposed

663
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 4: to be good people, but you're shooting at them and

664
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 4: they believe in God and all these looks. It's just bizarre,

665
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 4: right when you look at the context of some of

666
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 4: these wars we fought. But it allows these people to go,

667
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 4: I'm not afraid of the Taliban anymore.

668
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 3: I get them. I get why they're doing what they're doing.

669
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: That's such a great metaphor for so many things that

670
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: people fear.

671
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: What's that God's gun and pickup truck?

672
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: For half the country, we have linkages.

673
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: We have linkages with just about everything.

674
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you don't understand those linkages unless you go

675
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: actually have the conversation or do the thing.

676
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: You know.

677
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: It's like fear is kind of think, it's felt prior

678
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: to the actual experience.

679
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 4: All right, but I'll tell you a cautionary tale. So

680
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 4: when I went to Chestia, I had to link up

681
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: with every terrorist group, every military group, every political group.

682
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 3: You know.

683
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 4: So they said, Okay, who's this asquatch? That's Pelton. What

684
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: the hell is he doing here? You know, he's her

685
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: Russian spies. Is he trying to do something like? No, No,

686
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 4: he's the guy that writes that book.

687
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: He's cool. Right, he's on Discovery. Right. That was the

688
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: big thing I met with the FBI.

689
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 4: The FBI harassed me, like, we wanted all about your

690
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 4: trub I said, by my damn book. I said, come on,

691
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 4: tell us about your truck. I said, by my damn book.

692
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 4: You know, invest the money, use government funds. Like no, no,

693
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 4: we just want like we're big fans. We want to

694
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: sit down with you. Right, So these two guys sit

695
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 4: down with me, and I said, I tell them a

696
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 4: story of going to chest You wish you could read

697
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 4: and Hunter Hammer and right, it's a good story because

698
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 4: it's it's hillacious, right.

699
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: Just the amount of ordinance dropped on me and stuff

700
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: like that, and.

701
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 4: I said, I'll only do this if you give me

702
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 4: the transcript. You remember, FBI is just still take No.

703
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: They just sit there steret you and they wear these

704
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 4: like cheap polos and what they try to look like undercover. Anyways,

705
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 4: I said, when you write your report, send a copy

706
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: to me because there's a lot of foreign names.

707
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: And I talked fast and whatever.

708
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 4: So they leave. But a year later I get to know, Oh,

709
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 4: when did you meet with besides? I said, I didn't

710
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 4: meet with them.

711
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: I told you that. I said, I went to his

712
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: house and he was gone. I said, oh, okay.

713
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 4: Week later, Oh when did you meet I said, look,

714
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 4: send me the damn report because I have a terrible

715
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 4: feeling that you guys are idiots, so that you wrote

716
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 4: down a bunch of stuff that I didn't say.

717
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: So asked me another question. I said, look this bullshit.

718
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: I'm not doing this again.

719
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 4: So I lose my passport in istanbo I come back.

720
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 4: I have a Canadian passport and I tell the truth.

721
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 4: I go to the customs guy at LAX and I say, hey, man,

722
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 4: I lost my US passport.

723
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: You know who I am.

724
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 4: You can type my name in there, but here's my

725
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 4: Canadian pass music. Go in the room with the hookers

726
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: and the drug dealers. Okay, fine, So I go in

727
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 4: this room. I sit there for two and a half hour.

728
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 4: Now they're messing with me because they put your passport

729
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: on the wall and you can tell when you came

730
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 4: in and when other people are leaving. And I'm sitting

731
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 4: there and every time I go up to say hey man,

732
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 4: come on man, they put their hand on their gun

733
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: names sit.

734
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, we're going to play it that way. Fine.

735
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 3: I finally get called up. This guy opens a computer

736
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: and I say.

737
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: To him, hey man, I'm I'm fairly famous.

738
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: You just google me. You'll see who I am. You

739
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: can you know? I mean literally, my passport and my

740
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 3: visas are on the entry silence.

741
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: So he reads this report for forty five minutes and

742
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 4: I'm like, dude, but is this a book?

743
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: Like, come on back, like I'm a value of old

744
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 3: ag here.

745
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 4: He gets to the end of the thing and he goes,

746
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 4: that's pretty cool. You're famous, And I said, isn't this

747
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 4: how this conversation started? He gets me back by password

748
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 4: and they go.

749
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break, and then Robert's gonna tell

750
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: us about the time he got kidnapped, marched into the

751
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: jungle and thought he was going to get shot. Tell

752
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: us about when you got kidnapped in Columbia.

753
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: Was that all? Okay?

754
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: So I blame my wife?

755
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so right, I blame my wife. I was in Libery,

756
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 4: which I told you about, which was very gorey. You know,

757
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 4: my gunman gave me a severate head after a battle.

758
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 4: There are people eating things that they shouldn't eat, and

759
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: there's just a lot of shooting, a lot of dead people.

760
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 3: Okay, I filmed it all. Bring it back, give it

761
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: to Discovery.

762
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 4: They edit it, and to their credit, they ran it

763
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 4: and it was like holy shit, like like you know,

764
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 4: like that's on TV. It's like one of these like

765
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 4: sixties French movies like Mondo Connie. But I said, that's

766
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 4: what's happening right now in the country that we created. Liburier, right,

767
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 4: they're literally they have the what looks like the American flag,

768
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 4: they have the pledge of Allegians. These people are waiting

769
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 4: for American to save them. Somebody says, man, you tweet.

770
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 4: I said, no, I'm not tweeting this. How it is

771
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 4: in that place. Other people looked at like, damn man,

772
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 4: you got it, you know, And I said, okay, what

773
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 4: do you want me to said, well, you work for

774
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 4: National Geographic.

775
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: You should do a hiking and camping story.

776
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 4: And I said, I hate hiking and camping ever since

777
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 4: I went to this survival boys school.

778
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I said, okay, I'll do it. I get it.

779
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 4: Maybe I should just like shift a little bit into

780
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 4: the old expedition of stuff I used to do.

781
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: Right, So I always wanted to do the Darien Gap.

782
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 4: When I was nineteen, I hitchhiked from Vancouver down to

783
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 4: South America to Panama specifically, and at that time, this

784
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 4: was in seventy five, you could hike the Dairying Gap.

785
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: They's just say it was dangerous and people warned you off.

786
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 4: And I was running out of money, and I thought, hmmm,

787
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 4: do I hi the Darien Gap or do I go

788
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 4: live on a tropical island. I'm like, let me think

789
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 4: about that for a second, Like, okay, I'm going to

790
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 4: live on a tropical liland. So I went to San Andres,

791
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 4: which is a big drug smuggling center, and I broke

792
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 4: people out of jail, and I really enjoyed myself and

793
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 4: I did that, but I didn't do the Daring Gap.

794
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 4: So I went to my editor at National Geographic Adventure

795
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 4: and said, Okay, I want to find two young people

796
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 4: who want to hire, who want to hike the gap.

797
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 4: I'm going to be like the old burnt out adventure guy.

798
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 4: They're going to be the young, you know, adventure people,

799
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 4: and we'll talk about why we do what we do,

800
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 4: what's what's adventure, why the risk, blah blah blah.

801
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 3: It's a brilliant idea. Actually I get there.

802
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 4: I find two people who had no intention of hiking

803
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: the Darren Gap, but when they saw me doing it,

804
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 4: they go, oh, I'm going with Robert. So they were

805
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 4: twenty two twenty three, and we start off and they literally.

806
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: Fly a helicopter out to stop us.

807
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 4: Panamanian police fly a helicopter and say what are you doing?

808
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: And then they go, it's that guy, you know. So

809
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 3: I say, look, I've talked to the leaders of the FARK.

810
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 3: I interviewed all of them. I told him I was coming.

811
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 4: I talked to the leaders of the desk squads, Carlos Castano,

812
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 4: I set up an interview with him. I'm pretty comfortable

813
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 4: that I know all the groups here that if I

814
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 4: run into them, you know they can vouch for me. Well,

815
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 4: two days then there was an ambush and they killed

816
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,919
Speaker 4: an Indian guy, not our guide, but the guy that was.

817
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: On the path.

818
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 4: And we had a decision to make and I said,

819
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 4: I'm going to walk into the ambush. I'm pretty comfortable

820
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 4: with ambushes and I know what to do and whatever.

821
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 4: And they're like cool, and I'm like, no, it's not

822
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 4: cool at all. It's like really dicey because going to

823
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 4: be it's yes, exactly exactly. I said, we can turn around,

824
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 4: but they're going to see our footprints. We're in the

825
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 4: jungle right and we could go down into the wilderness,

826
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 4: but I don't think you guys are going.

827
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 3: To find your way out.

828
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 4: We were deep in the jungle and I said, I'm

829
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 4: going to walk into the ambush. You stay about five

830
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 4: hundred yards two hundred yards behind, talk really loud in

831
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 4: English when they start shooting.

832
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 3: If I roll left, you roll right and then and

833
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: then you can run away. Right.

834
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 4: But I think if I can make contact with these people,

835
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 4: I can find out who they are, what happened, blah

836
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 4: blah blah.

837
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: So that's what I did. And they were all jacked up.

838
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 5: Because they just you know, ambushed these guys and tell

839
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 5: Us put her hands up, put her hands down, do this,

840
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 5: and of course everybody bunched up and they wanted to

841
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 5: execute our guide and I said, no, you can't.

842
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 4: So why because I'm with the Discovery Channel, I'm with

843
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 4: Natural Geographic and these people know these brands, which is hilarious.

844
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 4: And then you'll be on prow for war crimes and

845
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 4: which is a ballsy thing to do when you.

846
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: Surround which you're at gunpoint in the jungle.

847
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 4: And we sat there with their hands on our head

848
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 4: and you know, on their knees. And this guy comes

849
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 4: up and he gets on a log and he starts

850
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 4: making a speech about where the farc, we're here to

851
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 4: liberate the people, a blah blah, his bullshit. And I

852
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 4: could see that the shirt was on backwards inside out right.

853
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 4: And when we had originally when I had walked up

854
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 4: to this abuish site, it said clearly on it. You

855
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 4: know auc Beck, which is the oldest desk squad in Columbia,

856
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 4: so I knew there.

857
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: So this is really strange.

858
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 4: And so I said to Mark, and do not speak,

859
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 4: do not speak Spanish. Do not give them any indication

860
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 4: you could speak Spanish. Just be stupid, stupid, stupid. And

861
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 4: Mark Bless's point of little head got really friendly with him,

862
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 4: but they were bullshitting him about being leftist gorillas, and

863
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 4: they were not.

864
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 3: They were right wing desks. And they went past us and.

865
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 4: They murdered all these people in a village we stayed,

866
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: and we were walked to gunpoint towards Columbia. And my

867
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: point is is that they couldn't communicate with their leaders

868
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: because we were so deep in the jungle, so the

869
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 4: radios didn't go all the way to their headquarters down south.

870
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 4: So anyway, when we got to this out, they made

871
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 4: us sleep in the middle of a soccer patch and

872
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 4: they had like five guys in each corner with their

873
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 4: guns on us, which I thought was kind of weird.

874
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 4: And then they took us into a graveyard in the morning.

875
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 4: I said, this is not working out the way it's

876
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 4: supposed to look. And they took Mark away and I said, oh,

877
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 4: if I hear a gunshot, that means that they just

878
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 4: shot him, right, And I said, but I don't think

879
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 4: they're going to shoot him, because we've been walking for

880
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 4: so long. It's kind of weird, right, So he disappears

881
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 4: and then they come from Mega said no, no, no, we'll

882
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: go together. There's no reason, like no, no. I just

883
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 4: argued with them. I said, no, fuck you, We're going

884
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 4: to go together. And so I kind of walked real

885
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 4: slow and oh, I got a time my shoe up.

886
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 3: I got to do this, and they didn't seem to care.

887
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 4: So I said, okay, they're not nervous about me kind

888
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 4: of lagging in.

889
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: So I come into the.

890
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 4: River bed and there's Mark in the middle of all

891
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 4: these old guys. It's like beautiful riverbed, like stones and

892
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 4: water flowing and all these horses with like silver decorated saddles.

893
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 3: And Mark's chained smoking now he didn't.

894
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 4: Smoke, puffing on a cigarette, and all these guys are laughing,

895
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 4: and I'm like, what the hell is going on here?

896
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 4: And Mark you they're not gonna shoot us, Robert and

897
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, they're not going to shoot us. They

898
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 4: said they're actually the death squads. They're not farking. I'm like, yeah,

899
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 4: that's right, Marks, that's right. So I've been telling you

900
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 4: for ten days.

901
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 3: So they.

902
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 4: Realized that they captured this guy and Collas Castano know

903
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 4: who we were. Carlos actually sent the press release out

904
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 4: to Reuter saying we were being held for our safety,

905
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 4: which is kind.

906
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: Of be us.

907
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 4: But they then kidnapped us again because they wanted me

908
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 4: when they found out that I was working Discovery. They

909
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 4: wanted me to interview their leader, whose name was Commander Aleman, who.

910
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 3: Says, not like the Nazis, just because I like to

911
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 3: be on time. And I said, I'm not in the

912
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: mood to interview anyone like, you know.

913
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 4: And he brought this big, fat guy with a red

914
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 4: cross on his t shirt and he said, that's our

915
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 4: human rights director. I said, oh, so that's the guy

916
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 4: that decides whether he used chainsaws or rocks to smash people's.

917
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: Heads, a human rights director for the death squads.

918
00:40:59,320 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

919
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 4: And I'm just like, this is irony defined and really,

920
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 4: I don't want to interview you. I have no interest

921
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 4: in promoting your whatever you.

922
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 3: Want me to do.

923
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 4: And then they all lined up, there's one hundred and

924
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: seventy six of them, and this horrible little abandoned think

925
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 4: of this ranch that we were being held in, and

926
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 4: they all came by and shook my hand, and then

927
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 4: you know, cheered and smiled, and then there was this priest,

928
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 4: and this priest took us into town and I said,

929
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 4: I just want a good meal.

930
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: I want a cold beer, I want a good steak,

931
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 3: and I want to eat too much, and I want

932
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 3: to drink tom I just want to sleep. I just sleep,

933
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: you know, without insects or anything.

934
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 4: So anyway, at the end of the day, we got

935
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 4: sort of kidnapped by the military who insisted I had

936
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: to go to the embassy, and they wanted me to

937
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 4: press charges. And I'm like, no, I said, when these

938
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 4: guys come from me with a little axe, you're not

939
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 4: going to be there.

940
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: And this is their war, it's not my war.

941
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 4: I'm the guy that went for a hike in the

942
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 4: middle of their military operation.

943
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: And that's just the way.

944
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 4: If you want me to press murder charges, Yes, I

945
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 4: met with these people. They went and murdered all these

946
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 4: people that we had met with. So anyway, that was

947
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 4: what happens when I go hiking, you.

948
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 2: Camping, which is why you don't like to hiking. Cap Uh.

949
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 4: Well, I end up doing that, but I don't I

950
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 4: don't choose to write about it because I prefer conflict.

951
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: You mentioned that you haven't.

952
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: Then you use the language tweaked like this hasn't had

953
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: these experiences affected you?

954
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: Going home? No?

955
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: I learned something from why is that? Well?

956
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 4: I learned something from people who actually fight for a living.

957
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 4: Is you need a decompression window. So when you are

958
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 4: in combat or in conflict, you're adrenalinist, just pumping, just

959
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 4: whether you like it or not, whether you could be

960
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 4: the coolest cucumber, it's still you're you're on edge, right,

961
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 4: you're paying attention.

962
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 3: Everything's crystal clear.

963
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 4: And you know I would have had I think I

964
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 4: have ADHD. So in a normal world, I'm I don't

965
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 4: pay attention, But in a in tense world, I'm like

966
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 4: crystal clear, Like I'm really really good in emergencies. And

967
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 4: you cannot go from an environment in which people are

968
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 4: trying to kill you all the time to an environment

969
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 4: where there's a backfire and a shopping mall and you

970
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 4: think that somebody's just fired off a rocket or a

971
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 4: gun or something. So you need that decompression. And if

972
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 4: you do that, then you don't snap at your wife,

973
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 4: you don't get mad about things, and you process what

974
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 4: you've seen right now. The other thing is I.

975
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 3: Don't kill people for living. So there's a big.

976
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 4: Difference between let's say, killing a child or a woman

977
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 4: or dropping a bomb on a girls' school or something

978
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 4: and having to process that. Right, I have not committed

979
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 4: crimes overseas or here. Actually I should, and I totally

980
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 4: respect that we put our troops through hlacious intense experiences

981
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 4: that are not processed, that are not decompressed, that are

982
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 4: not respected as being souls. Right, And I also include

983
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 4: brain damage from IEDs and.

984
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: Things like that. Right, there are a.

985
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 4: Lot of people who have been physically damaged that were

986
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 4: not treated properly.

987
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 3: And you know, I talked to lots and lots and.

988
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 4: Lots of people that have PTSD and they's just, you know,

989
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 4: they they can't deal with it.

990
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: It's and they trial different things.

991
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 4: And yes, there are ways to deal with it, but

992
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 4: it's got to be a respected.

993
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 3: Part of sending people to war.

994
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 4: And when I was a kid, I had relatives that

995
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 4: used to just sit old guys that were in World

996
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 4: War One and they would just spit into a can

997
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 4: and change smoke player cigarettes.

998
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 3: They never talked, never mentioned what they did in the war.

999
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 4: So we've always had it. We just we need to

1000
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 4: respect it. You know, we need and when we launch

1001
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: a war, we need to say, dude, whoever fired those

1002
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 4: missiles into that girls school is dealing with that right now,

1003
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 4: you know, and the stupid guy who told them to

1004
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 4: do that needs to be held accountable, you know. And

1005
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 4: so this is what's missing from warfare. It's kind of like, ah,

1006
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 4: I push about Boo, you know, Drone Boop. Anyway, I'm

1007
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 4: not a crusader for that, but they were in a

1008
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 4: different kind of warfare.

1009
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: You mentioned with the with going to Columbia, part of

1010
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: the thing was to have you explain why you take

1011
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: the risk.

1012
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: Why do you take the risk?

1013
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: Well, everything's the risks. I mean, you know, you got

1014
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 3: a one hundred percent chance of dying.

1015
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 4: It's just maybe you can help choose a little bit

1016
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 4: about how that happens. I have never When I was

1017
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 4: a kid, you know, I used to play chicken at

1018
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 4: stoplights with I used to hide down a mailbox and

1019
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 4: run out and see if the cars could stop in time.

1020
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I I was a terrible kid.

1021
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 4: I don't I don't think I view risk the same

1022
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,959
Speaker 4: way that other people do. And remember I keep saying,

1023
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: there's old ladies there, so it's not like I'm like, oh,

1024
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 4: look at this guy.

1025
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: He's walking on the street. There's a danger. I know.

1026
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: In Keshnya, you can become transcendent.

1027
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 4: So you know, I used to sleep above ground and

1028
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 4: they used to take out houses every night, and I

1029
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 4: slept like a baby, right, And they used to use

1030
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 4: these ergon rockets which were wud right, boom boo.

1031
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 3: Boom boom bo boom.

1032
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 4: I wake up in the morning and there'd be two

1033
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 4: house gone, two hours down, three out and four whatever.

1034
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: So you can become transcendent.

1035
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 4: And when I used to walk down the street and Grosney,

1036
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 4: people used to clap, you know because oh there's an

1037
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 4: American here, you know, like, yeah, he's brave and he's

1038
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 4: sharing this and that. But you actually don't believe you're

1039
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 4: gonna die, Like you literally like erase the fear. And

1040
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 4: a lot of people will tell you this story where

1041
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 4: you come under fire and your brain kicks into this

1042
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 4: higher level of survival where you're just smooth and practiced

1043
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 4: and whatever. And you know, I've seen this with some

1044
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 4: of the green brave friends I have, is they just

1045
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 4: kick it like and they'll kill five or six people

1046
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: and then go right back to what they're doing.

1047
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 3: So it's it's a really weird place.

1048
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 4: You don't want to be right, to be above the

1049
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 4: normal fear level, I guess is what it is.

1050
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you draw the line between a lot

1051
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: of people who do what you do, have died process?

1052
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: How do you draw the line between you're going there

1053
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: to get a story you think is important to tell

1054
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: versus the risk level is too high and it's becomes

1055
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: sort of dumb.

1056
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 4: I think I start with the initial impetus, Like the

1057
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 4: Iraq War was a good example I did. I helped

1058
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 4: make a documentary about just how terrible that war was

1059
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 4: sold and the amount of duplicity and lying and deceit

1060
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 4: that our government went through. When I say our government,

1061
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 4: I mean you know Bush Junior and the neocons to

1062
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 4: create a violent cataclysm meant that had nothing to do

1063
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 4: with America's safety. And I've lost friends in almost all

1064
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 4: those wars. But I lost one friend who was on

1065
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 4: the you know they talk about the horse soldiers, you

1066
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 4: know ODA five ninety five. I kind of adopted and

1067
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 4: they used my logo and I would make sure they're

1068
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 4: outfitted before they went out every time they were deployed

1069
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 4: with my dpix Skier nives And when I first met

1070
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 4: Bill Bennett, he was literally going in to get Mike's

1071
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 4: fan's body at Kelly Junky and He's like the guy.

1072
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 3: That's on TV, and I'm like yeah. He said, oh, man,

1073
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 3: I love that show.

1074
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 4: You got any hats, and so I said yeah, So

1075
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 4: I gave him some hats, and that kind of became

1076
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 4: their thing, right, And they had just spent two weeks

1077
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 4: dropping bombs on the Taliban and whatever.

1078
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 3: So Bill and I became very close.

1079
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 4: And when he went into the Iraq War, we talk

1080
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 4: all the time, and he sent me an email like, man,

1081
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 4: I don't think I'm going to make it out of

1082
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 4: this war.

1083
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 3: And I'm like why, man, Like why are you talking

1084
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: like this?

1085
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1086
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 3: I just got a bad feeling.

1087
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 4: And he was ready to go home and his wife

1088
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 4: had decorated his house.

1089
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 3: With welcome back. Bill had a young son and he

1090
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 3: was killed.

1091
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 4: He was killed in Ramadi wearing gear that had my

1092
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 4: logo on it. So you lose people and you have

1093
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 4: to respect just how important they were to their family

1094
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 4: or their friends and whatever. And I think if you

1095
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 4: multiply that times. However, many people died in the Iraq

1096
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 4: war on both sides, and also in this current conflict.

1097
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 4: Is it terrible thing to start a war like that

1098
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 4: without being able to explain to those families why people

1099
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 4: lost their lives.

1100
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: I don't know how.

1101
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 4: Many funerals you've been to for soldiers, or how many

1102
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 4: kids you've talked to the never met their dads or whatever,

1103
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 4: but you know it's a serious weight, right.

1104
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 2: What do you always take on your trips?

1105
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 3: Money? No, there's no better solution when you get in

1106
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: the shit than money.

1107
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 4: I take about five thousand bucks usually, although these days

1108
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 4: it's probably not the number one. You need to be

1109
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 4: brand new dollars, right, not the old and nobody takes

1110
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 4: the old shit anymore. And it's gotta be you got

1111
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 4: to break it down into twenties, fives, and ten so

1112
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 4: that you know the only thing you don't want to

1113
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 4: have just eight hundred dollars. Obviously, today everybody brings a

1114
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 4: cell phone, but I also bring a dummy cell phone.

1115
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 4: I have a special phone that can't be traced, can't

1116
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 4: be hacked. But if they wanted at the airport, more

1117
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 4: power to them.

1118
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 3: And it's so cool. It didn't even have a name,

1119
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: So it's like I take gifts for people.

1120
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 4: So on the high end, I'll take knives that I

1121
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 4: make the depske your knives, which are expensive knives, and

1122
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 4: they'll go to the commander's or somebody that did something

1123
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 4: you know, special for me and they're obviously well appreciated.

1124
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 4: I'll take small gifts. Well, I used to hang up

1125
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 4: mister deepe stickers, you know the ones that go on

1126
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 4: all the weapons. You see, hats, T shirts, stuff like that.

1127
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 4: Hot sauce. I always bringing crystal hot sauce because sometimes

1128
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 4: the food is not to your liking. Although again, like

1129
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 4: when I was in Ukraine, I hit the most beautiful.

1130
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: Restaurants you can imagine. I kept thinking, it's not like

1131
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 3: the old days. It's not like the.

1132
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 4: I think the SAT phone is, you know, I don't

1133
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 4: know if people run SAT phones or in reaches, And

1134
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 4: now apples now have the ability to text from your

1135
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 4: phone on a SAT network, which could come. I was

1136
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 4: in chat and my car broke down and so I

1137
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 4: had like an inReach and I was able to chat

1138
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 4: with people and using the satellite not the cell phone.

1139
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 4: Of course, I take like a first aid kit that

1140
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 4: inclods drugs for stomach upset or whatever. And a lot

1141
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 4: of times I buy those drugs there just you know,

1142
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 4: sipro and stuff like that. But I try not to

1143
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 4: bring too much.

1144
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: And of course I bring a dpscre and I but

1145
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 3: I being multiple DPSCRE knife.

1146
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 4: Sometimes iPads, like those small iPads are really helpful, you know,

1147
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 4: for maps and reading and stuff like that. But at

1148
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 4: the end of the day, you make the decision to

1149
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 4: bring either too much or not enough. And I always

1150
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 4: err on the side of not bringing too much. I think,

1151
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 4: if you're taking more than carry on when you're traveling

1152
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 4: around the world. And by the way, I bring cameras

1153
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 4: with me too, so it's not like I have a

1154
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 4: wardrobe whatever. I think. As I've lectured people many times,

1155
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 4: it's like, try traveling but nothing. It scares people, right,

1156
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 4: like don't don't go to a store and so, oh

1157
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 4: I need this because I'm doing that, and I got

1158
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 4: to get one of those, because the color. Don't take

1159
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 4: a water bottle, don't take the fancy shoes. Because I say,

1160
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 4: everywhere I go and I hire a guide, the guy

1161
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 4: just grabs a plastic bag, throws a toothbrush.

1162
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 3: And off we go.

1163
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and in today's world, you can get just about anything.

1164
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 3: Not me because I got size thirteen feet.

1165
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 4: But you can get just about anything you need anywhere

1166
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 4: in the world.

1167
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: That's a fun lesson for no matter who you are

1168
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: and where you're going. That's a fun experiment.

1169
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 4: The more stuff you carry, the more likely you are

1170
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 4: to lose that stuff. If you pack things like a

1171
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 4: twenty dollars watch, not a two thousand dollars watch, not

1172
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 4: your Apple watch, but I mean like a used Time X,

1173
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 4: you give it away, Like everything that you have with you,

1174
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 4: you should be able to give away. Maybe your iPhone's

1175
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 4: a little too precious, but then why are you taking it,

1176
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 4: you know, because then you've got something else to worry about.

1177
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 4: Why not take an old android, a piece of crap

1178
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 4: android or something.

1179
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, the.

1180
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 4: More stuff you carry, the more likely you are to

1181
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 4: lose it or to worry about it, which then creates

1182
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 4: a whole chain of Like I learned this, by the way,

1183
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,439
Speaker 4: because I bicycled across Europe and I thought, I can't

1184
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 4: do anything because I got this damn bicycle and I

1185
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 4: can't leave it anywhere, So I'm always worried about somebody

1186
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 4: to steal my bicycle. And when I told it was like,

1187
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,720
Speaker 4: I'm free, free it last right, I can go anywhere

1188
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 4: I want. Like when I was in the Vatican, they

1189
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 4: stole all my stuff. I thought, this is cool. Yeah,

1190
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 4: I need to brush my tooth. I'm gonna ask. I'm

1191
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 4: gonna buy a toothbrush. I need a new shirt.

1192
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go buy a new shirt. Like it's it's cool.

1193
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's just a great way to insert adventure

1194
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: into whatever wherever you're going. One thing that I when

1195
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: I was in i Raq, I found that American cigarettes

1196
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: were useful, particularly Marlboro's. It's like you just had someone

1197
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: to marb but they're immediately your friend and they'll talk

1198
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: to you.

1199
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 3: Correct.

1200
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 4: And I used to bring lots of cigarettes, and then

1201
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 4: I realized that people started vaping, and you know, it's

1202
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 4: and then they have all kinds of different duty restrictions

1203
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 4: for bringing cigarettes over and so I buy them locally.

1204
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 4: But yes, cigarettes are a great form of currency.

1205
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: Where are some off sort of off the beaten bath

1206
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 1: places that the average person could go that you recommend.

1207
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, we're all average, So I don't

1208
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 4: know why why you say that anybody can go just

1209
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 4: about anywhere.

1210
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 3: I guess this is what you want to do. I

1211
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 3: choose what I do because it interests me.

1212
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 4: But if it didn't interest me, I wouldn't do it

1213
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 4: like I would, you know, So if you don't like

1214
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 4: what I do, don't do that. Like if you're an

1215
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 4: art collector, if you're an archaeology or archaeological nut. There's

1216
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 4: so many cool places out there, like I like Libya,

1217
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,720
Speaker 4: you know, and people go, oh, here you go plugging

1218
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 4: a war zone.

1219
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 3: You can fly into Tripley. You can go to Magnus

1220
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 3: Left or Leptis Magnus, whatever it's called.

1221
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 4: See this amazing deserted city that's only like half excavator,

1222
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 4: not even that, And go, I just saw something that

1223
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 4: rarely anybody sees. And I'm like filled with love for

1224
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 4: history and the whole what happened. There's really cool places

1225
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 4: like Somalia. Go to Somalia and you can learn all

1226
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 4: about the ancient civilizations in Somalia, and go, I didn't

1227
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 4: know that, Like I really didn't know that they existed Ethiopia,

1228
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 4: I mean, and these people, these places all have active

1229
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 4: conflict going on, you know, not in the place you're going,

1230
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 4: but they they're considered you know, war zones. Afghanistan strangely enough,

1231
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 4: And here's the funny thing. So you go on YouTube

1232
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 4: now and what I used to do, which was like

1233
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 4: I'm going to this country, nobody's there, it's just me

1234
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 4: and they're just killing the hell out of each other.

1235
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 4: Now it's like I'm going to the world's most dangerous

1236
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 4: places and I didn't get killed. So we have a

1237
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 4: whole industry of people doing what I did with their phones, right,

1238
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 4: and you know, more power to them.

1239
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 3: I don't know why they should portray them as dangerous places.

1240
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 4: But I think the barriers are dropping, and you know,

1241
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 4: like I'd like to go to Iran right now because

1242
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 4: I think it's interesting to understand what the hell is

1243
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 4: going on in the run And I'm not supporting Iran.

1244
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 4: I'm not supporting, you know, the idea that I told

1245
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 4: us want to do all this damage to the global economy.

1246
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 4: But i just want to see it because I'm not

1247
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 4: getting like Al Jazeerah has a couple of guys there

1248
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 4: the runnings let in some Western journalists very briefly. I

1249
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 4: don't know what's going on in Gaza. I see some

1250
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 4: stuff from the West Bank. Is it biased? Is it

1251
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 4: true Lebanon's getting flattened. You know, it's there's just a

1252
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 4: lot of places where there's just I don't not a

1253
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 4: lot of interest in coverage that goes deep. Right, it

1254
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 4: has to be on the news every day. And this

1255
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 4: was what killed journalism was hotel journalism. Right, you got

1256
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 4: to be on the roof every night to pitch your story,

1257
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 4: and God forbid you go out by Rolls Royce, Like

1258
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 4: I didn't just get lost into the countryside at the

1259
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 4: peak of the war, because that doesn't work today in

1260
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 4: today's news.

1261
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: After all of your work, what do you think people

1262
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: often get wrong about what makes life worth living and interesting?

1263
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 4: Ohoh, okay, So we don't choose to be born, right,

1264
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 4: we're in either an accident like I was, or we're

1265
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 4: the love of somebody's eye and we just are raised.

1266
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 4: But you don't realize how the clock is ticking until

1267
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 4: you get in your forties. And even then, like I

1268
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 4: was woken up by my mentors and my father dying unexpectedly, right,

1269
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 4: and you know, I drove a Rolls rice, I had

1270
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 4: a beautiful home by the half acre on the ocean.

1271
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 3: I had my name on my building. What more could

1272
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 3: you want that?

1273
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 4: I had, but I thought, I need to do that

1274
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 4: thing that I always wanted to do, you know, the

1275
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 4: education side of it. And I got to get going.

1276
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 4: And most people say, well, I can't I need to

1277
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 4: do this, I can't do that because of this, and

1278
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, every second that goes by is a

1279
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 4: second you're not doing the thing that you really should

1280
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 4: be doing. If you're unhappy, If you're happy and keep

1281
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 4: doing that thing right and don't be afraid to reinvent yourself.

1282
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: Well, that feels like a great place, Dan, Robert, thanks

1283
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: so much for coming on the show.

1284
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the conversation.

1285
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 3: Oh my pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for having me

1286
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 3: on your show.

1287
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for checking out the show, and thanks to Robert

1288
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: for swinging by to tell us those wild stories with

1289
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: good takeaways. As a reminder, we're in your feed twice

1290
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: a week, so please keep an eye out for more

1291
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: review the show. Subscribe to the show that helps us

1292
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: and it helps you by keeping you aware of all

1293
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: the new episodes that are coming out. Check out the

1294
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: iHeart app. You can watch this show for free on

1295
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: it and as always, have fun, don't die, and listen

1296
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: to Robert. If you listen to Robert, you probably won't die.

1297
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 4: Glaska