1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: have something for you and all free E chapter on 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: you online, to fake cures that are being sold on 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: chapter Coronavirus Crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: online dot com. You'll see it there the link and 13 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals and scam artists, 14 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: cons that will not only take advantage of you, but 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and people 16 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: you love. At a time well we are all fighting 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: the virus. I hope you go to crime online dot 18 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented 19 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith by 20 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: now there's nobody left in the United States that has 21 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: a herd of Tiger King Joe Exotic, not his real name, 22 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: who is now sitting behind bars for death threats on 23 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: a competitor, Carol Baskin, but with all of the spotlight 24 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: seemingly in her favor during the Tiger King Joe Exotic 25 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: trial where he was found guilty, that spotlight may have 26 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: turned into an unwanted spotlight in the last hours. It 27 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: is alleged the experts that the signature of Tiger King 28 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: Star Carol Baskins husband on his will is forged. Crime 29 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace it is alleged that the signature 30 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: of Tiger King Star Carol Baskins husband on his will 31 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: is forged. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank 32 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: you for being with us. You know why. You could 33 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: probably fix that by re executing the will. But Don Lewis, 34 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: her husband, is long agone. I can tell you this. 35 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: He didn't just disappear. He didn't take a hike. He 36 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 1: did walk off into the sunset. He's dead. Take a 37 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: listen to this. What a story. It's so wild, it 38 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: must not be true. That's the first thing people think, Oh, 39 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: come on, that can't be true. It's twenty years ago 40 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: cold case. Twenty year old murders don't get solved. Well, 41 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: it all starts, you know, Kalekin kal Meskin, who was 42 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: Kale Lewis at the time, was married to Don lewisk 43 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: oh Good. But I did see Don Lewis about maybe 44 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: a month or so before he disappeared, and he didn't 45 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: mention to me that he felt his life was in danger. 46 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: There are so many strange twists in that story you 47 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: would have to write books, volumes of the stuff that 48 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: went wrong. There lives that are there, all the circumstantial 49 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: evidence somebody did something too done. There's a lot of 50 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: stories about Carol would having some finger in it, but 51 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: nobody can prove it. You're hearing from Netflix special on 52 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: Joe Exotic, including Joe Exotic himself, Joe Multinado passage. What 53 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: is the truth? Now? You know you got to take 54 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: the Netflix documentary with a box of salt, not a pinch, 55 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: because you not that as Netflix's fault. But the people 56 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: that are speaking have never been cross examined. We don't 57 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: know the other side of their story. But with me 58 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: now to break you down and put it all back 59 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: together again as best as we can, and this juncture 60 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: is a special guest, longtime lawyer and friend of Carol 61 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: Baskin's missing husband, Don Lewis, Joseph Fritz, Tom Vastrik, the 62 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: forensic document examiner handwriting ex Bert who was very carefully 63 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: examined the will and all the documents. Karen Stark, New 64 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: York Psychologists joining us today. You can find her at 65 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute, 66 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum, and Crime online dot com 67 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Levi Page. Now you were just hearing from 68 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: the documentary Netflix about Tiger King. Okay, Tiger King is 69 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: in jail right now for he belongs for death threats, 70 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: very public death threats on Carol Baskin. But all that 71 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: attention heaped on Tiger King, that Carol Baskin herself whipped 72 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,559 Speaker 1: up as now directed to her now, Cheryl McCollum, Director 73 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: Coldcase Research Institute. That's quite a turn of events, isn't it. 74 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: That first she wanted the attention on exotic, but now 75 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: that same spotlights on her and it ain't pretty, it 76 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: ain't pretty, and it ain't going away, Nancy. That spotlight 77 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: he missed thing up. You know, I'm finding more about 78 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: the zoo industry than I ever wanted to know. Take 79 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: a listen to this. I don't believe she ever appeared 80 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly heartbroken that her husband was missing. I don't know 81 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: if it's because he had another life with the mistress 82 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: down in Costa Rica, if she knew this marriage was 83 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: coming to an end. But again, my wife is my world. 84 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: If it was yesterday, today, or twenty years from now, 85 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: I would dedicate my life. I would post rewards everywhere, 86 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: there would be signs everywhere. My new life's work would 87 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: be trying to find my wife. This never happened, No, 88 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: it never did happen. You were hearing Sheriff Chad Kronister 89 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: telling me about what he observed and what was observed 90 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: by others at the time Don Lewis goes missing straight 91 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: out to you special guests joining us attorney and longtime 92 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: confidant of Don Lewis, who I believe is dead, Joseph Ritch, 93 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: Joseph Fritz. I'm gonna go back to the time that 94 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: he goes missing. But what do you make of the 95 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: new bombshell that this document? The will is absolutely no 96 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: doubt about it forged. I think I've got Joseph Fritz 97 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: with me. Is he still upwards a satellite drop? Joy there? Okay, 98 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: let me know when we get him back. In the meantime, 99 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: I'll circle to Tom Vastrick, forensic document examiner, handwriting expert. 100 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: Same question to you, Tom, what do you make of it? Well? 101 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: In conducting the examination of the Durable Family Power of 102 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: Attorney and the will, both of which were created on 103 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: November twenty one and nineteen ninety six, I was struck 104 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: by the uncanny similarity between each set of signatures, not 105 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: only Don Lewis's signatures, but the two witness signatures and 106 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 1: the notary signatures. When I crossed compared each of those 107 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: sets of signatures, they were just ridiculously similar to each other. 108 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: It wasn't an exact replication, because if you have exact replication, 109 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: what that means it's just a copy of one signature. 110 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: But it was nearly exact replication to the extempt that 111 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: I was very confidently able to oppine that what I 112 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: was dealing with with, at least mister Lewis's signature, was 113 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: that these signatures were traced, and they were traced using 114 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: a model from a marriage record that had been executed 115 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: and filed with the county five years before the execution 116 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: of the will. We wait, Guys with me is handwriting 117 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: expert Thomas Vastrik, and he says the will, signatures and 118 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: power of attorney documents related to Don Lewis, the long 119 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: missing husband of Carol Baskin, are forged. Now, let me 120 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. Typically, I think handmriding experts, and 121 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: I've direct and cross examined quite a few of them, 122 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: they like it when your signature matches your last known signature. 123 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: But you're telling me that all the signatures had basically 124 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: been forged, not just Don Lewis, that like the witness, 125 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: the notary, everybody's was forged. Well, I understand as a 126 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: document examiner, I don't use the word forged because that's 127 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: a legal term. But it's my opinion that these signatures 128 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: are traced traced. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna follow your 129 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: example and say traced traced off the marriage document or 130 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: Don Lewis. Yes, I do not have the source document 131 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: for either the notary or the two other witnesses, so 132 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: I have to leave open the possibility that of each 133 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: set of signatures. There were three three, three signatures of 134 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: each of the notary and the two witnesses. Since I 135 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: do not have the model signature from anyone else other 136 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: than Lewis, all I could say at this point is 137 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: at least two of them were traced. One of them 138 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: could be genuine. Theoretically which one was? We're traced, tom Well, 139 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: I can't say for a fact until such time as 140 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: I locate a model signature for them. But with mister Lewis, 141 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: we have found the model signature. Now you told the 142 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: Clarion Ledger that Don Lewis's signature was traced on the 143 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: will the power of attorney as well time stories with 144 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, if the signature of Don Lewis was traced, 145 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: Carol Baskin as in a whole world of trouble. Now, 146 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: handwriting experts can disagree, So maybe she can find a 147 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: handwriting example expert there will say something entirely different. In 148 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: the meantime, listen to this. The investigation indicated Carol had 149 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: left Wildlife on Easy Street to drive to a nearby 150 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: store named Albertson's to pick up some milk by products 151 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: for the catch. This is at three o'clock in the morning, 152 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: her car broke down and Carol and ran into her brother, 153 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: who was accompanied by another deputy. The second deputy gave 154 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: her a ride back to her home. After that, Carol 155 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: indicated the last time that she saw her husband was 156 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: just several hours later and never seen again. And I 157 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: don't know, but I would have hoped that the detectives 158 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: would have pursued that and made sure that there was 159 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: nothing out of the ordinary about that. Maybe if you 160 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: have a sheriff that's in there that's saying, you know, hey, 161 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: this guy's kind of crazy and you know, dementia and 162 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: he does this all the time, he's probably in you know, 163 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: maybe the sheriff's partner would drag your feet at that 164 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: point and be like, well, you know, let's just wait 165 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: and see where it goes. Guys, you're taking you're hearing 166 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: the movements of Carol baskin the night that Don Lewis 167 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: seemingly vanished off the face of the earth, or did 168 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: he now. New allegations are being raised because in the 169 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: last hours, a handwriting expert says there's no doubt about 170 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: it in his mind. Don Lewis, Carrol Baskin's missing husband 171 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: signature was traced on the will. So what about the 172 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: witness that says they saw him sign the will? Guess 173 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: what that witness Hazri Canton and says, no, they did 174 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: not witness him signing the wheel. That in itself is 175 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: a problem. And why is Carol Baskin out getting tiger 176 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: milk at three am in the morning? When Don Lewis 177 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: goes missing? To leave, I page climb online dot Com 178 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: investigative reporter leave, Let's start at the beginning. Let's start 179 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: with him going missing. What can you tell me? So? 180 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: Carol Baskin said, the last time that she saw her husband, 181 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: Don Lewis, was twenty three years ago, August eighteenth, nineteen 182 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: ninety seven, and she said that the last thing that 183 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: he said to her was that he was leaving early, early, 184 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: early the next morning to transport cars to Costa Rica. 185 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: He visited there often and he was reported missing August nineteenth, 186 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. And then days later, his van was 187 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: found abandoned at the airport forty miles away from the sanctuary, 188 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: and the keys were in the floorboard in a brief 189 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: his briefcase was found inside. You know, I spoke in 190 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: depth with people at that airport and they indicate that 191 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: it's so small they would definitely have seen Don Lewis 192 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: pulling in. Guys, we are talking about a bobshell allegation 193 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: made in the last hours that the will signed by 194 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: Carol Basket's missing husband Don Lewis was forged. Straight out 195 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: to Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase Research Institute, way in Fancy, 196 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: My issue is the pre and post behavior of Caryl Basket. 197 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: So if she went to that store at three am, 198 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: how many times prior had she ever done that? I 199 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: want to know that. The second thing, excuse me, you 200 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: and I or in a career Nancy, where people come 201 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: to us if anything criminally has gone on with a 202 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: loved one in their family. Even Chucky Mask, his mama 203 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: reached out to your brother, who immediately came to you. 204 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: I mean, they just do that. I want to know 205 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: why her brother has not been front and center on 206 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: this thank He didn't put out any posters, he didn't 207 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: become the family spokesperson, he didn't go to the sheriff 208 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: and say, didn't We've got to find my brother in law. 209 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: He's been virtually ma that I can find So forget 210 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: Carol not searching and not putting up posters and not 211 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: offering a reward. The lawman and the family didn't do 212 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: it either. Back to forensic document examinery handwriting expert Tom Vastrik, Tom, 213 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: how did you get involved in the case? I was 214 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: asked to sunducting examination for a couple of different newspapers, 215 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: one in Tampa and one in Jackson, Mississippi. And it 216 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: was the investigative reporters that submitted the documentation to me 217 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: for examination. And what documents were you examining? Well? In 218 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: addition to the will, the durable power turn, I was 219 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: provided the marriage record form. I was provided a number 220 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: of different notarized document notorization documents from the notary and 221 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: about twenty documents with mister Lewis's signature on the joining me. Now, 222 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: I think we've managed to get a satellite up. Is 223 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: a longtime friend and lawyer for missing husband Don Lewis. 224 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: Joseph Fritz. Joseph Fritz, thank you, thank you for being 225 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: with us. I got a question for you. Have you 226 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: heard the latest bombshell that, according to at least one 227 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: handwriting expert, that will was traced, that signature is not 228 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: Don Lewis's. Well, first, I want to correct something. It's 229 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: not a will. It's a part of attorney. Part of 230 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: attorney handles your affairs while you're alive. It dies with 231 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: the person. Only a testamentary trust for a will can 232 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: handle it. Patrick. He is saying, actually that the will 233 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: and the power of attorney were both traced off the 234 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: marriage record. I don't much care about the will, huh. 235 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: I don't care about that. She managed to move their 236 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: money and assets and property via the power of attorney, 237 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: not the will. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, 238 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: hold on. You're talking lawyer talk talk, regular people talk. 239 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: You're saying that the power of attorney is what Carol Baskin, 240 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: according to you, used to move all the money and assets, 241 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: not the will. Too had too because he wasn't declared 242 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: dead for five years later. Yes, brilliant, Yes, absolutely, So 243 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: let me tell you. Let me point out some mills. Yeah, 244 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: Carol certifies that that's her signature on the power of 245 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: attorney because she used that power of attorney to transfer 246 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: all of their assets. Okay, hold on, let me let 247 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: me interpret what you're saying as a lawyer. So Don 248 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: Lewis goes miss. But even though she is the now 249 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: sole beneficiary of all of his money, if he dies 250 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: or quote disappears, that's a funny clause. And a will, 251 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: all the money's gonna go to hurt. But until he 252 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: is declared dad, which takes five years in that jurisdiction, 253 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: she can't do anything under the will, but under a 254 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: power of attorney, which gives somebody control over your state 255 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: when you're incapacitated or missing, the power of attorney can 256 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: move all your money anyway they want to. Now I 257 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: get why you don't care about the will. That threw 258 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: me for a loop, just for a moment, But now 259 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: I get it. Okay, let me rephrase my question. What 260 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: do you make of it? Joseph Frit's, long time attorney 261 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: and confidant of Don lewis that at least one handwriting 262 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: expert says the power of attorney and will were traced 263 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: off the marriage document. Somebody said at my office had 264 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: had the pictures and was able to lay one over 265 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: the other on their cell phone and they are a 266 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: perfect match. Even I agree with that. Um, I believe 267 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: it was traced heard several handwriting. I think there's as 268 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: many as six and ready experts. Now I think it's 269 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: up to six. One of one of them m is 270 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: the one that did to take Kazynski Uni bomber case. Wow, 271 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: that's not shabby. No no, no, no, that's high high, high, 272 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: high high. You know things, A high paid expert right there. Hey, 273 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: Joseph Fritz, have you ever in court? Because I have 274 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: brought on a handwriting expert once, really, because I can't 275 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: find many lawyers that have done it, so I always 276 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: like to, you know, brag that I have done it 277 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: many times. But my first one was a bank robbery note. 278 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: Lucky for me, that bank robber was also dyslexic, so 279 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: he would flip letters and he did the same thing 280 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: in the bank robbery note that he did in his 281 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: handwriting exemplar. So that was very persuasive. But that's where 282 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: I learned about how you make your A and your 283 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: B and how you dot your eye and literally cross 284 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: your tea. What case did you have where you used 285 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: a handwriting expert? Believe it or not? I think was 286 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: it a bankruptcy adversary proceeding? Oh? I do believe it. 287 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: People will lie about money, and that's what I think 288 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: we may have here. So you don't expect a perfect 289 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: likeness for every signature. There should be some derivation and spacing. 290 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: But what did you observe when you put one over 291 00:20:43,840 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: the other. Joseph Fritz identical, just identical, perfect match time 292 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the disappearance 293 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: and as Joseph Fritz and I belie death of Don Lewis. 294 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: Now we have one handwriting expert who has actually looked 295 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: at the documents, very well respected in his profession, Tom Vastrik, 296 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: and he says it was traced. That's the way what 297 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: we call forged. All right, if they were forged, Joseph Fritz, 298 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: what does that mean, Well, it means that she wrongfully 299 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: and has to at least be called to do that 300 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: because she says that that's her signature. She is what 301 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: we would call stops for the diamond because she used 302 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: that power of attorney to transferred properties, would move moneies, tshit, 303 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 1: use any of the Indian things she had to do. 304 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: She used it and said that's that's me. I believe 305 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: that it was a forgery. From what I've said, I 306 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: believe the statue of limitations has run twenty one years ago. 307 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: Thank you, Sheriff's department. The statue on forgery has run. 308 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: But there's a lot bigger kettle of fish brewing than 309 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: the forgery, the alleged forgery. Of course, of course there is, 310 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: and there's no statue. There's no limitation on that. But 311 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: my point is I was interviewed after Tiger came by 312 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: our sheriff's department, finally twenty four years late. But anyway, 313 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: I was, and I mentioned something about the power of attorney. 314 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: The two signatures have done in the cattle on the 315 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: same same document, And our Sheriff's department said that they 316 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: had a handwriting expert too. Would you deal with a 317 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: murdered detective or homicide detective? Information is a one way streat. 318 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: You never told me what they're what they're handwriting, guys said, 319 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: But he said they had examined subal documents, quite a 320 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: few documents. Did you ask him, Yes, I did. I 321 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: just got I got a brick wall information. There's a 322 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: one way street with a detective. You know that, you 323 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: know you know who is that way the FEDS. And 324 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: I was a fed myself before I became a violent 325 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: crime prosecutor. You try to get the Feds to tell 326 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: you anything. Forget about it, guys. Now another development, if 327 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: you can imagine that in the case of Tiger King, 328 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: Joe Exotic and Carol Baskin, more than one handwriting expert 329 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: has come forward to say Don Lewis's will and power 330 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: of attorney were traced, traced overly. When you were in 331 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: grammar school or high school, you wanted to sign your 332 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: parents name to something, hold it up to the window 333 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: and trace it over. Not that I would ever do that, 334 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: but that's what we're talking about, and regular people talk forged. 335 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: Forged would be the legal term. But what about all 336 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: of those witnesses, those witnesses that claim they were there 337 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: when the will was signed? Could you please play cut eleven. 338 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what Sheriff Chad Kronister tells me. 339 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: One of the individuals who came forward and said that 340 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: she witnessed all the signatures fast forward from nineteen ninety 341 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: seven to two thousand and six. She came forward said 342 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: she felt pressured at the time to say that it 343 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: was signed by everyone, and then she wanted to recant 344 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: her story and said she did not witness the signatures. Well, 345 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: who pressured her to write to sign that she saw 346 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: Don Lewis sign as will who pressured her. According to her, well, 347 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: there's one person that's not here any longer, so I 348 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: think we could all deduct the fact that it had 349 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: to be Carol. And I think she says that in 350 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: her statement, I'm pretty confident. She says that she to 351 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: prove her allegiance to Carol, that she felt pressured into 352 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: saying that she witnessed those signatures. And again as time 353 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: goes forward, she feels more comfortable once to get off 354 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: her chest, calls investigators with our office and says, hey, listen, 355 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: I have to tell you I didn't witness that will 356 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: being signed. That is a huge bombshell that a witness 357 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: comes forward, Cheryl McCollum, you're the Cold Case Research Institute 358 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: director on a will, when the witness to the will 359 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: comes forward and goes, I really didn't see what I 360 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: said I saw. That's huge, Cheryl McCollum. That is tremendous. 361 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: And not get that, Nancy. Every single person that watch 362 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: that series Tiger King Fall firsthand. When Carol Baskin wants 363 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: to put on a full court prayer, you want to 364 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: talk about pressure, She comes after you with everything she got. 365 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: She brings other nonprofits in, She starts creating ways to 366 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: change laws to come after you. She makes comments and newspapers. 367 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: She does all of this before you ever even meet her. 368 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking back, and I mean talking about 369 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: taking somebody's comment with a box of sault. How about 370 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: a pound of sault to everything? Joe Exotic says, don't 371 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: get mad at me, but that man lies every time 372 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: his lips moved, So I can't really put any credence 373 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: in what he says. But now that handwriting experts are 374 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: coming forward, Now that we know at least one witness 375 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: is saying I did not witness the will being signed, 376 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: this is changing the landscape of this case drastically. I've 377 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: been withholding judgment on Carol Baskin because it's hard to 378 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: have a clear head when all you're hearing is hype. Well, 379 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 1: you don't know the real facts. But I keep going 380 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: back to when he disappeared. Do you remember, hey, let's 381 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: hear cut eighteen. There was never any reward posted for 382 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: his disappearance. Was there ever an online plea or a 383 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: televised plea to help find him? Buy Carol Baskin again, 384 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: it's my understanding there was never any type of overt 385 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: action taken to try to find out where her husband was. 386 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: Do you know, Sheriff Chronster, if she came to the 387 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: Sheriff's office day in, day out, week by week trying 388 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: to find out what's the latest in my husband's disappearance. 389 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: I do know that the answers no, that that never happened. 390 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: Even as recent as two eleven. Was the last communication 391 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: that we had for her, And that's when we asked 392 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: her to come in to take a polygraph, and she declines, 393 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: said it wouldn't vindicate her of any type of in 394 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: any way, shape or form, and at the same time, 395 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: it wouldn't prohibit the Sheriff's office from taking future criminal 396 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: actions against her, So she declined to take a polygraph. 397 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: Not only does Tom Vastek forensic document examiner, handwriting experts 398 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: say the will the power of attorney was traced translation 399 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: forged their handwriting. The expert Willa Smith concurs and says 400 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: the signature was quote the product of tracing. And it 401 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: goes on and on. Now six experts to Joseph Fritz, 402 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: friend and longtime lawyer for Don Lewis, which another piece 403 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: of listening to this Jackie circumstantial evidence. Fritz has been 404 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: his lawyer and his friend for twenty plus years, but 405 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: he doesn't go to Fritz to get his will drawn up. 406 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean, Fritz probably has one space to intern operating procedure. 407 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: Will is printed out of the computer and sign it bam. 408 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: I find that very, very odd that he didn't go 409 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: to Fritz to write up his will. So, Joseph Fritz, 410 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: do you remember when you heard Don Lewis was missing? 411 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: A yeah from Ann McQueen. And what first crossed your 412 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: mind when you learned he was gone? A play? You know, 413 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: That's what people, friends, relatives I murder victims say all 414 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: the time when the person goes missing. They go, oh, 415 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: they're not missing, they're dead. I can tell you that 416 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: right now. And that's not just a jumping the gun. 417 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: That's based on years of observation. So at this juncture, 418 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: Joseph Fritz, when you'll look back on the time around 419 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: when Don Luis goes missing, do you remember how Carol 420 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: Baskin went out that night at three am for tiger 421 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: milk and then her car broke down and she had 422 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: a witness from the Sheriff's depart become help her. And 423 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: it was therefore documented every which way that she was 424 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: on her own out and about at the time he disappeared. 425 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: Do you remember that I've heard that, Yeah, but I 426 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: remember that I didn't see it. Do you remember hearing 427 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: about his vehicle being found at the airport with his 428 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: briefcase and his keys in it? Would he have ever 429 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: done that? He could be a little stead of brain, 430 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: but he was. He was together. He might have left 431 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: his keys somewhere or something, but he wouldn't leave a 432 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: van and a briefcase and papers and keys and everything. 433 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: He wouldn't do it. What if anything can be done? 434 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: We know that the Statue of limitations which says a 435 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: criminal case you can only even brought for X number 436 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: of years after the crime on forgery, on any alleged forgery. 437 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure Carol Baskin denies this. What do we do now, Fritz? 438 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: Somewhere in the course of time, somebody needs to call 439 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: this what it is, a murder investigation. It's not even 440 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: classified as that, as last I heard. How hard is that? Really? 441 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: Want to point out? Go ahead, the sheriff can flip 442 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: a switch and it's a murder investigation. It's not hard 443 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: at all. You don't need to open something. I mean 444 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: it's open, it's just idling, kind of been neutral. But 445 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: the interine is running. Cheryl McCollum, how hard would it be. 446 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: It's not hard at all. And I honestly believe that's 447 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: the scene done right now. I believe that the Sheriff's 448 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: apartment is working it to see what they can piece together. 449 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: I know for a fact they've reinterviewed people. And I 450 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: think this case is kind of in overdrive, reckless minute 451 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: because Nancy, here's one of the most important things to me. 452 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: Carol Baskins supposedly went and picked that van up and 453 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: drove it home. Yet when that van was processed, there 454 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: was no fingerprints in it none. Well, her should have 455 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: been in it. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, take 456 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut fifteen. What Chrimester says about 457 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: the disappearance of Don lewis we have a little window 458 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: there when who's this appearance occurred from the day almost 459 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: two days that it took for her to report him, 460 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: and a couple of days that people had besides her 461 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: that hadn't seen him. You have a few days in 462 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: there that I believe that's when that's when he was killed. 463 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: So we've got about a four hour, excuse me, a 464 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: four day window where he could have been killed. Nobody 465 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: saw him at Big Cat, no one, no banker, no friend, 466 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: no lawyer. Nobody saw him for about two days before 467 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: he went to Costa Rica. That's it. No telephone calls, 468 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: no business transactions. So again I think that these are 469 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: more details that only make make this death more suspicious 470 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: and only lead us to believe that again it was 471 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: a homicide. You know, Karen start with me. New York 472 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: psychologists joining us at karen start dot com. Karen, I've 473 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: just been thinking a lot of about the witness that 474 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: now comes forward claiming that she did not witness Don 475 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: Lewis signed the will, that she was pressured into it. 476 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: You know, I think that you know, according to Freud, 477 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: your personality is formed by the time you're four. And 478 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: the twins told me the other day that one of 479 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: their classmates texted them that they wanted the answers because 480 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: they've both made as in math and John David made 481 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: a ninety nine point eight. They wanted the twins to 482 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: give them answers to the final exam. They said no, 483 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: And these were some of their good little friends, and 484 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: they both said, no, don't worry. I've looked at their 485 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: text to make sure they're telling me the truth. How 486 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: do you suddenly one day just flick a switch, I 487 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: decide you're going to do the wrong thing. And something 488 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: as important as a multi million dollar estate like Don 489 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: Lewis's was so much riding on it. What kind of 490 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: coercion would make you just go, sure, I'll fake it. Well, Nancy, 491 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: this sounds to me very self serving. The coercion I 492 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: would expect, or maybe smile had to do with the 493 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: money and how much money she might have been getting. 494 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that this witness didn't seem to 495 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: come forward until everyone started to question what happened to him, 496 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: and they question what happened to him because of the 497 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: success of the documentary. All of a sudden, there was 498 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: this glaring gap of this man. He disappeared, How did 499 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: he disappear? What became of him? And so this witness, 500 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm assuming just decided, you know what I'm going to 501 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: get in a lot of t i'd better come forward. 502 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: And I think that's what happened. I see what you're saying. 503 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: It's not a sudden fit of veracity, or suddenly you 504 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: take off your devil's horns and put on a halo. 505 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: All right, you think, okay, he's missing. He was killed 506 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: for money? Maybe, And I'm the one that witnessed the will, 507 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: row I better cough up. Now we'll listen to what 508 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: the sheriff has to say about this. Do you believe, 509 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: Sheriff Chronister that Don Lewis's will was forged? Believe this 510 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: will was forged? I don't. A couple of different reasons. 511 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: One someone who said they witnessed at the time, at 512 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: the time, the signatures recancerr story, and again I think 513 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: the biggest part is the first time ever hearing that 514 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: someone put a disappearance clause to make sure that they 515 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: received the full benesit full benefits of an executed will. Guys, 516 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: you're hearing what Chronister says if he thinks the will 517 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: was forged. Now, what did you say, Joseph Fritz? As 518 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: six hand running experts have said it was traced, I 519 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: believe it's up to six And now I've heard a 520 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: body language expert chime in too, with the pictures of her. Again, 521 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: Chronister just made the same thing about the will of 522 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 1: the will of the will. We're talking about the will. 523 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: The will never got probated. It was never a thought. 524 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: It never went to court because he died owing nothing, 525 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: owning nothing, because everything had been transferred with the power 526 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: of attorney. I don't care about the will. Okay, then 527 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: let's talk about the power of attorney. How about that? Okay? 528 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: So what do we do now, Fritz, What if anything 529 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: can we do now? Well, the touch of limitations criminally 530 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: has run. Civilly, it has run. They're both five years 531 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: on written well, five years on a felony and five 532 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: years on a civil suit to recover the money for 533 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: the estate. The will of the will is obviously no good. 534 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: I wouldn't probate it it. I wouldn't put it into 535 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: probate court because everybody said it's for it. Okay, I 536 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 1: believe it. What you have to do is plot on 537 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: and get the murder indictment. Well, here's the thing, without 538 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: a body, how is that going to happen? To Cheryl 539 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: McCallin direct to Coal Case Research Institute, Well, mean to 540 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: you and I both know there's some really extraordinary people 541 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: that have had great success with nobody cases. What you're 542 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: gonna do is you're gonna build this thing up as 543 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: a murder investigation, and you're gonna combine every single piece 544 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: of this puzzle. And I like the fact they have 545 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: the will and the power of attorney, not how she 546 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: might have used them, but to show when her mind, 547 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: if his body's recovered, I've got the will if it's not, 548 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: and I've got the power of attorney. Either way, it 549 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: game owned for her. She covered her basis. So you 550 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: look at like what you're doing and the evidence that 551 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: you're bringing out. You've got people like Jerry Mitchell and 552 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: ripper Jack and Nosey Wren. They're doing some incredible things online. 553 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: Just like don't f with cats, honey, this is don't 554 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: f with bigger cats. People are putting this thing together, 555 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: and they're putting a ton of the piece of this 556 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: puzzle right out in front of God's Country. A big, 557 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: a big piece of this puzzle is Anne McQueen, who 558 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: was Donald Lewis's executive assistant. I want you to take 559 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: a listen to what she says on Netflix. I got 560 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,919 Speaker 1: a phone call stating that the office alarm had gone 561 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: off and Carol was there. Her and Kenny Farr had 562 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: cut the locks on the gate cut, the locks on 563 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: the office cut, the power to the trailer, got the water, 564 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: got the sewer. The cops come because the alarm went off, 565 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: and McQueen come up because that was that's her office. 566 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, that's she's been here for years. 567 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: There were two wheels, and there were two power attorneys 568 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: in my office in a box underneath my desk. But 569 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: whatever paperwork or whatever they needed, there was nothing that 570 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: the cops could do the stopular wife thinking anything. The 571 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: will and the power attorney, they were all taken out 572 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 1: the office that day. I was an executor for both 573 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: of their wills. I was the power of attorney for 574 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: both of them. Who was the power of attorney on 575 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: the new documents Carol produced? I mean so to Joseph Fritz, 576 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: longtime friend and lawyer for Don Lewis, Carroll Baskin's missing husband, 577 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 1: let me understand what McQueen is saying. This is Don Luis, 578 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: this long time twenty plus years executive assistant, that she 579 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: had been the executor on the power of attorney and 580 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: the will. There were two copies of them in a 581 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: box under her desk. She gets a call because the 582 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: alarm went off goes to her office. This is after 583 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: Lewis disappears. She gets to her office and there is 584 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: Carol Baskin. The will and the power of attorney is gone, 585 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: and now there's a new will and power of attorney. 586 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 1: She and McQueen is no longer. The executor is now 587 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: Carol Baskin. Do I have the chronology right? I'm sure 588 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: you do. Dang, okay, leave my page. What else can 589 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: you tell me about the investigation? Now? Well, Nancy, this 590 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: investigation has been reopened. The sheriff says that he gets 591 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: six tips a day about this case, all thanks to 592 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: the Netflix series Tiger King, and the more that this 593 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: case is in the public, the more tips he's going 594 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: to get. This is not slowing down anytime soon. To you, 595 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: Joseph Fritz, what do you think is going to take 596 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: for a murder investigation and a murdered case to move forward. 597 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: I've always said that somebody has to stub their toe 598 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: legally and want to get out of jail free card 599 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: and spill the beans on what exactly happened. And I've 600 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: heard the sheriff say that, you know, all deals are 601 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: on the table, So that's what I think is going 602 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: to break the case. Who would in the position to 603 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: know all that, Joseph, but know what to know any 604 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,280 Speaker 1: of the details that would be probitive in a murder 605 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 1: case beside masking the sure if I said multiple people 606 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: were involved, I believe. I believe as he does, and 607 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: I believe that one did the murder, one conspired to 608 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: do a murder. Your contract. Yet, as far as I'm concerned, 609 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: there's all sorts of people around there that you know 610 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: that have ever could have information. And to you, Tom Vastric, 611 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: forensic document examiner, handwriting expert, do you have any doubt 612 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: in your mind that that power of attorney and that 613 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: will the signature of Don Lewis was traced. No, I 614 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: don't have any doubt. I'm remind at all. And I'd 615 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: also want to bring up something You've mentioned that one 616 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 1: of the witnesses as free candid, and I want to 617 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: remind you there's also a second witness and a notary. 618 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: I would be interested in what they have to say. 619 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: Oh brilliant, You're so right, Tom Vastrick. And could you 620 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: tell me one more time? I mean, I'm just a JD. 621 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: I'm not a handwriting expert. Why you're convinced that Lewis's 622 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: signature was traced. It is far, far too similar with 623 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,439 Speaker 1: each other. Every every time you sign your name, there's 624 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: a level of variation from one signature to the next, 625 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: and these are just way, way too similar. I did 626 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: not find this a difficult determination at all, So it 627 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: was easy. Nothing's ever easy in arm our field, but 628 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: it's not difficult. You know, you said something really interesting 629 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: just then, you said that there's a slight derivation every 630 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: time you sign your signature. Why do you what what derivation? 631 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: What's different? Well, you're you're talking about the Gurler control 632 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: of the human. You can you can't repeat that process 633 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: of complication like that with exact, precise replication. So there's 634 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: going to be that natural level of variation in virtually 635 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: anything that a human does, and it shows itself in 636 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: its handwriting through what we call natural variation. So when 637 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: you get multiple signatures that have the level of similarity 638 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: that you have here, it tells us that this is 639 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: not normal natural writing. Something is a miss. Now if 640 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: it was an exact replication, that would tell me what 641 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm dealing with. Its copies of the same signature, because 642 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: that's the only way that can happen like with a 643 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: rubber stamp, or are scanning it onto a computer and 644 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: having it artificially placed onto a document. But when you 645 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: get this level of consistency between multiple signatures but still 646 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: just that little bit of differences one signature to another, 647 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: that is a characteristic tracing and really nothing else. All right, 648 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 1: Sheriff Cronister, it's in your court. I did that's a question. 649 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: If I can't, yes, jump in. Yeah. The handwriting folks 650 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 1: have have all reached the conclusion that they was traced. 651 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:17,839 Speaker 1: I want to know anybody actually isamine the originals rather 652 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: than copies, because I hear a lot about indentation and 653 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: pressure on the paper that you can't pick up from 654 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: copies but you can from originals. Where's the originals who 655 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: examined it? What about it? Astrick? I don't know who 656 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: has the original? Well, Nancy less part of them at 657 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: the real world. She gave his guns lay the original. Well, 658 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you this much. If the originals and 659 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: the copies under Anne McQueen's desk disappeared, God only knows 660 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,240 Speaker 1: where this will really is, because in court you would 661 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,919 Speaker 1: probably need you know. That's the highest and best, which 662 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: means the original We wait as just as unfalls Nancy 663 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: Grace crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,