1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: I made that show for Amazon in its early days, 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: and it was so Janet was so cuckoo about the 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: sex and was so aggressive about the kind of craziness 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: of that world and the strange behavior that he saw 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: in the paris of that moment, and I got seduced 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: by it, and I was like, Okay, Yeah, maybe there's 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: a large audience for this. The initial reaction of the 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: Amazon Prime mom who watched that show was I'm not 9 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: only I mean that show could have taken Amazon down. 10 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: It was that bad choice and that wrong of an 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: environment to put that show him. My name is Ben Silverman, 12 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: and I am a media entrepreneur and the executive producer 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: of the Office. 14 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: Well well, well if it isn't another episode of Off 15 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: the Beat with yours truly, your host, Brian Baumgartner today, Yep, 16 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: there you go. I'm talking to the big man, the 17 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 2: giant donkey, the creator, the guy who started it all. 18 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: Well he started for me at least, Ben Silverman is 19 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: here on the program now. Ben. He may not be 20 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: on your television screen all that often, but he is 21 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 2: almost always behind it in some way, lurking in the corner. 22 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: The fact that he created the Office is just the tip. 23 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: That's what she said, just the tip of what he 24 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: has accomplished in the entertainment industry. He is the co 25 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: CEO of Propagate Content, the production company behind this very 26 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: podcast and many other shows. He was also the chairman 27 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: of NBC Entertainment. He founded production companies including revelly An Electus, 28 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: and he has created and executive produced many many shows 29 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: that you know and love, The Office, The Biggest Loser, Ugly, 30 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: Betty Jane, The Virgin, The Tutors, Charmed, Untold, many many more. 31 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: The last time I talked to him, at least on tape, 32 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: was a few years ago when I was putting together 33 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: my first podcast and oral history of the Office. If 34 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 2: you haven't listened to that, go listen to it. It's 35 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: almost an audio reunion of everyone who worked on the Office. 36 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: Or you can scroll all the way back on this 37 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: podcast to March of twenty twenty one, when I released 38 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 2: my extended conversation with Ben about the Office. Wow, I 39 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: cannot believe I've been doing this that long. I guess 40 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: it's true what they say, time flies when you're talking 41 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: to incredible people every week. Anyway, this time I wanted 42 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: to talk with Ben about the other parts of his life, 43 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: his career, his empire. He's a brilliant creative mind, a 44 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: super smart businessman, and well he's just a really interesting dude. 45 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: You're gonna see what I mean pretty quickly, Ladies and gentlemen, 46 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: always the smartest guy in the room, Ben Silverman. 47 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: Bubble and squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeakna bubble 48 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: and squeak. I could get every mole lift over from 49 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: the night before. 50 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: Kaneti wah, Ella, Kaneti wah. You're in Japan. I understand. 51 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: I am in Japan as we speak. It's it's early 52 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: morning here. But I'm thrilled to be talking to you, 53 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: my California brother. 54 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: Uh, that's what you say, right, I've never been to Japan. 55 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: You. Luckily, we have insulted everyone in the world through 56 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: our collaboration and television show, and I am doing it 57 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: incredibly efficiently as I wander these streets getting grinned at 58 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: all day long. But I'm I am very I can 59 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: mons moss and there's many great Japanese expressions. Yes, kanichiwa 60 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: is hello, but they don't use that as much as 61 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: you'd expect. 62 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: Is that like Domo Arigato do. 63 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: That's a good well Aragatos, thank you, thank you more. 64 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: And I have absolutely been in a couple of bowing 65 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: battles like I always go for the last bow and 66 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, you could get five six, seven bows going, 67 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: just like reled it in our show as as much 68 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: scot and it is incredibly amusing to me as it's 69 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: playing out, and I feel like I'm in some kind 70 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: of scripted you know, comedy but right, but my fellow 71 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: Bauer is not quite And now, because you know, I've 72 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: been doing this for a week, initially in business meetings 73 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: where you know, business cards are presented to me like 74 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: their their you know, gold, I mean, I'm just like, oh, 75 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: can you enter your number in my phone? And it's 76 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: like almost an insult. And then secondarily, I am loving 77 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: the language like I have been trying to learn it, 78 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: and it's not that hard to pronounce. It's it's impossible 79 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: to read because we just don't know the characters right. 80 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: Now, obviously, you are the international adapter slash creator of 81 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: foreign content for America. Are you watching television to find 82 00:05:58,960 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 2: the next great hit? 83 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: I have been watching a ton of television and trying 84 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: to actually land some ip, but I am failing mercilessly. Here, 85 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 1: there's a reason the Korean content has exported so well 86 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: because they're down to work with us, and they're excited 87 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: to export their content and they are thrilled to have partners. 88 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: Not so much here. There's not a lot of there's 89 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: not a lot of yes, I would love to watch 90 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: this do well. Outside of my borders, they're much there's 91 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: much more focus on like it's actually beautiful. I mean, 92 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: they're just there's focus on doing something the best, but 93 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: not necessarily the most efficiently or at scale or to 94 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: be monetized in the same way. So it's just a 95 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: different culture in terms of its desire to export. 96 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that actually occurs to me I and 97 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: then we're going to talk more about you. But you know, 98 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 2: you see like on YouTube or whatever, you do see 99 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: like some Korean television even not just remade, but like content. 100 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: You don't see a lot of Jeopardy. Is there a 101 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: lot of like scripted original content in Japan. 102 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: It's it's not nearly the level of the Korean content 103 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: in terms of the scripted content. On the nonscripted side, 104 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: it's there's so much of it, and there's a lot 105 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: of it in categories that would work, but they're not 106 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: as formated like food travel. You know, they do a 107 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: lot of the kind of genres that we do in 108 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: American television, but they're so specifically Japanese. There's not as 109 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: much of a format to it to adapt, and there's 110 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: so much crazy popping up all over the screens that 111 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, the entire country, you know, gives you a 112 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: little PTSD as you navigate through it. If you remember 113 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: years ago, there was a television show and half the 114 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: audience fainted watching it in Japan because of the amount 115 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: of stuff going on screen. And you feel like that 116 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: walking through Tokyo. You feel like that in the subway, 117 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: and you feel like that watching the shows. There's like 118 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: thousands of words popping up all over the screen in 119 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: different colors, and then there's always like somebody like entering 120 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: the screen laughing, and then there's somebody in costume, and 121 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's highly original and highly confusing and therefore 122 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: not quite as very specific, yeah, not quite as effective. 123 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: The Wall Came From Here, which was a adapt betame show, 124 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: and there's a couple other things like that. But it's 125 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: not England, it's not Korea, it's not you know a 126 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: lot of the other markets that are so strong exactly. 127 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, enough about Japan. I want to talk. I 128 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: want to go back with you. I know you were 129 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 2: born in Massachusetts, but really grew up in Manhattan an 130 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: artistic family. Your dad, Stanley, who I know and love 131 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:10,239 Speaker 2: so well, a composer, your mom an actor and network executive. 132 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: So was the arts? Was television? Was entertainment? Was it 133 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: focused on in your household growing up? Or was that 134 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: their job? And you were just you know, running the 135 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: streets of Manhattan. 136 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: The arts were an integral part of my upbringing. You know, 137 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: it was no question that through us Moses, I was 138 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: exposed to some of the great minds of the latter 139 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: half of the twentieth century and the artistic community. My 140 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: father collaborated with everyone from Leonard Bernstein to Anthony Burgess 141 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: to Arthur Miller. And I ran around the halls of 142 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: Lincoln Center and various you know, chamber music calls and 143 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: exposure to music. And my mom was actually a theater 144 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: producer and collaborator of my dad's early on before they 145 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: divorced at age four. My being aged four because my 146 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: mom realized she was gay, and so that can end 147 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: a marriage quickly and they talked about it all the time. 148 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: And then my father's second marriage which also ended. No, 149 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: you know not because they don't still love each other. 150 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: As my dad always says, I'm the great ex husband 151 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: because he's still best friends with both of his ex wives. 152 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: But my Stepmam Martha was also a brilliant violinist, so 153 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: I would be exposed to it all and I would 154 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: hear it and Thuusmosis would be connected to everything from 155 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: Shakespeare to Brahms, and it absolutely gave me a great foundation. 156 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: But it also made me more ambitious in what was 157 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: possible within the arts and creativity because I saw how 158 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: much they struggled financially and how difficult it was to 159 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: get their work heard and seen. Only recently has my 160 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: dad had his biggest hits hit. In celebration, my father's 161 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: new album just came out as he's eighty four years old, 162 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: his first album probably twenty five thirty years and he 163 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: has a collaboration with Sting on it right now, which 164 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: is great, So all of you should download in celebration 165 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: my Stanley Silverman, and so he was like performing above 166 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: a you know, his stuff was happening above a church 167 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: in some weird downtown art space, and you know, I 168 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: was like, wait, wait, this isn't fun. I want this 169 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: to be I want the world to see my stuff, right. 170 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: I mean, you talked about so many of these collaborations. 171 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: Were you present with these great minds and artists and 172 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: with your mom in her business. Were you seeing these 173 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 2: people and knowing who they were? I mean you brought 174 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: up Arthur Miller for example. 175 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. One of my dad's collaborations with Arthur was 176 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: up from Paradise, and I would you know, they were divorced. 177 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: So my dad was working. When I saw my dad, 178 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: I was where he was working, because you know, he 179 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: worked at night, you know, he was inside these theaters 180 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: and music halls. And so I walked into a screen 181 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: door at Arthur Miller's house in Connecticut. I hung out 182 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: with Joe Papp, the artistic director and founder of the 183 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: Public Theater. I you know, met and played with Michael 184 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: Tilson Thomas arguably the greatest conductor of the modern era. 185 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: So these people were all in around my world. My 186 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: mom collaborated with Tommy toone, you know. So it was 187 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: just how I grew up, you know, it was part 188 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: of my rhythm and I was the ultimate latch key 189 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: kid because of it. You know, I was kind of 190 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: I was raised by the arts, but I was also 191 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: raised by wolves a little bit. You know. I walked 192 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: to school alone at age four in New York City 193 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: and had to kind of manage for myself. But it 194 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: is also where I fell in love with television because 195 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: as the ultimate latch key kid, TV was my babysitter. 196 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: Well that makes sense. Do you think that that independence 197 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: that you had early on, do you think that gave 198 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: you a toughness? 199 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: Like? 200 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 2: Do you think that gave you an independence? I mean, 201 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 2: do you feel that? Do you acknowledge that? 202 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,599 Speaker 1: I really do, And we obviously were both parents of 203 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: young kids, you and I and I do see the 204 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: absolute shift in how we raise our children. At the 205 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: end of the day, love conquers all. And my parents 206 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: loved me so much and we are so close and 207 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: they are the two smartest people I know. And I 208 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,239 Speaker 1: absolutely feel their love, which gives you another form of confidence. 209 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: And felt their belief in me as a kid and 210 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: then as a young man. But no question, you're walking 211 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: the streets in New York City as a four year old, 212 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: You're pretty comfortable as an eighteen year old. I remember 213 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: arriving at arriving at university and these and the kids 214 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: from the suburbs were all getting hammered and you know, 215 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: doing kegstands, and I was like, you idiots where you know, 216 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to the city, you know, like you know, 217 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: its just my kind of attitude and energy around. It 218 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: absolutely was grounded in my self reliance, you know. So 219 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: my mom would leave for the weekend so she could 220 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: live her life. She knew I didn't really want to 221 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: deal with that fact until later on when I could 222 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: understand it and synthesize it. And I would be handed 223 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: between ten and twenty dollars for the weekend and basically 224 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: was left alone in my apartment. And as I walked 225 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: to school, she was very good and knew the ways 226 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: to keep me safe. Though. When I walked to school 227 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: as a kid, you know, basically a post toddler, she 228 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: would just say, Okay, if you feel scared at all, 229 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: look for a doorman. And if you don't find a doorman, 230 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: look for a mother with a stroller or children. And 231 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: if you don't find a doorman or a mother with 232 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: a stroller or children, look for a man in a 233 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: suit and those were like my guardrails. But that's good. 234 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: That's good advice, I guess. So. 235 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: I mean, it's so impossible to believe. I don't know 236 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: if we've talked about this or not, but I look, 237 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: I love my life here in California, and I love 238 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: New York. I love I love it. I love to 239 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: visit and go there in short spurts. But I have 240 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: thought often and talked about I don't know if I 241 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: could get a show there for a year or something 242 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 2: like before the kid get too old, that going there 243 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: and having them have that experience of being on the 244 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: streets of New York exactly what you're talking about now. 245 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: I don't know about letting them walk to school alone 246 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: or whatever, but just that feeling of being around so 247 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: many people and having to kind of learn your way, 248 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: and there's a certain toughness that it has to bring 249 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: to you as a child to be navigating that city. 250 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: So I had two bikes stolen and I got my 251 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: jaw broken. Yeah, those are the downsides, but no question, 252 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: and one big thing I always felt about New York 253 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: is it's a city that is integrated in how everyone 254 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: has to utilize the city in the same way. It's 255 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: absolutely changed and the world has changed. You would never 256 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: let your kid walk to school alone at age four 257 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: because somehow the manifestation of bad people is just like accelerated. 258 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: But I always felt when about California and I love 259 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: it is if you have any means, or even just 260 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: a car, you kind of move in your car between 261 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: place to place, never touching the society at large. In 262 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: New York, we all were taking the same subway, we're 263 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: all taking the same bus, we're all walking the same streets. 264 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: We were all integrated, whether whatever class or you place 265 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: you came from, which is very different than California, where 266 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: you're kind of being shuttled around in your car cocoon 267 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: between one bastion of your own community to another place 268 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: in your own community and not touching the community at large, 269 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: whereas in New York, you're literally on the subway together, 270 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: you're in the park together, you're on the streets together, 271 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: you're on the bus together, and so you're exposed and 272 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: through that exposure, you learn and you also tolerate each 273 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: other in a different way because you're kind of living 274 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: the same life, even if at the end of the 275 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: day you go to the penthouse or the twelfth floor, 276 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: and somebody else is going to the basement. The experience 277 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: the rest of the day is shared. 278 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very that's very smart. I see you studied 279 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: history at TOUGHS. So what was it about history or 280 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: what did you think? What direction did you feel like 281 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: your life was going to go. 282 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: I always wanted to be in showbiz, but I also 283 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: had considered being in the Foreign service and working in 284 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: international relations, and so I was looking at a degree 285 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: that could give me a basis for anything. And I 286 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: truly believe in the liberal arts education in a profound way, 287 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: and felt that the liberal arts education is the best 288 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: foundation to understand the stories that took place in reality, 289 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: which is history, and to understand the stories that took 290 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: place in creativity through like English classes and art history 291 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: and other modes of expression. Were really important to me, 292 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: and with advice from my family to to study that 293 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: way and not pursue an economics degree or a business degree, 294 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: and it sets you up for anything you wanted to do. 295 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: I happened to be fascinated with history. I played with 296 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: toy soldiers growing up. I had two uncles who served 297 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: in World War Two, Lester and Davy. I had a 298 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: lot of connectivity in my world to what came before me, 299 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: and it absolutely was something that interested me. It's partially 300 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, I created the Tutors about Henry the Eighth, 301 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: which was a big hit on Showtime and around the 302 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: world and still airs and other shows like that, including 303 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: Marco Polo because of my connectivity to history. So it 304 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: absolutely helped inform my creative process. But it truly gave 305 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: me a great foundation for anything and would work well 306 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: if I chose a different career also, but you know, 307 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: from a very young age, I knew I wanted to 308 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: go into show business. 309 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: Ye, So that brings me to my next question. But 310 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: I do have to say, you know, when I go 311 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: now and I'm talking to young actors or at universities 312 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 2: or whatever, that is one of the major pieces of 313 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: advices that I give to young actors, which is have 314 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: a broad base of education. If you just are studying 315 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: acting or theater, you don't have that sort of world 316 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: perspective that exactly what you said I feel like a 317 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 2: liberal arts college brings. And truly it's one of the 318 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: reasons that I made the decision, you know, to not 319 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: go to a school like Juilliard or Carnegie Mellon or 320 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 2: with that, with all respect to those schools, I wanted. 321 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: I wanted that liberal arts experience. So I think that's 322 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: really smart for you. Like when were you like this 323 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: is what I'm going to do. Because you are a 324 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 2: creative person, you came from a creative family. But when 325 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 2: was the decision for you made that you wanted to 326 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 2: work in entertainment. You wanted to produce, and you and 327 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: you wanted to lead and create, but from a non 328 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 2: creative side, not that you're not creative, but that you 329 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: wanted to manage and run television. 330 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: Well, I think there was a couple of touch points 331 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: that really impacted me. One is going to the movies 332 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: and just being in the movies, and specifically as a 333 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: young kid going to the Regency, which was an old 334 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: cinema in New York City on Broadway that played old movies, 335 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: and I fell in love with Fred Astaire as a 336 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: young kid and would dance in the aisles as Fred 337 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: would dance on screen. And so I had this kind 338 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: of connectivity as a very young boy, you know, in 339 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: my four or five six year old kind of brain space. 340 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: Then subsequently watching NBC in the eighties and what Brandon 341 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: Tartakoff unleashed with Saint Elsewhere and Hill Street Blues and 342 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: The Cosby Show and very specifically Cheers, my favorite show 343 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: of all time at that moment in time, and seeing 344 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: all of that and wanting to kind of understand it. 345 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: And then there was an article that came out in 346 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: New York Magazine about Brandon Tartakoff, and I read that 347 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: article and I really got excited about who he was 348 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: and what he did and how he got there. I 349 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: knew he went to Yale, I knew he played baseball, 350 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: I knew how he started and arrived there, and I 351 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: thought that was an unbelievably interesting guy and job and trajectory. 352 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: And then separately from that, I started to kind of 353 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: try and learn on my own. Like I was very 354 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: good at math, and so my sixth grade at Rhode 355 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: of Sholham Day School in New York City, I didn't 356 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: have to go to the regular math class. I was 357 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: kind of put in my own math class with one 358 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: other kid, David Kart, And I remember I chose to 359 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: write and work on statistics and understand ratings. So in 360 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: the sixth grade I was doing a project on rats 361 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: instead of going to regular math class. And so I 362 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: kind of knew, you know, and I was trying to 363 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: figure out ways to know. But reading about Brandon showed me, oh, 364 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: there's a job like that. Watching television showed me how 365 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: much I loved it, and going to the cinema and 366 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: you know, showed me how much I loved it. And 367 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: then seeing my family in the arts, but struggle in 368 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: the arts also made me want to be more of 369 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: a mogul than a kind of artiste. And okay, okay, 370 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: and I really wanted my stuff seen. I was like, 371 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: whatever I do, I wanted to be watched and consumed. 372 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense. I mean the crazy thing. And 373 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 2: we've talked about this before, by the way, if you 374 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 2: if you haven't noticed so far, this is how you 375 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: can never win an argument with Ben Silverman. He remembers 376 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: every name. I mean, the names that you're pulling out 377 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: from sixth grade. I mean, it's unbelievable. But you as 378 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 2: a child, which is what I wanted to touch on it, 379 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 2: just at least briefly, how crazy it is you wanted 380 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 2: to be the chairman of NBC. Like it's such a 381 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: specific dream and such an ah Like I don't know. 382 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: I just find it so fascinating that every step in 383 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 2: your life, which of course eventually you got there spoiler 384 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: alert like that that happened at such a young age, 385 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 2: and you were able to see the impact that you 386 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: could have, not necessarily, as you said, being a creative 387 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 2: like your parents, who you saw struggle. 388 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: Yes, and you have to manifest. You have to manifest, 389 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: and you have to keep marching towards whatever it is 390 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: you want to accomplish, and you have to really dare 391 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: to dream. You know, my mom would always say, you're 392 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: the boy. If I locked you in a closet by accident, 393 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: you would have come out telling me how great the 394 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: dark was. So you need to find your path and 395 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: your enthusiasm and your happiness and whatever is presented to you, 396 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: because it's everything is. 397 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 2: So damn hard. 398 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: You better enjoy the ride or be able to kind 399 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: of find your way to it. One thing, even further, 400 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: that was crazy. When I got to college at Toughs, 401 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: which I loved and was a great, great environment for me, 402 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: I wrote a paper in a creative writing class there, 403 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: and my paper, the best thing I ever wrote, was 404 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: all about this young kid getting an internship in Hollywood, 405 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: and then he meets Brandon Tartakoff in the paper I 406 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: wrote about it, and that Brandon, well really likes the 407 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: kid and connects to the kid, and then and then 408 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: the kid gets gets hired and he makes it. And 409 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: then by the end, the kind of the end of 410 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: it is isy and he no longer returns Madonna's phone calls. 411 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: That was that was That was like the entire trajectory 412 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: of my, you know, twenty year old self's creative writing project. 413 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: So it came true, except now it's it's Correl's phone calls. 414 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: I'll always I'll always return Toil's focus. 415 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: Something I saw that I never put together before. First off, 416 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: you were an agent at William Morris and we've talked 417 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 2: about that before and the impact that that had. But Ben, 418 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 2: obviously or not obviously, Ben started Creative Revelly, which was 419 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: the production company behind the office. I didn't realize how 420 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: close it was to the office, Like were you starting 421 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 2: revillly as you began those early conversations with Gervais. I'd 422 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 2: never put this together. 423 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,959 Speaker 1: Well, I had awareness of the office while working at 424 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: William Morris, okay, and then basically did it all so 425 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: quickly as I moved into the same office building on 426 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: a different floor with my crew of assistants who I 427 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: had been slowly promoting or quickly promoting inside William Morris, 428 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: and went to work on the things I had wanted 429 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: to do myself while at William Morris. And knew that 430 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: they would end up ruining in the way they would 431 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: have approached it. You know, even like Greg Daniels wasn't 432 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: represented by William Morris, and I knew if I brought 433 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: the office into William Morris, someone would force only a 434 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: William Morris client into it. I knew that there was 435 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: going to be a lot of things that would destroy 436 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: I didn't have the rights, I didn't have the conversation 437 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: with Ricky until I was independent. None of that had 438 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: played out. It just happened quickly the moment it was 439 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: quickly out. And same with the restaurant, the show I 440 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: created while in William Morris. My first phone calls on 441 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: the restaurant were made at William Morris, and then I 442 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: left to go do the work and begin the process 443 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: at large. And that was a rapid fire thing. 444 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: I mean, that all so crazy, that that happened so fast, 445 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 2: that's so crazy. Founded in two thousand and two, Ben 446 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: created the US adaptation of the Office. Obviously epeed many 447 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: other shows like The Restaurant he just mentioned, Biggest Loser, Ugly, 448 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 2: Betty Date, My Mom, and many many more. What was 449 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 2: it for you about acquiring rights to these shows that 450 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: existed elsewhere and bringing them to the United States. What 451 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: was the magic What would you describe, humbly, of course, 452 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 2: as the magic sauce, the magic potion that you had 453 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: or tried to put on to make these shows palatable 454 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 2: for a US audience. 455 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: Well, one of it was like seeing something and connecting 456 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: to how it would apply to the American vernacular, like 457 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: watching The Office. The Office actually felt informed by American 458 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: office life. It was just done in a very British way, 459 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, somewhat sadder, somewhat more pessimistic, and somewhat somewhat 460 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: more uncomfortable than our show was done. I always talked 461 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: about it as kind of the CPA version, and we 462 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: though had office life at scale and had a sense 463 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: of drudgery in our American offices as well, that it 464 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: would relate to you know, instantaneously, the word is the same, right, 465 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: it HiT's the office in both cultures. In other shows 466 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: I had to kind of identify where and how they 467 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: would translate, like what made sense for those ideas to 468 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: work inside the United States. And then there were some 469 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: that should have been created in America but just happened 470 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: to have started overseas, which I saw as an agent, 471 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: like Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Like that is 472 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: the quintessential American show. It just happened to be created 473 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: by a brit for the British market and obviously worked 474 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: everywhere in the world. But as I thought about the 475 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: specific shows, there were some things that I knew would 476 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 1: never work. You know, there were shows about a rural 477 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: pastor or something that raised sheeap in the English countryside 478 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: that was going to be like a harder adaptation to 479 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: find and kind of dial in. And then there were 480 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: ones that you just knew, right with the right take, 481 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: the right vision, the right location, the right team, this 482 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: could really pop and connect on a human level and 483 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: on a conceptual level to a larger American audience than 484 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: the smaller international audience that had seen it. A lot 485 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: of that changed as those shows started to be seen 486 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: on the streamers now, but at that time there was 487 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: no outlet for the original material, so no one even 488 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: was familiar with them. 489 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: Right now, I feel like you have an inate ability 490 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: to see the universality of certain either formats or subject 491 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,959 Speaker 2: matters that can apply. And I feel like with the 492 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: Office specifically, it's just a conversation that I had with 493 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: both Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant, who said essentially the 494 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: same thing, which one us they felt like mistakes were 495 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 2: made in the past on English shows brought to the 496 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: US because the English creators kept holding on sort of 497 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 2: for dear life with their fingernails and trying to say no, no, no, 498 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,479 Speaker 2: it's got to be like this, this is how we 499 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 2: did it, This is how we did it. Whereas Ricky 500 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: and Steven they feel like their greatest contribution was to say, 501 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,719 Speaker 2: Greg Daniels and Ben Silverman understand America way better than 502 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 2: we do. They understand American television way better than we do. 503 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: Let's let them take the format and adapt it in 504 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: a way that makes sense there. But I feel like 505 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: you have sort of an innate ability to see all 506 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: of those steps when just taken with the original material. 507 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: Well and like and as a young as a young man, 508 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: a young precocious man, in that process, I remember having 509 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: to live with that and deal with many people whose 510 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: shows I felt were so adaptable and incredible and insisting 511 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: that it was the same cast and the same writer 512 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: adapting them. And then I'm like, well, why do it right? 513 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: You know, why adapt it? And in fact, you don't 514 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: know the intricacies of our language. You know the intricacies 515 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: of your language. You don't know the style of our humor. 516 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: You know the style of your humor, and you're going 517 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: to ruin it. And sometimes, like with great sex, you 518 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: need to lose control, you know, And that was you know, 519 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: like there's there are moments where you just have to 520 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: let it happen. And yeah, this was absolutely the case 521 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: with Ricky and Steven, where they were like, we love 522 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: what we did. We liked you and the vision you 523 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: have for this, so go for it. We'll give you 524 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: everything you need and we'll explain everything we did. But 525 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: then it's yours to run with. And they were not 526 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: around set. They were not you know, looking over our shoulder, 527 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: They were not second guessing us. They were embracing us. 528 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 1: And I think, as I also told them, they would 529 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: make a lot more money, do you know, from our 530 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: show than they ever would from theirs. And many more episodes. 531 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: And I always said for fans of the original Office, 532 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: you will only have twelve episodes no matter how you 533 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: cut it. You know, we have two hundred and twelve 534 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: right now. 535 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: That's right, and I think significantly for you, you know, 536 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 2: with of course, all due respect to all of the 537 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 2: other creative people that worked on the show. You know, 538 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 2: it's also that little sixth grader with karp got I 539 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 2: remember the name that you know, we're studying ratings and 540 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 2: statistics and ratings percentages. You know. Having an understanding of 541 00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 2: the business of American television is also part of it. 542 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 2: I mean, the creatives have to make certain decisions that 543 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 2: enable the show to go two hundred and twelve episodes, 544 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 2: obviously with your input, but having a sense of how 545 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 2: do we serialize this, how do we make this go 546 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 2: for twenty four to thirty episodes a year for nine 547 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 2: ten years, that's a big part. All right. So here's 548 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 2: my question. Because you have had amazing success in terms 549 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 2: of looking into the future and people going what the fuck, Ben, 550 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 2: that's insane, what are you talking about? That's insane, and 551 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 2: you finding a way to make it work. Here's my question. 552 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 2: I want to hear at least one. But I want 553 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 2: to hear an example of something where in the end 554 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 2: you say to yourself, what was I thinking like that 555 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: that could never work? Like what what is an idea 556 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 2: or a show that you had that did not pan 557 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 2: out well? 558 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: Had obvious failure? One of them, One of them that 559 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: I made was Casanova with Jean Pierre Jeannet, which was 560 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: in my kind of what I thought would be my 561 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: trilogy of tutors and Marco Polo, and then I would 562 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: do Casanova in France. Jean Pierre Janet is incredible director, 563 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: and I made that show for Amazon in its early days, 564 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: and it was so Janet was so cuckoo about the 565 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: sex and was so aggressive about the kind of craziness 566 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: of that world and the strange behavior that he saw 567 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: in the Paris of that moment, and I got seduced 568 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: by it, and I was like, Okay, yeah, maybe maybe 569 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: there's a large audience for this. The initial reaction of 570 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: the Amazon Prime mom who watched that show was I'm 571 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: not only I mean, that show could have taken Amazon down. 572 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: It was that bad choice and that wrong of an 573 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 1: environment to put that show, you know, And I really 574 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: really didn't understand the environment Amazon, which is now like 575 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: so kind of almost puerile, and the kind of content 576 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: that makes to service its you know, giant toilet paper 577 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: buying audience. And then and then I didn't understand that 578 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: Depravity was not for everyone. So that that was a massive, 579 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: sad mistake that I made and wrong place wrong. I 580 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: kind of thought premium content could push the envelope further 581 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: than it had with sopranos and Peters and no, there's 582 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: an end. There's an end to that. There's a time out, 583 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: time out bill. That's one step too far. I don't mind. 584 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: I don't mind Henry the Eighth getting a blowjob, but 585 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,720 Speaker 1: you know this is one step two podcasts. 586 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 2: What makes me laugh really is just like, oh, one 587 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 2: of your shows built Netflix and the other one almost 588 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 2: killed him. 589 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: Like that. 590 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: That is now. That's now how I'm gonna think of it. 591 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 2: So why did you sell Revee? 592 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 1: Because I got name chairman of NBC and when absolutely 593 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: the biggest mistake of my life. 594 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 2: Pure taking taking taking the job or selling Revee or I. 595 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: Had to sell Reveale because of the job. I shouldn't 596 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: have had the childhood desire to run NBC, because had 597 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: I continued with revee I would own an island somewhere 598 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: and be Richard Branson level wealthy or whatever it is. 599 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: I I that company and what I saw coming and 600 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: the content I had ready to go behind. It was 601 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: so good, and I was so on fire and so 602 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: beloved and so the bit boy wonder kind that it 603 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: had every bit of momentum. And two years later, the 604 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: woman who bought my company sold it for seven times 605 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: the amount I sold it to her for. So it 606 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: was it was clearly undersold. I sold it on a 607 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: phone call. I didn't even take it to market. I 608 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: literally was like so naive about it. I'm like, sure, 609 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: you know what, you can buy it? What do you 610 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: think it's worth? Okay, fine, you know, like that's a 611 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: lot of money. And had no idea how valuable it 612 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: was and how unique it was and how extraordinary it 613 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: was in that amount of time to create the Biggest Loser, 614 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: the Tutors, Ugly Betty and The Office, let alone the 615 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: twenty other shows. I pioneered with my team and partner 616 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: or Howard Owens, the transformation of advertising supplied content. I 617 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: was becoming the leader in digital content. I knew streaming 618 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: was coming. I was working with Microsoft. I was working 619 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,919 Speaker 1: with the early technologists as they wanted to figure out 620 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: content to define themselves. I was inside every outlet at 621 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: a premium, a one level, and my creative juices were 622 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: so sharp, So that was a huge mistake. But I 623 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: did it because I had a childhood fantasy of running NBC. 624 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: I didn't expect an economic crisis. I didn't expect General 625 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: Electric to be in the process of selling it, and 626 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: I didn't expect a writer's strike that was also a 627 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: screen actors Guild strike. And I certainly didn't expect that 628 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: there would be one journalist who wanted to take me 629 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: down because I looked like I was having fun. 630 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, look, it's impossible to feel bad 631 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 2: for you. Number one. I hope you understand that it's impossible, 632 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 2: because you have lived everyone's fantasy, and I think including 633 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 2: I don't know someone like Leonardo DiCaprio, but I understand 634 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 2: what you're saying. But it's so fascinating that pull, that 635 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 2: drive to what you saw what you saw as what 636 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 2: you wanted as a young child and as a medium child, 637 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 2: to have the opportunity to accomplish that. And maybe there 638 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 2: was another choice that would have been better. But that's 639 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 2: very interesting, Yeah, that you regret that you found it 640 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 2: Electus in two thousand and nine did a variety of 641 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 2: shows there, including Jane the Virgin. Eventually with the aforementioned 642 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 2: Howard t Owens, you found an chair Propagate Entertainment, which 643 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 2: now runs Electus as well as Artists First and Big 644 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 2: Breakfast and Authentic Management, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 645 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 2: What do you feel like you can do now with 646 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 2: Propagate that you couldn't before. 647 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: Well, part of it now that I'm really excited about 648 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: is what's going on in the brand creation led by 649 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: talent and IP relationship to audience. And just like we 650 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: collaborated and partnered up to open up new mediums like podcasting, 651 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: we have also been able to take the IP of 652 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: a podcast turn it into a book. And you know, 653 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: finding and seeding our own IP is something I'm really 654 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,280 Speaker 1: excited about. Before it was all about traveling the world 655 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: to find the IP. Now there are opportunities to seed 656 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: our own IP through these new forms and modalities of expression. 657 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: And I also am loving and have been incredibly focused 658 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,879 Speaker 1: on and saw the kind of transformation that we're going 659 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 1: through in brand create and you know, obviously George clooneyan 660 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: one of my best friends, Mike Meldman's you know Cassa 661 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: Amigos and what they did together, and what Ryan Reynolds 662 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: has done in basically every category in the world. I mean, 663 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: he's like the modern actor Warren Buffett in his life 664 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: in the stuff that he's pursuing and creating. And then 665 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: so many other examples Leonardo Dicaprian all birds, like all 666 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 1: these touch points of where celebrity and direct relationship to 667 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 1: audience are unlocking. Brand creation has been amazingly interesting to me, 668 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: both for the curiosity and where brands are also culture. Now, 669 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: you know, you are what you wear, you are what 670 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: you eat. And I'm working with Cedric the entertainer and 671 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: Anthony Anderson, who I absolutely adore and are brilliant, brilliant 672 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,360 Speaker 1: collaborators and comedians and entertainers and men, and we have 673 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 1: launched a product called AC Barbecue and it's been a 674 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: absolute labor of love. And we have just recently launched 675 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,280 Speaker 1: in twenty three hundred walmarts, and we'll be expanding across 676 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: the nation with our you know, our flavor profiles and 677 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,800 Speaker 1: our and our various product lines and ac Barbecue comes 678 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: from Anthony and Cedric's authentic love of food, as they 679 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: call themselves handsome and husky, which is in a category 680 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 1: you could fit in there, Bry, and they have absolutely 681 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: invested in it because they see it as well as 682 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: a way to connect further with their audience, deliver on 683 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: something they love and care about, and grow a business 684 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: because it's a lot harder to monetize traditional content in 685 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 1: today's you know, media ecosystem, but it's much easier to 686 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,439 Speaker 1: directly connect to your consumer and audience in today's ecosystem. 687 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 1: So focusing on that has been a real exciting chapter. 688 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,280 Speaker 1: And the company we've built to propagate is the perfect 689 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: vehicle to do that. And it's something I'm very excited 690 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: about and loving and is highly rewarding in the same 691 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: way it's rewarding to turn on the television and see 692 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: your show, it's rewarding to see your product in a store. 693 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:33,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's fascinating. That idea of entertainment and content 694 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 2: being yeah, what you eat, what you wear, what you drank, 695 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 2: what people consume. 696 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I talk about like the three c's. I talk 697 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 1: about where culture and content create commerce, you know, And 698 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: that's like a big flywheel for me. It's like, you know, 699 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: how how do you create culture and how do you 700 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: turn it into commerce? And at the center of it 701 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: is content. 702 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 2: With celebrity, which brings consumption. Boom five the five I 703 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 2: trademark with the second two. 704 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: With the bb himself come to five. 705 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 2: You talked a little You just mentioned this a little bit. 706 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 2: You and I, well, I mean we're partners. There's no 707 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 2: other way around it. This podcast here, as you all know, 708 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 2: produced by Ben and Propagate. And first of all, Oral 709 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 2: History of the Office. Were you happy with the Oral 710 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,320 Speaker 2: History of the Office and how that came out about? 711 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: I was so happy with it, Brian one. You are 712 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: so talented and thoughtful and so intellectual, not just so funny. 713 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: And I keep going and and all those years of 714 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: chugging cigarettes and Jim Beam have really made the greatest 715 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 1: voice in podcasting. 716 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 2: And I don't know what you mean by the way, 717 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 2: Jim Beamer, I don't know what he's. 718 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,439 Speaker 1: He doesn't drink Brown Royal, but just either way, Jim 719 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,720 Speaker 1: Beams sounds funnier. But it made me so happy also 720 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: because what surprised me about it really was the reaction 721 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: of all of the people involved with the office to 722 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,800 Speaker 1: this moment ten years later to kind of talk about 723 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,840 Speaker 1: the show and reconnect, and we had kind of splintered 724 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 1: off like the show ended, and we all went on 725 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: our own journeys and paths, and we're happy with the 726 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 1: equity and success that that show had given us for 727 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: the rest of our lives in terms of the ability 728 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 1: to have that as part of our resumes. Right, it 729 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 1: is the most popular show arguably now in the history 730 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,360 Speaker 1: of television, and uniquely one that has remained its relevancy 731 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:08,320 Speaker 1: generation to generation that I've never seen before. But bringing 732 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: us all back together provided a real emotional thing I 733 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 1: didn't expect, and seeing everyone's willingness to participate and talk 734 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,720 Speaker 1: about it and share their stories about the origin story 735 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: was highly rewarding. And as people ask me about it, 736 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,920 Speaker 1: I go, if you want to learn how culture is created, 737 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,359 Speaker 1: if you want to learn what it takes to make 738 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: a hit show, this is the best textbook in history 739 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: around the architecture of television. 740 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean well said. I think the other thing 741 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 2: that the show was bigger than it was when it 742 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 2: was on the air and continued to get bigger and bigger, 743 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 2: which I think necessarily brought us all back together. I 744 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 2: mean that was I think the reason for the excitement 745 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,840 Speaker 2: for some of the emotion, because that, to me, that's 746 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 2: the thing that had never happened before. The uniqueness of that, 747 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 2: I think was a huge part of it as well. 748 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 1: And so rewarding to us because while we were making it, 749 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: we knew we were making the best comedy on television. 750 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 1: We knew it in our guts. We understood how adventurous 751 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: it was and how outright funny. It was something that 752 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:33,400 Speaker 1: is lost in modern comedy. And I felt so validated personally, 753 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,799 Speaker 1: as did everybody involved, that it found its audience eventually, 754 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,840 Speaker 1: and I think we all felt a little ripped off 755 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,880 Speaker 1: while it was on air that it wasn't as validated, 756 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,520 Speaker 1: and so to share in that moment, as you describe it, 757 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 1: Brian as brilliant, because it was that Wow they figured 758 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,759 Speaker 1: it out. Wow they loved it right, you know, isn't 759 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,799 Speaker 1: this cool? Like we did. We didn't go. We weren't 760 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: driving around in limos and spraying champagne on each other 761 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,840 Speaker 1: every every Friday morning. After the show aired on Thursday. 762 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,960 Speaker 1: It took us ten years later and we were all 763 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,840 Speaker 1: splintered out into a million different plays I was basically 764 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,719 Speaker 1: like bizarre, Like I didn't enjoy as much while it 765 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: was happening as I do after it has happened. And 766 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: if I'm on an airplane and someone sits next to 767 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,919 Speaker 1: me and ask me what I do, I just say 768 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 1: I produced the Office. I don't even talk about anything else. 769 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,840 Speaker 1: There's like there's nothing else inside the whole thing that 770 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,759 Speaker 1: I talk about. You know, I can go into it 771 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: for a second or third question, and there are clear 772 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 1: ugly Betty fans and Jane the Virgin fanatic, sure, and 773 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 1: untold lovers. But I'm just like, I've produced the Office, 774 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,799 Speaker 1: and that's like kind of like my baton drop. By 775 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: the way, baton drop is the worst thing I've ever said. 776 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,800 Speaker 1: I meant the mic drop the baton drop. My tire 777 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: relay got lost. We finished in ninth place. We didn't 778 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,880 Speaker 1: even finish the race. But you can no one dropped 779 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,560 Speaker 1: the baton. I just want to know we're keeping this in. 780 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 2: I had literally transitioned to my next question and did 781 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 2: not hear the words baton. I don't know where that 782 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 2: most amazing thing I've ever heard. 783 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: That's Japanese get lag ladies and gentlemen. That is Japanese 784 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,719 Speaker 1: get leg is by far the worst get lag I 785 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,319 Speaker 1: have ever had. So you just watch it play out. 786 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 2: I do have to ask you, I want your candor here. 787 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,160 Speaker 2: In two thousand and eight, while you're chairman of NBC, 788 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 2: guess what happened? There was a writer strike. You've talked 789 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,440 Speaker 2: a lot about. Well, that major job, very difficult to 790 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 2: chairman of NBC, trying to get content on the air 791 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,240 Speaker 2: during a strike. Now here we are in another writers strike, 792 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:55,160 Speaker 2: I think very soon to be an actor and writer strike. 793 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,880 Speaker 2: How is it different for you now than it was 794 00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,920 Speaker 2: when you were chairman of NBC And what are your 795 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 2: what are your feelings? 796 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:06,919 Speaker 1: Well, it's it's painful now as a producer because while 797 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,239 Speaker 1: I was at NBC and all these executives, they're still 798 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,640 Speaker 1: getting paid, right, you still get your salary. You know, 799 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 1: we're not making stuff, we're not getting paid. So it's 800 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:22,640 Speaker 1: unbelievably painful on a real primacy of financial renumeration. You 801 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:27,399 Speaker 1: know that that is a major major challenge now versus then. 802 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,480 Speaker 1: But separately, the world is soft up and there's just 803 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 1: so many lines of miscommunication and hatred and intractability across 804 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: the spectrum of our lives. Right now and it's playing 805 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,960 Speaker 1: out inside our writer strike and you know when David's 806 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 1: Aslov's getting booed at the BU commencement streech because of 807 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:56,200 Speaker 1: the writers, and like it wasn't like that public a 808 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,960 Speaker 1: class warfare when it was going on. It was just 809 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,839 Speaker 1: more about like are they going to get more residuals 810 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,560 Speaker 1: or not? And it was, you know, like there was 811 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,280 Speaker 1: all these things. But it's now like it's truly taking 812 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,640 Speaker 1: on a labor movement, and before it was kind of 813 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,080 Speaker 1: like a middle class movement against a upper class movement. 814 00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,399 Speaker 1: You know, now it's it's got a lot more to it, 815 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: and a lot more teeth and a lot more intractability, 816 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,040 Speaker 1: and a whole new set of players who can actually 817 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,520 Speaker 1: survive it more on the studio and streaming side, which 818 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,680 Speaker 1: it makes a compromise a lot harder. And it also 819 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:42,360 Speaker 1: has so many people with so little knowledge about actually 820 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: what is going on inside the fight. I always find 821 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,720 Speaker 1: the AI thing, like, if you're even talking about AI 822 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: as it relates to this strike, you're fucked right. 823 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:58,120 Speaker 2: You don't know what's going on. It's is this is 824 00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 2: not what it's about, you. 825 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 1: Know exactly, But there's probably like you know, a thousand 826 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: members of the guild. I think their job is going 827 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,520 Speaker 1: to be taken by a bot, you know. And it's 828 00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,799 Speaker 1: like and so there's so many issues. So that's really challenging, 829 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 1: and it's and it's also so vitriolic. Like when I 830 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,000 Speaker 1: was doing it, I got made fun of. But Judd 831 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,919 Speaker 1: Apatow called me and said, Ben, you're a guy who 832 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,959 Speaker 1: loves creative people. You come from the creative side. Let's 833 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 1: work on solving this. And so I talked to Jet 834 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,799 Speaker 1: about it, and I would connect to people about it, 835 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,080 Speaker 1: and I would work on trying to solve it, and 836 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, really leaned across. I don't think those conversations 837 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,040 Speaker 1: are even happening. And then on the other side, there's 838 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 1: these like super rich uber writers now who are like 839 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,000 Speaker 1: the winners of the modern streaming ere who all got 840 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,080 Speaker 1: way overpaid for, you know, creating one show that didn't 841 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,719 Speaker 1: quite work. And they're sitting there like these writers and 842 00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, you're a writer, what do you what are 843 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,520 Speaker 1: you doing? You're a writer. Just because you made seventy 844 00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,400 Speaker 1: five million dollars doesn't mean guy shouldn't be allowed to 845 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,799 Speaker 1: make seventy five thousand dollars, Like, you know, so there's 846 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: all these like challenges, you know, across the board and 847 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 1: stupid noise entering the system that is a relevant to 848 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:19,000 Speaker 1: the real negotiation. So it feels very challenging, to say 849 00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 1: the lead, and disheartening. And you'll see a lot more 850 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,160 Speaker 1: Korean content, and you'll see a lot more other forms 851 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,200 Speaker 1: of content if it keeps going on, and then if 852 00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,960 Speaker 1: that content works, there's going to be less written content 853 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 1: by the guilds. I mean, it's just like this horrible spiral, 854 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 1: and so hopefully there's some great person and leader who 855 00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,920 Speaker 1: can step in and synthesize it all and make it happen. 856 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,560 Speaker 2: It's me, I'm just waiting for them to call me. 857 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,319 Speaker 2: I've got it all figured out. Tell me it's well, 858 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 2: it's so interesting that you say it feels like an 859 00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,919 Speaker 2: old school labor movement, because what you're talking about about 860 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 2: the noise and AI and all that's You're exactly right, 861 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,320 Speaker 2: it's but that feels like an old school political strategy 862 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,400 Speaker 2: of trying to confuse what the real issue is. And 863 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,719 Speaker 2: the real issue is is like those early labor movements, 864 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,440 Speaker 2: the working class and the middle class of actors and 865 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:19,640 Speaker 2: writers are being destroyed, and they just won't be there, 866 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:26,759 Speaker 2: and it all stems from from an inability or it 867 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:32,520 Speaker 2: all stems from never addressing what used to exist with 868 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,240 Speaker 2: DVD residuals now on the streaming side, because an actor 869 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,280 Speaker 2: who now does a job that in the old days, 870 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,759 Speaker 2: when they weren't having jobs for six months at a time, 871 00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:49,120 Speaker 2: they were still making every quarter some amount of money 872 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,480 Speaker 2: from residuals, and now they make none, and they lose 873 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 2: their health insurance, and then they get sick, and then 874 00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,759 Speaker 2: it it's I mean, it's this horrible, awful, but it's 875 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,279 Speaker 2: your're literally seeing it happen. It's not like in the 876 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,880 Speaker 2: future anymore. And I think I think in two thousand 877 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,879 Speaker 2: and eight it was about there's things called streaming. Now 878 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,960 Speaker 2: we need to figure out how we're doing that and 879 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:16,040 Speaker 2: GOLLI b make new contracts that will help deal with that. 880 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 2: But now it's like, oh no, Literally, people are not surviving. 881 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,520 Speaker 2: They're unable to survive on six episodes, but having exclusivity 882 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,120 Speaker 2: for a year, they're unable to survive without any basis 883 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:33,600 Speaker 2: for continuing to get paid during those times when their 884 00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:37,520 Speaker 2: work is still being seen by everybody on streaming services, 885 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:43,560 Speaker 2: they're still out there offering their entertainment, but there's no money. No, 886 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:48,320 Speaker 2: and very specifically, that means it's not a career. That 887 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,880 Speaker 2: means it's a hobby. That's right, it's a hobby. It's 888 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,280 Speaker 2: no longer a job, and that is that's right out. 889 00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,920 Speaker 2: And it used to be a career. You could do 890 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 2: it for your whole life, and you could say support 891 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,760 Speaker 2: your family and you could send their kids to college, 892 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,560 Speaker 2: and you could live a version of a real American life. 893 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,760 Speaker 2: And unless you're the point zero one percent of it, 894 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,760 Speaker 2: now you can't do that in the same way. I mean, 895 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,640 Speaker 2: you don't want to woes me for people who are 896 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,960 Speaker 2: making six figures, but you do need to woes me 897 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,720 Speaker 2: for the people who made six figures one time over 898 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,840 Speaker 2: a twelve year career and now are not able to 899 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,760 Speaker 2: make anything. And so it's very confusing and disturbing. I 900 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,360 Speaker 2: don't have the answer because the macroeconomic climate is so 901 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:43,240 Speaker 2: bad and all of the traditional media players are being 902 00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 2: killed regardless of a strike. So where does the money 903 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,160 Speaker 2: come from, Like, who's actually going to give the money 904 00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,840 Speaker 2: to settle this thing and make this thing go away? 905 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,000 Speaker 2: I don't know, and I don't have the answer because 906 00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,560 Speaker 2: one side is not doing well and the other side 907 00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,360 Speaker 2: is doing worse and that's not a great place for 908 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:10,720 Speaker 2: a negotiation. Yeah, that's right. You have so many new projects, 909 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,720 Speaker 2: thankfully for you, like your new barbecue brand, not on 910 00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,480 Speaker 2: the let's sit down and watch television space. I do 911 00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,920 Speaker 2: want to talk to you though, about your documentary series Untold. 912 00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 2: The storytelling is innovative, it is in depth, and you 913 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,520 Speaker 2: have a story in sports and as a sports fan 914 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,360 Speaker 2: that you think you know, but watching this series has 915 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,280 Speaker 2: taught me so much and has been so entertaining. So one, 916 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,120 Speaker 2: I just want to congratulate you on that, and two, 917 00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,360 Speaker 2: is that something that you want to continue to explore 918 00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:52,400 Speaker 2: through and with propagate the intersection of sports and traditional 919 00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 2: media and storytelling. 920 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,400 Speaker 1: One hundred percent? You know, we are all sports fans, 921 00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,280 Speaker 1: Drew Buckley, Howard, Me and the company and love sport, 922 01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,760 Speaker 1: and I'm told has become an incredible franchise and super 923 01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:11,760 Speaker 1: important to Netflix because it helps with their discovery, you know, 924 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 1: like instead of having a thousand individual documentaries, you're able 925 01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,440 Speaker 1: to create a franchise and an umbrella for the documentaries. 926 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,959 Speaker 1: And I think the title is so good because it's 927 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,840 Speaker 1: like exactly as you say, stories you think you know 928 01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:31,200 Speaker 1: but actually have been untold and we're going to tell them. 929 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,120 Speaker 1: And whether it's Marty Fish's documentary or The Malice and 930 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,760 Speaker 1: the Palace or the upcoming slate which is so strong 931 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:43,840 Speaker 1: and will be dropped starting in August. There is incredible 932 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:50,080 Speaker 1: material in these films and an incredible storytelling style. And 933 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,200 Speaker 1: the Way Brothers, who also did Wild Wild Country, who 934 01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:58,360 Speaker 1: are our creative partners, are brilliant storytellers themselves, And we 935 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,520 Speaker 1: love this franchise and I love documentaries in general. You know, 936 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:07,520 Speaker 1: we have always loved documentaries, but no one bought documentaries 937 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,800 Speaker 1: or aired documentaries before, and so one of the great 938 01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:16,400 Speaker 1: things about modern media is these new genres binding an audience. 939 01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,720 Speaker 1: There was a stat that our executive at Netflix gave us, 940 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: which was in the early days of Netflix, roughly with 941 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:27,520 Speaker 1: forty million subscribers, only ten percent of their audience would 942 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,040 Speaker 1: watch or had watched a documentary. Now, with whatever it 943 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,360 Speaker 1: is over, you know, one hundred million subscribers, eighty percent 944 01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,920 Speaker 1: of their audience is consuming documentaries. So I'm really proud 945 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 1: to be part of that. And I knew early on 946 01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,240 Speaker 1: that would happen because it's such a visceral and extraordinary 947 01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:51,840 Speaker 1: storytelling medium, and there's something about the honesty of the 948 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:56,040 Speaker 1: camera with real people that you connect to in a 949 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,760 Speaker 1: different way than just a scripted show. And as the 950 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:04,880 Speaker 1: script the show's got saturated, the documentaries actually became fresher. 951 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,080 Speaker 1: And so I love Untold. I think it's brilliant. We're 952 01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:14,040 Speaker 1: always looking for great new untolds to tell and I'm 953 01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,880 Speaker 1: excited to extend it to other genres. And we have 954 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:21,120 Speaker 1: an antonycul Smith documentary on Netflix right now that's incredible 955 01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,840 Speaker 1: that could easily be part of our untold of pop culture, 956 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,400 Speaker 1: you know. And so finding other frameworks to tell these 957 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:31,200 Speaker 1: stories and deliver these stories to an audience at large 958 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,240 Speaker 1: is super exciting to me and the company and an 959 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:39,160 Speaker 1: area that we're we're doubling down on and very excited about. 960 01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,840 Speaker 2: Well, I do want to give a compliment to your directors. 961 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,640 Speaker 2: I assume of untold because I think that I love documentaries. 962 01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:52,000 Speaker 2: I love watching documentaries. I think so often there is 963 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,040 Speaker 2: a little bit of that feeling of you're aware that 964 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,640 Speaker 2: someone is either talking in a certain way or behaving 965 01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,400 Speaker 2: in a certain way because they know they're going to 966 01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,440 Speaker 2: be on television. And here's the thing, I feel like, 967 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:06,480 Speaker 2: in a real visceral way. As you're watching this series, 968 01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,800 Speaker 2: you feel like you are really getting to know these 969 01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:15,560 Speaker 2: people as characters, and even though they're not scripted, even 970 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,320 Speaker 2: though they are real people, the camera man, it gets 971 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:23,240 Speaker 2: really inside and I feel like you you really see 972 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,800 Speaker 2: the subjects and their feelings behind these different stories. So 973 01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:30,000 Speaker 2: I want to give kudos to again, I assume the 974 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,960 Speaker 2: director who is there doing the interviews on these stories, 975 01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,560 Speaker 2: because it's it's it's really well done. So congratulations on that, yes, 976 01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,640 Speaker 2: and thank you. And I think you just feel the 977 01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,080 Speaker 2: truth will set you free inside those films, you know, 978 01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:49,880 Speaker 2: And I feel like that absolutely the subjects don't feel 979 01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:56,040 Speaker 2: like they're manufacturing their responses. God, Ben, you know it. 980 01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:00,800 Speaker 2: I could talk to you forever, but kenetschi wa and 981 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:06,000 Speaker 2: uh damn it. I should have known. I should have 982 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:10,120 Speaker 2: known that one. Uh syonara, have a great time in Japan, 983 01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,160 Speaker 2: my partner, my friend. I love you. 984 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,000 Speaker 1: I'll see you back in the States. Let's see it 985 01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,600 Speaker 1: on the golf course. Let's get on the golf course, Brian. 986 01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,720 Speaker 1: We got a battle, We got a battle. Thank you, 987 01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,760 Speaker 1: Thanks Ben, thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. Brian. 988 01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,720 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure and love love talking to you to 989 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,000 Speaker 1: be continued as we say, and to be continued to 990 01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:32,800 Speaker 1: be continued. 991 01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:49,280 Speaker 2: Ben, my friend, thank you, Thank you for everything that 992 01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:53,040 Speaker 2: you do to move this industry forward. And as you 993 01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:57,120 Speaker 2: march into that brave new era, just promise me one 994 01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:01,200 Speaker 2: thing that you'll keep me in mind for cool new projects. Okay, 995 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,160 Speaker 2: thank you. Hi, I could do a celebrity brand, just 996 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,120 Speaker 2: tr try me out. As for the rest of you, 997 01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,240 Speaker 2: that's it for today. I'm off. You can always find 998 01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:16,280 Speaker 2: us on the gram as the kids call it. Anytime 999 01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,120 Speaker 2: you want a little dose of Off the Beat at 1000 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,320 Speaker 2: Off the Beat on the Instagram, And until next time, 1001 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:32,880 Speaker 2: have a fantastic week. Off the Beat is hosted and 1002 01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:38,480 Speaker 2: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Linglee. 1003 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,840 Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, 1004 01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,840 Speaker 2: Hannah Harris and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan 1005 01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:51,440 Speaker 2: Papa Zachary, and our intern is Thomas Olsen. Our theme 1006 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:55,240 Speaker 2: song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only 1007 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:56,360 Speaker 2: Creed Bratton