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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law.

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Speaker 2: Employers frequently exploit the weaknesses.

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Speaker 3: In the law.

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Speaker 4: Of course, are going to be asking questions about separation

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Speaker 4: of powers.

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Speaker 5: One by one, Google settled with all of these other plaintiffs.

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Speaker 1: Interviews with prominent attorneys and Bloomberg legal experts Join.

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Speaker 6: Me is immigration law expertly on Fresco, First Amendment law

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Speaker 6: expert Caroline Malick.

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Speaker 1: Corbin, and analysis of important legal issues, cases and headlines that.

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Speaker 7: Trilie Judge may well want to hold a hearing. They

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Speaker 7: have never said this case.

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Speaker 4: Should never have been brought in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Show.

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Speaker 6: I'm June Grosso. Ahead in this hour, the redistricting wars

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Speaker 6: heat up following the Supreme Court's decision eviscerating the Voting

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Speaker 6: Rights Act. Elon Musk and Sam Altman face off in

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Speaker 6: a high stakes trial over open AI and Taylor Swift

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Speaker 6: makes a novel legal move to protect her voice and image.

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Speaker 6: The Supreme Court's conservative majority handed Republicans their biggest victory

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Speaker 6: yet in the battle to control the House by gutting

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Speaker 6: the Voting Rights Act. The consequences are already playing out

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Speaker 6: as Republican led states try to pass new maps to

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Speaker 6: eliminate democratic health seats for the midterms. The challenge is

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Speaker 6: the timing well after filing deadlines for this year's primary elections,

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Speaker 6: and in some cases, after those primary elections have been held.

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Speaker 6: In Louisiana, where the state's map was found unconstitutional by

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Speaker 6: the Supreme Court and the Calais decision, primary elections had

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Speaker 6: already started and the governor's suspended House races, so the

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Speaker 6: legislature could draw a new map. But voters, voting groups,

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Speaker 6: and candidates have filed multiple lawsuits in state and federal

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Speaker 6: courts to try to stop that process. Here's Democratic Louisiana

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Speaker 6: congres Rrisman Cleo Fields, but.

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Speaker 3: A governor and a Secretary of State to halt the

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Speaker 3: election in the middle of voting disenfranchised thousands of voters

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Speaker 3: in Louisiana, and to me is Unamerican and unconstitutional in

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Speaker 3: my view.

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Speaker 6: My guest is Jonathan Diaz, director of voting advocacy in

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Speaker 6: Partnerships at the Campaign Legal Center. Are we already seeing

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Speaker 6: the early results of that decision?

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Speaker 4: So the Supreme Court's decision in Calais versus Louisiana, has

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Speaker 4: really fundamentally altered the scope of federal legal protections for

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Speaker 4: voting rights. It is the latest in what has been

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Speaker 4: a long series of decisions by the Roberts Court over

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Speaker 4: the last fifteen years, slowly chipping away at the Voting

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Speaker 4: Rights Act, the crown jewel of the civil rights movement,

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Speaker 4: and with this sort of final blow, it has really

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Speaker 4: rendered the Voting Rights Act, as Justice Kagan said and

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Speaker 4: her dissent a dead letter in this decision in Bernovich,

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Speaker 4: another decision from twenty twenty one, even in Shelby County

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Speaker 4: back in twenty thirteen, the majority is very careful to

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Speaker 4: say that they are not overturning the Voting Rights Act,

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Speaker 4: They are not declaring the whole Voting Rights Act unconstitutional.

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Speaker 4: It's still there, but they have functionally made it unenforceable.

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Speaker 4: And what that has done, now in May of an

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Speaker 4: election year, is turbocharged the already aggressive redistricting battles that

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Speaker 4: we've been seeing play out over the last several months,

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Speaker 4: leading states across the country but primarily in the South,

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Speaker 4: to aggressively try to redraw their congressional maps before this

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Speaker 4: year's midterm elections to eliminate majority minority districts and functionally

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Speaker 4: erase meaningful representation for primarily black and Latino voters across

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Speaker 4: the American South, including in states that have already held

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Speaker 4: primary elections or that are in the middle of primary

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Speaker 4: elections right now. So it's really a sort of craven

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Speaker 4: and opportunistic attempt to redraw these maps for partisan gain

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Speaker 4: at the expense of minority voters.

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Speaker 6: So where does the map stand right now?

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Speaker 4: So the only state that has entirely enacted a new

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Speaker 4: maps since the Calae decision is Florida. They were ready,

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Speaker 4: They passed their map within hours of that decision coming down.

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Speaker 4: And since then, a number of other states either governors

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Speaker 4: have called special sessions of their legislatures to draw new maps,

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Speaker 4: or they've begun the process of redoing their maps. And

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Speaker 4: that is complicated in a place like Alabama that already

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Speaker 4: has had a primary, in a place like Louisiana, where

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Speaker 4: their primary is in just a little over a week

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Speaker 4: and voting has already begun, ballots have already been cast.

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Speaker 4: But it's you know, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina have

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Speaker 4: all you know, announced plans to target the majority minority

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Speaker 4: districts that were created as a result of successful litigation

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Speaker 4: under the Voting Rights Act in their states, and specifically

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Speaker 4: targeting primarily black lawmakers elected in majority black districts.

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Speaker 6: They eliminate these majority minority black districts. Is it a guarantee?

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Speaker 6: Is it a lock that a Democrat can't get elected there?

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Speaker 6: Are they able to gerrymander it in such a way?

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Speaker 4: Not necessarily. It does depend a little bit on the

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Speaker 4: state and on the state's particular geography. But the redistricting

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Speaker 4: process has become so technical and so driven by computer programs,

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Speaker 4: and map drawers have gotten increasingly sophisticated over recent years,

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Speaker 4: and so it is very plausible to be able to

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Speaker 4: draw a map where it would be nearly impossible for

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Speaker 4: a Democrat to get elected because of just the way

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Speaker 4: that the lines have been drawn, especially now that the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court has basically blessed this practice and has said

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Speaker 4: that you can target voters of color so long as

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Speaker 4: you claim that you're doing it for partisan reasons. So

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Speaker 4: as long as the state says, well, we're not discriminating

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Speaker 4: against them because they're black or Latino, We're discriminating against

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Speaker 4: them because they're Democrats. The Supreme Court majority has said that,

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Speaker 4: so okay.

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Speaker 6: Louisiana's Governor Jeff Landry, in delaying his states House primary

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Speaker 6: elections in order to redraw the state's map, quoted that

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Speaker 6: famous quote from the Chief Justice John Roberts. The best

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Speaker 6: way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is

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Speaker 6: to stop discriminating on the basis of race. And there

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Speaker 6: have been lawsuits filed to stop the redistricting, But what

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Speaker 6: are they based on now that they can no longer

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Speaker 6: base it on discrimination on the basis of race.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot to unpack there.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I apologize for the double question, or maybe the

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Speaker 6: triple question, but that vote.

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Speaker 4: From Chief Justice Roberts is pretty disingenuous because what the

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Speaker 4: Court has really functionally done is said that even if

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Speaker 4: you can prove that discrimination has happened, you cannot consider

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Speaker 4: race when remedying discrimination. And I'm not sure how you

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Speaker 4: can fashion a legal remedy to address race discrimination while

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Speaker 4: being blind to race. It just doesn't makes sense. So

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Speaker 4: setting that aside, you know, the governor of Louisiana, in

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Speaker 4: my view, does not have the authority to just unilaterally

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Speaker 4: postpone the primary because of a change in law, there

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Speaker 4: is an emergency statute that does give the governor and

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Speaker 4: the Secretary of State some limited ability to change election dates,

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Speaker 4: but that is reserved for actual unforeseen catastrophes, which in

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Speaker 4: Louisiana usually means a hurricane. And so, you know, when

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Speaker 4: it is functionally impossible to hold an election because you know,

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Speaker 4: a natural disaster has occurred. And what the governor is

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Speaker 4: doing here is I think, really cynically and opportunistically abusing

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Speaker 4: that authority to cancel an election already in progress because

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Speaker 4: he wants to redraw maps to get his party more

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Speaker 4: congressional seats. And so the claims that are being brought

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Speaker 4: by Litigans in Louisiana are not about the maps themselves,

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Speaker 4: are not about you know, discriminating against voters in this

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Speaker 4: particular instance. You know, these are due process claims. These

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Speaker 4: are all TRA's claims. They're arguing that the governor has

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Speaker 4: exceeded his legal authority by you know, calling it an

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Speaker 4: emergency and rescheduling the election when there is no actual emergency.

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Speaker 4: That's not what the statute and the emergency power were

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Speaker 4: designed for. And he's functionally canceling the votes that have

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Speaker 4: already been cast by you know Louisiana's who have voted

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Speaker 4: earlier voted by mail because this election period has been

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Speaker 4: ongoing now for a couple of weeks. So the legal

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Speaker 4: actions that have been brought are on behalf of individual

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Speaker 4: voters who already cast ballots, and they want those ballots

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Speaker 4: counted because you know, there there are changes in law,

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Speaker 4: there are changes in circumstances all the time. But what

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Speaker 4: we don't do in a democracy is cancel an election midstream.

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Speaker 4: Can't change the rules halfway through the election just because

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Speaker 4: you want a different outcome.

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Speaker 6: The Supreme Court has established the per sl principle, the

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Speaker 6: idea that courts shouldn't change voting or election rules too

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Speaker 6: close to an election in order to avoid confusion. At

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Speaker 6: this point, I'm not sure which principles or rules the

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Speaker 6: Court will still follow as precedent, but does that apply here.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting that Percell does not appear anywhere in the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court's decision in Calais. And the Court has been

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Speaker 4: very aggressive in citing Percell to prevent district courts from

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Speaker 4: issuing rulings about elections that might be disruptive to the

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Speaker 4: election administration process or cause voter confusion. And I can't

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Speaker 4: think of a more disruptive decision than you know, gutting

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Speaker 4: the Voting Rights Act in the middle of an interim

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Speaker 4: year while primaries are ongoing, and you know, the Court

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Speaker 4: could have done all sorts of things to delay, you know,

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Speaker 4: this decision taking effect, to make clear to the states

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Speaker 4: that you know, this election cycle shouldn't be affected by it.

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Speaker 7: They didn't do that.

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Speaker 4: And so, you know, the Court's use of purcell I

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Speaker 4: think has been quite cynical and pretty pretty opportunistic. They

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Speaker 4: use it when they want to block a lower court ruling,

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Speaker 4: but they don't themselves seem very bound by it. And

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Speaker 4: so the guidance that they've given to the district courts

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Speaker 4: about you know, being careful about not to disrupt elections

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Speaker 4: with judicial decisions, about how courts shouldn't change things midstream,

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Speaker 4: it does not seem to be guidance that they themselves

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Speaker 4: have followed.

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Speaker 6: Here, let's talk about twenty twenty eight, because some of

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Speaker 6: the states that are saying no, we can't do it now,

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Speaker 6: like Georgia. The Georgia Governor Brian Kempson. It's clear that

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Speaker 6: KELA requires Georgia to adopt new electoral maps before the

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty eight election cycle. Let's talk about Republican states first.

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Speaker 6: Which Republican states do you think still have maps they're

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Speaker 6: able to gerrymander to get rid of Democrats.

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Speaker 4: There are plenty. I think it's states all across the South.

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Speaker 4: But looking ahead to twenty twenty eight, I don't think

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Speaker 4: it's just Republican states that we have to think about.

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Speaker 4: I think the same way that we saw Texas and

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Speaker 4: California and Virginia and Ohio all going kind of tit

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Speaker 4: for tat in the last year, the race to the

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Speaker 4: bottom is only going to accelerate because if all of

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Speaker 4: these states in the Deep South are successful in redrawing

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Speaker 4: their maps to eliminate Democrats, I expect places like Maryland

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Speaker 4: and Illinois and Colorado to retaliate, and nobody wins. When

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Speaker 4: the parties are engaged in this race to the bottom

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Speaker 4: of just trying to manipulate the electorate for their own

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Speaker 4: PARTI is in gain. The loser here is not going

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Speaker 4: to be the Republicans or the Democrats. It's going to

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Speaker 4: be the American people who are going to be denied

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Speaker 4: a meaningful opportunity to select representatives who actually represent them.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's a kind of common saying that we

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Speaker 4: use a lot. Voters should choose their politicians, not the

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Speaker 4: other way around. And what this decision from the Supreme

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Speaker 4: Court has done is functionally given state legislatures the ability

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Speaker 4: to decide for themselves what party is going to represent

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Speaker 4: fair states in Congress, and taking the power to make

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Speaker 4: that choice away from the voters.

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Speaker 6: Thanks so much, Jonathan. That's Jonathan Diaz of the Campaign

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Speaker 6: Legal Center. Democrats were del to blow to their efforts

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Speaker 6: to minimize Republicans redistricting gains when the Virginia Supreme Court

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Speaker 6: blocked a voter approved map that would have flipped as

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Speaker 6: many as four Republican held House seats in the midterms

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Speaker 6: in a four to three decision. The state's highest court

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Speaker 6: ruled on Friday that the legislature's process for pursuing the

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Speaker 6: new map violated Virginia's constitution and ordered that an earlier

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Speaker 6: version be used in the upcoming midterms. Coming up next

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Speaker 6: on the Bloomberg Law Show, Elon Musk and Sam Altman

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Speaker 6: based off in a California courtroom with the future of

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Speaker 6: Open AI at stake. I'm June Grosso and you're listening

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Speaker 6: to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You were listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from

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Speaker 1: Blouelomberg Radio.

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Speaker 6: Elon Musk is facing off against Sam Altman at a

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Speaker 6: high stakes trial that could determine the future of open Ai.

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Speaker 6: The California trial is the culmination of years of animosity

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Speaker 6: in public feuding over the startup. They found it together

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Speaker 6: more than a decade ago, before their relationships soured. Musk

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Speaker 6: claims that Altman and other leaders at OpenAI enriched themselves

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Speaker 6: by abandoning its altruistic principles and converting it from a

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Speaker 6: full nonprofit research organization to a for profit company. While

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Speaker 6: Altman and open ai are accusing Musk of harassment and

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Speaker 6: say the real goal of his lawsuit is to undercut

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Speaker 6: competition with his own startup, XAI. The first witness was

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Speaker 6: Musk himself. He tried to portray the stakes in the

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Speaker 6: case as existential, saying he wanted to prevent a terminator

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Speaker 6: like situation and basically repeating a warning he gave years ago.

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Speaker 5: There's some chance that above zero that AI will kill us.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's low, but at some chance.

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Speaker 6: The stakes in the trial are incredibly high and maybe

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Speaker 6: even existential. For open Ai because Musk is asking the

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Speaker 6: court to unwind its for profit conversion that was just

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Speaker 6: completed in October. Joining me is Bloomberg legal reporter Madlin Meckelberg,

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Speaker 6: who's covering the trial.

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Speaker 5: So Madlin.

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Speaker 6: Even before the opening statements in the trial, the judge

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Speaker 6: took Musk and Altman to task for some social media posts.

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Speaker 7: So just ahead of trial, if you were online on

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Speaker 7: x you saw a lot of posts coming from Musk

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Speaker 7: in his account talking about quote scam Altman his nickname

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Speaker 7: that he has for Sam Altman, and seemingly promoting social

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Speaker 7: media posts that included a New Yorker article about Sam

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Speaker 7: Altman and his conduct on the board of open Ai.

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Speaker 7: And open Ai also was posting things on social media.

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Speaker 7: They have a running blog post where they kind of

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Speaker 7: provide updates on the status of the Elon Musk situation

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Speaker 7: I think is what they call it. And when they

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Speaker 7: got to court first thing on Monday, before they talked

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Speaker 7: about anything else with the trial, the judge basically reprimanded

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Speaker 7: both sides and said you need to I think she

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Speaker 7: said the words control your propensity to use social media,

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Speaker 7: and she warned them that it may be making things

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Speaker 7: worse outside the court room, and she had Elon Musk

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Speaker 7: come up and stand in front of her as she

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Speaker 7: gave this warning, and he agreed that he would not

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Speaker 7: post anything or at least limit his posting about the case.

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Speaker 6: The opening statements are the first chance for the parties

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Speaker 6: to tell their story to the jury give us the

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Speaker 6: high points of the openings.

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Speaker 7: So we heard opening statements from the three main parties

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Speaker 7: in this case, being Elon Musk, Open Ai, and then Microsoft.

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Speaker 7: Elon Musk, I think we've heard his argument by now,

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Speaker 7: but theyasically he's alleging that Sam Maltman and Greg Brockman. Essentially,

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Speaker 7: he keeps saying the words stole a charity. He says

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Speaker 7: that they enriched themselves by converting this nonprofit entity into

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Speaker 7: a for profit company, and in doing so abandoned the

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Speaker 7: mission that they had at the beginning, which was creating

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Speaker 7: AI for good. And during opening statements we heard a

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Speaker 7: lot from them about Sam Altman and Greg Brockman's removal

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Speaker 7: from open AI's board and kind of the twenty twenty

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Speaker 7: two to twenty three era, and about how there was

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Speaker 7: a lack of trust from them from people at open Ai.

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Speaker 7: We saw some email exchanges talking about how much money

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Speaker 7: Elon Musk contributed to the foundation, kind of showing that

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Speaker 7: he was a major party in starting this from the beginning.

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Speaker 7: And then open AI's attorneys got up and they tried

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Speaker 7: to paint a different picture, of course, of the situation.

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Speaker 7: They showed emails where Elon Musk was trying to get

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Speaker 7: control of open ai when they were discussing forming a

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Speaker 7: for profit entity back in the day when he was

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Speaker 7: still affiliated with the organization, and their attorney basically was

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Speaker 7: trying to paint this case as a really simple one

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Speaker 7: where Musk was a disgruntled former employee of open ai

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Speaker 7: who was upset that they didn't want to go with

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Speaker 7: his vision of the company. He left formed a competitor,

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Speaker 7: and now he's turning around trying to undercut open ai

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Speaker 7: and harm one of his competitors in the AI space

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Speaker 7: and his former company that he helped found. And then

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Speaker 7: of course there's also the Microsoft element of this. They

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Speaker 7: tend to come in after the fact that they are

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Speaker 7: a key player in the lawsuit, and that's because Musk

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Speaker 7: has accused them of essentially aiding and abedding this theft

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Speaker 7: that he describes of a charity and so we heard

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Speaker 7: from Microsoft talking about their investments that they made in

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Speaker 7: open Ai, why they decided to make those investments, and

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Speaker 7: everything we're hearing from them over and over is pretty consistent,

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Speaker 7: so that their actions were above board. They had no

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Speaker 7: part in anything that they say may or may not

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Speaker 7: have been happening.

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Speaker 5: And Musk was the first witness.

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Speaker 7: Yes, Musk was the first witness called to the stand,

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Speaker 7: and he spent about three days testifying, answering questions from

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Speaker 7: his own attorneys and then a little more heated questions

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Speaker 7: from open AI's attorneys.

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Speaker 6: So let's talk about the direct testimony first. The easy

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Speaker 6: testimony when you're a lawyer quests you what was the

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Speaker 6: main point he was trying to get across on direct.

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Speaker 7: So I think the main point that Elon Musk was

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Speaker 7: trying to make is, and I keep saying this because

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Speaker 7: he kept saying it on the stand, is it's not

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Speaker 7: okay to steal a charity. We heard him say that

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Speaker 7: over and over again in response to many questions. And

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Speaker 7: it's really interesting across all of the testimony that we've

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Speaker 7: heard so far, everyone kind of describes these early days

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Speaker 7: when Musk was still at open ai really similarly and

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Speaker 7: they all kind of agree that there was discussion about

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Speaker 7: the need for more funding to support their research and

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Speaker 7: the need to maybe pursue some kind of for profit component.

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Speaker 7: And Musk said during his testimony that he had no

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Speaker 7: problem with creating a for profit company to support a nonprofit,

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Speaker 7: but he felt things crossed the line when they decided

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Speaker 7: to convert the nonprofit to a for profit. And he

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Speaker 7: described this situation as three phases of disillusionment with open AI,

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Speaker 7: and it kind of started with him being happy, pleased

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Speaker 7: with the mission. Then he started to get concerned that

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Speaker 7: they were moving in the direction that he didn't agree with.

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Speaker 7: This was around twenty seventeen twenty eighteen when he did

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Speaker 7: ultimately leave the board. And then he said phase three

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Speaker 7: kind of started in around twenty two when he was

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Speaker 7: convinced that they did in fact steal a charity. And

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Speaker 7: so we heard from him a lot about that About

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Speaker 7: his support of open AI. He says it wouldn't have

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Speaker 7: existed without him in the beginning. He came up with

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Speaker 7: the name. He brought his guidance, his leadership, his vision,

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Speaker 7: and most importantly, his money.

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Speaker 6: He was trying to portray the stakes of the case

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Speaker 6: as existential, saying several times that AI could quote kill

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Speaker 6: us all if it's not developed safely, and the judge

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Speaker 6: eventually told him to stop repeating that phrase.

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Speaker 7: That's right. So this idea of AI safety is a

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Speaker 7: big one. That's another part of Musk's case and his

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Speaker 7: argument for why he's so concerned about this decision to

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Speaker 7: turn open Ai into a for profit company. And he

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Speaker 7: said that we need somebody responsible leading AI. There's all

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Speaker 7: these private companies whose interests are motivated by profit and investors,

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Speaker 7: and that's why he wanted a nonprofit in this space.

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Speaker 7: And they had an expert that they called to testify

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Speaker 7: for Musk's case who was going to talk about the

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Speaker 7: threats of AI, and that includes this existential threat that

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Speaker 7: Musks describes of AI someday being smarter than humans and

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Speaker 7: leading to our demise essentially. And the judge did reprimand

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Speaker 7: them and say, you know, this case is not about

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Speaker 7: AI safety. I don't want to hear about this anymore.

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Speaker 7: Because Musk kept saying he was trying to prevent a

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Speaker 7: terminator situation talking about the movie franchise. She said, that's

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Speaker 7: not what this case is. It's not about AI safety,

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Speaker 7: and so that expert's testimony was cut quite short, I

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Speaker 7: think as a result of that, and we have not

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Speaker 7: heard that line from Musk since then.

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Speaker 6: Musk has testified many times, but on cross it seems

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Speaker 6: like he's not following the basic rules of being cross examined,

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Speaker 6: that he's always trying to take over and one up

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Speaker 6: the lawyer who's questioning him. For example, here, so he's

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Speaker 6: on the stand and he accused open AI's attorney of

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Speaker 6: asking a leading question, and the judge asked Musk to

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Speaker 6: repeat four words after her, I'm not a lawyer.

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Speaker 7: That's right, and that exchange actually went on. She said

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Speaker 7: you're not a lawyer, are you? And he says, no,

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Speaker 7: I'm not a lawyer. And she says, you didn't take

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Speaker 7: any classes on evidence Harry law, did you? And he said, well,

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Speaker 7: actually I took law one oh one and she said, okay,

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Speaker 7: Well still, okay, you're not a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Stop.

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Speaker 7: Definitely fair to characterize him that way, I think. Obviously,

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Speaker 7: on direct exam he has a lot more freedom to

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Speaker 7: tell his side of the story, but on cross he

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Speaker 7: became visibly irritated with the attorney for open AI. He

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Speaker 7: kept telling him his questions weren't fair, and you know,

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Speaker 7: lawyers love to say answer the question that I'm asking you.

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Speaker 7: You're not answering my question. It's a yes or no.

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Speaker 7: It's a simple question. And Musk replied often that you know,

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Speaker 7: your questions aren't simple. They need context, they need explanation.

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Speaker 7: And so it was a pretty interesting cross exam where

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Speaker 7: you know, you have this lawyer trying to get something

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Speaker 7: out of him, and Musk is resisting kind of at

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Speaker 7: every turn.

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Speaker 6: So as we discussed on cross examination, Musk had several

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Speaker 6: heated exchanges with William Savat, the attorney who represents open AI,

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Speaker 6: and at one point, Sabath questioned him, quote, at the

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Speaker 6: end of it, you didn't contribute a billion dollars to

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Speaker 6: open AI, did you. Savath wanted a yes or no answer,

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Speaker 6: which Musk would not give until the judge intervened and

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Speaker 6: told Musk to answer the question, which he still didn't

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Speaker 6: give a yes or no answer to. Explained the importance

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Speaker 6: of this point, right.

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Speaker 7: So, his financial commitments to open AI are a big

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Speaker 7: part of this case because obviously he's trying to say

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Speaker 7: that he donated this money under certain circumstances and they've

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Speaker 7: now violated that mission that he thought this money was

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Speaker 7: going to fund But yes, we saw during the course

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Speaker 7: of trial a few different statements that Musk has made

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Speaker 7: publicly about how much money he's given to open Ai.

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Speaker 7: When they first launched in twenty fifteen, they did so

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Speaker 7: with a commitment from him that he would eventually donate

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Speaker 7: as much as a billion dollars, and then he left

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Speaker 7: the board in twenty eighteen, and then later we saw

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Speaker 7: a post from him on x in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 7: where he said that he donated one hundred million dollars

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Speaker 7: to open Ai, which is obviously a big drop down

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Speaker 7: from one billion, but through questioning from the attorney, he

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Speaker 7: revealed that he had given thirty eight million dollars in

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Speaker 7: total to open ai before he departed, and so and

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Speaker 7: even bigger dropped down from the one billion dollars that

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Speaker 7: he had pledged to commit in the early days, and

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Speaker 7: that money was through quarterly donations that he was making,

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Speaker 7: but also rent that he was paying on an office

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Speaker 7: building for open Ai. And this is, you know, this

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Speaker 7: is an important issue because it gets at this question

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Speaker 7: of how much Musk was really involved in open Ai,

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Speaker 7: how much stake he had in this. And then of

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Speaker 7: course there's this attempt to impeach a witness and show

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Speaker 7: that you know, he's sometimes says things that don't turn

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Speaker 7: out to be true.

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Speaker 6: On the whole, how do you think his testimony went?

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Speaker 6: How do you come across.

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Speaker 7: He's an interesting character, and you know, there were a

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Speaker 7: lot of fireworks, like we're saying, But at the end

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Speaker 7: of the day, I think the person we saw in

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Speaker 7: the stand was Elon Musk, Like there weren't necessarily any

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Speaker 7: surprises in how he was presenting himself. As you say,

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Speaker 7: he's testified before. He speaks publicly a lot. We kind

439
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 7: of get a stream of consciousness from him on his

440
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 7: social media, so I don't think there's anything. You know,

441
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 7: it wasn't like, oh my gosh, I can't believe he

442
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 7: said that, But I will say they definitely really were

443
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 7: grilling him on cross exam. I don't know that he

444
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 7: totally helped his case. I think it's really early to tell,

445
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 7: but I think he made a few key concessions, including

446
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 7: talking about the difference in financial commitments that he made.

447
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 7: He said at one point that there was no paperwork

448
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 7: that he signed outlining the terms and conditions of his

449
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 7: donation to open AI. I think that was an important point,

450
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 7: and so I think it maybe didn't go as smoothly

451
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 7: as he would have wanted it to go. But that

452
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 7: being said, at the same time, he also had plenty

453
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 7: of time to make his own case, and I think

454
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 7: jurors definitely understood of where he was coming from this too.

455
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 6: Thanks. Madlin, will check back with you to see how

456
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 6: the trial's progressing. That's Bloomberg Legal reporter Madlin Mecklberg. Coming

457
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 6: up next on the Bloomberg Law Show. Jaylor Swift makes

458
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 6: a rather novel legal move to protect her voice and image.

459
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 6: I'm June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg.

460
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: You were listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from

461
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: Bloomberg RADIOA.

462
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 7: Hey, shchuche.

463
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 6: Popstar Taylor Swift's image and voice have been used in

464
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 6: many AI generated images and deep fakes, including a twenty

465
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 6: twenty four post by then candidate Donald Trump that falsely

466
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 6: showed Swift endorsing him for the presidency. In a new

467
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 6: legal move, Swift seems to be stepping up her fight

468
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 6: against AI copycats and deep fakes. She's filed trademark applications

469
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 6: for these two audio clips.

470
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 5: Hey it's Taylor.

471
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 4: My brand new album, The Life of a Showgirl is

472
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 4: out on October third, and you can click to pre

473
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 4: save it so you can listen to it on Spotify.

474
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 5: Hey, it's Taylor Swift, and you can listen to my

475
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 5: new album The Life.

476
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: Of a Showgirl on demand on Amazon Music unlimited.

477
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 6: Swift has also filed an application to trademark and image

478
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 6: of her on stage in a sequent outfit pink guitar

479
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 6: in hand. Historically, trademarks aren't designed to protect a person's

480
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 6: general likeness, voice or persona, but at least one Hollywood star,

481
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 6: Matthew McConaughey, has successfully trademarked his iconic line from the

482
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety three film Dazed and Confused. All Right, all right,

483
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 6: all right. These kinds of voice trademarks have never been

484
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 6: tested in court. My guest is Cynthia Katz, a music

485
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 6: partner at Fox Rothschild. Trademarks aren't usually used for this purpose,

486
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 6: are they?

487
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 8: Sound as a potential source indicator can be used as

488
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 8: a trademark, and has been done in the past in

489
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 8: some celebrity situations, but it is not the primary form

490
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 8: of protection for voice that is typically used.

491
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 2: You know, in the music business and.

492
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 8: Trademark really it's at its core is not to protect

493
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 8: the owner of the market rather than to look at

494
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 8: preventing consumer confusion in the marketplace and looking to preserve

495
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 8: the consumer so that you know, the consumer has a

496
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 8: good source indicator, you know. So mostly that turns into

497
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 8: you know, I'm going to the grocery store and I

498
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 8: would see a logo. I want to know that I

499
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 8: can count on the quality behind that product because that

500
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 8: logo tells me something and it's based on actual use,

501
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 8: so that you know, people really know that this means

502
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 8: that I know who's making this product. There have been

503
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 8: some sort of iconic sounds, you know, over the years

504
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 8: that have served as source indicators that have been trademarked,

505
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 8: and then celebrities in.

506
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: Particular where they have a very.

507
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 8: Unique catchphrase for example, which obviously ties to the Matthew McConaughey,

508
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 8: all right, all right, you know that's so iconic, and

509
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 8: there are so many brands that you know, would like

510
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 8: to have that exact sound, you know, maybe indicating an endorsement.

511
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 8: So you know, in those sort of limited situations, it

512
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 8: has been done before, but it's certainly not the standard

513
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 8: bearer for you know musicians in terms of protecting their voice.

514
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 6: Would this even qualify to be trademarked? In the case

515
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 6: of Matthew McConaughey, that's a phrase he's widely associated with.

516
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 6: You could almost hear his drawl saying it. But these

517
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 6: phrases from Taylor Swift don't stand out in any way.

518
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 6: I mean, is this even going to get a trademark?

519
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know.

520
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 8: Obviously we'll have to see, but trademark is not a given.

521
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 8: You know, you have to show actual use in the

522
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 8: class that you are trying to register, and so you

523
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 8: have to show that you've used that exact phrase to

524
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 8: market or sell a product or service and you know

525
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 8: that you are using it as a source indicator. So,

526
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 8: I mean, Taylor Swift has a massive amount of product.

527
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 8: You go to, say, like a target. I don't know,

528
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 8: there might be a doll out there that looks like

529
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 8: a little girl with a microphone that goes, I'm Taylor Sweat.

530
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 8: You know, like if she does have products and services

531
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 8: out there where she can show that that phrase has

532
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 8: been used by her or her company as a you know,

533
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 8: mark origination from her, It's possible, but I think it's

534
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 8: a little bit, you know, might be a trickier hurdle.

535
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 8: Like often you see it's the tag on a clothing,

536
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 8: you know, back of a T shirt that shows this

537
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 8: is where this came from, or it is the branding

538
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 8: on a website that describes a particular type of service,

539
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 8: you know, the evidence to show people that this is

540
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 8: out there in the marketplace as a source indicator. I

541
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 8: am not familiar with a product that Taylor has put

542
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 8: out using those particular catchphrases, but I don't know her

543
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 8: full suite, you know, I do know more so than

544
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 8: the traditional artist, she's she's a mogul in the sense

545
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 8: of she's got a lot of branded goods out there,

546
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 8: so if she can show it, it's possible. And I

547
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 8: don't know also for sure how you know, there's some

548
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 8: subjectivity into all of this.

549
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: You're going to have an examiner who's a person.

550
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 8: At the end of the day sitting in the trademark office,

551
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 8: and they are going to probably understand who Taylor Swift

552
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 8: is and what she's trying to do, and it's possible

553
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 8: that they may give her more deference than they perhaps

554
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 8: would to somebody else just trying to trademark their voice,

555
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 8: because you know, if she's trying to protect my understanding

556
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 8: is against deep fakes, you know, and the like, and.

557
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: They may they may give her some more deference there.

558
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: I don't know.

559
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 6: So suppose she does get it trademarked and she wants

560
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 6: to go against a deep fake, can she only go

561
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 6: against one.

562
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 5: Where these particular words are spoken?

563
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 8: Yes, So that is exactly you know, she's going to

564
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 8: get only the very specific marks. There's some like expanded

565
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 8: so you only register a specific class of goods. But

566
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 8: if it's sort of within the realm of a likely

567
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 8: extension of that, there's a little bit of leeway there,

568
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 8: a little bit of access, you know, if this is

569
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 8: something that naturally would be expanded upon. But it's going

570
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 8: to be limited to the mark, to the specific phrase

571
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 8: that she is registering.

572
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: It's not just generally my voice.

573
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 5: So then how far does that get her?

574
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 6: If you know, everyone is anticipating this is going to

575
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 6: be used to fight some of the deep fake AI.

576
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 6: So if it's just those two phrases, how far does

577
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 6: that get her?

578
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 5: Not very far?

579
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: That far? I mean, I don't know what's out there.

580
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 8: Perhaps you know, there have been some attempts already that

581
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,239
Speaker 8: she might be aware of yeah, and she's doing what

582
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 8: she can as well. I would say, you know, look,

583
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,239
Speaker 8: right of publicity. Unfortunately, we don't have a federal right

584
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 8: of publicity. You know, it's a patchwork of states. It's

585
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 8: not the best, you know, adding more.

586
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: To your potential arsenal.

587
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 8: You know, it's not that costly at all, relatively speaking,

588
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 8: to file a trademark application and go through the process.

589
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 8: I mean, if I were her, I would do everything

590
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 8: I could to add to my potential arsenal of things

591
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 8: that I could use to go against people.

592
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: So why not?

593
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 8: I think it also helps just to put it out there,

594
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 8: the pr and the press of the hey, I'm not

595
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 8: going to stand for this. Look at what I'm doing,

596
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 8: should kind of put the world on notice as well that,

597
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 8: you know, you might want to think twice before you

598
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 8: do a deep fake with Taylor Swift because she's she's

599
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 8: not into.

600
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: It, so you know, that helps.

601
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 8: And then there's also you know, the likeness aspect of

602
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 8: it as well. I don't know, but it seems like

603
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 8: some people might have tried to put images of her,

604
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 8: you know, saying these phrases looking a certain way and

605
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 8: manipulating them, and you know there probably was something out

606
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 8: there that they found that this might be you know,

607
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 8: reactionary too. So usually something happens and she's upset and

608
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 8: she calls her words, is.

609
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 7: What can we do?

610
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 8: And they say, okay, here's some ideas. So it's certainly

611
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 8: not going to be one hundred percent fool proof, but

612
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 8: can only help. And I think there is a big

613
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 8: thing to it it being out there as you can

614
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 8: see in the press, picking it up and putting the

615
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 8: world on notice. You know that she's ready to fight,

616
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 8: so that might be part of the strategy as well.

617
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 6: She has filed more than three hundred trademark applications in

618
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 6: the US alone, so I think this is.

619
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 5: Not unusual for her.

620
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 6: She's also trademarking a photo holding a pink guitar with

621
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 6: a black strap and wearing a multicolored irridescent body suit

622
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 6: with silver boots from one of her concerts, So then again,

623
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 6: it would only be that particular image that would be trademarked, correct.

624
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: I mean, with some leeway, you know a little bit.

625
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 8: I think if you change the color of the boots slightly,

626
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 8: you know it's still going to get picked up.

627
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: But it's a specific image. Then you have to look

628
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: at the.

629
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 8: Exact application and how she files it, you know, where

630
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 8: you make references to is she trying to get you know,

631
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 8: all of the colors or some of the colors. You

632
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 8: have to just the lines and then the depiction in

633
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 8: a certain way. And like there is some leeway for

634
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 8: things that are confusingly similar in nature, but it's not

635
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 8: a broad anything that resembles Taylor Swiat kind of thing.

636
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 7: You know.

637
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 8: Whoever creates the photos or the drawings, you know, photographers,

638
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 8: the copyright would best in them generally, but she's got

639
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 8: other avenues of protection. If people are using copyrighted photos

640
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 8: to make deep fakes.

641
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 6: And things like that, what generally happens is her lawyers

642
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 6: will send a cease and desist letter and I guess

643
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 6: they can put in it this is a trademarked image

644
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 6: or trademarked voice.

645
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 8: It just adds to the potential claims and the potential

646
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 8: damages you know, that they can ask for in the

647
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 8: cease and desist, and you know, gives them more ammunition

648
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 8: of you violated this law and that law and this

649
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 8: and you know, and the penalties and the remedies under

650
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 8: the Landman Act Federal are going to be you know,

651
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 8: some more substantial damages than just some of the patchwork,

652
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 8: depending what state we're in of the right of publicity claims.

653
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 8: So yeah, that could be much more scale as well

654
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 8: to a potential recipient when you see large numbers and

655
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 8: potential consequences, that you might just take it down. I

656
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 8: would be hard pressed that anybody if I got to

657
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 8: cease and desist from Taylor Swift's team, that I wouldn't

658
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 8: just take it down.

659
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 6: So yeah, I mean, I don't know how much more

660
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 6: they need in their legal arsenal, but every bit counts,

661
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 6: I guess.

662
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, although I will say this is I mean, I've

663
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 8: seen this on every news network, so everybody's covering it.

664
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 8: I think it's also helpful in general for and maybe

665
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 8: this might be part of her thought process for all

666
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 8: celebrities and all artists, because not everybody is in a

667
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 8: position to be Taylor Swift, and so if she starts

668
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 8: to set a precedent that other people can follow suit with,

669
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 8: it further strengthens the position of all celebrities to say,

670
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 8: you know, we're looking for avenues, and perhaps it starts

671
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 8: to impact those in the lawmaking as well.

672
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 2: You know, we've been we've been looking for some more protections.

673
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 8: At AI develops to say, you know, we need some

674
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 8: strength that you know, we need to have some precedent created,

675
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 8: and whether that comes through the courts or whether that

676
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 8: comes through the legislatures for essentially famous people not to

677
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 8: have AI use their name, image, likeness, voice, what not

678
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 8: to imply endorsement of things that they don't endorse or

679
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 8: you know, I think there's some pornographic things that happen

680
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 8: as well.

681
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: And all of that.

682
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 8: Her kind of getting out in front of this I

683
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 8: think helps everybody else who's in a similar vook. Granted

684
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 8: it's only going to help celebrities who probably you know, but.

685
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: There are different tiers of celebrities.

686
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 8: I will say, you know, kudos for to her and

687
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 8: getting getting ahead of it. And ultimately the goal of

688
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 8: trademarkt all that you know, is to prevent confusion in

689
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 8: the marketplace from from consumers not knowing if Taylor is

690
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 8: really endorsing something or not.

691
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: So it's a good step and even if it's not enough, it.

692
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 6: Helps adding some more ammunition to those ce syn desist letters.

693
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 6: Thanks so much, Cynthia. That's Cynthia Katz of Fox Rothschild,

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00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 6: and that's it for this edition of The Bloomberg Law Show.

695
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 6: Remember you can always get the latest legal news on

696
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 6: our Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

697
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 6: and at www dot bloomberg dot com slash podcast slash Law.

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00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 6: I'm June Grosso. Stay with us. Today's top stories and

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00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 6: global business headlines are coming up right now