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Speaker 1: I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, and this is Bloomberg Crypto Daily,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg I Heart Podcast, and I'm Philip Lagger Crancers in

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Speaker 1: today for Stacy Marie Ishmael. It is Friday, January, the

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Speaker 1: end of the traditional work week. Is here time for

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Speaker 1: another This Week in Crypto episode, And you know, as

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Speaker 1: is often the case, weird things are happening in crypto.

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Speaker 1: Is crypto back? That is one question that we're going

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Speaker 1: to be asking this week. Bitcoin is up this year,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of smaller tokens are up way, way

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Speaker 1: more than that. Salana, which was kind of the ugly

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Speaker 1: step child of two thousand two, has rallied more than

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Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty percent, for example. Suddenly we're starting

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Speaker 1: to hear words like fomo again. And then we have

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Speaker 1: the crypto comebacks, or at least crypto comeback attempts. I

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Speaker 1: guess we can say the guys behind three a C,

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Speaker 1: the crypto hedge fund that literally blew up the industry

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Speaker 1: last year, are seeking money for a new startup. A

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Speaker 1: lady who's been charged in the world's biggest crypto heyst

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Speaker 1: is landing a new tech job here to help me

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Speaker 1: break down all of this are Bloomberg Senior editor Anna

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Speaker 1: Errera and Bloomberg reporter Bill Donna Hirich. Hello, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Everything is back. After pretty appalling we're now

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Speaker 1: seeing words like fomo appear again. We've had a long

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Speaker 1: winning streak for bitcoin, vill Donna, do you want to

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Speaker 1: start talking a little bit about what's happening in markets

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Speaker 1: from your advantage point? What's going on here? Bitcoin is back.

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin is back, baby, I think is what people are

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Speaker 1: saying on Twitter. So we we've had this super strong

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Speaker 1: start to the year for cryptocurrencies where we've seen Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: rallying more than in the first couple of weeks of

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Speaker 1: the year, and you're seeing some retail investors waiting back in,

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Speaker 1: maybe tentatively, but they're waiting back in, and possibly institutions

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Speaker 1: also showing some interest there. But you know, I think

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Speaker 1: we can ascribe it to a couple of different things

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Speaker 1: that are happening. The main one being that we're also

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Speaker 1: seeing a resurgence in risk appetite when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the US equities market, for example, or even just globally speaking,

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Speaker 1: equities have been rallying to start the year. So we

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Speaker 1: have the SMP if I fund it up. We have

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Speaker 1: tech stocks up, and we know in the past, at

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Speaker 1: least before f t X, for the majority of crypto

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Speaker 1: was trading in tandem in the same way that stocks

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Speaker 1: were trading in the US, and so you're seeing the

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Speaker 1: two of them moving in similar fashion. Once again, just

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Speaker 1: with crypto, the moves have been much more, much bigger,

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Speaker 1: much more pronounced. I took a look at the cryptocid

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Speaker 1: worksheet that we have today. I saw Solana up and

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Speaker 1: thirty six. It seems like in the olt coin space

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Speaker 1: it's even more pronounced, right, And this is the thing

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Speaker 1: that maybe a traditional asset investor might warn you about

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Speaker 1: and say, Okay, maybe don't wait in into the crypto

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Speaker 1: space over there with with some of those smaller coins,

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Speaker 1: and maybe don't pay attention with what's going on with

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Speaker 1: doage coin, etcetera, etcetera. But that tends to happen when

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Speaker 1: we do see a resurgence in risk capitae, when we

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Speaker 1: do see enthusiasm coming back in. So you have Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: rallying big, you have Ether coming big, and then when

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Speaker 1: you see the smaller coins, it's sort of telling of

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Speaker 1: what's going on in the space. And then similarly in

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Speaker 1: the equity space, because I cover your stock markets as well.

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Speaker 1: We are also seeing meme stocks, certain memes stocks just

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Speaker 1: rallying like crazy. So you are just seeing it in

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Speaker 1: certain pockets of of of the different markets. If you

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Speaker 1: look at last year, we had all these you know,

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Speaker 1: massive blow ups, starting with Terry us d terror USB

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Speaker 1: and its sister token Luna lost their head to the dollar.

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Speaker 1: In the last few weeks, they had a spectacular meltdown,

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Speaker 1: and then bitcoin and crypto folse off a cliff, and

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Speaker 1: then there are a couple of weeks of you know,

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Speaker 1: either stability or even climbing back a bit, and then

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Speaker 1: the next few drops three a C crypt hedge front

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Speaker 1: three arrows Capital has been ordered into liquidation by a

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Speaker 1: court in the British Virgin Islands. And then saying that

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Speaker 1: pattern kind of played out a couple of times during

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Speaker 1: and so what you're saying is basically, there is still

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Speaker 1: a risk hanging over us that there's ugliness out there,

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Speaker 1: whether or not spawned in some way, shape or formed

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Speaker 1: by f t X, that we still haven't really clear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting is because that situation hasn't

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Speaker 1: been resolved. The issues we left the year with so

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Speaker 1: like do you put your money in exchange? Maybe you

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Speaker 1: don't want to, kno, because you're worried there will be

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Speaker 1: more default If not, where do you trade? Like are

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Speaker 1: you do you? Are you sure you know who else

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Speaker 1: is going to collapse? And do you want to expose

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Speaker 1: yourself to more counterparty risk or make new investments because

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Speaker 1: you might need them to you know, carry your butt

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Speaker 1: if something happens um then you know, until that gets solved,

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Speaker 1: then it's it's interesting to see, you know, or to

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Speaker 1: to see the price going up because there might be

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Speaker 1: a natural ceiling to that I wonder like or maybe not.

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Speaker 1: Cryptos very weird and crazy, and you know, it's always

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Speaker 1: I'm always skeptical of people have clear reasons about why

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Speaker 1: it goes up when it explodes, go and goes up

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Speaker 1: a lot, or why it falls, you know, so every

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Speaker 1: rally people have had to come up with like their

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Speaker 1: narrative about why it's gone up, and it's sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: a narrative that develops a sort of excuse in a way,

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Speaker 1: so you know it might go up. I don't know. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of my job to predict it. And I

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Speaker 1: think Anna is right and if I can just add,

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Speaker 1: you know, because we are sort of trying to develop

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Speaker 1: these now ratives around why the rallies might be happening

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Speaker 1: at any given point. What a lot of investors tend

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Speaker 1: to do is look at technical signals. And the thing

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Speaker 1: that we did see at the start of this year

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Speaker 1: is Bitcoin, for example, trading above it's fifty day moving average,

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Speaker 1: which is just like lingo, like a technical indicator to

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Speaker 1: say that it's rallying so fast it's moving above the

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Speaker 1: it's average price over the last fifty days, and something

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Speaker 1: like that can maybe be a sort of trigger signal

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Speaker 1: for others to also step in. And so maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: that's part of the explanation as well. But I do

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Speaker 1: want to add an Anna touched on this as well.

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Speaker 1: Trading volumes are still like anemic. They're super low compared

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Speaker 1: to what we've seen in the past, and you do

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Speaker 1: still have retail and institutional investors who are just terrified.

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Speaker 1: They've totally bailed out from from the space, and they're

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Speaker 1: not really looking to wait back in in any meaningful way,

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Speaker 1: at least at least not yet. And actually I want

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Speaker 1: to see some something that Anna said, I think he

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Speaker 1: said weird and crazy, and that's kind of the perfect segue.

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Speaker 1: It's the best explanation, and it's also a perfect segue

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Speaker 1: into what we're gonna talk about next, because we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about the founders of three A C returning to

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Speaker 1: raise money for a new crypto venture. And we covered

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Speaker 1: this together vivid memories from both what happened with three

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Speaker 1: A C but also what happened on crypto Twitter when

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Speaker 1: this got out there. Let's first rewind a little bit

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Speaker 1: for those who are not as familiar with three A

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Speaker 1: C as we maybe are, so basically, in a nutshelter

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Speaker 1: hours capital run out of money, they couldn't sort of

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Speaker 1: the investments, that the value of their investments went went

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Speaker 1: down and they couldn't meet margin calls from from their

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Speaker 1: lenders um and so they went past and since then

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Speaker 1: we've not been able to figure out where the founders

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Speaker 1: are based. They've been it's not like they disappeared. They're

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Speaker 1: been active on Twitter. They are emerged, re emerged somewhat

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Speaker 1: triumphantly after FTX went bust um, but they haven't sort

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Speaker 1: of been located and they're in discussions with the liquidators

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Speaker 1: of their fund, who say they aren't cooperating and so

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Speaker 1: it's not like they went completely quiet and we didn't

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Speaker 1: know where they were. But obviously there's still a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that are very happy with them, especially because

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Speaker 1: like three a C Was as you were saying that

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Speaker 1: we've been seen lots of like dominoes fall, right. So

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Speaker 1: they then were counterparties to many other players, among which

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Speaker 1: is Genesis, which we mentioned before, who has at one

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Speaker 1: point two billion claim with them. So you know, there's

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Speaker 1: lots of people that harbor sort of, uh, not the

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Speaker 1: nicest of sentiments towards the founders. And so when these

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Speaker 1: guys reappeared this week or rather sort of, it became

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Speaker 1: known that they were running around or I guess zooming

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Speaker 1: around pitching a new idea for a venture and trying

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Speaker 1: to raise million to launch an exchange to trade claims

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Speaker 1: of bankrupt crypto companies. Then people had a lot to

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Speaker 1: say because obviously, you know, um, it's just crazy. As

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Speaker 1: we said we said before, some considered a bit a

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Speaker 1: bit in saying that even before their own issues are resolved,

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Speaker 1: are the issues of their fund that they're trying to

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Speaker 1: set up another venture that, of all things, trades claims.

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Speaker 1: And the point being that this is sort of an

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Speaker 1: a liquid market. It's hard to trade these things, but

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Speaker 1: there is demand, and obviously there are there's no shortage

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Speaker 1: of bankrupt crypto companies now and so no short of

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Speaker 1: claims and opportunities there. And we have to mention what

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Speaker 1: they're proposing to name this new venture, which is G

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Speaker 1: t X, which a lot of people immediately seized upon

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Speaker 1: because it's so similar to F t X, except that

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Speaker 1: G comes after F. Of course, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of F plus one on crypto Twitter. You have to wonder,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can almost not pick, even if it

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Speaker 1: was a tentative kind of placehold the name or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Just by picking this, I mean, they must have known

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Speaker 1: that people were going to skewer them for picking such

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Speaker 1: a name. Huh. Twitter was the best place to get

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Speaker 1: a sentiment check, just to read on sentiment on on

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Speaker 1: what people were feeling about this. And in the stories

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Speaker 1: that we were putting together in regards to this, there

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Speaker 1: was this great quote from Nick Carter at Castle Island

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Speaker 1: Ventures and he said, it's akin to our sinists returning

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Speaker 1: to the scene of the crime and offering to charge

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Speaker 1: their victims for buckets of water, which I just really

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Speaker 1: liked because it sort of ties up exactly what people

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Speaker 1: were um sort of talking about in regards to this

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. And we'll be right back with more of

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Speaker 1: the week's top crypto stories with Anna and Willdonna. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about another comeback story. Um, we

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Speaker 1: want to touch upon it briefly because Razzle Cohn is

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Speaker 1: back in the news. Heather Morgan, I believe is her

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Speaker 1: given name, the Crocodile of Wall Street, the Crocodile of

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Speaker 1: Wall Street. Yes, and she is now I believe, awaiting

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Speaker 1: trial for involvement or alleged I should say, involvement in

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest crypto heists in history. And it

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Speaker 1: emerged this week that she has a new job or

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Speaker 1: she's about to have a new job. Yes, so she

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Speaker 1: has a new job. The founders of three I C

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Speaker 1: apparently have a new job. So it's the comeback week

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Speaker 1: for a lot of crypto people or formerly uh disgraced

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Speaker 1: maybe we can say crypto people. She had been accused

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Speaker 1: with another person of stealing four point five billion dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of bitcoin from bitfn x back in the day,

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Speaker 1: and we don't know where her new job is going

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Speaker 1: to be. I think all that's been revealed is that

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Speaker 1: she's going to be working in tech, but it does

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Speaker 1: seem like she's on her way to having a new role.

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Speaker 1: Everybody gets a second chance in crypto, and memories maybe

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Speaker 1: are shorter than elsewhere. I don't know. We are going

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Speaker 1: to move on to talk about more. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you want to call it serious news here. UM

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Speaker 1: publicly traded crypto exchange coin Base has been in the

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Speaker 1: news quite a lot over the past couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: We've discussed them here on this podcast. Um they're cutting jobs,

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Speaker 1: and then we had a headline the other day saying

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Speaker 1: they will assess their global operations. What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: What are they looking at right now? Anna? I think

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Speaker 1: the word they use was bright size, but we thought

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Speaker 1: it was too jargony, so as we were doing the

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Speaker 1: headline without assessment made more more sense to normal humans.

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Speaker 1: But you know, they're shutting down their operations in Japan,

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Speaker 1: they've said, And so one of the reporters for Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Quicktake in Davos asked the chief policy officer, I believe

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Speaker 1: whether they were going to shut down and think more

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Speaker 1: or what the plans were, and they sort of He

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Speaker 1: said that the plan was in tradatural expansion, but they

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Speaker 1: were going to make sure that the sort of their

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Speaker 1: operations in every region or are of the right size

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Speaker 1: for the opportunity there. And you know, obviously the opportunity

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Speaker 1: seems to have shrunk a bit over the last year,

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Speaker 1: so you know, question is does that mean downsizing growing?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they're they're going to be looking at where

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Speaker 1: they are, what they do, whether they needs to grow

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Speaker 1: or shrink, which which is interesting. There's another company there

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Speaker 1: is a crypto bank named Silvi gate Um, and this

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Speaker 1: is quite an interesting one because there's sort of an

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Speaker 1: interface between the crypto world and I guess what we

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Speaker 1: could call the regular world of Fiat currencies, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And they've been having some troubles, but they did come

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Speaker 1: up with result the other day and Vildanna, the share

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Speaker 1: re action was actually quite positive. They've been absolutely pummeled

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Speaker 1: over the past couple of months. We should going out,

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Speaker 1: but the reaction when they presented results finally was fairly positive.

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Speaker 1: What's going on there? Yes, a silver gate is known,

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Speaker 1: as you said, the biggest crypto bank, and their shares

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Speaker 1: had risen just astronomically during the first couple of pandemic

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Speaker 1: years and then obviously in two we saw a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge draw down just you know, similar to what we

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Speaker 1: saw with other cryptocurrencies, but their shares just absolutely plummeted,

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Speaker 1: and I think the market was trying to suss out

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Speaker 1: exactly how much exposure they had or how exactly they

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Speaker 1: were going to be impacted by all of the different

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Speaker 1: you know blow ups, the ones that we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about today on on this episode, and so recently they

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Speaker 1: actually they told in messers, they came out and said

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Speaker 1: earlier this month that they had planned to fire something

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Speaker 1: like fort of the bank's staff and that they saw

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Speaker 1: a huge surge in people looking to withdraw, uh, take

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Speaker 1: their money out of silver Gate, and so that's what's

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Speaker 1: been some of the trouble that's been facing this company.

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Speaker 1: But yes, we saw this maybe um peculiar or interesting

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Speaker 1: we can call it reaction in share price, but we

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Speaker 1: tend to see stuff like that happen all the time,

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Speaker 1: where maybe, uh, the company's shares react in the opposite

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Speaker 1: way of what you might think. Analysts might tell you

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Speaker 1: that already the drawdown had been so so huge that

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Speaker 1: you would assume maybe a bounce back would be coming

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Speaker 1: at some point, but yeah, it's very interesting to follow

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Speaker 1: what's going on with the bank because it does give

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Speaker 1: you sort of um a read on on the industry

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Speaker 1: as well. Thank you, Anna and Will Donna. This was

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Anna Arera and Bill Donna Rich. You can find

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Speaker 1: more of their reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal and on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to check out

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Speaker 1: our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto,

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Speaker 1: Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show

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Speaker 1: to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin.

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Speaker 1: producers are Ty Butler and Moses on Them. Raphael M.

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Speaker 1: Seeley is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrin. I'm Stacy,

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Speaker 1: Marie Ishmael. Have a great weekend.