1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Uh, let's have a brief conversation 4 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: with our super producer, Max Williams before we pop the 5 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: top on this one. Max, how you doing? 6 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: You know, I'm holding in there. I'm holding in there 7 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: like you know you're holding in there. Yeah, they're a 8 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: little troublesome today, but we will push through. 9 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, we very much, We very much hopefully will now. 10 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: I am Ben Bullen and my partner in podcast as 11 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: well as Max's Noel Brown is on Some Adventures will 12 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: be returning soon and we have in the meantime been 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: cooking up some ridiculous, some bizarre, special historical historical explorations. 14 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: For this week, we are going to talk about one 15 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: of the most important figures in all of modern horror fiction, 16 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: and we are going to do it in a way 17 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: to show you how weird this guy is. Now. When 18 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: we were cooking up the idea for this episode, part 19 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: of our continuing series on very Weird Authors, we looked 20 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: around and I was thinking, who is the best guy 21 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: to hang with us on this story? Now? Since HP 22 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: Lovecraft is long past beyond the mortal Veil, we went 23 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: to our second choice. Let us welcome Jonathan Strickland, aka 24 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: the Quister, back to Ridiculous History. Dude, how are you doing? 25 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:14,839 Speaker 3: Doing pretty good? I'm feeling a bit weird. That's that's 26 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: just a it's just a shout out to one of 27 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 3: my favorite John Candy lines from Little Shop of Ours. 28 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, No, I'm doing okay. I'm glad that 29 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: you had me on because, uh, listeners probably don't know this, 30 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: but I have. I have a fairly weird relationship with 31 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: the subject matter. 32 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: With the mythos and and actually in when I was 33 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: researching this episode, I didn't mention it off air. I 34 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: was saving it for this. I was researching this episode, 35 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: one of the first things I do often is go 36 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: to our alma mater how stuff works, and I want 37 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: to give credit where it's due. Although we may not 38 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: focus too much on Cuthulhu or an ecronomicon for to exploration, 39 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: I immediately had that meme of a guy like slowly nodding 40 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: in affirmation when I pulled up how Cthulhu works or 41 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: how the Call of Cthulhu works, how the necronomicon works 42 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 1: and saw that both of those articles were written by 43 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: none other than you, and I reread them and I 44 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: want you to know they hold up, They're good. 45 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, that was fun to write. I mean 46 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: so to kind of give you a quick overview of 47 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: my own knowledge and experience with Lovecraft. I am the 48 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 3: child of authors who have written in many genres, including 49 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 3: speculative fiction, and so there's certainly a lovecrafty and influence 50 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: in some of their works. But it also meant I 51 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 3: grew up going to things like science fiction conventions from 52 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 3: a very young age, like this is way before there 53 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 3: was a dragon con. But I did all these sort 54 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: of things and had this experience of being around culture 55 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 3: that was certainly inspired by Lovecraft, if not like outwardly 56 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 3: worshiping at the feet of this problematic author whom we 57 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: will talk about extensively today. And my father, even as 58 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 3: as an author, has adapted the works of Lovecraft for 59 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: audio theater. He has for many, many years participated with 60 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 3: a theatrical group here in Atlanta called the Atlanta Radio 61 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 3: Theater Company or Artsy, and they've done several adaptations of 62 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 3: Lovecraft works, including things like the Call of Cthulhu, the 63 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 3: Color out of Space, Shadow over in Smith, done with Horror, 64 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 3: Rats in the Walls. Yeah, all of these. And Dad 65 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: would tell you that there are a couple of very 66 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: difficult things that you need to do if you're adapting 67 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 3: the works of Lovecraft, like a dialogue. One is one 68 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: is like trying to, you know, downplay the racism quite 69 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 3: a bit. 70 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I have my priorities wrong. I'm not thinking 71 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: in the correct the correct order. There any fan of fiction, 72 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: anybody who is a writer or an author themselves. There 73 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: are two, uh, there are two extremely interesting or is 74 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: our pal Chuck would say hinky things about the mechanics 75 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: of Lovecraft. Whom we are. You know, we'll get into it. 76 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: But the first thing is, even as a kid, it 77 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: always struck me. In multiple Lovecraft stories you will hear 78 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: about what we call cosmic horror, the great old ones, 79 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: the elder Gods, something something so eldrich and incomprehensible that 80 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: the narrator says, there's way I can tell you, or 81 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: explain or describe this thing to you, except for the 82 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: next two pages, where I do so an obsessive detail. 83 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 3: Right, The idea being that whatever the narrating protagonist has 84 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: seen is so beyond human experience and perception that to 85 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: attempt to contemplate it is to invite madness, which you 86 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 3: could argue is either very lazy writing or it's brilliant 87 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 3: in the sense of, you know, any good writer knows 88 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: nothing they write is going to be as effective as 89 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 3: the reader's imagination when it comes to conjuring up an 90 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 3: idea of what these things might be. But to your point, 91 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: the other difficulty my dad ran into was that most 92 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 3: of these stories are written where you have a protagonist 93 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 3: narrator and have almost no dialogue in them. It's almost 94 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 3: all like description of what appen and and like a 95 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 3: description of a conversation as opposed to a conversation playing out, 96 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: which meant my dad had to invent all the conversations 97 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: in order to which so they truly were adaptations. It 98 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 3: was not like just just porting it wasn't an audiobook 99 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: or anything like that. 100 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: I love that point too, because that is the second 101 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: point the the trouble with dialogue just from a mechanical perspective, Uh, 102 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: you you nailed it with a single voice protagonist or 103 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: narrator describing a conversation with Lovecraft sneaking in some of 104 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: his own obsessions and be like, oh, Admiral of Staple White, 105 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: despite being a partially a good old Puritan stock, had 106 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: a bit of a foreign and cast in his eyes 107 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: when he alluded to the incidents in Miskatonic University. 108 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I gotta tell you, when you look 109 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: in someone's eyes, you see that foreign shining in there. 110 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: What is he? Anyway, this is our episode on This 111 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: may be more than one episode, but this is our exploration. Yeah. 112 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 3: Here, here's the too long didn't listen version. Lovecraft was 113 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: xenophobic and racist, but we're going to talk more about 114 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 3: his life and the sort of things that informed his 115 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: experience and perhaps shaped his worldview. And this does not 116 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 3: excuse anything that he wrote about or said in the 117 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 3: in the following years, but perhaps it will give a 118 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: greater understanding. And also, like when you start to wrestle 119 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: with an author's flaws and and you're trying to measure 120 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 3: that against either your admiration for their work or your 121 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: admiration for the impact that they have had. Because even 122 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 3: if you don't like Lovecraft stories, and there are plenty 123 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 3: of reasons, not two chances are you have encountered something 124 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 3: that directly or indirectly was was the result of Lovecraft's work, right, 125 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: whether it's the Evil Dead series, which clearly draws from Lovecraft, 126 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 3: or Stephen King, Stephen. 127 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: King, Yeah, Fallout, Fallout, True True. 128 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 3: True Detective, even though you could argue that that's drawing 129 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: more from Chambers, who is a predecessor to Lovecraft. 130 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: But Robert W. Chambers, the Yellow King. 131 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Yellow King clearly has a huge infam But 132 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: I would argue that a lot of lovecraft influence goes 133 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: into True Detective too, not just Chambers. 134 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and not just the plagiarism of Thomas Leggatti's work. 135 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, which story. 136 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: For another day. And we want to begin today's exploration 137 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: with immense thanks to the world's foremost scholar on HP. Lovecraft, 138 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: an academic professor named st. Joshi st is going to 139 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: be our go to worse for a lot of the 140 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: biographical info here and Jonathan Max. In my mind, after 141 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: we've done this research, I think we can make a 142 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: compelling argument that a lot of Lovecraft's work, a lot 143 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:22,599 Speaker 1: of his canon is inspired and informed by heartbreaking tragedy 144 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: in his personal life, by his own mental health struggles 145 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 1: and by several I'll say it ridiculous obsessions. So okay, 146 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: we'll prove the case. HP Lovecraft. Howard Phillips Lovecraft. He 147 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: is born on August twentieth, eighteen ninety and he's born 148 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: at his family's house. It's a really nice Victorian home 149 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: in Providence, Rhode Island. His mother Sarah Susan Phillips Lovecraft. 150 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: She comes from an old family. She is I don't 151 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: know if you want to call her blue blood, but 152 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: you could trace her ancestry back to the arrival of 153 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: George F. Phillips in Massachusetts, way back in sixteen thirty. 154 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: So this kind of informs Lovecraft's later obsession with the past, right, 155 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: the history and the importance of lineage and bloodline and 156 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,599 Speaker 1: is his father is a guy named Winfield Scott Lovecraft, 157 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: who is a traveling silversmith salesman, which used to be 158 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: a job. 159 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you could argue Paul Revere was a traveling silversmith, 160 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: but it was only because he had to go from 161 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: Plinty to Point B to Warren about the British. But 162 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 3: you know, technically he was a traveling silversmith. No, I 163 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: think you make some good points already been about this 164 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 3: concept of lineage and ancestry and that importance, and it 165 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 3: kind of is an it's instilling within Lovecraft this idea 166 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 3: not just of the importance of lineage, but also a 167 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 3: sense of entitlement, which I don't know. I don't know 168 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 3: how strong that was for him. A lot of this 169 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 3: is like armchair psychology, you know, a century removed, right, 170 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 3: But I feel that there was a sense of an 171 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: entitlement in that a lot of these families had built 172 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 3: up like, oh, we deserve the things that we have, 173 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 3: and when they're taken away, it's an enormous injustice. And 174 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 3: as we'll see, like Lovecraft suffered quite a few massive 175 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: setbacks in his family, massive setbacks, and I get the 176 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: sense that he felt that that was almost a personal 177 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 3: injustice visited upon him and his family. 178 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: Oh one hundred percent. Also, one time in I can't 179 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: remember what course I was taking, but one time I 180 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: received an a minus on anotherwise perfect essay about Lovecraft 181 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: because my thesis statement was, ultimately he decided, I did 182 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: no one was white enough, no one's lineage was, you know, 183 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: the perfect Anglican or Scandinavian stock. That I don't think 184 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: he even cared for Scandinavian people. 185 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: He just got weird. He did at one point praise Hitler. 186 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: He said that the guy was kind of an idiot, 187 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: but he had some good ideas, so. 188 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: Very Kanye West of him. 189 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, But one of the earliest setbacks, or earliest 190 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: tragedies to visit upon him, was the loss of his 191 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: father when he was just a wee toddler. 192 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a heartbreaking story, one of the 193 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: first tragedies he encounters when he's arguably too young to 194 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: remember much about the experience. His father, as you said, 195 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: Jonathan has what contemporary sources describe as a nervous breakdown. 196 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: Now that's kind of like saying hysteria at this point 197 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: in history, because it's a vague term that is used 198 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: to describe a lot of unrelated things. His father is 199 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: taken from Chicago back to Butler Hospital in Providence, and 200 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: his father remains there convalescing or deteriorating for five years 201 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: before he dies on July nineteenth, eighteen ninety eight. So, 202 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: now for young Howard Phillips, his father has been in 203 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: a very bad way, so bad that like something that 204 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: a child should not have to witness. That's where his 205 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: father's been He's told his father is paralyzed in comatose 206 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: during the entirety of these five years, but later research 207 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: would verify, with ninety plus accuracy, ninety plus percent accuracy, 208 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: the Lovecraft's father actually expired due to a form of syphilis. 209 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and that won't be the last time that syphilis, 210 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 3: or as the English used to like to call it, 211 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 3: the French disease. Well, we'll factor into this. I mean, 212 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 3: I figure, if we're gonna talk about xenophobia and racism, 213 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 3: we might as well just sort of pepper it into 214 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 3: the conversation. 215 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: Let's just yeah, you know what, I think it's good 216 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: for the structure. I think you're on the money. 217 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the French called it the English disease 218 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: to be fair, So it's. 219 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: Those guys classic. Yeah. And look, so his father passes 220 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: his way, his mother is alive, and his guardians then, 221 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: or like the village that raises him, becomes his mother, 222 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: his two aunts, and for a time, his grandmother. We 223 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: may get to that later, but his grandfather is a 224 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: particular interest to us because he is essentially a character 225 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: ripped from the pages of Edward Gorey comic strip. You know, 226 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: he's a prominent industrialist. His name get I know, we 227 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: both know this, so silly. His name is Whipper van 228 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: Buren Phillips. 229 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 3: Oh, good old Whipple, Whipple choice, mister Whipple. I mean, like, okay, 230 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 3: that's a reference that none of your listeners are going 231 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: to know except for the old timers like me. But yeah, 232 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 3: I So this is where I've been debating on where 233 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 3: to put this particular thing, because I mean, it's something 234 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 3: that's famous that a lot of people who are aware 235 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: of Lovecraft outside of just his fiction, they know about this. 236 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: But it's probably a good place to put it because 237 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: it was the family pet. This This is where we 238 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: have to mention that that I think Lovecraft he was 239 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: very fond of cats, and he had he had a cat, 240 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: a black cat. And I will not say the name 241 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 3: of this black cat because it uses a particularly awful 242 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 3: racial slur, and a lot of people who talk about 243 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 3: Lovecraft mentioned this cat and mentioned the fact that he 244 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 3: owned this cat and named this cat this terrible slur. 245 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 3: I would contest that somewhat in that we do not 246 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 3: know that it was Lovecraft who named that cat. It 247 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: may have been, but it may have been one of 248 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 3: the members of his family because he was just a 249 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 3: child at the time. But I think it's more indicative 250 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 3: that the family as a whole had no compunction, no 251 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 3: compunction to avoid racial slurs, which, by the time at 252 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 3: this time are racial slurs. It's not like, oh, it 253 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 3: was a different time and people didn't consider it a slur. No, 254 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 3: they did, They fully did. But yes, this would be 255 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 3: right around that time. In fact, when we get to 256 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,479 Speaker 3: the point where the grandfather exits the picture, he exits 257 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 3: the picture the same year that that cat disappears. 258 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: And we know cats play a big role in a 259 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: lot of Lovecrafty and work. Right, even that the parts 260 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: of the canon or the mythos that he himself generated, 261 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: which is at this point you could argue a fundamental, 262 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: yet relatively small percentage of the overall mythos. Lovecraft is 263 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: a precocious kid, very much. Yeah, he's reading at age three, 264 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: around age six or seven, he is also actively writing 265 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: stuff juvenilia, you know, maybe some nonfiction thoughts on science 266 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: or paraphrasing of Greek and Arabic based works that he 267 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: had been exposed to earlier. This is a great anecdote, 268 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: since we are rightly dunking on some of his evil views. 269 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: Will give you one very rare story about this guy 270 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: being a cute kid. So he reads Arabian Nights when 271 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: he's around five years old, and this rocks his world, 272 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: Like this smacks his balls off and he is so 273 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: into it. You know how when like some kids will 274 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: watch a movie like Deadpool or Aceventura and then that's 275 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: their personality for the summer. 276 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I that's I'm familiar. I can tell you 277 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: what mine was when I was so I have distinct memories. 278 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 3: This does not speak well of me, but I'm going 279 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: to go ahead and share it anyway, because I mean, 280 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 3: I'm almost fifty, so what the heck? Uh? When I 281 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 3: was a kid, the game that I would play with 282 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: my friends was that we would make up stories that 283 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: exist within the rich mythological world of the Dukes of Hazard, 284 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 3: and my designated role was to play the brave officer 285 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: of the law, Roscoe P. Coltrane. True God, yeah, absolutely, 286 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 3: Like you know, a a an example of what the 287 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: justice system is, you know what. I wish that were 288 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 3: a joke, but it kind of isn't anyway anyway, for 289 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 3: for like a summer. Yeah, like that was just like 290 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 3: we were because that was a very popular show when 291 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 3: I was a kid, and that was something that but 292 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 3: like any kid can think about that, like from my dad. 293 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 3: The book that got him, uh, kind of inhabiting imaginary 294 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: worlds was Treasure Island, Robert Lewis Stevenson's Treasure Island. So 295 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 3: same sort of thing. Like if you had Red Treasure 296 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,959 Speaker 3: Island as a kid, and that really sparked your imagination, 297 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: you might invent for yourself a persona related to pirates. 298 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 3: So exactly so Lovecraft invents a persona inspired by Arabian nights, 299 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 3: and this is one that would actually factor into his 300 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 3: literary works. Many years later, he creates a persona named 301 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 3: Abdul alhazread now in Lovecraft's later works, that's part of 302 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 3: his title. You usually hear it as the mad Arab 303 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 3: Abdul Alhazred, which again xenophobia and all that. But his 304 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 3: claim to fame within the Lovecraft mythos is this is 305 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,959 Speaker 3: the author of the infamous Necronomicon. 306 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and he has, through madness and through conspiring 307 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: and parlaying with dark powers beyond the ken of human understanding. 308 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: He is translated or imparted some very small percentage of 309 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: knowledge from these other planes to the human world and 310 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: doing so again. Absolutely, I have some bonkers. Anybody who 311 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: reads the book runs the risk of going mad or 312 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: being waylaid by these evil powers. But the reason we 313 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: think that Jonathan and Max and I think this is 314 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: a rare cute story is because you have to picture 315 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: it in like a ridiculous history cinematic adaptation of Young Lovecraft. 316 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: It's true, folks, at some point a five year old 317 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: genuinely woke up one day in his house and walked 318 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: around and told everyone he could meet. No, no, I'm 319 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: not Howie anymore, call me Abdul Alhazarin. 320 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 3: In Providence, Rhode Island. An important component of taking that 321 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 3: picture into account. 322 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, he was not a super diverse place. Uh. Then, 323 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: like we said, he gets obsessed with Greek mythology, and 324 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: you can see his You can see his earliest surviving work, 325 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: The Pull of Ulysses, in eighteen ninety seven. It's pretty 326 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: much paraphrasing stuff he read earlier. And then his first 327 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: work we know about is actually weird fiction. It's called 328 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: The New Bread Eavesdropper. He may have written it in 329 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety six, but from what I understand there are 330 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: no extant copies, so we really don't know. Maybe it 331 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: was the best thing he ever wrote. 332 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 3: We have references to this lost story, but we don't 333 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 3: have the story itself. It's kind of like the Cardinio 334 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 3: with William Shakespeare. 335 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: Oh oh, okay, flex and those English lip muscles. 336 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 3: Listen, I get so few opportunities to do it. 337 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: Well, well done man. We also know it's strange this 338 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: concept of what was called weird fiction at the time, 339 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: because the ideas or stories that had stuff like cosmic 340 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: horror in it, they already existed. Yes, at this point. 341 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 3: Often we think of Lovecraft as being the creator of 342 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 3: weird fiction, but that is that is not correct. Honestly, 343 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 3: the more you dive into history in general, and Ben 344 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 3: you know this, You've been diving into history for years now. 345 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 3: But the more you dive into it, the more you realize, oh, 346 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: things don't really have a clear cut beginning, middle and end. 347 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: Usually it's almost always middle. You're almost always middle, and 348 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 3: like there might appear to be an end, but then 349 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 3: maybe a generation later, it resurfaces. That sort of think 350 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 3: same thing is true of weird fiction in that while 351 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 3: certain formats like the novel were relatively young. I mean, 352 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 3: in the grand scheme of things, weird fiction was already 353 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: something that was being explored by authors before Lovecraft was 354 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 3: even born. 355 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah. And really the idea of genres 356 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: evolving and that kind of method of categorization that is 357 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: still a continuing thing. You know, how how do we 358 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: bucket this creative work? Which leads me to one brief 359 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: soap box complaint that has nothing to do with this. 360 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: With all due respect to the academics and the hungover 361 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: substitute teachers in the crowd today, I think postmodern literature 362 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: as a term is kind of dumb. 363 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 3: I agree. I took a course in postmodern literature, and 364 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 3: the the thing I took away from it is, oh, 365 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 3: this is what we call stuff that we can't easily 366 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 3: classify into some other bucket exactly. 367 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: Just call it miscellaneous, yeah, modern miscellaneous. 368 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 3: Anyway, it's it's It's why why I'm glad you use 369 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 3: the term specul or we both use the term speculative fiction, right, 370 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: because because that's something that is it's such a broad category. 371 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: You could argue it has very little utility because it 372 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 3: doesn't give you enough information about what the what what 373 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 3: bucket this this story falls into. But it's very useful 374 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: because the weird fiction genre has elements of science fiction, 375 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 3: it has elements of horror, it has elements of psychological 376 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 3: thriller in it. There are a lot of different components 377 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 3: that go in together to make weird fiction, and typically 378 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 3: you're talking about things that are matters that are much 379 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 3: much larger than humans can comprehend, right. 380 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's that. I think that's a great defining 381 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: characteristic or axiom for what we call speculative or weird fiction. 382 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: And you can see a bevy of tremendous, fantastic authors 383 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: who later take up that mantle, in no small way 384 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: informed by the works of Lovecraft. We're talking folks like 385 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: Laird Baron. We're talking folks like you know, Roberty too 386 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: many names, Roberty Howard, Robert Block, you know, Oh, Nathaniel 387 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: Balingrad is a guy I've been really into. 388 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 3: Got to check out so tons of tons of folks, 389 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 3: some of whom actually corresponded with and collaborated with Lovecraft. 390 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: Yes, many of whom, And I think that was one 391 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: of the most progressive aspects of the way that they 392 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: went about constructing this universe. All of those people that 393 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: you and I just named, Jonathan, they owe a debt 394 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: to Lovecraft, for sure, but they also, in doing so, 395 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: owe a huge and often unacknowledged debt to Howard's very 396 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: strange grandfather. Would who would grab this little kid, And 397 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: this is, by the way, in the era where breaching 398 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: was still a thing. Check out our bothersome episode on that. 399 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: He would get young Howard when it was like grandpa time, 400 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: and instead of telling him fun marry stories of Jack 401 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: and the Beanstalk or nursery rhymes or grim adaptations or anything, 402 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: he would tell him very disturbing, strange, Gothic informed stories 403 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: that were probably not appropriate for a child. 404 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, keeping in mind that his grandfather would have been 405 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 3: probably a contemporary of Edgar Allen Poe at that point, right. 406 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: Good point. 407 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: So, so, like you think about Poe and Poe's works 408 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 3: and the kind of Gothic influence that Poe had, that's 409 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 3: sort of what I imagine is him coming up with 410 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: like ghost stories and things of that nature that really 411 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: tap into that dark esthetic Leyden genre of Gothic horror. 412 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 3: This is where we really talk about the Edward Gorey influence, 413 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 3: which is funny because side note, Edward Gorey illustrated one 414 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 3: of the books my dad wrote, so oh cool. It 415 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 3: was one of the yeah, one of the later ones 416 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 3: of Gory's career. But yeah, it's it's kind of just 417 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 3: fun to think about that because you know, I've also 418 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 3: had that experience, right, Like I as a kid, I 419 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: grew up hearing my dad tell all these kind of 420 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 3: crazy stories, things that would make it like it's all 421 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 3: the all the trimmings, the stuff that hit the cutter 422 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 3: room floor that didn't make it into his literary career. 423 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 3: I got the benefit of getting to hear those. 424 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you were the test audience. Yeah, right, yeah. 425 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: So it's it's like some dark version of a known 426 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,239 Speaker 1: comic surprising people at the comedy cellar, right right, right. 427 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if this will make it in the set, 428 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: but here's. 429 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna work out some material 430 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 3: here and see how much of this bomb's yeah, they'll 431 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 3: tell your mom no. 432 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: So this is yeah, this is you know, we're we're 433 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: mentioning that we're gory stuff. And that's really cool fact 434 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: that I just learned about you and your dad. But 435 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: the reason we feel this is so gory esque is 436 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: because at this point Lovecraft has all the things of 437 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: a typical pseudo Victorian and gory character, you know, a 438 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: gashly crumb tiny. He is not just isolated from other 439 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: people in a very weird mansion. He doesn't just have creepy, 440 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: somewhat Adams family esque relatives in charge of his upbringing. 441 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: He also has a range of Victorian maladies, many of 442 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: which we would call psychological. 443 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's somewhat of a sickly child. I'm thinking 444 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 3: like like he would have fit right in with the 445 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 3: Secret Garden. But but these illnesses are not strictly or 446 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: not only of the physical variety. As you mentioned, he 447 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 3: appeared to exhibit some psychological issues as well, things that 448 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: we wouldn't have a grander understanding of for many years. 449 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 3: So you know, you have the double negative impact, not 450 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 3: double negative in the sense of ain't no, but double 451 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 3: negative in the sense of two negative things hitting him 452 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 3: at the same time. One, he's the product of a 453 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 3: storied family line, where typically that's something you just don't 454 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 3: talk about, right If your relatives are a little bit funny, 455 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 3: then you don't talk about that. Very great gardens but secondly, 456 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 3: you also have a lack of understanding in general of 457 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 3: psychological issues in the human mind, so there's very little 458 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 3: recourse you can seek to actually help you. And so 459 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 3: this kid has some major strikes against him from the 460 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 3: get go. 461 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's often as a result not attending school. He's 462 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: a very very intelligent person, no one is disputing that. 463 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: But his grades and his records often indicate his intellectual potential. 464 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 3: Right Individually, He goes and seeks out lots of information 465 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 3: about subjects that really interest him. So he does study 466 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 3: things like the sciences, particularly chemistry and astronomy. So it's 467 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 3: not as if he's going forward ignorant of these things. 468 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,239 Speaker 3: He is seeking that information out because he found it 469 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 3: fascinating on a personal level. So it wasn't necessarily due 470 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 3: to the schools he was attending as a small child. 471 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 3: It was more his innate curiosity that was fueling this. 472 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 473 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we you know you, Max and I being 474 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: a house of works, folks, we love that. We love 475 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: oh yeah, self directed learning. 476 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 3: I mean that was that was kind of like the 477 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 3: mission statement for the entire website was that it was 478 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 3: all about curiosity. 479 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And that's a lesson that I think 480 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: holds true. I don't think. It's not my opinion, it 481 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: holds true in the modern day. One of the best 482 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: things you can do is be curious. Now, there are 483 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: some diminishing returns past certain thresholds we've opened there, And 484 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: maybe that's kind of a parable too that reflects later 485 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: in Lovecraft's work. His life gets a little bit better 486 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: when he makes it to high school, place called. 487 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 3: Hope Street High School the fundamental opposite for most people, 488 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: right right, Yeah, most people would be like Buffy the 489 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 3: Vampire Slayer is a television series that was built on 490 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 3: the premise that high school is hell and that the 491 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 3: entire series, or at least the first half of that series, 492 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 3: was based on that premise and exploring that in a 493 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 3: very literal sense. And it's funny to me, of course, 494 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 3: it would be Lovecraft who would find the opposite is true, 495 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 3: that hey, things got better in high school. 496 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: Yeah right, Wow, being a freshman is awesome. He gets 497 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,479 Speaker 1: several long lasting friendships from his time in high school, 498 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: and he also starts exploring the world of communication and 499 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: publishing with all this knowledge he stored up in his 500 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: I'll say it, creepy, little head. His first printed work 501 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: appears so early, and thanks to St. Josie for doing 502 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: the research work here. It's published in the Providence Sunday 503 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: Journal in nineteen six, and pretty much immediately after that 504 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: he starts writing for other local papers. He does columns 505 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: on astronomy, he does local human interest stories, and he 506 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: does something that personally impressed me because I've done something 507 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: similar when I was a maladjusted younger person. He makes 508 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: his own scientific journals, you could call them, and he 509 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: distributes them like mixtapes or zines to his friends. So 510 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: imagine we're in high school with this guy, you know 511 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: what I mean. We want to go play whatever sport there, 512 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: play stickball or something, and he's like, no, first, please 513 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: read by scientific journal. We're like, dude, is that handwritten? 514 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 3: I've written a treatise, treat this one chemical reaction that 515 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 3: I observed the other day. It's it's so compelling. 516 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: He seems like a lot of fun at parties, right, 517 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: And we're duncating out him out of affection. But we 518 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: can say at this point, yes, he's eccentric. He's a 519 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: little scamp, right, He's maybe a bit of a milk toast, 520 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: bit of a Wallflower, but he seems well set to 521 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: pursue a path toward wholesome nerdity. I don't know if 522 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: that's a word. But then Jonathan, everything goes wrong. There's 523 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 1: more tragedy ahead, and this is where stuff really goes 524 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: south for Lovecraft. 525 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it does involve a little bit of backtracking 526 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 3: to talk about the tragedies that befell because the first, 527 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 3: like we just mentioned, his first work being published in 528 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 3: nineteen oh six, well two years previous, nineteen oh four, 529 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 3: that's when his grandfather passes and his beloved racist cat disappears. 530 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that is yeah, and I'm glad to point 531 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: that out, his beloved racist cat. 532 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 3: To be fair, I don't know that the cat was racist, 533 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 3: but we don't know if the cat was racist, Yes, 534 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 3: but we do know the name of the cat was very, 535 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 3: very racist. 536 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: And the environment that approved of that name also. 537 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 3: Extremely undeniably racist. Yes, and unrepentantly. Yes, proudly, one might say, 538 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 3: proudly audaciously because because Lovecraft did make mention by name 539 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 3: of this cat multiple times once he became an established author, 540 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 3: so it's not like he was shying away from it. 541 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: And he also wrote some terribly racist poetry. His first loves, 542 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: indeed were essays and poetry before he got into fiction. Look, 543 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: and it's quite possible that we would have never heard 544 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: of Lovecraft as an author. After the death of his 545 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: grandfather and the mismanagement of his family fortune, their nest egg, 546 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 1: they went broke. They got into severe financial difficulties such 547 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: that Lovecraft and his mom have to move out of 548 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: their posh Victorian home. They lose the house. This is devastating, 549 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: and now you know we're in just a much less 550 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: well appointed domicile. This depresses Lovecraft so much so that 551 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: a lot of scholars believe he was contemplating serious self harm. 552 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: And in nineteen oh eight, right as he set to 553 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: graduate Hope High School, he has a nervous breakdown, which 554 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: means he leaves school without his diploma the Domino's fault. 555 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 1: This means he also fails to enter Brown University, which 556 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: he had always just assumed that he would. 557 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 3: Enter, and he likely would have been able to had 558 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 3: he not had his breakdown. Also, you might think, already 559 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 3: we're talking nervous breakdown that may bring up echoes of 560 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 3: the past due to you know, the passing of his father. 561 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 3: And as we will see the mental health issues were 562 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 3: not not solely relegated to his father and to himself. 563 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 3: You could say that, I'm reminded of a silly line 564 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 3: in Arsenic and Old Lace where something along the like 565 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 3: insanity doesn't run in my family. It positively gallops. 566 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: I remember that one. Yes, and there's there's some disturbing 567 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: sand to that. You know. After this great failure in 568 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: the world of the Ivory Tower, Lovecraft is going into 569 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: self imposed solitude. You could say he's a hermit. You 570 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: could say, you know, like in Japan, they have the 571 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: thing called hikiko mori, which is people to simply lock 572 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: themselves into do a very limited space and check out 573 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: from the world. And he already had this tendency a 574 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: lot of lonely children do to lose oneself in film 575 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: and in fiction and works of fancy. At this point, 576 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: he isn't really doing much with his life. He is again, 577 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: as he said, he is intensely curious. He is a 578 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: self taught person, so he's still pursuing his astronomical interest, 579 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: which sometimes border on obsessive. He's still writing poetry. And 580 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: during this time, as you so stutely eluded, Jonathan, during 581 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: this time, he and his mom locked in a much 582 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: smaller place, him not really talking to a lot of 583 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: other people, they develop what is called what is often 584 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,839 Speaker 1: portrayed as an unhealthily close relationship. His mom still very 585 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,280 Speaker 1: much is distraught with the manner of her husband's death 586 00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: and losing her spouse, and she has what various schol 587 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: will call a pathological and dangerous love hate relationship with 588 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: her son. And we've seen it, you know. Sometimes you 589 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: see somebody and their parents and you're like, you, guys, 590 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: got a little why do you should move? 591 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 3: Yeah? Interesting little side note here. This is a bit 592 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,240 Speaker 3: of a tangent, and I apologize, but I am wont 593 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,479 Speaker 3: to do such things. One of the authors who would 594 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,760 Speaker 3: eventually correspond with Lovecraft, as we'll mention, Lovecraft was crazy 595 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 3: about correspondence. I think he was. It was estimated that 596 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 3: he wrote more than one hundred thousand letters in his lifetime. 597 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 3: One of those correspondents was Robert Block, who was a 598 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 3: teenager when he first reached out to Lovecraft. And this 599 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 3: is when Lovecraft is an established author. So this is 600 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 3: further along in our timeline. But the reason I bring 601 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 3: this up is Robert Block. You may be familiar with 602 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 3: that name. That is the man who wrote the novel Psycho, 603 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 3: which obviously then became adapted into a film by now 604 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 3: Alfred Hitchcock and became famous. Really, it made Robert Block 605 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 3: go from a notable author to a famous author. And 606 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 3: while Block never ever mentioned anything about Lovecraft as an 607 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 3: inspiration at all for any elements of Psycho, I think 608 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 3: if you start reading about this kind of thing and 609 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,959 Speaker 3: you realize that Block and Lovecraft had a collaborative relationship 610 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 3: and knew each other pretty well when Block was a 611 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 3: young man, I think it's easy to draw some lines 612 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 3: that may or may not be valid, but draw some 613 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,320 Speaker 3: lines between Lovecraft's experience and some of the story elements 614 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 3: that you find in Psycho. 615 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: That's fascinating. I haven't thought about that. I don't think 616 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: it's a tangent I would say, I would you know what, 617 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: I would place it as circumstantial and compelling. 618 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 3: Speculative is perhaps the best kindest word we can use. 619 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I wouldn't say speculative fiction, no, just speculators. 620 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: It's interesting too, because that is you'll hear us refer 621 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: to this fairly often, Pepper. Through our exploration here, there 622 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: are a lot of authors yet to come who, most 623 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: of whom will readily acknowledge the impact of Lovecraft's work 624 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: on them, But then there are several who will shy 625 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: away from that despite compelling speculation. 626 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 3: Right right, And to be clear, Block and Lovecraft there's 627 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 3: an undeniable connection because they incorporate elements of one another's 628 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 3: work into their works. That's something else we'll chat about 629 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 3: a little bit later on. But yes, whether or not 630 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 3: Lovecraft's experience with his own mother had anything to do 631 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 3: with informing the writing of Psycho that, I mean, it 632 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 3: could be that Block was completely unaware of that element 633 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 3: of Lovecrafts past. Yeah, I don't know. 634 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think you're making a really good 635 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 1: case here. And then that as to our next question. 636 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,439 Speaker 1: So at this point, this guy's life is going ridiculously bad. Right. 637 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: He is a hermit. His closest friend and greatest enemy 638 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: is his biological mother. 639 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 3: He has no real world skills with which he can 640 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 3: use to attain a living like he came from a 641 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 3: pampered background that was focused on more academia than any 642 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 3: practical skills you might use if you need to, you know, 643 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 3: make ends meet. 644 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: Right, right, he has a patrician's philosophy and a peasant's pocketbook. 645 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: And that's that's not an ideal situation, especially if you 646 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,919 Speaker 1: are forced to find the job and you realize, oh, 647 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 1: I can't men shoes, I can't make barrels, I can't 648 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: do the other what I assume or most popular industries 649 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: at that time. 650 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 3: Working in a cannery, a cattery. 651 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: Yes, being a heneman. So here's the deal it could have. 652 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: If history went just a little bit differently, we may 653 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: well live in a world without Lovecraft. He may have 654 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: just lingered, languish, died obscurity. But he read a He 655 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: was a voracious reader then, as always, and he read 656 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: a series of love stories by a pulp author named 657 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: Fred Jackson, and they pissed him off so much. 658 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 3: He's like, screw this, this ridiculous, sappy love stuff. This 659 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 3: isn't even worth putting pen to paper. You should be 660 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 3: ashamed of yourself. Hey, Hey, the argacy, the publication that 661 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 3: published these, you should be ashamed for carrying this this 662 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 3: tripe in your rag of a publication. And I am 663 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 3: so angry. I'm going to do what countless YouTube comment 664 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 3: will do in the future. I'm going to write a 665 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:08,879 Speaker 3: nasty response to it, except Lovecraft, being well educated and 666 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 3: extremely well read, was able to put it into biting 667 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 3: and sharp terms that your typical YouTube comment tends to lack. 668 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: And he did it in verse just to put a 669 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:29,839 Speaker 1: little style on it. And he wrote a series of 670 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 1: these things. His letter obviously is great for the argacy. Right, 671 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,240 Speaker 1: this is cooling because. 672 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 3: They publish it. It's not just otherwise we would never 673 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 3: even know about. 674 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: This, right, Yeah, they publish it and Jackson's Defenders just 675 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: like a YouTube comment page. I love the comparison. Jackson's 676 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: Defenders come out of the woodwork. You know, why are 677 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: you talking about my boy like this? And Lovecraft responds 678 00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: with yet more poison pen style verses. There's a heated 679 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 1: debate that's selling copies left and right for the argus. 680 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: People are picking it up to read the column like 681 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: what are these I don't know if we need to 682 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: beat me here, Max, but what are these assholes saying 683 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 1: about each other at this time? 684 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? It's essentially the early twentieth century version of a 685 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 3: disc track. 686 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,919 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think that is a very good comparison. 687 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 1: This is a beef, and this beef launches Lovecraft's career 688 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: it's only because he got so pissed at these love stories. 689 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: People are reading this, as we said, it's popular. One 690 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: guy reading this is dude named Edward F. Das the AAS. 691 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: He is the president of an outfit called United Amateur 692 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: Press Association or UPA. They just like dropping a glass 693 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: in a Greek restaurant. 694 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:57,359 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I was thinking of go go Bardello's kind 695 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 3: of kind of exclibs and whenever the song gets a 696 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:06,720 Speaker 3: little quiet, whoa bah. Yeah, this is a It's interesting 697 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 3: because this is an organization designed for amateur writers. Right, 698 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,919 Speaker 3: It's not like this isn't like a professional organization. Quite 699 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 3: the opposite. It's to it's to encourage amateur writers to 700 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 3: pursue the craft and to perhaps make that transition from 701 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 3: amateur to professional. 702 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: By publishing their own zines. 703 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 3: Which which is again something that we see today now, 704 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,360 Speaker 3: we see it where people are going through Amazon to 705 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 3: self publish and just to bypass the entire publication industry 706 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 3: out there, which has its ups and downs. Right, Like 707 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 3: there's good and bad of that. Like anyone literally anyone 708 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 3: can become a published author. One of the people on 709 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 3: this podcast is a published author. I'm not saying that 710 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 3: he didn't earn it. I'm just saying, do you hear that? 711 00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: Next? Anyway, we are looking forward to the next volume 712 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:06,360 Speaker 1: of uh Max's comprehensive critical discourse on Star Trek. 713 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 2: Also, if you guys don't mind, I would like to 714 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 2: jump in real quick with a completely off topic tangent. 715 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 3: Sure, prepare yourself. It's about it's about. 716 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:15,880 Speaker 2: It's gonna be about football. 717 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: Okay. 718 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 2: So I'm a University of Michigan fan. Uh, there's a 719 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 2: running back and then a running back coach in Michigan 720 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 2: history by the name of Fred Jackson. He's beloved, he's 721 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,839 Speaker 2: supposed to be a great guy, and uh, he's also 722 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 2: known for just being hyperbolic all the time. Like he 723 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 2: compared like all of his running back recruits to Mike Hart, 724 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,280 Speaker 2: who was like the all time leading rusher at Michigan. 725 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, he's Mike Mike Hart, but fast. But 726 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 2: that is not the story I want to tell right now. 727 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 2: I want to tell the story about there's a running 728 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,799 Speaker 2: back by the name of Drake Johnston who goes in 729 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,239 Speaker 2: the store, goes into like the office Fred Jackson, and 730 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 2: Fred Jackson just I guess he has a lot of drinks. 731 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,760 Speaker 2: So I'm cording this off of a m go blog, 732 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 2: my favorite Michigan blog. I'm just gonna read a little 733 00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 2: bit of it, and I'm gonna see if you guys 734 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 2: enjoy it, and then I'll shout so you guys can 735 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 2: talk about uh, Lovecraft a little. 736 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 1: More bonus points though, if you can somehow segue it 737 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,440 Speaker 1: back to Lovecraft. Oh, I see your conversational Parkour. 738 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 2: All right, So I'm gonna read the quote here. I'm 739 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,359 Speaker 2: sitting in his office and there was a fridge right 740 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 2: over there and he's like, you hungry, Johnson said. I'm like, no, man, 741 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 2: I'm not hungry. So he's like, okay, I want to go. 742 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to go grab myself a coke. So grab 743 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 2: himself a coke and sits down, takes two SIPs, and 744 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,400 Speaker 2: he's like, hey, Drake, you want something to drink? And 745 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I'm good. He's like, I think I'm 746 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 2: gonna get myself an orange juice. I'm like, dude, you 747 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 2: have a coach just in front of you. He says 748 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 2: it's fine. So I'm sitting there and maybe two minutes 749 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 2: later he's like, I think I'm gonna gonna get myself 750 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,400 Speaker 2: a drink, and I'm like, coach, you already have two 751 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 2: drinks in front of you. Man, your thirst can be 752 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 2: quenched by what is in front of you. He's like, 753 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,320 Speaker 2: he says, I'm just gonna grab myself some water. 754 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,239 Speaker 3: You want some water. 755 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I have my gatoray in my hand. 756 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,879 Speaker 2: It's fine. 757 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 3: That's that. 758 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 2: That's the whole story I mean. But like you know, 759 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:12,600 Speaker 2: Fred Jackson, is this trying to quench the thirst that 760 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 2: that that Lovecraft that's actually his real name. That was 761 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,040 Speaker 2: that was like a made up one, that thirst, but 762 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,120 Speaker 2: it was that Lovecraft had. But it's a different type 763 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 2: of thirst. Love prests. Thirst was for revenge and anger 764 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,839 Speaker 2: at the inferior Fred Jackson. 765 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:33,120 Speaker 3: Right, well, and he has the name love Craft, so 766 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:38,359 Speaker 3: he should know what a good romantic story should how 767 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,120 Speaker 3: that should be written. And clearly this inferior Fred Jackson 768 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 3: had no, no concept of that. But this, this president 769 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:58,359 Speaker 3: of this amateur writer's organization, extends a hand to young Lovecraft, 770 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:03,440 Speaker 3: who who desperately needs a hand extended to him at 771 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:09,560 Speaker 3: this point in his life to join woo ba whoo bah. 772 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Lovecraft takes him up on it because his 773 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: social dance card is not super crowded. He does this 774 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen. He will later go on to become 775 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 1: the president of OPAH as well as the official editor. 776 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 1: Hold the phone, look up into the nights, not just 777 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 1: at the stars, but the darkness between the stars, which 778 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: tells us the time is right for us to end 779 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:39,120 Speaker 1: Part one of our exploration on how HP Lovecraft was 780 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: just so so weird. Thanks again to our super producer 781 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,440 Speaker 1: mister Max Williams, to our composer Alex Williams. I did 782 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 1: allot the research for this episode, and thanks to aj 783 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:55,040 Speaker 1: Bahamas Jacobs of course Jonathan, thank you for hanging out 784 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,680 Speaker 1: with us. Man, it's been a blast. You were yourself 785 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: the whole time, and you know, Max and I and 786 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: Nola as well, vicariously, we really appreciate that. 787 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely. I appreciate being invited on. I feel like you 788 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 3: and I have a lot more to say about this, 789 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,239 Speaker 3: not just because we already have done that and we're 790 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 3: retroactively going back to record this outro and I feel 791 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,000 Speaker 3: I feel ninety seven percent sure that I will remain 792 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,479 Speaker 3: myself for the entirety of the part two. 793 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 1: Well, you know, man, this is going to be a 794 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,520 Speaker 1: trust fall for me, and I'm sure nothing will go wrong, 795 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,239 Speaker 1: so tune in. Later this week. We'll follow up with 796 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: part two of HP Lovecraft being so just so very Weird. 797 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: As my pal Noel always likes to say, We'll see 798 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:54,359 Speaker 1: you next time, folks. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, 799 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,720 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 800 00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:58,800 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.