WEBVTT - Episode 2: The Congressman 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.836 Pushkin. 0:00:20.316 --> 0:00:23.876 So, Jake, let me take you back to January twenty 0:00:23.956 --> 0:00:27.156 twenty three. It's a couple weeks after George Santos has 0:00:27.196 --> 0:00:29.836 been exposed, and he shows up in Washington, DC. 0:00:31.036 --> 0:00:33.436 That was the first day I saw him in person. 0:00:34.076 --> 0:00:37.076 I remember we were walking through the Cannon House office 0:00:37.076 --> 0:00:40.876 building and you could hear a pin drop because people 0:00:40.876 --> 0:00:43.516 were like, that's George Santos. Did you see that was 0:00:43.516 --> 0:00:47.796 George Santos. This is Masa Wumer. She was George Santos's 0:00:47.796 --> 0:00:51.996 communications director. You heard from her in our first episode. 0:00:52.156 --> 0:00:55.556 She was actually hired back in December of twenty twenty two, 0:00:56.276 --> 0:00:59.116 and her first day and the first day she would 0:00:59.156 --> 0:01:03.476 actually meet Santos in person, came in January. The amount 0:01:03.476 --> 0:01:06.236 of reporters and cameras that were outside of our office, 0:01:06.556 --> 0:01:09.036 it reminded me of something that you would see like 0:01:09.916 --> 0:01:13.036 back in the nineties, like with when Princess Diana would 0:01:13.036 --> 0:01:13.876 show up somewhere. 0:01:14.676 --> 0:01:18.516 Wow, this was Nace's first day on the job as 0:01:18.636 --> 0:01:22.076 the communications director whatever, But it was also George Santos's 0:01:22.116 --> 0:01:25.516 basically first day. I mean, the scandal's happening, but he 0:01:25.516 --> 0:01:28.996 hasn't even started his tenures of congressman, or he's just starting. 0:01:29.236 --> 0:01:29.556 Correct. 0:01:29.676 --> 0:01:32.516 Yeah, their first day is the same first day, and 0:01:33.036 --> 0:01:35.796 the press are also camped outside the office on that 0:01:35.836 --> 0:01:39.916 first day, and they remain outside the office even as 0:01:39.956 --> 0:01:43.076 the week's dragon. They're not really losing interest in the 0:01:43.116 --> 0:01:44.116 George Sandos story. 0:01:44.836 --> 0:01:49.956 I've had multiple meetings with individual reporters and they're all 0:01:49.956 --> 0:01:55.076 saying the same thing. We can't leave until he speaks 0:01:55.116 --> 0:01:57.396 to the press, until we get a sound bite. We 0:01:57.436 --> 0:02:00.156 have to stay. And they said, well, we're going to 0:02:00.196 --> 0:02:00.476 fix this. 0:02:02.436 --> 0:02:05.076 So she realizes, Okay, well this is not dying down. 0:02:05.436 --> 0:02:08.196 We're going to book him on some big name show. 0:02:08.436 --> 0:02:11.436 He's going to do a long sit down interview with 0:02:11.516 --> 0:02:14.636 a respected journalist, and we're going to prep him for that, 0:02:14.676 --> 0:02:17.196 and we're going to spend this time before we have 0:02:17.276 --> 0:02:19.436 the interview even set up, We're going to spend time prepping. 0:02:20.316 --> 0:02:22.756 The hard part was getting him to sit down and prep. 0:02:23.516 --> 0:02:26.636 He was very just all over the place, and so 0:02:27.436 --> 0:02:29.516 I put out like this little list of like the 0:02:29.596 --> 0:02:32.396 fifteen lies that I've already heard in the news, because, 0:02:32.396 --> 0:02:36.116 as I said, at this time, it was just you know, 0:02:36.156 --> 0:02:42.836 obviously his background from you know, work, family, religion, and 0:02:42.916 --> 0:02:44.716 then the new stuff that was popping up. 0:02:45.436 --> 0:02:47.916 What are the burning questions of the burning issues at 0:02:47.916 --> 0:02:50.356 this particular moment that people want to ask him. 0:02:50.396 --> 0:02:54.196 At this point, the press is looking into a bunch 0:02:54.196 --> 0:02:56.476 of allegations that have come to light, and one of 0:02:56.476 --> 0:03:00.196 those stories is that Santos had faced multiple evictions in 0:03:00.236 --> 0:03:04.836 New York while also claiming publicly that he was a landlord. 0:03:04.996 --> 0:03:07.356 So there's an inherent contradiction there. 0:03:07.476 --> 0:03:10.196 That seems like so telling that he's being evicted and 0:03:10.236 --> 0:03:13.596 yet he's claiming to be a landlord. This is just 0:03:13.716 --> 0:03:14.676 stark contrast. 0:03:15.196 --> 0:03:19.236 Yeah, there's also new info and new allegations coming out 0:03:19.796 --> 0:03:21.596 basically on a daily basis. 0:03:21.876 --> 0:03:25.196 A New Jersey veteran says that the congressman organized a 0:03:25.236 --> 0:03:28.476 fundraiser for his dying service dog back in twenty sixteen, 0:03:28.916 --> 0:03:30.596 only to pocket the money himself. 0:03:30.676 --> 0:03:34.796 In Brazil, a local performer claims Santos was Katara Ravash 0:03:34.996 --> 0:03:38.036 and that he once performed as a drag queen, something 0:03:38.036 --> 0:03:39.956 the New York congressman strongly denies. 0:03:40.076 --> 0:03:41.636 Hash media reports quote. 0:03:41.636 --> 0:03:45.236 Two former Santos roommates told Patch several items went missing 0:03:45.676 --> 0:03:49.276 while they lived with Santos, including phones, expensive dress shirts, 0:03:49.316 --> 0:03:50.756 and checks from a check book. 0:03:51.356 --> 0:03:54.156 So it's just basically, every time Lisa turns around, there's 0:03:54.196 --> 0:03:57.476 a new story that she has to scramble, figure out 0:03:57.476 --> 0:04:00.276 what their statement is going to be, and follow up 0:04:00.316 --> 0:04:03.036 with all the journalists that are asking her questions. 0:04:04.516 --> 0:04:09.916 So when Nisa is prepping him for this this interview, 0:04:10.316 --> 0:04:12.836 what's her take on it. Does she feel that he 0:04:13.036 --> 0:04:16.476 is being like forthright with her? Does she still have 0:04:16.796 --> 0:04:21.316 faith in him as someone who is credible or not. 0:04:22.076 --> 0:04:24.836 I think Nasa is stepping into this role and saying, 0:04:25.076 --> 0:04:26.996 I have been hired to do a job, and I'm 0:04:27.036 --> 0:04:30.196 going to do the best job I can do despite 0:04:30.196 --> 0:04:34.796 the circumstances. And you know, Nasa told me that Santos 0:04:34.836 --> 0:04:38.676 was always maintaining to her in their private conversations that 0:04:38.716 --> 0:04:42.196 he had answers for all of these things. And so 0:04:43.196 --> 0:04:45.956 when she's in that position where this is her boss, 0:04:47.156 --> 0:04:49.036 she wants to believe him, and she wants to have 0:04:49.116 --> 0:04:50.836 his back, and she wants to set him up for 0:04:50.836 --> 0:04:52.956 success because her boats tied to his. 0:04:53.116 --> 0:04:56.876 You know, oh my god, it's just like it. 0:04:58.316 --> 0:05:00.236 Even though I was with him for five months, it 0:05:00.316 --> 0:05:02.756 probably felt like five hundred years at that point. And 0:05:04.996 --> 0:05:08.716 my joke is always my theme song every day felt 0:05:08.796 --> 0:05:11.996 like was the led Zeppelin song when the levee breaks. 0:05:12.716 --> 0:05:16.196 It's just waiting for that to happen. So oh wait, 0:05:16.236 --> 0:05:16.756 it did. 0:05:20.116 --> 0:05:22.796 Keeps this God. 0:05:27.396 --> 0:05:30.036 So in this episode, we're going to get into what 0:05:30.196 --> 0:05:33.276 Nisa and others would come to learn about George Santos 0:05:33.676 --> 0:05:37.756 while trying to sort fact from fiction stories that he's 0:05:37.796 --> 0:05:42.396 told about his family, specifically his mother. And while these 0:05:42.396 --> 0:05:46.556 stories are not necessarily related to the charges against him, 0:05:47.116 --> 0:05:50.876 I think they reveal something deeper about his character. And 0:05:50.956 --> 0:05:55.396 there's one story he told in particular that really struck 0:05:55.396 --> 0:06:00.596 an earth. This is deep cover George Santos Episode two, 0:06:01.436 --> 0:06:02.196 The Congressman. 0:06:07.156 --> 0:06:08.676 There are a few people in this world you should 0:06:08.716 --> 0:06:12.676 not lie. Your lawyer, your doctor, and your communications director. 0:06:13.236 --> 0:06:16.316 By the way, I would ideally include spouse in there 0:06:16.316 --> 0:06:16.716 as well. 0:06:18.796 --> 0:06:22.916 Just say to say, spoken like a true husband. Yess Okay. 0:06:23.116 --> 0:06:25.196 So how does it go when she tries to prep him? 0:06:25.596 --> 0:06:27.556 Just getting him to sit down and prep was always 0:06:27.596 --> 0:06:29.276 it was like it's like getting a child to sit 0:06:29.316 --> 0:06:32.396 down and do their homework, so very hard. 0:06:33.156 --> 0:06:35.956 But she does get the chance to prep him briefly, 0:06:36.716 --> 0:06:41.076 and at a certain point in these conversations, the tone shifts. 0:06:41.356 --> 0:06:44.596 I'd say one of the hardest conversations I had was 0:06:45.636 --> 0:06:46.516 the death of his mother. 0:06:47.676 --> 0:06:53.116 So in twenty twenty one, George Santos tweeted nine to eleven, 0:06:53.196 --> 0:06:59.356 claimed my mother's life. And in the aftermath of the 0:06:59.356 --> 0:07:04.116 New York Times reporting, people find that tweet and they 0:07:04.116 --> 0:07:08.476 start asking more questions about that, and it was actually 0:07:08.516 --> 0:07:12.356 mentioned on Santos's campaign website. It's actually still on his 0:07:12.436 --> 0:07:16.956 website to this day. It says, quote, George's mother was 0:07:17.036 --> 0:07:20.796 in her office in the South Tower on September eleventh, 0:07:20.876 --> 0:07:23.756 two thousand and one, when the horrific events of that 0:07:23.836 --> 0:07:28.036 day unfolded, And it goes on to say she survived 0:07:28.036 --> 0:07:31.636 the tragic events on September eleventh, but she passed away 0:07:31.756 --> 0:07:34.396 a few years later when she lost her battle to cancer. 0:07:35.596 --> 0:07:36.476 And this is. 0:07:36.396 --> 0:07:40.196 One of the allegations against him that this is not true. 0:07:40.516 --> 0:07:43.276 People do not find evidence to substantiate the fact that 0:07:43.396 --> 0:07:47.396 his mother was there. And NASA knows that this is 0:07:47.396 --> 0:07:50.236 something he's going to get asked about, so in her 0:07:50.316 --> 0:07:52.596 attempts to prep him, this is something that they talk 0:07:52.596 --> 0:07:53.436 about in detail. 0:07:53.556 --> 0:07:55.236 Wait, what are the holes that people are poking in 0:07:55.276 --> 0:07:57.996 this story? At least initially or are there any. 0:07:57.996 --> 0:08:00.716 So when Santos's tweet comes to like, there's a lot 0:08:00.716 --> 0:08:04.076 of questions because when you say nine to eleven claim 0:08:04.116 --> 0:08:08.476 my mother's life, that seems to imply that your mother 0:08:08.556 --> 0:08:09.516 died on nine eleven. 0:08:09.756 --> 0:08:11.796 Yeah, that's what I thought when you when you read it. 0:08:12.036 --> 0:08:15.716 Yeah, And then it quickly becomes clear through reporting and 0:08:15.796 --> 0:08:19.076 just public records that his mother died in twenty sixteen. 0:08:19.156 --> 0:08:20.556 And one of the things we had talked about with 0:08:20.676 --> 0:08:23.276 him was just did she because I saw the timeline 0:08:23.316 --> 0:08:28.076 of her death and I had thought, well, I remembered 0:08:28.276 --> 0:08:32.476 John Stewart was starting to highlight a lot of problems 0:08:32.476 --> 0:08:35.116 that like first responders were starting to die as a 0:08:35.156 --> 0:08:39.796 result of nine to eleven from exposure to the ash 0:08:39.996 --> 0:08:42.276 and dust that came from the World Trade Center. 0:08:43.316 --> 0:08:47.956 So Nisa, in that moment understands that maybe it was 0:08:47.996 --> 0:08:51.116 just an error in how Santos chose to phrase the tweet, 0:08:51.836 --> 0:08:55.236 but that his mother died in twenty sixteen from cancer 0:08:55.876 --> 0:08:58.836 which was linked to her time at Ground zero. That 0:08:59.076 --> 0:09:02.876 was the claim that Santos was making. OKAYNSA is saying, Okay, 0:09:02.916 --> 0:09:05.316 if you're going to be making this claim in public, 0:09:05.996 --> 0:09:08.116 then let's break it down. Let's talk through the details 0:09:08.116 --> 0:09:10.636 of this because you will be asked about it, right. 0:09:10.676 --> 0:09:13.356 And it seems like he can kind of make that 0:09:13.476 --> 0:09:17.716 argument some incredibly because on the website it's saying she 0:09:17.796 --> 0:09:20.356 passed away a few years later when she lost her 0:09:20.556 --> 0:09:22.916 battle to cancer. You know, it seems to me like 0:09:22.916 --> 0:09:24.196 he's actually got some cover here. 0:09:24.676 --> 0:09:27.476 Yes, and she's quickly picking up on what he's saying, 0:09:27.516 --> 0:09:30.396 which is that no, no, no, I'm claiming that she 0:09:30.516 --> 0:09:33.316 died later as a result of her exposure to ground zero. 0:09:34.236 --> 0:09:37.196 Okay, but Nesa wants details. 0:09:38.556 --> 0:09:40.236 And I asked him, I said, did she die as 0:09:40.276 --> 0:09:43.156 a result of nine to eleven? And he said yes. 0:09:43.196 --> 0:09:46.156 I said, okay, so let's just break it down. Was 0:09:46.196 --> 0:09:47.836 she in the north of the South Tower? And he 0:09:48.196 --> 0:09:50.516 said the South Tower? I said, all right, so she 0:09:50.596 --> 0:09:53.716 was in the South Tower on September eleventh, Okay, like, 0:09:53.796 --> 0:09:58.276 do you remember what floors she worked on? And he 0:09:58.316 --> 0:10:00.396 just you know, she worked for a cleaning company. So 0:10:00.636 --> 0:10:02.236 I did not have the He did not give out 0:10:02.276 --> 0:10:04.476 the specific floors. I think he I think he tried 0:10:04.476 --> 0:10:06.636 to say it was like the thirty fourth or something, 0:10:06.916 --> 0:10:10.196 and I said, okay, Well, so she did work in 0:10:10.236 --> 0:10:12.396 the World Trade Center and he said yes. I said, 0:10:12.396 --> 0:10:18.196 all right, so she got out of the building. Yes, 0:10:18.356 --> 0:10:20.516 she got out of the building. I said, okay, so 0:10:20.556 --> 0:10:25.236 she escaped, she's she's safe. And I said, but you know, 0:10:25.436 --> 0:10:29.356 was she exposed to the dust and he said yes, 0:10:29.396 --> 0:10:30.556 And I thought, okay. 0:10:31.636 --> 0:10:33.836 So finally this is starting to make sense for Nissa. 0:10:33.956 --> 0:10:37.476 She can understand the narrative that Santos has been telling, 0:10:38.196 --> 0:10:40.356 and even though he doesn't have all of the details, 0:10:41.156 --> 0:10:45.156 NASA is advising him. You know, this is a powerful story. 0:10:45.436 --> 0:10:48.396 This is an experience that people can relate to. 0:10:49.076 --> 0:10:51.556 You know, people will want to see a human side 0:10:51.596 --> 0:10:53.476 to you like that. And I said, maybe that's just 0:10:53.516 --> 0:10:54.756 that's something you should talk about. 0:10:55.236 --> 0:10:55.556 Hmm. 0:10:56.116 --> 0:11:00.196 It's interesting because I heard that tape and I hear 0:11:00.236 --> 0:11:02.956 her kind of poking a little bit too. 0:11:03.116 --> 0:11:05.516 Well, right, she's doing her job. She's saying, I'm trying 0:11:05.516 --> 0:11:07.956 to prep you for these interviews. Here's all of the 0:11:08.036 --> 0:11:10.996 questions that you may be asked about this, So let's 0:11:10.996 --> 0:11:13.076 try to get some specifics down. 0:11:12.916 --> 0:11:13.996 Right, m hm. 0:11:15.676 --> 0:11:18.476 And then a few weeks later, I think the New 0:11:18.556 --> 0:11:21.916 York Times or MSNBC had reached out and said they 0:11:21.916 --> 0:11:26.116 had found proof that she wasn't in the country, and 0:11:26.196 --> 0:11:30.476 I thought, oh my god, this is like, why are 0:11:30.516 --> 0:11:37.436 you doing this? It just I thought why, like why? 0:11:38.196 --> 0:11:42.476 I mean, that's the question, right, Does she have any 0:11:42.516 --> 0:11:43.676 answer to that question? 0:11:44.476 --> 0:11:46.676 I would argue NASA is still looking for her why 0:11:47.916 --> 0:11:50.596 And NISA isn't the only one that's trying to make 0:11:50.636 --> 0:11:53.236 sense out of all this. The guy that I think 0:11:53.276 --> 0:11:56.676 has gone the deepest down the rabbit hole is a 0:11:56.716 --> 0:12:00.476 journalist's named Mark Gisano, and what he's found reshaped the 0:12:00.476 --> 0:12:04.276 way I think about George Santos. That's coming up next. 0:12:12.876 --> 0:12:15.876 I had to call the guy who has done, in 0:12:15.916 --> 0:12:21.276 my opinion, the best reporting on Santos's family and his background. 0:12:22.036 --> 0:12:25.036 His name is Mark Gisano, and he wrote a book 0:12:25.196 --> 0:12:27.436 with a very long title. 0:12:27.916 --> 0:12:31.396 The book is called The Fabulous, the Lying, Hustling, drifting, stealing, 0:12:31.436 --> 0:12:33.396 and very American legend of George Santos. 0:12:34.396 --> 0:12:38.076 Mark worked for Newsday, basically one of the only major 0:12:38.116 --> 0:12:41.956 newspapers left on Long Island, and he's covered Santos since 0:12:41.996 --> 0:12:42.916 his first campaign. 0:12:43.756 --> 0:12:45.796 Back then, he sort of had to pick up the 0:12:45.796 --> 0:12:48.236 phone because no one was really calling him, and so 0:12:48.276 --> 0:12:49.836 he would he would answer me or he would send 0:12:49.836 --> 0:12:51.636 a statement or he would have someone call me. 0:12:52.716 --> 0:12:55.996 What was Mark's early take on Santos, like in those 0:12:56.036 --> 0:12:57.556 first interactions. 0:12:57.676 --> 0:13:02.156 So Mark told me that Santos seemed somewhat evasive. 0:13:02.716 --> 0:13:06.356 He definitely, you know, kind of would allied details and 0:13:06.396 --> 0:13:08.596 sort of tell you stuff that didn't totally make sense. 0:13:09.156 --> 0:13:11.156 But it was hard to tell in the beginning. This 0:13:11.236 --> 0:13:13.156 is what a lot of first time candidates. 0:13:12.676 --> 0:13:17.436 Are like, right, And as time went on, of course, 0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:22.636 it would become clear to Mark and everyone right that 0:13:22.796 --> 0:13:26.116 Santos was not being transparent about his life on the 0:13:26.116 --> 0:13:30.876 campaign trail. It strikes me reading through different stories of 0:13:30.916 --> 0:13:34.676 Santo's stories that he's told about himself that a lot 0:13:34.716 --> 0:13:37.956 of the stories about him seemed to start with the 0:13:37.956 --> 0:13:41.156 story of his mom. So what was the story about 0:13:41.196 --> 0:13:42.476 his mother that he was telling? 0:13:42.996 --> 0:13:45.276 Yeah, his mom was pretty central his campaign. You know, 0:13:45.596 --> 0:13:49.356 she really loomed large. He called her a Wall Street executive, 0:13:49.596 --> 0:13:52.356 you know, one of the first female executives on Wall 0:13:52.356 --> 0:13:54.676 Street or something of that effect. He said that she 0:13:54.916 --> 0:13:58.636 escaped the South Tower during nine to eleven. He said 0:13:58.676 --> 0:14:01.716 that she was a big political actor. He claims that 0:14:01.956 --> 0:14:04.756 she had donated over I think he said something like 0:14:04.796 --> 0:14:08.516 twenty years donated to Republican politicians. He even said that 0:14:08.556 --> 0:14:11.756 she campaigned for Giuliani, Rudy Giuliani, that is, and brought 0:14:11.916 --> 0:14:14.396 him along with her, that he had fond memories of this. 0:14:14.916 --> 0:14:17.676 So this was his the image that he painted of her. 0:14:17.836 --> 0:14:20.596 And the funny thing with Santos is that the truth 0:14:20.636 --> 0:14:24.636 and the fiction is sort of intermingled, and sometimes what 0:14:24.756 --> 0:14:26.476 starts as a pebble of truth, as one of his 0:14:26.516 --> 0:14:29.076 relatives told me, you know, turns into this kind of 0:14:29.196 --> 0:14:30.276 large mountain of lies. 0:14:31.316 --> 0:14:33.876 Well, there's a bunch to unpack there, but one thing 0:14:33.916 --> 0:14:36.276 that jumps out is that when he was talking to 0:14:36.396 --> 0:14:40.476 NASA about prepping for that press conference, NASA says that 0:14:41.396 --> 0:14:43.796 he described his mother as working for a cleaning company 0:14:43.916 --> 0:14:48.676 in the World Trade Center. So that's at odds with 0:14:48.716 --> 0:14:50.396 her being a Wall Street executive here. 0:14:50.636 --> 0:14:52.756 No, yes, you've hit on one of the first key 0:14:52.796 --> 0:14:56.516 discrepancies that people pick up on. You know. Santos tells 0:14:56.556 --> 0:15:01.556 this story about his mother, and because we have the Internet, 0:15:01.996 --> 0:15:06.316 everyone can kind of compare notes. He tells the story differently, 0:15:06.636 --> 0:15:10.716 so in certain tellings she's a financial executive, in other tellings, 0:15:11.636 --> 0:15:15.676 she's working as a cleaner. In the towers, and it's 0:15:15.716 --> 0:15:17.996 a bit hard to parse out if any of that 0:15:18.116 --> 0:15:22.476 is true. But also, you know, he's projecting a version 0:15:22.596 --> 0:15:26.636 of his mom that in many ways mirrors the version 0:15:26.636 --> 0:15:30.556 of himself that he was promoting. Mark is very keen 0:15:30.716 --> 0:15:36.036 to figure out what parts of the story that Santos 0:15:36.076 --> 0:15:38.836 told about his mom, what parts of that can be substantiated, 0:15:39.356 --> 0:15:42.516 and he even travels to Brazil to report out, you know, 0:15:42.596 --> 0:15:44.956 what the family's history there is. 0:15:44.956 --> 0:15:48.156 Like, so to be careful. I tried to really see 0:15:48.196 --> 0:15:50.796 what if any of that story about his mother was true. 0:15:51.236 --> 0:15:54.716 And all I can say is what we've found out 0:15:54.756 --> 0:15:58.316 is certainly not true. No campaign finance records show any 0:15:58.316 --> 0:16:01.636 evidence of her donating. She does not appear to have 0:16:01.716 --> 0:16:04.596 voted in any election in New York or elsewhere. She 0:16:04.876 --> 0:16:06.916 also does not appear to be a citizen, at least 0:16:06.956 --> 0:16:11.516 according to her own immigration records. So totally not, you know, 0:16:11.596 --> 0:16:12.876 not the story that he was telling. 0:16:13.516 --> 0:16:16.836 So pretty quickly Mark breaks this down and he's able 0:16:16.876 --> 0:16:20.036 to say, so much of the story that Santos tells 0:16:20.076 --> 0:16:23.236 about his mother just doesn't check out. 0:16:23.436 --> 0:16:25.636 Yeah, and what seems to be clear to me that 0:16:25.636 --> 0:16:29.716 there's a pattern here with Santo's which is where there 0:16:29.756 --> 0:16:34.156 are small lies. If you dig deeper, there are bigger lies. 0:16:34.476 --> 0:16:36.756 Yeah, it's just like Mark said, the pebble that becomes 0:16:36.756 --> 0:16:37.276 the mountain. 0:16:41.916 --> 0:16:45.716 Then there's this nine to eleven story, which very central 0:16:45.876 --> 0:16:48.876 to the story he was telling about her, and I 0:16:48.956 --> 0:16:51.836 think struck a nerve in New York where people do 0:16:51.956 --> 0:16:54.156 have nine to eleven stories and everyone kind of says, 0:16:54.396 --> 0:16:56.276 you know, talks about where you were that day, right, 0:16:56.636 --> 0:16:59.716 and doubly so on Long Island, where so many that 0:16:59.796 --> 0:17:03.756 his constituents were cops or firefighters, right, or bankers too, 0:17:03.796 --> 0:17:06.396 who were you know, in the building, So a big 0:17:06.436 --> 0:17:10.876 deal to lie about. And again, you know, very hard 0:17:10.916 --> 0:17:14.236 to prove a negative. But her own immigration paperwork said 0:17:14.236 --> 0:17:15.876 that she was not in the country at the time. 0:17:16.196 --> 0:17:19.356 In fact, she herself filed paperwork in I think it 0:17:19.396 --> 0:17:22.196 was June of that year from Nitsiroi, which is the 0:17:23.396 --> 0:17:26.676 city outside of Rio where she grew up. So again 0:17:26.756 --> 0:17:30.356 you can lie on paperwork. It's sometimes immigrants sort of 0:17:31.036 --> 0:17:33.276 don't aren't exactly clear on where they were and when. 0:17:33.756 --> 0:17:36.916 But no evidence to suggest that she was escaping, and 0:17:36.956 --> 0:17:40.956 in fact, in Santos's campaign materials, he said that she 0:17:41.156 --> 0:17:45.996 escaped the South Tower from her office as a financial 0:17:46.036 --> 0:17:49.196 executive right which again there's no evidence that she was 0:17:49.236 --> 0:17:51.316 involved in finance at all. 0:17:51.516 --> 0:17:55.996 So what do we actually know for sure about Santo's 0:17:56.236 --> 0:17:57.996 his family, their background. 0:17:59.076 --> 0:18:02.876 So the real story of George Santos starts in Queens. 0:18:03.996 --> 0:18:06.316 The family did not have a lot of money, you know, 0:18:06.396 --> 0:18:09.276 Santos says they he grew up in abject poverty, and 0:18:09.316 --> 0:18:14.396 that appears to be true. His mother, you know, took 0:18:14.396 --> 0:18:19.196 care of him and his sister. According to Mark, George 0:18:19.236 --> 0:18:23.716 Santos and his mother, Fatima had a very close but 0:18:23.876 --> 0:18:26.196 also complicated relationship. 0:18:27.036 --> 0:18:30.076 They seem to have been very close and also in 0:18:30.116 --> 0:18:33.316 the way that many close relationships work, also kind of 0:18:33.316 --> 0:18:36.036 butted heads a lot. I spoke to one person who 0:18:36.436 --> 0:18:38.796 you know, worked on the campaign with Santos. This is 0:18:38.876 --> 0:18:41.796 kind of later on after she's dead, years after she's dead, 0:18:41.836 --> 0:18:44.116 by the way, and Santos would still kind of have 0:18:44.236 --> 0:18:46.836 a kind of shakiness to his voice when he mentioned her, 0:18:46.916 --> 0:18:48.836 right in a way that didn't seem to be acting. 0:18:48.876 --> 0:18:51.716 It was kind of it was it seemed real. He 0:18:51.796 --> 0:18:55.236 would live with her as an adult, you know, from 0:18:55.276 --> 0:18:58.356 time to time they were actual roommates, and even that 0:18:58.476 --> 0:19:01.036 was kind of it would it would have its ups 0:19:01.036 --> 0:19:01.476 and downs. 0:19:01.516 --> 0:19:01.676 You know. 0:19:01.756 --> 0:19:04.636 There would be moments when he was living, say, you know, 0:19:04.636 --> 0:19:06.636 in another part of Queen's, and he would come to 0:19:06.716 --> 0:19:08.996 visit her and see her because he seemed to missed her, 0:19:09.396 --> 0:19:12.436 one roommate told me. And on the other hand, sometimes 0:19:12.476 --> 0:19:15.076 they were living together and he would get in these 0:19:15.156 --> 0:19:18.876 kind of huge fights with her, screaming, screaming, cursing so 0:19:18.996 --> 0:19:23.116 intense that his mother, Fatima, would go into her own 0:19:23.156 --> 0:19:26.236 bedroom and close the door and start crying. So this 0:19:26.356 --> 0:19:28.316 was kind of the back and forth with them. 0:19:29.716 --> 0:19:33.316 Okay, so he has this kind of stormy relationship with 0:19:33.356 --> 0:19:36.236 his mom, really close to living together. How old is 0:19:36.236 --> 0:19:37.956 he when when his mom gets cancer. 0:19:38.276 --> 0:19:41.716 He would have been in his late twenties when his 0:19:41.796 --> 0:19:43.836 mom died of cancer, And. 0:19:43.956 --> 0:19:46.836 How does that play out for Santos. 0:19:47.316 --> 0:19:51.236 Fatima gets sick, and Santos seems to have taken that 0:19:51.316 --> 0:19:54.196 very hard and tried to take care of her, tried 0:19:54.236 --> 0:19:54.796 to help her. 0:19:55.956 --> 0:20:00.156 While this is going on, Santos appears to have struggled 0:20:00.156 --> 0:20:02.476 to pay rent more than once. So at the time 0:20:02.516 --> 0:20:07.356 where his mother is sick with cancer, Santos is appearing 0:20:07.996 --> 0:20:11.076 in court, and Mark told me about one such moment 0:20:11.156 --> 0:20:12.596 like this back in twenty fifteen. 0:20:13.036 --> 0:20:15.236 At one time he shows up in court one of 0:20:15.236 --> 0:20:17.916 his interactions with housing court in New York, where he's 0:20:17.956 --> 0:20:20.036 trying to explain why he didn't pay the rent, and 0:20:20.116 --> 0:20:23.436 one of his excuses is that he's caring for his mother, right, 0:20:24.196 --> 0:20:26.436 which you know, don't know if that means that he 0:20:26.516 --> 0:20:28.676 wasn't actually able to pay, but it does sort of 0:20:28.716 --> 0:20:33.276 show their relationship and kind of their their bombs, their proximity. 0:20:34.276 --> 0:20:37.276 So she gets sick, she remains sick, and unfortunately she 0:20:37.556 --> 0:20:40.516 dies in twenty sixteen. Some people see this as a 0:20:40.556 --> 0:20:43.516 real moment of transition for Santos that he kind of 0:20:44.076 --> 0:20:47.476 loses obviously his sort of close friend, someone who's very 0:20:47.516 --> 0:20:50.076 important to him, and that that's when he seems to 0:20:50.156 --> 0:20:52.716 kind of lose control of his own story and narrative. 0:20:54.276 --> 0:20:56.916 That's really it's just really poignant, like the idea that 0:20:56.956 --> 0:20:59.956 he's like his mother's dying and he's basically so poor 0:20:59.996 --> 0:21:01.756 that he's going before the court and saying I can't 0:21:01.796 --> 0:21:03.676 pay my rent and I'm caring for my dying mother. 0:21:04.276 --> 0:21:07.956 It's so interesting he invents these stories to kind of 0:21:07.956 --> 0:21:12.116 engender our sympathy, but here it almost sounds like the 0:21:12.116 --> 0:21:16.876 real one is perfectly sympathetic in its truthful form. 0:21:17.196 --> 0:21:20.836 Yes, although I will say, because we were talking about 0:21:20.836 --> 0:21:25.436 George Santos, when you think you have reached the truth, 0:21:26.196 --> 0:21:27.356 there is usually a catch. 0:21:28.236 --> 0:21:30.916 Well, I mean, yeah, maybe I'm a complete sucker to 0:21:30.956 --> 0:21:33.076 think that he would tell the judge the truth. And 0:21:33.116 --> 0:21:34.756 I have this feeling that you're about to tell me 0:21:34.796 --> 0:21:37.676 something about his mother's death that's going to completely undermine 0:21:37.676 --> 0:21:39.236 the sympathy that I just fell for him. 0:21:39.636 --> 0:21:44.596 Unfortunately. Yes, So what Mark has found through his reporting 0:21:45.196 --> 0:21:50.356 around Fatima's death is just really striking. Specifically, one story 0:21:51.076 --> 0:21:52.436 around Fatima's. 0:21:51.916 --> 0:21:58.556 Funeral, Santa's mother, Fatima passes away, Santos says that he's 0:21:58.676 --> 0:22:01.076 unable to kind of pay for the funeral costs, right, 0:22:01.356 --> 0:22:03.636 He and his sister have had a hard time caring 0:22:03.676 --> 0:22:07.116 for her and they need money basically, And so luckily 0:22:07.676 --> 0:22:10.076 they're all part of this church community, Saint Rita's and 0:22:10.156 --> 0:22:13.996 Queen's very close knit, kind of beautiful church. It's a 0:22:13.996 --> 0:22:16.476 really nice kind of communal place, and people there remember 0:22:16.556 --> 0:22:19.836 Santos and his sister, and so the church has a 0:22:20.436 --> 0:22:22.596