Speaker 1: On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey Jamie, Hey, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: seize your moment. You know, I know you've been wanting
Speaker 1: to play music and that's your secret passion, and I
Speaker 1: think you should just go for seize your moment. And
Speaker 1: who cares what your family says. I'm the dog Dante
Speaker 1: by the way, Wow, that's exciting. Well, I love Dante.
Speaker 1: I want a Dante at my house. I love Dante
Speaker 1: so much. I know, he's one of my favorite Pixar
Speaker 1: Disney animal familiars in many moons, and he doesn't even
Speaker 1: need to talk. I always feel like I'm like, whenever
Speaker 1: a Disney animal companions so good they don't even need
Speaker 1: to speak, You're like, that's a that's a heavy heater. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dante's in the Hall of Fame. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast.
Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Darante, my name is Jamie Loftus,
Speaker 1: and this is our podcast where we take a look
Speaker 1: at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens with
Speaker 1: some of our favorite people in the world, and we
Speaker 1: do that using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off
Speaker 1: point for discussion, which I simply don't remember. What is that, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: I'll remind you. It's been it's been half We've been
Speaker 1: doing the show for half a decade, and yet what
Speaker 1: even is it? Well, it's always changing and growing, and
Speaker 1: our version of it these days fluid. Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: very fluid. So it's a media metric created by queer
Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Becktel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, in
Speaker 1: which our version is two people of a marginalized gender
Speaker 1: have to have names, they must speak to each other
Speaker 1: about something other than a man for at least two
Speaker 1: lines of dialogue, and ideally that conversation is narratively important
Speaker 1: and not just like hey Judy, you know, hey Sally,
Speaker 1: you know when you hear it, when you hear it,
Speaker 1: meaning full exchange, you're like, Okay, something happened there, yea.
Speaker 1: And we have a very popular request on the show
Speaker 1: today with a very popularly requested guest. She's been on
Speaker 1: the show many, many times, and the movie is Coco,
Speaker 1: and the guest is if you clicked. You already know.
Speaker 1: But Caitlyn give us the give us the rentdown. She's
Speaker 1: a writer, she's an actress. You remember her from our
Speaker 1: episodes on tomb Raider and The Adams Family. It's Danny Fernandez.
Speaker 1: Welcome back for having me. God, thanks for coming back.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that y'all had me watched this movie earlier,
Speaker 1: Like I just haven't watched it in like a year,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I needed a reason to cry
Speaker 1: than all of the other reasons that we have to cry. Right,
Speaker 1: it felt good though. I could feel it coming on
Speaker 1: and I just let it take over. I was like,
Speaker 1: that feels good. Sometimes you just need that sweet Coco
Speaker 1: cry release really, Like it's no matter how many times
Speaker 1: you see certain parts coming Like last night, I was like,
Speaker 1: I've seen this movie before at this point, like I
Speaker 1: I'm going to be able to compartmentalize through this part
Speaker 1: and I've never been successful. Wrong, wrong, wrong, I didn't
Speaker 1: like hydrate properly before watching like the whole thing. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh. So Danny, what's your relationship and history and
Speaker 1: all that with Coco. Well, it's uh, you know, representative
Speaker 1: of my family and background, my families from Mexico and um,
Speaker 1: actually have a big I'll have to send you guys
Speaker 1: a picture so that you can share it if you
Speaker 1: want to. But I have a big Coco guitar that
Speaker 1: has like painting of of like the characters from Coco.
Speaker 1: It's really beautiful. It's actually one of my favorite is
Speaker 1: of art that I own because you can see I
Speaker 1: also have art of other Disney art and stuff behind me.
Speaker 1: But um, I don't know, I have so many different
Speaker 1: launching points into this. One thing is that I I
Speaker 1: sent y'all also a video of my niece reading the
Speaker 1: Coco book, like the Golden Book. Yeah, And so it
Speaker 1: was so funny because we didn't really feel like we had,
Speaker 1: you know, as far as representation goes, like before this,
Speaker 1: we had Mowanna and so that was around the time
Speaker 1: that she was born and she was like one or
Speaker 1: two and mo Wanna came out, and so we're getting
Speaker 1: her all Mahanna stuff. We just wanted anything that kind
Speaker 1: of looked like her to have, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And so I think on her second birthday was like
Speaker 1: all Mohanna stuff. Want what she still has? She like
Speaker 1: loves her Ma Wanna dolls. And then Coco came out,
Speaker 1: and I was like, great, I have something from her culture,
Speaker 1: from her background that we can we can help, you know,
Speaker 1: teach her. Uh So then I got her the Coco guitar,
Speaker 1: like the White famous like guitar hab she can play on.
Speaker 1: My brother has pictures of him like playing guitar for
Speaker 1: her when he would like, um, play her to like
Speaker 1: to sleep, and so like it was just I don't know,
Speaker 1: I felt like so many different intersections. I'm also pretty um,
Speaker 1: pretty open about having issues in my own family and
Speaker 1: not being close with certain people in my family, and
Speaker 1: so like I really related to that aspect of of
Speaker 1: the movie. Um. And then we also have an a
Speaker 1: friend at my brother has that he taught my niece
Speaker 1: and nephew and so we have our our deceased relatives
Speaker 1: on there and it has candles and like they've they've
Speaker 1: taught their kids, you know about that and so yeah,
Speaker 1: so so it was it was great. You know, before this,
Speaker 1: we had the Book of Life by Jorge Gautierrez and
Speaker 1: and she also has that movie in that book as well.
Speaker 1: And so the more representation, the more stories around this
Speaker 1: that we can tell, I think is is really important.
Speaker 1: But I personally just felt very happy that this existed
Speaker 1: so that we could pass this in my family. Oh
Speaker 1: that's so wonderful, beautiful a little bit, Jamie. What's your
Speaker 1: relationship with Coco? Uh? Pretty simple. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: I've seen it several times. It makes me cry every time,
Speaker 1: and I take a lot of joy in it. It
Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm not of Mexican descent at all,
Speaker 1: and I might think my my knowledge and my just
Speaker 1: experience of an understanding of Dia del Maritas and I
Speaker 1: think very like basic aspects of Mexican culture. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just don't know enough basically, and I think that
Speaker 1: this a lot of what this movie does. Although there
Speaker 1: is some criticism that we'll get into as well, but
Speaker 1: like I I've learned from this movie too. And then
Speaker 1: the way that Coco kind of ingratiates Mexican culture into
Speaker 1: the plot in a way that is very natural is
Speaker 1: like I wish that this movie had existed when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, But yeah, true, but I'm glad it
Speaker 1: exists when I'm an adult. It's great, totally. I was
Speaker 1: just talking about this with a shout out to my
Speaker 1: Spanish tutor Adriana, who I have a whole segment from
Speaker 1: her because she was born and raised and grew up
Speaker 1: and lived most of her life in Mexico, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to get her thoughts on it. So she shared
Speaker 1: a lot of insight that all I will share later.
Speaker 1: But um, I was saying, like I didn't learn about
Speaker 1: Dia delusmortos until I mean, I took Spanish in high
Speaker 1: school and learned about it then. But you know, I
Speaker 1: spent so many years like not knowing so much about
Speaker 1: so many cultures because well, one, the American education system
Speaker 1: did not expose me too much of anything, and to
Speaker 1: all the movies I was exposed to were just about
Speaker 1: white people, white Americans. So I was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: really wish I had this movie growing up two just
Speaker 1: for the sake of like I could have learned a thing.
Speaker 1: But same, I love this movie. I saw it in
Speaker 1: theaters I think twice. I've seen it several times since then.
Speaker 1: This movie makes me cry, cry cry. I teach it
Speaker 1: in my screenwriting classes. Also, Like there's a segment I
Speaker 1: do in world building that I have my students like
Speaker 1: read a trunk of the script and then we watch
Speaker 1: that and like see how it translates from the page
Speaker 1: to the screen, and there's just like I love this movie,
Speaker 1: so I'm excited to talk about it. Um, should we
Speaker 1: get into the recap and just go from there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it as per usual. Let's do it. I
Speaker 1: was just saying, how I think this is the longest
Speaker 1: recap I've ever written on the show. Can't wait, just
Speaker 1: because like, this story is so good and it's like complicated,
Speaker 1: but not in a way that it's like overwhelming or
Speaker 1: like confusing or anything like that. It's just like so
Speaker 1: rich and there's just so much detail I didn't want
Speaker 1: to leave out, so bear with me. But um, here
Speaker 1: we go. So we get some backstory about the rivera
Speaker 1: family where long ago there was a musician who had
Speaker 1: a wife and a daughter, and one day the man
Speaker 1: left with his guitar and never returned. So the mother,
Speaker 1: the woman, banished all music from her life became a shoemaker,
Speaker 1: which she passed down to several generations of her family.
Speaker 1: That woman was Miguel's great great grandmother, Emelda, and her
Speaker 1: daughter is Miguel's great grandma Coco. And then Miguel's family
Speaker 1: tells this story every year on El Dia de los Mortos,
Speaker 1: so then we meet Miguel. He's a young twelve year
Speaker 1: old boy in Mexico. The rest of his family, you know,
Speaker 1: his mom, his dad, aunt and uncles, his grandma, and
Speaker 1: his great grandma Coco. We meet them on screen. They
Speaker 1: are all still very anti music. But Miguel has a secret.
Speaker 1: He loves music. He plays the guitar. He worships Ernesto
Speaker 1: de la Cruz, who was a famous musician back in
Speaker 1: the day. And Miguel loves his song entitled Remember Me
Speaker 1: Secretly Loving Music has to be like the sweetest rebellion ever.
Speaker 1: It's such a fascinating like when as writers, I'm like
Speaker 1: always thinking of like it's such a fascinating plot. You know,
Speaker 1: You're like, how are we going to make a movie
Speaker 1: about this holiday? And like what can we do? And
Speaker 1: let's have his whole family hate music, but he loves it.
Speaker 1: It's such a good It's like such a classic Disney setup.
Speaker 1: It feels like of like know this then the you know,
Speaker 1: like the Little Mermaid, like all she wants to do
Speaker 1: is go to the shore, and her whole family is like, no,
Speaker 1: that's an abomination. I wrote that down to where it
Speaker 1: felt like I mean and obviously like the stories are
Speaker 1: very different. But like when appolita Um smashes Miguel's guitar
Speaker 1: spoiler alert, I was like, well, King Triton ruining the garrotto.
Speaker 1: It's like same, same, devastating, like how could you? I
Speaker 1: thought I could trust you energy. So that night, there's
Speaker 1: a music talent competition for Dia de los Mortos in
Speaker 1: Miguel's town's plaza and Miguel wants to sign up, but
Speaker 1: his family is like no way. But then Miguel discovers
Speaker 1: from a photograph on his family's o frienda that his
Speaker 1: great great grandfather was Ernesto de la Cruz. His face
Speaker 1: has been torn off of the photo, but Miguel recognizes
Speaker 1: his famous guitar, so he decides to seize his moment
Speaker 1: and enter the talent competition. But his grandma finds out
Speaker 1: what he's doing and he's that's the scene where she
Speaker 1: smashes his guitar. So then Miguel goes to de la
Speaker 1: Cruz's mausoleum to borrow the guitar there, but when he
Speaker 1: strums on the guitar, it transports him from his living
Speaker 1: state to a kind of like apparition in which he
Speaker 1: cannot be seen by the living, but can be seen
Speaker 1: by all of the dead people who have crossed over
Speaker 1: to the Land of the living for Diadels mortals. This
Speaker 1: sequence is so beautiful and well done, Like it's one
Speaker 1: of there are so many amazingly animated scenes in this movie,
Speaker 1: but the one where it's so seamless and it's I
Speaker 1: feel like it also like you you're so put into
Speaker 1: Miguel's shoes of like it's a little jarring and confusing,
Speaker 1: and then you realize what's going on, and uh, that
Speaker 1: sequence is just like so well paced and animated. I
Speaker 1: love it absolutely so. Then he runs into his dead ancestors,
Speaker 1: including his Tia Rosita, Tia Victoria, Papa Julio, TiO Oscar,
Speaker 1: or in TiO Philippe, who bring him across the bridge
Speaker 1: to the Land of the Dead, which is this huge,
Speaker 1: beautiful city where everyone's dead family and ancestors live. It's
Speaker 1: also full of alabris, which are spirit animals. And then
Speaker 1: they go through this like customs type thing where Miguel
Speaker 1: sees a dead skeleton guy trying to cross into the
Speaker 1: Land of the living, but he can't because his photo
Speaker 1: isn't on anyone's a frienda. So then the family finds
Speaker 1: Mama Emelda, who couldn't cross over to the Land of
Speaker 1: the Living because Miguel had taken her photo off of
Speaker 1: his family's a FRIENDA. Then Miguel learns that he needs
Speaker 1: his family's blessing to be able to cross back over
Speaker 1: to the Land of the living, but he has to
Speaker 1: do so by sunrise or else he will turn into
Speaker 1: a skeleton and be stuck in the Land of the
Speaker 1: dead forever. More. Little Mermaid vines, yeah, yeah, you have
Speaker 1: three days, says Ursula. Yeah. So then Mama Emelda gives
Speaker 1: Miguel her blessing to return home, but with the condition
Speaker 1: that he never play music again, since she was like
Speaker 1: the original like no music lady, she invented the foot
Speaker 1: loose rules to the family exactly, but the second Miguel
Speaker 1: is transported back, he picks up de la Cruz's guitar
Speaker 1: and is immediately transported back to the Land of the
Speaker 1: Dead because he broke his promise. So then Miguel gets
Speaker 1: the idea to get his blessing from Ernesto de la
Speaker 1: Cruz since they're related, so that Miguel can return home
Speaker 1: and still play music. So Miguel sneaks away from his
Speaker 1: family and sets off with a street dog named Dante,
Speaker 1: who had also crossed over to the land of the dead.
Speaker 1: Because dogs are just transient beings who can cross dimensions.
Speaker 1: I think that that is like a tradition that's like
Speaker 1: rooted in real mythology too, of like dogs as yeah,
Speaker 1: like intermediaries between the living and the dead. Mm So,
Speaker 1: then Miguel sets off to find Ernesto de la Cruz.
Speaker 1: So Miguel comes across that guy who saw at the
Speaker 1: customs section who he overhears saying that he knows de
Speaker 1: la Cruz. This is Hector, voiced by Gael Garcia. Brnow,
Speaker 1: by the way, who is my number one celebrity crush?
Speaker 1: Is it? Yes? I don't see you tweeting about him enough? Then,
Speaker 1: well are you trying to keep it on the I
Speaker 1: feel like anytime someone has a celebrity crush, like I know,
Speaker 1: I just do you all know who mine is? Tell us? Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say yes, of course.
Speaker 1: I feel like when you say it, I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: I've seen those tweets. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I feel
Speaker 1: like this is in line with this. It's Selmahiac. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've tweeted yeah about her. I try
Speaker 1: to be chill though, because I feel like, not that
Speaker 1: we all know each other, but we're kind of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like adjacent. There's six degrees element. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah for sure. And I know someone I think I
Speaker 1: haven't told. I've told this story before another podcast, but
Speaker 1: I guess not on this one. But I like the
Speaker 1: New Bachelorette was like thirty five or something shocking horrible old,
Speaker 1: and somebody tweeted that essentially like oh she's thirty five,
Speaker 1: and I said, some hikes fifty five and I would
Speaker 1: ruin my life for her. And I didn't tag her
Speaker 1: because again, like we're professional, we all work in this
Speaker 1: business together. And somebody sent it to her though, because
Speaker 1: she screamshot it. She put it on Instagram, not just
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and like found me and tagged me and
Speaker 1: was like thank you. Danny was like, I was like,
Speaker 1: I would ruin my life for her, and she was like,
Speaker 1: thank you, Danny. I'm like, I'm going to do this
Speaker 1: for Gail because I don't, like, I don't tweet about
Speaker 1: really anything, um except for Paddington. That's true. That's true,
Speaker 1: but I mean, like, I don't like when people tag that.
Speaker 1: I just think it's and well, it's especially we were
Speaker 1: just because we we were like you know a lot
Speaker 1: of us work on different shows and movies and like,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, Like that's very awkward and I never
Speaker 1: wanted to be like weird, so I don't ever tag them.
Speaker 1: But if you found it on your own, that's not
Speaker 1: my fault. That's very good. I mean, this ship have
Speaker 1: I mean not to shout it out once an episode,
Speaker 1: but Alfred Molina was on the podcast. These things do happen,
Speaker 1: I know, Selman, I will have our moment our. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta start thirst tweeting more. I love. I love
Speaker 1: when a thirst tweet leads to something beautiful. That's nice. Alright,
Speaker 1: Well this is my cue to send out more thirst tweets.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's stopped. The stakes are low. I'm
Speaker 1: barely in the industry, so I don't even have to
Speaker 1: worry about like professionalism here. So um, okay, where were we?
Speaker 1: So we see Hector again and he and Miguel make
Speaker 1: a deal. If Hector helps Miguel find de la Cruz,
Speaker 1: then Miguel will put up Hector's photo On and a
Speaker 1: friend to when he returns to the Land of the Living,
Speaker 1: so that Hector can cross over and see his family,
Speaker 1: which he hasn't been able to do for quite some time.
Speaker 1: Miguel learns that De la Cruz is hosting a very
Speaker 1: exclusive party that night, and that the winner of this
Speaker 1: talent competition that's happening gets to play at this exclusive party,
Speaker 1: So Miguel and Hector set off to find a guitar.
Speaker 1: This is also the scene where Miguel meets Freda Carlo
Speaker 1: and has a fun interaction with her. Then Hector takes
Speaker 1: Miguel to a place where dead people who don't have
Speaker 1: families or people to visit in the Land of the Living,
Speaker 1: they all kind of have formed this community, and we
Speaker 1: learned that if enough time passes, these kind of forgotten
Speaker 1: people will fade away and eventually disappear forever and have
Speaker 1: their what they call it a final death, which is
Speaker 1: illustrated through like the saddest scene ever committed. So we
Speaker 1: see this with this guy Chon who's voiced by Edward
Speaker 1: James almost by the way, So Hector borrows a guitar
Speaker 1: from him. He is fading and then we see him
Speaker 1: like die his final death. We also learn in this
Speaker 1: scene that Hector was a former musician and that Hector
Speaker 1: is also fading because his family in the Land of
Speaker 1: the Living is forgetting him. The plant and payoff of
Speaker 1: this movie is so good, like the screenwriting is absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1: So with the guitar, they head to this talent competition
Speaker 1: and Miguel performs, but Miguel's skeleton family, who has been
Speaker 1: chasing after him this whole time, shows up to this show,
Speaker 1: and this is where Hector learns that Miguel does have
Speaker 1: other family who could give their blessing and send him
Speaker 1: back to the Land of the Living. So he's like,
Speaker 1: why am I trying to help you find d La Cruz.
Speaker 1: So then Miguel runs away but bumps into Mamma Emelda,
Speaker 1: who reveals that she used to love music, but of
Speaker 1: course that changed when her husband left, and Miguel is like,
Speaker 1: you you should understand and support my passion for music,
Speaker 1: and she's like no, so then he runs away. Miguel
Speaker 1: is a very emotionally intelligent kid. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I was firing off ship like that when
Speaker 1: I was twelve, right, He's great not to be like
Speaker 1: I was so emotionally intelligent, but like I have, I
Speaker 1: have like diaries of mine from that time, and I
Speaker 1: was so angsty and just thought I was like so
Speaker 1: smart and I don't know, like I just I definitely
Speaker 1: was very I was like a very emotional twelve year
Speaker 1: old for sure. That's great. I was very emotionally. I
Speaker 1: was just always repressing all of my emotions, which I
Speaker 1: do to this day very healthily, I think I was.
Speaker 1: I just had like O c D, like true O
Speaker 1: c D notebook full of I would write down what
Speaker 1: everybody was wearing around me at all times because I
Speaker 1: thought I would die if I didn't do that. And
Speaker 1: then I would also write about my crushes for four
Speaker 1: to five hundred pages at that time. My god, so
Speaker 1: there was more volume. There wasn't a lot of quality, hilarious, gosh. Anyways,
Speaker 1: Miguel is is very in touch with his his emotional
Speaker 1: needs and understands adults better than uh, certainly I ever
Speaker 1: did for sure. So then we see Miguel sneak into
Speaker 1: Ernesto de la Cruz's party. Miguel finds him and tells
Speaker 1: him that he is de la Cruz's great great grandson,
Speaker 1: which de La Cruz thinks is awesome, and he is
Speaker 1: about to give his blessing to Miguel to go back
Speaker 1: home and be a musician, but just then Hector shows
Speaker 1: up and reveals that all of de la Cruz's songs
Speaker 1: were actually Hector's and that Ernesto the Cruise stole them,
Speaker 1: And then we get this flashback that reveals that the
Speaker 1: La Cruz poisoned Hector so that he could steal his songs. Twist,
Speaker 1: What a what a twist. I remember the first time
Speaker 1: watching that being like it really gets you, I know.
Speaker 1: I was just like, wait, this movie is for babies,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know that was gonna happen. This movies
Speaker 1: for baby. That's the thing about Pixar movies, though, is
Speaker 1: that like, yeah, the target audiences children, but they're also
Speaker 1: like so well written that all ages can. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: but I have to say on behalf of Brad Bird
Speaker 1: that the target audience is family. Is everyone? That's yes,
Speaker 1: that's true. Sorry, no, I'm sorry, Pixar director Bradbird. It's
Speaker 1: very adamant that these are not for children. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Bradbird. I'm just a single adults. I don't
Speaker 1: know what constitutes a family. Okay, Brad Bird, your your
Speaker 1: statement still doesn't include me somehow. No, I feel like
Speaker 1: he would think that you were a fan like you.
Speaker 1: You complete yourself, Jamie, Yeah, you are a family with
Speaker 1: Bird would feel that way. I am my own family unit.
Speaker 1: Please and yeah, exactly, And that's why I feel entitled
Speaker 1: to watch The Incredibles two whenever I want. Exactly, I'm
Speaker 1: more of an incredible as one. I'm sorry, but that's
Speaker 1: that's quite a correct answer. You're right, okay. So then
Speaker 1: de la Cruz has Hector and Miguel taken away by
Speaker 1: security and thrown into a cave, where we get another
Speaker 1: big reveal that Hector's daughter. The reason he wants to
Speaker 1: cross back over is Coco a k a. Miguel's great
Speaker 1: grandmother a k a. Hector, not Ernesto de la Cruz
Speaker 1: is Miguel's great great grandfather, and Hector wrote the song
Speaker 1: Remember Me for Coco. Then Mama Emailda shows up with
Speaker 1: her Alibrique and rescues Miguel and Hector. Hector tells her
Speaker 1: what happened that you know, he didn't leave her, he
Speaker 1: was murdered, and she's like, um, yeah, I guess. But
Speaker 1: I still can't forgive you, but she does want to
Speaker 1: help him not be forgotten. I do like that. It
Speaker 1: kind of like turns into like the last act of
Speaker 1: a rom com. Once they're once they very unite to
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, these two kids figure it out.
Speaker 1: You're kind of like, I don't know, let's see right. Um.
Speaker 1: So they head back to dela Cruz's place to get
Speaker 1: Hector's photo back because de la Cruz had stolen it. Um.
Speaker 1: They find him backstage right before his big concert and
Speaker 1: they get back the photo. But then Mama Emelda is
Speaker 1: like accidentally gets sent to the stage in front of
Speaker 1: thousands of people, and she has no choice but to
Speaker 1: sing and perform, and in so doing, she rediscovers her
Speaker 1: of of music and then is about to give Miguel
Speaker 1: her blessing free of any conditions. But then de la
Speaker 1: Cruz shows back up and tries to murder Miguel, but
Speaker 1: it's all caught on video, so everyone at the show
Speaker 1: learns that De la Cruz is a fraud and a murderer.
Speaker 1: Mama Emelda's Labrique saves Miguel, but Hector's photo is lost,
Speaker 1: so now Miguel can't put it on the frienda and
Speaker 1: Hector is dying because Coco is forgetting him, and it's
Speaker 1: almost sunrise, so the family has to quickly give their
Speaker 1: blessing and send Miguel back to the land of the living.
Speaker 1: So now that he's back, Miguel rushes to Mama Coco
Speaker 1: and tries to get her to remember her Papa Hector.
Speaker 1: He starts singing remember Me, which gets Coco to remember,
Speaker 1: and she starts singing along, and everyone's crying, crying, crying,
Speaker 1: are balling our eyes out. I remember I was at
Speaker 1: a screening and there was a mom with like three
Speaker 1: boys there. I was like, oh man, she must be
Speaker 1: like a mommy block. I mean, who brings like so
Speaker 1: many children into it pr screening or whatever. And I
Speaker 1: just remember the kid being like, Mom, why are you crying? Mom?
Speaker 1: Why are you crying? Like you know when kids like
Speaker 1: don't quite like grasp something. And she was just like
Speaker 1: full blown, like sniffling in the theater. I remember he
Speaker 1: kept like pulling on her sleeve like. So Miguel and
Speaker 1: Mama Coco were singing together, and Miguel's living family is
Speaker 1: there and sees Miguel playing music, but they see how
Speaker 1: much Coco responds to it, so they're like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: maybe music is actually a good thing. And then Coco
Speaker 1: takes out her photo of her papa and it is
Speaker 1: confirmed that it is Hector. So then we cut to
Speaker 1: a year later. The next day de Losmortos, the photo
Speaker 1: of Emelda and Hector is on the al frienda, as
Speaker 1: is Coco's. Apparently she had passed away at some point
Speaker 1: during the last year. In the Land of the Dead, Emelda, Hector,
Speaker 1: and Coco are all united. They cross over and visit
Speaker 1: their family. In the Land of the Living. Micguil is
Speaker 1: playing music for his family. Everyone's happy, everyone's together. I'm
Speaker 1: crying more. And the movie is over. So that's the story.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we will come
Speaker 1: back to discuss and we're back. Where shall we begin.
Speaker 1: There's there's so much to talk about here. Yeah, Danny,
Speaker 1: do you have any place you want to kind of
Speaker 1: jump off from? No. I just wanted to make a
Speaker 1: note that my favorite part of this movie is when
Speaker 1: Coco is reunited with her parents and she's still old,
Speaker 1: and it's like so sweet because they just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's our Coco, and they like pick her up and
Speaker 1: it's just like It's funny because you never think of
Speaker 1: like your kids being older than you, I guess or whatever.
Speaker 1: And that's just like how she was when she went
Speaker 1: to the afterlife. And it was just really really sweet
Speaker 1: for them to just like love her even like that,
Speaker 1: like to just like unconditional love. It was I just
Speaker 1: wanted that noted that that was my favorite part. Of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I loved that too. Every part of this movie just
Speaker 1: like tugs at my heart strings. Also, his dad, I
Speaker 1: actually tweeted and I, okay, so Miguel's dad, there's there's
Speaker 1: like a picture, I'll send it to y'all. He like
Speaker 1: has his arms wrapped around Miguel's mom. And I did
Speaker 1: that picture, and then I did a picture of Gomez
Speaker 1: loving on more Tisha, and I tweeted and I said, God,
Speaker 1: I see what you have done for others. So if
Speaker 1: you could please, I would love I mean, if not Selma, hi,
Speaker 1: I would love a Latino king to like love on me.
Speaker 1: I think I deserve to be adored and loved and like,
Speaker 1: please send me my Latino king. Thank you. Uh. They're
Speaker 1: his parents are very very sweet. I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: this movie is so stacked with characters that it's like
Speaker 1: I didn't like Sure, I guess I wish that we
Speaker 1: knew Miguel's parents a little better. But I also feel
Speaker 1: like this movie takes given, you know, whatever the restrictions
Speaker 1: of the time they have. I like that the older
Speaker 1: characters are prioritized, and like the older women in particular
Speaker 1: are prioritized in this movie, where you know, we get
Speaker 1: to see a kid who lives in a multi generational home.
Speaker 1: You don't get that a lot in children's media at all.
Speaker 1: You're usually stuck in the same, you know, upper middle class,
Speaker 1: white suburb. But Miguel lives in a multi generational home.
Speaker 1: And then we focus mostly on his grandmother is his Abulita,
Speaker 1: and then also on Coco, who is It seems, you know,
Speaker 1: she's her memory is not all there, and she needs
Speaker 1: help and her daughter helps her a lot. But I
Speaker 1: just I loved that, given all the characters this movie
Speaker 1: could have focused on, they prioritize the older matriarchs of
Speaker 1: of the family along with Mama. Emaileda to like that,
Speaker 1: like oncee Miguel crosses over to the Land of the Dead,
Speaker 1: like she's very clearly like the matriarch, She's in charge,
Speaker 1: She's making all of the family decisions. Also Coco like,
Speaker 1: because Latina's don't age the same as everyone else, she
Speaker 1: has to be at least five hundred for her to
Speaker 1: have all those wrinkles. I'm like, Okay, she's been around
Speaker 1: for she's at least five hundred years old. Well, and
Speaker 1: we'll we'll get into this. I mean, I love this
Speaker 1: movie so much. Most of the problems or like, most
Speaker 1: of the things that any grapes I have, are with
Speaker 1: Disney's conduct surrounding the movie, which we'll get into. I'm
Speaker 1: very curious what I'll so to get into what you're
Speaker 1: u because I'm Chicana, so I grew up here in
Speaker 1: the States, and so like, I'm very curious about people
Speaker 1: who actually were born and raised in Mexico who how
Speaker 1: they came out there first, actually before it dropped here,
Speaker 1: they got it a little bit earlier than we did.
Speaker 1: So I'm very curious because it, you know, took place
Speaker 1: there in Mexico. And so I always consider us like
Speaker 1: kind of in the in between where I wrote about
Speaker 1: this and the Good Immigrant this book, where I wrote
Speaker 1: an essay in it where it kind of feels like
Speaker 1: we definitely don't fit in here in the in the US,
Speaker 1: but we're also kind of removed from growing up in Mexico,
Speaker 1: so it kind of it kind of just feels like
Speaker 1: we're in this weird in between space. So I'm very
Speaker 1: curious about people who who grew up there, how how
Speaker 1: they resonated with with this portrayal. Sure well, let me
Speaker 1: share what Adriana Ortega, my Spanish tutor, and Adriana hi
Speaker 1: wonderful person all around, she had had this to say.
Speaker 1: As a Mexican born and raised in Mexico, I can
Speaker 1: say Coco is considered a Mexican movie. Since it came out,
Speaker 1: we started seeing Coco Pinata's labriquets and crafts, and then
Speaker 1: Adriana included a bunch of photos of like Coco guitars
Speaker 1: and costumes and just like things sold in Mexico from
Speaker 1: the movie. She says, the mariachi's at parties started playing
Speaker 1: the songs from the soundtrack as if they existed forever.
Speaker 1: She also included a YouTube link with a medley of
Speaker 1: traditional Mexican songs with Poco Loco um, which is one
Speaker 1: of the songs that Miguel plays in the movie. Um
Speaker 1: will share a link to that and people in general
Speaker 1: We're happy to see Mexico represented not as a place
Speaker 1: of crime and poverty, but as a source of culture
Speaker 1: and traditions interesting to the world. I'm personally obsessed with
Speaker 1: the movie, and I can't watch it without sobbing like
Speaker 1: a baby, no matter how many times I've watched it before.
Speaker 1: The movie is so well done that even little details
Speaker 1: like the way the town where the characters live looks
Speaker 1: and feels and the family dynamics show that clearly Mexicans
Speaker 1: were involved in the project. A clear example is the
Speaker 1: way all family decisions have to be approved by the matriarch.
Speaker 1: I lived it when my grandma was alive, and she
Speaker 1: didn't approve of something. Doing that thing was an act
Speaker 1: of rebellion. On the other side, as someone who works
Speaker 1: with people in Mexico who lived undocumented in the United States,
Speaker 1: I must point out what I don't like about Coco.
Speaker 1: The way transit between the world of the living and
Speaker 1: the dead resembles the Department of Homeland Security controls for
Speaker 1: undocumented people and even for people with documents entering the
Speaker 1: US is a nightmare. Every Mexican that has ever come
Speaker 1: to the US has a horror story about Homeland Security.
Speaker 1: Depending on their privilege, the color of their skin and
Speaker 1: their papers. Those stories are different, but many times they're
Speaker 1: at least unpleasant. I think the creators of Coco could
Speaker 1: have found way to create conflict for the character of
Speaker 1: Hector without implying that the Department of Homeland Security and
Speaker 1: similar controls are a quote necessary evil instead of a
Speaker 1: very deliberate evil created to discriminate against foreigners, especially if
Speaker 1: they're brown. Um. And then when I spoke with Adriana today, Um,
Speaker 1: she just had a couple other insights, saying that she
Speaker 1: only watches the movie in Spanish with like the Spanish dub,
Speaker 1: which she says is like really really good. Not all
Speaker 1: movies dubbed in Spanish are well done as far as
Speaker 1: the dubbing, but she said the Cocoa one is very
Speaker 1: very good. The actors and just like people that they
Speaker 1: hired to do the dub are like just this slate
Speaker 1: of like all star actors, iconic people in general from
Speaker 1: Mexican culture. She was really impressed with the Spanish dub.
Speaker 1: And then finally she said that um so el Dia
Speaker 1: Delersmortos is more commonly celebrated in southern Mexico, especially in
Speaker 1: the state of Mito Kan in Mexico, and Miguel's village
Speaker 1: was inspired by a town called pats Quaro, So this
Speaker 1: is kind of just like where Dia de los Mortos
Speaker 1: was more commonly celebrated in Mexico until this movie came out.
Speaker 1: In different other parts of Mexico, it was not a
Speaker 1: super important holiday, but Adriana said that after this movie,
Speaker 1: the holiday grew in popularity pretty significantly around all of
Speaker 1: Mexico where it is now like because because of this movie,
Speaker 1: like art influencing culture kind of thing, the holiday is
Speaker 1: much more widely celebrated throughout the country. So all that's cool,
Speaker 1: I know, right, It is interesting because I feel like
Speaker 1: we've at least here in um southern California, and there's
Speaker 1: always been like a big celebration at least since I've
Speaker 1: lived here that we have here in l A. And
Speaker 1: so that's fascinating. Though. I also figured that the cast
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the castes overlap because they
Speaker 1: purposely had people who could speak Spanish and sing in
Speaker 1: Spanish as the leads. So I feel like that's probably
Speaker 1: wise because they're great actors. They were doing both the
Speaker 1: English version and the Spanish version for sure. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: Coco is the first motion picture with a nine figure budget,
Speaker 1: which is the budget of this movie is humongous, but
Speaker 1: it also grossed way more money. I mean it's like,
Speaker 1: I feel like this is kind of on par for
Speaker 1: Pixar movie budgets too. Well, it took them like six
Speaker 1: years to make this. Yeah. So it's the first motion
Speaker 1: picture with a nine figure budget to feature and all
Speaker 1: Latino like major cast. Um so, the principal cast of
Speaker 1: even the English language version of the movie is all
Speaker 1: Latino Latin X Latin. A. Maybe there's a conversation to
Speaker 1: be had here about what's the US language to you?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not, Kalen, absolutely not. It's a lose lose situation.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't even discuss it on podcasts anymore.
Speaker 1: I just tweeted and I said, like, because you know,
Speaker 1: it was our Heritage Month. I don't know when this
Speaker 1: is dropping, um, but I just was like happy whatever
Speaker 1: term that people are going to just obsess over instead
Speaker 1: of paying attention to my accomplishments Heritage month, because this
Speaker 1: whole month is about like propping us up and like, Wow,
Speaker 1: look at all this stuff that we're doing. Look all
Speaker 1: the stuff that I'm doing in this community, in this industry,
Speaker 1: and it's just like, but you're just going to spend
Speaker 1: the whole time arguing about like which term to use
Speaker 1: under my Twitter. So I was like, we just started, like, actually,
Speaker 1: a bunch of us writers just started to you just
Speaker 1: say Heritage month, like we didn't even label anything. And
Speaker 1: I remember people tweeting like, so we're just saying heritage month,
Speaker 1: like we won't even say the word, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just not worth it. Sure, this
Speaker 1: is also a joke. I don't please, do not write,
Speaker 1: please like totally leave Danny a lot. Yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: have to get into it. Just I guess just to
Speaker 1: say that, like where aware of the different options for
Speaker 1: the language to use, there doesn't seem to be much
Speaker 1: agreement on what is like the preferred language, so I
Speaker 1: might just kind of switch back and forth between a
Speaker 1: couple of different things. For sure, I switch back and
Speaker 1: forth between all of them. And I think the one
Speaker 1: thing that I'll say, anyone who follows me knows that,
Speaker 1: like it's so important to be inclusive. So at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I truly do not care what
Speaker 1: term we if we even make up a whole word
Speaker 1: that doesn't even that's not even a word that we've
Speaker 1: heard yet. Um, as long as people feel included, especially
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable people in our community feel because I
Speaker 1: I say this all the time, but Latina, I am
Speaker 1: a Latina and like that's I've always been represented by
Speaker 1: that term, and so I've never had to wonder what
Speaker 1: it was like to to not be represented. And so
Speaker 1: that's what I care about. But I also altern nate
Speaker 1: between all of our terms often. Sure, totally. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: just again shout out to Adriana for sharing her wonderful insights.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Adriana. She's been such a
Speaker 1: wonderful person and bechtelcast listener over the years. Um, she's
Speaker 1: the greatest. And I she pointed out, I think one
Speaker 1: of the few repeated criticisms of this movie that I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe it's just best to kind of get through the
Speaker 1: criticisms at the top of the episode and then get
Speaker 1: into what we really loved about the movie. Um, but
Speaker 1: what she mentioned about the use of the Department of
Speaker 1: Homeland Security metaphor as a way to cross between realms
Speaker 1: seemed to be that was a criticism that I saw
Speaker 1: in a bunch of places. There was a really good
Speaker 1: essay published in The Mary Sue when this movie first
Speaker 1: came out by Carla Tamis that. I mean she opens
Speaker 1: the essay by saying that that just vision triggered her
Speaker 1: as she was watching the movie and sent her back
Speaker 1: to an experience she had with her mother when crossing
Speaker 1: into the US when she was a kid, and um,
Speaker 1: it does seem to I don't know. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: curious to know what everyone thinks, because that was like
Speaker 1: one of the only things that like stuck out to
Speaker 1: me as I don't know, like I maybe understand the
Speaker 1: impulse to reference that in the movie, but I don't
Speaker 1: like how it's like, if you're going to make that
Speaker 1: decision creatively, I feel like it really needs to bear
Speaker 1: out in a productive way, and for especially for a
Speaker 1: children's movie, in an optimistic way. It's a Disney movie.
Speaker 1: But I was kind of surprised that by the end
Speaker 1: of the movie that system was very much upheld to
Speaker 1: the point where Hector goes through customs. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just feel like there wasn't a lot of criticism
Speaker 1: on that system. It was just like, well, this is
Speaker 1: the way things are, and the movie does take a
Speaker 1: in a way that I really appreciated and thought was
Speaker 1: like a very thoughtful, I don't know, like pixar deep
Speaker 1: approach to the subject of showing that the way things
Speaker 1: are done does other and it does marginalize people in
Speaker 1: the world of the Dead as well, where the people
Speaker 1: who are slowly being forgotten they live. They're kind of
Speaker 1: the underclass of this world. And by the end it's
Speaker 1: like Miguel's family has managed to navigate that system in
Speaker 1: a way and so the individuals are doing okay, but
Speaker 1: that system is still upheld in a way that feels
Speaker 1: like unusual for even like Pixar movies, where there was
Speaker 1: a there's a YouTube essay I watched about it, which
Speaker 1: you know are very hit or miss, but just even
Speaker 1: in the world of Pixar, like they are all about
Speaker 1: systems and then subverting the systems by the end of
Speaker 1: the movie, where you're like, you have whatever monsters incorporated
Speaker 1: stay with the system in that movie is we scare
Speaker 1: kids and turn it into energy. But through the character's
Speaker 1: journey they realize this is a flawed system. We need
Speaker 1: to change it to be a more you know, societally positive,
Speaker 1: less bad system and then it turns into like Billy
Speaker 1: Crystal does bad stand up at you, and then that
Speaker 1: turns into energy, like so much more efficient energy. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: but it's like that doesn't happen in Cocoa. The system doesn't.
Speaker 1: The characters go through incredibly nuanced arcs and the family
Speaker 1: goes through this huge journey, but the system is upheld
Speaker 1: in a way that is, you know, unfortunately probably true
Speaker 1: to life. But it doesn't feel like a Pixar movie.
Speaker 1: I don't know what, what did everyone think about that?
Speaker 1: To me, it feels especially weird to include in a
Speaker 1: movie that showcases Mexican culture so well by most of
Speaker 1: the accounts that I've read, to show that system that
Speaker 1: kind of like border control system in a movie about
Speaker 1: a community where that system so largely harmfully affects that community,
Speaker 1: it felt like a strange choice to me. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I would be curious to hear how Adrian Molina, who
Speaker 1: co wrote and co directed this, who is Latino his
Speaker 1: thoughts on it, because you know, kind of, like you said,
Speaker 1: like I'm not as a storyteller and as as you know,
Speaker 1: people who use things from our background, like I'm not
Speaker 1: against using something that is harmful, evil whatever, Like those
Speaker 1: elements do exist in stories, and they you know for
Speaker 1: a reason, like he like you said, like he couldn't
Speaker 1: get through, we couldn't get over, and that was harmful,
Speaker 1: you know, and so that was saying something. However, I
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying in the end is like that
Speaker 1: they upheld that as opposed to like destroying that. So
Speaker 1: but for me, though, as as a storyteller, I'm never like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to show this because this is triggering
Speaker 1: or this is upsetting. It's like it is triggering and
Speaker 1: up upsetting, and like I think sometimes that is included
Speaker 1: unfortunately in our stories is things like that. And sometimes
Speaker 1: you know, the audience which is this is you know,
Speaker 1: this is a Disney movie, so it's going to a
Speaker 1: lot of people, but for for other audiences need to
Speaker 1: see that sometimes. So I'm never like, don't ever show this.
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure why other than it was they
Speaker 1: needed a way for him to be policed saying this
Speaker 1: in quotes, like in some way to be to not
Speaker 1: be able to to to be stopped, you know, from
Speaker 1: some some type of security, some type of whatever. So
Speaker 1: I don't know the conversations that happened in that room,
Speaker 1: and I'd be very curious to hear how Adrian who
Speaker 1: did work on it, who did write this or co
Speaker 1: wrote this with Lee Anchorage, um, how he he felt
Speaker 1: and like his thoughts behind it, because I don't ever
Speaker 1: want to discredit other Latinos and they're you know, they're
Speaker 1: they're wise, and I don't I don't ever want to
Speaker 1: censor any of us from what we feel we wanted
Speaker 1: to add or needed to add. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if in the end it also all of us being writers,
Speaker 1: I know that we know that you pitch stuff and
Speaker 1: you're like, this is how I wanted to be and
Speaker 1: then that's not always how it comes out. Never. Yeah,
Speaker 1: writing on TV shows like it's so funny seeing people
Speaker 1: tweet and they'll be watching a Netflix show and this
Speaker 1: is my second Netflix show that I've written on now
Speaker 1: that I'm writing on now, and people will be like,
Speaker 1: why didn't they do this? Why didn't I don't understand
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you? And I'm like, I can guarantee you
Speaker 1: if there were ten writers, ten talented writers in that room,
Speaker 1: they probably did. They probably brought that up. They probably
Speaker 1: did say hey, let's not do this or hey, like
Speaker 1: you know they're gonna say why don't you do this?
Speaker 1: And then you don't always have the final say so,
Speaker 1: so I will just also say that as well. It's
Speaker 1: like and you and you know that, like especially like
Speaker 1: these whatever figure budget movies are noted and workshopped probably
Speaker 1: within an inch of their very lives. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I would, yeah, I would be curious to know what
Speaker 1: those conversations were. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, because
Speaker 1: it's I think you're totally right where it's like there's
Speaker 1: nothing wrong and it does feel very like Pixar house
Speaker 1: style to reference real world issues in children's stories, like
Speaker 1: that's something that they're really good at. I just yeah,
Speaker 1: I would just be curious about the conversations were about,
Speaker 1: like why it landed the way it did. I don't know. Um,
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and then we'll come back
Speaker 1: for a more discussion and we're we're back. I just
Speaker 1: want to reference I think the other well. I feel
Speaker 1: like one of the defining controversies of this movie took
Speaker 1: place I think almost four years before the movie actually
Speaker 1: came out, because Danny, as you were saying, this movie
Speaker 1: was in production for seven years. Lee Unkrich, who is
Speaker 1: a white director, pitched it in The story changed a lot.
Speaker 1: He brought in Adrian Molina, who had worked as I
Speaker 1: believe an editor in Pixar Movies, who is now on
Speaker 1: the senior creative team. And this movie was being developed
Speaker 1: for a very very long time in there was something
Speaker 1: that I remember this happening, but I just hadn't thought
Speaker 1: about it in years. But there was a I would
Speaker 1: say a very Disney scandal where I think that at
Speaker 1: one point Dia de los Morito's was the working title
Speaker 1: for this movie and Disney was attempting to trademark that
Speaker 1: phrase in two US. No one was happy about this,
Speaker 1: Like everyone was like, uh, sorry, what the fuck? So
Speaker 1: when that scandal bro there were uh I mean, there
Speaker 1: were a number of Mexican people, of Mexican American people
Speaker 1: who are all like, you cannot do that. That's that's
Speaker 1: so deeply fucked up. And that seemed to be kind
Speaker 1: of a turning point in the production of this movie,
Speaker 1: where I mean, whatever, this this is too dense a
Speaker 1: topic for a single podcast episode, but Disney has been
Speaker 1: appropriating and misrepresenting cultures for almost a century now, It's
Speaker 1: entire run. Yeah, then and you know, fumbling it almost
Speaker 1: every single time, and and it didn't seem like until
Speaker 1: when this very obvious like no, you're not going to
Speaker 1: get away with trademarking, you know, Di del Smuertos, that
Speaker 1: the production then really ramped up and began to include
Speaker 1: more Mexican and Mexican American artists and creatives in the project.
Speaker 1: Where it's I feel like that it's so often that
Speaker 1: it does feel like people are screaming into avoid online,
Speaker 1: which sometimes we are, but in this case, there there
Speaker 1: was like an actual discernible change that took place in
Speaker 1: the production of this movie because Disney tried to Disney
Speaker 1: and people weren't having it, And by all accounts, the
Speaker 1: result of that was hiring a number of Mexican and
Speaker 1: Mexican American creatives to work on the movie, which then
Speaker 1: came out four years later. But even in some of
Speaker 1: the very positive reviews of this movie, that scandal was
Speaker 1: referenced because it's just you know, so egregious. Yeah. One
Speaker 1: of those was a Mexican American editorial cartoonist, Lalo Alcorrez.
Speaker 1: What a poster. Definitely definitely know him. He I want
Speaker 1: to share a quote about this um you know, Disney
Speaker 1: trying to commercialize and appropriate the name of a holiday.
Speaker 1: He says, quote, it's just frustrating because I've spoken to
Speaker 1: some of these companies begging them to have more people
Speaker 1: of color in the legal department, behind the camera and
Speaker 1: green lighting projects, but they won't listen and not just tokens.
Speaker 1: It's got to be real. So he, you know, was
Speaker 1: very outspoken about meaningfully including people in these important creative
Speaker 1: and development decisions and just you know, any decisions that
Speaker 1: are made as far as putting a movie together. Posts
Speaker 1: these remarks, he was then hired as one of the
Speaker 1: consultants on this movie, along with Octavio Solis who's a playwright,
Speaker 1: and Marcella Davison Aveliz, who is the former CEO of
Speaker 1: the Mexican Heritage Core. So it's this group of people,
Speaker 1: along with the co director and co writer Adrian Molina,
Speaker 1: who were the people who seemed to be providing a
Speaker 1: lot of the cultural consultation that allowed for the movie
Speaker 1: to feel as authentic and for the representation as far
Speaker 1: as the culture and the people in the movie, for
Speaker 1: that representation to feel responsible and respectful. Because despite these
Speaker 1: consultants um a lot of the people who are making
Speaker 1: major creative decisions behind the movie are still non Mexican
Speaker 1: white people. Yeah, I was gonna say, it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: like I feel, you know, I feel in the past
Speaker 1: decade and I've gotten to work with Disney, you know,
Speaker 1: like I've I've you know, obviously was in a Disney movie,
Speaker 1: I've hosted with Disney. I feel like they've really taken
Speaker 1: good care of me. They also it's wild. I mean,
Speaker 1: you all follow me on Twitter. I say whatever the
Speaker 1: funk I want to at all times, and they're still like,
Speaker 1: what do you want to host this a lad in
Speaker 1: press conference with all the Disney princesses. And I'm like, sure,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to change the way. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna ever censor myself. Um, I'm always kid friendly
Speaker 1: when I'm like doing stuff with them, but like on
Speaker 1: my personal page, you know, I mean to me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: if Sarah Silverman can say whatever she wants, then like
Speaker 1: I should be able to as well. And so I
Speaker 1: have actually gotten to see that change, like I have.
Speaker 1: One of the people who worked with me on Ralph,
Speaker 1: Josie Trinidad. She was the lead storyboard artist and she
Speaker 1: also worked on his Utopia. She is now getting to
Speaker 1: direct her own. They have a slate of directors of
Speaker 1: color who are now directing their own films. Another one
Speaker 1: that I know is Carlo Slope's Astrada, who did Ryan
Speaker 1: the Last Dragon. And so like the industry as a whole,
Speaker 1: the industry as a whole is not anywhere near where
Speaker 1: it needs to be. I think, you know, we were
Speaker 1: having this conversation off air, but I still feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're very much in these boxes where Um,
Speaker 1: for me, the stuff that is easiest for me to
Speaker 1: get green lit is like this this idea of this
Speaker 1: like one big happy Latino family, Like we're all just
Speaker 1: one big happy family. That's like easy for white people
Speaker 1: to digest. You know, we don't get to play sci
Speaker 1: fi as much and fantasy as much and like, which
Speaker 1: this is to some extent like definitely, Um, but I
Speaker 1: just feel like as a whole, we don't get to
Speaker 1: play around as much as a lot of other white storytellers. Um,
Speaker 1: because I want to play in horror. I want to play,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't want anything to have to
Speaker 1: do with like I'm not even that close with a
Speaker 1: lot of members of my family you know, and like
Speaker 1: I also want to play in like queer stories and
Speaker 1: what it's like to come out and like have to
Speaker 1: have to have find your family, like found family, Like
Speaker 1: those are kind of stories that I want, I want
Speaker 1: to tell. This is all to say, I do see
Speaker 1: it changing. I see on Disney Plus with like um
Speaker 1: Diary of of a Future President, Like, I definitely do
Speaker 1: see more of us, more representation, more of us getting
Speaker 1: to tell our own stories, which I think is the
Speaker 1: most important. Not to have wallpaper, which I still feel
Speaker 1: like is a lot of a lot of places, and
Speaker 1: not saying that they don't do that, but um, just
Speaker 1: in the past decade, I have gotten to witness that,
Speaker 1: and so I'm hoping that that continues, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that you know, this also came out. What year
Speaker 1: did this? Did Coco come out? The next year we
Speaker 1: had Black Panther, And it was like, you know, allowing
Speaker 1: like the reason why it feels so authentic is, you know,
Speaker 1: to some extent, like you said, like having people like
Speaker 1: Lolo or having people like Ryan Coogler, like getting to
Speaker 1: be involved in these projects so so that it it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like wallpaper. I still feel all studios have
Speaker 1: have a ways to go, but I'm hoping that this
Speaker 1: also with the numbers with shung Chi like blew the
Speaker 1: numbers out of the water. No one I don't think
Speaker 1: was expecting to do that well allows us Unfortunately it
Speaker 1: is we're in this capitalistic society. But it makes people go, oh,
Speaker 1: we can make money telling stories with people of color. Wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: And unfortunately that you know sounds cynical, but like that's
Speaker 1: how our industry works, right, And so having the success
Speaker 1: of Coco, having the success of Black Panther, having the
Speaker 1: success of Shuan Chi and Ryan and these other ones,
Speaker 1: is allows for more of us to get into the
Speaker 1: door and be able to tell these stories. And so
Speaker 1: I'm glad that they have the slate of POC directors
Speaker 1: coming up that are that are getting to because when
Speaker 1: you see a lot of the quotes from director Lee
Speaker 1: unk Rich, who's this like, you know, Pixar Legacy guy,
Speaker 1: he either director or co directed Toy Story two and three,
Speaker 1: Monsters inc. Finding Nemo. He you know, was talking about
Speaker 1: developing and directing Coco and how he has how he
Speaker 1: had all this anxiety about making the film because he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, what we're taking on this real culture and
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm not Mexican or Latino myself. I
Speaker 1: felt this enormous responsibility on my shoulders to do it right.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, I'm glad you feel that responsible,
Speaker 1: but can you like step back and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: am I the person? Am I the best person to
Speaker 1: be directing this movie? It does feel kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, it's it's Moanna and Coco came
Speaker 1: out back to back years. Mohanna came out sixteen, Coco
Speaker 1: came out seventeen, and it does feel like this kind
Speaker 1: of like half step middle thing production wise, where it's
Speaker 1: like on Moana there were a lot of consultants brought on,
Speaker 1: but there's still these like legacy white directors and composers
Speaker 1: at the top of the project. And I think that
Speaker 1: that was improved upon in Coco because Adrian Molina clearly
Speaker 1: had such like I really enjoyed watching his press junket
Speaker 1: interviews for this movie, and like he just I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's I would I I wish he had been just
Speaker 1: you know, credited as a director, because it just seemed
Speaker 1: like he had more influence on the story just watching
Speaker 1: his interviews next to the young Witches whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is animation at a very high level, but it
Speaker 1: does seem like that thing where it's you know, there's
Speaker 1: a they had a um I wish I had his name,
Speaker 1: but they had a Mexican music consultant consulting the white composer.
Speaker 1: But ultimately the white composer gets the credit and you
Speaker 1: have to imagine a hell of a lot more money
Speaker 1: for for being consulted on on how to properly represent
Speaker 1: Mexican music. So it's like this in between place that
Speaker 1: like you were just describing Danny. Fortunately, seems like this
Speaker 1: company and a lot of companies are working their way
Speaker 1: out of of like no actually having you know, experience helps,
Speaker 1: but like having a white guy at the top of
Speaker 1: every project is going to disservice a lot of projects,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, like it's it's getting in the
Speaker 1: way and it's holding back creative freedom and resources, and
Speaker 1: like you're saying, like capital from margin allies people who
Speaker 1: will do a better job. So those elements are definitely
Speaker 1: present in this movie. But it is nice that I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's less than five years later, and that already
Speaker 1: does seem like it is indeed process of changing. Like
Speaker 1: you're saying, yeah, I don't even know if now where
Speaker 1: we're at one, like if you could do that. I
Speaker 1: don't know if they are. I haven't looked at their slate,
Speaker 1: but I don't even think that there are other their
Speaker 1: live action that I just named. You know, shan Chi
Speaker 1: had an Asian director, and Black Panther had a black director,
Speaker 1: and like that. Also we also have Captain Marvel has
Speaker 1: a black director, which is you know, the Captain Marvel two,
Speaker 1: which is very important. We should not be directing just
Speaker 1: our own stories, yes, please, we should be directing our stories,
Speaker 1: but also we can direct your stories too, because we
Speaker 1: grew up that is a lens through which all media
Speaker 1: has been told since the inception of media. So it's
Speaker 1: actually so much easier for us to write white characters
Speaker 1: because that's all of the shows, you know, the majority
Speaker 1: of television and film totally, where whereas it doesn't work
Speaker 1: the other way around. So what I'm saying is like
Speaker 1: that already feels like it's changing in the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, So I am hopeful. I don't know if
Speaker 1: they're doing I've heard so much about like a Coco too,
Speaker 1: but that was like reference and I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's like super under wraps or like, I have no
Speaker 1: it was like announced I felt at some point, or
Speaker 1: it was like leaked and then it disappeared. I just
Speaker 1: assume everything gets it too now, even though it's like
Speaker 1: I don't know Coco does. Like it's just the writing
Speaker 1: is so good that it's like I guess that you know.
Speaker 1: It's not like they left any hanging threads, but they
Speaker 1: also created this incredible universe that anyone would be happy
Speaker 1: to go back to. So I don't I hope, I hope?
Speaker 1: So um. I also, was this the Was this the
Speaker 1: project that got Robert Lopez and Kristin Anderson Lopez their egot? Like?
Speaker 1: When when did they effectively? He got there? There the
Speaker 1: songwriting and composing married couple that wrote Remember Me, and
Speaker 1: they wrote all of the Frozen songs. They're like, and
Speaker 1: I think that they started with Avenue Q. Is that right?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Yeah, the Book of Mormon and Avenue Q.
Speaker 1: I'm fans of theirs, but I think that this might
Speaker 1: have been the project where they formally got their egot
Speaker 1: because most egots are musicians and composers. Because so as
Speaker 1: we learned on that really old episode of which I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I do know that this that Remember
Speaker 1: Me won the Oscar for Best Original Song, so it's
Speaker 1: very possible. UM. I wanted to speak a little bit
Speaker 1: to co director Adrian Molino's involvement in the filmmaking where
Speaker 1: he started out in on the projects in Reception as
Speaker 1: a story artist. Um, he would like submit notes throughout
Speaker 1: that process and the people writing the script and like
Speaker 1: developing the story because this movie is I think four
Speaker 1: story by credits. They would hit roadblocks with the narrative.
Speaker 1: So at one point Adrian Malina started submitting screenplay pages
Speaker 1: just basically saying like, let me just take a crack
Speaker 1: at this. You don't you don't have to read it
Speaker 1: if you don't want to. Lee Unchorage, but I thought
Speaker 1: I'd take a stab, and then he thought like Lee
Speaker 1: Anchorage thought they were great. So then he asked Adrian
Speaker 1: to come on board as a screenwriter and he said
Speaker 1: he found himself relying more and more on Adrian's input,
Speaker 1: so eventually had him come on board as a co
Speaker 1: director as well. So he didn't even start out as
Speaker 1: like a co screenwriter and co director. It was just
Speaker 1: like his insight and his kind of continued and increasing
Speaker 1: involvement is what got him to be brought on and
Speaker 1: this greater capacity. For example, it was his idea. So
Speaker 1: the other writers were trying to figure out the mechanics
Speaker 1: of Miguel being in the land of the dead and
Speaker 1: like what he would need to do to get back
Speaker 1: to the land of the living, And it was Adrian
Speaker 1: Milina who contributed the idea that Miguel would need his
Speaker 1: family's blessing to return home, because that came from something
Speaker 1: very personal in his own life, where you know, like
Speaker 1: when he went to college, his parents offered their blessing,
Speaker 1: which is something that he like hadn't expected them to
Speaker 1: do based on, I think what he wanted to study
Speaker 1: or something. But he's like, yeah, let's what about this
Speaker 1: being an element of the story. And according to Unchorach,
Speaker 1: that part of the story quote ended up being really
Speaker 1: central and thematically on point. It helped solve some problems
Speaker 1: we've been having, and that is like a a crucial
Speaker 1: part of the story. So it just like goes to
Speaker 1: show when you have people who understand the culture and
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about and bring them on your
Speaker 1: story is just have like a pack of white guys
Speaker 1: fumbling around in the dark, which sounds like we're the
Speaker 1: was the early production of this movie. In fact, Lee
Speaker 1: Unkridge also said that in an early draft of this script,
Speaker 1: the character of Miguel was going to be a Mexican
Speaker 1: American kid who would have and I think the movie
Speaker 1: would have been set in the US, and he was
Speaker 1: dealing with the death of his mother, So it was
Speaker 1: still going to revolve around Dia de lo Smuertos, and
Speaker 1: Lee Anchorage says, quote our first stab, but the story
Speaker 1: reflected the fact that none of us at the time
Speaker 1: were from Mexico, so it made sense to tell it
Speaker 1: from an outside perspective because I knew we were going
Speaker 1: to have to teach an audience about the traditions and
Speaker 1: about Mexico, and that seemed like a logical way to
Speaker 1: do it initially. Uh and quote so it's like, okay, well, well,
Speaker 1: I would say I am kind of like impressed, isn't
Speaker 1: the word, because it's like you can't really hand it
Speaker 1: to anyone in this situation. But I feel like it
Speaker 1: is kind of rare to hear a white director publicly
Speaker 1: vocalize it and not just be like oh yeah, but totally.
Speaker 1: And I googled and I went to the library, and
Speaker 1: like I figured it out. Like I feel like that's
Speaker 1: normally more what you get. And I feel like I
Speaker 1: bring up the quote where Robert Egger says he went
Speaker 1: to the library and that's why he understands indigenous American culture,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like you get a lot of that,
Speaker 1: and uh, I guess like it still feels like it
Speaker 1: should just be Adrian Molina's movie, and that it is,
Speaker 1: but you know, at least the Uncher just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of didn't know what I was doing. But
Speaker 1: did I take the directing credit? Did I take the money?
Speaker 1: I shared it? I had one more. I feel like
Speaker 1: we haven't even started talking about this story yet. Uh,
Speaker 1: but there was one more criticism I just wanted to
Speaker 1: bring up because it's something I saw in several different places,
Speaker 1: and that was um and again in that essay in
Speaker 1: the Marys Sue, it came up and um, the writer,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I have so many taps. Okay. Carla
Speaker 1: tamise about how there's only one shade of brown in
Speaker 1: the movie in terms of skin tone, and how that
Speaker 1: was something that stuck out to her as just a
Speaker 1: frustration and a disappointment, and uh. Conversation that I think
Speaker 1: is had all the time and yet rarely taken action
Speaker 1: upon in projects is colorism and the fact that there
Speaker 1: are many shades of brown, and also there are white
Speaker 1: people that live in Mexico like there. So I just
Speaker 1: want to quote from her piece because she does it
Speaker 1: better than I ever could. Obviously. Um, so she says, quote,
Speaker 1: I'm not naive enough to have expected a fair representation
Speaker 1: of what Mexican people can and do look like, but wow,
Speaker 1: it was still surprisingly disappointing to find that picks are
Speaker 1: found one shade of brown and really committed to it.
Speaker 1: Like any colonized land united under a flag that was
Speaker 1: imposed by settlers and voyagers on its indigenous inhabitants and
Speaker 1: the slaves who were brought in to help it make
Speaker 1: it suitable to white needs. There is no one way
Speaker 1: that a Mexican can look. I always think of the
Speaker 1: Sandra Ses Narrows quote from Caromelo. So now we're quoting
Speaker 1: Sandra's narrows. Um, there are green eyed Mexicans, there are
Speaker 1: rich blonde Mexicans, the Mexicans with the faces of Arab Chics,
Speaker 1: the Jewish Mexicans, the big Footed is a German Mexicans,
Speaker 1: the leftover French Mexicans, the Chaparrito compact Mexicans. Um. This
Speaker 1: quote goes on for a while, but all that to
Speaker 1: say she She concludes by saying that lack of physical
Speaker 1: diversity on screen is simply an extension of a continued
Speaker 1: failure of big stage Mexican representation in embracing both our
Speaker 1: extensive ethnic heritage and our pre colonial history unquote, which
Speaker 1: is a point of sag in a few different places.
Speaker 1: And honestly, I mean I felt foolish because I hadn't noticed.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to bring that up as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, yes, I completely agree, and I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, I understand to some extent his his family,
Speaker 1: you know, being the same color and um like his
Speaker 1: parents and looking like him. But as far as his village,
Speaker 1: they are correct, and that there is still colorism both
Speaker 1: in Latin American countries and in our country, very obviously
Speaker 1: amongst Latinos. And I do feel like they took that
Speaker 1: note with their new movie that they have with them
Speaker 1: Stephanie Beatrice, because that family seems very um diverse skin
Speaker 1: color wise and actually being including after Latinos, but that
Speaker 1: is something that I feel is an afterthought and uh,
Speaker 1: Miguel's shade, I feel like, is what people think of
Speaker 1: when they think of Latino, you know, and I've I've
Speaker 1: said that as well, like when I audition for roles,
Speaker 1: it's never debated about whether I'm Latina or not, whereas
Speaker 1: my Afro Latina friends sometimes they're not even considered. And
Speaker 1: so that is still a huge problem that we're that
Speaker 1: we're still dealing with Um that we saw, you know,
Speaker 1: the conversation surrounding in the Heights. I think that just
Speaker 1: in media, that has been thought of as the skin
Speaker 1: color for for Latinos, and it's just not correct that
Speaker 1: we do come in all shades. And I want to
Speaker 1: say though that yes, although there are white Latinos like,
Speaker 1: I'm more concerned with Afro Latinos being shown. No. I
Speaker 1: know that she that's what She's not wrong, but I'm
Speaker 1: just like, yes, but also I personally don't know if
Speaker 1: I care as much as UM because I just feel white.
Speaker 1: Then if you are white, you have other things to
Speaker 1: latch onto. You know, you're you have had other people
Speaker 1: that look like you and princesses that look like you
Speaker 1: and and superheroes and people in Star Wars and whatever
Speaker 1: that that are your skin color, then even if they're
Speaker 1: not Latino, they do still have your skin color. And
Speaker 1: so I'm very concerned with Afro and Indigenous representation of
Speaker 1: Latinos and just feel like that has not been And
Speaker 1: I know Jamie is sorry, I know that's not what
Speaker 1: you're saying. I just wanted to say, or or necessarily
Speaker 1: what she's saying, but I just wanted to say that, like,
Speaker 1: I just don't see enough representation and I feel a
Speaker 1: lot of times like they're they're just not considered, you know,
Speaker 1: um like in the in the auditions that I get
Speaker 1: it just and it's hard. There is no one way
Speaker 1: to be Latino like that. That it's also like we're
Speaker 1: kind of we have this term and yet we're so
Speaker 1: different that it's hard to put us all. It's hard
Speaker 1: to put us all in this under this term. And
Speaker 1: so for me, it's so important with everything that I make,
Speaker 1: that that I actually make. I don't I can't control
Speaker 1: the shows you know that I write on that I
Speaker 1: have bosses and it's their show and I'm just a
Speaker 1: writer on there. I try to push as much as
Speaker 1: I can, uh, and I do, but I'm at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, not the one that's making the
Speaker 1: final decision, but at least in the things that I make,
Speaker 1: I feel pretty proud of being able to represent my community.
Speaker 1: But I do feel like there needs to be more
Speaker 1: more of our stories greenlits, so that one singular movie
Speaker 1: or one singular show doesn't have to represent all of us,
Speaker 1: because I think that's that's such a burden that white
Speaker 1: people don't have, and it I just think it's so
Speaker 1: unfair and hard on uh, Like I think of even Insecure,
Speaker 1: and I remember people you know, writing as about like, well,
Speaker 1: this is kind of classes because you're showing this type
Speaker 1: of class of black people, and I'm like, well, one,
Speaker 1: she was also an uber driver for one, but like two,
Speaker 1: that's such that's such a burden too place of like
Speaker 1: she needs to represent the wealth of the black community,
Speaker 1: and I'm like that's just impossible. That's that's not something
Speaker 1: that is put on white on white creators to represent
Speaker 1: every single element of their community. And so I literally
Speaker 1: have lost sleep about this with my own community of
Speaker 1: like I actually cannot I cannot represent you know, the
Speaker 1: full breadth of my community. And even experiences. As we
Speaker 1: were thinking. As I was thinking, like Lee Ridge took
Speaker 1: this on and he's not in the community, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I could take on like
Speaker 1: Argentinean like representation. I'm like that that's just not that's
Speaker 1: not my Like, I'm just not in that community, and
Speaker 1: so like, I don't even know if I would feel
Speaker 1: And I have had projects come across like that, and
Speaker 1: I'm like I pass on them because I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: such a that would be so much time to when
Speaker 1: it could just go to someone that that's their authentic selve,
Speaker 1: their authentic background in truth and culture. And so, but
Speaker 1: that is all to say that it's like impossible for
Speaker 1: one single Latino person to represent every single Latino person.
Speaker 1: And so what the truth is is that more of
Speaker 1: those stories need to be greenlit. More after Latino creators
Speaker 1: need to have uh need to be green light, need
Speaker 1: to be given the funds to make their own stories
Speaker 1: and shows so that they don't have to feel like
Speaker 1: they're a side character in somebody else's movie or side
Speaker 1: you know, or an afterthought. Right, Yeah, And I want
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that we've had conversations on this show the demonstrate.
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, Jamie, but like
Speaker 1: my misunderstanding that I had for a long time about
Speaker 1: Latin X Latin A communities and people in which I
Speaker 1: kind of assumed, oh, all people in that community are
Speaker 1: people of color. And we've had conversations about like Latina
Speaker 1: actresses who are white people of European descent who are
Speaker 1: still also Latina, but we were referring to them as
Speaker 1: people of color, and we've you know, had friends and
Speaker 1: listeners clarify for us, just because someone is Latina doesn't
Speaker 1: automatically mean they're also a person of color. And I
Speaker 1: think the confusion for me at least comes from the
Speaker 1: colorism and featurism that exists in media and movies and stuff,
Speaker 1: where white European features are favored and are considered to
Speaker 1: be more attractive. So a lot of the famous Latin
Speaker 1: X actors in both the U S and in Latin
Speaker 1: America are of European descent, and they are not indigenous,
Speaker 1: and they are not Afro Latino, or if they're mixed,
Speaker 1: they tend to have more European features. So again it
Speaker 1: speaks to the need to have far more representation across
Speaker 1: the board to fully represent all the communities and subcultures
Speaker 1: that fall under the Latin umbrella. So this is all
Speaker 1: something that I didn't have a super clear understanding of
Speaker 1: at first, and I've had to do a lot of
Speaker 1: research and reading and talking to people. And again, there
Speaker 1: are past episodes where our misunderstanding is fully on display.
Speaker 1: So I want to hold ourselves accountable for that and
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that. Yeah, no, I totally. I mean we've
Speaker 1: we've very much fumbled and it made and I think
Speaker 1: just like made not uncommon but completely incorrect assumptions in
Speaker 1: the past on this show. And it's something that's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: our listeners have have been kind and moments that honestly
Speaker 1: they didn't need to be about letting us know about
Speaker 1: about stuff, and and you know, it's conversations that we're
Speaker 1: committed to continuing to have. But yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's even in this particular scenario with with cocoa, I
Speaker 1: was I was like, oh, like, Jamie, how did you
Speaker 1: not notice that? Like what could because it's like, once
Speaker 1: it's brought to your attention, you can't un see it.
Speaker 1: And I learned about this criticism between you know, whatever
Speaker 1: viewings for this show, and I don't know, and like
Speaker 1: you're saying, Danny, it's a completely unreasonable request and an
Speaker 1: additional pressure put on marginalized creators to represent their entire
Speaker 1: culture every time they're creatively producing something that is impossible
Speaker 1: and and setting up people for for failure because it's
Speaker 1: not a realistic expectation and of a creator. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I mean, the it should just be the answers to
Speaker 1: have allowed more more people to get to tell their
Speaker 1: stories and will eventually, I mean, I'm hoping that we
Speaker 1: eventually get to that that place. So no single POC
Speaker 1: creator feels like they have to represent every single element
Speaker 1: of their or even every single element of their you know,
Speaker 1: commute like like I was saying in East's cases, like
Speaker 1: representing all types of different wealth or poverty or like whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh, she just is kind of making a
Speaker 1: story about dating as a as a black millennial, you know,
Speaker 1: but like to to have to like and I totally
Speaker 1: understand that, and but it's just like it's just something
Speaker 1: that we don't place on on white on like girls,
Speaker 1: you know, like that wasn't I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I didn't watch the show, but is that a commentary
Speaker 1: on Ship's Creek. Well, actually I think it did because
Speaker 1: they were poor and then they got but like at last,
Speaker 1: so I don't know, Okay, things less like you can
Speaker 1: name white leads for the next five days. No, but
Speaker 1: you're totally right, Like, these same burdens are not placed
Speaker 1: on white creators, largely because there's been so much representation
Speaker 1: of white people in media that the full spectrum has
Speaker 1: already been represented. And of course there are groups that
Speaker 1: haven't been represented enough or well. And that's you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: that's what we talk about all the time on the podcast.
Speaker 1: But even so, a lot of queer stories and stories
Speaker 1: about disability and stories about women still center white people.
Speaker 1: So again, this all just continues to speak to the
Speaker 1: need for a much larger scope of representation of all people,
Speaker 1: all communities, all identities, all intersections everyone. Yeah, and like
Speaker 1: behind the camera too, Yes, I was gonna say to
Speaker 1: like also just being able to represent both. Like one
Speaker 1: of my favorite a Filatino characters is Miles Morales, and
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times people forget that
Speaker 1: he is black and Latino, and I just feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of times they're a lot of stories don't
Speaker 1: allow for the full complexity or full depth of of
Speaker 1: both of those, you know, And so it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of like one or the other, and that is you can't, um,
Speaker 1: you can't separate those two. Those are two. That is
Speaker 1: his identity, like you can't. You can't like you know,
Speaker 1: pick one or the other. And so that is his
Speaker 1: identity in full. And so it just is um allowing
Speaker 1: more characters. I think too that our a Filatino to
Speaker 1: have to have all those layers is important. But I
Speaker 1: think a lot of times people forget and have that
Speaker 1: not be such a rarity too. Yeah, I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk a little about the use of Spanish in the
Speaker 1: movie Coco, where not a ton is spoken and in
Speaker 1: like the English language version of the movie, Um, but
Speaker 1: there is some there. And I wanted to share something
Speaker 1: from a New York Times piece entitled how Picks Are
Speaker 1: Made Sure Coco was culturally conscious by Reggie Ugu points
Speaker 1: out that quote. Throughout the film, several main characters voiced
Speaker 1: by a nearly all Latino cast that includes Gayle Garcia Brunell,
Speaker 1: Benjamin Bratt, and the young Anthony Gonzalez as Miguel slip
Speaker 1: in and out of untranslated Spanish a rarity in commercial
Speaker 1: American cinema. And then there's an additional quote from Octavio Solis,
Speaker 1: who is one of the consultants that was hired on
Speaker 1: the film, says, quote the original idea was to have
Speaker 1: the characters speak only in English, with the understanding that
Speaker 1: they were really speaking in Spanish. But for us, language
Speaker 1: is binary, and we code switch from English to Spanish seamlessly.
Speaker 1: End quote. Um, which is just like a feature that
Speaker 1: I thought was really cool. It gives people watching this
Speaker 1: who aren't Spanish speakers exposure to the language. Like I
Speaker 1: think it just like has all these great benefits that
Speaker 1: I thought was like cool to include. But I'm interested
Speaker 1: to hear other perspectives on that as well. Well. I
Speaker 1: feel like that's how a lot of families, at least here,
Speaker 1: you know, it's fascinating because it was in Mexico, so
Speaker 1: obviously it's probably all in you know, Spanish, but like
Speaker 1: here in the States, I feel like it's that's very
Speaker 1: common to just kind of switched back and forth between
Speaker 1: Spanish and English kind of seamlessly, uh, in conversation. So
Speaker 1: I like that, and I also just like, you know,
Speaker 1: hearing Mexican accents with while English speaking, and you know,
Speaker 1: just teaching even young Latino Like my niece is currently
Speaker 1: in um in a school where like half of the
Speaker 1: days in English and then after lunch it's all in Spanish.
Speaker 1: And so I do love I love the fact that
Speaker 1: you know that this is a family or four kids,
Speaker 1: you know, family movie, and so it's teaching young kids,
Speaker 1: whether they are of Latino descent or not. Like getting
Speaker 1: to hear some Spanish and a massive one of the
Speaker 1: things that actor Hector Navarro, Um, he's a host for
Speaker 1: Nurdict and down a bunch of other things. We both
Speaker 1: like wrote each other about the beginning to hear the
Speaker 1: Disney movie. I mean the Disney music that was at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie with the castle was Mariachi's
Speaker 1: and like that was a huge deal to us, Like
Speaker 1: that that was really important. That meant a lot, and
Speaker 1: so like even little things like that, to to have
Speaker 1: these like Disney, you know, American Disney whatever moments, but
Speaker 1: like from our culture just feels really special. Yeah. Absolutely, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have one last thing I promised, and then we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the story. I know it's late. Um,
Speaker 1: the last thing I wanted to to bring up was
Speaker 1: I was looking back at this movie was extremely well reviewed,
Speaker 1: like it has like in the nineties, seven critics score
Speaker 1: on Rotten Tomatoes. Right, this was an extremely well reviewed movie. However,
Speaker 1: there was a piece on a website called Rameskla. I
Speaker 1: had never been on it before, but it's it's a website,
Speaker 1: grassroots project that documents Latin culture, and they published this
Speaker 1: article as Coco was coming out, saying like, yeah, everyone's
Speaker 1: loving Coco, but on the Rotten Tomatoes page there is
Speaker 1: not one Latin movie reviewer who has reviewed this movie
Speaker 1: to the point where this site ended up, you know,
Speaker 1: recruiting and reaching out to a number of I mean
Speaker 1: because as we've talked about on the Show of a
Speaker 1: jillion times, there's no shortage of non white film reviewers.
Speaker 1: That's just who ordinarily gets the job at the highest
Speaker 1: level and who ends up on the Rotten Tomatoes page.
Speaker 1: And it's something that's changing very slowly to the point
Speaker 1: where it's like it would have been very glaring in
Speaker 1: to anyone who was looking that there were no Latin
Speaker 1: reviewers reviewing this movie. So this website, Ramesque Club put
Speaker 1: together a number I think it was five or six
Speaker 1: reviewers who were of Mexican descent to review this movie,
Speaker 1: and the reviews were still extremely positive. But the I
Speaker 1: mean the point of everything was, like we've sort of
Speaker 1: been referencing at different points in this episode, there's a
Speaker 1: lack of representation at every single level where you know,
Speaker 1: the average movie viewer isn't thinking, well, who's writing my
Speaker 1: movie reviews? But it absolutely makes a difference. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I just want to point that as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's similarly, it's worth noting that Coco is
Speaker 1: Pixar's nineteenth movie and the first one to feature a
Speaker 1: minority character in the lead role. Interesting, all the other
Speaker 1: ones up until that point had been coated toys or
Speaker 1: peoples or cars. Did you see white coated toys? Yes?
Speaker 1: I did, w John Goodman coated monsters, Owen Wilson coated cars.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but solely is a monster of color? Um
Speaker 1: the color is blue blue. Yeah, I mean, look, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's hard. We have these conversations so so much
Speaker 1: internally of like yes, please, like we want to be
Speaker 1: able to review Cocoa and mo Wana and whatever, But
Speaker 1: as I continue to say, we we don't want to
Speaker 1: be your token person that I remember when Mo Wanna
Speaker 1: came out, I got hit. I'm like, I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not even from this car. I'm just the closest thing
Speaker 1: you have, you know. And so it's hard because we
Speaker 1: want to be included in in the conversation, like even
Speaker 1: with this podcast, Like if you had invited an their
Speaker 1: white person, I don't know how it would feel. Probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't be as important, right, but like, but but you
Speaker 1: have also had me on what did you say, like
Speaker 1: Laura Croft tomb Rater and like that family, and so
Speaker 1: like you're not just like let's get Danny on this
Speaker 1: Latino one and then we're like not going to let
Speaker 1: her talk about anything else, and so like that's so
Speaker 1: I do want to say, yes, we do want to
Speaker 1: be included in these but I don't. I just don't
Speaker 1: think that we want to be boxed in like pigeonholed
Speaker 1: and that's the only thing we're allowed to talk about.
Speaker 1: And I know that you know, our friends during Black
Speaker 1: History Month, same thing, it's like all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: their inboxes are full, and like, let's have you on
Speaker 1: every single panel and to talk about all of this,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden after February, it's like nothing,
Speaker 1: you know, and so it's it's let us talk about
Speaker 1: all the things like Laura Croft, tomb Rat It's yeah,
Speaker 1: which is like, I mean, if if there were less
Speaker 1: white film reviewers reviewing every single film that comes out,
Speaker 1: like that would also rectify that issue of like there's
Speaker 1: what I mean, this is really getting into weeds, but
Speaker 1: into of staff writing positions for magazines and like you know,
Speaker 1: go to film reviews as opposed to the freelance model
Speaker 1: that I think kind of empowers that kind of tokenizing behavior. True. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the movie. Yeah, let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: co Co the story thoughts. I like it. I honestly
Speaker 1: thought this was really clever. Yeah. I still like, you know,
Speaker 1: my writer brain, like I still think this is such
Speaker 1: a clever way to approach this, like to be like,
Speaker 1: how are we going to make a film about this
Speaker 1: really special day? Um? Yeah, I felt like this was
Speaker 1: very clever and it was. It was very different than
Speaker 1: Book of Life, like completely different. So it is fascinating.
Speaker 1: Oh you should, you definitely should. Yeah, And I love
Speaker 1: Jorges um he has Maya and the Three coming out
Speaker 1: on Netflix. Also cried watching that trailer. Also cried. I
Speaker 1: watched that trailer so many times and cried. Also, something
Speaker 1: that took him like three years to make this series
Speaker 1: that's coming out on Netflix. I mean, animation takes so long.
Speaker 1: But he has a very cool, very unique artistic style
Speaker 1: that you can't miss. Like I've seen I've seen his
Speaker 1: work on the side of buildings and I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: that's more hey, um, but yeah, check that out. What
Speaker 1: I'm saying though, is that I love that we can
Speaker 1: have multiple movies and we should because like, how many
Speaker 1: Christmas movies are there billion about white people? Yeah? Exactly
Speaker 1: how many Christmas Lifetime movies do we white people moving
Speaker 1: in with their parents? Yeah, that live in a nice house,
Speaker 1: or like reconnecting with their high school love or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean whatever, now disrespect to people who but like
Speaker 1: what anyways? Yeah, I also something that just I can like,
Speaker 1: this is a really good movie in so many ways.
Speaker 1: It's also like a really good Disney movie. I can't
Speaker 1: remember what like more, but this movie has like Dela
Speaker 1: Cruz is such a good Disney villain. Like I felt
Speaker 1: like I hadn't seen like one of my goofy who
Speaker 1: gives a ship millennial gripes with more recent Disney movies
Speaker 1: is like, I like when a villain falls off a
Speaker 1: cliff at the end, I like it, like and I
Speaker 1: feel like Dela Cruz, who literally I mean he gets
Speaker 1: crushed by a bella second time poetic justice. We was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like his character. Not only is the writing surrounding his
Speaker 1: character so strong and everything is so firmly planted, but
Speaker 1: like when you reach the twist, it is so like rewarding.
Speaker 1: But on top of that, it felt like this really
Speaker 1: cool meeting between you know, the more recent Disney quote
Speaker 1: unquote villains. I feel like you're encouraged to empathize with them,
Speaker 1: and then by the end maybe you see them in
Speaker 1: a different way, which you do a little bit with
Speaker 1: Dela Cruz, but you still get that kind of satisfying
Speaker 1: nineties Disney villain where he falls off a cliff and
Speaker 1: is double dead. Now, um yeah, I I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: how his plot line bore out too, and how it
Speaker 1: affected Miguel of you know, Miguel was kind of being
Speaker 1: gently encouraged by someone he thought was his relative of like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, like it was all worth it, this thing
Speaker 1: that I did, Like, I would recommend it to everybody,
Speaker 1: which you get is kind of overly simplistic because everyone's
Speaker 1: family is different. But I mean, he had me going.
Speaker 1: I fell for the first time I watched it. I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, he's right, no notes, he's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I too abandoned my family to pursue comedy and
Speaker 1: I never looked back. I know, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess we all didn't do that. Um, so we're
Speaker 1: all gonna get crushed by bells, etcetera. Like it's an
Speaker 1: it's an oversimplification, but I just yeah, I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: like a Disney villain, I missed them. It was exciting.
Speaker 1: One thing I really loved. And even though the main
Speaker 1: vehicle of this story is Miguel seeking the blessing of
Speaker 1: a male family member, there's so much emphasis in the
Speaker 1: movie on something that Adriana was speaking to in terms
Speaker 1: of like the matriarchs of the family, and how there's
Speaker 1: multiple women in the movie who are like the authority
Speaker 1: figures of the household. They're calling the shots. They are
Speaker 1: revered and respected by the rest of the family, strong
Speaker 1: women who Miguel sure butts heads with. But you know,
Speaker 1: he has an arc in which he does like come
Speaker 1: to learn to appreciate his family and the love that
Speaker 1: his family provides for him thanks to the kind of
Speaker 1: guidance of these women and his family. And then the
Speaker 1: women also arc in the sense that they realized maybe
Speaker 1: they were being a bit too hard on him and
Speaker 1: a little bit too rigid, and you know again when
Speaker 1: they see how much music means to him and they
Speaker 1: see the effect that it has on him, and just
Speaker 1: like like kind of the larger cultural scope of things,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I was maybe being unreasonable to banish
Speaker 1: all music for the first I do wish that this
Speaker 1: is like a very tiny nippet, but I do wish
Speaker 1: that we had gotten to see some of the women
Speaker 1: in this story have a little more fun where it
Speaker 1: felt like there was with with Hector and with Miguel.
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone has these very like dramatic arcs, but
Speaker 1: you get to see Hector and Miguel have fun and
Speaker 1: have these like moments of levity with their characters and
Speaker 1: goof off and just have these silly moments. And I
Speaker 1: wish that for all of the very well developed and
Speaker 1: strong women in this story, I wish you got to
Speaker 1: see them have a little bit of fun. Because it
Speaker 1: did feel like usually, even though all of the women
Speaker 1: are I think, you know, very individual characters. I just
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just wanted to see one of
Speaker 1: them make a goof have some fun joke, like make
Speaker 1: a go yeah. I feel like that Mama Melda gets
Speaker 1: to like embrace her her music background again, she gets
Speaker 1: to like have that moment that spotlight. I think the
Speaker 1: only thing that I would say is that this was
Speaker 1: kind of the answer to all of the Disney Princess movies,
Speaker 1: which by the way, I personally appreciate, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: like every new Disney Princess that would come out, I
Speaker 1: was that Disney Princess for Halloween. It was like every
Speaker 1: new one, I had the costume. And so I think
Speaker 1: this was their kind of way of like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: we're going to instead, because like we said, they had
Speaker 1: Mowanna right before this, right um, and Frozen and like
Speaker 1: I mean also all the Disney Princesses and snow White.
Speaker 1: I think this was one of their ways of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now we're going to have a little boy, you know,
Speaker 1: and like focus on that and his story and like
Speaker 1: men and like this bonding between a son and this
Speaker 1: father figure and the fact that he actually has parents
Speaker 1: and like gets to keep his parents. It's fascinating or
Speaker 1: a Disney movie. Disney movies famously kill off mothers, and
Speaker 1: the fact that they are like multiple mother figures. The
Speaker 1: family grows by the end, there's a new sibling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he has a new sibling. Yeah. So that's the
Speaker 1: only thing that I would say that it kind of
Speaker 1: it kind of felt like, you know, my brothers grew
Speaker 1: up watching me, kind of experiencing not saying that they
Speaker 1: didn't have their own ship, because they definitely did, but like,
Speaker 1: you know, when it came to Disney, it was kind
Speaker 1: of like my time to shine, and they always watched me.
Speaker 1: They had to watch my Disney movies. It felt like, uh,
Speaker 1: and they were always the side whatever characters in the
Speaker 1: Disney movies. And so this was kind of like if
Speaker 1: this had come out when they were little. You know,
Speaker 1: if I think of like my older brother getting to
Speaker 1: see himself in Miguel, you know, where is the closest
Speaker 1: thing I felt I got was like Jasmine, and I
Speaker 1: you know, letched onto that. But but yeah, so that's
Speaker 1: what I would say with them with it being you know,
Speaker 1: more quote unquote boy if we're like gendering this, but
Speaker 1: like it's I didn't even have an issue with with
Speaker 1: the protagonist being a boy or connecting with his male ancestors. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just wish that that that the women and the
Speaker 1: family got to have more fun in the moments that
Speaker 1: they that they were present because they felt very present. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I would really change too much about
Speaker 1: like the distribution of screen time really, like it feels
Speaker 1: like the movie is so well thought out. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just know, Jamie. I saw your blog and it said
Speaker 1: Miguel should have been I did a bunch of math.
Speaker 1: I like hot take. No, I wanted to say, I
Speaker 1: did love. I loved and freaked out and was like
Speaker 1: very excited about freed To. I have a freed To
Speaker 1: canvas across from me right now of artwork of her
Speaker 1: my beautiful by icon who I adore. She also popped
Speaker 1: up in love Craft. I don't know if you all
Speaker 1: saw that, but like anytime she pops up in pop culture,
Speaker 1: I get really excited. Um, so I was really happy
Speaker 1: and she she kind of got you know, she They
Speaker 1: definitely showed her a little you know, her wild side.
Speaker 1: I guess she Yeah, I mean she definitely got to
Speaker 1: goof off. Yeah, yeah, her her wild side, but I
Speaker 1: was so happy that they had her in it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do appreciate to that. Like, the matriarchs are again
Speaker 1: these kind of like authoritative figures in the family and
Speaker 1: therefore often stern, but they are also very appropriately soft
Speaker 1: and compassionate and like loving and affectionate with Miguel especially
Speaker 1: and you know, other members of the family. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it didn't feel I feel like it would have been
Speaker 1: a like earlier Disney trope or just like media trope
Speaker 1: in general, to kind of villainize a like matriarchal figure
Speaker 1: in a family and be like, oh, she's the mom,
Speaker 1: so she's mean, because we've talked about that trope on
Speaker 1: a number of episodes. But the these mothers and matriarchs
Speaker 1: and women in this story have just way more dimension,
Speaker 1: I feel like than your typical like mother character in
Speaker 1: a family movie, especially right. Yeah, any other thoughts about
Speaker 1: the narrative or the characters. Oh, this was something that
Speaker 1: I so, I mean, I just I love Hector and
Speaker 1: Miguel's relationship. I love I mean the way that Hector's
Speaker 1: character is written I thought was so just brilliant, The
Speaker 1: way that he's introduced like I don't I can't really
Speaker 1: think of many other movies that do this where I
Speaker 1: feel like Hector is so very introduced to you as
Speaker 1: a like side character that you don't see it coming
Speaker 1: that he is one of the most critical players in
Speaker 1: the entire story. I just felt like that was so
Speaker 1: well executed and almost plays on what we know about
Speaker 1: Disney movies already to be like oh side character at it,
Speaker 1: and that it ultimately like becomes this story about a
Speaker 1: father and a daughter by the end where you get
Speaker 1: to focus on the connection between Hector and Coco. That
Speaker 1: is like I cried as thinking about it, but but
Speaker 1: I think that that is kind of a rare thing
Speaker 1: in in movies, and by extension, like Coco and Miguel
Speaker 1: like this, like in the beginning of the movie and
Speaker 1: in the end of the movie, so like during the exposition,
Speaker 1: there's all this Miguel's talking about, like, oh, I tell
Speaker 1: my like Mama, Coco doesn't remember that much, but it's fine.
Speaker 1: I talked to her, I tell her everything, And there's
Speaker 1: like little montage of all the things he says to
Speaker 1: her and they do like he re enacts like wrestling
Speaker 1: with her and then at the end that again like
Speaker 1: the heart wrenching ist scene of any movie ever, where
Speaker 1: he's trying to get her to remember Hector and singing
Speaker 1: to her, and then she start singing along and you
Speaker 1: see how like how much she comes to life, and
Speaker 1: which is so inherented, Like I don't know anyone who's
Speaker 1: ever had an elderly family member who is kind of
Speaker 1: in and out and in a moment where you when
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, there they are, you know, and those
Speaker 1: moments are so precious and beautiful, and it was just
Speaker 1: like so well done. Yeah. I think that just goes
Speaker 1: back to like how universal our stories are, you know,
Speaker 1: like having the story of Miguel like pursuing something that
Speaker 1: his family doesn't necessarily want him to do. I feel
Speaker 1: like everyone can relate to that, you know, especially if
Speaker 1: you're in the creative arts um. And then like you know,
Speaker 1: having a falling out with a family member or you know,
Speaker 1: like identity issues or like you said, even kind of
Speaker 1: losing um an elderly having an elderly family member like
Speaker 1: maybe not remember you, or kind of going in and
Speaker 1: out like these are all universal stories and experiences. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I just keep going back to
Speaker 1: like allowing us to make our stories. But it's just
Speaker 1: like they're they're universal, they're human stories, human stories. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really saying like groundbreaking things here that nobody has
Speaker 1: ever said. Y'all really like really like no one's ever
Speaker 1: thought of thought of these thoughts. I mean, it's really
Speaker 1: important to just be reminded of these things and talk
Speaker 1: about them. That's true. It can't be overstated that. I
Speaker 1: don't think, yeah, today would have anything else. I think
Speaker 1: that was about I was as I was going through
Speaker 1: my nuts. I'm like, I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: this was just like I like that. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'll just like linked to some really good articles I
Speaker 1: read that. I think it would be like good supplemental
Speaker 1: things to to read in addition to listening to this episode. Um,
Speaker 1: we didn't really talk about the and I don't know
Speaker 1: how much anyone wants to go in to this. If
Speaker 1: we don't want to go into it, we don't have to,
Speaker 1: because I would understand not wanting to think about the
Speaker 1: Trump administration again. But I think it's just at least
Speaker 1: worth mentioning the kind of cultural context in which this
Speaker 1: movie came out in the US at least where again
Speaker 1: not long into the Trump administration, where Trump was, you know,
Speaker 1: constantly spewing hateful rhetoric about specifically Mexican people, and you
Speaker 1: know this need to build a wall, and you know,
Speaker 1: the ramping up of ice, and for this movie to
Speaker 1: come out like in the midst of all that and
Speaker 1: be so beloved and to represent the culture so respectfully
Speaker 1: and responsibly and authentically to be a huge box office hit.
Speaker 1: This movie, by the way, is the highest grossing film
Speaker 1: of all time in Mexico. So for that to just
Speaker 1: be a reprieve basically from all of Trump's awfulness, it's
Speaker 1: just another thing that goes to show how important it
Speaker 1: is for these stories to be told on a regular,
Speaker 1: regular basis. Yeah, I would say, also like our resiliency
Speaker 1: and like our winning an Academy Award and um Guarrama
Speaker 1: winning I think like either the year before and then
Speaker 1: Roma winning and just like our I don't know, like
Speaker 1: our I was, like our takeover, our just like our
Speaker 1: ability to resonate with so many people and um in
Speaker 1: spite of this country's president at the time just wanting
Speaker 1: to obliterate us, that we still came out on top
Speaker 1: and we still were dominating, which is a burden you
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to bear, of course, but yeah, yes, they
Speaker 1: were like, I hear that you hate us, and we're
Speaker 1: going to actually win all of these Academy awards over
Speaker 1: everybody else. Um during that administration. No, literally, like it
Speaker 1: was like so many Mexican directors, like one after the
Speaker 1: other after the other. We're like winning during just as
Speaker 1: kind of like a middle finger. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: even want to fuck you. I know I'm allowed to
Speaker 1: say that on here. I was like, what is another
Speaker 1: term for fuck you? As a middle finger to the president? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the only last thing I wanted to mention was another
Speaker 1: like Disney didn't. Another oopsie was that they used they
Speaker 1: used the likeness of a real woman named Maria de
Speaker 1: la Salude Ramirez Caballero from a village in Santa Fe
Speaker 1: de la Laguna in Mexico. They basically used her likeness
Speaker 1: for the design of Mama Coco. Producers came to her
Speaker 1: ledge took a picture of Maria, but did not compensate
Speaker 1: her or her family or give any credit to her
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So, um, that's just another thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know killing they had. They only had a
Speaker 1: budget of two million dollars. So that sucks. That's always
Speaker 1: so frustrating, and it's like something that that should just
Speaker 1: be standardized in Hollywood because I I don't know. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I feel like in an industry like this, you cannot
Speaker 1: count on the goodwill of certainly large corporations, no matter
Speaker 1: even in a production that seemed this determined to be
Speaker 1: culturally sensitive, and but they're just needs to be like
Speaker 1: a requirement that it's like, no, you cannot just steal
Speaker 1: someone's face, like it seems intuitive, but yes, I hope
Speaker 1: the artists that follow me are I've seen y'all. I
Speaker 1: sent it to Iffy and my friend Neil Radford. There
Speaker 1: are a couple of people that have copied because you know,
Speaker 1: I post like my photo shoots, like my very like
Speaker 1: muscular like art Like I've seen people use those and um,
Speaker 1: like this is I should send you some. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is my face you're or like my I've had people,
Speaker 1: I've had artists that will be like, oh I saved
Speaker 1: this and like use this as like a life drawing
Speaker 1: or like I hope it's okay. I like planned to
Speaker 1: use this as like you know, because like the different
Speaker 1: poses I'm in like it shows off my different like
Speaker 1: muscle definition or whatever. But I definitely have seen a
Speaker 1: couple of Latino characters that look too similar, Like my
Speaker 1: face is very like my jaw and like, anyways, I
Speaker 1: made this about me. I successfully made this about me.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is you can, but like please like
Speaker 1: either pay me or be like Danny has to voice
Speaker 1: this character because we base this off of her look.
Speaker 1: But I've definitely seen you appropriately and compensate you. Like
Speaker 1: not too much to ask, I can say because I
Speaker 1: just be in this industry. It happens more than people realize.
Speaker 1: It happens more than people realize. And is also when
Speaker 1: you all tweet. I just had a tweet about this.
Speaker 1: But also when you're like pitching stories and stuff on Twitter,
Speaker 1: people do steal those, so I just please protect yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah again, that's why only tweet about Paddington because that
Speaker 1: story already exists. Yeah, or oh you know what, I
Speaker 1: should tweet a story about how me and Gail Garcia
Speaker 1: brnow fall in love Mary, and then that story can
Speaker 1: get stolen as long as it happens in real life.
Speaker 1: You hear that, Gail? Anyway? Um, yeah, that was all
Speaker 1: I had. We've been talking for a long time, and
Speaker 1: longer than the run half of the movie, so the
Speaker 1: tradition continues. Wow, hilarious. H Does anyone have anything else?
Speaker 1: That's all I got Now. I'm just glad this movie exists. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and I already I know I'll cry next time too.
Speaker 1: There's no way around it. I honestly don't know the
Speaker 1: answer to this question because I was so enthralled by
Speaker 1: the story. I was hoping you would know. I forgot
Speaker 1: to pay attention. If it passes the Bechtel test or not.
Speaker 1: I feel like it does. I think it does at
Speaker 1: some point between like Miguel's grandmother Ammam a Coco, and
Speaker 1: then there are other family members of his that exchange words,
Speaker 1: but I don't know, like to what extent or I
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly what they talk about. Yeah, it could
Speaker 1: be Miguel, Like there's a I could see it going
Speaker 1: either wait, let me let yeah, go to Bechtel test
Speaker 1: dot com or whatever. If you google any movie and
Speaker 1: backtel yeah, yeah, Becktel test dot com. Here we are, Okay,
Speaker 1: it does. It does pass. But then there's a lot
Speaker 1: of this is like a lot of comments for this website,
Speaker 1: I would say, we forgot to do our job. But
Speaker 1: also the Bechtel test is again not that important to
Speaker 1: our show. Okay, so the consensus is it does it
Speaker 1: does pass the Bectel test. It doesn't pass a lot.
Speaker 1: But I would argue for this movie here matriarch well,
Speaker 1: it's like you're in a matriarchal family, in a matriarchal structure,
Speaker 1: women have a strong influence on the plot. Could women
Speaker 1: and could people have a marginalized genders be speaking to
Speaker 1: each other more? Yes, always, and that's always fair game.
Speaker 1: But in the context of this movie, I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is just I feel like, not the best metric
Speaker 1: to apply to this movie because of how I don't know.
Speaker 1: But it does technically pass not not not a not
Speaker 1: a million times, but it does pass well. How about that.
Speaker 1: As far as our nipple skill goes zero to five nipples,
Speaker 1: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I would say,
Speaker 1: if I had to take any nipples off, it would
Speaker 1: be because of some of the like production and development
Speaker 1: stuff and the people behind the camera being still largely
Speaker 1: white men who were making a lot of the major
Speaker 1: creative decisions here, and even though they brought on consultants
Speaker 1: and Adrian Molina as a screenwriter and co director. It's
Speaker 1: still is just like, Okay, well, who are you guys
Speaker 1: to make this movie and and tell this story. But
Speaker 1: even so, the product that came out of it was
Speaker 1: so good and so well handled. And aside from yeah,
Speaker 1: like the kind of border control customs thing that was
Speaker 1: traumatizing and triggering for some viewers to watch, and a
Speaker 1: couple of little things like that, this this movie is
Speaker 1: really well done. And because it had such a positive
Speaker 1: response from the Latin community, especially because so much of
Speaker 1: the culture and community the way it's been represented in
Speaker 1: American cinema prior to that has been absolutely abysmal. So
Speaker 1: I would give this like four and a half nipples,
Speaker 1: I want to say, and I'll give one to Mama Emldo,
Speaker 1: one to Mama Coco, one to basically just all the mama's,
Speaker 1: another Miguel's and Miguel's mama, and the little baby that
Speaker 1: was in the house, nipple to little Sis at the
Speaker 1: very ends. Yeah, I'll meet you at uh four and
Speaker 1: a half. I think that you know that the criticism
Speaker 1: surrounding this movie in the production, I think it's very
Speaker 1: much worth discussing I and the I mean, it's stuff
Speaker 1: we've been talking about for three hours, So I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, retread everything. I think
Speaker 1: that there is valid criticism around certain creative decisions in
Speaker 1: this movie. There was certainly a lot of like white
Speaker 1: CEO creative nonsense that took place at the beginning of
Speaker 1: this movie in terms of production. And I also think
Speaker 1: that the conversation around colorism is a very valid one
Speaker 1: that warrant continuing on this show and in the industry
Speaker 1: at large. And the movie that we got is so
Speaker 1: beautiful and like so human while also being very culturally specific,
Speaker 1: and it's it's such a beautiful movie. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to watch it again. It makes me wish that it
Speaker 1: existed when we were kids, but very happy that, you know,
Speaker 1: like our nieces and nephews are are going to be
Speaker 1: able to grow up with it. Um, So four and
Speaker 1: a half nipples from me? I who am I going
Speaker 1: to give my nipples to? Wow, I'm going to give
Speaker 1: them all to Dante the Dog. Who I did think
Speaker 1: about doing that, because Dante is incredible. I want I
Speaker 1: am going to start actively seeking out a stuffed Dante
Speaker 1: to have in my home, and he has an arc too.
Speaker 1: He becomes another brick hid does. Yeah, he's when Dante
Speaker 1: came in the last scene. I mean it's like the
Speaker 1: whole the whole last scene is just absolutely um, emotionally destroying.
Speaker 1: It's like it's beautiful, um. But yeah, Dante has even
Speaker 1: Dante as a full arc. It's simply that good. Four
Speaker 1: and a half nipples, Yes, um, I feel like I
Speaker 1: have to give this five nip? Is that how many
Speaker 1: nipples are? Five nipples? Because of how important this movie
Speaker 1: is to me and my family, And I'm going to
Speaker 1: give all of the nipples to Frieda, my queer icon.
Speaker 1: And I just imagined her there in heaven with all
Speaker 1: of her lovers, and Diego might be like far away
Speaker 1: from her, I don't know, or there with her. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It depends on what she wants, yeah, to
Speaker 1: have what she wants. Yeah, Well, if it's Diego from
Speaker 1: the biopic about Frieda, it's Alfred Molina case Jamie. True
Speaker 1: and problematic on its space, absolutely, I mean extremely problematic.
Speaker 1: They seemed like star crossed toxic lovers. I just wish
Speaker 1: that she's surrounded by whoever she wants to be surrounded
Speaker 1: by absolutely the end. Well, Danny, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. This has been an amazing discussion. Truly,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. We have to send you your
Speaker 1: three backed all cast appearance letterman jacket that we pretend
Speaker 1: to have that we don't actually have. What we should make, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll like put it on and wear it in front
Speaker 1: of my mirror, which it will just be me naked
Speaker 1: looking at myself naked. Perfect. Tell us what you'd like
Speaker 1: to plug where people can check you out on social media, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Just follow me on social media because everything I'm working
Speaker 1: on doesn't exist yet on screen and so there's nothing
Speaker 1: to point you to. Um, like a lot of other
Speaker 1: people during this time, like the last two years of
Speaker 1: my life, I'm like, I swear to God I'm doing something,
Speaker 1: but um, maybe you'll see it in No, I hope
Speaker 1: you say it before then. I am at MS Danny
Speaker 1: fernand Is. It's M. S. D A N I F
Speaker 1: E R N A and D easy on Twitter and Instagram,
Speaker 1: and that's where I post my things and my thoughts
Speaker 1: and my projects. Amazing. Hell yeah, thank you and thank you.
Speaker 1: Come back anytime. You can follow us on Twitter and
Speaker 1: Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon,
Speaker 1: which is at patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast. It's
Speaker 1: five dollars a month. It gets you access to two
Speaker 1: bonus episodes every month, plus the entire back catalog, which
Speaker 1: is over one hundred episodes. We did it. We can't
Speaker 1: stop creating content. You can also find our merch at
Speaker 1: t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast for all
Speaker 1: of your merchandizing needs. With that, shall we cross the
Speaker 1: bridge and finally embraced this the sweet embrace of death. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's seize our moment. Bye everybody, Bye
Speaker 1: bye