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Speaker 2: All right, guys, Welcome back, e y L Hometown Heroes
Speaker 2: editions right for sure, for sure for sure. So we
Speaker 2: are in d C right now. Just finished up crazy
Speaker 2: crazy event we had top go up, got like two
Speaker 2: hundred people there. It was crazy.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Somebody said they were like yo, man, this is crazy.
Speaker 4: Everybody I follow on social media in this room right now,
Speaker 4: how y'all do this?
Speaker 5: Shout out?
Speaker 2: Shout out to Shout out to everybody that came to
Speaker 2: the event. Shout out to our god Sharani for.
Speaker 3: Sure, Capital Capital, Capital Event.
Speaker 5: Group, Capital Events Group.
Speaker 3: Shout out to the boy Trani he is. He's amazing man.
Speaker 4: So if you're in d C and you need an
Speaker 4: event plan or curated, get the contact. Follow him on Instagram.
Speaker 4: I'm sure we'll put a post up about it. You
Speaker 4: took care of us man. DC would not be the
Speaker 4: same without him here.
Speaker 2: Thank you for the hospitality, bro, appreciate it. And what's coy?
Speaker 2: Tom's coy for Sure Networking Power Network and Atlanta You're
Speaker 2: next January twenty fifth, January twenty sixth.
Speaker 5: We're gonna take over the whole city. We're gonna do.
Speaker 2: A big, big, big, big big. You can't play around
Speaker 2: with Atlanta. Yeah, facts the fact.
Speaker 4: Every time we say Atlanta, if you know, you know, man,
Speaker 4: shout out to the great city of Atlanta.
Speaker 2: Can't wait to touch the town. We're gonna be releasing
Speaker 2: details soon. Details might have already been released by this
Speaker 2: episode comes out, but we're gonna yeah, we're gonna do
Speaker 2: it really really big. So we have a dope episode
Speaker 2: played today and it is Yes, hometown Heroes, even though
Speaker 2: we're in d C. It's not a DC hometown hero,
Speaker 2: but it's a yeah, it's a Milwaukee, Wisconsin hometown hero
Speaker 2: that lives in DC and Milwaukee.
Speaker 5: So my man Brandon Rule.
Speaker 2: It was interesting because like, I think you had the
Speaker 2: article on we Buy Black and it went viral and
Speaker 2: then like Troy Troy sent it to me, and then
Speaker 2: somebody else sent it to me and then but I
Speaker 2: didn't read it in full transparency because he sends me
Speaker 2: like seven articles a day. But like by the time
Speaker 2: the third person read it sent it to me, I
Speaker 2: read it, I'm like, yo, we should probably interview. He's
Speaker 2: like yeah, I sent it to you two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: So I'm like so, and I hit you up like
Speaker 2: are you interested in coming? Like yeah, somebody actually just
Speaker 2: told me about your Yeah.
Speaker 6: He was like, Yo, this is.
Speaker 4: Like one of the quickest turnarounds. Yeah yeah, Like two
Speaker 4: weeks ago. I was like, Yo, this guy's dope. A
Speaker 4: man came from Detroit hit me like yo, just guys hope.
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, I just read about him and then
Speaker 4: like the next week he was like, Yo, he's gonna
Speaker 4: come on.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, this is great.
Speaker 2: It was easy one, two three. So Brandon, Brandon's dope.
Speaker 2: He's thirty one years old and he's a We talked
Speaker 2: about real estate a lot. Most of the time from
Speaker 2: our podcast is real Estate Investors, which is dope, wholesaling, buying,
Speaker 2: flip stuff like that. But he's a developer, right, and
Speaker 2: he's young. He's thirty one years old, and he most
Speaker 2: of his developments are in uh Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he
Speaker 2: has forty million dollars of affordable housing currently under his
Speaker 2: belt as far as development, and then one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty million dollars in the pipeline. And yeah, for sure,
Speaker 2: it just got awarded a huge forty one million dollars.
Speaker 7: Forty one million for the first phase for the first
Speaker 7: fall in the second.
Speaker 5: And that's gonna be for a grocery store.
Speaker 6: The first thing.
Speaker 7: You're gonna do thousand, score thirty thousand square for a
Speaker 7: grocery store with one hundred.
Speaker 6: And fifty apartments in the parking grash. Yeah parks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is gonna be a high level conversation.
Speaker 6: It's gonna be get in the ways if y'all want to.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So, first and foremost, thank you, Thank you for
Speaker 7: having me.
Speaker 5: I appreciate it, appreciate it, appreciate it, appreciate you.
Speaker 2: So all right, so before we before we even get
Speaker 2: into the nitty gritty of what you're doing, how did
Speaker 2: you get started? It's an interesting story because if people
Speaker 2: don't know who the legend peoples are, and that's unfortunate
Speaker 2: that it's it's a really unfortunate situation if you think
Speaker 2: about it, because it's like everybody knows whose Lebron is right,
Speaker 2: everybody knows whose Lil Wayne is right. But this guy
Speaker 2: has definitely more money a little way, not shut the toms, no,
Speaker 2: no disrespect, but probably like almost the same amount of
Speaker 2: money and Lebron maybe more money than Lebron, right, Like
Speaker 2: he's on his way close to being a billionaire, right,
Speaker 2: And he's black developer from DC, from DC, and not
Speaker 2: a lot of people are really familiar with him. So
Speaker 2: he kind of I bring him up because he kind
Speaker 2: of he's the start of your real estate journey, right
Speaker 2: and you see, at least in DC for sure. So yeah,
Speaker 2: what's your what's your path in real estate, and what's
Speaker 2: your path to coming to d C from Milwaukee?
Speaker 7: For sure, I'll just start from the beginning for real
Speaker 7: so from Milwaukee. But I was actually born in Los Angeles, California,
Speaker 7: So I was born in LA And in nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 7: I was in the earthquake, the North Is earthquake. At
Speaker 7: the time, it was the worst natural disaster and financial
Speaker 7: worst natural disaster financially in American history, so over a
Speaker 7: billion dollars worth of damages, one of that being my home.
Speaker 7: So we lost everything, slept outside for a few days,
Speaker 7: remember vaguely like being outside of the Walmart and just
Speaker 7: not having any resources. The highways were broken, everything. So
Speaker 7: my parents are high school sweethearts from Chicago. My dad
Speaker 7: was like, I ain't with this, We're going back. So
Speaker 7: my grandfather was living in Milwaukee at the time. We
Speaker 7: ended up moving to Milwaukee into his attic as we
Speaker 7: got back on their feet. A couple months later, rented
Speaker 7: the house and then moved forward. So from that point forward,
Speaker 7: I grew up in Milwaukee. And if anyone knows anything
Speaker 7: about Milwaukee's actually the worst place for black people in
Speaker 7: America right now, Google it. It'll pop up in many articles,
Speaker 7: many reports.
Speaker 3: I saw a statistic.
Speaker 4: It was like, specifically Madison with six percent of the
Speaker 4: population is black, but fifty percent of the people incarcerated
Speaker 4: or black.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, he's crazy easy. Yeah, Madison is ridiculous too.
Speaker 7: Raight saying is ridiculous too. Milwaukee is actually closer to
Speaker 7: forty percent black. But we have national problems, but just
Speaker 7: not national resource. Very similar to a Detroit, very similar
Speaker 7: to a Baltimore. But no one's really looking there. You
Speaker 7: don't hear about black folks from Milwaukee.
Speaker 6: Black people don't leave. It's just a thing. Average.
Speaker 7: I think media income in Milwaukee for a black person
Speaker 7: is twenty eight thousand dollars.
Speaker 6: A black family twenty one thousand dollars family like a family.
Speaker 7: Of four, just a family period, a black family, let's
Speaker 7: say two parent family three to four is not always
Speaker 7: two parents, but twenty eight thousand dollars is an average
Speaker 7: for a family in Milwaukee. And that's very much so
Speaker 7: with me, my friends, my family, everybody. That's my roots,
Speaker 7: that's who I am, that's where I'm from.
Speaker 6: But I needed to break that. So I went to school.
Speaker 7: All of my all of my family were influenced by
Speaker 7: my grandfather who was a very successful street pharmacist.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I the language yet that which is important.
Speaker 4: It's important that we're gonna file that where we had
Speaker 4: returning citizens.
Speaker 7: Yeah, for sure, that's going to that same the China citizens.
Speaker 7: Any checked your needout. She actually was the first person
Speaker 7: I heard returning citizens. But yeah, so he was a
Speaker 7: street pharmacist and he influenced my entire family. He was
Speaker 7: an entrepreneur. He was really you know, it was the
Speaker 7: first millionaire in the family. By the time I came,
Speaker 7: he got hit with the Rica Law and we didn't
Speaker 7: have any money again, so I didn't really have that benefit.
Speaker 6: But I say that to say.
Speaker 7: I was the one that wanted to change the trajectory
Speaker 7: of the entire family. So I went to school, did
Speaker 7: it a different way. I was always like the chosen one.
Speaker 7: It's like, okay, cool, you got it. Went out to school,
Speaker 7: grew up in the Milwaukee public school system, was actually
Speaker 7: one of the worst in the country as well. Wear
Speaker 7: that on my sleeve because you know, you can come
Speaker 7: from any environment and make it right the fact. So
Speaker 7: when went on to school, went on the Marque University
Speaker 7: study economics, mining in sociology, So I think that kind
Speaker 7: of gave me the background that I needed in real
Speaker 7: estate economics, understanding capitalism. A lot of people think money
Speaker 7: is bad when it.
Speaker 6: Really is just a tool.
Speaker 7: It's a tool to leverage in a way that you
Speaker 7: do any other tool. Right, So study economics, but also
Speaker 7: study sociology. How do people fit within this? How does
Speaker 7: the people from the hood fit within this capitalistic society
Speaker 7: that we live within.
Speaker 6: So that was my foundation.
Speaker 7: Then my senior year, junior, senior year, fourth year, I
Speaker 7: took a program called the ACRE program, which stands for
Speaker 7: Associates and Commercial real Estate, and that pretty much exposed
Speaker 7: me to what commercial real estate development was because like
Speaker 7: many other folks, I hear real estate and like, do
Speaker 7: you think of a broker, You think of a realtor,
Speaker 7: But there's so many other things when it comes to
Speaker 7: real estate. You like so many professions. So when you
Speaker 7: think about a development process, a civil engineer, environmental engineer,
Speaker 7: geotechnical engineer, an architect, a contractor, a developer, a lender,
Speaker 7: there's so many different avenues that you can get into.
Speaker 7: So that program exposed me to that, and then it's like, okay, well,
Speaker 7: developers make a lot of money. I wanted financial freedom
Speaker 7: and I wanted some flexibility.
Speaker 6: So I was like, okay, well.
Speaker 7: I think I want to do this, and then that's
Speaker 7: when I started on my real estate path. While doing that,
Speaker 7: I got my hands on a book called The People's Principles,
Speaker 7: which was written by Don Peebles. Don Peebles, billionaire black
Speaker 7: developer from DC. That's where it started, then moved on
Speaker 7: to Miami and went to Vegas and now it's based
Speaker 7: in New York.
Speaker 6: And read this book. Really was inspired by.
Speaker 7: The really technical things that he said within it. It's like,
Speaker 7: this is how I became what I became. And I
Speaker 7: was like, oh, this is great. Okay, well I'm a
Speaker 7: follow a similar path which is doing my way. So
Speaker 7: in twenty seventeen, I got my twenty sixteen, I got
Speaker 7: my first low income housing tax credit. So affordable housing
Speaker 7: developments in the past were financed through Section eight. So
Speaker 7: if you think about a Section eight property, Kabrini Greens
Speaker 7: in Chicago. You know some of these really large berry
Speaker 7: farms in DC, really large complexes three four hundred units
Speaker 7: and really just clusters of poverty. That's how they were
Speaker 7: financing it. But now they use a tool called Section
Speaker 7: forty two IRIS Code, which is a tax credit. So
Speaker 7: we are given a tax credit that we sell to
Speaker 7: an investor and use that to finance the project.
Speaker 2: Can you can you explain that a little bit, because yeah,
Speaker 2: we Section eight. I think most people know what sectionate is, right,
Speaker 2: where it's like it's government and they subsidize housing, right,
Speaker 2: and but section that you don't have to live in
Speaker 2: the projects, like you can have a house.
Speaker 6: So there's two different types.
Speaker 7: There's Section eight project based vouchures, so projects got the
Speaker 7: Section eight assistance, but then they were also like people
Speaker 7: based boxing, right where you can.
Speaker 2: Take that you go into like a house, and they
Speaker 2: pay the landlord. So what's the new way?
Speaker 7: Section forty two is the primary tool for affordable housing.
Speaker 7: There's still some Section eight, there's still some vouchures, but
Speaker 7: Section forty two just really high level. If you think
Speaker 7: about a building, and you think about developing a building,
Speaker 7: it may cost forty million dollars to develop a building, right.
Speaker 6: Tip.
Speaker 7: In order to fund that building, you need rents that'll
Speaker 7: pay you enough to then get a bank to give
Speaker 7: you a loan, So you need a construction loan, and
Speaker 7: then you need permanent financing. So in order to get
Speaker 7: the construction loan, one of the threshold items is, hey,
Speaker 7: how much is the loan to value of this projected property.
Speaker 6: So if your.
Speaker 7: Value based on rents being at fifteen hundred dollars a month,
Speaker 7: it equates to forty million dollars.
Speaker 6: You can then build.
Speaker 3: Who's doing the assessment of how much each.
Speaker 6: One is worth? Each unit? The market kind of determines that.
Speaker 7: So drilling deeper into that, let's say fifteen hundred per
Speaker 7: equates to forty million dollars. Let's say now you're in
Speaker 7: an area that rents can only be seven hundred and
Speaker 7: fifty dollars per People still need to live, but we
Speaker 7: still need additional housing. In order to build that, the
Speaker 7: government created a tax credit that subsidized developers for the difference.
Speaker 7: So if the seven fifty gives me twenty million, I
Speaker 7: effectively are gonna get I'm gonna get twenty million in
Speaker 7: a tax credit to then make it balance.
Speaker 6: And make it work.
Speaker 5: They so they'll pay you the developer.
Speaker 2: They pay the project, they say, the project. They pay,
Speaker 2: not you personally, but they fund the project.
Speaker 7: And they allocate a tax credit to the developer to
Speaker 7: sell on behalf of.
Speaker 4: The project, so they pay that the person paid seven
Speaker 4: hundred and one thousand dollars if it was seventeen hundred
Speaker 4: and one thousand dollars is being paid.
Speaker 7: Through through the tax credit upfront, and in exchange for
Speaker 7: the tax credit, you have to restrict the rents for
Speaker 7: a certain amount of time fifteen years, thirty years, et cetera.
Speaker 7: And the rent is like market based. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 7: based on the area median income. So that's really like
Speaker 7: how they determine it. And they have different thresholds. So
Speaker 7: a thirty percent unit is like very low income, a
Speaker 7: fifty percent unit and a sixty percent unit is what we.
Speaker 6: Will call workforce or affordable housing.
Speaker 7: And then you have eighty percent units as well that
Speaker 7: can be financed through this tax credit. And that's based
Speaker 7: on So take the one hundred thousand dollars area media
Speaker 7: income in DC, UH fifty percent unit is fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 7: If a person makes fifty thousand dollars in DC, they
Speaker 7: can qualify for affordable housing under this threshold. You take
Speaker 7: thirty percent of that income divided bout twelve months. That's
Speaker 7: how you come out to the rent amount that you
Speaker 7: can pay okay.
Speaker 5: So okay, yeah, so it's a little deep. Sorry, No,
Speaker 5: that's that's right, up eyol. That's what we do. That's
Speaker 5: the whole. It's right, A lot of numbers right in
Speaker 5: line with our content. So you meet you meet Don.
Speaker 5: People's right, yeah, and how does that go?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 7: So twenty seventeen, I jumped out. He was speaking at
Speaker 7: a conference in DC, and I was like, I have
Speaker 7: to meet this guy. So I still by the door,
Speaker 7: very to nice said, I'm an ambitious guy by nature,
Speaker 7: a type personality. If I want time, I'm gonna go
Speaker 7: get it. And I wanted to meet him, so I
Speaker 7: went introduced myself. I just received that tax credit. That's
Speaker 7: why I wanted to get a story, just receive the
Speaker 7: tax credit. I was about to develop my first project.
Speaker 7: Hey Don, what's up branding? I got my first project in,
Speaker 7: I got a couple more of my pipeline. Would love
Speaker 7: to connect. And he was impressed by what I was
Speaker 7: doing because my age. I think I was twenty six
Speaker 7: twenty seven at the time, and his first project I
Speaker 7: was twenty seven. He was awarded his first project at
Speaker 7: twenty seven as well. So I was on that path.
Speaker 7: It's like Okay, yeah, this is the only black billionaire
Speaker 7: doing what I'm doing.
Speaker 6: I need to meet him.
Speaker 7: So we met, had a phone call about a month later,
Speaker 7: and the biggest takeaway I took from that phone call
Speaker 7: was he said, work on larger deals. So at that
Speaker 7: time I did was twelve and a half million. I
Speaker 7: had another deal that was about fourteen million, and I
Speaker 7: had another deal that was like seven million. The fourteen
Speaker 7: million dollar deal was a market rate. It wasn't an
Speaker 7: affordable housit development actually never went through. I'll talk on
Speaker 7: that too, But I needed to raise about one and
Speaker 7: a half from equity investors in order to finance the project.
Speaker 7: And you just, you know, go out to folks, get
Speaker 7: one hundred thousand here, two fifty there, you know, et cetera,
Speaker 7: et cetera, and he pray much just put it in
Speaker 7: perspective for me, said, I just raised five hundred million
Speaker 7: dollars in New York and this is the easiest money
Speaker 7: ever raise. Because institutional capital, the demand on that is
Speaker 7: so it's so much so, it's so much less than
Speaker 7: the demand on every day individuals and investments. Because you
Speaker 7: can invest in stocks, you can invest in bonds, you
Speaker 7: can invest in a different real estate project, you can
Speaker 7: invest in your kids college fund. Individuals have so many options,
Speaker 7: but institutional capital needs places to put this money. So
Speaker 7: he told me to work on larger deals, and I said,
Speaker 7: about three months later I moved to DC.
Speaker 2: That reminds me of three stories, So I'll take it
Speaker 2: one by one. Well, first off, you know how one
Speaker 2: of the people that really got don people's into the game,
Speaker 2: Barry and Barry for sure. You know that legend, DC
Speaker 2: legend rest in peace. So that's one story. The second
Speaker 2: story is that that also that what you said reminds me.
Speaker 2: I watched the interview with Magic Johnson and called a
Speaker 2: shout out to both of them, and Magic told Maverick
Speaker 2: he said, the same amount of time that it takes
Speaker 2: to do a deal for one million, it takes to
Speaker 2: do one hundred million, So do one hundred million because.
Speaker 7: It's the same energy. It's same energy. It's not like
Speaker 7: it's not you have to do additional energy. It's the
Speaker 7: same energy output. It's just you're focusing your energy on
Speaker 7: the small guy level. You can focus your energy on big,
Speaker 7: or you can focus your ines on small. The third
Speaker 7: one was Byron Allen. He was on a breakfast club,
Speaker 7: and he just said what you said. As far as
Speaker 7: like what, especially in institutions, a lot of times they
Speaker 7: have a problem where they have to they have to
Speaker 7: spend money.
Speaker 6: They have to they have to spend money.
Speaker 2: They raised it. They have exactly there looking for. They
Speaker 2: have whole teams devoted to look for opportunities, which means
Speaker 2: they have whole teams devoted to look to say where
Speaker 2: can I give money away to different deals? And how
Speaker 2: can I position this Because I have five hundred million
Speaker 2: dollars at the sothing.
Speaker 7: It was just five hundred so it's real raise your
Speaker 7: hand please, So, but you have to understand the key
Speaker 7: to that. You have to understand that language. It's a
Speaker 7: language of finance. That's the way I look at it.
Speaker 7: It's no different from English verse Spanish. We all know English,
Speaker 7: some people know Spanish, some people know finance.
Speaker 6: It's just a language.
Speaker 7: And if you understand the language, and if you understand
Speaker 7: what they are saying and what they are looking for,
Speaker 7: you can make it work.
Speaker 2: So how did you I'm interested to notice because you
Speaker 2: started in the game very young twenty early twenties and
Speaker 2: twenty three. You know humble beginnings, like your family was
Speaker 2: in real estate. So how do you get your first deal?
Speaker 2: How do you learn the language? How do you get
Speaker 2: your first deal in real estate as a developer? Like
Speaker 2: how does that? Can you walk me through that process,
Speaker 2: like your very first deal, Like how does that happen?
Speaker 7: So my first deal was actually a four unit investment.
Speaker 7: It was a real estate investment type. Okay, it was
Speaker 7: a hud home on the north west side of Milwaukee
Speaker 7: by Hoole. Yeah, I just sold it about a year
Speaker 7: and a half ago. I bought that when I was
Speaker 7: twenty three. So let me rewind. Three and a half
Speaker 7: percent down it was only eighty five thousand dollars and
Speaker 7: I sawed for like one sixty So that was like,
Speaker 7: well played different, you know, it makes sense. So that
Speaker 7: was my entry entry point, but rewinding. So once I
Speaker 7: finished the acre program, I'm like, Okay, this real estate
Speaker 7: thing is cool. I think I want to figure out
Speaker 7: how to be a developer. I spent a lot of
Speaker 7: time trying.
Speaker 6: To put the pieces of the puzzles together. So I
Speaker 6: started going to events.
Speaker 7: I went to a ton of conferences, a ton of seminars, gallas,
Speaker 7: all types of things. I was just searching for people
Speaker 7: and information and knowledge, and I equated it to like
Speaker 7: putting together a puzzle.
Speaker 6: Right, It's like, if this is the real estate.
Speaker 7: Puzzle, how do I find the pieces and then how
Speaker 7: do I put them together? So I met a guy
Speaker 7: by the name of Keith Broaden. No. First, I went
Speaker 7: to an awards bank Will called the Mandy Awards's Community
Speaker 7: Development Awards in the city of Milwaukee. I'm actually up
Speaker 7: for I'm a finalist of a real estate awards. O.
Speaker 5: So congratulations, thank you. I'm sure you'll win.
Speaker 6: Yeah, appreciated this episode put over the finish line. So yeah.
Speaker 7: I went to this awards banquet and I met a
Speaker 7: gentleman by the name of Wayman Winston Waymon Winston was
Speaker 7: the executive director of Weeda. Weeda is the housing authority
Speaker 7: that a ministers the longcome housing tax credits. So I
Speaker 7: was like, yeah, I want to be a developer, et cetera,
Speaker 7: et cetera. He was like, well, if you want to
Speaker 7: be a developer, come to this conference. This is the
Speaker 7: developers conference. It's going to be all developers. There's gonna
Speaker 7: be lenders, there's gonna be architects, syndicators, anyone that plays
Speaker 7: in this arena. In the State of Wisconsin will be
Speaker 7: here at the conference. Conference is like a couple of
Speaker 7: hundred dollars. I didn't have. It ended up getting sponsored somehow.
Speaker 7: I think I like figured out a way to fin
Speaker 7: my way up there. So you know, I threw on
Speaker 7: a suit. I had a little nappy frow at the time,
Speaker 7: and I just was meeting everyone I could meet, and
Speaker 7: I ran into this gentleman who I just saw.
Speaker 6: A few weeks ago. Keith brought next.
Speaker 7: He was working at Great Lakes Capital which is now
Speaker 7: call sing There their syndication firm. They raised fun and
Speaker 7: then the minister they pretty much purchased the tax credits
Speaker 7: on behalf of investors, and he gave me my first
Speaker 7: pro former. So a performer is essentially an Excel document
Speaker 7: that pretty much is the business plan for real estate development.
Speaker 6: And what that does.
Speaker 7: It allows you to understand how much this will cost
Speaker 7: to build and how it will perform over the next
Speaker 7: fifteen to thirty years. So he gave me this performer
Speaker 7: and I had no clue what it was. I wasn't
Speaker 7: really a finance I was an economics major, but I
Speaker 7: wasn't a math or finance guy really, So I was
Speaker 7: just diving in and I tried to figure it out.
Speaker 6: So I would like google every term. You know.
Speaker 7: Google university is a thing, YouTube university is a thing.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 7: I was googling every single term trying to understand.
Speaker 2: You know what else today eyl university.
Speaker 6: That's the thing you need. It's a real thing, okay,
Speaker 6: but even better you know, by us.
Speaker 7: So yeah, I was just googling all of the terms
Speaker 7: within this document and I just started to work in it.
Speaker 6: So I was working at the bank at the time.
Speaker 7: I was working at pen and C Bank as a
Speaker 7: personal banker and making twenty three thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 7: And I was like, man, I can't this is my life, Like,
Speaker 7: I'm not about to just be wearing these nice suits,
Speaker 7: getting up at six in the morning, get home at
Speaker 7: six pm.
Speaker 6: Doing this for the rest of my life. I can't
Speaker 6: do it.
Speaker 7: So I would then get off work and then go
Speaker 7: back to work from seven to midnight, seven to one,
Speaker 7: seven to two.
Speaker 6: Every single day.
Speaker 7: I was in that pro form of working for years, educating,
Speaker 7: educating myself in that no articles, pub no press, no publication,
Speaker 7: no payments, every single day I was working. So what
Speaker 7: then happened was I realized that I was only making
Speaker 7: about fifteen hundred after taxes per month. And then I
Speaker 7: came across this four unit that was eighty five thousand
Speaker 7: dollars in Milwaukee. In Milwaukee, so I put three and
Speaker 7: a half percent down. I was running out there. I
Speaker 7: think the rents were about six hundred apiece, maybe six
Speaker 7: twenty five, you know, do the math on that twenty
Speaker 7: four My mortgage was about one thousand, So I was
Speaker 7: clearing fourteen just off of this when I was only
Speaker 7: clearing fifteen at the bank. I quit my job the
Speaker 7: moment I bought the four unit. I couldn't quit before
Speaker 7: because I needed to show the income to.
Speaker 6: About a four yunit. But once I once I closed,
Speaker 6: I quit. I was out of there.
Speaker 7: That then gave me the freedom to dig deeper into
Speaker 7: this real estate thing. Now you spend in the entire time,
Speaker 7: all my time, energy and effort was going towards real
Speaker 7: estate development.
Speaker 6: Specifically. I knew investing was cool, but I.
Speaker 7: Wanted to figure out how to be a developer because
Speaker 7: the fees associated with it are great. You know, just
Speaker 7: to break it down, for real developer doesn't get a
Speaker 7: forty million dollar payment or anything like that. But you
Speaker 7: on the market right side, you may see three to
Speaker 7: six percent of the total costs. So if you're working
Speaker 7: on a one hundred million dollar deal, do the math.
Speaker 7: On the affordable side, you get about ten to fifteen
Speaker 7: percent tennis to see really on the total project costs.
Speaker 7: So you so so so if you do a forty
Speaker 7: million dollar deal, you get ten percent.
Speaker 5: That's four million dollars correct.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yes, to ten to fifteen percent depending on what.
Speaker 3: He took a ladder.
Speaker 7: Somewhere, don't load somewhere around, respected respect it. So so
Speaker 7: so to that point it was like, okay, let me
Speaker 7: figure out how to do this development thing. I worked
Speaker 7: in his model. Boom boom, boom bom. I saw the numbers.
Speaker 7: So I'm like, oh, that making some real life money
Speaker 7: in this thing. So figured it out, so I start working.
Speaker 7: I met with him again, showed him and it was terrible.
Speaker 7: He helped me met a consultant that does development consultant
Speaker 7: and she was actually CPA as well, Charlena Brown basedide
Speaker 7: of Atlanta. She helped me hone my skills when it
Speaker 7: came to my performer, my model. So what we did
Speaker 7: was just I was I would try to work in it.
Speaker 7: I would send it to her, she would edit it,
Speaker 7: send it back, and eventually I got good. It's like okay, yeah,
Speaker 7: I know how to do a project. So then I
Speaker 7: started looking for a project. So are you doing this
Speaker 7: on a platform? What's the Excel? Microsoft ex sale? That
Speaker 7: was on my computer? You could one hundred out a
Speaker 7: computer from best Buy, download ex sale and you working.
Speaker 6: That's it. That's it. You don't need any anything else.
Speaker 7: So I'm just teaching myself all the language, teaching myself
Speaker 7: how to do things.
Speaker 6: So I started swinging at projects and I was missing.
Speaker 6: But it was one.
Speaker 7: It was a city on RFP request for a proposal,
Speaker 7: very similar to the one that I just wanted Madison.
Speaker 6: That one.
Speaker 7: I ended up pitching it to a developer and I'm like, yo,
Speaker 7: let's co develop this project. Here's my model for it.
Speaker 7: Would you guys be willing to split the developer fee
Speaker 7: and the ownership?
Speaker 5: The model is?
Speaker 7: What's what's the model is another name for the pro former?
Speaker 5: My bad, what's the performer?
Speaker 7: The performer is the business plan for real estate development
Speaker 7: in the Excel.
Speaker 3: In my mind, I'm taking developer, performer.
Speaker 7: And model are They're the same thing? So I'm using
Speaker 7: them interchangeably. So it's like it's like the blueprint. It's
Speaker 7: the blueprint, the financial blueprint, financial blueprint for real estate development.
Speaker 4: How does developer do the physical blueprint as well? Or
Speaker 4: that's going to be somebody down the line with.
Speaker 7: We outsourced some Some development shops can have an architectural
Speaker 7: person on hand, but I outsource it.
Speaker 2: So all right, So you you study, you learn, you
Speaker 2: learn how to make a financial blueprint for a project
Speaker 2: like this is my vision, this is financially how it
Speaker 2: makes sense. You don't have any experience. So you go
Speaker 2: to another established developer. They've done it all, they've done
Speaker 2: it already, and you say, I already have the blueprint,
Speaker 2: let's work together, and this week is split.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So so now I'm creating value. That's the key to
Speaker 7: get any partnership. You have to create value for the
Speaker 7: other person. It's not about what you want, is what
Speaker 7: they want and how can you give it for them?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 7: So it's like, okay, I mean, I'm gonna give you
Speaker 7: all a real number. So I think that project was
Speaker 7: let's say ten million dollars. It was a ten million
Speaker 7: dollars deal. You know, nine was twelve percent So we
Speaker 7: was at one point two and I'm like, all right, well,
Speaker 7: can we go.
Speaker 6: Fifty to fifty on it? All right, let's have let's
Speaker 6: take a risk, let's let's apply for it.
Speaker 7: See if we get it. If so, let's trigger it out.
Speaker 7: If not, cool, keep it pushing. So I pitched it,
Speaker 7: and at that point I knew it's like, wait a minute,
Speaker 7: I just created six hundred thousand dollars just from my mind.
Speaker 6: With a developer that does this for real, so I
Speaker 6: cannot do it.
Speaker 7: I was probably like twenty four, twenty five maybe, so
Speaker 7: that was the first time I actually knew.
Speaker 6: Shortly thereafter I actually took a job. It was very intentional.
Speaker 3: So a twenty four you got the six hundred Nah.
Speaker 7: That never went through work, that never worked out, but
Speaker 7: they agreed to it. But they agreed to it, and
Speaker 7: that's all I needed to know that I can do possible.
Speaker 7: It was possible at that point. I'm here, I'm a developer.
Speaker 5: Now you can't.
Speaker 7: Ain't nobody taking this from me. So I ended up
Speaker 7: getting a job surely there after. I didn't get that
Speaker 7: money was running low. Yeah, I had the you know,
Speaker 7: four unit things like that. That was fine, but I
Speaker 7: got a job working at a cd OFFI a real job,
Speaker 7: A real job, Okay, yeah, real job. What's a cd
Speaker 7: A CD of FI is a community development financial institution.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, we we just learned about that. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Sorry about I'm I'm a slow learner.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I heard.
Speaker 6: There was a young lady.
Speaker 4: There was a young lady here was talking just about
Speaker 4: the CDFIs, right, so bright.
Speaker 7: Yeah, shout out to the bright woman. Uh so, yeah,
Speaker 7: I worked. I ended up getting a job. It was
Speaker 7: actually half time for two CDFIs. I was the only
Speaker 7: person in the country to do this. But I worked
Speaker 7: for Forward Community Investments. They were a mission based community
Speaker 7: lender that provided loans to small businesses and then in
Speaker 7: Community Reinvestment Fund. They were a national nonprofit that did
Speaker 7: the same thing in a different way. So one was
Speaker 7: a state based focused on Wisconsin. The other one was national,
Speaker 7: also targeting Milwaukee. So I worked at home. I worked remotely,
Speaker 7: so I was really more of a contractor for real.
Speaker 7: I worked remotely from home for both of these comes companies,
Speaker 7: really going out doing technical assistance with businesses and understanding
Speaker 7: what the gaps were that why aren't we giving this
Speaker 7: money out? Like I had access to one of them
Speaker 7: was from fifty thousand to five million dollars in lending.
Speaker 7: That was my lending capacity personally, I can like give
Speaker 7: that out to businesses.
Speaker 6: So I was like, oh, this is great.
Speaker 7: It was very much so aligned with my vision and
Speaker 7: my mission, and I was able to sit in on
Speaker 7: the credit committees of these different companies. So when it
Speaker 7: came to like applying for loans and applying for some
Speaker 7: of these things, I knew exactly what they were looking
Speaker 7: for because I was sitting in there.
Speaker 6: So I worked there for two years.
Speaker 3: Who what type of clientele or clients to what you're seeing?
Speaker 7: Primarily business? For Community Grein Investment CRF, it was business clients.
Speaker 7: So I was looking at bars, I was looking at pubs,
Speaker 7: I was looking at cleaning companies, I was looking at
Speaker 7: It was a full gamut. And then for community investments
Speaker 7: it was more so real estate base for real So.
Speaker 2: You was on the inside the of the institution and
Speaker 2: you you knew what they were looking for to lend money.
Speaker 2: You used that when you left to get them to
Speaker 2: lend you money because you alreadyknew what they were looking for.
Speaker 6: It didn't really work out that way. That was the idea.
Speaker 7: But now I know how all of the groups worked
Speaker 7: the same, So yeah, I used that same tactic to
Speaker 7: get all of the rest of it.
Speaker 2: What were they looking for, like, what made you attractive?
Speaker 2: Not you, I'm just saying, we'll make somebody attractive to somebody.
Speaker 7: Honestly, it's a huge gap. So I thought that I
Speaker 7: would be given out a ton of money. But and
Speaker 7: I had access to the capitol, but I couldn't give
Speaker 7: it out what they were looking for. It was a disconnect.
Speaker 7: It's like our people are here and their money is here.
Speaker 7: And I felt like it was my duty to kind
Speaker 7: of like bridge that gap. But that gap so they
Speaker 7: were looking for honestly, pretty traditional.
Speaker 6: Things, you know.
Speaker 7: It's like reserves, some serve some you know may or
Speaker 7: may not do a startup, so you might have to
Speaker 7: have some income. Collateral is the biggest thing in our community.
Speaker 7: That was that's the biggest guy. We don't have collateral.
Speaker 7: If you think about history, a lot of businesses were
Speaker 7: funded because people owned real estate. Right you were able
Speaker 7: to get business loans because you can put your house up. Millennials,
Speaker 7: we I'm a millennium, you know, so that is a challenge.
Speaker 7: That is a shift in the marketplace that I don't
Speaker 7: think has been identified yet. So we all of our
Speaker 7: people are like, yo, we don't.
Speaker 6: Have any money. We don't have any money, We don't
Speaker 6: have any money.
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Speaker 7: It's such an access to capital gap, which there is,
Speaker 7: but on the other side they're streaming, Oh, we have
Speaker 7: so much money and we can't deploy it. That's what
Speaker 7: happens every single time you talk to anyone in that industry,
Speaker 7: and that's what they're going to tell you.
Speaker 2: All right, all right that So now we're going to
Speaker 2: go into the next seven. We're going to talk about
Speaker 2: like your journey into developing, like how you find a
Speaker 2: deal like all of.
Speaker 5: The one O one on on the on the whole, Yeah,
Speaker 5: on the whole, on the whole deal.
Speaker 2: Okay, do that next, Yeah, let's break it down then
Speaker 2: all right, all right, so now we now we're going
Speaker 2: to ask a few questions that I think people will
Speaker 2: be interested in as far as you know. One thing
Speaker 2: with ey Ls, we like we talk about different topics
Speaker 2: that nobody really knows. Is like, don't really have an
Speaker 2: education all this stuff. So as a real estate developer, right,
Speaker 2: so you you do the financial blueprint, but now you
Speaker 2: actually have to develop it. But development costs a lot
Speaker 2: of money to scale these projects, right, so how like,
Speaker 2: how does that part of it work as far as
Speaker 2: the construction aspect of it and actually developed it?
Speaker 3: Because in my mind I'm thinking of development.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're making the financial blueprint, but I'm like, you're
Speaker 4: not even seeing a physical output before you start or
Speaker 4: do you know, like what you want this space to
Speaker 4: look like going in?
Speaker 6: Yeah? You create? You created it.
Speaker 7: So the developer is the one that creates the vision
Speaker 7: in his mind. Very similar to a director of a movie. Right, Okay,
Speaker 7: Like they don't they don't. They're not the actor, they're
Speaker 7: not the they're not the scriptwriter oftentimes, but they bring
Speaker 7: it all to fruition and this is the way that
Speaker 7: it needs to go. So a developer, let's rewind a
Speaker 7: little bit real estate development is a business process that
Speaker 7: takes land and you put real estate on it.
Speaker 6: So very simple. There go a little deeper.
Speaker 7: So I'm a commercial real estate developer, so I'm pretty
Speaker 7: much doing that at just a larger scale. And there's
Speaker 7: different sections of it, right, So I guess let's say
Speaker 7: break it down into three phases. There's a pre development
Speaker 7: phase where you do the design and you get the
Speaker 7: financials in order and you talk through some of those things.
Speaker 7: The second phase of the construction phase, to your point,
Speaker 7: that's when you go and you're actually building the project
Speaker 7: and you're managing the budget to make sure that this
Speaker 7: is on time and on budget, because if the cost
Speaker 7: of your development is more than what you anticipated, then
Speaker 7: when the recession hit, that's kind of what happened, Like
Speaker 7: you saw buildings that were halfway developed and people stepped
Speaker 7: away because there was not enough money to continue to
Speaker 7: the project, complete the project. And then the last phase
Speaker 7: is operation. It's a pre development, construction, and operation. A
Speaker 7: developer pretty much runs that entire phase from beginning to end.
Speaker 7: So let's break them down. Predevelopment phase you have I
Speaker 7: typically start off with zoning and entitlement. It's like Okay,
Speaker 7: I have a piece of land here. How large is
Speaker 7: Let's say it's an acre of land. Okay, based on
Speaker 7: this acre, what is it zone?
Speaker 6: For? What can I do here?
Speaker 7: My base is typically multifamily, so it's like, okay, how
Speaker 7: many units can I put on here? Let's say you
Speaker 7: know an acre is forty three thousand square feet Depending
Speaker 7: on where you are, they based zoning off of Florida
Speaker 7: area ratio, So this thing called far. So let's say
Speaker 7: it's two times far, so you can put if it's
Speaker 7: an FAR two, you can put a eight six thousand
Speaker 7: square foot building on this parcel. And then you reverse
Speaker 7: engineer how many units you can fit there, so eighty
Speaker 7: two thousand square feet depending on the unit side, if
Speaker 7: they're one in two bedrooms, you.
Speaker 6: May be able to get ninety units. If they're you know, three.
Speaker 7: Four bedrooms, you may be able to get sixty units.
Speaker 7: And then based on the program, you create a vision
Speaker 7: around what is attainable for the site. So I start
Speaker 7: with the zoning and it's like okay, yeah, what can
Speaker 7: I do? And then based on the zoning, I create
Speaker 7: a financial model and dig a little deeper. And then
Speaker 7: that's when I reach out to consultants to do some
Speaker 7: of the other work. It's like, hey, architects, I want
Speaker 7: to put seventy units right here?
Speaker 6: Can I do that? What does that look like? You know?
Speaker 6: Can I do underground parking here? Can I?
Speaker 7: Can I have surface parking? How many stars can I fit?
Speaker 7: And that kind of changes the iteration of that financial
Speaker 7: model that I was working on. Okay, let me change
Speaker 7: itself a little.
Speaker 3: How long does that first that preprocess.
Speaker 6: Take for you? No time for real at this point.
Speaker 6: A couple of hours hours, A couple of hours.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So that's and then the third second, third one is
Speaker 2: the actual development right construction.
Speaker 6: Second one is construction. So we're not even in construction yet.
Speaker 7: So that's that's early, early, initial, just pre and then
Speaker 7: what you do is like okay, I think I'm onto something.
Speaker 7: And then you go get the site under control, so
Speaker 7: you reach out to the land own er. Is it available?
Speaker 7: Is it private? Is it public? Is it If it's
Speaker 7: public land? Sometime they have RFPs and that's what I
Speaker 7: was awarded with the forty one million. I was awarded
Speaker 7: that land to now develop.
Speaker 6: It by the state or the city.
Speaker 7: That was city owned, but sometimes it's state owned. Sometimes
Speaker 7: it's city, sometime it's county.
Speaker 6: It varies.
Speaker 7: So that was public, that's a public private partnership in
Speaker 7: that way. But sometimes it's private. So when it's private land,
Speaker 7: that's when you it's a little more difficult. Ah. Yeah,
Speaker 7: it's a little more difficult because people value their land
Speaker 7: the way that they value their land. It's no different
Speaker 7: from a property. If you own a home, you may
Speaker 7: feel like your home is worth five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 7: The appraisal may say your home is worth two hundred
Speaker 7: or one hundred. So when you go to that individual
Speaker 7: and say, hey, this is my plan for this site,
Speaker 7: y'all have to have some level of common ground to
Speaker 7: make sure that this works because if they want five
Speaker 7: times your number, it's not feasible you move on that
Speaker 7: vision can't come to fruition because this is not a roadblock.
Speaker 7: And then once once you then okay, yeah, I think
Speaker 7: this will work around this price, I'll give you X
Speaker 7: for it.
Speaker 6: You want X fo it? Okay. What's the timing in DC?
Speaker 7: I mean typically you gotta have a thirty day close,
Speaker 7: sixty day close, like a quick no contingencies, no nothing.
Speaker 7: In Wisconsin, I could you know sometime do a year
Speaker 7: and a half without having to close on the financing.
Speaker 7: And by close, I mean actually pay for the land.
Speaker 7: You pay for the land typically when your financial at
Speaker 7: construction start. So when you close on all your finances,
Speaker 7: I got every all my ducks in the row. It
Speaker 7: all comes to the table at the same time, and
Speaker 7: it goes out to the various parties, one of those
Speaker 7: parties being the land owner. They could walk away. I
Speaker 7: now purchase it. I now can start construction, which is
Speaker 7: now phase two.
Speaker 4: So when you're in that phase and you try to
Speaker 4: get the land, what's the bidding process?
Speaker 3: Right? So you wore rewarded, awarded, all warded to land,
Speaker 3: what kind of explained.
Speaker 6: What that means.
Speaker 3: But what's the process of bidding for it?
Speaker 6: Yep too. So on the private side, no process. It's
Speaker 6: just one to one. Can I buy this from you?
Speaker 6: Or no?
Speaker 7: And I've been told no because of my age and
Speaker 7: my color before, to be honest. But on the public side,
Speaker 7: they typically put out a list of priorities that they want.
Speaker 7: The most recent one, my eighty nine unit, was a
Speaker 7: public public partnership and they just wanted to redevelopment of
Speaker 7: a blighted site. It was half a mile away from
Speaker 7: where I was raised, and I wanted to develop it,
Speaker 7: so I put eighty nine units before the bahausand in
Speaker 7: my hood, that's what I did, and they agree with
Speaker 7: my plan. It wasn't very competitive and that was that.
Speaker 7: But there are other ones like the one in Madison,
Speaker 7: and I just won. It was very, very competitive. They
Speaker 7: had multiple rounds of RFPs. What's the RFP again, request
Speaker 7: for a proposal. So that's when the city says, hey,
Speaker 7: these these are our priorities for this site.
Speaker 6: We own in site. We don't want to own the site.
Speaker 7: Cities often don't want to own sites because they want
Speaker 7: to benefit from the tax revenue from it. It's not
Speaker 7: in their best interest to pay the upkeep. It's a
Speaker 7: lot of risk associated with owning land, so cities often
Speaker 7: try to partner and sell and you do things like that.
Speaker 7: So that this priority specifically, they wanted a grocery store.
Speaker 7: The site right next door is a pick and Save
Speaker 7: Roundings was just acquired by Kroger and they're shutting that
Speaker 7: Picking Saved down. So now this area is about to
Speaker 7: be a food desert. So the city was like, okay,
Speaker 7: in order for us to preserve some level of grocery
Speaker 7: in this area, we need to put out an RFP.
Speaker 7: So that was their number one priority or a grocery store.
Speaker 7: Second was affordable housing and some level of housing and density.
Speaker 7: So I put together the best plan to bring that
Speaker 7: grocery store in the quickest amount of time.
Speaker 2: So, all right, they need a grocery store. They are identified.
Speaker 2: They need a grocery store. While they just youach out
Speaker 2: to the grocery stores directly, why then they developer?
Speaker 6: They did.
Speaker 7: Grocery stores often don't develop their own land either, they least,
Speaker 7: you know, so a developer developer. A developer manages that process.
Speaker 7: Businesses don't typically manage that process. You know, if you
Speaker 7: think about Apple, Apple isn't going to like build their
Speaker 7: own headquarters. They're going to hire some consultants or a
Speaker 7: developer to build it for them. So that's an RFP
Speaker 7: can be in that way too. So that said, it's
Speaker 7: of interest for them to align themselves with a developer
Speaker 7: who has the capacity to do this because it's not
Speaker 7: something that just easily can be done, got it.
Speaker 6: They can't just do it.
Speaker 7: So phase two, the construction phase, can talk about that. Yeah, construction,
Speaker 7: So each each phase is a little less risky. So
Speaker 7: pre development phase is a ton of risk. I rewind
Speaker 7: a little bit, then I'll go into it. It's a
Speaker 7: ton of risk because you're paying a ton of consultants
Speaker 7: to do work. You're doing environmental assessments phase one, in
Speaker 7: the phase two ten that could be ten thousand dollars
Speaker 7: between the two. Environmental ass that when they checking the
Speaker 7: dirt to see and all that. Well, yeah, so environmental
Speaker 7: that's one where they're seeing if it's contaminated. Has it
Speaker 7: been uh, you know, was this a gas station historically?
Speaker 6: Is this up to code?
Speaker 7: Because you don't want those soils to rise and people
Speaker 7: get sick and die and all that stuff. So you
Speaker 7: pay for environmental consultants. You pay for civil consultants which
Speaker 7: put together the design of the building and make sure
Speaker 7: this is secure. Okay, architects design it, but the civil
Speaker 7: engineers are saying this will be sturdy for X amount
Speaker 7: of time, we won't have settlement, et cetera. And then
Speaker 7: you hire geotechnical consultants to test the soil and to
Speaker 7: see is the soil okay, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 7: So the soil is more so like for settlement, civil
Speaker 7: is self for structure and longevity and things like that.
Speaker 7: So all of those people you've got to hire prior
Speaker 7: to getting to construction. Who's that the developer is so
Speaker 7: yeah great, quest walk is uh yeah, but you can
Speaker 7: you can get once you have a plan together, you
Speaker 7: can get loans.
Speaker 6: In theory.
Speaker 7: They can get loans. We can't get loans. Really, they
Speaker 7: can get loans. So I partner with the people that
Speaker 7: can get the loans and try to I'll go into
Speaker 7: that in a second. But you pay for all of
Speaker 7: these consultants, even architects. All the architectural designs are pretty
Speaker 7: renderings and all that slice. Yeah, you know, that's a
Speaker 7: couple hundred thousand easy.
Speaker 2: So before you get to construction, are any of these
Speaker 2: RFPs or like, dude, does it ever come into play
Speaker 2: with the was it MWB minority women business? Is it?
Speaker 2: Because are they like do they have to have a
Speaker 2: certain amount of developments that are developed by minority developers?
Speaker 5: Is that case?
Speaker 6: Minority developers is not a thing.
Speaker 5: It's not a thing.
Speaker 7: It's not a minority contractors is a thing. Minority developers
Speaker 7: is not a thing. So I have to in my
Speaker 7: development counterparts. Yeah, that as I'm an anomaly for real.
Speaker 7: So I have to hire minority women veter and my
Speaker 7: colleagues have to do the same. My counterparts do same.
Speaker 7: We have to hire them the construction workers. Make sure
Speaker 7: that all of the people that are part of this
Speaker 7: team may be twenty.
Speaker 6: Of the total.
Speaker 7: The money that is allocated to the budget has to
Speaker 7: go towards these groups. But there's no structure for me,
Speaker 7: as a developer and being black, to benefit from that.
Speaker 6: Why not that's where the most money is.
Speaker 7: Has it ever been proposed or no, I've never heard
Speaker 7: of it. I'm sure it has. Historic black developers aren't
Speaker 7: a thing, not a lot of them. No, it's not
Speaker 7: a thing because historically banks. We all know about red lining.
Speaker 7: We all know about that. There's a book called The
Speaker 7: Color of Law. Talk about this before, but for people
Speaker 7: that don't know, color a law documented the government's effect
Speaker 7: on communities and the intentionality of segregation. So what they
Speaker 7: did was if a white developer even was developing something
Speaker 7: that allowed a black person to live in it, HUD
Speaker 7: would not ensure it, so the bank would not give along.
Speaker 7: So that was for a white developer. So imagine a
Speaker 7: black developer trying to develop something for black people. It
Speaker 7: wasn't possible. So the Marrion Berrys of the world, and
Speaker 7: just like H. J. Russell in Atlanta, the mayor of Atlanta,
Speaker 7: the mayor of d C reached out and used their
Speaker 7: political connections to bring these two people up H J.
Speaker 7: Russell in Atlanta down peoples in d C in order
Speaker 7: to create an economic engine in our community that allow
Speaker 7: for growth in a way that does not exist. So
Speaker 7: again that that's just not a thing at all, and
Speaker 7: hopefully it can become a thing. But there's not enough
Speaker 7: black developers. I mean, I'm at conferences all the time.
Speaker 7: I go to real estate meet ups and everything like that.
Speaker 7: But oftentimes it's like most folks are investors because it's
Speaker 7: all we know. Most of the developers I know aren't.
Speaker 7: They don't look like me. Sout out to keV Kevin
Speaker 7: noule bro mind. He's killing it in Milwaukee right now,
Speaker 7: absolutely killing it. He's a black developer that is doing
Speaker 7: his thing. A couple of folks out here in DC
Speaker 7: as well. Dr McKinney, I really respect Don Peeble's son
Speaker 7: is actually doing development out of DC as well. So
Speaker 7: there's some black developers like bubbling up.
Speaker 6: But yeah, it's just not.
Speaker 5: How important is political political collections connections.
Speaker 7: Depends on where you are. I was saying Wisconsin not
Speaker 7: as much. Wisconsin is a very objective state. If you
Speaker 7: are doing if you are checking these boxes, you can
Speaker 7: move forward in a place. Like other places, it's not
Speaker 7: that objective. It's a little more subjective. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 7: I think we were talking about the construction part real quick.
Speaker 7: So you start off trying to pre development risk. You
Speaker 7: pay for all of these consultants a couple hundred thousand,
Speaker 7: and then at the closing table. Benefit of getting to
Speaker 7: the closing table is that all that risk is wiped away,
Speaker 7: so it's all a part of development budget. Although you're
Speaker 7: paying for it before it happens. You get refunded once
Speaker 7: all your money comes in, So the three hundred thousand
Speaker 7: that you had out, the million dollars that you had out,
Speaker 7: all comes back right there. So that's a great day.
Speaker 7: And then what happens in a construction phase. You have
Speaker 7: to mitigate that risk because you know people may not
Speaker 7: come to work, or the cost of something may be
Speaker 7: more expensive, or the design wasn't you have to change
Speaker 7: the design up and things like that, So you have
Speaker 7: to look out for all of those things before you
Speaker 7: get under construction, because when that construction budget gets blown up,
Speaker 7: it's a real thing and the first thing that goes
Speaker 7: at that point is your developer fee.
Speaker 6: We have to pay for that.
Speaker 7: So we got to mitigate that risk because you can
Speaker 7: get a project done and not make nothing to that point.
Speaker 6: My first project, sixty.
Speaker 7: Unit fortyblehusand development twelve points six million dollars. I made
Speaker 7: thirty thousand dollars on Wow, three and a half years
Speaker 7: worth of work. I made thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 6: That was it.
Speaker 5: What kind of insurance do you have to have to
Speaker 5: be protected.
Speaker 7: During construction just as a development I'm like anything you said, like,
Speaker 7: you're on the hook, right, So I guess you don't
Speaker 7: want to have to always come out of your pocket
Speaker 7: if something happens to risky tech.
Speaker 5: So there's no insurance.
Speaker 7: No, it's not a thing now, it's just a risky tech.
Speaker 7: So that deal was twelve and a half million. My
Speaker 7: original development partner. So this is my first project, this
Speaker 7: one I got in twenty sixteen. My original development partners
Speaker 7: were fully integrated firms, so they did they did development, construction,
Speaker 7: and property management.
Speaker 6: They did it all.
Speaker 7: So I'm like, okay, bet let me partner with these guys,
Speaker 7: let me learn from their different entities. It's all one stop,
Speaker 7: and then we're gonna do it.
Speaker 6: Moving forward.
Speaker 7: Once we got the award, their board wasn't as comfortable
Speaker 7: with the original terms we agree to. So now you
Speaker 7: know based on so you have to make guarantees. You
Speaker 7: make financial guarantees for construction. I guarantee that this will
Speaker 7: be built, even though on my own die, and you
Speaker 7: have to spread the risk across a development profile and
Speaker 7: share that with partners. If they're making all the guarantees,
Speaker 7: they're taking all the money. So that's why we get
Speaker 7: boxed out too. Black folks typically don't have the capital
Speaker 7: to say, yeah, we can't make guarantee.
Speaker 5: Yeah I have.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm like you said that because I have
Speaker 2: a friend who a client, well, who's a developer in
Speaker 2: New York.
Speaker 5: He's black.
Speaker 2: He always tells me about these personal guarantees that he
Speaker 2: has to put up of like all this money and properties.
Speaker 2: Like whenever time they're doing a deal, and it's like
Speaker 2: him and his partner, they gotta do these personal lines
Speaker 2: of guarantees and all that stuff.
Speaker 6: Personal guarantee, personal guarantee.
Speaker 7: And if you don't have the bare minimum for the
Speaker 7: projects that I'm working on, you need a million dollars
Speaker 7: of liquidity like cash and five million dollars in networks
Speaker 7: to start the conversation. That's going to eliminate a lot
Speaker 7: of us. That's why you don't see black developers. That's
Speaker 7: the primary reason why you don't see black developers because
Speaker 7: you can't get a game, and then when you start
Speaker 7: to you get raped. It's like, okay, well you got
Speaker 7: to idea, you got a concept I want, you can
Speaker 7: get teen and then we just get used as brokers
Speaker 7: to find sites and so they can make more money.
Speaker 7: But I wasn't on that.
Speaker 6: I'm not on that.
Speaker 7: So I get the majority of my fees at this point,
Speaker 7: at least fifty one percent. I'm gonna get standing on it.
Speaker 6: On that.
Speaker 2: That's not so you say, I'm partnerships. So so you
Speaker 2: partner with a lot of people, Yeah, I have to
Speaker 2: so for a young cat or you're not even young cat,
Speaker 2: anybody just in general, because like you said, it's a
Speaker 2: lot of barriers to get in. Is that the best
Speaker 2: way to go about it is to kind of find
Speaker 2: somebody already that's successful and kind of work with them.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I get reached out to you all
Speaker 7: the time. I definitely I want to support everybody, but
Speaker 7: realistically I just can't.
Speaker 6: It's capacity think.
Speaker 7: So that said, I think the best way is to
Speaker 7: create value. You have to create value. If you're not
Speaker 7: creating value, then you're just there if you want to
Speaker 7: with me, just like if I want to work with them,
Speaker 7: is it worth my time to work with you?
Speaker 3: Not?
Speaker 6: If you bring anything to bring it, I can do
Speaker 6: it on my own.
Speaker 2: I tell people that all the time, you gotta it
Speaker 2: gotta be mutual, and it can't because that's more of
Speaker 2: a charity thing, right, It's like you through so much
Speaker 2: chat as.
Speaker 6: The time and a place for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, mentorship, charity. It's not a business partnership.
Speaker 2: Business partnership has it doesn't have to be equal, but
Speaker 2: you have to bring something, got to bring some value.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So if you can create value in real estate the
Speaker 7: way that I did it, I created the financial model,
Speaker 7: I created the vision, and I got the land in
Speaker 7: the contract. That's what that was my control. So if
Speaker 7: I pitched it to anybody, they can't just go get
Speaker 7: this land. I already got it so now it's like
Speaker 7: I have leverage. So if you, as a developer want
Speaker 7: to or aspiring developer want to take that strategy, go
Speaker 7: get some land on the contract, put a financial plan.
Speaker 7: That makes sense. I talked about language earlier. Showed me
Speaker 7: the language. This is the language that we speak right here.
Speaker 7: When you start speaking that language, we can partner with
Speaker 7: no problem.
Speaker 3: The last part that that property management piece. Do you
Speaker 3: have your own or you still partner with somebody.
Speaker 6: Most of my development partners out of their own shops.
Speaker 6: I don't have my own.
Speaker 7: It only makes sense when you have some of the units.
Speaker 7: You gotta scale. It's a scale thing. So when I
Speaker 7: get to, you know, a couple of thousand units, I
Speaker 7: probably start one.
Speaker 5: But right now now, all right, So in the last second,
Speaker 5: we're gonna talk about scaling.
Speaker 2: We're always gonna talk about a few other businesses that
Speaker 2: you got in the in the d m V, since
Speaker 2: we're in the d m V, so multiple streams of
Speaker 2: income for sure. All right, So in the last seme
Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about a few things. But first, what's
Speaker 2: talk about scaling Because obviously you've you've come a long way,
Speaker 2: but you're still young. So what's your what's your what's
Speaker 2: your vision, what's your plan, what's your what's your goals
Speaker 2: as far as scaling and moving forward into this new decade.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's real.
Speaker 7: I mean, at the end of the day, I'm an entrepreneur,
Speaker 7: so I think my profession is a real estate developer,
Speaker 7: but I'm really an entrepreneur. So scaling, I'm open to
Speaker 7: different concepts. One being uh said, I wasn't gonna say,
Speaker 7: but working on the real estate crowdfunding platform.
Speaker 6: I think that'll be my next big endeavor. That's probably
Speaker 6: lost early next year, So that's that's a goal, and
Speaker 6: that's a tech platform.
Speaker 7: So I plan to leverage tech to crowdfund money in
Speaker 7: real estate and then pour it back in our community
Speaker 7: in a way that doesn't currently exist. There's an access
Speaker 7: to capital challenge, and this is the way that I'm
Speaker 7: gonna fix it.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: So it's like that gap that you were saying that
Speaker 4: was there, Yeah, you would now season it dope.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's to go.
Speaker 7: That's part of it. Scaling specifically for real enterprises. My
Speaker 7: development company, we keep doing affordable housing primarily.
Speaker 6: That's my thing.
Speaker 7: I think it's a we need we need it everywhere
Speaker 7: and it'll always be a thing. So if I could
Speaker 7: do one or two deals in Wisconsin here, I think
Speaker 7: that's cool for now, and then working on some stuff
Speaker 7: in DC.
Speaker 6: Working on a.
Speaker 7: Platform, I guess not a platform, but it's an affordable
Speaker 7: housing initiative with a professor at the Georgetown Law called
Speaker 7: gay Bridge. So what we're doing is trying to identify
Speaker 7: five sites for us to develop in DC, Baltimore, and Philly.
Speaker 7: So for me, I think next year I'm going to
Speaker 7: be targeting, you know, four to five sites.
Speaker 6: In those areas.
Speaker 7: I have one in DC right now that I'm working
Speaker 7: on in Southwest DC one hundred and forty units or so,
Speaker 7: probably close to eighty million dollar development about twenty five
Speaker 7: thousand square feet.
Speaker 4: Are you bringing anybody with you as far as like
Speaker 4: a mentor or apprentice along the journey so they can.
Speaker 6: See what this is like?
Speaker 7: Yes or no, I'm mentored a ton of Milwaukee has
Speaker 7: probably the most black developers in the country.
Speaker 6: Wow, it's crazy. So I got some I got a OG.
Speaker 7: And then I got some young homies that are coming
Speaker 7: up to But in DC, I'm actually launching a platform
Speaker 7: or launching keeps saying platform launching an educational type of
Speaker 7: deal for a development program, development training program, and I'm
Speaker 7: actually gonna do it in partnership, probably with Georgetown, so
Speaker 7: that all launch next year as well. So I'm called
Speaker 7: that reinvest And you you have a you have a
Speaker 7: bar lounge in DC? Yeah, I saw on a on
Speaker 7: a bar lounge in DC?
Speaker 6: What's that?
Speaker 5: What's what's the deal with that?
Speaker 7: It's called the K's Bird open that, Like I said,
Speaker 7: I think I mentioned it earlier, like I used to
Speaker 7: fund bars and pubs and things like that, so I
Speaker 7: knew the finance of it. So I'm like, Oh, came
Speaker 7: across an opportunity a friend of mine, best friend in Milwaukee.
Speaker 7: He's a developer too, but he owns a spot in Milwaukee,
Speaker 7: so he was looking at opening one in DC. Got
Speaker 7: introduced to a broker. Broker reached out. I walked a
Speaker 7: site for him. It was first and Adams marking im
Speaker 7: like I ain't really feeling this, you shouldn't do it.
Speaker 7: I told him he shouldn't do it because he wanted
Speaker 7: to do it at first. Then identify the side in
Speaker 7: DuPont Circle, predominantly white area in DC, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 7: this would beat dope, Like it was a cool opportunity.
Speaker 7: So told him about it. Yo, I think I want
Speaker 7: to do this. You down, He had some things going
Speaker 7: on in Milwaukee that it needs to straighten out. He
Speaker 7: was like, YO, just take it around with it. So
Speaker 7: I said, bet went out created an equity pool because
Speaker 7: I practiced what I preached, Like, I literally am all
Speaker 7: about black wealth. That's that's who I am. I know
Speaker 7: I'm gonna be straight on the development side. I'm not
Speaker 7: worried about my finances. But if I can create opportunities
Speaker 7: for ownership for my people, I think I'm living in
Speaker 7: my purpose. So created an equity pool, brought in a
Speaker 7: bunch of owners.
Speaker 5: Equity pool just a bunch of people that just pulled
Speaker 5: their money together.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So I actually I did fifty percent finance and a
Speaker 7: fifty percent like sweat equity. So if you wanted to
Speaker 7: come in and like be the chef or you know,
Speaker 7: come in and run the bar, come in and run events,
Speaker 7: I allowed.
Speaker 6: I kind of created on opportunity for that too.
Speaker 5: So if you didn't have money, work work your way.
Speaker 7: Yeah, pretty much. So that was you know, I have
Speaker 7: capacity constraints. I'm a full time developer. I run a
Speaker 7: whole enterprise. I just couldn't do it on my.
Speaker 6: Own anyway, but I thought that this would be the
Speaker 6: best way.
Speaker 7: So one hundred percent of black owned, operated, staff, and
Speaker 7: finance all by us. It's been it's been a very
Speaker 7: good learning experience. You know, it comes, it's been a
Speaker 7: roller coaster ride. But the name of the restaurant, where'd
Speaker 7: you get from one A space? I'm a sure a
Speaker 7: black woman. So honestly, bus Boys and Poets is a
Speaker 7: prominent place in DC. So like, all that name is
Speaker 7: dope and it's a nod to Langston Hughes. So I
Speaker 7: was like, h right, I'm like who inspired me? My
Speaker 7: Angelou was that person. So I was like, okay, you know,
Speaker 7: how can I think through your name? So I ended
Speaker 7: up landing on the cage Bird. Twenty sixteen, I saw
Speaker 7: My Angelou's documentary and Still Our Rise. It was a
Speaker 7: great documentary, and it was the first time I always
Speaker 7: knew that I was living black history. It was the
Speaker 7: first time I was able to like identify it in
Speaker 7: somebody else, like yo, I saw this whole process. She
Speaker 7: was a woman, she was molested, she was silent, she
Speaker 7: didn't started speaking. She became a poet.
Speaker 6: She was.
Speaker 7: She was everything under the son you could think of,
Speaker 7: you know, good things, bad things, et cetera. Do the research,
Speaker 7: you can find it. But she was a true and
Speaker 7: actual person. So I want to create a space that
Speaker 7: people could live and be Black history within the.
Speaker 5: So for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2: And I think it's fitting because d C has so
Speaker 2: much rich history, rich Black history, rich every history. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is the capital of America. But we can't talk
Speaker 2: about America without the contributions of African Americans.
Speaker 4: We can't talk about Washington see without the contributions of
Speaker 4: Black Americas.
Speaker 2: And that's why they the museum. I haven't got a
Speaker 2: chance to go to the museum. Have you going there yet?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been a few times, being there one day
Speaker 6: for sure.
Speaker 5: A fact. That's a fact. That's a fact.
Speaker 6: I'm standing on it.
Speaker 5: That's a fact. That's a fact.
Speaker 2: Man. So yeah, congratulations.
Speaker 7: Man.
Speaker 5: It is very inspiring, especially.
Speaker 2: A lot of times, like we doing the conversation, we
Speaker 2: might have forgot that you're only thirty one years old.
Speaker 5: I'm saying not that I'm far from Troy's for I'm
Speaker 5: not far.
Speaker 6: I'm not that far able, that's not all that.
Speaker 5: But but nah Man.
Speaker 2: Congratulations, and it's great to see you know, to see
Speaker 2: people because a lot of times we highlight things that
Speaker 2: are negative, we got to highlight positive.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I'm not the type. I don't look for attention. That's
Speaker 7: not really my thing, Like actually don't care for it.
Speaker 7: People probably don't believe that, but uh, it was some
Speaker 7: in me that said it would be a the service
Speaker 7: to my community for not giving the knowledge that I have.
Speaker 6: So I had to like accept it.
Speaker 2: No, it's the greatest gift that you can give. It's inspiration.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I was telling you off camera,
Speaker 2: you never know who's listening. And like the kid that
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I could be a real estate developer,
Speaker 2: not just an investor and not just.
Speaker 6: Like and now exactly you know it exists.
Speaker 3: I could be a civil engineer.
Speaker 6: Like oh, that's so much.
Speaker 7: It's so much money in real estate in a sense. Yeah,
Speaker 7: And it's like it's like how you how you looked
Speaker 7: at Dawn. People's like there might be somebody looking at
Speaker 7: you just like that. But what I'm saying so it's like,
Speaker 7: but that's how that's how life is so crazy and
Speaker 7: you don't even realize it. And it's like you inspiring somebody,
Speaker 7: and it's like, now they might inspire somebody off of
Speaker 7: what you exactly exactly.
Speaker 6: But it shouts out to y'all for having a platform
Speaker 6: to do.
Speaker 7: So you know what I'm saying this is this is
Speaker 7: much important for us, for our community and to be
Speaker 7: able to dig into these numbers in a way that
Speaker 7: doesn't exist.
Speaker 6: You're not going to be able to google. The fact
Speaker 6: some of these numbers that.
Speaker 7: I said today, I break down the restaurant business too,
Speaker 7: if y'all want me to, Part two, Part two, part.
Speaker 6: So you can't go goot the stuff. So appreciate y'all, Na,
Speaker 6: thank you man.
Speaker 2: So how can people contact you any initiatives that you
Speaker 2: want to make them aware of?
Speaker 5: Social media and all that stuff?
Speaker 7: B Underscore? Are you ellie? That's my Instagram handle b Rule.
Speaker 7: Everybody called me that I was branded. There's a ton
Speaker 7: of brand that's growing up. Sports name y'all. Yeah, I
Speaker 7: got that, a lot real enterprises. The name of development
Speaker 7: company Cage Bird is restaurant bar DuPont and I got it.
Speaker 7: I got a new thing called reinvest coming out soon.
Speaker 5: So just a dope, dope Troy house Keeping item.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, shout out everybody on patreon dot com every
Speaker 4: time we come on and seeing that we get new members.
Speaker 4: So I just want to give a quick shout out
Speaker 4: and recognition to see Manual Ralphael, ariel Mark and Gregory
Speaker 4: shout out to y'all for joining us on Patreon, UH
Speaker 4: tier four and five members. You know that you have
Speaker 4: access to e y L University out online school and
Speaker 4: it's growing.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 4: We have a lot of webinars up there, a lot
Speaker 4: of uh great content we have from tax taxes to
Speaker 4: what else.
Speaker 6: Did we have on there?
Speaker 5: Everything mobile, mobile notary.
Speaker 2: We had Sabine talking about trademarking, multiple students and income,
Speaker 2: how to start a podcast, two three k loan class
Speaker 2: everything everything you can think of, and every week is
Speaker 2: three three classes added to the curriculum.
Speaker 5: So it's growing.
Speaker 4: It's a growing university and the merchan is out too.
Speaker 4: So as you can see, has that e y L
Speaker 4: University hood gear.
Speaker 5: Man, I got you, you got you, got you.
Speaker 4: I'm still rocking assets of a liability because that's all
Speaker 4: you know. I'll go to sloping right. Having more assets
Speaker 4: to pay for liabilities is a way to financial freedom.
Speaker 4: So keep supporting that and keep tuning in man, the
Speaker 4: podcast is growing, our streams income have grown.
Speaker 3: We come up with new ideas and new lessons.
Speaker 7: Man.
Speaker 3: This was like a history lesson and a business lesson
Speaker 3: and one man.
Speaker 5: Yeah for sure, b Rule, thank you.
Speaker 6: I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: On motivation purposes only the stream chaser this Bill Man
Speaker 2: for sure, for sure Atlanta, don't forget Atlanta.
Speaker 5: January twenty fifth.
Speaker 2: January twenty sixth, we released information on that soon when
Speaker 2: we come into town for sure, and who knows, Brandon might.
Speaker 6: Pop up, might put upful love.
Speaker 5: The book tip of this week.
Speaker 6: Is thinking gro Rich a black choice but Dennis kim Bro.
Speaker 5: Thank you guys for rocking with us. We'll see you
Speaker 5: next week.
Speaker 6: Peace, Peace, perfect