WEBVTT - Making Joy a Priority at Work 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.760 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:13.960 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so we want to 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.920 talk um about joy in the workplace. It's actually something 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.560 you and I talk about so much that, um, you 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.720 kind of need that when you're doing your job to 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.319 really I think, make it as good as as it 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.200 can be. So creating creating joy and positivity in the workplace. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.760 It sounds basic and yes, and yet it is really important. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.520 Alex lewis Chairman imagining partner at Carney UH and he's 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.240 here to talk about a specific movement, joy at work. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.080 That's the movement. And he's in our Bloomberg Interactor Broker 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:45.760 studio here in New York. Nice to have you here 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.680 with us. Thanks, Alex. I mean it, like Jason, I 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.040 talked about it all the time. It's like really sad 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.040 if you're surrounded by people who don't enjoy what they're doing, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.720 and it really kind of takes you down. Um, And 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.280 so we think about that a lot. Tell me about 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.160 this movement and and and a little bit more about 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.560 the thinking behind this. Sure, No, I mean I think 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.960 about there's such untapped energy in the workplace and positivity 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.600 as you mentioned um. To me, the term joy at 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.440 work means a true and authentic and deep alignment with 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:22.200 the whole Hawaiihuai and who of the workplace. When you 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:26.160 think about being on a championship athletic team, right they're 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.040 pursuing a championship, or you think about the first workplace, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.360 which is a seven year old of the playground. They 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.280 don't care about who you are, what color, what gender. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.720 They want to climb the jungle gym. Why if we 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.560 had that same level of purpose, alignment, passion in the 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:45.039 workplace we um, don't we already? Well? I mean think 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.120 about it. We've got all these sort of silos and 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.640 matrices and layers and kpi s and things that prevent 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.400 you from being yourself and understanding true connectivity with with 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.760 your colleagues. Now, when we we did some research on this, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.400 because it's not just some millennial movement here. We want 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.240 workplace justice, we want purpose. I mean that's something we 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:08.040 all want. We looked at companies all all age groups, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.519 baby boomers, millennials, generation next. There's a joy gap. There's 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.960 a gap between what they expect from work. I mean, 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:15.840 you spend half your time, a lot of your energy 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.760 and anxiety there but only actually get it. So it's 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.720 like a fift gap across all cohorts. So it's an 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.920 issue that that that is more more human than it 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.360 is demographic. I mean, it's a it's a huge opportunity 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.639 to change. And was it always this way or did 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.000 we lose it along the way? Well, I mean, I think, 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.520 you know, I think UM companies have complicated things. I mean, 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.320 you think about what you want from work over the 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.680 playground or an athletic team. You want harmony, you want acknowledgement, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.079 you want impact, so you want on the harmony side, 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.200 you want roll clarity. Look at these big companies that 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.960 have huge complicated matrices, be us that or you know, 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.079 competing with each other versus the customer acknowledgement. This whole 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.359 diversity and inclusion. People want to feel like they can 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.119 be yourself. Being yourself is good enough. Bringing your best 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.080 self is even better. You know, we had a conversation 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:12.519 last week about something like open environments at workplaces good 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.639 or bad? Do you think in terms of creating joy 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.600 and positivity? You just got about forty seconds and then 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.679 we'll take a break and come back and talk more. Yeah, 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.080 I mean, I think the physical helps the mental, but 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.480 more importantly, it's the hidden, it's the hidden collaboration that's 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.480 that's uh the problem. I mean, if you look at 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.200 any workplace, it's not just how they move interact physically. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.280 It does reinforce us a feeling of connection. But if 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.760 you're stigmatized, if you don't feel like you belong, if 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.760 you feel isolated, there's an epidemic of of mental health 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.920 and isolation and disillusionment. And you don't get that just 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.320 by meeting people in the workplace. You have to deal 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.520 deal with a sense of belonging. Carol Master along with 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.840 Jason Kelly here on Bloomberg Business Week. Alex Alex lou 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.480 is our guest. He's chairman and managing partner at Carney 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:54.200 and he joins us in our New York studio, and 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.280 we're talking about joy at work, the movement, and I 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.840 do wonder if there's differences in terms of workers who 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.680 are urban workers working in major cities, and whether or 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.840 not there's more joy less joy versus maybe out in 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.000 the suburbs or out in the Midwest where space is 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.600 more open and it's not maybe in a major city. Yeah, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.280 I mean, I think what we're talking about is trying 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.000 to overcome a sense of isolation and alienation. And I 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:21.919 think you pointed out earlier Jason, which is, you know, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.440 in an ironically, in a world of such connectivity, hyper 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.600 connectivity five G in the rural networks, there is an 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:33.240 epidemic of mental illness and health and isolation and suicides 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.919 and like so. And if there's no connection in the 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.680 city where you're already connected, you know, you you need 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:40.719 to you need to be able to have more than 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.159 just a technology and your location to define your sense 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.200 of belonging. Um. A lot of the workplaces now are 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.479 actually remote, you know, so you don't need to have 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.520 your your colleagues next to you, side by side with you. 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.920 And does that help or her, well, I think there's 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.440 probably some reinforcement. I mean, our research shows that people 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.799 are more connected in the common purpose, whether you're side 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:03.400 by side them or not. It's not just sort of 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.279 joint workspaces that we work. I mean you have to 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.080 have a real sense of a teamwork that is beyond borders. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:10.880 I mean, our company is a global company. We have 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.720 connectivity twenty four hours a day in various countries. Were 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:15.640 not together, but we worked together with a common purpose, 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.320 whether it's a project or a situation. UM the sense 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.640 of being having roll clarity, knowing what your role is 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.840 in the team, UH, knowing how to contribute, and being 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.080 acknowledged for your impact. I mean that those are the 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.680 key factors that determine whether or not you feel satisfaction, belonging, inclusion, 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.520 and ultimately ultimately joy at work. We're here with Alex Lude, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.160 chairman managing partner of Carney. We're talking about joy at 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.280 work and I want to, you know, over the next 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.120 few minutes Alex sort of go down to level and 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.600 understand what can we do. What's the practical advice? Because 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.560 you know, Carol and I, as she said at the top, 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.640 like we talked about it all the time. We talked 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.359 about it among our team. We talked about what you know, 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.240 we can do candidly like with each other and and 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.800 to to really inspire this. What's some practical advice here? 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.280 I mean, ultimately, it's about your commitment to the people agenda. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.960 And I think the employees, the staff, your colleagues are 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.880 all looking for leadership to show the passion around these 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.920 topics that we have great programs around. It's diversity and inclusion, 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.560 it's training, it's job rotation, it's apprenticeship, UM. But you 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.159 need to hear from the top and there needs to 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:23.760 be some clear commitment to that. I mean in my 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:25.880 own company, one of the first things I did when 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.760 I took over this role was the dial initiative Diversity, Inclusion, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.360 Apprenticeship and Leadership dial it Up. We put this into 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:37.159 everyday conversation, we resource programs UM. We supported that by 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.400 focus on values. You've got to have reasons why people 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.200 connect with each other. So for us, it's very simple. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.159 What you know that there's often you know, multiple layers 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.039 sometimes in terms of management that still exists. So what 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.159 if you know the guy or girl at the top, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.120 you know there isn't a lot of joy that's coming 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.840 from that individual, you know, how do you counter that, 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.760 especially when in a lot of places you've got business 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.760 to aeams or like in our place, we have showed 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.240 units like how do you then can you can you 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.280 create joy if it isn't coming from the top by 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.160 just kind of the lower level managers? Yeah, Carol, I mean, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.680 I think layers in complexity always get in the way 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.120 of human interaction, and I think one of the responsibilities 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.400 of any leader is to create followership. I mean that's 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.680 sort of the definition of leadership, right, And if you 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.080 don't have open, transparent communications, if you don't actually lay 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:25.520 out this is what I care about, or this is 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.640 what we care about. Uh, we care about more than financials, 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.240 you know, we care about a broader purpose. You know, 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.400 A lot of the discussion around stakeholder capitalism kind of 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.760 supports that, but it's always been there under the surface. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.120 Do you care about us as people? Do you care 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:43.520 about us having lifelong employment, not just employability, not just 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.440 lifetong employment at this particular company. Um. So that shines 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.360 through in the way you communicate, how regularly you communicate 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.840 um and and the ways you communicate with your with 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.800 with your with your audience is internally you know, we 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.480 have you know, I have a seven you know, scalex 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.200 anything yam er site. Now that's not that's just for me. 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.080 Where a professional services firm, we can't you know, we're 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.480 not a manufacturing site with all kinds of different walls 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.760 and boundaries. You know, we can do that in a 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.960 people business, and you can do that in the media business. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.960 And so how do you find that this synthesizes with 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.240 people's desire to have a life outside of work to 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:26.480 you know, sort of create a much more holistic in 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.640 the in the true sense of the word, sort of 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.320 life where work is a part of it, but it's 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.280 not all of it. I think that's two two parts 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.320 of that, Jason. First, I think you're right in pointing 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:38.439 out that work life integration is key. I mean, there 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.160 are so many ways of working now. You can work 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.440 from home, and every company in the world is adapted 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.319 to that. But feeling a part of a larger group 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.400 is the important thing. The other piece of the equation 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.520 is joy and work should not be, you know, be 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.520 counter opposites to each other. I mean, you say, I 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.120 gotta work, I gotta get you know, put up with 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.719 these eight hours, and I'm gonna have a bad day 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.640 and I'm gonna come home and kick the dog. That 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:01.600 is a exactly not what you want. I mean, you 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.640 want to have joy and work together. And this is 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.880 all about the sort of having the sense of acknowledgement 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.360 that you can bring yourself and actually be yourself, your 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.160 best self and accomplish a broader purpose, whether it's getting 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.760 that client victory, whether it's you know, winning some sort 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.319 of championship equivalent or analogy in a company setting, it's 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.760 not just graduate. Well, I just I wanted to follow 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:24.840 up on that for a second, because you talked to 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.520 a lot of CEOs. I mean, these are your your clients. 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.959 You talk to I'm guessing a lot of hard charging CEOs, 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.000 and they read or hear about what you're doing, and 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.560 they're basically like, seriously, I want you to make me 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.480 more profitable. I want you to get my sales up. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.320 I want you to make my organization more productive. That's 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:44.520 why I hired you. I don't want to hear about this. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.440 I think it's another narrative. I think the best CEOs 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.600 out there that I've seen, UH see that in order 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.960 to reach the full potential of what their business objective is, 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:54.960 what their mission statement is, you've got to reach. You've 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.160 got to have all the people pulling the capabilities of 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.440 the company have to rise and in hand. You can't 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.560 be hiring and firing people all the time. That's not 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.240 that kind of world. You want people who are committed 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.840 to the job, to the tasks, to training the next 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.960 generation of employees. So I don't I don't see them 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.800 as saying no, this is counter to the business mission. 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:19.359 In fact, it's quite supportive. Um, you know, retention economics. 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.199 If you're happy employees, you have happy customers, I mean, 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.520 the whole drill. And if you've got bureaucracy, no one 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.000 likes bureaucracy. I mean that's beneficial of the bottom line, 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.560 the time to serve, the cost to serve, the number 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.400 of people involved in approving decisions. I mean, come on, so, 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.960 so what do you do with employees that don't have 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.439 a lot of joy in them in terms of their job? 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.320 Like what do you do in the instance of maybe 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.080 somebody who actually is a great performer but they're not 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.000 so much fun to be around or something like that, Like, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.400 how do you then deal with that? Well, again, listen, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.080 the purpose of all you know, direct supervisors and leaders 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.240 have to be to find the best ways to make 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.000 the team work better. Now, if this person is in 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.160 the wrong job, they don't have the right capabilities, which 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.200 happens a lot. I feel like rotation training, there's much 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.280 more of a commitment to different types of training, online training, 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.880 job rotations. Within a division um skill development, we do 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.760 a lot of online degree training basically where you get 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.400 authenticated and certified on all kinds of skills, whether it's 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.440 a I of whether it's a digital analytics type of tools. 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.880 So having the ability for the employer to re certify 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.120 and upscale your existing workers so they have another challenge, 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.200 they'll get more adventure when you learn. I mean it's 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.680 it's actually a neuroscience. The fact that you know your 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.800 parts of your brain when it discovers something new and 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:33.680 it's trying to learn new things actually gives you a 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.280 shot of dopamine in writing the right and that's kind 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.320 of a hit. And so there's ways of actually getting 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.880 the employees to perk up by actually showing you care 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.920 about their development al Right, So to that point, you 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.160 went exactly where I wanted to go for sort of 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.760 the last couple of minutes, which is can you measure this? 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.200 Like how do you measure success? Because again I'm going 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.040 back to like the potentially like grumpy CEO, who you 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.400 come in and you're you know, giving this great feel 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.480 uh and with like diversity, like you know that they've 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.760 made the business case that having diverse boards or diverse 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:08.040 employee base that companies actually find, you know, perform better financially. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.200 So can you measure joy? Yeah? Yeah, I mean, the 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.400 best way that measure it is to actually ask your 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.280 employees how they feel. I mean, employee satisfaction I think 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.520 is an imperfect measure. It's kind of static, and it's 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.760 actually not aspirational enough or inspirational enough. What we do 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.640 is actually, twice a year we ask all employees, right 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.160 from the most junior to the most senior, eighteen simple 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.600 questions about belonging, a sense of inclusion, purpose, And there's 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.559 this algorithm the back that basically says, boy, your global engagement, 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.720 your sense of justice, your sense of happiness and joy. 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:41.720 I mean, they do all kinds of alignment, and you know, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.880 cross tabbing and things. So there is a way to 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.000 measure it by asking very simple questions. You don't need 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.520 to go into the giant cross tab exercise interesting market research. 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.640 It needs to be regular and it needs to be 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.440 shown that the leaders are looking at this. The first 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.439 time we did this, you know everyone did it. Okay, fine, 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.959 you can write in one thousand verbatims. The next time 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.680 there were three thousand verbatims because they knew that we 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.719 would listen and actually take action of the things that 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.320 would make the workplace better. Or haven't you thought of that? 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.360 It's just showing listening helps you. It is amazing. That's 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.000 actually huge with everything. That's great, all right, thank you 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.040 so much. Alex Loud, Chairman managing partner over at Carney. 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.720 He is a leader at the Joy at Work movement 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.080 Derrick Carney, advising CEOs all around the world about it. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:23.600 I love it.