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Speaker 1: A five year old little boy seemingly goes missing, vanishing

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Speaker 1: into thin air, nothing left behind but an open door.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Lucas? Take a listen to this nine

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Speaker 1: one one call, one location the emergency fund. Where's your son?

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Speaker 1: He's gone? When did he? Do you open? It wasn't long,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't lines one five? Here, ma'am, good god, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: How old is your son? But he was far five

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Speaker 1: years old? Someone take him? Did he want off? Man?

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Speaker 1: I don't know who you are? Hearing a nine one

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Speaker 1: one call, A frantic caller, the little boy is gone?

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Speaker 1: Where is Lucas? Let's take another listen to that nine

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Speaker 1: one one call? What is your son's name? Luca Lucas?

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Speaker 1: And he said he's five years old? Here he's five

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Speaker 1: years old? Is he white? Black? Hispanic? Asian? He's white?

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Speaker 1: Told he's got some Mexican canned him. No mean, he

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Speaker 1: said he's path Mexicans. Yes, okay, that's fine. How poll

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Speaker 1: is he? So? I don't I really, I don't worry

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Speaker 1: if that's fine? As etha meeting more heavy builds. He's

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Speaker 1: a little little old, Okay, do you remember what he

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Speaker 1: was wearing? I wasn't form with a talking I'm wearing

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Speaker 1: black sweat. You know, the Great Show was a bear

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Speaker 1: on it good. So often I would introduce nine one

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Speaker 1: one calls in front of a jury. Why because suddenly

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Speaker 1: it's not just a case or testimony anymore. It's real.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing a frantic nine one one call as

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Speaker 1: this little boy, Lucas, just five years old, is reported missing.

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Speaker 1: You can hardly make out what's being said with me

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Speaker 1: and all Star panel to make sense of Lucas's disappearance. TROYE. Layton,

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Speaker 1: renowned defens attorney, joining me out of LA. You can

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Speaker 1: find him at Slayton Lawyer's APC on Twitter at Troy Slayton.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensic psychologists specializing in forensic or criminal

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Speaker 1: pathology at Panthermitigation dot com. One of her most recent books,

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Speaker 1: one of many, Psychology of criminal Behavior. David Marshburn and

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Speaker 1: joining US private investigator, director of investigations for Search for

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Speaker 1: Me Foundation dot org, and former bounty hunter doctor Kendall Crowns,

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Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Medical Examiner of Travis County, Texas. That's Austin

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Speaker 1: and just to note, only about ten percent of all

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Speaker 1: medical examiners ever become a deputy chief and Christy, Missouri

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Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning Investigative reporter, president of Successful Strategies PR

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Speaker 1: and crisis communications firm. You can find her by going

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Speaker 1: to info at Christy Missouri dot com. By first, we're

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Speaker 1: not through with that. N I'm on one call. Listen,

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Speaker 1: not going going. I understand, I understand, Okay, I need

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Speaker 1: to get a little bit more information. Okay. When was

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Speaker 1: the last time you saw him? From around? Like? Who

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Speaker 1: turning your clog? Okay, and you're out? He was at home?

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Speaker 1: It's there, okay, all right? And what color is his hair?

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Speaker 1: And brown? Short? Or among and short? Okay? Was he

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Speaker 1: wearing anything else? A hat or anything? He had? Um?

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Speaker 1: He had white socks on and he had a pull

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Speaker 1: up on because we were we were taking a nappy.

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Speaker 1: So what do you mean a pull up? A pull

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Speaker 1: for um for a night time? You know? Okay? What

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Speaker 1: color was that? Um? White? Blue? White? And blue? Is nine? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Really really long? Are you okay? And I want to

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Speaker 1: go first straight out to a very special guest joining us,

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Speaker 1: Christie Missouri Amy Award winning Investigative reporter Christie. Where did

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Speaker 1: this happen? Where did Lucas go missing. He went missing

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Speaker 1: out of the home. That's Emily Glass calling nine one one.

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Speaker 1: That's the Little Boys, So you know, I think it

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Speaker 1: was correct. That's right, So Wichita. And as a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, here's an idea about the neighborhood. Another clue

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Speaker 1: we get from the nine one one call. Listen, is

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Speaker 1: he the only one missing? Okay? Do you see any

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Speaker 1: suspicious people in the area? Un? I mean, I mean

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Speaker 1: don't even know. There was some thing peop going on

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Speaker 1: the cornerway. I was baking other work, and suspicious people

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Speaker 1: in the corner. I don't know. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: was to do anything with it, but you're never knowing

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood stains. Okay, larn me. Suspicious people in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: But I thought he was taking a nap. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this. Was he taking a nap with you?

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Speaker 1: We room? Okay, m I put a movie on for

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Speaker 1: him and I didn't shower really quick to pick back

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Speaker 1: on him. So okay, I mean and close the citius

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Speaker 1: a nap and then my room. Okay, so you went

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Speaker 1: to check on him and then you went to go

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Speaker 1: take a nap, and he's out there anymore? Correct? No,

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Speaker 1: h okay, it's okay. Do you have do you know

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Speaker 1: if any line worth anything else? Was there any pets

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Speaker 1: missing or anything? He said, okay and co are in there, good,

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Speaker 1: m okay, So very quickly to you. David Marshburn, private investigator,

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Speaker 1: closely closely connected to this case. Just based on the

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Speaker 1: nine o one call alone, I've got two alternatives. I've

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Speaker 1: got the suspicious people standing on the corner, and I've

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Speaker 1: got the possibility of this five year old little boy

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Speaker 1: who was taking a nap, wondering out into the elements,

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Speaker 1: wearing no shoes and nothing but a pull up. That's

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Speaker 1: what I'm getting from the nine one one call. David

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Speaker 1: marshburne veteran private investigator, former bounty hunter. Because you tell

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Speaker 1: me about the neighborhood, the suspicious people she's referring to

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Speaker 1: on the corner. What is she talking about. Well, the

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Speaker 1: way the way I see it is most of the

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Speaker 1: time when kids are abducted from a home, usually has

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Speaker 1: involved a parent or someone close to the home. And

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, she didn't stress the point of

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Speaker 1: the strangers or the people that were suspicious. She just

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Speaker 1: kept going back to he's missing, he's missing. And it

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Speaker 1: was like the nine one one dispatcher was the one

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Speaker 1: that put that in her mind. To just come up

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Speaker 1: with it seemed to me, you know what, you're right,

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Speaker 1: You're right. She did not volunteerily come up with that.

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Speaker 1: She came up with that when she was questioned Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Guys. A little boy, five year

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Speaker 1: old Lucas seemingly goes missing, jeer and at wearing nothing

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Speaker 1: but a pull up. Take a listen to Kansas Police

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Speaker 1: officer Charlie Davidson. Still missing. It's five year old Lucas Fernandez.

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Speaker 1: Lucas was last seen wearing black sweats, white socks, and

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Speaker 1: a gray shirt with a bear on it. Our thoughts

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Speaker 1: and prayers remain with Lucas and Lucas's family as we

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Speaker 1: are diligently investigating the situation. On Friday, February seventeenth, that

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Speaker 1: approximately six to fifteen officers were dispatched to a lost

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Speaker 1: juvenile call at a residence and a six hundred block

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Speaker 1: of South Edgemore. When they arrived, they made contact with

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Speaker 1: a twenty six year old female who was the stepmother

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Speaker 1: of Lucas. She reported to officers that she last saw

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Speaker 1: Lucas in his bedroom at approximately three pm. Prior to

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Speaker 1: her showering and falling asleep. Officers and K nine units

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Speaker 1: have deology lately checked the home and the neighborhood with

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Speaker 1: no luck of locating Lucas at this time. Guys, you

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Speaker 1: were hearing them, Police Officer Charlie Davidson speaking. Do I

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Speaker 1: have this wrong, David Marshburn, because I thought she said

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Speaker 1: in the beginning he was wearing a pull up, But

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Speaker 1: now I'm hearing black sweats, white socks, a great shirt

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Speaker 1: with a bear on it. That that's correct. And if

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Speaker 1: you also catch that, you know she first stated that

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Speaker 1: she woke up from a long nap and then it

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Speaker 1: changed to she took a really quick shower. You know,

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Speaker 1: m roy Layton, you have children, right I do. I

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Speaker 1: know what my children have on right now. I even

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Speaker 1: know what color their underwear is because I took it

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Speaker 1: out for them the night before. I know what color

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Speaker 1: their socks are. Everything. I know. It sounds like a

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Speaker 1: small thing, but to have the outfit's so drastically different,

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Speaker 1: and my mind is a big thing. From a pull

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Speaker 1: up to black sweats with a gray sweatshirt, a gray

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Speaker 1: shirt with a bear on in white socks. That's a

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Speaker 1: big difference choice. Lighten. Imagine the chemical reaction going on

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Speaker 1: in somebody's brain when they realize that their child is

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Speaker 1: missing and they are making that call to nine one one,

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Speaker 1: and they are being asked all sorts of questions when

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Speaker 1: all they can think about is, oh, my God, where

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Speaker 1: is my child? I want my child back? And the

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Speaker 1: nine one one operator doing a diligent job, trying to

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Speaker 1: do their job and gather as many facts as they

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Speaker 1: can and get as much information as they can. Initially,

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Speaker 1: there's no textbook for the way that a person is

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Speaker 1: supposed to react. I wasn't waiting for that, Troy. You

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Speaker 1: remind me so much of Defense Attorney Mark Garaghos, because

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Speaker 1: when he was defending Scott Peterson and I was talking

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Speaker 1: about Peterson's affair with his mistress Amber Fry, he said,

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Speaker 1: there's no textbook for grief, you know. I know he

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Speaker 1: made all those zone calls to Amber, there were all lies,

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Speaker 1: but there's no textbook for grief. Now you're saying there's

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Speaker 1: no playbook. You know, Well, my son John David went

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Speaker 1: missing for about five minutes, and I chys r us.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I yelled out it's missing. I immediately said,

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Speaker 1: he's wearing flaid shorts and blue crocs. I didn't forget

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Speaker 1: what he was wearing. So I hear what you're saying, Troy,

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Speaker 1: and I respect you and what you do for a living,

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Speaker 1: trying to make the best out of a really bad situation.

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Speaker 1: But in this case, I want you to hear now

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Speaker 1: what the father of Lucas tells me. Listen. I thought

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Speaker 1: that maybe he had wandered off. You know. I got

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Speaker 1: the phone call when I was working in New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and I immediately went into shock, especially when I spoke

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Speaker 1: with police officers and they said that they were at

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Speaker 1: my residence and performing at least a neighborhood search in

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Speaker 1: the immediate times after, and that they still hadn't found him.

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Speaker 1: I was really, really, really concerned, because he doesn't you know,

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Speaker 1: he's not the type of boy that wanders off or

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Speaker 1: does anything without asking permission. So I knew something really

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Speaker 1: was wrong, you know, Doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist and

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Speaker 1: author of Psychology of Criminal Behavior. Doctor Schwartz, what the

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Speaker 1: father is telling me. He's very significant because if someone

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Speaker 1: told me that John, David or Lucy just left the

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Speaker 1: house I wouldn't believe that, because they've never in thirteen years,

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Speaker 1: even as little children, done that. So it's contrary to

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Speaker 1: everything I know about them. I would not believe that.

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Speaker 1: So when you hear the fathers say in five years,

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Speaker 1: he's never been the type to just leave the house,

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Speaker 1: that means a lot to me. That's a very significant

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Speaker 1: evidence evidence of behavior. I agree with you, Nancy. This

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Speaker 1: is a father who knows his son and this is

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Speaker 1: his instinct reaction rights his intuition is telling him something

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Speaker 1: bad happened here, because my son doesn't just wander off.

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Speaker 1: And these are the cues that we need to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to. To Chrissy MISSOURIK joining me Emmy Award winning

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, where is Lucas extensive searches involving over one

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Speaker 1: hundred officers, dogs, helicopters, searches conducted in parks, streams, and

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Speaker 1: just search for this five year old little boy, Christy MISSOURIK.

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Speaker 1: Both cops in the community scoured everything when door to

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Speaker 1: door got surveillance video, started tracking cell phones of both

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Speaker 1: Emily Glass, the boy's father, and family members. Not a

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Speaker 1: site nothing. Never saw the boy leave the house. They

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Speaker 1: never saw someone take the boy from the house. It

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Speaker 1: as if he has vanished into thin air. We are

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Speaker 1: talking about the disappearance of a little five year old boy.

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Speaker 1: Where is Luke? Because enterer veteran private investigator David marsh

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Speaker 1: Byrne and you can find him at Search for Me

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Speaker 1: foundation dot org. He's a former bounty hunter. David. How

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Speaker 1: did you get involved in the search for little lucas well?

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Speaker 1: The grandmother called me and she asked me what I

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Speaker 1: what I get involved? And I told her that the

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Speaker 1: only way I could is if you know, the dad

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Speaker 1: will call me. And sure enough he called me right

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Speaker 1: away and asked me what I come up there and help,

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Speaker 1: and I told him I would. And I told him

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Speaker 1: right out in front that there's two people I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at him and Emily and based off of what I

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Speaker 1: know from the beginning of what news Mea was saying.

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Speaker 1: And he said, that's okay, and he agreed to meet

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Speaker 1: with me. You know, that's really interesting that you say that,

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Speaker 1: David marsh Fern. I will never forget being struck the

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Speaker 1: first time I learned that Mark Class, whose daughter Polly

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Speaker 1: was stolen out of her mom's home while she was

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Speaker 1: having a sleepover, He immediately said to cops when they

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Speaker 1: knocked on his door, take my blood, take my fingerprint,

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Speaker 1: take my DNA, search my place, search my car, do

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to so you can start looking for

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Speaker 1: the person that took my daughter, no hesitation whatsoever. And

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Speaker 1: that is exactly what Lucas's dad said. He says, sure,

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Speaker 1: do whatever you need. Clime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about the disappearance of a little five

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Speaker 1: year old boy. And joining me right now is doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, a Deputy Chief Medical exam R Travis County, Texas.

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Speaker 1: That's Austin. And although we typically think the deputy chief

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Speaker 1: Medical examiners dealing with just dead bodies, he's been exposed

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Speaker 1: to a lot of nine one one calls. Jump in,

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Speaker 1: doctor Crowns. So yeah, over the years, I've had to

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Speaker 1: listen to nine one one calls, particularly at court when

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Speaker 1: they play the tapes back of the individuals who may

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Speaker 1: have killed their own child. And you know, you pick

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Speaker 1: up on a couple of things when you listen to them.

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Speaker 1: So listening to this one, it was fascinating their story.

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Speaker 1: Change number one, that's always a red flag. And then

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Speaker 1: the fact that she's the stepmother. Is another red flag too,

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Speaker 1: is I've noticed that, you know, individuals that don't have

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Speaker 1: a vested interest in the child that isn't their blood,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they are often responsible for their disappearance or demise.

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Speaker 1: So when I heard that in the nine one one call,

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Speaker 1: it's yes, she does sound upset, she does sound like

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Speaker 1: she's grieving. But to me, it was a very suspicious,

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Speaker 1: so to say. Also, I grew up in the Witchita area.

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Speaker 1: I know the area where the child disappeared from, and

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Speaker 1: it's you know, a lot of people think Kansas is

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Speaker 1: just some rural farmland with wheat fields, but actually in

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Speaker 1: that area it's quite a bit of houses and for

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Speaker 1: a kid to just wander off and not be seen

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Speaker 1: by other members of the community is extremely interesting. It

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Speaker 1: was very suspicious. You were hearing doctor Kendall Crowns joining

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Speaker 1: so out of Travis County, Texas. David Marshburne called in

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Speaker 1: by the paternal grandmother in this case to help find

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Speaker 1: little Lucas, and somehow he fin angles the step mom,

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Speaker 1: Emily Glass. You just heard on the nine one call

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Speaker 1: into his car, David, I want to play something for

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Speaker 1: you and I want to see if you recall it's

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Speaker 1: our cut twenty five asad as much you think, diner,

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Speaker 1: Why do you say that you ain't no dead on pizza? Hey?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no no, Look we were right here, girl,

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Speaker 1: We ain't going nowhere. Everything is okay, and what ain't okay? We'

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Speaker 1: I it's gonna make okay. We load that it won't

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Speaker 1: be so hard on yourself. You can't do jolly care.

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Speaker 1: I can't do Jael okay to you, David marsh Burn,

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Speaker 1: private investigator number one. Who is the step mother speaking

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Speaker 1: to and how in the world did you get her

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Speaker 1: into the car? Emily's talking to Marsha Ward. That's the

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Speaker 1: girl that works for me, that does um. She's an

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Speaker 1: associate PI. And I'm out of the car and this

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Speaker 1: is when I'm I'm looking under the bridge to find Lucas,

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Speaker 1: and I wound up talking to David. David, let me

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Speaker 1: just take that in for a moment. You're looking for

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Speaker 1: a five year old little boy under a bridge. It's

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Speaker 1: hard for a mother to take in what you just said,

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Speaker 1: looking for your child up under a bridge. How did

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Speaker 1: you get her, Emily Glass into the car to go

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Speaker 1: look for Lucas? I mean, did you know he was

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Speaker 1: dead at that point. I did the day before. After

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Speaker 1: I got done talking to the father for ten minutes,

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Speaker 1: I said, I don't need to talk to you anymore.

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Speaker 1: I need to talk to Emily. So he takes me

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Speaker 1: to Emily and asked her to talk to me for

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes. I'm sitting there talking to her and she's

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Speaker 1: to nine to nine to nine. So I moved forward

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Speaker 1: into saying, you know, basically giving her an out that

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Speaker 1: possibly there was something that happened prior to that caused

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Speaker 1: Luca systemise and maybe she just got scared. In other words,

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Speaker 1: you gave her the choice to say he died as

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Speaker 1: she did have anything to do with it, and then

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Speaker 1: she just hid his body. You gave her that window, yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: And did you believe that she did believe as a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, take a listen to David Marshburn speaking

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Speaker 1: to Emily Glass I cut twenty four. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what what lucas he when he passed away, was on

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Speaker 1: his back? Did he throw up? He choked on his

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Speaker 1: own vomit? Did? Um? Was he just did in his

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Speaker 1: bed the old couch. Uh, he was on the bed

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Speaker 1: there on the couch on his side or on his back,

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Speaker 1: on his back, So did he say he vomited and vomit?

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Speaker 1: He didn't, So he just died. That was a concussion

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Speaker 1: and it's okay, So okay, you freaked out, I'm telling you.

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Speaker 1: So is that how you lured her into showing you

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Speaker 1: where the body was? David, Yes, ma'am. It goes back

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Speaker 1: to the nun one one call, because the details are

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Speaker 1: you know, at first he just like to say he's

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Speaker 1: in his pool up. Well, then he's clothed, and it

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Speaker 1: could possibly been he threw up on himself or threw

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Speaker 1: up on her, and she washed him and then clothed

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Speaker 1: him and then got rid of him. Yeah, and little

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Speaker 1: green men from ours could have been down and taken

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Speaker 1: him up for a probe. But that's not what happened.

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Speaker 1: She murdered five year old Lucas. So as you are

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Speaker 1: cajoling her, did you know in your mind she murdered him, yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: So what's going through your mind as you're driving around

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Speaker 1: these back roads with Emily Glass truly the evil step mom,

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Speaker 1: trying to keep her playcated, and so she'll keep talking.

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Speaker 1: What is going through your mind? David? Justice for this

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Speaker 1: little boy because I lived that kind of lifestyle when

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Speaker 1: I was young. I was in a abused home and

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Speaker 1: had you know, our mother's boyfriends beat on us and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and all I can think about is every hit that

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Speaker 1: we were hit with that he did the same to him.

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Speaker 1: What was her demeanor in the car with you, pretty

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Speaker 1: much self absorbed. It's what's going to happen to me.

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Speaker 1: She's more upset about the outcome, not so much as him,

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Speaker 1: because in her mind where she placed him was beautiful

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Speaker 1: and a nice setting, sort of like a great burial. David,

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Speaker 1: you're the only one that has really spent time with

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Speaker 1: this murder mom. Why did she do it? Well? Another

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Speaker 1: thing is she had another child, and I believe her

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Speaker 1: jealousy of why she couldn't have her boys that he

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Speaker 1: could have his, and now I'm taking care of him. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't want that life anymore. I want it just

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Speaker 1: with me and my husband and our child together. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our cut twenty six. I'm just sorry.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I kill It's okay. I think you

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Speaker 1: didn't know her hair is? Where's the door? I did

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Speaker 1: a little. It's so wrong. I didn't wrong. You are

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Speaker 1: hearing the truly evil stepmother I murder mom stating I

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Speaker 1: did Lucas so wrong, I did him wrong. Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, What happened to Lucas Hernandez and the

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Speaker 1: hand ends of evil stepmother murder Mom Emily Glass to

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Speaker 1: David Marshburne, did she ever divulge how she really murdered

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Speaker 1: this five year old little boy? No, ma'am. I kept

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Speaker 1: with the same program of the pount that I gave

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Speaker 1: her through. I know it's just marsha and against her,

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Speaker 1: but you want to keep her on that same level

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Speaker 1: until law enforcement get there. And you know, as far

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Speaker 1: as her mentality at that time, you know, the the

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Speaker 1: forensic psychologist is going to be a better option on

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Speaker 1: what's going through her mind. And I can just see

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Speaker 1: what physically, but as far as readinger, that would be

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Speaker 1: more for the psychologist. You know, let's go to you,

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Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologists specializing in criminal pathology. Doctor Sherry.

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Speaker 1: A lot has made of the fact that the father

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Speaker 1: traveled a lot for work and she Emily Glass stayed

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Speaker 1: home and took care of his son from another woman.

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Speaker 1: Lucas Hernandez along with her own child, a little girl,

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Speaker 1: but her little girl was fed and taking care of

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Speaker 1: and petted and doted upon, but not Lucas. Why that's

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Speaker 1: actually more common than we care to discuss, Nancy that

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Speaker 1: step children. I'm not sure of the exact statistic, but

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Speaker 1: there are statistics out there that show that step children

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Speaker 1: are significantly more likely to come to some harm in

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Speaker 1: a home where their primary caretaker is a stepparent or

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Speaker 1: where there's a stepparent in the home. So that's not

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Speaker 1: entirely uncommon. It's incredibly horrible and unfortunate, but not at

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Speaker 1: all uncommon, sadly, And you know, to David's point about

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Speaker 1: what was going through her mind, the only thing that

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Speaker 1: was going through her mind from what I'm hearing, is

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Speaker 1: what about me herself. She's not saying we need to

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Speaker 1: find Lucas. She's not saying, poor Lucas. How you know

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Speaker 1: he's out here somewhere. I can't sleep at night because

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Speaker 1: I'm so worried about Lucas. What she's saying is I

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Speaker 1: can't do jail and I'm this horrible person, which she

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Speaker 1: that's not guilt. We shouldn't mistake that for gilt in

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Speaker 1: this context. What that is or guilty conscience. I should say,

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00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: what that is is that she's using self pity, this

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Speaker 1: feigned self pity to manipulate the emotions of David and

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Speaker 1: whoever else is listening. Pour me, poor me, poor me.

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Speaker 1: It's all about me, guys, What was going through her mind?

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Speaker 1: To take a listen to our cut thirty. This is

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Speaker 1: Lucas's father, Jonathan speaking to me. No, I did not.

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Speaker 1: In the three years that I've known her and seen

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Speaker 1: them interact, and you know she's she was always good

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Speaker 1: with him. Did you guys have a stormy relationship? Did

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00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: you argue about you being out of town? It would

388
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: come up? I mean it was it was hard. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard like that, especially you know, for the kids,

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Speaker 1: but also for her. And I mean it was hard

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Speaker 1: for me being gone. I didn't I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be away from my family for three weeks at a time.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if the name Julie Shinneker

394
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Speaker 1: rings a Belle Troy Layton defends attorney out of la

395
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Speaker 1: Julie Shinneker, or the highly educated military mom out of

396
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Speaker 1: Florida whose husband was high up in the military too,

397
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Speaker 1: who would be gone, Gone gone? While She raised two twins,

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Speaker 1: two children now teens at home, and she shot both

399
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Speaker 1: of them dead. One the son was coming back from

400
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: I think it was lacrosse. The daughter was at a

401
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: computer working our homework and shot in the mouth. This

402
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: is a common recurring thing, children being murdered by mom's

403
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: because dad's away from home. Well, of course that's no defense,

404
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Troye Layton. Certainly it is not a defense. And in

405
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: this case it is a stepmother and not a blood relationship.

406
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: Does that matter in your mind somehow? Absolutely not. But

407
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: you know, anyone that would take any kind of action

408
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: to harm any child, their own stepchild is clearly laboring

409
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Speaker 1: under psychological illness. Oh okay, let me understand something, Royce Layton.

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Speaker 1: Isn't show you have your JD, not your MD with

411
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Speaker 1: a specialty in psychiatry. Is that right now? I'm just

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Speaker 1: a doctor of lawn right as we all are. Once

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Speaker 1: you're going to call your doctor Slayton. But that one's

414
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: not insanity under the law against the five year old

415
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: child does not have all the people. Yeah, I agree

416
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: with that, but the reality is not having all your marbles.

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00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: It's not insanity under the law, which means you didn't

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00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: know right from wrong at the time of the incident,

419
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: and back to you, David Marshburne, who helped locate this

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00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: little child's body. She clearly knew right from wrong because

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Speaker 1: when you were talking to her, she can't be saying

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Speaker 1: I can't do jail, I can't do jail. She knew

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Speaker 1: what she did was wrong. David, tell me about the

424
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: discovery of this child's body. Well, when we were riding around,

425
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: I finally got it out of her that she put

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00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: him under a bridge, because we were riding around forever

427
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: and I would ask her about landmarks and you know

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00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: which bridge, And finally I got irritated and I said,

429
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: all right, we're just gonna stop at every bridge did

430
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: we come to, and we're gonna look under. And sure enough,

431
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: the very first bridge I come to, he's under there,

432
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: um and you know you could That's when she's having

433
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: a conversation with Marcia. She knew I found him, because

434
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know that conversation was going on. But while

435
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: I was looking under the bridge, she knew it. Because

436
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: then she's like, I can't do jail. Oh my god,

437
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: you know what have I done? And Marcia's just reassuring

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00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: her that everything's gonna be okay, or we're gonna make

439
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: it okay. Did you yourself find the body, Yes, ma'am,

440
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: I did well. At first, I couldn't make out what

441
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: it is, but when I got up to it, I

442
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: realized that there was a bunch of branches he was hidden.

443
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: So you know, that's to me, that's showing guilt already

444
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: because you're trying to hide it. You know, it's one

445
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: thing to go put it somewhere someone can find him

446
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: and then he can get a proper burial, but this

447
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: you actually went to the extent of gathering stuff to

448
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: put on top of him to make sure no one

449
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: Discoversy to doctor Kendall Crown's Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas,

450
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: no cause of death was ever determined. Why Well, so,

451
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: the issue is the child is decomposed, and to the

452
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: extent of decomposition, it's difficult to see if there's like

453
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: internal damage, like the organs have either decomposed to the

454
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: point you can't really evaluate them, or they've been scavenged

455
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: by maggots or other predators that might be in the area,

456
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: or other scavengers that might be in the area that

457
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 1: leaves you with the problem is you can't quite make

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00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: out what may or may not have happened. The other

459
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: thing is is often in these child abuse cases like this,

460
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: is they're smothered little pillow with hand or something along

461
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: those lines. And because of how the act of smothering

462
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: leaves very little findings on a child, you might, if

463
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: you're lucky, find a like breezing on the inner surface

464
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: of the lip because of the hard pressure against the teeth,

465
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: but you rarely find that. So what happens is in

466
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: the smothering cases is there's actually no findings. So because

467
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 1: of that, the decomposition, the fact that the kid could

468
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: have been smothered, it's hard to say what exactly happened.

469
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: So that leaves the medical examiner with the only option

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00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: of calling it undetermined, even though more than likely the

471
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: child was murdered in some way. Be of David Marshburne. David,

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00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: what went through your mind when you saw that child's

473
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: remains covered up under a bridge? Well, you know, I

474
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: trying to put my personal feelings into it anymore, because

475
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, the very first case of solid I really

476
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: wanted my emotions got to me and I could have

477
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: done something really bad. So I try to leave my

478
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: emotions out of it. But you know, it's horrid with

479
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: a child, especially when you're sitting there and you can

480
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: see his face. He matter of fact, going back to

481
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: that first question, you asked me, what did I saw?

482
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: What did I see? Well, he was mummified and he

483
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: still had his face, and there was live activity, you

484
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: know with maggots, and you know, just seeing him, that

485
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: little precious baby laying there just discarded like trash, was

486
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: just horrible, horrific. It still affected me, but this not

487
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: as as it did other cases when I know the

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00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: family more to murder a five year old child because

489
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: you're angry that daddy works away from home three weeks

490
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: at a time, throw his body under a bridge to

491
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: be eaten by bugs, she truly qualifies as a murder mom.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Gray's Crimes Story, signing off Goodbye friend,