1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: have something for you and all free E chapter on 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: you online, to fake cures that are being sold on 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: chapter coronavirus crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: online dot com. You'll see it there in the link 13 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: and downloaded for free. Arm yourself against criminals and scam artists, 14 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: cons that will not only take advantage of you, but 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and people 16 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: you love. At a time well we are all fighting 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: the virus. I hope you go to crime online dot 18 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented 19 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. How 20 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: many of you like me? Have watched the Netflix so 21 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: called documentary on Joe Exotic, not his real name, the 22 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: so called Tiger King. But is that just a show? 23 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: Is that real? Their numbers are skyrocketing, the root for 24 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: the Tiger King. But what is the truth? What really 25 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: happened in a court of law? Many of the girars 26 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: are afraid to speak out, but we managed to track 27 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: down one girar, Kristen, who will tell you the truth 28 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: of why Joe Exotic is behind bars and a federal penitentiary. 29 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: I mean Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, Crime Stories 30 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Joining us now is a very special guest, Kristen, 31 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: who actually sat on the Joe Exotic trial. Kristin, thank 32 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: you for being with us. Thank you, Kristen. I don't 33 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: know if you saw the Netflix special or the Fox 34 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: Network special on Joe Exotic, but I've got a pretty 35 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: good idea it was very different than what happened in 36 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: the courtroom. Would you agree with that? Oh? I absolutely 37 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: agree with that. And it was a completely different story 38 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: than what we heard. And you know, it's so crazy 39 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: to me, as a former prosecutor to hear people actually 40 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: approach the president asking for a pardon for Joe Exotic. 41 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: When you guys went through all this evidence, let me 42 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: just start at the beginning. When you first saw Joe 43 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: Exotic in that courtroom, how did he appear? Um? Well, 44 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: he um, he looks much smaller than than he does 45 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: than he did on the special. He had the mullet 46 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: and he and he had some jewelry, not much, but 47 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: um he uh he the suit that he was wearing 48 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: was way too big for him so kind of swallowed 49 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: him and made him look even smaller. So yeah, he 50 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: was not impressive and he looked much older than he 51 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: did on the DUC series. Let me ask you a 52 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: question regarding the evidence. We've heard it said over and 53 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: over and over on TV in the media, there was 54 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: no evidence that he handed over money to Alan Glover 55 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: for a hit. Well, I disagree. Alan Glover took the 56 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: stand and there were so many hours of tape recordings. 57 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: I mean, tell me what you thought was the strongest 58 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: evidence requiring the hitman counts. Kristen, I know you guys 59 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: look at a lot accounts, the lacy counts for wildlife, 60 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: the endangered species counts, shooting the tigers a lot, But 61 00:04:55,040 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: on the hitmen aspects, murder for hire. Do you think 62 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: Kresten was the strongest advance that convinced you it really happened. 63 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: That is a real easy question. We did hear a 64 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: lot of recordings, and we saw a lot of text 65 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: messages and that kind of thing that had to do 66 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: with Alan Glover. But then with the undercover FBI agent 67 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: and oh, I can't think of his name now, but 68 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 1: there was a long recording of him meeting Joe, and 69 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: we could have convicted on both murder for hire accounts 70 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: based on one sentence that Joe said, which was the 71 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: first guy that I hired to killer ran away with 72 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: my three thousand dollars. Now we're going to try this again, 73 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: and and something to that effect, obviously out word for word, 74 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: and like how much would you charge me? Or that 75 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: kind of thing, But one sentence, we could have convicted 76 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: him on both counts. So this was the recording with 77 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: the undercover the FED, the undercover agent, right, yes, is 78 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: it true he had a meeting about murder for high 79 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: at an Applebee's um. I don't recall that this recording 80 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: that we heard was actually at the zoo. The first 81 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: probably ten minutes was just them walking with no no 82 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: talking at all, and then he met him, I believe 83 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: in the I think they said it was like an 84 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: office near the gift shop, and that's where they sat 85 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: down and talk about it. Now, this is the FED, 86 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: the undercover agent, right, Yes, yes, you know, Kristen. I've 87 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: got so many questions for you. But regarding the evidence, 88 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: when Joe Exotic would be heard talking about murdering Carol Baskin, 89 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: what was his demeanor? Was he afraid? Was he worried 90 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: he was going to get caught? Was he cavalier? Was 91 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: he laughing? What was his demeanor during all those recordings, 92 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: his demeanor in the courtroom or on the tape? He 93 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: was laughing. He it was all a big joke to him. 94 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: I don't I think he really thought that he was 95 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: going to get away with it. He he sounded angry 96 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: and of some of them, but mostly he was just laughing. 97 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: So let me understand, Kristen, was it a big joke 98 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: or was it for real? Did he really pay to 99 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: have her killed? It was absolutely real. I mean, there 100 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: was not a second of discussion in deliberations about whether 101 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: or not he meant it. We all absolutely believed that 102 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: he wanted her dead, and so I think the laughing 103 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: part of it was that he was thinking about how 104 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: happy he would be when it actually happened. You know, 105 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: I've listened to a lot of a lot of people 106 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: higher hit men, believe it or not, and I've never 107 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: heard one laughing about it that it was just a 108 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: big joke that this woman was going to be shot dead. 109 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: So what was Joe Exotic's plan as to how to 110 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: kill Carol Baskin? What did he want to happen to her? Oh? 111 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: He hit a few different plans ends. At one point 112 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: they talked about um about Glover hiding on the off 113 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: the trail where she would ride her her bike to 114 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: work and he could just shoot her from there. I 115 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: think that at one point they it was talked about 116 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: that he could cut her head off, and I mean 117 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 1: it was It was all different scenarios that they would 118 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: talk about. I really don't think he even cared how 119 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: it happened. He just wanted it to happen. Kristen, You 120 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: know when something like that would come out in court, 121 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: every juror would turn and look at the defendant. Did 122 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: you ever look over at him when those recordings were 123 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: being played about putting cutting her head off? Or shooting 124 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: her off her bike. Um, yeah, he was. He was 125 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: right in front of me. He was in my direct 126 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: line of vision. So I watched his reaction a lot 127 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: to things. Um, and he didn't really react. He sometimes 128 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: he would lean over and whisper something to one of 129 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: his attorneys, but it wasn't there wasn't any any major 130 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: reaction at all. Man. I would hang my head down 131 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: if a recording was played back where I wanted somebody's 132 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: head cut off, how somebody murdered. He just sat there 133 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: like it was nothing. Kristen. Yeah, he he just didn't 134 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: seem to believe that that was gonna be enough to 135 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: convict him. And uh and I think, um, how like 136 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: I said, we didn't really talk about it, but um 137 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: in deliberations. But I don't think anybody really had any 138 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: sympathy for him. Wow, why do you say that? Is that? 139 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: Did y'all talk about that in the jury room? The 140 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: jury deliberations room, we did. We talked about just a 141 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: little bit, because out of the three and a half 142 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: hours that we were in deliberations, only maybe twenty minutes 143 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: of it talked about the two murder for higher charges. 144 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: The rest of the time we talked about the animal charges. 145 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: So we talked about how he would his attorney would 146 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: ask him a question and he would go way too 147 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: far with the answers and his attorney would have to 148 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: stop him. He offered up far more information than what 149 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: his attorney obviously wanted him to let us know. So 150 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: we talked about things like that, but nobody, I mean, 151 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: there were people that felt bad if he would have 152 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: to go to prison. I wasn't one of those people. 153 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: But there were jurors that were sad about that, and 154 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: I just okay, Chris, and whoa wait a minute. They 155 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: were sad because the guy that shot tigers dead in 156 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: the cage, he was not being attacked. The tiger was 157 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: not trying to attack anybody else. He just shot it 158 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: dead in the cage. And you hire a hit man 159 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: not once, but twice to kill a lady on our 160 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: bike or cut off our head. So Gerrards actually felt 161 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: bad he would have to go to jail. Are you serious. 162 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: We had a few jurors that were crying when we 163 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: went back into the courtroom, and I was, like I said, 164 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: I wasn't one of those people. We had a job 165 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: to do, and um, and I actually watched his reaction. 166 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: I some of the other jurors kept their heads down, 167 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: but um, were they embarrassed? I think they just felt bad. Um, 168 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: I just didn't. I felt like he deserved it. Crime 169 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Was 170 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: he that likable? Kristen? Was he likable when he took 171 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: the stay? Tell me how he did on the stay? 172 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: And maybe he was sympathetic on the stand and some 173 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: of the garrars felt some kind of connection to him. Well, Um, 174 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: I didn't, that's for sure. But he Um, he was 175 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: a fake crier. I was pretty close to him, so 176 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: I could tell that when he was wiping his face 177 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: there were no tears. But he did make a grand 178 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: gesture of it. Um, I love it when people fake crying. Court. Okay, 179 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: when you say he made a gesture, please tell me 180 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: what he would do. I have to know this, Christen. 181 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: He would wipe both of his eyes and flick the 182 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: tears away and and I mean I think he felt 183 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: like the we were in the splash zone of his 184 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: of his tears. He was flicking them so hard, but 185 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: there was there was no tears. There was. That was 186 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: all fake. Um. When you flick. He would actually wipe 187 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: and flick almost off his hand. He actually did it 188 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: in one of the episodes where he was crying and 189 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: he um would kind of wipe his eyes real hard 190 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: and and make this big flicking motion with his hands 191 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: and you're you're flicking water off your hands. Okay, I 192 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: got it. He did that in court? He did yeah, 193 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: And I just I was just dumbfounded. And some of 194 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: the things he did, Um, oh, please tell me what 195 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: what dumbfounded you? What else did he do in court? Well? Um, 196 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: the one that stands out the most is that his 197 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: attorney was asking him about where he was one day 198 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: when he got a phone call and what he did 199 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: when he got that phone call. And I think he 200 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: said he was in Oklahoma City or Edmund or something, 201 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: and um, so he headed back to the zoo, but 202 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: they stopped at a motel on the way and filmed 203 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: a softcore porn and his attorney was just shaking his 204 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: head and he said, okay, that's enough and had to 205 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: just drink that in Kristen hold On. So he's in 206 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and he's on the way back and he 207 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: stopped at a motel to watch a little porn did 208 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: I get that right? No, to film a softcore Okay? 209 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: What what? What? Yeah? He just pulled off and filmed 210 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: some porn. Yes, I don't know that enough. When I 211 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: thought you said he watched some porn, I didn't know 212 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: you said he filmed. Okay, all right, okay, since that's 213 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: not a felony proceed I wonder who's filming the porn with. 214 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I am sure that I wasn't 215 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: the only juror that was afraid that might come into 216 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: evidence and we'd have to watch it. Okay, but okay, 217 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: wait a minute, let me let me get my head off. 218 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: Joe exotic filming porn and that's gonna be hard to do. 219 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: But I'm gonna move on. So what else did he 220 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: do in the courtroom? Beside admit without being asked that 221 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: he was filming porn? What else did he do in court? Um? 222 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: It was just a lot of trying to elaborate on 223 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: certain things. When they would ask a question, he would 224 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: try to sneak in other things and other like he 225 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: would say if it wasn't for her first dead husband, 226 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: and then they would object or it was things like that, 227 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: And of course we had no idea what he was 228 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: even talking about. But he did try to sneak things in. 229 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: Looking back on it, I remember a few of those things, 230 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: but the prosecution stopped him pretty quickly and we never 231 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: even talked about it. We had didn't even know what 232 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: it was about. Did you guys in court see any 233 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: of his show that he filmed or he would talk 234 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: about one in Carol Baskin's Head in a Jar? Did 235 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: you see any of that on and I guess on YouTube? 236 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: Did you get to see any of that? We did? 237 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: We in the jury box. There was one monitor for 238 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: every two people, so we got to see all of 239 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: that right in front of us. And um, when he 240 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: shot the blow up doll, I think everybody jumped. We 241 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: didn't see that coming, um, and just you know, the 242 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: head in the jar and all those kind of things 243 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: that it was very disturbing to see. Um. But yeah, 244 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: we saw all of that. We didn't see any of 245 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: his music videos, but we did see little parts of 246 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: his his internet show, and oh I have seen them 247 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: since and once was enough. That was it was enough 248 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,239 Speaker 1: for me. But um, yeah, he claimed that he had 249 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: a million followers on for his internet show, um, and 250 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: I think that's he didn't say too much more about 251 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: that crime stories with Nancy Grace. Why don't you think 252 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: why do you think? I mean, I have an opinion, 253 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: but why do you think he hated Carol Basking so 254 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: much he wanted to kill her? Well? I think that, Um, 255 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: I think that he didn't like that she well, obviously 256 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: he didn't like that she was attacking him for having 257 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: the cubs. But also there was the the million dollar lawsuit, um, 258 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: which he brought on himself for for naming his company right, 259 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, almost the same name as hers. I think 260 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: it was Entertainment, I think, yeah, and the logo was 261 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: so similar. But I think that I think it all 262 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: came down to just getting even. He just wanted revenge 263 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: for her saying anything bad about his his zoo, and 264 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: he just became obsessed with it. What did you make 265 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: of the first would be hitman, Alan Glover? What did 266 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: you think about him? Well, he, in my opinion, he 267 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: had either been drinking or he had been doing some drugs. 268 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, but when he was on the stand, 269 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: his eyes were bloodshot, he was real sweaty. He was 270 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: just obviously very uncomfortable. I found him believable and I 271 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: think probably the other jury members did too, since nobody 272 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: even questioned that in delivery. I don't think he ever 273 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: intended to kill her or try to kill her when 274 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: he told Joe that he would. I think all along 275 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: he was just going to take the money and run. Yeah, 276 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: I just I found himbelievable. I know that he has 277 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: ever actually oh yeah, yeah, But I mean, who do 278 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: you think is going to be hanging out with Joe 279 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: exotic nuns and priests and virgins? No, what do you 280 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: make I understand that Alan Glover had issues, but no 281 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: one challenged his credibility. You believed him. What about the 282 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: undercover agent? You know, I was thinking about that the 283 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: other day, and I can't even remember what he looks like. 284 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: I know he took the stand, but I just I 285 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: don't remember much about his testimony at all. I guess 286 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: I believe Garretson, and he's he's pretty much the one 287 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: that they gave all the information about it, and the 288 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: FBI agent if I I mean, I'm sure he just 289 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: backed it up. But Garrettson, I felt like when he 290 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: gave all the information about the recordings and and all 291 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: of the things that Joe asked him to do, um 292 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: be involved in the fake ID and the phone and 293 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um. I felt like he was 294 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: very well, there was UM I want to say it 295 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: was in Oh, I don't remember where it was at, 296 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: but they went to some sort of the undercover agents 297 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: fake ID. Well it had to do with UM. Oh 298 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: it actually maybe Yeah, I'm just I remember them talking 299 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: about a fake ID and and for some reason I'm 300 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: thinking it was for Glover, but I could be wrong. Yeah, 301 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: let me ask you this. You had to listen to 302 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: all the tapes of the federal agent speaking to Joe 303 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: Exotic as Exotic was trying to get him to kill Baskin. 304 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: Were the tapes believable? Oh? Yeah, absolutely believable. The undercover 305 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: agent was just he talked like like he actually lived 306 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: at the park. You would never know that he wasn't 307 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: wasn't the kind of person that Garrettson would hang out with. 308 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 1: I can see why Joe had no idea that he 309 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 1: was an FBIA. I guess you now know that Joe Exotic, 310 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: not his real name, has filed a multi million dollar 311 00:24:54,200 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: lawsuit claiming that he was entrapped, that the government let 312 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: him lured him into this. What do you make of that, Kristen, Oh, 313 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: I think that he's grasping at straws. There was absolutely 314 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: no evidence of a setup at all. Everything Everything that 315 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: we were given as far as evidence, was either in 316 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: a video or recording or a text messages or email. 317 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: Everything was documented in some way and it was really 318 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: just a matter of sitting down and going through it 319 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: and putting things together. And there was really no question 320 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: about his guilt on any of the charges. So you're 321 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: telling me that, you guys, once you got injured, deliberations 322 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: taught for about twenty minutes about two hitmen killed Carol Baskin, 323 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: and the rest of the nearly four hours was about 324 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: the lace. See at the Endangered Species the Wildlife Act. 325 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: Why do you thank you guys devoted so much time 326 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: to what happened to the animals? Well, there was we 327 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: had to go through all the documents, um, and we 328 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: went through those one by one and then um, there 329 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: was one juror that wanted to go through a second time. UM. 330 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: But it was just kind of um matching things up 331 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: and and and trying to make sure that what we 332 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: were seeing was actually, um, what the indictment said, righty right, 333 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: it was because these were all forms that we weren't 334 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: familiar with, and and so yeah, we we we only 335 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: had one juror who um was a holdout for a 336 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: little bit on the charges um well, the cubs selling 337 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: the cubs. He was charged one count for each cub 338 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: that he sold across state lines, and another charge was 339 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: for falsifying the document, the USDA document, And so each 340 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: cub there were two charges and one jurg just said 341 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: I can't find because there's the act of selling the cub, 342 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: which is against the Dangerous Species Act, and then there's 343 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: the forging of the documents to sell the cub to 344 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: make it look like the cub was donated or given 345 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: for sanctuary. So yeah, I get it. And the one 346 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: Gerard got hung up on that. Yeah, she just said, 347 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: I just don't think I can find him guilty of 348 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: two charges on each cub. And I said, well, there 349 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: there are two crimes you, I mean, he did it. 350 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: He did both of them, so I don't know if 351 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: you find him guilty on one, you almost have to 352 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: find him guilty on the other. But I mean, it 353 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: didn't wrong for her to come around. What about what 354 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: was the response of the jury, the individual jarrs when 355 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: there were the counts of shooting tigers in their cages. Okay, 356 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: So the story behind those tigers is that there were 357 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: five tigers that were kept in three cages, and somebody 358 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: wanted to board three tigers there and pay to board them, 359 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: and Joe didn't have any empty cages, so he pulled 360 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 1: those five tigers out to empty those cages, and he 361 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: shot those tigers and buried them on his property to 362 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: make money for boarding. That's how little the tigers meant 363 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: to him and how much money meant to him, and 364 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: that was probably the most disturbing thing of anything he did. 365 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: They had a vet come on who had records for 366 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: those tigers, and they were all healthy. They were all 367 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: between I think she said nine and twelve years old, 368 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: and tigers can live to be seventeen or eighteen, so 369 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: they were they had plenty of life left. And Joe 370 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: had tried to say that they were all old and 371 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: they were sick and that he was putting them out 372 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: of their misery, and it was absolutely not true. Did 373 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: he shoot them right there in their cage. I believe 374 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: he pulled them out one at a time, He injected 375 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: something so that they would fall asleep, and then he 376 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: shot him in the head. Who testified to that, Kristen, 377 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: I know that, Eric. I believe it's Cowley. He was 378 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: the first one that testified. He took care of those tigers, 379 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: so he he testified about that. In fact, one of 380 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: them his name was Cuddles, and he was very close 381 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: to that tiger and he started crying on the stand 382 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: when he was talking about it. I believe. I believe 383 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: John Finlay talked about it too, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 384 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: Now that you've seen the Netflix special and there's been 385 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: so much discussion of it, how do you compare And 386 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: I'm not trashing the Netflix special, I watched it too. 387 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: How do you compare what you saw there to what 388 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: you saw in court? Because most people believe what they 389 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: see on TV. They don't get at the jury heard 390 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: evidence that led them to a verdict. How do you 391 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: compare that crazy series of Netflix to what really happened 392 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: in real life? Well, I have a friend who who 393 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: had said to me that this was a docu drama, 394 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: not a document documentary or a docum series, and that's 395 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: exactly what it was. They created storylines that not only 396 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: we didn't see, but but they didn't show what we 397 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: did see. They didn't include that there was evidence about 398 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: the hitman, and they didn't tell the story behind the tigers, 399 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: and they made him out to be almost a victim. 400 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: They made him seem lovable and them he was such 401 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: a good guy, and um, it just wasn't even the 402 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: same story. It did a huge injustice to the jury 403 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: because now people think that we convicted him based on 404 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing. And I know it didn't take us long 405 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: to deliberate, but that's because we were handed everything we needed. 406 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: And I think his ego was so big that he 407 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: really thought that that there was no way he'd be 408 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: found guilty. Chreston, what was his reaction when guilty was 409 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: read out in the courtroom. He put his head down. 410 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: He was obviously upset. He at one point looked each 411 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: juror in the face and was kind of shaking his head. 412 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: And I can tell you that I didn't get the 413 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: feeling that his attorneys were surprised at all. But but 414 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: you know, they also can remain stoic or in verdicts 415 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: of all the trials I've seen, so I don't think 416 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: that's an indication of anything. But he was he was 417 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: surprised Kristen, what has your life been like since the 418 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: verdict and since the documentary or as you say, docudrama 419 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:25,719 Speaker 1: aired on Netflix. Um, well, I mean after the trial, 420 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,239 Speaker 1: and I could tell people, you know, what trial I 421 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: had was a juror on and they had some questions 422 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: but not tons. But now once this came out, they, 423 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: my friends and my friends friends ask a lot of 424 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: questions about about him and what it was like in 425 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: the courtroom. And I mean, I can't answer a lot 426 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: about a lot of the people that were on the 427 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: the show because they not all of them took the stand. 428 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: Only some of them did. And and I was honestly 429 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: disappointed that Jeff Low didn't take the stand. I did 430 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: kind of want to hear how he was tied into 431 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: it all, but he never took the stand. I mean, 432 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: to people act like you did the wrong thing, and 433 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: some of them now do. Yeah, they'll they'll say, what 434 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: did you convict him on? There was nothing there, There 435 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: was no evidence, And I said, well that's because that 436 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: wasn't a courtroom show. That wasn't They didn't show the trial. 437 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: They showed you what they want you to believe. And 438 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: you just have to remember that that is all for entertainment. 439 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: That is shock value, and you know, don't believe everything 440 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: you see because it really there was so much more 441 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 1: to it than what they're showing you when you look 442 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: back on at Kristen, how do you feel about the 443 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: whole thing? I absolutely feel like we made the right 444 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: desc decision. I think that um, I think that he 445 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: deserved what he got. There's there is no doubt in 446 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: my mind at all that he did every single thing 447 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: in those charges. So I feel very confident with what 448 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: with the decision we make. So grateful that we've gotten 449 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: to actually see you and hear you because it makes 450 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: me know that the jury did the right thing. I 451 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: don't have to question it because I've met a jurar. 452 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about the evidence and how you 453 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: reasoned it. Kristen, thank you from all of us. Can 454 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: I just say one quick thing on this uh this 455 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: last show, Netflix showed that they added his campaign manager 456 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: said that the reason that he was found guilty is 457 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: because Oklahomans don't like Joe exotic and Oklahomans don't like gays. Well, 458 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: I can tell you when I walked in the courtroom, 459 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was, so I had that 460 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. And as far as 461 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: gay people, that it is so insulting that anybody would 462 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: say that about the jury, that that was the reason 463 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: that we came to that verdict. I can tell you 464 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: in deliberations we didn't talk about his husband's we didn't 465 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: talk about his sexual orientation, we didn't talk about anything 466 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: like that. So I just want that to be cleared up, 467 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: that that had no heart in our decision. Kristen, thank 468 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: you for clearing that up, and I'm so glad you 469 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: brought it up. Thank you for being with us.