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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Scott Bestell fielden Stream's longtime

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Speaker 2: whitetail columnist, to discuss tactic and mindset shifts that can

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Speaker 2: help you make the very most of these final weeks

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Speaker 2: of the hunting season. All right, welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light

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Speaker 2: and their Camel for Conservation initiative. Today we are going

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Speaker 2: to discuss how to save your hunting season, how to

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Speaker 2: make the most of these final weeks of the year,

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Speaker 2: especially if your hunting season has not been going the

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Speaker 2: way you wanted to. If you have been struggling to

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Speaker 2: fill a tag, or kill mature buck, or kill that

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Speaker 2: one target buck, or if you have been burnout, stressed out,

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Speaker 2: frustrated with the season. You are who we're talking to

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Speaker 2: here today, because I guess I am you. I am

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Speaker 2: that person. I have had a hunting season that has

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Speaker 2: frustrated me, befuddled me, confused me, stressed me out. And

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Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting timing because a new film of

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Speaker 2: mine came out just a week or two ago on

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Speaker 2: the Mediator YouTube channel, and the kind of underlying theme

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Speaker 2: of that episode was this epiphany that I had a

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Speaker 2: couple of years back that if you're a longtime listener

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Speaker 2: of the podcast, you've heard me talk about but a

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Speaker 2: few years ago. This was after the twenty twenty one season.

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Speaker 2: I kind of realized that I had been getting burned

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Speaker 2: out on this stuff. I was going too hard, I

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Speaker 2: was putting too much pressure on myself. I was doing

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Speaker 2: a bunch of things that were kind of taking the

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Speaker 2: fun out of hunting because I was so obsessed with

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Speaker 2: killing a mature buck or so obsessed with quote unquote success.

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Speaker 2: And I tried to kind of right the ship after that,

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Speaker 2: and in many ways I have. In many ways I've

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Speaker 2: learned from that, I've gotten better at certain things. But

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Speaker 2: on the flip side, I also have, you know, at

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Speaker 2: times fallen back into those old ruts.

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 2: Experienced some of those same feelings. I think it's probably

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Speaker 2: a combination of just who I am personally and also

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Speaker 2: just the fact that, you know, chasing mature bucks all

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Speaker 2: over the country and trying to do it consistently successfully

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Speaker 2: is just inherently a thing that's going to be stressful

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Speaker 2: and super challenging. And layer on top of the fact

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Speaker 2: that I I'm very goal oriented, hard driving, and I

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Speaker 2: guess tough on myself. All those things can be recipes

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Speaker 2: for some adversity, recipes for you know, not always stuff

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Speaker 2: being rainbows and butterflies. But I have also realized that,

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Speaker 2: and this is something I realized a few years ago

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Speaker 2: and continue to remind myself of, is the fact that

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Speaker 2: it is a shame to ever let hunting bring you down.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: It's supposed to be a thing that's fun, that is enriching,

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Speaker 2: that's invigorating, that fills your cup. Shouldn't be draining your cup.

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Speaker 2: And what I've gotten better at doing is catching myself

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Speaker 2: in those moments when I'm feeling that way, and hopefully

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Speaker 2: having enough self awareness to step out of it and

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Speaker 2: snap myself too and say, hey, you got to start

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Speaker 2: making some different decisions, or hey, you got to chill out.

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Speaker 2: This stuff doesn't matter that much. That's been my big

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Speaker 2: thing over the last five years is working through this

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Speaker 2: because I love deer hunting, but sometimes I'm so obsessed

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Speaker 2: with hunting deer that I lose that and that's a mistake.

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Speaker 2: And that's what today's episode is all about. It's about

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Speaker 2: how we can have success as deer hunters but also

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Speaker 2: don't lose the fun and the joy in them. My

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Speaker 2: guess today is someone who's dealt with this himself, mister

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Speaker 2: Scott Bestel. He has been a long time columnist for

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Speaker 2: Field and Stream magazine, a very experienced and as he

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Speaker 2: put it, proficient whitetail deer hunter, and someone who can

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Speaker 2: share with us both tactical ideas, so some specific tactics

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Speaker 2: and hunting strategies that can help us here to make

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Speaker 2: the most of these final weeks of the hunting season.

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Speaker 2: So we do discuss some late season ideas to help

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Speaker 2: you fill a tag here in these last weeks or

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Speaker 2: month of the year. But then also we spend time discussing,

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Speaker 2: you know, how to get back to the fun of it.

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Speaker 2: How to make sure that we end this hunting season

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Speaker 2: on a high note, not stressed out because we didn't

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Speaker 2: kill enough deer or the biggest deer or the mature

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Speaker 2: buck we're after. How to remember to focus on the

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Speaker 2: important stuff and how to release some of that pressure,

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Speaker 2: release some of that stress, and get back to the

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Speaker 2: good stuff, because it'd be a real shame to end

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Speaker 2: the year upset it yourself or bummed out or frustrated

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Speaker 2: because it wasn't as good as somebody else's season that

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Speaker 2: you saw on instagramm or it didn't kill as many

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Speaker 2: bucks as you saw some guy on their YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: That kind of thing just is like a I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it's like siphoning the energy and the fun and the

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Speaker 2: good vibes out of you as a hunter.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you that from experience.

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Speaker 2: I have had a number of moments this year where

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Speaker 2: looking back at them, I'm bummed out that I let

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Speaker 2: myself get to that point because I know better and

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Speaker 2: I've learned a lot about myself over recent years, and

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Speaker 2: it is it's easy to slip down that slope. I

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Speaker 2: was in Kentucky this year on a public land hunt

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Speaker 2: that was, you know, gonna be challenging. I knew it

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Speaker 2: was going to be really challenging from the get go,

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Speaker 2: and spent a couple of days hunting national forests with

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Speaker 2: low deer densities. It was a two plus mile hike

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Speaker 2: into this area, then we sat all day long, and

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Speaker 2: then a two plus mile hike out. We did this

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Speaker 2: for several days in a row. We were wore out

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Speaker 2: from that. On day three or four, I moved to

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Speaker 2: a different area of public land and I was going

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Speaker 2: to scout my way into this spot and try to

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Speaker 2: You know, at first, I'd never seen this place ever,

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Speaker 2: brand new to this area. I was going to slip

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Speaker 2: in at first light and hopefully be able to navigate

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Speaker 2: this dry creek bed and set up on an area

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Speaker 2: that looked good on the map. Long story short, as

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Speaker 2: I slipped in along this creek bed, I spooked deer

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Speaker 2: after deer after deer. There was way more deer in

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Speaker 2: this area than I realized, which is good. The bad

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Speaker 2: news is that they were all on this creek and

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Speaker 2: even though I was slipping very quietly in a great

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Speaker 2: access route way, it just seemed like it just seemed

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Speaker 2: like it was a disaster. Kept on educating deer, and

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Speaker 2: when I got to the area I wanted to hunt,

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Speaker 2: the wind was not doing what it was supposed to do.

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Speaker 3: I was there was big.

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Speaker 2: Kind of hills and stuff in the area, and the

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Speaker 2: wind instead of the thermals getting sucked up this cliff

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Speaker 2: base that I was gonna hunt near, and the wind

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Speaker 2: kind of blowing past this betting area and then up

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Speaker 2: the cliff behind me like I thought it would. Instead

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Speaker 2: it was bouncing off of it and recycling right through

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Speaker 2: this bedding area, and so I'm stressed out about that.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm freaked out that the wind's wrong. I've educated

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Speaker 2: all this deer as I've walked in there, so I finally,

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Speaker 2: you know, sit there and I'm thinking and trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out what to do and can't figure out anything

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Speaker 2: that I think is gonna work. And it's quiet now,

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Speaker 2: so every step I take is loud and noisy, and

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Speaker 2: I decide, all right, I need to this isn't gonna work.

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Speaker 2: I need to, you know, find something that actually will work.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna keep slipping down this creek, and so

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Speaker 2: I go to the next spot on the map that

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Speaker 2: looks good, and again the wind's not doing the right thing.

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Speaker 3: So now we get to a river, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think about how to handle this situation.

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Speaker 2: So I start slipping down on this river because there's

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Speaker 2: another zone on the map that looks like it should

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Speaker 2: be good, and I bet you she's far enough away

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Speaker 2: from that cliff face and the wind will be consistent, and.

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Speaker 3: YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 2: Long story short, I spend half the day scouting this property.

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Speaker 2: The wind is a mess. Everywhere I go, numerous deer

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Speaker 2: see me or hear me or wind me. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of a disaster. And I just remember being so stressed out,

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Speaker 2: so upset about things not going right and not knowing

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Speaker 2: the right choice to make, and things all kind of

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Speaker 2: just being a mess. I remember turning to my buddy

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Speaker 2: Charlie was filming, and I just just said, I hate

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Speaker 2: this so much, Like in that moment, I hated it.

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Speaker 2: I hate this so much, is what I said. And

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Speaker 2: then looking back on that a few days later, it's

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Speaker 2: just like, what a shame I keep saying that, But

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Speaker 2: what a shame that I'm out there hunting in what

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Speaker 2: was a beautiful place with a bunch of deer and

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Speaker 2: I hated it. I don't want that to be the case.

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Speaker 2: And I know I've got other friends, and there's other

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Speaker 2: people listening who have probably been in some kind of

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Speaker 2: situation like that, who have felt that way before because

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Speaker 2: of the pressure they put on themselves or because of

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Speaker 2: how they compare themselves to others, or because of whatever

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Speaker 2: it is. We've lumped so much onto this hunting thing

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Speaker 2: that at times, if we're not careful, we're too obsessed

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Speaker 2: with a specific goal or a specific deer, or what

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Speaker 2: other people think about what we do or how we

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Speaker 2: do it, or quote unquote success.

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Speaker 3: Whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: There's all these different ways to do it, but there's

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Speaker 2: many ways to poke holes in this boat. That is

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Speaker 2: our experience as hunters. And today, with my conversation here

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Speaker 2: with Scott, I would love to throw everyone a lifeline.

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Speaker 2: Let to keep you afloat. Let's learn from some of

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Speaker 2: my mistakes, Let's learn from maybe some of our own mistakes,

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Speaker 2: and make the most of these final weeks of the season,

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Speaker 2: let's say, the hunting season. Scott's got ideas for how

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Speaker 2: to do that from a hunting perspective and from a

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Speaker 2: mindset perspective. Making sure we're having fun, making sure we're

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Speaker 2: making the most of this hunting season, and just sucking

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Speaker 2: every last ounce out of it in a positive, super

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Speaker 2: fun way. That's the plan for today's conversation. I think

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Speaker 2: we should not be there on the bush anymore. Let's

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Speaker 2: get right to it. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

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Speaker 3: Here we go.

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Speaker 2: All right here with me on the line is Scott

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Speaker 2: Bestel Scott, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 4: Nice to see you, Mark. I appreciate you having me on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right back at you. I greatly appreciate it. And

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Speaker 2: last time we had you in the show, which is

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Speaker 2: a while back now, I mentioned this, but I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna say it again. I'm gonna say it every time

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Speaker 2: you're on the show. You were the very first person

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Speaker 2: within the hunting industry, within this community we're in that

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Speaker 2: ever showed a semblance of support to me way back

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight. Really, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you remember this, but that's long.

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Speaker 4: Remember I remember our first contact and I'm like, this

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Speaker 4: is a nice, young, eager guy. I hope he makes it.

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Speaker 4: And here you are.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you know.

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Speaker 2: It's it's only been because of the help and support

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Speaker 2: of a lot of folks like you. So so I

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Speaker 2: just want to again acknowledge that and thank you that

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Speaker 2: I still remember it now twenty twenty four. Now, that

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Speaker 2: was two thousand and eight, so it's been a lot

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Speaker 2: of years. And that response to that note was something

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Speaker 2: that gave me some some belief and that was that

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Speaker 2: was pretty important back then. So thank you again for that, and.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for reaching out. And I'm really honored that you

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Speaker 4: thought of thought of reaching out to me. So that's, uh,

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Speaker 4: that says a lot. I'm flattered, And.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly why I'm reaching out to you again here today,

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Speaker 2: because I think back then you were someone who had

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Speaker 2: a lot of experience and wisdom in the world of

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Speaker 2: whitetail hunting, and you still today have that, but but

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Speaker 2: probably much more so since it has been you know,

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Speaker 2: approaching two decades since that point, and and really today's theme,

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Speaker 2: the thing that brought me to you, Scott was a

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Speaker 2: little bit of angst, maybe a little bit of stress

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Speaker 2: that that I personally have been feeling this hunting season,

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Speaker 2: and that I imagine a lot of other folks have felt

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Speaker 2: at some point during the season, especially as we're edging here,

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Speaker 2: you know, towards that last third of the year, or

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Speaker 2: maybe even less than that for some people, right because

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Speaker 2: it's it's so funny. We go through you know, January, February, March,

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Speaker 2: and we're dreaming about hunting season, and then April, May, June, July,

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Speaker 2: it's getting closer it's getting closer, and we're planning and

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Speaker 2: we're plotting, and we're excited and the anticipation is high,

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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, it's here, it's going,

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Speaker 2: and then it's gone. It just always seems to go

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Speaker 2: so fast, doesn't it.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's it's just crazy. It was. It was

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Speaker 4: so funny. I remember joking to one of my hunting

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Speaker 4: buddies the season opened and we were, you know, we

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Speaker 4: were talking about it, you know, our target deer and

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Speaker 4: what are we going to do opening week and blah

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Speaker 4: blah blah. Pretty soon one of us just lasts and goes,

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Speaker 4: you know what, next week, it's going to be late season,

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Speaker 4: and here we are.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Every year I warned myself of that, and it still

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Speaker 2: sneaks up on me. It's still absolutely Yeah, it's uh,

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Speaker 2: it's wild how that happens. But but how how is

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Speaker 2: your season?

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Speaker 3: Ben Scott?

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Speaker 4: You know, I really had a fun season. I have

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Speaker 4: not put a tag on a buck yet this year,

257
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Speaker 4: but I've passed up a couple, you know that. I

258
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Speaker 4: I don't know one. I remember I rattled in I

259
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Speaker 4: was in Minnesota. I rattled in my fourth buck of

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Speaker 4: the year in Minnesota, which is I think a personal

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Speaker 4: record for me. But anyway, it was a nice, you know,

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Speaker 4: like three year old eight pointer and came right in,

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Speaker 4: stood there fifteen twenty yards. I shoot my recurve. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: this is just like a you know, like a gift.

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Speaker 4: I mean, here he is, and I don't. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I just didn't. I wasn't in the zone, and I

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Speaker 4: let them walk. I remember walking back to the truck

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Speaker 4: and I call my hunting buddy. I go, You're gonna

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Speaker 4: remind me this day when it's December fifteenth and I'm

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Speaker 4: freezing my butt off all there, and You're gonna go,

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Speaker 4: why did we not kill that deer? So anyway, but

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Speaker 4: I mean I really looked at it as a I

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Speaker 4: mean it's kind of like catch and release trout fishing.

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Speaker 4: You know, you get the victory without without having to

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Speaker 4: deal with the dead animal and all that good stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but anyway, so I've had a lot of fun, but

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Speaker 4: I've not tagged anything yet. But I'm not giving up either.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, this is actually my one of my favorite

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Speaker 4: parts of the season. I've always loved late. I can't

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Speaker 4: explain it. Well, maybe we'll talk about it more. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I like this phase of the season.

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Speaker 2: Well that's perfect because you and I are both kind

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Speaker 2: of in a similar a similar boat then, because we

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Speaker 2: still have goals and hopes for the rest of the year.

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Speaker 3: Neither one of us are.

286
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Speaker 2: Tagged out and completely done with the year yet. So

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Speaker 2: that said, I think that there's probably a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks out there right now who are feeling the same

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Speaker 2: way we are, who are feeling like the season has

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Speaker 2: just flew by, and I'm sure they came into this

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Speaker 2: with all sorts of hopes and dreams, and if there

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Speaker 2: are people who still haven't filled their tag yet who

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Speaker 2: are maybe starting to sweat it a little bit. You know,

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Speaker 2: as you and I talked about before we started recording,

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Speaker 2: you know, we kind of want to cover two sides

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Speaker 2: of this coin, one being how to deal with maybe

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Speaker 2: some of the mental.

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Speaker 3: Stress of this part of.

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Speaker 2: The year coming without having a tag filled, or maybe

300
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Speaker 2: things not going the way you wanted. But then there's

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Speaker 2: also just the practical side of things, like what can

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Speaker 2: I do now if I still don't have a deer killed,

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Speaker 2: or if I still don't have the target buck I'm

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Speaker 2: after killed, or if I don't have meat in the freezer,

305
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Speaker 2: whatever the goal is, what are some of those first

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Speaker 2: few ideas that come to mind to you if someone

307
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Speaker 2: is in this situation and they came to you saying, hey, Scott,

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Speaker 2: I'm down to the last two, three, four weeks of

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Speaker 2: the season and I haven't achieved my goal yet. What

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Speaker 2: are some of those first couple ideas you might give

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Speaker 2: someone on that front?

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, you know this isn't rockets. Science are probably

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Speaker 4: news to many people. But I started moving my cameras around.

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Speaker 4: I'm a big from like, well, soon summer goes into

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Speaker 4: early fall, I go heavy onto mock scrapes. That's where

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Speaker 4: almost all my trail cams go. And now I'm pulling

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Speaker 4: them off of mock scrapes unless they're really tight to food.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, I've I've I've pulled a lot of mock

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Speaker 4: scrape sets, put them on good food sources, and I'm

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Speaker 4: out there scouting. You know, we don't. We had just

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Speaker 4: a tremendous acorn crop last year, probably the most prolific

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Speaker 4: one I've ever seen, and this year consequently, it's not

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Speaker 4: quite as good. But those few oaks that are dropping

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Speaker 4: are gonna be huge here in the next few weeks

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Speaker 4: and so yeah, you know, I'm putting my scouting boots

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Speaker 4: back on and looking around and trying to identify those

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Speaker 4: food sources. And uh so, yeah, I mean that's kind

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Speaker 4: of it's almost like you're you've got a season reset now.

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Speaker 4: It's almost like going back into early season again, finding

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Speaker 4: finding where the groceries are and you know, getting some

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Speaker 4: scouting done and formulating new game plans. I get excited

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Speaker 4: about it. It.

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Speaker 2: So, so you mentioned acorns. What are your other top

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Speaker 2: late season food sources. There's you know, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of options out there, but what really gets you excited?

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, we've got some food plots that are planted

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Speaker 4: with late season in mine, you know, with some brassicas

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Speaker 4: and stuff we also get in I'm lucky enough to

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Speaker 4: have my my main hunting partner is a farmer, and

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Speaker 4: so I get to hunt hunt a lot of his spots,

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Speaker 4: you know, just on permission, and so he puts in

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Speaker 4: some corn and bean plots, and anytime you get those

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Speaker 4: this time of year, it's just you know, it's kind

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Speaker 4: of like a no brainer. But yeah, I like the acorns.

345
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Speaker 4: I look, you know, I look for good browse sources

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Speaker 4: self facing slopes where there's you know, woody brows and

347
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Speaker 4: grasses and forbes for him. You know, in the colder

348
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Speaker 4: we get in Minnesota here, both self facing slopes. Really

349
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Speaker 4: they play a huge role and you know, giving to

350
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Speaker 4: your place to bed and hang out for the day

351
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Speaker 4: where they're you know, ambient temperatures are a lot a

352
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Speaker 4: lot higher, and you know, they just like the lolligig

353
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Speaker 4: on those spots. So anyway, I'm doing a little shifting

354
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Speaker 4: around now and you know, looking for looking for new

355
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Speaker 4: food sources.

356
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Speaker 3: Do you ever.

357
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Speaker 2: One of the things I've historically spent a lot of

358
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Speaker 2: mental energy trying to figure out is on any given

359
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,360
Speaker 2: day in the late season, trying to decide which of

360
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 2: the possible food sources the deer might prefer. Do you

361
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 2: give any credence to you know, super cold weather pushing

362
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 2: them to one type of food source, while a warmer,

363
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,359
Speaker 2: late season day might push them towards a different kind

364
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,439
Speaker 2: of food source. Is there any kind of condition that

365
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:33,920
Speaker 2: might help you make that decision?

366
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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's not a whole lot different than

367
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Speaker 4: rout hunting. I find that if temperatures are you know,

368
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,959
Speaker 4: and everything is relative, So like if deer have been

369
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 4: living in forty degrees and all of a sudden it's twenty,

370
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 4: you know, they freak out, think they're never going to

371
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Speaker 4: eat again. Whereas if it's been zero and all of

372
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,120
Speaker 4: a sudden it's twenty, they're like, oh, yeah, I can

373
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Speaker 4: sleep in all day, We'll not worry about things. But anyway,

374
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Speaker 4: so the warmer, the relative tempts are. I tend to

375
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Speaker 4: go into the timber more and kind of approach it

376
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 4: like a rud hunt, where I want to be a

377
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 4: little bit tighter to bed. I'd rather have a food

378
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 4: source in the timber. Whereas if it's if it's cold

379
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,439
Speaker 4: and we got snow on the ground, they're gonna go

380
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 4: for the easiest groceries. In my experience anyway, they're gonna

381
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 4: go for the easiest groceries they can get, and they

382
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 4: you know, they don't care if it's daylight or whatever.

383
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,120
Speaker 4: I've seen some of the best bucks of the season

384
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 4: on those super cold days, you know, just I mean

385
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 4: out there in a you know, corn stubble or rye

386
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 4: field or I mean just any you know, no brain

387
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,239
Speaker 4: or food source, and they're you know, they're out there

388
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 4: in the middle of the day, you know, trying to

389
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 4: trying to scarf up some calories.

390
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I've got a kind of a perfect

391
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 2: scenario coming up for me. We're in our late gun

392
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 2: season here in Michigan here very shortly, or we're in

393
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,959
Speaker 2: it right now, it's coming to an end very shortly,

394
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 2: and then basically I have until this Thursday to use

395
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,479
Speaker 2: a firearm in my home state of Michigan, and then

396
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 2: it's and then it's done. So I'm curious, when you're

397
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,919
Speaker 2: down to the last few days of your late season

398
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 2: trip or late season opportunity, whatever it is in your case,

399
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 2: and you're kind of getting desperate, do you have any

400
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 2: Hail Mary type ideas for late season deer? Is there

401
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 2: anything that you'll pull out of the bag of the

402
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 2: tricks when you're down to your last couple chances it's

403
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 2: now or never and you don't have, you know, the

404
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 2: the absolute perfect, no brain or easy situation where it's

405
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: you know, perfectly cold and you've got the one amazing

406
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,719
Speaker 2: food source, Like that's an obvious one. But what if

407
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 2: the obvious one isn't available any other tricks of your sleeve?

408
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 4: I'm well, I revert back to security cover and self

409
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 4: facing slopes, and I just I pushed the en Wolpe.

410
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 4: I figure, you know, like in your situation, you've got

411
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 4: a couple of days left. I mean, you got to

412
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 4: swing for the bleachers. You got nothing to lose, you

413
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 4: might as well push your luck. And yeah, if it involves,

414
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 4: you know, even still hunt through some of that heavier

415
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 4: cover or along the edge of it, or you know,

416
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 4: sometimes you know, especially if there aren't working in your

417
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 4: favor that are going to put the deer on their feet,

418
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 4: then you got to kind of you know, as Thelensil

419
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 4: brothers either always say, you know, the tactics either wait

420
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,479
Speaker 4: for the deer or go to the deer. And so

421
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 4: sometimes you got to go to the deer. And when

422
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 4: you got you know, when you're down to the wire

423
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 4: and you got nothing to lose, you might as well

424
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 4: might as well push it. And it's you know, it's fun,

425
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 4: kind of fun to get out of tree stand once

426
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 4: in a while and you know, go after them and

427
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 4: see what you can do. So anyway, yeah, those I'm

428
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 4: not sure if that's a hardy enough fodder for your answer,

429
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 4: but you know, I do push it. I don't mind.

430
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 4: I used to be I used to be a little

431
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 4: more timid about it, you know, but you know when

432
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 4: you're when you're kind of down to the wire and

433
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 4: at the end you might as well push because it's

434
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 4: going to be a long it's going to be a

435
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 4: long season. Until they you don't have time to respond

436
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 4: to any pressure you put on them.

437
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's nothing to lose at that point, right.

438
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've had I've got a weird situation in that

439
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 2: I have one tag left in Michigan and the area

440
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 2: that I've been trying to hunt is a zone that

441
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 2: I've gotten to know well over the years. I've got

442
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 2: a handful permission properties in this area, and this has

443
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 2: been the first year and probably a decade where the

444
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 2: deer I thought I would be after this year have

445
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 2: just disappeared. One of them disappeared the third day of

446
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 2: the season, one of them completely changed his behavior from

447
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: the last two years. And Joe showed up a few

448
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 2: times throughout the year, and then since November ninth, he's

449
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 2: been gone. So I'm in a situation now where I've thought,

450
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: I just don't know if I have a deer to hunt,

451
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 2: and so I've been monitoring. I've been scouting, I've been

452
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: moving cameras and keep on I've been hoping and waiting

453
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: and hoping and waiting that eventually the cold weather would

454
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: push them into this kind of sanctuary I've created by

455
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: not overhunting it because I've been kind of waiting and waiting,

456
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: like eventually the pressure everywhere else has got to push

457
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: them back into my place and start moving, or eventually

458
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 2: the fact that all the other fields have been harvested.

459
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 2: But I have some plots on in my zone and

460
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: there's a cover crop field in the neighbors, Like there's

461
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: got to be deer coming in. Eventually a big boy

462
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 2: is going to show up, and it just hasn't happened yet. Yeah,

463
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 2: So it's been a weird, a weird deal where it's

464
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: been waiting and watching and nothing has arrived yet. But

465
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: I'm at the point now where I think I just

466
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 2: need to start taking some swings at the fences and

467
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 2: just hope that maybe something's happening that I haven't been

468
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: aware of, that I haven't been able to see, that

469
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 2: I haven't been able to observe or catch on camera,

470
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 2: and at least be out there and push it the

471
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 2: last couple of times.

472
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 4: Right, I think that's a great idea, And you know,

473
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 4: one thing that I've learned. And I'm sure you know

474
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 4: this and a lot of your viewers do as well.

475
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 4: You know, our cameras don't get everything. Yeah, you know.

476
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 4: It's it's always exciting and encouraging when you're like, oh there,

477
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 4: you know, there he is. I've been looking for that

478
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 4: deer and now he's back. You know. But just because

479
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 4: you're not catching him on camera doesn't mean he's not back.

480
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 4: He could be you know, well, he could be skirting

481
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 4: that camera. You just you know, you can you don't.

482
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 4: They don't have to be very far away for you

483
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 4: to miss them, you know. So it's uh, yeah, I'm

484
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 4: I'm with you, man. I would push it. And if

485
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 4: you've got it, sounds like you've got sanctuary and you

486
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 4: got food. I mean, those are those are two pretty

487
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 4: big deals this time of year.

488
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, usually it works, usually works pretty well for

489
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: the late season around here. And this year, I don't know,

490
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on, but we've got a

491
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: few more tries.

492
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 4: So yeah, how late does your archery season go on?

493
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 2: Then the archery season continues till January first, so perfect,

494
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 2: I could I could still get it done with a bow,

495
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: but it just seems, at least in Michigan. I've always

496
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: looked at I've got a great chance with the bow

497
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: until gun season opens, and then once gun season opens,

498
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: you've got a chance.

499
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 3: But it's very, very hard to pull it off.

500
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: In close quarters if you go back to the bow,

501
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: so open to pull it off with the firearm here

502
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: these next few days. But if not, you could always

503
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: pull the stick and string out again.

504
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, you'll get them, keep chasing them.

505
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 3: I appreciate that. I appreciate the belief.

506
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: So I think that brings me to kind of the

507
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: next thing, which is why I originally reached out to you, Scott,

508
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: which was, you know, the other side of this whole thing,

509
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 2: which is, you know, when you're in pursuit of a

510
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: deer lots of years, I'm after one specific deer. This

511
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: year it's been a few, or you have some kind

512
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 2: of goal, which more and more a lot of us

513
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: serious deer hunters do, whether it be to kill up

514
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: certain size buck or certain age buck, or a specific deer.

515
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 2: You know, all of that can lead to stress, frustration, burnout,

516
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And it's not unique to me,

517
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: because I've talked to a whole lot of different people

518
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: who feel this way, people who don't have you know,

519
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: you and I are a little bit unique in that

520
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: our careers are wrapped up in this. But there's a

521
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 2: whole lot of folks who just do this for fun,

522
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: who tell me the exact same things. I've got a

523
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: group text with a bunch of hunting buddies, and every

524
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: year you can hear them and see them getting stressed out, burnout, frustrated, upset,

525
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: And it always is kind of silly because we do

526
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: this because we love it. We do it's because it's fun.

527
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: But then somehow we let ourselves get so worked up

528
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: in it that we sometimes get lost. I guess, does

529
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 2: any of that ever happen to you? Has that resonated

530
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: with you in any what kind of way?

531
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 4: Oh? Absolutely? I think it's kind of built into the

532
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 4: to the modern deer hunting experience. You know, I can

533
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 4: remember as a kid when I started in the seventies.

534
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 4: I'm dating myself, but you know, our group, they didn't

535
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 4: know half half, They didn't know a tenth about white

536
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 4: tails that the average twenty year old knows right now.

537
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 4: You know, it was just deer hunting was an event

538
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 4: that you did every year and it was just a

539
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 4: bunch of fun getting together with guys and trying to

540
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 4: kill any buck that you saw. And it's morphed into

541
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 4: this thing that's completely different, you know, and it's you know,

542
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 4: when you when you approached me with the idea for

543
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 4: the show, I was I was thinking about my dad,

544
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 4: who's ninety five and still deer hunting, still killing him

545
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 4: got one with his crossbowl this fall, and so anyway,

546
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 4: he's seen this whole gamut of you know, the early

547
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 4: deer seasons in central Wisconsin. And you know, we did

548
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 4: a lot of We sat for a little bit, did

549
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 4: a lot of driving, but you know, we didn't we

550
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 4: didn't know any deer. You know, every big any big

551
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 4: deer that we stumbled into was just it was just

552
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 4: that it was stumbling into you know, getting struck by lightning.

553
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 4: It was we didn't we didn't know what we were

554
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 4: doing half the time. But anyway, so then we then

555
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 4: we started like, well, you know, maybe we should sit

556
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 4: more and start passing deer and blah blah blah. And

557
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 4: that came with its own learning curve and and you know,

558
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 4: most of us were on board. And my dad made

559
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 4: a comment about five or ten years into that process

560
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 4: and he said, you know, our hunting is in many

561
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 4: ways better, and he said it's definitely safer, you know,

562
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 4: without without the gang drives that we used to do.

563
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 4: But he said it's interesting because he says, in a

564
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 4: lot of cases, it's not as much fun. And I

565
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 4: was like, ouch, but true, you know, I mean we

566
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 4: had a gang of guys, you know, my old Norwegian

567
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 4: uncles and and us tag along kids that were just trying,

568
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 4: you know, not to fall in the swamp and drown.

569
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 4: I mean it was it was kind of a gregarious,

570
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: goofy fun time that was really social and you know,

571
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 4: uh and you know we weren't as I mean, we

572
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 4: were serious and that we pushed hard, and you know,

573
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: we shot a lot of deer, but we weren't I

574
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 4: don't know, we weren't this laser focus like we are today.

575
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: Like you said, I mean, you we turned you know,

576
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 4: we start we started in spring with you know, shed

577
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 4: hunting and spring scouting and summer trail cams, and all

578
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 4: of a sudden we're building this campaign. You know, it's

579
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 4: it's almost like a surgical We're trying to make a

580
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 4: surgical strike on a deer or two that we you know,

581
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 4: were really after and and that just is a different

582
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: experience entirely, so I think and obviously, you know, in

583
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 4: my opinion, deer a lot better at surviving that we

584
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: are killing them, especially a mature buck. And you know,

585
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 4: we we tend to forget, you know, sometimes what we're

586
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 4: what we're up against. I mean, we're especially in you know,

587
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 4: places like Michigan where you are, in Minnesota where I'm at.

588
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 4: I mean, these are naive deer. These are deers you know,

589
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 4: they've been shot at and chased by predators since they

590
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: were spots. So they're you know, they get three four

591
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: years old, they're pretty darn smart. And we're just doing

592
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 4: this part time. So yeah, it's it's easy to kind

593
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 4: of get your expectations way up here and your hopes,

594
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 4: you know, way up there, and you know they and

595
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 4: they can kind of, you know, handy your butt pretty easily,

596
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 4: and it's easy to get disappointed in that. You know,

597
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 4: I know that you're I mean, you don't get where

598
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 4: you got in your profession without setting goal and working hard,

599
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: and I mean it's kind of hardwired into your personality

600
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: and a lot of modern deer hunters are that same way.

601
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 4: And so yeah, when you when some of those goals

602
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: aren't met, I think it's real easy to get frustrated

603
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 4: and discoura then you know, kind of pull your hair out.

604
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, my long winded answer to your question

605
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 4: is yes, I've been.

606
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: And you know, I think it also seems to be exaggerated.

607
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: There's like two two things going on. There's one which

608
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: you just described, which is the fact that we've kind

609
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: of turned hunting into like a military mission and this

610
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: this campaign as you described it, right, and then the

611
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: flip side. We also have then widened our social circles,

612
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: and like our our our group of people we can

613
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: compare ourselves against, has grown dramatically as so many folks

614
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: have gotten on social media, and we've gone from just

615
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: discussing our hunting exploits with our small group of friends

616
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: to now maybe sharing it with hundreds or thousands of

617
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 2: other people. And I think there's a little bit of

618
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: a comparison culture going on that I think adds to

619
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: that stress too, and and and and then I guess

620
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 2: you know, there's also it's all like I mean, with you,

621
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: maybe Scott again this is a little bit unique, but

622
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: you talk to hundreds of hunters. I think given in

623
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: a given year or two, interviewing folks for articles and

624
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: all these different feature pieces and all this different stuff,

625
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: and you're looked at as someone who's who's supposed to

626
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: share with us how to get this stuff done, how

627
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: to do this stuff. You're an expert, you know. You

628
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: know the answer is, Scott, right, does that pressure? Does

629
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: that pressure ever get to you?

630
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: I think I felt that at one time, at one

631
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 4: time a little bit, but you know, but for the

632
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 4: most part, no, I'm I've consider myself more of a reporter.

633
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 4: I've never considered myself an expert deer hunting. I'm deer hunter.

634
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 4: I'm a proficient deer hunter. I spend a lot of

635
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: time at it. You know. It's interesting. I was talking

636
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 4: to Gordon Whittington and at a North American white tail

637
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 4: a while back, and you said, I don't consider myself

638
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: a great deer hunter. I consider myself an educated deer hunter.

639
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, that kind of makes sense. You know.

640
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 4: I know a lot of the stuff, and you know,

641
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 4: and I'm fortunate enough like you to be able to

642
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 4: talk to some of the country's very best and uh,

643
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: you know, soak up a lot of their knowledge like

644
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 4: a sponge. But I've always considered myself as more of

645
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 4: a reporter in what I do. I like to cover

646
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 4: what's happening with deer hunting and deer management and deer biology.

647
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 4: So I'm more of a conduit from the true experts

648
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 4: to you know, the general public that you know, the

649
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 4: garden variety deer hunter that I conclude myself in that number.

650
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 4: So anyway, Yeah, it's really funny though. My daughter when

651
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 4: she entered high school, she was, you know, like all

652
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 4: young teenage girls, she was worried about fitting in and

653
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 4: are people gonna like me and talk to me? And anyway,

654
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 4: this nice looking high school boy walked up to around

655
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: It's like the first week of school and he said,

656
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 4: are you Brooke Besteal? And Brooke goes, yeah, yep, that's me,

657
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 4: and she goes, you're He goes, your dad is Scott

658
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 4: Besteal right? And she goes, yep, that's my dad. She goes, wow,

659
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 4: he hunts deer for a living. Just launch and she's like, yeah,

660
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 4: that's what he does for a loving. We'd all be

661
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 4: starving right now.

662
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: That's pretty funny. So so that that said, though, how

663
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: do you so I think one, the fact that you separate.

664
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: I think you just showed something that is useful for

665
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: all of us, which is that you made a a

666
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 2: kind of delineation or I guess you were clear to

667
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: yourself about who you are and what your goals are.

668
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people feel pressure to be

669
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: an expert or to be some amazing deer hunter, or

670
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: to be just like some guy they see on Instagram,

671
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: and I think that leads to more stress. And maybe

672
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: what you just described there, the fact that you're okay

673
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: being a proficient deer hunter but not being the best

674
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: deer hunter in the world.

675
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: Is that something that you.

676
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: Have actually thought about with yourself and like gave yourself

677
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: permission to be like, Hey, I'm gonna be a proficient

678
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: deer hunter. I don't I'm not gonna worry about being

679
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 2: like one of these other guys who I report on

680
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: and trying to be the hero or trying to be

681
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 2: the expert or whatever it is. Is that something that

682
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 2: you ever had to kind of work on, as you know,

683
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: as you were a younger hunter, kind of figure out

684
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: your identity, what you're trying to be here or who

685
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: you are, or was that always just kind of obvious.

686
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 4: No. I think that's a great question, and I think

687
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 4: it's something we all kind of need to look in

688
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 4: the mirror and you know, have a discussion with ourselves,

689
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 4: because yeah, I mean, you know, it's really interesting. The

690
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 4: first year that I got serious about hunting, you know,

691
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 4: mature big bucks, I actually killed two pope and young

692
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 4: deer in one week. I shot one in Wisconsin on

693
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 4: October twenty fourth, and then a week later I hopped

694
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 4: the river in Minnesota I killed another one. You know,

695
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 4: both were great, biggest bucks I'd ever shot. And you know,

696
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 4: you kind of get this little, you know, warm gush

697
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 4: of feeling like I'm I'm pretty good at this right

698
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 4: And it didn't take me long, really, you know, for

699
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 4: the deer to teach me that, yeah, you really don't

700
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 4: know very much. And you know, this is another thing

701
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 4: that I'm going to sidetrack. It's just momentarily a lot

702
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 4: of you know, the we've given rise in this in

703
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 4: this hunting culture to the you know, the the role

704
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 4: of a quote unquote expert, you know, a guy that

705
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 4: really has this stuff together. And there definitely there are

706
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 4: those people. You and I both know them, you know,

707
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 4: just really really good deer hunters that have the time

708
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 4: to do it. But what a lot of us don't

709
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 4: like to talk about. And I've actually heard a guy say,

710
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 4: get kind of testy about this and maybe you have

711
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 4: to that the role of luck and deer hunting, it's

712
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 4: it's definitely a factor you can't you know, I've I've

713
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 4: told a lot of people if you don't believe that

714
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 4: there's luck involved in deer hunting, you're just not paying attention.

715
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 4: You know, you can know a whole lot about a

716
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 4: buck and even an individual deer. And like I was

717
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 4: talking to Tom Inderbrol, one of the better guys in

718
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 4: the Midwest, and he said, you know, we were talking

719
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 4: about early season deer hunting, and he said, you know,

720
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 4: we're talking about you know, patterning, patterning deer on their

721
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 4: bed to feed, you know. And he said, you know,

722
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 4: it's really it's really easy to get misled on something

723
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 4: like this because he said, you know, I know the

724
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: general area a lot of bucks bed. I don't know

725
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 4: the bed that they lay in every night. I know

726
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 4: their general area. Yep. He kind of kind of likes

727
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 4: to hang on this hill side and he said, I

728
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 4: can have that pin down right when archery season opens,

729
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 4: and he said, but here's the thing. He says, I

730
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 4: can I can get him in a bean field one

731
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 4: night and think, oh, I've got no where general betting

732
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 4: area is. Now I got his I saw him in

733
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 4: a beanfield, so I think he's on a pattern. He says,

734
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 4: total hogwash. He says that deer gets out of his

735
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 4: bed at night. He's got eight or ten different places

736
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 4: he can go, and it's just do we know why

737
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 4: he picks what he does most of the Time's not.

738
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 4: We can make educated guesses. But you know, you you

739
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: could go sit that beanfield seven nights in a row

740
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 4: and that's not his pit that night. So you just

741
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 4: weren't lucky, you know. I mean, this is just my opinion.

742
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 4: There are some guys that will get real prickly and go, oh, well,

743
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 4: you know, if it's the northwest wind, he'll do it,

744
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 4: and if it's southeast wind, he won't do it. And

745
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 4: some of that is definitely true, but you know, you

746
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 4: you definitely have to. You got to have some luck

747
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 4: on your side, like I did that first year that

748
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 4: I was dedicated to shooting big deer. You know, I mean,

749
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 4: I I rolled the dice and I got I came

750
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 4: up double sevens, you know, and it doesn't happen very often.

751
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: So anyway, luck is definitely a part of it. So

752
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 4: that helps to me, that helps take some pressure off.

753
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: You know, I can do everything I can do, then

754
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 4: the deer still has got to do what he's got

755
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 4: to do. But yeah, anyway I did, I did kind

756
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 4: of derail us there. But yeah, I think it was

757
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 4: we all have to kind of make a conscious decision about,

758
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 4: you know, why are we doing this? And like you,

759
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 4: I've been lucky enough to kill a couple you know,

760
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 4: pretty nice bucks. And it was really interesting because I

761
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 4: mean a couple of times I knew the deer, I knew,

762
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 4: you know, kind of knew where they're hanging out, went

763
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 4: in there with a hope that I would shoot that

764
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 4: particular deer, and a couple of times I got lucky

765
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 4: and did that, and it was It's really funny. So, yeah,

766
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 4: I found a mature buck, you know, did some sniffing around,

767
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 4: use my knowledge, and I you know, set up a

768
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 4: stand and I was able to get them. And I

769
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 4: tell you what, the next day, my world hadn't changed

770
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 4: a whole lot. I mean, I was the same guy,

771
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 4: my kids just like, yeah, I just boring old dad.

772
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: You know. My friends were like congratulatory, but you know

773
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 4: it's like everybody else two days later they're like, did

774
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 4: Scott get that? Dear? This year? Was that last year?

775
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 4: So you know, it's really easy to put all heap

776
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 4: all is pressure on yourself and it's like, really, you're

777
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: the only one that's worrying about it. And so I

778
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 4: did make a conscious decision that you know, I'm I'm

779
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 4: doing this because it's fun. I mean, I want to

780
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 4: enjoy it. And what taught me that, what helped helped

781
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 4: me kind of laser focus on that, was I'm I'm

782
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 4: not only a deer hunter, you know, like you, I'm

783
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 4: a trout fisherman. I love chasing the rough grouse with

784
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 4: my dog and pheasants, waterfowl, and uh, it's it's really

785
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 4: interesting when I go out there and do those those activities.

786
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 4: I don't have those high goals for myself. I catch

787
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 4: a few brown trout on a dry f line, I'm like,

788
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 4: what I'm you know, Yeah, I didn't know any of

789
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 4: those trout. I didn't you know, I didn't go out

790
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: there to target home yet.

791
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

792
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 4: I just went out and I enjoyed a beautiful evening

793
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 4: on a felt stream of a fly rod in my hand,

794
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 4: and I went home at night thinking, man, life is good.

795
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 4: This is a great world, you know, And why can't

796
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 4: deer hunting be like that? It should be like that,

797
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 4: it should Why?

798
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought about that a lot too, and I've

799
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 2: the exact thing you mentioned. I thought, Man, all these

800
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: other things I do can be just fun and enjoyable,

801
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: adventures and kind of serendipitous, and you see what happens

802
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: and you enjoy it no matter what. Why is it

803
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: the deer hunting has to be different? Why is it

804
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: that I get so worked up and so wrapped up

805
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: in it? And I don't know if it's I don't know.

806
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly why. But part of it might

807
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: be the fact that I and so many other people

808
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: have have attached goals to ambitious goals, and I don't,

809
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. I think there's probably pros

810
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: and cons to that, to having these ambitious goals, to

811
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: targeting mature bucks, or to targeting the e buck, or

812
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 2: to try to you know, fill a tag in this

813
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: state and that state, or whatever it is. But so

814
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: many of us have all of these we come into

815
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: every year with all these hit lists and all that

816
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Absolutely, ye, is there something to be

817
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: said for if someone's experiencing what we're discussing, which is

818
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: this stress, that burnout sometimes losing the fun in it,

819
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: might it be a good idea to re examine those goals.

820
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: Because that's something I've started doing and started thinking about

821
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 2: more seriously, is is maybe I need to change that

822
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 2: those goals and rethink that.

823
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: Is there something to that?

824
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 4: Oh I to I totally agree. I think you know,

825
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 4: goal setting is super healthy, and you know, this is

826
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 4: how we get better, you know, I mean we I

827
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 4: think it's pretty common. You know, we all we look

828
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 4: at a season and go, oh, you know, I could

829
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 4: have done this a little better, or I didn't scout

830
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 4: hard enough in the spring, or you know I should

831
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 4: I should have moved that standard never got to it,

832
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 4: or you know, blah blah blah. And so yeah, the

833
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 4: way we get better is to set some benchmarks for ourselves,

834
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: go out there and push it. But it's pretty easy

835
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 4: for those goals, in my opinion, to get out of

836
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 4: hand in a hurry. I know one of my cousins was,

837
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 4: you know, like he so he wanted to shoot a

838
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 4: pop and young buck. So you know he got a

839
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 4: one twenty five or one thirty beautiful buck and then oh,

840
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 4: you know, then then then it needed to be you know,

841
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 4: one forty or one fifty, and you know, you start

842
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 4: climbing that ladder and it's like when when does that stop?

843
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 4: Because it better stop pretty quick because I mean, like you,

844
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 4: I've hunted some pretty good places in my life, and

845
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 4: I tell you what, one hundred and fifty inch deer

846
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 4: is a pretty dog on good deer no matter where

847
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 4: you go anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you know, you

848
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 4: can go to Ohio and you know, recognize all of

849
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: the two hundred engineer that come out of Ohio. But

850
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 4: you walk in there and if you've got your you know,

851
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 4: if your hope is to shoot a two hundred inch deeer,

852
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 4: I can almost guarantee you disappointment. So anyway, yeah, you know,

853
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 4: I think I think you got it. Would you have

854
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 4: to adjust and figure out if your goals healthy ones?

855
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 4: You know? Anyway, I look at my dad and you know,

856
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 4: he's happy with any He's happy with any buck, which

857
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 4: is great. You know, sometimes sometimes I'd like him to

858
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 4: hold out and The only reason I want him to

859
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 4: hold out is so I can hunt with him more.

860
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 4: But I tell you what, the first like this year,

861
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 4: he shot a nice, nice, you know, two and a

862
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 4: half year old eight pointer with no brow tines. And

863
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 4: they're definitely better deer on that farm that we hunt together,

864
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 4: you know. And I would have liked to have seen

865
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 4: him hold out a little bit longer, just because I

866
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 4: want to. I like to hunt with him. And once

867
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 4: he shoots his buck, he's done, you know. But anyway,

868
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 4: he's happy as a clam and he's ninety four, and

869
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 4: I got to go, wait a minute, not my goal.

870
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 4: He met his goal and he was just you know,

871
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 4: he's ecstatic. I mean, we found that deer and you

872
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 4: can running up to me and bear hug me, you know,

873
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 4: And that was you know, gold met happiness achieved. And

874
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 4: that's that's the way it's supposed to be. So yeah,

875
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 4: it's it's easy to let those things get out of control.

876
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean I think you just need to

877
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 4: As we discussed, my personal philosophy is deer hunting is

878
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 4: it's got to be fun. I mean, why do it.

879
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 4: None of us are doing this for a living. We

880
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 4: don't need the meat to survive, you know, although I live,

881
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 4: you know, I quote unquote live on venison by very

882
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,479
Speaker 4: little beat. But you know, if I don't kill my deer,

883
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 4: I'm still gonna not gonna starve to death, not getting

884
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 4: paid for any deer that I kill. You know, I'm

885
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 4: not getting celebrity endorsements or anything. So by golly, I

886
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 4: better enjoy it. And so then you have to look

887
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 4: in the mirror and go, well, what what are the

888
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 4: things about deer hunting that makes me happy? You know?

889
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 4: And I saw you had a great picture in one

890
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 4: of your articles about you with you and two of

891
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 4: your buddies. You mentioned about, you know, coming out of

892
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 4: the woods and taking a lunch break with your friends,

893
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 4: and like that's the kind of stuff. It's so much fun.

894
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 4: You sit there and share a few stories and recharge

895
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 4: your battery and back out in the woods you go,

896
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 4: you know, and like you noted in a couple of

897
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 4: those pieces, and I've done this too. It's like, man,

898
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 4: I'd get out there at the crack of dawn, grind

899
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 4: it out in a tree stand all day long, come

900
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: back home, and you know, of course you're disappointed. You

901
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 4: spent ten hours in the woods on a clausterphobic little

902
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 4: hang on freezon and probably a little bit hungry, and

903
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 4: you didn't kill a deer and sometimes you might not

904
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 4: even see a deer for all that effort. So yeah,

905
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 4: you're gonna go home. You might be a little bit

906
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 4: drumpy around your kids, you know, and they don't always

907
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 4: appreciate the goal that you'd set here.

908
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well that's That's one of these things I've

909
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: found is that when we're I'll speak for myself, and

910
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 2: I think this applies to other people too, from folks

911
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 2: I've talked to. But I found that I feel, because

912
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: I have these ambitious goals, because I feel internal pressure

913
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: that I got to kill the mature buck or I

914
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: need to kill mature buck on every different out of

915
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: state trip I go on, or I've got to kill

916
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: the one buck I'm after here in southern Michigan.

917
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: That I know the right things to do.

918
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: And I know the plan that I put in place,

919
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 2: and I know how much time and energy is required

920
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: to achieve those goals. If I do not give one

921
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,240
Speaker 2: hundred and ten percent in pursuit of those specific goals,

922
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: I will then feel bad or upset with myself or

923
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: feel like I'm not doing everything I should be doing

924
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: and that I'm slacking or I'm not working hard enough

925
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. And so then because of that,

926
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 2: you feel the pressure to hunt thirteen hours straight every

927
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: day all day during the rut, or when you don't

928
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 2: feel like getting up in the morning because you've done

929
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: it seven days in a row you gotta go still,

930
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 2: Or when you're out there and you're sitting in the

931
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: tree stand and it's one o'clock in the afternoon and

932
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 2: you haven't seen what you've been looking for the last

933
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: three days. You're sitting there beating yourself up in your

934
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: mind like you should have done this, or you should

935
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 2: have moved there, or you should have or what do

936
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 2: you do next? Or how do you fix this? Or

937
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: what's going wrong? And you're just beating yourself up. And

938
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: because of all of that, you are not doing the

939
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: things that actually are fun, which is the going out

940
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: and having lunch with your buddies, or the taking your

941
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: kids to hunt with you, or whatever. It might be

942
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: doing something that's a little bit different the tactic, like

943
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: walking around still hunting, or something that maybe doesn't give

944
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: you the very best chance to kill the deer. After

945
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: but it actually would be a fun change of pace.

946
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 2: I constantly find myself waffling between those things and intellectually recognizing, oh, yes,

947
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 2: that would be the more fun thing to do. But

948
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 2: on the flip side saying, you know, the other side

949
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: of me say, well, you got to give it your all.

950
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: You have to be the hardest worker, you have to

951
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: be X y and Z. How have you How have

952
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: you dealt with that or do you deal with that?

953
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 4: Well? Yeah, I mean I you basically have. I mean,

954
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 4: you basically have vocalized a lot of my journey. You know,

955
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 4: I've I've I've felt all those things. And uh, you know,

956
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 4: I was I was a competitive runner in high school

957
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 4: and college, and so I knew all about goal setting

958
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 4: and hard work and you know, yeah, not going to

959
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 4: miss a run. I don't care if it's Sunday and

960
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 4: it's you know, twenty degrees and there's the foot of

961
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 4: snow out, I'm going running. Yeah, and uh and then

962
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 4: after a while it is funny though, because you know,

963
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 4: I mean, I see a lot of comparisons between athlo

964
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 4: and hunting. They're both really physical, you know, outdoor pursuits,

965
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 4: at least for me, they were, and uh, you know,

966
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 4: I just got to a point with running where it's like,

967
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 4: you know, I'm kind of tired of competing because no

968
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 4: matter how hard you work, there's there's always somebody better

969
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 4: than you, and and it takes a toll on other

970
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 4: parts of your life. And yeah, the competition is it's great,

971
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 4: you know, it's joyous and fun and when you know

972
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 4: you have some success, it's so Anyway, I think that

973
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 4: was a good prep for me for hunting where I realize,

974
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 4: I mean, I realized that at some point with running

975
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 4: it's like, you know what, I'm not doing this to

976
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 4: compete anymore. I'm just doing it because I love it.

977
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 4: I want to I like to stay in shape, I

978
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 4: like to feel like gravel crunching under my shoes and

979
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 4: the wind in my face, and you know, that's what

980
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 4: I love about running. And and uh so I reverted.

981
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 4: I quit the competing part and just ran because I

982
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 4: loved it. And so I think I reached a point

983
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,479
Speaker 4: in my deering career it was kind of like the same.

984
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, you know, you moron, and you know

985
00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 4: you're not. You know, your your personal worth is not

986
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 4: judged by the number of bucks on your wall. Your

987
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 4: kids and your wife don't care about that that much.

988
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 4: They want you happy, but they don't you know, oh Dad,

989
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 4: it was only a one forty. You know, you never

990
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 4: heard things like that, you know, So I mean I

991
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 4: just kind of did a little reset, and it's like,

992
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 4: you know, what, what what are the things about this

993
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 4: sport that I that bring me joy? And a lot

994
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 4: of it was going back to my roots where you know,

995
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 4: I killed my first buck with a bow when I

996
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 4: was a senior in high school and it was a

997
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 4: little basket rack eight pointer I shot on public land

998
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 4: in Iowa. Man, I tell you what, I rode that

999
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 4: for years. I mean, it was just it's just such

1000
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 4: a great hunt. And it was, you know, just about

1001
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 4: everything wrong, including missing my first shot at the deer

1002
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 4: at ten yards. But anyway, it was just such a

1003
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 4: great experience and it just one of those things that

1004
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 4: hooked you on the sport, hooked me on the sport.

1005
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 4: And you know, I start kind of reflecting on those things,

1006
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 4: like what are the happiest moments that you've had and

1007
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 4: what about that kind of cat for to you and

1008
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 4: trying to focus on those things and my Dad's I

1009
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 4: keep going back to my dad, but I get such

1010
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 4: a kick out of him. You know, we'll go come

1011
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 4: meet back at the truck after hunting together, and I'm like,

1012
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 4: seeing you deer, nobody said I had a chicken he

1013
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 4: land on my crossbow. And he was just you know,

1014
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 4: like a little fourteen year old kid, and it's like, well,

1015
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 4: it's not the first time he's seen that, but tonight

1016
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 4: it was a really big deal, you know, And I'm like,

1017
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 4: that's the kind of stuff that you know. We were

1018
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 4: just talking the other day he said, I remember this

1019
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 4: was and honestly, goodness, this was thirty five years ago.

1020
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 4: He's like, I remember that night I saw three otters

1021
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 4: run past my deer stand. I mean, this is on

1022
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 4: the open timber, you know, a mile from the nearest water,

1023
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 4: and he remembers that. So anyway, it's you know, if

1024
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 4: you don't appreciate the woods and can't see the beauty

1025
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 4: of things happening around, if all you're worried about is

1026
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 4: getting an arrow or a bullet into that big buck,

1027
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 4: it might be I'm not telling you it is. It

1028
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 4: might be time for a little recharge, a little reset.

1029
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 4: Because I've been there. I know that feeling. You know,

1030
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 4: you get crustbrated, you get you know, I'm not like

1031
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 4: you said, but I'm not working one hundred and ten percent.

1032
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 4: You know, why did I go peasant hunting with my dog?

1033
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 4: You know, instead of grinding on another four hours in

1034
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 4: that tree stand? Well, you know what SPS hunt when

1035
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 4: my dog is pretty dog on fun?

1036
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you keep bringing up your dad and being out

1037
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 2: there with other people, and and that brings up another

1038
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 2: one of these things that I've that I've recognized and

1039
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 2: that I know, and I've tried to make an effort

1040
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 2: to change this, but I still fall guilty to it sometimes,

1041
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 2: which is the sacrificing of like the community side of

1042
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: hunting to pursue like solo success. And oftentimes not always,

1043
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: but oftentimes when you are like single mindedly focused on

1044
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: trying to kill a buck, the best way to do

1045
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: it is to, you know, do it on your own,

1046
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: get your own permission, or find your own spots or

1047
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: hog that special place just to yourself, because you know,

1048
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: if there's more people in there, it's gonna be harder

1049
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: for you to kill that big old buck. Or because

1050
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: you're after this one deer, it's just.

1051
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: You go, go, go, go go.

1052
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: And I have found myself because of that, many times

1053
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 2: doing a lot of out of state trips by myself,

1054
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 2: a lot of times hunting properties by myself, and then

1055
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 2: I'll catch myself and realize, man, sure, it would be

1056
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: fun to be doing this with a bunch of buddies,

1057
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: or to share this experience with other people, or to

1058
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: be out here with my dad or out here with

1059
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: my kids. And oftentimes that falls by the wayside if

1060
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: you were just focused on the kill or just the

1061
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 2: big deer and so and so I've recognized that as

1062
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: something that I personally have been trying to change and

1063
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: trying to get better and try to get back to.

1064
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: But I'm curious if that's something that you have any

1065
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: thoughts on or have seen in your own experience too.

1066
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 4: Oh definitely. Yeah. I've been going out to northwest Kansas

1067
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 4: for twenty five years, I guess, and lucky enough to

1068
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 4: have a permission spot to hunt out there, and great

1069
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 4: family that's you know, just treated me like family, and

1070
00:51:54,680 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 4: I typically go by myself. And anyway, last last fall

1071
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 4: I invited a friend to go with me, and we'd

1072
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 4: donned turkeys out there before, so I knew, you know,

1073
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 4: as we both know, you got to you got to

1074
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 4: pick your hunting buddies carefully. I mean, some of them

1075
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 4: don't appreciate the privilege that you're offering them by letting

1076
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 4: him you hunt, letting them hunt your spots. But I

1077
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 4: knew this guy was good as gold. He's a wonderful friend.

1078
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 4: And we were there for you know, on hundred and

1079
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 4: six days, and it was just great. I mean we

1080
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 4: would text each other from the stand, what are you

1081
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 4: seeing blah blah blah. You know, meet at lunch, go

1082
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 4: do some Scotland, hang another set together, and at night

1083
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 4: you had somebody to kind of bounce things off with

1084
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 4: in it. I truly, you know, I didn't realize until

1085
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 4: about two days into the trip, but EHD had hit

1086
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 4: that area and there were basically no deer. I sat

1087
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 4: for four four days and never saw a deer from stand.

1088
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 4: It took me that long and then we finally realized

1089
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 4: what was happening. But it was honestly, it was so

1090
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 4: much fun. I mean, if I'd been out there by

1091
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 4: myself with that limited success, I'd be like, man, best

1092
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 4: of you really suck at this. I thought you knew something.

1093
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 4: But it was so great to have somebody to you know,

1094
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 4: you shore each other up and you know, he missed

1095
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 4: a nice bock and you know I patted him on

1096
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 4: the back and said, well, next time you'll get him.

1097
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 4: And you know it was Uh, I don't know, It's

1098
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,959
Speaker 4: just there is something about that camaraderie, camaraderie that's really

1099
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,479
Speaker 4: for a lot of us, it's an important part of hunting.

1100
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it seems to I think that oftentimes when

1101
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: I look back on the memories and the things that

1102
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 2: stand out from over all of the years of hunting. Sure,

1103
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 2: you know the deer I've shot, some of them stand

1104
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: out and definitely are you know, memories that are special.

1105
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: But then there's oftentimes those best memories or even the

1106
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 2: best part of the memory of the deer isn't actually

1107
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: shooting the deer. It's like when your buddies come with

1108
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: you to help track it and you recover and you

1109
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: celebrate that night, or when you have your son or

1110
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: your dad or your family members with you, or all

1111
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 2: these other things that we do. But the best memories

1112
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: often are with other people, and that is It's something

1113
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: that I think has gotten lost in the last ten,

1114
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty years for a lot of the serious

1115
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: deer hunters and I think I think we're missing out.

1116
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 2: And at least I can speak for myself. I have

1117
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 2: been missing out sometimes on that.

1118
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, easy to do, and I'm guilty as charged as well.

1119
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 4: And yeah, like I said, I don't think i've I

1120
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 4: don't think I've hoarded my Kansas spot, but I haven't

1121
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 4: been you know, specifically oozing with generosity with it either,

1122
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 4: you know. And anyway, when I had when I had

1123
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 4: my friend out there with me, I remembered how fun

1124
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 4: it was to hunt hunt with somebody, and uh, yeah

1125
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 4: it was. It was great. So yeah, it's pretty it's

1126
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 4: pretty easy, and we do and you know, I don't

1127
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 4: feel like I mean, I'm sure you feel this way too.

1128
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 4: I'm not speaking for everybody. There are people who are

1129
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 4: perfectly happy to hunt solo all fall. They don't need that,

1130
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,720
Speaker 4: and that's great. I mean, you've got to My biggest

1131
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 4: thing is, you know, you've got to find out what

1132
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 4: makes you happy, what brings you joy in that process.

1133
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 4: And if it's you know, if it's going out there

1134
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 4: by yourself, you know, grinding away you know, day after

1135
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 4: day and you are truly enjoying it, man, awesome, I'm

1136
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 4: I'm happy for you. I wish I could learn from it,

1137
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:14,439
Speaker 4: you could rub it off on me a little.

1138
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 2: So the flip side of that, I guess kind of

1139
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 2: adjacent to that is the the comparison culture maybe that

1140
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 2: our deer hunting community has fostered. This kind of happened

1141
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 2: by way of media and social media and everyone's goals

1142
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 2: kind of growing more and more because of that, where

1143
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: you have a lot of people who get their identity

1144
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: maybe is defined by how big of deer they shoot

1145
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 2: or how many deer they shoot. Everyone's got these little

1146
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 2: scorekeeping boards going on with their Instagram like or their

1147
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: Facebook comments or whatever it is. Everyone's a content creator

1148
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 2: now on TikTok or YouTube or whatever. Everybody wants the

1149
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: most views, likes, whatever for their big giant buck.

1150
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 3: There's there's a whole lot of ego.

1151
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 2: In deer hunting these days, and self worth sometimes being

1152
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: tied to that, and and also the opposite people feeling

1153
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 2: bad because they shot a little buck and they have

1154
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 2: to apologize for it, or you know, getting you know,

1155
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 2: a little bit jealous deep in the dark parts of

1156
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 2: their mind when they see their budies shoot a really

1157
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: big buck for the third year in a row. Or

1158
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. How have you experienced any of

1159
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 2: that over your years?

1160
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 4: Have you?

1161
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: Do you have anything to share on how to to

1162
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 2: deal with that, how to think about that, or how

1163
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: other folks maybe have shared with you how they've dealt

1164
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 2: with that.

1165
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 4: You know, it's really interesting because I cover Big Deer

1166
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 4: for the magazine on the website all the time. I've

1167
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,720
Speaker 4: been doing it for a long time. It's really interesting.

1168
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 4: A few years back, I was really getting kind of

1169
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 4: sick of it because I would find out a bit

1170
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 4: about a giant deer that somebody killed and I would

1171
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 4: manage to contact the hunter. And this didn't happen every time,

1172
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,439
Speaker 4: but it wasn't infrequent where their attitude was you know,

1173
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 4: what's in it for me? Am I Am I going

1174
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 4: to get a free bow? Are you going to pay

1175
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 4: me for this? And I was just like, oh man,

1176
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 4: you know, this isn't the reason we should be deer hunting,

1177
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 4: you know, And I got I got, you know, kind

1178
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 4: of disgusted with it, and and voice out to my editors.

1179
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 4: I'm like, you know, I'm kind of getting to the

1180
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,919
Speaker 4: end of my rope with this thing, because they'd want

1181
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 4: and you know, to our discredit sometimes we did pay

1182
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 4: for a big deer. I thought it was a mistake,

1183
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 4: you know, but if it was a really big deer,

1184
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 4: sometimes they'd you know, give them a little bit of money.

1185
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 4: And anyway, we've gotten away from that. But an interesting

1186
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 4: shift has happened within the last couple of years, and uh,

1187
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,479
Speaker 4: it's been really refreshing. And there have been some world

1188
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 4: class or you know, I've I've talked to four or

1189
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 4: five guys just this fall that have killed deer over

1190
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 4: two hundred inches and they're like, to a guy or

1191
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 4: a gal, they're just like, I mean, I am so lucky,

1192
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 4: you know, I've been so blessed to be in the

1193
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 4: woods with this critter and get a chance, and and

1194
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 4: I didn't screw it up. I got a clean kill,

1195
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 4: and blah blah blah. I'm just like, allelujah. You know,

1196
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 4: this is how we should feel, you know. And it

1197
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 4: didn't matter, you know, I mean most of them would

1198
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 4: know the score, but it wasn't like, well, yeah, but

1199
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 4: you know that guy got a bigger one, or you know,

1200
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 4: I was really disappointed because he broke off ten inches.

1201
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know, it just it really gets

1202
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 4: to the point, in my opinion, where it gets kind

1203
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 4: of silly after a while, you know, because it didn't

1204
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 4: it wasn't that long ago where it wasn't that way.

1205
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 4: You know, we didn't have this as you call comparison

1206
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 4: culture and that. Yeah, it's it's really kind of It

1207
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 4: just strikes me as a little bit say, maybe I'm

1208
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 4: just an old fart and I don't but anyway, yeah,

1209
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 4: I don't like it. Yeah I have advice, I'm not

1210
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure. I'm not really sure how to

1211
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 4: deal with it, except that, you know, if if you

1212
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 4: drop the hammer or trip the release on a deer,

1213
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 4: you should be proud of that critter, no matter what

1214
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 4: his score, his body weight is. You know, if you

1215
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 4: harvested that animal cleanly and ethically, then man, you should

1216
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 4: you should be proud, because it's not especially you know,

1217
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 4: especially if it's a mature bucket's you know, it's it's

1218
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 4: not that easy, as as we both know, and for

1219
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,919
Speaker 4: most of us it takes a lot of work.

1220
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: So anyway, but to your to your earlier point, too,

1221
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 2: nobody else really cares. I think we we oftentimes trick

1222
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 2: ourselves into thinking that people care more than they do,

1223
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: or that people notice more than they.

1224
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 3: Do or that it matters.

1225
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: Right, We're not saving We're not saving life here. We're

1226
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: not rocket scientists. We're not curing cancer. We're not we're

1227
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 2: not doing anything really worthwhile at all. We're doing something

1228
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 2: that is inherently selfish. We are, you know, feeding ourselves

1229
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: and our families, and we're doing something that gives us

1230
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: value personally. But you know, whether or not I shoot

1231
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 2: a mature buck in Michigan or not this year, probably

1232
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 2: I'm the only one losing sleep over it. And if

1233
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 2: I did end up miraculously still killing one later this year,

1234
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 2: people will notice for a half a second and then

1235
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 2: move on with their lives. Like you said, Like my

1236
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 2: sons and my wife, they're not going to look at

1237
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 2: a buck I shoot, Oh geez, should have been bigger. Yeah,

1238
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: they don't care. And I think we probably all need

1239
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 2: a little reminder like, really, this doesn't matter that much.

1240
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 2: It's not life or death. It should if it's not.

1241
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:49,439
Speaker 2: And when it comes down to it, if you are

1242
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 2: not enjoying the process, if you're not enjoying this moment,

1243
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 2: then you're missing the point because nobody else is forcing

1244
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: you to do this.

1245
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're that's so great. I love you articulate to

1246
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 4: that just beautifully, my h and you know my editor

1247
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 4: Field and stream Day for total y Well and our

1248
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 4: standing joke is I really hope that the thing that

1249
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 4: they print on my gravestone is I hope that's Scott Bestel.

1250
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 4: He was a really good deer hunter.

1251
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

1252
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, come on, let's you and like

1253
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 4: you said, you you kill a nice block, your boys

1254
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 4: or not be like, wow, our dad's really special.

1255
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: Right, They'll be They'll be just as excited. They'll be

1256
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 2: excited to go track that deer, but they would be

1257
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 2: just as excited to go track a dome, exact bike,

1258
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: to go fishing anything, right exactly.

1259
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. And the thing about you know we really do,

1260
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 4: isn't it just a fascinating aspect of of the of

1261
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 4: the you know this, the Facebook, Instagram, you know social

1262
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 4: media craze is we think people are paying a whole

1263
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 4: lot more attention to us than they than they really are.

1264
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 4: And like you said, yeah, I mean you shoot that,

1265
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 4: and you know your close circle is going to be like,

1266
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 4: way to go, Mark, way to go, Scott, great job.

1267
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 4: And a week later, you know, I mean if somebody

1268
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 4: off the street said, did best of them get a

1269
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 4: buck this year, and I'd be like, huh was that

1270
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 4: this year? Was that last year?

1271
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1272
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 4: Was it? I can't remember which deer that was. I

1273
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 4: you know, I've only had one guy who said, and

1274
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 4: this was man, this happened a long time ago, but

1275
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 4: I shot. I had my editor from Fielding Stream was

1276
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 4: with me, and we were hunting together and it was

1277
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 4: the peak of the rod and at ten thirty in

1278
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 4: the morning, I hadn't seen a single deer all morning.

1279
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 4: At ten thirty morning, I look up and here comes

1280
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 4: a ten pointer walking right to my tree. Wasn't the

1281
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 4: biggest buck in the world, a nice solid, probably a

1282
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 4: three year old, you know, but just a pretty deer

1283
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 4: made my heart jump and I'm like, I want him,

1284
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 4: you know. So anyway he walked in. I shot, my

1285
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 4: god him, made a nice bow shot on him. And anyway,

1286
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 4: I didn't even post it on Facebook or anything. I

1287
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 4: just sent, you know, sent to a few friends. Hey

1288
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 4: waled out on this tempointer and one guy said it

1289
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 4: was really fascinating to me. I just blew me away.

1290
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 4: It took him about a day and he finally got

1291
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 4: back to me and he goes, I've been looking at

1292
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 4: your buck picture, and I realized that someone in your position,

1293
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 4: he knew I was an outdoor writer sometimes has to

1294
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 4: kill kill a deer to give himself credibility. And I

1295
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 4: was like, really, wow, I took an animal so that

1296
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 4: I could look good for my readers. I'm sorry. I

1297
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 4: don't do that. You know, when i'm when I see

1298
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 4: a buck coming, the last thing on my mind is

1299
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 4: what are people going to think of me if I

1300
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 4: if I tagged this deer, if I passed this deer anyway,

1301
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 4: some anyway. That is the only time I've ever I've

1302
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 4: ever encountered that, and I so I took a deep breath,

1303
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 4: I let it rest for a minute, and then I

1304
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 4: got back to him later and I'm like, I think

1305
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 4: you did I think you misunderstand me. I said, I

1306
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 4: shot that buck because I'm super proud of it, and

1307
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 4: he made me really excited, and I think he might

1308
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 4: have apologized later. I don't know, but anyway, I thought

1309
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 4: it was important point out that I don't do that.

1310
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,439
Speaker 4: I don't look at deer hunting that way. And I

1311
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 4: you know, I learned. I mean, like every young hunter,

1312
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 4: I went through a period where I was just stacking

1313
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 4: them up you know, my teens and early twenties, it

1314
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 4: was important to you know, tag and we we grew

1315
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 4: bagged unashamedly. I mean that it was legal, and we

1316
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 4: drove deer. So you know, man the deer. If you

1317
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 4: were tagged out and a buck walked in front of

1318
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 4: you on a deer drive and you had open tags,

1319
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 4: you shot it. I mean that's just what we did,

1320
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 4: you know. And so anyway, there was a time, you know,

1321
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 4: when it was important for me to get my buck.

1322
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 4: But it's interesting, I can't remember. I don't know if

1323
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 4: I remember the specific deer, but I remember I was

1324
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 4: in my mid mid to late twenties and I shot

1325
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 4: a buck and I think I didn't I think my

1326
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 4: tag was filled and I had shot it because I

1327
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 4: knew somebody was looking for me. And anyway, I shot

1328
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 4: that deer and I walked up to it, and I'm like,

1329
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 4: you just killed this thing for a that even kill

1330
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 4: his own deer, you know, I mean, this is I

1331
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 4: don't know it. It kind of hit me then that

1332
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 4: it was like, this is kind of serious business. I mean,

1333
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 4: you're taking a life, you know. And I have a

1334
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 4: lot of love and respect for white tail deer and

1335
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 4: killing them is not something that I do lightly. You know,

1336
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 4: it's a it's a fairly big deal to me, even

1337
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 4: if it's a dough, you know, just a dough. I'm

1338
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 4: very grateful and humbled by that experience. You know, I'm

1339
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 4: super I'm super happy. I know I'm gonna have meat.

1340
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 4: I achieved a goal. You know, I sat out there

1341
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 4: in the cold or whatever, and I got my deer.

1342
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 4: But you know, I mean, I killed something, and I

1343
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 4: think we need to I think we need to be

1344
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 4: honorable about that. It's a big deal.

1345
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 3: You know. In my opinion, yeah, so so true.

1346
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 2: But I think I think what you're describing there earlier

1347
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 2: with with your with your friend who who made that comment,

1348
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: I don't think that is uncommon for people, especially the

1349
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 2: younger people these days, like my age and younger who

1350
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 2: grew up in this social media world where everyone feels

1351
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 2: like they are on a platform and everyone's watching them

1352
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 2: and and and everyone's commenting, like everyone has an opinion

1353
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 2: in the Internet age, and so so whether whether we

1354
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 2: will like it or not, Like I know that if

1355
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 2: I shoot a deer, and if I choose to share

1356
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 2: that with a world, or if I you know, uniquely

1357
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: have like a video showcasing what happens. In the back

1358
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 2: of my mind, I know they are going to be

1359
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 2: people with opinions who are going to share them and

1360
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 2: who will talk badly about me or my decisions or

1361
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 2: what I did or how I did it. And so

1362
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 2: it's in this in this weird world we live in now,

1363
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 2: and it's a really unfortunate side effect that we almost

1364
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 2: can't avoid that if you choose to share this stuff

1365
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 2: with the world, you're going to have negativity out there.

1366
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 2: And so what I've what I'm getting, what I'm learning

1367
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 2: is that I need to more and more dissociate myself

1368
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 2: and like my self worth and who I am from

1369
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 2: you know, hunting success quote unquote success. And the more

1370
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 2: I have for too long in my early years, I

1371
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 2: attached like my own value to my hunting success, so

1372
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 2: like I wasn't good enough, if I wasn't killing as

1373
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 2: many deer as this guy or that guy, or big

1374
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 2: enough deer or whatever.

1375
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the more that.

1376
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 2: I've realized that that's not actually important in the big

1377
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 2: scheme of things, the better I feel and the more

1378
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 2: I enjoy it. I mean, what I have found is

1379
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 2: that I have not just like been able to flip

1380
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,479
Speaker 2: a switch and all of a sudden not care about

1381
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 2: these things ever. But I have become more self aware

1382
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 2: and I can catch myself when I have those moments

1383
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 2: where I'm slipping down that slope and I can be who, well, well, Mark,

1384
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 2: that doesn't matter, step back, focus on the things that do.

1385
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 2: But it's a constant kind of seesaw or something that

1386
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 2: I'm on as I that's huge.

1387
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 3: I guess that's a step in the right direction.

1388
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 4: If nothing else, I cut, I find myself on a

1389
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 4: similar path because I do, like you. I enjoy the

1390
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 4: work I have. You know, I don't know what my

1391
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 4: goals are. I mean, I just I get I guess

1392
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 4: my basic goal is I want to shoot a deer

1393
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 4: that makes my knees knocked, you know, it gets my

1394
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 4: heart racing. And I mean, I've got several deer on

1395
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 4: camera going in every season where I'm like, well, I'd

1396
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 4: like to I'd like to see him with a bow

1397
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 4: and bow in my hand, you know, But I don't.

1398
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 4: I've tried to avoid the one buck mission and the

1399
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 4: you know, uh, targeting a specific deer, although I have

1400
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 4: done that and it can be exciting. But I think

1401
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 4: I think when you set yourself again. Goals are great,

1402
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 4: but I think you you know, you just gotta you

1403
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 4: gotta temper them, and and and your ability to say,

1404
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 4: wait a minute, I'm feeling kind of funky here, do

1405
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 4: I need to step back and kind of re evaluate

1406
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 4: how I'm approaching this or thinking about that. I think

1407
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 4: that's a huge step. That's you know, we we all

1408
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,679
Speaker 4: need to be able to do that, because, as you said,

1409
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, it's supposed to be fun. We

1410
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 4: gotta have fun. And I remember I was hunting a property,

1411
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 4: a pretty exclusive property in southern Iowa, you know, fairly large,

1412
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 4: managed intensively, and you know, and the standards were pretty high.

1413
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 4: I mean it was like a one fifty or one

1414
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 4: sixty minimum, you know. So anyway, you know, you go

1415
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 4: out in the woods and you're just terrified you're gonna

1416
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 4: shoot the wrong deer. And I remember describing that to

1417
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 4: my wife and she's like, why are you hunting there?

1418
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like you're having very much fun. And

1419
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 4: I'm like, you know, that's it. I didn't say it,

1420
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 4: but I'm like, it's kind of a good point. Am

1421
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 4: I really having fun? I Mean, I'm on this place

1422
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 4: that most guys would just kill the hunt, you know,

1423
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 4: just three thousand acres or whatever. I mean, it's just

1424
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 4: you know, probably one of the best hunting properties in

1425
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 4: the North America, you know. And anyway, Yeah, so.

1426
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 2: Well along the along the same line, scat. You know,

1427
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 2: I found when I'm out there hunting for a mature buck,

1428
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 2: and I you know, when you're out there after mature buck,

1429
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 2: you know that there's so much that you have to

1430
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 2: do just right right if you can't make this mistake,

1431
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 2: you can't make that mistake. You have to you have

1432
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 2: to have the perfect access route, you have the perfect

1433
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 2: exit route. You got to make sure you're thinking about

1434
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 2: your wind direction. Make sure you're thinking about where these

1435
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 2: deer are going to travel, how will the mature buck

1436
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: move through, or how will you evade, you know, the

1437
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 2: noses in the eyes of every single dough And make

1438
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 2: sure you don't crack that twig when you're walking in,

1439
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 2: and make sure that when you're up in the trees

1440
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 2: and you do this, this, that and the other. There's

1441
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 2: so much stuff, right, yeah, And I find myself constantly tense.

1442
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 2: It's it's it's a very tense experience. And so the

1443
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 2: stakes seems so high, and the pressure is on everything.

1444
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 2: As soon as I flip the switch to not targeting

1445
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: mature buck instead just trying to shoot, does everything changes?

1446
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, it's like, oh man, this

1447
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 2: is fun, this is the fun hunting.

1448
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 3: And what an idiot?

1449
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 2: Like, what an idiot I am that I don't allow

1450
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 2: myself to have fun out there until the last like

1451
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 2: three weeks of the season when I start focusing on

1452
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 2: dos and and like there's something there that, for some

1453
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 2: reason I don't notice early enough in the year or

1454
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 2: or apply to the rest of the year. That something

1455
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 2: changes for me when I shift from trying to kill

1456
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 2: a mature box to instead being okay with you know,

1457
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 2: hunting for does. And how can I apply that feeling

1458
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 2: or that level of just having fun with it to

1459
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 2: the rest of my year or do I need to

1460
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 2: change my goals to feel that way the whole year.

1461
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what the takeaway there is, but there's

1462
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,440
Speaker 2: something there. When I have a totally different hunting experience

1463
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 2: and one of them is largely more fun than the other,

1464
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 2: there's something there to learn.

1465
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 4: And it's fascinating because really, when you think about it,

1466
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,680
Speaker 4: and I've had this discussion with several guys, you know,

1467
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 4: in my mind, especially when we're at this phase of

1468
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 4: the season where we've been through early archery and most

1469
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 4: of the fire arms and muzzleoder now we're down to

1470
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 4: the you know, we're kind of down to the bar

1471
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 4: bones stuff. I will I will stand on this. The

1472
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 4: smartest deer in the herd is a mature dough. She

1473
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 4: has spent her entire life doing nothing but raising babies

1474
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 4: and getting them through, you know, this gauntlet of predators

1475
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 4: and hunters and cars and all kinds of things. And

1476
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 4: when she steps out onto a field or a food

1477
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 4: plot man, her radar is on. And I've seen mature

1478
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 4: bucks act like complete dopes this time of year, like

1479
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 4: I'm just doing homery. I'm just gonna go out through

1480
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 4: me and I don't care what what's happening. So it's

1481
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 4: it's fascinating, isn't it that you know, we're just we're

1482
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 4: just hunting a dough. Well, I tell you what, that

1483
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 4: big old nanny with a head like a burrow. You know,

1484
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 4: she's a pretty tough customer. You put an arrow in

1485
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 4: her this time of year, you've done something, I mean,

1486
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 4: that's you know, you may not get your your your

1487
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 4: picture on the cover of a magazine, or you know,

1488
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 4: be an Instagram hero. But man, I tell you what

1489
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 4: I shot one a couple couple falls or a couple winners. Back.

1490
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,679
Speaker 4: Was the coldest night of the season, and I actually

1491
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it. I bumped that deer and three

1492
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 4: other There was two other doughs and a couple fawns.

1493
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 4: They were all on the food plot. When I got there,

1494
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 4: it wasn't a food plot, it was it was a

1495
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 4: stubble field. Anyway, they trotted off. They saw me coming

1496
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 4: from half a mile away, and I'm like, oh, the

1497
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 4: night is done. But I'm like, well, I've walked this far.

1498
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 4: I actually snowshoot into this place. It was that far

1499
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 4: off the so I'm like, well, I'm just gonna crawl

1500
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 4: up in the tree and you know, whiddle away. The

1501
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 4: rest of the afternoon was the last night of the season,

1502
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 4: you know. And I crawled up my tree and I

1503
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 4: couldn't believe it. Twenty minutes before dark, here they come

1504
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 4: back out, and that big nanny Doe was leading the way,

1505
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 4: and she stuck her head out of the woods and

1506
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,719
Speaker 4: she just sat there looking while all the other deer

1507
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 4: held out into this corn stubble and she finally walked

1508
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 4: out there. I shot her. She made like a little

1509
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 4: thirty yard loop and collapsed in the field. And I

1510
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 4: don't know, I must be getting old and sappy, but

1511
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 4: I walked up to that deer and I knelt in

1512
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 4: the snow and I cried. I mean, I was so

1513
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 4: proud of that. You know, it was just like that

1514
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 4: was the deer. I don't know, I would have been cool.

1515
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 4: She was wearing one hundred and fifty inch ten point

1516
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 4: rack that she wasn't but she's probably seven years old.

1517
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:15,440
Speaker 4: I'm like, what is that old gal scene in her lifetime?

1518
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 4: You know? And uh, that was was a heck of

1519
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 4: a trophy. Yeah, anyway, special and it was interesting. I

1520
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 4: did post that picture of that deer on Facebook and

1521
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 4: I had three different guys go, that's a shed buck,

1522
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 4: and I'm like, trust me them, I feel dressed her.

1523
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 4: There was plumbing to be a doll was there. But

1524
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 4: she was huge, you know, so I'd hate to guess

1525
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 4: how old she was. You know. That's pretty special anyway.

1526
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 4: So yeah, the old just a dole thing. That's that's

1527
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 4: interesting because I mean I do the same thing. I

1528
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 4: think exactly the same way. Well, let's just go out

1529
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 4: and have some fun shoot those you know.

1530
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe we can apply that to larger parts

1531
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 2: of the year somehow, right, you know, there might be

1532
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 2: a way to do that, A couple of different ways

1533
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 2: to do that, but one of them you you mentioned,

1534
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 2: and I'm curious if you did this for this reason.

1535
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 2: You mentioned that you use a recurve sometimes or maybe

1536
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 2: all the time. Now, I guess I'm not sure, but

1537
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,480
Speaker 2: was the decision to start using a recurve something related

1538
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 2: to all of this in some kind of way, because

1539
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 2: I've started thinking, maybe that's maybe that's something I should try,

1540
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:20,560
Speaker 2: because all of a sudden, you know, any deal with

1541
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 2: the recurve would be really a heck of an accomplishment

1542
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 2: and something super exciting and might be very different and

1543
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 2: a fun new thing for me to do rather than

1544
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 2: obsess over you know, the one hundred and forty inch

1545
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,600
Speaker 2: four year old that's within five spare miles of me.

1546
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 4: Right, you still like you felt what I do? No,

1547
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 4: it's an interesting So, I uh, I told you about

1548
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 4: that first year that I got you know, I got

1549
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,640
Speaker 4: two p and y bucks in a week, and I

1550
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 4: think a couple it was a year or two after

1551
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 4: that I started. I was kind of inspired by the

1552
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 4: Wensil brothers and Paul Schaeffer and some of the other

1553
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 4: these other guys, and so yeah, I picked up a

1554
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 4: recurve and I hunted exclusively with a recurve for over

1555
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:08,040
Speaker 4: a decade and it was really it was fun. It

1556
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 4: was sometimes frustrating. Yeah, you know, you pass some shots

1557
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 4: a deer that you probably would have get taken with

1558
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 4: a compound. But so anyway, then then my kids were born,

1559
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 4: and for me, anyway, it takes a lot of practice

1560
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 4: to be professional with a recurve. I have to shoot

1561
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,639
Speaker 4: every day just to burn that into my muscle memory

1562
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 4: and really stay sharp. And so anyway, when my kids,

1563
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 4: I have boy girl twins, and all of a sudden,

1564
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 4: life got really really busy and practicing was not as

1565
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 4: easy it was. And so and plus I was writing

1566
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 4: more and more about bowl hunting and testing bows, and

1567
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 4: I'm like, I really gotta I gotta be So I

1568
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 4: hadn't shot a compound bowl in ten years, so they'd

1569
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,679
Speaker 4: obviously changed quite Yeah. When I picked up the new ones,

1570
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 4: I was like, holy God, these things are really good.

1571
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:54,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1572
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,680
Speaker 4: So anyway, so then I shot compounds for you know,

1573
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 4: for many many years. Well then now my kids are

1574
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 4: growing off on their own, and I'm like, I've got

1575
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 4: a cousin who continues, and he not only shoots recurves,

1576
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 4: he builds them. And so anyway, he just kept kind

1577
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 4: of gently, really gently working on me, like you know,

1578
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 4: I could build you a bowl. And so anyway, I'm like,

1579
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 4: you know what, And I talked it over the friend

1580
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 4: and he said, you know, hey, you don't shoot that

1581
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 4: many bucks anymore anyway, so why do you care? And

1582
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 4: then I started thinking about it, and I'm like, you know,

1583
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 4: my maximum range with a recurve, you know, fifteen yards

1584
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:32,799
Speaker 4: is like ideal. I can do twenty if the situation

1585
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,680
Speaker 4: is right. And then I thought, you know, bestil, how

1586
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 4: many of the deer that you shot with a compound

1587
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 4: were further than twenty yards away? And I could think

1588
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 4: of like three, you know, almost all of them are

1589
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 4: just they're just right there. And that's one of the

1590
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 4: to me. You know, you talk about goal settings, One

1591
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 4: of my greatest goals and challenges as the bowl hunter

1592
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:55,599
Speaker 4: is where do I set my stand to get that

1593
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 4: super killing shot. I'm not interested in killing a deer

1594
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 4: at fifty yards, zero interest in it. I won't. I

1595
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 4: just won't shoot that. I don't care if I can

1596
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 4: do it on a target course. This is just me,

1597
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 4: not talking about people who like to shoot long range.

1598
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 4: This is just my thing. My joy is setting a

1599
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 4: tree stand or a ground blind or whatever so that

1600
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 4: I can get a close range shot at a mature buck.

1601
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,719
Speaker 4: And that I'm like, why can't I use a recurve

1602
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 4: for that? And I can? So yeah. So anyway, I

1603
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 4: started getting serious about it last summer and shooting and yeah,

1604
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 4: I've hunted with one off all this fall, and yeah,

1605
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 4: it's just it's funny. I've got a little Judo point.

1606
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:32,640
Speaker 4: I got an arrow with a Judo point on it,

1607
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 4: and when I walk out after a morning hunt, I'm

1608
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 4: shooting at leaves and stumps and sticks and it's just

1609
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 4: a blast. I enjoy it. There's just something about So, Yeah,

1610
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,559
Speaker 4: it's brought some joy into my life. I like it. Yeah,

1611
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 4: I'd recommend it so.

1612
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 2: That I think is a perfect place to send us

1613
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 2: to end it. Okay, the recurve is something that's brought

1614
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,839
Speaker 2: some more joy to your hunting life. We've talked about

1615
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 2: some of the social stuff. Are there any other ideas

1616
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 2: that you would want to leave folks with as we

1617
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 2: wrap this conversation up here now, with folks, you know,

1618
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 2: they might have three to five weeks of hunting left,

1619
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,719
Speaker 2: depending on what state they're in for this last phase

1620
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: of the hunting season. What final words of wisdom would

1621
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 2: you give folks to help them, you know, make the

1622
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 2: very most of these final weeks.

1623
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:25,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just as I think I indicated earlier in

1624
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 4: the show, I this is one of my favorite parts

1625
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 4: of the season. And I think part of it is

1626
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 4: maybe because I used to be a competitive runner, and

1627
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:38,360
Speaker 4: so I value endurance. And you know, when you've gotten

1628
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 4: this far and you're still hunting, you've proved you've you've

1629
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 4: got endurance you can keep you can keep plugging away.

1630
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,639
Speaker 4: And I think that's that's kind of a little badge

1631
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 4: of honor. It might be a minor one for some people,

1632
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 4: but yeah, and and for one thing, I know how

1633
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 4: long it's going to be till that next hunting season

1634
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 4: comes around. So I want to milk everything I can

1635
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 4: out of these last few weeks and enjoy it. You know,

1636
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 4: the sunsets and sunrises of winter to me, are the

1637
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 4: most spectacular and beautiful I love every minute of that

1638
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 4: part of it. And to me, I don't know. The

1639
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 4: other thing that I mean it's a little bit selfish too,

1640
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 4: is that I mean I hunt a lot during the rut,

1641
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 4: and I see as many mature bucks now from now

1642
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 4: till the end of December. We close December thirty first.

1643
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 4: I typically, if we get the right weather and I

1644
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,760
Speaker 4: can find the food, I'll see as many mature bucks

1645
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 4: in the next three weeks as I will the entire

1646
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,559
Speaker 4: month of November. And that's just my area. I'm just lucky,

1647
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:35,799
Speaker 4: you know, I've got some farms that don't get pressured

1648
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 4: very hard in December. So anyway, yeah, I just I

1649
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 4: don't know. I think you just got to keep the

1650
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 4: faith and recharge sometimes, you know, it feels good to

1651
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:47,600
Speaker 4: take a couple of days off, like today, it's going

1652
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 4: to be forty five around here, so I'm not going

1653
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 4: deer hunting. It's like the deer, you know, I need.

1654
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:54,839
Speaker 4: I need a couple of days of you know, reset

1655
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 4: and recharge my batteries. Is I don't think the deer

1656
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 4: are gonna move that great tonight. But anyway, when when

1657
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 4: the weather flips and it's gone in two days, I'm

1658
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:04,639
Speaker 4: gonna be out there and I'm gonna keep plugging away

1659
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:06,479
Speaker 4: to the bitter end just because I love it. I

1660
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:08,880
Speaker 4: don't I want to say goodbye to the season in

1661
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 4: a proper way, which to me is in a tree stand.

1662
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. I'll be doing the same, Scott.

1663
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 2: I really do appreciate you taking the time to do this,

1664
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 2: and I go, I guess I want to give you

1665
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:25,560
Speaker 2: a chance if there's any specific article or place that

1666
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 2: you would want to send folks to read more of

1667
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 2: your work, or to take stay up to data and

1668
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:32,920
Speaker 2: some of the things you're sharing out there with Field

1669
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:34,639
Speaker 2: and Streamer or anything else that you'd like to send

1670
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 2: folks towards to take a look at.

1671
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 4: Sure, well, I'm mostly writing this time of year. I'm

1672
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 4: mostly writing for fieldstream dot com, so the website, and yeah,

1673
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 4: we've got some how to stuff and some big bucks stories.

1674
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 4: There's been some tremendous deer killed this year. Just oh,

1675
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 4: it's just it amazes me. I mean, we are living

1676
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 4: in the good old days of white tail hunting right now.

1677
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, it's I can't remember. It used to

1678
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 4: be a huge deal when you know, for the magazine

1679
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 4: we'd find it out angle two hundred deer in the fall,

1680
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 4: you know, And now, I mean, good lord just raining

1681
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,559
Speaker 4: on us. You know, there's just some tremendous deer out there,

1682
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 4: and hunters, I tell you what, hunters are just better

1683
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 4: now than they've ever been. I mean, the average the

1684
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 4: average twenty five year old white tail hunter in America

1685
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 4: right now and knows way more than I knew before

1686
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 4: I was forty. I mean, you know, they just they

1687
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 4: just know, you know, they got good spots and they

1688
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 4: know how to hunt them. So anyway, but yeah, go

1689
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:29,799
Speaker 4: go to fieldstream dot com. You might find some good stuff.

1690
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,400
Speaker 4: And I'm really honored to be on this show. And

1691
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 4: I appreciate your approach and you're you know, you're really

1692
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 4: really a smart and sensitive and uh really sharp deer hunter,

1693
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:45,559
Speaker 4: and I appreciate it. Your presences is greatly appreciated on

1694
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 4: the on the deer hunting landscape for me.

1695
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 3: Thank you, Scott.

1696
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 2: I appreciate you saying that, and thank you again for

1697
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:54,640
Speaker 2: everything you're doing, for being here today, for answering my

1698
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 2: email seventeen years ago or whatever it was, and for

1699
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 2: continuing to be a great voice and leader in our space.

1700
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,519
Speaker 2: And I really enjoy your guys's print magazine. I'm glad

1701
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 2: it's back. Great with you too.

1702
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 4: I'm exciting to see you actually have a magazine you

1703
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 4: can hold on to again.

1704
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a really it's a really great product,

1705
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 2: a really nice, physical, beautiful magazine.

1706
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 3: So I'm looking forward to the future issues too.

1707
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 4: Cool. I hope, I hope there's a lot of them.

1708
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 2: Thanks Mark, thank you, and that is going to do

1709
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 2: it for us here today.

1710
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining me.

1711
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 2: I hope you found value in this conversation, and I

1712
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:37,559
Speaker 2: hope it will help inspire and inform you for these

1713
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 2: final weeks of the year. Let's make the most of it.

1714
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 2: Let's enjoy this hunting season. Let's have a lot of

1715
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:46,160
Speaker 2: fun out there. Let's fill a tag or two more

1716
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 2: if possible. Let's enjoy the company of our friends and family,

1717
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 2: and let's end this season on a high note. Thanks

1718
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 2: for being here, and stay wired to Hunt.