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Speaker 1: You're listening to Waiting our Reparations a production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio Waiting our Reparations. Ah, you were about to

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Speaker 1: listen to what Happy said? Us up because I'm sick

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Speaker 1: of this selection and I'm happy ship is done. It'll

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Speaker 1: be time for introspection, but for now, be glad. We

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Speaker 1: want seeing sad Trump supporters. I was laughing. It was fun.

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Speaker 1: Joe got to ship the stair again blacks and wants

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Speaker 1: to carry them. Oh, by the way, I want to

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Speaker 1: thank the Libertarians. The margins were verything, but we just

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Speaker 1: secured the weird. Fuck the proud boys, but I'm down

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Speaker 1: with the married men. Take from the rich, give to

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Speaker 1: the poor. Dope knife reasons they can't keep licking in stores,

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Speaker 1: sending races down in Georgia. Were prepare for more, but

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Speaker 1: these hands are like roller. You can get it indoors. Nigga.

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Speaker 1: Fox News is lost in these lawsuits is nonsense. They

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Speaker 1: want sue Philly, but we trust in the process. Check

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Speaker 1: the popular vote, we gain a separation. What's your Biden, though,

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Speaker 1: we're waiting our reparation in the mean times and then

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Speaker 1: an email to the attorney Blue Georgia. Yeah, we turning

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Speaker 1: doing it. The whole world be burning if we don't

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Speaker 1: pass a green new deal real soon. Yeah, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to go get the nerdy scientists to tell us

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Speaker 1: because everybody else be denying this, and toe Biden is

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Speaker 1: about to pass it, but it's like it because we

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Speaker 1: elected him in hot fashion. Up, I have to go

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Speaker 1: and bite the bashes because they're trying to do what cool.

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Speaker 1: Motherfucker's no, blue, No, I don't acknowledge it. I'm about

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Speaker 1: to try to abolish. I like to call it is.

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Speaker 1: My name is Dope night. We are waiting, ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: Down goes down, Down goes five? Is getting back up?

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Speaker 1: Is getting back up? I don't know. Okay, tell well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's definitely old news for y'all

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Speaker 1: at this point. It is Monday, November nine for us

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Speaker 1: as we record this, and I have no doubt that

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Speaker 1: by Thursday, when you guys hear this, that there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be like all new revealing house of horrors with the situation.

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Speaker 1: But for now, you know, motherfucker's in the street and

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Speaker 1: we're going to be in a little celebratory mood right now.

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Speaker 1: And plus we're in motherfucking Georgia, and so this is

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Speaker 1: a whole another level of big deal for people down here,

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Speaker 1: no doubt. Well, just to recap u over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: the election was called and Joe Biden is now your

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Speaker 1: new w w E champion or President of the United States.

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Speaker 1: Speaking w w E. I'm gonna keep harping on Georgia

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Speaker 1: this whole show because we came out with the steel

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Speaker 1: chair in the dead of night. I would awake at

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Speaker 1: like five o'clock in the morning the last hour watching

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Speaker 1: it when it flipped chair and it crept, and then

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Speaker 1: when it flipped over and it was like six votes up.

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Speaker 1: Like I was exhausted and utterly delirious because I got

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Speaker 1: maybe like fourteen hours of sleep last week. But now

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Speaker 1: I was just kicking it in the crib with like

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Speaker 1: election coverage on, you know, the laptop, and to be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, I kind of checked out, Like I

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Speaker 1: felt so damn wound up by the whole thing intense

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Speaker 1: that like when the day finally got there and the

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Speaker 1: votes started coming in, I was like, yeo, I'm just

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Speaker 1: turning it off. I had a bad feeling anyway, So

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Speaker 1: it's like I'm just gonna turn this ship off. And

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Speaker 1: just see what happens in the morning. But your experience

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Speaker 1: was completely different, right, because didn't you go to an

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Speaker 1: election watching party or something. I was, so I went

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Speaker 1: up to Gainesville to watch the results come in with

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend Paul, who was a campaign manager for candidate

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Speaker 1: for Congress up in with Georgia. But I am dead

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Speaker 1: and Pandy running in a really tough district um but

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Speaker 1: you know, celebrating all all kinds of small victories that

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Speaker 1: are one with regards to turn out, with regards to

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Speaker 1: other candidates that were running. So my question I have

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Speaker 1: for you is, like, it's one thing to see all

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Speaker 1: of your like live or progressive friends like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: Georgia turned blue, Georgia turn blue. But for somebody like

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Speaker 1: you who's actually you know, I mean whatever, would it

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Speaker 1: be unfair? Would it be like a mischaracterization for me

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Speaker 1: to say you're somebody who's kind of on the inside

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Speaker 1: track of that effort to get Georgia to turn blue

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Speaker 1: within this last like two years, right? I mean definitely

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Speaker 1: with regards to just getting people engaged inside outside as

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Speaker 1: presidential elections. Yeah, I mean, this is a beautiful moment.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it was never gonna come like the

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Speaker 1: odds were so impossible. And as someone that's like on

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Speaker 1: the left left, you know, I recognize that this is

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Speaker 1: that you know, we don't choose incrementalism, but we accept

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Speaker 1: it when we have to. And so we have put

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Speaker 1: in so much work to at least open the door

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Speaker 1: to a world where the things we won't were possible,

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Speaker 1: I think, and to to kind of just like step

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Speaker 1: back and think about all of the efforts that have

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Speaker 1: been put in all across the state in these tiny

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Speaker 1: rural towns where you know, these people feel like they

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Speaker 1: are the only ones, in places like Athens, where we're

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Speaker 1: surrounded on all side it's by very conservative areas and

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Speaker 1: just like constantly fighting, you know, with jerry mandering and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: just to have our voices heard. That like the to

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Speaker 1: like breathe in like the threat the sweet smell of

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Speaker 1: like what collective action, Like what those fruits of that

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Speaker 1: labor smell like? Like uh it was, you know, Like

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Speaker 1: I I remain like a realist and like recognize that

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Speaker 1: it's going to require a lot of grit and tenacity

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Speaker 1: and persistence and frustration for us to continue to fight

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Speaker 1: to achieve them. While you want to see I believe that,

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Speaker 1: you know, through the selection, we've gained the enemy that

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Speaker 1: we want um. But you know, I drove down to

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Speaker 1: Atlanta on Saturday and we got the got the notice

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Speaker 1: that the election have been called in the car and

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Speaker 1: we showed about a rally that was supposed to be

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Speaker 1: like count every vote being put on by like Sister

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Speaker 1: Song and like a lot of like progressive said of

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Speaker 1: lefty like Bipop organizations in Atlanta. But to show up

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Speaker 1: and then like the mood was so different, like everyone

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Speaker 1: turned on a dime and immediately was about, all right,

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Speaker 1: how are we getting medicare for all? You know? Sunrise

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Speaker 1: Moving was there and they're talking about a Green New

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Speaker 1: Deal and we're still in Georgia under Brian Kemp, you know,

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Speaker 1: and a Republican control legislator having to deal with a

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Speaker 1: tax on women's bodily autonomy and like continuing that fight.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that people were able, but like the

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Speaker 1: fact that people were so tired. Everyone was honking. They're

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Speaker 1: playing like nuck if you buck and the return of

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Speaker 1: the Jedi and ship like if you're watching the news,

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Speaker 1: just like each each city in the world that they

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Speaker 1: were showing a clip of of everybody was just in

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Speaker 1: the streets celebrating, like they defeated the empire and ship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and I guess. And so Saturday was really meaningful

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Speaker 1: to me to be there in the park with all

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Speaker 1: of those organizers because it felt like proto organizing energy.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like like a victory had been one. It

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Speaker 1: was that we were excited and energized for what is next.

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Speaker 1: Um Like we were getting like like it was like

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Speaker 1: a like a like a like a pre a pregame

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Speaker 1: at the at the at the crib. What you're doing

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Speaker 1: shots with all your homies on the couch of doing

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Speaker 1: power power before you go out for the real you know,

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Speaker 1: the go out into the sub thirty degrees. All is

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Speaker 1: pretty much kind of like a detour. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: like a like the ship is obviously not over, and

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Speaker 1: it's like whatever whatever, whatever thing that people were scared

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Speaker 1: of encountering with the second Trump presidency. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're all kind of on the hangover still of being

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Speaker 1: happy that he's going to be going away, but we're

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Speaker 1: only taking a detour. You know, this is a joke

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Speaker 1: because it doesn't seem like there's gonna be a coup well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not losing. It's only Monday. Let's give

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Speaker 1: these niggas sometime. Let's let's meet here next week and

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what's going on with that, because I

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Speaker 1: don't know. The last thing that I heard today before

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Speaker 1: we started recording was the person whose job it is

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Speaker 1: to sign off on the transition is refusing to sign

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Speaker 1: off on the transition. They've got mad lawsuits out everywhere.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to prevent states from certifying the vote. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, this is Monday. The ship

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Speaker 1: was just confirmed, the Biden one yesterday, and the fun

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Speaker 1: he starts already, So I don't know what the hell

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Speaker 1: is gonna be like on Thursday. We'll see how that

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Speaker 1: plays out. Before we think we're out of the woods

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Speaker 1: yet on Trump and his little coup thing, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, Lindsey Graham ted cruise ship. There's a long

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Speaker 1: list of like people who have been in Congress for

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty years that should know better better on TV

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Speaker 1: talking about Trump never lost, so I have I don't know,

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Speaker 1: We'll see, we'll see. There's the problem with distractions like

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Speaker 1: that because we have to put all hands on deck

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Speaker 1: and turn our attention to the elections coming up in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: right right, and so you know, it's been an exciting

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Speaker 1: kind for Georgia's could remain kind of like an annoyingly

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Speaker 1: exciting time for Georgia for the next TIWO weeks and

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Speaker 1: that like every national organization, all eyes were on Georgia

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Speaker 1: pouring in money and people, and Andrew Yane announced that

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Speaker 1: he's moving here, and like all these Facebook groups have

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Speaker 1: popped up and people like how do I donate, and

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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna send you a thousands buttons and I'm

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Speaker 1: just imagining our mailbox is just stuffed just to the

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Speaker 1: brim with like mailers and the ads. But the struggle

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Speaker 1: never ends ends, so on the cited, like, I feel

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Speaker 1: very energized to Like I wasn't excited about Warnock or

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Speaker 1: us off before. They're pretty milk toast neo liberals. It's

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Speaker 1: with the exception, I mean, like we're not kind of

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Speaker 1: came around like a federal job guarantee you, which is

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Speaker 1: like pretty legit one of my favorite policies. Um, but

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Speaker 1: now I'm like, oh shit, if we at least like

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Speaker 1: have the Senate like Medicare for all and like a

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Speaker 1: federal job guarantee are a lot more possible if we

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Speaker 1: have the Senate that if we don't, so I might

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Speaker 1: as well fucking put everything I got into the next

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Speaker 1: six weeks of trying to elect these motherfucker's just to

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Speaker 1: create the world in which the world I want is

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Speaker 1: a little more possible, no doubt. Well that was a

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Speaker 1: long ass intro, but we got a real dope show

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Speaker 1: for you all today. We're gonna talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about the elections coming up in Georgia. But later

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Speaker 1: on we're gonna be talking with the hosts of nprs

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Speaker 1: new podcast, Louder than a Riot, some really cool people,

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Speaker 1: and it's a really cool show you guys are gonna

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Speaker 1: dig on. We're also gonna go over some new music

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Speaker 1: real event to our times for the music review. That's

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Speaker 1: gonna be cool. We've got some stuff dealing with the

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Speaker 1: NSAR situation in Nigeria. We've got Jim Jones and his

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Speaker 1: election theme track. We're also going to dive a little

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Speaker 1: bit into the case surrounding newly released rapper Drake EO

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Speaker 1: and his court situation. So stick around at some dope stuff.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back in a second. And so with all

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Speaker 1: eyes on Georgia. We want to get some shout outs

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Speaker 1: to organize this across the state who have been doing

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Speaker 1: work on the ground for years to bring us to

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Speaker 1: this moment and who will continue to push us into

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Speaker 1: the future as we you know, not only celebrate this

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Speaker 1: moment and celebrate not only celebrate this moment, also celebrate

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Speaker 1: its potentiality. After I went to the rally on Saturday,

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Speaker 1: I met up with some latinage organizers from mostly North Georgia. Um,

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Speaker 1: who were you know, celebrating, but also we took a moment.

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Speaker 1: It was really weird, but like inspiring. The host Maria

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Speaker 1: del Rosario Pelacios, kind of took everyone like paused the

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Speaker 1: gathering to ask everyone, what does the nation? What should

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Speaker 1: the nation thank you for for this moment in Georgia.

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Speaker 1: And everyone went around and just said what, you know,

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Speaker 1: whether they're organized or not, just answered the question, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, what does the nation know you for this moment?

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Speaker 1: And so I asked. I found really inspiring some of

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Speaker 1: their answers, and so I asked some organizers from across

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Speaker 1: the state answered the same question so that y'all can

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Speaker 1: give him proper props. And I stopped with local youth

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Speaker 1: activists and daughter a former state House candidate, Mocha Jasmine

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Speaker 1: Johnson Daln White, who gave rowsing speeches about the importance

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Speaker 1: of voting at Black Lives Matter rallies over the summer

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Speaker 1: and a final push land Bass at voter suppression that

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Speaker 1: I get out the vote rally here in Athletes the

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Speaker 1: Saturday before the election. I believe that the nation should

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Speaker 1: thank any local activists in Georgia for what's happening in

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Speaker 1: the state because we were able to relay a message

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Speaker 1: and information to the citizens when we needed it the

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Speaker 1: most in its upcoming election. To basically put somebody in

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Speaker 1: office stats here for us and the people and be

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Speaker 1: the change that we wanted to see by being a

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Speaker 1: beacon and just spreading light to all. I spoke with

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Speaker 1: Brendon Buchanan, former charity Metroy Letter Democratic Social America, which

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Speaker 1: is the largest UH chapter of d s A of

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Speaker 1: the South. The folks in power in the state of

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Speaker 1: Georgia have spent the last twenty years convincing people that

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Speaker 1: change is not possible, whether that's through control of the media,

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Speaker 1: control of elected officials, control of the suburbs, or control

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Speaker 1: of that goofy racist flag that we've had going up

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Speaker 1: until like two thousand and three, and we've been working

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Speaker 1: just as hard the same work you're doing to convince

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Speaker 1: people that change matters and is really possible. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to thank us for what's happening in Georgia, but

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Speaker 1: you're welcome. But yeah, I mean to kind of unpack

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Speaker 1: some more takes that have been circulating around the election.

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Speaker 1: The NYT reports that nine of the ten voters sided

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Speaker 1: the summer uprising as a motivating factor the decision to vote,

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Speaker 1: three forces of calling it a major motivating factor, and

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Speaker 1: a fifth of voter saying it was the single most

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Speaker 1: motivating factor for the decision to participate in the election.

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Speaker 1: Among those who sided the protests as a factor, of

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Speaker 1: them voted for Joe Biden voted for Donald Trump. According

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Speaker 1: to their survey, it seems about what you would expect.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of people anecdotally who weren't really

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Speaker 1: that engaged or interested in the election, just from the

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Speaker 1: typical thing that you would expect, like Democrats and Republicans

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Speaker 1: are the same, and what really is the biggest difference

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Speaker 1: between Trump and Democrats and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 1: But after the clearing out of Lafaye Square. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends who were like on

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Speaker 1: that day, were like, oh, you mean it's like really real.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, we've been saying for the last three years.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like for people that are like not

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Speaker 1: super politically engaged, whose primary Civics education came from high school,

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Speaker 1: like this is how a bill becomes a law, go vote,

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Speaker 1: like who maybe are inconsistent or non voters, Like it

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Speaker 1: makes sense that in the summer of sudden, a sudden

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Speaker 1: like quasar of goddamn political activity, people's first day they're

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Speaker 1: gonna do is get vote. More so than like writing

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Speaker 1: to their legislator or organizing direct action or mutual aid.

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Speaker 1: The thing that they has been inculcated in their minds

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Speaker 1: since they were like they were instant infancy was voting,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, it makes sense that like people's media

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Speaker 1: reaction would be to make sure they participate in the election,

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Speaker 1: even if honestly with regards to regards to their visionary goals,

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Speaker 1: the visionary demands that emerged from the uprising, like really

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Speaker 1: like we don't fares well either way, but I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we should look at it as you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously everything has to be with proper perspective, But I

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Speaker 1: don't think that there's anything wrong with people looking at

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Speaker 1: it as like a victory and a sign of progress.

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Speaker 1: This easily could have flipped on the other It could

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Speaker 1: have that, could have this, this, everything right here could

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Speaker 1: have been reversed for the negative. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: It could have been fifty three of them voted for

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Speaker 1: Trump because of the protests and then the's and then

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Speaker 1: in the NYT piece they do talk They did talk

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Speaker 1: to voters who said they saw the looting and the vandalism,

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Speaker 1: and they got scared, and they wanted a law and

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Speaker 1: order president, and they went out and voted. They decided that, oh,

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Speaker 1: I gotta as all offense, but I'm gonna go out

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Speaker 1: and vote for Trump. So well, let's here's my final thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Unlike the Trump supporters. Look, I know that there's seventy

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Speaker 1: million of them, you know what I'm saying, seventy million

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Speaker 1: people who are willing to go and vote. And I

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Speaker 1: know that with all of the craziness that the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration was throwing at the wall, that it's hard to

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Speaker 1: keep track of everything. I personally am not one of

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Speaker 1: those people that like loses track of ship. One day,

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Speaker 1: one morning in July, the President just woke up out

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Speaker 1: of the blue and tweeted out white power. Seventy million

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Speaker 1: people are cool with that, completely cool with that. So

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Speaker 1: just keep that, you know, I mean everyone, just keep

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Speaker 1: that in proper perspective. With all of this like unity

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Speaker 1: talk and oh we gotta like repudiation of fascism, it's

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Speaker 1: like fucking barely, it's barely. It's barely, way too close

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Speaker 1: for comfort. Are you fucking kidding me? But yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: just keep all of that in mind. That just that

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Speaker 1: there are seventy million people who accept Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: everything about Donald Trump. So you the listener out there,

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Speaker 1: whatever thing that you take away from this past four

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Speaker 1: years about the Trump presidency that you personally that affected you,

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Speaker 1: that you think was especially bad, seventy million of your

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Speaker 1: fellow countrymen and women have zero problem with it, whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: whatever that issue would be. I just want to keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind because obviously we know that the the Centrists,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna start coming out of the woodwork. They've already

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Speaker 1: started coming out of the woodworks with demands of bipartisanship

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Speaker 1: and working together in YadA YadA, YadA. Oh it's never

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Speaker 1: These things are never brought up when the Republicans win. Like,

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Speaker 1: I do not remember any news source that was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you guys know that some of these policies that you're

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Speaker 1: the most ulim band in this wall, Like, you guys

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Speaker 1: do know that these are like fringe right wing like ideas.

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Speaker 1: Are y'all really just gonna poist them on the American

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Speaker 1: public without like you know, trying to like find any

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Speaker 1: sort of like middle ground. No one's what was asking

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Speaker 1: Republicans about any sort of middle ground. The Democrats win

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Speaker 1: and the next day they're like, all right, so you

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Speaker 1: guys gotta work together, right, we gotta reject throughout the lasts,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean starting to peel their masks off

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Speaker 1: now and show the goblins that we hated for a

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Speaker 1: decade before Trump. Yeah, it's it's very frustrated speaking of

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Speaker 1: we speaking of interpretations of where we go from here. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's so there is a lot of talk about like

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Speaker 1: do we sees on our new power to push things left?

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Speaker 1: Because honestly, funk the niggas like we can do whatever

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Speaker 1: we want now, you know, we're more Republicans voted for

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Speaker 1: Trump this time the last time, so fuck them and

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Speaker 1: we don't need them. We didn't. They didn't vote for

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden. We don't, you know, did cater to them.

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Speaker 1: That's the Lincoln Project you can thank for that votes

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Speaker 1: for Trump. Yeah, good job, great jobs, five million more votes.

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Speaker 1: And John Casey didn't give us Ohio nailed nailed it. Boys.

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Speaker 1: You know, we got Minnesota, thanks Alan Alont Michigan, Thanks

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Speaker 1: Rush Lead. I'm just saying, so, y'all thrown out the

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Speaker 1: radical lab Meanwhile, Democrats who lost re election failed, you know,

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Speaker 1: if the most part failed to support policies like Medicare

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Speaker 1: for all, and the ones that did actually ended up

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Speaker 1: winning there, Yeah, and putting in swing state and swing

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Speaker 1: districts like fucking Katie Porter. So I mean, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there's more to it than that. Results are results,

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Speaker 1: you know. But there's gonna be plenty of time for

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Speaker 1: these debates in the weeks and months to come. But

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Speaker 1: enough of that for now. Let's get into the fun ship.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring on our guest today. Today, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking with two extraordinarily dope people individually. They are a

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Speaker 1: reporter and editor for NPR Music Sydney Madden and NPR

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Speaker 1: Music's hip hop writer Rodney Carmichael. And if this was

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Speaker 1: like a live studio audiences where I'd say, makes some

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Speaker 1: noise for riding everybody, can you tell this performing? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have you seasoned music journalists, but together they are

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Speaker 1: hosts one of the freshest podcasts out right now. NPR

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Speaker 1: is Louder than a Riot. So, Sydney, Rodney from the job,

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Speaker 1: can you explain to our listeners what the show was

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Speaker 1: about and what they can expect to hear when they

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Speaker 1: dive in. Man, you want to take that? Yeah? Absolutely, Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, thanks for having us, y'all. I've been

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Speaker 1: binging the show, so now I'm a fan. I'm a

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Speaker 1: new fan. So um, Louder than Riot is all about

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Speaker 1: the collision of rhyme and punishment in America. So what

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Speaker 1: we do on this show is really traced the historical

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Speaker 1: and socio political timelines and intersecting timelines of hip hop

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Speaker 1: and mass incarceration from the nineties till now. And we

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Speaker 1: do it through real life cases of rappers and hip

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Speaker 1: hop luminaries that have been touched by the criminal justice system.

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Speaker 1: I was really curious and how you set it on

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Speaker 1: this particular intersection between hip hop and politics for the

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Speaker 1: focus of your show, since in our show we talked

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Speaker 1: about many ways that policy touches the lives of the

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Speaker 1: of those in the hip hop community. So why mass

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Speaker 1: incarceration particularly, I mean, I think we got our first

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Speaker 1: signals from the music, you know what I mean. I

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Speaker 1: think if you if you you grew up in the

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Speaker 1: in the eighties and but especially in the nineties, in

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Speaker 1: terms of being a hip hop fan, if you were listening,

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Speaker 1: if you were listening to the music at the time,

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Speaker 1: you know, they were making these connections. They were they

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Speaker 1: were critiquing the the prison industrial complex on a ground

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Speaker 1: level plane spoken, you know, the way we talked each other,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, in ways that I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: academics were as well, and then the activists and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: But if you were just a straight up hip hop head,

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Speaker 1: it was information. And you know, I think that that

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Speaker 1: that sense that there was just you know, connection or

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Speaker 1: you know, was it conspiratorial. It's just an idea that's

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Speaker 1: always kind of resonated. You know, a lot of conspiratorial

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Speaker 1: ideas resonating our community because you know, honestly, a lot

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Speaker 1: of conspiratorial things have happened to our community that we

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Speaker 1: were never told about, and we had to learn about

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Speaker 1: ourselves and connect the doubts ourselves. Yeah. So so I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's that's where the connection came from. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think you know, Source magazine back in

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Speaker 1: the early two thousand's when they did them behind Bars

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Speaker 1: issues a few years running. You know, that was a

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Speaker 1: really huge thing. I remember at the time, um and

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Speaker 1: and and just I open it in terms of like, oh, there, there,

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Speaker 1: there's there's a connection here, or at least a way

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Speaker 1: to explore the criminal justice system in a way it's

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Speaker 1: impacting us through the thing that we love so much,

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Speaker 1: hip hop. You know. So is there any is there

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Speaker 1: any like one particular case that kind of sparked off

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Speaker 1: the interest to go in this direction. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it was. I think it was the fact that there

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Speaker 1: were so many cases, you know. I mean the idea

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Speaker 1: is it's really about trying to expose the fact that

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Speaker 1: this this you know, mass and conceration and over policing

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Speaker 1: impacts us so much, you know, and it's like, how

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Speaker 1: can you talk about this issue in a way that

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Speaker 1: isn't just academic isn't just statistics in a way where

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Speaker 1: you can tell stories that will pull people in and

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Speaker 1: and and and really you know, get you to think

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Speaker 1: about these issues. So hip hop really is almost just

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Speaker 1: the vehicle to look at, you know, how how this

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Speaker 1: stuff is has been affecting us for for so many

428
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: decades because you know, hip hop is popular, you know

429
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: what I mean, it's popular with us, it's popular with

430
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: people outside of our communities obviously, and a lot of

431
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: people who claim they love black people don't necessarily seem

432
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: to always understand the way, you know, issues and systemic

433
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: racism and whatnot how to impact them black people specifically,

434
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: and so it's like, let's let's use this thing that

435
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: you love, um, you know, whether you're black or white

436
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: or whatever, and and and expose these broader realities. Um. So, yeah,

437
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: it was just the mass amount of cases that that

438
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: made it seem so you know, it's like like so

439
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: inevitable together. And that's the through line that we really,

440
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: um saw because when a lot of these cases started

441
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: popping up, whether it be uh the meat mail pro

442
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: violation or twenty one Savage getting getting yoked up at

443
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl for citizenship violations stuff like that to too.

444
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: To an untrained eye and untrained ear, it can all

445
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: seem like I selated incidents, and it can all seem like, oh, well,

446
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: rappers get in trouble, that's what they do. They sell

447
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: this type of criminal outlaw lifestyle, so when they live it,

448
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: you know that's what happens. But these these cases don't

449
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: happen in a vacuum. In these cases have so much

450
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: overshadowing and overarching systemic themes, systemic racism, themes throughout that

451
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: we really wanted to drive that connection home. And it

452
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: now seems like obviously it's been a topic that's evergreen

453
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: and pertinent, but now it seemed a perfect time to

454
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: do it because as hip hop is the most consumed,

455
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: most stream genre in America, and America incarcerates more of

456
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: its um population than any other country per capita in

457
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: the in the world. So it's like these superlatives, they

458
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: don't live separate from each other. They're all intertwined because

459
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: the art and the culture, it's a it's a mirror

460
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: to what what is happening in society. So that's why

461
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: we really wanted to draw it out. So how did

462
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: y'all like linked to to do this podcast. Oh that

463
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: was the easy part, I means part. Yeah, we started

464
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: at the same year. Uh. And at NPR Music, I

465
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: started at the beginning of the years. It came towards

466
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: the end of the year, and you know, we we

467
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: were we were I think we were really kind of

468
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: hungry to create a platform within NPR Music, uh for

469
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: hip hop. You know, obviously there's the Tiny Desk, which um,

470
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, we we both contribute to uh as well

471
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: and has has in it in itself in a lot

472
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: of ways become a platform for for hip hop and

473
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: R and B in black music. Um. And there was

474
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, the the early hip hop podcast microphone Check,

475
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: which was one of the first things that really made

476
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: me start checking for NPR Music before I worked there. Um,

477
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: but you know, uh, Franny Kelly who started that podcast,

478
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: she had moved on at that point, so it just

479
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 1: wasn't a platform. It just felt like, uh, you know,

480
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: hip hop, like like we already said, you know, hip

481
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: hop is the most popular genre, and you know it's

482
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: it's the two it's the two teens whatever. You know

483
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, it's it's crazy that we don't have

484
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: a bigger platform here to talk about hip hop, and

485
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, we we were already in

486
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: brainstorm mode and and you know it kind of we're

487
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: going to create something whether it was right, and it was.

488
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: We really saw openly for ourselves with it because we

489
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: were both coming to it as hip hop journalists music

490
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: journalists who were at the time like newes to MPR.

491
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: But you know, NPR has it carries such a name

492
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: of high caliber journalism. So we really saw that crossroads

493
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,239
Speaker 1: of like cultural confluence that we bring naturally to it

494
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: because we're of the culture and we cover the culture

495
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: and we are the culture. And then and then marrying

496
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: that with real in depth research, reporting, editing, producing, um,

497
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: soundscaping that NPR is known for. So we were like,

498
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: there's nothing else out there like this, So let's do it.

499
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: Fellos Firs and name mother than a rioting from oh Man.

500
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: Well that was first. We went through a lot of

501
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: names we had. We won't we won't mention any of

502
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: the we had. Um, some just weren't right, others were

503
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: not available. UM. But you know, in the midst of this,

504
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, we've been we've been working on this, this

505
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: podcast for over two years and so in the midst

506
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: of us kind of finally coming down, ramping up to

507
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: getting ready to release it, all of this stuff everything

508
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: of starts to happen, right, and so you know, it

509
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: felt so um, it just resonated with with with with

510
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: everything that we were talking about, you know, and it

511
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, let's try to pick a name

512
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: that not only uh, speaks to this moment, but speaks

513
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: to the history that hip hop has in terms of,

514
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, being a voice for the voiceless and speaking

515
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: truth to power and you know mL case you know

516
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: famous quote a riot is the language of the unheard.

517
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: It just kept resonating, and it's just like, you know, what,

518
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: what what better genre of music is there in hip

519
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: hop when it comes to being a soundtrack for the unheard?

520
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: You know? So um, just the idea that hip hop

521
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: has been rapping and raging about this stuff for forty

522
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: plus years and for whatever reason, America on on on

523
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: some level, you know, whether it was short lived or

524
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: not seemed to to hear. Uh. You know what we've

525
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: been um, you know, crying about and pointing out for

526
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: for forty plus years, uh, four hundred years. You know

527
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: this this summer it's just we we just wanted to

528
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,719
Speaker 1: kind of land on something that connected all of that together.

529
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: And you know, you know if if if if share

530
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: so if. That's just kind of how we landed on.

531
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: And it's really a lot about just to add on

532
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: to that, Rodney is being humble, but he came up

533
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: with that great epiphany in like the eleventh and a

534
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: half hour because they were like, y'all, all these names

535
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: are taken. We need a name. Ronney's like, I got it.

536
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: But just to add on to that, there's so much

537
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: um um negative and derogatory connotations to the word riot,

538
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: and riot has become something of of a racialized term

539
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: and a politicized term, and we really wanted to um

540
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: circumvent that and subvert that and and put it in

541
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: front of your face and be like, nah, this is

542
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: the deeper context that you need to look into and

543
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: you need to listen to. And and that's exactly what

544
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: our show does. Our show is a lot about context.

545
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: It's a lot about historical um um backdrops. It's a

546
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: lot about um intergenerational trauma, community settings, disparities that informed

547
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: the music that that turned UH young artists into into

548
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: scapegoats and into martyrs for the culture and for and

549
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: for the law. So so casually, uh, and so that's

550
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: what we really wanted to do. We wanted to signal

551
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: in the name that this is going to be more

552
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: than what you just think it is off jump. So

553
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: that's why we we went with something and we actually

554
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: made ours. It's a new phrase, and it helps that

555
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, now when you say louder than the riot,

556
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: all you can think of is this, right, So it's

557
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: easy for search terms too, So shout out to Rodney. So,

558
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: like back in the early two thousand tens, like I personally,

559
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: it's like before falling down the YouTube rabbit hole had

560
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: like a term to it that was like diagnosed. I

561
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: was kind of like susceptible to some online just conspiracy

562
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: theories and stuff like that in the early days of

563
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And I remember one of the

564
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: early things that I remember stumbling across around them was

565
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: the letter, the infamous letter that you guys deal with

566
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: in the first episode of the show. So I wanted

567
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: you guys to first explain to our listeners just the

568
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: story behind the letter, and then why did y'all choose

569
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: to have that be like the jumping point for the

570
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: first episode, the stars like what you guys dealt with? Okay.

571
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: So so the letter, the letter in question, um, uh,

572
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: which I guess doesn't really have a name to it,

573
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: but but we kind of named the hip the hip

574
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: hop Willie Lynch Letter. Um. I've heard other people call it.

575
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: To Dr Regina Bradley, who we we interview in the

576
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: DJ Drama episode, she she calls it that as well. Um,

577
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: the letter, the letter you know, it reports that there

578
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: was a meeting that to place in the early nineties

579
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: that brought together music executives and private prison industry executives

580
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: and proposed this, uh you know, this this this meeting

581
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: or this connection between the two in which they would

582
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: get rich together if the music executives began signing, marketing

583
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: and promoting hip hop. That uh you know played into

584
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: a lot of the criminal stereotypes and and therefore with

585
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: you know, help them feel their private prisons. Uh. That

586
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: was that was the idea, right and um, I think

587
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, the idea resonated because you know,

588
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: like so many people that we interviewed talked about it

589
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: kind of you know, fits with the evolution of hip hop.

590
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: That was happening that began to happen, you know, early nineties,

591
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: as as as gangster rap, you know, explode it and

592
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: really became the most popular form or subgenre of hip hop.

593
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,919
Speaker 1: You know, you saw this transformation from you know, like

594
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: the pro black afrocentric era kind of East Coast driven,

595
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: although there were a lot of West Coast artists a

596
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: shot after, artists like Paris and whatnot, that we're on

597
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: that same tip um. I mean it with every everybody,

598
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: the whole. I think hip hop at at large what

599
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: was on that tip um. But you know, you definitely

600
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: saw a transformation, and I think there was market forces

601
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: that at play behind some of that, but it was

602
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: also cultural things happening behind some of that um and

603
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: and so I think the reason why we wanted to

604
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: jump it off like that is is because I don't know,

605
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: I don't think we could have avoided it. Honestly, if

606
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: you're looking at the intersection, but the potential intersection between

607
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: mass and conceration and hip hop. You know, even if

608
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: even if the thescy theory is letter is a is

609
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: a is a hoax or just a theory, it does

610
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: so much of the legwork in terms of getting you

611
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: to think about the potential connections between the two or

612
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: why we as as as black folks, as hip hop

613
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: fans would be so anxious about the potential connection, you know,

614
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: and and what what is what is driving this connection

615
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: and and why are things changing in ways that seem

616
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: to be beyond our control? Um? I mean you just

617
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: look at like so many forms of of of of

618
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: of black art. I mean, think about like the so

619
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: called black exploitation error and film. You know, it starts

620
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: off as an error where all of a sudden, you know,

621
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: black directors and creators start getting access to to make

622
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: bigger budget films through the Hollywood system, and you know,

623
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: the the next thing, you know, you know, no matter

624
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: what you think of the Black itation era, which I

625
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: love a lot of that stuff. Um, I kind of

626
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: like grew up on that stuff watching this stuff on VHS,

627
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying, uh, but you know, in a lot of ways,

628
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: it has the same trajectory that you see hip hop having.

629
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's a cyclical thing and sometimes repeats,

630
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 1: and I think it's just it's the job of capitalism

631
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: in some ways to you know, uh, market and exploit

632
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: and and kind of reduce things to you know, the

633
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: lowest common denominator in some ways, because for whatever reason,

634
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: that seems to be the way that the system can

635
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: can more easily market you know, uh, you know, like

636
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: the black experience or something the outside of black folks,

637
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's just like, let's

638
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: let's let's figure out a way that I can't imagine

639
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: how we would have explained why we were, you know,

640
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: exploring this connection if we didn't have that conspiracy theory

641
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: letter to to fall back on, so to speak. Word,

642
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: I heard you mentioned something about you know, market forces

643
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: in Sydney. Earlier you talked about the community backdrops that

644
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: sort of influenced the pervasiveness. And you know, the recent

645
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: in recent decades, the explosion of the prison industrial complex

646
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: and as um conversations around you know, defunding and abolishing

647
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: the police and like abolishal prisons have become mainstreamed. Over

648
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: the summer, a lot of people are thinking thinking towards

649
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: the other factors of public safety and our communities with

650
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: regards to access to healthcare, access to education, other sorts

651
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: of preventative measures that make our community safer. And I

652
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: was wondering how much those other sorts of UM influencing

653
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: UM pieces of public policy UM make their way into

654
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: your discussions of the how under investment UM spurs the

655
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: prison industrial complex, if at all in the show. Yeah,

656
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: that's a great question. And we are about halfway through

657
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: our season right now, and a lot of it has

658
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: been UM dealing with cases that have to do with

659
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: criminalizing hip hop culture at large. Where that that be

660
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: with UM DJ dramas, mixtape raid or or lyrics on trial,

661
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: which is a pervasive tactic by prosecution, and that's what

662
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: the case of Mac Phipps UM. On other episodes that

663
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: are coming up this season, you're gonna hear about Bobby

664
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: schmurder and cycles of structural, cultural, and direct violence in

665
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: underserved and and under UM underfunded neighborhoods, Black and brown

666
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: neighborhoods specifically, You're going to hear about police tactics and

667
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: the lineage of profiling and and parole pitfalls in South

668
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 1: central l A. Which is the place where Nipsey Hustle

669
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: called home. And then UM you're gonna hear about specific

670
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: prison conditions and how they are meant to psychologically and

671
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: physically break you as a human being. Uh, you're gonna

672
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: hear about uh and then sorry, and then we bring

673
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: it home. We're talking about where we are at this

674
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: present moment and how you said a lot of conversations

675
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: being mainstream this summer about defunding the police, abolishing the

676
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: prison industrial complex, and what and what reality will look

677
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: like on the other side of that when we don't

678
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: live in a world of of crime and punishment and

679
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: guilt and innocence as binaries. So with every hip hop story,

680
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: we we've in these these lessons and these and these

681
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: updates on on certain jurisdictions, certain protocols, certain laws, but

682
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: we do it in a way that's applicable to somebody

683
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: who just chilling on the block, who would see like,

684
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: this is how it relates to me type of thing

685
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: like not like, it doesn't have to be um you know,

686
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be something that is so above

687
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: your head and so um foreign to you that you

688
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: think it doesn't apply to you. And one thing I

689
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: love about y'all's last episode, which you're talking about the

690
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: power of voting and hip hop's influence when it comes

691
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: to getting the vote out and stuff. I think it

692
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: was I think it was dope knife who said it.

693
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: But you know, we're talking about having the power to

694
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: focusing on the power that you have to control what

695
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: you do, which is your human body. If you are

696
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: able body, do have the power to protest, and you

697
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: have the power to go out and get and get

698
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: in line and vote in person and until you have

699
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: until you do not have breath in your body, Like

700
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: that's what you can do, you know, like you want to,

701
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: you want to have applicable choices of what you can do.

702
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: And I think a big aim of this show is

703
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: about is about the power of disseminating the narrative, like

704
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: informing the narrative um um, aligning the narrative, and sharing

705
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: the narrative with people who it's very much about, but

706
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: they don't really get to hear it themselves, and they

707
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: don't get to hear it in in the way that

708
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: they talk to each other. And I think that's something

709
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: that we always carry with us whenever we're whenever we're

710
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: whenever we're diving deep into the historical laws of when

711
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: lyrics on child are being used, or when rego laws

712
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: are being allowed to criminalize the mixtape, or when the

713
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: power of the prosecutor pushes someone who's eighteen years old

714
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: into a plea deal without his lawyer. President things like that.

715
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: We're up. Okay, So what is everybody listening to? Laid

716
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: on me? What? What's everybody bumping right now? Oh? Man, yo,

717
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: I gotta tell y'all. I have not told you, have

718
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 1: not told anybody about this because it's it's not out here.

719
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: It doesn't come out next week about He's always like

720
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: he's out music. I don't even get music early like that.

721
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: But uh, the first person for for Goodye Mov's new

722
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: album snent it to me the day of the election.

723
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: I think was the day that I listened to it too.

724
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: That so like two days ago or whatever. Man, I'm

725
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: a good mother fan. Especially first I heard a new

726
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: song and had like a video. I don't know if

727
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 1: that was that the one that you're talking about, but yeah,

728
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's on the album though, is like,

729
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: this is definitely their best album since uh since Still Standing,

730
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's

731
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: executive produced by Organized Noise, Cool Joe is on Fire,

732
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: Gift is on Fire. See Low sounded like see Low

733
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: from the hood again. Oh my god, I feel like

734
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: all of my things like Dwarf and comparison to that.

735
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 1: Damn you're talking about legends, Okay, and I only listened

736
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: to it once, so you know, I might just be

737
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: super hyper. But don't try to backtrack now, dare you? Okay? Anyway,

738
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: my favorites are things that are already out that people

739
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: have already been debating and dissecting. But with this, we've

740
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: really been, you know, diving deep into these stories that

741
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: are you know, like headlines from a couple of years

742
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: ago that are like we're trying to tell the story

743
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: behind the story. So I haven't been super deep in

744
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: like the Rollout, but I'll say Polo g dropped one

745
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: of the best projects this year to me, um uh gritty, heartfelt,

746
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: soul full, um real um Spillage Village. I'm very I'm

747
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: keeping my eye on them. I'm very much keeping my

748
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: eye on them because they already have like so many

749
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: of my favorite artists separately, and now I feel like

750
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know if I'm going to over

751
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: overhype it. I don't want to say the Avengers, but

752
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: it's like like I feel like they're really coming together

753
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: and like all the rings are being put to I

754
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: don't know, uh yeah, um who else? Who else? And

755
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 1: always I mean I just have I just have favorites

756
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: that I always go back to, like like Kendrick no name,

757
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: um out with something new. I don't know you ever heard?

758
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: I heard heard Kendrick's next one is going to have

759
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: kind of like a rock theme to it. Really, that's

760
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: what That's what I heard, So okay stuff what I mean?

761
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: I mean he was leaning a little bit into more

762
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: into more, like into more percussion and gets hard than

763
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: usual on damn right yeah yeah, but I mean like

764
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: the yeah, the track that he had with Bono, and

765
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: like if if he kind of takes that queue and

766
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: just goes off with like if you had a whole

767
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: album that was nothing but those songs, right yeah? Okay,

768
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: Nickas needs to just stop wrapp him yea yeah? Alright, Well,

769
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: where can we find your podcast? Where should people tune

770
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: in to listen? And when? Yeah? Yeah, Louder Than a

771
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: Riot drops every Thursday in your phees twelve and one Eastern.

772
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: Check for it, subscribe and stay ready. You can find

773
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: out on Apple podcast, Bodify or wherever you find your

774
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: podcast and if you wanna, um, if you want a

775
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: hollyback and tap in and tweet at us. We're at

776
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: Louder than the Riot where that what's up? Thank you

777
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: guys for talking with us. Yeah, I would be surprised

778
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: how many black people who do not talk to you

779
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: about this podcast. So it was great. Well, please spread

780
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: the word about waiting our reparations. Alright, music discussion time.

781
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about some contemporary tracks today, some

782
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: new things and their relevancy to the ongoing political discourse

783
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 1: of the day. So what do we got first, Marai? So,

784
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: jim Jones is back a little bit talking about the

785
00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: election last week with his new track actually titled election.

786
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: Let's give it a lesson real quickers you want to

787
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: reapproaching the next election, trying to coach you up? Stuck down,

788
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: it's just deception. This is one of those I mean,

789
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: I think it's cool. I always hey, I am advocate

790
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: of old Nick is still doing it. That's like, like,

791
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: I love I love seeing that ship and it's dope

792
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: to see Jimmy back and forth. But this definitely kind

793
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: of comes across as Jimmy had a new track that

794
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: was out and he wanted to put it out around

795
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: the time of the election, so he named it Election Day.

796
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: There was like two bars at the beginning of that

797
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: that had anything to do with the election, and the

798
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: rest of it was just you know, the capo the capo.

799
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: I don't really think this is like Jim Jones's statement

800
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: on the election him in particular, I've heard him speak

801
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: about the election more in like actual interviews than he

802
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: mentioned in the song. Yeah. I mean, I was interviewed

803
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: but Magazine recently and they asked me about um not

804
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: like whether or not are an artists try to raise

805
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: awareness about issues for economic reasons try to capitalize off

806
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: of like a cultural zee guys. And my response was that, like,

807
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: I don't. I feel like, maybe I'm naive and maybe

808
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: I like to believe the best in people, but I

809
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: feel like what comes off what comes across as an

810
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: attempt to like hijack a cultural moment, like titling a

811
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: song election and then mostly talking about your jewels and

812
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: stuff is really just like a lack of something really

813
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: interesting to say. I mean, there's a problem. That's the

814
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: widespre problem. We had an episode about hip hop artists

815
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: and their duty to participate in the discourse around social

816
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: movements when it's like, frankly, if you don't have you

817
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: to say, that's okay. Don't position yourself as someone with

818
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,439
Speaker 1: a very nuance to take if you don't, because you're

819
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: taking away air. You're you know, in uh, you know,

820
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: an ecosystem. There's a lot of people who are art

821
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: organizing on the ground who need to be heard, and

822
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: so it's fine if you don't have any to say.

823
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: I don't think, um, I agree with you on that

824
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: that that is a thing. I'm not sure that that's

825
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: what is going on. Like, I think this is more

826
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: akin to uh. I mean, rappers do stuff like this now,

827
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: where like they'll name a song after a celebrity or

828
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: an athlete and it has nothing to do with the

829
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 1: song is about, but you know it gets the song

830
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: traction on social media because it's named after someone famous,

831
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: or it's named after something that's going on. I think

832
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: this is similar to that. You you look in a

833
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: feed of something and you see, oh, Jim Jones has

834
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: a new track called Election Day, and you know, some

835
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: people might listen to it with no expectations at all,

836
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: but you know a good amount of people are gonna

837
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: be like, oh, what does Jim Jones have to say

838
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: about the election and you would be disappointed with this.

839
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: But it's a hot song though if you like that,

840
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: like off kilter dip set flow it is. It is

841
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: more aesthetic than it is like yeah, it's it's in

842
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: a that I more than it's it's a it's an

843
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: aesthetic style choice. I think you know obviously none of it.

844
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: We haven't talked to Jim Johnson. We don't know, but

845
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: it feels more like you know, Okay, there's an election

846
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: my track yes, please please. And up next we got

847
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: a track from Nigerian rapper burn a Boy with his

848
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: song twenty, which was a tribute song for the Lackey massacre,

849
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: which we'll discuss in a little bit. Let's check this

850
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 1: out to come out playing open your money should not fire.

851
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: Now to fill you in on a little bit of

852
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: the Lackey massacre, we gotta fill you in a little

853
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: bit about the End Stars movement in Nigeria. So SO

854
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: Stars is the Special Anti Robbery Squad. It's a special

855
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: police unit in Nigeria that was originally started in nine

856
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 1: and throughout the years that it's been legged with accusations

857
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: of abuse from rape to extortion, kidnapping, intimidation, murder, even

858
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: committing acts of organized crime selling drugs and racketeering and

859
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So in two thousand seventeen, twitter campaign

860
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: was launched with the hashtag and Stars and built off

861
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: that movement and mass demonstration that followed it, it swelled

862
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: into an outpour of you know, people calling for Stars

863
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: to be disbanded and ended. Now, as the years have

864
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 1: gone by, this isn't necessarily the first time that there's

865
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: been calls to end the Stars, the Starters police unit,

866
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: and usually when it has gotten to a bit of

867
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: a crescendo, the government usually says, okay, we will disband

868
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: it so they can get everyone to calm down, and

869
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: they end up not just disbanding it. Um this time

870
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: it does appear to be different, as they have a

871
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: read that they're going to immediately begin disbanding Stars. That

872
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: will remain to be seen. But the amazing thing to

873
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: see is to to look and see that there's mass

874
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: demonstration and mass protests going on against police brutality and

875
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: all the way on the other end of the world

876
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: kind of coalescing with what we have going on here.

877
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: It's it's cool to see, perhaps you know, inspired to

878
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: greater mobilization by seeing what had happened in the United

879
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: States and internationally around the George Ford uprising over the summer.

880
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: I think it also really hearkens back to something as

881
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: the David talks about in Freedom, is constant struggle about

882
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: the importance of international solidarity and like a global abolitionist

883
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: movement because so much of like the person industrial complex,

884
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 1: like is transnational, Like the things that like the Israeli

885
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: defense forces are doing two folks in Palestine, like in

886
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: the US, we're sending cops over there to learn from

887
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: them and like bring those tactics back to America to brutalize,

888
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, protesters in Ferguson, Missouri thousand and fourteen, and

889
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: so like there's there's these global flows of like learning

890
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: how to abuse power and uh and ultimately it's it's

891
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: just a reminder of how many of our struggles are

892
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: the same and when we like band together and share tactics,

893
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: share resources, share information, to share capital both social and

894
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: like literal like monetary monetary resources with folks that are

895
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: fighting similar fights in other places, Like you know, we're

896
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: trying to deliberate everybody. Unfortunately, last month, the city of

897
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: Leaky was the site of what is now known as

898
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: the Leaky massacre. Members of the Nigerian Armed Forces open

899
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: fire on peaceful and stars protesters in Leaky at the

900
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: Leaky tollgate and Lego State in Nigeria. Officials have not

901
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: disclosed the number of casualties originally, but but there was

902
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: reported to have been at least fifteen people killed in

903
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: the incident. In addition, there have been complaints about missing persons,

904
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: friends and family members, and few have been confirmed to

905
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: be in the hospital and critical condition a day after

906
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: the incident. This was on the twenty one of October.

907
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: The government of Lego State initially denied any loss of

908
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: life by the gunfire and even the phrasing of that

909
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: laws of life by gunfire. They denied that the police

910
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: had murdered people, but later they admitted an interview at

911
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: CNN that two persons were killed. Amnesty International stated that

912
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: at least twelve protesters were killed in what the organization

913
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: described as extra judicial killing. I mean, I never lived

914
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: in Nigeria before, so I never experienced oars. But I

915
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: know when I was living in Cameroon around my teenage years.

916
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: You know, you start going out and shoot like that.

917
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: I definitely have experience with the shake down nature of

918
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:07,919
Speaker 1: African police forces for sure, So that's definitely a common thing,

919
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: like extortion, like getting extorted by the cops over there

920
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and that sort of ship is

921
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 1: happening to kids whose parents are diplomats in business. People

922
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: like those kids are getting locked up and your friends

923
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: gotta go bail you out and ship like that, or

924
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: scrounge up some money so they can pay off the

925
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: cops to let you go so that you don't get

926
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: in trouble with your parents and ship like that. So

927
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: you can only imagine what's actually happening to the you know,

928
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: actual local populations, what type of abuse as they're subject

929
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: to by the police there. But damn even explaining all that, ship,

930
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: we kinda we kind of lost track of the song.

931
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: So the song Burner Boys, let's talk about that a

932
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: little bit. My first initial reaction is fire flames. Yeah,

933
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: and like it's got like a like a soulful, like

934
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: contemplative kind of vibe where but at the same time,

935
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: the rhythms, perhaps it's just a cultural nuance that I'm

936
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: not aware of because I'm sucking American. But it feels

937
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: like celebratory the same time, like flabratory of bows that

938
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: are that were lost. It's like a celebration of life

939
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: more than a morning of death. Um. It reminds me

940
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: of when, you know, when I was a kid, my

941
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: mom used to listen to quite a bit of you know,

942
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: like anti apartheid like music just from different you know,

943
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: regions and stuff like that. So it kind of reminds

944
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: me a little bit of that vibe, has that spirit

945
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: to it, like like move real movement music type, you know. Um,

946
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: now that that that song is really fresh, I've never

947
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: heard of Burner Boy before, but I'm sure that my

948
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: mom has. My mom is quite the consumer of like

949
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: Nigerian entertainment stuff. She loves Nigerian movies and and she's

950
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: always trying to put me onto the new Nigerian music

951
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: that's coming out. And I'm always like, yeah, Mom, I'll

952
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: get to it. Get to it. Well. Our last song

953
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: for consideration today, Uh. It was just dropped last week

954
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: by Drakio the Ruler who is out of jail after

955
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: three years. South Central Drakio the Ruler has been released

956
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: from jail last and it's clearly dead set and picking

957
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: up where we left off, according to his attorney, remediately

958
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: pumping and a jail. He went at the studio for

959
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: six hours to work on new music, including this track

960
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: by Stone Matter off his upcoming album We Know the

961
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: Truth three shots based in a final naked I'm an

962
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: leaving bid in the stream with his eye from seven

963
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: when I left the coupon you saw with banana peels.

964
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: I think that's like a callie thing. Now, it's because

965
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: that's how blue Face raps. That's that's that's I mean,

966
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not too versed on it, but that

967
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: reminds me of like the blue I don't know who

968
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: came up with at first, but that's like that off

969
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: kilter blue Face style where like always seems like it's

970
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,439
Speaker 1: teetering the edge of just completely falling off the flow,

971
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: but it just it still keeps it up. I wonder

972
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: if he's been advised by his attorneys to like be

973
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: cool in his lyrics and in his music videos now,

974
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: because so the full story is that, uh, you know,

975
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: he had. He emerged victorious from pretty harrowing legal battle

976
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: against murdered attempted murder charges. He was originally arrested in

977
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: seventeen for an incident that left the twenty four year

978
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: old man dead. He was acquitted in twenty nineteen, but

979
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: what kept was kept locked up as prosecutors used his

980
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: lyrics and music video is proof that Draco's rap group

981
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: Two Greedy Stink stick with Stink Team. Okay, the two

982
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: Greedy Stink Team was a violent gang in Dracio as

983
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: the leader. In California, if you are a gang member,

984
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: you can be charged for crimes other members of your

985
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: supposed gang committed. Earlier this year, he recorded thank You

986
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: for Using GTL, which was recorded entirely over the phone

987
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: in prison. And GTL is the telecommunications company that it's

988
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: like a for profit provider of phone services to folks

989
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: in jail. Um, And so so that was his way

990
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: sticking it in, sticking it to him. Yeah, I mean,

991
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: he was in solitary confinement for nine months out of

992
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: the three years that he was locked up, and so

993
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: that he used his time with relative freedom while inside

994
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: to record an album that Pitchfork actually called some one

995
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: of the best albums that this year. It's pretty dope.

996
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, I wonder if like now that he's out um,

997
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: the prosecutors offered him a deal of time served, and

998
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: now he's back to his family and stuff. I wonder if,

999
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: like in his lyrics and music videos, is gonna be

1000
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: like a little more careful. Um well, I mean, judging

1001
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: from this song, it doesn't sound like it. I mean,

1002
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: he's still talking about spraying people up and stuff. Look,

1003
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: people are probably gonna get mad, but I gotta I

1004
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,959
Speaker 1: gotta keep it real. A lot of rappers wrap about

1005
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: out the stuff that he raps about. It's kind of

1006
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: like a common thing now. I don't know how many

1007
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: rappers are out there talking about Man, I was just

1008
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: mind of my own business and I just got hit

1009
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: out the blue with a double murder charge. Don't you

1010
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: hate it when that happens? So, you know, I don't know.

1011
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad that another dude is another black man

1012
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: ain't in jail. But you know, as far as using

1013
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: his lyrics against them, again, I think that's bullshit. I'm

1014
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: not sure how like widespread of a practice that is,

1015
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: like our d as across Is there an epidemic of

1016
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: d as across the country really utilizing rappers lyrics to

1017
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: get put bogus charges on them, because that would insinuate

1018
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: that every rapper has multiple murder convictions going on right

1019
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: now because everybody is snitching on themselves about how many

1020
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: people they're spraying, and that very well maybe the case,

1021
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, it seems unlikely. So I know there

1022
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: are some cases where Motherfucker's is genuinely like, yo, I

1023
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: killed this dude on this day, and I put the

1024
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: evidence in my mom's house is underneath my floorboard. If

1025
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: you check their at eight pm, you'll find it. So

1026
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: there's some people who are actually leaving evidence in their

1027
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: rhymes and ship and I don't know yet, there's profiling

1028
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: Motherfucker's with their rap lyrics, and then there's detective work.

1029
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: I think in this particular case where his music videos

1030
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: and his lyrics were used to like try to saddle

1031
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: him with like enhanced like gang like gang enhancements for

1032
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: his charges. It's kind of bullshit because like I think that,

1033
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: and I've seen this in you know, as a legislator

1034
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: in my own community. Or it's like you see a

1035
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: bunch of young niggas hanging out and it's like call

1036
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: the cops. There's some dus like, Okay, these kids are

1037
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: fourteen years old and there's not after school programs for them.

1038
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: To be in and ship and they're just hanging out,

1039
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: and they look like a gang because they're just kids

1040
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: and they're just hanging out with their friends. And so

1041
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: the idea that any sort of like organization of black

1042
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: people that is not institutionalized in some way is like

1043
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: a gang, it's very dangerous. And so I think in

1044
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: this particular case, like that's total bullshit. And then you know,

1045
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: the Drakos attorney himself, John hardasaki Um called him out

1046
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: for you know, wasting years and millions of dollars trying

1047
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: to person this guy for life. Um, and so it's

1048
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: it's kind of bullshit. But I mean, I just but

1049
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think it's I fear unwise for

1050
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: rappers till I be talking about the crimes they do.

1051
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: I fear it was the big details in the music.

1052
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: As far as the music end goes, it's um, I mean,

1053
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 1: the song is fresh, you know, if if you can

1054
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: get into that flow, it's kind of like the Jim

1055
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: Jones thing. That's that's funny. We have two very specific

1056
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: flows in the music that we listened to today. And

1057
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: then this particular case. There's so much to unpack here

1058
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: from the way our tax about dollars have spent in

1059
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: the judicial system, plea bargaining, California gang enhancement laws, the

1060
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: importance electing progressive district attorney, the question of whether progressive

1061
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: prosecutors even exist? You know, is that like in that

1062
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: like an oxymoron? Exactly? Um for profits communications companies like

1063
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: storting incarcerated people, as exemplified in his album Thank You

1064
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 1: for using TL. I mean, we can do a whole

1065
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: fucking episode on this case. Well, it's gonna have to

1066
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: wait for another episode because I'm getting antsy and I

1067
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: feel like rapping. Let's get a beat. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, waitation,

1068
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: yeah yo yo, dope, knife on the microphone. I'm never

1069
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: quiet eat MC's till I really need a diet. Motherfucking

1070
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: step to me. Do you just retire? You hope one

1071
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: day I'll beat louder than a riot, bust re stals

1072
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: and a bus my bars, I smoke, man. We need

1073
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: till I'm hot life stars to support everybody trying to

1074
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: outline stars. I love everybody. No, I'm not hard. I

1075
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: got nothing. I'm gonna stop in this place. I don't

1076
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: want to leave no evidence for my case, just in

1077
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 1: case the d want to listen up, I'm done. I'm done, Yo,

1078
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: legal freaking what the kids start from? Alenatuda, Jerry, we

1079
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: find in stars, messing conservation. Yeah, we pined like piggies.

1080
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: You're about it. Listening to Rod in Sydney and if

1081
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: you run in with a friend of three, that's again

1082
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: watch out. You'll give the depth pendalty and I got

1083
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: plenty beats from the background. Yeah, I'm never about to

1084
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: back down. Everybody at clown, I'm wan, I'm dope knife

1085
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: and we are waiting on reparations. See you next week.

1086
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: Waiting on Reparations as a production of I Heeart Radio.

1087
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: Listen to Waiting on Repper rations on the I Heart

1088
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1089
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: M