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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Senator Marco Rubio is no longer

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Speaker 1: the us AR. Covis, Oh, well, that's good to know.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. Think

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Speaker 1: like an economist. Justin Wolfers joins us to talk about

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Speaker 1: the increasingly worrying state of the United States economy. Then

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Speaker 1: we'll talk to The Miami Herald's own Julie K. Brown

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Speaker 1: about the Epstein files and all the information that she

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Speaker 1: actually has that she's reported and how that relates to

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Speaker 1: the redacted files. But first the news, So.

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Speaker 2: Mike, last night, in my birth district where I grew up,

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Speaker 2: there was a major, major political upset that no one

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Speaker 2: saw coming, where the AOC and Bernie becked candidate whose

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Speaker 2: name I am not going to be getting to attempt

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Speaker 2: to pronounce.

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Speaker 1: Soon to be Congress home in Masia.

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Speaker 2: She pulled out a victory in this district. And what

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Speaker 2: many people are analyzing this as is that she seemed

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Speaker 2: to be the one that was saying I'm going to

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Speaker 2: fight hardest, and everybody else seemed a little bit more

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Speaker 2: on the cave side, and this is the thing we've

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Speaker 2: talked about a lot on this podcast. I'm curious what

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Speaker 2: you think of what many are calling it the liberal

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Speaker 2: tea Party.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so I want to pause because this is actually

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Speaker 1: a primary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a DEM primary.

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Speaker 1: It's a special primary. They're going against a Republican. It's

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Speaker 1: for New Jersey's eleventh congressional district that originally belonged to

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Speaker 1: Mike Chow who is now the governor of New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: Now I want to talk about this district because it's

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Speaker 1: a D plus five and Milanowski was the congressman who

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Speaker 1: had had this yea before. Anyway, the point of this

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Speaker 1: story is that the more lefty candidate one now she

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Speaker 1: will run in the special, which I assume is probably

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Speaker 1: pretty soon against the Republican who's called Joe Hathaway. The

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Speaker 1: good news for every one is that it is yet

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Speaker 1: another time where APAC has gotten involved in a congressional race.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because Milanowski was endorsed by Andy Kim.

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Speaker 1: He had been in Congress. Now, I'm not super familiar

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Speaker 1: with the machinations of this primary race, but it's just

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Speaker 1: interesting to see that APAC went in there and had

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Speaker 1: a result that was not what they had hoped for,

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Speaker 1: and have elevated someone who's probably less excited about giving money.

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Speaker 2: It is way less, we could say, probably definitely.

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Speaker 1: Is right exactly, And so that is how we find

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Speaker 1: ourselves here. And you know, that's what's going on. So

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Speaker 1: a special election for that seat coming up soon.

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Speaker 2: So in other news, many people are getting very worried

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Speaker 2: about Donald Trump's rhetoric about what he's going to do

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Speaker 2: in the big terms, specifically the rhetoric that's happening surrounding

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Speaker 2: the White House where they are talking about that they

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Speaker 2: can't guarantee an ICE agent won't be around polling locations,

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Speaker 2: and in response, many Democrats are talking about grinding the

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Speaker 2: country and the economy to a halt and doing a

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Speaker 2: national strike if Trump messes with the midterms. Okay, so

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Speaker 2: that is too late. Here's what needs to happen. We

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Speaker 2: need to be on this right now. Donald Trump cannot

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Speaker 2: mess with the midterms. He wants to mess with the midterms.

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Speaker 2: He wants to pass the Save Act, he wants to

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Speaker 2: have ICE agents near polling locations. What needs to happen

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Speaker 2: is none of this. And I think the good news

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Speaker 2: is that there are enough people who believe in American

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Speaker 2: democracy in this country. You know, it's a mistake to

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Speaker 2: believe that Donald Trump is operating from a place of strength,

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Speaker 2: because he's not.

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Speaker 1: He's operating from a place of weakness. And I think

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Speaker 1: that he is doing these things threatening ice, trying to

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Speaker 1: pass the Save Act, desperately trying to do anything he

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Speaker 1: can because he knows that the stuff he has done

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Speaker 1: Trump two point zero is wildly unpopular. People don't like

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Speaker 1: citizens getting murdered in their cars. They don't like this

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Speaker 1: militia wandering around the streets without accountability. They don't like it.

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Speaker 1: That's not how we've lived for a long time. And

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has run a foul, inadvertently, run a foul

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Speaker 1: of all sorts of stuff. He's run a foul of

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Speaker 1: people who our gun rights activists. I mean, this guy

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Speaker 1: is so on the flip side. We're just in a

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Speaker 1: complete disaster scenario. So that is why I say to

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Speaker 1: you it is absolutely way, way, way way too late

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Speaker 1: when the midterms happen. We need protections now, and our

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Speaker 1: governors can do that. States can pass laws, you know,

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Speaker 1: Illinois is a great example. States can pass laws making

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Speaker 1: rules against ice, making rules against them getting near polling

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Speaker 1: locations or getting near anywhere that it's not appropriate for

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Speaker 1: them to be. So I think it's too late when

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Speaker 1: we're at the midterms. I think we need to be

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Speaker 1: there immediately, you know. I don't think that it makes

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Speaker 1: any sense for us to be like if he messaged

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Speaker 1: with the midterms, anything Donald Trump is going to do

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Speaker 1: that's bad. He's going to do. Like if we've learned

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Speaker 1: anything from Trump one point zero racist stuff, just whatever

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Speaker 1: he can do, he will do. You should assume he

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Speaker 1: will do it, and you should be ready with every

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Speaker 1: possible contingency plan.

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Speaker 2: Now one might say, if you give him enough rope,

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Speaker 2: he'll take all of it and probably to make it

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Speaker 2: into a deuce.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for you, not to himself. I mean, like that's

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Speaker 1: and really for democracy. So I think by the time

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Speaker 1: the midterms happen, it's too late. We need to be

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Speaker 1: prepared now for what this guy's going to do.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of there is some talk that Republicans are really

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Speaker 2: going to make a hard push for this Save Act.

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Speaker 2: I think people should be really calling their congress people,

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Speaker 2: especially if they're congress person is a Republican. For those

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Speaker 2: of you who do not think this does anything. I

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Speaker 2: am married to someone who takes those calls all day.

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Speaker 2: They really do go through, and they scare politicians.

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Speaker 1: No, the best thing you can do is absolutely call politicians.

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Speaker 1: Call your politicians, and also you know, call your governor

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Speaker 1: if you I mean, governors have power to prevent ice

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Speaker 1: from being near polling situations. They can pass local bills

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Speaker 1: and so for sure, for sure that should absolutely happen.

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Speaker 1: So call call. That is your power is to get

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Speaker 1: people activated, is to get them scared, Like these people

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Speaker 1: work for you and you can get them scared. I

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Speaker 1: mean that is really that's how.

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Speaker 2: It should be agreed. So Maya, because it's twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 2: we have to discuss something very very stupid that I

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Speaker 2: wish we didn't have to discuss, which is that Trump

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Speaker 2: retweeted AI cartoons of the Obamas as monkeys, and even

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Speaker 2: one Senator, Tim Scott spoke up about this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because there have actually been a bunch

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Speaker 1: of Republican senators who've spoke up about this. Now, this

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Speaker 1: is not because they're brave. This is also not because

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Speaker 1: they're good people. This is because they see how unpopular

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Speaker 1: Trump is and they're trying to do whatever they can

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Speaker 1: so that that unpopularity doesn't wash up on them. It's

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Speaker 1: worth pausing for a minute and thinking about a guy

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Speaker 1: called Mike Lawler who has weird facial hair and is

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Speaker 1: a member of Congress in New York.

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Speaker 2: Also affinity for blackface, which does come into play here, and.

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Speaker 1: Is also a big Michael Jackson fan, but not necessarily exactly.

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Speaker 1: But Mike Lawler, he's in a seat that Kamala Harris won.

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Speaker 1: He knows that his time in Congress is short. He

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Speaker 1: sees these partisan, these humongous, humongous headwinds going into the midterms,

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Speaker 1: and he knows that there are not enough Ice agents

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Speaker 1: to guarantee my man is keeping his seat. And that

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Speaker 1: is why he actually was all over this tweet because

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, he should leaded. Whoever tweeted this

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Speaker 1: should be fired. Let me tell you a secret. Whoever

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Speaker 1: tweeted this is Trump. Okay. This is a guy who

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Speaker 1: ran for president on the racist lie that Obama was

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Speaker 1: not born in this country. So this is not a mystery.

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Speaker 1: This is the guy's a racist. He's told us he's

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Speaker 1: a racist. He's racisty racist. He said, you know, Mexicans

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Speaker 1: are rapists and some I assume are good people. That's

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Speaker 1: what they like about him. So these Republicans who are

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Speaker 1: disavowing him are doing it merely because they finally found

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Speaker 1: something they think they can do that that makes them

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Speaker 1: seem a little different than Trump. This is just completely

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Speaker 1: and utterly craven and feckless and not true.

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Speaker 2: So we'll be shocked to hear though.

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Speaker 3: Caroline Levitt still defended it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Carolyn Levitt immediately like what did she say? It

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Speaker 1: didn't tweeted or I mean.

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Speaker 2: They said she said no to the your usual. The

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Speaker 2: American people aren't concerned with things like this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, American people don't care. It's funny, you know Botya

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Speaker 1: Batya who.

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Speaker 2: Hungersar God For those unfamiliar with one of the worst

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Speaker 2: pundits ever to do it.

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Speaker 1: Well, she used to be lefty and now she's ready.

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Speaker 2: You mean she used to see an opportunity on the

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Speaker 2: left and then she went for an opportunity on the rioters.

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Speaker 1: She was saying that the American people don't care about

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Speaker 1: Epstein because only the elites care about Epstein. But the

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Speaker 1: joke is the elites want Epstein to go away. The

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Speaker 1: American people care about a sex trafficking ring filled with elites.

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Speaker 1: It just is so deeply misguided. This is about the elites.

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Speaker 1: This is something that people care about, just like people

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Speaker 1: don't want a president who tweets racist stuff, and they

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Speaker 1: don't want to live in the nineteen fifties, and they

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Speaker 1: don't want masks police arresting. You know, we saw today

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Speaker 1: on Morning Joe when we were doing Morning Joe, they

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Speaker 1: you know, they had a video of a guy who

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Speaker 1: was taking his two year old to buy food and

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Speaker 1: he got picked up by ice. Like then they used

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Speaker 1: the two year old to try to get the mom.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we're the richest country in the

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Speaker 1: world and we're living like we're in hunger games. Yep,

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Speaker 1: we have exciting news over at our YouTube channel. The

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Speaker 1: second episode from our Project twenty twenty nine series is

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Speaker 1: out now. It's a reimagining where we examine what went

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Speaker 1: wrong with democrats approach to politics and how we can

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Speaker 1: correct it and deliver changes to help people's lives. The

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Speaker 1: first episode dove into the very sexy topic of campaign

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Speaker 1: finance reform, and our second episode deals with an even

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Speaker 1: sexier topic, antitrust and regulation. We look at how anti

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Speaker 1: trust and regulation can protect American citizens and make America

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Speaker 1: thrive in an era of rampant corruption and predatory crony capitalism.

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Speaker 1: We talk to the smartest names in the field like

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Speaker 1: Lena Khan, el Vero Bedoya, Elizabeth Wilkins, and Doha Mecki.

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Speaker 1: Republicans were prepared for when they got the levers of power.

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Speaker 1: We need democrats to be too, So please head over

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Speaker 1: to YouTube and search Mollie John Fast Project twenty twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: or go to the Fast Politics YouTube channel and find

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Speaker 1: it there and help us spread the word. Justin Wolfers

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Speaker 1: is the host of the Things Like an Economist podcast

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Speaker 1: and the professor at the University of Michigan. Welcome, Welcome,

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Speaker 1: Justin Wolfers.

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Speaker 3: Molly tell you.

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Speaker 1: I'm good. You're here to tell us how's our economy doing.

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Speaker 1: It's doing great, right.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of stuff happened that because

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Speaker 1: there's so many insane things happened. We haven't been talking

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Speaker 1: about the dollar and the markets and fall all the markets,

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Speaker 1: or the FED or even the Bureau of Labor Statistics

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Speaker 1: or the tariffs, and I feel like we should be.

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Speaker 3: You know, That's what I say to people, and then

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Speaker 3: they say, shut up nerd. That's it. That's how dinner

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Speaker 3: parties go for me.

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Speaker 1: Mate, So explain to us what's the opposite of shut

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Speaker 1: up nerd?

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Speaker 3: Open up nerd?

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Speaker 1: Tell us what's going on?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you have to say the opposite of nerd

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Speaker 3: as well. So come on, have had a compliment.

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Speaker 1: Very smart, but that's not really the opposite nerd. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: The point is we had the job support.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was just waiting for a compliment, and you

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Speaker 3: just went straight too hard, you said, and just kept moving.

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Speaker 1: Our favorite economist.

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Speaker 3: Well, well, who's your second favorite, Molly. You don't have

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Speaker 3: a second favorite, do you, Betsy? Okay, fine, all right,

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Speaker 3: I'll Betsy I came first.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, your audience, no, okay, Betsy's tell us what's

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Speaker 1: going on?

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Speaker 3: Okay, We're an interesting moment in lots of different ways. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so what's the big news? Really big news is the

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Speaker 3: President has announced his pick for to be next FED chair.

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Speaker 3: He announced Kevin Walsh, to be known as Handsome Kevin,

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Speaker 3: not to be confused with Happy Kevin. Happy Kevin is

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Speaker 3: the Kevin who smiles a lot out in the front

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Speaker 3: of the White House while lying to you.

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Speaker 1: Ken.

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Speaker 3: That's that was sick a fan. Kevin, I am not

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Speaker 3: mean like you see, we economists we give each other

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Speaker 3: due deference and we're polite and kind, and he just

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Speaker 3: seems so happy, and that's nice. The President, of course,

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Speaker 3: did point out literally, quite explicitly, that one of the

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Speaker 3: most important qualifications to be the most powerful economist in

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Speaker 3: the world, arguably the second most powerful person in the world,

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Speaker 3: aka the FED Chair, was to be handsome. In fact,

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Speaker 3: that's how we got Ja Powell as FED Chair. You

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Speaker 3: may not remember this, but we had a short woman

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Speaker 3: from Brooklyn, Janet Yellen, who had an unbelievably strong record

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Speaker 3: at the FED. She was FED Chair normally you reappoint,

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Speaker 3: and the President didn't think she looked the part, so

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Speaker 3: he chose j Allen instead, who had My god, he's

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Speaker 3: a silver fox, isn't he? That shock of gray hair

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Speaker 3: and the wisdom that Jay brings to the table. And

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Speaker 3: so he chose Jay instead because he was more handsome.

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Speaker 3: It turns out he didn't like j. Powell, but he

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Speaker 3: thought that what he needed was the same job qualification,

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Speaker 3: So when he was interviewing happy Kevin and handsome Kevin,

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Speaker 3: he chose handsome Kevin.

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Speaker 1: Kevin wash Handsome Kevin is also the son in law

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Speaker 1: of Ronald lawd Are, a big Republican donor. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that had nothing to do with it, but it probably

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Speaker 1: did not hurt.

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Speaker 3: And what products does Louder Corporation make? Yeah, skincare. I

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Speaker 3: bet handsome Kevin has great skin. I still don't want

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Speaker 3: to touch it now.

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Speaker 1: All right, So back, we've got to keep you on track. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: handsome Kevin. It's handsome Kevin. He's a hawk, explained, is right?

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Speaker 3: Wonderful question. So here's the diving he might be saying,

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Speaker 3: what does it mean that we now have a handsome

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Speaker 3: central banker? So the one simple way to think about

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Speaker 3: economists or monetary economsts people think think about the FED

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Speaker 3: is on a spectrum from hawk to dove. Okay, what

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Speaker 3: is a hawk? A hawk is someone who is always

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Speaker 3: worried about inflation. And the way you clunk inflation on

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Speaker 3: the head is you raise interest rates. A dove is

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Speaker 3: much more worried about unemployment. The way you attack unemployment

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Speaker 3: as you lower interest rates. So hawks generally tend to

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Speaker 3: want higher interest rates. Doves generally tend to want lower

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Speaker 3: interest rates. Hawks use the word inflation a lot doves

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Speaker 3: use the word unemployment a lot. Kevin wash was a

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Speaker 3: FED governor from two thousand and six, I think to

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Speaker 3: twenty eleven. It sounds like agent history to some people,

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Speaker 3: but that was also included the financial crisis of two

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Speaker 3: thousand and eight. Would a young Molly Jong fast cut

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Speaker 3: her teeth as an aspiring writer? Was it vanity fair

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Speaker 3: writing about the financial crisis?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, God gone some.

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Speaker 3: Penetrating insight in those columns they hold up well, the

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Speaker 3: world went to crap, and then the question is what's

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Speaker 3: the recovery going to look like? H And you might think,

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Speaker 3: if you've got double digit unemployment and no inflation and

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Speaker 3: a totally flattened economy, what you need to do is

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Speaker 3: cut interest rates, and that is in fact what the

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Speaker 3: Fed did. But even with low interest rates, it was

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Speaker 3: a grindingly slow recovery and it took six seven eight

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Speaker 3: years before the unemployment rate got to back to where

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Speaker 3: it was. Careers were destroyed, family incomes were lowered, and

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Speaker 3: now otherwise needed to be. There was far too much

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Speaker 3: misery through that period. I raised that period because throughout

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Speaker 3: that entire period, Kevin Walsh, as a member of the FED,

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Speaker 3: was continually critical and his claim was interest rates were

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Speaker 3: too low, and he woke up every day days where

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Speaker 3: there were millions of people unemployed who didn't need to

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Speaker 3: be unemployed, and said, I'm so worried inflations just around

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Speaker 3: the corner. That's what we need to guard against. And

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Speaker 3: if Handsome Kevin had been running the FED through that period,

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Speaker 3: we would have had much higher unemployment, much more prolonged unemployment,

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Speaker 3: possibly a generation permanently scarred or damaged by an ongoing

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Speaker 3: slow economy. So there's a lot right there which is

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Speaker 3: Handsome Kevin was a hawk. Here's a weird thing, though,

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Speaker 3: since the President started auditioning for the next FED chair,

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Speaker 3: he's all of a sudden decided that he thinks low

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Speaker 3: interest rates are a really good idea. So the guy

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Speaker 3: hated low interest rates when in unemployment was ten percent

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Speaker 3: today thinks they're fantastic. So it's unemployment today a little

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Speaker 3: bit below four and a half percent.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you would it would make sense that you

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Speaker 1: would want to have lower interest rates when unemployment is higher, and.

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Speaker 3: No concern with the lives of ordinary working people who

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Speaker 3: are thrown out of work during what, until COVID had

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Speaker 3: been the deepest recession of our lives. So what's happened? Boy?

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Speaker 3: I think nobody knows, right, So okay. One possibility is

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Speaker 3: the president who very explicitly wants a dove. He wants

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Speaker 3: someone dovey in the dove. I don't know what can

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Speaker 3: be doveed in the dove, but a dove dove all.

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Speaker 3: He does want a sick a fan too, But he

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Speaker 3: wants low interest rates. He has put in place the

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Speaker 3: only person who showed during the recovery from the last

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Speaker 3: Great Recession that he hated low interest rates. So what's

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Speaker 3: going on? One possibility, maybe Handsome Kevin just lied to

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Speaker 3: the president to get the job, and once he gets

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Speaker 3: in there, we'll get hawkish handsome Kevin who is going

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Speaker 3: to raise interest rates and slow the economy sharply one possibility.

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Speaker 3: Another possibility is that he means it that all he

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Speaker 3: wants is the job that, as Paul Krugman has said,

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Speaker 3: a political animal, that when Democrats are in power he

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Speaker 3: wants high interest rates, and when Republicans are in power,

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Speaker 3: he wants low interest rates. One thing's for sure, he's

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Speaker 3: never gone back and said my judgment was wrong six

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Speaker 3: years in a row. There's no question that it was

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Speaker 3: and I think one should probably learn from that. And

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Speaker 3: then there is this deep question that I normally wouldn't ask. Normally,

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Speaker 3: i'd say, well, you've got your track record, turns out

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Speaker 3: it wasn't very good. But what deal did you make

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Speaker 3: with the president? I normally wouldn't ask that because presidents

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Speaker 3: don't normally ask the FED chair to make a deal

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Speaker 3: with them. Presidents normally don't intervene. Presidents are not normally transactional.

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Speaker 3: But somehow a super hawk ended up being picked by

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Speaker 3: a guy who wants a dove, and that raises many, many,

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Speaker 3: many questions.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about Donald Trump's economy

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Speaker 1: right now, the dollar. Where we are with the dollar

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Speaker 1: and the tariffs and.

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Speaker 3: All of the things. Are all the things, okay, So

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Speaker 3: let's start with the dollar. The dollar fell modestly, modestly

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Speaker 3: sharply over the past few days. One word I would

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Speaker 3: recommend your audience never use is the word strong or weak.

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Speaker 3: Way is that because those are terms that naturally, particularly

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Speaker 3: for those of are suffering testosterone poisoning, activate how our emotions.

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Speaker 3: So some people say, now we have a week dollar,

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Speaker 3: how does the president feel about that? It's just a

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Speaker 3: price it's the price of US dollars and another currency,

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Speaker 3: or the price for another currency in US dollars, and

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Speaker 3: that price is lower. What does that do well? It

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Speaker 3: does two things, one good, one less good. The good

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Speaker 3: thing is it makes American goods cheaper for folks who

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Speaker 3: are abroad. If what you wanted was to sell more

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Speaker 3: stuff from American factories, this actually.

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Speaker 1: Helps, right.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, it makes foreign stuff more expensive for Americans. And

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Speaker 3: if one felt one were in the middle of an

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Speaker 3: affordability crisis, might thing that raising the price of foreign

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Speaker 3: goods is a bad idea. And then there's a deeper question,

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Speaker 3: which is what does this mean. So if this were

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Speaker 3: just caused by differences in inflation or some other thing,

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Speaker 3: not a big deal. If this is, folks, the dollar

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Speaker 3: is down because people stopped believing in the American economy.

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Speaker 3: People were no longer willing to invest in America, which

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Speaker 3: case they wouldn't need to buy US dollars. And that's

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Speaker 3: the reason that would be. It was a damaging trend

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Speaker 3: caused the dollar to fall, and that in itself would

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Speaker 3: be worth worrying about. Now, the fact that the dollar

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Speaker 3: is at a lower price right now is not in

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Speaker 3: and of itself a bad thing, but it does raise

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Speaker 3: the question why is it? And to preface, I don't

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Speaker 3: know the answer, but it does raise questions.

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Speaker 1: Do you think this is a bit of that or now.

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Speaker 3: I think the dollar is so freaking expensive that the

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Speaker 3: best sorry, so freaking complicated, The best answer if the

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Speaker 3: audience the honest one is I don't have a great answer,

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Speaker 3: but I do worry that the rest of the world

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Speaker 3: is losing its patience with the United States.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's a pretty good explanation. I mean, it's certainly

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Speaker 1: the worry that a lot of us have because we

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Speaker 1: did try to go to war over Greenland.

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Speaker 3: So I think it wive a marvelous point, which is,

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Speaker 3: on any given day, you and I sit down and

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Speaker 3: we'll talk about whatever the story dajour is, and then

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Speaker 3: just remembering literally just a couple of weeks ago, we

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Speaker 3: were talking about taking over Greenland and the end of

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Speaker 3: the post war consensus and the reordering of defense ties.

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Speaker 3: It's just extraordinary and the idea that that's not the

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Speaker 3: most important economic story of our time, that we have

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Speaker 3: a president who appears to want the world to think

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Speaker 3: that maybe he'll go to war, maybe he won't, that

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Speaker 3: he doesn't regard past US deals as binding him that

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Speaker 3: is willing to play the aggressor. It's these are you

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Speaker 3: don't need me to tell you this money. These are

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Speaker 3: interesting times.

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Speaker 1: Not that interesting.

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Speaker 3: Do you want to hear a good yess story?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes I do.

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Speaker 3: I want to always been like you know, it's I

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Speaker 3: talked too much about bad news, so good news. So

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Speaker 3: on Friday last week, President Trump announced the new Commissioner

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Speaker 3: of the Bureau of Labor Statistics fellow by the name

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Speaker 3: of Brett Matsimoto. Now here's something that shouldn't be news,

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Speaker 3: but it is. He's an extraordinarily qualified non partisan fellow.

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Speaker 3: What yeah, Now, I'm just.

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Speaker 1: Going to get fired like the person before him.

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Speaker 3: Right, So I was going to say, let's give a

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Speaker 3: little bit of context to see why this is a

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Speaker 3: good news story. So, because I think you and I

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Speaker 3: talked about earlier rounds of this, you can think about

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Speaker 3: this as being a play in three acts. The first

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Speaker 3: act is the previous commissioner, who like, this was a

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Speaker 3: job no one I'd ever heard of before. It's it's

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Speaker 3: really I mean, in my world, we've heard of it.

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Speaker 3: We love this job in my world, but in the

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Speaker 3: real world, no one cares. The previous commissioner, Erica mcannifer,

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Speaker 3: was fired by the president because she reported truthfully the

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Speaker 3: truth about how the job market was doing. Sometimes we say,

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Speaker 3: don't shoot the messenger, and that's kind of meant to

436
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: be a metaphor for something. But you like, hands over

437
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 3: the numbers and he's like, you're fired. Not a lot

438
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 3: of metaphor going on there, and you know that shocked everyone.

439
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: This is not what first world countries are meant to do.

440
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 3: Then it got worse. The President got to a point,

441
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 3: gets to a point a replacement, and so he in

442
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 3: fact went to nominate a candidate who was so poorly

443
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 3: qualified that a blue people's minds even in this administration.

444
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 3: Fellow by the name of E. J. Antony Fellow, who

445
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: has exactly one piece of research with exactly one citation,

446
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 3: and that was by a former friend of his, A

447
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: fellow who is being tapped to lead the Bureau of

448
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: Labor Statistics. He'd never run a bureau, he doesn't work

449
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 3: on labor, and he doesn't understand statistics.

450
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: That sounds like a Trump nominee, a.

451
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 3: Guy who wouldn't have gotten an entry level job there.

452
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 3: They wanted him to run the whole organization right now.

453
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 3: It actually turns out that there is a step too

454
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 3: far for this Senate, and the Senate said, no, we

455
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 3: cannot do this. The fact that it turns out this

456
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 3: guy actually has a much better track record at turning

457
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 3: up to January sixth insurrections than knowing anything about statistics

458
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: might have been too much. So the Senate said, we're

459
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 3: not going to let you go with this guy. And

460
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 3: so then last Friday, so then like, this is a

461
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 3: terrible story so far. This is someone who's trying to

462
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 3: destroy our statistical infrastructure, who's trying to appoint people who

463
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: are not qualified, who's undermining.

464
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: Our alternative facts alternately all.

465
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: Because of facts. And then last Friday and this, I

466
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: just it's so beautiful. The President announced he was appointing

467
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: Brett mat Tomoto. You may not know Brett, but Brett

468
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: was a career Bureau of Labor Statistics simploye. It's spent

469
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 3: fifteen years there as a pH d economist. He's written

470
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: papers on the most splendidly nerdy things in the world,

471
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 3: like how do we get health insurance? How do we

472
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: account for that in measuring the cost of living? Which

473
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 3: is stuff the bls is we to do. So we've

474
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: gone from a world in which we had a whole

475
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 3: highly qualified, non partisan head to having a highly qualified

476
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 3: non partisan head and I am so happy.

477
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: And how did this happen?

478
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: I think that's a big question, and I actually think

479
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 3: it's a very deep question. So first of all, I

480
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 3: do want to point out that in between, the President

481
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: caused a lot of damage, pointless damage. He went from

482
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: one nerd to another nerd, and it's going to be

483
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 3: run well in between, but he's done everything he can

484
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: to undermine the credibility of government statistics. In between, How

485
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 3: did this happen? I don't know. So one thing. It

486
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: could be the President just got bored. I might be

487
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 3: the only person in the world who likes talking about

488
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: the Bureau of Labor statistics. I have been to dinner

489
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 3: parties and I cannot get people to buy it. Could

490
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 3: be the Senate actually insisted this.

491
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: Actually dovetails was another question I had, which is Kevin

492
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: wash handsome kid has to go through a Senate confirmation.

493
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: Right.

494
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: The Senate is not delighted with Trump right now, but

495
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: he needs fifty votes to pass, right, so talk us through,

496
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean, and we already heard Tom Te.

497
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 3: He also has to get out of committee, and that's

498
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: where tell Us is really important. So yeah, right, so

499
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 3: the President gets nominated guy, the Senate hats to decide

500
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 3: what to do with it. Yeah. I said a few

501
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: critical things about Warsh earlier. Let me come back and

502
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: actually say a few positives. So you can think about

503
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: the potential nominees as being out of two hats. One

504
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: hat is the sort of folks who really take economics

505
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 3: of monetary policy seriously and clowns, cranks and charlottons. In

506
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: the past, we would never even talk about that second

507
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: hat because it would never be considered possible.

508
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: But E.

509
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: J an Tony, for instance, is from the clown's, charlaton's

510
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: and crank's bucket. The President the past has tried to

511
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: appoint people to the FED who were from that bucket,

512
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 3: Judy Shelton, who's a gold bug, for instance. So the

513
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: good news about Handsome Kevin is he's from the serious bucket,

514
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 3: and that might be enough to get him through. Having

515
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 3: said that he's from the serious bucket. But if you

516
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: aligned all the serious people and said how many have

517
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: you got every single call wrong? Between two thousand and

518
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 3: six and twenty eleven. Handsome Kevin got more of those

519
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: things wrong than anyone else. How many people have had

520
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: a public about face with no explanation. Only Handsome Kevin.

521
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: Although smiling Kevin does that. Happy Kevin does that too.

522
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: So there are really important questions to be asked. But

523
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 3: at least he's from that. He's from the right side

524
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 3: of things. The other thing you've seen is okay. So

525
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 3: that's there. Tom tell Us, remember a few weeks ago

526
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: the President tried to jail or threatened to jail j Powell, which.

527
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: Outraged because of the renovation. He was mad about a

528
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: renovation that went over budget, and that is much.

529
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: Turns out that's not what it was about.

530
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: But that's what he said. It was about.

531
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: Yes, girl, I don't do what he said. So Tom

532
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: Tellis said, you know what, that's not how you run

533
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: a country. When Congress tells you got to do something

534
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: and he does it, you don't put him in jail.

535
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: So Tom Tillis then said, you have to get rid

536
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 3: of these criminal charges or I'm not going to get

537
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: this get Handsome Kevin through committee. And so that right

538
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: there is the first thing. And then the second thing

539
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: is this question that I raised earlier, which is what

540
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: promises is handsome Kevin made to get the job, because

541
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,719
Speaker 3: if he's effectively made promises that would give up the

542
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 3: fed's independence that Congress granted to it, you could imagine

543
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: the Senate saying no. So I think my guess is

544
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: the fact that he comes from the heart of people

545
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: who are at least qualified on paper probably means he's

546
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: going to be okay. But I think everyone should be

547
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: asking very very hard questions. What did we learn from

548
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: all the previous mistakes, what explains the current about face,

549
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: what was said in silent in quiet smoke filled rooms.

550
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: And I think whether Democrats can get behind him should

551
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 3: I'm not making a prediction, but should depend on the

552
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: quality of those answers, Hi.

553
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: Justin Wolfers, will you.

554
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: Come back only if you invite me?

555
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: Molly Julie K. Brown is an investigative journalist for the

556
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: Miami Herald and the author of Perversion of Justice, The

557
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein Story. Welcome Julie K. Brown, Hi, thank you.

558
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: I was saying before we started recording that why I

559
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you was because, you know, we

560
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: had these huge dump of redacted files, a lot of

561
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: redactive files, a lot of unredactive files, a lot of

562
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: Epstein's stuff, likely Moore. But in order to understand this story,

563
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: we have to know that none of us would know

564
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: any of this because it wasn't the FBI that got

565
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: this story out into the public. It was you. And

566
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: I would love you to talk about how you got

567
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: to these victims and how you got their stories out

568
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: there or how you started, because it really is you

569
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: are responsible for I mean, the government has been appalling

570
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: in the way five administration to mishandle this, but I'd

571
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: love you to talk about how you were the impetus

572
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: for all of this.

573
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't break this story. A lot of people

574
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: want to say I break it. I didn't break it.

575
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 4: There were a lot of really good journalists that covered

576
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 4: this story when it happened back in two thousand and five,

577
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 4: six seven, but it sort of died down, and I

578
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 4: always had been you know, I knew about it, and

579
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 4: everything that I had read I felt didn't explain to

580
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 4: me how this man got away with such a heinous crime.

581
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 4: Nothing that I read answered that question. So, you know,

582
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 4: you fast forward until twenty sixteen seventeen. Trump ends up

583
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 4: nominating Alexander Costa, who was the US attorney in Miami

584
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: who approved this deal. They nominated him for Labor Secretary. Now,

585
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 4: remember the Labor Department has oversight of human trafficking of

586
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 4: all things, so they're they're essentially nominating a guy who

587
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 4: let one of the most prolific sex predators in history

588
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: off the hook. So I thought, you know, it's been

589
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 4: a long time. I wonder what all these girls now women.

590
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: Of course, because it's been you know, like you know,

591
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 4: almost a decade, I wonder what they think about this

592
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 4: man now heading up this agency that has oversight over

593
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 4: you know, human and sex trafficking essentially. So I thought

594
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 4: I would do a reaction piece tied around his Acosta's

595
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 4: confirmation process. And I was even more convinced when I

596
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 4: realized that the senators who were supposed to be questioning

597
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 4: him about this, you one would think it was probably

598
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 4: the biggest case of his career. Instead, they barely asked

599
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 4: him many questions during the information process about this case.

600
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 4: So I thought, like I said, I thought it would

601
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 4: be more of a reaction piece.

602
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: But I just I had to find the women.

603
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 4: They were all their names were they were minors, so

604
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 4: all their names were redacted from all the files. So

605
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 4: that was a long longer process than I thought it

606
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 4: was to track them down. And in order to track

607
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 4: someone down, you see things that happen in their lives.

608
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 4: You see, for example, that they have a criminal record,

609
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 4: or you see that you know on Facebook, that one

610
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 4: of their sisters died, or their boyfriends died, or they were,

611
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 4: you know, a victim of domestic abuse. And I started

612
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 4: to see this pattern that almost all these women in

613
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 4: the years after this happened, the trajectory of their lives

614
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 4: were never the same. And I'm almost getting chills remembering

615
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 4: it because I thought, I thought, this is just, you know,

616
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 4: this is unbelievable that you know that these women, their

617
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 4: whole lives were destroyed by him, and I didn't feel

618
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 4: that story had really ever been told. And so of

619
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 4: course the key to doing that story was to get

620
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 4: them to talk to me, you know, So you know,

621
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 4: it was a process. It was quite a long process

622
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 4: to try to you know, I only was able to

623
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 4: find four that were willing to go on the record.

624
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 4: And at the time I thought that I had, you know,

625
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 4: that it wasn't going to be good enough, you know,

626
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 4: because I imagine since there were so many.

627
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: I found sixty of them, and I imagine.

628
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: Doing this huge story about you know, at least a

629
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 4: dozen or two dozen, but I only was able to

630
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 4: get four.

631
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: And in hindsight, it can tell you that that was

632
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: just right.

633
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 4: It was just right because I was able to really

634
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 4: understand what had happened and really describe it in a

635
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 4: way that obviously really touched a lot of people because

636
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 4: the story really I mean, the prosecutors in New York,

637
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 4: you know, they literally days after my story ran the

638
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 4: corruption team the Southern District of New York took my

639
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 4: story to the US Attorney in New York, Jeffrey Berman,

640
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 4: and said, did you see this? We've got to do something.

641
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 4: So it was just the right amount of They were

642
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 4: so powerful. One of them was Virginia Giffrey, who we

643
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 4: all know passed away earlier this year. So it just

644
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 4: was a new way of looking at this story that

645
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 4: really hadn't been done before.

646
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: You had four. And while this was going on, Jeffrey

647
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: Epstein was back out there.

648
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 4: He was, And what I'm seeing right now, I just

649
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 4: did actually a sub stock about this today. There's stuff

650
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 4: from twenty eighteen. My series appeared in November of twenty eighteen,

651
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 4: and there are emails in there where he is trying

652
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 4: to find schools for a girl that's under the age

653
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 4: of seventeen, like a prep school. There are there's all

654
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 4: kinds of evidence that he was doing this right up

655
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 4: into the end. So he was able after getting this

656
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 4: a lenient plea deal that they let him off the hook.

657
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 4: He I mean, God knows how many other girls and

658
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 4: young women that he preyed upon and sexually abused.

659
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: One of the things I'm struck by when I went

660
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: to the press conference in DC with some of the survivors,

661
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: there were maybe fifteen. There are likely a boards of

662
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: a thousand victims. Is that right? Do you think that's

663
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: what the Justice Department says?

664
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 4: And quite frankly, at this point on, I'll trust the

665
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 4: Justice departments. So I don't know if that's it could

666
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 4: be more because I just don't trust that they really,

667
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 4: ever thoroughly investigated this crime.

668
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: So say why you don't trust them.

669
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 4: From the very beginning they dropped this ball. And you

670
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 4: know the other thing that we're seeing in these files,

671
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 4: there is a lot in these files. I know that,

672
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 4: you know, I don't sense that there's that people are

673
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 4: understanding the depth of this crime because these files are

674
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 4: so messed up and the way they get them ount

675
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 4: and they're redacted.

676
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: But because I know this story so well, I can

677
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: recognize things that other people don't. That's what I'm hoping

678
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: you could do, you know, one of the things.

679
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 4: And we have a lot of stories lined up at

680
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 4: the Miami Herald doing this because I'm able to see

681
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 4: these things. But one of the things we could clearly

682
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 4: see is the influence and the pressure that he put

683
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 4: on law enforcement officials, you know, and the prosecutors and

684
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 4: anybody that tried to become an obstacle to his sex

685
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 4: trafficking and money laundering empire. It was a sex trafficking

686
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 4: and money laundering empire, so town World's fine empire, and

687
00:37:55,080 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 4: so anybody that was an obstacle he was pretty true.

688
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 4: He just hired them, you know, he tried to bring

689
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 4: them to his side of the table in one way

690
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 4: or another. If he couldn't hire them, he would God knows.

691
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 4: I mean, we don't really know the extent of the

692
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 4: influence that he had, and that pattern just continued I

693
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 4: think throughout you know, his his life. Really that he

694
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 4: wanted to manipulate all the people that he thought were

695
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 4: going to pose, you know, an obstacle to what he

696
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 4: wanted to do and how much money he wanted to make.

697
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 4: He just kind of he kind of you know, they say,

698
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 4: what is it to keep your friends closing and keep

699
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 4: your enemies even closer? And he was very sharp in

700
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 4: how he manipulated people that way. And we're seeing that

701
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 4: in these files, these emails that are going to some

702
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 4: of the very first prosecutors in pomp Beach County who

703
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 4: that was the first you know, what do you call

704
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 4: the first failure was in Palm Beach County with its

705
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 4: state attorney there, who was going to let him completely

706
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 4: off the hook for this crime. And we see now

707
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 4: that there were emails back and forth between Epstein or

708
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 4: his lawyers and these prosecutors.

709
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: This is like a non partisan failure, Like there's some

710
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: of these are Democrats, some of them are Republicans. Men

711
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: in this are Democrats, are Republicans. It's nonpartisan. But I

712
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: think the biggest crime here is not believing women, because

713
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: it seems like women keep trying to come forward throughout

714
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: the story.

715
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 4: And let me tell you another part of this, not

716
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 4: only not believing the victims, but not believing the female prosecutor,

717
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 4: federal prosecutor who wanted to take this case on and

718
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 4: wanted to indict him and wanted to put him in

719
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 4: prison forever.

720
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 1: All her superiors were men.

721
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 4: And you know this has been reported when they finally

722
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 4: did a Justice Department probe after my series, the Office

723
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 4: of Professional Responsibility did it. Uh, There are emails that

724
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 4: show that they kept telling her basically, sit down, shut up,

725
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 4: We're going to make a deal with this guy, whether

726
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: you like it or not.

727
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: And and it was all men. It did that, it

728
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: was clear.

729
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 4: And she actually issued a statement after this report came

730
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 4: out saying that it was very it was all, you know,

731
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 4: biased because these men were very you knowsto just treated

732
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 4: her like she was, you know, crazy for wanting to

733
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 4: prosecute him.

734
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: And then also Tina Brown, another woman who was like,

735
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: I'm not going right right a pedophib Right, didn't she say,

736
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pedifiled? What do you think?

737
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 3: You know?

738
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

739
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 4: Right?

740
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: So tell us what else you see in the files

741
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: that that you think is that has sort of confirmed

742
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: thoughts or that you had suspicions about that you because

743
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: the money laundering is new.

744
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 4: Right, Well, I've always said, people ask me the question

745
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 4: all the time, how did Jeffrey Epstein get make his money?

746
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 4: And I've always said from the very beginning, I think

747
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 4: he was a super, super duper money launder. I mean, really,

748
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 4: we know his job was to try to find ways,

749
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 4: you know, with Leon Black, you know, the former CEO

750
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 4: of Apollo Capital. He I think Leon Black paid him

751
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 4: like one hundred and sixty million dollars for tax advice,

752
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 4: you know, and he was also helping him with you know,

753
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 4: some of his art deals, you know, so using buying

754
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 4: art as a way to essentially get out of paying taxes.

755
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 4: So you know, I'm sure it's on a much larger

756
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 4: scale that we don't even know the extent of it

757
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 4: this time, but we do know that that was, you know,

758
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 4: one of the things that he was doing, you know,

759
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 4: to earn you know a lot of money.

760
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: There are these reactions, and I want you to talk

761
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: about the reactions because I read this piece in the

762
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: Times and I couldn't believe it about how they had

763
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: not redacted child pornography and put what they were abducted right,

764
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it.

765
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: So I wrote to the journalist who wrote it and said,

766
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: this cannot possibly be true, and he said, yes, we

767
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 1: had to tell the Justice Department right that there were

768
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: unredacted photos of what could be children online. That is

769
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: shocking to me, and it makes me wonder, do you

770
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: think they didn't go through the file? I mean, what

771
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: do you think happened? Because they've had this information for

772
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: years and years and years.

773
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 4: I think that they were so focused on trying to

774
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 4: protect the elites or the famous people or you know

775
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 4: those people, that they focused too much on that and

776
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 4: they didn't focus enough on what really mattered. You know,

777
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 4: here it is. They really only had one job, according

778
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 4: to this new law that was passed, was to remove

779
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 4: the name of these victims, make sure that they were protected.

780
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: They weren't supposed to remove names of prosecutors, which they

781
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 4: did of you know, these other people who he You know,

782
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 4: there's emails where you have there's one that's going around

783
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 4: the internet that someone's saying, you know, I really had

784
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 4: a good time and something like it's something about the.

785
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: Littlest one is naughty.

786
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, the little girl, something about the little girl, you know,

787
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 4: and they.

788
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: Reject the name.

789
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, So they're protecting these potential perpetrators. Uh, they're protecting them,

790
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 4: but they're not protecting the victims, which is I feel

791
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 4: like it's been this story behind this story here since

792
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 4: the very beginning, because look, the reason why they gave

793
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 4: them the deal to begin with is I'm sure that

794
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 4: they didn't want, you know, all these other names to

795
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 4: come out, you know, from the very beginning.

796
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that, because you'll remember Pam Bondi

797
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 1: said she had a list, the client list, on her desk,

798
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: and then she gave these binders to conservative influencers. They

799
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: got very excited and then all of a sudden nothing.

800
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: So what do you think was happening there? Do you

801
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: think there really is a client list? I mean, there

802
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: certainly was a list of ten men or ten sort

803
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: of people they thought about prosecuting. Can you talk about that?

804
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've always said that Epstin you didn't keep like

805
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 4: a piece of paper with a list or even a

806
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 4: digital footprint. I think he had a list in his head,

807
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 4: but I don't think he ever had a real list.

808
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 4: But I always also said that the FBI had to

809
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 4: be nuts if they didn't compile some kind of a

810
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 4: list of suspects, especially after they arrested Epstein the first,

811
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 4: I mean the second time, after my series, they put

812
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 4: out a whole big call hotline for people to call

813
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 4: with tips, and we now see the result of those

814
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 4: tips in some of these files, and they did get

815
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 4: a lot of tips, and we're also seeing some of

816
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 4: these tips were very detailed. And you know, back to

817
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 4: the reactions, you know, when they have some of these

818
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 4: reports that are in there about you know, this woman

819
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 4: such or girls that she was underage and uh, you

820
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 4: know she names they the names are in there, Leon Black,

821
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 4: just Staley, uh again and of course they're all saying,

822
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 4: you know that it's untrue and it can't be proven,

823
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 4: but their names are in there. Okay, there wasn't a name,

824
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 4: there were names compiled. What they redact, and this is

825
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 4: really important. They redact anything that shows what they did

826
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 4: to address those allegations. It's all redacted and why they

827
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 4: chose to take their word for it that they were

828
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 4: all not credible, that these ways think about this, all

829
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 4: these women lied or they didn't have proof, But they

830
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 4: don't show us the forms that the reports that they

831
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 4: had to fill out, saying I interviewed so and so,

832
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 4: which you redact the person's name, and here is what

833
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 4: she said. And it was a second hand account or whatever.

834
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: It was that she said.

835
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 4: There's huge swaths of pages that showed they completely blacked out.

836
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: I don't even know what it is.

837
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 4: We don't know if they ever really took these allegations. Yes,

838
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 4: some of them sound crazy, but you know, I know

839
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 4: as a journalist, even the crazy you have to listen to,

840
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 4: even the crazy times, you have to pay attention. This

841
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 4: is such a heinous crime. I don't think you should

842
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 4: discount anything. No matter how crazy it is. That person

843
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 4: still deserves a phone call, you know, and tell me

844
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 4: what you know.

845
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: So it sounds like they reacted potential perpetrators' names by

846
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: a lot of these cases. And then what the potential

847
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: malfeasans that the DOJ might have committed or the prosecutors

848
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: at the state level may have committed. Is that right?

849
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: That's true?

850
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 4: And also the details about what investigation, if any, they

851
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 4: conducted on all the tips, all the victims that came forward,

852
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 4: Like what did they do with this tip? Did they

853
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 4: interview the woman? What did they do?

854
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: We don't know.

855
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 4: They're asking us when we call the Justice Department and

856
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 4: we say, okay, we see this tip from this woman

857
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 4: and she said, ABCD, what did you do?

858
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about that.

859
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 4: So they're asking the public to trust them.

860
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: Right, there's no reason to trust them. And roll Conna,

861
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: who I've talked to before, and Thomas Massey. One of

862
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 1: the things they said was that the DOJ was supposed

863
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: to talk through the reactions and explain them that they

864
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to just make haphazard, willy nilly reactions. But

865
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: that's exactly what they did, right.

866
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 4: Yes, there's things in there or that they've redacted that

867
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 4: are inexplicable. You cannot figure out the trajectory of that

868
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 4: original deal from two thousand and seven. You can't figure

869
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 4: out who was doing what. Even his lawyer's names are redacted. Now,

870
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 4: why did they have to redact you know, Roy Black's

871
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 4: name or Kenneth Star's name. They've redacted the name of

872
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 4: the lawyers, the name of all the prosecutors.

873
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: It's absurd. I can't figure out who's talking to who.

874
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 1: There were other names that are redacted too. I wonder

875
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: there's another thing that somebody saw. I just want you

876
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: to speculate for a minute, because we don't know. But

877
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: it seemed like there were places where the word don't

878
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: was redacted? Did you see that, like maybe someone had

879
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: done a word search for other letters in the word don't.

880
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: I just wonder if you saw any other patterns like

881
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: that in the reaction now.

882
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 4: I didn't see that, although that wasn't really something I

883
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 4: was focused on. Now that you mentioned, and I'll focus

884
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 4: on it a little bit.

885
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you see anything else? I didn't know what

886
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: they're redacting because they're redacting it.

887
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 4: You know, in some case you can figure out what

888
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 4: it is because I know, for example, sometimes they'll be

889
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 4: talking about a certain victim, and I'll know who that

890
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 4: victim is because I've had encounters.

891
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: With that victim. I've spoken to that victim.

892
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 4: Which I would never reveal who that person is, so,

893
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 4: you know, or just some of the prosecutors. I can

894
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 4: tell when Marieville Lafauna was the lead prosecutor, I can

895
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 4: clearly tell when, even though she might be redacted, I

896
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 4: can clearly tell that she wrote something.

897
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 1: Have more victims come forward that you've talked to now

898
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 1: or since he was either well, yeah, there were a lot.

899
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 4: I mean, we have a document that shows how many

900
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 4: tips they got, how many they referred for further investigation,

901
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 4: and you know, there's some kind of a breakdown. We

902
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 4: got you know, three hundred something, and then we referred

903
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 4: you know, forty of them, and then out of that forty,

904
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 4: you know, we did something else with them. But then

905
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 4: that's the end of it. You don't know whatever happened

906
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 4: to them. So there were I think there were. But

907
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 4: here here's what I think happened though, especially within the

908
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 4: past year under Trump, really is I think a lot

909
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 4: of these women are really getting more and more reticent

910
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 4: for obvious reasons to come forward. They don't have any

911
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 4: guaranteed that anybody's going to protect them, you know, anything

912
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 4: that this is intimidation, so that the way that they're

913
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 4: allowing some of these names, these victims' names to be

914
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 4: exposed is almost to them, you know, and to any

915
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 4: I think reasonable thinking person, it's almost an intimidation tactic

916
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 4: so that other women don't come out, you know, and

917
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 4: come forward.

918
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: I've talked to members of Congress who have said that

919
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: there's a huge amount of pornography of these victims, do

920
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: you think and again speculative, I know, because you haven't

921
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: seen them, because none of us have seen them. But

922
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: that some of this was blackmail to the to blackmail

923
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: these guys because they were video cameras everywhere, thousands of

924
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: dollars of I don't.

925
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 4: Know, I don't know, you know, Cash Bettel, the director

926
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 4: of the FBI. One of the things he said when

927
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 4: he announced that they weren't going to pursue anything was

928
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 4: that they found no quote, credible evidence of blackmail. Okay,

929
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 4: it's interesting to me that that he used credible. So

930
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 4: what does that mean? You know, you have all these

931
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 4: videos there, but maybe there's not an email companying it

932
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 4: saying if you don't do this. You know, Emstein was

933
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 4: pretty shrewd. He wouldn't send a video that he had

934
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 4: of somebody and put a memo attached to it saying

935
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 4: they would just send it, you know.

936
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: I mean it's clear you saw that with his emails

937
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: with Elon Mosk right where I said, now you know

938
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: International Assembly is here, yeah, right right.

939
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 4: There's codes words they use. They use words like fun

940
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 4: for sex. I can't think of all the words, but

941
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 4: there's certain words that they used. They didn't say, you know,

942
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 4: I had sex with this girl, thanks a lot. They

943
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 4: were more like, you know, wow, that was really a

944
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 4: great evening. You know, and what fun you know. Yeah,

945
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 4: there were code words they used.

946
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: Julie, I really am I you know, I'm indebted to

947
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: you for what you have done in this story and

948
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: I just am so grateful to get to just pick

949
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: your brain about this. So thank you, thank you, thank

950
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: you and your what's your substat.

951
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 4: Called JKB journalists or the Epstein files.

952
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: And there are also pieces in the Miami Herald.

953
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to be breaking some stories in the

954
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 4: in the coming weeks, working quite a number of things.

955
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 1: Thanks mass, Thank you, Julie, Thank you, Jesse Cannon.

956
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: My junk fast. So you may recall that Trump is

957
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: very mad that the IRS released his taxes. He's going

958
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: to get a ten billion dollar payment to himself, which

959
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: seems really fair. Well, Congress made Treasury Secretary Scott Assent

960
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: answer for this, and I thought it was a pretty

961
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 2: great show. When'd ju see?

962
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: So the Cent was testifying on the hell and Ruben

963
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: Diego asked him, well, I think it was a good question.

964
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: This is a committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs.

965
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: Rubin Diego asked the Cent, who is the acting director?

966
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: He's also the acting director of the IRS. Let's say

967
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: for some reason he actually wins law. To where would

968
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: the ten billion come from, Bassett had trouble getting the

969
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: words out. It would come from that process. Wise, I'm

970
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: not asking your opinion whether it's right or wrong. Diego interjected,

971
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: it would come from treasury, Bissett said. Diego pressed him

972
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: on if those funds would come from the US Treasuries

973
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 1: General which said yes, the Treasury's general account, So taxpayers,

974
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: Diego said and said yes, adding that he was part

975
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: of the forty four thousand taxpayers whose returns were leaked.

976
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: So of those forty four thousand, guess how many got

977
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: ten billion dollars zero? Guess how many got one billion

978
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: dollars zero. Some got some settlement, supposedly Ken Griffin got

979
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: a settlement. But the point here is that what Diego did,

980
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: which I think was smart, was he was able to

981
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: thread the needle from Donald Trump's threat to what that

982
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: would mean for taxpayers. A lot of times Donald Trump

983
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: speaks in ways that are unclear, and he doesn't do

984
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: it because he's a bad communicator. He does it on purpose.

985
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: And so with something like this, you really see that

986
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to sue them for ten billion dollars. It's

987
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 1: part of the game. Even then. The leak took place

988
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: during Trump's first term under a director he appointed. He'd

989
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: have a hard time proving damages in court. Trump's net

990
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: worth has nearly tripled to six point four billions since

991
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: his taxes were disclosed in September twenty twenty. Looks like

992
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: a corrupt president is trying to pay himself billions of dollars.

993
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

994
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best

995
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

996
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

997
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.