1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left SUTs podcast. 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: My guest today is the one and only Todd run 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Gray Todd good dap Here, Hi, Bob, how goes? It? Goes? 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: Pretty well? And then being locked up in this COVID era. 5 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: So you're going on this virtual tour this winter? Can 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about that? Well? I 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: was supposed to be out this year in May and 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: June as part of my regular touring schedule, and then 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: that got moved to July and August. Then I got 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: moved to October November, then I got moved to next February, 11 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: and then when they moved it from February, I said, 12 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: all right, enough enough that would have been by the 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: time I go out on the road, it will be 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: two years since I've done a tour, and that's too 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: long a time for me. If I don't do it 16 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: with some regularity, I start to wonder if I can 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: do it. So I decided that I would uh do 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: this experiment, which is actually something that I've had in 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: mind for a while. The impetus for the idea has 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: to do with um with global climate change and how 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: it's affecting a transportation system, and I had already made 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: some um, pretty major adjustments in the way that I travel. 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: Instead of doing the usual major markets, a couple of 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: minor markets, major market, driving the whole way, we started 25 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: playing multiple nights in major markets and kind of encouraging 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: people from the minor markets to travel, and I would 27 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: travel less. As a matter of fact, we travel maximum 28 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: under that schedule, probably two days a week, but it 29 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: involves flying instead of driving. And I was finding myself, um, 30 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: evermore often on panic mode with my travel agent because 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: a flight got canceled or or fatally delayed or something 32 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: like that. And that would usually be due to an 33 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: airport being shut down because of a weather event. And 34 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: that's when I started to think, Um, this is going 35 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: to happen more often. How, what's the backup? You know, 36 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: how can you deliver a show? Uh if the physical 37 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: world won't allow you to do that? Uh? And that's 38 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: when I first started thinking about it. But I had 39 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: not at the time considered the possibility that the audience 40 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to make it to the show. So 41 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: that's how we wound up with this full virtual tour. 42 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: The fact that nobody can actually come come out and 43 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: so instead of me, um, hitting uh the places that 44 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: I would have played, but maybe presenting it in a 45 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: way that's still resembled a live show. In other words, 46 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: do it in a club or a theater that has 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: video projection. Now the audience can't go to that club 48 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: or that video theater. The whole thing has to be 49 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: home delivered. And so that's what we're doing. We're doing shows, 50 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: each localized to a market that we would have played, 51 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: and uh allowing well pretty much allowing anyone to go 52 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: to any of those shows, but for the markets that 53 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: are locked out because prior agreements, and each show will 54 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: have the flavor of the place that we would have played. Wait. Wait, 55 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: just so I understand. So the shows are geo fenced, 56 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: is what the original publicity say? Are you saying if 57 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: the show is in San Francisco, someone from New York 58 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: can go? Uh? Yes, the geo in sing We had 59 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: the paradigm a little upside down at first. Um we thought, okay, 60 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: geo fencing will involve determining all of the you know, 61 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: the IP addresses that fall within a certain municipality, let's say, 62 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: and then only allow people who had corresponding IP address. 63 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: Is to buy a ticket to those particular markets. As 64 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: it turns out, you know, there are a lot of 65 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: people who might be just on the other line of 66 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: the other side of the fence, and it's a hard fence, 67 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:44,679 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like uh not like a fence 68 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: that you can see through. Put it that way, you 69 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: either get it or you don't get the show. And 70 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: a lot of people who might have driven to a 71 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: show in a particular town suddenly couldn't get to the 72 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: show via the geo fencing. And we realized the only 73 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:04,239 Speaker 1: use of it at this particular point is to protect 74 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: those markets that I've made prior agreements not to play in. 75 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: So uh, you can be in one of those markets 76 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: that I didn't agree to play in, and then pick 77 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: any city that you would like to be in, with 78 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: the caveat that we will be as performers. We will 79 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: be pretending we're in that city. Okay, certainly fans are 80 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: they just want to hear they can go into any 81 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: market and watch the show. In many cases, fans would 82 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: watch multiple shows. Let's go back to something you said earlier. 83 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: You said, well, you don't know if you still can 84 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: do it. Is that emotionally is that physically is that 85 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: musical ability. Well, you know, there is a controversy about 86 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: mask wearing and social distancing and all that, and we're 87 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: kind of on the side of playing its safe. We're 88 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: creating our own bubble when we go um to actually 89 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: do this show, and we fortunately, because we're doing it 90 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: this way, don't have to get into the controversy about 91 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: wearing or not wearing a mask at a certain gig. 92 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: The I think the thing is that in most cities 93 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: they have relatively stricter gathering policies as opposed to rural 94 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: areas that may have much more relaxed gathering policies. So, 95 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: for instance, we were operating on the assumption, because we're 96 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: we'll be doing the shows in Chicago, we're operating on 97 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: the assumption originally that we could have up to people 98 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: live people in an audience, and of course they would 99 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: all have to be masked and isolated and that sort 100 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: of thing or distance not necessarily isolated, but six ft 101 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: apart at least. And then there was a surge and 102 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: that got reduced to like ten people. Uh So we 103 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: don't know actually, by the time we get to doing 104 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: the shows exactly how many live bodies will be allowed 105 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,559 Speaker 1: to have in the space in our performance space. UH. 106 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 1: And that would be the same probably in any major city. 107 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: We would have no idea until you until the day 108 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: of the show exactly how many people would be allowed 109 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: in the venue. So there is that, and then there 110 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: is the fact that we are, uh, we are proactive 111 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: about about continuing to use suppressive strategies while we're still 112 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: in a pandemic, even though it will be a February 113 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: you are in March for us, We're not counting on 114 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: the fact that vaccines would be available to us or 115 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: the major part of the audience. Okay, but earlier you 116 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: said if you don't go out that regularly on tour, 117 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: irrelevant of COVID, you're not sure you can still do it. 118 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: What exactly did you mean by that? I don't go 119 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: out and just stand in front of a microphone with 120 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: acoustic guitar and strum and sing all the ballots. My 121 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: shows are even nowadays as much physical work as I've 122 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: ever done in a two hours span. Uh. If not 123 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: only requires um, the singing, and the movement. Uh. Some 124 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: shows require extracurricular above and beyond things like when I 125 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: do uh A wizard, A true Star, which was supposed 126 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: to be half of the show that we were going 127 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: to do this year. Uh. I go through how many 128 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: was it? It was twelve costume changes in an hour. 129 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: It was like every ten minutes, I had a different 130 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: costume change. Yeah, I've seen that show, right, and that's 131 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: the ship, you know, that's the show that hopefully next October, 132 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: half the show will be that and half the show 133 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: will be the Individualists tour, which uh, which I did 134 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: uh in Okay, So there's a lot of physical activity. 135 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: Do you like performing live or is it more for 136 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: the revenue or what what's driving these tours? I really 137 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: like it. I enjoy it. I always feel, you know, 138 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: worn out, a little bit beat up after a show, 139 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: but very satisfied. It's two hours of aerobics. You know, 140 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: it's all because you're singing the whole time. So it's 141 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: all about you know, you're how much wind you have, 142 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, and utilizing uh, especially when you're singing and 143 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: run around the stage at the same time. I just 144 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: feel like more fit afterwards, and I enjoy I enjoy singing. 145 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: There was a time in my life where I was 146 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: terrified to sing, and as time has gone on, my 147 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: voice has actually kind of aged well and in some 148 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: ways gotten a little bit better, and my stamina has 149 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: gotten better. I understand my voice a little better, so 150 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: I can use it more effectively. So I really enjoy 151 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: the singing. I enjoy the singing. I enjoy the interactions 152 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: with the audience. And to what degree does the audience 153 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: affect that particular performance. Would you change anything, whether it 154 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: be song selection or delivery? Uh, as a result of 155 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: where the audiences at visa VU. Well, this is not 156 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: that kind of show in that um sort of a 157 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: review and it's got to flow to it. Uh. There 158 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: are shows that I've done where I will just call 159 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: the songs out to the band. You know, we won't 160 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: have a set list, and I'll see how I feel 161 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: and see what the audience response is like, and then 162 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, figure out where to go from there. We 163 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: have a virtual audience as well. There will be a 164 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: number of these video panels with people's faces on them. 165 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: You may have seen such a thing at the NBA 166 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: Games or America's Got Talent, where the any TV show 167 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: where they think the audience is a significant part of 168 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: the of the process. So we'll have that. We'll be 169 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: able to see people's faces, and people can buy essentially 170 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: one of those seats, which will be the equivalent of 171 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: like the first three or four rows of the gig, 172 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: and that will be interspersed with any with the number 173 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: or of live bodies that we're allowed to have in 174 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: the venue at the time. Uh, you can figure that. 175 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: You can assume that in a in a multicast thing 176 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: like we're doing, there'll be a certain amount of round 177 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: trip time we do an event like I say, move, 178 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: and it takes some number of milliseconds to get to 179 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: the audience who are out there somewhere, and then any 180 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: response they have to that, we'll take some number of 181 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: milliseconds to get back, and it may not be the 182 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: same for everybody. So, uh, there's a little bit of 183 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: lag in the audience response, uh, in the virtual audience response, 184 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: which is why it's good to have live bodies there 185 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: because they respond instantaneously to whatever you're doing. And also 186 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: it's you know, in a certain sense maybe easier to 187 00:12:53,880 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: hear them because the people in the virtual audience, while 188 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: they have a screen to themselves, you know, with their 189 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: head on it, all the audio from the audience is 190 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: being mixed into one feet and so you know, we 191 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: couldn't pick out you know, if someone has yelling at 192 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: woo or something like that, we wouldn't be able to 193 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: actually pick out who it is. UM. And so you know, 194 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: it's great always to have some at least some live 195 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: bodies in the audience. I mean, we we enjoy playing 196 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: a sound check and having the people who worked the 197 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: bar applaud for us. That's good. Okay, you live in 198 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: Hawaii and when this was set up, your manager said, Okay, 199 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: it's two hours behind or ahead, depending on how you 200 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: want to look at it. And Todd doesn't start until noon. 201 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: Are you a late night person? Is that basically your schedule? Um? 202 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: It is. Uh. The daytime can be full of various 203 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: activities and interactions and the coming in and out of 204 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: the house all the time, and it's often not until 205 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: very late at night that UM when all of the 206 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: external distractions subside, I get a chance to really think 207 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: hard about all of the things that I've involved in 208 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: what it involves from me uh boring down into the 209 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: further details of of things like UH like me just 210 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: realizing the other night that I needed a musical director 211 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: because the one who usually UH is in the band 212 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: is not able to travel with us. And that's a 213 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: significant thing to slip my mind, because I have so 214 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: many things to worry about, so many details in terms 215 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: of the show. I can't be attending to everyone's issues 216 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: regarding their own particular part. That's just one of the 217 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: things that occurs to me when everything gets a little quieter. 218 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: Let's say hypothetically everybody in your house was out of town, 219 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: you had no assistance whatever, and you had to start 220 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: you during the day, would you be as productive or 221 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: is there something about later in the day and the 222 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: darkness that loosens things up it maybe, uh, it may 223 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: be the darkness. We have a rare moment of quiet here, 224 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: as you may be able to detect because living out 225 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: here in the in the countryside as I do, it 226 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: seems to be NonStop landscaping. Somebody is running a lawnmower 227 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: or a weed whacker somewhere, and and the noise doesn't 228 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: abate until like until sundown, you know, until it is 229 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: actually dark. So even if the house was empty, there's 230 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: likely some sort of droning noise or something that disturbs 231 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: the quiet. As a matter of fact, it isn't even 232 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: that quiet at night because like TOAs and frogs in 233 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: the pond out here. They'll go off, but eventually I 234 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: can tune them out, you know, and just kind of 235 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: think about the things that I need to think about. Okay, 236 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: why Hawaii. I live on the island of Kauai. And 237 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: I started coming here and like the mid seventies just 238 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: to get some peace and quiet for myself, and all 239 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: through the seventies and eighties kept coming here. And in 240 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: the early nineties, I had a video animation studio that 241 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: I was running, and we had a big deliverable and 242 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: I took everyone two out here to Kauai after that 243 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: deliverable was made, and it was about eight months after 244 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: Hurricane Hurricane called Hurricane and Nikki, which was like a 245 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty mile and our winds and the I 246 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: went right over the island and completely flattened it. And 247 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: we were out are staying in a condo because none 248 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: of the hotels were open. And I thought, well, I 249 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: had always fantasized about living out here. If if there's 250 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: gonna be any affordable real estate opportunities, this would be 251 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: the time, you know, because everyone's been blown off the island. 252 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: So looked around and looked around and was about to 253 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: give up, and then found the property that I'm living 254 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: on now. And it took uh moving mountains essentially to 255 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: get it. A couple of things had to coincide, and 256 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: did finally get it, but didn't build on it. And 257 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: then it was the mid nineties and we were living 258 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: in Saucelito and we're pondering on it because life and 259 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: sauce Lito is getting less idyllic. For one thing, Silicon Valley, 260 00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: which you know, I moved out in the mid eighties 261 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: and it was still like huge fund the whole hacker 262 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: scene and stuff like you would I would go to hackers, 263 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: hackers conventions and hacking. It meant, you know, just doing 264 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: the most you know, balls out uh computer coding and 265 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: stuff like that. It wasn't necessarily about breaking into other 266 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: people's systems. As a matter of fact, there was no 267 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: Internet yet so or at least nobody was using it. 268 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: So it was a lot of fun. And then you know, 269 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: it became a gold mine and all of those engineers, 270 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: all those fun people got replaced by investment bankers, and 271 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: all the musicians and artists and stuff. They used to 272 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: live in Mill Valley, they all got pushed out by 273 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: investment bankers, you know, who would you know, be on 274 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: their cell phones driving ninety miles an hour through the 275 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: Waldh Grade and so. And at the same time, this 276 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: is when some series is gangster wrap is happening, uh, 277 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: the kind where people get get killed. Right next to 278 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: Saucelito is a town called uh Marine City. Not a town, 279 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: it's a development actually, and that's where Tupac Shakur came from. 280 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: And we're living in Saucelito right next door, and my uh, 281 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: my adolescent son, you know, my fourteen year old son 282 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: is telling everyone that he's in Tupacs Posse, you know, 283 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: and there we hear about gang shooting and stuff in 284 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: Oakland is happening all the time, his gang rivalries. But 285 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: we fortunately find out at the same time that my 286 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: oldest son is something of a baseball prodigy, and we say, okay, 287 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. We're gonna find a baseball school 288 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: and Honolulu for him to go to and get him 289 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: out of this gangster scene, you know, and we'll moved 290 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: to Kauaii and get away from essentially, you know, the 291 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: investment bankers and the gangsters and and start again. And 292 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: that's essentially what we did. Okay, I'm sure your kids 293 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: weren't happy about that, while somewhere and somewheren't. Um younger 294 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: kids weren't so old as you know, as to be 295 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: as bothered by it. Okay, So do you ever get 296 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: island fever? Up until now, never like, I've never spent 297 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: a lot of time like dreaming about going to other places. 298 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, I spent so much time on the road. 299 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: I mean in the past couple of years, especially since 300 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: about two thousand and ten, when I started touring with 301 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: the All Star Band, and that became like half of 302 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: my touring life, and then my own thing was the 303 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: other half of my touring life. And then other sorts 304 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: of events like appearing with the Metropole Orchestra and Amsterdam 305 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: or other a little one off things, I might find 306 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: myself on the road as long as ten months a year. 307 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: And at that point, when I realized I had been 308 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: on the road ten months a year, I said, this 309 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: has got to stop. We have to sort of, you know, 310 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: reverse this. Eventually, my stint with the All Star Band ended, 311 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: so that gave me back more time. But through all 312 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: of that, I, you know, I was always pining to 313 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: be home. You know, it's like I don't get enough 314 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: time at home. I don't get enough time to forget 315 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: that I've got another flight to take off island again. 316 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: So when I got back home in February from a 317 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: rock cruise that we did, sounds scary, doesn't it. It 318 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: was in the Caribbean, so I hadn't hit there yet. 319 00:21:53,800 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: But I got home and was expecting to be back 320 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: in uh, back on the mainland in April, rehearsing for 321 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: my show that would have started in May and gone 322 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: through June. And suddenly that wasn't happening. That got moved, 323 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: and then I realized, Okay, I'll be home until July 324 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: at least. And then I realized I'll be home until 325 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: the fall. And then I realized I'll be home until 326 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: next year. So that's when I started getting more serious 327 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: about this virtual tourt thing. You know. Yeah, now I 328 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: have like in my head a whole list of places 329 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: where I'd like to go as soon as I can, 330 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: as soon as I can go there, and as they'll 331 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: soon as they'll allow. Americans, they're okay, are you the 332 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: type of person who's been around the world and see 333 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: nothing other than hotel rooms or stages or when you 334 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: go to places, do you seek out the cultural elements 335 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, food, friends. That's the reason why we're localizing 336 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: all of these shows. Uh. We the traveling is the 337 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: worst part, you know, that's trying to get there is 338 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: the worst part. Being there is usually pretty great, whether aside. 339 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, but you know all of these places that 340 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: were about to play virtually we you know, we know 341 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: them in a sense. We know fans and those cities 342 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: who show up to every show. Uh. There are walks 343 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: that you like to take, landmarks that you know, restaurants 344 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: you like to eat at. It's great at being in 345 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: some of these cities. It's great having a day off 346 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: in some of these cities. And uh that's part of 347 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: why we're you know, working on this self hypnosis exercise 348 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: so that we actually believe when we do the show 349 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: that we're in that city, that we're in Buffalo or 350 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: Baltimore or wherever it is that we're playing. I don't 351 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: have all the dates in my ahead. Okay. Now, as 352 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: you say you were working on the road up to 353 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: ten months a year, you're someone has had a lot 354 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: of recording success. Not only is yourself as an act 355 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: but producing other records at this point, if I told 356 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: you you couldn't go on the road ever again, economically, 357 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: does it work for you or do you need to 358 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: work to you know, pay the bills? Probably at some 359 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: point I'd have to work. But I'm not in relative 360 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: to like me, which is like, I have this weird 361 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: thing about money, and so I never and never have 362 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: known how much I have unless it's all in my pocket, 363 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, and I can count it. But I have 364 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: had since the time I had any money at all, 365 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: I've had an accountant or a or a business manager 366 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: who worries about all that, And I said, don't tell 367 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: me how much money I have. Just tell me how 368 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: hard I have to work, or tell me that I 369 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: can take some time off, you know, whatever that's I 370 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: need to know. And there have been points in which 371 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: I've been well underwater because of various circumstances, like after 372 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: the um, after the mortgage collapse in this house that 373 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm living in, we finished it in and then suddenly 374 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: all of the equity and it disappeared, and I was 375 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: holding a mortgage and in a world of collapsed finances 376 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: that was like three times the actual value of the house. 377 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: At that point. So I've had you know, I've had 378 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: ups and downs. At this particular point in my life, 379 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: I'm actually doing pretty well, ironically enough. And a lot 380 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: of that has to do with um, uh, with regression 381 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: of rights. Um. You know there's some found in the background. Yeah, 382 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: the freaking frog, and I will shoot him. It's a frog, 383 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: then we can leave. It's part of living in Hawaii. Okay. Yeah, 384 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: it's a frog in my not in my throat, in 385 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: my pond over here. Okay, tell us about your situational 386 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: reversion of rights by some act of Congress or multiple 387 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: acts of Congress. It used to be that, um, if 388 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: you recorded for a record label, the masters would belong 389 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: to them in perpetuity. You know, you would have them 390 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: for infinity. Uh. Same thing with certain publishing rights and 391 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: things like that, and oft an artists. If they didn't 392 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: feel like those rights were being handled properly or they 393 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: felt that they should rightfully own them, they would have 394 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: to sue whoever owned them. It was a big ongoing mess. 395 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: So by an act of Congress, uh, they made a 396 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: statutory that after a certain number of years, like thirty 397 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: thirty five years or something like that. Uh, the masters 398 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: could revert to you, and all you have to do 399 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: is make a request to the master owner, uh and 400 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: tell them, like in a like a year before, say 401 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: I am going to get I'd like to get my 402 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: masters back. And what often happens, especially if you have 403 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: a big catalog like me, a deep catalog, is they 404 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: will say, well, we'd rather not um give up those rights. 405 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: We'd rather keep those rights. We think there's value in 406 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: them that we can realize, and so we will advance you. 407 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: An I've seen amount of money to retain the master 408 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: rights or retain the publishing rights or whatever. And a 409 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: bunch of those deals because I started in the sixties, 410 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 1: you know a lot of that stuff UH came do 411 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: and continues do we come do with every year? Because 412 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: I continue to make records every year? So uh, these 413 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: things would have been minor annuities or me off setting 414 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: advances that I had previously taken. And now they are 415 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: all giant. Now it's my retirement. You know. Now I 416 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: have more money in the bank than I've ever had 417 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: all because of these uh reversions did I say regressions? Reversions? 418 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: You know, things reverting back in the deals that you 419 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: make around them. So I would not be in dire 420 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: straight right away, but I still feel the need to 421 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: remain involved in uh, in making records for myself and 422 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: for others, in the sense that I haven't learned everything 423 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: there is, and as long as there's still something for 424 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: me to learn, I am going to continue to UM 425 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: to explore the medium. Okay, now, you've produced a lot 426 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 1: of very successful records, the biggest being Out of Hell 427 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: is one of the most successful records of all time. 428 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: But you sold your producer royalties, right, so ay, why 429 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: did you do that? And be do you regret it? 430 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: And see if you sold your other producer royalties. That's 431 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: the only instance when in which I, you know, had 432 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: someone buy me out. Uh. When sometime around when when 433 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: Columbia became Sony, Sony brought out Columbia Records, Uh, Bad 434 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: out of Hell was on a subsidiary of Epic, which 435 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: was a part of the Columbia Records umbrella. UM, there 436 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: was a lot of people talking fast and loose about 437 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: how many Bad Out of Hell records have been sold, 438 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: and uh, Meatloaf and Stimon and their management or their 439 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: accountants or whatever thought, well, these brags don't equal, you know, 440 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: the amount of money that we've got and paid, so 441 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: we want to audit the label. Auditing is a thing 442 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: that um. Auditing is a thing that artists do when 443 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: they think that they hadn't been paid all the money 444 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: that they wrote from a label, and it involves lawyers 445 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: and accountants, and you have to spend money to make money, 446 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: and you don't know whether you actually will because maybe 447 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: the audit turns out that, yeah, you have been paid 448 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: all the royalties you wrote. But um. They wanted to 449 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: meet Loaf and Stemon and their management wanted to have 450 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: Sony audited and asked if I wanted to participate in it, 451 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: which meant that I would be also be playing lawyer's fees, 452 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: et cetera. You know, for however long that dragged out, 453 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: and quite obviously we'll be talking about a lot of money. 454 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: So I said, I don't want to be involved in 455 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: this UM. So I offered meat Loaf, uh my points 456 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: on the record, I said, do you want to buy 457 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: me out? And he demurred, And so then I went 458 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: to Sony and said, do you want to buy me out? 459 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: Because they'd have to pay me the the producer's royalties, 460 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: and they said, sure, we'll buy you out, and what 461 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: did I do with that money? I bought the property 462 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: I'm living on today. Do I regret that? Not for 463 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: a second. Okay, all your other records usually a producers 464 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: paid from record one. Do you think you're being accounted 465 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: to properly? Um? I got to the point because after 466 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: after something anything, I always had a studio of my own. 467 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: Verson was Secret Sound in New York, and then I 468 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: had a studio when I moved up state. So I 469 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: always had access to a studio, or I could get 470 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: a studio UM for a pretty good rate, and a 471 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: lot of the costs for making a record would go 472 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: and go into studio costs, the hourly cost of of 473 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: renting a studio, and the longer that an artist will 474 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: work on the record, the more the cost might soar. 475 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: So the deal that I would make is it with 476 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: the label would be give me all the money for 477 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: the record, all the money the budget for the record, 478 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: including my producers advance, and it would be the six 479 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: figure lump sum of money, and so whatever I didn't 480 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: spend on making the record was my producer's advance. But 481 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: all of that would be you know, would be uh 482 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: taken off the tip that all of that had to 483 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: be amortized before anybody would see further royalties. The only 484 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: way you get royalties from record one is if is 485 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: if you never took an advance on anything. You know, 486 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: at first have to defray the advance and then you 487 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: start making royalties. And because I had this kind of 488 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: control over the process, it turned out to be uh, 489 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: very desirable for a lot of labels, especially if they 490 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: thought the artist was going to go into the studio 491 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: and start ditthering away, you know and running up the 492 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: tab you know, because nobody was actually you know, keeping 493 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: a firm hand on the tiller. And I always had 494 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: impetus to do that because I knew it was coming 495 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: out of whatever would be my producer's advance. So it 496 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of worked out for everybody in that sense. Um. 497 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: But that that was in the old days. That's the 498 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: old record label days. That doesn't exist anymore that much. Yeah, 499 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: But as I see some of these records, you did 500 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: obviously earned out. We're an American man. We can go 501 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: on and not do you get paid on those records today? 502 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: Only if they ever sold anything? Uh well, some of 503 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: these records sold a lot. Yeah, so probably no, I 504 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: did not get paid, But that was. That was the 505 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: very first. That was the first time that I found 506 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: a band and produced their records for bears Will Records. 507 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: And yes, quite obviously it uh, it didn't sell a lot. 508 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait what what what record? What record? Are 509 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: we talking about? American Dream? I'm sorry, the American Dream 510 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: record that was the first got my Americans mixed up. 511 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: My manager was Albert Grossman and it was Albert Grossman's label, Bearsville, 512 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: So I had no idea what I was getting paid. It's, 513 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: you know, my manager negotiating with the label and they're 514 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: both the same person. So I had no idea what, 515 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: you know, what I would be paid for it, no 516 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: idea what the budget for it was, what they spent 517 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: for it. But we did it the old fashioned way. 518 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: We went into into a commercial studio and paid the 519 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: hourly rate, came up with a record, and didn't take 520 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: awful long. Then you didn't spend months making records in 521 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: those days unless you were the bands. But eventually I 522 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: began to figure out, you know, when I have my 523 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: own studio that you know, I could take over you 524 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: know a greater part of the process. Relieve everybody of 525 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: worrying about how much time we were spending in the studio. Indeed, 526 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: once I moved to act into the studio, we more 527 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: or less owned it. No one else could come in. 528 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: And that was a rarity as well, you know, to 529 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: have your own studio and to completely occupy it twenty 530 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: four hours a day. So tell us about Albert Grossman 531 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: thumbs upper, thumbs down, and what was his personality like that? 532 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,439 Speaker 1: You saw the legend in the business. Albert um did 533 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: a lot for me. I mean he sort of made me, 534 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: made me what I am in some ways, and then 535 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: in the end he screwed me. And that's Albert Grossman, 536 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, I mean asked Bob Dylan. So tell us 537 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: how he screwed you in the end. It was it 538 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: says he was notorious for this kind of stuff. He 539 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: really valued more than anything publishing, uh, ownership or control 540 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: of the songs, even more than the actual recordings themselves. 541 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: And uh it was my last contractual album for bears 542 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: Full Records, and he only participated the publishing as long 543 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: as I was making records for Bearsville. So if my 544 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: relationship with bears Will ended, it also ended my publishing relationship. 545 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: And so I did the last contractual album it was 546 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: called Acapella, and delivered it to Bearsville and I heard 547 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: nothing back. And then eventually I started to say, what's 548 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: going on? Have you have you set a release date 549 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: for this record? And then no, we haven't said a 550 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: release date, and Albert said, well, I'm not going to 551 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: release this record, and I thought, what's what in particular 552 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: is wrong with this record? Uh? And then he eyed 553 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: to me and said Warner Brothers didn't want to release it. 554 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: And it took me a couple of weeks to get 555 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: ahold of MO Austin, and then I finally got him 556 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: on the phone. He said, I've never heard this record. 557 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: I didn't even know you had a record, you know, 558 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: so uh And so the jig was up at that point. 559 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: And realized that, you know, he was sticking it to 560 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: me to get uh more publishing. So we did is 561 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: he negotiated a three album deal with Warner Brothers, and 562 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: he got a publishing for those three albums, and then 563 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: he agreed to release Acapella. And I never spoke to 564 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: him again after that. Do you think you would have 565 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: been successful as you are if you hadn't met Albert Grossman? 566 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: Possibly not. I was just living at that at the time, 567 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: I was living with cloth Ears in the East Village, 568 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: and I was making no music at all. I was 569 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: designing lights in a in a little disc get tech. 570 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: I was doing anything I could to make any kind 571 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: of money or or just stay alive. And I was 572 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: living off the kindness of others. And I was hanging 573 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: out as Steve Paul's the scene, hoping something musical might happen. 574 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: I would go all all the jam sessions, you know, 575 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: maybe a band would happen, something like that. And then 576 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: I got contacted by the partner of the of the 577 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: guy who managed the NAZ. He was he and the 578 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: guy John Curland who managed the NAZ. They sort of 579 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: discovered us. But before the NAZ broke up, he quit, 580 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 1: you know, he split up with with our manager and 581 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: went to work for Albert Grossman. And Albert Grossman said, my, uh, 582 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: my roster here is pretty gray. They're all like artists 583 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: who you know, they're like folk artists, and here it 584 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 1: is like, so I need somebody, We need some young 585 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: blood in here, and you know, any young blood. And 586 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: he had watched me sort of take over the production 587 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 1: of the NAZ albums and thought, well, that's pretty impressive 588 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: for a young guy. Let's see what he can do. 589 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: So I was invited to start working for the Grossman organization, 590 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: and at first I was just doing engineering and a 591 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: little production, and I was very successful at it. And 592 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: then after I had done a few projects, I asked 593 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: for a budget to do a vanity record on my 594 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: own because I was still writing music. And that turned 595 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: out to be run, the first solo record that I did, 596 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 1: and it accidentally had a hit record on it. Okay, 597 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: why are there multiple iteration of that record? Uh? We 598 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: did a test pressing and it became apparent that the 599 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: sound was much louder on one side than the other, 600 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: because the volume of of an LP had to do 601 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: with how much content was actually on it, which is 602 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: why I like led Zeppelin records only lasted minutes. You know, 603 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: they'd have three songs on the side and the whole 604 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:36,919 Speaker 1: side would last, you know, sixteen minutes or something like that. 605 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: So if you wanted your records to sound loud, you 606 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: had to put less music on them. But I had 607 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: put too much music on the B side, and so 608 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,919 Speaker 1: we realized I had to edit it, and we took 609 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: three songs and edited them down to a Medley and 610 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: then remassed the record, but some confusion in there UH 611 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: caused them to press a run of like about five 612 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: thousand of the rejected masters, the ones that sounded louder 613 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: on one side than the other, And so there are 614 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: a few of those out there still extent, but most 615 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: of the records, any of the re issues, are all 616 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: of the one with the Medley instead of the three 617 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: full songs. Okay, now, those initial records were via Ampex 618 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: before they we uh went to Warner Brothers, and then 619 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: the market was flooded with cutouts. Was that something you 620 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 1: were aware of on your end? No, I didn't pay 621 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: much attention to that, but it seems logical. Uh. The 622 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: deal with Ampex was kind of weird. UM. When Albert 623 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: decided he wanted his own label, Theresbul Records, instead of 624 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: going to another you know label for distribution or real 625 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: record label, he went to Ampex, who only ever did 626 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: tapes up until that point. They would do real to 627 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: real versions of LPs and in which case the volume 628 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: was uniformed throughout. But and hired a guy I don't 629 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: know whether he worked at Ampex or whether it was 630 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,240 Speaker 1: just another guy, but made essentially a tape company, record 631 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: distribution company, and they didn't realize what the difference was, 632 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: you know. So that relationship only lasted about a year, 633 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 1: and they took Bearsville and made a sensible deal with 634 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:35,919 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, and Warner Brothers distributed them until the label folded. Essentially. Okay, now, 635 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: the first record has a hit with shitty distribution. In 636 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: terms of the album itself, the second album, in my mind, 637 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: is a masterpiece. I prefer that to something anything, To 638 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: put your heart and soul into that album and have 639 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,280 Speaker 1: limited commercial success and to not fly above the radar. 640 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 1: Was that something you felt and you were disappointed about? Well, 641 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, not for myself. I'm always disappointed, you know 642 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: when radio gets conservative and just starts playing the same 643 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: music over and over. Um. But this is in the 644 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: midst of me being one of the most successful producers 645 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: in the world at this point, and I don't have 646 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: to worry about the economics of my own records. That 647 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: was the point, the realization that I had during something anything, Uh, 648 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: when people were comparing me to Carol King, is it 649 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: always the madle Carol King. And as much as I 650 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: was a Carol King fan, I didn't want to be 651 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: compared to anybody, and I started to realize, what's the 652 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 1: point of doing music that other people are doing. I 653 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: have to do music that only I would do. And 654 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: that's when I built a studio for the purposes of 655 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: doing the music that only I would do. And you know, 656 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: the the market be deiled. You know how how commercial 657 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: it was never even occurred to me. But the irony is, uh, well, 658 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: there are a couple of irony. Is One irony is 659 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 1: that it completely bifurcated my audience. Anyone who was like 660 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, a fan up until something anything uh and 661 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: didn't make that leap, never bought another record again, and 662 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: for some reason think I retired from the music business 663 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: and never record another song after that. And they come 664 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,399 Speaker 1: to the shows and on they want to hear is solo. 665 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: It's me and I saw the light. And then there 666 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: are those fans who endured a wizit, a true star 667 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 1: and realized there was something in there, something unique in there, 668 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 1: and and continued on the journey, realizing that the unexpected 669 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,720 Speaker 1: was part of the reward. You know that most audience 670 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:57,720 Speaker 1: members want more of the same. My audience wants wants 671 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: to know what weird hairs up my bum at this point, 672 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,919 Speaker 1: you know, so uh, and that's lasted mostly to this day, 673 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,359 Speaker 1: and it became a generational thing. About ten years ago 674 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,760 Speaker 1: or so ago, a whole generation of younger artists started 675 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 1: to discover, in particular A Wizard a True Star. The 676 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: first instance of that was Taman Palea. Kevin Parker asked 677 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: me to do a remix and said that, you know, 678 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: it was one of the most influential albums. You know 679 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: that his album that he was putting out was his 680 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,279 Speaker 1: version of A Wizard a True Star. I did a 681 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,240 Speaker 1: remix for Trent Resider and he said that he listened 682 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: to A Wizard a True Star once a month. So 683 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: it opened up posthumously. It opened up all this whole 684 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 1: window to a younger generation of artists who got tired 685 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: of doing the same music that everybody does nowadays and 686 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: do the same thing that I do, which is go 687 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 1: back and see what has been done, uh, even like 688 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: prior to your generation. Uh, and see if there's anything 689 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: to learn in it. See if there's something something that 690 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 1: will inspire you to to change what you're doing or 691 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: somehow give you license to do something that's out of 692 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: the ordinary. And what have you gone back and been 693 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,800 Speaker 1: inspired by Oh. I have several instances of that. Maybe 694 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 1: the most obvious is UH with a Twist, where I 695 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: was approached to to do new versions of my old 696 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: classics or standards or whatever you want to call them, 697 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: and Uh, most people would just get out an acoustic 698 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 1: guitar and you know, do a new version. And I 699 00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: had been listening to Bossanova music of the of the 700 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: of the early sixties, like pre Beatles. You know, we're 701 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:09,360 Speaker 1: talking before the Beatles. There was a whole era m 702 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: in the late eighties and early nineties when everyone was well, 703 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 1: when not everyone but certain people were transitioning from vinyl 704 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: to c ds, and the Japanese in particular just got 705 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: really mental about it and they started going back and 706 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: finding any obscure vinyl they could find and doing CD 707 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 1: re re releases. And we were touring Japan a lot 708 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,760 Speaker 1: in those days, and we would go to this record 709 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: store called Wave was just a multi story place with 710 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: they had had LPs once floor, but most all of 711 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,560 Speaker 1: it was CDs, a lot of special releases and weird 712 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: packaging and stuff like that. But one of the things 713 00:47:52,560 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: that they started started rereleasing where for instance, UH, Frank Sinatra, 714 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: the Capitol years, uh uh, and this whole genre that 715 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:14,080 Speaker 1: they called bachelor pad music or cocktail music, you know, 716 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 1: which included Boston Nova, included uh all kinds of like 717 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:28,320 Speaker 1: freaky like esquivel, you know, Martin Denny, exoticam music, that 718 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And I got way into that. And 719 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: so when they asked me to do a new album 720 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: of of my standards, I said, I'm gonna make a 721 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: Bossonova album. So we did a whole Bossonova album, and 722 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,240 Speaker 1: then we went out and did a tour in which 723 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: the stage was a small like tiki club tiki bar. 724 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,879 Speaker 1: Every night that, you know, wherever we were, we were 725 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: in the same tiki bar. And we did three acts. 726 00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: You know. We started out with the Boston Nova act, 727 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 1: and then we do a sort of a more exotic act, 728 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: and then we do an after hours act. And we 729 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: had tables and a bar and a bouncer, and we 730 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,319 Speaker 1: would invite people from the audience to come sit in 731 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 1: like they were on a tour bus and came to 732 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: our little Honolulu club to watch us play a set. 733 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: We would turn them out everyone to bring in a 734 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 1: new audience for each set, and by the time we 735 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,879 Speaker 1: got to the very end of the set, there would 736 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 1: be nothing but one girl and one drunk at the 737 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,919 Speaker 1: bar and he would hit on the girl. We would 738 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: tell them what they were supposed to do, and he 739 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 1: would hit on the girl on the bouncer would kick 740 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: him out and that would be the end of the show. Okay. Now, 741 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: since you put out a lot of records and not 742 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,879 Speaker 1: all of them were expected by the labels, you ever 743 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,000 Speaker 1: deliver one and they said, we don't want to put 744 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: it out, or it's gonna be different. There was an 745 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: instance where I made it an actually beautiful, magnificent record, uh, 746 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: with a girl named Julie. Oh gosh, she's gonna hate 747 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:09,319 Speaker 1: me because I can't remember her name, but really a 748 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: really terrific record. She was had long been a background 749 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,280 Speaker 1: singer for Leonard Cohen, but she had an incredible voice, 750 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,120 Speaker 1: an incredible material, and great arrangements. It was a terrific 751 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:28,040 Speaker 1: record that has never seen the light of day because, um, 752 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to grind any access here but a 753 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,480 Speaker 1: certain person. But it was for Mercury Records, and a 754 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,840 Speaker 1: certain person came in and took over the presidency of 755 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: Mercury Records and said any project that was started before 756 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 1: I got here is in the dumpster and it didn't 757 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,640 Speaker 1: matter what the quality of it was. And historically you could, 758 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,880 Speaker 1: if you do the math, you can probably figure out 759 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:55,040 Speaker 1: who this prick was, but uh, I'm not gonna name him. 760 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,360 Speaker 1: I think I do know who it is, but that's okay. 761 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,200 Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, that was that was a heartbreaking, you know, 762 00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: because I had nothing to do with the quality of 763 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: the record. You know, it was a completely political decision 764 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,799 Speaker 1: and uh, and I think that discouraged her so much 765 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: that she never went to find another label to pick 766 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,440 Speaker 1: up the record, so that I really regret because I 767 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 1: thought it was a beautiful piece of work. Julie Christensen, 768 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:28,359 Speaker 1: Julie Christensen, thank you, thank you. How did you end 769 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 1: up as the engineer on stage? Right? Well, that was 770 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: kind of what they brought me in for, uh, to 771 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: take these older acts and uh and sort of update them. 772 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,320 Speaker 1: And I don't remember what the very very first session 773 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 1: I did was. It might they might have put me 774 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 1: on some demo sections or something like that. See if 775 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,920 Speaker 1: you can, you know, just come up with a song 776 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:58,520 Speaker 1: out of this artist. Um, then uh, I guess they decided, okay, 777 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,719 Speaker 1: if we're gonna hired this guy. We got to give 778 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,680 Speaker 1: him some kind of definitive test. So they hired me 779 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:13,239 Speaker 1: to um engineer Jesse Winchester's first album. Robbie Robertson was 780 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:20,040 Speaker 1: producing it, and the and the backup was essentially the band, 781 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 1: and I was was the producer in other words, the producer. 782 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: And that we had to record it in Toronto because, uh, 783 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:37,959 Speaker 1: Jesse Winchester was a conscientious objector to the Vietnam War 784 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,080 Speaker 1: and then he was living in Montreal, so we had 785 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,760 Speaker 1: a studio in Toronto. Kicked the engineer out of the studio, 786 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,040 Speaker 1: maybe kept a tape off or something like that. And 787 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,240 Speaker 1: it was the first time I had a big, serious, 788 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 1: you know session, and I just winged it. I winged 789 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,400 Speaker 1: it through the whole thing. I winged it through. I 790 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,560 Speaker 1: knew a little bit about Mike play been his stuff 791 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:06,160 Speaker 1: from doing the NAS records. Uh yeah, winged my way 792 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: through the session. And in the end they were happy 793 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,160 Speaker 1: with how I did it and what it sounded like, 794 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,080 Speaker 1: and so they said, Okay, you're doing stage fright now. 795 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,720 Speaker 1: That was pretty much the very next thing that happened 796 00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,000 Speaker 1: the Jesse Winchester record was Robbie in the studio were 797 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 1: you the de facto producer. No, No, Robbie. Robbie was 798 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: the producer. Okay, And now on that record there was 799 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,960 Speaker 1: a song that came part of he became legendary, but 800 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 1: never was he hit Yankee Lady? Did you know that 801 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: that would be? You know, when you're in the studio 802 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: and you're hearing these tracks, that would be the first 803 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,480 Speaker 1: of them. Do you wait? There's something about this one 804 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:49,280 Speaker 1: and this one is gonna go No. Actually, Albert, before 805 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 1: I went up to do the project, played it for me. 806 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: He played Yankee Lady. He didn't play any other song. 807 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,799 Speaker 1: He said, this is the song that has sold this 808 00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,759 Speaker 1: record to me. So so he was. He was really 809 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,840 Speaker 1: high on it and played it for me. He played 810 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,480 Speaker 1: it for anybody who would listen to it. As a 811 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:11,920 Speaker 1: matter of fact, he thought there was something especially in Trigue, 812 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,920 Speaker 1: not just about the song and the way that he's 813 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:18,319 Speaker 1: saying it, but something intriguing about the story because it 814 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: was Jesse Winchester's story, going from Arkansas or wherever he 815 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,279 Speaker 1: grew up to as far north as he could get. 816 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:35,200 Speaker 1: So even beyond Yankee he went canok So, what was 817 00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: the first project that bb beyond the stage Right record? 818 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:47,719 Speaker 1: That was outside of the Beersville stable. Um. Well, as 819 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,880 Speaker 1: I said, the first project, the first band I managed 820 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: to get signed was the American Dream and and that 821 00:54:54,560 --> 00:55:01,400 Speaker 1: was on that was on Bearsville. But I think the uh, 822 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,719 Speaker 1: the first significant one I was doing stuff for the 823 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 1: Bearsville stable. It wasn't always on Bearsville records. Like I 824 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 1: went to Nashville and did an Ian and Sylvia record, 825 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, or two UH went back to l A 826 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: and did a James Cotton record, but they would have 827 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:27,240 Speaker 1: been for their own labels, whatever those labels were. Um. 828 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,200 Speaker 1: I think the first big, you know, the big signature 829 00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:35,319 Speaker 1: project outside of the immediate stable was Bad Finger was 830 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,520 Speaker 1: straight up. Now that was a whole troubled project. Never 831 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:44,839 Speaker 1: mind the ultimate credit and trouble till I got there. Well, 832 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, these records have been released with 833 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,840 Speaker 1: your additions and the other people's mixes and productions, and 834 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,040 Speaker 1: it's black and white. You can see what yours were 835 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,799 Speaker 1: relevantive emotional things. Yours were the the ones that were 836 00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:03,080 Speaker 1: the successful artistically an commercial way. Well, when I got there, 837 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,680 Speaker 1: of course they had been through to producers already. Jeff Emrick, 838 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,000 Speaker 1: who was had been the Beatles engineer. I had done 839 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,440 Speaker 1: a whole record and for some reason it got rejected 840 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,279 Speaker 1: and I read later that the American label didn't hear 841 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,120 Speaker 1: a hit song on it, so they said, no, we're 842 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:26,560 Speaker 1: not gonna put this out. It might have been fined 843 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,600 Speaker 1: by Apple in England, but apparently the American distributors said no. 844 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,840 Speaker 1: So then George got involved. But he hadn't gotten halfway 845 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,480 Speaker 1: through the record before he got distracted by the concert 846 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,680 Speaker 1: for Bangladesh and just didn't have the time. But the 847 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,400 Speaker 1: other issues with George's thing was that they were sonic 848 00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,640 Speaker 1: in that he was kind of in the thrall of 849 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 1: Phil Specter at the time. And Phil Specter doesn't think 850 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,520 Speaker 1: about a band, you know. A matter of fact, when 851 00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,640 Speaker 1: Phil Specter produced the beat was the first thing he 852 00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,160 Speaker 1: did was slap an orchestra on it, you know, so 853 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,600 Speaker 1: he didn't think in terms of bands, you know. But 854 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,040 Speaker 1: Bad Finger was a band and they needed to sound 855 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,120 Speaker 1: like a band. And uh so a lot of the 856 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 1: stuff that I got from George I just had too 857 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 1: much on it. You know. It had like triple track 858 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,240 Speaker 1: acoustic guitars, the drums were back in the soup, you know, 859 00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,440 Speaker 1: all Phil Specter um and it sounded nothing like the 860 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Emricks stuff. Uh. I didn't tackle it right away. 861 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,040 Speaker 1: The first thing I did was, like, let's pretend we're 862 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,960 Speaker 1: doing a new record, you know, before I get into 863 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,560 Speaker 1: like recovering any of the old stuff. Let's let's start 864 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:46,320 Speaker 1: over and pretend we're doing a new record. So we 865 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 1: went into the studio and I think the very first 866 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:53,280 Speaker 1: thing we did was baby Blue. Uh. And we did 867 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,000 Speaker 1: a few more things, and gradually in the process we 868 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,520 Speaker 1: started looking back at the old material and thinking what 869 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,760 Speaker 1: should we try and keep here. And we knew that 870 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,040 Speaker 1: day after day should be a keeper. But it didn't 871 00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 1: sound right. Um. So I rerecorded the drums, uh rerecord 872 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,240 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff throughout some of the sounds so 873 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,160 Speaker 1: that it sounded more like a band, that the drums 874 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:23,080 Speaker 1: were less soupy. Uh. And on any of the George 875 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,720 Speaker 1: Harrison tracks that we used. That was more or less 876 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,480 Speaker 1: the process get get it out of the specter zone 877 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 1: a little more into the bad finger zone that Jeff 878 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:37,640 Speaker 1: Emrick stuff was. That was the opposite almost too bare, 879 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, it was almost a little too raw, and 880 00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,840 Speaker 1: there wasn't any effort to to, you know, sort of 881 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:48,919 Speaker 1: dress up the details. Um, so a combination of those 882 00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,080 Speaker 1: three things eventually went into the record, and you know, 883 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,000 Speaker 1: I had to somehow try and mix it like it 884 00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,640 Speaker 1: sounded like it all happened at the same time instead 885 00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,480 Speaker 1: of over the course of like a year and a 886 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: half or something. Now, two members of that being committed suicide. 887 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,680 Speaker 1: The story is over a lack of royalties, lack of payment. 888 00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,040 Speaker 1: Was that something you saw in those two band members 889 00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,960 Speaker 1: while making this record, that maybe they were on the 890 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 1: line or frustrated where they just upbeat when you dealt 891 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,320 Speaker 1: with them. No, it didn't get into any of that stuff. 892 00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:29,760 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I was supposed to produce 893 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:34,080 Speaker 1: the second record, the record after that, and came in 894 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,160 Speaker 1: and did uh. We were We moved into Apple Studios, 895 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,600 Speaker 1: which had been completed and vacated and UH and set 896 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,840 Speaker 1: up on the first night and did a little bit 897 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,600 Speaker 1: of I think we tried to lay down a track 898 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,080 Speaker 1: the first night, and I came in the second night 899 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:54,960 Speaker 1: and they fired me without explanation. They just said, we 900 00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,920 Speaker 1: don't want you to work on the record anymore. See you. 901 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,120 Speaker 1: And so from that point on, I knew there was 902 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,360 Speaker 1: something going on the bay, but I had no idea 903 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:06,000 Speaker 1: what it was, and they didn't inform me, and I 904 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,080 Speaker 1: had to make the assumption that, you know, the the 905 01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,560 Speaker 1: reason why I was kind of like on the outside 906 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:16,680 Speaker 1: was that I didn't go out drinking at the pub 907 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,160 Speaker 1: with them or something like that. You know, I didn't 908 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,680 Speaker 1: pal around with them. I just wanted to get their 909 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: damn records done, so uh, and so I think that 910 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,960 Speaker 1: they just felt that there was something that wasn't meshing 911 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,480 Speaker 1: between us or whatever, or that I was too dictatorial 912 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,880 Speaker 1: because of what had happened on the last record, and 913 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,880 Speaker 1: I didn't want this one to start drifting like the 914 01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 1: last one had. So that was it. And I didn't 915 01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,280 Speaker 1: hear anything from anybody in the band four years, years, 916 01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:55,760 Speaker 1: years and years until almost more recently, Uh, when we 917 01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,960 Speaker 1: did you know a beat one of them Beatle tribute shows, 918 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,120 Speaker 1: and me and Joey Mullins were on stage together for 919 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,200 Speaker 1: the whole thing, and we were we were fine with 920 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:12,240 Speaker 1: each other, probably because we both rather forget that that episode. Okay, 921 01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,440 Speaker 1: but your reputation, I don't know the reality. That's why 922 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm asking you. Only you were there was that you 923 01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: were kind of dictatorial in general as a producer. Would 924 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 1: that be? Is that how you saw it well. I 925 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:28,720 Speaker 1: was never into the idea of someone come into the 926 01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,600 Speaker 1: studio unprepared, just on the assumption that they're gonna make 927 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,800 Speaker 1: a record or get something done. As I mentioned, I 928 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,520 Speaker 1: this we're in the seventies now, but I came up 929 01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,440 Speaker 1: in that kind of like mid late sixties are my 930 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,840 Speaker 1: first studio experiences. And you didn't waste time in the studio, 931 01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,840 Speaker 1: you know, when uh, we were trying to get signed, 932 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,080 Speaker 1: when the NASA is trying to get signed, and you 933 01:01:55,120 --> 01:02:00,320 Speaker 1: would get some demo time and uh uh and probably 934 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,120 Speaker 1: a studio that the that the label owned, and they 935 01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,240 Speaker 1: say you get a half an hour an hour, play 936 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,680 Speaker 1: as many songs as you can, you know, and that 937 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,680 Speaker 1: was it. And you know overdubbing. We don't have the 938 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,640 Speaker 1: time for overdubbing, you know, just keep let's play songs 939 01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,000 Speaker 1: and until you get you know, and of course you 940 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't get the first take. You would play until you 941 01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,000 Speaker 1: got takes that you wanted them to listen to. And 942 01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,960 Speaker 1: but before you knew it, you've got two or three 943 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,600 Speaker 1: songs and a half hour is gone. So going into 944 01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,600 Speaker 1: the studio without being prepared as kind of an athema 945 01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,080 Speaker 1: to me. You know, you go into your row. You 946 01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:40,920 Speaker 1: know what you're gonna do. Um and uh, sometimes it 947 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:46,360 Speaker 1: will be projects in which the reputation of the band 948 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,520 Speaker 1: might be on the line. I never had any friction 949 01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,400 Speaker 1: with Grand Funk Railroad, but it was pretty much understood 950 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,720 Speaker 1: that this was a reinvention and that I was more 951 01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,480 Speaker 1: or less in charge of it, so uh or I 952 01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,320 Speaker 1: was more or less uh in charge of making sure 953 01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,520 Speaker 1: that it succeeded. You know, they already knew what they 954 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 1: wanted to do, but everything was brand new for them. 955 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: They had new management, new record producer me um, and 956 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,920 Speaker 1: they did a you know, pretty spectacular job of adapting 957 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,480 Speaker 1: to all that and to reinventing themselves in a way. 958 01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,120 Speaker 1: Let's say with Grand Funk raill Roads, didn't you like 959 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,880 Speaker 1: people to be prepared and they were American band? Album? 960 01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,760 Speaker 1: Did they come in with all those songs? Exactly? As 961 01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,400 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, you know, they before we did 962 01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:38,160 Speaker 1: the album, I went out to their you know, I 963 01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:42,240 Speaker 1: went out to Flint and sat with the band and 964 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:46,280 Speaker 1: listen to them and do their rehearsals. And they were 965 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,840 Speaker 1: tight when they came in. I mean, they were a 966 01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:54,560 Speaker 1: live band. Their whole thing was you know that their 967 01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,920 Speaker 1: biggest problem in the studio was they kept trying to 968 01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,440 Speaker 1: be a live band in the studio, so they do 969 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,080 Speaker 1: these long jams. You know, it's not that might be 970 01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,360 Speaker 1: entertaining live, but they weren't cream so they weren't so 971 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:11,320 Speaker 1: much entertaining on record. And so they managed to reinvent 972 01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,520 Speaker 1: themselves as a songwriting unit. You know, you write songs, 973 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:19,280 Speaker 1: you don't write wrong jams, You write songs with versuscorus, bridges, 974 01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,040 Speaker 1: all that stuff. And they set themselves to that and 975 01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,320 Speaker 1: did a good job of it. And they came in 976 01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,080 Speaker 1: and it was all rehearsed. I mean, the story of 977 01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,160 Speaker 1: of the single were American Band, not just the album 978 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:41,680 Speaker 1: is is truly phenomenal because they had the entire project 979 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 1: timed from the first moment we went into the studio 980 01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,600 Speaker 1: until the release of the record. The first thing we 981 01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,880 Speaker 1: did the first day we recorded the track to We're 982 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:57,000 Speaker 1: an American Band. The next the first thing next day, 983 01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,280 Speaker 1: we finished the vocals and overdubs, mixed it, and went 984 01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:05,000 Speaker 1: right into mastering on the second day and mastered the single. 985 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,920 Speaker 1: We didn't even have a B side yet because we 986 01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:15,200 Speaker 1: hadn't recorded anything else yet, and essentially mastered it, sent 987 01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:20,920 Speaker 1: it out to be pressed. And in those days, you 988 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:25,600 Speaker 1: could uh charter record not based on actual sales, but 989 01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:35,000 Speaker 1: based on pre orders and and and also based on 990 01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,760 Speaker 1: ads on radio ads. You know how many people add 991 01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:43,480 Speaker 1: the record? A week after we master the record is 992 01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:48,200 Speaker 1: when it's scheduled to be released, So they goes, it 993 01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:53,640 Speaker 1: goes immediately that plant they're pressing uh singles like mad 994 01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,400 Speaker 1: and sending them out to all the radio stations. The 995 01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:01,439 Speaker 1: next week, the record charts in the top forty. Week 996 01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,720 Speaker 1: after we recorded it, it's charted in the top forty, 997 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:11,280 Speaker 1: and it's on the radio in a week. Okay, Grand 998 01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,680 Speaker 1: Funk was a reviled band. You work with them. They 999 01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:20,160 Speaker 1: have this monstrous single which everyone liked. So two things. 1000 01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,960 Speaker 1: Did you understand it would be such a monstrous single? 1001 01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,960 Speaker 1: And after this success, either you're or Albert's phone must 1002 01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:32,200 Speaker 1: have been ringing off the hook? Uh Part B yes, 1003 01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:39,240 Speaker 1: Part B exactly. Um. I had no idea what to 1004 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,800 Speaker 1: expect when I was going into it except what had 1005 01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,920 Speaker 1: happened previously with Grand Funk Railroad. And they had, you know, 1006 01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:50,040 Speaker 1: two issues. So previously mentioned issue was that they were 1007 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,920 Speaker 1: too jam oriented and not song oriented enough. And I 1008 01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:55,880 Speaker 1: think they were aware of that had to do that. 1009 01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:58,840 Speaker 1: But they were also you know, the issues with their 1010 01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,920 Speaker 1: management were was also an issue with their production because 1011 01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,560 Speaker 1: their manager was also their producer and he was a 1012 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:09,840 Speaker 1: terrible producer, right, Terry Knight. Yeah, that records didn't sound 1013 01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,720 Speaker 1: good and he let all this flab go by. You know, 1014 01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:18,640 Speaker 1: it's just you know, they were there, just not good records. Okay. 1015 01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,920 Speaker 1: The only thing about it from the outside, it looks 1016 01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,640 Speaker 1: like you were the genies that made it happen. You're 1017 01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,600 Speaker 1: telling the story like you were like just the mason 1018 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,480 Speaker 1: putting the ship together. No, they had the whole They 1019 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:34,440 Speaker 1: had a whole plan, a whole scheme for their reinvent 1020 01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,200 Speaker 1: complete scheme for their reinvention when I got involved with them. 1021 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,919 Speaker 1: But if they had a different producer, since the song 1022 01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,240 Speaker 1: was already written, were it was there must have been demos. 1023 01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,440 Speaker 1: Was your version similar to the demo or was it 1024 01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:51,120 Speaker 1: your spin that put it over the top? Possibly my spin. 1025 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:54,400 Speaker 1: I got a lot of complaints in the Keyboard Player 1026 01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,480 Speaker 1: because I said do this, think think think, think, think, think, think, think, 1027 01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,680 Speaker 1: think Think In the cores, he said, but I sound 1028 01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,560 Speaker 1: like as I sounds stupid, But I dink think, think, think, think, 1029 01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,240 Speaker 1: I said, just do it, all right. It's a little 1030 01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,120 Speaker 1: subliminal thing in there, you know, have you paid too 1031 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,040 Speaker 1: much attention to It doesn't work, but it's just a 1032 01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,360 Speaker 1: little thing in there that gives a chorus a little 1033 01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:16,320 Speaker 1: I know that sound absolutely, and I don't know that 1034 01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,240 Speaker 1: another producer would have suggested that or forced the keyboard 1035 01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:25,120 Speaker 1: player to do that. Okay, so now Albert's fielding all 1036 01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,960 Speaker 1: these offers. How do you decide who to work with? 1037 01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:30,559 Speaker 1: And what is Since they're looking to you, what are 1038 01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,080 Speaker 1: you saying back? What are your requirements? I'm not talking 1039 01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,439 Speaker 1: about cash, Like how much time would I need? Does 1040 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,040 Speaker 1: do the songs have to be done? Well? I think 1041 01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:45,720 Speaker 1: that a a signature production that came sometime after that 1042 01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,439 Speaker 1: that actually sort of characterized my production style and changed 1043 01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:53,000 Speaker 1: my whole approach. And that was the New York Dolls. 1044 01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,840 Speaker 1: They were, you know, they were kind of like half 1045 01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,720 Speaker 1: the problem I had. I had other issues which I 1046 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:03,880 Speaker 1: incorporated into my slout, but it all came down to 1047 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,519 Speaker 1: the mixing for the on that record in a way, 1048 01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:12,439 Speaker 1: you know, because uh, capturing the performances was kind of 1049 01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:20,160 Speaker 1: like uh wild life, like if you're a wildlife photographer, 1050 01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, and you're just trying to get that perfect moment, 1051 01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:27,040 Speaker 1: because it's only a moment. There's so much chaos going 1052 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,880 Speaker 1: on all the time that you're never sure when that 1053 01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,479 Speaker 1: moment is gonna be there. There are all kinds of 1054 01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,280 Speaker 1: people hanging around the studio all the time, groupies and 1055 01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:41,160 Speaker 1: journalists and stuff, and the band isn't the most disciplined 1056 01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,000 Speaker 1: band in the world. In other words, it's you get 1057 01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,280 Speaker 1: a couple of takes done and then somebody or a 1058 01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:50,280 Speaker 1: couple of people just won't wander off. They're probably consuming 1059 01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:55,400 Speaker 1: something somewhere in the shadows. It's uh a bit of 1060 01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:59,040 Speaker 1: a carnival atmosphere for the whole thing. But then it 1061 01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,960 Speaker 1: comes down to the mix, integrating everything you've got into 1062 01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:08,880 Speaker 1: something that sounds like a record. And there were two 1063 01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,280 Speaker 1: issues with that. One is the band all wanted to 1064 01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:13,960 Speaker 1: be there while I was mixing. And I've had this 1065 01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,559 Speaker 1: experience before where the band is all there when you're 1066 01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:21,439 Speaker 1: mixing stage right, hands all there and you're mixing. It 1067 01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:25,360 Speaker 1: takes forever, you know, and sometimes it's a completely futile 1068 01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:32,360 Speaker 1: exercise because everybody only hears themselves when you're building a mix. 1069 01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:35,200 Speaker 1: The guitar player only hears the guitar. You know, I 1070 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,519 Speaker 1: think you only here's his boys, the drummer. Only here's 1071 01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,200 Speaker 1: the drums, and they're all whispering in my air. Could 1072 01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,040 Speaker 1: you push me up a little bit please, you know, 1073 01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,880 Speaker 1: push push the vocal up just a little bit more. 1074 01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:48,880 Speaker 1: You know. After a couple of run throughs, you look 1075 01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,519 Speaker 1: down at the console and all of the faders are 1076 01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:53,880 Speaker 1: pinned at the top and you have to start all 1077 01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: over again. So I realized after that that, you know, 1078 01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,840 Speaker 1: having the band in there, having the act at all 1079 01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:02,800 Speaker 1: in the room while you're building a mix is a 1080 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,400 Speaker 1: mistake because they don't hear the whole mix. They only 1081 01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:08,800 Speaker 1: hear like the little bits in the mix, and they 1082 01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,280 Speaker 1: can't pull back far enough to hear the whole thing 1083 01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:14,719 Speaker 1: and it, you know, and that didn't make the record 1084 01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:19,160 Speaker 1: any better than all being there for the mixes, because 1085 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:21,720 Speaker 1: half the time they were in too much of a 1086 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,559 Speaker 1: hurry to really do it properly, Like they have a 1087 01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,639 Speaker 1: gig somewhere in Long Island to get to and say, okay, 1088 01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:30,920 Speaker 1: we gotta wrap session up. Let's you know, we gotta 1089 01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,880 Speaker 1: go to Long Island. And then worst of all, uh, 1090 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:39,120 Speaker 1: they mastered it on what at the time was a 1091 01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:48,559 Speaker 1: relatively antiquated lade uh a non uh. Well, you know, 1092 01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:50,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to get this is a little bit 1093 01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,400 Speaker 1: too technical, but it used to be when you cut 1094 01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,880 Speaker 1: a record, the the what they call the pitch how 1095 01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:01,200 Speaker 1: far into the into the lacquer, the the needle goes 1096 01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:06,280 Speaker 1: was fixed, and it had to be fixed to not 1097 01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:10,120 Speaker 1: create a groove that was so wide that it bumped 1098 01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,120 Speaker 1: into the next group. So the loudest moment in your 1099 01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:16,960 Speaker 1: whole record determined exactly where everything would be, you know, 1100 01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,120 Speaker 1: and and you couldn't compress any more sound than that. 1101 01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,040 Speaker 1: After a while, they got smart and they developed what 1102 01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:29,559 Speaker 1: they call a variable pitch blade, which means you've got 1103 01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:33,320 Speaker 1: as the tape is running through, you've got what you 1104 01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,519 Speaker 1: would call look ahead. You've got ahead that's reading the 1105 01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,840 Speaker 1: sound that's about to come and measuring the volume in it. 1106 01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,320 Speaker 1: And so if there's not a lot of volume, then 1107 01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,920 Speaker 1: you don't have to dig so deep with the blade. 1108 01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:50,040 Speaker 1: Then you can pack more sound into a record by 1109 01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,760 Speaker 1: doing that. So essentially the record could have been could 1110 01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:55,639 Speaker 1: have had a much better sound if they had done 1111 01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,600 Speaker 1: it like a sterling sound, but instead they did it 1112 01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:00,840 Speaker 1: in on the lay that was in the next room 1113 01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,120 Speaker 1: to the mixer. That was like that some label had 1114 01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:08,160 Speaker 1: essentially sold to them because it was obsolete. So the 1115 01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,800 Speaker 1: very first releases of the record, the sound it wasn't 1116 01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:16,080 Speaker 1: what it could have been. Probably later releases sounded better. 1117 01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:21,400 Speaker 1: So why do you call this a signature production? Because 1118 01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:24,880 Speaker 1: that's when I learned never allowed the artists in the 1119 01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,559 Speaker 1: room while you're setting the mix up. You set up 1120 01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,800 Speaker 1: the mix, and then you vide them and say what 1121 01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:32,599 Speaker 1: do you think of this? And they say, okay, fix this, 1122 01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,920 Speaker 1: this and this. I say, okay, go away, I'll fix this, 1123 01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,439 Speaker 1: this and this. Then come back and listen to it, 1124 01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,840 Speaker 1: because it's hard enough for me to retain my objectivity 1125 01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:44,640 Speaker 1: listening to this dozens of times. You're not going to 1126 01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,840 Speaker 1: do a better job than I. It's like when you 1127 01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:48,640 Speaker 1: know this is a minor version, when Tom says I 1128 01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,479 Speaker 1: need you to hear this record, and they want to 1129 01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,519 Speaker 1: sit there while you listen to it, It's like, no, 1130 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:54,880 Speaker 1: I gotta listen to it alone, you know, on my 1131 01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,639 Speaker 1: own time. Well, it's partly that, you know, I don't 1132 01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,360 Speaker 1: want people, you know, yelling, chattering and it back to 1133 01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,360 Speaker 1: me about what's going on while I'm trying to focus 1134 01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:05,599 Speaker 1: on the sound. Yeah, you gotta get in the zone. 1135 01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:09,479 Speaker 1: But did you also mean that that record open more 1136 01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:15,280 Speaker 1: production doors? Oh? Not really, yeah, because I mean that 1137 01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,200 Speaker 1: record I have the early version I saw the band 1138 01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:19,799 Speaker 1: because there was a lot of hype on the record. 1139 01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,040 Speaker 1: You know, I might say, and you might disagree, that 1140 01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,280 Speaker 1: a lot of your records are known for a lot 1141 01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,559 Speaker 1: of high end, which you know, more of an am 1142 01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:34,360 Speaker 1: record sound that as opposed to the stereo UH sound, 1143 01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,880 Speaker 1: more of a compressed sound. Is that something that rings 1144 01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,880 Speaker 1: a bell or you say, no fucking way. I don't 1145 01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:47,559 Speaker 1: know that it's it's the same for all records, but 1146 01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:56,479 Speaker 1: I do like to make records that are full spectrum. UH. 1147 01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,640 Speaker 1: There's also the question of what are people actually listening 1148 01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:08,439 Speaker 1: to the music on UH? And nowadays it's like there 1149 01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,160 Speaker 1: is no target. You know, there's no actual target anymore. 1150 01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,479 Speaker 1: People be listening on the crappiest earbuds they can find, 1151 01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:20,400 Speaker 1: or they might be listening with you know, new five 1152 01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:29,599 Speaker 1: fifty dollar Apple phones, which mystifies me. But the audience 1153 01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:34,200 Speaker 1: doesn't care about the sound for the most part. I 1154 01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:38,160 Speaker 1: mean maybe some audiophiles and the audience might care about 1155 01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:42,000 Speaker 1: the sound. But you know, ever since beats by Dr 1156 01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:48,760 Speaker 1: Dre you know, uh, branded distortion as a product. You know, 1157 01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,720 Speaker 1: you completely blow out the low end and suddenly, you know, 1158 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,160 Speaker 1: people are like, wow, you know, I'm hearing something that 1159 01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:58,639 Speaker 1: I've never heard before, that's not supposed to be there, 1160 01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:03,839 Speaker 1: you know. And so there is no actual target anymore 1161 01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,680 Speaker 1: for sound. You know, it's whatever you're mixing on to 1162 01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:08,400 Speaker 1: make it sound as good as it can on the 1163 01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:12,719 Speaker 1: on the stuff that you've depended on all this time. 1164 01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,080 Speaker 1: But you know, as far as the high or low end, 1165 01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,760 Speaker 1: it probably has to do with the equipment that I 1166 01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:22,400 Speaker 1: prefer to mix on, but also that I like to 1167 01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:26,519 Speaker 1: hear those sounds, you know, I like to I like 1168 01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:30,000 Speaker 1: to hear that really high ting on the bells, you know, 1169 01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:33,880 Speaker 1: if there are bells in there, you know. Uh, I 1170 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,160 Speaker 1: like to hear the low end as well. And the 1171 01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,800 Speaker 1: biggest problem with my records historically has been when we 1172 01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:43,120 Speaker 1: go to master them, they're too long, and that means 1173 01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,760 Speaker 1: that the very low end has to get rolled off, 1174 01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,679 Speaker 1: and that's why they sound more toppy than a lot 1175 01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,559 Speaker 1: of records. It has mostly to do with you know, 1176 01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,120 Speaker 1: the LP raw when we had to get them onto 1177 01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:57,040 Speaker 1: vinyl and the things that we had to do in 1178 01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,639 Speaker 1: order to fit them. So we usually have to add 1179 01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:09,000 Speaker 1: comp scian during the mastering to keep peaks from uh uh, 1180 01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,639 Speaker 1: essentially determining you know, the maximum top end and then 1181 01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,840 Speaker 1: everything I'm gonna be lower than that, and that, you know, 1182 01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:19,720 Speaker 1: in terms of that variable pitch thing, if you know 1183 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,679 Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. Now are you a fan 1184 01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:24,920 Speaker 1: of digital or you more of an analog guy? And 1185 01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,840 Speaker 1: you talk about equipment, what type of equipment do you 1186 01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,400 Speaker 1: like to use? Well, I'm you know, I'm not a 1187 01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:32,240 Speaker 1: fan either way. I just have to say that everything 1188 01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,639 Speaker 1: has becomes so much easier, and we have so many 1189 01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,200 Speaker 1: more possibilities in the digital realm than we ever did 1190 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:44,320 Speaker 1: in the analog realm. Uh. Just a very simple process 1191 01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:48,320 Speaker 1: of making a backup of something, you know, which was 1192 01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:51,080 Speaker 1: a rare thing. You know, not many studios actually made 1193 01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:54,880 Speaker 1: backups of the tapes that you made, particularly full twenty 1194 01:17:54,920 --> 01:18:00,720 Speaker 1: four track backups. Um, It's expensive and time consuming, and 1195 01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,000 Speaker 1: so people didn't do it that often. And then you 1196 01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:06,240 Speaker 1: have some accident that's completely ruined your master you know, 1197 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:11,400 Speaker 1: because it's analog, you know, uh, anything that was mastered 1198 01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:14,799 Speaker 1: on a certain kind of tape previous to a certain 1199 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:19,800 Speaker 1: date suffers from this disease called sticky shed, which is 1200 01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:22,240 Speaker 1: if you went back to the original tapes, all of 1201 01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:27,799 Speaker 1: the oxide starts falling off of them, you know. Whereas digitally, whatever, 1202 01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, whatever Neil Young finds wrong with it, at 1203 01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,839 Speaker 1: least you can make a carbon copy of whatever you've got. 1204 01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,040 Speaker 1: You know, you can make infinite carbon copies, and they 1205 01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,360 Speaker 1: don't take a fraction of the time that it takes 1206 01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:46,360 Speaker 1: to make an analog copy. So in terms of the convenience, 1207 01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,679 Speaker 1: you know, this laptop that I'm talking to you on now, 1208 01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,320 Speaker 1: that's my studio, and everything that I've ever needed is 1209 01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,639 Speaker 1: inside is inside it right now. And there's a MacBook Pro, 1210 01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,040 Speaker 1: yes it is. Oh okay. How did you get so 1211 01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:05,559 Speaker 1: into computers when I was very young? Well, I guess 1212 01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:07,360 Speaker 1: there's two reasons. One is I grew up in a 1213 01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:11,759 Speaker 1: household that was my dad was an engineer at DuPont, 1214 01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:17,519 Speaker 1: and so I was tech comfy. Uh. My dad knew 1215 01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,640 Speaker 1: how to do all those things, so I expected that 1216 01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,960 Speaker 1: that was a realm of knowledge that I should eventually inherit. 1217 01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:28,160 Speaker 1: You know. He had the big tool bench and the 1218 01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:32,160 Speaker 1: craftsman LAIDs, you know, and all the tools and he 1219 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:36,040 Speaker 1: knew how to do schematic circuits and that sort of thing, 1220 01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:41,120 Speaker 1: So there was a comfort level with technology. Uh. And 1221 01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:43,920 Speaker 1: also I had, you know, a particular interest, and it 1222 01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:47,840 Speaker 1: kind of started and might have started when I saw 1223 01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:54,600 Speaker 1: Forbidden Planet and Robbie the robot, and I thought, I 1224 01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:58,519 Speaker 1: want one of those. Kids are bullying me all the time, 1225 01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:04,800 Speaker 1: and I want one of those. Yeah, and so uh, 1226 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:07,559 Speaker 1: I realized eventually, well, if you build one of those, 1227 01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,160 Speaker 1: who's got to have a brain, some kind of a brain, 1228 01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,960 Speaker 1: and computers are electronic brains. And so about at the 1229 01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:19,839 Speaker 1: age of nine or ten, I'm started studying uh digital 1230 01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:28,479 Speaker 1: electronics or you know, uh logic essentially logic gates and 1231 01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,720 Speaker 1: things like that. I don't know if you know about this, 1232 01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,360 Speaker 1: but they've got hands and oars and all the stuff. 1233 01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,040 Speaker 1: Things at the bit left, things at the one bit level. 1234 01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,519 Speaker 1: And I started studying at them when I was really young. 1235 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:44,800 Speaker 1: Realized that a lot of it ran on alternate number systems. 1236 01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:49,200 Speaker 1: So I began to all understand, you know, base eight, 1237 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, Base sixteen, based twelve, whatever the odd you know, 1238 01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:57,519 Speaker 1: different number systems might be. So when I got to 1239 01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:00,400 Speaker 1: the new math in high school, I was a Senate. 1240 01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:02,559 Speaker 1: You know, none of the other kids knew what they 1241 01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:06,960 Speaker 1: were talking about when they said, okay, eight nine A, B, C, 1242 01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,599 Speaker 1: D E F. Wait a minute with how does that work? 1243 01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:15,240 Speaker 1: I totally rocked it. So when I got to high school, 1244 01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:19,080 Speaker 1: I was either going to be I was either going 1245 01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:20,880 Speaker 1: to go to tech school and learn to be a 1246 01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:24,720 Speaker 1: computer programmer, or go to no school at all and 1247 01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:29,080 Speaker 1: be a musician. Unfortunately for me, I got into a 1248 01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,960 Speaker 1: band and became a musician, and that later in life 1249 01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,840 Speaker 1: afforded me the time to learn how to program computers. Okay, 1250 01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:39,599 Speaker 1: when do you know the personal computer era really starts turning? 1251 01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,680 Speaker 1: The decade leaksa these early eighties. When did you get 1252 01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:47,439 Speaker 1: a personal computer? I got every personal computer that was 1253 01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:51,160 Speaker 1: ever offered, got very little out of most of them, 1254 01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:53,920 Speaker 1: but I got everyone. I got an out I got 1255 01:21:54,000 --> 01:22:00,599 Speaker 1: an outre kit, an Alter E O eight kit, which 1256 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,799 Speaker 1: you had to build, you know, side of the board 1257 01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:08,160 Speaker 1: and everything. The only way you could communicate with it 1258 01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:13,040 Speaker 1: was through a teletype with a tape reader, the paper 1259 01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:15,240 Speaker 1: tape reader on it, paper tape with a bunch of 1260 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:18,519 Speaker 1: little holes. To program it, you had to boot it up, 1261 01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:21,240 Speaker 1: you powered it, and then you went through this hole, 1262 01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:25,280 Speaker 1: little sequence of switching these micro switches on and off 1263 01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:29,840 Speaker 1: in a very particular sequence, which was the bootstrap, and 1264 01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,599 Speaker 1: that would make it able to read the tape reader, 1265 01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:37,960 Speaker 1: the paper tape reader, which would then reading a whole 1266 01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:41,400 Speaker 1: program which would allow you to have a really blocky 1267 01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,560 Speaker 1: picture of what looks like liquid going into a Martini 1268 01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:52,600 Speaker 1: glass and super low risk, and that whole process to 1269 01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:56,519 Speaker 1: take you like fift twenty minutes to do that. Then 1270 01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,839 Speaker 1: I got, you know, I remember I got a pet computer, 1271 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,640 Speaker 1: which was a thing that looked like you know it, 1272 01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,040 Speaker 1: It looked like kind of like almost like an Apple 1273 01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:06,800 Speaker 1: two on the bottom. But then I had a head 1274 01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:11,040 Speaker 1: on it, like a little head, and I imagined teaching 1275 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:13,760 Speaker 1: it to roll around, you know, programming, so we could 1276 01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:17,160 Speaker 1: roll around on wheels. I never quite got that far, 1277 01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:21,719 Speaker 1: and things never got really productive until the Apple two plus, 1278 01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:27,000 Speaker 1: because then you had a real programming language. All you 1279 01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,120 Speaker 1: had did was turn it on and it came up 1280 01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:34,080 Speaker 1: ready to take your commands. Uh. It had color of 1281 01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,519 Speaker 1: a sort. It was a really bizarre way to put 1282 01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:41,160 Speaker 1: color on the screen. Um. And when I got it, 1283 01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,479 Speaker 1: I took a year off from touring and learned how 1284 01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:47,040 Speaker 1: to program and then the end of it, I knew 1285 01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:52,519 Speaker 1: how to program what they call a simpler language, which 1286 01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,360 Speaker 1: is talking to the computer. And the only language is 1287 01:23:55,520 --> 01:24:01,880 Speaker 1: understands two fifty six commands and that's it. Okay, the 1288 01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,120 Speaker 1: number two fifty six is that based on the chip. 1289 01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:07,360 Speaker 1: And then they became more commands. That's sixteen six team 1290 01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,479 Speaker 1: bit number. Each number with be like this number might 1291 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:12,479 Speaker 1: you know, might be oh one or something like that, 1292 01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:17,720 Speaker 1: and it means put the next eight bits into the accumulator. 1293 01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,479 Speaker 1: The next one would be add these eight bits to 1294 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:28,200 Speaker 1: the accumulator. The next one would be put the accumulator 1295 01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:34,040 Speaker 1: into the address specified by the next two bits. It's 1296 01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,559 Speaker 1: the lowest level that you can possibly get to, well 1297 01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,960 Speaker 1: practically get to. Then you became yeah, you became a 1298 01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:45,200 Speaker 1: big Amiga guy with a toaster, right. Ah. Yeah. I 1299 01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:47,840 Speaker 1: was never into the Amigo much until I got into 1300 01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:52,000 Speaker 1: the video toaster. And that was really not a relationship 1301 01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:54,920 Speaker 1: with the machine. It was a relationship with the company 1302 01:24:54,960 --> 01:25:00,519 Speaker 1: that made the video toaster. And uh, there's a uh. 1303 01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:03,120 Speaker 1: I was always into the video graphics, always wanted to 1304 01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:08,559 Speaker 1: do a video that was all computer graphics, but it 1305 01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:12,920 Speaker 1: was not practical financially for me. At the time. And 1306 01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:15,040 Speaker 1: then I went to the biggest computer graphics show in 1307 01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:19,320 Speaker 1: the world. It's called cigarette Special Interest Group for Graphics 1308 01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:25,439 Speaker 1: of the International Engineering whatever it is Society, and I 1309 01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,360 Speaker 1: saw the video toaster for the first time, running inside 1310 01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,479 Speaker 1: and Amiga, and I thought, wow, I could afford that. 1311 01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:37,920 Speaker 1: So I bought three, thinking, you know, it would be 1312 01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,439 Speaker 1: enough for me to do my computer video. And I 1313 01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:42,920 Speaker 1: realized that, you know, once I got a start event, 1314 01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:46,240 Speaker 1: it's gonna take me a year to do with three computers. 1315 01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,439 Speaker 1: So I sent what I had to new Tech, the 1316 01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:52,320 Speaker 1: company that made the video toaster, and they said, wow, 1317 01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:53,760 Speaker 1: this is good. If you can make it finish, the 1318 01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,240 Speaker 1: whole thing would be a great demo for the video toaster. 1319 01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:01,920 Speaker 1: So they sent me thirty video toasters and I rented 1320 01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,040 Speaker 1: it off the space and saw Celito and send them 1321 01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:07,439 Speaker 1: all up and set them to work, and sneaker netted 1322 01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:10,439 Speaker 1: them because there was no networking at the time for them. 1323 01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:13,599 Speaker 1: Sneaker net in other words, put a big fat hard 1324 01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:18,519 Speaker 1: drive connected up to the computer, fill it up, take 1325 01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:20,760 Speaker 1: it off, and put another computer hard drive on there. 1326 01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:23,840 Speaker 1: Take the hard drive that you filled up, and write 1327 01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:27,240 Speaker 1: all those frames out to a video disc recorder. Then 1328 01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:29,559 Speaker 1: wiped the drive and start all over again. And then 1329 01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,360 Speaker 1: it only took me a month to do Well, a 1330 01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:34,880 Speaker 1: month is better than a year. But you said you 1331 01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,280 Speaker 1: you said you had an actual business. What did that 1332 01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:41,639 Speaker 1: business look like with deliverables, etcetera. Well, it never turned 1333 01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:44,679 Speaker 1: into a real business. Who was a partnership with new Tech. 1334 01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:48,880 Speaker 1: Once I've finished, Once I've finished, changed myself, which was 1335 01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,439 Speaker 1: the song that I did the video for. They flew 1336 01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:53,840 Speaker 1: me out to which I saw Kansas, which is where 1337 01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:59,120 Speaker 1: they were centered at the time, no longer and uh 1338 01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:03,439 Speaker 1: showed me around the place everything, and they and the 1339 01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:06,280 Speaker 1: next morning I was gonna fly home, they took me 1340 01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,559 Speaker 1: out to a dinner for breakfast and said, would you 1341 01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,360 Speaker 1: like to start a studio and we'll bankroll the studio, 1342 01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:14,240 Speaker 1: and what you'll do with the studio is help us 1343 01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,160 Speaker 1: develop the software, you know, help us push it along 1344 01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:21,719 Speaker 1: and create demos for the software, and hopefully ultimately become 1345 01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:24,280 Speaker 1: a business. So we did a lot of the former, 1346 01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:26,759 Speaker 1: button it was never able to do the latter because 1347 01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,720 Speaker 1: we were in Sausalito. We were not in l A 1348 01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:33,719 Speaker 1: or New York, you know, and most people were doing 1349 01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,639 Speaker 1: their business in those hubs. Okay, So you talk about, 1350 01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:41,439 Speaker 1: you know, leaving Saucelito for Hawaii, and about all the 1351 01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:45,360 Speaker 1: investment bankers as opposed to the engineers. Did you also 1352 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,519 Speaker 1: burn out on the scene. I mean, for those of 1353 01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:49,960 Speaker 1: us who lived through it, the Beatles and what came 1354 01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,559 Speaker 1: after was a huge left turner right, depending on which 1355 01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:54,639 Speaker 1: direction you want to view it from. What had come 1356 01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,280 Speaker 1: before the computer revolution which started for people like you 1357 01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:01,120 Speaker 1: and around, you know, just before nine eighty and then 1358 01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:04,920 Speaker 1: the average person caught on in or six with a 1359 01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:08,080 Speaker 1: O L the Internet, And then it ended like five 1360 01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,040 Speaker 1: or seven years ago. Do you are you still as 1361 01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,200 Speaker 1: addicted or at one point you say, I'm not as 1362 01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:19,280 Speaker 1: excited about it anymore. Well, it certainly has morphed into 1363 01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:24,799 Speaker 1: a different thing. Uh. For one thing, in those days, 1364 01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:31,479 Speaker 1: connectivity was almost always point to point. You know. It's 1365 01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,439 Speaker 1: like you had a modem and someone else had a 1366 01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:38,000 Speaker 1: modem and somehow you could manage to get them connected 1367 01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,960 Speaker 1: and to send some sort of sort of data. I 1368 01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:46,040 Speaker 1: don't know, but it was way before the world of 1369 01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:52,519 Speaker 1: like user interface philosophy, and uh, there certainly was no 1370 01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:56,280 Speaker 1: social media as we know it now. It was a 1371 01:28:56,360 --> 01:29:01,920 Speaker 1: O L kind of you know, pretty tame by comparison. Uh, 1372 01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:08,360 Speaker 1: the Internet was not really a thing yet, um, and 1373 01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:11,960 Speaker 1: I kind of went through the whole evolution of all 1374 01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:16,040 Speaker 1: those things. And I recall going to some of the 1375 01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:25,080 Speaker 1: very first conferences about monetizing the Internet, and it's where 1376 01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:27,600 Speaker 1: I came up with the idea for Patronet. I was 1377 01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:30,879 Speaker 1: at a conference and they're thinking about all the possible 1378 01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:37,160 Speaker 1: ways that we could do commerce, uh using internet technology, 1379 01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:42,960 Speaker 1: and I had proposed the idea of eliminating the middleman 1380 01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:48,200 Speaker 1: that the record label represented. In other words, traditionally, you 1381 01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:50,919 Speaker 1: would get money from the label to make your records, 1382 01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:54,519 Speaker 1: but the label expects to get the money from the 1383 01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:58,120 Speaker 1: people who buy your records. And the people who buy 1384 01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:00,599 Speaker 1: your records don't feel they have a relationship with the label. 1385 01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:03,400 Speaker 1: They feel they have a relationship with you. So the 1386 01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:06,479 Speaker 1: label is the middleman, and the Internet would allow you 1387 01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:10,080 Speaker 1: to eliminate the middleman, go directly to your fans and 1388 01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:15,160 Speaker 1: have them underwrite the production of your records by getting 1389 01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:19,920 Speaker 1: involved in a subscription service. It all seems so obvious now, 1390 01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:22,920 Speaker 1: but no one had thought of that in the old 1391 01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:28,080 Speaker 1: days of the nineties. And so uh, that was when 1392 01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:32,840 Speaker 1: I said about to you know, create this thing to 1393 01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:38,520 Speaker 1: be able to uh build something that was a combination 1394 01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:45,160 Speaker 1: service delivery and social media sort of platform all in one, 1395 01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:49,760 Speaker 1: and ran it for a while and again went up 1396 01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:55,639 Speaker 1: and down. Turned out to be technologically just almost too 1397 01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:59,759 Speaker 1: much to deal with because of lack of standards. Apple 1398 01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:02,519 Speaker 1: and Microsoft we're still battling it out, you know, who's 1399 01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:05,599 Speaker 1: gonna dominate here, Like one would wipe out the other, 1400 01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, And so there was always you had to 1401 01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:11,040 Speaker 1: do things twice. Everything had to be done at least twice, 1402 01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:14,800 Speaker 1: one for Microsoft and one for Apple. But worse than that, 1403 01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,040 Speaker 1: you only had to do it once for Apple, but 1404 01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:20,080 Speaker 1: you'd probably have to do it a dozen times for Microsoft. 1405 01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:23,920 Speaker 1: Because Microsoft didn't make the machines. People built their own machines, 1406 01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:26,479 Speaker 1: and people didn't half the time even on how to 1407 01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:31,200 Speaker 1: work their damn machines. You wind up doing Microsoft's customer service. 1408 01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:35,519 Speaker 1: It was just it was a nightmare. And then you 1409 01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:38,320 Speaker 1: had to say social media component on top of it, 1410 01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:42,080 Speaker 1: and you know, knowing what we know now about people 1411 01:31:42,479 --> 01:31:44,400 Speaker 1: and what they'll say when you can't poke them in 1412 01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:49,080 Speaker 1: the face after saying it, you know, it's just eventually 1413 01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:52,439 Speaker 1: I sort of like gave it up. That doesn't mean 1414 01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:57,360 Speaker 1: that it couldn't work, but you'd have to you don't 1415 01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:00,240 Speaker 1: have to know what you're dealing with upfront and to have, 1416 01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:03,559 Speaker 1: you know, real solutions for them. They can't turn into 1417 01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:07,240 Speaker 1: the cess pool that Facebook has become. Okay, you talk 1418 01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:10,000 Speaker 1: about that, Tess. Well, you've actually the last few years 1419 01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:15,200 Speaker 1: have evidence, uh some political views. What is your political 1420 01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:17,599 Speaker 1: view in the country at this point in time and 1421 01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:20,400 Speaker 1: what responsibility or action do you want to take or 1422 01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:25,519 Speaker 1: not take. Well, I never make an assumptions that I'm 1423 01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,799 Speaker 1: a celebrity. I know that I have my fan base, 1424 01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,519 Speaker 1: and I've been dealing with these issues amongst my fan base. 1425 01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:35,960 Speaker 1: My feeling is that anyone who does anyone who gets 1426 01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:40,200 Speaker 1: upset listening to Tinfoil Hat not really fan anyway. I mean, 1427 01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:43,240 Speaker 1: they don't understand the greater move of what I'm doing. 1428 01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,960 Speaker 1: They just came to hear, Hello, it's me. So if 1429 01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:50,000 Speaker 1: I lose those people, I always lose them. I always 1430 01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:51,760 Speaker 1: lose them if they don't show up for thirty years 1431 01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:54,000 Speaker 1: and I realize I'm not gonna do Hello it's me, 1432 01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:55,920 Speaker 1: And then they said, I'll never buy to take it 1433 01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:59,719 Speaker 1: to this guy again. It's you know, it's just part 1434 01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:02,960 Speaker 1: of you know, it's part of life. I make up 1435 01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:05,479 Speaker 1: for it, as I say, by like gaining younger audience, 1436 01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:07,840 Speaker 1: which you have to do anyway. You know, your old 1437 01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:12,640 Speaker 1: audience is checking out in so many ways, so you 1438 01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,000 Speaker 1: always have to refresh your audience. How how do you 1439 01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:17,840 Speaker 1: do that? You do it by showing interest, you know, 1440 01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:21,400 Speaker 1: and the things that the younger audience is interested in, 1441 01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:25,880 Speaker 1: and being involved with artists at the younger audience is 1442 01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:28,960 Speaker 1: interested in. That's why my last record and the record 1443 01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:34,560 Speaker 1: that I'm working now are aggressive collaborations. It's me introducing 1444 01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:38,400 Speaker 1: myself to new audience with the full realization that my 1445 01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:42,280 Speaker 1: own audience, my own audience is bound to thin out 1446 01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:48,840 Speaker 1: just by natural attrition. So um yeah, just you know, 1447 01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:53,920 Speaker 1: I've been self consciously sort of taking every opportunity I 1448 01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:58,080 Speaker 1: can to work with younger artists and inherit in some 1449 01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:02,920 Speaker 1: small way. They're audience. And you never know nowadays how 1450 01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:06,960 Speaker 1: how these things spread. You know that how a meme 1451 01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:11,519 Speaker 1: gets spread in you know, in any particular way. That's 1452 01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:15,360 Speaker 1: kind of the science of a promotion nowadays. You know, 1453 01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:20,679 Speaker 1: That's why there are Facebook promotion departments trying to figure 1454 01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:24,439 Speaker 1: out how your meme gets spread, What the things that 1455 01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:28,320 Speaker 1: you have to do, you know, to maximize that. Okay. 1456 01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:31,559 Speaker 1: In terms of younger audience, you can work with younger acts. 1457 01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:34,599 Speaker 1: Is there a specific type of sound that you would 1458 01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:42,200 Speaker 1: employ to reach a younger audience? M No, not really no, okay, No, 1459 01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:45,080 Speaker 1: you just want to work with someone who has an audience, 1460 01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:50,080 Speaker 1: whatever sound might be, you know, or someone who could 1461 01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:53,400 Speaker 1: potentially have an audience. You know, I'm not necessarily picky 1462 01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:56,120 Speaker 1: about the size of the of the audience. They could 1463 01:34:56,120 --> 01:34:59,799 Speaker 1: be just starting out. Um, that's fine with me. Okay. 1464 01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:03,880 Speaker 1: So you had a very active production career then it 1465 01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:06,880 Speaker 1: slowed down. What can you tell us about that? And 1466 01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:09,120 Speaker 1: do you have any offers at this date or those 1467 01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:15,439 Speaker 1: dried up? Well? The the production thing, you know is, 1468 01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:19,600 Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's I could say that's like cyclical, 1469 01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:23,479 Speaker 1: whether the kind of producer that I am would ever 1470 01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:27,160 Speaker 1: come back, because it's often reflective of the greater music 1471 01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:31,519 Speaker 1: scene and what's happening out there. When we started being 1472 01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:34,200 Speaker 1: able to certainly when we started being able to pass 1473 01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:40,200 Speaker 1: files around file sharing, you could entertain the possibility of 1474 01:35:40,240 --> 01:35:43,120 Speaker 1: working with people that you wouldn't be able to work 1475 01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:47,600 Speaker 1: with for it simply because of the physical distance. And 1476 01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:51,920 Speaker 1: whatever restrictions that might impose, and so that probably gives 1477 01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:56,439 Speaker 1: people ideas in a well in a way, music has 1478 01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:02,200 Speaker 1: changed a lot, especially in terms of the artists who 1479 01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:08,599 Speaker 1: are uh noteworthy for it. And it isn't necessarily because 1480 01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:12,799 Speaker 1: they are selling records. Records as some are are becoming 1481 01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:20,680 Speaker 1: a somewhat obsolete form, uh, because music isn't just for musicians. 1482 01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:22,519 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who want to be 1483 01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:26,400 Speaker 1: a personality. My brand is me, you know. It isn't 1484 01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:30,920 Speaker 1: any particular thing that I do. I'm the brand, and 1485 01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:34,400 Speaker 1: the brand needs a theme song, So I'm gonna record 1486 01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:37,479 Speaker 1: my own theme song. But the music doesn't mean a 1487 01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:40,280 Speaker 1: whole lot more to me than designing a pair of 1488 01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:44,640 Speaker 1: shoes perhaps, or showing up dressed really crazy at a 1489 01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:48,599 Speaker 1: red carpet event or something like that. The I'm gonna 1490 01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:51,479 Speaker 1: make my money off a merchandise, I'm gonna make my 1491 01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,320 Speaker 1: money off of a commercial. I'm gonna make my money 1492 01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:57,760 Speaker 1: possibly off of a licensing deal for this song. But 1493 01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:00,519 Speaker 1: I'm likely not going to make my money trying to 1494 01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:06,320 Speaker 1: sell records because that time has kind of passed. Well, 1495 01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:09,200 Speaker 1: there are certainly collectors who will buy the vinyl thing, 1496 01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, but most of the royalties, such as they 1497 01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:19,440 Speaker 1: are that are being tracked, are being tracked electronically, you know, Spotify, YouTube, 1498 01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:22,760 Speaker 1: all of the big what are now Apple, all of 1499 01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:26,320 Speaker 1: the big music delivery services. That's where the royalties are 1500 01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,800 Speaker 1: coming from. But they're not the kind of royalties that 1501 01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:32,880 Speaker 1: you would get if you were, you know, selling records 1502 01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:35,920 Speaker 1: the old fashioned way, because the music is so easy 1503 01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:40,160 Speaker 1: to share. It's an advertisement for yourself. It's an advertisement 1504 01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:42,920 Speaker 1: for your concert tickets where you will where you have 1505 01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:45,920 Speaker 1: always made way more money than you did with a 1506 01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:51,280 Speaker 1: recorded artifact. Okay, we grew up in an era where 1507 01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:55,960 Speaker 1: music drove the culture was everything, great burst of creativity 1508 01:37:56,120 --> 01:38:00,760 Speaker 1: and explosive market share, just like they're subsequently was with 1509 01:38:01,439 --> 01:38:06,080 Speaker 1: computers in the internet directly. What do you think of 1510 01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:11,720 Speaker 1: today's music? Not much, not a lot. You know, it's 1511 01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:16,840 Speaker 1: I don't It's like I don't listen to the radio, 1512 01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:20,320 Speaker 1: and I don't listen to you know, popular streams and 1513 01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:22,360 Speaker 1: things like that. I'd like to be a little bit 1514 01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:25,599 Speaker 1: more targeted and what I listened to. But in terms 1515 01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:30,720 Speaker 1: of gauging what is successful in the music business, I mean, 1516 01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:33,640 Speaker 1: there's probably no better gauge than who they allowed to 1517 01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,880 Speaker 1: be musical guests on Saturday Night Live. And I have 1518 01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:40,600 Speaker 1: to say, seventy of the time I have to mute it. 1519 01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:45,439 Speaker 1: I can't listen to it. It's just it's just exactly 1520 01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:48,559 Speaker 1: what I say, is somebody's theme song, you know, And 1521 01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:51,080 Speaker 1: it's just as much as soundtrack because they're shaking their 1522 01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:54,400 Speaker 1: giant ass and the camera as it is listenable music. 1523 01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:58,840 Speaker 1: And so I don't have a lot of hopes at 1524 01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:04,040 Speaker 1: this point for the kind of movement that let's say, 1525 01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:08,680 Speaker 1: even something like grunge represented, you know, where it was 1526 01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:16,639 Speaker 1: more or less a wholesale um rebuke of a way 1527 01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:20,679 Speaker 1: of making records, in a way of writing songs and 1528 01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:24,920 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. Uh, there was I guess 1529 01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:30,320 Speaker 1: the E D M movement that came in the in 1530 01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:36,439 Speaker 1: the twenties and and in to the early tens, but uh, 1531 01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:41,960 Speaker 1: that was something that was kind of always there. That 1532 01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:45,000 Speaker 1: kind of music is always lurking around and dance clubs 1533 01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:48,120 Speaker 1: and things like that. And it became big when festivals 1534 01:39:48,200 --> 01:39:52,479 Speaker 1: became the thing to do, the place to play. Rather 1535 01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:56,080 Speaker 1: than doing your own long, laborious tours, you play summer 1536 01:39:56,160 --> 01:40:01,280 Speaker 1: festivals for hundreds of thousands of people. So and in 1537 01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:03,920 Speaker 1: the end, it's still just marketing, probably for something else 1538 01:40:03,960 --> 01:40:07,040 Speaker 1: besides the music. You get paid an obscene amount of 1539 01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:11,599 Speaker 1: money to play, you know, a big festival, and uh 1540 01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:14,479 Speaker 1: so you don't care so much about making music on 1541 01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:18,479 Speaker 1: individual sales of the song. Okay, In the time you 1542 01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:21,040 Speaker 1: have left, which could be one minute or twenty five 1543 01:40:21,160 --> 01:40:24,400 Speaker 1: years or so, you always say you're learning what would 1544 01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:26,800 Speaker 1: you like to accomplish in this time you have left? 1545 01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:29,439 Speaker 1: Knowing that you always keep the target a little further 1546 01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:32,560 Speaker 1: than achievements. You much have on your mind, things you 1547 01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:38,920 Speaker 1: would like to do. Well, I've filled my plate up 1548 01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:42,120 Speaker 1: pretty well at this particular moment. You know, I don't 1549 01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:45,200 Speaker 1: really have the time to speculate on what I might 1550 01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:51,760 Speaker 1: do after. I know what I'm doing in one I'm 1551 01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:58,360 Speaker 1: getting this, um, I'm getting this virtual show done. I 1552 01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:02,439 Speaker 1: am still working on recording projects. I've got a recording 1553 01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:06,519 Speaker 1: project of my own new collaborations was hopefully will be 1554 01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:10,519 Speaker 1: finished and released sometime this year. We're releasing singles in 1555 01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:16,280 Speaker 1: the meantime. Uh, I've got I'm actually involved in some 1556 01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:20,120 Speaker 1: production as well. I'm involved in a fairly major production 1557 01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,960 Speaker 1: as we speak, which is driving me a little crazy. 1558 01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:27,200 Speaker 1: But uh, because of all the other things that I 1559 01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:29,800 Speaker 1: have to do, And I don't know exactly what the 1560 01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:33,160 Speaker 1: timeline but of that will be, but that's a large 1561 01:41:33,200 --> 01:41:40,000 Speaker 1: thing on my plate as well. So I'm my free 1562 01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:42,800 Speaker 1: time next year, if I have any and I'm allowed to, 1563 01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:46,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to travel to some of those places I 1564 01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:50,120 Speaker 1: like to go to, and then by the fall, by 1565 01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:51,679 Speaker 1: the end of the year, I'll be out on tour 1566 01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:55,560 Speaker 1: again and then home again by next Christmas. Okay, a 1567 01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:59,320 Speaker 1: couple of quick questions. Do you play music like we're 1568 01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:01,639 Speaker 1: talking now, but if we weren't, would you be playing 1569 01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:05,320 Speaker 1: music in the background or generally speaking not? And now 1570 01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:08,000 Speaker 1: I'd be working on music in the background. And how 1571 01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,240 Speaker 1: much in a day are you working on music every day? 1572 01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:13,760 Speaker 1: I do work on music every day, but you'd be 1573 01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:16,040 Speaker 1: surprised how much of it just goes on up here 1574 01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:19,080 Speaker 1: He's pointing to his head. Since we don't have video. 1575 01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:24,000 Speaker 1: I preview, pre visualize almost everything that I do. I 1576 01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:26,559 Speaker 1: don't just like start doing it. I imagine it in 1577 01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:30,639 Speaker 1: as much detail as I can muster before I start 1578 01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:34,719 Speaker 1: to do it. Uh So, like let's say I'm working 1579 01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:37,640 Speaker 1: on a song, I will work on it very intensely 1580 01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:40,679 Speaker 1: for an hour, and then, depending on how I feel, 1581 01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:43,120 Speaker 1: I may take a break and come back to it, 1582 01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:45,760 Speaker 1: or I may move on to something else, Like my 1583 01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:48,720 Speaker 1: brain is too full of that for the moment, and 1584 01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:52,280 Speaker 1: I have to clear it out. Uh. It doesn't take 1585 01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:55,559 Speaker 1: a lot of time actually in front of the computer 1586 01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:59,320 Speaker 1: for me to get a lot done. I have all 1587 01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:04,320 Speaker 1: of the tools that I need immediately accessible to me. UM, 1588 01:43:04,360 --> 01:43:08,960 Speaker 1: and I tend to make the decisions fairly quickly. UM. 1589 01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:11,200 Speaker 1: I tend to you know, if something works for me, 1590 01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:14,719 Speaker 1: I I kind of know it, and if it doesn't work, 1591 01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:18,120 Speaker 1: I will change it right away. So I don't have 1592 01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:20,799 Speaker 1: to spend hours and hours and hours pouring my ears 1593 01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:23,960 Speaker 1: with sound. I think about what I'm gonna do. The 1594 01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:27,120 Speaker 1: music is in my head, and so when I get 1595 01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:29,479 Speaker 1: actually in front of the computer, I'm as productive as 1596 01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:33,200 Speaker 1: I can possibly be. And what musical artists are you 1597 01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:36,120 Speaker 1: a fan of? I've been fans over the years of 1598 01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:38,120 Speaker 1: a lot of musical artists. I'm trying to think of 1599 01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:41,599 Speaker 1: someone you know more recent Vinta. No, I don't need 1600 01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:43,720 Speaker 1: I don't need something to while my audience to show 1601 01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:45,800 Speaker 1: that you're young and hip. But like, what do you 1602 01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:49,400 Speaker 1: what would be your go to records, go to records 1603 01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:51,240 Speaker 1: who well, you know, then it sounds like I'm being 1604 01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:53,720 Speaker 1: too hip, you know, because I might go back and 1605 01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:57,080 Speaker 1: listen to some revel again. You know. Okay, well that's reasonable. 1606 01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,880 Speaker 1: You know. It's that he, you know, Maurice Orrell was 1607 01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:04,240 Speaker 1: such a big influence on the way I hear things harmonically, 1608 01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:09,280 Speaker 1: and you know, I'm still marvel at, you know, the 1609 01:44:09,320 --> 01:44:13,200 Speaker 1: sensibility and the skill behind it. And it's kind of 1610 01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:17,720 Speaker 1: a reminder of what real musicianship is for me. We 1611 01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:22,200 Speaker 1: get so distracted by the personality aspects of what we 1612 01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:27,400 Speaker 1: do because most often, if people know your song, you're 1613 01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:30,280 Speaker 1: somehow going to get in front of their face, you know. 1614 01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:34,719 Speaker 1: And in the old days, you know, people might never 1615 01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:41,400 Speaker 1: know who the genius behind that magnificent performance of of 1616 01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:46,720 Speaker 1: La Valse was, you know. And that's uh something that 1617 01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:49,760 Speaker 1: I you know, it's not that I long not to 1618 01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:52,000 Speaker 1: be in the public eye. I can handle it. I'm 1619 01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:55,400 Speaker 1: used to it. But just the idea of thinking of 1620 01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:58,920 Speaker 1: yourself as a musician, not as a personality, and trying 1621 01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:01,639 Speaker 1: to just get into that head, not think about how 1622 01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:04,040 Speaker 1: the audience is going to respond to it, but think 1623 01:45:04,120 --> 01:45:07,559 Speaker 1: solely about what you want to create, the moment that, 1624 01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:11,000 Speaker 1: the atmosphere, the feeling that you want to create. You 1625 01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:15,000 Speaker 1: dig into yourself, find something that's real in yourself and 1626 01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:19,200 Speaker 1: try and objectivise that and not worry about what the 1627 01:45:19,240 --> 01:45:22,200 Speaker 1: reaction is going to be. And are you doing music 1628 01:45:22,240 --> 01:45:25,080 Speaker 1: all day or are you also a reader streaming TV? 1629 01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:28,280 Speaker 1: I do all kinds of things all day. The reason 1630 01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:34,880 Speaker 1: why I don't take interviews early is because I've I 1631 01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:39,719 Speaker 1: go through a morning exercise, morning brain exercises. I will 1632 01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:44,440 Speaker 1: do as many crossword puzzles as I can find, jigsaw puzzles, sadocus, 1633 01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:48,679 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff just to work my brain out 1634 01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:51,639 Speaker 1: for up to two hours before I do anything serious 1635 01:45:51,720 --> 01:45:56,360 Speaker 1: during the day. Every day, every day. What do you 1636 01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:59,519 Speaker 1: what's the best crossword puzzle for you? Well, I mean 1637 01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,160 Speaker 1: the most challenging, the best. I guess it would be 1638 01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:07,680 Speaker 1: like Saturday New York Times. And I actually actually have 1639 01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:12,360 Speaker 1: fans and friends who are cruciverbalists, so I am somewhat 1640 01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:16,320 Speaker 1: into that world. Okay. And then the rest of the day, 1641 01:46:16,479 --> 01:46:18,880 Speaker 1: once you're you know, up and running or do you 1642 01:46:18,920 --> 01:46:21,400 Speaker 1: watch streaming TV? Do you read books? If it's time 1643 01:46:21,479 --> 01:46:23,840 Speaker 1: to do something like this, I'll do this, I'll be 1644 01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:27,080 Speaker 1: reading books, I'll be learning something. I have to do graphics, 1645 01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:30,720 Speaker 1: I have to do video. I did six hour long 1646 01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:34,679 Speaker 1: episodes of a video kind of lifestyle show, and each 1647 01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:37,719 Speaker 1: episode of that took me probably at least four days 1648 01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:42,160 Speaker 1: to put together. So I'd be doing video. I you know, 1649 01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:46,439 Speaker 1: I am learning things. I spent in the first six 1650 01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:50,559 Speaker 1: months almost every day doing computer code, so it could 1651 01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:54,400 Speaker 1: be anything. You know, It's not not any particular thing. 1652 01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:57,519 Speaker 1: And if it's like a Saturday, we have big family 1653 01:46:57,560 --> 01:47:01,320 Speaker 1: meals and I'm ex spent half the day just wow. 1654 01:47:01,400 --> 01:47:05,080 Speaker 1: You good cook? Yes, I am. And when your go 1655 01:47:05,240 --> 01:47:08,360 Speaker 1: to dish or cuisine would be well, I have several 1656 01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:10,280 Speaker 1: dishes that I can do. I can cook you a 1657 01:47:10,280 --> 01:47:15,479 Speaker 1: mean duck with nice crispy skin. Crab risotto is a 1658 01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:21,080 Speaker 1: good one. Uh yeah, I can cook. On that note, Todd, 1659 01:47:21,160 --> 01:47:23,160 Speaker 1: thanks so much. We've delved into a lot of topics. 1660 01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:27,280 Speaker 1: You're really a thinker and you're analytical. Uh. Your analysis 1661 01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:29,599 Speaker 1: of certain things is the most interesting. Thanks for taking 1662 01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:33,200 Speaker 1: this time my pleasure, Bob, and I'm sure we'll be 1663 01:47:33,280 --> 01:47:36,160 Speaker 1: doing this again sometime. Okay, I look forward to it. 1664 01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:38,759 Speaker 1: If you're up to it, you know, It's funny because 1665 01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,080 Speaker 1: I feel some of this stuff you've been asked so 1666 01:47:41,160 --> 01:47:44,080 Speaker 1: many times. I'm wary of asking it because you know 1667 01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:45,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people say, oh, you know, it's like 1668 01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:48,000 Speaker 1: play your hit. They don't want to do it. But 1669 01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's always new things to be uncovered. If 1670 01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:54,760 Speaker 1: you're not tired of talking about these subjects, well, you 1671 01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:57,360 Speaker 1: know there is a whole lot new, but you know 1672 01:47:57,800 --> 01:48:02,080 Speaker 1: there is what's happening now, and certainly the background helps 1673 01:48:02,080 --> 01:48:05,160 Speaker 1: to inform it. So I don't mind doing it. Okay, 1674 01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:07,320 Speaker 1: till next time. This is Bob left six