WEBVTT - Fixing the Climate 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.320 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:14.240 Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:16.319 podcast that looks at the future and says, Oh, the 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.840 weather outside is frightful. I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren local Bon, 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.080 and I'm Joe McCormick. And uh, we're going to pick 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.040 up our conversation about climate change and what is what 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.920 can we possibly do about it to help mitigate it 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:32.239 or because in the previous episode we talked a lot 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:36.680 about how um global warming is real and that it 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:41.520 could have detrimental effects on everything stuff in the future. Yeah, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.360 and that it's being somewhat powered by the stuff what 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.240 we do. In other words, people are causing a rapid 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:54.520 acceleration of a more rapid acceleration, a more rapid acceleration 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.120 of the warming trend of the Earth, and therefore we 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.840 could we could be in some deep water because of 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.800 sea level rises. So we wanted to talk about what 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.200 we could possibly do to help them address this. Well, Um, 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.440 so people are talking are having this public discussion about 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:21.560 whether humans are actually causing climate change. Uh, let's assume 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.520 this argument just does not get resolved enough to stop 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.400 us from adding more and more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.479 and or that the way that society works, it's really 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.640 hard for us to cut our dependency on things that 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:42.080 create carbon dioxide emissions, like cars, power. I like electricity 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.160 a lot myself personally. All those things, Yeah, they add 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.120 to the problem. So, uh, what happens if we get 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.600 way down in that hole? Is there any way for 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.240 us to get out? All right? So this is a 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.000 great question to ask because I have seen in the 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:02.760 past people who where I are climate change deniers, if 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.560 you want to use that term, or they were. They 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.240 didn't deny that climate change was happening, but they denied 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.359 that there was anything realistic that we would do because 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.080 they didn't want the impact for it to be, you know, 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.360 a negative economic impact or negative impact to lifestyle. In 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.120 other words, they didn't want their lives to be compromised 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.200 by the fact that there's this massive thing going on. 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.360 So they said, I'm not worried because science will fix it. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.120 Technology will fix it. There's also a little bit of 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.359 research that's been done into the economics of climate change 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.440 and global warming, and people have said that in developed 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:44.040 countries at any rate, um the innovations needed to deal 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:49.480 with the warming weather will create um more jobs and 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.239 more money. Well and there in those specific areas. There's 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.880 also the economic argument about how developed countries can have 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.560 the luxury of investing in tech anologies that would remove 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:07.720 a dependence upon carbon emitting technologies, whereas developing countries would 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.400 not necessarily have that same luxury, and denying an entire 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.399 huge segment of the world's population access to the same 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.600 sort of comforts that we enjoy in other parts of 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:22.359 the world seems harsh when you remember that carbon contains 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.200 a lot. You know, you can get a lot of 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:26.880 energy out of carbon. In fact, that's why we depend 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.920 upon it so much. So to tell an entire huge 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.480 part of the world, hey guys, I know you're not 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.640 where we are right now, and you would really like 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.040 to be able to I don't know, eating stuff, but 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.040 stop using this thing that has all this power in 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.240 it and uh and and deal with that. That's that's 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.360 a denical reality, right. Yeah. So so a lot of 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.680 people they think, well, maybe we can turn to some 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:56.640 sort of like uh, crazy solutions to reverse engineer the problem, right, So, 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.400 for example, carbon capture, I've heard of that. Yeah, So 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.040 carbon capture and sequestration. What what is that? Is that 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.960 where where you you get like a net and you 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:13.840 uh andfferent net. Sorry, I thought we were doing a 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.120 beach blanket bingo thing here for a second. No, it's 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.960 not where you get a net and you capture carbon 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.800 and you drag it off kicking and screaming. Uh. It 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.960 really is talking about putting in systems in uh, in 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.359 places where a lot of carbon dox i gets released 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.440 in the atmosphere normally, so things like power plants, you know, 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.160 anything that's like a coal firing power plant would be 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:40.320 an example. Two capture the CEO two being given off 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:44.520 in that in that system, which could be a different 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.920 approach depending upon the actual system you're talking about. In 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.120 some cases you might get almost pure CEO two being admitted, 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.880 depending upon again what what it's coming from, in which 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.680 case capture would be a little easier. If the CEO 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.680 two is actually in a mixture, then you have to 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.520 figure out how are you going to deal with all 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.360 of this. But the idea is that you capture that, 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.680 you then put it someplace where it's not going to 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.920 get into the atmosphere. And the two big choices of 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.000 just capturing it and then putting it somewhere else. Are 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.919 either to pump it into the uh the ocean, deep 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:22.200 into the ocean, like deep undersea or underground. And by underground, 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.480 I mean you know hundreds of meters underground. You're you're 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:30.880 trying to pump c O two into a porous rock 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.440 formation that hopefully has a non porous formation above it, 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.120 which will block the c O two from filtering back up, 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.920 and the c O two will become trapped underground. Uh, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.440 there's actually room for giga tons of c O two 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.039 underground in this way. And in fact, this is a 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:51.159 technology that oil companies already use when they're exploring for oil. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.320 They'll pump c O two down in order to try 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.960 and find oil deposits. So the technology, the basic technology 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.599 to do this is already there. It's not being used 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:05.120 in this application, but the actual tech exists. Uh. But 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.960 but wouldn't putting a whole crap ton that's the scientific 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.039 term of c O two down into a place that 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.920 didn't already have it change? Well, if you're talking about 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.920 strata under the earth that's hundreds of meters below, it's 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.920 gonna change things in a way that doesn't really affect 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:24.480 us in any way, the same sort of thing as 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.320 if you were to find a natural gas deposit or something. 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.839 So if we're talking about the ocean, we're actually there 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.719 are some concerns here obviously. For one thing, in our 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.120 last podcast, we discussed the fact that c O two 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.400 and seawater can combine in a way that ends up 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.320 lowering the pH of sea water. So pumping a lot 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.840 of c O two into the ocean could end up 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.279 affecting the pH levels of at least the region around 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.720 wherever it is you're pumping the the c O two 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:55.320 into that has a potential for affecting an entire ecosystem 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.200 under the water. So obviously that is something that would 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.960 have to be studied in depth before we were to 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.680 roll that out on any kind of wide scale basis, 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.320 because you don't want to end up removing c O 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.840 two from the atmosphere, pump it into the ocean, and 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:14.320 just create a brand new set of problems. So that's 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.440 one possibility. I think that the one about essentially shoving 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:23.480 an underground is something that could at least in theory, 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.280 takes some of the burden of CO two emissions uh 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.840 out of the picture. Although obviously we don't have a 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.080 way of doing that for things like personal vehicles. You know, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.440 we we're talking about these massive plants and manufacturing facilities. 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.360 That would be a big benefit, but it's only part 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.320 of the equation. Can I ask you a question? Sure, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.840 go ahead? This process sounds energy intensive, especially if we're 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.240 already what we're trying to do is offset the carbon 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.600 we're putting into the atmosphere creating energy. Well, at least 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.360 the pumping creating the pumping carts certainly would require its 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.360 own energy. I mean, capturing is you could you could 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:05.480 potentially create a mostly passive system to capture c O two, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.240 but it wouldn't you know, I would imagine a power 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.880 system would be more efficient. But when you're talking about 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.720 pumping CEO two under the ground, that's gonna require energy. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:15.760 So you have to figure that out exactly. You know, 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.560 you can't. Are you just gonna have a massive petroleum 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:22.360 burning generator that's that's just releasing more c O two 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.720 into the atmosphere while you're pumping. Now, grant, you know 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.440 you're talking about different scales here too. The amount of 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.840 c O two omitted by a like a power company 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:35.800 coal burning plant is way higher than than yeah, a 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.920 pump exactly. So, um, you know you're looking at a scale. 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.920 You're talking about reducing c O two emissions. You're certainly 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:47.360 not talking about eliminating them. But that's that's one suggestion 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.599 of using technology to try and fight this off. But 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.760 there are a couple of other ideas, you know, like like, 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.720 what's this geo engineering thing I see on our outline, 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.760 Joe geo engineering. Um, there's there's a lot of exciting 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.959 stuff in this one. Oh boy, some route words. Okay. 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.800 So if y'all like the plots the bad guys come 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.640 up with in James Bond movies, oh do I you'll 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.280 like geo engineering. You don't look like blow Feld for 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:19.240 you know, just out of look you look like Donald Pleasant. 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:24.120 Thank you. But between between aggravating James Bond being chased 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.760 by Michael Myers, my book is full. Go ahead. Uh 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.280 so you've got one about about reforestry, I believe, Well, 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.160 see that's a tough one. Okay. So there are all 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:41.640 these ideas about how we could make major changes to 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.880 the planet Earth that would help offset the either the 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:51.560 heating effects of of global warming or the atmospheric carbon 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.080 situation that causes or in a few that I'm going 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.600 to talk about the radiation itself that's reaching near Yeah. Um, 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.160 so to one way or another change the planet to 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.840 help offset the bad effects of this or to keep 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.520 it from happening in the first place. Um And and 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.559 they say, well, okay, so we know there's gonna be 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.320 a lot of carbon out there, so just what are 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.880 we going to do about it? One idea has to 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:21.240 do with plants. Okay, so forests and plants they create 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.160 energy by photosynthesis. So they take in carbon dioxide from 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.959 the atmosphere and nutrients from the soil, and energy from 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.600 the sunlight and they use all that to turn that 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:35.280 carbon into plant matter. Um. And they create cellulose and 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.080 release oxygen and stuff. Yeah and so so wait this 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.200 sounds great. So it's taking all the carbon out and 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.240 it's releasing where's the problem. Some people have said, hey, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.440 I know, we'll use this kind of principle, this plant 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.040 based principle in the ocean. And this is this idea 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:55.400 of ocean fertilization. If you heard of this, pray tell 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.720 what is this ocean fertilization that I would like to 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:04.679 talk about. Ocean fertilization by way of anecdote parable all right, 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.800 go ahead, okay. So there is a Guardian article from 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:14.160 two twelve that tells the story of an American businessman 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:19.800 from California named Russ George. Um, and he had an idea. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:26.839 He said, okay, well, plankton like iron. Um a lot 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.560 of iron in the water that they use this as 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.920 a new trient. They gobble it up in the population 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.839 is bloom. Well, so they are photosynthetic, and that means 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:40.400 plankton absorbed carbon dioxide like trees do. The idea of 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.479 ocean fertilization is you put the iron in the water, um, 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.360 the plankton gobble it up, and they gobble up C 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.920 O two. They die, and then they take the c 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.080 O two to the bottom of the ocean with them 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.720 when they sink. So that's sort of like a natural 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.960 way of like sequestering the carbon dioxia, getting rid of it, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.360 putting it somewhere else. They put it in their bodies, 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.240 they sink to the bottom, then they've got it down 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.080 there out of our hair. Right. Well, it turns out 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.000 it's not that simple. So Mr Russ George he went 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.160 off the west coast of Canada and dumped about a 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.400 hundred tons of iron sulfate in the water. According to 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.839 this article, that sounds like a lot. Yeah. Um, and 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.520 it spawned a plankton bloom as large as ten thousand 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.440 square kilometers. Um. Now you may have heard before of 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.880 blooms in the water being related to actually not so 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.640 wonderful effects. Well, anytime that you're changing an ecosystem like that, 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.280 if you've got too much of something at the bottom 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.120 of the food chain, what's that going to do to 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.360 the rest of it? Yeah, there are all kinds of 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:51.240 questions about whether this uh well, number one, whether it's safe, 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.920 and number two, whether it even works in the first place. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:58.359 So scientists are still not sure whether this iron fertilization 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.880 process will actually keep the carbon locked and sequestered at 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:03.400 the bottom of the ocean, or if it's only a 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:08.000 temporary thing. And then also they raised all these uh, 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:12.160 you know, concerns about how it affects ecosystems in the water, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.640 about how it can produce um chemicals in the water 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.120 that are toxic and you know, so in other words, 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.800 you're doing more harm than good. Yeah, And in fact, 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.880 I think some people think that this can actually worsen 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:28.200 global warming in fact, Nature, the journal of Science Nature 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.719 published a paper about how ocean fertilization should be completely abandoned. 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.120 They published that back in two thousand nine, and uh, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.240 in fact, I can I can quote a little bit 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.480 from it is it is already commonly accepted that ocean 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.480 iron fertilization should not be rushed into as a mitigation strategy. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.240 The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change regards it as supported 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.040 by neither appropriate assessment of environmental side effects nor a 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.880 clear institutional framework for implementation. Similarly, last year to United 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:04.760 Nations Conventions path resolutions restricting large scale ocean iron fertilization activities, 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.040 citing concerns about the environmental risks and lack of a 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.000 scientific basis on which to justify such activities, concerns that 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.240 have been recognized for some time. A Royal Society report 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.280 released this month emphasized that the technique has a relatively 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:22.480 small capacity to absorb carbon and comes with quote probably 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:29.200 deleterious ecological consequences end quote. Yeah. So, uh, here's our 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:35.400 first major geoengineering scheme thumbs down down. I think I think, uh, 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.080 I think I gotta go with nature on this one. Well, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.960 I've got a I've got a question, Um, so if 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.640 the Earth is getting hotter, maybe we can't do anything 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.400 about the carbon. Maybe it's just gonna be there and 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.080 it's gonna trap this, you know. So radiation comes down, 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.520 it comes back up, but it doesn't escape the atmosphere. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.680 What if we could reduce the amount of radiation coming 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.800 in in the first place? Right There are a bunch 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.640 of ways that scientists, mad or not are trying to 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.360 solve that problem. There's there's a the concept of cloud 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:11.440 reflectivity or cloud brightening, which says that and and no 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.120 one's really sure exactly what affect clouds have on climate 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.520 right now in terms of I mean, because they they're 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.440 going to reflect sunlight from the sun, but they also 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.040 do absorb some of the radiation coming back up from 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:26.320 the earth. So is it a net loss? Is it? 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.240 Is it just do you break even? And we're not 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.000 questioned about that, and we're not sure. But there's a 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.800 concept that if we can create more low reflective clouds, 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.240 that that could be awesome. Um. One idea for this 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.840 is that we could get these boats out onto the 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.160 ocean that are shooting seawater and therefore a salt high 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.560 into the air, creating large bright clouds with the help 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.680 of the salt, because adding particles to the air creates 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.480 more smaller water droplets, which creates clouds with a greater 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.680 surface area for reflecting sunlight. Um. I mean you know, 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:59.920 we could We could even put wind powered boats out 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.120 there that would drag propellers through the water to generate 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.120 the electricity to create the spray. So other than creating 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.880 the boats, this could be a pretty green adventure. I 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.840 just imagine all these fish flying up into the atmosphere 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:18.480 like that poor frog photo in a great some kind 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.960 more sushi for me. It's just called the killing floor. 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:28.360 There's really a sluice there. Um. However, this could potentially 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.040 lead to drought in areas down wind if if you, 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.400 because these clouds would be more rain resistant than normal clouds, 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.280 and so therefore it might be bad for already drought 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.000 potential areas. Gotcha. So again, another another potential solution that 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:50.120 could end up having unintended negative consequences. Absolutely, and since 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.600 we're not sure about clouds, roll and everything in the 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.680 first place, it's a pretty big question mark right now. Um. 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.640 No I had mentioned salt in the air helping create 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.320 these reflective clouds. That's technically an aerosol, which are which 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.320 is just solid particles of matter in the air. And 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.040 now different air sels can reflect or absorb some light. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.280 We talked about this in the previous podcast I believe, 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.800 you know, for example, carbon tends to absorb radiation and 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.600 keep it in Earth's atmosphere, whereas things like sulfates and 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:23.520 nitrates will reflect. So there's an idea to inject sulfates 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.160 into the stratosphere to provide more of that reflection. Um, 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.159 there's there's a lot of potential here. According to NASA 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.120 models estimate that air sels have had a cooling effect 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.080 that has counteracted about half of the warming caused by 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.439 the build up of greenhouse gases since the eighteen eighties, 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:43.960 which is significant. However, you know, there's you know, a okay, 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.840 a model from the University Washington said that this will 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:52.520 never fully offset climate change. And furthermore, the idea of 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.280 just toss and stuff up into the air could have 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.200 serious I mean, obviously could have serious impacts on your ecology. 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.439 You have if you have chemicals combining in ways that 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.720 you had not anticipated, then you could end up with 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:08.280 things like acid rain or certainly different rain rain that 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:13.480 perhaps environment is not used to Um. There's another one, 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.360 and this is my favorite, and that is space mirrors. 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.040 Mirrors in space like a compact for the Earth or 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.919 or I'm really picturing this is the most James BONDI 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.399 of all of these, I think, um and okay, so 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.639 as Mr Burns, Yes, I think Mr Burns is really 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.520 a failed Bond villain if only he could cross cross 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.560 platforms there um. Now. Scientists have estimated that you'd only 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.720 have to deflect about one percent of incoming solar radiation 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:50.160 to completely offset climate change. That sounds cool, um right, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.080 except for the part where that would require maybe six 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:59.040 hundred thousand square miles of mirror or many mirrors put together, 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.159 which which is a bunch and probably expensive. There there 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.040 are two different leading ideas for space mirrors right now. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.480 One is to launch um launch one out in between 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:10.800 the Earth and the Sun at a gravitationally stable point 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.239 about four times away from Earth is the Earth is 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.560 to the Moon. If that just made SENSEI um. And 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.560 the other is to create a network of stable mirrors 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.959 in orbit around the equator, so it would be like 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.639 a swarm of mirrors. It would be like a like 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.200 a ring like we would have our own ring around 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.359 the planet. Yeah, a, this is this is a huge 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:37.680 expensive project, and be especially that that ring of mirrors 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.199 could create some really weird weather effects, uneven global temperature changes, 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.359 causing droughts in some places like for example, the America's 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.280 and northern Eurasia, which happens to be where a lot 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:52.240 of things get grown. So yeah, so well, hey, hey, hey, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.000 I got I got a solution for you guys. Nanotechnology. 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.200 Put a period in it. We are done. I love 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.159 how nanotechnology is the illusion of everything. It's a magic 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.479 wand isn't it. You know, in the future, they'll they'll cue, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:11.360 they'll cue, they'll cure chronic elbow pain with the nanotechnology. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:13.720 Hey hey, nano robots in my blood are going to 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.480 do that, so they might. So nanotechnology is it's a 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.399 legitimate field. So even though we're joking right now, it 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.320 is very much legitimate field and there's some amazing science 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.080 coming out of it. But again, I think some people 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:31.200 point to nanotechnology like it's a cure all automatically, somehow 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.560 knowing how to make very very tiny things will solve 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.879 all of our scientific problems. It's like it's like people 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.680 use the idea of quantum in like science fiction or healing, 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:49.240 or or just using the word science. But you say, 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.880 so is this for real? Nanotech? Nanotech for real can 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:57.600 give us very helpful ways of of of dealing with 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:01.560 this situation. But so now, technology as a platform, it's not, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:03.479 it's are It's not just a platform. It's not just 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.560 like nano technology is. You know, you wouldn't go into 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.480 a scientific laboratory and just see a big vat that 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.480 says nanotechnology and like I need some of that. Uh No, 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.399 we're actually talking about making improvements to existing technologies through 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:21.200 the discoveries we make in nanotechnology. For example, solar cells. 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.320 So one of the issues we have with solar cells. 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:25.240 You know, these are of course the cells that we 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.920 use in solar panels to collect solar energy and converted 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:30.879 into electricity. One of the problems you have is efficiency. 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.479 How much of that energy are you actually harnessing and 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.639 being able to convert into electricity usually tends to be 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.040 somewhere in the neighborhood. You know, you have laboratory conditions 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.720 that can get up higher than that, but in general 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.280 they're they're pretty lows. That means you're you're losing of 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.400 that energy. Uh, and that's one of the arguments against 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.000 using solar energy in various applications, saying that it would 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.960 be more expensive than alternatives, there's a higher startup cost, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.160 it's not as efficient. Then you have all these other 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.760 issues you have to worry about. Well, nanotechnology is one 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:05.719 of those things that has taught us a lot about 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.280 nanostructures and the way that light behaves in nanostructures, and 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.000 but designing specific nanostructures, we can actually direct more light 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.640 down to hit the solar cell, so you lose less 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.400 of it in reflection and and that way you can 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.199 make the solar panels more efficient. So by making that 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.520 more efficient, you make get a more viable alternative to 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.160 fossil fuels. So that would take some of the demand 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.200 from fossil fuels off and put it into a renewable 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.080 energy source. Now I feel like you're talking in a 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.560 more feasible right. Well, when you say something like material science, 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:41.159 that's a little bit more. You know, on similar terms, 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.199 if you so, if you have better roads than all cars, 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.760 whether they're electric or not, are going to be more 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:51.240 energy efficient. But the you know, creating the infrastructure to 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.320 create better roads requires a lot of cement. Cement is 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.480 really energy inefficient to create. So if we could build 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:01.040 a better cement exactly, or you could use is nanotechnology 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.280 again to design lighter but strong materials and build vehicles 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:07.320 out of that. That means you need less fuel to 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.879 move those vehicles around. So again, this is one of 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.440 those things where nanotechnology can help in sort of an 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:15.440 indirect way, but they can make you know that that 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:20.240 discipline can help make other technologies more efficient and uh 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.959 and less let me put less of a burden on 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:27.440 us and when it comes to energy. So this brings 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:31.159 it full circle for me because I think, uh, it 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.119 sounds like, well, maybe we could do something with carbon sequestration, 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:40.280 carbon capture and sequestration that may help maybe, Um, most 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.600 of these other plans sound kind of mad scientist, not 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:47.800 very feasible, maybe making things worse. What's the real way 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:50.560