1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works and a love about things tech. This 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: episode is a request from none other than my producer TORII, 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: who said I should do an episode related to sleep 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: because that's one of her favorite activities. So today we're 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: going to look at the intersection of sleep and technology. 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: But first, let's talk about the science of sleep for 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: a bit, because the tech that is in that sleep 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: industry is all supposed to tap into the science of 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: sleep in some way or another. So let's get an 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: understanding of that first. Now, the average human spends between 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: one four to one third of their life asleep. If 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: you're TORII, adds closer to fifty fifty. So at the 16 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: end of your life, you could divide your age by 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: three and that's how many years you spent snoozing. More 18 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: or less you lay about No, but really, sleep is 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: is really important. Until the mid twenty century, the general 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: thinking around sleep was that it was just a time 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: of rest when your body and your brain kind of 22 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: went into hibernation mode and laid dormant, but in actuality, 23 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: your brain is pretty active when you're sleeping. In fact, 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: it can be so active that it can look almost 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: identical to an awake brain. It's engaged in activities that 26 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: are necessary to life, and according to Dr Mark Wu, 27 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: a neurologist at Johns Hopkins, those activities are also very 28 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: closely connected to quality of life, so not just making 29 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: life go on, but making the life you have worth living. 30 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Sleep consists of multiple stages in a cycle that repeats 31 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: several times per night. The first half for first section 32 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: of that cycle would fall into the category of non 33 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: R E M sleep or non RIM sleep. That itself 34 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: has four stages. So in the first stage, the body 35 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: is between being awake and asleep. This is the stage 36 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: you are in when you're first going to sleep. It's 37 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: also the stage you end up in when you're waking up, 38 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: typically unless you've been awakened out of the middle of 39 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: your sleep by something else. In the second stage, you 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: are in a light sleep, and at that stage your 41 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: heart rate and your breathing regulate and your body temperature 42 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: begins to drop. The third and fourth stages are deeper sleep, 43 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: and we now think it's these stages where the brain 44 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: experiences the restorative benefit of sleep. This is important for 45 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: the formation of memories, it's important for learning. It helps 46 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: you incorporate the stuff that you've experienced into long term memories, 47 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: and it prepares your brain for the next day so 48 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: that when you encounter new information, you can incorporate that 49 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: as well. Next comes R. E. M. And I do 50 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: not mean the band from Athens, Georgia, although they are great. 51 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: You know, they're a bunch of shiny, happy people. But 52 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: instead I'm talking about rapid eye movement. Now, in that 53 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: stage of sleep, the eyes are moving quickly behind closed lids. 54 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: Brain activity is similar to what you would experience when 55 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: you're awake. This is when you can have intense, emotionally 56 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: charged dreams. Some sleep experts have observed brain activity and 57 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: rem sleep that have exceeded the brain activity of an 58 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: awake person. So it's also in this stage when you 59 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: could experience a phenomenon called sleep paralysis. Now we don't 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: know a whole lot about this experience other than it 61 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: can be absolutely unnerving. I've actually experienced this in the past, 62 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: although not recently, a lot of people have had bouts 63 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: of sleep paralysis, and it can really scare you when 64 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: it happens. So, Uh, here's typically what's going on in 65 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: an episode of sleep paralysis. Your brain is aware of 66 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: your surroundings, but your body does not respond to your 67 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: desire to move, So you feel like you're awake, like 68 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: a d percent awake, except that you cannot move at all. 69 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: So this is very unnerving to say the least. It 70 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: also can be accompanied by hallucinations of both a visual 71 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: and an auditory nature. And in fact, there's a lot 72 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: of folklore and a lot of urban legends that are 73 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: based around this phenomena as people have experienced this and 74 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: tried to make sense of it in some way. Uh. 75 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: The mythology behind the succubus is often linked to sleep paralysis. 76 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: There's another one called night hag syndrome, where people have 77 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: said they've imagined a figure of a of a menacing 78 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: woman sometimes perched on their chest, preventing them from being 79 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: able to move. There are others who have interpreted this 80 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: as being visited by aliens, like there were these mysterious 81 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: alien like figures gathered around their bed and they were 82 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: unable to move. They all seem real and it is 83 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: genuinely scary to not be able to move. But from 84 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: what we can tell, this is all based on an 85 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: actual natural phenomenon that happens sometimes when you are aware 86 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: during an R E M stage of sleep, but you 87 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: are not unable to move. There's no supernatural cause for that. 88 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: It's something that just occasionally happens for some people that 89 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 1: happens more frequently than others. Sometimes it happens during times 90 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: of great stress and anxiety, and other times you might 91 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: not have these problems at all. But why would you 92 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: be paralyzed in the first place, Why would you be 93 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: unable to move? Well? When you go into R E 94 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: M sleep, your body essentially has the sort of shut 95 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: off switch for uh, your your conscious movement. It's probably 96 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: so that we don't hurt ourselves by thrashing around violently 97 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: in response to those vivid, emotionally charged dreams that I 98 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: mentioned that we experienced during R E M sleep. So 99 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: it's our body's way of protecting itself during that part 100 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: of the sleep cycle. Without it, we would be falling 101 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: on a bed or punching the person next to us 102 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: or whatever. It's not. You know, it's not meant to 103 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: be harmful, but it is not a great experience if 104 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: we happen to be aware of our surroundings, it's supposed 105 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: to be, you know, taking effect only when we are 106 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: unconscious and we're not aware of things. So when you 107 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: are aware of everything but you're unable to move, it's 108 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: pretty creepy. By the way, I've heard. One way of 109 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,559 Speaker 1: trying to deal with this is concentrate on making very 110 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: small movements with a part of your body, like your toes, 111 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: and that this can gradually get you out of the 112 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: the stage of sleep so that you are fully awake 113 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: and you don't have that experience anymore. If nothing else, 114 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: you can take your focus off of the hallucinations you 115 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: might otherwise be experiencing. So on a typical night, you'll 116 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: actually cycle through those various stages up to four or 117 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: five times. But also with each cycle, you spend a 118 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: little less time in stages three and four of the 119 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: non r EM sleep, and you spend more time in 120 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: REM sleep. Now, previously scientists thought that REM sleep was 121 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: the stage that was really important, that was restorative, that 122 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: would give you that lovely feeling of being rested when 123 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: you wake up. These days, scholarship suggests that's really those 124 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: third and fourth stages of non rem sleep that are 125 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: the most important. So kind of like how food science 126 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: keeps changing, sleep science keeps changing too, where we think 127 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: we know what's going on, and then as we learn 128 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: more we realize, well, that might not actually be true. 129 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: Maybe this other thing is true. There are two main 130 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: drivers for sleep biological drivers. The first is what we 131 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: call circadian rhythms. These are controlled by what amounts to 132 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: a biological clock in the brain. The clock does not 133 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: just keep time. I mean it does keep time. You 134 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: can separate people from external stimuli and they will fall 135 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: into a natural circadian rhythm. Typically it's a little bit 136 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: longer than twenty four hours that rhythm, so you will 137 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: gradually get off the day night cycle that everyone else 138 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: is on if you are again sequestered from everybody else. 139 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: But it reacts to external stimuli like light cueues. So 140 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: when it gets darker, the brain starts to trigger the 141 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: production of a hormone called melatonin, and when the brain 142 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: senses light, it's begins to to pull back on melatonin production. 143 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: So this is one of the reasons you hear people 144 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: say you should limit the light sources that are in 145 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: your sleeping area so that you can help trigger this 146 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: production of melatonin. It's one of the reasons why I 147 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: use a sleep mass actually. Now, as for what melatonin 148 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: actually does for humans, well, it's not completely understood, but 149 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: it might help synchronize circadian rhythms in different parts of 150 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: the body. As this hormone travels throughout the body, it's 151 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: produced by the brain, but then it travels to all 152 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: of our organs and it interacts with tissues that have 153 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: melatonin receptors. Melotonin receptors are special proteins that some tissues have. 154 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: Melatonin probably contributes to initiating and maintaining sleep, and also 155 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: helping our bodies maintain the rhythms necessary for typical activities 156 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: during the day and night cycles. So, in other words, 157 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: making sure everything is ready for action in the daytime 158 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: and ready for rest at night. And it's not essential 159 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: for human sleep, but we tend to sleep better during 160 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: the times that melatonin is being chugged out by our brains. 161 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: So you can sleep during the day and be awake 162 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: at night, it's just not as easy to do. The 163 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: second thing to regulate sleep is called the sleep drive. 164 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: Our bodies require sleep, Our bodies crave sleep throughout the day. 165 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: Our desire for sleep increases, and when it reaches a 166 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: certain level, we gots to sleep or we start suffering 167 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: some pretty nasty drawbacks. Sleep and hunger are in many 168 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: ways similar to one another because our body also increases 169 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: in hunger and we want to eat. However, our body 170 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: goes an extra step when it comes to sleep, because 171 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: no matter how hungry you are, your body doesn't make 172 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: you eat. You make yourself eat, but your body doesn't 173 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: force you to eat. However, if you're super sleepy, your 174 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: body can totally make you go to sleep without you 175 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: choosing for that to happen. Even if you don't want 176 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: to go to sleep at that moment, maybe you're doing 177 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: something important like driving a car. If you're tired enough, 178 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: your body might force you to go through what are 179 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: called micro sleep sessions. During those moments, you'll sleep for 180 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: a couple of seconds at a time, even with your 181 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: eyes open, so you kind of zone out for those 182 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: couple of seconds, which can again be really dangerous depending 183 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: on what you're doing. Also, you might want to take naps. 184 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: If you want to take naps, that's fine, just try 185 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: to limit your naps to less than half an hour, 186 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: especially if it's later in the day because otherwise that 187 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: can throw off your sleep drive and make it harder 188 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: for you to get to sleep at night. So typically 189 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: you want to keep your naps to twenty to thirty minutes, 190 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: especially later in the day. Sleep helps our brains deal 191 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: with input. It promotes what is called brain plasticity. When 192 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: you're low on sleep, you're gonna have problems learning stuff, 193 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: remembering things. You're gonna have that foggy feeling. Sleep also 194 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: is important for other systems not just our brains, like 195 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: our immune systems and our metabolism, So you want to 196 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: get good, regular sleep for good health. In general, the 197 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: sleep requirements are not set in stone for everyone. It's 198 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: not exactly like you can't just say everybody needs seven 199 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: and a half hours or eight hours of sleep. It 200 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: varies from person to person at least a little bit, 201 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: but generally speaking, healthy adults need between seven and nine 202 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: hours of sleep per night if they want to be 203 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: at their best. Kids and teenagers need more sleep than 204 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: adults do, and the older we get in general, the 205 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: less sleep we tend to need. But even senior citizens 206 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: would really only be at their best if they got 207 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: at least seven hours of sleep per night. So we've 208 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: got an activity that takes up a third of our lives, 209 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: and it's important to engage in this activity in order 210 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: for us to maintain a healthy lifestyle. We need sleep 211 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: to be able to function in general. So it should 212 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: come as no surprise that there are tons of products 213 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: out there that target sleep, because it's a no brainer. 214 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: Everybody needs it. So if you can make a product 215 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: that seems to help people do that activity or do 216 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: that activity more efficiently, then you stand to make a 217 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: lot of money because everybody's got to do it, and 218 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: maybe your product actually helps people. That would be the 219 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: ideal situation, of course, that the thing you're selling actually 220 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: does have a positive effect. But some of you may 221 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: already be way ahead of me here. If there's still 222 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: a lot we do not know or understand about sleep, 223 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: it's probably challenging to create products that will work for 224 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: a wide variety of people in a way that legitimately 225 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: helps you sleep. That is in fact the case, or 226 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: appears to be. That's not to say every sleep product 227 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: out there is bunk, but it's good to turn on 228 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: those critical thinking skills when we start looking at sleep technology. 229 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: I'll explain more in a second, but First, let's take 230 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: a quick break to thank our sponsor, Dafne la Prince Ringett. 231 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: And I know I'm mispronouncing your name, and I do apologize. 232 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: But Dafne wrote a great piece and Wired recently in 233 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: September two. It's titled sleep Tech is Booming, but It's 234 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: getting weirder and dodgier, and I recommend you check out 235 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: that article and it Daphne quotes Lloyd Price, who is 236 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: a co founder of a company called Zesti. Price said, 237 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: the industry as a whole is now in what we 238 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: call the plateau of productivity within the sleep tech hype cycle. Now, 239 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: the hype cycle is a concept from research firm Gardner, 240 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: and it describes the life cycle of a technology, not 241 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: just sleep tech, but every technology as it goes from 242 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: the initial concept all the way up to widespread mainstream adoption, 243 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: assuming it makes it that far. The typical chart for 244 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: the hype cycle looks like a really big hill on 245 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: a roller coaster ride that then goes into a deep 246 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: dip and then a gradual climb afterward. And it involves 247 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: things like your expectation and your adoption levels. So it 248 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: all starts the innovation trigger or the technological breakthrough that 249 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: gets things started. This would be the initial announcement of 250 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: something really cool and groundbreaking. At this stage, there may 251 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: not be anything that a consumer can get their hands on. 252 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: It may all be in the prototype or conceptual stage, 253 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: and people start hearing about and they get interested in it. 254 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: That leads into the peak of inflated expectations. This is 255 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: the high point on that roller coaster hill that I 256 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: was talking about. It's typically a pretty sharp, steep hill, 257 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: and this is where publicity gets people really really excited 258 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: for this technology. Everyone is at a fever pitch. They 259 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: think this technology has the potential to change everything. There 260 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: may not be an actual product out there, or maybe 261 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: there's only a very limited number and they can only 262 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: be adopted by like bleeding edge technology fans who have 263 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: a lot of in home that they can use to 264 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: buy this kind of stuff. But typically it doesn't it's 265 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: not widely available enough for for the average person to 266 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: get experience with it. Next, after the peak of inflated 267 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: expectations comes the trough of disillusionment. This is that dip 268 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: I was talking about, a low point in the life cycle. 269 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: This happens when people realize that the thing they got 270 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: the actual product they were able to buy doesn't meet 271 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: those high expectations they had. Now, high expectations can come 272 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: from multiple sources. They can come from pr folks who 273 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: are really promoting the heck out of a technology. So 274 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: it could be a misrepresentation of the tech, or it 275 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: could be a misinterpretation on the part of the consumer. 276 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: It's not necessarily the fault of publicists, although they do 277 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: tend to really tout the the positives of technology. I mean, 278 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: their job is to sell stuff. So I'm reminded of 279 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: virtual reality, both when it had its initial run in 280 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: the ninety nineties and the more recent attempts with stuff 281 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,239 Speaker 1: like the Oculus and the Vive products. Those products are 282 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: still around, but I say that they failed to deliver 283 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: upon some of the unrealistic expectations that we had built 284 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: up around them, and as a result, they had to 285 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: go through this trough period, the trough of disillusionment. Next 286 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: would be the slope of enlightenment. That's when we start 287 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: to see implementations of this technology that actually makes sense 288 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: and they have real value. They may not remotely come 289 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: close to meeting the incredible expectations we had had previously, 290 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: but they show how the technology can be used in 291 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: a real practical value added way. Then we finally get 292 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: to the plateau of productivity. That's when we get into 293 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: mainstream adoption of that technology. It becomes a practical part 294 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: of other technologies. Sometimes sometimes it just becomes a feature 295 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: on an existing product as opposed to a standalone thing, 296 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: and that is where sleep technology is now. According to 297 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: Lloyd Price. Then again, he co founded a health company 298 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: that has an interest in sleep technology, so it probably 299 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: would be good news to such a company that we 300 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,719 Speaker 1: have moved into this widespread mainstream adoption. It's hard to argue, though, 301 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: because sleep tech has found its way into lots of 302 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: different products. Many of the early examples of sleep tech, 303 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: many of the ones that are still around now, are 304 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: subsets of a trend called the quantified self. This was 305 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: the trend that spawned all sorts of stuff like activity trackers, 306 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: sleep trackers, technology that would give you data on a 307 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: day to day basis about your activities. It's all about, uh, 308 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: giving you data about your everyday life. The quantified self 309 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: started off as a movement back in two thousand seven, 310 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: and it was it was more or less founded by 311 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: a couple of guys named Gary Wolf and Kevin Kelly, 312 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: both of whom worked for Wired magazine, who really championed 313 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: this concept. And it's all about using technology to track 314 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: our personal activities, are day to day behaviors, and then 315 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: give us data about that so that we can, prefer 316 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: ideally use it in some way that benefits us, right 317 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: that we can get a better understanding of who we 318 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: are and what we do, and maybe fine tune our 319 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: behavior so that we're living our best lives. The quantified 320 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: self can involve using technology to gather information all by itself, 321 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: such as a pedometer, like we just wear the pardometer 322 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: and it counts the steps and it might send that 323 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: data somewhere. Or it can also include technology that requires 324 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: some sort of additional human input, like a calorie tracking 325 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: app that would tell you how many calories you've consumed 326 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: versus burned in a day. But in order to do that, 327 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: you have to actually tell the app what you ate, 328 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: so it can estimate the number of calories you've consumed, 329 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: and maybe it consults some other sensors like a pedometer 330 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: to estimate how many calories you have burned, and then 331 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: it can give you the full information afterward. Sleep trackers 332 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: fall into this category of the quantified self technology. These 333 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: are devices they're supposed to monitor your sleep patterns and 334 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: send that data to you in some useful way. So 335 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: how do sleep trackers work well, It kind of depends 336 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: on the technology. There are a few different approaches, but 337 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: the first level of sleep tracking depends heavily on accelerometers 338 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: that obviously measures acceleration. This method of assessing sleep predates 339 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: activity trackers and sleep trackers. It's called actography, and there 340 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: are specialized pieces of equipment called actographs, and they they 341 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: typically look like a watch. You would wear an actograph 342 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: on the risk of your non dominant hand in your 343 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: typical sleep study. The actograph can register and record movements. 344 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: So it's essentially the same thing as activity trackers and 345 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: fitbit trackers. But it's been around for a long time 346 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: and it was largely just the domain of medical establishment, 347 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: not not something you would go out and buy. The 348 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: data that would be gathered from these sleep sessions would 349 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: be analyzed to estimate sleep parameters and tell the sleep 350 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: specialists how well or poorly you slept in a given night. 351 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: And sleep specialists have been using act graphs for several 352 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: years and it's one of the preferred methods for measuring 353 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: sleep activity because it allows the user to sleep in 354 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: their own preferred space, like their own bed, rather than 355 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: having to try and sleep in a lab setting. It 356 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: is not the most accurate method of measuring sleep activity, 357 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: but it's less invasive than the more accurate approaches. According 358 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: to the National Center for Biotechnology Information, actography has been 359 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: well validated for the estimation of nighttime sleep parameters across 360 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: age groups, but the validity of the estimation of sleep 361 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: on set latency and daytime sleeping is limited. Clinical guidelines 362 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: and research suggests that risk actography is particularly useful in 363 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: the documentation of sleep patterns prior to a multiple sleep 364 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: latency test, in the evaluation of circadian rhythm sleep disorders 365 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: to evaluate treatment outcomes, and as an adjunct to home 366 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: monitoring of sleep disordered Breathing actography has also been well 367 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 1: studied in the evaluation of sleep in the context of 368 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: depression and dementia. Now, it is important to remember that 369 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: this is within the context of sleep specialists working with patients. 370 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: The trackers we tend to rely upon today may give 371 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: us information about our sleep activity, but it's not a 372 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: substitute for a medical professional if there's something wrong going on, 373 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: but it might be a way to alert us that 374 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: there's something we should have checked out. Also, the more 375 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: disrupted your sleep is, the more accurate actography can be 376 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: in telling you what is actually going on. Now, there's 377 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: another side to sleep trackers that is also problematic, and 378 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: that's anxiety some people feel when they're trying to beat 379 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: their high score. As it were. So you typically get 380 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: your sleep feedback data fed to you in some way 381 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: that's related to a grade, and people like getting good 382 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: grades and they hate getting bad grades, and they start 383 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: seeing that they have mediocre grades and they think, well, 384 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: I want to get that score up. That competitive nature 385 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: starts to come through. But this actually can start to 386 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: create anxiety and stress. You're stressing out about getting a 387 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: better grade in sleep. There's actually a name for this. 388 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: It is orthosomnia. Now, literally that word would mean correct sleep, 389 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: but it's being used to describe people who have an 390 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: unhealthy fixation on achieving that perfect night's sleep to beat 391 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: last night's score. Oh, it's so important to me. And 392 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: then ironically that can actually prevent you from getting even 393 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: a good night's sleep, let alone the perfect night's sleep, 394 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: And perhaps the more ironic thing is that these users 395 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: could be worried about data that isn't even accurately reflecting 396 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: their sleep to begin with. They could be looking at 397 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 1: a grade and thinking I can do better than that, 398 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: without knowing that they already have done better than that. 399 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: Fitness trackers that claim to tell you how long you 400 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: spent during each stage of sleep in that cycle I 401 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: was talking about earlier are not really reliable because they 402 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: measure movement, but sleep cycles don't depend on movements so 403 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: much as they depend upon brain activity, so fitness trackers 404 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: are literally not measuring the activity that's actually linked to 405 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: the various stages in the sleep cycle. There measuring movement, 406 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: not brain activity. Fitness trackers tend to give you are 407 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: a pretty high margin of error when it comes to 408 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: tracking how much time you actually spent sleeping, not to 409 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: mention the quality of the sleep, so you can't even 410 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: really trust most sleep trackers to give you an accurate 411 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: reading of how long you slept, let alone how well 412 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: you did it, so you could be obsessing over a 413 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: grade that isn't reflecting reality in the first place. Now 414 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: these days, sleep trackers are finding their way into lots 415 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: of other products, including pads that are supposed to slip 416 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 1: under your mattress or special pillows that monitor the movement 417 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: of your head throughout the night. But they all pretty 418 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: much tracked the same thing. They're all tracking movement. Some 419 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: of them do have nifty features that let you tie 420 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: together the sleeptracker with automated systems in your home. So 421 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: let's say it's the morning and you're starting to move around, 422 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: and it's indicating that, hey, this guy has probably woken 423 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: up because he's moving around a lot, and so it 424 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: starts to send commands to other automated systems and turns 425 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: the lights on or opens up the blinds, or just 426 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: the thermostat, or start your coffee maker. But it seems 427 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: to me those products are still making promises about giving 428 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: you detailed information on your sleep cycles that might not 429 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: be totally realistic. When we come back, we'll look at 430 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 1: some devices that are marketed as sleep trackers that don't 431 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: even require you to wear a device on your body. 432 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: So how do they track your sleep? You'll have to 433 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: listen carefully, But first let's take a quick break to 434 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: thank our sponsor. So there are a couple of newer 435 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: products that have hit the market. I'm not going to 436 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: name them, but there are a couple of different ones 437 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,239 Speaker 1: that hit the market recently that don't require contact in 438 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: order to track your sleep. So what are they doing. 439 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: They're actually using radio waves to monitor your sleep activity. 440 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: And you might think, what the heck does that mean. Well, 441 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: they rely upon essentially the same approach as radar, only 442 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: they're using different radio frequencies at very very low power, 443 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: so it's there's nothing harmful going on. It's using radio 444 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: frequencies at a power that's even lower than say, bluetooth. 445 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: The devices, there are a couple of different ones out there. 446 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: We'll send radio signals. Those signals collide with objects in 447 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: the space I eat you, and then the radio signals 448 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: bounce back and go back to the device, which then 449 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: picks up that information, and when you're moving, whether you're 450 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: moving toward or away, it will actually quote unquote know 451 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: that you are moving because of the nature of those 452 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: radio signals. This is all due to the Doppler effect. 453 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: We've learned about this in tech stuff before. But what 454 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: it means is that if you're moving toward the source 455 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: of radio waves, so let's say you're tossing in your 456 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: sleep and you turn and you're turning toward this device 457 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: as it's sending radio waves to you, and you're moving 458 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: towards those radio waves. When they bounce off you and 459 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: go back to the device, they're a little compressed, they're 460 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: a little closer together those those wavelengths. Then the so 461 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: the frequency has increased slightly because you moved closer. You 462 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: moved toward the source of those radio waves. So when 463 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: it picks it up the device, it says, oh, this 464 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: joker's moving towards me. If you were moving away, then 465 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: the radio waves would be a little elongated, to be 466 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: a little longer than they were when they were sent out. 467 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: So now the device is saying, oh, that's joker is 468 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: moving away from me. Now this this guy needs some sleep. 469 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: He's tossing all over the place, might be re enacting 470 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: WrestleMania two thousand right there in bed sucker. So you 471 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: then have some software that analyzes all this data, and 472 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: then it presents that data in an app that sorts 473 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: out your sleep supposedly by cycle. The devices are essentially 474 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: tracking your breathing and your movements, so it can actually 475 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: detect your breathing as well through the same process. So 476 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: you could argue then away they're slightly more advanced than 477 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: your basic actograph because acto graphs, the basic ones don't 478 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,959 Speaker 1: take your breathing into account. They're just measuring your movement. 479 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: But again, since your sleep cycle rely more on brain 480 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: activity than on movement, it might not provide the most 481 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: accurate data other than telling you what you might already know, 482 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: which is that you had a rough night, you weren't 483 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: able to settle down very easily. Chances are you know 484 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: that already. Well, maybe that's not a problem. Maybe you 485 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: just want to know in general how well you're sleeping. 486 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: You might get a good enough idea about that from 487 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: these various trackers. But then again, like I said, if 488 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: you're not sleeping well, you probably already know it just 489 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: because you feel tired, you feel a little foggy. You 490 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: probably have other indications already that you weren't sleeping well, 491 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: So you don't necessarily need a device to say, hey, 492 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: by the way, you didn't sleep well last night because 493 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: you feel it. So your mileage may vary with the 494 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: utility of these devices. But what about technology that's meant 495 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: to help you go to sleep, not just track your sleep, 496 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: but lull you into sleep. Well, again, I would recommend 497 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: keeping your s teptical hat on when you look at 498 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: this technology that's meant to help people get to sleep. 499 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: It's not to say that companies or inventors that are 500 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: creating this technology are specifically trying to trick you or 501 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: scam you. They may be sincere in their efforts, but 502 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: many of those inventions are coming from people who they 503 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: come up with a cool idea. They come up with 504 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: a way of making that idea reality, creating a gadget 505 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: that actually works based upon that idea. But they aren't 506 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: usually sleep experts. So while they're making something that quote 507 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: unquote works the way they intended, it doesn't necessarily work 508 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: in cooperation with human physiology. So their gadget may do 509 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: what it was supposed to do on a technical level, 510 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: but it may not be actually useful in a practical level. 511 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: So let's talk about some of these things. Um, and again, 512 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: I am not a sleep expert. I cannot say definitively 513 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: whether these devices work or don't work. I'm just saying 514 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: incorporate some critical thinking. So at c the company Phillips 515 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,959 Speaker 1: introduced a thing I guess you could call it a headband. 516 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: It looks really funky. It's called the smart sleep and 517 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: that's all one word, smart sleep. You'd wear it, and 518 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: it's supposed to monitor your brain activity during sleep. Now, 519 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: since that's the real indicator for which sleep cycles you're 520 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: passing through it in any given time, that a part 521 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: at least is right on track, right, you want to 522 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: measure brain waves more than movement or breathing because it's 523 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: going to tell you more accurately how much time you 524 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: spent in each stage of the sleep cycle. However, I 525 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: don't know how accurately it can read brainwave activity. That's 526 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: actually a little tricky. You know. If you're using an 527 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: e G, you would typically use electrodes placed in specific 528 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: spot along the scalp, and there are even versions of 529 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: that that go beyond that. They require implanted electrodes. That's 530 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: talking about surgery in that case too, surgically implant sensors. 531 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: But there are lots of e G s that just 532 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: use the surface level sensors. These sensors have to be 533 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: pretty sensitive to pick up brainwave activity because they have 534 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: to detect it through the skull, and typically they can 535 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: only detect the surface level activity, not anything deeper. Because again, 536 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: you've got a pretty good insulator with that skull there. 537 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: So this consumer level device is supposed to monitor those 538 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: brain waves and detect the various stages in the sleep cycle, 539 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: and when you enter slow wave sleep, the device begins 540 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: to play customized audio tones through special bone conduction speakers. 541 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: Bone conduction means that the speakers are going to send 542 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: vibrations of sound directly through your skull so that they 543 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: travel to your inner ear without having to play through 544 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: the air, so that the sound travels through your ear canal. Ideally, 545 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: that would mean that if you happen to sleep in 546 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: the same room as other people, those other people are 547 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: not going to hear those sleep tones going off in 548 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: the middle of the night because it's going to be 549 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: playing it directly against your skull. Does it work, I 550 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: have no idea. I am skeptical. I tried to search 551 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: for any clinical trial information about this, because it maybe 552 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: it does work, but I couldn't find any actual clinical trials. 553 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: I did find a proposed study, so it sounds like 554 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: it's one that has not yet actually happened. That proposed 555 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: study comes from Phillips itself, and the description of it 556 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: does not fill me with confidence. Honestly, the description of 557 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: the study begins like this quote. This study is a 558 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: non randomized, unblinded, uncontrolled case series clinical trial validating the 559 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,959 Speaker 1: smart Sleep product including sleep Mapper app in the home setting. 560 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: In the quote, so, the fact that it's non randomized, unblinded, 561 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: and uncontrolled does not seem like it's a very scientifically 562 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: rigorous approach. Those are all flags for me. I would 563 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: much prefer I randomized, blinded and controlled test where you 564 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: have a control group, you don't know each subject wouldn't 565 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: know whether he or she is in the control group 566 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: or the the actual test group. They would be randomly selected. 567 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: All of that would be much better if you want 568 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: scientific rigor. However, when you realize the purpose of the 569 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: study is really to legitimize a product that's already out 570 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: on the market, you start to get the feeling that 571 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: perhaps Phillips isn't super invested in making sure it has 572 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: the scientific chops to back up the claims. But that's 573 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: all guesswork on my part though. That's just the skeptic 574 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: and cynic in me talking, So it doesn't necessarily mean 575 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: the product doesn't work. I'm just skeptical, and I suggest 576 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: people use critical thinking. But hey, what about a sleep robot? Yeah, 577 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: you're ready to hear this one. Tarry Tary is really 578 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: excited about hearing about the sleep robot. So the sleep robot, 579 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: you're probably already imagining some sort of you know, maybe 580 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: like a like a robo Teddy Bear, or maybe it's 581 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: maybe it's a robot that's fully sized, humanoid robot that 582 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: can you know, spoon you. But no, it kind of 583 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: looks like a giant kidney bean made out of fabric, 584 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: like a plush kidney bean that weighs about four pounds. 585 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 1: They're supposed to hug it when you're going to sleep, 586 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: so you do kind of spoon it. You lay on 587 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: your side and you hug this this kidney bean like, 588 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, like we all want to when we go 589 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: to bed at night. We're just like, God, I wish 590 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: I had an enormous kidney bean I could cut all right. Now, 591 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: Well now you can uh with this somnos sleep robot. 592 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: The robot. Some people argue it's being very generous to 593 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: call it a robot has a speaker, and it has 594 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: a smart card reader, so you can actually store music 595 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: on a smart card and then insert the smart card 596 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: into the robot and it will play back whatever music 597 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: you've put in there. So if you want, you know, 598 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: nice soothing classical music, or some very gentle electronic music, 599 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: or maybe you want Andrew w. K telling you to 600 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: party in your sleep, you could do that. And it 601 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: has a mechanism also inside of the thing that simulates breathing. 602 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: So now you've got a breathing kidney bean clutched to 603 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: your chest. Now, the idea is that you would hug 604 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: this thing and you would slowly try to adjust your 605 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: breathing so that your breathing rate would match the pattern 606 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: that the device had set, and this would help you 607 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: relax and bring on sleep. The device is supposed to 608 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: shut off automatically, wants a de text that the user 609 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,479 Speaker 1: has fallen asleep, so it doesn't work well. It's based 610 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 1: off principles that have been studied by sleep specialists, including 611 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: this method of controlling your breathing in order to become 612 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: more relaxed. Next, there are a lot of meditation techniques 613 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: out there that focus on breathing and it's a good 614 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: way to prepare your body for sleep. But whether or 615 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: not this particular device works, I don't know. It is 616 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: at least based on those principles, however, so UH, you 617 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: might find a device helpful in making sure you're breathing properly, 618 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: that you're guiding your breathing to match the pattern that 619 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: this thing sets, but typically you could do that by 620 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: yourself if you really wanted to UM. It requires a 621 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: lot of focus and it may require a little practice 622 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: to get to that, and you might even require listening 623 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: to like a guided meditation track to help you set 624 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: the right pace for your breathing to help relax and 625 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: bring on sleep. But that could be significantly cheaper than 626 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: spending fifty dollars on a robot kidney bean. So I 627 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: haven't really covered technology that's meant to help with sleep disorders, 628 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: such as a c PAP machine that's also known as 629 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: a continue with positive airway pressure machine. Those are used 630 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: to help treat sleep apnea. So I'll have to do 631 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: a full episode dedicated to that technology in the future. 632 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: Much of that technology has been through rigorous testing because 633 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: this is technology that falls into the category of medical equipment, 634 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: So most countries require that anything that's being marketed as 635 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: a piece of medical equipment has to reach a certain 636 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: standard of performance to prove that actually does what's supposed 637 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: to do, that's medically beneficial, that uh, it has been 638 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,280 Speaker 1: tested thoroughly to make sure that it's safety use. Otherwise 639 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: it's illegal. The devices I mentioned in this episode really 640 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 1: aren't medical devices. They might make certain claims that kind 641 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: of tread into the field of medicine a little bit, 642 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: but they typically tend to be very very careful about 643 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: that so that they don't make any outright medical claims 644 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: because that would require them to also go through this 645 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: whole rigorous testing procedure, which could ultimately result in one 646 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: of these products being told or the company is being told, 647 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but this doesn't meet the standards that we 648 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: have set. And then you have a company that has 649 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: invested all this money in a product and it can't 650 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: sell it. So it makes economic sense to not go 651 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: down that pathway. However, it can be somewhat misleading, particularly 652 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: if you are a fairly naive consumer. So again, use 653 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: that critical thinking. Sleep is very very important, and ultimately 654 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: I would argue that if you find something that works 655 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: for you, whether it is scientifically proven to be effective 656 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: or not, ultimately doesn't matter if it works for you. 657 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,839 Speaker 1: If you find that a sleeping robot actually does make 658 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: you sleep better, or that by tracking your sleep you 659 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: are getting better sleep night after night, then by all 660 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: means you should do that just because thing may not 661 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: have scientific evidence to back it as being broadly applicable. 662 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: If it's working for you and you need that sleep, 663 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: and we all know you need that sleep, then you 664 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: know as they do it. Also, I mean, I've done 665 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: in a whole episode about a s m R. And 666 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: while I don't really know if there's any truly scientific 667 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: explanation for the a s m R phenomenon, I do 668 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,760 Speaker 1: find them incredibly relaxing and they do put me to sleep. 669 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 1: So I use that all the time. I use it 670 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: with my you know, critical thinking skills, but I still 671 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: enjoy them and they still put me to sleep. So 672 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: maybe I'll do another episode about a s m R 673 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: in the future and talk to another a s m 674 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: R artist, because that was a lot of fun that 675 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: last time. In the meantime, if you guys are still awake, 676 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: you haven't used this podcast to lull yourselves into a 677 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: deep sleep, why don't you contact me let me know 678 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: what kind of topics I should cover in the future, 679 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: whether they are technologies, companies, personalities in tech. Maybe there's 680 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: an interview that you would like me to do in 681 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: the future, let me know. You can go to our 682 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: website that is tech Stuff podcast dot com that has 683 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: links to all the ways to contact us, like email 684 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: and social media and all that kind of good stuff. 685 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: Make sure you go to our our store that's at 686 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: t public dot com slash tech Stuff. There you can 687 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: pick up tech stuff merchandise, and maybe you want a 688 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: big T shirt to sleep in. I'd like that because 689 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: every purchase you make goes to help the show. We 690 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: greatly appreciate it, and I'll talk to you again really 691 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: soon for more on this and bathands of other topics. 692 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: Is that how stuff works dot com