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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Rafael Sadiq is one of the great R &

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Speaker 1: B writers and producers of the last 30 years. He

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Speaker 1: started out writing and playing bass in the group Tony

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Speaker 1: Tony Tony with his brother Dwayne Wiggins on guitar. The

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Speaker 1: Tonys had an amazing four-album run from 88 through 96,

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Speaker 1: with hit singles like It Never Rains in Southern California,

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Speaker 1: Feels Good, Anniversary, and If I Had No Lou. Since

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Speaker 1: the group's disbanded, Raphael's released five solo albums, starting with

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Speaker 1: 2002's Instant Vintage. His most recent, Jimmy Lee, is a

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Speaker 1: collection of very personal songs about the traumas he and

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Speaker 1: his family experienced growing up in Oakland, California. But Raphael's

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Speaker 1: also done some amazing work behind the board. He's produced

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Speaker 1: and written for the likes of D'Angelo, TLC, Mary J. Blige, Solange, Earth,

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Speaker 1: Wind & Fire, and just recently worked on a handful

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Speaker 1: of songs on Beyonce's Cowboy Carter album. That's all in

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Speaker 1: addition to his work as an Academy Award-nominated film composer.

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Speaker 1: It was a real honor to speak with Rafael Sadiq

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Speaker 1: from his studio in Los Angeles about some of the

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Speaker 1: incredible work he's done the last handful of years with

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Speaker 1: Beyoncé and Solange, breaking down his collaboration with D'Angelo on

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Speaker 1: the classic track Lady, plus discussing the underrated influence of

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Speaker 1: Sly Stone bassist Larry Graham on a whole generation of

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Speaker 1: musicians coming up in the Bay Area. This is Broken Record.

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Speaker 1: Line of notes for the digital age. I'm Justin Richmond.

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Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Rafael Sadiq. To see the full

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Speaker 1: video version of this episode, go to youtube.com slash broken

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Speaker 1: record podcast. Man, Rafael, thanks so much for having us.

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Speaker 1: You're beautiful. I mean, this is one of the, I've

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Speaker 1: been to a lot of studios. This is one of

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Speaker 1: the best.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, this is where it

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Speaker 2: happens for me.

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Speaker 1: How long have you been here?

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Speaker 2: I've been here 20 i think 20 years now working

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Speaker 2: out of here working out here for 20 years yeah wow.

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Speaker 1: So that would have been i guess ray ray maybe

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Speaker 1: after ray ray you started doing your projects here.

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Speaker 2: No i think i did ray ray here so maybe

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Speaker 2: it was longer wow was it.

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Speaker 1: Not instant vintage though instant vintage.

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Speaker 2: Oh so maybe i didn't i forget which song which

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Speaker 2: album came first now but i think i did ray

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Speaker 2: ray was second So I did the last song on

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Speaker 2: Instant Vintage. There's a hidden track at the end of

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Speaker 2: every record that I do.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So at the end of Instant Vintage, they gave me

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Speaker 2: the keys to the studio. And so I came in.

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Speaker 2: I had an MP-60, and I just dropped the drum

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Speaker 2: machine on the desk, and I wrote the very last

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Speaker 2: song to Instant Vintage.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. I want, I want to ask you about

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Speaker 1: that too. How did that tradition start? Because actually I

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Speaker 1: met one of my favorite cuts of yours is the

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Speaker 1: hidden track on stone rolling.

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Speaker 2: Is that with Larry Graham?

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Speaker 1: It's the one with Larry Graham.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We did that right here.

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Speaker 1: Really?

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Speaker 2: It's recorded right where you're sitting. Me and me and

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Speaker 2: Larry was here right here. Um, Larry's a, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's my, my guy. I've, Raised in the

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Speaker 2: same neighborhood in Oakland that he lived in. So we

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Speaker 2: met through some people, and I invited him to the

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Speaker 2: studio and said, I got this song. It was hard

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Speaker 2: for me to actually work around him to play bass.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like I can't really play bass when he's around.

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Speaker 1: Really? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He's the only person I'm around that I lock up

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Speaker 2: when he comes around.

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Speaker 1: Kind of like playing guitar in front of Hendrix or something. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's like that level of, you know. Yeah. Hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine because Hendrix isn't here, but like, you know, Larry's

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Speaker 1: still around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Larry's around. He's still great.

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Speaker 1: Did you play bass on that?

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Speaker 2: Or was that him? Oh, no, that's Larry.

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Speaker 1: That's what I thought because it really has that. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know if you were going for that.

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Speaker 2: No, he's a big boy. He plays big boy bass.

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Speaker 2: You notice when he's playing the difference between just the years,

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Speaker 2: you can feel like his... something in his fingers is

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Speaker 2: just different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He sounded great too. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: He made me sound like I was like a chipmunk

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Speaker 2: when I, when my voice comes on and then his

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Speaker 2: voice comes on, he.

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Speaker 1: Just came on.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: But it has that age. Like you're talking about. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You can't, you can't, I've been around a couple of

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Speaker 2: singers and, and that's what happened. I've, I've, I've sang

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Speaker 2: around Charlie Wilson and, And I was singing his song,

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Speaker 2: and he came in on the other part of it,

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Speaker 2: and it just sounded like apples and oranges.

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Speaker 1: What was the occasion for that?

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Speaker 2: It was some award show, and it was a lot

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Speaker 2: of different artists singing. And Charlie was singing, and we

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Speaker 2: did Outstanding. I think we did a couple songs. But

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Speaker 2: he came on, and you could just tell the age,

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Speaker 2: the years that he put into it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And Stevie. Stevie. I've sang around Stevie before. Then I

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Speaker 2: heard him sing like right after me. And it was

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Speaker 2: just sounding like, I was like, wow, this is those pipes,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's just those years, you know, like that

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Speaker 2: working that muscle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And this is really strong.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if you'll ever get there

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Speaker 1: by the way, either. Cause you saying too much shape, man, you're,

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Speaker 1: you're in too good a shape to really ever let

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Speaker 1: your pipes ever shown these signs.

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Speaker 2: But I think they're in shape. They're like in vocal shape.

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Speaker 1: There's two different types of shapes.

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Speaker 2: Your lungs, your pipes, they can hold notes longer than anybody.

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Speaker 2: CeeLo Green is another person who can... I watched him

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Speaker 2: sing Lovely Day one time, and he went, A lovely day.

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Speaker 2: And he was looking at me. I was in Chicago

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Speaker 2: at House of Blues, and I was right above him.

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Speaker 2: And he said, A lovely day. And he was just

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Speaker 2: looking at me, and it was going forever. And I

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Speaker 2: was going, how does he do that? So I just

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Speaker 2: think that's those... those pipes, you know, those age pipes of, of,

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Speaker 2: you know, working that muscle.

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Speaker 1: And CeeLo too, just from, I mean, and Stevie too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Stevie has, of course, something like special, but

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Speaker 1: CeeLo just has just such a, um, just born with

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Speaker 1: some pipes that are just fascinating.

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Speaker 2: He's a, he's a one of a kind. We always

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Speaker 2: see each other in Atlanta somewhere and say, we're going

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Speaker 2: to work together. That's one person I do. It'll be

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Speaker 2: easy for me to work with because he's so soulful

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Speaker 2: and I love soulful music too. So, um, I'm waiting

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Speaker 2: for that matchup. That's the perfect matchup for me.

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Speaker 1: You should definitely do that. You should, you should do

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Speaker 1: a full Larry project too, man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be, that'll be cool. I mean, we, I

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Speaker 2: used to, I used to, when those records used to

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Speaker 2: come out in my neighborhood, it would be a line

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Speaker 2: in front of the store to buy, um, Grand Central

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Speaker 2: Station's records. It was, cause he was more like a

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Speaker 2: superhero to, to most in Oakland. I don't know about

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Speaker 2: everywhere else, but, You know, I would see people lining

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Speaker 2: up at this store called, a record store called House

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Speaker 2: of Music. It was one of the Tony's records.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: House of Music. I titled the album House of Music

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Speaker 2: because of that store.

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Speaker 1: But I was just close. It was not that long ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. And I was too young to go in

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Speaker 2: that store in the beginning because, you know, they had

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Speaker 2: all these black posters, you know, the black suede posters

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Speaker 2: with black pussy and pussy incense.

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Speaker 1: Pam Grier looking.

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Speaker 2: You know, like, Teddy's Everywhere, incense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when you go in the store and

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Speaker 2: you're like eight years old, you're like, Oh wow. But

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Speaker 2: then you see like, you know, James Brown soundtracks, uh,

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Speaker 2: black Caesar, black Caesar, you know? So yeah, but Larry,

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Speaker 2: it was definitely a line. So when, now when I'm

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Speaker 2: working or something and I'm talking to somebody, rest in peace, John, um, John,

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Speaker 2: he was always talking about, um, John Singleton about, um,

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Speaker 2: Comic books. And so I was never privy to being

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Speaker 2: in those conversations about comic books because I wasn't into

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Speaker 2: comic books. My comic books was Larry Graham, Grand Central Station, Parliament, Funkadelic.

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Speaker 1: The Funkadelic records.

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Speaker 2: The album covers.

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Speaker 1: Pedro Bell did all that artwork.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. That's interesting. I wonder because Larry Graham, I

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Speaker 1: spent some time living in Oakland. And so I happen

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Speaker 1: to know how much love the Bay has for Larry.

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Speaker 1: It does feel like maybe elsewhere Bootsy is kind of.

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Speaker 2: The, the, the one that gets, but Larry's.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Larry's, Larry's Steph Curry in Oakland. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Sure. That's a great, that's a great comparison. He

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Speaker 1: really is. He really is. Was that, was he your

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Speaker 1: inspiration to pick up the bass?

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Speaker 2: My inspiration to pick up the bass came from, um,

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Speaker 2: my neighborhood. It was so many bass players and guitar

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Speaker 2: players and, uh, um, bass, he was the biggest influence

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Speaker 2: once I picked it up because he did things that

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Speaker 2: nobody was doing. And so you, if you couldn't do

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Speaker 2: what he was doing, you couldn't really walk into like

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Speaker 2: a jam session and jump on the drums because the

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Speaker 2: drummer was going to challenge you, you know, and see like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know how to play a pile. And

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Speaker 2: if you didn't know how to play pile, then you

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Speaker 2: couldn't be in the room. So he was the bar.

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Speaker 2: He's always the bar. Another guy in Oakland to play

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Speaker 2: for the Hawkins family, Walter Hawkins and Edwin Hawkins.

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Speaker 1: Oh, happy day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Daniel Hawkins, Lynette Hawkins, Tremaine Hawkins. But the guy

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Speaker 2: is Joel Smith. He was the other Steph Curry in Oakland.

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Speaker 2: I have a huge piece of art that I had somebody.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: In there. With the bass?

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Speaker 1: I was wondering, is that Stanley, like a young Stanley Clark?

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Speaker 1: I've never seen him with a P bass.

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Speaker 2: That's Joel Smith.

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Speaker 1: Joel Smith.

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Speaker 2: He's an amazing drummer. He was an amazing drummer and

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Speaker 2: an amazing bass player. I looked up to him more

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Speaker 2: than anybody.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because I almost was going to ask you

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Speaker 1: too if it was Rusty Allen. He always got the

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Speaker 1: hat on, but it kind of looked like him.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not Rusty. But Rusty is a beast. Rusty

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Speaker 2: should get way more props than he does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because those Sly records that he played on, I'm still

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Speaker 2: studying those records.

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Speaker 1: They're crazy.

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Speaker 2: Matter of fact, I just called somebody to try and

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Speaker 2: find Rusty's phone number. Really? So I just want to

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Speaker 2: hang out with him.

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Speaker 1: I think I have his email.

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. I can shoot that to you. I'm pretty sure. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's ridiculous. I don't want, like, I almost feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I love Larry and I love Grand

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Speaker 1: Central Station. But some of those slide records got even

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Speaker 1: better once, like.

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Speaker 2: He did. He did kill it. I mean, I never

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Speaker 2: want to say that. That's, like, sacrilegious for me to

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Speaker 2: say anything about Larry. But I have to say, that

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Speaker 2: Fresh record. And then he was like, if you listen

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Speaker 2: to him play with Bobby Womack, Yeah, right. Rusty, his

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Speaker 2: choice selection on bass is crazy. Bass is just a

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Speaker 2: crazy instrument, man. You can fill up church and a

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Speaker 2: lot of those Donny Hathaway records, the bass is a

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Speaker 2: lot to know, a lot to learn. I love bass

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Speaker 2: a lot. I'm always listening to music in my car

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Speaker 2: and just so amazed on how many great bass players

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Speaker 2: there really are.

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Speaker 1: There's some great ones, man. Pino, another who you've worked

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Speaker 1: with a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Pino comes by sometime and we just have a

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Speaker 2: bass off. One time we made a bass record. It

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Speaker 2: was just me and him. It was no other instruments

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Speaker 2: but bass. I don't know where it's at.

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Speaker 1: Y'all didn't put that out though, did you?

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Speaker 2: No. Pino just pops in sometimes when he's not traveling

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Speaker 2: with some big rock band or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, with the Who or whatever.

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Speaker 2: With the Who. He's like, yeah, I got to learn

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Speaker 2: 78 songs in two hours for the Who tour. I'm like, damn.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever want to do anything like that? A

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Speaker 1: tour with somebody else? Be like a sideman for just

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Speaker 1: like a year?

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Speaker 2: I'd rather be a sideman.

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Speaker 1: Really?

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Speaker 2: Trust me, if the Stones were to call me like

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Speaker 2: 15 years ago before the bass player they have now.

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Speaker 1: Before what? Daryl? Daryl, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Man, I'd be gone. I wouldn't even did my second album.

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Speaker 1: For real? I'd be out.

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Speaker 2: What? I'm on bus, I'm on jet. I'm out.

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Speaker 1: It's done. Someone's got to hit you up now, man.

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Speaker 2: No, it's an adventure just happening. It's done. I'm out

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Speaker 2: of solo stuff. I've never done it. I've been gone.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny. Dude, speaking of which, you performed with

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Speaker 1: Mick on the Grammys in 2011. I did. And that's

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Speaker 1: the best I've heard Mick sound outside of the Stones.

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Wow. Like the way y'all did that Solomon Burke song.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. He's an amazing dude. Like he, I mean,

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Speaker 2: he just came in and I wasn't supposed to play,

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Speaker 2: you know, because to play on the Grammys, you have

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Speaker 2: to be nominated to even to play, even to assist

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Speaker 2: another person. That's sort of the rules, I guess.

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Speaker 1: Got it.

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Speaker 2: Some bullshit rules, whatever, whatever. But Mick called me and said,

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Speaker 2: I want you to play with me at the Grammys.

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Speaker 2: So we never really told the Grammys. Somebody may have

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Speaker 2: told them maybe a few days before. They found out.

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Speaker 2: But what can they say? They can't say nothing. Mick

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Speaker 2: plays stadiums. He don't need to play the Grammys.

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Speaker 1: No one say no to Mick.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you know him like that?

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: No, he just, I think he heard Stone Rolling, the

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Speaker 2: album Don was, is a really good friend of his.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's how the affiliation happened. But it

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Speaker 2: was right. I mean, it was fun. I mean, I

295
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Speaker 2: had a lot of questions for him, you know.

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Speaker 1: Did you ask him? Yeah, of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about, you know, Holland Wolf. Wow. We

298
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Speaker 2: just talked about those Chess Records days and, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm a huge Holland Wolf fan. And so he told

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Speaker 2: me about it. All kind of stuff. He pulled out

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Speaker 2: his harp. We played blues at the rehearsals. We had

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Speaker 2: more fun at the rehearsals, like, for four or five

303
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Speaker 2: days than we did playing, you know, at the Grammys.

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Speaker 2: But it was really cool. He was a real cool dude.

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Speaker 1: It showed up on the Grammys, though, man. Oh, yeah, yeah.

306
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Speaker 2: It was fun.

307
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Speaker 1: It really did. It really did, man.

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Speaker 2: The band, I had the guys I had. Like, those

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Speaker 2: guys are hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, who was in the band?

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Speaker 2: Because that's who I think I had. Calvin Turner, Joss

312
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Speaker 2: on bass. Joss Smith is a blues guy. guitar man himself.

313
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Speaker 2: I'm Lamar, Lamar Carter on drums. And I had Rob

314
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Speaker 2: Bacon on guitar, which is a Detroit boy. Who's a,

315
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Speaker 2: a blues guy, fun guy. Um, I think I had

316
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Speaker 2: four horn players. I think maybe I had a Barry

317
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Speaker 2: trumpet sax bone. I had BJ singing background, Erica, Jerry

318
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Speaker 2: singing Charles, uh, play keys but that band that was

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Speaker 2: probably my best man that was my best man they

320
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Speaker 2: were fire yeah so you know they all big you

321
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Speaker 2: know mick fans so i think they play better for

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Speaker 2: mick than they play for me i was looking back

323
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Speaker 2: sometime like.

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Speaker 1: Hey oh it's so funny man Um, and you got some, yeah,

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Speaker 1: those guys too. Lamar, you mentioned he was on the

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Speaker 1: Stone Rolling album.

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Speaker 2: He was.

328
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Speaker 1: Some of those drum sounds y'all got.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was on the record. Um, Calvin played on

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Speaker 2: the record. They're actually on the picture too. It's me, Calvin,

331
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Speaker 2: and Lamar in the picture.

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Speaker 1: Are you in the picture?

333
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Speaker 2: No, not the one in the front, but there's a

334
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Speaker 2: picture in the back that plays to the back, um,

335
00:16:01,006 --> 00:16:04,236
Speaker 2: that we took this little picture. It is not highly publicized,

336
00:16:04,266 --> 00:16:07,096
Speaker 2: but yeah, we did that. Um, they played on a

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Speaker 2: song called... Moving down the line.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

339
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Speaker 2: But most of the record was played by me on drums.

340
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Speaker 1: Really?

341
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I play drums most of all the way I

342
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Speaker 2: see it. Wow. And most of Stone Rolling.

343
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Speaker 1: So when did you, because it's funny, I always think

344
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Speaker 1: of you more as a bass player. It seems like

345
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Speaker 1: you've become more of a guitar player maybe over the years.

346
00:16:31,496 --> 00:16:32,856
Speaker 1: But drums too? When did that happen?

347
00:16:37,286 --> 00:16:39,246
Speaker 2: I think I picked up the drums the same time

348
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Speaker 2: I picked up the bass. But I'm not a great

349
00:16:42,786 --> 00:16:45,046
Speaker 2: drummer or nothing like that. I can put together a

350
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Speaker 2: beat in a record, but you wouldn't want me in

351
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Speaker 2: your band. But in the studio, yeah, you want me

352
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Speaker 2: in the studio because I play these beats that fit

353
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Speaker 2: the vibe of what I'm doing. And sometimes it shifts.

354
00:16:57,696 --> 00:17:01,016
Speaker 2: It gets a little off. And so it's sort of

355
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Speaker 2: like that on the record. So Lamar, when he plays

356
00:17:04,056 --> 00:17:06,016
Speaker 2: my records over, he plays the mistakes.

357
00:17:07,126 --> 00:17:07,306
Speaker 1: Really?

358
00:17:07,326 --> 00:17:09,306
Speaker 2: That I make. And I'm like, just play it like

359
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Speaker 2: you would play it.

360
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Speaker 1: But he likes it.

361
00:17:11,246 --> 00:17:12,066
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he's being funny.

362
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Speaker 1: Oh, he's fucking with you?

363
00:17:13,226 --> 00:17:15,926
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's fucking with me. No, definitely.

364
00:17:15,966 --> 00:17:18,446
Speaker 1: That's fucked up, man. Yeah, he's like.

365
00:17:18,706 --> 00:17:19,796
Speaker 2: I'm like, bro, come on, bro.

366
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Speaker 1: That's funny. Speaking of that little vibe, I was thinking

367
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Speaker 1: about it. And I was thinking about the D'Angelo records

368
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Speaker 1: and Brown Sugar. I've heard Questlove say that... maybe y'all

369
00:17:36,046 --> 00:17:37,946
Speaker 1: asked him to play on the first record or something

370
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Speaker 1: and he wasn't feeling it or maybe he, like, I

371
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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe he'd heard about it and he was

372
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Speaker 1: just kind of a little dismissive because he wasn't there

373
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Speaker 1: with R & B. But then he heard the album

374
00:17:46,036 --> 00:17:48,996
Speaker 1: and loved, like, the drum sound and, like, just the

375
00:17:49,036 --> 00:17:52,006
Speaker 1: groove y'all locked into. And I feel like that groove

376
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Speaker 1: a little later kind of got associated with Dilla, who's

377
00:17:55,926 --> 00:18:01,946
Speaker 1: a genius, of course, as well. But that kind of was, like, y'all's,

378
00:18:02,106 --> 00:18:03,986
Speaker 1: not that it's a competition, but kind of early on,

379
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Speaker 1: that was kind of y'all's Yeah, I.

380
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Speaker 2: Think me and D'Angelo have the same background in gospel,

381
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Speaker 2: which is the Hawkins family. We both grew up listening

382
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Speaker 2: to Walter, Ed, Daniel, and Joe. And we didn't know

383
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Speaker 2: that when we first got together, but we figured it out.

384
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Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of random. I mean, you were in

385
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Speaker 1: the Bay.

386
00:18:27,286 --> 00:18:28,766
Speaker 2: I was in the Bay. He was in Virginia. But,

387
00:18:28,796 --> 00:18:34,396
Speaker 2: you know, that music sort of was all around the world. Like, really...

388
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Speaker 2: Andre Crouch was more of the bigger pop gospel, but

389
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Speaker 2: the Hawkins family was the more grit, you know, but

390
00:18:46,686 --> 00:18:49,466
Speaker 2: that was that. So somehow it got to Virginia and

391
00:18:49,506 --> 00:18:51,866
Speaker 2: it got to his house. His dad's a great piano player,

392
00:18:52,586 --> 00:18:57,146
Speaker 2: D'Angelo's dad. So it just sort of happened. We got

393
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Speaker 2: in the studio, we was making music and we were.

394
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Speaker 1: How did y'all even meet?

395
00:19:02,466 --> 00:19:06,806
Speaker 2: We met through... we met through an, um, A &

396
00:19:06,386 --> 00:19:10,106
Speaker 2: R from a publishing company. We were signed to the

397
00:19:10,156 --> 00:19:16,096
Speaker 2: same publishing company. So somebody introduced us and, um, the

398
00:19:16,136 --> 00:19:18,996
Speaker 2: first time we met, D was supposed to come to

399
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Speaker 2: my house and he didn't show up the first day.

400
00:19:22,956 --> 00:19:25,716
Speaker 2: And then he came the next day, but I think

401
00:19:25,756 --> 00:19:27,816
Speaker 2: he thought, you know, he was going to come to

402
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Speaker 2: a house and it was going to look like the, uh,

403
00:19:30,756 --> 00:19:35,016
Speaker 2: the rich and famous probably with a spiral stairs and helpers,

404
00:19:35,076 --> 00:19:36,116
Speaker 2: everybody in the house.

405
00:19:36,216 --> 00:19:38,456
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's like, I'm going to Tony, Tony, Tony's house.

406
00:19:39,016 --> 00:19:41,096
Speaker 2: But, but when he's asking me a lot of people,

407
00:19:41,126 --> 00:19:43,226
Speaker 2: he don't really like a lot of people, you know,

408
00:19:43,626 --> 00:19:45,846
Speaker 2: then he found out I don't need it. So when

409
00:19:45,866 --> 00:19:49,206
Speaker 2: he got to my, my little two bedroom, you know,

410
00:19:49,206 --> 00:19:53,966
Speaker 2: $ 235, 000 crib, what, you know, it was in the garage.

411
00:19:54,026 --> 00:19:55,246
Speaker 2: It was me, him and my engineer.

412
00:19:55,426 --> 00:19:55,826
Speaker 1: Where at?

413
00:19:56,046 --> 00:19:56,766
Speaker 2: In Sacramento.

414
00:19:56,826 --> 00:19:57,906
Speaker 1: In Sac? Oh wow. Yeah.

415
00:19:58,426 --> 00:20:01,716
Speaker 2: And, um, I lived in this neighborhood full of lobbies

416
00:20:01,756 --> 00:20:09,256
Speaker 2: and politicians, right? And he was just so surprised. He

417
00:20:09,276 --> 00:20:10,376
Speaker 2: didn't tell me later on. He said, I thought this

418
00:20:10,396 --> 00:20:12,096
Speaker 2: house was going to be crowded with a lot of people.

419
00:20:12,536 --> 00:20:20,486
Speaker 2: And it wasn't. And so I started playing lady. That's

420
00:20:20,496 --> 00:20:22,046
Speaker 2: the first thing we worked on was Lady.

421
00:20:22,206 --> 00:20:24,366
Speaker 1: You had that already? Yeah. Wow.

422
00:20:24,646 --> 00:20:26,606
Speaker 2: I had the idea, because it was supposed to be

423
00:20:26,966 --> 00:20:29,506
Speaker 2: for Tony's record, the idea.

424
00:20:29,526 --> 00:20:31,326
Speaker 1: For House of Music, maybe?

425
00:20:31,346 --> 00:20:34,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't like it. They didn't like the initial idea.

426
00:20:34,856 --> 00:20:38,336
Speaker 2: They never heard what it was going to be. Neither

427
00:20:38,376 --> 00:20:38,736
Speaker 2: did I.

428
00:20:39,436 --> 00:20:39,756
Speaker 1: But I.

429
00:20:41,816 --> 00:20:44,776
Speaker 2: Played the guitar riff for D'Angelo, and he said, I

430
00:20:45,826 --> 00:20:48,086
Speaker 2: like it. I said, cool. So I was going to

431
00:20:48,106 --> 00:20:52,856
Speaker 2: call somebody over to record. to play my guitar parts over. He,

432
00:20:52,876 --> 00:20:55,016
Speaker 2: he said, no, you should leave what you did. And

433
00:20:56,116 --> 00:20:59,896
Speaker 2: that's the first time my guitar playing, playing ever got

434
00:20:59,936 --> 00:21:00,456
Speaker 2: on the record.

435
00:21:00,696 --> 00:21:00,916
Speaker 1: Wow.

436
00:21:01,456 --> 00:21:02,226
Speaker 2: Ever got on a record.

437
00:21:02,236 --> 00:21:02,576
Speaker 1: Yeah.

438
00:21:02,626 --> 00:21:05,606
Speaker 2: So, but I think the, how, how we came up

439
00:21:05,646 --> 00:21:09,826
Speaker 2: with that, we figured it out. We were, we were,

440
00:21:09,866 --> 00:21:12,446
Speaker 2: we were playing and we were playing behind the beat,

441
00:21:12,466 --> 00:21:14,366
Speaker 2: but I think we were just really trying to lock,

442
00:21:14,626 --> 00:21:18,326
Speaker 2: lock something in. And so he would, fall back and

443
00:21:18,366 --> 00:21:20,846
Speaker 2: he would start laughing. Then I would fall back and

444
00:21:20,866 --> 00:21:22,986
Speaker 2: we started kind of smiling and laughing and it became,

445
00:21:23,406 --> 00:21:26,906
Speaker 2: we just kept going back and forth, but not talking

446
00:21:26,946 --> 00:21:30,756
Speaker 2: about it. And it became sort of the style of

447
00:21:31,096 --> 00:21:33,756
Speaker 2: his record, but that's the way he sings. That's the

448
00:21:33,796 --> 00:21:36,676
Speaker 2: way he plays. Wow. And it was just natural for him,

449
00:21:36,696 --> 00:21:37,656
Speaker 2: but he's a Dilla fan.

450
00:21:38,116 --> 00:21:38,336
Speaker 1: Yeah.

451
00:21:38,616 --> 00:21:40,216
Speaker 2: And so then, you know, I'm a Dilla fan too.

452
00:21:40,256 --> 00:21:44,246
Speaker 2: So I figured it out later. We were just mocking Dilla.

453
00:21:45,246 --> 00:21:47,646
Speaker 1: Really? That early? Like that early on?

454
00:21:47,726 --> 00:21:49,186
Speaker 2: I think Dilla was the first one.

455
00:21:49,546 --> 00:21:50,406
Speaker 1: Okay.

456
00:21:50,686 --> 00:21:52,046
Speaker 2: Or we heard it through hip-hop.

457
00:21:52,386 --> 00:21:54,906
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Maybe it's just not Dilla.

458
00:21:54,946 --> 00:21:58,206
Speaker 2: Maybe we heard it on some Wu-Tang records. Maybe we

459
00:21:58,246 --> 00:21:59,566
Speaker 2: heard it on some Tribe records.

460
00:21:59,726 --> 00:21:59,986
Speaker 1: Yeah.

461
00:22:00,526 --> 00:22:02,606
Speaker 2: We just love, I love hip-hop.

462
00:22:02,846 --> 00:22:03,046
Speaker 1: Yeah.

463
00:22:03,146 --> 00:22:07,636
Speaker 2: Right? So I think both our love for the Hawks

464
00:22:07,696 --> 00:22:13,556
Speaker 2: is in gospel and hip-hop and rock and songwriting. It

465
00:22:13,596 --> 00:22:15,456
Speaker 2: was just the perfect storm at the right time.

466
00:22:15,616 --> 00:22:19,056
Speaker 1: The way you explain it, it's perfect that y'all met. Yeah.

467
00:22:19,096 --> 00:22:22,256
Speaker 1: Because it really is the right combo of everything.

468
00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:26,836
Speaker 2: I mean, I just talked to him yesterday. And we

469
00:22:26,856 --> 00:22:29,596
Speaker 2: don't talk much. You know what I mean? And it's

470
00:22:29,636 --> 00:22:33,856
Speaker 2: hard to catch either one of us. But yesterday we

471
00:22:33,906 --> 00:22:35,666
Speaker 2: caught up and was like, yo, you picked up. I

472
00:22:35,686 --> 00:22:37,306
Speaker 2: picked up and said, I didn't expect you to pick up.

473
00:22:37,306 --> 00:22:38,946
Speaker 2: But I was going to leave you a message about

474
00:22:38,966 --> 00:22:43,456
Speaker 2: your field. on keys because now I'm practicing keys, like,

475
00:22:43,476 --> 00:22:44,316
Speaker 2: you know, piano a lot.

476
00:22:44,376 --> 00:22:44,536
Speaker 1: Yeah.

477
00:22:45,256 --> 00:22:49,396
Speaker 2: And since I've been studying it, I always knew what

478
00:22:49,436 --> 00:22:55,286
Speaker 2: he knew on piano, but now it's really, I really know. Like,

479
00:22:55,706 --> 00:22:58,186
Speaker 2: his touch, his approach to piano was different from most

480
00:22:58,246 --> 00:23:01,926
Speaker 2: gospel piano players because Dee sort of graduated from church.

481
00:23:01,986 --> 00:23:04,686
Speaker 2: He didn't make records and get locked into, like, playing

482
00:23:04,726 --> 00:23:06,726
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of chords like church guys do.

483
00:23:06,846 --> 00:23:07,026
Speaker 1: Yeah.

484
00:23:07,506 --> 00:23:13,846
Speaker 2: He's, like, really figured out his place with songwriting and

485
00:23:13,876 --> 00:23:17,436
Speaker 2: his touch and his feel yeah and it's different and

486
00:23:17,456 --> 00:23:19,776
Speaker 2: that's why i called him we were just laughing about that.

487
00:23:19,616 --> 00:23:22,216
Speaker 1: Because you did you send him some stuff or like.

488
00:23:22,196 --> 00:23:24,436
Speaker 2: No we he heard stuff that i got and he

489
00:23:24,646 --> 00:23:26,486
Speaker 2: you know we we always go back and forth but

490
00:23:26,526 --> 00:23:30,366
Speaker 2: he he got some records he that he he's excited

491
00:23:30,446 --> 00:23:31,346
Speaker 2: about and you.

492
00:23:31,286 --> 00:23:33,026
Speaker 1: Know we always just send us some stuff so you

493
00:23:33,046 --> 00:23:34,426
Speaker 1: sent us no no no.

494
00:23:34,346 --> 00:23:37,296
Speaker 2: He was here he came here okay one day um

495
00:23:37,896 --> 00:23:40,216
Speaker 2: He played the Hollywood Bowl, and I played guitar with him.

496
00:23:40,496 --> 00:23:41,236
Speaker 1: Yeah, right.

497
00:23:41,376 --> 00:23:45,656
Speaker 2: And he came in here afterwards, and we just pressed

498
00:23:45,696 --> 00:23:49,056
Speaker 2: play and played records. And he's playing guitar now, and

499
00:23:49,096 --> 00:23:53,836
Speaker 2: he's playing bass, and he's funky as hell right now.

500
00:23:54,576 --> 00:23:56,646
Speaker 1: Man, I like seeing him play guitar on that last tour.

501
00:23:56,666 --> 00:23:59,016
Speaker 2: He's a bad boy. Yeah, he's a bad boy. And

502
00:23:59,276 --> 00:24:02,646
Speaker 2: Q-Tips is getting good on bass. Really? He's getting good

503
00:24:02,686 --> 00:24:06,026
Speaker 2: on bass. Shahid is really good on bass.

504
00:24:06,206 --> 00:24:06,646
Speaker 1: Oh, shit.

505
00:24:07,036 --> 00:24:11,706
Speaker 2: You know oh shit yeah adrian young is getting good

506
00:24:11,766 --> 00:24:14,386
Speaker 2: on bass all my friends that didn't play they all

507
00:24:14,606 --> 00:24:18,086
Speaker 2: pretty good now did adrian never play he played but

508
00:24:19,646 --> 00:24:22,546
Speaker 2: now i heard him play like maybe two weeks ago

509
00:24:22,766 --> 00:24:24,146
Speaker 2: on the record i was like man who's playing on

510
00:24:24,166 --> 00:24:27,546
Speaker 2: the record i said wow i said you i said

511
00:24:27,566 --> 00:24:30,146
Speaker 2: you was playing you know maybe two years ago but

512
00:24:30,226 --> 00:24:32,466
Speaker 2: now I wouldn't have known that was you.

513
00:24:32,486 --> 00:24:32,906
Speaker 1: Wow.

514
00:24:33,186 --> 00:24:35,686
Speaker 2: So, you know, I love to see people putting in

515
00:24:35,706 --> 00:24:36,026
Speaker 2: the work.

516
00:24:36,086 --> 00:24:37,226
Speaker 1: That's a huge compliment from you.

517
00:24:37,646 --> 00:24:39,006
Speaker 2: Yeah, they putting in the work.

518
00:24:39,246 --> 00:24:42,426
Speaker 1: That's wild. We'll be right back with more from Raphael

519
00:24:42,446 --> 00:24:50,546
Speaker 1: Sadiq after this break. We're back with Raphael Sadiq. You know,

520
00:24:50,566 --> 00:24:54,226
Speaker 1: it's funny. You mentioned that you brought Lady to the Tonys.

521
00:24:54,946 --> 00:25:00,866
Speaker 1: I was curious about when you kind of left the Tonys,

522
00:25:00,886 --> 00:25:06,066
Speaker 1: you switched to guitar. Like, how your brother Dwayne felt

523
00:25:06,126 --> 00:25:08,206
Speaker 1: about that? Because he was kind of the guitar, like,

524
00:25:08,246 --> 00:25:10,786
Speaker 1: was there like a little friction with that? Or like,

525
00:25:10,966 --> 00:25:12,506
Speaker 1: did he look at you like, you know, you're playing

526
00:25:12,526 --> 00:25:14,696
Speaker 1: with Mick Jagger on the, playing guitar with Mick Jagger

527
00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:16,036
Speaker 1: at the Grams. Like, come on, dog.

528
00:25:16,476 --> 00:25:19,176
Speaker 2: Actually, I wouldn't even know. I wouldn't even know. But

529
00:25:19,316 --> 00:25:23,976
Speaker 2: when you're going to be a frontman, I like frontmans

530
00:25:23,996 --> 00:25:27,556
Speaker 2: that play guitars, not bass. I mean, I love like Larry,

531
00:25:28,036 --> 00:25:33,176
Speaker 2: that plays bass. It's hard to play bass and sing Bootsy,

532
00:25:33,336 --> 00:25:33,626
Speaker 2: Level 42.

533
00:25:33,616 --> 00:25:33,876
Speaker 1: Yeah.

534
00:25:33,936 --> 00:25:38,546
Speaker 2: The Rush guy, I guess. But you got to really be,

535
00:25:40,126 --> 00:25:42,426
Speaker 2: I've played bass on one tour as a front, as

536
00:25:42,486 --> 00:25:45,866
Speaker 2: a singer in the front. It's not easy. It's fun,

537
00:25:46,746 --> 00:25:49,666
Speaker 2: but it's not easy. I'd rather, I want somebody to

538
00:25:49,726 --> 00:25:51,166
Speaker 2: dig in on the bass when I'm singing.

539
00:25:51,306 --> 00:25:52,026
Speaker 1: Yeah, right.

540
00:25:52,066 --> 00:25:54,146
Speaker 2: So I have to have the guy that relieves me

541
00:25:54,286 --> 00:25:56,596
Speaker 2: on bass got to be like, That dude, you know.

542
00:25:56,736 --> 00:25:58,996
Speaker 1: How'd you pick the dude for the recent Tony's tour?

543
00:26:01,816 --> 00:26:05,216
Speaker 2: How did I, I seen him play, I think I

544
00:26:05,256 --> 00:26:06,276
Speaker 2: found him on Instagram.

545
00:26:06,476 --> 00:26:06,736
Speaker 1: Really?

546
00:26:07,336 --> 00:26:09,276
Speaker 2: I seen him play Josh.

547
00:26:09,896 --> 00:26:10,156
Speaker 1: Wow.

548
00:26:10,456 --> 00:26:13,336
Speaker 2: Yeah, Josh, he's a bad boy too. And he used

549
00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:15,986
Speaker 2: to play with MPG. But I didn't know that at

550
00:26:16,026 --> 00:26:16,406
Speaker 2: the time.

551
00:26:16,786 --> 00:26:17,786
Speaker 1: You just found him and just.

552
00:26:18,146 --> 00:26:21,306
Speaker 2: I found him at the time and I knew he

553
00:26:21,326 --> 00:26:23,886
Speaker 2: was solid. You know, you just need somebody solid that's,

554
00:26:24,486 --> 00:26:29,726
Speaker 2: They got chops, but they also know how to play,

555
00:26:29,766 --> 00:26:30,586
Speaker 2: you know, be solid.

556
00:26:31,836 --> 00:26:33,576
Speaker 1: Did you consider doing the tour, like bass on the

557
00:26:33,616 --> 00:26:34,196
Speaker 1: tour or nah?

558
00:26:35,096 --> 00:26:37,676
Speaker 2: Oh, no, I never even, because I've never played bass

559
00:26:37,716 --> 00:26:41,856
Speaker 2: on a Tony's tour. Never. I've never even played guitar.

560
00:26:43,936 --> 00:26:44,736
Speaker 1: But you're on the records.

561
00:26:45,476 --> 00:26:46,336
Speaker 2: I played all the records.

562
00:26:46,356 --> 00:26:46,496
Speaker 1: Yeah.

563
00:26:47,036 --> 00:26:47,556
Speaker 2: Yeah.

564
00:26:47,596 --> 00:26:49,676
Speaker 1: And you just, same reason, you just didn't want, you

565
00:26:49,696 --> 00:26:51,716
Speaker 1: wanted to be, because you're leading. Yeah.

566
00:26:51,736 --> 00:26:53,696
Speaker 2: I didn't think I could do it, honestly, to be honest.

567
00:26:53,716 --> 00:26:55,536
Speaker 2: I didn't think I could do it. I didn't think that,

568
00:26:56,456 --> 00:27:01,086
Speaker 2: you know, syllables and rhythms, you know, sometimes when you

569
00:27:01,466 --> 00:27:04,126
Speaker 2: sing a word in a syllable, sometimes your fingers go

570
00:27:04,166 --> 00:27:04,416
Speaker 2: with it.

571
00:27:04,586 --> 00:27:04,826
Speaker 1: Yeah.

572
00:27:05,286 --> 00:27:07,186
Speaker 2: So you have to separate, like a drummer, you have

573
00:27:07,206 --> 00:27:10,266
Speaker 2: to separate that part. I could do it. I've done it.

574
00:27:10,706 --> 00:27:15,346
Speaker 2: I've done a tour with me, Rob Bacon. Rob was

575
00:27:15,386 --> 00:27:18,076
Speaker 2: on guitar, I was on bass. I forgot the drummer

576
00:27:19,056 --> 00:27:24,236
Speaker 2: and Kelvin wouldn't play keys. And it was fun. It was,

577
00:27:24,816 --> 00:27:27,876
Speaker 2: you know, less people, more money for me. Right.

578
00:27:27,936 --> 00:27:33,226
Speaker 1: Yeah. One less player. You gotta, you gotta pay. How

579
00:27:33,266 --> 00:27:35,546
Speaker 1: do you separate? I mean, you've like, man, you've been

580
00:27:35,606 --> 00:27:37,966
Speaker 1: on a, a hell of a run lately with the,

581
00:27:38,146 --> 00:27:44,286
Speaker 1: with composing and writing and producing these days. Like how

582
00:27:44,346 --> 00:27:46,446
Speaker 1: are you spending your time? Like musically? Like, are you,

583
00:27:48,076 --> 00:27:49,276
Speaker 1: Are you writing a lot?

584
00:27:49,816 --> 00:27:52,316
Speaker 2: I spend my time right there on that piano.

585
00:27:52,636 --> 00:27:53,136
Speaker 1: This piano?

586
00:27:53,196 --> 00:27:55,096
Speaker 2: Yeah, I spend most of my time on the piano.

587
00:27:56,256 --> 00:28:03,786
Speaker 2: I haven't recorded anything in maybe close to six months.

588
00:28:05,606 --> 00:28:08,166
Speaker 2: I said, I just want to practice and just play

589
00:28:08,386 --> 00:28:11,806
Speaker 2: and not just loop everything. Because when you're recording now

590
00:28:11,826 --> 00:28:14,446
Speaker 2: and you're in Ableton, you just loop everything and you

591
00:28:14,466 --> 00:28:17,756
Speaker 2: never get any practice time on any instrument. so I'm

592
00:28:17,776 --> 00:28:19,556
Speaker 2: just doing a lot of listening to, you know, a

593
00:28:21,376 --> 00:28:24,186
Speaker 2: lot of Donnie, a lot of Earthwind, a lot of, um,

594
00:28:25,646 --> 00:28:28,666
Speaker 2: going to shows. I just want to, you know, concerts

595
00:28:28,766 --> 00:28:34,586
Speaker 2: and figuring out when I'm a tour again in 25 and,

596
00:28:35,806 --> 00:28:38,976
Speaker 2: and just figuring out a lot of keyboard stuff, listening

597
00:28:38,996 --> 00:28:41,276
Speaker 2: to songs that I really love and learning how to

598
00:28:41,296 --> 00:28:45,796
Speaker 2: play them and, and just knowing, you know, um, Learning

599
00:28:45,836 --> 00:28:47,816
Speaker 2: what I'm playing. You know, I'm taking piano lessons. I

600
00:28:47,836 --> 00:28:49,296
Speaker 2: take piano lessons three days a week.

601
00:28:49,556 --> 00:28:49,816
Speaker 1: Wow.

602
00:28:51,016 --> 00:28:53,736
Speaker 2: I take classical pianos. I haven't played not one full

603
00:28:53,756 --> 00:28:57,386
Speaker 2: classical piece yet, but because I'm starting from the.

604
00:28:57,346 --> 00:28:59,226
Speaker 1: Very, very beginning. And are you reading or are you writing?

605
00:28:59,246 --> 00:29:00,246
Speaker 2: Reading, everything, yeah.

606
00:29:00,286 --> 00:29:00,486
Speaker 1: Wow.

607
00:29:00,506 --> 00:29:03,886
Speaker 2: So I played first bone in school. I played trombone

608
00:29:03,926 --> 00:29:04,226
Speaker 2: in high school.

609
00:29:04,246 --> 00:29:04,986
Speaker 1: So you've been reading.

610
00:29:05,786 --> 00:29:06,666
Speaker 2: We was cheating in school.

611
00:29:06,686 --> 00:29:07,086
Speaker 1: That's why.

612
00:29:07,106 --> 00:29:11,576
Speaker 2: We was writing down the positions, you know, one, two, four.

613
00:29:12,526 --> 00:29:15,436
Speaker 2: We knew, you know, I could read bass clef pretty

614
00:29:15,456 --> 00:29:18,896
Speaker 2: good then. But, you know, you don't use it, you

615
00:29:18,936 --> 00:29:19,246
Speaker 2: lose it.

616
00:29:19,516 --> 00:29:20,496
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

617
00:29:20,836 --> 00:29:23,196
Speaker 2: So it's from the beginning now. Wow.

618
00:29:23,236 --> 00:29:24,946
Speaker 1: What made you want to like woodshed right now? Like

619
00:29:24,966 --> 00:29:27,286
Speaker 1: what was the impetus for that? Like was there like

620
00:29:27,306 --> 00:29:28,766
Speaker 1: a moment where you're like, ah, man, like.

621
00:29:30,206 --> 00:29:33,606
Speaker 2: I got bored. I mean, I just, I love, I

622
00:29:33,646 --> 00:29:36,006
Speaker 2: love piano. I love chords. I love voice teams. And

623
00:29:36,026 --> 00:29:39,456
Speaker 2: I just want, I want to have so much artillery in.

624
00:29:40,546 --> 00:29:43,796
Speaker 2: to write, to grab from. Like I can hear everything.

625
00:29:43,876 --> 00:29:45,616
Speaker 2: I can hear it, but I just want to be

626
00:29:45,656 --> 00:29:48,816
Speaker 2: able to go to it in like two seconds. so

627
00:29:48,836 --> 00:29:55,886
Speaker 2: my nephew he plays piano Dylan and he's from another

628
00:29:56,266 --> 00:29:58,586
Speaker 2: another world yeah yeah he can he could pick up

629
00:29:58,646 --> 00:30:04,266
Speaker 2: anything learn anything and that just I always tell him

630
00:30:04,386 --> 00:30:07,806
Speaker 2: to not Don't stop because he's doing pretty good. He's

631
00:30:07,826 --> 00:30:09,266
Speaker 2: done a lot of records. He worked with a lot

632
00:30:09,286 --> 00:30:14,096
Speaker 2: of people. And because he's so talented that, you know,

633
00:30:14,136 --> 00:30:16,616
Speaker 2: you can stop playing your main instrument. His main instrument

634
00:30:16,676 --> 00:30:21,616
Speaker 2: is piano, but he plays guitar, drums. His little brother, Jaden,

635
00:30:22,336 --> 00:30:25,476
Speaker 2: he plays bass. He's funky as hell. He's been playing

636
00:30:25,496 --> 00:30:27,746
Speaker 2: like Larry Graham songs since he was like nine years old.

637
00:30:27,866 --> 00:30:28,046
Speaker 1: What?

638
00:30:28,566 --> 00:30:30,346
Speaker 2: And talking like Larry, acting like him.

639
00:30:30,526 --> 00:30:31,646
Speaker 1: Uh-oh. That's an issue.

640
00:30:31,966 --> 00:30:32,706
Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole thing. So.

641
00:30:34,536 --> 00:30:36,096
Speaker 2: You know, when you're in the industry, you just don't

642
00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:40,696
Speaker 2: want to fall off the instrument that you love. And

643
00:30:40,736 --> 00:30:43,256
Speaker 2: so I always tell him, like, are you practicing? You know,

644
00:30:43,356 --> 00:30:46,056
Speaker 2: are you practicing? Don't stop because you got a record

645
00:30:46,096 --> 00:30:49,836
Speaker 2: out with this person, this person. Keep playing. So I

646
00:30:49,906 --> 00:30:53,566
Speaker 2: took some of my own advice and jumped on the piano,

647
00:30:53,626 --> 00:30:59,526
Speaker 2: looked on Google, found this piano teacher. Kristen, it was

648
00:30:59,546 --> 00:31:02,746
Speaker 2: the Tahonga Pianos. I found it. I thought she was

649
00:31:02,786 --> 00:31:09,016
Speaker 2: in Tahonga. No, Topanga Canyon pianos. And she was actually

650
00:31:09,056 --> 00:31:13,506
Speaker 2: in Seattle. So I like have a screen here. I mean,

651
00:31:13,526 --> 00:31:15,926
Speaker 2: a camera here, a camera here, a camera here. I'm

652
00:31:15,986 --> 00:31:16,986
Speaker 2: an upright piano.

653
00:31:16,746 --> 00:31:18,626
Speaker 1: In the back. Oh, OK. You're zooming on that.

654
00:31:19,006 --> 00:31:19,546
Speaker 2: I'm zooming.

655
00:31:20,306 --> 00:31:20,546
Speaker 1: Yeah.

656
00:31:20,686 --> 00:31:24,436
Speaker 2: And it's been really cool. So I haven't written any music.

657
00:31:25,056 --> 00:31:28,316
Speaker 2: But when I start writing music, I think it's going

658
00:31:28,336 --> 00:31:29,816
Speaker 2: to be a little different.

659
00:31:30,216 --> 00:31:33,476
Speaker 1: You have a whole new bag to pull from. Yeah.

660
00:31:33,516 --> 00:31:36,476
Speaker 2: Because now I'm playing like stylistic songs. I'm going over

661
00:31:36,536 --> 00:31:39,536
Speaker 2: all the songs that I used to play. Some of

662
00:31:39,576 --> 00:31:41,996
Speaker 2: the best writers were, you know, piano players.

663
00:31:42,116 --> 00:31:43,716
Speaker 1: Yeah. So what are you like? What are the ones,

664
00:31:43,756 --> 00:31:45,736
Speaker 1: what are the songs that stand out for you as a,

665
00:31:46,256 --> 00:31:49,336
Speaker 1: what were the songs that you loved growing up? Oh, that, that,

666
00:31:49,736 --> 00:31:52,326
Speaker 1: that are also like incredible piano songs.

667
00:31:52,786 --> 00:31:54,806
Speaker 2: It's going to sound redundant, but that's why I started

668
00:31:54,826 --> 00:31:57,786
Speaker 2: listening to the Hawkins family because I felt like all

669
00:31:57,846 --> 00:32:01,776
Speaker 2: those records, if I learned those records, just, almost everything

670
00:32:01,816 --> 00:32:03,556
Speaker 2: I wanted to know. But then I would say, like,

671
00:32:03,576 --> 00:32:07,586
Speaker 2: you know, Tom Bell and The Creed, you know, very

672
00:32:07,606 --> 00:32:11,126
Speaker 2: good piano songs. And it falls right in place with all, like,

673
00:32:11,146 --> 00:32:15,506
Speaker 2: The Spinners and The Delphonics, The Stylics, all those people.

674
00:32:16,206 --> 00:32:19,286
Speaker 2: And then Earth, Wind & Fire, I was definitely all

675
00:32:19,386 --> 00:32:22,736
Speaker 2: over the Gratitudes albums, the live album.

676
00:32:23,276 --> 00:32:24,776
Speaker 1: Did you ever see them in the day?

677
00:32:25,416 --> 00:32:27,096
Speaker 2: I didn't see the Gratitude tour, no.

678
00:32:27,216 --> 00:32:27,476
Speaker 1: Okay.

679
00:32:27,656 --> 00:32:30,036
Speaker 2: But I saw... Funk on the Green. I saw Parliament.

680
00:32:30,056 --> 00:32:36,536
Speaker 2: I saw Bernie Burrell play live. I saw Tower of

681
00:32:36,616 --> 00:32:41,966
Speaker 2: Power live. I saw Bob Marley and the Wailers.

682
00:32:42,146 --> 00:32:43,146
Speaker 1: You did? Mm-hmm.

683
00:32:43,186 --> 00:32:43,946
Speaker 2: The Berkeley Greek.

684
00:32:44,206 --> 00:32:49,126
Speaker 1: Wow. I don't think I've met anybody that saw. I

685
00:32:49,146 --> 00:32:51,086
Speaker 1: met one person one time that had tickets and they

686
00:32:51,106 --> 00:32:52,706
Speaker 1: didn't go for some reason. I was like, what a mistake.

687
00:32:52,726 --> 00:32:54,466
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't have tickets. I was just on a bike,

688
00:32:54,526 --> 00:32:56,206
Speaker 2: riding a bike from East Oakland.

689
00:32:57,486 --> 00:32:57,686
Speaker 1: Just.

690
00:32:58,706 --> 00:33:01,926
Speaker 2: to Berkeley just being some bad kids just riding so

691
00:33:02,006 --> 00:33:05,346
Speaker 2: far from home and we were just riding around and

692
00:33:05,396 --> 00:33:08,656
Speaker 2: I heard this reggae music and my friends kept going

693
00:33:08,816 --> 00:33:11,016
Speaker 2: on the bike and I stopped and I'm looking through

694
00:33:11,036 --> 00:33:13,776
Speaker 2: the fence and I'm like what is that and I

695
00:33:13,796 --> 00:33:17,516
Speaker 2: could see Bob Marley and and I just stayed there

696
00:33:17,816 --> 00:33:18,656
Speaker 2: I never left.

697
00:33:18,536 --> 00:33:20,116
Speaker 1: Did you know Bob Marley at the time yeah I.

698
00:33:20,116 --> 00:33:21,886
Speaker 2: Knew who he was I didn't know much about I

699
00:33:21,926 --> 00:33:24,766
Speaker 2: knew who he was but I didn't leave I just

700
00:33:24,786 --> 00:33:27,006
Speaker 2: stayed there by the fence I watched through the fence

701
00:33:27,896 --> 00:33:35,156
Speaker 2: That's incredible. Yeah. So I'm a huge Wailers, you know,

702
00:33:35,576 --> 00:33:39,416
Speaker 2: I mean, the bass playing from Family Man is the naughtiest.

703
00:33:39,736 --> 00:33:39,896
Speaker 1: Yeah.

704
00:33:40,176 --> 00:33:43,056
Speaker 2: I like rhythm sections like Brothers, like the rhythm section

705
00:33:43,096 --> 00:33:45,276
Speaker 2: with him and Family Man and his brother on drums.

706
00:33:45,316 --> 00:33:45,516
Speaker 1: Yeah.

707
00:33:45,856 --> 00:33:51,786
Speaker 2: It's the tightest drum section. I would say I would

708
00:33:51,826 --> 00:33:54,406
Speaker 2: put them neck and neck with the James Brown rhythm section.

709
00:33:54,626 --> 00:33:54,746
Speaker 1: Wow.

710
00:33:56,146 --> 00:33:57,726
Speaker 2: It's different, but it's tight.

711
00:33:57,906 --> 00:34:00,426
Speaker 1: That's a hell of a... I know. I'm going to

712
00:34:00,446 --> 00:34:02,526
Speaker 1: have to go back and listen for that specific.

713
00:34:02,906 --> 00:34:07,846
Speaker 2: Oh, man. It's crazy. Then I'll go to Verdine and Freddie.

714
00:34:08,946 --> 00:34:09,846
Speaker 1: Yeah.

715
00:34:10,006 --> 00:34:11,786
Speaker 2: Those are my rhythm sections.

716
00:34:12,026 --> 00:34:12,246
Speaker 1: Yeah.

717
00:34:13,446 --> 00:34:17,186
Speaker 2: The Bob rhythm section, Earth, Wind & Fire's rhythm section,

718
00:34:17,906 --> 00:34:18,386
Speaker 2: and James.

719
00:34:18,726 --> 00:34:18,966
Speaker 1: Wow.

720
00:34:19,526 --> 00:34:21,046
Speaker 2: And, of course, James Jamerson.

721
00:34:21,986 --> 00:34:25,786
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Motown. Motown. Yeah. You worked with Earth, Wind & Fire.

722
00:34:26,186 --> 00:34:29,166
Speaker 1: And with like when Maurice was still. I did.

723
00:34:29,186 --> 00:34:30,346
Speaker 2: I had a chance to work with Maurice.

724
00:34:30,406 --> 00:34:30,886
Speaker 1: Maurice White.

725
00:34:30,926 --> 00:34:33,526
Speaker 2: Talked to Maurice White a lot.

726
00:34:34,686 --> 00:34:37,106
Speaker 1: What was that like? That was scary, man. Yeah.

727
00:34:37,126 --> 00:34:39,726
Speaker 2: That was scary working with Maurice. I mean, they all

728
00:34:39,776 --> 00:34:42,896
Speaker 2: walked in the room. Three of them. Phillip.

729
00:34:44,356 --> 00:34:45,056
Speaker 1: Phillip Bailey.

730
00:34:45,316 --> 00:34:48,436
Speaker 2: Phillip Bailey, Maurice White, and Ralph Johnson.

731
00:34:48,756 --> 00:34:49,936
Speaker 1: Dope. Yeah.

732
00:34:50,016 --> 00:34:52,156
Speaker 2: They walked in the room and I was super nervous.

733
00:34:53,656 --> 00:34:56,846
Speaker 2: But they're really nice. And so much history. You could

734
00:34:56,866 --> 00:34:58,966
Speaker 2: feel the history when they walk in the room. You

735
00:34:58,986 --> 00:35:03,606
Speaker 2: could just feel that. Like, like we just, we bad.

736
00:35:04,206 --> 00:35:07,176
Speaker 2: We bad boys. Like we, we, we bring it.

737
00:35:07,376 --> 00:35:08,016
Speaker 1: Yeah.

738
00:35:08,036 --> 00:35:10,896
Speaker 2: He was a band leader. You know, he was a

739
00:35:10,956 --> 00:35:12,796
Speaker 2: band leader guy. And then. Yeah.

740
00:35:12,816 --> 00:35:15,416
Speaker 1: What was the dynamic? How was, how was Maurice's dynamic

741
00:35:15,456 --> 00:35:16,076
Speaker 1: in the room with.

742
00:35:16,356 --> 00:35:18,526
Speaker 2: He produced me. He produced me to produce.

743
00:35:18,546 --> 00:35:18,986
Speaker 1: Yeah.

744
00:35:19,886 --> 00:35:23,236
Speaker 2: Yeah. yeah that's crazy like when i was singing um

745
00:35:23,796 --> 00:35:26,736
Speaker 2: uh i was singing the falsetto part on show me

746
00:35:26,756 --> 00:35:29,016
Speaker 2: the way and he told me to and to tell

747
00:35:29,116 --> 00:35:31,456
Speaker 2: in and just kick the reverb a little bit higher

748
00:35:32,736 --> 00:35:36,496
Speaker 2: it's a producing tip damn yeah from the best.

749
00:35:37,176 --> 00:35:39,196
Speaker 1: From definitely from the best especially for the back like

750
00:35:39,296 --> 00:35:41,876
Speaker 1: if it's a producing tip on a on a falsetto

751
00:35:41,916 --> 00:35:45,316
Speaker 1: vocal yeah come on yeah you know that's solid advice

752
00:35:46,716 --> 00:35:52,626
Speaker 1: did um Did you, you didn't play, you never played

753
00:35:52,646 --> 00:35:53,586
Speaker 1: live with them, did you?

754
00:35:54,086 --> 00:35:56,766
Speaker 2: I've never played live with Earth, Wind & Fire, no.

755
00:35:56,926 --> 00:35:59,366
Speaker 2: I mean, I would still love to do that now.

756
00:35:59,426 --> 00:36:01,526
Speaker 2: But I mean, it's still neat. Verdine's playing. You know

757
00:36:01,646 --> 00:36:03,906
Speaker 2: what I mean? Yeah. You can't. I mean, that's the

758
00:36:04,566 --> 00:36:05,626
Speaker 2: backbone of Earth, Wind & Fire.

759
00:36:05,646 --> 00:36:07,146
Speaker 1: You could jump in on guitar, though.

760
00:36:07,166 --> 00:36:10,896
Speaker 2: If you're not moving, nah. They just let me clap

761
00:36:10,936 --> 00:36:13,096
Speaker 2: my hands. Maybe I could sing a part with Phillip,

762
00:36:13,116 --> 00:36:15,956
Speaker 2: but I'm definitely not going to jump on a guitar

763
00:36:15,976 --> 00:36:16,436
Speaker 2: or bass.

764
00:36:17,136 --> 00:36:17,416
Speaker 1: Man.

765
00:36:17,996 --> 00:36:22,766
Speaker 2: Maybe a soundcheck. A couple of soundchecks I would like

766
00:36:22,806 --> 00:36:27,306
Speaker 2: to play with. With Earth, Wind & Fire. And I

767
00:36:27,566 --> 00:36:30,596
Speaker 2: got a chance to play with Nile Rodgers and Chic.

768
00:36:30,976 --> 00:36:31,316
Speaker 1: Wow.

769
00:36:32,916 --> 00:36:34,436
Speaker 2: For something at Apple.

770
00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:35,336
Speaker 1: When was that?

771
00:36:36,196 --> 00:36:39,776
Speaker 2: Maybe a year ago. A year? Something for some type

772
00:36:39,816 --> 00:36:43,706
Speaker 2: of new headphones or something. I was like, oh yeah,

773
00:36:43,846 --> 00:36:46,026
Speaker 2: definitely doing that. But it wasn't a live audience.

774
00:36:46,726 --> 00:36:47,426
Speaker 1: How was it though?

775
00:36:47,586 --> 00:36:49,546
Speaker 2: It was amazing. Because, you know, Bernard Edwards is.

776
00:36:49,566 --> 00:36:50,386
Speaker 1: Right.

777
00:36:50,746 --> 00:36:51,456
Speaker 2: This is my guy too.

778
00:36:51,466 --> 00:36:53,446
Speaker 1: Were you playing his parts? Yes.

779
00:36:54,446 --> 00:36:56,206
Speaker 2: Dressed like him. I did the whole thing. I had

780
00:36:56,506 --> 00:36:59,656
Speaker 2: schoolboy glasses on, the tweed jagged. I did the whole thing.

781
00:36:59,736 --> 00:37:02,616
Speaker 2: Now I was looking at, looking at me and saying, wow, man,

782
00:37:02,636 --> 00:37:05,396
Speaker 2: this dude went all the way in. I'm like, of course,

783
00:37:06,276 --> 00:37:07,116
Speaker 2: of course I did.

784
00:37:07,356 --> 00:37:12,626
Speaker 1: Damn. That must've been, Bernard Edwards is ridiculous. Yeah. Of

785
00:37:12,646 --> 00:37:14,066
Speaker 1: all the bass players we talked about today, I feel

786
00:37:14,086 --> 00:37:16,446
Speaker 1: like he might be the most underappreciated, you know?

787
00:37:17,346 --> 00:37:22,776
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's, he, he's, He's celebrated, though. People do celebrate Bernard.

788
00:37:24,216 --> 00:37:29,796
Speaker 2: I even feel like Queen took a piece of Another

789
00:37:29,816 --> 00:37:33,606
Speaker 2: One Bites the Dust. It's from Good Times. Yeah, for sure.

790
00:37:34,906 --> 00:37:39,106
Speaker 2: Another One Bites the Dust. That was smart. That's a

791
00:37:39,126 --> 00:37:42,586
Speaker 2: nice bite. That's a nice little....

792
00:37:46,526 --> 00:37:48,136
Speaker 1: You can't be mad at it. I love Queen.

793
00:37:48,196 --> 00:37:50,296
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's a nice bike.

794
00:37:50,336 --> 00:37:52,256
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It is ridiculous. It stands out in their

795
00:37:52,276 --> 00:37:55,696
Speaker 1: catalog though. It was like, that's a, that's a, um,

796
00:37:57,316 --> 00:38:00,216
Speaker 1: how was, uh, tell me about the Beyonce sessions, man,

797
00:38:00,376 --> 00:38:04,016
Speaker 1: or how the, the, the work on that came to be. Cause, um,

798
00:38:04,536 --> 00:38:08,006
Speaker 1: I was, you know, the singles were, were great. 16

799
00:38:08,006 --> 00:38:11,146
Speaker 1: carriages was particularly my favorite of the early singles. And

800
00:38:11,166 --> 00:38:12,566
Speaker 1: I know you worked on both of those, but then

801
00:38:13,386 --> 00:38:16,756
Speaker 1: when the album came out, I was kind of, And American,

802
00:38:18,886 --> 00:38:23,086
Speaker 1: what was the top? American Requiem came on. I was like,

803
00:38:24,426 --> 00:38:25,466
Speaker 1: I got to really listen.

804
00:38:25,566 --> 00:38:30,486
Speaker 2: Well, they did a great job of having the right

805
00:38:30,526 --> 00:38:39,486
Speaker 2: people in the room. I always tell people about Beyonce's,

806
00:38:40,846 --> 00:38:44,606
Speaker 2: her ear. in her like, you know, decision-making is the

807
00:38:44,646 --> 00:38:46,626
Speaker 2: most important thing you could be as an artist. Somebody

808
00:38:46,666 --> 00:38:50,366
Speaker 2: that tours, somebody that makes records, somebody who knows their audience.

809
00:38:51,006 --> 00:38:54,186
Speaker 2: So if you know your audience, it's easy to have

810
00:38:54,226 --> 00:38:57,886
Speaker 2: musicians in the room that you think can push forward

811
00:38:57,906 --> 00:39:00,626
Speaker 2: what you're trying to do. And so for, for me,

812
00:39:02,126 --> 00:39:03,646
Speaker 2: you know, Dream was in the room.

813
00:39:04,066 --> 00:39:04,266
Speaker 1: Yeah.

814
00:39:06,186 --> 00:39:09,336
Speaker 2: A lot of great musicians. So we took songs and I,

815
00:39:10,526 --> 00:39:13,266
Speaker 2: changed some songs around, you know, but then it was

816
00:39:13,326 --> 00:39:15,566
Speaker 2: great things on the record already. So I just had

817
00:39:15,606 --> 00:39:18,916
Speaker 2: a great, it was almost like, it was almost like

818
00:39:18,936 --> 00:39:22,936
Speaker 2: the all-star team, you know, with people that I didn't know,

819
00:39:23,256 --> 00:39:27,436
Speaker 2: like the, the banjo playing, you know, with, you know.

820
00:39:27,576 --> 00:39:28,656
Speaker 1: Yeah, Rihanna Giddens.

821
00:39:28,956 --> 00:39:32,776
Speaker 2: Rihanna Giddens, who like, that record wouldn't be that record without.

822
00:39:32,306 --> 00:39:34,496
Speaker 1: Her doing that. That banjo part's amazing.

823
00:39:34,496 --> 00:39:36,486
Speaker 2: Right, so, I think that's, I just I think they

824
00:39:36,546 --> 00:39:38,566
Speaker 2: ain't already great they had a great team they they

825
00:39:38,586 --> 00:39:39,926
Speaker 2: had great people was.

826
00:39:39,826 --> 00:39:41,846
Speaker 1: That banjo part on there but when you first heard the.

827
00:39:41,806 --> 00:39:47,836
Speaker 2: Song no no but she knew like she wanted to

828
00:39:48,596 --> 00:39:51,316
Speaker 2: have it on the record and you always want to

829
00:39:51,516 --> 00:39:54,676
Speaker 2: always I love working with people who know what they

830
00:39:54,736 --> 00:39:58,026
Speaker 2: want yeah it makes producing fun you know, or being

831
00:39:58,066 --> 00:39:59,186
Speaker 2: a part of something fun.

832
00:39:59,286 --> 00:40:02,246
Speaker 1: Yeah. What was the, what was the ask of you? Like,

833
00:40:02,306 --> 00:40:05,866
Speaker 1: what was like, what, what did you feel like you were? Why,

834
00:40:06,006 --> 00:40:07,026
Speaker 1: why was I in the room?

835
00:40:07,046 --> 00:40:07,186
Speaker 2: Yeah.

836
00:40:07,206 --> 00:40:07,626
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

837
00:40:07,926 --> 00:40:10,946
Speaker 2: I think I was in a room because I, I take,

838
00:40:14,546 --> 00:40:19,826
Speaker 2: I'm coachable and I take instructions and I can, I

839
00:40:19,866 --> 00:40:22,086
Speaker 2: can do what you asked me to do. And I

840
00:40:22,106 --> 00:40:25,636
Speaker 2: actually love what I do. And I love actually knowing

841
00:40:25,656 --> 00:40:29,526
Speaker 2: that somebody is going to, you dished them a dime,

842
00:40:30,306 --> 00:40:34,046
Speaker 2: they about to go dunk it. That's my inspiration for me.

843
00:40:34,106 --> 00:40:38,176
Speaker 2: I think they know, like, you know, I could be

844
00:40:38,196 --> 00:40:40,416
Speaker 2: in a room and work with people. And it's more

845
00:40:40,456 --> 00:40:43,896
Speaker 2: about the camaraderie of working with others, you know, and

846
00:40:43,936 --> 00:40:47,296
Speaker 2: not being like, I'm a producer. Instead of like, no,

847
00:40:47,876 --> 00:40:50,716
Speaker 2: we're in a room, like, we have instruments, and we,

848
00:40:51,176 --> 00:40:52,336
Speaker 2: it's time to get it done.

849
00:40:52,626 --> 00:40:52,916
Speaker 1: Yeah.

850
00:40:53,476 --> 00:40:56,386
Speaker 2: And I think that's why I was in the room, because...

851
00:40:57,296 --> 00:40:58,906
Speaker 2: I can play in many genres.

852
00:40:59,146 --> 00:41:01,666
Speaker 1: Yeah. But you can also play a lot of parts.

853
00:41:01,686 --> 00:41:03,146
Speaker 1: So it's like when you're in there with your set,

854
00:41:03,166 --> 00:41:07,046
Speaker 1: like your musician hat on or producer, like the dreams already,

855
00:41:07,086 --> 00:41:09,946
Speaker 1: like how do you balance that? There's so many people, man.

856
00:41:10,026 --> 00:41:12,946
Speaker 2: I'm only, well, sometimes I'm in the room by myself

857
00:41:13,086 --> 00:41:14,826
Speaker 2: and some of the stuff I did here.

858
00:41:15,306 --> 00:41:16,526
Speaker 1: Like they sent you stuff?

859
00:41:16,606 --> 00:41:20,126
Speaker 2: I was sending stuff too that was already, like Bodyguard

860
00:41:20,146 --> 00:41:24,326
Speaker 2: was pretty much a song that I did, you know.

861
00:41:25,156 --> 00:41:27,516
Speaker 1: You wrote that I wrote that alone cause you do

862
00:41:27,536 --> 00:41:28,956
Speaker 1: the is that you doing the count off.

863
00:41:28,996 --> 00:41:32,576
Speaker 2: Yeah on Bodyguard yeah she kept it counting yeah but

864
00:41:32,596 --> 00:41:35,276
Speaker 2: I wasn't even gonna like play that song that was

865
00:41:35,336 --> 00:41:36,836
Speaker 2: another song and she heard it and she said what's

866
00:41:36,876 --> 00:41:39,916
Speaker 2: that she got an ear like that and that's why

867
00:41:39,956 --> 00:41:43,726
Speaker 2: I said not many artists could take a song like

868
00:41:43,786 --> 00:41:47,686
Speaker 2: Bodyguard and say I like this song and I wanna

869
00:41:47,706 --> 00:41:50,086
Speaker 2: make it a record they wrote some changed some lyrics

870
00:41:50,746 --> 00:41:55,416
Speaker 2: and did different things but it's only Maybe two people

871
00:41:55,436 --> 00:41:59,436
Speaker 2: I know that takes some of the stuff that nobody

872
00:41:59,456 --> 00:42:04,566
Speaker 2: would take from me. That's Beyonce, now, and D'Angelo.

873
00:42:05,066 --> 00:42:05,306
Speaker 1: Wow.

874
00:42:06,046 --> 00:42:06,626
Speaker 2: And Solange.

875
00:42:07,926 --> 00:42:09,906
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, right. Solange, too. Right.

876
00:42:10,426 --> 00:42:13,186
Speaker 2: That'll take some, like, I wouldn't even play some things

877
00:42:13,226 --> 00:42:14,836
Speaker 2: for people because I know they might be like, oh,

878
00:42:14,836 --> 00:42:18,716
Speaker 2: that's just way too, like, you know. But you know

879
00:42:18,756 --> 00:42:21,316
Speaker 2: the great ones. The great ones, they want to dive in. Yeah.

880
00:42:22,906 --> 00:42:25,436
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Raphael Sadiq after

881
00:42:25,456 --> 00:42:32,676
Speaker 1: the break. Here's the rest of my conversation with Raphael Sadiq.

882
00:42:32,696 --> 00:42:35,636
Speaker 1: Can you tell me the story of Cranes in the Sky?

883
00:42:36,116 --> 00:42:39,396
Speaker 2: Cranes in the Sky was already eight years old, the

884
00:42:39,416 --> 00:42:43,766
Speaker 2: music was. And I was really singing something. That's what

885
00:42:43,786 --> 00:42:53,126
Speaker 2: I was doing, something crazy like that. And when I

886
00:42:53,146 --> 00:42:56,036
Speaker 2: met Solange, we were both doing these 60s records at first.

887
00:42:56,696 --> 00:42:58,036
Speaker 2: And then we were going to hook up, and I

888
00:42:58,076 --> 00:43:02,536
Speaker 2: wanted her to write for me, with me for that song,

889
00:43:03,236 --> 00:43:03,636
Speaker 2: for me.

890
00:43:03,916 --> 00:43:04,536
Speaker 1: For your album.

891
00:43:04,676 --> 00:43:07,146
Speaker 2: Right. So she had a copy of it, but I

892
00:43:07,186 --> 00:43:09,746
Speaker 2: think it had my vocal on it. But then she

893
00:43:09,786 --> 00:43:14,386
Speaker 2: wrote something for herself. And it was years later, maybe

894
00:43:14,406 --> 00:43:17,996
Speaker 2: a few years later, but it was already eight years old.

895
00:43:18,996 --> 00:43:19,296
Speaker 1: And....

896
00:43:22,256 --> 00:43:25,776
Speaker 2: I didn't have a copy of it I didn't have

897
00:43:25,816 --> 00:43:28,596
Speaker 2: a clean copy you gave her the actual she didn't

898
00:43:28,616 --> 00:43:33,886
Speaker 2: have it either we never had a copy wow so

899
00:43:33,906 --> 00:43:37,586
Speaker 2: when she was calling me asking me for a clean

900
00:43:37,626 --> 00:43:40,686
Speaker 2: version with no lyrics I didn't have it so a

901
00:43:40,726 --> 00:43:43,886
Speaker 2: good friend of mine Conrad who lived up in Portland

902
00:43:43,926 --> 00:43:47,856
Speaker 2: is a videographer and he sometimes takes my songs and

903
00:43:48,836 --> 00:43:52,296
Speaker 2: sort of makes short films And so I was talking

904
00:43:52,316 --> 00:43:55,636
Speaker 2: to him about, he said, you know, I have a

905
00:43:55,916 --> 00:44:01,456
Speaker 2: copy of it on a CD, on a disc. So

906
00:44:01,506 --> 00:44:02,646
Speaker 2: that's the only thing we had.

907
00:44:02,666 --> 00:44:05,876
Speaker 1: Because you had sent it to him just to....

908
00:44:07,486 --> 00:44:07,866
Speaker 2: That was it.

909
00:44:07,926 --> 00:44:09,706
Speaker 1: Just so he could make a film with it?

910
00:44:09,786 --> 00:44:12,806
Speaker 2: I like a little short film shooting some friends and like,

911
00:44:12,826 --> 00:44:14,836
Speaker 2: you know, just some stuff on the street.

912
00:44:15,166 --> 00:44:16,326
Speaker 1: How the hell did he get on that list?

913
00:44:18,126 --> 00:44:21,686
Speaker 2: Yeah. Conrad Montgomery. He's a track and field coach. He's

914
00:44:21,786 --> 00:44:25,966
Speaker 2: a good friend of Nile Rodgers. And we run together.

915
00:44:26,966 --> 00:44:30,396
Speaker 2: We run together. He taught me really how to run.

916
00:44:31,096 --> 00:44:34,946
Speaker 2: He's a track and field guy. And he had it.

917
00:44:35,076 --> 00:44:39,176
Speaker 2: And I said, the only one I have is on

918
00:44:39,776 --> 00:44:45,516
Speaker 2: a disc. And so that record's nothing separated. that's the

919
00:44:45,556 --> 00:44:46,336
Speaker 2: record that came out.

920
00:44:46,436 --> 00:44:48,416
Speaker 1: Wow. So you ripped it from that.

921
00:44:49,176 --> 00:44:51,456
Speaker 2: She's just saying over the, just put that in pro

922
00:44:51,476 --> 00:44:53,576
Speaker 2: tools and saying over, over top on the.

923
00:44:53,556 --> 00:44:59,106
Speaker 1: Top of it. Wow. Yeah. That's, that's, that's wild. Yeah.

924
00:44:59,766 --> 00:45:01,786
Speaker 2: So when it works, it works. Sometimes you don't even,

925
00:45:02,186 --> 00:45:04,106
Speaker 2: I mean, we, I think they compressed it and mixed

926
00:45:04,186 --> 00:45:06,726
Speaker 2: it that way, like with compression and make it, you know,

927
00:45:06,746 --> 00:45:10,426
Speaker 2: but pretty much it was, you know, the bass was there.

928
00:45:10,866 --> 00:45:15,936
Speaker 2: The drums is already there. Um, Melatron is that Melatron

929
00:45:15,956 --> 00:45:16,336
Speaker 2: right there.

930
00:45:16,856 --> 00:45:17,096
Speaker 1: Wow.

931
00:45:18,416 --> 00:45:21,636
Speaker 2: And it has work, so it kind of cracks and

932
00:45:21,656 --> 00:45:26,116
Speaker 2: does some weird shit. So no Melatron sounds like that

933
00:45:26,156 --> 00:45:29,096
Speaker 2: Melatron because of that. So I never get it fixed

934
00:45:29,936 --> 00:45:33,336
Speaker 2: because of that. But it was all on that record.

935
00:45:33,956 --> 00:45:38,086
Speaker 2: It was not anything recorded. Only thing that was recorded

936
00:45:38,126 --> 00:45:42,066
Speaker 2: over was my nephew Dylan played. He played another, he

937
00:45:42,106 --> 00:45:46,996
Speaker 2: played an acoustic piano. an upright piano, or he played

938
00:45:47,036 --> 00:45:49,186
Speaker 2: a grand piano on top of it. Then Solange added

939
00:45:49,206 --> 00:45:53,486
Speaker 2: some like crazy, like bell was just like, boom, she

940
00:45:53,546 --> 00:45:57,366
Speaker 2: added that. But everything else was pretty much already multi-tracked

941
00:45:57,466 --> 00:45:59,206
Speaker 2: and we couldn't separate anything.

942
00:45:59,306 --> 00:46:00,746
Speaker 1: Did she record that here with you or did she

943
00:46:00,786 --> 00:46:01,886
Speaker 1: do it on her own?

944
00:46:02,926 --> 00:46:05,966
Speaker 2: Did she? I think she recorded Korean too.

945
00:46:06,386 --> 00:46:06,526
Speaker 1: Wow.

946
00:46:06,546 --> 00:46:08,926
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

947
00:46:09,606 --> 00:46:12,506
Speaker 1: That's wild that that's the origins of that song, man.

948
00:46:12,546 --> 00:46:12,906
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

949
00:46:13,866 --> 00:46:15,486
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like that's a, that's a,

950
00:46:15,546 --> 00:46:18,906
Speaker 1: that's a Grammy winning project, man, that you just was

951
00:46:18,946 --> 00:46:21,926
Speaker 1: like discarded and with some track coaching. Yeah.

952
00:46:21,966 --> 00:46:26,496
Speaker 2: Sometimes you just have to make music and to make music.

953
00:46:26,536 --> 00:46:28,756
Speaker 2: Cause I don't make music to, to give to one,

954
00:46:28,816 --> 00:46:31,256
Speaker 2: to give to anyone. I give, I'll make music to

955
00:46:31,296 --> 00:46:35,196
Speaker 2: sort of entertain myself. Cause I love music that much

956
00:46:35,296 --> 00:46:38,276
Speaker 2: that I just want to hear it. If I come in,

957
00:46:38,376 --> 00:46:40,296
Speaker 2: if I come in the studio, I want to hear music.

958
00:46:40,316 --> 00:46:42,726
Speaker 2: Sometime I come to the studio and I don't even know,

959
00:46:43,916 --> 00:46:46,446
Speaker 2: I don't even play any music. I just, I might

960
00:46:46,486 --> 00:46:50,086
Speaker 2: play Madden or something. Like the arcade, the old one,

961
00:46:50,126 --> 00:46:53,306
Speaker 2: like when Tom, when like McNabb was the quarterback.

962
00:46:53,606 --> 00:46:55,286
Speaker 1: Okay, all right. Yeah. Going back.

963
00:46:55,546 --> 00:46:57,166
Speaker 2: Yeah.

964
00:46:57,186 --> 00:46:59,086
Speaker 1: So you played with, okay, yeah, McNabb.

965
00:46:59,166 --> 00:47:03,856
Speaker 2: I played with McNabb and then Terrell Owens is the receiver.

966
00:47:04,116 --> 00:47:05,456
Speaker 2: He catches everything right out there.

967
00:47:06,756 --> 00:47:08,096
Speaker 1: You don't play with the Raiders?

968
00:47:09,316 --> 00:47:11,436
Speaker 2: Every Blue Moon, I played with the Raiders. The Raiders

969
00:47:11,456 --> 00:47:12,456
Speaker 2: wasn't that good that year.

970
00:47:13,296 --> 00:47:13,816
Speaker 1: Okay.

971
00:47:13,856 --> 00:47:16,136
Speaker 2: But sometimes, you know, sometimes I play with the Raiders.

972
00:47:16,676 --> 00:47:17,916
Speaker 2: I am definitely a Raiders fan.

973
00:47:17,956 --> 00:47:19,176
Speaker 1: I mean, come on. That's tough, man.

974
00:47:19,476 --> 00:47:21,456
Speaker 2: I'm a Raiders fan, though. No, don't get it twisted.

975
00:47:21,496 --> 00:47:22,796
Speaker 2: But if I'm playing arcade.

976
00:47:22,816 --> 00:47:23,716
Speaker 1: I don't do it. Okay.

977
00:47:23,896 --> 00:47:24,176
Speaker 2: All right.

978
00:47:24,216 --> 00:47:25,356
Speaker 1: You got to go with the Eagles on that.

979
00:47:25,856 --> 00:47:27,196
Speaker 2: I got to go with the Eagles or I have

980
00:47:27,236 --> 00:47:30,026
Speaker 2: to go with the best defense on that game. I

981
00:47:30,066 --> 00:47:33,586
Speaker 2: would say somebody like Rick Ross would probably say, no,

982
00:47:33,666 --> 00:47:35,986
Speaker 2: that's not you because I heard he's really good on arcade.

983
00:47:36,006 --> 00:47:36,346
Speaker 1: Oh, really?

984
00:47:37,386 --> 00:47:40,106
Speaker 2: I would say Green Bay. I like to play with

985
00:47:40,146 --> 00:47:43,376
Speaker 2: Green Bay. Kansas city because they had priest homes as

986
00:47:43,416 --> 00:47:46,196
Speaker 2: a running back at the time. So I just like

987
00:47:46,236 --> 00:47:48,336
Speaker 2: to play with the players to do special things.

988
00:47:48,356 --> 00:47:50,356
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know you were a video game guy.

989
00:47:51,176 --> 00:47:51,516
Speaker 2: Yeah.

990
00:47:51,616 --> 00:47:51,816
Speaker 1: Yeah.

991
00:47:51,916 --> 00:47:53,036
Speaker 2: I'm a video game company.

992
00:47:53,416 --> 00:47:53,696
Speaker 1: You do?

993
00:47:53,816 --> 00:47:55,296
Speaker 2: Yeah. We make games. It's called ill phonic.

994
00:47:55,876 --> 00:47:56,136
Speaker 1: Wow.

995
00:47:56,356 --> 00:48:00,876
Speaker 2: Ill phonic. We did a Friday the 13th, Friday, 13th, uh,

996
00:48:01,576 --> 00:48:02,636
Speaker 2: state ghostbusters.

997
00:48:04,656 --> 00:48:06,076
Speaker 1: Um, so my.

998
00:48:05,996 --> 00:48:10,126
Speaker 2: Engineer who've, who recorded the way I see it and, um,

999
00:48:12,166 --> 00:48:17,226
Speaker 2: Jimmy Lee, he mixed it. And Stone Rolling, his name

1000
00:48:17,246 --> 00:48:21,206
Speaker 2: is Chuck Brungard. So we started a video game company

1001
00:48:21,766 --> 00:48:25,306
Speaker 2: almost 12, 13 years ago. Because we were in the business,

1002
00:48:25,366 --> 00:48:29,246
Speaker 2: we were trying to make records and we couldn't fit

1003
00:48:29,286 --> 00:48:32,446
Speaker 2: the system of, you know, we work on a record,

1004
00:48:32,466 --> 00:48:34,506
Speaker 2: they'd have somebody else mix it. And it was just

1005
00:48:34,646 --> 00:48:38,146
Speaker 2: getting kind of weird. So I came up with this

1006
00:48:38,266 --> 00:48:43,366
Speaker 2: idea to start a video game company. Um, because it

1007
00:48:43,406 --> 00:48:45,566
Speaker 2: was a joke about it. So, um, what's the death

1008
00:48:45,586 --> 00:48:49,886
Speaker 2: jam game? Um, it's a fight game.

1009
00:48:50,546 --> 00:48:50,746
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1010
00:48:50,806 --> 00:48:54,166
Speaker 2: It was the rush, the rush. Um, anyway, a friend

1011
00:48:54,206 --> 00:48:55,836
Speaker 2: works for the company. It was all these rappers and

1012
00:48:55,856 --> 00:48:58,836
Speaker 2: it was a fight game. And I was like, I'm like,

1013
00:48:58,856 --> 00:48:59,996
Speaker 2: you got to build me in the game. And my

1014
00:49:00,016 --> 00:49:01,516
Speaker 2: friend was like, we don't put R and B people

1015
00:49:01,536 --> 00:49:03,596
Speaker 2: in the game. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna

1016
00:49:03,616 --> 00:49:07,766
Speaker 2: make my own game. And I'm called a ghetto golf. And,

1017
00:49:08,966 --> 00:49:11,686
Speaker 2: and we just laugh. And so when she left, my

1018
00:49:11,726 --> 00:49:14,526
Speaker 2: partner Chuck goes, you know, if you really want to

1019
00:49:14,546 --> 00:49:17,596
Speaker 2: start a game company, you know, that's what I do for,

1020
00:49:17,616 --> 00:49:21,176
Speaker 2: I went to school for programming. I'm saying, let's do it.

1021
00:49:21,176 --> 00:49:23,816
Speaker 2: Let's call it Illphonic because Illmatic is my favorite hip

1022
00:49:23,836 --> 00:49:26,526
Speaker 2: hop album, one of them. So I called it Illphonic

1023
00:49:27,486 --> 00:49:30,416
Speaker 2: and then maybe like the next month, we had like

1024
00:49:30,456 --> 00:49:34,316
Speaker 2: this test game of ghetto golf. And from there we

1025
00:49:34,336 --> 00:49:36,946
Speaker 2: started taking it into publishers for about a year or two.

1026
00:49:37,066 --> 00:49:39,566
Speaker 2: And then the next thing we were, you know, I

1027
00:49:39,566 --> 00:49:44,406
Speaker 2: was at all the conference game conferences. And I just

1028
00:49:44,446 --> 00:49:46,556
Speaker 2: kept it on the low because I felt like, um,

1029
00:49:47,836 --> 00:49:50,956
Speaker 2: Gamers don't really care about musicians having, you know, having

1030
00:49:50,976 --> 00:49:52,146
Speaker 2: a game company.

1031
00:49:52,286 --> 00:49:52,486
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1032
00:49:52,686 --> 00:49:53,906
Speaker 2: It's about the gamers.

1033
00:49:53,926 --> 00:49:56,306
Speaker 1: It's on the strength of the game itself.

1034
00:49:56,466 --> 00:49:58,646
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's about them. It's not about me. It's not

1035
00:49:58,686 --> 00:50:03,166
Speaker 2: about Chuck. And so then we kept going. Um, then

1036
00:50:03,226 --> 00:50:07,216
Speaker 2: we moved the company to Denver, Colorado, and now it's

1037
00:50:07,256 --> 00:50:09,216
Speaker 2: in Colorado and it's in Tacoma.

1038
00:50:09,856 --> 00:50:11,436
Speaker 1: Wow. And it's still, it's active.

1039
00:50:11,496 --> 00:50:12,396
Speaker 2: It's active right now.

1040
00:50:12,676 --> 00:50:17,816
Speaker 1: Wow. What games are you developing? Um, Wow.

1041
00:50:19,396 --> 00:50:22,176
Speaker 2: I always blow this title, and they will kill me

1042
00:50:22,196 --> 00:50:23,256
Speaker 2: if I say this, so I'm just not going to

1043
00:50:23,336 --> 00:50:23,656
Speaker 2: say it.

1044
00:50:23,816 --> 00:50:24,046
Speaker 1: Okay.

1045
00:50:24,356 --> 00:50:27,106
Speaker 2: Because one time I spoke on a game, and I

1046
00:50:27,126 --> 00:50:29,906
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to, and it was like I just blew

1047
00:50:29,946 --> 00:50:31,426
Speaker 2: up the world or something.

1048
00:50:31,566 --> 00:50:33,826
Speaker 1: Okay. We don't got to go there then. Yeah, yeah.

1049
00:50:33,846 --> 00:50:36,066
Speaker 1: You should revive the Def Jam game. That sounds incredible.

1050
00:50:36,166 --> 00:50:38,606
Speaker 2: I don't know how I missed that. Yeah. It was

1051
00:50:38,666 --> 00:50:40,376
Speaker 2: a good game. M & M was in it.

1052
00:50:41,126 --> 00:50:41,386
Speaker 1: Really?

1053
00:50:42,026 --> 00:50:46,386
Speaker 2: Yeah. Buster Runs. I don't know why I can't think

1054
00:50:46,426 --> 00:50:48,806
Speaker 2: of the name of the game. I love games. But

1055
00:50:48,826 --> 00:50:53,086
Speaker 2: I play more sports games than I do first-person shooter games,

1056
00:50:53,126 --> 00:50:57,096
Speaker 2: which I really want to start playing more first-person shooter games.

1057
00:50:57,116 --> 00:50:59,476
Speaker 2: You just got to put a lot of time into that.

1058
00:51:00,276 --> 00:51:03,716
Speaker 2: I'm still like Call of Duty. I'm still getting blown

1059
00:51:03,796 --> 00:51:05,776
Speaker 2: up on the first stage. I'm like, you got to

1060
00:51:05,816 --> 00:51:10,336
Speaker 2: keep going. I can't follow the– I can't look at the–

1061
00:51:10,866 --> 00:51:12,046
Speaker 2: I can't look at it and follow it.

1062
00:51:12,066 --> 00:51:12,266
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1063
00:51:12,466 --> 00:51:14,926
Speaker 2: So I think I should just get better on piano instead.

1064
00:51:14,946 --> 00:51:16,846
Speaker 1: That's a better, that's a better move, man.

1065
00:51:16,866 --> 00:51:17,646
Speaker 2: That's what I'm going to do.

1066
00:51:17,816 --> 00:51:19,096
Speaker 1: That's about the time I got out of games. I

1067
00:51:19,096 --> 00:51:20,476
Speaker 1: was like, well, I got to spend like, you know,

1068
00:51:20,516 --> 00:51:22,396
Speaker 1: I got to train for the game. I'm like, man,

1069
00:51:22,516 --> 00:51:24,236
Speaker 1: I can't really be involved with this.

1070
00:51:24,256 --> 00:51:26,716
Speaker 2: I can't catch any passes on like Madden and new.

1071
00:51:26,756 --> 00:51:30,156
Speaker 2: Like it's just, it's like, just, it is bounce off

1072
00:51:30,196 --> 00:51:32,026
Speaker 2: my fingers. I'm like, is there a button? I'm always

1073
00:51:32,086 --> 00:51:34,326
Speaker 2: asking kids, is there a button that the fingers do

1074
00:51:34,346 --> 00:51:36,486
Speaker 2: like this to catch the ball? Because I can't, I

1075
00:51:36,506 --> 00:51:39,586
Speaker 2: could throw a short pass, a screen. But if I'm

1076
00:51:39,626 --> 00:51:41,216
Speaker 2: going for a bomb, it's like....

1077
00:51:42,856 --> 00:51:44,176
Speaker 1: You got to go to training camp, man.

1078
00:51:44,216 --> 00:51:45,316
Speaker 2: I got to go to training camp. You got to

1079
00:51:45,496 --> 00:51:46,006
Speaker 2: go figure it out.

1080
00:51:46,036 --> 00:51:46,996
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's too much time on that.

1081
00:51:47,016 --> 00:51:47,856
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's too much time.

1082
00:51:48,536 --> 00:51:49,736
Speaker 1: You know, I want to ask you, speaking of rap,

1083
00:51:49,756 --> 00:51:52,076
Speaker 1: you brought up Illmatic, made me think of The Chronic,

1084
00:51:52,116 --> 00:51:53,616
Speaker 1: because I always think of those two albums in my

1085
00:51:53,636 --> 00:51:56,716
Speaker 1: mind for some reason, different years, but just incredible debut

1086
00:51:56,796 --> 00:51:57,396
Speaker 1: rap albums.

1087
00:51:57,646 --> 00:51:57,856
Speaker 2: Right.

1088
00:51:58,506 --> 00:52:04,886
Speaker 1: But Chronic 2, still DRE, and you did still Ray.

1089
00:52:05,226 --> 00:52:05,906
Speaker 2: Right, yeah.

1090
00:52:06,186 --> 00:52:09,376
Speaker 1: On Instant Vintage. Yeah, that was a... It feels like a,

1091
00:52:09,576 --> 00:52:10,416
Speaker 1: speaking of like a good, like.

1092
00:52:10,436 --> 00:52:11,956
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good bite. That was a great bite.

1093
00:52:11,976 --> 00:52:12,636
Speaker 1: It's a great bite.

1094
00:52:12,656 --> 00:52:16,276
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm a huge Dre fan.

1095
00:52:16,996 --> 00:52:18,776
Speaker 2: You know, his name is Dre, mine is Ray. And

1096
00:52:19,416 --> 00:52:21,446
Speaker 2: I was like, hmm. And you know, Dre always have

1097
00:52:21,486 --> 00:52:24,646
Speaker 2: those lyrics. And this is motherfucking thanks I get. I

1098
00:52:24,686 --> 00:52:25,946
Speaker 2: kind of feel like Dre sometimes.

1099
00:52:26,926 --> 00:52:27,606
Speaker 1: That's how you feel?

1100
00:52:27,926 --> 00:52:30,106
Speaker 2: No, not really. But I love that lyric. And this

1101
00:52:30,166 --> 00:52:34,756
Speaker 2: is motherfucking thanks I get. But when that was like, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling,

1102
00:52:34,896 --> 00:52:37,216
Speaker 2: I was like, let's turn that into like a lullaby,

1103
00:52:37,236 --> 00:52:43,596
Speaker 2: like a pretty song, like the hardest song that everybody's, boom, boom, boom, boom.

1104
00:52:43,676 --> 00:52:49,036
Speaker 2: I'm like, let's turn that to, I'm coming home to you.

1105
00:52:49,136 --> 00:52:50,016
Speaker 2: I'll keep it going.

1106
00:52:50,076 --> 00:52:52,016
Speaker 1: Hold on. That's too nice. Hold on.

1107
00:52:52,396 --> 00:52:54,046
Speaker 2: I'm like, let's flip it. Let's put it on his

1108
00:52:54,086 --> 00:52:58,826
Speaker 2: head and let's change it. I'm coming home to you

1109
00:52:59,806 --> 00:53:06,426
Speaker 2: where something see-through. You know, it just happened just really fast. Yeah,

1110
00:53:06,446 --> 00:53:08,756
Speaker 2: but I was definitely inspired by.

1111
00:53:08,976 --> 00:53:10,116
Speaker 1: Did you hear from Dre on that?

1112
00:53:11,716 --> 00:53:12,056
Speaker 2: Nah.

1113
00:53:12,476 --> 00:53:13,556
Speaker 1: I bet he appreciates it, though.

1114
00:53:13,996 --> 00:53:16,896
Speaker 2: Oh, no, definitely, definitely got to, like, you know, Dre

1115
00:53:16,936 --> 00:53:18,096
Speaker 2: is a music guy, you know.

1116
00:53:18,116 --> 00:53:20,976
Speaker 1: And y'all both worked with Don Robinson.

1117
00:53:21,016 --> 00:53:21,876
Speaker 2: We both did, yeah.

1118
00:53:21,936 --> 00:53:22,216
Speaker 1: From Vogue.

1119
00:53:22,356 --> 00:53:24,756
Speaker 2: We both did, yeah. We both have stories.

1120
00:53:25,796 --> 00:53:27,126
Speaker 1: Okay, of working with Don.

1121
00:53:27,456 --> 00:53:28,826
Speaker 2: Good stories, good stories.

1122
00:53:30,586 --> 00:53:33,786
Speaker 1: Can you share what you think? It's the one you can...

1123
00:53:34,466 --> 00:53:35,796
Speaker 1: Did you know En Vogue from Oakland?

1124
00:53:36,606 --> 00:53:36,936
Speaker 2: I did.

1125
00:53:36,956 --> 00:53:38,856
Speaker 1: They are, I feel like.

1126
00:53:39,176 --> 00:53:44,036
Speaker 2: Bad girls. I mean, beautiful, talented. Insane singers, man. Some

1127
00:53:44,056 --> 00:53:46,396
Speaker 2: of the nicest people. And we sort of came from

1128
00:53:46,416 --> 00:53:50,516
Speaker 2: the same camp with Denzel Foster and Thomas McElroy.

1129
00:53:50,876 --> 00:53:53,746
Speaker 1: Right, which they did the I Got Five On It.

1130
00:53:53,776 --> 00:53:56,936
Speaker 2: They did I Got Five On It. They did Lean

1131
00:53:57,066 --> 00:53:59,466
Speaker 2: On Me with Club Nuvo.

1132
00:54:00,146 --> 00:54:00,366
Speaker 1: Right.

1133
00:54:00,386 --> 00:54:07,266
Speaker 2: They did... I mean, Situation, Situation No. 9 for Club Nuvo. And, um,

1134
00:54:07,626 --> 00:54:14,276
Speaker 2: that's just five on it. But they did, um, Engine No. 9.

1135
00:54:14,276 --> 00:54:16,836
Speaker 2: They just, uh, and they signed us. We came, the

1136
00:54:16,916 --> 00:54:20,436
Speaker 2: Tonys went through to Tough Enough Production. They found us.

1137
00:54:20,476 --> 00:54:21,136
Speaker 2: They signed us.

1138
00:54:21,276 --> 00:54:21,856
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

1139
00:54:21,916 --> 00:54:24,776
Speaker 2: They're responsible for, they had a reason why I'm sitting

1140
00:54:24,796 --> 00:54:28,246
Speaker 2: here talking to you. Wow. Yeah. I still talk to them.

1141
00:54:28,286 --> 00:54:30,766
Speaker 2: I mean, I talk to them pretty much, you know,

1142
00:54:30,786 --> 00:54:34,876
Speaker 2: a couple times a month. You know, Denny, Denny's a golfer.

1143
00:54:35,176 --> 00:54:37,656
Speaker 2: He plays golf. So he tries to get me out

1144
00:54:37,676 --> 00:54:42,476
Speaker 2: there and playing golf. I'm not good though, but I'm trying.

1145
00:54:43,136 --> 00:54:47,956
Speaker 2: And Tommy is just, Tommy started, he started fighting. He

1146
00:54:47,976 --> 00:54:50,596
Speaker 2: became a fighter. He always had, he was always a

1147
00:54:50,696 --> 00:54:53,706
Speaker 2: martial arts guy. And then I think he became a,

1148
00:54:53,686 --> 00:54:57,006
Speaker 2: what do you call, he was a martial arts fighter.

1149
00:54:57,046 --> 00:54:57,766
Speaker 1: He was fighting.

1150
00:54:57,986 --> 00:54:59,486
Speaker 2: Yeah. He started doing that.

1151
00:54:59,646 --> 00:54:59,786
Speaker 1: Wow.

1152
00:55:00,906 --> 00:55:02,786
Speaker 2: He said he got hit really hard and then he stopped.

1153
00:55:02,806 --> 00:55:04,746
Speaker 2: That's a good reason to stop.

1154
00:55:04,786 --> 00:55:05,946
Speaker 1: That's why I never started with that.

1155
00:55:07,626 --> 00:55:10,336
Speaker 2: And yeah. And, um, yeah, but yeah, those guys, I'm

1156
00:55:10,356 --> 00:55:15,656
Speaker 2: really responsible for, you know, um, so that's how we

1157
00:55:15,696 --> 00:55:18,696
Speaker 2: got to Mercury. Wow. That's how we got there through

1158
00:55:18,716 --> 00:55:21,896
Speaker 2: those guys. And, um, I'm, I'm lucky to have them

1159
00:55:21,956 --> 00:55:23,916
Speaker 2: in my, in my, you know, my career because I

1160
00:55:24,726 --> 00:55:26,686
Speaker 2: learned a lot by just by listening to them.

1161
00:55:28,366 --> 00:55:32,906
Speaker 1: That's amazing, man. Um, How was the tour with the Tonys?

1162
00:55:33,886 --> 00:55:36,446
Speaker 2: The tour with the Tonys was amazing. It was definitely

1163
00:55:36,486 --> 00:55:41,896
Speaker 2: a bucket list. We took the phones. I took the phones.

1164
00:55:42,956 --> 00:55:44,036
Speaker 1: You took the phones away from the audience?

1165
00:55:44,056 --> 00:55:46,916
Speaker 2: From the audience. Because I wanted the audience to have

1166
00:55:46,956 --> 00:55:49,516
Speaker 2: a good time. The way that I've seen the OJs,

1167
00:55:49,616 --> 00:55:51,226
Speaker 2: I didn't have a phone when I was a kid.

1168
00:55:52,306 --> 00:55:55,146
Speaker 2: And that's where I learned. I feel like not having

1169
00:55:55,186 --> 00:56:00,046
Speaker 2: a phone And, you know, you're actually sitting with your

1170
00:56:00,326 --> 00:56:03,326
Speaker 2: friend or your mate and you're singing and dancing with

1171
00:56:03,346 --> 00:56:08,556
Speaker 2: each other. You know, you're giving people a moment of

1172
00:56:09,136 --> 00:56:12,956
Speaker 2: freedom that they don't know that they actually lost.

1173
00:56:13,496 --> 00:56:14,176
Speaker 1: Yeah, right.

1174
00:56:14,196 --> 00:56:16,536
Speaker 2: You know, nobody knows. You know, we attach to our phones.

1175
00:56:16,576 --> 00:56:18,416
Speaker 1: No one remembers life before a phone, man.

1176
00:56:18,616 --> 00:56:21,676
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and you're not actually doing anything with

1177
00:56:21,716 --> 00:56:25,836
Speaker 2: the videos anyway. Like, you just want to show your

1178
00:56:25,916 --> 00:56:29,796
Speaker 2: friends that you were at the show But it's better

1179
00:56:29,816 --> 00:56:34,076
Speaker 2: that you watch the show in its entirety like we

1180
00:56:34,116 --> 00:56:38,876
Speaker 2: rehearsed it. It was amazing though. The songs were fun

1181
00:56:38,896 --> 00:56:40,626
Speaker 2: to sing over. It was great to be around my

1182
00:56:40,646 --> 00:56:45,586
Speaker 2: brother and Tim and introduce some new musicians like Sharky

1183
00:56:45,606 --> 00:56:48,886
Speaker 2: who played guitar for us, who helped me out tremendously

1184
00:56:48,926 --> 00:56:56,196
Speaker 2: to put the show together. It was amazing. It was

1185
00:56:56,216 --> 00:57:03,396
Speaker 2: having an out-of-body experience. I feel like I felt my

1186
00:57:03,536 --> 00:57:10,226
Speaker 2: ancestors talking to me, especially in Memphis. Memphis was this...

1187
00:57:11,326 --> 00:57:17,086
Speaker 2: We played in this venue that just felt... It was packed.

1188
00:57:17,186 --> 00:57:20,936
Speaker 2: It was like black people from the front to the back.

1189
00:57:21,256 --> 00:57:24,716
Speaker 2: And we haven't played... I haven't played audience with all

1190
00:57:24,736 --> 00:57:27,696
Speaker 2: black people in a long time. Really? Cause my, my

1191
00:57:27,756 --> 00:57:31,356
Speaker 2: audience is very diverse, you know, over the years as

1192
00:57:31,416 --> 00:57:33,506
Speaker 2: a solo artist, you feel like as a solo artist,

1193
00:57:33,526 --> 00:57:36,646
Speaker 2: it's just got very diverse, but this, this audience was

1194
00:57:37,466 --> 00:57:40,106
Speaker 2: black from the front to the back in the South.

1195
00:57:41,026 --> 00:57:41,526
Speaker 1: It was everywhere.

1196
00:57:41,546 --> 00:57:44,456
Speaker 2: It was a few different people in different places, but

1197
00:57:44,496 --> 00:57:48,706
Speaker 2: it just felt like this whole, um, because nobody had

1198
00:57:48,746 --> 00:57:50,946
Speaker 2: the phone, you could, you could look at me and

1199
00:57:50,986 --> 00:57:53,466
Speaker 2: I could look at you. So it's probably different for

1200
00:57:53,786 --> 00:57:57,026
Speaker 2: artists really doesn't, don't know how that feels anymore to

1201
00:57:57,066 --> 00:58:01,786
Speaker 2: having a phone, to have a, you know, 5,000 people

1202
00:58:01,826 --> 00:58:04,126
Speaker 2: looking right at you and not a phone.

1203
00:58:04,306 --> 00:58:05,806
Speaker 1: And you're the main, you're the main entertainment.

1204
00:58:05,826 --> 00:58:08,406
Speaker 2: You're the main thing. So I think we, we, we

1205
00:58:08,506 --> 00:58:11,106
Speaker 2: share something that we both haven't had in a long time.

1206
00:58:11,586 --> 00:58:16,226
Speaker 2: So it brought out this energy of, um, these spirits

1207
00:58:16,266 --> 00:58:18,146
Speaker 2: and energies that I felt like most of the time

1208
00:58:18,186 --> 00:58:21,206
Speaker 2: I was I felt like I felt like it didn't

1209
00:58:21,226 --> 00:58:24,186
Speaker 2: even happen and it was just so you know every

1210
00:58:24,266 --> 00:58:26,506
Speaker 2: moment we could take our time we could walk off

1211
00:58:26,546 --> 00:58:30,546
Speaker 2: we had an intermission people were very patient you know

1212
00:58:30,626 --> 00:58:32,616
Speaker 2: it felt like it was like a house party like

1213
00:58:32,656 --> 00:58:35,436
Speaker 2: we were all together in this in this house party

1214
00:58:35,456 --> 00:58:36,936
Speaker 2: and it was just everybody had a good time they

1215
00:58:36,976 --> 00:58:39,416
Speaker 2: were talking they were hugging they was kissing and sometimes

1216
00:58:39,456 --> 00:58:41,316
Speaker 2: the audience wasn't even looking at me they was you

1217
00:58:41,336 --> 00:58:43,936
Speaker 2: know talking to their girl and she's talking to her

1218
00:58:43,976 --> 00:58:47,296
Speaker 2: man they wasn't they was just enjoying it, thinking about

1219
00:58:47,436 --> 00:58:49,376
Speaker 2: the times when they heard this music for the first

1220
00:58:49,436 --> 00:58:52,616
Speaker 2: time and everybody was sort of reflecting on, they may

1221
00:58:52,636 --> 00:58:55,686
Speaker 2: have lost people in the family. And it had this

1222
00:58:55,836 --> 00:58:59,866
Speaker 2: real deep feeling that I just never, I never felt.

1223
00:58:59,886 --> 00:59:02,546
Speaker 2: And so it was funny when there was anybody of

1224
00:59:02,746 --> 00:59:04,686
Speaker 2: any other, you know, if there was somebody white or

1225
00:59:05,246 --> 00:59:07,966
Speaker 2: some at the shows, it almost felt like a Malcolm

1226
00:59:08,126 --> 00:59:09,916
Speaker 2: X rally. It felt like it was the CIA.

1227
00:59:10,456 --> 00:59:11,216
Speaker 1: It felt like a movie.

1228
00:59:11,256 --> 00:59:12,916
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is CIA. Get that out of my pocket.

1229
00:59:15,186 --> 00:59:18,146
Speaker 2: But then as we got closer to San Francisco, it

1230
00:59:18,166 --> 00:59:19,006
Speaker 2: got more diverse.

1231
00:59:19,736 --> 00:59:20,316
Speaker 1: You were, okay.

1232
00:59:20,516 --> 00:59:21,176
Speaker 2: People came out.

1233
00:59:21,316 --> 00:59:22,916
Speaker 1: You've had the Paramount in Oakland?

1234
00:59:22,936 --> 00:59:25,596
Speaker 2: We played the Paramount and then we played, I forgot

1235
00:59:25,636 --> 00:59:28,436
Speaker 2: we played in San Francisco at some hall.

1236
00:59:28,596 --> 00:59:30,616
Speaker 1: Warfield. Did y'all play the Warfield?

1237
00:59:30,636 --> 00:59:32,756
Speaker 2: We didn't play the Warfield. We played inside. It was

1238
00:59:32,876 --> 00:59:37,956
Speaker 2: raining hard outside. But I've never played the Paramount. Ever.

1239
00:59:38,076 --> 00:59:40,366
Speaker 2: That was my first time playing at Paramount. And it

1240
00:59:40,406 --> 00:59:42,806
Speaker 2: was really good to bring it home. We brought it home.

1241
00:59:43,206 --> 00:59:44,526
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful theater in Oakland.

1242
00:59:44,806 --> 00:59:45,346
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.

1243
00:59:45,626 --> 00:59:46,166
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1244
00:59:46,646 --> 00:59:51,896
Speaker 2: So the experience was amazing. I just felt like we

1245
00:59:51,936 --> 00:59:55,436
Speaker 2: needed to give people, you know, give it back to

1246
00:59:55,456 --> 00:59:57,236
Speaker 2: them one more time. Something that they gave to us.

1247
00:59:57,276 --> 00:59:59,696
Speaker 2: They gave us the gift to like our music and

1248
00:59:59,736 --> 01:00:01,856
Speaker 2: to like what we were doing. Because we didn't know

1249
01:00:01,876 --> 01:00:03,636
Speaker 2: we were doing this. You know, we were just kids

1250
01:00:03,656 --> 01:00:08,026
Speaker 2: making music with a record deal. And... We were able

1251
01:00:08,046 --> 01:00:13,146
Speaker 2: to put out some test of the time music that

1252
01:00:13,186 --> 01:00:15,286
Speaker 2: people still listen to. I mean, how did it feel

1253
01:00:15,306 --> 01:00:18,146
Speaker 2: for you guys to do it? Because, I mean, I

1254
01:00:18,866 --> 01:00:20,876
Speaker 2: feel like, and I guess there's two ways of thinking

1255
01:00:20,916 --> 01:00:21,226
Speaker 2: about it.

1256
01:00:21,316 --> 01:00:24,316
Speaker 1: When you guys broke up, if that's what y'all want

1257
01:00:24,336 --> 01:00:25,896
Speaker 1: to call it, after House of Music, I feel like

1258
01:00:25,916 --> 01:00:29,116
Speaker 1: you guys kind of went out on top. Like, I

1259
01:00:29,136 --> 01:00:31,576
Speaker 1: love all the records, but House of Music's like far

1260
01:00:31,676 --> 01:00:34,866
Speaker 1: and away from me, my favorite record of y'all's. And

1261
01:00:34,886 --> 01:00:37,526
Speaker 1: it's like, damn, there's probably so much more y'all could

1262
01:00:37,546 --> 01:00:39,506
Speaker 1: have done or, or maybe it was the right time.

1263
01:00:39,586 --> 01:00:41,246
Speaker 1: I don't, so I don't know, but y'all left like

1264
01:00:41,306 --> 01:00:42,346
Speaker 1: on top for sure.

1265
01:00:42,366 --> 01:00:43,166
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did.

1266
01:00:43,466 --> 01:00:45,906
Speaker 1: I mean, so to get together, like, you know, 20

1267
01:00:45,906 --> 01:00:48,566
Speaker 1: years later, like how did that feel for you guys?

1268
01:00:50,166 --> 01:00:52,526
Speaker 2: It felt, cause we rehearsed right in this room. We

1269
01:00:52,546 --> 01:00:56,556
Speaker 2: rehearsed here and it felt good to see everybody in

1270
01:00:56,616 --> 01:01:00,236
Speaker 2: a room and, you know, like playing those songs live, no,

1271
01:01:00,516 --> 01:01:05,436
Speaker 2: no back tracks. Just, it felt really good. it was

1272
01:01:05,496 --> 01:01:09,116
Speaker 2: more for me for like the nieces and nephews family

1273
01:01:09,156 --> 01:01:12,576
Speaker 2: members to you know and from my father who's not

1274
01:01:12,656 --> 01:01:15,556
Speaker 2: living anymore he would have wanted us to do that

1275
01:01:16,236 --> 01:01:20,216
Speaker 2: and I really wanted to he said something to me

1276
01:01:20,256 --> 01:01:26,026
Speaker 2: before about you know how to look at things you

1277
01:01:26,066 --> 01:01:27,706
Speaker 2: know no matter what you think they are how you

1278
01:01:27,726 --> 01:01:30,426
Speaker 2: look at them and you know and you how you

1279
01:01:30,446 --> 01:01:34,746
Speaker 2: want to be perceived and I wanted to be perceived as,

1280
01:01:35,066 --> 01:01:37,466
Speaker 2: I wanted to give people what they wanted. Because when

1281
01:01:37,486 --> 01:01:40,106
Speaker 2: we were younger, you know, we blew it. We broke up.

1282
01:01:40,166 --> 01:01:45,896
Speaker 2: You know, we didn't run it. I left. You know,

1283
01:01:46,356 --> 01:01:49,436
Speaker 2: I left the group. But it was the perfect time

1284
01:01:49,456 --> 01:01:51,396
Speaker 2: for me to leave the group. I mean, I didn't

1285
01:01:51,416 --> 01:01:54,236
Speaker 2: want to be, I remember, I always have these stories

1286
01:01:54,276 --> 01:01:58,516
Speaker 2: about Eddie Kendricks, one of my favorite people who, you know, he,

1287
01:01:58,856 --> 01:02:01,946
Speaker 2: it was hard for him to leave the Temptations. I'm guessing, right?

1288
01:02:02,006 --> 01:02:02,186
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1289
01:02:03,026 --> 01:02:08,126
Speaker 2: Such a big group, such big stable songs. And like,

1290
01:02:08,146 --> 01:02:10,166
Speaker 2: you know, Lionel Richie leaving the Commodores, you know, he

1291
01:02:10,186 --> 01:02:14,826
Speaker 2: had big, huge compositions. And I didn't want to get

1292
01:02:14,886 --> 01:02:19,756
Speaker 2: stuck being just an A group guy. I felt like

1293
01:02:19,776 --> 01:02:22,916
Speaker 2: I had more to offer. And I had ideas of

1294
01:02:22,956 --> 01:02:26,636
Speaker 2: how I wanted to do things. And I wasn't like

1295
01:02:26,736 --> 01:02:29,796
Speaker 2: the band leader guy who could tell people, you know,

1296
01:02:29,816 --> 01:02:31,916
Speaker 2: this is how it's going to go. Just do what

1297
01:02:31,976 --> 01:02:34,276
Speaker 2: I say. So that was better for me to step

1298
01:02:34,436 --> 01:02:38,456
Speaker 2: off and just, and just try and, you know, and

1299
01:02:38,516 --> 01:02:40,206
Speaker 2: see what I was going to do. I wanted to

1300
01:02:40,226 --> 01:02:43,446
Speaker 2: work with other people. I just wanted to play music,

1301
01:02:44,386 --> 01:02:47,686
Speaker 2: you know, and see if I could copy these, these

1302
01:02:47,806 --> 01:02:48,646
Speaker 2: legends that I love.

1303
01:02:48,886 --> 01:02:50,266
Speaker 1: And it didn't feel like you could do both. Like

1304
01:02:50,326 --> 01:02:53,876
Speaker 1: it didn't feel like that was a, nah, nah, no.

1305
01:02:53,896 --> 01:02:55,936
Speaker 2: I just, I just came home one day and was like,

1306
01:02:57,356 --> 01:02:59,816
Speaker 2: Let me just buy some season tickets to the Sacramento Kings.

1307
01:03:01,096 --> 01:03:03,876
Speaker 2: And I did. And I met Brian Grant, who became

1308
01:03:03,936 --> 01:03:06,576
Speaker 2: one of my best friends to this day. And I

1309
01:03:06,596 --> 01:03:08,896
Speaker 2: didn't want to, you know, he was, I had a

1310
01:03:09,036 --> 01:03:12,076
Speaker 2: detail shop out there. And so I should, we should,

1311
01:03:12,476 --> 01:03:14,686
Speaker 2: the Kings cars will come there and different cars will

1312
01:03:14,706 --> 01:03:15,746
Speaker 2: come there. People will come there.

1313
01:03:16,506 --> 01:03:18,246
Speaker 1: Wait, so you got the season tickets. She says like,

1314
01:03:18,406 --> 01:03:20,366
Speaker 1: I can't go. I can't, I can't book nothing.

1315
01:03:20,406 --> 01:03:23,726
Speaker 2: Cause I can't, no, no, no, I just, I got,

1316
01:03:24,466 --> 01:03:26,786
Speaker 2: when I decided I was leaving the group, I just decided,

1317
01:03:27,926 --> 01:03:30,486
Speaker 2: And I just moved to Sacramento, was new in Sacramento,

1318
01:03:31,606 --> 01:03:34,106
Speaker 2: bought this house there, was nothing to do. And I

1319
01:03:34,106 --> 01:03:38,596
Speaker 2: was like, there's not shit to do in Sacramento. But

1320
01:03:38,896 --> 01:03:41,476
Speaker 2: go to a strip bar or go to a game.

1321
01:03:41,756 --> 01:03:42,336
Speaker 2: So I did both.

1322
01:03:44,596 --> 01:03:45,416
Speaker 1: Season tickets to both.

1323
01:03:46,226 --> 01:03:49,896
Speaker 2: No, not season tickets, but not season tickets, but. I mean,

1324
01:03:49,916 --> 01:03:51,436
Speaker 2: that's where I was like, you just hear a lot

1325
01:03:51,456 --> 01:03:54,016
Speaker 2: of Metallica and Sacramento strip bars. Oh, man.

1326
01:03:54,056 --> 01:03:55,886
Speaker 1: That's it. Dude, that's always a.

1327
01:03:56,346 --> 01:03:58,126
Speaker 2: I love Metallica. And I was like, oh, yeah, this

1328
01:03:58,166 --> 01:04:02,766
Speaker 2: is cool. Metallica, like, Nicky's coming up right now, guys.

1329
01:04:02,786 --> 01:04:07,626
Speaker 2: And Metallica and truck drivers. And it was the Sacramento Kings.

1330
01:04:08,276 --> 01:04:11,316
Speaker 2: And then... And so people was asking Brian for tickets

1331
01:04:11,356 --> 01:04:14,036
Speaker 2: all the time. You know, he had a family. I said, man,

1332
01:04:14,096 --> 01:04:16,456
Speaker 2: I'm going to get my own tickets. Right. And that's

1333
01:04:16,476 --> 01:04:17,386
Speaker 2: what I did. I ended up.

1334
01:04:19,586 --> 01:04:24,656
Speaker 2: Watching more basketball, watching more sports. And then I only

1335
01:04:24,676 --> 01:04:26,856
Speaker 2: worked on two artists at that time. It was D'Angelo,

1336
01:04:26,876 --> 01:04:32,816
Speaker 2: it was Lady, and Total, Kissing You. Puffy's group. Other

1337
01:04:32,836 --> 01:04:35,756
Speaker 2: than that, I didn't do much work for a few years.

1338
01:04:36,256 --> 01:04:40,766
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, too, you compare yourself to Eddie Kendricks, too.

1339
01:04:40,786 --> 01:04:43,106
Speaker 1: Because there are some times, listening to Tony, Tony, Tony,

1340
01:04:43,126 --> 01:04:45,866
Speaker 1: when you and your brother... like trade vocals. It's almost

1341
01:04:45,906 --> 01:04:49,266
Speaker 1: like a, a, a rough and Kendrick kind of like,

1342
01:04:49,306 --> 01:04:51,146
Speaker 1: just the way y'all sound sometimes, you know.

1343
01:04:51,026 --> 01:04:54,596
Speaker 2: What I mean? Cause we, I always felt like, you know,

1344
01:04:54,616 --> 01:04:58,756
Speaker 2: sometimes when I'm watching the sports shows, sometimes people scream

1345
01:04:58,776 --> 01:05:02,776
Speaker 2: too much. Like if I'm watching, if I'm watching Stephen,

1346
01:05:02,836 --> 01:05:06,106
Speaker 2: if I'm watching first take, I call first take first Baptist.

1347
01:05:06,126 --> 01:05:08,826
Speaker 2: Cause it sounded like church. It sounded like, like preachers.

1348
01:05:08,846 --> 01:05:09,846
Speaker 2: They all sound like preachers.

1349
01:05:10,026 --> 01:05:10,606
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

1350
01:05:12,066 --> 01:05:12,826
Speaker 2: But I love their show.

1351
01:05:12,906 --> 01:05:13,426
Speaker 1: I love the show.

1352
01:05:13,666 --> 01:05:18,206
Speaker 2: And then I listen to, I'll go to like, what's

1353
01:05:18,246 --> 01:05:21,566
Speaker 2: it called? It's called First Things or something.

1354
01:05:21,706 --> 01:05:22,206
Speaker 1: First Things.

1355
01:05:22,746 --> 01:05:23,526
Speaker 2: First Things First.

1356
01:05:23,566 --> 01:05:24,326
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1357
01:05:24,526 --> 01:05:27,386
Speaker 2: Their voices are too high. It's just like, and it

1358
01:05:27,406 --> 01:05:29,826
Speaker 2: just irritates the hell out of me. And then.

1359
01:05:30,726 --> 01:05:31,306
Speaker 1: Skip Bayless.

1360
01:05:32,266 --> 01:05:34,906
Speaker 2: Can't take skips. At all.

1361
01:05:35,026 --> 01:05:35,226
Speaker 1: But.

1362
01:05:36,266 --> 01:05:40,406
Speaker 2: Who was on the show I like on the Skip Show?

1363
01:05:40,766 --> 01:05:41,996
Speaker 1: Wayne? Lil Wayne's on there now.

1364
01:05:42,006 --> 01:05:42,706
Speaker 2: The right receiver.

1365
01:05:43,396 --> 01:05:45,096
Speaker 1: Oh, you're talking about. USC. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1366
01:05:45,136 --> 01:05:47,116
Speaker 2: I'm just blanking out on his name. That's terrible because

1367
01:05:47,136 --> 01:05:48,396
Speaker 2: he's my favorite guy.

1368
01:05:48,416 --> 01:05:51,836
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just joined the last year. It's a great commentator.

1369
01:05:51,856 --> 01:05:56,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he makes Skip Show good, but I'm really

1370
01:05:56,216 --> 01:05:56,786
Speaker 2: calling her a guy.

1371
01:05:57,696 --> 01:05:58,626
Speaker 1: You're a Colin Hurd guy?

1372
01:05:58,816 --> 01:05:59,206
Speaker 2: I know.

1373
01:05:59,316 --> 01:06:01,466
Speaker 1: I can't deal with it. I feel about Colin the

1374
01:06:01,486 --> 01:06:04,126
Speaker 1: way I feel about Skip. I like Skip Batch. He

1375
01:06:04,146 --> 01:06:07,046
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of wrestling or something.

1376
01:06:07,206 --> 01:06:09,406
Speaker 2: No, Colin is right. Because you know why? Because Colin

1377
01:06:09,426 --> 01:06:12,776
Speaker 2: got it right. Because Colin is no debating. He'll ask

1378
01:06:12,856 --> 01:06:13,336
Speaker 2: a question.

1379
01:06:13,716 --> 01:06:14,596
Speaker 1: He debates himself.

1380
01:06:15,076 --> 01:06:17,656
Speaker 2: No, but yeah, but when he brings on great guests.

1381
01:06:17,736 --> 01:06:18,396
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.

1382
01:06:18,756 --> 01:06:21,236
Speaker 2: And he doesn't, if I ask you a question, and

1383
01:06:21,276 --> 01:06:22,886
Speaker 2: then when you answer the question, he goes to the

1384
01:06:22,926 --> 01:06:26,086
Speaker 2: next subject. He don't debate you. I like that.

1385
01:06:26,106 --> 01:06:27,776
Speaker 1: He just moves along.

1386
01:06:27,936 --> 01:06:28,936
Speaker 2: He doesn't debate you, right?

1387
01:06:28,996 --> 01:06:30,136
Speaker 1: That's so funny.

1388
01:06:30,156 --> 01:06:31,096
Speaker 2: Back to me and Dwayne.

1389
01:06:31,236 --> 01:06:31,436
Speaker 1: Yes.

1390
01:06:31,976 --> 01:06:35,416
Speaker 2: I think my voice is irritating sometimes, right? So it

1391
01:06:35,456 --> 01:06:38,036
Speaker 2: was great to have me and Dwayne going back and forth.

1392
01:06:38,536 --> 01:06:40,296
Speaker 2: And that's the way I see those talk shows, those

1393
01:06:40,336 --> 01:06:43,236
Speaker 2: game shows. You need different people with different voices because

1394
01:06:43,276 --> 01:06:45,836
Speaker 2: some voice might irritate you. My voice is high. And

1395
01:06:45,856 --> 01:06:49,276
Speaker 2: sometimes people, it could be irritating.

1396
01:06:49,296 --> 01:06:51,896
Speaker 1: It's too high. I've never heard anyone say that.

1397
01:06:51,936 --> 01:06:54,456
Speaker 2: But when Dwayne comes in, it just levels me off

1398
01:06:54,496 --> 01:06:57,336
Speaker 2: and gives me the confidence. You know, it's like, I

1399
01:06:57,336 --> 01:07:00,526
Speaker 2: don't want to say this, but like, you know, Michael

1400
01:07:00,566 --> 01:07:02,506
Speaker 2: and Jermaine, it worked, right?

1401
01:07:02,546 --> 01:07:03,486
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

1402
01:07:03,826 --> 01:07:07,546
Speaker 2: So, those talk shows, yeah, I think Colin is the man, bro.

1403
01:07:07,606 --> 01:07:09,566
Speaker 1: Come on, man. I can't, I can't, man.

1404
01:07:09,586 --> 01:07:11,426
Speaker 2: You like Skip over Colin?

1405
01:07:11,446 --> 01:07:14,186
Speaker 1: Skip's funny to me. Skip just cracks, it's like, it's

1406
01:07:14,206 --> 01:07:15,976
Speaker 1: so ridiculous. It's insane.

1407
01:07:16,006 --> 01:07:17,256
Speaker 2: He's like Trump almost.

1408
01:07:17,276 --> 01:07:18,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, but, okay. Sorry.

1409
01:07:19,036 --> 01:07:19,256
Speaker 2: Okay.

1410
01:07:22,316 --> 01:07:25,036
Speaker 1: Okay, listen. Listen. You're not wrong.

1411
01:07:25,056 --> 01:07:26,036
Speaker 2: He's just saying shit. You're not wrong.

1412
01:07:26,196 --> 01:07:29,576
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Like, okay, I might regret putting

1413
01:07:29,616 --> 01:07:32,596
Speaker 1: this on wax, but Trump is actually kind of funny.

1414
01:07:32,776 --> 01:07:35,726
Speaker 1: He is funny. It's just that he's like... George Bush

1415
01:07:35,776 --> 01:07:39,806
Speaker 1: is funnier. Come on. They're both pretty funny.

1416
01:07:40,266 --> 01:07:42,406
Speaker 2: No, he's just... Trump is just ridiculous.

1417
01:07:42,526 --> 01:07:45,406
Speaker 1: Well, you know what's ridiculous? I mean, this really ain't funny.

1418
01:07:45,446 --> 01:07:47,706
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. It's in a dark way. You

1419
01:07:47,726 --> 01:07:51,006
Speaker 1: think about George Bush started the Iraq war, all those veterans,

1420
01:07:51,046 --> 01:07:52,186
Speaker 1: people dead, maimed.

1421
01:07:52,206 --> 01:07:52,706
Speaker 2: It was terrible.

1422
01:07:52,826 --> 01:07:55,146
Speaker 1: And now he's just sitting there at home painting them.

1423
01:07:55,226 --> 01:07:55,666
Speaker 2: And he's good.

1424
01:07:55,686 --> 01:07:58,916
Speaker 1: Like, bro, like, what? You sent them to fucking lose

1425
01:07:58,956 --> 01:07:59,296
Speaker 1: an arm.

1426
01:07:59,316 --> 01:08:01,796
Speaker 2: Because now he's painting, like, look at this motherfucker you

1427
01:08:01,816 --> 01:08:02,416
Speaker 2: guys got now.

1428
01:08:03,456 --> 01:08:04,456
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1429
01:08:04,856 --> 01:08:07,216
Speaker 2: Like, whatever choice do you have? Like, I mean, most

1430
01:08:07,236 --> 01:08:10,006
Speaker 2: people I know, like, are voting. And who wants to

1431
01:08:10,026 --> 01:08:12,506
Speaker 2: vote Trump, who you wouldn't think. Everybody want to save

1432
01:08:12,546 --> 01:08:15,126
Speaker 2: money on taxes. But I want to save money on taxes, too.

1433
01:08:15,146 --> 01:08:16,416
Speaker 2: But I'm like, if that's going to be it, fuck it.

1434
01:08:16,436 --> 01:08:18,236
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it that much. Lose the money.

1435
01:08:19,096 --> 01:08:19,236
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1436
01:08:19,276 --> 01:08:21,036
Speaker 1: I would rather lose money than do the yeah, yeah, yeah.

1437
01:08:21,136 --> 01:08:22,516
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Skip is definitely Trump.

1438
01:08:22,596 --> 01:08:24,056
Speaker 1: He is, but he's not trying to run the country.

1439
01:08:24,076 --> 01:08:25,876
Speaker 1: That's what I appreciate about it. You know what I mean?

1440
01:08:25,896 --> 01:08:26,616
Speaker 1: He's just trying to push in.

1441
01:08:26,616 --> 01:08:28,966
Speaker 2: I feel like Skip comes in with a ready package. Like,

1442
01:08:28,976 --> 01:08:32,066
Speaker 2: you say something, he's going to combat it. I feel

1443
01:08:32,086 --> 01:08:32,906
Speaker 2: like they have the... You could.

1444
01:08:32,926 --> 01:08:33,426
Speaker 1: I guess.

1445
01:08:34,426 --> 01:08:36,046
Speaker 2: I can see their daily meetings.

1446
01:08:36,586 --> 01:08:38,246
Speaker 1: I'm going to take this position. You're going to take

1447
01:08:38,286 --> 01:08:39,426
Speaker 1: that one. That's why I don't like it.

1448
01:08:39,886 --> 01:08:42,846
Speaker 2: With Colin, you know there's a meeting, but it's only

1449
01:08:43,106 --> 01:08:44,086
Speaker 2: one person.

1450
01:08:44,426 --> 01:08:47,226
Speaker 1: Colin just reminds me of the guy in the classroom

1451
01:08:47,446 --> 01:08:49,706
Speaker 1: that's doing too much. You know what I mean? He's

1452
01:08:49,766 --> 01:08:51,146
Speaker 1: ruining everything for you.

1453
01:08:51,786 --> 01:08:52,926
Speaker 2: But you know what I like about Colin? I don't

1454
01:08:52,956 --> 01:08:54,956
Speaker 2: know how he got on the sports thing, but the

1455
01:08:55,016 --> 01:08:57,256
Speaker 2: funny thing about Colin, I want to find out why

1456
01:08:57,276 --> 01:08:58,816
Speaker 2: does he hate Aaron Rodgers so much?

1457
01:09:00,856 --> 01:09:01,596
Speaker 1: That's a great question.

1458
01:09:01,616 --> 01:09:03,216
Speaker 2: It's funny, though. He'll give him a break, but he'll

1459
01:09:03,236 --> 01:09:05,406
Speaker 2: be like, you know... He just kills him. I think

1460
01:09:05,446 --> 01:09:08,386
Speaker 2: I watch him just to watch him kill people. But

1461
01:09:08,406 --> 01:09:15,976
Speaker 2: he has really good tips for being professional. If you

1462
01:09:15,996 --> 01:09:16,556
Speaker 2: listen to him.

1463
01:09:16,796 --> 01:09:17,516
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, definitely.

1464
01:09:17,956 --> 01:09:19,636
Speaker 2: Like he definitely.

1465
01:09:19,876 --> 01:09:22,776
Speaker 1: Okay. You got it. I'm going to move to Manhattan beach.

1466
01:09:22,856 --> 01:09:24,416
Speaker 1: Try to try to link up with him. He may

1467
01:09:24,436 --> 01:09:26,936
Speaker 1: see if he can mentor me on how to. Yeah.

1468
01:09:27,016 --> 01:09:31,936
Speaker 2: I mean, because look at this podcast company is Draymond green.

1469
01:09:32,216 --> 01:09:34,216
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wait, no, that's it. Is that his?

1470
01:09:34,456 --> 01:09:34,936
Speaker 2: That's his.

1471
01:09:35,136 --> 01:09:35,816
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that.

1472
01:09:35,856 --> 01:09:39,166
Speaker 2: Yeah. Dude comes on and be like, you know, he

1473
01:09:39,186 --> 01:09:40,906
Speaker 2: gave dream on the platform. I didn't know that.

1474
01:09:40,946 --> 01:09:41,126
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1475
01:09:42,096 --> 01:09:42,956
Speaker 2: He's a beast, man.

1476
01:09:43,036 --> 01:09:43,666
Speaker 1: He's a beast.

1477
01:09:43,736 --> 01:09:44,086
Speaker 2: I know.

1478
01:09:44,206 --> 01:09:47,806
Speaker 1: But Skip, you got Stephen A, Shannon, Wayne, our boy

1479
01:09:47,826 --> 01:09:51,066
Speaker 1: who we can't think of right now. He's put people

1480
01:09:51,126 --> 01:09:55,246
Speaker 1: on too. I'm just saying. I try.

1481
01:09:55,586 --> 01:09:58,086
Speaker 2: Like I, I try, I skip my stations and I

1482
01:09:58,106 --> 01:10:01,946
Speaker 2: go on Skip. I'm like, nah, Skip's like, Skip's just

1483
01:10:01,966 --> 01:10:03,126
Speaker 2: like making people mad.

1484
01:10:03,386 --> 01:10:07,376
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love that about it.

1485
01:10:07,396 --> 01:10:08,756
Speaker 2: It's a different structure, different folks.

1486
01:10:08,796 --> 01:10:09,196
Speaker 1: That's right.

1487
01:10:09,216 --> 01:10:09,696
Speaker 2: That's right.

1488
01:10:09,916 --> 01:10:13,056
Speaker 1: That's it. Um, I feel like I'm bouncing everywhere, but

1489
01:10:13,076 --> 01:10:14,776
Speaker 1: it's just like so much to ask you.

1490
01:10:14,816 --> 01:10:15,656
Speaker 2: One more thing about Skip.

1491
01:10:15,856 --> 01:10:17,696
Speaker 1: Please. One more thing.

1492
01:10:18,256 --> 01:10:22,596
Speaker 2: His name is perfect. You should just skip his show. Exactly.

1493
01:10:25,256 --> 01:10:28,776
Speaker 1: That's the tagline. You can just go on and skip me.

1494
01:10:28,796 --> 01:10:30,126
Speaker 2: Skip this, Skip that.

1495
01:10:30,136 --> 01:10:34,686
Speaker 1: Just skip this Bayless, man. Y'all went down to record

1496
01:10:34,726 --> 01:10:37,326
Speaker 1: House of Music. Y'all went down to, was it Trinidad? Trinidad. Yeah.

1497
01:10:37,346 --> 01:10:39,746
Speaker 2: It's a House of Music? Because it's Sons of Soul.

1498
01:10:40,296 --> 01:10:41,316
Speaker 1: Was it Sons of Soul y'all did that?

1499
01:10:41,336 --> 01:10:42,196
Speaker 2: I think it was Sons of Soul.

1500
01:10:42,356 --> 01:10:48,086
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah. Pre-internet, how did you know about this studio

1501
01:10:48,136 --> 01:10:49,766
Speaker 1: down in Trenton? How did y'all know to get.

1502
01:10:49,936 --> 01:10:52,626
Speaker 2: We found out from some of our Trini brothers, Trent

1503
01:10:52,666 --> 01:10:54,916
Speaker 2: Gumbs and Desmond Gumbs, some guys that was in a...

1504
01:10:55,806 --> 01:10:57,906
Speaker 2: Trent Gumbs, I was in a high school band with him.

1505
01:10:58,786 --> 01:11:02,426
Speaker 2: And he's Trini. And he told us about this studio.

1506
01:11:02,646 --> 01:11:05,586
Speaker 2: They needed people to come down there and record it.

1507
01:11:06,766 --> 01:11:08,566
Speaker 2: They gave us a good price to come record the music.

1508
01:11:08,626 --> 01:11:11,576
Speaker 2: And we stayed there for three months. stayed there for

1509
01:11:11,616 --> 01:11:14,376
Speaker 2: three months. I think that's the first time I had roti.

1510
01:11:15,796 --> 01:11:17,556
Speaker 2: This is the sad part. It's the first time I

1511
01:11:17,596 --> 01:11:18,596
Speaker 2: ever tasted a mango.

1512
01:11:19,336 --> 01:11:19,736
Speaker 1: Really?

1513
01:11:20,156 --> 01:11:22,456
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was in Trinidad.

1514
01:11:22,916 --> 01:11:23,936
Speaker 1: That's probably was a good mango too.

1515
01:11:23,956 --> 01:11:25,276
Speaker 2: The best mango I ever had in my life.

1516
01:11:25,356 --> 01:11:25,676
Speaker 1: Wow.

1517
01:11:26,216 --> 01:11:31,616
Speaker 2: And it was beautiful. It's a beautiful place. Beautiful music,

1518
01:11:31,656 --> 01:11:35,476
Speaker 2: beautiful food. And, um, we had almost five to six

1519
01:11:35,586 --> 01:11:36,676
Speaker 2: rooms to record in.

1520
01:11:37,236 --> 01:11:37,466
Speaker 1: Wow.

1521
01:11:37,966 --> 01:11:42,666
Speaker 2: Huge orchestra room. Um, it was it was a great time.

1522
01:11:42,946 --> 01:11:45,066
Speaker 1: Was it like that was that was how many people

1523
01:11:45,226 --> 01:11:47,086
Speaker 1: so was you guys who else did you guys go

1524
01:11:47,106 --> 01:11:47,566
Speaker 1: down with.

1525
01:11:47,486 --> 01:11:50,106
Speaker 2: We brought we we might have brought like 10 people

1526
01:11:50,126 --> 01:11:53,376
Speaker 2: when we left we left uh it was only maybe

1527
01:11:53,836 --> 01:11:56,776
Speaker 2: three people we left everybody wanted to leave except us

1528
01:11:57,156 --> 01:11:58,256
Speaker 2: wow yeah.

1529
01:11:58,836 --> 01:12:00,776
Speaker 1: It seems like an incredible do you guys have any

1530
01:12:00,816 --> 01:12:02,516
Speaker 1: like footage of that time or i.

1531
01:12:02,516 --> 01:12:05,236
Speaker 2: Don't think we filmed anything we were the worst we

1532
01:12:05,416 --> 01:12:07,656
Speaker 2: we weren't the beatles we didn't dock how you know

1533
01:12:08,516 --> 01:12:10,756
Speaker 2: you see the Beatles have a documentary that came out

1534
01:12:10,776 --> 01:12:12,456
Speaker 2: and they filmed it like 40 years ago. Yeah.

1535
01:12:12,536 --> 01:12:15,746
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's like literally all the footage. It's like, yeah,

1536
01:12:15,786 --> 01:12:16,786
Speaker 1: they're never off camera.

1537
01:12:16,946 --> 01:12:17,206
Speaker 2: No.

1538
01:12:17,986 --> 01:12:20,966
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, I just, yeah, it's pretty, I

1539
01:12:20,986 --> 01:12:22,506
Speaker 1: guess it makes sense that it was Sons of Soul

1540
01:12:22,546 --> 01:12:26,426
Speaker 1: cause it feels like that's like really, there's an energy

1541
01:12:26,466 --> 01:12:27,906
Speaker 1: on that album, you know?

1542
01:12:28,086 --> 01:12:30,846
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sons of Soul was like, yeah, it was definitely

1543
01:12:30,886 --> 01:12:33,296
Speaker 2: a Trini. Right.

1544
01:12:33,336 --> 01:12:33,966
Speaker 1: Slow wine.

1545
01:12:34,116 --> 01:12:35,016
Speaker 2: Slow wine.

1546
01:12:35,556 --> 01:12:35,816
Speaker 1: Yep.

1547
01:12:35,856 --> 01:12:36,516
Speaker 2: Slow wine.

1548
01:12:36,696 --> 01:12:38,316
Speaker 1: Um, It's beautiful.

1549
01:12:38,356 --> 01:12:40,236
Speaker 2: I mean, like the rainforest, it would be like just

1550
01:12:40,456 --> 01:12:43,936
Speaker 2: in the daytime, just you eating dinner and just hard

1551
01:12:43,996 --> 01:12:45,716
Speaker 2: rain is just coming down, you know, because the windows

1552
01:12:45,736 --> 01:12:50,136
Speaker 2: are open. They love the good life out there.

1553
01:12:50,156 --> 01:12:52,076
Speaker 1: Other thing I wanted to ask you, just going back

1554
01:12:52,116 --> 01:12:58,926
Speaker 1: to Beyonce, your brother, Dwayne, brought Destiny's Child to Oakland

1555
01:12:58,946 --> 01:13:00,726
Speaker 1: like before they blew up, right?

1556
01:13:00,846 --> 01:13:01,126
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1557
01:13:01,846 --> 01:13:04,296
Speaker 1: So it's like, did you, did you like, yeah. Can

1558
01:13:04,316 --> 01:13:05,896
Speaker 1: you tell that story if you know it? And then

1559
01:13:06,236 --> 01:13:07,796
Speaker 1: did you know Beyonce at that time?

1560
01:13:07,856 --> 01:13:10,196
Speaker 2: No, I didn't know. I didn't know Beyonce at that time.

1561
01:13:10,256 --> 01:13:11,596
Speaker 2: I actually was in L.A. at the time.

1562
01:13:11,856 --> 01:13:12,096
Speaker 1: OK.

1563
01:13:12,176 --> 01:13:14,296
Speaker 2: Or I was in Sacramento and then I moved to L.A.

1564
01:13:14,876 --> 01:13:16,706
Speaker 2: So I missed that whole thing. I wasn't around it

1565
01:13:16,716 --> 01:13:17,046
Speaker 2: at all.

1566
01:13:17,386 --> 01:13:18,166
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah.

1567
01:13:18,806 --> 01:13:20,606
Speaker 2: I know I know he had him through another guy

1568
01:13:20,646 --> 01:13:24,786
Speaker 2: named Alonzo Jackson. Alonzo Jackson is a guy we were in.

1569
01:13:24,786 --> 01:13:27,786
Speaker 2: I was in a band with two. And Dwayne was

1570
01:13:27,886 --> 01:13:31,446
Speaker 2: in a band with Alonzo Jackson's uncle. So we were

1571
01:13:31,466 --> 01:13:36,026
Speaker 2: sort of like the kids band to that band. But

1572
01:13:36,066 --> 01:13:40,966
Speaker 2: there's also another lady who Alonzo met. So he met

1573
01:13:42,506 --> 01:13:46,386
Speaker 2: Destiny's Child through this lady. She ended up passing away.

1574
01:13:46,986 --> 01:13:51,386
Speaker 2: And then Alonzo brought the girls to Dwayne.

1575
01:13:52,256 --> 01:13:53,856
Speaker 1: Did you hear from him about it? Like, yo, I

1576
01:13:53,896 --> 01:13:54,276
Speaker 1: got these.

1577
01:13:54,296 --> 01:13:55,976
Speaker 2: I mean, he was working with a lot of people

1578
01:13:56,016 --> 01:14:01,066
Speaker 2: at the time. He was working with Alicia Keys after that. Um,

1579
01:14:01,466 --> 01:14:03,166
Speaker 2: he had his own label. He, he was working a

1580
01:14:03,166 --> 01:14:04,746
Speaker 2: lot of people, but like I said, I wasn't around

1581
01:14:04,786 --> 01:14:06,886
Speaker 2: for any of it. I didn't know any of the artists.

1582
01:14:06,986 --> 01:14:08,826
Speaker 1: Do you guys get along or is that not?

1583
01:14:09,186 --> 01:14:11,826
Speaker 2: No, we get along. No, we get along. We just different.

1584
01:14:12,106 --> 01:14:12,306
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1585
01:14:12,526 --> 01:14:16,006
Speaker 2: We just different. And, you know, um, I mean, growing up,

1586
01:14:16,026 --> 01:14:18,466
Speaker 2: he was my, you know, my child, my idol. I

1587
01:14:18,466 --> 01:14:19,886
Speaker 2: wanted to be around him all the time. Was it

1588
01:14:20,446 --> 01:14:22,826
Speaker 2: a sort of an age gap there? And then once

1589
01:14:22,846 --> 01:14:24,946
Speaker 2: you get in, once you get a record deal, everybody

1590
01:14:25,386 --> 01:14:27,306
Speaker 2: started having their own set of friends, you know? So,

1591
01:14:28,106 --> 01:14:34,386
Speaker 2: and I was still, in Amber with the, the trick

1592
01:14:34,426 --> 01:14:36,786
Speaker 2: that I was, I was in the business, I was

1593
01:14:36,886 --> 01:14:39,386
Speaker 2: making records, you know, it was like something that was

1594
01:14:39,446 --> 01:14:44,446
Speaker 2: a really, a surprise to me, you know, cause I'm

1595
01:14:44,506 --> 01:14:46,586
Speaker 2: pretty much wanting to be like an assignment, a play

1596
01:14:46,606 --> 01:14:50,006
Speaker 2: for people. So I was too busy figuring this out

1597
01:14:50,046 --> 01:14:53,956
Speaker 2: and how not to be a failure and what we

1598
01:14:54,016 --> 01:14:58,326
Speaker 2: said we were doing. So I, I pretty much, You know,

1599
01:14:58,346 --> 01:15:01,066
Speaker 2: I was trying to, you know, talk to as many

1600
01:15:01,106 --> 01:15:05,766
Speaker 2: people as I could to learn a little bit more.

1601
01:15:07,626 --> 01:15:10,646
Speaker 1: There was like a five-year, maybe five, maybe six-year gap

1602
01:15:10,686 --> 01:15:13,466
Speaker 1: between House of Music and Instant Vintage.

1603
01:15:14,186 --> 01:15:17,186
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't know because there's no gaps for me

1604
01:15:17,206 --> 01:15:18,286
Speaker 2: because I'm always playing music.

1605
01:15:18,686 --> 01:15:18,846
Speaker 1: Right.

1606
01:15:18,886 --> 01:15:21,146
Speaker 2: I'm always making records, but they're just not coming out.

1607
01:15:21,586 --> 01:15:23,446
Speaker 1: Okay. But so there wasn't like when you left like

1608
01:15:23,486 --> 01:15:26,546
Speaker 1: this earth. feel of urgency of like I gotta get

1609
01:15:26,566 --> 01:15:30,166
Speaker 1: something out establish myself as no you did the song

1610
01:15:30,206 --> 01:15:30,866
Speaker 1: for like you know.

1611
01:15:30,886 --> 01:15:33,806
Speaker 2: Yeah for different people it should have been some urgency but.

1612
01:15:33,706 --> 01:15:36,146
Speaker 1: I didn't it's all worked out I was just curious.

1613
01:15:35,906 --> 01:15:37,986
Speaker 2: No no it should have been some urgency but I

1614
01:15:38,006 --> 01:15:40,506
Speaker 2: didn't I wasn't I wasn't there like that I was

1615
01:15:40,546 --> 01:15:43,706
Speaker 2: like you know like I said it was football basketball

1616
01:15:43,786 --> 01:15:49,166
Speaker 2: music video games the new guitars watching this person do

1617
01:15:49,186 --> 01:15:52,486
Speaker 2: that nieces and nephews and I was nephew was playing

1618
01:15:52,596 --> 01:15:55,106
Speaker 2: you know wanted to play basketball so I was you know,

1619
01:15:55,546 --> 01:15:59,546
Speaker 2: fly him to Dominguez from Sacramento to play in a

1620
01:15:59,606 --> 01:16:03,206
Speaker 2: league with the Pump brothers. And I was sort of

1621
01:16:03,266 --> 01:16:05,616
Speaker 2: like helping my nieces and nephews get in good schools.

1622
01:16:05,716 --> 01:16:07,296
Speaker 2: And that was part of it too.

1623
01:16:07,356 --> 01:16:09,936
Speaker 1: You could have become like a sports agent or something.

1624
01:16:09,956 --> 01:16:13,356
Speaker 1: You could have like, you know, there's another, there's another

1625
01:16:13,396 --> 01:16:14,416
Speaker 1: path you could take.

1626
01:16:14,496 --> 01:16:16,796
Speaker 2: I should tell my buddy, like I told Brian one time,

1627
01:16:17,846 --> 01:16:22,086
Speaker 2: he wasn't doing that good. Well, his points was low

1628
01:16:22,106 --> 01:16:23,506
Speaker 2: and I just went to him one day. I was like, man,

1629
01:16:23,526 --> 01:16:28,766
Speaker 2: I said, tell me something. I said, if they come

1630
01:16:28,786 --> 01:16:31,526
Speaker 2: to you and say, no, they're going to fire you.

1631
01:16:31,546 --> 01:16:35,926
Speaker 2: I said, they're going to fire, the GM is going

1632
01:16:35,956 --> 01:16:38,336
Speaker 2: to be there for a long time. You probably get

1633
01:16:38,356 --> 01:16:41,016
Speaker 2: fired first. Like, it's you, then it's the coach, then

1634
01:16:41,096 --> 01:16:43,816
Speaker 2: it's the GM. That's how it go, right? He like, yeah.

1635
01:16:44,336 --> 01:16:46,836
Speaker 2: He said, okay, I hear you. He went and he

1636
01:16:46,876 --> 01:16:50,236
Speaker 2: got like, he got about what? He hit about 20,

1637
01:16:50,236 --> 01:16:55,746
Speaker 2: he hit about 17 rebounds and That night when he

1638
01:16:55,786 --> 01:16:57,446
Speaker 2: called me, he's like, you see the game? I'm like, yeah.

1639
01:16:57,586 --> 01:16:59,146
Speaker 2: He said, yeah. He said, no, I want to hear

1640
01:16:59,166 --> 01:16:59,586
Speaker 2: some records.

1641
01:17:01,516 --> 01:17:04,216
Speaker 1: You're a clutch producer, man. Yeah. You produce anything. Yeah.

1642
01:17:04,616 --> 01:17:07,716
Speaker 1: Charlie Ray. The song Charlie Ray. Yeah. Where did that

1643
01:17:07,756 --> 01:17:08,696
Speaker 1: guitar part come from?

1644
01:17:10,096 --> 01:17:17,106
Speaker 2: Well, it came from me trying to be in my funkadelic,

1645
01:17:18,326 --> 01:17:24,136
Speaker 2: you know, um, And it's like Charlie Ray's... It's like

1646
01:17:24,496 --> 01:17:28,116
Speaker 2: a funkadelic dream. It's such a... It almost sounds like

1647
01:17:28,376 --> 01:17:33,416
Speaker 2: Grateful Dead-ish. Like it's so... Really? Like it's just so.

1648
01:17:51,016 --> 01:17:51,656
Speaker 1: I don't know that anyone.

1649
01:17:52,426 --> 01:17:54,326
Speaker 2: I do have a lot of Grateful Dead type of

1650
01:17:54,366 --> 01:17:57,486
Speaker 2: music that I haven't put out. What? Just like instrumental stuff.

1651
01:17:59,686 --> 01:18:04,986
Speaker 2: For real? Yeah. Yeah, I did. So my album, before

1652
01:18:05,026 --> 01:18:08,086
Speaker 2: I did Jimmy Lee, I had this whole other record

1653
01:18:09,286 --> 01:18:12,636
Speaker 2: that felt like Charlie Ray. And then I started thinking

1654
01:18:12,676 --> 01:18:17,616
Speaker 2: about my brother and some friends about drug addiction. And

1655
01:18:17,636 --> 01:18:20,176
Speaker 2: then I just jumped off and got on this whole other...

1656
01:18:20,786 --> 01:18:24,886
Speaker 2: wave in but i did have these records that then

1657
01:18:24,926 --> 01:18:28,786
Speaker 2: i'm gonna put together it's more instrumental stuff vocals happen

1658
01:18:28,826 --> 01:18:31,326
Speaker 2: but maybe like after two minutes in the record what

1659
01:18:32,586 --> 01:18:35,556
Speaker 2: yeah that's what that's the stuff i love that you

1660
01:18:35,596 --> 01:18:37,576
Speaker 2: know i could do it now because i'm not i'm

1661
01:18:37,616 --> 01:18:41,356
Speaker 2: not really in the record i'm not i'm not i

1662
01:18:41,396 --> 01:18:43,196
Speaker 2: don't think i've ever been in a record business i

1663
01:18:43,216 --> 01:18:47,066
Speaker 2: think i've been a friend of the brand That's my thing.

1664
01:18:47,246 --> 01:18:48,006
Speaker 2: A friend of the brand.

1665
01:18:48,126 --> 01:18:49,546
Speaker 1: A friend of, really? Yeah.

1666
01:18:49,566 --> 01:18:51,516
Speaker 2: The friend of the brand. I got that from like

1667
01:18:51,536 --> 01:18:55,556
Speaker 2: New Balance. I did this thing with somebody and instead

1668
01:18:55,576 --> 01:18:58,336
Speaker 2: of having ambassadors, they might have somebody in a commercial

1669
01:18:58,346 --> 01:18:59,996
Speaker 2: and it's like a friend of the brand is not

1670
01:19:00,016 --> 01:19:04,156
Speaker 2: an ambassador. When I heard that term, I was like, oh,

1671
01:19:04,676 --> 01:19:07,976
Speaker 2: that suits me just fine because that's what I felt

1672
01:19:07,996 --> 01:19:10,956
Speaker 2: like I've been. I'm a friend of the brand, which

1673
01:19:11,016 --> 01:19:14,106
Speaker 2: means I really, really love it. I can call myself

1674
01:19:14,166 --> 01:19:14,946
Speaker 2: a friend of the brand.

1675
01:19:15,626 --> 01:19:19,276
Speaker 1: Is that because you don't necessarily want to be fully

1676
01:19:19,336 --> 01:19:22,226
Speaker 1: in it like because you i'm sure you could.

1677
01:19:22,086 --> 01:19:24,686
Speaker 2: Be no i think i want to be fully in

1678
01:19:24,746 --> 01:19:26,826
Speaker 2: it but i just want to you know dip off

1679
01:19:26,946 --> 01:19:30,866
Speaker 2: and do regular shit you know and not i don't

1680
01:19:30,906 --> 01:19:34,526
Speaker 2: need to have 10 celebrity friends and hang out with

1681
01:19:34,566 --> 01:19:37,016
Speaker 2: them you know i don't need to be talking about

1682
01:19:37,026 --> 01:19:40,176
Speaker 2: celebrity friends all day i need to just you know

1683
01:19:40,236 --> 01:19:43,736
Speaker 2: i'm walking um you know i'm on a bike i'm

1684
01:19:43,896 --> 01:19:47,326
Speaker 2: just doing Things that, you know, my friends are... I'm

1685
01:19:47,346 --> 01:19:49,106
Speaker 2: still friends with my friends from third grade.

1686
01:19:49,926 --> 01:19:50,246
Speaker 1: Damn.

1687
01:19:50,606 --> 01:19:52,646
Speaker 2: You know? I still talk to them on the phone.

1688
01:19:53,026 --> 01:19:53,246
Speaker 1: Wow.

1689
01:19:54,426 --> 01:19:56,396
Speaker 2: You know? I took some of my friends' lyrics and

1690
01:19:56,416 --> 01:19:57,056
Speaker 2: put it in a song.

1691
01:19:57,356 --> 01:19:57,636
Speaker 1: Really?

1692
01:19:57,956 --> 01:19:59,576
Speaker 2: A song that he used to always sing. And then

1693
01:19:59,976 --> 01:20:03,076
Speaker 2: I haven't seen him in 25 years. When he saw me,

1694
01:20:03,076 --> 01:20:04,796
Speaker 2: he's like, you sang my lyric in a song.

1695
01:20:05,456 --> 01:20:06,336
Speaker 1: What lyric? What song?

1696
01:20:06,976 --> 01:20:11,836
Speaker 2: It's not called For the Love of You. It's a...

1697
01:20:12,266 --> 01:20:15,996
Speaker 2: I will see... I will... Stand by you like a tree.

1698
01:20:16,496 --> 01:20:19,396
Speaker 2: Dare anyone to try to move me. But he had

1699
01:20:19,436 --> 01:20:23,596
Speaker 2: got it from Marvin. Wow. But I didn't know. But

1700
01:20:23,636 --> 01:20:24,896
Speaker 2: we would be on the street hanging out. And he

1701
01:20:24,916 --> 01:20:27,356
Speaker 2: would be like, I'll stand by you like a tree.

1702
01:20:27,376 --> 01:20:30,896
Speaker 2: He would always say that. So our first record, his

1703
01:20:30,936 --> 01:20:33,416
Speaker 2: name is Rodney. We called him We Got Rodney Smith.

1704
01:20:34,376 --> 01:20:37,476
Speaker 2: And when he saw him, he was like, tell him, Ray.

1705
01:20:37,796 --> 01:20:39,976
Speaker 2: It was all our other friends. He said, tell him.

1706
01:20:40,936 --> 01:20:45,526
Speaker 2: He already knew. He said, tell him. I said, I

1707
01:20:45,566 --> 01:20:47,786
Speaker 2: took those lyrics, stand by me like a tree. He

1708
01:20:47,806 --> 01:20:48,226
Speaker 2: already knew.

1709
01:20:48,346 --> 01:20:49,306
Speaker 1: Cold busted, man.

1710
01:20:49,386 --> 01:20:51,626
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell him that.

1711
01:20:52,166 --> 01:20:55,006
Speaker 1: Oh, man. I'm going to circle back because this is

1712
01:20:55,166 --> 01:20:57,056
Speaker 1: one thing we dropped, which was we started talking about

1713
01:20:57,436 --> 01:21:00,336
Speaker 1: the secret track. How did that, we got off on

1714
01:21:00,376 --> 01:21:02,976
Speaker 1: it because that Larry Graham one is my favorite. But

1715
01:21:03,016 --> 01:21:05,216
Speaker 1: how did that happen? When did that, like?

1716
01:21:05,636 --> 01:21:10,506
Speaker 2: I think I started doing it because I think Prince,

1717
01:21:10,746 --> 01:21:15,376
Speaker 2: when I heard, hello, how are you? it was at

1718
01:21:15,396 --> 01:21:18,056
Speaker 2: the end of the record and I've heard maybe one

1719
01:21:18,126 --> 01:21:22,206
Speaker 2: other person do that. And I was like, I wonder

1720
01:21:22,226 --> 01:21:24,806
Speaker 2: if I just like let the record go off and

1721
01:21:24,866 --> 01:21:28,306
Speaker 2: for like a minute or two, a minute and a half,

1722
01:21:29,446 --> 01:21:30,846
Speaker 2: let it scare the hell out of people if they

1723
01:21:30,866 --> 01:21:33,776
Speaker 2: in the house and the record pops. That's not, I

1724
01:21:33,796 --> 01:21:35,436
Speaker 2: don't want to scare people, but I just thought like,

1725
01:21:35,476 --> 01:21:37,556
Speaker 2: you know, this, this would be a thing that I

1726
01:21:37,576 --> 01:21:40,756
Speaker 2: could start and I can continue to do it. Yeah.

1727
01:21:41,096 --> 01:21:43,516
Speaker 2: And I'm actually going to put out some vinyl pretty soon.

1728
01:21:44,216 --> 01:21:46,976
Speaker 1: Um, Of previous stuff?

1729
01:21:46,996 --> 01:21:49,076
Speaker 2: Previous stuff. And I'm sort of like a vinyl club.

1730
01:21:49,696 --> 01:21:51,796
Speaker 2: I started putting out vinyl.

1731
01:21:51,816 --> 01:21:53,296
Speaker 1: Put the Grateful Dead project down, man.

1732
01:21:53,476 --> 01:21:55,286
Speaker 2: I will. I'm definitely going to do that.

1733
01:21:55,306 --> 01:21:57,426
Speaker 1: I'll buy that on vinyl. The gatefold. Definitely.

1734
01:21:57,856 --> 01:21:59,046
Speaker 2: I'm a vinyl head, you know.

1735
01:21:59,326 --> 01:22:01,646
Speaker 1: Man. Cool. Well, Rafael, thank you so much, man.

1736
01:22:01,666 --> 01:22:02,226
Speaker 2: Thank you, man.

1737
01:22:02,246 --> 01:22:02,646
Speaker 1: What an honor.

1738
01:22:02,926 --> 01:22:04,026
Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you.

1739
01:22:06,706 --> 01:22:08,646
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Rafael Sadiq, for having us out to

1740
01:22:08,666 --> 01:22:11,766
Speaker 1: this beautiful Los Angeles studio. To hear some of our

1741
01:22:11,806 --> 01:22:16,316
Speaker 1: favorite Raphael Sadiq songs, check out a playlist at brokenrecordpodcast.com.

1742
01:22:17,116 --> 01:22:21,296
Speaker 1: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast where

1743
01:22:21,316 --> 01:22:24,456
Speaker 1: you can find all of our new episodes. You can

1744
01:22:24,496 --> 01:22:27,716
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is

1745
01:22:27,766 --> 01:22:30,846
Speaker 1: produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from

1746
01:22:30,906 --> 01:22:34,386
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolley.

1747
01:22:35,256 --> 01:22:38,716
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you

1748
01:22:38,756 --> 01:22:42,126
Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to

1749
01:22:42,226 --> 01:22:46,106
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers

1750
01:22:46,146 --> 01:22:50,686
Speaker 1: bonus content and ad-free listening for $ 4. 99 a month. Look

1751
01:22:50,706 --> 01:22:54,446
Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast Subscriptions. And if you

1752
01:22:54,466 --> 01:22:57,136
Speaker 1: like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review

1753
01:22:57,216 --> 01:23:00,196
Speaker 1: us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.

1754
01:23:00,656 --> 01:23:01,516
Speaker 1: I'm Justin Richmond.