WEBVTT - Ben Silverman 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.120 I made that show for Amazon in its early days, 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:09.600 and it was so Janet was so cuckoo about the 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:16.440 sex and was so aggressive about the kind of craziness 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:23.040 of that world and the strange behavior that he saw 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.560 in the paris of that moment, and I got seduced 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.920 by it, and I was like, Okay, Yeah, maybe there's 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.479 a large audience for this. The initial reaction of the 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:39.919 Amazon Prime mom who watched that show was I'm not 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:43.120 only I mean that show could have taken Amazon down. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.479 It was that bad choice and that wrong of an 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:57.320 environment to put that show him. My name is Ben Silverman, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.520 and I am a media entrepreneur and the executive producer 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.720 of the Office. 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.640 Well well, well if it isn't another episode of Off 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:15.200 the Beat with yours truly, your host, Brian Baumgartner today, Yep, 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.120 there you go. I'm talking to the big man, the 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.759 giant donkey, the creator, the guy who started it all. 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.760 Well he started for me at least, Ben Silverman is 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.800 here on the program now. Ben. He may not be 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.920 on your television screen all that often, but he is 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:38.960 almost always behind it in some way, lurking in the corner. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.600 The fact that he created the Office is just the tip. 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.600 That's what she said, just the tip of what he 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.200 has accomplished in the entertainment industry. He is the co 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:53.920 CEO of Propagate Content, the production company behind this very 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.320 podcast and many other shows. He was also the chairman 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:03.120 of NBC Entertainment. He founded production companies including revelly An Electus, 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.720 and he has created and executive produced many many shows 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.200 that you know and love, The Office, The Biggest Loser, Ugly, 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:14.040 Betty Jane, The Virgin, The Tutors, Charmed, Untold, many many more. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.639 The last time I talked to him, at least on tape, 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:18.800 was a few years ago when I was putting together 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.880 my first podcast and oral history of the Office. If 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.079 you haven't listened to that, go listen to it. It's 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:31.919 almost an audio reunion of everyone who worked on the Office. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.079 Or you can scroll all the way back on this 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.720 podcast to March of twenty twenty one, when I released 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:43.080 my extended conversation with Ben about the Office. Wow, I 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.760 cannot believe I've been doing this that long. I guess 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:51.120 it's true what they say, time flies when you're talking 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:55.200 to incredible people every week. Anyway, this time I wanted 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.600 to talk with Ben about the other parts of his life, 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.880 his career, his empire. He's a brilliant creative mind, a 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:08.280 super smart businessman, and well he's just a really interesting dude. 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.840 You're gonna see what I mean pretty quickly, Ladies and gentlemen, 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:19.160 always the smartest guy in the room, Ben Silverman. 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:29.600 Bubble and squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeakna bubble 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.400 and squeak. I could get every mole lift over from 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:34.639 the night before. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:51.480 Kaneti wah, Ella, Kaneti wah. You're in Japan. I understand. 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.880 I am in Japan as we speak. It's it's early 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.360 morning here. But I'm thrilled to be talking to you, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:03:59.560 my California brother. 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.040 Uh, that's what you say, right, I've never been to Japan. 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.240 You. Luckily, we have insulted everyone in the world through 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.120 our collaboration and television show, and I am doing it 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:19.920 incredibly efficiently as I wander these streets getting grinned at 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:24.200 all day long. But I'm I am very I can 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:33.160 mons moss and there's many great Japanese expressions. Yes, kanichiwa 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.160 is hello, but they don't use that as much as 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:36.919 you'd expect. 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.200 Is that like Domo Arigato do. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.640 That's a good well Aragatos, thank you, thank you more. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.120 And I have absolutely been in a couple of bowing 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.880 battles like I always go for the last bow and 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.440 you know, you could get five six, seven bows going, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.920 just like reled it in our show as as much 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:07.599 scot and it is incredibly amusing to me as it's 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.200 playing out, and I feel like I'm in some kind 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:15.160 of scripted you know, comedy but right, but my fellow 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:20.200 Bauer is not quite And now, because you know, I've 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.680 been doing this for a week, initially in business meetings 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.360 where you know, business cards are presented to me like 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.360 their their you know, gold, I mean, I'm just like, oh, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.240 can you enter your number in my phone? And it's 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:37.719 like almost an insult. And then secondarily, I am loving 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.000 the language like I have been trying to learn it, 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:45.400 and it's not that hard to pronounce. It's it's impossible 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.359 to read because we just don't know the characters right. 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:54.800 Now, obviously, you are the international adapter slash creator of 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.920 foreign content for America. Are you watching television to find 0:05:58.960 --> 0:05:59.840 the next great hit? 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:04.760 I have been watching a ton of television and trying 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:11.200 to actually land some ip, but I am failing mercilessly. Here, 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.119 there's a reason the Korean content has exported so well 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.360 because they're down to work with us, and they're excited 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.599 to export their content and they are thrilled to have partners. 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.320 Not so much here. There's not a lot of there's 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:30.760 not a lot of yes, I would love to watch 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.360 this do well. Outside of my borders, they're much there's 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.240 much more focus on like it's actually beautiful. I mean, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:41.280 they're just there's focus on doing something the best, but 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:47.280 not necessarily the most efficiently or at scale or to 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:51.200 be monetized in the same way. So it's just a 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.000 different culture in terms of its desire to export. 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.440 Yeah, you know that actually occurs to me I and 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.960 then we're going to talk more about you. But you know, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.919 you see like on YouTube or whatever, you do see 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:09.440 like some Korean television even not just remade, but like content. 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:11.800 You don't see a lot of Jeopardy. Is there a 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.640 lot of like scripted original content in Japan. 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.440 It's it's not nearly the level of the Korean content 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:25.160 in terms of the scripted content. On the nonscripted side, 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.160 it's there's so much of it, and there's a lot 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.800 of it in categories that would work, but they're not 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.880 as formated like food travel. You know, they do a 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.920 lot of the kind of genres that we do in 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:42.600 American television, but they're so specifically Japanese. There's not as 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.000 much of a format to it to adapt, and there's 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.880 so much crazy popping up all over the screens that 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.760 you know, the entire country, you know, gives you a 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.880 little PTSD as you navigate through it. If you remember 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.440 years ago, there was a television show and half the 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.920 audience fainted watching it in Japan because of the amount 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.000 of stuff going on screen. And you feel like that 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.800 walking through Tokyo. You feel like that in the subway, 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.600 and you feel like that watching the shows. There's like 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.360 thousands of words popping up all over the screen in 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.600 different colors, and then there's always like somebody like entering 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.600 the screen laughing, and then there's somebody in costume, and 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:29.360 you know, it's highly original and highly confusing and therefore 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.760 not quite as very specific, yeah, not quite as effective. 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.439 The Wall Came From Here, which was a adapt betame show, 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.360 and there's a couple other things like that. But it's 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.320 not England, it's not Korea, it's not you know a 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.120 lot of the other markets that are so strong exactly. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.640 Yeah, Well, enough about Japan. I want to talk. I 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.040 want to go back with you. I know you were 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.719 born in Massachusetts, but really grew up in Manhattan an 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:04.200 artistic family. Your dad, Stanley, who I know and love 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:10.239 so well, a composer, your mom an actor and network executive. 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:15.640 So was the arts? Was television? Was entertainment? Was it 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.200 focused on in your household growing up? Or was that 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.640 their job? And you were just you know, running the 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:23.640 streets of Manhattan. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.319 The arts were an integral part of my upbringing. You know, 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.360 it was no question that through us Moses, I was 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:37.040 exposed to some of the great minds of the latter 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.440 half of the twentieth century and the artistic community. My 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:44.319 father collaborated with everyone from Leonard Bernstein to Anthony Burgess 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.760 to Arthur Miller. And I ran around the halls of 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:53.520 Lincoln Center and various you know, chamber music calls and 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.560 exposure to music. And my mom was actually a theater 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.040 producer and collaborator of my dad's early on before they 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.719 divorced at age four. My being aged four because my 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.160 mom realized she was gay, and so that can end 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:13.960 a marriage quickly and they talked about it all the time. 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:19.360 And then my father's second marriage which also ended. No, 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.000 you know not because they don't still love each other. 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.640 As my dad always says, I'm the great ex husband 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.800 because he's still best friends with both of his ex wives. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.760 But my Stepmam Martha was also a brilliant violinist, so 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.679 I would be exposed to it all and I would 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.880 hear it and Thuusmosis would be connected to everything from 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:47.000 Shakespeare to Brahms, and it absolutely gave me a great foundation. 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.080 But it also made me more ambitious in what was 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:55.040 possible within the arts and creativity because I saw how 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.960 much they struggled financially and how difficult it was to 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:03.760 get their work heard and seen. Only recently has my 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:08.040 dad had his biggest hits hit. In celebration, my father's 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:12.120 new album just came out as he's eighty four years old, 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.480 his first album probably twenty five thirty years and he 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.320 has a collaboration with Sting on it right now, which 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.720 is great, So all of you should download in celebration 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.760 my Stanley Silverman, and so he was like performing above 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.000 a you know, his stuff was happening above a church 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.920 in some weird downtown art space, and you know, I 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.320 was like, wait, wait, this isn't fun. I want this 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.640 to be I want the world to see my stuff, right. 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.559 I mean, you talked about so many of these collaborations. 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:49.920 Were you present with these great minds and artists and 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.760 with your mom in her business. Were you seeing these 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.880 people and knowing who they were? I mean you brought 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:58.160 up Arthur Miller for example. 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.640 Yes, absolutely. One of my dad's collaborations with Arthur was 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.440 up from Paradise, and I would you know, they were divorced. 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.000 So my dad was working. When I saw my dad, 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.240 I was where he was working, because you know, he 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.080 worked at night, you know, he was inside these theaters 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.680 and music halls. And so I walked into a screen 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.400 door at Arthur Miller's house in Connecticut. I hung out 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.120 with Joe Papp, the artistic director and founder of the 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:30.160 Public Theater. I you know, met and played with Michael 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.200 Tilson Thomas arguably the greatest conductor of the modern era. 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.720 So these people were all in around my world. My 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.480 mom collaborated with Tommy toone, you know. So it was 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.720 just how I grew up, you know, it was part 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.040 of my rhythm and I was the ultimate latch key 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.240 kid because of it. You know, I was kind of 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.240 I was raised by the arts, but I was also 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.480 raised by wolves a little bit. You know. I walked 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.079 to school alone at age four in New York City 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:02.480 and had to kind of manage for myself. But it 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.080 is also where I fell in love with television because 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.480 as the ultimate latch key kid, TV was my babysitter. 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.800 Well that makes sense. Do you think that that independence 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.520 that you had early on, do you think that gave 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:16.520 you a toughness? 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:16.880 Like? 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.200 Do you think that gave you an independence? I mean, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.280 do you feel that? Do you acknowledge that? 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.599 I really do, And we obviously were both parents of 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.720 young kids, you and I and I do see the 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.240 absolute shift in how we raise our children. At the 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.720 end of the day, love conquers all. And my parents 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.480 loved me so much and we are so close and 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.640 they are the two smartest people I know. And I 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:50.239 absolutely feel their love, which gives you another form of confidence. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:54.200 And felt their belief in me as a kid and 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.120 then as a young man. But no question, you're walking 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.000 the streets in New York City as a four year old, 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.480 You're pretty comfortable as an eighteen year old. I remember 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:09.079 arriving at arriving at university and these and the kids 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.880 from the suburbs were all getting hammered and you know, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.200 doing kegstands, and I was like, you idiots where you know, 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.560 I'm going to the city, you know, like you know, 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.640 its just my kind of attitude and energy around. It 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.440 absolutely was grounded in my self reliance, you know. So 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.720 my mom would leave for the weekend so she could 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.880 live her life. She knew I didn't really want to 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.200 deal with that fact until later on when I could 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.960 understand it and synthesize it. And I would be handed 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:42.240 between ten and twenty dollars for the weekend and basically 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.280 was left alone in my apartment. And as I walked 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.480 to school, she was very good and knew the ways 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.800 to keep me safe. Though. When I walked to school 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:57.520 as a kid, you know, basically a post toddler, she 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.200 would just say, Okay, if you feel scared at all, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.440 look for a doorman. And if you don't find a doorman, 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:09.040 look for a mother with a stroller or children. And 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.440 if you don't find a doorman or a mother with 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.520 a stroller or children, look for a man in a 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.400 suit and those were like my guardrails. But that's good. 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.440 That's good advice, I guess. So. 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.080 I mean, it's so impossible to believe. I don't know 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:30.600 if we've talked about this or not, but I look, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.320 I love my life here in California, and I love 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.280 New York. I love I love it. I love to 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.480 visit and go there in short spurts. But I have 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.040 thought often and talked about I don't know if I 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.080 could get a show there for a year or something 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:53.360 like before the kid get too old, that going there 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.720 and having them have that experience of being on the 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.840 streets of New York exactly what you're talking about now. 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.240 I don't know about letting them walk to school alone 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:07.000 or whatever, but just that feeling of being around so 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.240 many people and having to kind of learn your way, 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.320 and there's a certain toughness that it has to bring 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.560 to you as a child to be navigating that city. 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.760 So I had two bikes stolen and I got my 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:23.160 jaw broken. Yeah, those are the downsides, but no question, 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.800 and one big thing I always felt about New York 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.400 is it's a city that is integrated in how everyone 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.560 has to utilize the city in the same way. It's 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.520 absolutely changed and the world has changed. You would never 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.680 let your kid walk to school alone at age four 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:43.600 because somehow the manifestation of bad people is just like accelerated. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.120 But I always felt when about California and I love 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.280 it is if you have any means, or even just 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:54.640 a car, you kind of move in your car between 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.320 place to place, never touching the society at large. In 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.000 New York, we all were taking the same subway, we're 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.520 all taking the same bus, we're all walking the same streets. 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:10.119 We were all integrated, whether whatever class or you place 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.960 you came from, which is very different than California, where 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.800 you're kind of being shuttled around in your car cocoon 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:22.680 between one bastion of your own community to another place 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.760 in your own community and not touching the community at large, 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.679 whereas in New York, you're literally on the subway together, 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.639 you're in the park together, you're on the streets together, 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.800 you're on the bus together, and so you're exposed and 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.800 through that exposure, you learn and you also tolerate each 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.800 other in a different way because you're kind of living 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.440 the same life, even if at the end of the 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.399 day you go to the penthouse or the twelfth floor, 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:54.320 and somebody else is going to the basement. The experience 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:55.959 the rest of the day is shared. 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:01.600 Yeah, that's very that's very smart. I see you studied 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.800 history at TOUGHS. So what was it about history or 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.800 what did you think? What direction did you feel like 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:09.800 your life was going to go. 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.920 I always wanted to be in showbiz, but I also 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:20.159 had considered being in the Foreign service and working in 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.440 international relations, and so I was looking at a degree 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.480 that could give me a basis for anything. And I 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:32.520 truly believe in the liberal arts education in a profound way, 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.240 and felt that the liberal arts education is the best 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:42.800 foundation to understand the stories that took place in reality, 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.520 which is history, and to understand the stories that took 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:51.680 place in creativity through like English classes and art history 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:56.359 and other modes of expression. Were really important to me, 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.800 and with advice from my family to to study that 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:05.320 way and not pursue an economics degree or a business degree, 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.440 and it sets you up for anything you wanted to do. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.960 I happened to be fascinated with history. I played with 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.800 toy soldiers growing up. I had two uncles who served 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.919 in World War Two, Lester and Davy. I had a 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:23.080 lot of connectivity in my world to what came before me, 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.960 and it absolutely was something that interested me. It's partially 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.480 you know, I created the Tutors about Henry the Eighth, 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.159 which was a big hit on Showtime and around the 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:39.119 world and still airs and other shows like that, including 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.520 Marco Polo because of my connectivity to history. So it 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:48.400 absolutely helped inform my creative process. But it truly gave 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.280 me a great foundation for anything and would work well 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.240 if I chose a different career also, but you know, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.119 from a very young age, I knew I wanted to 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.200 go into show business. 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.560 Ye, So that brings me to my next question. But 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.800 I do have to say, you know, when I go 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.720 now and I'm talking to young actors or at universities 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.440 or whatever, that is one of the major pieces of 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.000 advices that I give to young actors, which is have 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:20.040 a broad base of education. If you just are studying 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.560 acting or theater, you don't have that sort of world 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.080 perspective that exactly what you said I feel like a 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.480 liberal arts college brings. And truly it's one of the 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:34.520 reasons that I made the decision, you know, to not 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.240 go to a school like Juilliard or Carnegie Mellon or 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.920 with that, with all respect to those schools, I wanted. 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.960 I wanted that liberal arts experience. So I think that's 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.560 really smart for you. Like when were you like this 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.000 is what I'm going to do. Because you are a 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.920 creative person, you came from a creative family. But when 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.560 was the decision for you made that you wanted to 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.119 work in entertainment. You wanted to produce, and you and 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.520 you wanted to lead and create, but from a non 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.240 creative side, not that you're not creative, but that you 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:09.840 wanted to manage and run television. 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.040 Well, I think there was a couple of touch points 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.760 that really impacted me. One is going to the movies 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.960 and just being in the movies, and specifically as a 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.600 young kid going to the Regency, which was an old 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.520 cinema in New York City on Broadway that played old movies, 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.320 and I fell in love with Fred Astaire as a 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.440 young kid and would dance in the aisles as Fred 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.120 would dance on screen. And so I had this kind 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.200 of connectivity as a very young boy, you know, in 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.800 my four or five six year old kind of brain space. 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:50.600 Then subsequently watching NBC in the eighties and what Brandon 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.879 Tartakoff unleashed with Saint Elsewhere and Hill Street Blues and 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.600 The Cosby Show and very specifically Cheers, my favorite show 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.160 of all time at that moment in time, and seeing 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.800 all of that and wanting to kind of understand it. 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:05.760 And then there was an article that came out in 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.800 New York Magazine about Brandon Tartakoff, and I read that 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.960 article and I really got excited about who he was 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.520 and what he did and how he got there. I 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:18.800 knew he went to Yale, I knew he played baseball, 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.960 I knew how he started and arrived there, and I 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:27.960 thought that was an unbelievably interesting guy and job and trajectory. 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.760 And then separately from that, I started to kind of 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.439 try and learn on my own. Like I was very 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.920 good at math, and so my sixth grade at Rhode 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:41.480 of Sholham Day School in New York City, I didn't 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.760 have to go to the regular math class. I was 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.440 kind of put in my own math class with one 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:50.600 other kid, David Kart, And I remember I chose to 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:56.159 write and work on statistics and understand ratings. So in 0:22:56.200 --> 0:23:00.760 the sixth grade I was doing a project on rats 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:06.560 instead of going to regular math class. And so I 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:08.800 kind of knew, you know, and I was trying to 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.960 figure out ways to know. But reading about Brandon showed me, oh, 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.960 there's a job like that. Watching television showed me how 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:18.840 much I loved it, and going to the cinema and 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:21.359 you know, showed me how much I loved it. And 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.679 then seeing my family in the arts, but struggle in 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.679 the arts also made me want to be more of 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:33.720 a mogul than a kind of artiste. And okay, okay, 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:36.560 and I really wanted my stuff seen. I was like, 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.840 whatever I do, I wanted to be watched and consumed. 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.800 Yeah that makes sense. I mean the crazy thing. And 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:47.920 we've talked about this before, by the way, if you 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:49.919 if you haven't noticed so far, this is how you 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.520 can never win an argument with Ben Silverman. He remembers 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:56.080 every name. I mean, the names that you're pulling out 0:23:56.160 --> 0:24:01.000 from sixth grade. I mean, it's unbelievable. But you as 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:03.439 a child, which is what I wanted to touch on it, 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:07.080 just at least briefly, how crazy it is you wanted 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:11.480 to be the chairman of NBC. Like it's such a 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:16.840 specific dream and such an ah Like I don't know. 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.080 I just find it so fascinating that every step in 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:25.120 your life, which of course eventually you got there spoiler 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:29.359 alert like that that happened at such a young age, 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:31.879 and you were able to see the impact that you 0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:36.560 could have, not necessarily, as you said, being a creative 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:38.440 like your parents, who you saw struggle. 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:43.320 Yes, and you have to manifest. You have to manifest, 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:46.520 and you have to keep marching towards whatever it is 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.960 you want to accomplish, and you have to really dare 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.360 to dream. You know, my mom would always say, you're 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.960 the boy. If I locked you in a closet by accident, 0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:58.159 you would have come out telling me how great the 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:04.760 dark was. So you need to find your path and 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:09.640 your enthusiasm and your happiness and whatever is presented to you, 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:11.680 because it's everything is. 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:12.440 So damn hard. 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:15.600 You better enjoy the ride or be able to kind 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:18.560 of find your way to it. One thing, even further, 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:20.560 that was crazy. When I got to college at Toughs, 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:24.000