1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:22,850 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Trust is at the center of so many cautionary tales. 2 00:00:23,250 --> 00:00:25,610 Speaker 1: I've told you about the people who trusted a man 3 00:00:25,650 --> 00:00:29,130 Speaker 1: in uniform and allowed him to steal from the city coffers, 4 00:00:29,810 --> 00:00:32,170 Speaker 1: and the woman who drove into the desert because she 5 00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:35,530 Speaker 1: trusted the sat now ahead of her instincts. Then there 6 00:00:35,570 --> 00:00:39,730 Speaker 1: was the celebrity author who trusted photographs of fairies as 7 00:00:39,890 --> 00:00:43,250 Speaker 1: proof of their existence. We've had people who trusted in 8 00:00:43,330 --> 00:00:46,570 Speaker 1: technology when they shouldn't, and those who didn't trust it 9 00:00:46,970 --> 00:00:50,250 Speaker 1: when they should and that's before we get to the doctors, 10 00:00:50,450 --> 00:00:54,330 Speaker 1: business leaders, and scammers who abuse the trust put in them. 11 00:00:55,490 --> 00:00:59,330 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by questions of trust, and given that you're 12 00:00:59,410 --> 00:01:03,170 Speaker 1: a loyal listener to cautionary tales, I'm guessing you're quite 13 00:01:03,250 --> 00:01:07,090 Speaker 1: interested in them too, And that's why I've invited Rachel 14 00:01:07,210 --> 00:01:11,770 Speaker 1: Botsman to join me for a special edition of Cautionary Questions. 15 00:01:12,610 --> 00:01:16,330 Speaker 1: Rachel is the author of the new audiobook How to 16 00:01:16,410 --> 00:01:20,890 Speaker 1: Trust and Be Trusted, So do better to answer your 17 00:01:20,930 --> 00:01:25,210 Speaker 1: trust questions. Maybe you'd like to know why we naturally 18 00:01:25,250 --> 00:01:29,890 Speaker 1: trust some people but recoil from others. Maybe you're curious 19 00:01:29,890 --> 00:01:33,330 Speaker 1: about why so many people are taken in by particular 20 00:01:33,530 --> 00:01:37,650 Speaker 1: historical figures, there might be an episode of cautionary tales 21 00:01:37,690 --> 00:01:40,850 Speaker 1: that makes you tear your hair out at the gullibility 22 00:01:40,850 --> 00:01:44,610 Speaker 1: of those involved. Are we right to be suspicious? Whenever 23 00:01:44,650 --> 00:01:51,010 Speaker 1: a politician says trust me? Can being too distrustful be 24 00:01:51,050 --> 00:01:55,930 Speaker 1: as dangerous as being too trusting? Whatever your query, you 25 00:01:55,970 --> 00:01:59,010 Speaker 1: can trust Rachel to have the answers, So send them 26 00:01:59,050 --> 00:02:03,050 Speaker 1: two tales at pushkin dot FM. That's t a l 27 00:02:03,170 --> 00:02:11,970 Speaker 1: e s at Pushkin dot FM. Fifty eight year old 28 00:02:12,170 --> 00:02:15,050 Speaker 1: Jean Marshall Brown were sitting in the cabin of a 29 00:02:15,090 --> 00:02:19,010 Speaker 1: Pan American seven four seven. She ran a travel company 30 00:02:19,050 --> 00:02:22,490 Speaker 1: in La Mesa, California. She was leading a group of 31 00:02:22,570 --> 00:02:26,330 Speaker 1: retired holidaymakers on a twelve day cruise of the Mediterranean. 32 00:02:26,770 --> 00:02:29,730 Speaker 1: The trip hadn't got off to the best of starts. 33 00:02:30,370 --> 00:02:32,730 Speaker 1: That had to divert to the next island over from 34 00:02:32,730 --> 00:02:35,970 Speaker 1: where their cruise ship was waiting. But now at last 35 00:02:36,290 --> 00:02:39,650 Speaker 1: they were taxiing down the runway, ready for the final 36 00:02:39,850 --> 00:02:45,650 Speaker 1: short leg of their journey. When what on earth was that? 37 00:02:46,570 --> 00:02:51,650 Speaker 1: Whatever just happened, some passengers near Jean when killed. Over 38 00:02:51,690 --> 00:02:54,810 Speaker 1: the next few minutes, the ruptured cabin of the pan 39 00:02:54,850 --> 00:02:59,010 Speaker 1: and plane will be consumed by explosions, smoke and fire, 40 00:02:59,690 --> 00:03:03,370 Speaker 1: and as Jean sits in her seat, the thought pops 41 00:03:03,410 --> 00:03:04,130 Speaker 1: into her head. 42 00:03:05,250 --> 00:03:07,250 Speaker 2: This is the way it feels to die in an 43 00:03:07,250 --> 00:03:08,130 Speaker 2: airplane crash. 44 00:03:10,090 --> 00:03:12,770 Speaker 1: This is the second of our two part series on 45 00:03:12,850 --> 00:03:16,930 Speaker 1: the Tenerif Air disaster of nineteen seventy seven, when two 46 00:03:17,170 --> 00:03:21,650 Speaker 1: jumbo jets collided on the runway. It remains the deadliest 47 00:03:21,730 --> 00:03:26,770 Speaker 1: accident in aviation history. In the previous episode, we asked 48 00:03:26,810 --> 00:03:30,010 Speaker 1: why the captain of one of those airliners operated by 49 00:03:30,090 --> 00:03:34,850 Speaker 1: KLM mistakenly believed had been cleared to take off when 50 00:03:34,850 --> 00:03:38,330 Speaker 1: the runway was still blocked by the taxiing pan Am. 51 00:03:38,890 --> 00:03:42,330 Speaker 1: We heard how everyone on that KLM plane died in 52 00:03:42,410 --> 00:03:45,570 Speaker 1: an instant fireball as it clipped the top of the 53 00:03:45,610 --> 00:03:49,610 Speaker 1: pan Am then scudded down the runway. But on the 54 00:03:49,610 --> 00:03:53,570 Speaker 1: PanAm plane, a lot of people survived the impact, people 55 00:03:54,090 --> 00:03:59,090 Speaker 1: like Jean Marshall Brown. In this episode, like the previous one, 56 00:03:59,970 --> 00:04:03,370 Speaker 1: will explore a quirk of the human brain. This time 57 00:04:03,810 --> 00:04:06,570 Speaker 1: we'll look at how the brain works in the moments 58 00:04:06,730 --> 00:04:11,850 Speaker 1: after disaster strikes suddenly and unexpectedly. How would you react? 59 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:20,010 Speaker 1: It may not be how you'd hope. Jean sat in 60 00:04:20,090 --> 00:04:23,730 Speaker 1: her seat. Time passed was hard to say how long. 61 00:04:24,730 --> 00:04:29,850 Speaker 1: The fire caused by the impact grew stronger. Smoke started 62 00:04:29,850 --> 00:04:34,370 Speaker 1: to fill the cabin, but Jean still didn't move. She 63 00:04:34,650 --> 00:04:40,730 Speaker 1: just sat and watched. I'm Tim Harford, and you're listening 64 00:04:40,970 --> 00:05:10,090 Speaker 1: to cautionary tales Hanam. Captain Victor gre Rubs and First 65 00:05:10,130 --> 00:05:14,370 Speaker 1: Officer Robert Bragg have had a frustrating afternoon. They've flown 66 00:05:14,490 --> 00:05:16,930 Speaker 1: through the night from New York to the Canary Islands, 67 00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:19,970 Speaker 1: but just before they could land on Grand Canaria, a 68 00:05:20,050 --> 00:05:23,130 Speaker 1: bomb threat closed the airport. They've had to divert to 69 00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:26,850 Speaker 1: the tiny airport on the nearby island of Tenerif. When 70 00:05:26,850 --> 00:05:29,530 Speaker 1: they get there, they discover lots of other planes have 71 00:05:29,570 --> 00:05:33,450 Speaker 1: been diverted before them, including another seven four seven the 72 00:05:33,570 --> 00:05:38,530 Speaker 1: KLM ITS captain has let his passengers disembark to kill 73 00:05:38,610 --> 00:05:41,530 Speaker 1: time in the terminal, which is now rammed to capacity. 74 00:05:42,570 --> 00:05:47,090 Speaker 1: Grubbs has to tell his passengers to stay on their plane. 75 00:05:47,370 --> 00:05:50,010 Speaker 1: He feels bad about that most have been on board 76 00:05:50,050 --> 00:05:54,730 Speaker 1: since California. He decides to invite everyone for a tour 77 00:05:54,810 --> 00:05:58,450 Speaker 1: of the cockpit and repeats the same apologetic story. 78 00:05:59,410 --> 00:06:01,650 Speaker 3: I asked if we could circle in the air until 79 00:06:01,690 --> 00:06:04,170 Speaker 3: they were ready, but they insisted we land here. 80 00:06:05,290 --> 00:06:07,650 Speaker 1: They've been hanging around for a couple of hours when 81 00:06:07,730 --> 00:06:12,450 Speaker 1: word came through the Grand Canaria's airport is open. The 82 00:06:12,570 --> 00:06:16,010 Speaker 1: KLM captain has chosen this moment to start taking on 83 00:06:16,170 --> 00:06:19,450 Speaker 1: more fuel, and his plane is blocking their way to 84 00:06:19,490 --> 00:06:25,730 Speaker 1: the runway. Could they squeeze past? Captain Grubbs sends Robert 85 00:06:25,730 --> 00:06:28,770 Speaker 1: Bragg and the flight engineer to pace out the distance 86 00:06:29,290 --> 00:06:33,850 Speaker 1: to come back with bad news. The tarmac is just 87 00:06:33,890 --> 00:06:37,170 Speaker 1: a few feet too narrow. That have to put one 88 00:06:37,210 --> 00:06:39,490 Speaker 1: set of wheels on the grass. But the ground is 89 00:06:39,570 --> 00:06:44,130 Speaker 1: soft and the plane weighs over three hundred tons. They 90 00:06:44,130 --> 00:06:49,650 Speaker 1: can't risk getting stuck. Grubs is annoyed. Another delay and 91 00:06:49,730 --> 00:06:52,930 Speaker 1: now thick fog is rolling in. Are they going to 92 00:06:52,930 --> 00:06:55,530 Speaker 1: be able to take off at all? He calls the 93 00:06:55,610 --> 00:06:56,970 Speaker 1: KLM captain. 94 00:06:57,130 --> 00:06:59,730 Speaker 3: How much longer are you going to be without refueling? 95 00:07:00,370 --> 00:07:04,730 Speaker 1: About twenty minutes comes the reply. At last, the fuel 96 00:07:04,770 --> 00:07:08,450 Speaker 1: trucks depart and the KLM starts to taxi down the runway. 97 00:07:09,370 --> 00:07:11,890 Speaker 1: Grubs is told to follow them and take the third 98 00:07:12,050 --> 00:07:16,650 Speaker 1: exit to the left. It's so foggy they take it slowly, 99 00:07:16,810 --> 00:07:19,930 Speaker 1: Just three miles an hour looking at an airport map 100 00:07:20,010 --> 00:07:23,210 Speaker 1: and peering through the window. Was that an exit? 101 00:07:23,290 --> 00:07:23,530 Speaker 3: There? 102 00:07:24,330 --> 00:07:28,130 Speaker 1: On the radio, grubs Brag and the flight engineer hear 103 00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:31,850 Speaker 1: the KLM plane talking to the control tower. Sounds like 104 00:07:31,850 --> 00:07:34,530 Speaker 1: they've already reached the end of the runway and turned around. 105 00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:36,970 Speaker 2: We're now at takeoff. 106 00:07:38,010 --> 00:07:41,330 Speaker 1: Now at takeoff, you better not try to take off yet. 107 00:07:42,170 --> 00:07:44,570 Speaker 1: First off, as a Brag reaches for the radio. 108 00:07:45,170 --> 00:07:47,970 Speaker 3: And we're still texting down the runway. The clipper once 109 00:07:48,090 --> 00:07:52,530 Speaker 3: seven three six, Roger paba out for one seven three six, 110 00:07:52,610 --> 00:07:56,610 Speaker 3: report the runway clear. Okay, we'll report when we're clear. 111 00:07:57,250 --> 00:08:00,130 Speaker 1: So the controller now knows that they're still on the runway. 112 00:08:01,010 --> 00:08:04,050 Speaker 1: But the message from the KLM plane has made the 113 00:08:04,090 --> 00:08:08,970 Speaker 1: mood in the cockpit uneasy. Where is that exit? 114 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:11,410 Speaker 2: Let's get the hell out of here. 115 00:08:11,770 --> 00:08:15,650 Speaker 1: Says grubs Brag, and the flight engineer grumble about the 116 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:19,130 Speaker 1: KLM captain. He sounds like he's in a hurry now 117 00:08:19,290 --> 00:08:23,490 Speaker 1: after he held them up to refuel. The bastard, says one. 118 00:08:23,730 --> 00:08:27,170 Speaker 1: The prick agrees the other, and now grub says he 119 00:08:27,770 --> 00:08:31,850 Speaker 1: is through the murk. Captain Grubbs has seen headlights on 120 00:08:31,890 --> 00:08:36,210 Speaker 1: the runway ahead for a moment, he seems to assume 121 00:08:36,290 --> 00:08:39,730 Speaker 1: the KLM plane must be stationary, waiting at the end 122 00:08:39,730 --> 00:08:42,410 Speaker 1: of the runway to be cleared to take off. Perhaps 123 00:08:42,450 --> 00:08:45,050 Speaker 1: they've missed their exit and got almost to the end 124 00:08:45,050 --> 00:08:50,330 Speaker 1: of the runway themselves. Hold on those headlights, getting closer 125 00:08:51,410 --> 00:08:55,490 Speaker 1: they are. That KLM plane is moving. It's moving quickly. 126 00:08:55,810 --> 00:08:57,490 Speaker 1: It's heading straight for them. 127 00:08:57,810 --> 00:09:01,250 Speaker 2: Look at him. God, damn, that's some of the bitches coming. 128 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:04,730 Speaker 3: Get off, Get off, Get off. 129 00:09:05,450 --> 00:09:08,770 Speaker 1: Grubs and Brag both yank their controls hard to the left. 130 00:09:09,130 --> 00:09:12,210 Speaker 1: Grubs slams the throttle open. It's clear to them both 131 00:09:12,250 --> 00:09:14,970 Speaker 1: that the KLM plane won't be able to stop. All 132 00:09:15,010 --> 00:09:17,130 Speaker 1: they can do is try to get their own plane 133 00:09:17,210 --> 00:09:21,690 Speaker 1: off the runway. It responds to their controls, but agonizingly slowly. 134 00:09:22,010 --> 00:09:25,170 Speaker 1: It weighs over three hundred tons after all. It starts 135 00:09:25,170 --> 00:09:28,890 Speaker 1: a lumbering turn towards the edge of the runway. Its 136 00:09:28,890 --> 00:09:33,130 Speaker 1: speed inches up to nineteen miles an hour. The first 137 00:09:33,210 --> 00:09:36,330 Speaker 1: set of wheels, just under the nose drops off the 138 00:09:36,410 --> 00:09:39,810 Speaker 1: runway and onto the grass. Brag glances out of the 139 00:09:39,850 --> 00:09:43,610 Speaker 1: window to his right. The KLM plane is right upon them. 140 00:09:43,770 --> 00:09:46,690 Speaker 1: It's beginning to lift but not high enough. He sees 141 00:09:46,730 --> 00:09:49,010 Speaker 1: the red rotating beacon on its undercarriage. 142 00:09:50,250 --> 00:09:53,090 Speaker 3: It's the only time in my life I have ever 143 00:09:53,130 --> 00:09:55,890 Speaker 3: saw something happening that I could not believe was happening. 144 00:09:56,330 --> 00:10:02,330 Speaker 1: Instinctively, Brag and Grubs close their eyes and duck. The 145 00:10:02,410 --> 00:10:07,730 Speaker 1: moment of impact feels surprisingly gentle, a bump and some shaking. 146 00:10:08,570 --> 00:10:11,210 Speaker 3: It was a very slight impact for a slight noise 147 00:10:11,290 --> 00:10:14,570 Speaker 3: like that was about it. It was so minor it 148 00:10:14,650 --> 00:10:17,530 Speaker 3: was unbelievable until I outen my eyes. 149 00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:24,490 Speaker 1: The first thing Bragg sees is the cockpit windows are gone. 150 00:10:25,530 --> 00:10:27,730 Speaker 1: The next thing he sees is a fire on the 151 00:10:27,770 --> 00:10:28,570 Speaker 1: wing to his right. 152 00:10:29,890 --> 00:10:30,890 Speaker 2: He reaches up to. 153 00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:33,050 Speaker 1: Pull the levers that will cut off the flow of 154 00:10:33,130 --> 00:10:36,690 Speaker 1: fuel to the engines. The levers should be right above 155 00:10:36,770 --> 00:10:40,130 Speaker 1: him on the ceiling, but his hands are grasping at air. 156 00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:45,650 Speaker 1: He looks up. The levers aren't there, nor is the ceiling. 157 00:10:47,010 --> 00:10:50,850 Speaker 1: Picture A seven four seven. That hump on the top 158 00:10:50,890 --> 00:10:54,210 Speaker 1: of the fuselage near the nose, the cockpits at the 159 00:10:54,210 --> 00:10:57,970 Speaker 1: front of that hump. Behind it on this plane was 160 00:10:58,050 --> 00:11:02,490 Speaker 1: the first class lounge. When Bragg looks behind him, the 161 00:11:02,570 --> 00:11:05,730 Speaker 1: lounge is gone, sheared away completely. 162 00:11:07,090 --> 00:11:10,370 Speaker 3: I could see all away the tail of the airplane, 163 00:11:10,730 --> 00:11:13,570 Speaker 3: just like someone had taken a big knife and slice 164 00:11:13,610 --> 00:11:15,890 Speaker 3: their tire top of the cabin of the airplane off. 165 00:11:17,570 --> 00:11:20,050 Speaker 1: Captain Grubbs is first to get out of his seat. 166 00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:23,570 Speaker 1: He turns to look back at where the lounge used 167 00:11:23,610 --> 00:11:28,050 Speaker 1: to be. It had twenty eight passengers in it. One 168 00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:31,250 Speaker 1: a woman is lying on what's left of the floor. 169 00:11:31,930 --> 00:11:34,610 Speaker 1: Grubs walks over towards her, but before he can get there, 170 00:11:35,130 --> 00:11:38,850 Speaker 1: the floor collapses under him. First off, as a brag 171 00:11:38,850 --> 00:11:42,410 Speaker 1: gets out of his seat. There's now only about a 172 00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:46,010 Speaker 1: foot of floor left behind him in the cockpit. How's 173 00:11:46,050 --> 00:11:48,730 Speaker 1: he going to get out of the plane? There is 174 00:11:48,850 --> 00:11:55,010 Speaker 1: one direct way out. It's thirty eight feet down to 175 00:11:55,090 --> 00:11:59,170 Speaker 1: the ground. He grabs hold of the captain's seat to 176 00:11:59,210 --> 00:12:12,250 Speaker 1: steady himself and jumps. Three hundred and ninety six people 177 00:12:12,290 --> 00:12:18,290 Speaker 1: were on board that PanAm flight seventy one made it out, 178 00:12:18,610 --> 00:12:22,930 Speaker 1: though some later died from their injuries. At the moment 179 00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:27,290 Speaker 1: of impact, the plane was angled across the runway, the 180 00:12:27,330 --> 00:12:31,970 Speaker 1: result of the pilot's attempted left turn. The KLM plane lifted, 181 00:12:32,570 --> 00:12:37,130 Speaker 1: but not high enough. An engine and landing gear ripped 182 00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:41,730 Speaker 1: through parts of the PanAm cabin. The passengers sitting directly 183 00:12:41,770 --> 00:12:44,490 Speaker 1: in their path, such as those in the first class lounge, 184 00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:49,450 Speaker 1: never stood a chance. But what about those in other 185 00:12:49,570 --> 00:12:51,970 Speaker 1: seats who weren't in the way of the engine or 186 00:12:51,970 --> 00:12:55,250 Speaker 1: the landing gear. Could more of them have made it 187 00:12:55,290 --> 00:13:00,610 Speaker 1: out alive? Why didn't they? We'll explore how the mind 188 00:13:00,690 --> 00:13:12,050 Speaker 1: responds to a sudden crisis after the break. One night 189 00:13:12,090 --> 00:13:16,930 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen tens, the Harvard physiologist Walter Bradford 190 00:13:16,970 --> 00:13:23,530 Speaker 1: Cannon woke up with a flash of inspiration. Canon was 191 00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:27,210 Speaker 1: writing a book about how emotions affect the functioning of 192 00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:32,090 Speaker 1: animal's bodies. It was a new field of inquiry, and 193 00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:35,250 Speaker 1: he'd stumbled across it by accident. When using the newly 194 00:13:35,290 --> 00:13:39,370 Speaker 1: discovered technique of X rays to study how digestion works, 195 00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:45,010 Speaker 1: Canon experimented on cats. It'd feed them some food mixed 196 00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:48,090 Speaker 1: with bismuth salts, which show up on X rays. Then 197 00:13:48,170 --> 00:13:52,090 Speaker 1: he'd tie them down and watch on the fluoroscopic screen 198 00:13:52,570 --> 00:13:55,930 Speaker 1: as the food traveled down the esophagus into the stomach. 199 00:13:57,690 --> 00:14:02,370 Speaker 1: The cats, not surprisingly, sometimes took exception to being restrained. 200 00:14:02,890 --> 00:14:08,250 Speaker 1: They'd cry out and struggle to get free. Canon noticed 201 00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:12,250 Speaker 1: something intes whenever a cat got distressed. 202 00:14:12,890 --> 00:14:17,850 Speaker 3: The movements in the stomach entirely disappeared. I continued stroking 203 00:14:17,890 --> 00:14:21,690 Speaker 3: the cat reassuringly. She became quiet and began to purr. 204 00:14:22,290 --> 00:14:25,250 Speaker 3: As soon as this happened, the movements commenced again in 205 00:14:25,290 --> 00:14:25,770 Speaker 3: the stomach. 206 00:14:27,410 --> 00:14:30,770 Speaker 1: Canon was intrigued. The cat's body seemed to be saying, 207 00:14:30,810 --> 00:14:34,530 Speaker 1: in effect, I can't afford to waste energy on digesting 208 00:14:34,610 --> 00:14:37,850 Speaker 1: food right now. I've got more important things to worry about. 209 00:14:39,250 --> 00:14:42,690 Speaker 1: What else changed about how an animal's body functions when 210 00:14:42,730 --> 00:14:47,650 Speaker 1: it gets upset, Canon found a whole range of common responses. 211 00:14:48,490 --> 00:14:52,530 Speaker 1: The pulse quickens, there's a spike in blood, sugar, more 212 00:14:52,570 --> 00:14:56,650 Speaker 1: secretion from the adrenal glands. The book Canon was writing 213 00:14:56,930 --> 00:15:01,410 Speaker 1: is called bodily changes in pain, hunger, fear, and rage. 214 00:15:02,090 --> 00:15:05,330 Speaker 1: It became a classic due in part to the sudden 215 00:15:05,610 --> 00:15:08,970 Speaker 1: inspiration that woke him up in the night. A clever 216 00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:13,090 Speaker 1: form of words to tie together the physiological changes he'd discovered. 217 00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:18,410 Speaker 3: The idea flashed through my mind that they could be 218 00:15:18,530 --> 00:15:23,170 Speaker 3: nicely integrated if conceived as bodily preparations for supreme effort 219 00:15:23,530 --> 00:15:25,450 Speaker 3: in flight or in fighting. 220 00:15:26,850 --> 00:15:31,810 Speaker 1: Fight or flight. It's a great phrase still in common use. 221 00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:35,610 Speaker 1: More than a century later. In terms of evolution, it 222 00:15:35,690 --> 00:15:39,370 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. That's what animals typically have to do 223 00:15:39,450 --> 00:15:44,330 Speaker 1: when they're in mortal peril, either fight back or run away. 224 00:15:45,330 --> 00:15:49,330 Speaker 1: We humans, too, experience that fight or flight suite of 225 00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:53,730 Speaker 1: bodily changes in moments of sudden stress, but our first 226 00:15:53,770 --> 00:15:58,370 Speaker 1: response is often not to fight or flee. Cannon's alliteration 227 00:15:58,890 --> 00:16:02,850 Speaker 1: was incomplete, as we'll hear he missed out the most 228 00:16:02,970 --> 00:16:10,770 Speaker 1: common f of all. In the cabin of pan Am 229 00:16:10,810 --> 00:16:14,970 Speaker 1: flight one seven three six, the passengers haven't heard that 230 00:16:15,130 --> 00:16:19,370 Speaker 1: ominous radio message from the KLM plane we're now at takeoff. 231 00:16:20,450 --> 00:16:22,610 Speaker 1: Most of them haven't been looking out of a right 232 00:16:22,650 --> 00:16:25,490 Speaker 1: hand window to see the headlights approaching through the fog. 233 00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:29,690 Speaker 1: As far as they're concerned, this is just a routine 234 00:16:29,730 --> 00:16:36,570 Speaker 1: taxi down the runway before a routine flight, a yawning, chatting, reading, 235 00:16:36,970 --> 00:16:40,930 Speaker 1: slipping off their shoes, arranging their bags under their seats. When, 236 00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:47,010 Speaker 1: as in the cockpit, the initial noise doesn't convey the 237 00:16:47,010 --> 00:16:51,850 Speaker 1: severity of what's just happened, Survivors later liken it to 238 00:16:51,930 --> 00:16:57,050 Speaker 1: a snapping twig, a swarm of bees passing overhead, or 239 00:16:57,090 --> 00:17:01,210 Speaker 1: a length of adhesive tape being ripped off. One woman 240 00:17:01,370 --> 00:17:04,530 Speaker 1: assumes that the shuddering thump must mean that the pilot 241 00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:06,970 Speaker 1: has veered off the edge of the runway in the fog, 242 00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:11,650 Speaker 1: how annoyingly careless of him. No doubt, they'll have to 243 00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:15,810 Speaker 1: queue up now for the emergency exits. She calmly leans 244 00:17:15,850 --> 00:17:19,770 Speaker 1: forward and reaches under the seat for her handbag, puts 245 00:17:19,810 --> 00:17:24,170 Speaker 1: the strap over her shoulder, gets up and looks around. 246 00:17:26,530 --> 00:17:32,010 Speaker 1: Only then does she see the carnage, blood and bodies everywhere. 247 00:17:33,410 --> 00:17:37,170 Speaker 1: Some people are dead, Some have been hurt by flying 248 00:17:37,170 --> 00:17:40,810 Speaker 1: bits of metal or the overhead luggage bins collapsing on 249 00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:45,330 Speaker 1: top of them. Still others are unscathed, just confused about 250 00:17:45,370 --> 00:17:48,930 Speaker 1: what's happened. They've been talk of a bomb scare at 251 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:53,890 Speaker 1: the airport. Was it a bomb? It's hard to imagine 252 00:17:53,930 --> 00:17:58,210 Speaker 1: your world being torn apart like that. It's hard to 253 00:17:58,210 --> 00:18:01,930 Speaker 1: guess how you'd react. We all hope we'd react like 254 00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:06,410 Speaker 1: passenger Jack Rideout, a thirty three year old entrepreneur sitting 255 00:18:06,450 --> 00:18:10,370 Speaker 1: in first class. The first thing ride Out does is 256 00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:13,610 Speaker 1: blurt out a call to action, seemingly as much to 257 00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:18,250 Speaker 1: himself as anyone. This is it, says ride Out. He 258 00:18:18,330 --> 00:18:21,810 Speaker 1: unclips his seat belt, and gets up. He sees his 259 00:18:21,850 --> 00:18:26,450 Speaker 1: girlfriend next to him, struggling to get her belt undone. 260 00:18:26,490 --> 00:18:29,210 Speaker 1: He helps her up, and the two find their footing 261 00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:32,290 Speaker 1: in the aisle amid the fallen contents of the overhead 262 00:18:32,370 --> 00:18:36,570 Speaker 1: luggage bins. Rideout looks to the right. He sees the 263 00:18:36,610 --> 00:18:39,450 Speaker 1: fire starting on the wing. He looks to the left, 264 00:18:40,410 --> 00:18:44,530 Speaker 1: he sees a hole ripped in the fuselage. He notices 265 00:18:44,570 --> 00:18:46,770 Speaker 1: that the plane seems to be tilting to the left. 266 00:18:47,890 --> 00:18:51,090 Speaker 1: That's the way to get out, then further from the fire, 267 00:18:51,610 --> 00:18:54,770 Speaker 1: closer to the ground. Those engines are gonna blow. 268 00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:56,170 Speaker 2: We've got to get out of here. 269 00:18:57,090 --> 00:18:59,890 Speaker 1: The hole in the fuselage is where the emergency exit 270 00:19:00,010 --> 00:19:05,210 Speaker 1: door used to be. The door has gone, so is 271 00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:08,650 Speaker 1: the door frame, so is the inflatable shoot that should 272 00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:12,850 Speaker 1: activate when the door is opened. All that's left is 273 00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:16,730 Speaker 1: a gaping hole framed by jagged metal, and a twenty 274 00:19:16,770 --> 00:19:21,130 Speaker 1: foot drop to the tarmac below. The girlfriend gets to 275 00:19:21,170 --> 00:19:27,530 Speaker 1: the hole, looks down and hesitates. This is no time 276 00:19:27,570 --> 00:19:33,850 Speaker 1: to hesitate. Ride Out shouts her out, but he doesn't 277 00:19:33,930 --> 00:19:38,970 Speaker 1: jump himself. He turns back into the cabin, telling others 278 00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:39,490 Speaker 1: what to do. 279 00:19:39,930 --> 00:19:41,210 Speaker 2: This way, come with me. 280 00:19:41,970 --> 00:19:45,490 Speaker 1: He sees a flight attendant struggling to inflate a rubber raft. 281 00:19:46,650 --> 00:19:49,210 Speaker 1: That's a good idea, it'll give people something to land on. 282 00:19:50,170 --> 00:19:53,690 Speaker 1: He goes to help her, but by now the fires 283 00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:59,050 Speaker 1: starting to spread, Oxygen canisters and fire extinguishers are exploding 284 00:19:59,090 --> 00:20:02,330 Speaker 1: in the heat. A fragment of metal shoots across the 285 00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:06,450 Speaker 1: cabin and hits the attendant in the head, killing her. 286 00:20:07,890 --> 00:20:11,290 Speaker 1: Ride Out finishes in fating the raft and hurls it 287 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:14,810 Speaker 1: through the jagged hole. He looks around for anyone else 288 00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:17,570 Speaker 1: to help out of the plane. There's an older woman 289 00:20:18,090 --> 00:20:22,330 Speaker 1: seemingly unconscious. He picks her up, but realizes that she's 290 00:20:22,330 --> 00:20:27,330 Speaker 1: dead already. Ride Out puts the body down and decides 291 00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:31,010 Speaker 1: it's time to jump to safety himself. He lands on 292 00:20:31,090 --> 00:20:40,650 Speaker 1: the rubber raft. We'd all like to hope that in 293 00:20:40,690 --> 00:20:45,730 Speaker 1: a sudden crisis, we'd react like Jack Rideout, selfless, strong, 294 00:20:46,090 --> 00:20:50,810 Speaker 1: and above all, self possessed. Ride Out quickly appraised his 295 00:20:50,890 --> 00:20:53,810 Speaker 1: new situation, the need to get out. The fire on 296 00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:57,410 Speaker 1: the right, the hole on the left. That's the fight 297 00:20:57,650 --> 00:21:02,290 Speaker 1: or flight response, working as nature intended, a laser like 298 00:21:02,410 --> 00:21:08,410 Speaker 1: focus on the essential facts, quick and decisive action. But 299 00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:12,850 Speaker 1: more often things go quite differently. Our brains don't work 300 00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:16,410 Speaker 1: as we'd like to hope they would take Warren Hopkins, 301 00:21:16,770 --> 00:21:19,930 Speaker 1: fifty three years old, a meat wholesaler from Illinois, and 302 00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:25,490 Speaker 1: his wife, Caroline. They're also sitting in first class. In 303 00:21:25,530 --> 00:21:29,610 Speaker 1: the moments after the impact, Hopkins reacted just as quickly 304 00:21:29,650 --> 00:21:32,650 Speaker 1: as Jack ride out. He touched his wife on the 305 00:21:32,770 --> 00:21:36,690 Speaker 1: arm and said, let's go. He unbuckled his seat belt, 306 00:21:36,850 --> 00:21:39,170 Speaker 1: picked his way across the debris in the aisle, and 307 00:21:39,250 --> 00:21:43,250 Speaker 1: launched himself through the jagged hole in the fuselage. Only 308 00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:46,770 Speaker 1: when he'd landed did he remember that he'd forgotten to 309 00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:50,730 Speaker 1: check that his wife was with him. She wasn't because 310 00:21:50,770 --> 00:21:56,210 Speaker 1: Caroline had forgotten something else, how to unbuckle a seat belt. 311 00:21:57,570 --> 00:22:02,450 Speaker 1: How strange she found herself, thinking, I must have unbuckled 312 00:22:02,490 --> 00:22:06,530 Speaker 1: airplane seat belts a hundred times, and I can't remember 313 00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:09,570 Speaker 1: how to do it. She later said she thought she 314 00:22:09,770 --> 00:22:11,970 Speaker 1: might have been trying to press a button like you 315 00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:16,690 Speaker 1: would in a car. Eventually, she remembered how airline seat 316 00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:19,930 Speaker 1: buckles unclasp and made her way to the jagged hole. 317 00:22:21,010 --> 00:22:25,770 Speaker 1: She looked down and felt vertiginous. She reached out to 318 00:22:25,810 --> 00:22:30,370 Speaker 1: hold something and gashed her hand. She jumped and landed 319 00:22:30,410 --> 00:22:35,970 Speaker 1: awkwardly on her shoulder. Warren dragged her away. She managed 320 00:22:35,970 --> 00:22:38,090 Speaker 1: to get up and saw that a wound in his 321 00:22:38,290 --> 00:22:41,810 Speaker 1: head was gushing blood over his formal white dress shirt. 322 00:22:43,290 --> 00:22:47,890 Speaker 1: Warren hadn't realized that's part of fight or flight. There's 323 00:22:47,890 --> 00:22:52,490 Speaker 1: no time to feel pain. Caroline slipped off her floral 324 00:22:52,570 --> 00:22:56,530 Speaker 1: patterned underskirt and wrapped it around Warren's head wound. She 325 00:22:56,650 --> 00:22:59,690 Speaker 1: noticed the gash on her hand and wrapped it in 326 00:22:59,730 --> 00:23:05,210 Speaker 1: a handkerchief. Warren and Caroline Hopkins later worked with the 327 00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:09,290 Speaker 1: author John Ziamec to gather recollections from fellow survivors for 328 00:23:09,370 --> 00:23:14,890 Speaker 1: his book Collision on tenor Reef. Their stories of leaps, burns, 329 00:23:14,930 --> 00:23:19,370 Speaker 1: and broken bones, but their stories about other passengers too, 330 00:23:20,170 --> 00:23:23,650 Speaker 1: passengers who weren't making any attempt at all to get 331 00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:27,370 Speaker 1: themselves free. One survivor recalled. 332 00:23:27,290 --> 00:23:30,930 Speaker 2: They just didn't move. I believe at least another one 333 00:23:31,010 --> 00:23:33,890 Speaker 2: hundred could have been saved, but they were sitting there, 334 00:23:34,090 --> 00:23:35,170 Speaker 2: just transfixed. 335 00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:37,290 Speaker 1: Another said it. 336 00:23:37,250 --> 00:23:40,090 Speaker 2: Was like catching a deer in your headlights. 337 00:23:41,810 --> 00:23:46,450 Speaker 1: Eight decades earlier, when the Harvard physiologist Walter Bradford Cannon 338 00:23:46,810 --> 00:23:50,850 Speaker 1: coined the phrase fight or flight, he missed out what 339 00:23:51,010 --> 00:23:55,210 Speaker 1: may be the most important f of all. Most people 340 00:23:55,210 --> 00:23:57,930 Speaker 1: on that plane didn't fight or try to flee like 341 00:23:58,090 --> 00:24:07,610 Speaker 1: Jack ride Out or Warren Hopkins. Instead, they froze. Cautionary 342 00:24:07,650 --> 00:24:21,690 Speaker 1: tales will be back after the break. John Leech is 343 00:24:21,730 --> 00:24:26,330 Speaker 1: a cognitive psychologist who studies human survival. In two thousand 344 00:24:26,370 --> 00:24:31,530 Speaker 1: and four, he published a paper Why People Freeze in 345 00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:38,970 Speaker 1: an emergency. Leach studied survivor accounts of eleven disasters on airplanes, 346 00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:42,650 Speaker 1: oil rigs, and ships. One person who got off a 347 00:24:42,730 --> 00:24:46,010 Speaker 1: sinking ferry recalled how they hadn't been able to understand 348 00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:49,930 Speaker 1: why others weren't trying to help themselves. They just sat 349 00:24:49,970 --> 00:24:53,010 Speaker 1: there being swamped by the water when it came in. 350 00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:59,130 Speaker 1: Leach came to the startling conclusion that freezing wasn't just common, 351 00:24:59,930 --> 00:25:04,050 Speaker 1: it was the most common response to disaster. It happened 352 00:25:04,050 --> 00:25:07,890 Speaker 1: to about seventy five percent of people in the cases 353 00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:12,930 Speaker 1: he studied. The classic response to danger, wrote Leech, should 354 00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:19,210 Speaker 1: be restated as fight, flight or freeze. We hope we'd 355 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:24,370 Speaker 1: react like Jack Rideout. We're more likely to be deer 356 00:25:24,410 --> 00:25:30,650 Speaker 1: in headlights. But what's going on when people freeze? There 357 00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:34,330 Speaker 1: are two possibilities hard to tell apart from the outside, 358 00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:40,250 Speaker 1: but quite different. Physiologists reserve the term freezing for something 359 00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:44,490 Speaker 1: that happens before the fight or flight response. The same 360 00:25:44,650 --> 00:25:47,730 Speaker 1: bodily changes are going on the surge of adrenaline for 361 00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:52,730 Speaker 1: thumping heart. We're primed for action, but not acting yet. 362 00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:56,850 Speaker 1: It's as if the body has slammed on both the 363 00:25:56,930 --> 00:26:01,170 Speaker 1: accelerator and the break at the same time. In the 364 00:26:01,210 --> 00:26:06,050 Speaker 1: animal world, this can make perfect sense. You've seen a predator, 365 00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:09,850 Speaker 1: you're not sure if the predator has seen you. You 366 00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:14,970 Speaker 1: stay very, very still and hope the predator goes away. 367 00:26:16,050 --> 00:26:18,370 Speaker 1: If it comes for you, the break comes off and 368 00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:25,810 Speaker 1: you fight or you flee. The other freezing scenario happens 369 00:26:26,050 --> 00:26:30,610 Speaker 1: after fight or flight are no longer options. You're trapped. 370 00:26:31,210 --> 00:26:35,450 Speaker 1: The predator has got you. In this situation, you'll sometimes 371 00:26:35,490 --> 00:26:41,170 Speaker 1: see animals stop struggling and play dead. This too has 372 00:26:41,250 --> 00:26:45,490 Speaker 1: evolutionary logic. Predators don't want to eat meat that might 373 00:26:45,530 --> 00:26:48,690 Speaker 1: have been dead for a while. It could poison them. 374 00:26:48,730 --> 00:26:53,010 Speaker 1: Play dead and they might lose interest. It's a last 375 00:26:53,370 --> 00:26:59,410 Speaker 1: desperate roll of the dice. Physiologists call this state tonic immobility, 376 00:27:00,410 --> 00:27:04,650 Speaker 1: and it seems to happen to humans too. Were some 377 00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:10,370 Speaker 1: PanAm passengers experiencing tonic immobility. We can't ask the ones 378 00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:15,010 Speaker 1: who died, but it seems likely. One survivor recalls hearing 379 00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:18,690 Speaker 1: an elderly woman turn to her husband and say, I 380 00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:23,210 Speaker 1: think this is it. The same words as Jack ride out, 381 00:27:23,490 --> 00:27:27,330 Speaker 1: but a different meaning. The task of getting out is 382 00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:33,570 Speaker 1: realistically beyond us. Perhaps it was, but we can ask 383 00:27:33,650 --> 00:27:37,210 Speaker 1: the passengers who froze initially before the breaks came off 384 00:27:37,450 --> 00:27:42,610 Speaker 1: and fight or flight kicked in. Remember Jean Marshall Brown, 385 00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:43,810 Speaker 1: this is. 386 00:27:43,810 --> 00:27:46,690 Speaker 2: The way it feels to die in an airplane crash. 387 00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:50,730 Speaker 1: She found herself thinking before she sat and watched the 388 00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:56,010 Speaker 1: cabin fill with smoke around her, and then another thought 389 00:27:56,130 --> 00:27:57,370 Speaker 1: popped into Jean's head. 390 00:27:57,890 --> 00:27:58,850 Speaker 2: We can get out of here. 391 00:28:00,370 --> 00:28:04,250 Speaker 1: That thought unfroze her. Jean turned to the couple sitting 392 00:28:04,290 --> 00:28:07,810 Speaker 1: next to her, who were also deer in headlights. Unfasten 393 00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:10,290 Speaker 1: your seatbelts, she told them, We've got to get out. 394 00:28:10,930 --> 00:28:13,890 Speaker 1: They clambered out of the broken fuselage and onto the wing. 395 00:28:16,210 --> 00:28:19,170 Speaker 1: We can't know for sure how long Jeane was frozen, 396 00:28:19,370 --> 00:28:22,410 Speaker 1: but she thinks they were the last ones out. If 397 00:28:22,410 --> 00:28:25,490 Speaker 1: she had stayed frozen for another few seconds, the fire 398 00:28:25,530 --> 00:28:29,250 Speaker 1: would have been too intense to survive. It already was 399 00:28:29,330 --> 00:28:32,050 Speaker 1: for the couple she had roused. They jumped from the 400 00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:37,650 Speaker 1: wing but died from their burns. Jeane spent two months 401 00:28:37,690 --> 00:28:44,570 Speaker 1: in hospital and lived. What can snap you out of 402 00:28:44,570 --> 00:28:49,170 Speaker 1: a frieze? Jean Marshall Brown's story suggests there are two things, 403 00:28:50,050 --> 00:28:53,570 Speaker 1: a thought popping into your head or someone else showing 404 00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:57,970 Speaker 1: you the way. Jean's story was mirrored elsewhere on the airplane. 405 00:28:58,810 --> 00:29:02,770 Speaker 1: David Alexander was twenty nine years old, an amateur photographer. 406 00:29:03,570 --> 00:29:06,930 Speaker 1: He later wrote a book about his experience called Never 407 00:29:07,050 --> 00:29:11,130 Speaker 1: Wait for the Fire Truck. Just like Jeane, David Alexander 408 00:29:11,130 --> 00:29:15,010 Speaker 1: remembers the first thought to cross his mind, I Am 409 00:29:15,250 --> 00:29:20,730 Speaker 1: going to die. Then along came another thought, No, I'm not. 410 00:29:21,770 --> 00:29:25,650 Speaker 1: Alexander doesn't remember what he did next. Not forming memories 411 00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:28,890 Speaker 1: is another common feature of the fight or flight response, 412 00:29:29,810 --> 00:29:32,290 Speaker 1: but a couple sitting near him later told him what 413 00:29:32,370 --> 00:29:35,930 Speaker 1: he did and how it made them realize what they 414 00:29:36,130 --> 00:29:39,650 Speaker 1: too had to do. They saw him climb up onto 415 00:29:39,690 --> 00:29:42,170 Speaker 1: the back of his seat and clamber his way out 416 00:29:42,210 --> 00:29:45,010 Speaker 1: of a hole in the ceiling. They got up from 417 00:29:45,010 --> 00:29:48,970 Speaker 1: their seats and followed his route out of the plane. 418 00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:52,570 Speaker 1: The psychologist John Leech says that when people freeze in 419 00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:57,250 Speaker 1: an emergency, it's because their memory contains no appropriate response 420 00:29:57,290 --> 00:30:00,970 Speaker 1: for their brain to latch onto, and as stress hormones 421 00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:04,770 Speaker 1: flood their brains, they can't come up with one. Their 422 00:30:04,810 --> 00:30:09,770 Speaker 1: thinking is sluggish, their reasoning impaired. If you know there's 423 00:30:09,810 --> 00:30:13,890 Speaker 1: a particular kind of emergency you might encounter, you can 424 00:30:14,010 --> 00:30:17,370 Speaker 1: train for it. Do drills again and again until the 425 00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:21,650 Speaker 1: right response pops straight into your brain. That makes sense. 426 00:30:21,730 --> 00:30:25,530 Speaker 1: For soldiers or pilots see a fire on the wing, 427 00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:28,250 Speaker 1: reach above you for the levers that cut off the 428 00:30:28,290 --> 00:30:31,810 Speaker 1: fuel to the engine, and most of us aren't likely 429 00:30:31,850 --> 00:30:34,770 Speaker 1: ever to be in an airplane crash or a sinking ferry. 430 00:30:35,370 --> 00:30:39,850 Speaker 1: Training again and again for specific emergencies isn't a wise 431 00:30:39,930 --> 00:30:44,010 Speaker 1: use of our time. So what can we do to 432 00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:48,810 Speaker 1: reduce the likelihood that we freeze if disaster strikes. The 433 00:30:48,850 --> 00:30:54,090 Speaker 1: best advice is boringly predictable. Don't ignore the in flight 434 00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:59,090 Speaker 1: safety briefing. But the experience of Jean Marshall Brown and 435 00:30:59,250 --> 00:31:03,090 Speaker 1: David Alexander tells us why we should pay attention, even 436 00:31:03,130 --> 00:31:06,690 Speaker 1: if we've heard it a hundred times before. In a 437 00:31:06,690 --> 00:31:10,290 Speaker 1: sudden disaster, You can't predict which thoughts will flash into 438 00:31:10,290 --> 00:31:14,250 Speaker 1: your mind. I'm going to die, or we can get 439 00:31:14,290 --> 00:31:18,050 Speaker 1: out of here. If you've recently said to yourself, my 440 00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:22,650 Speaker 1: nearest emergency exit is three rows behind, maybe that thought 441 00:31:22,850 --> 00:31:25,850 Speaker 1: will pop into your head. It might be enough to 442 00:31:25,850 --> 00:31:36,130 Speaker 1: save you. Years after the crash, Jack ride Out talked 443 00:31:36,130 --> 00:31:39,370 Speaker 1: to a journalist at the Los Angeles Times. He was, 444 00:31:39,490 --> 00:31:44,770 Speaker 1: of course haunted by flashbacks, but the most disturbing memory 445 00:31:45,690 --> 00:31:49,170 Speaker 1: not when he exclaimed, this is it. Not the flight 446 00:31:49,210 --> 00:31:52,330 Speaker 1: attendant being killed by shrapnel while trying to inflate the 447 00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:56,250 Speaker 1: rubber raft, not shoving his girlfriend through the jagged hole 448 00:31:56,290 --> 00:32:00,330 Speaker 1: in the fuselage. What kept coming back to him, said 449 00:32:00,410 --> 00:32:06,090 Speaker 1: ride Out, was seeing all those people, not harmed, but 450 00:32:06,210 --> 00:32:12,770 Speaker 1: not doing anything, just looking calmly ahead. Hundreds of them. 451 00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:19,490 Speaker 1: He thought they could all have got out. Hundreds an exaggeration, surely, 452 00:32:20,490 --> 00:32:25,050 Speaker 1: but perhaps not by much. Investigators later tried to piece 453 00:32:25,090 --> 00:32:28,290 Speaker 1: together how many people had died in the collision and 454 00:32:28,410 --> 00:32:31,450 Speaker 1: how many survived the impact but died in the fire. 455 00:32:32,290 --> 00:32:34,970 Speaker 1: They did this by seeing if the bodies had soot 456 00:32:35,050 --> 00:32:38,810 Speaker 1: in the trichea, that would indicate they'd still been breathing 457 00:32:38,850 --> 00:32:42,650 Speaker 1: as smoke filled the cabin. Almost half the bodies were 458 00:32:42,650 --> 00:32:46,530 Speaker 1: too badly burned to tell either way of the others. 459 00:32:46,930 --> 00:32:51,050 Speaker 1: They found sixty without soot. They had been killed before 460 00:32:51,130 --> 00:32:54,690 Speaker 1: the fire took hold, but almost twice as many one 461 00:32:54,770 --> 00:32:59,450 Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen did have soot in the trachea. These 462 00:32:59,490 --> 00:33:05,290 Speaker 1: people had survived the crash, then died in the inferno. Some, 463 00:33:05,410 --> 00:33:08,970 Speaker 1: no doubt, had been knocked unconscious or injured too badly 464 00:33:09,170 --> 00:33:15,570 Speaker 1: to move, but others it seemed simply froze until they burned. 465 00:33:20,010 --> 00:33:24,250 Speaker 1: First Officer Robert Bragg falls thirty eight feet and rolls 466 00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:27,690 Speaker 1: on the grass. He's broken an ankle, but he doesn't 467 00:33:27,730 --> 00:33:32,210 Speaker 1: notice that. Captain Victor Grubbs tumbles through the floor into 468 00:33:32,210 --> 00:33:35,530 Speaker 1: the main first class seating area, then falls through that 469 00:33:35,610 --> 00:33:39,530 Speaker 1: floor too, into the cargo hold. He sees a hole 470 00:33:40,050 --> 00:33:42,930 Speaker 1: ripped in the side of the hold and wriggles towards it. 471 00:33:43,450 --> 00:33:48,130 Speaker 1: He drops onto the tarmac and lies there, burned and bleeding. 472 00:33:49,490 --> 00:33:52,770 Speaker 1: Someone comes towards him. It's one of the flight attendants. 473 00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:58,290 Speaker 1: He looks at her, whatever done to these people? She 474 00:33:58,450 --> 00:33:59,930 Speaker 1: slips a hand under. 475 00:33:59,730 --> 00:34:03,410 Speaker 2: His arm kraw kept him Krahl. 476 00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:09,010 Speaker 1: Grubs drags himself away from the fiery wreckage. He finds 477 00:34:09,210 --> 00:34:14,570 Speaker 1: Robert Bragg. You get to their feet. A passenger approaches them. 478 00:34:14,930 --> 00:34:19,210 Speaker 1: It's Warren Hopkins, wearing one shoe, a blood soaked white 479 00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:23,570 Speaker 1: dress shirt, and his wife's floral patterned underskirt wrapped around 480 00:34:23,610 --> 00:34:24,210 Speaker 1: his head. 481 00:34:24,810 --> 00:34:26,090 Speaker 3: What the hell happened? 482 00:34:27,010 --> 00:34:31,290 Speaker 2: The crazy bastard did it? The klam took off. 483 00:34:32,010 --> 00:34:34,090 Speaker 1: He was supposed to be holding, and. 484 00:34:33,930 --> 00:34:34,770 Speaker 2: He took off. 485 00:34:37,410 --> 00:34:42,290 Speaker 1: They watch as fire and explosions consume what's left at 486 00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:46,370 Speaker 1: the pan Am seven four seven. It makes no sense, 487 00:34:47,410 --> 00:34:52,090 Speaker 1: but they got out by now. For anyone else who 488 00:34:52,090 --> 00:35:10,330 Speaker 1: could have, it's too late. An important source for this 489 00:35:10,450 --> 00:35:14,330 Speaker 1: episode was Collision on tenna reef for How and Why 490 00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:18,610 Speaker 1: of the World's worst aviation disaster by John Ziamec and 491 00:35:18,730 --> 00:35:22,130 Speaker 1: Caroline Hopkins. For a full list of our sources, see 492 00:35:22,170 --> 00:35:32,610 Speaker 1: the show notes at Timharford dot com. Cautionary Tales is 493 00:35:32,650 --> 00:35:36,130 Speaker 1: written by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright. It's produced 494 00:35:36,130 --> 00:35:39,770 Speaker 1: by Alice Fines with support from Marilyn Rust. The sound 495 00:35:39,770 --> 00:35:42,850 Speaker 1: design and original music is the work of Pascal Wise. 496 00:35:43,690 --> 00:35:47,530 Speaker 1: Sarah Nix edited the scripts. It features the voice talents 497 00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:51,850 Speaker 1: of Ben Crowe, Melany Gushridge, Stella Harford, Jammas Saunders and 498 00:35:51,930 --> 00:35:55,810 Speaker 1: rufus Wright. The show also wouldn't have been possible without 499 00:35:55,810 --> 00:36:00,770 Speaker 1: the work of Jacob Weisberg, Ryan Dilly, Greta Cohne, Beteal Millard, 500 00:36:01,050 --> 00:36:06,570 Speaker 1: John Schnaz, Eric's handler, Carrie Brody, and Christina Sullivan. Cautionary 501 00:36:06,610 --> 00:36:10,810 Speaker 1: Tales is a production of Pushkin Indus. It's recorded at 502 00:36:10,850 --> 00:36:14,690 Speaker 1: Wardour Studios in London by Tom Berry. If you like 503 00:36:14,810 --> 00:36:19,530 Speaker 1: the show, please remember to share, rate and review, tell 504 00:36:19,570 --> 00:36:21,810 Speaker 1: your friends and if you want to hear the show 505 00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:25,290 Speaker 1: ad free, sign up for Pushkin Plus on the show 506 00:36:25,410 --> 00:36:29,890 Speaker 1: page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm, slash 507 00:36:30,210 --> 00:36:40,090 Speaker 1: plus