1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

2
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 1: Channel one, thirty two shots. We proceused to believe it

3
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,560
Speaker 1: was a shooting um until they just kept going and going,

4
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,919
Speaker 1: and then Chase Haldeen left the stage, and then everybody

5
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:45,240
Speaker 1: started fleeing, and we started fleeing. We we had to

6
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 1: have a gate to get out. Sounded like at the firework,

7
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,240
Speaker 1: something that you think normally happens in Vega, and then

8
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,080
Speaker 1: it just started going blah blah blah. Through investigation. In response,

9
00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: we determined there was a shooter on the thirty second

10
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: floor from the mandal. I had no sense that we

11
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: were in any danger at all. It felt so safe.

12
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,039
Speaker 1: We are live in Las Vegas. I'm here with my

13
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,319
Speaker 1: buddy Alan Duke, bringing you the very latest in our

14
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: investigation into the Vegas shooter. Nearly sixty dead, hundreds injured,

15
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,920
Speaker 1: and still searching for answers. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

16
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,120
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. It seems

17
00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,679
Speaker 1: here in Vegas as though a Paul has fallen over

18
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 1: the city. Yes people are still partying, Yes the casinos

19
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 1: are full, but everywhere you turn. I've learned in the

20
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,840
Speaker 1: last hours, having walked the casino floors. Everyone is still

21
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: talking about and in fear of what happened with the

22
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: Vegas shooter, Stephen Paddock, as the investigation actually continues to

23
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: heat up. Joining me a survivor of the Vegas shooting.

24
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 1: Dr Carol Lieberman, author Alan Duke, of course, joining me

25
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,399
Speaker 1: here in Vegas right now. Out to investigative reporter John

26
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 1: Limley with Crime online dot Com. John, So much has

27
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 1: been made just recently regarding the autopsy on Stephen Paddock.

28
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,920
Speaker 1: What may have triggered the deadliest mass shooting in modern

29
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 1: US history. But the investigation is going even deeper than that,

30
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,440
Speaker 1: as into motive and how he was able to carry

31
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,080
Speaker 1: it out from a luxury high rise casino. What have

32
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 1: you learned, John Limley? Well, in addition, Nancy to questions

33
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,639
Speaker 1: about the state of Paddock's brain, there's also really from

34
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,400
Speaker 1: the very beginning that a lot of discussion about the

35
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: whole timeline of events and exactly how they came down. Uh.

36
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,520
Speaker 1: Some say that there was a six minute gap between

37
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 1: when a security guard in the hotel was shot to

38
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:11,040
Speaker 1: when the mass shooting began in earnest Um. A lot

39
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 1: of questions, a lot of questions. Still no Okay, wait

40
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,360
Speaker 1: a minute, John Lamley, John Lamley, hold on, let me

41
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,799
Speaker 1: analyze what you just said. A six minute gap between

42
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,080
Speaker 1: the first shooting of a hotel security guard before mass

43
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 1: murder goes down with me right now. A survivor of

44
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: the Vegas shooting, well known attorney Brian Claypool. Brian, I

45
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 1: had no idea that you survived the Vegas shooting. I

46
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: want to hear why you were in Vegas and what

47
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 1: what effect does it have on you that there was

48
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 1: basically a six minute warning before mass murder goes down. Yeah, Nancy,

49
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Um, before I even tell you

50
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 1: why I was there, There's not only a six minute gap.

51
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 1: I've read the entire eighty eight page preliminary investigative report.

52
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 1: There was really a lot of people don't know this,

53
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 1: but Hesus Campos was actually on the thirty second floor

54
00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 1: at PM. Remember the shooting started at about ten o six.

55
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 1: He was there and he discovered a barricaded door in

56
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,239
Speaker 1: the stairwell at thirty second floor. Now you have kids,

57
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,480
Speaker 1: I have a little girl. I think my little girl,

58
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,359
Speaker 1: if she was working as a security guard at the

59
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 1: Mandalay Bay, would have had a red red alert Okay,

60
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 1: somebody's manipulated this door. It's blocked. People can't get out.

61
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,359
Speaker 1: If there's a fire, I better call the fire department.

62
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,160
Speaker 1: Tell me that again, Brian, tell me that again. We

63
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:46,799
Speaker 1: don't want to understand it. Pm PM Campos was called

64
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 1: to the thirty second flour for what's called an S

65
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: O S alarm. It's a car alarm, which means that

66
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 1: somebody has left their door open for a prolonged period

67
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 1: of time that triggers an alarm within the Because the

68
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,159
Speaker 1: mandal A Bay, he was called up to the thirty

69
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,719
Speaker 1: second floor to check that alarm. This is at six pm.

70
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 1: He finds the hallway door barricaded. That means just been

71
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 1: potentially manipulated. He can't open it. You mean it was

72
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 1: a a door to a room or a door to

73
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 1: an ex the hallway, the hallway, the hallway. Okay, that's

74
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 1: just that's just odd. I mean in any big building,

75
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 1: if if I saw that, I would immediately think something

76
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: was sideways. Okay, go ahead, exactly. That's that's my point.

77
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 1: So that's that's that's the point I'm trying to make it.

78
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 1: He never calls the fire department, never calls the police department.

79
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,680
Speaker 1: To to to report that and then goes and does

80
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 1: his little you know, the other things, and then saunders

81
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,680
Speaker 1: back up there with an engineer, you know, a few

82
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 1: minutes before the super starts. So I just want to

83
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,719
Speaker 1: make that clear though, because I represent I've got over

84
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,200
Speaker 1: forty clients now to an addition to being a survivor,

85
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm representing over forty victims. And that's one of the

86
00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: big arguments we're gonna making. This litigation. At this timeline

87
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: extends well beyond six minutes. Anybody with a half of

88
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,159
Speaker 1: brain in their head we've been calling the backup. So

89
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,080
Speaker 1: that's a whole new thing. I did not know that

90
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 1: someone had intentionally barricaded a high rise exit door open

91
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,279
Speaker 1: to Brian Claypole, Dr Carol Lieberman, John Limley joining me.

92
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 1: We are live here in Vegas investigating for ourselves. You know,

93
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 1: once it's once an investigation starts, unless you hear the

94
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,160
Speaker 1: facts from police, it gets crazy with all the theories,

95
00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:38,200
Speaker 1: the bizarre theories that may be supported by one scintilla effect. So,

96
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:44,159
Speaker 1: Brian claypol you just were at a survivor's vigil, a

97
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 1: meeting last night, late into the night, and I just

98
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 1: can't imagine what everyone is going through. I mean, I

99
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 1: had it bad enough with one murder to deal with

100
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,240
Speaker 1: that being on the scene of a mass murder. Yeah,

101
00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:00,920
Speaker 1: you can relate to the US with you what what

102
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,359
Speaker 1: what happened to you with your your husband? And and

103
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: then another thing you can relate to because you have kids.

104
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: You know, I have an eleven year old little girl. Right,

105
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm a single parent, and I love being a dad

106
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 1: and I want to have another child. Right. But imagine

107
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,320
Speaker 1: that you were at that concert, right, I was there.

108
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 1: My birthday was the following Tuesday, so I decided last

109
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 1: minute to go out to to Vegas. I like country

110
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 1: country music, and I was staying by the way on

111
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 1: the four of the Mandalay Bay. So when I eventually

112
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,760
Speaker 1: got back to my room, I could send you pictures.

113
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 1: I could look up and see paddocks blown out windows

114
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 1: right above me. That's how for real it was. But

115
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 1: imagine this being apparent, and then all you're going from

116
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 1: relaxing to all of a sudden hearing sounds that you

117
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 1: think initially your fireworks. And then what I do is

118
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,600
Speaker 1: right And I started looking at Jason Alden's face. I

119
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 1: was a little bit to a left of the state,

120
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,840
Speaker 1: and I was looking at his face because I was

121
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: a little bit worried because I looked up in the

122
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 1: sky and I didn't see any any residue from fireworks.

123
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 1: And he kind of stuttered when he was singing when

124
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 1: that first this first sounds pop. But then then there

125
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 1: was a second round of pops. And when I saw

126
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,880
Speaker 1: him put his guitar underneath his his um, the cup

127
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,960
Speaker 1: of his shoulder and ran off the stage. Man, I went,

128
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 1: I it was just complete panic because I knew at

129
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,400
Speaker 1: that time something horrible was going on. But I won't

130
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: tell you this. If I was, you know, the first

131
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,640
Speaker 1: round of bullets, you know, I was trying to duck

132
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 1: and trying to lay down. Um. I fully expected to die,

133
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 1: There's no question about it because of the populaaah. I

134
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,680
Speaker 1: mean he just felt like the bullets right on top

135
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,240
Speaker 1: of you. You could hear the bullets, can hear pining you.

136
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,000
Speaker 1: I expected to die. And when there's no gap in

137
00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 1: the shoot, who I went from, I'm going to die too, Yeah,

138
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 1: I am really I've got to live to see my daughter.

139
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 1: But then I said I live. I'm okay, White a minute,

140
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 1: White a minute, You're just totally you're you're killing me

141
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,320
Speaker 1: right now because the thought of you, Brian, I mean

142
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,600
Speaker 1: you and I go way back of you laying there

143
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 1: on the round with bullets ringing out and all you

144
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 1: can think about is trying to get back to your daughter.

145
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, but but but Nancy, you know what

146
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,800
Speaker 1: that triggers. It triggers post shooting guilt in other words,

147
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 1: in other words, because I had to talk with some

148
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,800
Speaker 1: people at the survivor meeting about this, because there was

149
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,680
Speaker 1: there was a guy I met there who invited me,

150
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 1: guy named Taylor Winston. Taylor was a hero if you

151
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 1: if you looked him up, he actually was a former

152
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,640
Speaker 1: IRAQI that he was at the shooting. He actually grabbed

153
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 1: a truck that had keys in it and started transporting

154
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,480
Speaker 1: some bodies in the hospital. So when I hear his story,

155
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: I then kind of spiral because I feel like I

156
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,439
Speaker 1: didn't do enough. But this gets to me having a daughter.

157
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,880
Speaker 1: None of the words I saw people down excuse me

158
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,319
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't feel like I did enough because

159
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,959
Speaker 1: I was trying to get back to my little girl,

160
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,319
Speaker 1: whereas other people grew more So, I'm feeling psychologically, I'm

161
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,079
Speaker 1: seeing a therapist. I'm trying to work on that aspect

162
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,199
Speaker 1: of it too. So that's that's the demons that I'm

163
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 1: dealing with. Well, wait a minute, I just want to

164
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,720
Speaker 1: tell you a story I haven't shared even with you, Alan.

165
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 1: I remember I was out in a housing project. I

166
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 1: guess I've been prosecuting me. I had already been named

167
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,440
Speaker 1: a special prosecutor by that time, so I had to

168
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,800
Speaker 1: be in it at least five years prosecuting. And I

169
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,319
Speaker 1: went with my longtime investigator, Earnest, and we went up

170
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,319
Speaker 1: to find a witness on a porch stoop and there

171
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 1: was a screen door and we couldn't see in, and

172
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 1: we were bamming on the door, and all of a sudden,

173
00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: a gun comes out, pointing right in our face and

174
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 1: Earnest both of us. He grabbed me. We both dived

175
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 1: off the porch into the bushes and hit hard. And

176
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 1: I still remember that moment. It was so fast. I

177
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 1: hardly even remember the gun barrel, but in that moment,

178
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 1: and I don't want and I'm applying this to you, Brian,

179
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,959
Speaker 1: you gotta stop. You got to. I'm so glad you're

180
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,599
Speaker 1: seeing somebody with survivor's guilt because you were trying to

181
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,200
Speaker 1: protect the thing that means the most to you, your child.

182
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,840
Speaker 1: And I also don't like people attacking all day for

183
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,720
Speaker 1: leaving the stage, because when you are confronted with death,

184
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 1: you act instinctively. He wasn't standing there thinking, Oh, what's

185
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,120
Speaker 1: gonna look good with my pr eight you know, that's

186
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,720
Speaker 1: not what it was about. It's about saving your life.

187
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 1: So I really resent people attacking the survivors because something

188
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 1: kicks in and I just am still imagining you on

189
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,280
Speaker 1: the ground with the bullets ringing out. How did you

190
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 1: get out of there? And what what was it like?

191
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 1: What was going through your mind? What was everybody else doing? Well?

192
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it was like it was pick

193
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 1: your poison. I mean, that's that was That's was definitely

194
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 1: at your doorstep. And and and what I remember is thinking,

195
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 1: so when the first time the shots work was going on,

196
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,280
Speaker 1: like I said, I thought I was going to die,

197
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,520
Speaker 1: and I went from I'm going to die too. There

198
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,000
Speaker 1: was a little break in the shooting, and I'm like,

199
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,720
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm stealing my body. And I'm like

200
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 1: and I was covering the side of my head while

201
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 1: the shots work going on, and whither or not. It

202
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,679
Speaker 1: was so surrealized, pulling on people's pants, like like some

203
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,440
Speaker 1: people were still standing. I don't know if they were

204
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,080
Speaker 1: just in shock, was happy, just trying to pull people

205
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,440
Speaker 1: to come down. And then and then I'm like, oh

206
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,840
Speaker 1: my god, I'm still alive. And then then I started

207
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,560
Speaker 1: running and I saw people down, and then I was

208
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,880
Speaker 1: like running actually in the in an open area, which

209
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,560
Speaker 1: was not good. And then what happened is there was

210
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 1: a really a herolic young Hispanic man um and he said,

211
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 1: get out of you're you're in the line of fire.

212
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,560
Speaker 1: Get out, come over here. And then there was this

213
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 1: little area like under this little small bleacher the left

214
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,840
Speaker 1: of the stage, and he goes, coming here. This is

215
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,960
Speaker 1: before the second round the shots, right, and I go

216
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 1: in there and I'll never forget seeing like five and

217
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 1: like a young lady, like young ladies they must have

218
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 1: been probably but between nineteen and twenty two. And they

219
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,319
Speaker 1: were just on their knees, prying erically like praying, like

220
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 1: all in a corner like in this little area. So

221
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 1: I tried to calm them down and said, you know,

222
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,840
Speaker 1: I said, he's gonna be okay a just a lot,

223
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't say, I just just be calm

224
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna get through this, I said, but we've got

225
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,560
Speaker 1: to get out of here when this next shooting stops.

226
00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,319
Speaker 1: Because then I started thinking about the Pulse night club shooting.

227
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,360
Speaker 1: You see what I mean. It was like it was

228
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,400
Speaker 1: like okay, okay, I thought. I thought, okay, okay, wow,

229
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 1: we're protected now. But see what people don't understand. And

230
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,120
Speaker 1: we didn't know where the student was coming from. So

231
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 1: everybody Monday morning quarterback, So was this up in a hotel?

232
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 1: What are you worried about? We were thinking it was

233
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 1: people were right across the fence. I was right next

234
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,120
Speaker 1: to the fence, continuous with Bostonitis boulevards. So while for

235
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,880
Speaker 1: a moment I thought we were safe inside that room,

236
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,080
Speaker 1: I was starting to panic and I prayed. I was like,

237
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,160
Speaker 1: oh my god, I think sure comes in here. We're

238
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,319
Speaker 1: done right, We're toast because we got nowhere to go.

239
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,319
Speaker 1: So that then the next round e studing is going on.

240
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 1: We're just we're and I think you can relate to

241
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 1: this thing the mom You know, I'm a middle aged man,

242
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,439
Speaker 1: so I felt guilty that these young girls were gonna die.

243
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,560
Speaker 1: So I instinctively stood in front of him. I'm really

244
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 1: proud of this because I didn't feel like I did enough,

245
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 1: but I felt like I was protecting them. I stood

246
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,040
Speaker 1: in front of them and didn't even get behind his

247
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,000
Speaker 1: barraty and I had pulled in front of them. I

248
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,040
Speaker 1: stood in front of them because I was kind of

249
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,920
Speaker 1: feeling like, look, if this dude comes into here, then

250
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,040
Speaker 1: he could shoot me first, because these girls are younger, right,

251
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 1: and they haven't lost enough of life. So I stood

252
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,000
Speaker 1: like right in front near the entrance of the door.

253
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 1: And then there was another break in the shooting, and

254
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the most the real moment. I peeped

255
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,600
Speaker 1: out the door and I literally am facing the Manila Bay,

256
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 1: looking right at the Manila Bay, and then there was

257
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,400
Speaker 1: a really great police officer across the fence. You saw me,

258
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: and he screams out, I'll never forget these words. Run

259
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 1: north now, run north, now, north, and go further away

260
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 1: from the front of the venue. And then of course

261
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,000
Speaker 1: I started like running north, and then I'm like, what

262
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: about the girls, right, So I did a quick three

263
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 1: sixty and we hit back in the room like let's go,

264
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 1: come on, let's go. We gotta get out of here,

265
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,280
Speaker 1: and then started going towards the back. But Nancy, what

266
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,240
Speaker 1: people don't get is the entire time you're trying to exit,

267
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,200
Speaker 1: you're waiting you can get in. Other words, were then

268
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 1: and then we're waiting you can hit from behind, like

269
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: like we're waiting like like we have to wait for

270
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 1: people to try to get out. But the whole time

271
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 1: you're you're expecting you get hit in the back because

272
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 1: the shots you're still going on. So and then eventually

273
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 1: kind of had to calm people down to get out

274
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 1: of this one little, small four ft exit, And I

275
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 1: just said to people, if you're gonna fight, nobody's gonna

276
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 1: make it out of your live. I tried to really

277
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 1: just say, we've got to all get in a single

278
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 1: line and try to get our way through. And you know,

279
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 1: praise God made it up. Let me pause and thank

280
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 1: our partner making our investigation possible. It's Legal Zoom. You know,

281
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 1: small business is the big hot topic right now, and

282
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 1: that means National Small Business Month at Legal Zoom comes

283
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 1: at just the right time, whether you're just starting out

284
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 1: or you already have a business. Two thousand eighteen presents

285
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 1: a very unique opportunity. New tax laws include the biggest

286
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 1: changes for business owners in the last thirty years, and

287
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: legal Zoom can help you understand what that means for you.

288
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 1: Legal Zoom not a law firm, but has a network

289
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 1: of independent tax professionals and lawyers nationwide to answer your

290
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: questions about taxes and so much more. Legal Zoom understands

291
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 1: you need to tap into the right resources to run

292
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 1: your business, and that's why they're using their sixteen years

293
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 1: of experience sixteen to provide business owners with the tools

294
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 1: to start and run their business the right way. Keep

295
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 1: listening over the next few weeks to find out how

296
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,840
Speaker 1: legal zoom can help you During National Small Business Month,

297
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,400
Speaker 1: don't miss this. Check out legal zoom dot com today

298
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 1: and get special savings if you enter code Nancy in

299
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,200
Speaker 1: a n C Y and the referral blocks that check

300
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: out legal Zoom where a life meets legal legal zoom

301
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:14,360
Speaker 1: dot com. Thank you for helping business owners and regular

302
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,600
Speaker 1: people like us across the country every day and from

303
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 1: being our partner here on sirius XM with me. Everybody

304
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: is survivor of the Vegas mass shooting. Brian Claypool, our

305
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 1: friend Alan Deuke, and I are here live in Vegas

306
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 1: conducting our own investigation, trying to dig Dig Dig talking

307
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 1: to people into the night, finding out about theories about logistics,

308
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 1: what police aren't telling us. Also with me, in addition

309
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 1: to survivor Brian Claypool, our colleague and friend John Limley,

310
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 1: crime online investigative reporter, and Dr Carol Lieberman joining us

311
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 1: the all of a brand new book, Lions and Tigers

312
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,919
Speaker 1: and Terrorists, Oh My, How to Protect Her Child in

313
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,479
Speaker 1: a Time of Terror. It's on Amazon and she is

314
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 1: a renowned mental health care provider. Dr Carroll Aberman, thank

315
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us when you're listening

316
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 1: to Brian Claypool as all of this evidence is coming

317
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 1: out about the autopsy on the shooter or paddock and

318
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 1: what we can learn, it's just overwhelming. Dr Carroll, Yes,

319
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,119
Speaker 1: it really is. And Brian certainly brought it to life.

320
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:35,919
Speaker 1: I mean you could still I think we all got

321
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: chills just hearing and it was still so raw in

322
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,400
Speaker 1: his mind. Um. Yes, the latest thing is that there

323
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 1: was an autopsy and people were hoping, I guess some

324
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 1: people were hoping that there would be some clear answer

325
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 1: in his brain, like if there were was a brain

326
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,239
Speaker 1: tumor or something like that that could account for this

327
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,679
Speaker 1: bizarre behavior. Of course, because there was you know, the

328
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 1: problem him is that there couldn't have been something very

329
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 1: um serious because he did have such amazing planning. So

330
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 1: I mean, it could have been something that was getting

331
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 1: more and more serious, but still he had an amazing planning.

332
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 1: And in fact, they didn't really find anything, um, absolutely

333
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 1: clear that would explain what he did. They found that

334
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 1: his brain had some damage from high blood pressure and atherosclerosis,

335
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: and those things were sort of um, you know, consonant

336
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,480
Speaker 1: with his age. It was really not that abnormal. They

337
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: did find some a little something abnormal, which is um,

338
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 1: abnormal deposits in his brain, something called copora and malaysia,

339
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 1: which um, you know you hear about Alzheimer's disease and uh,

340
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: that can be related to that. But there really wasn't

341
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 1: a huge amount of it enough to make that kind

342
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:58,439
Speaker 1: of diagnosis. Um, there was there was. This is also

343
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: connected sometimes with epilepsy and with multiple sclerosis, but again

344
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 1: there wasn't enough for the way it presented itself. They

345
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: couldn't really make those kinds of diagnoses. They're just saying

346
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 1: that this kind of deposit is sometimes found in those

347
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:18,359
Speaker 1: in those diagnoses. But the bottom line, the autopsy revealed

348
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: nothing as to possible motive. But you know, to you

349
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:29,120
Speaker 1: Alan Duke, my partner here in Vegas right now, Alan,

350
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: that I mean, the autopsies would really only divulge or

351
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: reveal an injury or a physical ailment like Dr Carol

352
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: is saying, like a tumor. It can't possibly reveal the

353
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: thought processes going on in the mind at the time

354
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: of the shooting. Alan, Yeah, you know, people were hoping

355
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 1: that this autopsy would give them some answers because, you know,

356
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: for just an average guy, and Paddocks seemed like a

357
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: sort of average guy. We want to understand how this

358
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: could happen. Did he just snap? What caused him to

359
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,919
Speaker 1: do something like this? Because there are millions of people

360
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: who couldn't be like Paddock out there and we want

361
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: to know why. But uh, but we're not getting answers.

362
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: And and you talk about the crazy theories out there.

363
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I was just as I was talking to

364
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: some people here in Las Vegas last night here at

365
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: the hotel. There's some pretty crazy ones out there because

366
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 1: they don't think that an average, normal person with the

367
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: normal brain would do something to school. Bottom line back

368
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: to you, Brian, Claypool. You've just spent your whole life

369
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: defending all sorts of crimes the words to the least,

370
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: and very often a mental defense is a is a

371
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: theory of defense for you. But really, when you're the

372
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 1: victim and you see people all around you going down

373
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: in a hail of bullets, does it really matter why

374
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: he did it? He did it, they're dead, and you're

375
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: at a survivor's meeting until midnight, and Eleanor and I

376
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: are here in Vegas investigating, and at the end of

377
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: the day, does it matter why he did it to you? Yeah? Yeah,

378
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: it's a great question, Nancy, for that's a personal decision

379
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: for everybody, all the twenty thousand people that were there.

380
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: I could tell you what I'm feeling, and that is

381
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I don't. I care less about

382
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: motive and more about Let me tell you the second

383
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: thought I had after I survived for that first round

384
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 1: of bullets. I said to myself, I am effing upset

385
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: about this, and if I live, I'm going to get

386
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 1: to the bottom of how this can happen and then

387
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: do my part. It kind of galvanized my godly purpose

388
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: in the world. Why am I still here. I'm still

389
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: here now because I'm representing a lot of victims in

390
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: this pace. We want to try to prevent this from

391
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 1: happening again. So I'm focusing more on what did the

392
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: Mandalay Bay and mc HIM do wrong in terms of

393
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: horrible training, having little or no security at all, allowing

394
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: it to freight elevator, not having an alarm in the

395
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: window with somebody's drilling holes in the window, not arming

396
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: the security guards, things like that, the barricaded door, not

397
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: doing anything about that. I'm focused, I'm galvanized. My focus

398
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: on how could this happen in a civilized society with

399
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: people that really care about safeguarding people. To me, the

400
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: issue is about greed eclipses public safety, and I want

401
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: to break up that culture of money, money, money at

402
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: the expense of keeping people saying. So that's my focus.

403
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Climb Online investigative reporter

404
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: John Limley. What else have you learned? John Limley? I mean,

405
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: Alan has been baiting the street and looking. We've been

406
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: investigating out here and trying to find out what we

407
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: can and we've got some very disturbing theories. What do

408
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, John, what more can you tell us Nancy

409
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: on the subject of possible motive. He is one thing

410
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: that emerged. Paddock was a high rolling gambler, but he

411
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: had been in some declining years as far as raking

412
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: in the money, um, and so much so that he

413
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: was beginning to have bouts of depression. And he had

414
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: been losing quote a significant amount of wealth according to

415
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: the Clark County Sheriff's office, and that could have been

416
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 1: one of the determining factors. Uh in the end, we

417
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: may never know. You mean losing at the table. Okay,

418
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. UM, I'm gonna have to

419
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 1: get to Dr Carol on this. Dr Carroll Lieberman joining me,

420
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: renowned psychilatrist and author of a NIBA Lions, Tigers and Terrorists,

421
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: and I how to protect your child in a time

422
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: of terror. You know, I, as many people know from

423
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: looking at the pictures on Instagram and Facebook, took the

424
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: children on a an epic RV trip this past spring

425
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: bright with my mother six year old, who took over

426
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: half off the RV just so everybody knows, and the

427
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: four of us lived in the other half not complaining.

428
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: But uh, Vegas was in our on our trip, so

429
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: we stayed at the Hard Rock, and every morning we'd

430
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: get up bright and early and would walk through the casino.

431
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: There would be people we were going out and about.

432
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: We went to Hoover Damn. We went into the Grand Canyon,

433
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: we went everywhere, and we saw David Copperfield blah blah.

434
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: At seven o'clock in the morning. We would get up

435
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: and and go and get them something to eat. There

436
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: were people at the at the slots and gambling, and

437
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: they look like zombies. And I would say to the twins, twins,

438
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: look at these poor people. They have gambling addictions and

439
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: they're losing their rent money right now, and they're smoking

440
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: and drinking, which are both big no nos. Children. Look

441
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: what's happening to them. And the children, of course, I'm

442
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: trying to brainwash them as soon as possible. We're like,

443
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: oh no, they're smoking. And uh so, they said, Mommy,

444
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: if you ever gambled, I'm like no. One time I

445
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: put a quarter in a slot just to know what

446
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: it felt like, okay, And then they said, well, how

447
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: did it feel, mom? I said, well, I immediately regretted

448
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: losing my quarter, but you go ahead and put your

449
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: quarter in the slot and see how it feels so

450
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's like takes over your mind. It's an

451
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: addiction like alcohol or drugs. Dr Carroll, Yes, absolutely, and

452
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: he was doing this for years and years and years,

453
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: and of course what that did to his mind. You

454
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: know those late nights. He used to do it a

455
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: lot at night and you know, do be in that

456
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: atmosphere and yes, you know that's very Uh, it's very

457
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: It affects your you physically and psychologically, and um, you

458
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: know there are a lot of uh and when people

459
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: start to lose, of course, and mens how addict. The

460
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: people who are addicted to it, of course, um think,

461
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: oh well, I just have to keep doing it, Jost.

462
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: I just do it a little bit more than I'm

463
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: gonna wear, I'm gonna start winning. And that that's why

464
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: they can't stop. And also it's connected to family addictions.

465
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: I've connected to sexual dysfunction, like people who have feel

466
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: that they have sexual inadequacies and or really do have

467
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: sexual inadequacies. And that's one of my theories. I have

468
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of psychological theories for why he did this,

469
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: and one of them is that he was he was

470
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: losing and gambling and he was also having erectile dysfunction,

471
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: and um, really one of the key things is that

472
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: his father, this is what what originally started him off.

473
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: I believe what white white wait, white, just stop stop

474
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: stop stop. Uh. How did erectile dysfunction get in there?

475
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: I mean, apparently based on all the viagra what's the

476
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: new and Allen that they advertised in all the football guys. Okay,

477
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: that just rolled off your tongue, not forty finger. I mean,

478
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: apparently a lot of guys have erectical dysfunction. They're not

479
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: committing mass murder and forcing my my colleague and France

480
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: Brian Claypool to crawl on his belly from from bullets.

481
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: I mean buying Claypool. I am not buying Brian a

482
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: rectile this function, Okay, because half the neighborhoods and suburban

483
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: America would be shot at right now. That's that's not

484
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: working for me, Brian, Brian, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Yeah,

485
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm like Allen, I can't speak to that

486
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: issue because I don't have that problem. So, but that's

487
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: not what I was asking. I'm sorry. Okay, everybody, suddenly

488
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: all the man of defending I'm talking about this is

489
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: a motive. Suddenly all the men are like, forget the

490
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: mass shooting, Let's talk about dysfunction. I'm saying, I'm not

491
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: buying into that that's BS. I'm not saying that that

492
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: is the only thing that was wrong with him and

493
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: if that would cause him or anybody else to start

494
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: shooting up fifty eight people and hundreds more. I'm just

495
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: trying to put put together a psychological profile because that's

496
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: what I would do as a what I do do

497
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: as a forensic psychiatrist. I think the jame thing is

498
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: that when he was a little boy, you can always

499
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: trace these things back, and then you put the things

500
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: that happened more recently on top of them. His father

501
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: was on the most wanted list of the SBI at

502
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: one time. And when and when uh Stephen was a

503
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: little boy, his father was first arrested, he were on banks.

504
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: And when the when the fens came to arrest his

505
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: father and the authorities came, his mother lied to him

506
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: and said that that it was not that he was

507
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: being arrested arrested, and said that um, he she lied

508
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: about where his father was, not that he was in

509
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: jail and so on and um, then his father a

510
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: street from jail, and the place where he was arrested again,

511
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: this this second time after he had been on the

512
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: LAMB for quite some time, was in Vegas. Now, I

513
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: don't think that that's a coincidence. I think that he

514
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: was trying to be a batter dude than his father,

515
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: and that's where the wrecked out this function comes in.

516
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: And it's not all b No. I want to go

517
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: back to Brian Claypool. I want to hear about when

518
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: you finally when you were running. You're crawling along army crawl,

519
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: the shots are ringing out. You try to protect those

520
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: two young girls. The guy says, run north. Now you

521
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: start running. Everybody's running. I can't even imagine what that

522
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: was like. Brian. Yeah, it's uh, what what? What? What? What?

523
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: People we talked about this, the survivors, a lot of

524
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: are are the trauma that weren't dealing with. Is what's

525
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: called disassociation. If I speak from me, I'm still dealing

526
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: with this, Carol, you know it's probably what I'm talking about.

527
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: This association, Nancy means that I'm more disconnected now from

528
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: the average faulk on the street because I don't feel

529
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: like they can really relate to what I went through, right,

530
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: weren't for example, like what we were talking about earlier,

531
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: which is like, I feel comfortable talk to you. You

532
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: have committs to kind of get it. What people don't get,

533
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: for example, is I don't know where. I don't know

534
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: where the suitors. There was a good point shooters. I

535
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: was just gonna send shooters. I thought there were several suitors.

536
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: We all thought people I've talked to her in there.

537
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: This was a masked terror attack. We thought terrorists were

538
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: cheating over the city of the Vegas. Okay, this this

539
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: is upsets me. It angers me because I'm so sick

540
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: of people minimizing what I went through. Oh, you weren't

541
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: standing over there where most of the people were killed

542
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: on that there. Yet a person's killed thirty in front

543
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: of me. I saw it when I read through the

544
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: investigative report. Oh well, it was just a guy shooting

545
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: up in the hotel. Are you freaking who founds around?

546
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: I mean every movie you made, you thought you were

547
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: gonna get hit, but we thought people were coming over

548
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: the fact. Imagine your your error than Nancy is mac

549
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: a fight ten food? You don't know where this is

550
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: coming from and every move you make your body. That's

551
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: the that the to help you have a vivid understanding

552
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: of what I went to. Every move I need I

553
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: thought could make it be the difference between life and death.

554
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: And and even when I got out of the venue,

555
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: just to fitness a story, I end up at the

556
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: Tropicana and I'm standing there and I'm breathing, and I'm like,

557
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: oh my, I think I'm still alive. And then of

558
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: a sudden there's an announcement, there's a scream, there's a scream,

559
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: another shooter, and then we're told there's an active shooter

560
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: shooting in the Tropicana. And then had to rush through

561
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: the Trafican and saw people's clothing, sweatshirt, shoes strewn everywhere

562
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: throughout the casino. Okay, so this went on for hours

563
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: and hours, and maybe you have another sell. I'll tell

564
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: you about a theory that we talked about the Survivor's

565
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: group meeting, which is there could be some previous who

566
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: possibly they're having been another shooting in the Tropicana related

567
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 1: to J. Sawny, Priest that was actually in town in

568
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: Vegas that night, who was supposed to be staying at

569
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: the Four Seasons that's for another whoa okay, hold on,

570
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: whoa wait wait, Alan, We've been here in Vegas. We're

571
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: broadcasting live from Vegas right now, and we have been investigating,

572
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: talking to so many people. It's like drinking from a

573
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: fire hydrant. This with the backdrop that we're learning from

574
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: the autopsy that Stephen Paddock was stone cold sober at

575
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: the time. It's what I'm learning. But you have learned

576
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: a lot about what Brian Claypool was saying. Alan, right,

577
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: and Nancy. I was even reluctant to bring this up

578
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: because it sounds so it's not another Alan do Bizarro theory.

579
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: Well it's not my theory, Okay, reluctant to even repeat it.

580
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: But since Brian brought it up, this is the kind

581
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: of thing that's going around. I met with a private

582
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: investigator yesterday who claims to have information from his sources.

583
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: He says these are people he called crew who worked

584
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: security for this Saudi prince who owns a number of

585
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: properties here in Vegas, who was staying at the Tropicana. Now, again,

586
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: I give you a disclaimer on this. I don't know

587
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: that there's any validity of this, But when I heard

588
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: Brian clayper Will mention this theory, I thought I should

589
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: bring up what I know that the that Stephen Paddock

590
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: was a diversion on an assassination attempt on the Saudi Prince.

591
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: And you know there's a lot of unrest or uh positioning,

592
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: if you will, going on in the Saudi Kingdom right

593
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: now for control of the kingdom. Uh. There have been

594
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: some arrest and and and some shuffling around among the

595
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: royal family, and there's a huge amount of money at

596
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: stake right so, and and I just listened to this

597
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: guy and trying to think should we let him on

598
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: our show or not? Should we bring him in here?

599
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: And I made the decision that no, because he wasn't

600
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: able to show me enough evidence to this. But I

601
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: guess I should bring forward the fact that, yes, there

602
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: is a private investigator who was telling me all about

603
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: how this that Paddock wasn't actually that Paddock was set up,

604
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: which I don't believe. How do you get all the

605
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: guns up there? Well, this guy was saying, well, the

606
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: theory is he was a gun runner and he was

607
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: there to sell the guns. I don't believe that. I

608
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: think if the police would give more information, more timely information.

609
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: Perhaps it was help resolve these rumors that are going.

610
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: I don't think anything should be off the table. One

611
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: of the things that I've been kind of seeing from

612
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: from the beginning is that we can't rule out that

613
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: there was a terrorism connection. The gun powers that they founded,

614
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: the ammunition that they found in his cart was similar

615
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 1: to what terrorists used. UM, the girlfriends who went to

616
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: the Philippines who we wired money too, and we know

617
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: that that is a place where there are terrorist cells

618
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: and so on. There is a number of different things

619
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: that would make it so that the police shouldn't rule

620
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: out am I saying that they have. I don't know

621
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: what you've been hearing just now in Vegas, but UM,

622
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: I do not believe we should rule out terrorism. I

623
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: want to go back to John Lemley, investigative reporter joining

624
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: us along with the Vegas shooting survivor, our friend Brian

625
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: Claypool and Dr Carol Laberman and Alan Deep. John Lemley,

626
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: what more have you learned? One thing? And this uh

627
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: is well the people making of it perhaps more than

628
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: it is. It could be just a typo. But one thing.

629
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: When the post mortem examination results were released on October six,

630
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: UM one line right below Stephen Paddock's name. Date of

631
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: death is October second, time of death twelve hundred hours

632
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: twelve hundred not midnight, that is noon on October two. However,

633
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 1: this could have been simply a clerical era, but it's

634
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: one that still has caught people's attention. We've learned. Uh,

635
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: the reports now revealing the gunman was not under the

636
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: influence of drugs or other substances when he shot open

637
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 1: fire at the crowd during Jason Alden's event closing set Injuring.

638
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: Now we believe up to eight hundred people. It showed

639
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: he did have anxiety anti anxiety drugs in his system,

640
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: but not enough to be under the influence. He was

641
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: believed at one point to be bipolar. Uh, but so

642
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: far nothing to suggest that any drug or alcohol influence

643
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: made him open fire. Back to you, Brian Claypool, you

644
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: serve drived. How has it affected your family? Yes? So

645
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: here here's what I'm going through. Nancy and I I

646
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: read a post the other day that really helped me

647
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: deal with this trauma. It's the post on Facebook was

648
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: Rea wasn't survivors because it said true courage. It's complete vulnerability.

649
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: Think about that for a second true courage. It's complete vulnerability.

650
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: You've gone through this in your life with the tragedy

651
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 1: at Okay, That's how I've to deal with this from front,

652
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: and that's why I've spoken a lot about not only

653
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: the shooting, but what I'm not afraid to say what

654
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: I'm going through. Okay, And here's what I'm going through

655
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: because I need to be vulnerable for me to get

656
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 1: my courage back, because I'm a little bit beaten down

657
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: from this. Here's what I'm experiencing catastrophic thoughts for example.

658
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: And I know you're gonna get sad hearing this. And

659
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: a week ago, I'm driving my little girl back from

660
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: school and I'm on the freeway and I get this

661
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: thought as I'm driving, and I'm driving in the car

662
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: right Porpolan is close to the media and then the

663
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: up traffic coming in on the other side of the

664
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: freeway so we could go. I'm just driving with my

665
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: daughter in the back seat, and then a thought comes

666
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: over me that a car is gonna hit me from

667
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: the side, fish tail me and push my car into

668
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: the other lane of traffic, and a truck is going

669
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: to smash our car. And I'm gonna watch my daughter

670
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: dying needed kill. So these are so things are happening

671
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: in my world. I had a nightmare we could go

672
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: about an earthquake. An earthquake was happening, and my little

673
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: girl and I are rushing to the out of the

674
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: house as the ceiling is following on us. That's one

675
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: thing that I'm going through, catastrophic thoughts. There was another

676
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: part of it is I'm very much more anti social now. Um,

677
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: I don't really like being around people much. I don't

678
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: really trust people anymore. I don't really feel sweet anywhere

679
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: I go. I kind of always constantly looking around my

680
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: shoulders wherever I'm at. I don't trust anybody. And and

681
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: then I think the biggest, one of the biggest things

682
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: for me is I feel like part of my soul

683
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: was killed. I told people is I might not have

684
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: been physically hit by a bullet, but part of my

685
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: soul gude in that shooting. So I'm having struggles with

686
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: the deally routines of life. In other words, I you

687
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: know me, I'm I focused on my law firm. I

688
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: take care of my daughter first, like I did, keep

689
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: my business going. But I gotta tell you every day

690
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: tasks of getting my bills paid, finally getting my car

691
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: to the car washed the other day, having tons of

692
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: stuff in my car that I hadn't taken out. Little

693
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: things in life that you think you knocked out one

694
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: to three had become really really big task for me

695
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: because I just don't feel like I have this same

696
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: Do you know what's interesting, Brian. You know what's interesting,

697
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: Brian is that I don't know if this is good

698
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: knees or bad knees to this day, and Keith was

699
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: murdered a long time ago. I to this day, I

700
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: joke about it a lot, and I joke about it

701
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: with the other parents at school and the teachers, and

702
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: it's kind of a joke to them. But I will

703
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: go to the school at all times of the day

704
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: and drive by and I make a joke. I'll call

705
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: my husband on the phone or um, I might have

706
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: Alan on the phone, and I'll go, You'll go, where

707
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: are you? I'm driving through the twins school, just making

708
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: sure they're not in lockdown. You know that everything's okay,

709
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: ha ha ha. I'm not kidding. And I still have

710
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: the nightmares. I still everything. It affects you for the

711
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: rest of your life. Now I've gone on. I function.

712
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there have been periods of times that I

713
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: really couldn't and all I had was prosecuting or my

714
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: my job, having your daughter. It it it's healing because

715
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: you you have to get normalized. You have to for her,

716
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Brian, Yeah, yeah, thank you for that.

717
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say, Brian, you know that those

718
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: are classic symptoms of PTSD. Right, Yeah, no, you're you're right.

719
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm drinking. Um was a therapist. I'm seeing her

720
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: on a weekly basis to night. Yeah, that's what that's

721
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: what she's diagnosic. Here's another thing I learned, Brian. I

722
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: learned that it affects your whole world. Like you know,

723
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: after Keith was murdered, I went on, I met David.

724
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: I couldn't let myself marry, or be happy or or

725
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: love anybody. And that's why I was so crazy mean

726
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: as the prosecutor all those years. I mean I looked

727
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: at everybody and they were like, if I let this

728
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: guy go on a theft, he could get out shoot somebody,

729
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: then it's on me. Oh hell no, he's got to

730
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: go to jail. And everybody if they came to into

731
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: my courtroom was just like woe is you? Because that's

732
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: where I was coming from, and I couldn't move forward.

733
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: And you know what what it ended in is me

734
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: and Lucy almost dying in childbirth because all those years

735
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 1: I couldn't let go and be happy and have love.

736
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: I couldn't have love because in my mind it was wrong.

737
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: Would you know I still love Keith and I couldn't

738
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: let go. And as a result, you know, because of

739
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: my delay giving birth so late in life, you know what,

740
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: Lucy almost died there. So it affects every it seeps

741
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: into every part of your Thank you for sharing that.

742
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: By the way, I really thank you for sharing that

743
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: because you just validated something that I'm I'm I haven't

744
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: really publicly mentioned this, but I'm going through something similar

745
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: to what you're going through. Um you know, I'm still single.

746
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: I want to meet a woman to get married. I'd

747
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: love to have another kid, even though it's later in life.

748
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: But for me, I even before the shooting, I hadn't seensed.

749
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: My mom died when I was a little, real, a

750
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: really little kid, bread breast cancer. My dad was alcoholic,

751
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: never around. I was basically orphaned as a kid and

752
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: raising myself my little sister, and so I've never had

753
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: a feeling of trusting a family foundation. I've always you know,

754
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: I ruined my relationship with my daughter's mom. I should

755
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: have gotten married. I couldn't trust. I already had trust

756
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: issues with marriage, right, trusting this could be a safe

757
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: place for me. Then the shooting happens, and now it's

758
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: like I tried and not trying to go on a

759
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: date a couple of weeks ago, and I was just

760
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: so disconnected from the whole thing. I'm like, now I'm

761
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 1: feeling like, am I ever gonna Maybe I will never

762
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: have a family now because I just can't. That's what

763
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: I thought, That's what I thought. But I'm begging you.

764
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: I'm begging you. Don't do what I did. That's my

765
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 1: message to crime victims all the time. Don't stop your

766
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: life like I did. Don't That's if I had just

767
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: been able to just move forward. And when you hear

768
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: all these theories and you hear John Limley reporting, I mean,

769
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: how does that affect you when you hear all this

770
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: this news developing? Brian, Yeah, Well, believe it or not,

771
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: that they asked that part actually helps me. Being involved

772
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: in this litigation um and helping these victims. Uh. You know,

773
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: I've got a woman who lost a luck one, her

774
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: son was killed. She lives in Alaska's got about fifteen

775
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: people that have been physically injured in the shooting, and

776
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: I've got about twenty people that are suffering from PTSD.

777
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, Nancy, every single client

778
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 1: that I represent in the Las Vegas shooting, it's an

779
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 1: honor and a privilege to be representing them because I

780
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: feel like I'm going to get answers through representing them

781
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: in this case and being at the forefront of this case,

782
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 1: and then that is going to be therapy for me

783
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: to into another word, to carry out what my godly

784
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 1: purposes surviving. So that is actually feeling me this part

785
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: hearing all this. You know, I want you Alan to tell,

786
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: after all the hours we put in out here, what

787
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: you have learned to Brian Claypool, any of the evidence,

788
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: any of the theories I've I didn't know the Saldi

789
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: Prince theory in its entirety until you told me. I'm

790
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: not ruling anything out. I don't really necessarily buy that,

791
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: but my mind is open. I want to hear every

792
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 1: every theory every fact that we know. One of the

793
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: people I talked to last night UH said that one

794
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: of the theories is that Paddock was a gun runner.

795
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: He had all those guns, I mean they found many,

796
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: many high powered guns, and that he with others were

797
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: selling guns globally and that that was part of why

798
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: all those guns were up here. But the theory was

799
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: he was set up and that he was not the shooter. Again,

800
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,919
Speaker 1: now that we have this autopsy report that is now out,

801
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: we've got a little bit more Keeping in mind another

802
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: person was arrested recently involved in providing ammunition to him.

803
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: But we still have so many unanswered questions and until

804
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: we get some answers, and unfortunately, in a case like this,

805
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: Pattock isn't going to go on trial, so we're not

806
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 1: gonna have all the discovery that we would normally have.

807
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: So there probably will be a lot of un answered

808
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 1: questions for many years and a lot of theories out there,

809
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: and Nancy among the theories running around UH that could

810
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: point to his being involved with someone else's The amount

811
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 1: of time he was in Vegas before the shoot shooting.

812
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: He drove down from his home about eighty miles north

813
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: on September, he stated, a couple of different hotels over

814
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 1: the course of a week or so. Then on September,

815
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,439
Speaker 1: pat arrives at the Mandalais Bay Uh. This is quite

816
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: a number of days before the shooting. He was greeted

817
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: like royalty because, as we've mentioned before, he was a

818
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: frequent high stakes gambler at the hotel's casino, and the

819
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: hotel so appreciated his business that they had reserved him

820
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: a complimentary room, a room number thirty two. Four days later,

821
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: he checks into the neighboring suite, the room next door

822
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: which connects to that first room, and both suites overlook

823
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 1: that side of the shooting Las Vegas village. He placed

824
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: to do not disturb sign on the door, organize the

825
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: room stockpiled, as Alan mentioned an arsenal of weapons, and

826
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: the day of the shooting, he actually interacted with Mandalais

827
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: Bay employees more than ten times during the day, including

828
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: just in the hour before that. But it was very

829
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: telling that when he checked into the hotel, Clark County

830
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department employees say that carried more than ten suitcases

831
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: into his hotel suite. Brian Claypool, I want to hear

832
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: your message to other victims of the Vegas shooter that

833
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: managed to survive, Yeah, thanks Nancy. My message would be

834
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: take the time to understand and crystallize why you survived.

835
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 1: That's what That's what's getting me through this. I've gone

836
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: from why me? Why am I alive? Two? What am

837
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: I going to do for the rest of my life

838
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: to make a difference? Now I'm on the impact part

839
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: of my life. So I would encourage survivors to amid

840
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: managing their trauma, Like Carol said, the PTSD that everybody's

841
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: going to have, who is there, try to seek you

842
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: out why it is you have these precious remaining years

843
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: left on this planet, and and make a difference in

844
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: impact people in this country in any way you can.

845
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: That's my best message. Nancy Grace and Alan Duke line

846
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: in Vegas with crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend.