WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Breathing the Pulse

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. Listener mail.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>And I am Joe McCormick. And it's Monday, the day

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<v Speaker 3>of each week that we read back messages from the

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<v Speaker 3>Stuff to Blow your Mind email address. If you're a

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<v Speaker 3>listener of the show and you've never gotten in touch before,

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<v Speaker 3>why not give it a try. You can email us

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<v Speaker 3>at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

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<v Speaker 3>We like all kinds of messages, especially if you have

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<v Speaker 3>feedback or something really interesting to add to a recent

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<v Speaker 3>episode of the show. Whatever you want to send, it's

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<v Speaker 3>all fair game. Contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

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<v Speaker 3>dot com. Let's see rob Oh, we've got a good

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<v Speaker 3>message to start things off today. That's say response to

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<v Speaker 3>one of your Monster Fact episodes. You want to do

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<v Speaker 3>this one from Constantinos?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Konstantinos writes in and says, good morning gents. On

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<v Speaker 2>your Monster Fact episode on the Hecatonkures, you mentioned the

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<v Speaker 2>artistic renditions of the Hecatonkures were hard to find, probably

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<v Speaker 2>because the Hecatonkures, they multi headed, multi limbed giant, is

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<v Speaker 2>such a weird and difficult creature to render. For those

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<v Speaker 2>of you out there, if you didn't listen to this

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<v Speaker 2>episode and and or are not familiar with this creature,

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<v Speaker 2>these were monsters that were created by Urunos along with

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<v Speaker 2>the Cyclopses, that were too horrible to look upon, so

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<v Speaker 2>they were cast away and imprisoned. Then Kronos comes to power,

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't really want anything to do with them either.

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<v Speaker 2>But when Zeus comes to power, he sees that they

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<v Speaker 2>have potential and he recruits, frees them, and recruits them

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<v Speaker 2>into his battle against the Titans. And they are briefly

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<v Speaker 2>described in very weird terms as having like fifty heads

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<v Speaker 2>and in all these arms one hundred hand ends. And

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<v Speaker 2>my comment was that, yeah, you don't see many illustrations

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<v Speaker 2>of these guys, or at least you don't see many

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<v Speaker 2>older illustrations of them. If you look around for image

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<v Speaker 2>of the images of them, you'll tend to find more

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<v Speaker 2>contemporary images of the Hecatonkrease, you know, things from the

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<v Speaker 2>age of surrealism and cosmic horror.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I feel like once you get more than

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<v Speaker 3>three or four of anything on a monster, it starts

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<v Speaker 3>getting kind of redundant and just hard to represent or

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<v Speaker 3>less appealing to represent. I think there's a similar problem

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<v Speaker 3>with that. There is some wild imagery in the Book

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<v Speaker 3>of Revelation, in the New Testament that you just don't

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<v Speaker 3>often see visually represented that much, and I think it's

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<v Speaker 3>because they've got they're described as having too many things there,

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<v Speaker 3>these creatures with like seven heads and seven wings and

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<v Speaker 3>seven crowns. You know, it's like seven is too many.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting when you look at

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<v Speaker 2>you know, multi headed beings and say Hindu iconography, where

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<v Speaker 2>you know, sometimes it'd be it's rather ingenious the way

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<v Speaker 2>that they're there's they sometimes will make even say an

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<v Speaker 2>odd number of heads fit on a particular entity, because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like hard coded, it's essential, it's sacred

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<v Speaker 2>that it is a certain number of heads. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I was, I was. I kept crunching over this thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, why don't we see more illustrations

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<v Speaker 2>of these clearly fascinating creatures from myth And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you think to a lot of through a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>art history, and there's this, you know, attempt to create

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<v Speaker 2>realistic bodies, be they animal bodies, human bodies, or some

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<v Speaker 2>synthesis of the two. But something like even something as

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<v Speaker 2>simple as say Goro from Mortal Kombat, there there are

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<v Speaker 2>certain problems in illustrating this creature because when you start

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<v Speaker 2>trying to figure out what the like what's the underlying skeleton,

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<v Speaker 2>like how does the muscle structure work? And it becomes

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<v Speaker 2>increasingly difficult I would imagine to incorporate actual physiological data

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<v Speaker 2>into a realistic depiction of said monster. And that's just

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<v Speaker 2>with with two extra arms. I'll imagine with ninety eight

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<v Speaker 2>of them.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you tried to draw a Goro skeleton, I imagine

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<v Speaker 3>you would. You might discover that you had an illusion

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<v Speaker 3>of explanatory depth there, like it seemed like it made

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<v Speaker 3>sense to you until you had to figure out where

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<v Speaker 3>all the bones go, and then you're like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>this isn't how skeletons work.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a great paper publically looked at on the

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<v Speaker 2>show years ago. I'd have to have to dig this up,

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<v Speaker 2>but somebody had put together a paper about how a

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<v Speaker 2>centaur might work, trying to figure out like how the

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<v Speaker 2>circulatory system would work, and I think I think they

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<v Speaker 2>One of the things that they argued is like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to need two hearts to run this thing

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<v Speaker 2>and so forth. So it's an interesting exercise at times

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<v Speaker 2>as well, but maybe it's a little more interesting when

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<v Speaker 2>there are fewer variables to have to consider.

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<v Speaker 3>Sorry, I actually did just google Goro skeleton and it's

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<v Speaker 3>real funny.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, some of the later games they incorporate

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<v Speaker 2>a Goro skeleton in there because there's all sorts of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, fatalities and whatnot that occurs where you see

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<v Speaker 2>the skeleton and it always looks really dumb, like it's like, oh, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this wasn't thought out too much. Anyway, The email continues

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<v Speaker 2>here back when Disney made fun movies. I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>a matter of opinion. I think Disney still makes some

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<v Speaker 2>fun news. I watched the animated Hercules once worked over

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<v Speaker 2>twelve hundred times with my kids. In the opening musical number,

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<v Speaker 2>The Gospel Truth, there is a heavily stylized rendering of

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<v Speaker 2>the Titano Maki the War with the Titans. Among the

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<v Speaker 2>Titans silhouettes, there is a stylized two headed giant that

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<v Speaker 2>I always thought was a simplified image of one of

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<v Speaker 2>the Hecatonkreas. The movie is actually subtly quite sophisticated in

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<v Speaker 2>his portrayal of Greek mythology, and I do think the

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<v Speaker 2>image here was intentional. It is also contextually consistent with

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<v Speaker 2>the theme. I don't think that there is any other

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<v Speaker 2>polycephalic monster that participated in the Tautana monkey that could

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<v Speaker 2>have inspired this image. So there you go, a modern

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<v Speaker 2>Hecatonkari hiding in plain sight in American pop culture. And

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<v Speaker 2>he included an image from this so we didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>to actually pull up the movie and start watching it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we see a creature with two heads in this styling,

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<v Speaker 2>normal number of limbs. It's monstrous. Yeah, I can only

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<v Speaker 2>imagine that this was inspired by these creatures, though clearly

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<v Speaker 2>if they had worked out any additional limbs or heads,

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<v Speaker 2>they left that on the cutting room floor.

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<v Speaker 3>It's been a long time since I saw the Disney Hercules,

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<v Speaker 3>but I remember it actually having a pretty seeming to

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<v Speaker 3>have a pretty clever incorporation of the real Greek myth themes.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know that I've ever seen it. I think

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<v Speaker 2>my son watched it once and he was too pick

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<v Speaker 2>He was like, this is not accurate, this is not

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<v Speaker 2>mythologically sound, and so you know, if he's not into it,

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<v Speaker 2>I was certainly not going to go out and watch it,

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<v Speaker 2>but I don't know. You know a lot of plenty

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<v Speaker 2>of people grew up with this movie and it's got

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<v Speaker 2>a pretty deep cast. I mean, you have ripped torn

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<v Speaker 2>as Zeus. How you go wrong with that?

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<v Speaker 3>Cannot beat that? That is perfect the Man who Fell

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<v Speaker 3>to Earth.

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<v Speaker 2>Indeed, anyway, thank you for writing in that Monster Fact episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I did put a call out. It's like, if you

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<v Speaker 2>were familiar with any additional images of the Hecatonkaris, especially

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<v Speaker 2>ones from throughout art history, you know, much older images

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<v Speaker 2>right in because I would love to be corrected on this.

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<v Speaker 2>I would love for someone to point out, actually, you're

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<v Speaker 2>missing some key images from ancient Greece or ancient Rome

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<v Speaker 2>or or medieval iconography. You know. I would love to

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<v Speaker 2>see that if it exists, but I just can't couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>find it anywhere.

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<v Speaker 3>M okay. Next message concern earns the uh oh the

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<v Speaker 3>episode that I did while you were out rob about

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<v Speaker 3>Ambergrease with our friends Annie and Lauren from the Saverer podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>If you haven't heard that episode, yet, this was this

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<v Speaker 3>is a couple weeks ago now, Yeah, I guess so.

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<v Speaker 3>But the episode was titled I believe a delicacy from

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<v Speaker 3>realms of Insufferable Feater after a quote that is used

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<v Speaker 3>in Moby Dick to describe where the Ambergrease comes from.

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<v Speaker 3>So this message is from our h all Right, says,

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<v Speaker 3>enjoying the Ambergresse episode. Well listening, I recalled where I

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<v Speaker 3>first learned about Ambergrease, in the eighth volume of Donald

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<v Speaker 3>Soball's Encyclopedia Brown series. You know, I had awareness of

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<v Speaker 3>these books when I was a kid. Friends of mine

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<v Speaker 3>read them, but I never actually read one, and I

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<v Speaker 3>feel like I kind of missed out now.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I haven't thought about the name Encyclopedia Brown

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<v Speaker 2>in a very long time. I don't think I ever

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<v Speaker 2>read any of them. But yeah, like you, I remember

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<v Speaker 2>seeing them being passed around. I remember it being in

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<v Speaker 2>the mix.

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<v Speaker 3>My impression was it was like Sherlock Holmes for kids

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<v Speaker 3>or something. Anyway, so Rh continues, If memory serves, one

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<v Speaker 3>of Brown's classmates found a mysterious blob of something and

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<v Speaker 3>sought his encyclopedic encyclopedic mind. I guess Encyclopedia Brown's encyclopedic mind.

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<v Speaker 3>I wonder if kids read these anymore? Dad, what's an Encyclopedia.

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<v Speaker 3>These books were great encouragement for great schoolers to be

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<v Speaker 3>syllogistic thinkers using deductive reasoning. I hope they are still

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<v Speaker 3>in heavy demand at the old Scholastic Book Fair. Keep

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<v Speaker 3>up the great work, rh PS. Repo Man would be

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<v Speaker 3>a great weird house cinema candidate. Yeah, wow, I haven't

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<v Speaker 3>seen Repo Man in a long long time, but I

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<v Speaker 3>remember that one being very weird and very fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've never seen it actually, but it's come up

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<v Speaker 2>on the show before just because of some of the

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<v Speaker 2>connections that are press there. But yeah, I mean it's

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<v Speaker 2>it has a strong cult following. It's it's definitely one

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<v Speaker 2>that's been on the list.

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<v Speaker 3>It's got Harry Dean Stanton. So that's that alone is

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<v Speaker 3>going to get you part of the way there. Seal

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<v Speaker 3>of quality.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Now on the Scholastic Book Fair questions in Encyclopedia Brown,

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<v Speaker 2>I have reviewed materials from various Scholastic Book Fairs over

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<v Speaker 2>the years here and I have to say I do

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<v Speaker 2>not remember seeing Encyclopedia Brown on the list. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>kids these days have some amazing choices in books. Far,

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<v Speaker 2>They're not having to read Stephen King like I did.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. I mean I didn't just read Stephen King.

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<v Speaker 2>I also had I had some age appropriate books that

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<v Speaker 2>I read as well. But there are so many more

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<v Speaker 2>age appropriate books covering all sorts of cool topics. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>just speaking of mythodology from earlier, Like, there's so many

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<v Speaker 2>wonderful books based on various world mythologies out there, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>fictional books that use mythology as the basis, And a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these are written by people whose heritage, whose

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<v Speaker 2>country of origin lines up with said mythology. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's really cool.

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<v Speaker 3>Mm yeah. I mean, I guess I will at some

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<v Speaker 3>point soon become acquainted with what the kids are reading

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<v Speaker 3>these days. But uh yeah, I don't know though. As

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<v Speaker 3>I said, I like, I never read these books either.

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<v Speaker 3>I am curious about what RH brings up, like a

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<v Speaker 3>would kids today even still be acquainted with the idea

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<v Speaker 3>of encyclopedia, like with the I don't know what's the

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<v Speaker 3>equivalent concept now, it's just like Facebook misinformation Brown.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Wikipedia, Brown, That's that's what it would be.

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<v Speaker 3>Misleading TikTok video Brown.

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<v Speaker 1>M M.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, This next one comes to us from Michael,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is really in regard to our episode on

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<v Speaker 2>the illusion of control. Hello again from Tasmania. I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>bit late listening to this one, but I just wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to let Rob know that there is nothing abnormal about

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<v Speaker 2>clicking the button of your key fob three or more

0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.360
<v Speaker 2>times to make sure your car locked properly. But if

0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.319
<v Speaker 2>you can't quite hear the central locking mechanism or one

0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.760
<v Speaker 2>of the doors slash or the boot is ajar. I

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<v Speaker 2>am compelled to do mine at least three times before

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<v Speaker 2>I walk away, and then maybe a couple of more

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<v Speaker 2>times as I start to get out of range. Thank

0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.960
<v Speaker 2>you for keeping the show running all this time. I

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<v Speaker 2>have been listening for around ten years and would feel

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<v Speaker 2>a little lost without the hundreds of conversations at work

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<v Speaker 2>and home. Your podcast prompts me to have warm regards Michael.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Michael. This is a wonderfully mail to get

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<v Speaker 3>about what's normal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, three is good. I feel a little guilty if

0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.640
<v Speaker 2>I do five, but I've but three three feels appropriate.

0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm a little antsy if I do less than three.

0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:38.720
<v Speaker 3>What if five is not enough?

0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Five is enough? I mean five again. They're deities in

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.840
<v Speaker 2>various traditions that have five heads. Five five.

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.320
<v Speaker 3>As a nice ring to it, you gotta click lock

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.920
<v Speaker 3>on your car once for each of the beasts seven heads,

0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.760
<v Speaker 3>and then once for each of its ten horns. Okay,

0:12:55.800 --> 0:13:04.600
<v Speaker 3>this next message comes from Robin. Robin says, Hi, Rob, Joe,

0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.640
<v Speaker 3>and JJ. The recent listener mail talking about responses to

0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.240
<v Speaker 3>the illusion of control episodes got me thinking down a

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.800
<v Speaker 3>related train of thought, illusion of control and magical thinking,

0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.600
<v Speaker 3>perhaps being more of a nature of grade than of

0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 3>kind or contingent on a model of belief. As Joe

0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 3>was musing, brought up some concepts to illustrate. The following

0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.920
<v Speaker 3>is a real life example. Perhaps we've all had this

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.199
<v Speaker 3>kind of experience, or perhaps it's just me. Say you're

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.600
<v Speaker 3>walking down the path late in the day and you

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 3>notice strangely that overhead pedestrian lights seem to be turning

0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.520
<v Speaker 3>on or flickering on and off as you come near them.

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.800
<v Speaker 3>This happens enough in a short span that you get

0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:51.120
<v Speaker 3>that spooky magical thinking mode activated in your brain. Lights

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 3>turning on around me. I am an electromagnetic god. Rationally,

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.199
<v Speaker 3>you know nothing spooky is happening, and whatever is happening,

0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.560
<v Speaker 3>you simply don't understand it yet. As it happens. In

0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 3>this case, it was likely some sort of timed event,

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 3>whether by internal clock software or perhaps light levels, that

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:13.280
<v Speaker 3>triggered multiple lights turning on around the same time. You know, Robin,

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.600
<v Speaker 3>I seemed to have vague memories years ago of something

0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 3>that was like street lights near my house that had

0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 3>some kind of that had some kind of daylight sensor,

0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 3>or something in my friend's car would make them turn

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 3>off at night as he drove underneath them. I think

0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.600
<v Speaker 3>it was like the way it reflected the light back

0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.440
<v Speaker 3>or something. Robin goes on. An event like this and

0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:38.000
<v Speaker 3>the resulting thoughts make me wonder if, even with no rational,

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 3>thoughtful belief in magical thinking, it might be a kind

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 3>of itch that's just nice to scratch once in a while,

0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.520
<v Speaker 3>to almost pretend to yourself that you believe it. Like

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 3>experiencing a good story, it just soothed something in our

0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.440
<v Speaker 3>base makeup long since baked in by evolution and culture.

0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.400
<v Speaker 3>Simply put, it feels good to engage in some magical thinking,

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 3>even if you don't actually believe in it. Thank you,

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.080
<v Speaker 3>as ever for the work you put into the excellent

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 3>content you deliver. Cheers Robin, Well, thank you, Robin. Yeah,

0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 3>I certainly think that's totally plausible. Maybe it's just there's

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.280
<v Speaker 3>some kind of itch, psychological itch that it scratches to

0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 3>imagine that you have, you know, extra normal powers that

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 3>you you know, can affect things in ways beyond the

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:27.120
<v Speaker 3>causative mechanisms normally available to you. And if that's true,

0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 3>I guess one thing it makes me think about is like,

0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.880
<v Speaker 3>why that would be like? For example, one reason I

0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:39.160
<v Speaker 3>think it probably feels good to experience a fictional story

0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 3>like you were talking about in the email, is that

0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:48.119
<v Speaker 3>a fictional story simulates real life situations of gaining useful information,

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 3>such as gaining social information about acquaintances through gossip, or

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 3>gaining information about how social situations, you know, difficult social

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 3>situations play out, maybe gaining survival information from a story

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 3>of someone overcoming adversity or danger. But of course, because

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.240
<v Speaker 3>the fictional story is fictional, it can be crafted to

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 3>be like unrealistically juicy and rich with the most exciting

0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 3>and salient kinds of details that these real life narratives

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.240
<v Speaker 3>could ever contain, you know. And so if that's the case,

0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 3>and if magical thinking does in fact cause pleasure because

0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 3>it scratches some kind of similarly deep rooted itch. I

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 3>wonder what that itch is like. Could it be something like,

0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, the fact that encouraging you to think what

0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 3>you would do if you had more power than you

0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.360
<v Speaker 3>actually have is useful because it it, you know, makes

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.080
<v Speaker 3>you think through things in a way that will will

0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 3>be useful pre planning if you actually do gain more

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.400
<v Speaker 3>realistic power than you have presently. I don't know.

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's interesting to think about, and such fictions are

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.280
<v Speaker 2>always going to be popular. This all reminds me of

0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.720
<v Speaker 2>a of a game that we will playfully do in

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 2>the car when usually when it's just me and my son,

0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.880
<v Speaker 2>where I guess you could call it turn green now,

0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 2>where we're at a stop light. We'll try and time

0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 2>it so that you know, when one of us goes,

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.479
<v Speaker 2>we'll sort of take turn saying turn green now, and

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 2>then you know, we don't actually think we're turning the

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.760
<v Speaker 2>changing the light or anything. But it's kind of satisfying

0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.600
<v Speaker 2>when you do occasionally hit it right on the nose

0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.640
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, ah, I did it. My powers are unequaled.

0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, that's good. I mean, I guess that is

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 3>actually someonet equivalent to being pleased with yourself. When you

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.920
<v Speaker 3>hit a good dice roll, it's like it wasn't actually

0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.159
<v Speaker 3>skill but it feels like it. Oh, I don't know,

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 3>now that I think about it, I guess the timing

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 3>the green light probably is more skill based than a

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.879
<v Speaker 3>dice roll, right, it's not totally random. You're like getting

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 3>a feel for how long it usually takes.

0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, and you can also check out what the

0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.040
<v Speaker 2>crosswalk signs are doing. You count If you can see

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.120
<v Speaker 2>the countdown, you can really cheap and then there's there's

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.240
<v Speaker 2>absolutely little luck involved. You can get it right down

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:07.679
<v Speaker 2>to the wire, but you don't always have those to

0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 2>go off of.

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 3>That's a great point. But yeah, so your your turn

0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.320
<v Speaker 3>green game is actually mostly skill based, I would say.

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right. This next one comes to us from Peter, Hi, Robert,

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.879
<v Speaker 2>and Joe. I found your episodes on the illusion of

0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.919
<v Speaker 2>control most interesting. While I consider myself rational and scientifically minded,

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.480
<v Speaker 2>I have realized that I indeed have this bias to

0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 2>a degree, despite my understanding of odds and probability. When

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I play games, especially involving dice, I have a belief

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.480
<v Speaker 2>that I will be lucky. I often roll lucky in

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>pressure situations. Of course, I have probably not paid as

0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.920
<v Speaker 2>much attention to the unlucky roles. Yeah, this is, of course,

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:50.920
<v Speaker 2>of course, key.

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.160
<v Speaker 3>Remember the hits, forget the misses.

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I guess it depends on what

0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of person you are. You know, if you focus

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>more on the negatives, then yeah, you're gonna be like,

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.760
<v Speaker 2>something's wrong with this with these dice, or something's wrong

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.720
<v Speaker 2>with this random number generator in this video game or

0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, phone game or what have it. And if

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:12.720
<v Speaker 2>you're the other way around, then yeah, you're gonna skew

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 2>the other direction. Anyway, they continued. This all probably became

0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.199
<v Speaker 2>reinforced with a childhood event. While playing board games with

0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.040
<v Speaker 2>some friends, I made a challenge to roll one, two, three, four,

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.760
<v Speaker 2>five six in sequence while passing the die to different people.

0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.960
<v Speaker 2>I began by calling out one and then proceeding to

0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 2>roll a one on a six sided die. I passed

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 2>it to a friend, who called out two and rolled

0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 2>a two. The challenge continued so forth, and we actually

0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.080
<v Speaker 2>rolled one, two, three, four, five six in sequence by

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.640
<v Speaker 2>different people. We did it on the first try. Now

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 2>I understand that the different people didn't really affect the odds,

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 2>but it blew us away. I calculated the odds, which

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.919
<v Speaker 2>came to point zero zero two one four percent, or

0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.120
<v Speaker 2>one in forty six thousand, six hundred and fifty six.

0:19:58.640 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 3>That sounds pretty cool, Peter.

0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 2>This experience, although founded on randomness and basic probability, at

0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.399
<v Speaker 2>least subconsciously impacts my feelings, my feeling that I can

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 2>roll lucky and call out dice rolls, although I reserve

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 2>it for crucial situations. Note, I believe it only really

0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.399
<v Speaker 2>works with physical dice rather than video game rng's or

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 2>random number generators. I know it doesn't make rational sense,

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.720
<v Speaker 2>but I can't shake the belief that there may be

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 2>something more to it, my weird tale of illusion of control.

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Cheers Peter.

0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, thanks Peter. And yet this is great. I do

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 3>think our minds work this way. And in fact, there

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.280
<v Speaker 3>was some research we talked about in the series exactly

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:42.240
<v Speaker 3>along these lines that like the research about the early

0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:46.639
<v Speaker 3>success emphasis increasing our illusions of controls, Like if you

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 3>have an early winning streak at some kind of game

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.560
<v Speaker 3>of chance, you are more inclined to think after that

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.080
<v Speaker 3>that you have control over a random process, and that

0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 3>seems to perhaps be operating with you. You had a really

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 3>salient early lucky streak of roles, and as you say,

0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 3>it's like hard to shake the feeling that there's something

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:07.320
<v Speaker 3>going on.

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Now. The other possibility is that Peter is simply the

0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:10.880
<v Speaker 2>chosen one.

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 3>That's right, Yes, he did see the mouse in the

0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:17.159
<v Speaker 3>second moon, and now the spice is guiding him. This

0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:21.200
<v Speaker 3>is also just a great example of realizing how our

0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:25.800
<v Speaker 3>intuitions can be misleading about the probability of events, because

0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.120
<v Speaker 3>you take, even if we assume that Peter the numbers

0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.080
<v Speaker 3>you give or write about this being an event that's

0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.680
<v Speaker 3>like one in forty six, six hundred and fifty six

0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:39.320
<v Speaker 3>chance of happening, you still you'd say, Okay, that seems

0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.560
<v Speaker 3>very unlikely. But then you would have to multiply that

0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.120
<v Speaker 3>by like the number of times in the world that

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 3>people around the world try to do something like this,

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 3>which I imagine, given all the time that people sit

0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.639
<v Speaker 3>around playing with dice, is actually quite a lot. So like,

0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 3>given all of those chances to have hits, you will

0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.840
<v Speaker 3>have stories like this where people have a very unlikely

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.359
<v Speaker 3>series of roles. Because people are just playing around with

0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.400
<v Speaker 3>dice all the time, there are a lot of chances

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:06.159
<v Speaker 3>to make it happen.

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean we often can We can think

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 2>to those various runs we've had or our parties have

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:15.520
<v Speaker 2>had in Dungeons and Dragons where it's like like three

0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.520
<v Speaker 2>twenties in a row, you know, three natural twenties, or

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 2>or the other end of the spectrum, you know multiple

0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:27.920
<v Speaker 2>natural ones, or multiple like you low scoring roles, And yeah,

0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.000
<v Speaker 2>it's the extremes that stand out to us.

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:31.879
<v Speaker 3>There are a lot of roles in each game. There

0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:33.639
<v Speaker 3>are a lot of people out there gaming. If you

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:35.480
<v Speaker 3>know a lot of people who do game, you probably

0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.680
<v Speaker 3>know somebody who had at some point a really unlikely streak.

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I did, we mention. I don't know if we

0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.560
<v Speaker 2>mentioned this before, but it always kind of I always

0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.399
<v Speaker 2>get a little judge when I see someone at at

0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.359
<v Speaker 2>a gaming table just rolling the dice over and over again,

0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.600
<v Speaker 2>out of any necessity to do so, just to see

0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 2>what they get. Yea, because part of my irrational brain

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.760
<v Speaker 2>is like, like, you're using up your twenties. Man. You know,

0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.080
<v Speaker 2>it's one thing if you're rolling ones on that, but

0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.159
<v Speaker 2>I just just saw you roll like an eighteen. That's

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>an eighteen you won't roll later because you just rolled

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:09.520
<v Speaker 2>it now. And that's silly.

0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:11.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, it also makes me think when I see

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:13.439
<v Speaker 3>somebody doing that at the table, I think, are you

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.360
<v Speaker 3>being opportunistic? Like you're just kind of rolling and then

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.640
<v Speaker 3>like you might try to claim that most recent role

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:22.040
<v Speaker 3>if it was good and your turn has come up.

0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.400
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean. I mean there are gaming

0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 2>systems where you get to like, you know, store dice

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:33.359
<v Speaker 2>rolls for later, but most D twenty games are not

0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:37.639
<v Speaker 2>don't work like that. You know. Irrationality in the face

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.600
<v Speaker 2>of actual statistics is such an interesting concept and something

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I kept thinking about during this this that these episodes,

0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.440
<v Speaker 2>and something that I think about too sometimes when when

0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm dealing with anxious thoughts and I have to share

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.920
<v Speaker 2>this one bit that came up in my reading of

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 2>the book Dead House Gates. This is book two of

0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:01.960
<v Speaker 2>the malasone book of the Fallen by Steven Ericson. This

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 2>is like, you know, a high fantasy adventure stuff. But

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.439
<v Speaker 2>there's one character who has a fear of tunnels. And

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.800
<v Speaker 2>there's just one little bit in the book goes as

0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:16.960
<v Speaker 2>follows quote he hated tunnels. No, they terrified him. There

0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>was nothing rational in it. Wrong Again, tunnels collapse, people

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:27.240
<v Speaker 2>get buried alive, all perfectly reasonable, possible, probable, inevitable, And

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.600
<v Speaker 2>I just love this one little bit. It's like, yes,

0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.560
<v Speaker 2>that is exactly the progression that your mind can go

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:37.800
<v Speaker 2>through when you're anxiously considering something like that, Like I

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be worried about this, but wait, it has happened,

0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.719
<v Speaker 2>can happen, could happen, will happen.

0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:47.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes, It's so easy to jump from possible to probable

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:49.919
<v Speaker 3>and then yeah, yeah, all right.

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Before we close here, I want to throw out one

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:54.360
<v Speaker 2>quick note about Weird House Cinema. On Friday, we did

0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:57.600
<v Speaker 2>part one of our look at David Lynch's nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 2>four adaptation of Doune, and this Friday, if everything goes

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<v Speaker 2>according to plan, we'll be finishing that up with a

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<v Speaker 2>part two where we look at the rest of that movie.

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<v Speaker 2>And I just want to throw this out there. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>if you have any thoughts about David Lynch's Dune, about

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<v Speaker 2>the New Dune films, and you want to write in

0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:19.359
<v Speaker 2>and chat with us about it, you want to have

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<v Speaker 2>it come up on the Listener Mail episodes, please do so,

0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:26.040
<v Speaker 2>because we always have a lot of fun with this.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, we just had a coworker text us on

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<v Speaker 2>a group text asking us how do they get off

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<v Speaker 2>of the sandworms after they're done writing them? Good question,

0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:40.199
<v Speaker 2>it's a great question. The short answer is you're supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to write them to exhaustion and then you get off.

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<v Speaker 2>But I love questions like this.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if that answers it.

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<v Speaker 2>There are additional follow up questions that are very valid.

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<v Speaker 2>I mentioned this to my wife and she's like, well, what, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you do if you're going a shorter distance?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the answer is you're supposed to time

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<v Speaker 2>your distances appropriately, you know, based on the size of

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<v Speaker 2>the worm you snag and so forth. But yeah, there

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<v Speaker 2>are a number of follow up questions to this that

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<v Speaker 2>are valid, and there are not necessarily answers for the sandworm.

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<v Speaker 3>Is a is a train ride not an uber ride?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean you're you're attaching yourself to a force

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<v Speaker 2>of nature. Uh when you you ride ride the sandworm?

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<v Speaker 2>When you ride the worm? So uh, you know, strap in.

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<v Speaker 3>I will, I will be sure to uh, I think so. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>next week, I'm sure there will be lots of dune talk.

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<v Speaker 3>Send in, send in your dune talk.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. Just a reminder that we're primarily a science podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>with our Tuesday and Thursday episodes being our core episodes,

0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 2>but Monday is our listener mail time. That's when we

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:49.760
<v Speaker 2>UH have a look through the mail bag and UH

0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:53.399
<v Speaker 2>and respond to various messages from you the listener, so

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:58.240
<v Speaker 2>keep them coming. Uh listener mail regarding past episodes, current episodes,

0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and potential future episodes of anything we put together.

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<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

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<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:09.960
<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:15.080
<v Speaker 3>you can email us at contact at stuffdblow your Mind

0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:22.160
<v Speaker 3>dot com.

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