1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so we want to 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: talk um about joy in the workplace. It's actually something 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: you and I talk about so much that, um, you 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: kind of need that when you're doing your job to 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: really I think, make it as good as as it 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: can be. So creating creating joy and positivity in the workplace. 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: It sounds basic and yes, and yet it is really important. 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: Alex lewis Chairman imagining partner at Carney UH and he's 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: here to talk about a specific movement, joy at work. 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: That's the movement. And he's in our Bloomberg Interactor Broker 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: studio here in New York. Nice to have you here 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: with us. Thanks, Alex. I mean it, like Jason, I 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: talked about it all the time. It's like really sad 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: if you're surrounded by people who don't enjoy what they're doing, 16 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: and it really kind of takes you down. Um, And 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: so we think about that a lot. Tell me about 18 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: this movement and and and a little bit more about 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: the thinking behind this. Sure, No, I mean I think 20 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: about there's such untapped energy in the workplace and positivity 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: as you mentioned um. To me, the term joy at 22 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: work means a true and authentic and deep alignment with 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: the whole Hawaiihuai and who of the workplace. When you 24 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: think about being on a championship athletic team, right they're 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: pursuing a championship, or you think about the first workplace, 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: which is a seven year old of the playground. They 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: don't care about who you are, what color, what gender. 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: They want to climb the jungle gym. Why if we 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: had that same level of purpose, alignment, passion in the 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: workplace we um, don't we already? Well? I mean think 31 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: about it. We've got all these sort of silos and 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: matrices and layers and kpi s and things that prevent 33 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: you from being yourself and understanding true connectivity with with 34 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: your colleagues. Now, when we we did some research on this, 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: because it's not just some millennial movement here. We want 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: workplace justice, we want purpose. I mean that's something we 37 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: all want. We looked at companies all all age groups, 38 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: baby boomers, millennials, generation next. There's a joy gap. There's 39 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: a gap between what they expect from work. I mean, 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: you spend half your time, a lot of your energy 41 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: and anxiety there but only actually get it. So it's 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: like a fift gap across all cohorts. So it's an 43 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: issue that that that is more more human than it 44 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: is demographic. I mean, it's a it's a huge opportunity 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: to change. And was it always this way or did 46 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: we lose it along the way? Well, I mean, I think, 47 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think UM companies have complicated things. I mean, 48 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: you think about what you want from work over the 49 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: playground or an athletic team. You want harmony, you want acknowledgement, 50 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: you want impact, so you want on the harmony side, 51 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: you want roll clarity. Look at these big companies that 52 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: have huge complicated matrices, be us that or you know, 53 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: competing with each other versus the customer acknowledgement. This whole 54 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion. People want to feel like they can 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,119 Speaker 1: be yourself. Being yourself is good enough. Bringing your best 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: self is even better. You know, we had a conversation 57 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: last week about something like open environments at workplaces good 58 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: or bad? Do you think in terms of creating joy 59 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: and positivity? You just got about forty seconds and then 60 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 1: we'll take a break and come back and talk more. Yeah, 61 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the physical helps the mental, but 62 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: more importantly, it's the hidden, it's the hidden collaboration that's 63 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: that's uh the problem. I mean, if you look at 64 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: any workplace, it's not just how they move interact physically. 65 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: It does reinforce us a feeling of connection. But if 66 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: you're stigmatized, if you don't feel like you belong, if 67 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: you feel isolated, there's an epidemic of of mental health 68 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: and isolation and disillusionment. And you don't get that just 69 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: by meeting people in the workplace. You have to deal 70 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: deal with a sense of belonging. Carol Master along with 71 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: Jason Kelly here on Bloomberg Business Week. Alex Alex lou 72 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: is our guest. He's chairman and managing partner at Carney 73 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: and he joins us in our New York studio, and 74 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about joy at work, the movement, and I 75 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: do wonder if there's differences in terms of workers who 76 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: are urban workers working in major cities, and whether or 77 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: not there's more joy less joy versus maybe out in 78 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: the suburbs or out in the Midwest where space is 79 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: more open and it's not maybe in a major city. Yeah, 80 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I think what we're talking about is trying 81 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: to overcome a sense of isolation and alienation. And I 82 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: think you pointed out earlier Jason, which is, you know, 83 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: in an ironically, in a world of such connectivity, hyper 84 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: connectivity five G in the rural networks, there is an 85 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: epidemic of mental illness and health and isolation and suicides 86 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: and like so. And if there's no connection in the 87 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: city where you're already connected, you know, you you need 88 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: to you need to be able to have more than 89 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: just a technology and your location to define your sense 90 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: of belonging. Um. A lot of the workplaces now are 91 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: actually remote, you know, so you don't need to have 92 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: your your colleagues next to you, side by side with you. 93 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: And does that help or her, well, I think there's 94 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: probably some reinforcement. I mean, our research shows that people 95 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 1: are more connected in the common purpose, whether you're side 96 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: by side them or not. It's not just sort of 97 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: joint workspaces that we work. I mean you have to 98 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: have a real sense of a teamwork that is beyond borders. 99 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: I mean, our company is a global company. We have 100 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: connectivity twenty four hours a day in various countries. Were 101 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: not together, but we worked together with a common purpose, 102 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: whether it's a project or a situation. UM the sense 103 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: of being having roll clarity, knowing what your role is 104 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: in the team, UH, knowing how to contribute, and being 105 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: acknowledged for your impact. I mean that those are the 106 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: key factors that determine whether or not you feel satisfaction, belonging, inclusion, 107 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: and ultimately ultimately joy at work. We're here with Alex Lude, 108 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: chairman managing partner of Carney. We're talking about joy at 109 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: work and I want to, you know, over the next 110 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: few minutes Alex sort of go down to level and 111 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: understand what can we do. What's the practical advice? Because 112 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: you know, Carol and I, as she said at the top, 113 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: like we talked about it all the time. We talked 114 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: about it among our team. We talked about what you know, 115 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: we can do candidly like with each other and and 116 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: to to really inspire this. What's some practical advice here? 117 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, it's about your commitment to the people agenda. 118 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: And I think the employees, the staff, your colleagues are 119 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: all looking for leadership to show the passion around these 120 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: topics that we have great programs around. It's diversity and inclusion, 121 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: it's training, it's job rotation, it's apprenticeship, UM. But you 122 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: need to hear from the top and there needs to 123 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: be some clear commitment to that. I mean in my 124 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: own company, one of the first things I did when 125 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: I took over this role was the dial initiative Diversity, Inclusion, 126 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: Apprenticeship and Leadership dial it Up. We put this into 127 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: everyday conversation, we resource programs UM. We supported that by 128 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: focus on values. You've got to have reasons why people 129 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: connect with each other. So for us, it's very simple. 130 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: What you know that there's often you know, multiple layers 131 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: sometimes in terms of management that still exists. So what 132 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: if you know the guy or girl at the top, 133 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: you know there isn't a lot of joy that's coming 134 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: from that individual, you know, how do you counter that, 135 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: especially when in a lot of places you've got business 136 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: to aeams or like in our place, we have showed 137 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: units like how do you then can you can you 138 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: create joy if it isn't coming from the top by 139 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: just kind of the lower level managers? Yeah, Carol, I mean, 140 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: I think layers in complexity always get in the way 141 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: of human interaction, and I think one of the responsibilities 142 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: of any leader is to create followership. I mean that's 143 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: sort of the definition of leadership, right, And if you 144 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: don't have open, transparent communications, if you don't actually lay 145 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: out this is what I care about, or this is 146 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: what we care about. Uh, we care about more than financials, 147 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: you know, we care about a broader purpose. You know, 148 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: A lot of the discussion around stakeholder capitalism kind of 149 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: supports that, but it's always been there under the surface. 150 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: Do you care about us as people? Do you care 151 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: about us having lifelong employment, not just employability, not just 152 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: lifetong employment at this particular company. Um. So that shines 153 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: through in the way you communicate, how regularly you communicate 154 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: um and and the ways you communicate with your with 155 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: with your with your audience is internally you know, we 156 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: have you know, I have a seven you know, scalex 157 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: anything yam er site. Now that's not that's just for me. 158 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: Where a professional services firm, we can't you know, we're 159 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: not a manufacturing site with all kinds of different walls 160 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: and boundaries. You know, we can do that in a 161 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: people business, and you can do that in the media business. 162 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: And so how do you find that this synthesizes with 163 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: people's desire to have a life outside of work to 164 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, sort of create a much more holistic in 165 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: the in the true sense of the word, sort of 166 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: life where work is a part of it, but it's 167 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: not all of it. I think that's two two parts 168 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: of that, Jason. First, I think you're right in pointing 169 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: out that work life integration is key. I mean, there 170 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: are so many ways of working now. You can work 171 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: from home, and every company in the world is adapted 172 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: to that. But feeling a part of a larger group 173 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: is the important thing. The other piece of the equation 174 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: is joy and work should not be, you know, be 175 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: counter opposites to each other. I mean, you say, I 176 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: gotta work, I gotta get you know, put up with 177 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 1: these eight hours, and I'm gonna have a bad day 178 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna come home and kick the dog. That 179 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: is a exactly not what you want. I mean, you 180 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: want to have joy and work together. And this is 181 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: all about the sort of having the sense of acknowledgement 182 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: that you can bring yourself and actually be yourself, your 183 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: best self and accomplish a broader purpose, whether it's getting 184 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: that client victory, whether it's you know, winning some sort 185 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: of championship equivalent or analogy in a company setting, it's 186 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: not just graduate. Well, I just I wanted to follow 187 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: up on that for a second, because you talked to 188 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: a lot of CEOs. I mean, these are your your clients. 189 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: You talk to I'm guessing a lot of hard charging CEOs, 190 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: and they read or hear about what you're doing, and 191 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: they're basically like, seriously, I want you to make me 192 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: more profitable. I want you to get my sales up. 193 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: I want you to make my organization more productive. That's 194 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: why I hired you. I don't want to hear about this. 195 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: I think it's another narrative. I think the best CEOs 196 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: out there that I've seen, UH see that in order 197 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: to reach the full potential of what their business objective is, 198 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: what their mission statement is, you've got to reach. You've 199 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: got to have all the people pulling the capabilities of 200 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: the company have to rise and in hand. You can't 201 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: be hiring and firing people all the time. That's not 202 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: that kind of world. You want people who are committed 203 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: to the job, to the tasks, to training the next 204 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: generation of employees. So I don't I don't see them 205 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: as saying no, this is counter to the business mission. 206 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,359 Speaker 1: In fact, it's quite supportive. Um, you know, retention economics. 207 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: If you're happy employees, you have happy customers, I mean, 208 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: the whole drill. And if you've got bureaucracy, no one 209 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: likes bureaucracy. I mean that's beneficial of the bottom line, 210 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: the time to serve, the cost to serve, the number 211 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: of people involved in approving decisions. I mean, come on, so, 212 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: so what do you do with employees that don't have 213 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: a lot of joy in them in terms of their job? 214 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: Like what do you do in the instance of maybe 215 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: somebody who actually is a great performer but they're not 216 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: so much fun to be around or something like that, Like, 217 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: how do you then deal with that? Well, again, listen, 218 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: the purpose of all you know, direct supervisors and leaders 219 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: have to be to find the best ways to make 220 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: the team work better. Now, if this person is in 221 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: the wrong job, they don't have the right capabilities, which 222 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: happens a lot. I feel like rotation training, there's much 223 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: more of a commitment to different types of training, online training, 224 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: job rotations. Within a division um skill development, we do 225 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: a lot of online degree training basically where you get 226 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: authenticated and certified on all kinds of skills, whether it's 227 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: a I of whether it's a digital analytics type of tools. 228 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: So having the ability for the employer to re certify 229 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: and upscale your existing workers so they have another challenge, 230 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: they'll get more adventure when you learn. I mean it's 231 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: it's actually a neuroscience. The fact that you know your 232 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: parts of your brain when it discovers something new and 233 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: it's trying to learn new things actually gives you a 234 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: shot of dopamine in writing the right and that's kind 235 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: of a hit. And so there's ways of actually getting 236 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: the employees to perk up by actually showing you care 237 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: about their development al Right, So to that point, you 238 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: went exactly where I wanted to go for sort of 239 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: the last couple of minutes, which is can you measure this? 240 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: Like how do you measure success? Because again I'm going 241 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: back to like the potentially like grumpy CEO, who you 242 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: come in and you're you know, giving this great feel 243 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: uh and with like diversity, like you know that they've 244 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: made the business case that having diverse boards or diverse 245 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: employee base that companies actually find, you know, perform better financially. 246 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: So can you measure joy? Yeah? Yeah, I mean, the 247 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: best way that measure it is to actually ask your 248 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: employees how they feel. I mean, employee satisfaction I think 249 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: is an imperfect measure. It's kind of static, and it's 250 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: actually not aspirational enough or inspirational enough. What we do 251 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: is actually, twice a year we ask all employees, right 252 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: from the most junior to the most senior, eighteen simple 253 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: questions about belonging, a sense of inclusion, purpose, And there's 254 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: this algorithm the back that basically says, boy, your global engagement, 255 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: your sense of justice, your sense of happiness and joy. 256 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: I mean, they do all kinds of alignment, and you know, 257 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: cross tabbing and things. So there is a way to 258 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: measure it by asking very simple questions. You don't need 259 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: to go into the giant cross tab exercise interesting market research. 260 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: It needs to be regular and it needs to be 261 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: shown that the leaders are looking at this. The first 262 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: time we did this, you know everyone did it. Okay, fine, 263 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: you can write in one thousand verbatims. The next time 264 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: there were three thousand verbatims because they knew that we 265 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,719 Speaker 1: would listen and actually take action of the things that 266 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: would make the workplace better. Or haven't you thought of that? 267 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: It's just showing listening helps you. It is amazing. That's 268 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: actually huge with everything. That's great, all right, thank you 269 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: so much. Alex Loud, Chairman managing partner over at Carney. 270 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: He is a leader at the Joy at Work movement 271 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: Derrick Carney, advising CEOs all around the world about it. 272 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: I love it.