1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of two and soon to be three 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: and a practicing physician. We are two working parents who 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: This is Laura. In today's episode, I think it's episode nine. 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: We're talking about going towards a fifty to fifty split. 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: How to create a fair division of labor at home 13 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: without keeping score a topic we hear from people about 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: a lot. Many of these episodes we're doing around now 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: are come from listener questions. So if you do have 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: a topic I think we should be talking about, would 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: be glad to hear it. You can always email me 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: Elvanderkam at yahoo dot com. Reach out to Sarah on 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: social media as well. Another way of dividing things at home. 20 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: How's that for horrible segue? We were talking earlier about 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: room sharing, sharing rooms, how we split bedrooms in the house, 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: because you are pondering how to do this when kid 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: number three arrives, Right, Yeah, we are going to be 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: entering into the world of having more people in the 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: house than rooms to house them, and so this is 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: gonna be a new challenge, and of course we I'm 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: really excited actually about the gender kind of order that 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: we have. So we have girl who's a five year 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: old girl, a three year old boy, and then we're 30 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: gonna have another girl. But that doesn't really lend itself 31 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: towards a really natural room sharing situation. So right now, 32 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: since moving at least within our immediate app area is 33 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: not something that's gonna work financially, we are planning on 34 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: putting the two kids together and then having a nursery 35 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: and then kind of taking the long term. I'm going 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: to leave that open because I guess I just don't 37 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: really know how long a you know, end of bolling 38 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: my daughter and son would want to be together, and 39 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: then how awkward it would be for the two girls 40 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: to share a room when they'll be six years apart. Yeah, 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: that's a good question. I mean, I don't think there's 42 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: anything problematic about little boys and girls sharing room. Yeah, 43 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: no, no no, no, absolutely, it's just the when they become 44 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: like twelve and six, it's like, there's twelve and ten. 45 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: You know, that was a long time. Now, it's a 46 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: long time for now, I'm planning years. They might be 47 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: unhappy about this, that's true. I think, well, you'll come 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: up with an entirely different solution by then. We we 49 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: also have a room sharing situation because our goal is two, 50 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: so we have three boys and one girl. My daughter 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: has her own room, which is just going to be 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: I think her privilege as being the only girl we 53 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: locked out. She looked out on that one. She has 54 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: her own bathroom too, a little girl. She's very excited 55 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: about that. But then we have this Jack and Jill 56 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: bedroom situation. So that means that there's two bedrooms with 57 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 1: a bathroom between them. And the idea is that we 58 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: would like to have the three boys be in those 59 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: two rooms, and ultimately I want the configuration to be 60 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: completely up to them and sort of have it in 61 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: theory be changeable too that if they decide all three 62 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: of them would like to be in one room and 63 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: have another room as a playroom. Or have it move 64 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: around depending on who's doing projects together or whatever, that 65 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: they can do that, and that they'll sort of all 66 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: be in those two bedrooms with that bathroom and that 67 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: self contained boy world. But currently, basically my seven year 68 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: old just keeps getting the shaft on this one. So 69 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: we bought this lovely bunk bed for the room that 70 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: the two year old is currently sleeping in, and we 71 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: wanted the seven old and the two year old to 72 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: be together. Once the two year old is old enough 73 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: to do that. I thought it would have happened by now. 74 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: I mean, he's going to be three before very long. 75 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: It just hasn't. I mean that because his sleep is 76 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: so disjointed, problematic, all that stuff. Does he want to 77 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: be with your seven year old? Like? Does that motivate him? Oh? 78 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: Once he starts, I think I don't know anything that 79 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: motivates him. I haven't figured that out at all. So, 80 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, that was the idea is the two of 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: them are going to have the really cool bunk bed, 82 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: and I think it will work in another year or two, 83 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: but right now it's just not. So. The seven year 84 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: old is still in with the nine year old, our 85 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: ten year old, and they they've been together for a 86 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: long time. I mean certainly since the two year old 87 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: was born basically, and before that they had separate rooms. 88 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: They each you know, had the two of the Jack 89 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: and Jill, and so the seven year old is kind 90 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: of just not really gotten his own room ever, and 91 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: he may never get seven room. But it's just the 92 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: way it is. And it makes more sense, certainly for 93 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: a ten year old and seven year old to be 94 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: sharing right now than the seven year old and the 95 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: two year old. But that's how does it influence the 96 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: bedtime routine, because that's what I'm sort of wondering. You know, 97 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: you can't really read them. That's the problem. Is the 98 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: ten year old does not sleep. He doesn't ever want 99 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: to sleep. He likes to stay up late, and he 100 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: still wakes up early and then he does not fall 101 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: asleep during the day or in cars or anything like that. 102 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: He just has very very low sleep needs and always has. 103 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: The seven year old is not like that. He will 104 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: if he goes to bed at the same time as 105 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: a ten year old, he will sleep quite late in 106 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: the morning and he loves us sleep too, And so 107 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: we've had to sort of there is no good way 108 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: to send the seven year old to bed before the 109 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: ten year old if they're sharing a room. That is 110 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: the reality of a shared room situation. And so we 111 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: make the ten year old go to bed on time. 112 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: As far as I know, he's just kind of lying there. 113 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: I don't know with his thoughts, you know, but at 114 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: a time that the seven year old could have roughly 115 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: enough sleep, and you know, he catches up a little 116 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: bit of it, I think on weekends. And yeah, so 117 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: it's not it's not a perfect solution, but I do 118 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: think that once the two year old is a little 119 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: bit older, when he's like four or so, I think 120 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: he'll be able to because he's also a kid who 121 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: doesn't need sleep. Apparently, he and the then eight year 122 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: old nine year old will probably actually go to bed 123 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: around the same time and sleep about the same amount. 124 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: So that's going to work in the future, I believe, 125 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: but not now. So listeners, sounds like we would both 126 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: love you to weigh in on things that have worked 127 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: for you if you have kids that are sharing a room, 128 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: and how you how you customize the sleep hours and 129 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: bedtime routines and all that, because yeah, it sounds like 130 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: we still have some things to figure out. So our 131 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: main segment we've was also today coming from a listener question. 132 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: You want to read that one for us? Sure, Hi, 133 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,239 Speaker 1: Laurence Sarah. I am a position and had my daughter 134 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: when I had a little little over a year of 135 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: residency left. Wow, I never really heard guilt. I never 136 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: on that one for a moment of silence because that 137 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: is rough. And again, as I mentioned previously, I actually 138 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: never experienced that I had my first during fellowship, which 139 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: is definitely less intense than residency. So we'll just leave 140 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: that there. Okay. I never really had the mommy guilt 141 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: that's in quotes. I had heard about leaving her because 142 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: I had been pretty happy at work. What did take 143 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: me by surprise was the guilt I felt about how 144 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: my frequently long hours impacted my husband, who had to 145 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: do the bulk of the childcare during those periods. Because 146 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: of that, and because I wanted to spend the time 147 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: with her, I did pretty much all the daycare drop 148 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: offs and pickups, putting her to bed et cetera when 149 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: I was not in the hospital. Now, a couple of 150 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: months out of residency, I am still doing most kid 151 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: duty when we're home, even though my clinic hours are 152 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: now normal. I would like to split things more evenly 153 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: so that I have time in the evenings to do 154 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: the research and writing I will need to do to 155 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: advance in my field. But I still feel guilty about 156 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: asking him to do more that he shouldn't have to 157 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: do more child household stuff than he would if I 158 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: had picked a less intense career path. My husband, although 159 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: not a doctor, also has a pretty rigorous job, so 160 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: he is not jumping to volunteer to do the bedtime routine, 161 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: although he is a devoted dead and will take her 162 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: whenever I ask. I would love to hear how you 163 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: two approach the idea of what's fair when dividing responsibilities 164 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: with your husband. Oh my gosh, I have so many thoughts. 165 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: All right, let's hear them. My first thought is, I 166 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: always think it's very useful to take what you've written 167 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: and sort of reverse the genders and see how it 168 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: sounds to you and how many men would write something similar. 169 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: And I think the answer is very little. And therefore 170 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: we have to really look at, like, what is sort 171 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: of motivating some of these feelings, because how much of 172 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: it is coming from you know, what you feel like 173 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: you should do, and what is based on reality. So 174 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: that is my first thought. I'm like, I want to 175 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: just sort of like read this whole thing switched around 176 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: and see how we all hear it, because it would 177 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: sound very different. And then my other thought is it 178 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: really sounds like you have taken this role as default 179 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: parent unless I'm not there, And so to me, the 180 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: primary thing we need to figure out is how how 181 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: do you want to change that? And how could we 182 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: change that? Because it's really interesting how now that you 183 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: both have sort of reasonable jobs, you're still kind of 184 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: the one doing anything quote unquote unless you ask. Yeah, now, 185 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: the default thing is is I think what gets a 186 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: lot of women is it's not that you know your 187 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: husband is trying to be unhelpful or trying to be 188 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: some sort of neanderthal here, because clearly you would not 189 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: have married him if that was the case. Like, we're 190 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: not talking people who are under the impression that children 191 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: are women's work and they have no responsibility to that whatsoever. 192 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: I'm guessing like ninety nine percent of our listeners that 193 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: is not the case for But it's easy to become 194 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: the default parent, I mean just from things that happen, 195 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: like at the beginning, I mean, if you're the one 196 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: breastfeeding the kid, like, you wind up doing more of 197 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: the stuff because you're with them more. Maybe if you 198 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: have a maternity leave, if you're off for a couple months, 199 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: you wind up being like one who knows how to 200 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: do stuff, like you know the routine for getting the 201 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: kid down for nap, whereas if dad's been at work 202 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: the whole time, like he doesn't know the routine for 203 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: getting the kid down for nap. And it is just 204 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: all that stuff winds up playing out into mom becoming 205 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: the default. And since this couple had the default if 206 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: she was home, then she would do X and do 207 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: all the kids stuff, it becomes very hard to change 208 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: it now that she's home more because she's still doing everything. 209 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: I find that interesting, you know, it's a I think 210 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: honestly with stuff like that, I mean, one thing you 211 00:10:55,200 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: can do is disappear, because the default thing is about 212 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: both of you being there, and so you feel like 213 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: even if you're both there and you both want to relax, 214 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: they come to you because you're there, whereas if you're 215 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: not there, they can't do that. And dad can't sort 216 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: of automatically default to you either. And so for instance, 217 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: you could just have a conversation about that, be like, well, 218 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, this week, I really have this, you know, 219 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: crashing toward this deadline. I have two nights that I 220 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: would really appreciate being able to work late. So as 221 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: we talk about it, what two nights of the week 222 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: would it work for me to not be here for 223 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: you to cover and then you know, I will be 224 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,479 Speaker 1: home the other nights, And that seems like a relatively 225 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: reasonable thing to ask for, you know, especially if there 226 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: are seven nights in a week. You being gone too 227 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: gives five others that you are still there, but then 228 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: on those two nights you aren't the default, and then 229 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: you have the space to do that work that you're 230 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: trying to do to advance in your career path. Yeah, 231 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: because this person has a specific thing that she would 232 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: like to do, and in her case, she said she 233 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: wants to do more research and writing. So I agree 234 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: with you. I think that being like, well, Tuesdays and Thursdays, 235 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: I'll be home at eight because I'm doing research and 236 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: writing might help solve some of this. It still doesn't 237 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: quite sort of cure the default parent idea, but it's 238 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: a great strategy, but it helps, right because if a 239 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: couple nights a week, the parents, the kids know they 240 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: can't go to you, that they have to go to death, 241 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: then they become more comfortable with dad. Right, And the 242 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: more times they become comfortable with dad, the more it 243 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: is less of a default parent thing because they've seen 244 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: that Dad is actually perfectly capable of reading them their 245 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: bedtime stories and getting them their bath and whatever else 246 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: it is. And you know, I think pointing out to 247 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: the husband maybe that he could take the other couple 248 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: of the other nights, so so you know, in this 249 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: particular case, she is something she'd really like to do, 250 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: and her husband sounds like he's just sort of casually 251 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: hanging back. I don't know if he's tired because he 252 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: has a rigorous job, but maybe like sort of offer 253 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: something concrete to the husband, so like, oh, I heard 254 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: that you wanted to like start working out more, or 255 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: you wanted to you know, whatever he wants to do, 256 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: you wanted to read more? Like how about on you 257 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: know those other two days, Mondays and Wednesdays. Don't worry, 258 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: I totally got bedtime so that you can take that 259 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: time for you. I think that sort of making sure 260 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: and again this isn't about necessarily keeping score, but sort 261 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: of pointing out to the husband specifically that he's getting 262 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: husband time rather than letting it default kind of just flop, 263 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: you know, lie into place. However it happens, could be 264 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: really useful because then she will feel less guilty and 265 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: more justified in taking that time that she wants for herself. 266 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: And this word guilt is also interesting. One thing I 267 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: have found over the years between men and women. I 268 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: mean it's I think women often would like to not 269 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: to have to ask for things that they sort of 270 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: assume that things should go a certain way automatically, like 271 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: because having to ask is hard, you know, whatever, We're 272 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: socialized not to necessarily ask for things that we would like. 273 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: That's why many women have trouble ass for raises, for instance. 274 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: And but little, you know, boys are less socialized that 275 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: if you just think of something, like you know, in 276 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: many couples, the guy is the one who asks the 277 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: woman out first. He may have asked her to marry him, 278 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: like you know, little boys are actually socialized that you 279 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: do have to, in fact ask for what you would 280 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: like in life. And we don't grow up with that. 281 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: And so but the truth is Guys will tell you no. 282 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,119 Speaker 1: If they don't want to do something, they will absolutely 283 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: tell you no. Women will often be like, oh, he asks, 284 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: so I have to do it, Like no, that's actually 285 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: not true. The guy will tell you no, So you 286 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: should not feel guilty about asking, because he will tell 287 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: you no if he's not going to do it, So 288 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: you may as well ask for what you want and 289 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: again he might say no, but he might say yes too. 290 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: And then, you know, asking somebody to read your mind 291 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: about what you'd like is just not helpful. I mean, 292 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: why would that you know, so, don't feel guilty about asking. 293 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: And so when she says that he will take her 294 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: whenever I ask, then maybe you're just going to have 295 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: to ask for now and say, I think we need 296 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: to develop a different split so that I can do 297 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: my stuff and you can do your stuff occasionally. Let's 298 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: talk this out. Let's talk about what would be the 299 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: right split for us. And you know, this idea that 300 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: I feel guilty about asking, that he shouldn't have to 301 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: do more household stuff than he would have if I 302 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: have picked a less intense career path. I mean, that's 303 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: a very funny way of looking at it, because he 304 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: gets the upsides of your career path too, Like I'm 305 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: sure that you earn decent money right in an intense career, 306 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: let's hope so, right, Or you know that you have 307 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: interesting things to talk about and all that, and it's 308 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: just there's there's upsides for a career as well. It's 309 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: not just all bad news for him. Yeah, and a 310 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: shout out to our last episode, don't forget about that 311 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: third party option. So let's say you both do want 312 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: to do something on Wednesday nights, maybe that's your night 313 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: to plan for childcare on that night, or maybe there's 314 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: household stuff he really really hates, I don't know, like 315 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: cooking or loading the dishwasher, Like, maybe you can figure 316 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: out another answer to those other than either of you 317 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: as well. So that's something to talk about. Yeah, And 318 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: I would say another thing, because there are some households where, 319 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it's probably not going to be a 320 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: perfect split. And that probably is more the case in mind, 321 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: and there's a variety of reasons for that, and we've 322 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: gotten better about certain things over the years. But the 323 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: thing is, if you wind up doing more than a 324 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: fifty to fifty, the default should be fifty to fifty 325 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: so if one party is not, I guess the default 326 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: on a population level should be fifty to fifty. But 327 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: I would argue that actually the situation is going to 328 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: vary based on the choices that people are making. Like 329 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: in our house, it doesn't even though I outsource a ton, 330 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm not sure fifty to fifty is quite the ideal, 331 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: just because I actually don't physically have as many work 332 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: hours as my husband has. But I mean, I think 333 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: on a population level, I would it should be fifty 334 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: to fifty ideally, But I don't know that there should 335 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: be guilt about it being forty five, sixty or forty 336 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: Well that's yeah, yeah, it's an individual case. You know, 337 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: you shouldn't feel guilty about outsourcing some of this stuff 338 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: if the other party is not doing fifty to fifty, right, 339 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: because you're not outsourcing you, you're outsourcing him, right, And yeah, 340 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: so change that mindset. I mean, we've had some women say, well, 341 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, my husband works late every night. I feel 342 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: so guilty about getting a sitter so I could go 343 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: to the gym. It's like, again, you're not outsourcing you, 344 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: you are outsourcing him. If he doesn't feel guilty about it, 345 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: then why would you. I mean, it's his time that 346 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: he's lost with the kids, like it's not yours. H 347 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: So that's another way to view that perspective. And maybe 348 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: that's okay. You know, there is no right percentage for 349 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: any one household. One household, maybe you know forty percent 350 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: dad doing everything and thirty percent mom and thirty percent 351 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: an outside party, and there's going to be a different 352 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: sort of ratio. I just made that one up for 353 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: every single family. The question is have you sort of 354 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: in an unbiased fashion, thought about what works best in 355 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: your particular situation, and now you sort of have the 356 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: setup where you guys take different times of the day 357 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: and that works for you guys. Yeah, that works really 358 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: well for us. And that's been something that's evolved and 359 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: that we've like talked about, Like it's not even just like, oh, 360 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: it just kind of happened that way. It's like, Okay, 361 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: since I can't count on you to come home, I'm 362 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: not in a bad way, but like, since I don't 363 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: know when you're gonna get home, you know, I'm going 364 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: to be the real sort of routine evening parent so 365 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: that I'm always going to be home to greet the 366 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: kids by six o'clock at the latest, and I'm not 367 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: going to really plan on doing stuff for myself most nights, 368 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: so the nights can be yours. So if you'd like 369 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: to go to the gym after work, go for it. 370 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: And then you know, on the flip side, in the morning, 371 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: since I can't get that time at night, it's great 372 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: for me to be able to grab time in the 373 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: morning to work out or do a post, or prepare 374 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: for a podcast or you know, do the things that 375 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: I want to do to keep myself happy and sane. 376 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: And that has been sort of an intentional time split 377 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: for us that works really really well. Yeah, or if 378 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: one party travels a lot for work, for instance, the 379 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: party that is not should feel very unnguilty about asking 380 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: for time on the weekends, you know, I know in 381 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: our household, that's something that I've been a bit more 382 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: insistent about, like if I want to do something on 383 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: the weekends, I really don't. I mean, I asked my husband, 384 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: but I don't expect that he would be like, no, 385 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: you can't. And so I've done more stuff on the 386 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: weekends that I enjoy for fun, just because he is 387 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: traveling more often than I am, and so I feel 388 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: like that's fine. If you've been gone Monday through Thursday 389 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: and I've been the parent who's on during that, than 390 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: Friday through Sunday should be more your time. And you know, 391 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: I'm often using that time to work as well. It's 392 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: not like it's all, you know, fun and games, but 393 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: that is a split that we try to do, and 394 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: sometimes it works less well than others. You know, I 395 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: make sure that what is important to me still happens, 396 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: like the running, like joining a phrase, making sure that 397 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: what's important to you still happens. And to me that 398 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: that tells me, like it's not about keeping score, it's 399 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: not about hitting a specific number. It's like last weekend, 400 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: my husband's like, Okay, can I work for four hours 401 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: on Saturday? And I said sure, And I really, for me, 402 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: I didn't have anything specific I wanted to do on 403 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: the weekend other than I said, that's fine. I want 404 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: time to run both days, Like that's what I needed 405 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: that particular weekend. I didn't need a ton of like 406 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: sort of free time because I had had a day 407 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: off earlier in the week in that particular case, if 408 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: I did, I would have asked for that too. But 409 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: it's like figure out what you need and what you 410 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: want and and make those exchanges. They don't have to 411 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: be even, but they have to be thought about, and 412 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: you do. You are allowed to take time for yourself. Yeah, 413 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: and sometimes it might help to assign specific things to 414 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: a person as well and say, like, you are totally 415 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: responsible for this. So I had, you know, taken on 416 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the kids' activities and all the stupid 417 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: paperwork that comes home at the start of the school Oh, 418 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: my goodness, it's been ridiculous, right, And so I said, 419 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, I also happen to have two children who 420 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: have early fall birthdays, and so I get slammed with 421 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: this every year that we have parties at the same 422 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: time as we have started school all that, and it's 423 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: complicated because you don't know who's in their class, so 424 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: you don't know who to invite, and they don't get 425 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: the directory till October, which is after both of their birthdays, 426 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: and so, like, you know, it's always just a source 427 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: of stress. You know. At one point, my husband was like, well, 428 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: what are we getting Sam and Ruth for their birthdays? 429 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: And I was like, I Am not going to do that. Question, Like, 430 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: why don't you go by whatever you think. I'm glad 431 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: you brought it up. It means it's on your mind. 432 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: It's your mind. It's not going to be on my plate. 433 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: Like I have just enrolled them in ex zillion activities 434 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: and done all with that. And so the Amazon boxes 435 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: have been arriving fast and furious. And there was a 436 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: trip to you know, best Buy and wherever else over 437 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: the weekend to get something for the seven year old 438 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: he's turning eight. And you know, so that's done and 439 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: it's off my plate. And I just did do a 440 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: little something because I knew there was gonna be issue 441 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: with it. I just ordered a bunch of wrapping paper 442 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: from Amazon because I took a wild guess that that 443 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: wasn't something he thought about. But that was simple enough. 444 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: That was a two second phenomenon. It will show up 445 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: and that he can wrap the stuff too. So that 446 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: is off my plate. Assign a certain project, the kids 447 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: going to the dentist also not my project. He couldn't 448 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: make it at the time that they were scheduled for 449 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: most recently. He took that on himself to move it right. 450 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: He didn't say, oh, could you go take this? They 451 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: just moved it. And I was like, that's when I 452 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: know you've taken on fullerish responsibility for this activity rather 453 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: than just start tossing it at me. And you guys 454 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: do the dividing on weekends, who gets who has to 455 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: wake up early? Don't you? We do usually, that's that's 456 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: the idea. I mean, one of the I like to 457 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: run on weekends too, so sometimes I'm up early anyway. 458 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, but but then I make sure 459 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: that you know I'm I'm I mean, I'm gone, right, 460 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: I'll just go for a long who's on kid duty 461 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: in the morning? That's true. If you didn't want to sleep, 462 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: then that's one thing. Yeah, we do that too. And 463 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard from so many women who 464 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: are like, oh, I've never gotten a day to sleep in. 465 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: It's like, there's two of you. You could make that happen. 466 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: It's a reality. But don't. Don't just suffer right, just 467 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: you know, have that conversation before you go to bed, 468 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: and don't you don't even have to do it the 469 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: way like, oh, could you please get up with the 470 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: kid and be like, hey, tomorrow morning is your morning 471 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: to get up with the kids, and then wait and 472 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: see what happens. I mean, you know, he may grumble, 473 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 1: but if you say, like, you know, I did it 474 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: yesterday and the day before, you know, and then just 475 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: sit there again, like you have to develop the ability 476 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: to say. The guys will grumble, but then they will 477 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: come around to doing stuff, and often it just takes 478 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: them a little bit too. I don't know what it is. 479 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: I mean, this is probably not all guys or whatever. 480 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: But if you read men are from bars, women are 481 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: from Venus, there's some certain things that they'll grumble and grumble. 482 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: But if they're grumbling, that means they're considering it, and 483 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: then they do it. And then once it becomes their task, 484 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: then they become like you know, the hunter executing on 485 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: getting the you know, bison, Like they're gonna, you know, 486 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: make that happen in their way, and so you just 487 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: have to get to that point. I don't get tons 488 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: of grumbling, but I do think it's always just nice, 489 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: like when you're asking for that kind of thing to 490 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: be like I'll do Saturday and you do Sunday, and 491 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: then you just both get this lovely gift to look 492 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: forward to. So communication, right, yes, communication it really like 493 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: not being afraid. And I hope that this episode maybe 494 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: inspires the woman with the surgeon husband to maybe maybe 495 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: don't play the podcast for him because that might be 496 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: a little much, but to really have an open conversation 497 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: about all this, because part of me is just like, 498 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: you need to tell him exactly how you feel, because 499 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: like that's probably half the battle here, and yet we don't. 500 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: We don't always go there because it's hard. Yeah. I 501 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: don't think he was a surgeon. He was something else. 502 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: I forget what Oh sorry, Oh yeah, no, you're right. 503 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: The second question was the surgeon. The first one she 504 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: was the one who was residency and he had another 505 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: intense job. That's what we're talking about exactly. They need 506 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: to have like a intimate, like afternoon date where they 507 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: kind of talk about this with a lot of eye statements. Right, 508 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: we learned this from the lots of eye statements like pressure, 509 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: not in the moment when somebody wants something, but like, 510 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: you know, sort of a family meeting style discussion. I 511 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: think if there was more openness in a lot of couples, 512 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: that these these issues would get solved in a in 513 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: a in a more productive fashion and get rid of 514 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: the guilt about asking for what you need. I mean, 515 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: it's really sort of a pointless emotion. It's not going 516 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: to stamping out guilt. Stamping out guilt, that's what we're 517 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 1: all about here. So if this should bring us to 518 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: the our love of the Week segment here, which I 519 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: think we're gonna have to geek out on a little bit. 520 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: So Sarah, you just got a giant haul of something 521 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: this week. Yeah, So can we do a whole episode 522 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: on this future. I don't think I can stop myself, 523 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: but as as anybody who reads my blog, and by 524 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: the way, my blog is the shoe box dot com 525 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: t h E s h U b o X and 526 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: I've had multiple people say, no one's going to find you. 527 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: I figure people can google. But that's what it is 528 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: to you, Like Sarah Hart hunger. It's not shoe like 529 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: you wear on your foot, but it's a pleasure exactly right. 530 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: And if you want to see a lot more sort 531 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: of planner discussion and inspiration, you can go there. But 532 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 1: my love of the week is I am obsessed with 533 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: this Japanese brand of planners called hob They've been around 534 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: since two thousand and three, but really only became more 535 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: popular in the last five six years, and you have 536 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: to order them from Japan. They're made of this super 537 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: thin paper so that you can have a day per page, 538 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: but not have this giant brick that you carry around 539 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: with you. To me, they're like the most sort of 540 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: flexible and comprehensive planning system that you can possibly have. 541 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: And I really prefer bound to ring because the rings 542 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: always getting my way. I don't know if it's because 543 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm left handed or what, but these like lie perfectly flat. 544 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: I really, I just think they're just like otherworldly perfect. 545 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: So every year I make a big fun ritual out 546 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: of like placing my order, and I think a lot 547 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: of other fans do the same thing. And the company 548 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: totally builds it like all all they always release their 549 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: stuff on September first and all through August, like they'll 550 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: release one new tidbit of information like every day, so 551 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: that by the time you get to September first, you 552 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: just can't even help yourself and you order everything. So 553 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: I just got my box and I just cannot wait 554 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: to use this thing for next year. And it's very 555 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: beautiful and I'll have to discuss it more in details 556 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: because there's not just like one notebook here, like let's 557 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: be clear, there were exactly got to cover a week's 558 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: insert for anybody into this. The actual planner book, we 559 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: have a little auxiliary notebook. I don't get how that 560 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: works to have to leave the mothership from time to 561 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: time or like why, I mean it might be used 562 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: like next to the mothership, but then it's always stored 563 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: in the mother ship. Yeah, because if you want to 564 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: keep like sort of accessory lists, well, again, we will 565 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: have to do a whole episode because I would enjoy 566 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: doing it, although I almost feel like I need video 567 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: for that, but that's okay. But yes, that is my 568 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: love of the week. If you are in planner searching mode, 569 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: check out my blog because I do discuss some of them. 570 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: I'm trying to. I'm going to review a couple because 571 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't help myself, and I ordered at least one 572 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: other that I just wanted to look at and I 573 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,719 Speaker 1: just love talking about that stuff. So but you can 574 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: tell she's seriously the Hobunichi stuff because like, didn't you 575 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: have to order it and yen basically like you had 576 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: to do the Yes, well, their prices are in Yen, 577 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: I mean you can the website is completely in English, 578 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: like if you google who Hope at each you'll find 579 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: their website, and then if you find the Japanese website, 580 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: there's a little English chab at the top and it's 581 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: all translated into English, so that part is actually not 582 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: too difficult, but you do have to calculate the prices 583 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: in yend. The Japanese take their planners very seriously. But 584 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: but but this is the American version of it because 585 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: it starts in January, right, Like you didn't get the 586 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: one that starts in April, which is when, Yes, I 587 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: got the one that starts in January. And again I 588 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: don't want to geek out too much. They actually they 589 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: there's one that starts in April, but there's I do 590 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: get the one with the Japanese language, but that it 591 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: doesn't impede the use of it at all, Like all 592 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: the numbers aren't are easily readable, and some of the 593 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: headings are in English too. But the reason I get 594 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: that one is because there's that one's divided into two volumes. Anyway, 595 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: that's again I don't Yes, I'm not sure how many 596 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: people listening to That's even knew that most Japanese things April, like, 597 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: so why Japanese planners start in April. Yeah, that's seeking 598 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: your exactly what is your love of the week? Oh 599 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: my gosh, So I use just I'll talk about my calendar. 600 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: I just use this daymind or weekly calendar, which is 601 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: just this like spiral bound little you know, per size calendar. 602 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: And I do use a paper calendar because I like 603 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: to keep complete control of it. I don't like electronics 604 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: stuff that much. I don't want to look at it. 605 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: I just like writing stuff down and I can also 606 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: see if the day is getting too cluttered. I use 607 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: a just a regular notebook as a planner. I may 608 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: need to step up my game, we'll see. But I 609 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: have a system. So this is the problem. I have 610 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: a system, and I'm not sure that any commercially available 611 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: product would match my system. And I think in general, 612 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm not going to change my system. Like my system 613 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: works for me, and so I need something that works 614 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: for me as opposed to trying to, you know, plan 615 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: my life. According to the question is how much do 616 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: you care about the aesthetics of it all? Because I 617 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: care a lot and I'm not an underbuyer. Maybe you 618 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: don't care as much. Well, I care, but I care 619 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: in a sense of like I mean, I don't want 620 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: it to be a crappy notebook that, like you know, 621 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: is on the on sale at Target for you know, 622 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: two for a dollar or something. I wanted to have 623 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: a little bit harder of a cover, and I want 624 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: it to lay flat so I can open it and 625 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: writen it. Oh good, then I can bring you to 626 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: the dark side. You can bring me to the toxic. 627 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: But within that, like you know, there are commercially available, 628 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: like you know, less than twenty dollars stuff that you 629 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: can get that does yeah right, And there's a lot 630 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: of really pretty stuff actually that's that's at a lower 631 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: price point and that you don't have to order in 632 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: another curiously enough, so I ordered my Dayminder, like I 633 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: feel like it was two weeks ago. I ordered it 634 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: from the Dayminder website or at a glance I guess 635 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: at the parent company or whatever. It hasn't come yet. 636 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: I'm a little concert. I actually have to start filling 637 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: in dates for next year, Like I've booked a speech 638 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: in March, I booked something in January, Like, I gotta 639 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: get my calendar. This is not working. So we'll say 640 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: maybe that won't be a level of the week I 641 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: have to like call customer service. That will not be 642 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: love of the week at all. Okay, so this brings 643 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: us to our listener question of the week. So you 644 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: want to read that around with me too? Oh yeah, 645 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: let's do you because you have more of an answer 646 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: to this than me, because you have more children. Okay, 647 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: how did you or did you decide on the spacing 648 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: between your kids from your experience? Are there advantages to 649 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: having them closer together versus further apart work, life, balance 650 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: wise or otherwise. Yeah, there was not a whole lot 651 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: of real planning and involved in the spacing of my children. 652 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: Are If there was planning, it was planning that then 653 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: the universe didn't respect in the way that one might like. So, 654 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, obviously I was excited about having kid number one, 655 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: and I was I was lucky that, you know, when 656 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: when that happened relatively quickly after I wanted it to happen. 657 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to have number two relatively soon after that, 658 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: and got pregnant but miscarried, and so then there's more 659 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: space than between one and kid two. Then I ideally 660 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: would have liked. There's still only two years and five months, 661 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: but there are three grades apart in school, and you know, 662 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: I wanted them closer together. Kid two and three are 663 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: the ones that are most what I would have planned. 664 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: There almost exactly two years apart, although I got to say, 665 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: you may not want to have your kids exactly two 666 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: years apart. Maybe should go for like two years and 667 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: two months. You can spread out here now that I'm 668 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: dealing with this every fall. That the fact their birthdays 669 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: are like a week apart from each other. That you know, 670 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this works out. I'll get pregnant 671 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: at fifteen months. I could have them exactly two years apart. 672 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: Then you know, I pay for that every late September 673 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: when I have to do two parties. But then you're done. 674 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: That's when you're done. You only have one birthday season. 675 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: So yes, and so you know number four was a surprise, 676 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: shall we say that that had not actually been on 677 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: my radar, and then he arrived and I still have 678 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: not entirely figured out what happened there, but sometimes the 679 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: universe says that to you. And he's a really cool 680 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: little kid. So there's three years and three months between 681 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: number three and number four. It was right around the 682 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: time that she was two and a half years old. 683 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: My daughter was two and a half years old that 684 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: I learned that number four was on his way. But 685 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: I mean, what I would say with this is is like, 686 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: as you can tell from my story here, this is 687 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: really not something you can hundred percent plan. I mean, 688 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: it's really hard to play. It is really hard to pay, 689 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: and that could be really tough. I mean, especially for 690 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: people like us who are planners. Would be like, but 691 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: I would like to have a baby in July, so 692 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: I should get pregnant in October. It's like, yeah, you know, 693 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: if you can actually do that, like God bless you. 694 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: But most of us have not been able to either 695 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: because we weren't able to get pregnant when we wanted to, 696 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: or things happen accidentally, or it takes longer when you 697 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: when you want to, or you know it happens earlier 698 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,919 Speaker 1: than you want to, but you thought you should get 699 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: started because you didn't know when it would happen. And 700 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: it's if you are able to have roughly the number 701 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: of children you thought you wanted to and at roughly 702 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: the times you thought you should, you should just count 703 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: yourself lovely, be happy. Yeah, our story is similar. I 704 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: mean it took forever to have my first we started 705 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: trying in two thousand and nine January and I had 706 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: her in April twenty twelve, so that was long. And 707 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: then my second was like a surprise right after that. 708 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: And I will say it was a little hard with 709 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: them being slightly less than two years apart. So I'm 710 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: actually really looking forward to round three not having a 711 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: toddler to chase around. Maybe I'll find out that actually 712 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: there are other challenges that come with that. So I 713 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 1: agree with Laura. Very hard to plan, and I do 714 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: think once you're ready, like, don't wait longer than you 715 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: need to, because it might take longer than you think 716 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: to actually make it happen. Yeah, no, that's that's true. 717 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: I mean, and from the work life perspective, I mean, 718 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: because I think somebody has been asking about that, Like 719 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, from work life balance. I think a lot 720 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: of women do find it difficult to have two right 721 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: next to each other, just because as you're not entirely 722 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: back at everything from kid one when they then are 723 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: with the pregnancy of number two and then dealing with 724 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: a second leave if you have that. But obviously if 725 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: you want to make it work, you will, But many 726 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: people find that that taking that second leave and that 727 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: second sort of slow down shortly after the first one 728 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: makes it a bit harder to come back. And there's 729 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: also some element of choice in that too many women 730 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 1: do decide to scale down things after kid number two 731 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. It's more of a lifestyle choice, 732 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: but some women it's because it has been more difficult 733 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: to do. I think from a health perspective, I mean, 734 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: Sarah may have to answer more of this. I think 735 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: there are some benefits maternally. I've read that like between 736 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: two and three years is the absolute like healthiest window 737 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: so that your body can recover between the two. And 738 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: I will say I was like really anemic with my second, 739 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: and I think it was because it was so close 740 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: to my first. And then I just got my labs 741 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: from this one. I'm like, wow, even though I'm old, 742 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: my numbers are actually way better. So that's interesting. It 743 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 1: is hard on your body to have a baby, and 744 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: then if you do it right, and being reminded of 745 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: that right now, that's you're reminded of that. But the 746 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: thing is, I mean, honestly, so even though it might 747 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: be ideal to have like at least three years from 748 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: a health perspective between the kids, Like you know, if 749 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: you start late enough, that's not actually an option if 750 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: you want to have a bigger family, and so I 751 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: mean you should just you know. There will be upsides 752 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: and downsides either way. I mean, there's efficiencies of having 753 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: them close together. There'll be better friends perhaps growing up, 754 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: they can do more things. At the same time, you'd 755 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: be more able to pass close down and toys down 756 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: between them. But if they're farther apart, you might have 757 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: more energy for the baby when you are not chasing 758 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: a toddler, for instance, and maybe your body will be 759 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: more recovered, and your career maybe at a different place 760 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: where you can you know, sort of enjoy more of 761 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: that having built up the capital in between pregnancies as well, 762 00:37:54,239 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: so your mileage may vary. Awesome, all right, Well, that 763 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: what has been episode nine. We were looking at this 764 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: episode on how to achieve a fifty to fifty split, 765 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: or if not a fifty to fifty split, a split 766 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: you are happy with when it comes to child raising 767 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: and household stuff. We are also talked briefly about our planners, 768 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: which we're going to have to do a whole episode 769 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: on that, and talking about kids facing So we'll be 770 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: back next week with more. Thanks so much for tuning in, 771 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 772 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 773 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 774 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 775 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 776 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: life work together.