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Speaker 1: Happy belated birthday, Chipper, thank you. How was your actual birthday?

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Speaker 2: It was really good. It was pretty chill. I have

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Speaker 2: already felt very celebrated. I still have text messages to

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Speaker 2: respond to the Instagram messages.

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Speaker 3: Yeah so, but no, it was good.

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Speaker 2: It was just a regular workday, and then I had

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Speaker 2: dinner with a couple of friends.

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Speaker 1: Were you in this office on your my fake office?

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Speaker 1: If anybody is watching on YouTube, Chip is still stuck

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Speaker 1: in this fake Zoom office in Camp Rock.

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Speaker 3: I cannot figure it out. This is also weird.

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Speaker 2: Look, I just noticed that if I go behind the microphone,

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Speaker 2: it looks like a point.

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Speaker 1: Now, why does your mic disappear into the wall.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea, because it's not moving.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is really bizarre. I don't even know. For

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Speaker 1: the people listening, I'm sorry, but Chip was just in

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Speaker 1: some weird alternative universe. It's odd.

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Speaker 2: I put it for those who didn't hear me bitching

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Speaker 2: about it. Last week, I put a virtual background on

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Speaker 2: my Zoom and I cannot get it. And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: it's driving me crazy because I'm not a dummy and

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Speaker 2: I can figure these things out, and I'm doing exactly

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Speaker 2: what I'm supposed to be doing, but it's not working,

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Speaker 2: and so I'm like stuck with his background until.

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Speaker 1: It's also a funny background for you because it's so

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Speaker 1: not you, Like, it's a very corporate looking office building

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Speaker 1: that's beautiful, but just not at all like your life.

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Speaker 3: Right, not at all.

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Speaker 2: It kind of looks like our offices in Los Angeles

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Speaker 2: and my coworker, this is kind of what his background

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Speaker 2: looks like. And I did it as a joke to him,

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Speaker 2: and now I'm stuck with it.

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Speaker 3: No jokes on me.

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Speaker 1: That's what you get. Maybe he wants mercury retro good

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Speaker 1: retrograde finishes. You'll be able to figure it out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I hope.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, this week on the podcast, I had fertility expert

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Speaker 1: Rachel Swanson on and Chip and I were talking and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know what we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about because the topic is fertility, and I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I'm a person who had an unsuccessful fertility journey. You're

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Speaker 1: a gay man, Like, what are we going to talk about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're clearly the experts.

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Speaker 1: On the topic exactly, And so you go, what if

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Speaker 1: we talk about not having kids? And it was so

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Speaker 1: so simple that it shook me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like like, oh my god, I love

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Speaker 2: that idea. And I was like, wow, Well.

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Speaker 1: Because if you really think about it, nobody talks about

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Speaker 1: not having kids except I will say, Chelsea Handler, maybe

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Speaker 1: she is really funny about it. She'll make really funny

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Speaker 1: videos of things that she does as a woman in

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Speaker 1: her fifties without children, and they're laugh out loud funny,

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Speaker 1: like she's always like smoking weed at eight am, and

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Speaker 1: you know, but it's basically like she's like, I'm living

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Speaker 1: my life. I'm doing whatever I want at all times.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of just like that she owns it,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was really good. But but I do

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Speaker 1: think it's a really important conversation to have because we

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Speaker 1: kind of have this like one fits all mentality about this,

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Speaker 1: and it's not discussed that there are other options, and

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Speaker 1: it's not that other people aren't living different ways or

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Speaker 1: not having kids, but we just don't talk about it

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Speaker 1: when there's no children involved. We only talk about it

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Speaker 1: when there's parenting and children involved. Have you noticed that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. We just have this like very boxed

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Speaker 1: in view, I think, and so obviously on this podcast

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Speaker 1: we talk often about everyone being on their own specific

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Speaker 1: journey and different journeys, and that everybody's here for different reasons.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm like, how have we not talked about

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Speaker 1: this part of it, like what it looks like to

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Speaker 1: not have children as an adult. I'm forty three, you

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Speaker 1: just turn fifty. Either of us have kids, right, So

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Speaker 1: we actually do know about this topic.

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Speaker 3: And we do know about this side of the topic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny because I, in my gut, no

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Speaker 2: I would be a great parent. Wheish she would be

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Speaker 2: a great parent, and I've wanted to be, but I

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Speaker 2: never it was never a be all end all for me.

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Speaker 2: Like my sister, all she ever wanted to be was

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Speaker 2: a mom, you know, like is she wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a mom so bad? And you know, as a gay

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Speaker 2: man like I, there is no accidents for me to

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Speaker 2: end up with a kid. My sister's first kid was

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Speaker 2: an oopsie date. Like she you know, got pregnant very

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Speaker 2: early accidentally, and because she was I think thirty six,

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Speaker 2: she her first kid. She had sort of late in life,

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Speaker 2: and she was all of her friends had kids at

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Speaker 2: that point, and she was like, I'm keeping this baby,

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Speaker 2: you know, whether we stay together or not. So I

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Speaker 2: don't think it was the accident that she made it

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Speaker 2: out to be. I think it was probably pretty calculated.

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Speaker 2: But I bring that up because there are you know,

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Speaker 2: there are some I mean, in fact, I was an

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Speaker 2: accidental pregnancy. My parents wanted to have another kid, but

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Speaker 2: they weren't planning to have one that early. So but

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Speaker 2: that piece of the equation does not exist in my world.

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Speaker 2: So there was never a chance that I could accidentally have.

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Speaker 1: A kid except for oh, I see what you're saying, college, right.

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Speaker 2: And thank god I didn't at that point. Life would

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Speaker 2: be very different if.

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Speaker 1: Your girlfriend from outback steakhouse i'd gotten knocked up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. Well it's interesting because I told you that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I was in a similar way. I

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Speaker 1: was never the young girl that dreamed of being a mother.

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Speaker 1: Like I definitely had those friends who were like, I

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Speaker 1: want to get married and I want to get have

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Speaker 1: a kid, and like planned it out. I think I

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Speaker 1: started thinking that I wanted that because I'm from the

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Speaker 1: Deep South, like in Louisiana, that's what everyone does, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I just kept feeling like in my life, I'm

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Speaker 1: not ready yet, but I will want to and I

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Speaker 1: will get there and whatever. And so then I got

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Speaker 1: into my late thirties and we talked about this on

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Speaker 1: the podcast Wednesday. But when you when you turn thirty five,

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Speaker 1: like as a girl, you go to the Guano every

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Speaker 1: year for your annual you know, and when you turn

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Speaker 1: thirty five. I just remember my kind of like sitting

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Speaker 1: down on her stool and she like slides in front

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Speaker 1: of me, and she it was this very like tense

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Speaker 1: kind of feeling in the room, and she was like,

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Speaker 1: have you thought about if you want to have children

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Speaker 1: or not? And I was like, oh, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe one day, whenever the time's right. And she was like, well,

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Speaker 1: at this stage where you are in life right now,

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Speaker 1: at thirty five, if you got pregnant, it would be

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Speaker 1: considered high risk because it would be a geriatric pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, geriatric. Yeah, they need to rethink it, because

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Speaker 1: it's just like geriatric I associate with like being way

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Speaker 1: later in life when I need to wear adult diapers

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Speaker 1: and like, you know, I can't function, Yes, but like

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Speaker 1: thirty five is still very young, and so it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't really dawn on you. But I swear to God,

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Speaker 1: it's something about like the second someone tells you might

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Speaker 1: not have the option anymore. The panic sets in, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you probably had a different experience with this because

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Speaker 1: you might have had to grapple with this like way

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Speaker 1: earlier in life than I did. But at that point

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what, like it might be taken

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Speaker 1: off the table, and then all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 1: just have this urgency of like, Okay, yes, I've got

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Speaker 1: to do this now. I was not in a place

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Speaker 1: in my life. I was not in a good relationship

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Speaker 1: to do that. I wasn't like career wise focused on that,

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Speaker 1: and so then the alternative for me became like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well I'll freeze my eggs. I didn't really want to

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Speaker 1: do that. Like when I look back now, I know

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to do that. It was very hard

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Speaker 1: on my body. You know, I'm very sensitive. During the process,

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Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't going to work. Like when I

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Speaker 1: was doing it, I knew. I just had this like

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Speaker 1: knowing about it, and so it was like injecting myself

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Speaker 1: with all these hormones that were, you know, super harsh.

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Speaker 1: It made me feel terrible, Like my body still has

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Speaker 1: probably never felt the same since I did that. Because

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Speaker 1: I did it twice. But there was something in me

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Speaker 1: too that was just like, you have to do this,

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Speaker 1: So I disregarded all the knowing that I had and

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Speaker 1: like went that way.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure, I'm sure some of it was external shame,

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Speaker 2: you know, the shame that you carry because of the

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Speaker 2: external pressures, whether you were aware of it in that

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Speaker 2: moment or not. But like everyone else thought you should

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Speaker 2: have a baby, So why didn't you think you should

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Speaker 2: have a baby?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: So well, and then there's there's so many parts to it.

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Speaker 1: So like, as a woman, and we talked about this

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday too, you're kind of taught that that's the

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Speaker 1: big thing that your body can do.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like this creation and it is such a beautiful,

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Speaker 1: intricate process. Like I also mentioned with her that we

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Speaker 1: don't talk about the fact that pregnancy and birth goes

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Speaker 1: well so often is kind of shocking when you really

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Speaker 1: learn all the things that have to go right, like

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Speaker 1: it is a miracle. And women's bodies do crazy cool

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Speaker 1: things that they can life like this and hold the life.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's wild. And so there's the physical part

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Speaker 1: of it that makes you go, Okay, well, I must

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Speaker 1: be like deficient because my body can't do this. And

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Speaker 1: there was a ton of shame that I had with that.

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Speaker 1: And I also talk about this like I've always just

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Speaker 1: worked really hard to get the things that I want,

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Speaker 1: and so the fact that I couldn't work hard to

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Speaker 1: do it was wild, Like it was so it's so

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Speaker 1: you're so powerless in so many ways. Even if I

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Speaker 1: was taking like taking a step to do something bold

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Speaker 1: like freeze my eggs, that feels like you're going to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, taking your power back. But then it wasn't working,

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Speaker 1: and so it's just like, wait, what I'm injected Now.

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Speaker 3: There's a different kind of shame. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's this shame. But then also you have

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Speaker 1: to really like I had to really quiet my mind

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Speaker 1: about and also grieve honestly, because I had so much

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Speaker 1: fear that I was going to look back when I turned,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I'm in my sixties and stuff and

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Speaker 1: just wish that I had kids. And the truth is,

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Speaker 1: there's probably a part of me that will like, there's

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Speaker 1: a part of me that still can get kind of

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Speaker 1: sad about it sometimes, and there's a part of me

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Speaker 1: that knows, wasn't the journey that I was supposed to

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Speaker 1: go on in this life.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, I think it's I think it's you know,

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Speaker 2: kids and kids, car living in a foreign country. There's

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Speaker 2: a million things that like sound like it would be.

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Speaker 3: Nice to have or have done or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And I do think we'll all look back and be like, God,

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Speaker 2: I wish I had lived in a foreign country some

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Speaker 2: point in my life, or I wish I had a

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Speaker 2: kid or whatever it is, it got a dog or

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Speaker 2: a cat. But I think, you know, unless it's like

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Speaker 2: a complete aching inside of you currently, then the answer

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Speaker 2: is probably that you don't need those things or you

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Speaker 2: never really needed those things. And I've definitely had you know,

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Speaker 2: as a gay man, when I was living in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: I had some friends that were like going down the

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Speaker 2: adoption path and the surrogate path. You know, California actually

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Speaker 2: does allow even single gay men to adopt kids because

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Speaker 2: there's so many kids in the system that without like

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Speaker 2: going really wide, it's the kids are just going to

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Speaker 2: flounder in the system. And you know, there's also there

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Speaker 2: is the government provides assistance for foster families or adoptive

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Speaker 2: families to help cover for medical and things like that,

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Speaker 2: because you know, I never really thought that I was

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Speaker 2: at a place financially where I could take care of

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Speaker 2: anyone but myself, right, And but I you know, if

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Speaker 2: I had a noopsie daisy, like straight people, can you

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Speaker 2: figure it out? So I was trying to ignore that

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Speaker 2: bug in the back of my mind and did start

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Speaker 2: to explore, like what would it be like and what

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Speaker 2: would the possibility be? And then it was more for me,

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Speaker 2: it was more about like my life's it didn't really

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Speaker 2: fit in my lifestyle, like everything would have to change

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Speaker 2: so much, plus being single, like I would have had

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Speaker 2: to go from a zero from one hundred to the

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Speaker 2: zero because I wouldn't be able to travel and do

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Speaker 2: the things and have the same job, especially at my

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Speaker 2: income level, because I'd have to have care, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so but it was also like I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to regret it either, like you know, because I was

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Speaker 2: getting older and I definitely knew that I did not

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Speaker 2: want to have I didn't want to be sixty five

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Speaker 2: years old and have like a senior in high school,

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Speaker 2: you know. Like but that said, you know, if something

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Speaker 2: happened to anyone that I know and I needed to

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Speaker 2: take their child and care for them for the rest

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Speaker 2: of their life.

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Speaker 3: I would do it.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't think twice about it, and I would figure

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Speaker 2: it out, and you know, feel very like blessed.

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Speaker 3: To have that opportunity, but I don't feel like I

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Speaker 3: need to force it at this point in my life.

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Speaker 3: The world is overpopulated anyway.

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Speaker 1: Well, didn't you read a stat about this about how

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Speaker 1: there what are the differences between? Because I'm glad we're

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Speaker 1: having this conversation and the reason I wanted to have

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Speaker 1: it is because I've had two women reas simply open

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Speaker 1: up to me about their own kind of journey with this.

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Speaker 1: And they're in their late thirties, just like I was

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Speaker 1: when this started happening with me, and they both said

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Speaker 1: to me, I don't think I want kids. It's never

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Speaker 1: felt right to me. But all of a sudden, I'm

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Speaker 1: going into this panic and I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: totally get it. And I think that that time of

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Speaker 1: a woman's life is very specific to that if you

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Speaker 1: don't have kids because of the pressures that you get

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Speaker 1: from society, from doctors, from the option being taken, you know,

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Speaker 1: from what our bodies are doing aging wise, and I

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Speaker 1: just want to kind of normalize that there are other

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Speaker 1: options and talk about my experience now, which is that

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Speaker 1: I don't have any regrets, and like, honestly, the couple

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Speaker 1: times where I've thought, because I think I'm going into

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Speaker 1: PERIMENOPAUSI in my periods a little more irregular, and the

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Speaker 1: couple times I've thought, oh my god, am I pregnant?

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Speaker 1: I panic? Now like I've really like accepted the fact

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Speaker 1: that I don't I'm not going to have kids. And

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Speaker 1: once you accept it and grieve it and do all

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Speaker 1: the things, like it would be a lot. There was

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Speaker 1: to be so much, like you were saying, so much

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Speaker 1: in my life that would have to change that I

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Speaker 1: don't want to change now. You don't want to change

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Speaker 1: on a plane on a whim, and yeah, do the

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Speaker 1: things I want to do or when I need to

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Speaker 1: go reset, like being in my house by myself. You know,

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Speaker 1: like there's things there are benefits too, and we just

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Speaker 1: don't talk about those. But I feel like it's happening

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Speaker 1: more than we know.

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Speaker 3: So what are you, Well, it's actually on the uptick

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Speaker 3: and I've.

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Speaker 1: Not having kids, not having kids.

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Speaker 2: The percentage of households in America is going up, which

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, we've seen some of this in

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Speaker 2: politics too, where they're trying to get people to have babies.

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Speaker 2: But before I read the statistics, there is a caveat that,

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Speaker 2: like you know, not having children, it covers multiple things,

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Speaker 2: like it includes the people that never intend to who

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Speaker 2: those who like might later, those who have tried and can't.

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Speaker 2: Maybe some people are delaying, but either way they all

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Speaker 2: sort of get lumped together in these stats. But among

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Speaker 2: this is from Axios. Among US adults under fifty who

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Speaker 2: do not have children, forty seven percent in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: three say they were not likely to or not likely

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Speaker 2: at all to ever have children, and that's up from

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Speaker 2: thirty seven percent in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: That's ten percent up.

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Speaker 2: Ten percent up in five years. In twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: by Pew Research Center, young adults younger than fifty who

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Speaker 2: don't have children and are likely to not have them,

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Speaker 2: fifty seven percent say that the major reason is they

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Speaker 2: just don't want kids, while thirty six percent site that

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Speaker 2: they can't afford to raise a kid and that's the

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Speaker 2: major reason. And then this is a statistic from just

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Speaker 2: the Census women ages thirty to thirty four in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four, about forty percent were childless which is up

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Speaker 2: from twenty nine percent ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Women twenty five to twenty nine. Childlessness rose from about

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Speaker 2: fifty percent in twenty fourteen to sixty three percent in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: Four Well, yeah, for sure, people are having kids later.

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Speaker 1: As one thing, it is just kind of wild to

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Speaker 1: think about. Like my mom was twenty four when she

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Speaker 1: got pregnant with me, and then I think she turned

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Speaker 1: twenty five like a month after. I The thought of

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Speaker 1: having a kid at that age, I was a disaster. Right.

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Speaker 1: The fact that my parents had me at that age,

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Speaker 1: like you're still a kid is how we consider it nowadays.

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Speaker 1: It's like sitting a twenty five year old like this

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Speaker 1: is some of the artists that I keep working with

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Speaker 1: that I'm telling you, I'm like, they're babies, they're that age.

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Speaker 1: That's how what my parents were when they were having me,

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Speaker 1: Like how were they gonna know how to raise a child?

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Speaker 1: I mean their children themselves? You know, at wild is wild.

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Speaker 1: So it definitely is like I think it's positive in

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Speaker 1: a way that it's moving to later, But the problem

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Speaker 1: comes in with the fertility these stuff, and I mean

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Speaker 1: with women, men can have babies. Look at fucking Appacino,

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Speaker 1: He's like eighty two kids. It's just like, of course, why.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that to me is like irresponsible.

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Speaker 1: But as adults we probably know more and like have

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Speaker 1: more wisdom and financial stability or just stability in your

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Speaker 1: life in general, relation would get older everything. I mean

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Speaker 1: like that seems like a positive thing in that way.

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Speaker 1: The physical part of it, I think is probably a

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Speaker 1: little bit harder.

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Speaker 2: What's interesting too is just as you know, as we

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Speaker 2: evolve as humans, like we're living longer too.

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Speaker 1: Well, sure, so we used to have to have kids younger, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: everything is younger. Yeah, when people are more work driven

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Speaker 1: now I think than.

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Speaker 2: They we're about it used to be more about building

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Speaker 2: because you needed kids to work on your farm and

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Speaker 2: tender courses and yeah, you know, do all the things

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Speaker 2: just to survive.

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Speaker 1: Right. But then the part about like from twenty eight

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Speaker 1: I think it was twenty twenty three, the big dip

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Speaker 1: in people having kids at all. It's like, if you

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Speaker 1: really think about what's happening in our world, no fucking

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Speaker 1: wonder I mean, like, would you want to bring a

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Speaker 1: kid into this chaos that's been our world for the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years? You know, like if I was

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Speaker 1: in in the age of considering having a child, I

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Speaker 1: might wait a minute and be like, let me see

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Speaker 1: how this thing plays out a little bit. Just because

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Speaker 1: of what's happening on like a global level, there just

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Speaker 1: feels like there's so much chaos. I mean, that's just me,

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Speaker 1: but that dawned on me when you were giving that.

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Speaker 2: Stat It's funny too, because I feel like I am

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Speaker 2: surrounded by kids in this town. You do, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: lots of Like I feel like people on my street,

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Speaker 2: they're all younger parents than me, you know, like raising

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Speaker 2: their kids.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing is like at twenty five, like,

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Speaker 3: how do you afford to have a kid?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I know it's expensive.

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Speaker 2: Kids are not cheap, no, but I guess you know,

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Speaker 2: your lifestyle shifts since you know your money's not going

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Speaker 2: towards you traveling on the weekends and like going to

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Speaker 2: have fun.

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Speaker 3: But it is really fucking expensive. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: people do it.

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Speaker 1: I really well, I think. Okay, So there's another thing

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say is like I don't know where

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Speaker 1: this came from in me, but I've always been very

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Speaker 1: realistic about what being a parent is, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's like from observing my parents or just

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Speaker 1: some sort of knowing that I have. And I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people because we do it in a

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Speaker 1: way we do it in our society where like you said,

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Speaker 1: girls are giving baby dolls from day one, and we're

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Speaker 1: just like we kind of create the same thing we

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Speaker 1: do about love with this baby thing, like this little

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Speaker 1: fantasy world. Not to say that they're not wonderful, beautiful

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Speaker 1: experiences with children. I totally believe that and see that,

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Speaker 1: and it's a beautiful thing to have a child and

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Speaker 1: be a parent and all of that. But I think

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Speaker 1: like we have to be realistic too. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who I see almost resentful now, are

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Speaker 1: like ugh, being a parent, you know, because they weren't

403
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Speaker 1: realistic about what that experience is and who suffers about that,

404
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Speaker 1: the child because like maybe you're not fully able to

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Speaker 1: show up or whatever. And I've just always been very

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Speaker 1: realistic about like how my life would need to change

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Speaker 1: if I did have a child, so that I was

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Speaker 1: being fair to the child and a present parent and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. And then how like my finance is

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Speaker 1: like where I'm spending my money, Like I wasn't going

411
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Speaker 1: to be. You know, I wouldn't be eating out at

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Speaker 1: the places I go to all the time, or shopping

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Speaker 1: as much or things like that, like because you got

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Speaker 1: to say for tuition and you know, like the realities

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Speaker 1: that are not sexy and they're not fantasy. I have

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Speaker 1: always had this thing in my brain that thinks through that,

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Speaker 1: and I think we need to talk about this stuff

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Speaker 1: so that we are making conscious decisions in our lives

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Speaker 1: and not just doing things because it's programming and what

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Speaker 1: we've been taught is the way to have a quote

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Speaker 1: unquote successful life.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think you boil it down to just

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Speaker 2: like mind you business. You know, that's kind of like

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Speaker 2: I know, that's, you know, not a very heavy way

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Speaker 2: of putting it, but it's in the same way that like,

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Speaker 2: I don't want people putting their expectations of any part of.

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Speaker 3: My life on me.

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Speaker 2: Like I want to be able to do what I

429
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Speaker 2: want to do, and if that we're having children, like

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Speaker 2: I would want to do that really well. And I

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Speaker 2: don't think that I ever have been in a place

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Speaker 2: where I believed that I could do it really well.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, then I'm not going to do

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Speaker 2: it because the consequences are grave if you fuck it up.

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Speaker 2: And I look, I think the world is a really

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Speaker 2: it's I look back and I'm like, thank god I

437
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 2: never had a kid, because I.

438
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 3: Wouldn't want I don't want to leave this world to

439
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: a child.

440
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 2: I worry about my nieces and what the world's going

441
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 2: to be like and how crazy things are, and even

442
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: just think it's going to normalize a bit, but I

443
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 2: mean even just with technology and things like, like, we

444
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 2: can't even imagine what our they'll be struggling with when

445
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: they're our age. And when you think how far technology

446
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: has come just in our lifetime, Oh gosh, Yeah, it's

447
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 2: just the growth and change and the way that humans interact.

448
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: Or he's going to be so different in fifty years

449
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 2: and that's terrifying to me to like leave someone behind

450
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: that we'll have to grapple with that. Whereas I do

451
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 2: think fifty years ago when my parents were having kids.

452
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 2: Not that the world was perfect back then, but the

453
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: world was a lot more simple. We weren't as connected

454
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,239
Speaker 2: to each other constantly, So you know, someone that was

455
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: looking to have a child, their worldview was a lot smaller,

456
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 2: Like it was like you thought about your neighborhood and

457
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 2: that was kind of it, and your kid going off

458
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 2: to college maybe one day. But now there's so many

459
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: other fears in the world has shifted so drastically that

460
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: I would have to believe that that's playing into these

461
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 2: percentages going up.

462
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: Yes, people just can't fathom how to do it or financially.

463
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: I just think there's a lot more factor in the

464
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: process of it. And there are people saying, hey, I

465
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: don't have to have kids. I think back in the

466
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: day it was way more. That is definitely what you did,

467
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: got married and have kids, you know, and very structured.

468
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: Everyone lives in that same box. But I do think

469
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: it's interesting just from the last two conversations I have,

470
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: and I can only speak from the female perspective obviously,

471
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: and the pressure that it is from this lens. And

472
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: so for any women listening, like if this is a

473
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: debate for you, you have to trust your gut. Like that's

474
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: like literally the thing I said to both of those

475
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: girls is I was like, you have to listen to

476
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 1: your own body and not to anyone else's voice about this,

477
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: not even to my voice. This is very much like

478
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: a personal experience, and that's all I want to have

479
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: these kind of conversations for is so that we start

480
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: treating them that way versus the one size fits all thing,

481
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: because that goes across the board, Like I mean, I

482
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: want to talk about that in every way, shape and form,

483
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,239
Speaker 1: about jobs, about love, but also about kids and what

484
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: family looks like. And I think we can redefine that

485
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: to be many different things, Like if you were to

486
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 1: have a kid, I mean you would be a dad

487
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: for a kid, and then if you had a partner,

488
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: they would have another dad, you know, and that's a

489
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: different experience. And so there's that perspective. And then you

490
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: brought up earlier too like some people, like some game

491
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: in are in places like they can't adopt, So what

492
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: is that? You know, Like there's a whole different experience.

493
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: But for me, it was more about finding my identity

494
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: as a woman without doing that, Like who a am

495
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: I without that? The truth is same as you said earlier,

496
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: Like you know you would be a good parent. I

497
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: know I would be a good mom, Like I definitely

498
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: know I could do that. And I also think I

499
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: use that energy in a lot of different places in

500
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: my life currently, so like it's not that the energy

501
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: of mothering and nurturing went away in me. It just

502
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: goes to different places, and there's so many more places

503
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 1: that we can put that energy versus just with a child.

504
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: If if your experience is like mine and you can't

505
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: have kids or things like that, so it doesn't make

506
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: you deficient. It just means like your life journey is

507
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: something different, and take that energy and figure out where

508
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: you want to put it.

509
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: I wish that we could come up with a way

510
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: to end the very early social pressures of having children.

511
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,239
Speaker 1: Well, I think we just have to talk about it

512
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: like that.

513
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we do.

514
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: I mean I think this is a good start. But

515
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 2: how do we get rid of like baby dolls and stuff?

516
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: But there is animals, yeah, I know, they're fun.

517
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: All the other toys that have gone away because of

518
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: political whatever. It's just weird too because it's like I

519
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: think we are taking it too far sometimes because it

520
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: can be fun as a kid. Like, I don't know

521
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: that we have to like go so extreme and get

522
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: rid of stuff. I just think we have to offer

523
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: the other things too, Like right, here's one way you

524
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: could go what feels right to you, that's what that's

525
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: how you choose is how do you want your life

526
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: to look and we all know inside of us, if

527
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: we really get quiet with ourselves, you do know. It's

528
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: just do you want to listen to it? And do

529
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: you want to trust that?

530
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: And do you want other people to know what you want?

531
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, because sometimes that's because really got your grandmother

532
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: breathing down your neck for a or your parents breathing

533
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: down your neck for your their grandbabies. Well, there can

534
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: be so much shame if you're just like like one

535
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: of the girls I was talking to was like, I

536
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: just you know, they have houses in two places, and

537
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: she was talking about when she's in Nashville because it's

538
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: the South and she doesn't have as many friends here

539
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: and she doesn't like there's not as much for her

540
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: to do here. She's like, I find myself feeling this

541
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: like pressure of oh, I should we should have kids,

542
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: we should do this. And then when she's at their

543
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: other place out west, she like, I'm living my life.

544
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 1: I'm doing the things. I'm like so happy and it

545
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: never even dawns on me. And I was like, I

546
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: think you have your answer. It's just right. It's just

547
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: like this odd pressure that we get. So yeah, I

548
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: think the shame can get to all of us and

549
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: make you start reconsidering your own knowing because you're like, wait,

550
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: what's wrong with me? Or not wanting to say out

551
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: loud to someone else, Like I think a lot of

552
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: times people without kids are deemed selfish, and it's like

553
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: you don't know me, you don't actually know anything about

554
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: me to ever say that or that, Like we don't

555
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: get it, we don't get how hard life is or whatever.

556
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: And it's like everyone has different shit, So I can't

557
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: take that with parents, Like your life isn't so much

558
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: harder than mine. It's different hard there's different hardships. We

559
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: all have different things. I've lived in a time with kids,

560
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: like I was in a relationship where there were kids involved.

561
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: So I'm very aware of what it is. I always

562
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: have been, though, I've always been aware of like the

563
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: sack vices, the time, the demands, the reality. Honest, it's

564
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: a lot, it's a ton. I agree, and that is

565
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: what their soul wanted this lifetime. My soul had different

566
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: plans for different.

567
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 3: Last time, like.

568
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: Kids or something. Yeah, yeah, Like I don't know. Maybe

569
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: that's how I know what the reality of parenting is

570
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: from a different lifetime, you know, like we just don't know.

571
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: But anyway, all that is to say is I want

572
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: to normalize the conversation for anyone listening that is feeling

573
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: the shame, feeling like who would I be? Will I

574
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: look back and regret it, like there are a lot

575
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: of emotions with it, and process the emotions. That's really important.

576
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: And also make sure you're tuning the most into your

577
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: own knowing, your own desires, your own gut about the situation,

578
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: and not anyone else's because it is a completely personal experience.

579
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: I am extremely happy in my life without kids at

580
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: forty three. I feel no shame about it, and I

581
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: feel I don't feel less than anymore, Like I just

582
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: know that this is what I'm here to do, and

583
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: like we're sitting here right now having this conversation. I

584
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: feel like this is part of my mothering, Like energy

585
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: is people, you know, Like that is part of where

586
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: I put that energy. And I don't know that I

587
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: would be able to do this podcast if I had kids.

588
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: You would be getting a million questions.

589
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: Why is the time?

590
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also too, like I feel like it's important

591
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: to make the distinction between you know, I feel like

592
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: a lot of people think that those who don't have

593
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: kids just hate kids.

594
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean kids at all.

595
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: No, I love kids. I love being around kids. I

596
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: want to be a kid my whole life. I don't

597
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: ever want to have to grow up. But I just

598
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: don't think that I would have done, you know, at

599
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: least up until this point in my life. I don't

600
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: think I would have done a kid of justice being

601
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: the parent, even though.

602
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: Oh, you're a really good uncle.

603
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: I'm a great uncle here. Yeah.

604
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the exactly everything you just said. You're the

605
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: funkal Yeah. Yeah, and that's a perfect dynamic for you.

606
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

607
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: For now, it could change.

608
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 3: I could end up with a kid, that surprise kid.

609
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 3: One day. We'll see.

610
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: God, if you knocked up some girl, I would be

611
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: like them.

612
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: The just that was my goal for twenty twenty six.

613
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: Just well, we said our intentions at the beginning of

614
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: the month in January.

615
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 3: You're like, my word of the year is going to

616
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 3: be like impregnate what do they call it? Where? Uh reproduce?

617
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I like impregnate, pregnate, impregnate because it's so

618
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: not you, right, You're just going to impregnate life with

619
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: all your pregnate What is Anyway, if you, guys, if

620
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: this resonates at all, I know for some of the

621
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: women out there listening, this has to resonate. And I

622
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: know also it can be such an isolating feeling. So

623
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: if you ever want to talk about it, or you

624
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: have any thoughts that you want to share with me,

625
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: you can always email us at the Edge at velvetsedge

626
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: dot com, or you can slide into my DMS on Instagram.

627
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: I'm at Velvet's Edge, Chip.

628
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: I'm at Chip doors. It's h I P D O

629
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: R S C H.

630
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: Did you see in your birthday video that I put

631
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: that in the couch? If anyone was reading the caption

632
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: like why should put all these dashes in his name?

633
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: That is why it was supposed to be that. Anyway,

634
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad you had a good birthday.

635
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 3: Thank you.

636
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad you could go out because you didn't have

637
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: kids and you didn't have to get a babysitter. Set

638
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: those perks right there. Right as you guys go into

639
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: the weekend and you're living on the edge, I hope

640
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: you always remember

641
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: Too A casual bye bye