WEBVTT - George Massenburg

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Says Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest today is producer, engineer, technical wizard George Massenberg. George,

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<v Speaker 1>you wanted to talk about skiing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd rather talk about AI.

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<v Speaker 1>You'd rather talk about AI? Tell me your thoughts about AI.

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<v Speaker 2>I think most of the public conversation has been misled

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<v Speaker 2>and is misleading. Kind of summarize it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, but let's sort of buy for Katie here. Are

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<v Speaker 1>you on the side of AI is scary or the

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<v Speaker 1>hype is too heavy.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm certainly of the opinion that some tech millionaires are

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<v Speaker 2>making a lot more money promoting AI, and I've recently

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<v Speaker 2>found out a little bit more of the dollars where

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<v Speaker 2>the dollars move. But I'm not scared of anything. I

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<v Speaker 2>love technology. The misuse of technology I have problems with.

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<v Speaker 2>But I love fixing things. I love getting things to work.

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<v Speaker 2>And for the past couple of years, my programmers and

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<v Speaker 2>I have been working with AI to suggest code and

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<v Speaker 2>it speeds things up. By the way, it also gets

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<v Speaker 2>about half of what it states is fact wrong. That

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<v Speaker 2>is code that doesn't work or code that causes things

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<v Speaker 2>to crash, and code is code. I mean you have

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<v Speaker 2>to run code, and if it's wrong, it crashes. So

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<v Speaker 2>we have to be as careful as we are with

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<v Speaker 2>AI generating code. We don't do any generative AI with code.

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<v Speaker 2>We use it to wire controls in some of these

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<v Speaker 2>development applications.

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<v Speaker 1>So, George, you just sent me a document saying why

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<v Speaker 1>does AI generated music sound so shitty? So why does

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<v Speaker 1>it sound so shitty?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there are a few reasons. Well, I guess the

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<v Speaker 2>reason at the top of my head is that we've

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<v Speaker 2>been years trying to make incrementally better music as we

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<v Speaker 2>learn how to live and how to communicate, how to listen,

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<v Speaker 2>how to spread out our interests that we allow other

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of music, other cultures in And it's certainly what

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to do is to make is to understand

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<v Speaker 2>better how to communicate with music, how to help artists

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<v Speaker 2>make music better, communicate what they're trying to say. And

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, that presumes that artists always have something

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<v Speaker 2>to say. And you may have an opinion on that,

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<v Speaker 2>but the bottom line is we love making music. This

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<v Speaker 2>group of seven of us, and you've interviewed half of us,

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<v Speaker 2>I think, but I've lived a life of music in

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<v Speaker 2>its group Bob, It's brought me tremendous joy when I

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<v Speaker 2>stumble on something I've been working very hard at and

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<v Speaker 2>finally I make it work or it clicks or it

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<v Speaker 2>has some magic, and it it affirms my life. It's

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<v Speaker 2>the best thing I could, best way I can put it.

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<v Speaker 2>I love music. Okay, that's your general philosophy. But just

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<v Speaker 2>restating the question, why does AI music sound so bad? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>here's the list. I'll work my way from the bottom up.

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<v Speaker 2>Missing the feel.

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<v Speaker 1>AI.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you think of it in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>what AI doesn't do. It doesn't copy paste happiness. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't doesn't do joy. Joy is very personalized, its individual.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't have the tools yet to tell a story

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<v Speaker 2>in time, Bob. You know groove as well as any

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<v Speaker 2>of us. Groove is, in one way of looking at

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<v Speaker 2>groove is a story between musicians and time. Musicians for me,

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<v Speaker 2>musicians in the studio where a great guitar player proposes

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<v Speaker 2>a groove to somebody else in the room, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>what can you do with this, Bernard or whatever that

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<v Speaker 2>might be. Groove is a story in time, and you

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<v Speaker 2>hear groove that's written to me everywhere. Mariacchi, you know

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<v Speaker 2>the feel of mariachi is the feel of the groove.

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<v Speaker 2>How something to the uninitiated sounds a little bit like

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<v Speaker 2>a lurch off the forela, and that's groove, or in

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<v Speaker 2>one way of looking at that's groove. And AI doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>do groove. Now maybe eventually you could learn. But the

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<v Speaker 2>very heart of AI, the heart of AI, is nothing

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<v Speaker 2>but a machine that does a comparative analysis and a

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<v Speaker 2>thing called correlation, auto correlation, relative correlation. And the reason

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<v Speaker 2>it soaks up so much power is the way I works.

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<v Speaker 2>And you've heard it put this way. I know where

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<v Speaker 2>you take two call them data sets, and you sort

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<v Speaker 2>on the correlated parts of two data sets. I'll get

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<v Speaker 2>I'll get a lot simpiler in a minute, two correlated

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<v Speaker 2>parts of data sets, and you're building a large model library.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, that's the expensive part of AI, is

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<v Speaker 2>building the large model library. But all you're doing is

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<v Speaker 2>finding commonality. And you're doing on more than this, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's very core. You're finding a commonality between data sets

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<v Speaker 2>and what I would propose in its most rudimentary form,

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<v Speaker 2>it's turning all of these different data sets looking for

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<v Speaker 2>commonality into mush into beige mush. Nothing too surprising. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't do anything terribly extraordinary or terribly Monday. Actually it's

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<v Speaker 2>all Munday, and if you want to look at it

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<v Speaker 2>that way. But it's selling some kind of genius that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just not seeing. I think there's been tremendous room

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<v Speaker 2>for we practitioners who use AI to take an idea,

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<v Speaker 2>see what AI has to say about it, and then

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<v Speaker 2>adds something of our own. And one thing that I

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<v Speaker 2>would suggest is there's a lot of room to add

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<v Speaker 2>it of our own feeling and knowledge. And it's sets

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<v Speaker 2>of music and joy. There's no joy. Yeah, AI doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>do joy. Oh god, I'm sorry. I'm running on of

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<v Speaker 2>no no, no, no no no, I have these is

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<v Speaker 2>all going to get cut.

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<v Speaker 1>No no, no, no, no no, this is this is genius.

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<v Speaker 1>Keep going. How'll come? Insiders like you and Don was

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<v Speaker 1>have no fear of AI and music and everybody on

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<v Speaker 1>the business side, and those who are not on the

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<v Speaker 1>inside creatively are freaking out.

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<v Speaker 2>I love Don and for all the times that we've

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<v Speaker 2>been in the studio together, and you have to remember,

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<v Speaker 2>because you've been here with this, I know where we

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<v Speaker 2>spend about five minutes hacking, hacking, doing work and doing

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<v Speaker 2>some edits and then the next fifty five minutes telling stories.

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<v Speaker 2>And Don's stories are great, and he's worked with everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just love working. He's a great guy to

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<v Speaker 2>hang with. Why does Don tend to think about it

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<v Speaker 2>the same way? It's the first I've heard of it.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't talked to Tom in a couple of years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and I would say that he's a thinking man's producer.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the thinking man's producer with a great, great field.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I'm surprised you haven't haven't heard that he's out

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<v Speaker 2>with us.

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<v Speaker 1>With the Don has told me. He said, AI is

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<v Speaker 1>a tool, just like with the lin drum. He had

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<v Speaker 1>Lynn drum number three I think it was, and he

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<v Speaker 1>asked Roger len who had number two? Because Roger had

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<v Speaker 1>number one. He said Prince. And then Don messed around

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<v Speaker 1>with it, couldn't figure out any great thing. And then

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<v Speaker 1>he heard princes when doves cry. And then he says, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I see what you can do with it. And he

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<v Speaker 1>feels the same way about AI that yes, I feel this, Ye,

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<v Speaker 1>it will have us, but it's not going to replace

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<v Speaker 1>the underlying music.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not going to replace the inspiration. So again you

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<v Speaker 2>know if you scroll to the bottom, no real intentionality.

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<v Speaker 2>AI doesn't get into a gig with the intention of

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<v Speaker 2>a quality even reviewing its quality. To ask another add

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was chat GPT if there was any

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<v Speaker 2>recycling of data in LIED and said, no, there's none.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's that's a lie. It does recycle data because

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<v Speaker 2>it does need to study its recommendations and make sure

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<v Speaker 2>it's not echoing one of those early completely racist AI

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<v Speaker 2>agents that put out like the worst recommendations, the worst language,

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<v Speaker 2>hateful speech. And you've read about that, and it may

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<v Speaker 2>have been early Meta that did that, just hateful, hateful speech,

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<v Speaker 2>and they went in and started fishing for ways to

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<v Speaker 2>limit that, they being the few programmers that really understand

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<v Speaker 2>how the AI algorithms were. So what I would what

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<v Speaker 2>my mind jumps to is is how great Prince was

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<v Speaker 2>because he you know, we all worked with Prince. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>you remember Cavala Ruffalo, they managed Prince and they got

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<v Speaker 2>me the gag mastering some of the Prince stuff because

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<v Speaker 2>Bernie Grutman couldn't deal with it what Prince was making

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<v Speaker 2>him do. May he may rest in peace because he's

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<v Speaker 2>he was the genius. He was on with true independent inspiration.

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<v Speaker 2>But but that thing that he discovered because we saw

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<v Speaker 2>him use the drum machine, he used stock Lynn Lynn

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<v Speaker 2>Allen one. We saw Ellen one when when David David

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<v Speaker 2>Foster asked Roger Lynn to show it to him. So

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<v Speaker 2>that was that was number one where it was still

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<v Speaker 2>breadboards and uh boy, you could you could see the possibilities.

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<v Speaker 2>And Prince saw it in three D. He was musically

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to say, emotionally and technically a study

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<v Speaker 2>in real creativity. Let's go back to the beginning of George.

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<v Speaker 2>So where do you grow up? All over the place.

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<v Speaker 2>My father was an Air Force surgeon, so I grew

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<v Speaker 2>up in four or five different cities. My father was

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<v Speaker 2>from Macon, Georgia, mother was from at that time Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 2>My grandfather was a mukeeting bucket Exxon which was called

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<v Speaker 2>Standard Oil. And so the most memorable times in my

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<v Speaker 2>life were going to after they divorced, visit my father

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<v Speaker 2>in Macon, Georgia, and have this experience with Southern radio

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<v Speaker 2>that changed my DNA at the very heart is growing

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<v Speaker 2>up listening to when I was in Macon, listening to

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<v Speaker 2>race radio, listening to early black radio, and as near

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<v Speaker 2>as I can figure. My father was a surgeon for

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<v Speaker 2>the better part of the black community of Making, Georgia.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know whether he was the surgeon for notable musicians,

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<v Speaker 2>but he might have been. So I've got something you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to have to cut out. My father was the

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<v Speaker 2>only surgeon in town that would put his hand up

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<v Speaker 2>a black man's ass to check for growths. And why

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<v Speaker 2>do we have to keep out? Oh? I love you

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<v Speaker 2>more and more, Bob Okay, use it. But he was.

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<v Speaker 2>He was. The quarter of his year was charity surgery.

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<v Speaker 2>He was, in my mind, a hero. Even though he

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<v Speaker 2>was a terrible alcoholic and hated being a doctor. He

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<v Speaker 2>did use it. But growing up in Making, Georgia expose

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<v Speaker 2>me to the early bird groups and I would turn

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<v Speaker 2>on the radio and I as a seven year old,

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<v Speaker 2>which is her raw sex pour out of the radio,

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, well that's for me. I didn't know anything,

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<v Speaker 2>but I loved music, and that was a side of

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<v Speaker 2>music that I wouldn't have heard any other way. So

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<v Speaker 2>that was Making. And we were also Scottsfield, Arizona, and

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<v Speaker 2>be fifty twos flew Over and my brother and my

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<v Speaker 2>nephew are service families in the Navy. My nephew is

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<v Speaker 2>an air boss on an aircraft carrier, and my brother

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<v Speaker 2>rose to I'm so proud of my brother. We grew

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<v Speaker 2>up miles apart. My brother went into service and was

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<v Speaker 2>in naval Rotzzi and interviewed with Rumsfeld. He was one

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<v Speaker 2>of the top ten guys in service. And we never

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<v Speaker 2>spoke for years and years and years, and then when

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<v Speaker 2>we did, we realized how much we loved each other.

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<v Speaker 2>But now I'm really getting farfield. I was a family

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<v Speaker 2>and I was you've interviewed ry Cooter would refer to

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<v Speaker 2>him as I was always a George. I was always

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<v Speaker 2>a marginal person. I felt that way. It was always marginal.

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<v Speaker 2>I was a terrible student. It was horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait a second, Okay, so only two kids in the family,

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<v Speaker 1>you and your brother.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we have an extended family yet cousins and nephews,

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<v Speaker 2>and well in the primary family was my brother. And

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<v Speaker 2>who's older you or your brother? I was older and

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<v Speaker 2>I was a monster. I would I would fight with

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<v Speaker 2>my brother and do terrible things. But yeah, no, I

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<v Speaker 2>was older.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, you must have been somewhat of a good

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<v Speaker 1>student if you got into Johns Hopkins.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but boy. I didn't get along with anybody, and

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize until I tried to go back and

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<v Speaker 2>teach at university. I was at McGill for thirteen years,

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<v Speaker 2>and I view those years largely as misdirected and maybe wasted.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, wait, just to be clear, your years at

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<v Speaker 1>Johns Hopkins or your year's teaching.

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<v Speaker 2>My years A year and a half at Johns Hopkins,

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<v Speaker 2>and I finally left Johns Hopkins. I quit Johns Hopkins

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<v Speaker 2>at about the same time that everybody else was smart

0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.200
<v Speaker 2>was quitting university, and I got a job at a

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<v Speaker 2>recording studio. Okay, But later at McGill, I found that

0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:46.120
<v Speaker 2>it was very difficult to reach kids. I wasn't there

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 2>to serve the kids. I was there to serve the

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 2>administrative layer at the university. And when I fought it,

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I was not welcomed. Okay, So when you were at McGill,

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.520
<v Speaker 2>why was it so hard to reach students. I wasn't

0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:18.480
<v Speaker 2>silenced early, but I assumed that I could change the agenda.

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.679
<v Speaker 2>And I came to McGill having just started doing video

0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 2>in the studio, because at that time I had already

0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:37.960
<v Speaker 2>demonstrated as well as I could that video directors. We

0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 2>were missing a lot, and so I wanted to do

0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 2>it on my own. So I bought some professional cameras

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 2>and started taking doing video and the recording studio. This

0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.920
<v Speaker 2>would be very quick, don't worry. Started doing video on

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:57.960
<v Speaker 2>the recording studio. My second engineers would double as videographers.

0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Would take one let's roll. They would put down their

0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.000
<v Speaker 2>clipboard and pick up a camera and shoot the session.

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 2>And I had a completely different experience with video, where

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:19.919
<v Speaker 2>I focused on the music and the performance and not

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:25.080
<v Speaker 2>what I came into it as a producer. Angry, an

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:30.959
<v Speaker 2>r person or whatever forces push a session over on

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.919
<v Speaker 2>its face. So I took that to mcgil where I

0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.600
<v Speaker 2>was trying to make clear that we had a tremendous

0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 2>resource at mcgillan's and Music. We had some extraordinary performance

0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 2>and we had recording facilities one of the pre eminent

0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:54.280
<v Speaker 2>recording programs in the world mcguil Sound Recording, and I

0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.600
<v Speaker 2>tried to put it together. We had a tremendous director

0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 2>of the opera, Patrick Hanson, and we had wonderful donors

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Joe and Ivory and gave me discretionary use of some

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.879
<v Speaker 2>funds and so I could buy enough video to do

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 2>pro video, and we changed video in Canada, I would

0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:30.200
<v Speaker 2>submit where you know, we would keep keep it as research.

0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Everything about about what I learned was about research, conducting

0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.880
<v Speaker 2>research and doing it poorly, I mean, not good at it.

0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:48.200
<v Speaker 2>But and I'm inconsistent and I'm lazy, But I did

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:53.879
<v Speaker 2>find that musicians were far better videographers far better. And

0:19:53.880 --> 0:20:00.399
<v Speaker 2>this is way before anything Instagram or TikTok or anything issues.

0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Make better videographers because they follow the music. They follow

0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the music, and as videographers on a live presentation, they're

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 2>irreplaceable because they know where the music is going, they

0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:21.199
<v Speaker 2>know where the action is going in opera, and this

0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:27.480
<v Speaker 2>is lost on the better part of the school and

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:35.080
<v Speaker 2>a professional context. You know, I was not very well accepted,

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.359
<v Speaker 2>and maybe it was my attitude. I still have a

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.560
<v Speaker 2>bad attitude.

0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, wait wait, bad attitude is the essence of

0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:56.199
<v Speaker 1>rock and roll. But I want to and ask just

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.680
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more, what was the problem with connecting

0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:01.760
<v Speaker 1>with the students.

0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.879
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, Well, this is going to be hard to admit,

0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not a nice person when things go wrong,

0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 2>and I'm aggressive and more likely to be angry and

0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.199
<v Speaker 2>accusatory and just awful and I hate me in the

0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:36.399
<v Speaker 2>recording studio, and if you ask any of my second engineers,

0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.359
<v Speaker 2>they would have to agree. And with students it worked

0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:46.919
<v Speaker 2>less well because they thought, they felt strongly and rightly

0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.360
<v Speaker 2>so that they were paying for an education. They were

0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:55.199
<v Speaker 2>looking for their education. Why why they were looking for

0:21:55.400 --> 0:22:01.120
<v Speaker 2>their idea what an education was or is? And what

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.720
<v Speaker 2>I needed is for students to pay attention and survey

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 2>your academics bomb and ask them what their biggest problem,

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the biggest problems were and are. And it's the challenge

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.280
<v Speaker 2>in my mind and my book is the challenge of

0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:22.440
<v Speaker 2>getting students to pay attention. That's extraordinarily difficult. And when

0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:26.440
<v Speaker 2>I could capture the attention of and this is this

0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 2>is a graduate level course. Sound recording is a master's degree,

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:38.400
<v Speaker 2>three year degree, which is when I could get somebody

0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:43.800
<v Speaker 2>on board with how to think about telling a story

0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 2>in video, because it's all about telling a story, same

0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:51.199
<v Speaker 2>thing as music. We're there to tell stories. And that

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 2>idea of coherence over time that first thing that an

0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:58.240
<v Speaker 2>AIA agent has to deliver. On that list I sent

0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:02.640
<v Speaker 2>you coherence of a story over time? How to get

0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:07.719
<v Speaker 2>a story to hang together? I turned a couple of

0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:14.440
<v Speaker 2>my graduates into the direction of being professionals, and they're

0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.320
<v Speaker 2>all working and they're making a fuck ton of money.

0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:21.200
<v Speaker 2>I think they are. But the ones I could reach

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.560
<v Speaker 2>I did extremely well with. So I was encouraged to

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:31.480
<v Speaker 2>think that this Jacqueline Hide demeanor would get a student's

0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.320
<v Speaker 2>attention and allow me to move it move. The conversation

0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 2>on that was just mean, Okay, if.

0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:45.840
<v Speaker 1>We've pulled back the lens, people from our generation all

0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:51.879
<v Speaker 1>figured it out for themselves with your experience, how do

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 1>you feel about music education on the road to creating

0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:02.040
<v Speaker 1>professional artists?

0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.040
<v Speaker 2>What a brilliant question and one that I should have

0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 2>been prepared for. We're still looking for brilliant artists, so

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 2>let's start at the end and work our way back.

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Our challenge these days and finding in discovering brilliant artists,

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.080
<v Speaker 2>And I mean there are not many of them, Prince.

0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:32.639
<v Speaker 2>There's he's one in ten million I haven't met, but

0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:39.000
<v Speaker 2>a small handful of true geniuses and pop music, by

0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:41.280
<v Speaker 2>the way, I know you watched the Billy Joel thing.

0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I was so impressed with Billy Joel, and I've did

0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:48.600
<v Speaker 2>a record with him and didn't see certain sides of

0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 2>him as far as writing went, and was very close

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.480
<v Speaker 2>to Phil Ramona, and I know what Phil brought to

0:24:54.520 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Billy Joel, and it wasn't always Billy Joel's idea. But

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:03.600
<v Speaker 2>to fill the point I was trying to make, or

0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 2>trying to lead into, is the idea that there's so

0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:12.199
<v Speaker 2>much noise out there, and the industry is smaller and

0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:15.399
<v Speaker 2>in competition with sports and with video games and with

0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.280
<v Speaker 2>God knows what that you're likely to draw off how

0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:24.840
<v Speaker 2>to find that brilliant person again, find that what on

0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 2>terms that I could I could relate to this, This person,

0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy well Web is a good example of somebody, ah

0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 2>who I am in awe. The way he puts moving

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:42.520
<v Speaker 2>tones together and by the way he puts music, he

0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:48.199
<v Speaker 2>puts lyrics together is idiosyncrasies. And there are men, there

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:50.199
<v Speaker 2>are many others that you and I have known that

0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:56.040
<v Speaker 2>we would have to call brilliant, but they're harder and

0:25:56.280 --> 0:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>harder to find. I did. I started a record Tammy Emmanuel,

0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 2>who is that kind of idiosyncratic, complete genius, independent way

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:16.119
<v Speaker 2>of expressing himself and God knows where it comes from,

0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:22.479
<v Speaker 2>but you know right away that this is a transcendent artist.

0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:28.720
<v Speaker 2>So that's the problem. And the other thing is nobody

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 2>picks me as a producer anymore. You know, I have

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:36.320
<v Speaker 2>this thing that I do where I'll do it once.

0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:40.159
<v Speaker 2>When I got out of Earth Wind and Fire many

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:46.040
<v Speaker 2>many years ago, I had a lot of offers and

0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 2>I did a couple of them and realized that they

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't want any innovation whatsoever. They just wanted me to

0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:56.040
<v Speaker 2>repeat what they thought were my ideas with earth Wind

0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and Fire. And I didn't do the heavy lifting with

0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:06.280
<v Speaker 2>her from the Fire, Marys wife did and I couldn't

0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.440
<v Speaker 2>fulfill that dream, so I stopped taking work. I still

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 2>won't answer the phone. But Tommy Emmanuel persisted, so I

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:14.919
<v Speaker 2>had to work with him. Also, he was brilliant, so

0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I had to work with him. Linda persisted. A lot

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 2>of these artists persisted, and that worked with him.

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, there was a great explosion of artists in the

0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:35.720
<v Speaker 1>sixties and seventies into the eighties. What you talked about

0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 1>the competition for interest sports and video games in the Internet.

0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:47.760
<v Speaker 1>But do you believe the what is the problem that

0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 1>we're not having artists? Is there not dedicating the time?

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:54.040
<v Speaker 1>We can't find it, we can't amplify it. What is

0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:58.399
<v Speaker 1>the real problem.

0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:06.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I don't know. Problem. Well, I think the challenge

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:13.159
<v Speaker 2>is allowing marginal people, is allowing a ryecoiter. For me,

0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>it was getting to know loll George and how he

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:23.199
<v Speaker 2>would craft a story, and how he suffered from music

0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 2>with this, with this incomprehensibly narrow view that he had

0:28:33.880 --> 0:28:39.400
<v Speaker 2>to change the world with the song. I've put it

0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>like that before. Nobody's argued with me. But that's the

0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:46.120
<v Speaker 2>why I saw old George and what he did to live.

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:53.480
<v Speaker 2>His music was idiosyncratic and independent, and people would pay.

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Bob you wrote some checks. People would pay for that

0:28:57.320 --> 0:29:02.360
<v Speaker 2>in the sixties and seventies, and then people tried to

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:04.920
<v Speaker 2>simplify it and gave it to accountants. With the turn

0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 2>of the nineties and the experience of having artists like

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Michael Jackson go for what did he go for forty

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:20.840
<v Speaker 2>points to Walter forty five points? You know, and the

0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 2>artists took control, they took their music back, and they

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:30.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't they couldn't do that formula anymore where one out

0:29:30.880 --> 0:29:34.640
<v Speaker 2>of twenty would fund the other nineteen. But you know,

0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Michael wouldn't allow that. And then Braca, you should interview

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:42.360
<v Speaker 2>John Braga Braco wouldn't allow that.

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know, Brinck, I've talked a little bit. That's

0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:48.560
<v Speaker 1>a good idea. Let's go back to Lowell. George, tell

0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:50.880
<v Speaker 1>me about him suffering for the music.

0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, first, it's well known that he overindulged, and that

0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:03.040
<v Speaker 2>was not his about his friend. I mean when we

0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:06.200
<v Speaker 2>did the rate you've heard about the Rainbow sessions that

0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:11.120
<v Speaker 2>we did that turned into Waiting for Columbus, which it

0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:13.480
<v Speaker 2>turned out to be a great record, and everybody had

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 2>a hand in it. Who I want to say mattered,

0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:29.080
<v Speaker 2>but he his his his wife Liz, had to sequester

0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:33.240
<v Speaker 2>his funds so they wouldn't buy a lot of really

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:39.840
<v Speaker 2>nasty drugs. So before the Wednesday night show at the Rainbow,

0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:46.160
<v Speaker 2>you could see loll in the lobby with an armful

0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 2>of T shirts selling T shirts for half price so

0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:53.080
<v Speaker 2>he could make enough money to buy blow. And And

0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:59.000
<v Speaker 2>that was the story of the the downfall of the

0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 2>production of the Rainbow.

0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:01.560
<v Speaker 1>That was Lowell.

0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:04.320
<v Speaker 2>That had to do with Lowell's imagination and what he

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:06.640
<v Speaker 2>could get away with, what he should get away with,

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:10.520
<v Speaker 2>what he shouldn't get away with. But he told a

0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 2>great story and he lived, He lived his he lived

0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:21.520
<v Speaker 2>at the edges of his imagination. He's a great, great

0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 2>recond and a fisherman, loved to fish. He and jenneddiad

0:31:29.040 --> 0:31:33.840
<v Speaker 2>bonded over fishing. So I don't know where I started

0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:35.440
<v Speaker 2>that answer, I help, it didn't get to.

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how did you meet Lowell? George?

0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's a good story to it. The artist of

0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:47.040
<v Speaker 2>my life was began as Emulou Harris, and I was

0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 2>a small recording studio in Hunt Valley, Maryland early on,

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:54.520
<v Speaker 2>and word got to Washington, d C. Where Tom and

0:31:54.760 --> 0:31:59.719
<v Speaker 2>Emmy Lou lived, and she was doing her thing, playing

0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:05.080
<v Speaker 2>her songs out of the folk scare of the late sixties,

0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:08.600
<v Speaker 2>and I got to know, I mean, I did a

0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:17.560
<v Speaker 2>couple tunes for her, and shortly thereafter she heard from

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 2>her friend Lindron said that Lindron said was sick and

0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:24.360
<v Speaker 2>she was going to come to do this record with

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:28.360
<v Speaker 2>John Starling, the leader of the Seldom scene. You probably

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:32.600
<v Speaker 2>never heard that name, but he had the great bluegrass

0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:35.600
<v Speaker 2>and I come out of bluegrass. Bluegress in classical music

0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 2>and the bluegrass were a lot of these early bluegrass artists.

0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Live to two track, where I really learned how to

0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:50.760
<v Speaker 2>mix live to two track for Rebel Records, Country Gentlemen,

0:32:51.520 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 2>the Osborne's Seldom Scene and and John Starling was no

0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:05.120
<v Speaker 2>was throat doctor. And when Linda fell ill on the road,

0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:10.000
<v Speaker 2>she went to stay with she. She canceled her gigs

0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:13.160
<v Speaker 2>and this is seventy four. Canceled her gigs and went

0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:16.720
<v Speaker 2>to live with John Starling and his wife, Issue Starling,

0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:25.000
<v Speaker 2>also wonderful singer. And during that time We'll quit Little Feet,

0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:31.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm out, fuck you guys, and was hanging out with

0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Linda and so Lowell on this hiatus from Little Feet,

0:33:38.560 --> 0:33:46.760
<v Speaker 2>wanted to get a song with Mike Aldridge, the dobo player,

0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:51.720
<v Speaker 2>and he had this wacky tune called Everybody Slide is

0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 2>all about slide guitar. And just hung out and that's

0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:58.600
<v Speaker 2>how I met Old George and we got to be friends.

0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:01.880
<v Speaker 2>He was impressed that, rather then yelling at people to

0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:03.720
<v Speaker 2>be quiet in the control, that I put on a

0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:09.680
<v Speaker 2>pair of headphones and carried on. Nothing stopped me. And

0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:15.600
<v Speaker 2>had proposed that we worked together, and we did a lot.

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back a little bit, fill in some detail.

0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:21.640
<v Speaker 1>So what kind of kid were you. Were you like

0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:24.239
<v Speaker 1>a member of the group playing sports? Were you a

0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:28.280
<v Speaker 1>kid in your room reading and tinkering and book.

0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:32.560
<v Speaker 2>Kind loath sports, and when I found out how to

0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:40.840
<v Speaker 2>make gunpowder, I was making explosives and homemade rockets that

0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:45.319
<v Speaker 2>didn't really produce anything, but didn't kill me either. Now

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 2>I fiddled around with electronics. So my earliest experience was

0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:54.960
<v Speaker 2>who was I was just talking to somebody about this

0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:59.480
<v Speaker 2>is early on as a kid, I was talking to

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy Douglas. And if you have an interview Jimmy, you

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:07.520
<v Speaker 2>gotta know he's one of the greats. Jimmy Douglas and

0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>I are doing a podcast, and I'm and I tell

0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:14.640
<v Speaker 2>this story, and he said, wait a second, that happened

0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:16.880
<v Speaker 2>to me too, And as a three year old. As

0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:20.080
<v Speaker 2>a four year old, he was wondering how light bulbs work.

0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 2>So each of us had the same experience where we

0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:26.200
<v Speaker 2>unscrewed the light bulb and stuck our finger in the

0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:31.719
<v Speaker 2>socket and got blown down, blown on our backs, but

0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:39.080
<v Speaker 2>experienced the universe. I don't know how to make it

0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:44.279
<v Speaker 2>more trivial sounding, but we learned a lot about electricity.

0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:47.560
<v Speaker 2>So I was always impressed with this great power that

0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:53.200
<v Speaker 2>electricity had. It. When I got my first piece of

0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:58.680
<v Speaker 2>shit tape recorder, it was five years old, and it

0:35:58.920 --> 0:35:59.399
<v Speaker 2>was just.

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:03.920
<v Speaker 1>We just slow down a little bit. You're five years old.

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:08.160
<v Speaker 1>It's the early fifties. This is long before the compact

0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:11.799
<v Speaker 1>is set. What kind of cape recorder you get? And

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:15.520
<v Speaker 1>why do your appearance buy it for you? Well, it

0:36:15.600 --> 0:36:17.200
<v Speaker 1>was a piece of shit. It was one of those

0:36:17.239 --> 0:36:22.040
<v Speaker 1>thirty dollars recorders that had friction drive all the take

0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:26.879
<v Speaker 1>up takes. But before then, I was fixing radios when

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:27.960
<v Speaker 1>I was five or six year old.

0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 2>One of the.

0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:37.120
<v Speaker 1>First plait you're five or sixey, I got a soldering.

0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Where does all this team I fix anything? Wait a second,

0:36:42.400 --> 0:36:45.399
<v Speaker 2>I didn't fix anything. I just poked around and took

0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:50.279
<v Speaker 2>things apart, and would generally lose all the screws and

0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:53.400
<v Speaker 2>just poke around or replace the batteries, or there's a

0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:56.880
<v Speaker 2>loose wire and I'd solder a wire. And I didn't

0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:01.520
<v Speaker 2>do anything that was valued. But I had a soldering

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 2>iron and by golly, and put it put it to work.

0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:13.439
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, do you get the tape recorder? I got

0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:15.080
<v Speaker 2>a tape recorder and it was a piece of shit.

0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:19.400
<v Speaker 2>It's horror. I mean I was already doing sound in

0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Baptist Church and I was away from my follower and

0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:27.000
<v Speaker 2>moved up to Baltimore. I was at a church and

0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:28.720
<v Speaker 2>they lost their sound engineer.

0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 1>In the.

0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Baptist church would do a radio broadcast and I would

0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:41.360
<v Speaker 2>sit back by the mixer, off the main secretary and

0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:45.920
<v Speaker 2>just run, run, level, run the radio broadcasts. It got

0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:50.080
<v Speaker 2>me out of going to church, which I have never

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:57.120
<v Speaker 2>really felt very good about except for the music. I

0:37:57.280 --> 0:38:02.280
<v Speaker 2>love Catholicism for the music. You love Judaism for the justice.

0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:08.440
<v Speaker 2>I tried to convert and it was too hard. But

0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:13.560
<v Speaker 2>but early on I would anything that touched sound I

0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:16.160
<v Speaker 2>thought was a miracle. And that's where I wanted to

0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:21.440
<v Speaker 2>quote enturity, because his, his, his, his, his, His line

0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:25.719
<v Speaker 2>was the music must be a miracle to be able

0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:30.719
<v Speaker 2>to put that feeling through a wire. And that resonates

0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:36.399
<v Speaker 2>me still with me still, Okay, I was. I wasn't

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:38.160
<v Speaker 2>good at anything. Wait a second, I don't want to

0:38:38.160 --> 0:38:41.960
<v Speaker 2>claim to be good at anything. I didn't. I mean

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.640
<v Speaker 2>only occasionally when I fixed something and it was by accident.

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.520
<v Speaker 1>But were you the type of kid who had heath Kids,

0:38:48.560 --> 0:38:49.080
<v Speaker 1>et cetera.

0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:52.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh I did. I had one of the early heath

0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:58.800
<v Speaker 2>Kid catalog computers, but also as early as high school

0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:01.879
<v Speaker 2>when we're talking about over thirteen. I would be on

0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the stage crew, and mostly it was an excuse to

0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:12.080
<v Speaker 2>sneak backstage and smoke, which my mother discovered one day

0:39:12.080 --> 0:39:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I was cutting French class and she happened to look

0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:19.040
<v Speaker 2>in the auditorium where at my feed up on the

0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:26.880
<v Speaker 2>balcony railing of smoking ball boy. That ended that. So

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:30.880
<v Speaker 2>I would I would do early stage crew, an early

0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:33.480
<v Speaker 2>audio crew, and mixing.

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you're involved with this, you know, stage crew stuff.

0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Are you listening to music?

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:55.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah, listening to classical music, mostly classical music. One

0:39:55.760 --> 0:40:00.520
<v Speaker 2>of the earliest experiences was my mother and she had

0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:05.520
<v Speaker 2>a subscription to a seventy eight music service and a

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.200
<v Speaker 2>thirty three to third music service, and I would wear

0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:15.040
<v Speaker 2>records out. Earliest experience as we're listening to classical music

0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:20.000
<v Speaker 2>on on shellac.

0:40:21.080 --> 0:40:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how about Elvis and what came after Elvis? Was

0:40:24.440 --> 0:40:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that something they interested you? The first forty five not

0:40:29.040 --> 0:40:33.640
<v Speaker 1>at all. The first forty five I bought was Del Shannon. No,

0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:39.480
<v Speaker 1>it was a ballad of New Orleans. Ballad of Ballad

0:40:39.520 --> 0:40:46.480
<v Speaker 1>of New Orleans. Yeah, now I've forty five. But mostly

0:40:46.560 --> 0:40:51.400
<v Speaker 1>I listened to radio pop radio and R and B.

0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:55.400
<v Speaker 1>Baltimore had the greatest jocks in the world. They had

0:40:55.400 --> 0:40:58.719
<v Speaker 1>a guy named Fat Daddy Paul Johnson, I think it

0:40:58.760 --> 0:41:00.920
<v Speaker 1>was his real name, and you would have heard of

0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:03.360
<v Speaker 1>this guy who was the hot DJ W W I N.

0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:07.600
<v Speaker 1>And I remember coming home from when I was still

0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:09.600
<v Speaker 1>in college, and this is a good story and so

0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:12.479
<v Speaker 1>but I'll make it quick, coming home from the late

0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:17.800
<v Speaker 1>night card game at AEPI API. Mostly we smoked pot

0:41:17.880 --> 0:41:21.840
<v Speaker 1>and played cards, but I remember an all night poker

0:41:21.920 --> 0:41:24.320
<v Speaker 1>session and I wasn't particularly good at poker, but I

0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:27.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't lose too much either. But I remember coming home

0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:34.280
<v Speaker 1>at six point thirty in the morning, driving home and

0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Paul Johnson was playing Stay with Me Baby Lorraine Ellison

0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:44.480
<v Speaker 1>and played it over and over and over again, five

0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 1>six times in a row, and every time just raved

0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:52.040
<v Speaker 1>about what a great record. But it really struck me

0:41:53.080 --> 0:42:02.400
<v Speaker 1>as how to connect how to connect that kind of

0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:06.040
<v Speaker 1>performance with radio, because I know you remember the song.

0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:10.239
<v Speaker 1>Everybody remembers the song, and everybody tried to do it.

0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Linda tried to do it, and nobody could quite do

0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Lauren Nellison. And by the way, that's a whole interesting

0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:21.680
<v Speaker 1>story because that was a Phil Remont record where Frank

0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:25.279
<v Speaker 1>had the studio booked. It was an early an R

0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:31.719
<v Speaker 1>on forty eighth R recording and an ar got the

0:42:31.760 --> 0:42:38.440
<v Speaker 1>call to do this session for Frank Sinatra, and so

0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:43.640
<v Speaker 1>they booked an orchestra a band because it was all

0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:46.399
<v Speaker 1>about room. And the day before.

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Frank canceled, and he canceled with the now famous line

0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:58.440
<v Speaker 2>not today baby. And Phil gets the call. I've written

0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:00.680
<v Speaker 2>this up if you want to read it. Phil gets

0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:06.120
<v Speaker 2>the call, calls Jerry Ragvoy. You know it, says Jerry. Jerry,

0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:10.680
<v Speaker 2>I've got the studio courtesy Frank for an afternoon. Can

0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 2>we put an act together? Do you have an act?

0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:16.920
<v Speaker 2>And Phil and Jerry put together the Lauren Allison record

0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:22.360
<v Speaker 2>off the cuff. They say some charts were written. I

0:43:22.360 --> 0:43:24.000
<v Speaker 2>don't believe it. I think it was all head off,

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:28.120
<v Speaker 2>off the off the floor. But that's one of the

0:43:28.120 --> 0:43:30.640
<v Speaker 2>great stories of Lorraine Allison was in the right place

0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:33.680
<v Speaker 2>at the right time and knew the right people, and

0:43:33.800 --> 0:43:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Frank was going where Paul Springs to get married. How's

0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:43.680
<v Speaker 2>that for a story that one I haven't heard?

0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:48.560
<v Speaker 1>So where were you when the Beatles broke? And what

0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:49.520
<v Speaker 1>do you think about that?

0:43:50.480 --> 0:43:52.680
<v Speaker 2>I didn't like the Beatles. I mean I watched it,

0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:56.440
<v Speaker 2>watch the two early in Sullivan shows and recorded them.

0:43:56.440 --> 0:43:59.920
<v Speaker 2>I had a better tape recorder by then and recorded,

0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:03.399
<v Speaker 2>but I didn't didn't understand it in terms of what

0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:07.080
<v Speaker 2>they were doing with my favorite tunes, you know, the

0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:13.120
<v Speaker 2>he they did, like Twist and Shout and Isley's and

0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:19.960
<v Speaker 2>they did some a lot of a lot of covers,

0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:24.040
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't. I didn't get to really appreciate the

0:44:24.080 --> 0:44:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Beatles until until Sergeant Pepper and what they did with

0:44:31.200 --> 0:44:32.879
<v Speaker 2>that record, and then I got to work with him

0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:36.200
<v Speaker 2>and we did a Boy. One of the records we

0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:39.480
<v Speaker 2>did was got to Get You Into My Life. And

0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I had known George pretty well by then because I

0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:49.319
<v Speaker 2>had built his automation system for uh their at the

0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Oxford Circus, and he had sued Neve. He among others,

0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:56.520
<v Speaker 2>had sued Neve form ninety six, and so I was

0:44:56.560 --> 0:45:02.000
<v Speaker 2>famous in the business for having got up in these face.

0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:07.000
<v Speaker 2>But I don't think I gave him what he wanted

0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:09.239
<v Speaker 2>on that record that he was with the Beg's and

0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Peter Frampton, which was the first record I knew of

0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 2>to return platinum. Yeah, and you know the record it

0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:19.920
<v Speaker 2>was not a good record, but it was a copy

0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:26.080
<v Speaker 2>or an emulation of a pooky Valentine to the Beatles,

0:45:26.120 --> 0:45:29.360
<v Speaker 2>where they just kind of copied Beatles arrangements and copied

0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:32.560
<v Speaker 2>the Beatles sounds. And we did, we did got to

0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:35.879
<v Speaker 2>get You into My life and from scratch arrangement, and

0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:39.560
<v Speaker 2>we did it. I remember playing it for George, who

0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:42.719
<v Speaker 2>immediately took it to Paul, and Paul listened to it

0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:48.080
<v Speaker 2>over and over and over again for a whole Sunday,

0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:54.040
<v Speaker 2>just listening to Maurice's vocals and the arrangement. And now

0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:57.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm way off track, But the but the I didn't

0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:01.880
<v Speaker 2>really like the Beatles until until George and realizing how

0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:05.640
<v Speaker 2>much influence Georgie had, and for a while that was

0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:09.080
<v Speaker 2>who I wanted to be. See. I think the notifications

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:11.720
<v Speaker 2>are a gift from God. Every time I say something

0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I could really state as a fact, it goes off.

0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, not the middle of the screen.

0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yes, stay center, stay centered in the screen. But

0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:25.759
<v Speaker 1>as we're sitting here and you're getting phone calls and notifications,

0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:29.719
<v Speaker 1>A are people looking for you all day long? And

0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:32.360
<v Speaker 1>bybe you like that or do you find it interrupts

0:46:32.440 --> 0:46:33.000
<v Speaker 1>your work?

0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:38.640
<v Speaker 2>It very much interrupts my work, and so when and

0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:41.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why I let it go like this,

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:46.800
<v Speaker 2>because when I used to mix extensively in this room,

0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:49.200
<v Speaker 2>I would figure out a way to make sure the

0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 2>phones were turned off in other rooms and cookie doing

0:46:52.040 --> 0:46:57.040
<v Speaker 2>what was happening my wife, And I don't know why

0:46:57.080 --> 0:47:02.240
<v Speaker 2>did I not do that? I'm terribly sorry.

0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Guys just drilled down on something. You said you built

0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:12.920
<v Speaker 1>an automation system for George. Are you talking about something

0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.399
<v Speaker 1>like the board flying fingers that type of thing.

0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's flag faders and that was pretty much lifted.

0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:24.799
<v Speaker 2>But that was a guy named Joe Martinson who saw

0:47:24.840 --> 0:47:28.560
<v Speaker 2>the success I had with gm A automation and we

0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:33.359
<v Speaker 2>were the first system that actually worked. Ask anybody, and

0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:37.000
<v Speaker 2>especially when he came out he six failed and me

0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:43.680
<v Speaker 2>was sued. Mark Crabtree was sued and developed the Red

0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Hot Hatred for me. That was unequal in my life.

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:54.360
<v Speaker 2>And one thing he did was to offer me, however

0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:57.640
<v Speaker 2>much money to buy my company, and then when I

0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:02.440
<v Speaker 2>would sell it, he collected enough money from Joe Martinson

0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:06.520
<v Speaker 2>to just copy my system, and that fun A little bastard.

0:48:06.600 --> 0:48:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Joe Martinson tried to patent one of a broad array

0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:13.960
<v Speaker 2>of ideas. Because we were building from scratch. We hated

0:48:14.000 --> 0:48:17.000
<v Speaker 2>DeCamp ninety six, so we built the fader from scratch,

0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:21.400
<v Speaker 2>built the hard disk processing from scratch. I programmed a

0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Unix like automation system from scratch so that whenever you

0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:29.560
<v Speaker 2>rolled tape, the system would locke into where you were, which,

0:48:30.239 --> 0:48:35.200
<v Speaker 2>among other ideas, turned into ideas that stuck. And I

0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:37.439
<v Speaker 2>didn't patent that. It was like the equalizer. I didn't

0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:40.440
<v Speaker 2>patent the parametric I didn't know it was worth patenting.

0:48:40.920 --> 0:48:44.600
<v Speaker 2>I should have. And then rained Olemy came along and

0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:51.080
<v Speaker 2>copied parts of it, and that was another story, another nightmare.

0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:55.239
<v Speaker 2>So all of these, I think at some point you're

0:48:55.239 --> 0:48:57.560
<v Speaker 2>going to say, this guy is so full of shit.

0:48:58.000 --> 0:49:00.920
<v Speaker 2>So I did bring my paper on autom and so

0:49:01.000 --> 0:49:04.040
<v Speaker 2>I can show you that. I could show you the

0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:07.239
<v Speaker 2>parametric equalizer paper that I delivered at seventy two.

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back before this, Okay, let's start with a

0:49:10.480 --> 0:49:14.280
<v Speaker 1>parametric equalizer. How did you come up with the idea

0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:14.719
<v Speaker 1>for that?

0:49:16.200 --> 0:49:17.640
<v Speaker 2>A group of us came up with the guy I

0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:21.400
<v Speaker 2>was working with, a guy named Burgess McNeil. I eventually

0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:24.399
<v Speaker 2>started a company with had an idea and I had

0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:26.160
<v Speaker 2>an idea and a friend of mine that had gone

0:49:26.200 --> 0:49:30.520
<v Speaker 2>to Princeton, Bob Beushaw eventually worked for NSA had an

0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:32.399
<v Speaker 2>idea and I put them together. But there was one

0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:36.359
<v Speaker 2>thing missing and I had to make that work. It

0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:39.560
<v Speaker 2>was the queue control or the width of a peak,

0:49:40.440 --> 0:49:45.000
<v Speaker 2>and I figured it out and it took a lot

0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:48.960
<v Speaker 2>of work, but that's what made the parametric equalizer unique

0:49:48.960 --> 0:49:54.920
<v Speaker 2>and would have made it patentable. And it just came up.

0:49:54.480 --> 0:49:56.520
<v Speaker 2>I came. I was recording music at that time I

0:49:56.560 --> 0:49:59.280
<v Speaker 2>had done. I was running a directed two track studio.

0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:02.040
<v Speaker 2>What did I do that you would have heard it?

0:50:02.200 --> 0:50:07.319
<v Speaker 2>I did the demo for arthur' connelly that he took

0:50:07.360 --> 0:50:12.040
<v Speaker 2>to Memphis and Steve and he wrote sweet soul music.

0:50:12.920 --> 0:50:15.759
<v Speaker 2>But the demo that he went with where you lead me,

0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:17.759
<v Speaker 2>I will follow. So that's the record we sold to

0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:20.560
<v Speaker 2>Stacks and I did that in Baltimore, directed to track

0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:24.719
<v Speaker 2>and so I was doing music when I wasn't doing commercials,

0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:27.840
<v Speaker 2>and that was my recording studio experience. When I dropped

0:50:27.840 --> 0:50:31.239
<v Speaker 2>out of Hobbins, I got a job doing commercials for

0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Lean Shapeer, Golding Bank and car commercials, package commercials and

0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:41.400
<v Speaker 2>learned how to how to work in the studio, but

0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:44.400
<v Speaker 2>a lot of it. We invented the mixer. It was

0:50:44.440 --> 0:50:52.759
<v Speaker 2>a two mixer that sounded great. Listened to Philadelphia records,

0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:58.680
<v Speaker 2>listened to New York records. Early all the pop records

0:50:58.719 --> 0:51:04.719
<v Speaker 2>were bell sad and a handful of studios. Later, an

0:51:04.880 --> 0:51:09.360
<v Speaker 2>R much later, An R And figured all these records

0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:12.840
<v Speaker 2>sound great because there's some piece of equipment that I'm missing.

0:51:12.880 --> 0:51:16.520
<v Speaker 2>And so I built all this stuff. And it wasn't

0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:20.880
<v Speaker 2>the equipment. It was the musicians and the arrangements and

0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:25.200
<v Speaker 2>the writing, the songwriting. So I learned a lesson there.

0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:30.080
<v Speaker 2>But there was a studio called it I Studios, Recordings

0:51:30.120 --> 0:51:33.759
<v Speaker 2>in corporate and then it TI. So I'm really jumping around.

0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:41.239
<v Speaker 2>So this must be very hard. Stop making excuses. You

0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:45.239
<v Speaker 2>come up with the idea of the Pyrami metric equalizer

0:51:45.320 --> 0:51:48.840
<v Speaker 2>with these other guys. Did you then have it manufactured?

0:51:50.280 --> 0:51:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, I did it.

0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:51.839
<v Speaker 1>I did.

0:51:52.239 --> 0:51:56.840
<v Speaker 2>I did all the design except for one piece of it.

0:51:56.920 --> 0:52:03.680
<v Speaker 2>The mechanical design was done by another team. The company

0:52:03.680 --> 0:52:07.040
<v Speaker 2>that we went with, which was a video manufacturing They

0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:12.839
<v Speaker 2>manufactured video tunes for early merchery missions. And they had

0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:15.080
<v Speaker 2>a team and they were out of market, and so

0:52:15.320 --> 0:52:19.360
<v Speaker 2>they bought a recording studio and that was my recording studio.

0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:21.279
<v Speaker 2>It turned it too it TI so you see it.

0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:25.120
<v Speaker 2>I in early parmetric eq so that was that was

0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:28.760
<v Speaker 2>my equ and I did it. I did the hard

0:52:30.160 --> 0:52:36.040
<v Speaker 2>the almost impossible to realize how to vary the queue

0:52:36.080 --> 0:52:37.040
<v Speaker 2>with a Vernier.

0:52:36.840 --> 0:52:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Nob but I know that.

0:52:39.040 --> 0:52:41.239
<v Speaker 2>We went to the guy that wrote the audio op

0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:48.920
<v Speaker 2>and cookbook, TODG Shung Tomjong, who worked at Aircraft Armaments

0:52:48.960 --> 0:52:51.040
<v Speaker 2>around the corner, and he looked at it and said,

0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:54.320
<v Speaker 2>this is impossible. To do something else and I stuck

0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:57.719
<v Speaker 2>to it and did it. So I did. I did.

0:52:57.840 --> 0:53:01.200
<v Speaker 2>I generally am the one to stay up around the

0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:05.279
<v Speaker 2>clock and figure out software, figure out design, and I

0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:06.120
<v Speaker 2>just enjoy it.

0:53:06.239 --> 0:53:09.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how did you decide ultimately to get into the

0:53:09.920 --> 0:53:11.520
<v Speaker 1>hardware business.

0:53:13.320 --> 0:53:17.479
<v Speaker 2>There was a piece missing, same thing as as now

0:53:17.719 --> 0:53:20.520
<v Speaker 2>is something doesn't work, or there was a piece missing

0:53:21.520 --> 0:53:25.000
<v Speaker 2>something doesn't In the case of an equalizer, it was

0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:27.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the studio with a graphic, a seven band graphics,

0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:32.600
<v Speaker 2>seven thirty one seven band graphic, and it's well, you know,

0:53:32.600 --> 0:53:36.960
<v Speaker 2>the figures are sixty two one twenty five two fifty

0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:40.560
<v Speaker 2>something something something. None of them were sharp enough to

0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:44.560
<v Speaker 2>cancel a residence in a snare drum or an acoustic

0:53:44.600 --> 0:53:47.960
<v Speaker 2>guitar or taken note excuse me, take a note out

0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:51.640
<v Speaker 2>of a piano. So that was the gig is. I've

0:53:51.640 --> 0:53:53.880
<v Speaker 2>got to build my own equalizer because we didn't have

0:53:53.920 --> 0:53:57.520
<v Speaker 2>any money. We couldn't afford anything. And I built my

0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:03.840
<v Speaker 2>own four track just because I needed one. But I

0:54:03.880 --> 0:54:09.279
<v Speaker 2>didn't learn it from anybody. Got to work.

0:54:10.800 --> 0:54:13.600
<v Speaker 1>What's your viewpoint on analog versus digital?

0:54:16.239 --> 0:54:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Now, it's funny. It's funny that you should mention because

0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I still have a very strong viewpoint on how to

0:54:24.680 --> 0:54:28.319
<v Speaker 2>improve digital, and it has a lot to do with

0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:32.359
<v Speaker 2>how good analog is. And I didn't bring up any

0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:38.120
<v Speaker 2>of my examples, but I can show you some work

0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:43.800
<v Speaker 2>I did on well more of the compressive of the

0:54:43.880 --> 0:54:48.560
<v Speaker 2>DRC which I have. I think it's the best dynamic

0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:53.080
<v Speaker 2>range controller ever made, very slow to teach people how

0:54:53.080 --> 0:54:55.399
<v Speaker 2>to use it because it doesn't do that crunchy thing,

0:54:56.120 --> 0:54:58.640
<v Speaker 2>and that's what people think a limitter does. Any rate

0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:02.120
<v Speaker 2>back to an equ so the EQ was going back

0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:05.280
<v Speaker 2>to the RCA Radio handbook and picking out a circuit

0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:10.359
<v Speaker 2>called a te filter two resisters two capacitors, and all

0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:13.000
<v Speaker 2>depending on how far apart the pastors are spread, you

0:55:13.040 --> 0:55:16.520
<v Speaker 2>can make a sharp notch or a broad notch or

0:55:18.520 --> 0:55:21.520
<v Speaker 2>broad them to a very wide range and move the

0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:24.080
<v Speaker 2>game up and down on the notch and you have

0:55:24.360 --> 0:55:27.719
<v Speaker 2>variable Q. Well, nobody had tried that before, and that

0:55:27.960 --> 0:55:31.279
<v Speaker 2>was where I got into trouble at Hopkins, because I

0:55:31.360 --> 0:55:34.480
<v Speaker 2>wanted to learn something in my first year systems course

0:55:34.600 --> 0:55:43.560
<v Speaker 2>and the professor was, ah, was what I hear lately?

0:55:46.280 --> 0:55:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Real warfare? Stupid? I mean, these the assistant professors were

0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:55.520
<v Speaker 2>just fucking idiots, and I just had to get out

0:55:55.520 --> 0:55:58.600
<v Speaker 2>of there. But I knew what I had already done,

0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:00.799
<v Speaker 2>and he said, well, that's a possible and I use

0:56:00.840 --> 0:56:04.640
<v Speaker 2>a circuit variation called a gyrator to turn a cheap

0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:11.040
<v Speaker 2>capacitor into an adductor. It trans transforms is not the

0:56:11.120 --> 0:56:17.839
<v Speaker 2>right word transforms. Reactants turned a deductor, which is why

0:56:17.880 --> 0:56:20.040
<v Speaker 2>are around the back accord into a capacitor, which is

0:56:20.080 --> 0:56:23.200
<v Speaker 2>two plates. He said, well, you can't do that, that's

0:56:23.239 --> 0:56:26.520
<v Speaker 2>only a theoretical abstraction. Well, I've got one, and you're

0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:30.480
<v Speaker 2>an idiot, so that wasn't very good. I didn't say

0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:36.080
<v Speaker 2>you're an idiot under my breath. But all this stuff

0:56:36.120 --> 0:56:38.960
<v Speaker 2>is there, Bob. You know everything that you see smart

0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:44.799
<v Speaker 2>designs in plugins, it's all there. Apple and these other

0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:47.960
<v Speaker 2>companies put it out there, put the tools out there

0:56:47.960 --> 0:56:52.320
<v Speaker 2>for free, and you had to do something with it.

0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:57.000
<v Speaker 2>So we built plugins. It's changed a lot, business has

0:56:57.080 --> 0:56:57.760
<v Speaker 2>changed a lot.

0:56:58.520 --> 0:57:00.760
<v Speaker 1>But let's go back. You had a few point ana

0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:02.400
<v Speaker 1>line versus digital.

0:57:03.920 --> 0:57:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, and here's the key thing about music, and I

0:57:06.520 --> 0:57:09.600
<v Speaker 2>knew I would have to circle around the music, is

0:57:09.640 --> 0:57:13.000
<v Speaker 2>that all our recording sounded not only better, much better,

0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:16.440
<v Speaker 2>much better. The first digital machine I heard was Tom

0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Stockin's Honeywell data recorder with a really awful front end,

0:57:23.240 --> 0:57:27.280
<v Speaker 2>and I remember playing something back for Jeff Bercaro and

0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:31.160
<v Speaker 2>at Sunset Tom Stockher was trying to make a business

0:57:31.160 --> 0:57:34.400
<v Speaker 2>out of digital and there's a story before that, but

0:57:34.520 --> 0:57:37.800
<v Speaker 2>at any rate, we Jeff would walk into the control

0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:43.120
<v Speaker 2>and say, hey, man, where's the high hat And we

0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:45.440
<v Speaker 2>had to say, well, it doesn't go up that high yet, Jeff,

0:57:46.040 --> 0:57:48.880
<v Speaker 2>because it didn't. It had a fifty k badwidth sampling

0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:52.480
<v Speaker 2>and high hat didn't sound like I had and it

0:57:52.560 --> 0:57:57.080
<v Speaker 2>was sixteen bit, so all of that digital direction that

0:57:57.160 --> 0:58:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I took was in response to hearing something that sounded

0:58:04.640 --> 0:58:13.280
<v Speaker 2>awful emas awful awful fiddles didn't sound like fiddles. And

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:17.280
<v Speaker 2>I had just come out of real musicians playing on

0:58:17.440 --> 0:58:21.640
<v Speaker 2>great microphones to an Ampex three hundred through a console

0:58:21.680 --> 0:58:26.240
<v Speaker 2>that we built tube console using high trans conductance twelve

0:58:26.280 --> 0:58:29.320
<v Speaker 2>A y sevens. It's pureless K two forty one D

0:58:29.400 --> 0:58:31.960
<v Speaker 2>had put transfer. Its amazing And I remember this shit

0:58:33.480 --> 0:58:38.200
<v Speaker 2>and it was immersive and small eye immersive, and I'm

0:58:38.240 --> 0:58:41.360
<v Speaker 2>getting chills still remembering going out and doing remotes at

0:58:41.360 --> 0:58:44.560
<v Speaker 2>the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, where I'd take out a couple

0:58:44.600 --> 0:58:49.600
<v Speaker 2>of mics and do a feed, an FM feed to WBL,

0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:53.280
<v Speaker 2>the FM station in town, and nobody listened. So I

0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:56.520
<v Speaker 2>could do anything. I could put the microphones anywhere I wanted,

0:58:57.480 --> 0:59:00.520
<v Speaker 2>and the experimenting with an orchestra, I'd never lost that

0:59:00.640 --> 0:59:02.800
<v Speaker 2>lust of experimenting with dorks room.

0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:08.320
<v Speaker 1>So okay, the original sixteen bit digital was bad, but

0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:10.320
<v Speaker 1>digital was improved after that.

0:59:11.600 --> 0:59:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, no, no, no, it wasn't sixteen bit. That's

0:59:14.200 --> 0:59:18.600
<v Speaker 2>the key. The early Sony machines were, if you're lucky,

0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:22.880
<v Speaker 2>twelve or thirteen bit monotonic. The digital goes like this

0:59:23.240 --> 0:59:26.760
<v Speaker 2>up and a step. Well, early non monotonicity was what.

0:59:26.880 --> 0:59:28.680
<v Speaker 2>It goes up, it goes way down that it goes

0:59:28.760 --> 0:59:31.440
<v Speaker 2>up and then goes way down. It's not monotonic. So

0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:36.280
<v Speaker 2>you're lucky if you get twelve bit accuracy out of it.

0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:38.440
<v Speaker 2>So I knew right away that they were all fucked,

0:59:39.160 --> 0:59:44.320
<v Speaker 2>and unfortunately I would have to tell them and made

0:59:44.960 --> 0:59:49.560
<v Speaker 2>friends of the Ajax men of science who thought they

0:59:49.600 --> 0:59:54.560
<v Speaker 2>knew everything and they didn't and couldn't because they were

0:59:54.560 --> 0:59:59.840
<v Speaker 2>blocked blocked in they're thinking. So I got a better

1:00:00.160 --> 1:00:06.560
<v Speaker 2>converter from Renee at DBX had done a different kind

1:00:06.600 --> 1:00:08.680
<v Speaker 2>of converter, and I bought blocks from what we made

1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:11.360
<v Speaker 2>our on converter. It started to sound better. But that's

1:00:11.440 --> 1:00:14.240
<v Speaker 2>all I ever hoped for is if you can work better.

1:00:14.320 --> 1:00:19.280
<v Speaker 2>I have a direction, that's what hey round up the posse.

1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:21.440
<v Speaker 2>That's where we're going. I know the direction now it's

1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:24.280
<v Speaker 2>not there yet, but I know where we've got to

1:00:24.320 --> 1:00:28.080
<v Speaker 2>go with it. And so I'm working with Serus Semiconductor

1:00:28.560 --> 1:00:33.440
<v Speaker 2>these days, who are really great engineers and sort of

1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:36.880
<v Speaker 2>discovering the border borders of where I can go with

1:00:37.400 --> 1:00:40.440
<v Speaker 2>design and digital. It's still is not there, but I

1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:43.640
<v Speaker 2>love three eighty four. We did the Tommy Emmanuel one

1:00:43.760 --> 1:00:48.320
<v Speaker 2>nine two, and I can say that I feel the difference.

1:00:49.040 --> 1:00:53.000
<v Speaker 2>So I've got let me brag for a minute. So

1:00:53.080 --> 1:00:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I've got the best headphones I can get. These are

1:00:56.680 --> 1:01:01.320
<v Speaker 2>automatic research and I've also got well you've seen Audies.

1:01:01.480 --> 1:01:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm a big fan of audis and all these are

1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:08.640
<v Speaker 2>these guys that our audience can't see them, but I

1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:14.520
<v Speaker 2>can flash them. These guys are you've seen these?

1:01:14.960 --> 1:01:15.640
<v Speaker 1>I have them.

1:01:15.680 --> 1:01:19.200
<v Speaker 2>This is the you have them? There you go. Well,

1:01:19.280 --> 1:01:24.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm mixed the last two, three four dozen records I've

1:01:24.440 --> 1:01:26.960
<v Speaker 2>done on these and I'll listen to them on speakers.

1:01:26.960 --> 1:01:30.520
<v Speaker 2>I've got genleis now I'll listen to them on speakers.

1:01:30.560 --> 1:01:33.240
<v Speaker 2>But this is where I do the critical listening where

1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you can hear the grass grow. You know, I hear

1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:41.320
<v Speaker 2>digital clicks, You're going to hear them first on Audies headphones.

1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:49.200
<v Speaker 2>So you know, I'm friends with those guys. If I help,

1:01:49.440 --> 1:01:53.520
<v Speaker 2>If I help these guys that have built something brilliant

1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:57.959
<v Speaker 2>get the word out there, we're friends for life.

1:01:58.280 --> 1:02:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, If I said you could use state of the

1:02:02.200 --> 1:02:07.080
<v Speaker 1>art digital or I gave you as much tape as

1:02:07.120 --> 1:02:10.160
<v Speaker 1>you wanted, Which would you choose?

1:02:11.760 --> 1:02:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, I honestly if I had enough tape, and I

1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:17.560
<v Speaker 2>don't think I would have enough tape, but if I did,

1:02:18.000 --> 1:02:22.440
<v Speaker 2>I'd use both. And we did that with the earliest

1:02:25.560 --> 1:02:28.080
<v Speaker 2>we did a director I did director desca tuc sacs

1:02:28.120 --> 1:02:35.040
<v Speaker 2>where we had We were recording both on on this

1:02:35.200 --> 1:02:41.600
<v Speaker 2>new got this another long fucking story, this new technology

1:02:41.720 --> 1:02:46.800
<v Speaker 2>called DSD or direct steam stream digital. It was an

1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:52.000
<v Speaker 2>engineer at Sony that I got to like. Cold Taka

1:02:52.560 --> 1:02:58.800
<v Speaker 2>was the smart guy at the Shubora Jubbara factory and

1:02:59.280 --> 1:03:01.760
<v Speaker 2>he was the that it talks on you Sodia to

1:03:01.760 --> 1:03:04.640
<v Speaker 2>putting money into this black project in the corner of

1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:08.520
<v Speaker 2>the factory. And we both discovered that the very earliest

1:03:08.640 --> 1:03:15.240
<v Speaker 2>good converter, which was a crystal something crystal converter was

1:03:15.280 --> 1:03:19.280
<v Speaker 2>a company before it was Cerrus. And discovered that one

1:03:19.320 --> 1:03:23.800
<v Speaker 2>of the pins was the output of a modulator and

1:03:23.840 --> 1:03:27.840
<v Speaker 2>if you took that pin, that one pin out of

1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:32.800
<v Speaker 2>the chip and just ran it into a filter, that

1:03:33.040 --> 1:03:35.680
<v Speaker 2>was the DDA converter was a resistor and a capacitor.

1:03:35.720 --> 1:03:39.000
<v Speaker 2>It was the DDA converter coming out of a digital

1:03:42.880 --> 1:03:50.800
<v Speaker 2>digital stream which was pulse with modulation, and so a

1:03:50.880 --> 1:03:54.200
<v Speaker 2>talk and D show turned that into a product before

1:03:55.720 --> 1:04:00.400
<v Speaker 2>uh Shaboya the Home office was ready and set the

1:04:00.440 --> 1:04:03.040
<v Speaker 2>samp or a too fucking low. So there were better

1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:06.160
<v Speaker 2>DSD processes that came out that were faster sabary. But

1:04:06.200 --> 1:04:10.800
<v Speaker 2>here's the takeaway is that no matter how fast we went,

1:04:11.560 --> 1:04:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and of late we're doing three eighty six and DSD

1:04:15.800 --> 1:04:20.240
<v Speaker 2>times sixteen, which is sixteen bits wide at sixteen x

1:04:20.960 --> 1:04:26.040
<v Speaker 2>fs sixteen times two point eight megaarants sixteen times, you

1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:30.640
<v Speaker 2>can imagine the data rings and it's pretty fucking hard

1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:34.480
<v Speaker 2>to hear. So I'm gonna have to say that eventually

1:04:34.480 --> 1:04:36.840
<v Speaker 2>it'll get there, and maybe there'll be another way to

1:04:36.880 --> 1:04:41.240
<v Speaker 2>do the converters. But the guys at Cerrus are about

1:04:41.320 --> 1:04:46.040
<v Speaker 2>the best I've heard so far, So I mean, I'm

1:04:46.120 --> 1:04:48.920
<v Speaker 2>liking digital. It's so much more convenient. If you have

1:04:48.960 --> 1:04:53.200
<v Speaker 2>a mistake, we've learned how to LaVey attract together to

1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:58.240
<v Speaker 2>fix one little mistake that casts this long shadow over

1:04:58.280 --> 1:05:01.640
<v Speaker 2>a performance. But she had she had one note wrong

1:05:01.880 --> 1:05:08.280
<v Speaker 2>in the chorus, and that colored her thinking. And I'm

1:05:08.280 --> 1:05:11.760
<v Speaker 2>talking about a female artist, now you can guess that

1:05:11.840 --> 1:05:14.400
<v Speaker 2>colored her thinking about the whole track, and a lot

1:05:14.400 --> 1:05:17.720
<v Speaker 2>of artists are like it that you're one thing and

1:05:20.640 --> 1:05:26.520
<v Speaker 2>forget about the track. So so early on I got

1:05:26.920 --> 1:05:31.840
<v Speaker 2>really good at and I'm going to brag about it

1:05:31.880 --> 1:05:35.120
<v Speaker 2>because we all got good using a Sony thirty three

1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:38.720
<v Speaker 2>forty eight edit takes together before there were workstations. Before

1:05:38.720 --> 1:05:43.480
<v Speaker 2>there was It's about the same time as Sodic Solutions,

1:05:43.520 --> 1:05:45.680
<v Speaker 2>So there was a Sodic Solutions workstation, but it was

1:05:45.880 --> 1:05:50.560
<v Speaker 2>very expensive and the converters were terrible, but I stayed

1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:54.280
<v Speaker 2>friends with him. For you, that's Andy Moohr, who was

1:05:54.400 --> 1:05:57.480
<v Speaker 2>one of that handful of digital engindeers that invented everything.

1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:02.240
<v Speaker 2>Andy Moore sort of the when he worked for George Lucas,

1:06:02.320 --> 1:06:08.200
<v Speaker 2>he invented this machine called the sound Droid, and he

1:06:08.280 --> 1:06:12.040
<v Speaker 2>did it so that he could do one performance of

1:06:12.080 --> 1:06:16.040
<v Speaker 2>the deep Note. You remember the Deep Note the t checks.

1:06:19.200 --> 1:06:25.120
<v Speaker 2>He that was Andy Moore, the musician said now I

1:06:25.160 --> 1:06:27.920
<v Speaker 2>could if I just had a powerful enough computer. So

1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:31.120
<v Speaker 2>he got George to invest in Sprocket Systems and he

1:06:31.200 --> 1:06:34.120
<v Speaker 2>was going to build at the edit Droid, at the

1:06:34.160 --> 1:06:39.120
<v Speaker 2>sound Droid, and uh, he's he's really my bottle of

1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:42.920
<v Speaker 2>a great university professor. He was at Stanford for all

1:06:42.960 --> 1:06:46.760
<v Speaker 2>those years, and everybody remembers, and he wrote the basic papers.

1:06:47.200 --> 1:06:51.760
<v Speaker 2>We still talk and he stole a musician. The point

1:06:51.880 --> 1:06:56.680
<v Speaker 2>is is that he was always pushing the boundaries and

1:06:56.880 --> 1:07:00.560
<v Speaker 2>it was an inspiration. There was always something better. So

1:07:01.920 --> 1:07:03.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm constantly throwing the baby in the water.

1:07:11.640 --> 1:07:15.360
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about playback. What do you think about? Okay,

1:07:16.040 --> 1:07:21.560
<v Speaker 1>this Vinyl revival. Louder is better. Let's simplify this, louder

1:07:21.600 --> 1:07:23.560
<v Speaker 1>is better. Okay, the Vinyl Revival.

1:07:23.680 --> 1:07:27.040
<v Speaker 2>This first studio that I got a job of, it

1:07:27.720 --> 1:07:32.520
<v Speaker 2>had an early mentor press, had a record press, and

1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:36.280
<v Speaker 2>shortly thereafter and I'm just in a high school at

1:07:36.280 --> 1:07:37.920
<v Speaker 2>that point, and I'm going to go to work at

1:07:37.920 --> 1:07:40.440
<v Speaker 2>this place of the summer, and I got introduced to

1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:45.840
<v Speaker 2>their pressing plan, and so early on I knew how

1:07:45.880 --> 1:07:47.680
<v Speaker 2>to master because we had a lath that was a

1:07:47.680 --> 1:07:50.520
<v Speaker 2>model laith, but I invented the digital pitch. Since then

1:07:50.520 --> 1:07:56.480
<v Speaker 2>it became the standard. You're welcome and a record press.

1:07:56.480 --> 1:08:00.760
<v Speaker 2>It later had two fabels and two fine builds in

1:08:00.880 --> 1:08:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the dirtiest environment ever in Pratt and Paki Street in

1:08:04.920 --> 1:08:12.240
<v Speaker 2>downtown Baltimore, and I did labels and jackets wherever there

1:08:12.280 --> 1:08:14.240
<v Speaker 2>was a need, I say, well, I could do that,

1:08:15.480 --> 1:08:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and learned printing in graphic arts because I had to

1:08:18.040 --> 1:08:21.559
<v Speaker 2>do it, and process photography, you know, the big cameras

1:08:21.600 --> 1:08:28.200
<v Speaker 2>of the whole rooms process photography. In other words, anything

1:08:28.240 --> 1:08:33.360
<v Speaker 2>that came along that interested me. I would try to

1:08:33.400 --> 1:08:39.600
<v Speaker 2>fill a need and build something or make something. And

1:08:39.640 --> 1:08:41.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm bragging, but I don't know any other way to

1:08:41.960 --> 1:08:46.320
<v Speaker 2>put it. I learned how to press records. We learned

1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:51.040
<v Speaker 2>how to master records of very automatic variable pitch systems.

1:08:51.520 --> 1:08:54.040
<v Speaker 2>We had a better system, and eventually was Jerry Block

1:08:54.120 --> 1:08:57.640
<v Speaker 2>who really came up with the working system. He was

1:08:57.720 --> 1:09:01.840
<v Speaker 2>chief engineer of Sigma Sout for a long time. What

1:09:01.880 --> 1:09:05.880
<v Speaker 2>you're getting under the idea that this life is in

1:09:06.040 --> 1:09:09.680
<v Speaker 2>the technical world is a world of relationships. And I

1:09:09.720 --> 1:09:15.040
<v Speaker 2>can't stress that about all of these different ideas were

1:09:15.160 --> 1:09:18.719
<v Speaker 2>relationshipships that we had with other energy. The latest relationship,

1:09:18.760 --> 1:09:25.080
<v Speaker 2>let's balance the one thing that the okay, but this

1:09:25.280 --> 1:09:31.439
<v Speaker 2>latest relationship that is in an actually relationship. Barcodiari who

1:09:31.800 --> 1:09:34.960
<v Speaker 2>was head engineer at Real World for Peter for a

1:09:35.000 --> 1:09:36.479
<v Speaker 2>long time. Okay, carry on.

1:09:36.960 --> 1:09:40.599
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, okay. If you talked about being McGill

1:09:41.240 --> 1:09:47.599
<v Speaker 1>and you described your personality. How you're angry, you're diffident, okay,

1:09:47.880 --> 1:09:52.919
<v Speaker 1>and distracted, which it implied that way you were working

1:09:53.000 --> 1:09:55.360
<v Speaker 1>and you were on the line as opposed to teaching.

1:09:56.000 --> 1:10:00.559
<v Speaker 1>It has to be right. You're a guy who calls

1:10:00.600 --> 1:10:04.479
<v Speaker 1>its street. There are many people who've worked, absolutely work

1:10:04.600 --> 1:10:09.759
<v Speaker 1>behind the board, who have never created equipment. Never mind

1:10:09.840 --> 1:10:14.880
<v Speaker 1>theorized how many people are on your level? Who can

1:10:14.920 --> 1:10:17.200
<v Speaker 1>you talk to and have a fulfilling conversation.

1:10:19.920 --> 1:10:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, I just met a couple of guys who now

1:10:22.880 --> 1:10:27.280
<v Speaker 2>work for Bows, and we tried to interest them in

1:10:27.360 --> 1:10:30.280
<v Speaker 2>the idea of supporting our show because we're looking for

1:10:30.560 --> 1:10:33.200
<v Speaker 2>donors give us a bunch of money. And there are

1:10:33.240 --> 1:10:38.360
<v Speaker 2>a couple of really smart guys still at this company

1:10:38.360 --> 1:10:42.920
<v Speaker 2>that Bosbolt called McIntosh. Remember Macintosh amplifiers. Of course, when

1:10:42.920 --> 1:10:45.000
<v Speaker 2>you heard a good system, you look behind the curtain

1:10:45.040 --> 1:10:51.200
<v Speaker 2>and hey mc seventy five five. And so I had

1:10:51.200 --> 1:10:55.439
<v Speaker 2>a conversation now four or five weeks ago with Chris

1:10:55.479 --> 1:10:59.160
<v Speaker 2>and Mike, and you couldn't get us off the phone.

1:10:59.200 --> 1:11:03.400
<v Speaker 2>We were talking about old designs that made Mackintosh special,

1:11:03.520 --> 1:11:07.759
<v Speaker 2>especially the output transformer. And there aren't that many guys

1:11:07.800 --> 1:11:12.719
<v Speaker 2>to talk to, And I want to say. I keep

1:11:12.800 --> 1:11:17.599
<v Speaker 2>looking for them because I did find a young kid

1:11:18.280 --> 1:11:22.200
<v Speaker 2>three years ago that was recommended to me as an

1:11:22.320 --> 1:11:24.960
<v Speaker 2>analog engineer. The kid wants to be an analog engineer.

1:11:24.960 --> 1:11:26.679
<v Speaker 2>All I want to do is take him to lunch

1:11:26.720 --> 1:11:30.760
<v Speaker 2>and say, are you fucking kidding? You know that you'll

1:11:30.760 --> 1:11:34.719
<v Speaker 2>never make any money. Nobody will understand a word you say.

1:11:34.840 --> 1:11:37.480
<v Speaker 2>And he and I have been working together on new designs.

1:11:38.200 --> 1:11:41.280
<v Speaker 2>So I have to invent the people to talk to.

1:11:42.040 --> 1:11:45.600
<v Speaker 2>I have to go out and find somebody that I

1:11:45.600 --> 1:11:51.200
<v Speaker 2>could train. And this this kid is brilliant. He's brilliant.

1:11:51.320 --> 1:11:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Somebody will seal him.

1:11:52.320 --> 1:11:56.040
<v Speaker 1>How about everyday life? Do you spend most of your

1:11:56.080 --> 1:11:59.840
<v Speaker 1>time alone? Or do you have a social life in

1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:01.280
<v Speaker 1>What are those people like?

1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:06.840
<v Speaker 2>I have a wonderful circle of friends in Nashville, and

1:12:06.880 --> 1:12:10.960
<v Speaker 2>you will have heard of many of them. And you

1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:16.680
<v Speaker 2>have read the story about Randy Travis doing the Redo,

1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:21.960
<v Speaker 2>which was ai of a song that he had written

1:12:22.320 --> 1:12:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and that my friend Kyle Lenning had produced. Kyle Letning

1:12:24.960 --> 1:12:28.200
<v Speaker 2>is good, and I go back to the beginning, back

1:12:28.240 --> 1:12:31.759
<v Speaker 2>in time. Kyle Lenning bought one of my early automation

1:12:31.920 --> 1:12:35.360
<v Speaker 2>systems when they cost ready for this one hundred and

1:12:35.360 --> 1:12:39.519
<v Speaker 2>thirty five thousand dollars. It made some money. It was

1:12:39.560 --> 1:12:43.639
<v Speaker 2>one of the few things I didn't make money. And

1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Kyle bought the idea and it wasn't his idea. It

1:12:47.400 --> 1:12:51.800
<v Speaker 2>came from an art the record company. Generally, I'm not

1:12:51.960 --> 1:12:54.479
<v Speaker 2>keen on talking about record companies in any kind of

1:12:54.520 --> 1:12:58.320
<v Speaker 2>positive way, but had the idea, well, why don't we

1:12:58.360 --> 1:13:00.240
<v Speaker 2>try to do that? But we do it right and

1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:04.040
<v Speaker 2>right meant that Randy had to be involved with the song.

1:13:04.560 --> 1:13:06.680
<v Speaker 2>So we're circling back to AI. Randy had to be

1:13:06.680 --> 1:13:09.519
<v Speaker 2>involved with the song and it had to get past

1:13:09.720 --> 1:13:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Kyle because Kyle it's an old analog engineer. It's not old,

1:13:15.080 --> 1:13:19.120
<v Speaker 2>but he's in my my group. Mike Reid, you've certainly

1:13:19.200 --> 1:13:21.839
<v Speaker 2>heard of Mike Read and one day you should interview

1:13:21.920 --> 1:13:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Mike Reid. I'll tell him about it because we've all listened.

1:13:25.160 --> 1:13:29.680
<v Speaker 2>We talked about it. Mike Reed, you recall, is the

1:13:29.720 --> 1:13:33.719
<v Speaker 2>guy that went to uh Penn Penn State with Paterno

1:13:34.479 --> 1:13:39.439
<v Speaker 2>and was writing string quartets and playing football. Mike Reed

1:13:39.920 --> 1:13:43.160
<v Speaker 2>went to the what team did he go to? But

1:13:43.200 --> 1:13:48.679
<v Speaker 2>head played three seasons in the NFL and then wrote songs.

1:13:49.280 --> 1:13:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Was and still is a songwriter and a the funniest

1:13:55.880 --> 1:13:59.559
<v Speaker 2>guy I've ever met in my whole life. And so

1:13:59.600 --> 1:14:02.360
<v Speaker 2>we get together every Friday morning with Bill Stay. I'm

1:14:02.360 --> 1:14:06.200
<v Speaker 2>surprised Bill didn't talk about this. I see Bill every

1:14:06.200 --> 1:14:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Friday morning. We used to get together in Los Angeles

1:14:08.360 --> 1:14:11.680
<v Speaker 2>every Tuesday and then every Thursday night. Now we get

1:14:11.720 --> 1:14:17.160
<v Speaker 2>together here and have coffee every Friday. So Bill, Bill

1:14:17.400 --> 1:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>is if you'll allow me to rave about Bill, He's

1:14:22.120 --> 1:14:24.240
<v Speaker 2>He's who I would like to grow up to be.

1:14:25.600 --> 1:14:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Is Bill Stay is a mixer because he is all musical, bustle,

1:14:30.800 --> 1:14:35.799
<v Speaker 2>Every twitch of his fingers, every twitch of his body

1:14:36.040 --> 1:14:43.000
<v Speaker 2>is musical, is performing. He's my hero.

1:14:43.200 --> 1:14:47.919
<v Speaker 1>Let's just go back playback. What's your viewpoint about vinyl

1:14:48.080 --> 1:14:50.719
<v Speaker 1>versus other methods of playback today?

1:14:52.760 --> 1:14:56.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, right now I'm listening to a one hundred ninety

1:14:56.479 --> 1:15:00.000
<v Speaker 2>two k D day. I find that if you play

1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:03.160
<v Speaker 2>a CDs back and up sample them to one hundred

1:15:03.160 --> 1:15:07.360
<v Speaker 2>and ninety two, they sound better. So my favorite playback

1:15:07.640 --> 1:15:11.679
<v Speaker 2>I can tell you is not Spotify. And the only

1:15:11.720 --> 1:15:13.639
<v Speaker 2>reason I would go to Spotify is if I can't

1:15:13.640 --> 1:15:16.000
<v Speaker 2>find a song any other way. But that guy's the

1:15:16.160 --> 1:15:22.120
<v Speaker 2>dem Daniel act. Somebody should shoot him in the back

1:15:22.160 --> 1:15:27.000
<v Speaker 2>of the dick. Okay, your favorite playback platform is Oops,

1:15:27.040 --> 1:15:30.160
<v Speaker 2>my wife read that you have to be invented. My

1:15:30.320 --> 1:15:38.360
<v Speaker 2>favorite platform would be a super high rate converter one two,

1:15:38.360 --> 1:15:45.200
<v Speaker 2>three four with actually with an analog app that we've

1:15:46.520 --> 1:15:48.280
<v Speaker 2>just built for the back end of a d d A,

1:15:48.640 --> 1:15:51.160
<v Speaker 2>so it has yet to be invented. It's called a

1:15:51.320 --> 1:15:54.840
<v Speaker 2>DAC follower. It is that little piece of linear gear,

1:15:55.120 --> 1:15:59.160
<v Speaker 2>linear silicon go on the other end of digital analog

1:15:59.240 --> 1:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>converurner and everybody does it with the same circuitry, and

1:16:05.000 --> 1:16:06.880
<v Speaker 2>we think we can do it better at doing it analog.

1:16:07.000 --> 1:16:10.479
<v Speaker 2>So is there a place for analog? Yep?

1:16:11.439 --> 1:16:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So, but in terms of what's commercially available today,

1:16:15.680 --> 1:16:18.760
<v Speaker 1>cubas or co buzz, do you think, well, how do

1:16:18.800 --> 1:16:22.559
<v Speaker 1>you feel about that? Shaking your head.

1:16:23.240 --> 1:16:25.599
<v Speaker 2>What I heard a couple of years ago? Yeah, because

1:16:25.640 --> 1:16:30.000
<v Speaker 2>it sucks. What I heard a couple of years ago sucked. Certainly.

1:16:31.200 --> 1:16:34.599
<v Speaker 2>The only service that does immersive right is a service

1:16:34.680 --> 1:16:39.240
<v Speaker 2>that does not use a codec. As soon as you

1:16:40.000 --> 1:16:44.960
<v Speaker 2>neck down data streams, you're throwing away stuff, you know,

1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:50.880
<v Speaker 2>the whole, the whole. All these guys that did that

1:16:51.120 --> 1:16:55.720
<v Speaker 2>work in codex did the FP three and it was

1:16:55.840 --> 1:17:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Carl Heinz Brandenburg and James Johnston and another guy that

1:17:01.640 --> 1:17:09.960
<v Speaker 2>did most of the codex are. They're okay guys, especially

1:17:10.080 --> 1:17:14.439
<v Speaker 2>James Shaunston. He's a really good scientist. Data scientist. Carl

1:17:14.479 --> 1:17:19.080
<v Speaker 2>hides is hopeless. But it sounds like shit. And they

1:17:19.120 --> 1:17:23.880
<v Speaker 2>did it based on what's called perceptual coding. Everything that's

1:17:23.920 --> 1:17:28.719
<v Speaker 2>wrong about MP three's is because they depend on perceptual coding.

1:17:30.000 --> 1:17:32.040
<v Speaker 2>You want to guess what that is, I'll just tell you.

1:17:32.479 --> 1:17:36.800
<v Speaker 2>It's that you know, it sounds enough like music so

1:17:36.840 --> 1:17:39.719
<v Speaker 2>that we can pass it off if a listener isn't

1:17:39.760 --> 1:17:43.560
<v Speaker 2>listening too carefully, that's perceptual coding. Perceptual coding is a

1:17:43.560 --> 1:17:46.840
<v Speaker 2>little like how many animals are in this picture? Well,

1:17:46.840 --> 1:17:51.320
<v Speaker 2>there's a bear behind the tree, isn't there? That's perceptual coding.

1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:56.160
<v Speaker 2>And it just sucks. And at the bandwidth and data

1:17:56.200 --> 1:17:59.120
<v Speaker 2>sizes or capabilities that we have now, there's no reason

1:17:59.160 --> 1:18:03.120
<v Speaker 2>for it, and they're still doing perceptual according the best

1:18:03.280 --> 1:18:07.880
<v Speaker 2>work I've heard has been Morton Lindberg at L two Records.

1:18:08.400 --> 1:18:13.160
<v Speaker 2>L two Records. So you run through you were you

1:18:13.200 --> 1:18:17.920
<v Speaker 2>see the immersive Gravvy Ive wought a couple and I'd

1:18:17.920 --> 1:18:20.080
<v Speaker 2>have to say that Morton Ledbergh, that's the best work

1:18:20.120 --> 1:18:24.880
<v Speaker 2>in the field, and he is relentless about quality and

1:18:24.920 --> 1:18:28.400
<v Speaker 2>nobody knows it. So next time you see Morton Lindbergh,

1:18:28.680 --> 1:18:33.760
<v Speaker 2>imagine that you could get one of his productions and

1:18:33.960 --> 1:18:36.479
<v Speaker 2>listen to it. But that's what I'd use. I'd use

1:18:36.880 --> 1:18:40.719
<v Speaker 2>a Morton Lindberg inspired system and a Morton Lindberg source.

1:18:41.560 --> 1:18:44.000
<v Speaker 1>How about the fact that you know, listen in the

1:18:44.200 --> 1:18:47.479
<v Speaker 1>late sixties and seventies, the goal was to get the

1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:51.400
<v Speaker 1>best stereo you could have, and then we hit the

1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:56.120
<v Speaker 1>leading yah ladies in nineties were a boombox became your stereo,

1:18:56.920 --> 1:18:57.439
<v Speaker 1>and then.

1:18:57.520 --> 1:18:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Airplans in the two stereos.

1:19:00.240 --> 1:19:02.479
<v Speaker 1>And needless to say, a lot of records are kind

1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:06.400
<v Speaker 1>cheaper than they used to be. But you have these

1:19:06.439 --> 1:19:09.120
<v Speaker 1>records were going on here about You're trying to get

1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:12.360
<v Speaker 1>the sound exactly right and the people are listening on

1:19:12.400 --> 1:19:17.000
<v Speaker 1>these inferior playback systems. Doesn't that make you crazy?

1:19:21.080 --> 1:19:23.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, something must make me crazy. But one of the

1:19:23.520 --> 1:19:25.559
<v Speaker 2>things that you might have talked to Bill about is

1:19:25.600 --> 1:19:30.519
<v Speaker 2>we had just listed his Telby Houston record. I was

1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:38.200
<v Speaker 2>on the original what was called the National Recording Board,

1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:45.000
<v Speaker 2>the National Recording Preservation Board with my friend Eric Schwartz,

1:19:45.280 --> 1:19:50.599
<v Speaker 2>and this last year we listed the Telby Houston record. Now,

1:19:50.720 --> 1:19:52.680
<v Speaker 2>you must have talked about that with Bill, because it

1:19:52.720 --> 1:19:57.439
<v Speaker 2>was book in our minds. It is in our minds

1:19:57.479 --> 1:20:01.400
<v Speaker 2>and our ears and our hearts. That was Shining City

1:20:01.439 --> 1:20:05.080
<v Speaker 2>on the Hill and it was so good, and he

1:20:05.240 --> 1:20:08.000
<v Speaker 2>was such a good live mixer that he could capture

1:20:08.040 --> 1:20:15.840
<v Speaker 2>that off the floor. So there's so many stories I

1:20:16.080 --> 1:20:18.040
<v Speaker 2>couldn't even beginuse. You should get built to tell them.

1:20:20.320 --> 1:20:24.360
<v Speaker 2>But all our audience were high fi stories back when

1:20:24.360 --> 1:20:26.000
<v Speaker 2>there was such a thing as a high Fi store,

1:20:26.720 --> 1:20:30.519
<v Speaker 2>and that seduced us into thinking that it could be

1:20:31.240 --> 1:20:35.719
<v Speaker 2>possibly the difference could possibly be heard by anybody. Now

1:20:36.120 --> 1:20:38.360
<v Speaker 2>at the same time we're trying to do this, we're

1:20:38.360 --> 1:20:41.599
<v Speaker 2>trying to do great music. So we have a couple

1:20:41.600 --> 1:20:44.759
<v Speaker 2>of different tracks here that we're trying to satisfy because

1:20:45.479 --> 1:20:49.240
<v Speaker 2>we learned pretty quickly that if it's just a technical

1:20:49.360 --> 1:20:57.479
<v Speaker 2>presentation of some piece of shit music, then it's hopeless

1:20:58.240 --> 1:21:00.280
<v Speaker 2>that it has to the music has to be there

1:21:00.280 --> 1:21:04.080
<v Speaker 2>as well, which means everything about the music, the writing,

1:21:04.200 --> 1:21:09.360
<v Speaker 2>the arrangement, the performance and the recording all have to

1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:13.559
<v Speaker 2>all have to work. So here's where we come to

1:21:14.680 --> 1:21:19.160
<v Speaker 2>the part in our story where John McBride at Blackbird

1:21:19.280 --> 1:21:21.559
<v Speaker 2>Studios and you've been here, have you seen my play?

1:21:21.640 --> 1:21:24.120
<v Speaker 1>I was going to ask you about your room at Blackbird.

1:21:24.800 --> 1:21:25.439
<v Speaker 1>I've been there.

1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's not my room. John paid for it, and

1:21:29.880 --> 1:21:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I'll do anything for job because he.

1:21:32.600 --> 1:21:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean I talked to John about it. He followed,

1:21:35.120 --> 1:21:36.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, he gave me a tour.

1:21:36.960 --> 1:21:40.280
<v Speaker 2>But that's but this was the other thing that a

1:21:40.320 --> 1:21:44.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of rooms suck. You know, in Los Angeles, there

1:21:44.280 --> 1:21:46.400
<v Speaker 2>are a handful of rooms that kind of work. Sony

1:21:46.439 --> 1:21:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Studios works well, the Barbers Transit station works well. But

1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:54.960
<v Speaker 2>uh so I thought, well, I've been dreaming this thing

1:21:55.000 --> 1:21:56.920
<v Speaker 2>for years. I'll build a room so that too. So

1:21:57.000 --> 1:22:01.559
<v Speaker 2>there's no part that I haven't tried to prove. That

1:22:01.720 --> 1:22:03.479
<v Speaker 2>was the answer to a question three times ago.

1:22:05.080 --> 1:22:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Well I have to ask you, you know, for those

1:22:07.320 --> 1:22:10.800
<v Speaker 1>people haven't been there, the studio that you designed at Blackbird,

1:22:10.800 --> 1:22:14.559
<v Speaker 1>where there are a number of studios, essentially there are

1:22:14.720 --> 1:22:20.000
<v Speaker 1>all these It's not a flat surface, they're different I'd

1:22:20.040 --> 1:22:23.679
<v Speaker 1>say probably one inch by half inch like a ruler

1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:30.920
<v Speaker 1>size rods that come out from the side very densely. Okay, okay.

1:22:31.120 --> 1:22:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Did it achieve the goal that you wanted it to.

1:22:37.280 --> 1:22:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Depends on who I was promising or with. John said,

1:22:45.240 --> 1:22:49.040
<v Speaker 2>if you come with me, I'll build the studio and

1:22:50.200 --> 1:22:55.400
<v Speaker 2>support you. And I opened the studio in two thousand

1:22:56.880 --> 1:23:02.160
<v Speaker 2>four or five, and the town took a collective yawn

1:23:03.160 --> 1:23:06.360
<v Speaker 2>when they weren't hostile, and most people were just hostile.

1:23:06.880 --> 1:23:09.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, I can't work in there. What are you crazy?

1:23:10.240 --> 1:23:14.320
<v Speaker 2>That's not music. And they're making, as Nashville has done

1:23:14.400 --> 1:23:18.960
<v Speaker 2>over the years, some of the worst sounding drek I've

1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:23.080
<v Speaker 2>ever heard, and defending it, you know, and dissing me.

1:23:23.800 --> 1:23:26.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, I did not. I arrived here on the

1:23:26.240 --> 1:23:30.120
<v Speaker 2>back of the trio record, which I think to this

1:23:30.200 --> 1:23:34.160
<v Speaker 2>day is a marvelous record. Is Dolly, Linda and Emmy,

1:23:34.280 --> 1:23:40.000
<v Speaker 2>which I produced, is a marvelous record, and so many stories,

1:23:43.400 --> 1:23:46.280
<v Speaker 2>And so they hated me when I came to town.

1:23:46.360 --> 1:23:50.320
<v Speaker 2>They thought that I was could acclaim that I could

1:23:50.320 --> 1:23:52.680
<v Speaker 2>make this kind of record for anybody. There were a

1:23:52.680 --> 1:23:58.800
<v Speaker 2>couple of artists that did roots records. Mary Chapin Carpenter

1:23:58.840 --> 1:24:02.759
<v Speaker 2>did that kind of record. Others did that kind of record.

1:24:02.800 --> 1:24:06.360
<v Speaker 2>But they're just not getting back to getting back to

1:24:06.479 --> 1:24:10.960
<v Speaker 2>some kind of innovation, and they're still making these god

1:24:11.400 --> 1:24:15.799
<v Speaker 2>awful records, these god awful country records, and the business

1:24:15.880 --> 1:24:20.000
<v Speaker 2>is long gone, that country music radio, the radio record,

1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:23.599
<v Speaker 2>that radio hit record long gone. You know that you've

1:24:23.600 --> 1:24:27.080
<v Speaker 2>written about it, and they just won't let go of it.

1:24:28.360 --> 1:24:30.439
<v Speaker 2>So finally there are a couple of vacus. Oh what

1:24:30.600 --> 1:24:34.280
<v Speaker 2>is Jack White? Jack White recorded in the room next

1:24:34.280 --> 1:24:38.599
<v Speaker 2>to it, and he loved showing people around the room

1:24:39.320 --> 1:24:42.760
<v Speaker 2>the studoc when he was doing some of those other

1:24:42.840 --> 1:24:45.479
<v Speaker 2>records that he did. He's a good guy, by the way,

1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:50.639
<v Speaker 2>Jack White. I love Jack. He invests from his heart

1:24:52.880 --> 1:24:57.680
<v Speaker 2>to your original question about about Blackbird is John has

1:24:57.720 --> 1:25:00.320
<v Speaker 2>poured his heart into it, and I don't I think

1:25:00.320 --> 1:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>that he is really delivered on his promise because I

1:25:04.280 --> 1:25:07.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't delivered to John McBride what I promised him. I

1:25:07.920 --> 1:25:12.040
<v Speaker 2>promised him that the studio would work, and it did.

1:25:12.960 --> 1:25:15.719
<v Speaker 2>But what it did best was to provide a listing

1:25:15.800 --> 1:25:20.559
<v Speaker 2>room in a totally immersive environment, a diffuse, a purely

1:25:20.600 --> 1:25:23.080
<v Speaker 2>diffuse room. And it wasn't my idea. I mean I

1:25:23.120 --> 1:25:28.599
<v Speaker 2>had an initial idea. Peter D'Antonio of RPG, and I

1:25:28.680 --> 1:25:33.200
<v Speaker 2>seeded his thinking early on, but he did the best

1:25:33.200 --> 1:25:34.680
<v Speaker 2>he could do. I did the best I could do,

1:25:34.760 --> 1:25:39.200
<v Speaker 2>and that's what I decided to go teach because nobody

1:25:39.520 --> 1:25:43.919
<v Speaker 2>liked it, nobody until recently.

1:25:45.320 --> 1:25:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So, over this career of engineering producing having GML,

1:25:54.120 --> 1:25:56.040
<v Speaker 1>did you make any money?

1:25:56.880 --> 1:26:01.519
<v Speaker 2>Nope? Oh well yeah I did a couple of times. No,

1:26:01.640 --> 1:26:05.920
<v Speaker 2>that's not true. I would say no, because, like everything else,

1:26:06.080 --> 1:26:13.519
<v Speaker 2>just unpredictable. So I have made when when music failed me,

1:26:13.640 --> 1:26:16.600
<v Speaker 2>I made money with gear when gear fe failed me,

1:26:17.560 --> 1:26:20.439
<v Speaker 2>teaching was a pretty good gig, and so there was

1:26:20.479 --> 1:26:25.280
<v Speaker 2>always something I can do. So it's only recently where

1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:32.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, these bastards have devalued recorded music to the

1:26:33.000 --> 1:26:38.200
<v Speaker 2>point where nobody pays engineers like the until Alicia Keys

1:26:38.200 --> 1:26:42.519
<v Speaker 2>came along and a hired Eric and I and Michael

1:26:42.560 --> 1:26:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Romanoski to do her catalog. And it was Anne Mitchelli

1:26:47.560 --> 1:26:51.479
<v Speaker 2>whose vision it was to remix her catalog and it

1:26:51.600 --> 1:26:56.879
<v Speaker 2>was hideously hard to do. That's that's that's a recipe

1:26:56.880 --> 1:27:02.800
<v Speaker 2>for failure, trying to remix multi as immersive interfuse. I

1:27:02.840 --> 1:27:05.160
<v Speaker 2>did my best, and I think I failed so much

1:27:05.200 --> 1:27:09.000
<v Speaker 2>that I owed a lot of money because I think

1:27:09.040 --> 1:27:13.720
<v Speaker 2>I failed and it's my responsibility. I told him we

1:27:13.720 --> 1:27:18.400
<v Speaker 2>could do it. We didn't, So I'm sorry, and I'm

1:27:18.439 --> 1:27:22.280
<v Speaker 2>sorry Alicia. And by the way, if you haven't interviewed Alicia,

1:27:22.800 --> 1:27:26.479
<v Speaker 2>she is the most extraordinary artist of the geniuses that

1:27:26.520 --> 1:27:33.000
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned, she's at the head table. She is completely brilliant.

1:27:34.040 --> 1:27:39.439
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're, you know, old in age, but historically did

1:27:39.479 --> 1:27:42.599
<v Speaker 1>you just sit at home and wait for the phone

1:27:42.680 --> 1:27:45.080
<v Speaker 1>to ring or did you beat the bushes for work?

1:27:49.280 --> 1:27:53.680
<v Speaker 2>The funny you should mention because when we developed the equalizer,

1:27:54.680 --> 1:27:57.760
<v Speaker 2>or when ITI wanted to put a product out, the

1:27:57.800 --> 1:27:59.920
<v Speaker 2>parametric Equalizer, I was the one that walked to the

1:28:00.040 --> 1:28:02.920
<v Speaker 2>round to studios. He got my engineer and this is

1:28:03.000 --> 1:28:06.040
<v Speaker 2>seventy four to seventy five, got my engineer friends to

1:28:06.720 --> 1:28:10.479
<v Speaker 2>listen to it, and that was hard to sell. So

1:28:10.600 --> 1:28:15.160
<v Speaker 2>I've always been able to introduce ideas and introduce gear

1:28:15.240 --> 1:28:20.160
<v Speaker 2>and sell stoff. With the equalizer, guys would look at

1:28:20.240 --> 1:28:24.640
<v Speaker 2>it and say, well, it's interesting, but it needs clickstops.

1:28:25.560 --> 1:28:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Is completely the opposite of what it was designed for.

1:28:29.720 --> 1:28:31.840
<v Speaker 2>And it took a while, but it took guys that

1:28:31.880 --> 1:28:38.760
<v Speaker 2>were particularly inspired to see the possibilities of having variables

1:28:38.960 --> 1:28:42.760
<v Speaker 2>frequency and be able to tune a dip equalizer to

1:28:42.840 --> 1:28:46.160
<v Speaker 2>take out a harmonic that was just driving you crazy,

1:28:46.280 --> 1:28:49.840
<v Speaker 2>or a fundamental of a guitar, or the fundamental of

1:28:49.880 --> 1:28:52.800
<v Speaker 2>a snare drum, so you could get that big fat

1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:55.360
<v Speaker 2>snare drum. You're welcome.

1:29:04.680 --> 1:29:08.559
<v Speaker 1>What about the AFIX World exciter? What was going on there?

1:29:09.680 --> 1:29:11.840
<v Speaker 2>That's a guy named Marvin Caesar, and I had a

1:29:11.880 --> 1:29:16.200
<v Speaker 2>big fight with him as well because it was bullshit. Oh,

1:29:16.240 --> 1:29:19.559
<v Speaker 2>but the bigger bullshit was Q sound. It was the

1:29:19.560 --> 1:29:22.679
<v Speaker 2>guy that was trying to voiced Q sound.

1:29:22.720 --> 1:29:26.760
<v Speaker 1>So let's slow this down. You had to give a

1:29:26.800 --> 1:29:32.280
<v Speaker 1>credit on the record on a fix didn't do anything Afix.

1:29:33.040 --> 1:29:36.360
<v Speaker 2>No, yes, yeah, it was like it was an equalizer,

1:29:37.400 --> 1:29:39.439
<v Speaker 2>and it had a particular kind of curve that you

1:29:39.479 --> 1:29:45.200
<v Speaker 2>could call unique. It had a very steep filter, and

1:29:45.240 --> 1:29:47.960
<v Speaker 2>there were problems with the filter. But at the end

1:29:48.000 --> 1:29:51.800
<v Speaker 2>of the day, it didn't do enough to warrant a

1:29:51.800 --> 1:29:54.719
<v Speaker 2>point on the record. Say as Q soun, he wanted

1:29:54.720 --> 1:29:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a point on the record. Guy that did that.

1:29:58.400 --> 1:30:03.040
<v Speaker 1>Q sound. The famous album was the Immaculate Collection, and

1:30:03.439 --> 1:30:07.520
<v Speaker 1>you could hear something It did not sound like traditional

1:30:07.560 --> 1:30:13.400
<v Speaker 1>stereo the whole thing failed, but it definitely sounded different

1:30:13.439 --> 1:30:14.639
<v Speaker 1>from traditional stereo.

1:30:16.000 --> 1:30:23.960
<v Speaker 2>But the idea of having what are called HRTF pinot cues.

1:30:25.160 --> 1:30:29.639
<v Speaker 2>HRTF has head related transfer functions, and right now Sony

1:30:29.760 --> 1:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>vm ME three sixty, which you've written about Sony VMB

1:30:34.360 --> 1:30:40.439
<v Speaker 2>three sixty, which alleges at doing a good job of

1:30:40.520 --> 1:30:42.639
<v Speaker 2>storing these samples, and they do a pretty good job.

1:30:42.640 --> 1:30:46.000
<v Speaker 2>But that's an idea Sony that we've been pushing for

1:30:46.200 --> 1:30:50.280
<v Speaker 2>years and finally formalized it in Sony vm ME three sixty.

1:30:51.880 --> 1:30:54.599
<v Speaker 2>What that is is something that was around even then

1:30:54.840 --> 1:30:59.679
<v Speaker 2>and was around as a product with the roland RSS reverb.

1:31:00.479 --> 1:31:02.640
<v Speaker 2>And so the way Peter Asher and I busted that

1:31:03.040 --> 1:31:07.040
<v Speaker 2>is Boostin had a party at his house post Medata,

1:31:07.800 --> 1:31:12.920
<v Speaker 2>and I fed Peter Asher, who was also very smart,

1:31:13.880 --> 1:31:17.599
<v Speaker 2>exactly what that was, what HRTF simulation was. And the

1:31:17.680 --> 1:31:22.320
<v Speaker 2>day before or maybe it was Lenny, one of the

1:31:22.320 --> 1:31:27.280
<v Speaker 2>two had to sign the contract for points on Q sound.

1:31:28.240 --> 1:31:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Peter went to a dinner party at most it was Christmas,

1:31:33.520 --> 1:31:40.200
<v Speaker 2>He's Jewish party and told them that it really wasn't

1:31:40.240 --> 1:31:42.280
<v Speaker 2>worth it, that the idea had already been patented by

1:31:42.360 --> 1:31:44.960
<v Speaker 2>roland In RSS, and that was the end of that.

1:31:46.360 --> 1:31:51.280
<v Speaker 2>So that's something that I love, really love to do,

1:31:52.560 --> 1:31:57.280
<v Speaker 2>is the guys that are disinclined to be honest about inventions,

1:31:58.360 --> 1:32:05.320
<v Speaker 2>disinclined to be clear about where IDs came from, disinclined

1:32:05.479 --> 1:32:13.839
<v Speaker 2>to be respectful of patents. A boy, I'm at their throats.

1:32:15.280 --> 1:32:16.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that's my job.

1:32:17.080 --> 1:32:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Let's switch gears a little bit. You married, you have kids.

1:32:23.120 --> 1:32:26.439
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, I gave all my money to two ex

1:32:26.479 --> 1:32:34.320
<v Speaker 2>wives and have of the most wonderful person in my

1:32:34.360 --> 1:32:37.040
<v Speaker 2>life now and wish I had married her first, but

1:32:37.120 --> 1:32:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I would have had to be robbing the cradle, and

1:32:42.760 --> 1:32:47.120
<v Speaker 2>wonderful things happened to us every day. But the ex

1:32:47.200 --> 1:32:51.679
<v Speaker 2>wives got the houses well especially. Oh here's a tidbit

1:32:51.880 --> 1:32:56.439
<v Speaker 2>that you'll have to love. X two is a singer name,

1:32:56.720 --> 1:33:01.200
<v Speaker 2>well sort of a singer name, Renee Armand, who was

1:33:01.320 --> 1:33:05.160
<v Speaker 2>in John Denver's road band, but she also had some

1:33:05.240 --> 1:33:07.960
<v Speaker 2>records on her own, and she got into the business

1:33:08.280 --> 1:33:16.639
<v Speaker 2>as a writer. She married San Francisco Bay Captain talking

1:33:16.640 --> 1:33:22.639
<v Speaker 2>about Captain Noah, very captain, nice guy. Her second marriage

1:33:22.760 --> 1:33:30.320
<v Speaker 2>was to Jim Gordon. Her third marriage was to Jim Horne.

1:33:32.320 --> 1:33:37.839
<v Speaker 2>Her fourth marriage there was a woman in here somewhere,

1:33:37.880 --> 1:33:40.360
<v Speaker 2>so she married a woman in there. But fourth and

1:33:40.400 --> 1:33:47.400
<v Speaker 2>fifth marriage was me and then she married a stock

1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and security salesperson. So I've had a personal life all along.

1:33:51.200 --> 1:33:55.040
<v Speaker 2>I just kept going for it. I can't but for

1:33:55.240 --> 1:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>the X two, the X one was loved by life.

1:34:00.520 --> 1:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>When just after I had designed the equ and we

1:34:06.479 --> 1:34:08.519
<v Speaker 2>no longer did that, it was the next of years.

1:34:08.560 --> 1:34:10.160
<v Speaker 2>I just had to get out of the country. What

1:34:10.280 --> 1:34:12.800
<v Speaker 2>to do well? We moved to Paris and I lived

1:34:12.800 --> 1:34:16.240
<v Speaker 2>in Paris for two years. Couldn't speak French to save

1:34:16.280 --> 1:34:18.320
<v Speaker 2>my life. Do you speak French? Mom?

1:34:18.479 --> 1:34:18.559
<v Speaker 1>No?

1:34:18.640 --> 1:34:21.600
<v Speaker 2>I do not. You seem to me to be a

1:34:21.640 --> 1:34:23.439
<v Speaker 2>guy that would be willing to learn.

1:34:24.240 --> 1:34:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, the only thing in France now it's not like

1:34:27.280 --> 1:34:29.240
<v Speaker 1>the seventies, not like the old days. A lot of

1:34:29.240 --> 1:34:32.120
<v Speaker 1>people speaking English and they're not as denigrating as they

1:34:32.240 --> 1:34:36.400
<v Speaker 1>used to be for those who can't speak French. But

1:34:37.240 --> 1:34:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to what degree did your two marriages break up? Because

1:34:40.120 --> 1:34:42.559
<v Speaker 1>the nature of the studio work is your work?

1:34:42.600 --> 1:34:46.759
<v Speaker 2>In twenty four son, it was used at his excuse

1:34:46.880 --> 1:34:51.439
<v Speaker 2>and it's still a challenge when I tell my wife

1:34:51.560 --> 1:34:55.920
<v Speaker 2>that I'm going to do something and it's become chimerical.

1:34:56.120 --> 1:35:00.680
<v Speaker 2>It just drifts off into the ozon. I really have

1:35:00.760 --> 1:35:03.400
<v Speaker 2>to I have to be responsible. I've had to grow up.

1:35:04.439 --> 1:35:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I just had a double fusion operation and I was

1:35:09.240 --> 1:35:14.439
<v Speaker 2>fucked up. I had I have spinal synosis from lifting

1:35:14.479 --> 1:35:17.840
<v Speaker 2>all that ship for all those years, and had two

1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:23.040
<v Speaker 2>procedures and a labinectomy in a ten eleven hours day

1:35:24.479 --> 1:35:29.720
<v Speaker 2>under propofault, and she coaxed me back to life, but

1:35:29.880 --> 1:35:34.120
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to do it. Take the exercise, will

1:35:34.680 --> 1:35:37.800
<v Speaker 2>whatever it was, take the this horrible drug that they

1:35:37.880 --> 1:35:40.640
<v Speaker 2>got paid. So I'm just coming out of that and

1:35:42.439 --> 1:35:44.320
<v Speaker 2>I owe my life stenosis.

1:35:44.320 --> 1:35:48.559
<v Speaker 1>You can't. You have to get the operation. But when

1:35:48.560 --> 1:35:53.759
<v Speaker 1>you marry who's been married like three or four times before,

1:35:54.520 --> 1:35:59.639
<v Speaker 1>this is like what's his name? King? You think it's

1:35:59.680 --> 1:36:02.240
<v Speaker 1>going to be different with you? Well, what makes you

1:36:02.320 --> 1:36:04.280
<v Speaker 1>think that the pattern's going to change?

1:36:05.760 --> 1:36:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Because I'm supposed to be able to design that. I

1:36:08.920 --> 1:36:12.160
<v Speaker 2>designed this other stuff and I was. I'm not that

1:36:12.240 --> 1:36:14.320
<v Speaker 2>way anymore. I've got to work for it now. But

1:36:14.400 --> 1:36:18.599
<v Speaker 2>I used to think that I could design my life

1:36:18.800 --> 1:36:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and I can't. I couldn't and I can't. What I

1:36:24.160 --> 1:36:27.200
<v Speaker 2>can do is be good as good as I could

1:36:27.200 --> 1:36:30.720
<v Speaker 2>possibly be to my friends and the guys that have

1:36:30.800 --> 1:36:34.160
<v Speaker 2>worked for me. I've got a guy doing manufacturing in Gmail,

1:36:34.320 --> 1:36:37.479
<v Speaker 2>been with me for almost forty years, and just give

1:36:37.520 --> 1:36:42.200
<v Speaker 2>him whatever he needs. Or my young assistant Kasrie Orrai,

1:36:42.680 --> 1:36:45.600
<v Speaker 2>who I taught at Berkeley, and she said I'm going

1:36:45.680 --> 1:36:47.479
<v Speaker 2>to move to Nashville and get a gig, and that

1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:51.160
<v Speaker 2>was almost thirty years ago, and nobody would hire her,

1:36:51.479 --> 1:36:53.080
<v Speaker 2>and I had to hire her, and every time I

1:36:53.120 --> 1:36:56.400
<v Speaker 2>gave her something to do, she would excel at Kasri,

1:36:56.560 --> 1:37:01.040
<v Speaker 2>could you learn photoshop? Yeah? How about my next Friday, Casri?

1:37:01.280 --> 1:37:02.360
<v Speaker 2>How about Final Cut Pro?

1:37:03.000 --> 1:37:03.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:37:03.640 --> 1:37:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Wednesday? And these people that have been so good to

1:37:08.080 --> 1:37:12.479
<v Speaker 2>me and worth everything you had.

1:37:12.479 --> 1:37:17.439
<v Speaker 1>This recovery from the operation and fusions are really you

1:37:17.479 --> 1:37:19.280
<v Speaker 1>know it was just rated because I know somebody else

1:37:19.400 --> 1:37:24.880
<v Speaker 1>had it is the most painful. But other than this interlude,

1:37:25.680 --> 1:37:28.960
<v Speaker 1>what's keeping you busy? Into? What degree are you working now?

1:37:31.840 --> 1:37:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Our work? Every day? I around two companies and we're

1:37:35.080 --> 1:37:39.240
<v Speaker 2>doing I haven't talked about Studio Confidential, but you understand

1:37:39.360 --> 1:37:44.679
<v Speaker 2>from Adam at Shortfire, who's been great, that we are

1:37:44.680 --> 1:37:45.360
<v Speaker 2>doing a show.

1:37:46.000 --> 1:37:48.959
<v Speaker 1>Talk about this show, this shows you're doing in February,

1:37:49.040 --> 1:37:50.160
<v Speaker 1>How did this come to be.

1:37:51.720 --> 1:37:55.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, it came to be what would have to admit

1:37:55.680 --> 1:38:01.679
<v Speaker 2>by default, because we adjusted that how to do great

1:38:01.720 --> 1:38:04.800
<v Speaker 2>immersive recording. I want to say that because we were

1:38:05.840 --> 1:38:10.719
<v Speaker 2>brought together by Phil Ramon to do these projects which

1:38:10.760 --> 1:38:18.080
<v Speaker 2>were which became DTS five point one, which became at

1:38:18.160 --> 1:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>most except that ATMOS is not very good. We came

1:38:23.040 --> 1:38:26.519
<v Speaker 2>together and we couldn't get any work anymore. So I'm Elliott,

1:38:26.520 --> 1:38:30.320
<v Speaker 2>and I've been friends with Elliott forever because we mix,

1:38:31.000 --> 1:38:33.640
<v Speaker 2>We're of like minds and like hearts. The way we

1:38:33.760 --> 1:38:36.720
<v Speaker 2>mix and the way we the way we listen, and

1:38:36.800 --> 1:38:39.400
<v Speaker 2>I just have so much respect for him that he'll

1:38:39.439 --> 1:38:44.200
<v Speaker 2>never suggest anything that I say, I can't do that. Never, never,

1:38:44.240 --> 1:38:46.839
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of the thing. So we got together

1:38:47.439 --> 1:38:51.880
<v Speaker 2>in this group run by another buddy, kind of a

1:38:51.920 --> 1:38:56.759
<v Speaker 2>manager of the group, and the seven of us, all

1:38:56.840 --> 1:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>seven would get together have meetings that we'd have actual

1:39:01.360 --> 1:39:05.440
<v Speaker 2>meetings at ah shows and then we'd have virtual meetings.

1:39:05.479 --> 1:39:09.960
<v Speaker 2>But every time we got together there would be endless laughs,

1:39:10.520 --> 1:39:14.400
<v Speaker 2>especially for med Journey, who's the funniest guy on earth.

1:39:14.640 --> 1:39:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Before that Al Schmidt and before that Phil Ramon, and

1:39:20.840 --> 1:39:25.599
<v Speaker 2>it all came from you know, at the show one

1:39:25.680 --> 1:39:28.040
<v Speaker 2>year in two thousand and too, Phil mentioned it to

1:39:28.080 --> 1:39:30.599
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of guys and then Al said, yeah, that'd

1:39:30.640 --> 1:39:33.960
<v Speaker 2>be a good idea, and then and helped move it

1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:39.200
<v Speaker 2>to Narris to the Recording Academy. Now it's the P

1:39:39.360 --> 1:39:41.479
<v Speaker 2>and E Wing, But that group that we got together

1:39:43.439 --> 1:39:48.839
<v Speaker 2>exists today as the Meta Alliance Music Engineers Technology Alliance

1:39:49.920 --> 1:39:54.840
<v Speaker 2>and Elliot and I did a book that Jim sort

1:39:54.840 --> 1:39:56.639
<v Speaker 2>of liked the idea. I don't think it did very well.

1:39:56.800 --> 1:39:59.000
<v Speaker 2>It was the Drum Book How we all did drums.

1:39:59.240 --> 1:40:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Thought that was going to be be great, didn't make

1:40:01.760 --> 1:40:05.280
<v Speaker 2>any money, And then we did in the studio with

1:40:05.400 --> 1:40:11.760
<v Speaker 2>the guys and we do demos back when Ed and

1:40:12.360 --> 1:40:18.799
<v Speaker 2>Al Schmidt were participating, and then and then Phil died

1:40:19.360 --> 1:40:24.719
<v Speaker 2>and looking for other people, and I chose Nico Bolas

1:40:24.880 --> 1:40:28.559
<v Speaker 2>and and not in the pushy ways. So nobody thinks

1:40:28.560 --> 1:40:32.320
<v Speaker 2>it's my idea. It was my idea, and Nico, you know,

1:40:32.560 --> 1:40:39.200
<v Speaker 2>did Neil for all those years Bill Young and and

1:40:39.240 --> 1:40:48.000
<v Speaker 2>then and then after Ed died, I've always wanted to

1:40:48.120 --> 1:40:52.400
<v Speaker 2>invite Jimmy Douglas and had also talked to Sylvia Massey

1:40:52.439 --> 1:40:55.880
<v Speaker 2>and they weren't ready, but then they were ready. So

1:40:56.080 --> 1:41:00.640
<v Speaker 2>the seven of us now include Nico, Bolas, Jimmy and

1:41:00.720 --> 1:41:09.120
<v Speaker 2>Sylvia Massey. And in the studio with the guys didn't work.

1:41:09.160 --> 1:41:12.559
<v Speaker 2>So Elliott and I proposed doing sitting on stage and

1:41:12.600 --> 1:41:16.960
<v Speaker 2>telling stories, which everybody hated. So Elliott and I said,

1:41:18.920 --> 1:41:21.519
<v Speaker 2>this is a great idea. Let's just do it without

1:41:21.560 --> 1:41:26.800
<v Speaker 2>the guys, and so we designed it and funded it,

1:41:26.880 --> 1:41:30.920
<v Speaker 2>and eventually the guys fell in line, and we did

1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:33.599
<v Speaker 2>a show at Bridgefield a year at the Ridgefield Playhouse

1:41:33.680 --> 1:41:40.640
<v Speaker 2>in in Ridgefield, Connecticut, which we designed. We kind of

1:41:40.680 --> 1:41:43.479
<v Speaker 2>we kind of scripted, but we scripted in the sense

1:41:43.479 --> 1:41:46.800
<v Speaker 2>that we organized telling stories. I kept them on a

1:41:46.840 --> 1:41:51.440
<v Speaker 2>spreadsheet and could work off a spreadsheet. And it was successful.

1:41:52.000 --> 1:41:59.439
<v Speaker 2>It was the proof of concept, and I would be

1:41:59.479 --> 1:42:03.280
<v Speaker 2>surprised if you hadn't seen it, because we were encouraged

1:42:03.320 --> 1:42:08.000
<v Speaker 2>to do it by everybody we talked to, including my

1:42:08.120 --> 1:42:11.080
<v Speaker 2>next door neighbor Gary Getzman, from when I lived on

1:42:11.200 --> 1:42:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Valley Vista in Sherman Oaks. But we never really we

1:42:21.120 --> 1:42:24.800
<v Speaker 2>never pursued it until we did it at Richfield, and

1:42:24.840 --> 1:42:27.320
<v Speaker 2>then Elliott and I said, well, what the fuck, because

1:42:27.320 --> 1:42:31.880
<v Speaker 2>we're both old, We're two old guys, and I had

1:42:31.920 --> 1:42:35.800
<v Speaker 2>to do it. And so that's what Machine Center. The

1:42:35.880 --> 1:42:39.160
<v Speaker 2>thing at Machine Center is a boy, Bob. If you

1:42:39.200 --> 1:42:43.639
<v Speaker 2>could help us do anything, we would be in your

1:42:43.680 --> 1:42:44.760
<v Speaker 2>debt for all time.

1:42:45.040 --> 1:42:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you know I got the press release, but since

1:42:49.240 --> 1:42:53.439
<v Speaker 1>I have you, yeah, because it talks about a window

1:42:53.520 --> 1:42:55.679
<v Speaker 1>from February second to sometime later.

1:42:55.640 --> 1:42:59.240
<v Speaker 2>In February March. First, how many shows are there going

1:42:59.320 --> 1:43:03.599
<v Speaker 2>to be? Twenty eight? They're going to be twenty eight shows?

1:43:03.680 --> 1:43:06.600
<v Speaker 2>And what is going to be different about those shows?

1:43:07.600 --> 1:43:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Different stories and different ways of approaching it In this

1:43:11.280 --> 1:43:16.120
<v Speaker 2>last in this last show we did we did Ron

1:43:16.240 --> 1:43:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Robin seven stories. Each of us told one, and then

1:43:20.200 --> 1:43:23.519
<v Speaker 2>in the second half we kind of loosened up a

1:43:23.560 --> 1:43:28.000
<v Speaker 2>bit and told some stories that we couldn't fit into

1:43:28.040 --> 1:43:32.240
<v Speaker 2>that fixed time. And this time, in one of the

1:43:32.360 --> 1:43:38.280
<v Speaker 2>promo passes, we asked the audience if they had anybody

1:43:38.320 --> 1:43:42.080
<v Speaker 2>that they'd like like to hear about, and some gentle

1:43:42.120 --> 1:43:45.120
<v Speaker 2>souls said Phil Ramond. And we've each of us got

1:43:45.160 --> 1:43:50.280
<v Speaker 2>about ten Philramonds stories, including that one I told you

1:43:50.320 --> 1:43:55.400
<v Speaker 2>about Stay with Me Baby. So the way we do

1:43:55.439 --> 1:43:59.280
<v Speaker 2>it is we get together on these calls and we

1:43:59.400 --> 1:44:02.920
<v Speaker 2>just entered tain each other, and I write down a

1:44:02.960 --> 1:44:06.840
<v Speaker 2>short version of the idea on a spreadsheet, and then

1:44:06.840 --> 1:44:09.920
<v Speaker 2>we get together and decide which ones to be serious

1:44:09.920 --> 1:44:13.360
<v Speaker 2>about and which ones to rehearse. And once we rehearse them,

1:44:13.400 --> 1:44:16.360
<v Speaker 2>we know what kind of time they'll take and how

1:44:16.400 --> 1:44:20.679
<v Speaker 2>to fit them in. So we're doing this, this show,

1:44:20.960 --> 1:44:24.560
<v Speaker 2>and we're basically at living it, which just about everybody

1:44:24.600 --> 1:44:28.880
<v Speaker 2>has told us won't work, and we don't think they're right.

1:44:29.800 --> 1:44:33.519
<v Speaker 1>We just so we understand. Is it twenty eight? Is

1:44:33.560 --> 1:44:37.720
<v Speaker 1>it like a Broadway play? Were there twenty eight performances

1:44:37.760 --> 1:44:39.960
<v Speaker 1>of one show? Or is it different every night?

1:44:40.560 --> 1:44:44.120
<v Speaker 2>It can be different every night, but that's a stretch.

1:44:44.320 --> 1:44:49.240
<v Speaker 2>If we're lucky, each of us has well. We started up,

1:44:49.280 --> 1:44:53.160
<v Speaker 2>I said everybody has to have one hundred shows. Couldn't

1:44:53.160 --> 1:44:55.639
<v Speaker 2>do that, So then we got down to each one

1:44:55.640 --> 1:44:59.960
<v Speaker 2>of us has to have thirty shows. That was too much.

1:45:00.640 --> 1:45:03.200
<v Speaker 2>We finally got down to every one of us has

1:45:03.280 --> 1:45:06.839
<v Speaker 2>to have at least eight shows, where we could rotate

1:45:06.880 --> 1:45:10.519
<v Speaker 2>them if we feel so inspired, or we add one,

1:45:10.960 --> 1:45:14.760
<v Speaker 2>but we give ourselves a break in that we've got

1:45:14.800 --> 1:45:17.559
<v Speaker 2>one that's well rehearsed and we could just roll that

1:45:17.680 --> 1:45:21.080
<v Speaker 2>story out, because you know, at the end of the day.

1:45:21.479 --> 1:45:23.840
<v Speaker 2>That's what we did in the studio. We could tell

1:45:23.880 --> 1:45:29.400
<v Speaker 2>stories and because you had to make people, there are

1:45:29.400 --> 1:45:32.160
<v Speaker 2>a couple. Here's one of the things that AI doesn't

1:45:32.160 --> 1:45:33.960
<v Speaker 2>do is it doesn't know how to tell a joke.

1:45:34.280 --> 1:45:38.960
<v Speaker 2>So I started with AI asking an AI agent to

1:45:39.000 --> 1:45:42.680
<v Speaker 2>tell me a joke, and it couldn't. But it could say, no,

1:45:42.920 --> 1:45:45.320
<v Speaker 2>you tell me a joke, which meant that it was

1:45:45.360 --> 1:45:48.880
<v Speaker 2>taking my joke and stealing it. And so I didn't

1:45:48.920 --> 1:45:55.599
<v Speaker 2>tell any jokes. But AI doesn't do certain things at all.

1:45:56.560 --> 1:46:05.160
<v Speaker 2>It does not do well this thing of coherence of

1:46:05.240 --> 1:46:08.200
<v Speaker 2>a story, like a song, where you can have a

1:46:08.360 --> 1:46:11.120
<v Speaker 2>last verse that wraps it up like a Jimmy Webleer,

1:46:12.880 --> 1:46:15.639
<v Speaker 2>and I love you more that says, and I love

1:46:15.640 --> 1:46:19.000
<v Speaker 2>you for all time. It's bad English that he famously repeats.

1:46:19.520 --> 1:46:23.760
<v Speaker 2>But it's something today I couldn't do. I love you

1:46:23.800 --> 1:46:26.000
<v Speaker 2>more than need I love you more than need you,

1:46:26.040 --> 1:46:28.640
<v Speaker 2>but I and I need you for all time A.

1:46:28.800 --> 1:46:31.439
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't do that because it dismays the laws of grammar.

1:46:32.240 --> 1:46:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't do that. I can't do good vibrations, could not

1:46:35.720 --> 1:46:39.240
<v Speaker 2>do good vibrations. Even if it did good vibrations. It

1:46:39.240 --> 1:46:43.479
<v Speaker 2>couldn't imagine the way Brian Wilson put that together. So

1:46:44.640 --> 1:46:47.360
<v Speaker 2>we can tell a story, we can tell sort of

1:46:47.439 --> 1:46:51.280
<v Speaker 2>fucking Phil Remond, you'd be working. We did the second

1:46:51.400 --> 1:46:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Duets record Lennon Segon some frack tracks, and we got

1:46:57.200 --> 1:47:00.720
<v Speaker 2>started with with Phil Remone. Came to Northern California, we

1:47:01.200 --> 1:47:06.200
<v Speaker 2>started recording, or we thought, but no. Bill Vermont started

1:47:06.240 --> 1:47:09.680
<v Speaker 2>telling stories at eleven or twelve in the morning, and

1:47:09.720 --> 1:47:12.280
<v Speaker 2>about the time six or seven o'clock rolled around and said, well,

1:47:12.280 --> 1:47:14.840
<v Speaker 2>we got to eat dinner. We'll finish after dinner. Got

1:47:14.880 --> 1:47:19.240
<v Speaker 2>back to it, hadn't recorded note one and Phil turns

1:47:19.320 --> 1:47:21.080
<v Speaker 2>to us and said, well, are we going to get

1:47:21.120 --> 1:47:28.840
<v Speaker 2>anything done today? So that kind of story. I've got

1:47:28.840 --> 1:47:32.599
<v Speaker 2>a Linda's story about Linda eating a cherry pie off

1:47:32.600 --> 1:47:38.840
<v Speaker 2>the floor, a cherry pie with a lard crust that

1:47:39.000 --> 1:47:42.520
<v Speaker 2>she had the cook that we had in Northern California

1:47:43.000 --> 1:47:45.200
<v Speaker 2>bake and do you think there's a lot of lard

1:47:45.280 --> 1:47:51.120
<v Speaker 2>in Northern California. So I mean, we've got stories. So

1:47:51.800 --> 1:47:52.840
<v Speaker 2>we've got stories.

1:47:53.080 --> 1:47:56.320
<v Speaker 1>How many seats will be available? And does it cost

1:47:56.400 --> 1:47:56.680
<v Speaker 1>to go?

1:47:58.760 --> 1:48:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? It does. But you know we're having Trump with you,

1:48:02.040 --> 1:48:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I can tell the truth because you've been here. It's

1:48:05.080 --> 1:48:09.679
<v Speaker 2>been a challenge selling tickets. You know, we've got guys

1:48:09.680 --> 1:48:13.280
<v Speaker 2>that have never done Instagram. Well what has Jimmy Douglas

1:48:13.280 --> 1:48:14.160
<v Speaker 2>has and Sylvie has?

1:48:14.200 --> 1:48:14.600
<v Speaker 1>But I have.

1:48:15.400 --> 1:48:18.400
<v Speaker 2>So we've now got to dig deep into stuff that

1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:21.280
<v Speaker 2>we can roll out and get some promotion to get

1:48:21.360 --> 1:48:25.439
<v Speaker 2>people to come and pay from eighty to one hundred

1:48:25.439 --> 1:48:29.080
<v Speaker 2>and thirty seat. Well, we've had to add students at

1:48:29.120 --> 1:48:34.599
<v Speaker 2>half price. We've had to do a week of of

1:48:34.880 --> 1:48:38.639
<v Speaker 2>prep work. Maybe we have a couple of free shows

1:48:38.720 --> 1:48:42.280
<v Speaker 2>the first week. But it's been a struggle and very

1:48:42.320 --> 1:48:45.920
<v Speaker 2>slowly we're selling tickets. But you know, we've got to

1:48:45.920 --> 1:48:48.799
<v Speaker 2>get the word out there because we're not reaching our audience.

1:48:49.560 --> 1:48:51.960
<v Speaker 2>We know we haven't. We have an audience.

1:48:51.960 --> 1:48:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the press release talked about video distribution. What's going

1:48:57.000 --> 1:48:57.479
<v Speaker 1>on there?

1:48:59.000 --> 1:49:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, the very first thing I did when we did

1:49:02.479 --> 1:49:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Ridgefield is I know how to do video, how to

1:49:05.800 --> 1:49:08.960
<v Speaker 2>produce a director. So we did. We spent some money

1:49:09.000 --> 1:49:13.439
<v Speaker 2>with good cameras. I did the rough edit we got

1:49:14.880 --> 1:49:16.920
<v Speaker 2>We've never done a finished show out of Ridgefield, but

1:49:17.000 --> 1:49:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I did the mastard and from that we got the

1:49:21.960 --> 1:49:25.560
<v Speaker 2>sizzle reel. So that's the one that I'd hope you'd see,

1:49:25.960 --> 1:49:32.160
<v Speaker 2>and eventually you saw it. Yeah, So that sold everybody.

1:49:32.720 --> 1:49:35.920
<v Speaker 2>So then I went to my insiders. I went to

1:49:35.960 --> 1:49:39.400
<v Speaker 2>Gary Gatsman and he's so busy he didn't have time

1:49:39.439 --> 1:49:44.160
<v Speaker 2>for it. And we'll go back to Gary, and we

1:49:44.160 --> 1:49:48.960
<v Speaker 2>were well positioned to pass the idea off and have

1:49:49.080 --> 1:49:54.439
<v Speaker 2>somebody else do it. But I've never had that kind

1:49:54.479 --> 1:49:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of involvement with a director where I trust them, because

1:49:59.000 --> 1:50:04.160
<v Speaker 2>they all fucked me over the largest largest portion of

1:50:04.200 --> 1:50:06.479
<v Speaker 2>my career. One thing I could say is that every

1:50:06.960 --> 1:50:11.080
<v Speaker 2>video director I've ever worked with should be buried under

1:50:11.200 --> 1:50:13.639
<v Speaker 2>thirty feet of sand at the bottom of the marrier

1:50:13.920 --> 1:50:19.559
<v Speaker 2>this trench. They're just got off and I keep trusting them,

1:50:19.600 --> 1:50:24.919
<v Speaker 2>and I've said I'm not trusting director any well unless

1:50:24.920 --> 1:50:29.880
<v Speaker 2>it's certain classic guys. So well, so we decided to

1:50:29.880 --> 1:50:32.519
<v Speaker 2>do it on a all but we didn't have enough money,

1:50:33.240 --> 1:50:35.720
<v Speaker 2>so we thought put on a show.

1:50:36.240 --> 1:50:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you know, I saw the sizzle reel send to

1:50:39.120 --> 1:50:44.320
<v Speaker 1>me from the PR person. Is that sizzle reel on YouTube?

1:50:45.320 --> 1:50:47.760
<v Speaker 2>We've tried to keep the stories off of YouTube so

1:50:47.800 --> 1:50:49.160
<v Speaker 2>that they'd be fresh at the show.

1:50:49.800 --> 1:50:51.759
<v Speaker 1>But I thought this is going to be different stories

1:50:51.760 --> 1:50:53.559
<v Speaker 1>from the Ridgefield thing. Are they the same?

1:50:55.160 --> 1:50:57.240
<v Speaker 2>It is, but we didn't want to show that one

1:50:57.280 --> 1:50:59.640
<v Speaker 2>off because we might go back to it, particularly the

1:50:59.680 --> 1:51:02.559
<v Speaker 2>one out deal Young and the red Neck.

1:51:02.920 --> 1:51:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Listen, I'm gonna give you a place because it's my nature.

1:51:07.840 --> 1:51:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Ah, you're good at it too.

1:51:09.720 --> 1:51:13.680
<v Speaker 1>People go to see the band and to hear the

1:51:13.720 --> 1:51:18.719
<v Speaker 1>same song multiple times. People would go to Hamilton multiple times.

1:51:18.960 --> 1:51:22.800
<v Speaker 1>People are watching K pop demon Hunters. It is so

1:51:23.439 --> 1:51:27.599
<v Speaker 1>hard to reach people. You of all people, and you're

1:51:27.640 --> 1:51:32.000
<v Speaker 1>sitting with in the studio. I've heard the same stories

1:51:32.080 --> 1:51:37.080
<v Speaker 1>multiple times and still laughed. You know. We have to

1:51:37.479 --> 1:51:42.839
<v Speaker 1>so to put out something where people get a taste

1:51:42.880 --> 1:51:46.200
<v Speaker 1>of it and spread the word. What you were doing

1:51:46.520 --> 1:51:50.800
<v Speaker 1>is unique, But you're first going to appeal to an

1:51:50.920 --> 1:51:53.960
<v Speaker 1>older demo that is hard to reach, who we're going

1:51:54.040 --> 1:51:58.200
<v Speaker 1>to be unaware of it. So you have to literally

1:51:58.360 --> 1:52:02.759
<v Speaker 1>do everything you can to reach these people. Don't hold

1:52:02.840 --> 1:52:05.599
<v Speaker 1>anything back, Bob.

1:52:06.160 --> 1:52:08.640
<v Speaker 2>If only I had talked to you in October, but

1:52:08.760 --> 1:52:12.840
<v Speaker 2>I did so right now, we're redoing some of these

1:52:12.880 --> 1:52:16.160
<v Speaker 2>so that we could connect better. So you're right, Oh,

1:52:16.240 --> 1:52:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I can.

1:52:16.560 --> 1:52:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Say, I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go

1:52:18.680 --> 1:52:21.200
<v Speaker 1>a little bit further because it's not necessarily too late.

1:52:21.920 --> 1:52:27.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, Todd Rungren is on TikTok telling how he

1:52:27.439 --> 1:52:31.160
<v Speaker 1>recorded and wrote some of these songs. Okay, for a

1:52:31.160 --> 1:52:34.280
<v Speaker 1>long time people wouldn't talk about that. Let's not talk

1:52:34.320 --> 1:52:38.120
<v Speaker 1>about whether you should or shouldn't do it. Now. Jackson's Brown,

1:52:38.280 --> 1:52:42.960
<v Speaker 1>of all people, is on TikTok telling his stories. Okay.

1:52:43.280 --> 1:52:46.320
<v Speaker 1>So if each of you got on there and told

1:52:46.320 --> 1:52:50.800
<v Speaker 1>the story on TikTok, the way the algorithm is, some

1:52:50.880 --> 1:52:54.400
<v Speaker 1>people are gonna find it. And if you find something

1:52:54.439 --> 1:52:57.760
<v Speaker 1>you like, you're gonna tell other people. You have to

1:52:57.880 --> 1:52:59.880
<v Speaker 1>give yourself a fighting chance.

1:53:01.280 --> 1:53:03.960
<v Speaker 2>You're right, You're right. By the way, I've got a

1:53:03.960 --> 1:53:08.639
<v Speaker 2>great Jackson Brown story because he and all we're best friends,

1:53:08.640 --> 1:53:12.559
<v Speaker 2>and we pretty much invented how do the modern vocal

1:53:12.640 --> 1:53:17.360
<v Speaker 2>overdobe with Jackson and Old George a multi track.

1:53:17.560 --> 1:53:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Jackson was famous for comping that infinitum.

1:53:22.560 --> 1:53:26.479
<v Speaker 2>So that's what we turned it into. And what is

1:53:26.560 --> 1:53:31.960
<v Speaker 2>your take on that? Well, what he didn't do was

1:53:32.040 --> 1:53:35.840
<v Speaker 2>to avoid punching in a word in the chorus that

1:53:35.960 --> 1:53:38.759
<v Speaker 2>if he just got down to it, he would punch

1:53:39.000 --> 1:53:41.960
<v Speaker 2>a word or phrase of the course, which invariably didn't

1:53:42.000 --> 1:53:46.160
<v Speaker 2>work because it has the wrong phrasing, the wrong breath,

1:53:46.720 --> 1:53:49.479
<v Speaker 2>the wrong place in your voice where it comes from.

1:53:49.800 --> 1:53:53.519
<v Speaker 2>And what we did with Lowell and Jackson was to

1:53:53.560 --> 1:53:58.479
<v Speaker 2>record whenever we could a bigger track. So if we

1:53:58.640 --> 1:54:01.840
<v Speaker 2>had one phrase that was wrong in the first chorus,

1:54:02.560 --> 1:54:06.559
<v Speaker 2>we would never spin it, fly it a copy it

1:54:06.560 --> 1:54:11.639
<v Speaker 2>from courts to chorus. We would also encourage the singers,

1:54:11.680 --> 1:54:13.639
<v Speaker 2>which were Lola Jackson, to sing it from the top

1:54:13.680 --> 1:54:16.200
<v Speaker 2>every time, even if you have just one line you

1:54:16.240 --> 1:54:19.840
<v Speaker 2>need to fix, get lost in the song, sing the

1:54:19.920 --> 1:54:23.080
<v Speaker 2>song again. So I could get on today and tell

1:54:23.080 --> 1:54:26.080
<v Speaker 2>that story and get people to listen to it, and

1:54:26.520 --> 1:54:30.200
<v Speaker 2>you would still cop and it became the Handley Cop.

1:54:30.240 --> 1:54:33.440
<v Speaker 2>And there's a story in doing Handley Cops because he

1:54:33.720 --> 1:54:38.880
<v Speaker 2>was just I mean, if Jackson was obdurate, Handily was crazed.

1:54:40.120 --> 1:54:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Guys was JD. Southern And there's no better voice in

1:54:45.760 --> 1:54:49.320
<v Speaker 2>the world than Henley. But boy, working for it is

1:54:49.360 --> 1:54:54.240
<v Speaker 2>a drag. Never say yes again. But I can't say that.

1:54:55.560 --> 1:54:56.720
<v Speaker 2>They never speak to me again.

1:54:58.520 --> 1:55:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, I'll just talk one Henley's story. They

1:55:03.720 --> 1:55:08.520
<v Speaker 1>had these shows before a COVID at Dodger Stadium, and

1:55:08.560 --> 1:55:10.840
<v Speaker 1>then on the East Coast they called it the Classic

1:55:10.960 --> 1:55:14.320
<v Speaker 1>one or some whatever, and that was the first time

1:55:15.040 --> 1:55:18.840
<v Speaker 1>that the Eagles were out with Vince Gill and they

1:55:18.880 --> 1:55:22.640
<v Speaker 1>were great. Oh, I remember that, okay. And then I

1:55:22.720 --> 1:55:24.640
<v Speaker 1>in the next day, because there's a two day fair.

1:55:24.680 --> 1:55:28.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking to Irving and I said, what did Don

1:55:28.280 --> 1:55:30.720
<v Speaker 1>have to say, because you and me both know Don's

1:55:30.760 --> 1:55:37.480
<v Speaker 1>a perfectionist, and he said, Don said that the monitor

1:55:37.600 --> 1:55:42.280
<v Speaker 1>mix wasn't perfect and the horns were too aloud on

1:55:42.360 --> 1:55:46.880
<v Speaker 1>a specific song. And I was very close. There's fifty

1:55:46.920 --> 1:55:50.640
<v Speaker 1>thousand people there, and I could hear it a little bit.

1:55:51.840 --> 1:55:53.800
<v Speaker 1>So I say to Irving, I say, you know, I

1:55:53.960 --> 1:55:58.160
<v Speaker 1>heard that a little bit. I don't think anybody would notice.

1:55:58.720 --> 1:56:03.920
<v Speaker 1>And he said, those little tiny things what make the

1:56:03.960 --> 1:56:07.880
<v Speaker 1>difference between good and great? What makes it to like

1:56:07.920 --> 1:56:11.120
<v Speaker 1>it average? To it really touches you. And I'm telling

1:56:11.160 --> 1:56:16.120
<v Speaker 1>the story years later because yes, as my psychiatrist says,

1:56:16.160 --> 1:56:20.120
<v Speaker 1>sometimes you change one thing and the whole picture changes.

1:56:21.520 --> 1:56:24.440
<v Speaker 2>And you know what that particularly pertains to is one

1:56:24.520 --> 1:56:27.360
<v Speaker 2>note out of tune in the chorus is somebody in

1:56:27.400 --> 1:56:31.440
<v Speaker 2>the business, here's this one, and the whole vocal is attitude.

1:56:31.600 --> 1:56:34.200
<v Speaker 2>She can't sing in tune. That came back to us

1:56:34.240 --> 1:56:36.520
<v Speaker 2>any number of times, just one note. And when we

1:56:36.800 --> 1:56:40.480
<v Speaker 2>went to doing autotune, well, when we went when we

1:56:40.600 --> 1:56:42.600
<v Speaker 2>learned how to do autitude, well all you had to

1:56:42.680 --> 1:56:48.440
<v Speaker 2>do was fix that one note flawlessly invisible weaving, and

1:56:48.480 --> 1:56:52.320
<v Speaker 2>you change everyone's mind altitude. But you know what what

1:56:52.400 --> 1:56:56.480
<v Speaker 2>this goes back to with Don is he was right, exactly,

1:56:56.600 --> 1:56:59.320
<v Speaker 2>He's right. I've done vocals vocals with Don where he

1:56:59.480 --> 1:57:03.360
<v Speaker 2>do a hard like a bizarre harmony that he would

1:57:03.360 --> 1:57:09.840
<v Speaker 2>write that just me, you know, like a Jimmy Webb harmony.

1:57:07.560 --> 1:57:07.640
<v Speaker 1>H.

1:57:09.560 --> 1:57:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Two's and nines and elevens and just open harmonies and

1:57:14.720 --> 1:57:17.760
<v Speaker 2>nail it, nail it. Maybe he say you to a

1:57:17.800 --> 1:57:22.080
<v Speaker 2>bass guitar and nail the pitch that you gotta respect,

1:57:22.120 --> 1:57:25.440
<v Speaker 2>that you gotta you gotta. I mean, Linda, is that

1:57:25.600 --> 1:57:26.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of opperate.

1:57:27.280 --> 1:57:31.480
<v Speaker 1>The other thing about it is most people don't care

1:57:31.680 --> 1:57:35.680
<v Speaker 1>that much. There's a complete opposite philosophy of let's do

1:57:35.760 --> 1:57:39.320
<v Speaker 1>it quick, down and dirty. Okay, but if you worry,

1:57:39.440 --> 1:57:42.600
<v Speaker 1>most people are not willing. The other thing is you

1:57:42.720 --> 1:57:48.280
<v Speaker 1>talked about Lowell George suffering. These people are suffering. For

1:57:48.400 --> 1:57:50.920
<v Speaker 1>their art. It's not like they're going home putting their

1:57:50.960 --> 1:57:53.920
<v Speaker 1>feet up on the couch and watching television and are happy.

1:57:54.480 --> 1:57:56.080
<v Speaker 1>They're consumed by this.

1:57:58.040 --> 1:58:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I would I would argue that Linda has

1:58:04.720 --> 1:58:08.520
<v Speaker 2>made the right choices. And when we started over see

1:58:08.600 --> 1:58:12.240
<v Speaker 2>all the early records, Peter and Linda would do only

1:58:12.320 --> 1:58:19.960
<v Speaker 2>live vocals. So part of why Linda kind of push

1:58:20.000 --> 1:58:22.400
<v Speaker 2>for me going back and doing your work was that

1:58:22.560 --> 1:58:27.920
<v Speaker 2>I had done you know, those earth, wind and fire vocals. Yeah,

1:58:28.840 --> 1:58:32.400
<v Speaker 2>they they they I directed pitch from the control room.

1:58:33.200 --> 1:58:37.760
<v Speaker 2>I did an overwhelming amount of work making those rand again.

1:58:38.400 --> 1:58:41.680
<v Speaker 2>They remember the guys, remember, so asked Larry Dunn when

1:58:41.680 --> 1:58:48.720
<v Speaker 2>you eventually interviewed Larry Dunn. And they didn't sing in

1:58:48.760 --> 1:58:51.760
<v Speaker 2>tune until we really got a hold on how to

1:58:51.800 --> 1:58:54.120
<v Speaker 2>direct their performance in the studio. And of course they're

1:58:54.160 --> 1:58:57.640
<v Speaker 2>brilliant performances. Don't get me wrong, I can't sing, but

1:58:57.760 --> 1:59:00.280
<v Speaker 2>why do I have it here? From pitch and for

1:59:00.360 --> 1:59:04.680
<v Speaker 2>harmonies and how to make harmony's buzz. So so getting

1:59:04.720 --> 1:59:07.560
<v Speaker 2>those right had a lot to do with that sound

1:59:07.560 --> 1:59:10.360
<v Speaker 2>of earth, which let me go way out the limb.

1:59:11.200 --> 1:59:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Change the sound of R and B markedly and quickly

1:59:16.240 --> 1:59:19.600
<v Speaker 2>R and B was one thing before we did Earth

1:59:19.640 --> 1:59:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Wind and Fire and another thing after not quickly. It

1:59:24.080 --> 1:59:25.640
<v Speaker 2>was a different game. You know.

1:59:26.680 --> 1:59:31.040
<v Speaker 1>One thing you did with Linda you cut a cover

1:59:31.960 --> 1:59:36.040
<v Speaker 1>of Tom Petty's The Waiting, which is just phenomenal.

1:59:37.440 --> 1:59:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, except that the background voices were wrong. Boy, I

1:59:40.960 --> 1:59:44.360
<v Speaker 2>tried to redo that. That's an example of getting wrong.

1:59:44.440 --> 1:59:48.160
<v Speaker 2>We got the background voices are so weighty that it

1:59:48.600 --> 1:59:52.880
<v Speaker 2>just it was never bright because that bright happy thing

1:59:53.040 --> 1:59:56.680
<v Speaker 2>had to play against the idea of the waiting is

1:59:56.720 --> 2:00:01.720
<v Speaker 2>the hardest part, and it should have been more iron Boy.

2:00:01.560 --> 2:00:03.280
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to read you this, but you've got a

2:00:03.320 --> 2:00:08.879
<v Speaker 1>great performance out of her. Okay, we're gonna leave it here, George.

2:00:09.520 --> 2:00:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I wish you luck with these performances. I say, I've

2:00:12.520 --> 2:00:15.440
<v Speaker 1>seen the Sizzle Wheel. The stories are great for those

2:00:15.480 --> 2:00:18.280
<v Speaker 1>people who you know, who are not insiders. This is

2:00:18.480 --> 2:00:21.520
<v Speaker 1>just gold. This is stuff he can't get anywhere else

2:00:21.920 --> 2:00:24.960
<v Speaker 1>that in most cases never been anywhere else.

2:00:25.320 --> 2:00:27.280
<v Speaker 2>And never will go unless we do it.

2:00:27.480 --> 2:00:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you know it's a tragic loss with al

2:00:31.760 --> 2:00:35.160
<v Speaker 1>and Ed, especially Ed long before his time, but a

2:00:35.280 --> 2:00:37.640
<v Speaker 1>character he was before.

2:00:38.600 --> 2:00:41.680
<v Speaker 2>But Bobby, you're so patient. Thank you so much for

2:00:41.680 --> 2:00:43.720
<v Speaker 2>getting me the opera. I wanted to talk to you forever,

2:00:44.040 --> 2:00:46.800
<v Speaker 2>back when I was talking about that thing that we knew,

2:00:46.840 --> 2:00:50.160
<v Speaker 2>that that Quincy did on the Brothers Johnson, I really

2:00:50.200 --> 2:00:53.000
<v Speaker 2>wanted to talk to you about all these experiences i'd had.

2:00:53.400 --> 2:00:57.360
<v Speaker 2>So you know, I'm sorry, I'm so long with I'm

2:00:57.440 --> 2:01:00.200
<v Speaker 2>so ash.

2:01:00.280 --> 2:01:03.640
<v Speaker 1>It is the spice of life. It's that's where that's

2:01:03.680 --> 2:01:06.200
<v Speaker 1>where the new guy is. That's that's where the good

2:01:06.240 --> 2:01:09.240
<v Speaker 1>stuff is. When people say I shouldn't go any deeper,

2:01:09.320 --> 2:01:11.480
<v Speaker 1>I should go, that's where the stuff you want to hear.

2:01:12.240 --> 2:01:15.760
<v Speaker 1>So there's still, you know, tons I want to hear,

2:01:15.920 --> 2:01:19.120
<v Speaker 1>but we're gonna leave it for today. George, thank you

2:01:19.200 --> 2:01:22.880
<v Speaker 1>for taking this time of my audience. Till next time.

2:01:23.480 --> 2:01:25.000
<v Speaker 1>This is Bob Left sets