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Speaker 1: How does a nineteen year old girl, a beautiful, bubbly

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Speaker 1: cheerleader end up burned alive? You know, there are many

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Speaker 1: ways to die, and I believe I prosecuted every single

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Speaker 1: one of them. But to be burned alive? Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, I mean, see Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Thoughts Nation

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Speaker 1: and series x M one eleven. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: Lisa Chambers. Jessica had left home and went to the store,

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Speaker 1: come back about twelve thirty one o'clock. She got her

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Speaker 1: pajama pants and piled up in a chair in the

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Speaker 1: living room and went to sleep. Sometime between four forty

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Speaker 1: five and five fifteen, she got a phone call. I

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Speaker 1: text whichever one it was, I'm not sure. And then

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Speaker 1: she went out the door and said she'd be back

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Speaker 1: to clean up her room. She was going to get

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Speaker 1: her something to eat. I called her and she said,

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Speaker 1: I'll be home in a little while. Mama, But I

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Speaker 1: love you. I told her I loved her too. She said,

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Speaker 1: seeing a little bit, and that's the last I heard

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Speaker 1: from her. You could be talking about a twelve year

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Speaker 1: old daughter curled up in a favorite chair in her

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Speaker 1: pj's and gets a phone call on her cell. But Jessica,

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Speaker 1: nineteen years old, then leaves to go to seven to

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Speaker 1: eleven to pick up a snack, gets something to eat.

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Speaker 1: How does this bubbly and beautiful teen girl, a cheerleader

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Speaker 1: end up burned? Alive? With me an all star panel.

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Speaker 1: Former felony prosecutor now defense attorney Darryl Cohen joining me.

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Speaker 1: Steve Lampley, detective author of Outside Your Door at Stephen

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Speaker 1: Lampley dot com. Retired medical examiner for the State of Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Sperry, who has been a witnessed in more

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Speaker 1: cases than I can count for the state and the

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Speaker 1: defense as well. A renowned psychiatrist joining us from the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angela Arnold with us today, but first

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Speaker 1: WIATCBS forty two, Birmingham, Michael Clark. This is just a

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Speaker 1: nineteen year old girl. The mom says she was curled

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Speaker 1: up in pj's, got a phone call in and decide

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Speaker 1: to go out and get something to eat. Where was

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Speaker 1: she headed? According to her mother years ago, she wanted

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Speaker 1: to go to the Taco Belt in Date from Assippi

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Speaker 1: to get something to eat with some friends, and that

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Speaker 1: was the last correspondence that she had with her. It

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Speaker 1: was a normal thing for Jessica to want to leave

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Speaker 1: the house and running there and with friends, and she

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Speaker 1: didn't think anything of it. It was suppertime the local

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Speaker 1: Taco Bell. Okay, I am very big on nutrition, making

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Speaker 1: sure my children get the right amounts of fruits and veggies, organic,

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Speaker 1: the whole shebang. But my daughter has a weakness for

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Speaker 1: Taco Bell. She loves Taco Bell, and long story short,

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Speaker 1: she ends up dragging the whole family there because if

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Speaker 1: Lucy's not happy, nobody's happy. So the mom thinks Jessica's

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Speaker 1: heading out to the local Taco Bell. But that's not

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Speaker 1: at all what happens. Take a listen to this. I

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Speaker 1: got out and I got a blanket, and she had

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Speaker 1: her arms out, was coming towards me saying, help me,

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Speaker 1: help me help. What was the condition of Jessica Chambers.

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Speaker 1: Her hair was her hair was fried out like she

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Speaker 1: stuck in the light socket, and she had black all

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Speaker 1: over her face. Her body was severely burned and just

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Speaker 1: all the way down her body was it was very

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Speaker 1: badly burned. And I wrapped the blanket around her for

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Speaker 1: one to conceal her. I always knew that learned that,

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Speaker 1: you know, burned victims would be cold, and so that's why,

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Speaker 1: you know, I placed the blanket around her. So nineteen

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Speaker 1: year old Jessica leaves to go to Taco Bell and

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Speaker 1: then suddenly the fire chief shows up and Jessica it's

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Speaker 1: totally burned. And it strikes me that he says her

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Speaker 1: hair was quote fried, like she had been shocked. And

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Speaker 1: it makes me think of a movie that the twins

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Speaker 1: watch over and over and over. Actually their favorite Home Alone,

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Speaker 1: its Home Alone three and they are spies and one

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Speaker 1: gets electrokeyed from you know, a plug in, and his

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Speaker 1: hair sticks straight out. That's what he's talking about. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was just in the movies, but apparently it's

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Speaker 1: not just in the movies. I didn't know that was real.

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Speaker 1: Joining me, Doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical Examiner for

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Speaker 1: the entire state of Georgia. Why would her hair be

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Speaker 1: sticking straight out like she had been shocked? Well, much

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Speaker 1: of it at that point had probably been was burned,

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Speaker 1: was burned away, you know, was burning from the ends

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Speaker 1: towards ends of the hairs, towards the scalp and the

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Speaker 1: the gases from the burning hair. I mean, it causes

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Speaker 1: every to separate. But really what I think the man

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Speaker 1: was describing was the effect of the hair burning away

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Speaker 1: from her scalp. What do you mean, Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's on fire, it's being considerated, and what

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Speaker 1: he's really seeing is what's left that still hasn't, you know,

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Speaker 1: completely become incinerated up next to the scalp. So that's

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Speaker 1: the flames or the heat will tend to separate the

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Speaker 1: hairs as well, but it's not the It's sort of

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Speaker 1: similar to the way you might conceive of hair standing

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Speaker 1: up in the electrical sort of thing, electrical shock that

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Speaker 1: you're you're describing or the people's think of. But at

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Speaker 1: the point where this man saw her, I would say,

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Speaker 1: much of her hair had already been inciderated and what

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Speaker 1: was left was in the process of burning but just

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Speaker 1: sticking out. Yeah. I tried a lot of arsons, which

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Speaker 1: is a real specialty Darryl Cohen, because with arsons, it's

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Speaker 1: a whole other mindset. You have to first prove is

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Speaker 1: a crime even occurred, because fires can be accidental for

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Speaker 1: any host of reasons. So you really have to work

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Speaker 1: on an arsen to show that there was even a crime.

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Speaker 1: But then you have to prove who, what, where, why

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Speaker 1: when to prove an arson case. But in all the

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Speaker 1: arsons I have ever handled, Daryl, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you had an arson case because there are a few

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Speaker 1: and far between. Actually, I've never had a victim die

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Speaker 1: of burning. They typically die a smoke inhalation before they

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Speaker 1: can be burned to death. Darryl Cohen Well, dans less.

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Speaker 1: The arson was instant and aimed directly at the person

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Speaker 1: that they're trying to kill, throwing burning gasoline at a person,

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Speaker 1: dousing a person with gasoline kerosene, and then lighting it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree with you. Actually, you just reminded

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Speaker 1: me of something, Darryl. I did have a case where

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Speaker 1: the victims die of burning, and they were two babies

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Speaker 1: in their layette, and there was a gang warfare between

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Speaker 1: the sect queens, the girlfriends of the gangs, and one

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Speaker 1: of the gang members too I guess up whole the

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Speaker 1: honor of his girlfriend throws Zamolotov cocktail into the home

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Speaker 1: of another gang member and it ended up burning two

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Speaker 1: sleeping babies. A lot. Yes, I have had one. I

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Speaker 1: just remembered that one. Have you ever had a case,

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Speaker 1: Darryl where the victim was burned alive? No, I have not.

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Speaker 1: The only case I had was when a victim was

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Speaker 1: shot and then burned and we never knew if he

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Speaker 1: was burned first for shot first. It was almost instantaneous

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. We pull it up he

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Speaker 1: Jessica was laid right here, and I remember the heat

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Speaker 1: coming off of the true We started rendering medical aide

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Speaker 1: for Jessica and remember looking down and she was laid

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Speaker 1: on her side and they had this old army blanket covering.

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Speaker 1: I don't think she had on was a pair of panties.

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Speaker 1: You've seen our land on that ground, a piece of

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Speaker 1: skin any time she breathed, go in and out or

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Speaker 1: noga and damn, thank you, okay. And that takes a lot.

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Speaker 1: Listen to what this volunteer fire person is saying. He

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Speaker 1: arrives at the scene with the volunteer fire department. He

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Speaker 1: sees by this time, Jessica is lying on the ground

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Speaker 1: covered in the blanket you heard about. She only had

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Speaker 1: on her underwear. I'm learning something right there. Why is

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Speaker 1: she still out an underwear where the rest of her

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Speaker 1: clothes where they burned off or had they already been

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Speaker 1: removed from her body before she caught fire. Her skin

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Speaker 1: looked blackened like charcoal. To doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief

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Speaker 1: Medical Examiner for the State of Georgia, Doctor Sperry, is

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Speaker 1: it true that burn victims feel cold? Yes, they do

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Speaker 1: because with extensive burning like this, the normal insulation that

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Speaker 1: the skin provides is lost, the hour layer of the

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Speaker 1: skins skin is lost, and the person because of the

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Speaker 1: horrendous nature of the burn, physiologically, they go into shock.

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Speaker 1: So blood is really pooling in the center of the

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Speaker 1: body around the hearts, especially as the organs, you know,

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Speaker 1: to keep us, that keep us alive. But the result

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Speaker 1: is that the extremities that the hands, the feed, the legs,

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Speaker 1: the arms will feel cold to the touch because the

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Speaker 1: blood flow is not has been diverted really to the

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Speaker 1: center of the body. That's that's what happens with someone

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Speaker 1: in shock. I'm just thinking about what this young girl,

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Speaker 1: this nineteen year old cheerleader, lived through burning alive. Listen

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Speaker 1: to more of the volunteer fireperson barnsts. We read in

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Speaker 1: some places maybe they're like somebody who's talk hold on.

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Speaker 1: She wasn't complaining about pain or yewver. She was shaking.

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Speaker 1: Somebody asked what she called her something, and I seemed

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Speaker 1: like she nodded her head, you know, she wouldn't really

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Speaker 1: talk to And then firefighter Brandy Davis was kind of

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Speaker 1: back over toward her feet and he said, well, hon,

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Speaker 1: wh who've done this to you? Kind of just looked up,

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Speaker 1: turned her head just a little bit and playing day.

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Speaker 1: He said, Eric did this. She can't called her last name,

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Speaker 1: you know, she just she said Eric did this. We

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Speaker 1: was all kind of stunned. I thought, whoever did this

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Speaker 1: and may still be out there seeing her the way

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Speaker 1: she was and then still alive. I don't wish this

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Speaker 1: on my worst end. And here is the Cortland County

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Speaker 1: Fire Chief, Cole Kelly the tone drop, and it was

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Speaker 1: for vehicle fire and what was expecting to be just

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Speaker 1: any normal vehicle fire. Get it extinguished and be back home,

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Speaker 1: you know, and we may sing. We saw the vehicles

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Speaker 1: fully involved, and we knows the young female. And when

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Speaker 1: we had something bigger on our hands, my guys they

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Speaker 1: started extinguishing fire, trying to preserve any evidence that might

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Speaker 1: have been left behind. And I started attending to the victim,

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Speaker 1: and she did speak with me, which I can't close

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Speaker 1: in that information at this time, but you know, she

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Speaker 1: she did talk with me. It's a small town. Everybody

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Speaker 1: knows everybody in the small town. But I know the

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Speaker 1: family real well, and I just I hate it happen,

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Speaker 1: you know. I steel sorry for family, and I feel

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Speaker 1: I know the family to listen to it. Being Chambers,

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Speaker 1: Jessica's dad tells me, do you remember the moment when

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Speaker 1: you heard your daughter was a fire victim? Oh? Yes, ma'am. Real,

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Speaker 1: Oh man, it's just like it was yesterday, you know

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Speaker 1: it was. I just didn't want to believe it at

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Speaker 1: first when they called me, you know, I thought, maybe

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Speaker 1: you know, she was just burnt, just a little bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, Uh didn't, uh right, didn't. I couldn't imagine

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Speaker 1: the scale it was, you know. And I asked Barry,

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Speaker 1: was she okay? And you know, and he got real

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Speaker 1: solid and uh he said, now, man, she she's not.

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Speaker 1: And he asked, when my whole world fail? You know,

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Speaker 1: where were you, mister Chambers when you learned I would

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Speaker 1: just come home from Memphis. If we had been Christmas

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Speaker 1: shopping or whatever that day, we hadn't been home maybe

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Speaker 1: ten minutes more, not when he called and what did

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Speaker 1: you do? Ah? He told me he wouldn't tell me

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Speaker 1: he's actually where it was at. Do you want me

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Speaker 1: to stay there at the house and to share in him?

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Speaker 1: Come to my house? And about five minutes they was

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Speaker 1: at the house and he told me, you know how

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Speaker 1: bad she was burnt? And they were flying er to Memphis.

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Speaker 1: He were hearing Jessica's dad talking to me. To doctor Angela,

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Speaker 1: Arnold renounced psychiatrists joining us today, Doctor Arnold, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for being with us. You know, I've dealt

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Speaker 1: with so many murder of victims, tangential victims of murder,

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Speaker 1: and uniformly they remember and it's a defining moment in

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Speaker 1: their life when they learned their loved one has been

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Speaker 1: murdered or is dead. They never forget it, Doctor Angela,

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Speaker 1: How could you forget it? It's it's so shocking. This

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Speaker 1: is not something that anyone goes through in their regular life.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure they have some sort of post traumatic

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Speaker 1: stress disorder that arises from us, wouldn't you think, Nancy, Well,

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Speaker 1: doctor Angela, I remember when my dad passed away and

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Speaker 1: when my fiance was murdered a lot of things are

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Speaker 1: a blur I have when I've been asked questions about

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Speaker 1: certain aspects. I don't have an answer. But how can

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Speaker 1: you blur or block out other things? But that moment

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Speaker 1: is something you always remember, that's just feared in your well.

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Speaker 1: Like I said to Nancy, it's not something that's it's

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Speaker 1: not something that typically people go through. And I think,

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Speaker 1: I think it just ignites in our brains something and

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Speaker 1: it does cause a post traumatic stress reaction because it

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Speaker 1: is so unlike likely, it's not a normal thing to experience.

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Speaker 1: I can't even who could experience their fiance being murdered.

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Speaker 1: I imagine to this day, you remember how you feel

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Speaker 1: about that? Don't you how you feel? I'm feeling it

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Speaker 1: inside right now even talking about it. I hate even

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Speaker 1: talking about it. Take a listen to more of what

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Speaker 1: Jessica's dad tells me. When we're standing out in the yard,

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Speaker 1: the helicopter come over to pick her up, and so

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Speaker 1: I took off to Memphis. We'd beat the helicopter to Memphis,

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Speaker 1: which is only about fifty something miles from my house.

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Speaker 1: Beat we beat the helicopter there, you know. And let

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Speaker 1: me ask you something I just went through that flying

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Speaker 1: driving as fast as I could to get to my

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Speaker 1: father before he passed away. What do you remember about

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Speaker 1: that drive to try to get to your daughter. It

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Speaker 1: was just, you know, I was just steady three in

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Speaker 1: the yard. It should be okay, you know, and what

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Speaker 1: you know, just begging her, you know, just to not

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Speaker 1: take her, you know, because I just I just lost

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Speaker 1: my son a year before she got killed, you know,

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Speaker 1: dot car and just you know, my whole world shut down.

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Speaker 1: You know, guys, we are talking about the murder by

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Speaker 1: fire of a teen girl cheerleader. He just goes to

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Speaker 1: adult taco at Taco Belle for a snack, and next

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Speaker 1: thing you know, she is burned alive. Listen to what

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Speaker 1: her father, Ben tells me. I mean, just hearing you talk.

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Speaker 1: I remember that that crazy attempt to get there before

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Speaker 1: he passed away. When you got there, when you got

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Speaker 1: to the hospital, what happened. Well, when I got to

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Speaker 1: the hospital, of I didn't even know park my vehicle.

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Speaker 1: You got to, you know, pay to get in the park.

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Speaker 1: I just parked in the middle of the street. He

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Speaker 1: took off running in the hospital or whatever. And of

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Speaker 1: course when I got in there and didn't nobody know

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Speaker 1: nothing about it or anything. You got to get a badge.

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Speaker 1: And then finally I asked, I said, just where's the

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Speaker 1: Burn Center or whatever? Where it's the part of the

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Speaker 1: Burn Center, And you know, they said, well as upstairs

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Speaker 1: down the hallway. And I just took off running, you know.

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Speaker 1: And a matter of fact, I went in places I

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Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to be, you know, uh, trying to find her.

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Speaker 1: And they didn't even know nothing about it. And of

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Speaker 1: course then they started calling around and they said, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, the helicopters landing right now, you know,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and we had to wait, wait, wait, and

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Speaker 1: I wait on the doctors, and it seemed like it

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Speaker 1: was an eternity, you know. And I did where the doctor.

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Speaker 1: The doctor to come out good. He couldn't do nothing

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Speaker 1: for you know, he was too bad. Time Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace to Michael Clark wi A t CBS forty two, Birmingham.

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Speaker 1: Where did the incident take place? As it relates to

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Speaker 1: the hospital. She had to be airlifted to a Memphis hospital.

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Speaker 1: The incident actually took place, like Ben said, about fifty

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Speaker 1: miles south of the city of Memphis, in a small

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Speaker 1: town of Courtland, and it required quite a transport to

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Speaker 1: get her to Memphis to find a place for the

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Speaker 1: helicopter to land. The light flight her up there, so

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Speaker 1: for the Chambers family to beat the helicopter, there was

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of distance for both of those groups

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Speaker 1: to have to travel to get to the hospital. What

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Speaker 1: happened to Jessica, now, that's the question. Listen to her

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Speaker 1: dad with the doctor totals in Memphis or whatever that

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Speaker 1: you know they had squared stuff in her mouth. That's

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Speaker 1: because you weren't so bad and so far deep down.

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Speaker 1: District Attorney John Champion has confirmed that some kind of

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Speaker 1: flammable liquid was used in the fiery killing of Jessica Chambers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's bad. It's just no way around it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've been doing this twenty one years now,

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Speaker 1: and as far as the manner of death is certainly

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Speaker 1: one of the worst I've ever dealt with. Nobody has

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Speaker 1: been arrested. Investigators have interviewed many people. The investigation is

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Speaker 1: complicated because the sight of the murder is on a

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Speaker 1: desolate road. Investigators may have caught a break. Jessica was

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Speaker 1: captured on this camera at a gas station late Saturday.

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Speaker 1: They also have phone evidence. I don't know they I

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Speaker 1: know they went and got all our records and everything.

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Speaker 1: You know. They won't tell me really nothing right now,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I know they they got some good

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Speaker 1: leagues and everything else. All I know. I know they're

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Speaker 1: working hard. Ben Chambers says that he's getting calls of

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Speaker 1: support from all around the country. Like Saturday night, they

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Speaker 1: all go light a candle from my door. You're hearing

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Speaker 1: Fox Knees reporter speaking too, our friend Ben Chambers, Jessica's dad.

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Speaker 1: So we're learning based on what the dad believes, what

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Speaker 1: he's told at the hospital. Someone actually squirts a flammable

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Speaker 1: accelerant down her mouth. I want to go now to

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Speaker 1: our guest joining us. A reporter with w I at

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Speaker 1: CBS forty two Birmingham, Michael Clark. Michael tell me about

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Speaker 1: the site of the murder that Ben's talking about, that

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Speaker 1: it is so desolate. I understand the site. She was

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Speaker 1: the first started in her car. The site itself is

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Speaker 1: not very far from Jessica Chambers Halt. It literally is

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Speaker 1: just a couple of miles down the road you turn

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Speaker 1: off of the main highway there in the small town

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Speaker 1: of Courtland, and it's a very small, secluded neighborhood to

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Speaker 1: go over some train tracks and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you're just in the middle of this tree farm and

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Speaker 1: there's a gate that leads to private property where the

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Speaker 1: tree farm is beyond that gate, and right in that

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Speaker 1: location is where first responders found Jessica's car on fire

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Speaker 1: and her struggling to stay alive. Now, tell me how

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Speaker 1: were authorities alerted to the fire if it was in

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Speaker 1: such a remote area a tree farm, how was it spotted?

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Speaker 1: It was reported that a neighbor in that area. Like

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Speaker 1: I said, it was a very small neighborhood, so kind

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Speaker 1: of one of those situations where you know, everybody's looking

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Speaker 1: out for each other, and uh, you know, when anything

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Speaker 1: the myths, you know, they are concerned. Kind of a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood watch, if you will. And someone called this in

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Speaker 1: to the sheriff's office, and from my reporting, it was

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Speaker 1: my understanding that the reporting party actually knew an employee

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Speaker 1: at the sheriff's office and called that employee directly when

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Speaker 1: they saw a fire. When they saw a fire. Yes, Now,

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Speaker 1: is it true that a driver or someone along the

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Speaker 1: road saw Jessica walking on fire. It was reported from

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Speaker 1: the first responders that they came across Jessica walking on fire.

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Speaker 1: I believe that the firefighter, the chief that you heard

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Speaker 1: from earlier in your broadcast, did come across Jessica walking

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Speaker 1: on fire along that secluded road. So how can that be?

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Speaker 1: To doctor Chris Sperry, former chief medical Examiner for the

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Speaker 1: entire state utter Sperry, she was burned to that extent,

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Speaker 1: how could she be up walking around? Well, actually, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty standard in people who are severely burned would get

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Speaker 1: able to get out of the location where the fire is.

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Speaker 1: I've seen that myself. Actually, I was a doctor in

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Speaker 1: the Indian Health Service in the late seventies and we

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Speaker 1: actually had a case where a man poured gasoline over himself,

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Speaker 1: set himself on fire, rolled around to his house and

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Speaker 1: called for the ambulance and when he got to the hospital,

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Speaker 1: the only thing that wasn't the third degree bird were

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Speaker 1: the bottoms of his feet. So as long as they're

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Speaker 1: able to get away from the source of the fire

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Speaker 1: and also not inhale superheated burning gases, which will you know,

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Speaker 1: that will incapacitate someone very rapidly, But otherwise they could

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Speaker 1: walk quite always on their own until shock develops. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, also they will start to stiffen up, you know,

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Speaker 1: the skin, the burnt skin will start to get very

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Speaker 1: stiff within about thirty minutes or so. But it's really

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Speaker 1: remarkable that this can happen. Yeah, since your organs are

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Speaker 1: still working, like your heart, your stomach, your lever, all

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Speaker 1: your internal organs, your brain still working. Why is it

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Speaker 1: that when your skin as burning sheet was burned over

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Speaker 1: ninety percent of her body. Why do you die, doctor Sperry.

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Speaker 1: You die from the fact that your skin protects your

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Speaker 1: in the inerts protects your body from the outside world.

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Speaker 1: And when the skin is the outer layers of the

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Speaker 1: skin are burned like this, um, you actually start to

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Speaker 1: lose fluid dramatically through the burned skin. The insulating character

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Speaker 1: of the skin that keeps our body temperature normal, that

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Speaker 1: is lost. And then finally it is it's just a

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Speaker 1: severe traumatic injury to the involves eventually the whole entire body,

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Speaker 1: and most patients like this, if they're a burden center

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Speaker 1: and kept alive long enough, infection is astounding. You know,

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Speaker 1: that usually is what will cause the death because the

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Speaker 1: skin keeps the bugs away. From our inside body, and

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Speaker 1: once the skin is damaged like this, bacteria will take

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Speaker 1: advantage very rapidly. What happened to a teen girl, Jessica Chambers?

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Speaker 1: She heads out just to go to Taco bell and

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Speaker 1: ends up burned over ninety two percent of her body,

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Speaker 1: wearing nothing but her underwear, walking along the side of

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Speaker 1: the road trying to get help. You heard her father,

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Speaker 1: A Ben Chambers tell me, and looks that someone had

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Speaker 1: squirted acceller down her mouth. When first responders get there,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like she's saying Eric, but with the inside

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Speaker 1: of her mouth totally burnt black. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: the inside of her mouth and throat. Who knows what

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Speaker 1: she's really saying. But then phone records emerge joining me

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Speaker 1: right now. Steve Lampley, detective and author of Outside Your Door,

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Speaker 1: explain to me how phones are triangulated. Well, I see

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Speaker 1: what happens is you have different cell towers throughout the country.

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Speaker 1: There's an immense system of cell phone towers, and when

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Speaker 1: a signal is sent from a cell phone, it teems

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Speaker 1: off a triangulation of the closest three towers, so that

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Speaker 1: gives them you usually a location within three I think

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Speaker 1: three feet Actually you go yard of where that cellphone

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Speaker 1: peined front. So not only do police use triangulation maths

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Speaker 1: to pinpoint where you are where you've been in the

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Speaker 1: last however many days or hours or minutes. They want

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Speaker 1: to look back back timing from your death location. They

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Speaker 1: can also see who's calling you, who you are texting,

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Speaker 1: and vice versa. Yes, and you know, I guess criminals

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Speaker 1: just don't get it crime stories with Nancy Grace. Cell

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Speaker 1: phone records don't lie, and you can physically get rid

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Speaker 1: of your cell phone, but those records live in the

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Speaker 1: cloud forever. Take a listen to the Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: intelligence analyst Paul Roulette. That brings us back to one

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Speaker 1: of the first people that was talked to four days

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Speaker 1: after her death. Yes, and one of the last people

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Speaker 1: she was in contact with. Yes, and who was that?

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Speaker 1: It was Quentin Tells. And you earlier you had looked

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Speaker 1: at some tolls from Quentin Tells's phone. Had have you

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Speaker 1: looked at a dog that was retrieved from Quinton tellsas

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Speaker 1: fold I did. We new originally analyzed Quentin tell Us.

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Speaker 1: Did you have that information? I didn't, And so you know,

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00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: again we had taken that piece of puzzle, moved it

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Speaker 1: toward the edge of the table and moved on to

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00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: other things. But between the dates he was interviewed and

428
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: that October twenty fifteen meeting, at some point in there,

429
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: we had received that location data back. So you when

430
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: you started going through back through all the original contacts, Yes,

431
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: did you have another piece of informational? Quinton tells, I did.

432
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: I had his location data on his phone. And did

433
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: you analyze the location Datald Quentin tellsas fold, I did,

434
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: And this leads you to contact investigators it did you know?

435
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if you heard it the trial. We

436
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: always refer this back to the awe moment in the case,

437
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: but it did. And when I saw what I saw

438
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: on his location data, it led me to and I

439
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: think I was doing that at a very late at night.

440
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: I contacted the five members of the team and told

441
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: you all that I needed immediately in my office the

442
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: next morning. Can you imagine that moment when this DJ

443
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: Department of Justice intelligence analyst Paul Roulette is just digging

444
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: through what they call a dump, a data dump. It's

445
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: what it is like, pages and pages and pages more

446
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: than you'd ever need about cell phone usage and patterns

447
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: and locations, and it's in the middle of the night

448
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: and he gets what he calls an AHA moment and

449
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: calls the team says, you'd be here in the morning.

450
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: I got something straight out to our friends joining us.

451
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: Michael Clark wi a t CBS forty two. Who is

452
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: Quentin tell Us and what was the AHA moment? Well,

453
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: Quentin tell Us is a local from the Courtland community

454
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: where Jessica grew up and spent her time. They were friends,

455
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: they hung out several times together, they knew each other,

456
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,239
Speaker 1: and the AHA moments that you speak of seems to

457
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: be the time that they have put the pieces of

458
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: the puzzle together with that data dump that you just

459
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: reference to know that they did have contact very close

460
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: to the time that she was found burned them to

461
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: know that there certainly was contact between those two individuals,

462
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: very very close to the time that this crime was committed.

463
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: And true, it's leading him right up to the time

464
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: of the murder and a horrible, horrible death by burning.

465
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: But that's not enough, So you got to have more

466
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: than that. But what about the content of the text messages.

467
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that he repeatedly was pestering her for sex,

468
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: and she at the time was saying no, no, no no.

469
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: Does that mean anything to you, Daryl Cohen, means a

470
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: lot to be It means that he's spurned. It means

471
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: that he is mad. It means don't get mad, get even,

472
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: and when his get even, what happened nothing good? This

473
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: it means a lot to be, Nancy. It tells me

474
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: there's a motive, and there's this, and then there is

475
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: what he did. Michael Clarke Wi A T CBS forty two, Birmingham.

476
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: There are women all over that would probably love to

477
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: date Quinton tell us. Apparently he's very charismatic. But the

478
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: fact that he's pestering her for sex, she's saying no, no, no,

479
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: They're going back and forth, and then she has found

480
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: burned alive, wearing nothing but her underwear, and he is

481
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: texting her up until the point of the fire. That

482
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: suggests to me, with a lot of circumstantial evidence, that

483
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: he attacked her for sex and ends up killing her

484
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: by fire. And that certainly is what the theory and

485
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: the thought behind that is that he has been chasing

486
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: her for such a long period of time and had

487
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: desire for her and the spurning of advances culminated with

488
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: the opportunity that presented itself up on that horrible night

489
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: and in the tragic outcome that we're talking about here today.

490
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: But it has been clear that from the text messages

491
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: and the eventually came out in court, that he did

492
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: pursue Jessica Chambers unsuccessfully for quite some time. I don't

493
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: get it, doctor Angela Arnold, You're the shrink. I'm just

494
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: a JD. You're the MD. With all the people out there,

495
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: why do you have to focus on the one person

496
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: that says no, I don't want you, No, go away,

497
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: don't touch me. Why? Why does it have to be

498
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: that one? I always wondering this about I think I

499
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: wondered about men, but I guess it applies to women too.

500
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: When you have a happy home, why do you want

501
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: somebody else? Why? I think that that's very hard to understand,

502
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: for anybody to understand. I deal with that a lot

503
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: in my practice, and I deal with it an awful lot.

504
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: And you can't, you can't even talk sense into people.

505
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: I'd certainly like to know more about this this guy

506
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: and their relationship, But if it's you know, some people

507
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: also are very excited by the actual chase, aren't they,

508
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: And that sounds like it may have crossed a line. Oh,

509
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: doctor Angela, I don't know what I was in. I

510
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: don't know what I was thinking you were going to

511
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: say to me, But you're right, when somebody gets that

512
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: in their head, you can't talk them out of it.

513
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: Take a listen to ATF agent Scott Meadows. Initially his

514
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: story at the beginning of November two was what he

515
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: told the agents previously when writing around Big Mike saw

516
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: Jessica through some money, So that part massed that November

517
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: second testimony matched what he had previously told law enforcement,

518
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: So he himself confirmed what the agents had written in

519
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: their reports. Accurate. Yes, they're very accurate. And in this

520
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: particular case, do you believe that Quinton was being deceptive purposely?

521
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: I do, indeed, yes, sir, and end. Would Quinton change

522
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: the deception that he was putting on y'all in the

523
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: videos one confronted with the evidence and once you confronted

524
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: him with the evidence, did he agree with what you

525
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: confronted him with? His story changed to match what he

526
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: was just shown. And through the years of dealing with interviews,

527
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: do people have a reason to lie, are being deceptive?

528
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: They do? And what would would that reason be? So

529
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: tell Us a story changes repeatedly, but believe it or not,

530
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: after two jury trials, it ends in a mistrial. To

531
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: Michael Clark wi at CBS, where does the case stand now? Well,

532
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: the district attorney for that area, John Champion, has not

533
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: publicly released plans to try mister tell Us a third time.

534
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: Mister tell Us is also a suspect in an entirely

535
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: different case out of a different state that resulted in

536
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: the murder murder in New Orleans of a young exchange student,

537
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: a female correct that's correct, found with found in disturbing

538
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: conditions in an apartment, and mister Tellis was found guilty

539
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the page, was found guilty of

540
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: using that deceased woman's credit card at an area store.

541
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: Michael Clark wi at CBS forty two. That's not the

542
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: answer I wanted, but that's the answer I got, and

543
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: that's the truth. The murder of Jessica Chamber still goes unavenged.

544
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: We wait as justice God willing. Unfoalds Nancy Grace Crime

545
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: Story signing off, Goodbye friend,