1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm stories with Nancy Grace on serious x M triumph. 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: Does it never end with this guy? Bill Cosby, convicted 3 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: of sex assault, is slung up at his multimillion dollar 4 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: brownstone with his private chef and all his lackey's fawning 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: over him. He has now actually insisted the Supreme Court 6 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: throw out a defamation case by a woman who claims 7 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: he raped her because she has exploited her celebrity status. 8 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: What I mean, I can't. If I if I wasn't 9 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: looking at my notes, I may not remember which one 10 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: of his assault victims she is. How can she be 11 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: exploiting her celebrity status? No? No, it never ends with 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: this guy. He's been convicted by a jury of a 13 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: violent sex assault and he's still out from behind bars, 14 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: living the good life. In fact, just recently he had 15 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: a party that was so loud cops were called to 16 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: tell him to quiet down. This is just wrong, I 17 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being 18 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: with us. I've tried plenty of rape cases, plenty of 19 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: rape cases, and when the jury said guilty and bam 20 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: the gavel comes down, that guy goes to jail. He 21 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: does not go back home. To his multimillion dollar brown stone, 22 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: with his private chef cooking up treats for him, surrounded 23 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: by yes guys throwing parties that the police have to 24 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: show up and quiet down. Why isn't he in jail? 25 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: And how dare he claim one of his assault victims 26 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: is exploiting her celebrity status. Maybe I've got my facts 27 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: wrong with me and Bremner, high profile lawyer out of 28 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: Seattle who is representing a Cosby victim, Cheryl McCullum, director 29 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, juvenile judge, lawyer and 30 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: founder of child Crime Watch dot com. Ashley Wilcott renew 31 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: New York psychologist Karen Stark and joining me right now. 32 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: Investigative reporter with Radar Online dot Com. Alexis Tourez check Alexis, 33 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: what do I have it backwards? I wish you did, 34 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: but no, you you haven't exactly right. This woman, Katherine McKee, 35 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: she was an actress. She was actually Sammy Davis Jr's girlfriend. 36 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: This is a woman who was well known on her 37 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: own was assault was well known? You know what? Of 38 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: course I know who's Sammy Davis Jr. It was I 39 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: know that. But if you strike a jury right now 40 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: with a bunch of millennials. They're not even gonna know 41 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: what you're talking about. They're not gonna know who the 42 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: rat pack was. They have no idea exploiting her celebrity 43 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: status because at one time, forty years ago, she dated 44 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: Sammy Davis Jr. Really, what is he saying, Alexis Bill 45 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: Cosby is saying that this woman extended her fifteen minutes 46 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: of fame because of him. He's saying that she even 47 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: interview about the attacks, which I think all maybe sixty 48 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: women gave interviews about Bill Cosby. She confirmed that, yes, 49 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: she was one of his victims. And he says because 50 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: of that, she has lost any right to sue him. 51 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: And so he's actually taking this all the way to 52 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. He has a nerve. He's got a 53 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: nerve that she's extending her fifteen moments of fame. You know, 54 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: I hardly think too. And Bremner, high profile Seattle lawyer 55 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: who was representing a Cosby attack victim, I hardly think 56 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: she wants to extend her fame by saying I was 57 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: raped by Bill Cosby, well exactly. And and the fact 58 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: that he's petitioning to the U s Supreme Court, and 59 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of a basically topsy turvy situation where he's 60 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: basically saying she's a public figure under the laws, therefore 61 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: there has to be proof of actual malice, and she's 62 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: a public figure because she used her quote unquote celebrity 63 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: status based on her you know, affiliation, so to speak 64 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: with him and what she said publicly, I mean, it's 65 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: just outrageous. And also we all we know that because 66 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: we have saw a lot of victims get around the 67 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: statue of limitations by using defamation as a claim, because 68 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: that's a more recent act, so to speak by him. 69 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: This is Cathy McKee as she describes her alleged rate 70 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: at the hands of Bill Cosby. Listen. I was on 71 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: the road with Sammy Davis at the time, and often 72 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: we would cross paths with incoming acts or outcoming they 73 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: need to believing, and we'd be coming in or we'd 74 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: be leaving closing and they'd be coming in and we 75 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: would hook up, you know, and sometimes go out to 76 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: dinner or hang out or whatever. So this is how 77 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: it happened. I was on the road with Sammy. We 78 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: were probably playing the Pine Knob Theater because we used 79 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: to come here and play that that that location Pine 80 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: Nabb and Uh. So I saw Bill. He was a friend. 81 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 1: I had been out many occasions with groups of people 82 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: with Bill to dinner. We'd run into each other in 83 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: New York or something. And that's why this was so 84 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: shocking and surprising when it happened to me, because we 85 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: didn't have that kind of relationship. We weren't we weren't 86 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: attracted to each other like that, And there was no 87 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: nothing like this. It wasn't about a sexual relationship. It 88 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: was just about friends that knew each other. And he 89 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: knew Sammy very well. So I was really shocked when 90 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: it happened. Really, Bill had I called him first, Um, 91 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: and he said, listen, why don't you come by and 92 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: take me to a party. There was a party on 93 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: a yacht that he was the guest of honor, I 94 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: would imagine, UM, and he wanted me to bring ribs. 95 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: There was a barbecue place back in the day in Detroit, 96 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: and so I said, okay, sure, I'll bring you some ribs. 97 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: You know, no problem. So I arrived at the hotel, 98 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: knocked on the door. Um. He opened the door. He 99 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: was wearing a robe and a hat cap and I 100 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: stepped in and he took the ribs out of my hand, 101 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: set them down on the table, shut the door, pulled 102 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: me to him, spun me around, and had his way 103 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: with me. Um. It was very quick and very fast, 104 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: and it wasn't even there was nothing enjoyable or pleasant 105 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: about it. Shall we say? I was shocked because I 106 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: had known him for such a long time and we 107 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:53,799 Speaker 1: had a friendly friendship relationship, and it stunned me. And 108 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: it happened quick fast, bada boom bada, bing over and out. 109 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: I pulled myself together, went into the powder room, you know, 110 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: straightened myself up, and Bill went and got dressed, came 111 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: back out and joined me, and we left. Come on, 112 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: let's go. We left. We went to get in the 113 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: car and go to this party, which I was driving 114 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: him because that's why I had come there, was to 115 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: pick him up. Um. So that's what happened the actual event. 116 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: After this had happened with Bill, he became like a 117 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: different person. This was not the same Bill Casby that 118 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: I had known all the years. It was like a different, 119 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: uh person emerged, a different personality. So the whole evening 120 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: was from that point on. Once he took me and 121 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: had his way with me. He changed his attitude changed up. 122 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: He got really moody and really dark, and he barely 123 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: spoke two words to me the rest of the evening. 124 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: And we went on this yacht where all these people were. 125 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: So I went and mingled with the people. I got 126 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: away from Bill, and as the evening went on, you know, 127 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: all I could do was just couldn't wait for this 128 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: boat to dock so I could get off and get 129 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: in my car and get the heck out of there. 130 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: That's all I wanted to do, was get away, because 131 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: it was clear that once it was as if Bill 132 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: had had to morphed into another person, an ugly person, 133 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: and it was just a very uncomfortable situation. I didn't 134 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: tell Sammy about it. I didn't figure that it was 135 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: anything that Sammy needed to know. He had a lot 136 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: of his own personal problems, and he had to do 137 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: his shows, and he had to deal with all kinds 138 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: of other stuff going on in his life. And I 139 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: really didn't tell anybody, um except I have a couple 140 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: of girlfriends in Los Angeles that I shared it with. 141 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: But I you know, it was very embarrassing what happened, 142 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: and how how he took advantage of me like that. Um, 143 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: and I always like to feel that I'm in control 144 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: and I have the power, and I'm a strong woman, 145 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: and so I didn't really find being a victim an 146 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: interesting tale to tell to anybody. He is known as 147 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: America's Dad, but funny guy Bill Cosby the target a 148 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: police investigations, prosecutions, but now he is the one claiming 149 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: it's all the victim's fault. You were hearing Kathy McKee 150 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: as she described her alleged rate at the hands of 151 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: Bill Cosby am Bremer high profiles. He had a lawyer 152 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: representing a Cosby victim. Is the same story over and 153 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: over and over. He shows up in his house robe 154 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: and bam, the next thing you know, the victim has 155 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: been attacked. Well. Absolutely, and we have to think that 156 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: there's a number of victims out there, including my client, 157 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: that have not said anything publicly and have a statute 158 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: of limitations issue unless they come into the arena with 159 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: the defamation case. Because we know every time there's a 160 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: lawsuit or public statement, he his lawyers and he strike back, 161 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: and that's how these cases are invited. But they're they're 162 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: all identical. Nancy, you know bath robes either is house 163 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: or someone else. He's giving them promises of fame and fortune. 164 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: He drugs them. You know, the only thing different in 165 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: my case is that he dumped my client out in 166 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: a terrible neighborhood and also offered to be a graduation 167 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: speaker to college and gave her money. But you know, 168 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: she was aspiring model, she was young, she trusted him. 169 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: He was America's dad. It's just the same story over 170 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: and over again. Now explain to me it looks as 171 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: to rest Chuck Investigative Reporter or the writar online dot 172 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: Com exactly what this most recent legal maneuver by Bill 173 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: Cosby is to me, is just another way to delay 174 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: him going to jail. This is a case that is 175 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: separate from his criminal case, and he is sentenced the 176 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: scheduled to be sentenced in September. But the thing is, 177 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: unlike everybody else, and you're the lawyer, I don't know. 178 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: I find that the cases that I've covered, people get 179 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: convicted of rate, they go right to jail. Not Bill Cosby. 180 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: The judge said, oh you can, we can wait, you know, 181 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: ninety days before I'm in a sentence. You so he 182 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: is not in jail. What he's doing. He has filed 183 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: with the Supreme Court. He has asked the Supreme Court 184 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: to throw out this woman's case. It has made it 185 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: all the way to Spreme Court. He's asking them to 186 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: consider it, asking him to throw it out. Because she 187 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: she persists she's not giving up. Every time he comes 188 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: back with his high power lawyers to try to shut 189 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: her case down, she still fights back because she wants justice. 190 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: She wants him to stop saying these bad things about her, 191 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: to say that that she's extending her fame because she is. 192 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: She feels that she's justified in her case. He's a 193 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: convicted rapist, and she wants him to stop talking badly 194 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: about her, and she wants him to admit what he's done. 195 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: And but he's using his attorneys to go all the 196 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: way to the Supreme Court, the United States Supreme Court, 197 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: where there are so many cases that are so important 198 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: across the nation, and he is he is saying that 199 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: she's using her celebrity to attack him. Well, she's no 200 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: longer a celebrity. I don't know that she would be 201 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: described as a celebrity even at the time when she 202 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: was dating Sammy Davis Jr. To CHERRYL. McCollum, director of 203 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, I'm going to you because 204 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: her sex assault case, allegedly at the hands of Bill Cosby, 205 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: would be a coal case. She says Cosby attacked her 206 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: in a Michigan hotel room in the seventies. She told 207 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: her story to the New York Daily News in two 208 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen. She then files a defamation lawsuit against Cosby. 209 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: Defamation is either libel, which is a written lie about you, 210 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: or slander, which is an oral when you just speak 211 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: the lie about someone. And so she says Cosby defamed 212 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: her by calling her a liar. Okay, Now Cosby is 213 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: demanding the case be dismissed because she was exploiting her 214 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: celebrity status. I don't know if that's even a reason 215 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: to have a case dismissed. But she's mr statute of limitations. 216 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: She cannot prosecute him for rape now, but by him 217 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: calling her a lawyer, she can't go after him for defamation. Absolutely, Nancy, 218 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: Mr Cosby is worried about the wrong thing. First of all, 219 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: maybe the first thirty victims, we're trying to get some celebrity. 220 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: But now you're pulling the oldest defense in the book. 221 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: Let's play the victim. Okay, maybe Nick, he'll pull out 222 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: you know, she wanted it, or she asked for it 223 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: by the way she was dressed, or she wanted me 224 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: so bad she came to my hotel room. Really, this 225 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: is what you're talking about. Let me tell you something. 226 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: Whatever happened in that hotel room. Here's what's key to me. 227 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: She knows what hotel rooms. She knows what date and 228 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: time Bill Cosby was at a certain location. How would 229 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: she possibly know that pretty good memory, and not only that, 230 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: the other details. And do you ask she Wilcott found 231 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: her a child crime watch dot Com judge and lawyer 232 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: or Ashley. When you are corroborating somebody's testimony, okay, and 233 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: you don't have semen, you don't have a quote blue 234 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: dress like Monica Lewinsky had, You don't have uh beating 235 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: with bruises and cuts and eyewitnesses and d NA. You 236 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: corroborate anyway you can, like Cheryl McCullum is saying, for instance, 237 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: she had the date correct, she had the location correct, 238 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: that hotel, that event, that barbecue dinner. Why she was 239 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: in the hotel room that he came to the door 240 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,479 Speaker 1: in a house rood. That's what all the victims say. 241 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: That his m O was the same as it has 242 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: been with all these other people. And to me, that 243 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: corroborates her story to a large degree. Ashley, it does 244 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: because the details. But the other important piece to note 245 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: is she has spoken about with the incident more than 246 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: once and she has been consistent with all of those details. 247 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: And that is a telltale sign that she's being honest 248 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: and truthful and not forgetting what she's lied about. It's 249 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: exactly what happened, and she's been consistent in telling that story. Nancy, 250 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: can I just say one more thing about the attorneys 251 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: for Bill Cosby. Here's what they're trying to do. The 252 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: reason they're trying to say it's her fame. They want 253 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: to depict her as a public figure. And here's why. 254 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: If you look at the body of case law out 255 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: there that have been decided by courts, it generally says 256 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: or indicates that public figures have a harder time winning 257 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: defamation cases because often courts view it view those who 258 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: are public figures as having voluntary ex voluntarily accepted a 259 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: higher risk and so they therefore it's harder for them 260 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: to win defamation because they put themselves out there. I 261 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: don't agree with it in this case at all, but 262 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: that's exactly why his lawyers are trying to hang their 263 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: hat on. Oh, she's a public figure, which she no 264 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: longer is. By the way, take a listen again to 265 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: what Kathy McKee says happened to her in a hotel 266 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: room along with Bill Cosby. So I arrived at the hotel, 267 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: knocked on the door. Um, he opened the door. He 268 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: was wearing a robe and a hat cap. And I 269 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: stepped in and he took the ribs out of my hand, 270 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: set them down on the table, shut the door, pulled 271 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: me to him, spun me around and had his way 272 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: with me. Um. It was very quick and very fast, 273 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: and it wasn't even there was nothing enjoyable or pleasant 274 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: about it. Shall we say? I was shocked because I 275 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: had known him for such a long time and we 276 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: had a friendly friendship relationship, and it stunned me. And 277 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: it happened quick fast, bada boom bada, being over and out. 278 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: I pulled myself together, went into the powder room, you know, 279 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: straightened myself up, and Bill went and got dressed, came 280 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: back out and join me in. We left, Come on, 281 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: let's go. We left. We went to get in the car. 282 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: You know what, it is so hard to work cold cases. 283 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: I know I have worked them myself, especially when you 284 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: know your co workers and colleagues have already worked the case. 285 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: But there's a former prosecutor named Kelly Siegler who was 286 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: a true champion for justice, and she is on a 287 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: mission across America. What I love about Oxygen's Cold Justice 288 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: program is that Kelly and her team of detectives take 289 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: on real unsolved murder cases and get real answers for 290 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: victims and their families. You will love how immersive this 291 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 1: show is. You feel like you're right there with the 292 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: team writing Shotgun. They are passionate crusaders for justice and 293 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: I like that. That's what makes each case so personal 294 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: to this team. Watch the new season of Cold Justice Saturday, 295 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: six m Eastern, five Central on Oxygen. Disgrace Comedian America's Dad, 296 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 1: so called America's Dad, Bill Cosby, He just never stops 297 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: Now he is demanding the Supreme Court throughout a defamation 298 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: case filed by a woman who says he raped her. 299 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: He he Cosby is claiming she the alleged victim is 300 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: exploiting her celebrity stats. I guess the next thing he's 301 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: going to claim the same thing about Janice Dickinson. Everybody 302 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: knows Janice Dickinson. She's had reality shows before that. She 303 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: was America's first quote supermodel. Listen, I remember being humiliated, 304 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: disgusted rule what was I had revulsion towards Cosby and 305 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: Cosby was a very powerful man and probably still is. 306 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: You know, I trusted this man and I stuffed it. 307 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: I compart mentalized it because I was embarrassed. And at 308 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: what point did you find yourself alone with Mr Cosby? 309 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: You trusted him, but then things went in a different 310 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: direction in your view, Mr Gardner Stu Gardner left the 311 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: dinner table. I was alone with him and I had 312 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: mental cramps. I had menstal my, you know, stomach cramps. 313 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: He said, oh, I've got something for that, and he 314 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: gave me a pill. And did you ask what it was? 315 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: I don't remember that. I don't remember. But if he's 316 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: giving me a pill, I trust the guy. I trusted 317 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: Bill Cosby, so he gave me. Did you feel like 318 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: you trusted him because of his demeanor and the promise 319 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: of a career, and you know, I trusted him. I 320 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: was I wanted a television career. I always had. I 321 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: had had a successful career for commercials. I wanted to 322 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: take it to the next level. And at the same time, 323 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: though you were telling me you're in rehab, you were 324 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: still very fragile. He offered you wine. That was a 325 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: no no in your view, But now he offers you 326 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: a pill, and you still trust him. It was red wine. 327 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: It was a pill. And then when I started to 328 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: black out, I had a polaroid camera on me. That's 329 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: when I took several photographs with with a polaroid when 330 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: I had one of the first polaroid cameras, And you know, 331 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: I just remembered shooting these pictures and having them on 332 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: me in my room the next morning when I woke up. 333 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: The last thing I remember I was I blacked out 334 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 1: and Cosby mounting me like the monster that he was, 335 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: and I was thinking, what the heck? What the and 336 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: I just remember passing up. But I remember more specifically 337 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: waking up and that he there was a lot of 338 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 1: pain in downstairs, there a semen all over me, and 339 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: that my majama's bottoms were off and the top was opened, 340 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: and I at that point fight or flight. I just 341 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: packed up and I got the hell out of there. 342 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: What do you want from Bill Cosby right now? What 343 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: do you need to hear from him? What does he 344 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: need to do? I would like cause me to come 345 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,479 Speaker 1: out and at least acknowledge that he is a pig, 346 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: that he is a monster, and he he has raped me. 347 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, pleasure Ms Freddy Rick, thank you, 348 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: thank you, all right, thank you. I know it's tough. 349 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, just apologized. I don't know how to process. 350 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: I do not know how to process these emotions. You know, 351 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I'm going to meditate, I'm gonna 352 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: go to church. I do not know. This is affectively 353 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: in my house. It's affecting me, and it has really 354 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: affected these women. To Alexis Torres Chuck, investigative reporter, writer 355 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: online dot Com, Janice Dickinson's report, her account of what happened, 356 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: like so many other of his victims, now allegedly sixty 357 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: she's a supermodel? Is that the next claim to try 358 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: to silence her as well? Alexis absolutely Bill Cosby has 359 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: been fighting Jannis Dickinson from day one saying that she's 360 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: to faming him, but she is not backing down. None 361 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: of these women are backing down. That that's the great thing. 362 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: They're also empowered by his guilty verdict. That and maybe 363 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: even if you had been found not guilty, they would 364 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: still be fighting that. Kaptain Mcki, Jannis Dixonson. They are 365 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: not letting Bill Cosby win. He can take all the 366 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: way to the Supreme Court. They don't care. They're going 367 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: to fight back against him because they feel like that 368 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: the mask is off and everybody knows what Bill Cosby is. 369 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: That he's a predator, rapist. He did this for decades 370 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: but half a cent treat fifty years, and they want 371 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: justice and they're not going to be bullied by him 372 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: anymore or his attorneys. And so they're gonna go all 373 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: the way to the Supreme Court and and fight and say, 374 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: you know, he's saying that I'm using my fifteen minutes 375 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: of fame. I'm not. I'm just trying to get justice 376 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: and I want him to stop maligning my character, you know, 377 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: to Sheryl McCollum, I'm trying to determine what's the hold 378 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: up in him going to jail, right now again, I've 379 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: never seen somebody get convicted of rape and then walk 380 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: out of the courtroom back to their home. How how 381 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: did that happen? And what's going to happen next? If anything, 382 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: if anything, is because of his celebrity. He's going to 383 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: give you time to get his affairs in order before 384 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: he goes to prisban. But Nancy, I just want to 385 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: say one thing. It ain't slander if it's true, these 386 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: women are not back and down because they're telling the truth, 387 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: okay to you as you will caught way in. I 388 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: absolutely agree, And I think at some point all of 389 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: these lawsuits that Bill Cosby insists sunken genuine becomes a 390 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. We have heard what he says, but 391 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: it's far outweighed by the many, many victims and what 392 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: they've had to say to Alexis Torres Chuck. The same 393 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: issue is happening with Janice Dickinson Um. She is suing 394 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: him now. Of course the statue of limitations on rape 395 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: is long past, but she also is suing him because 396 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: he said she quote fabricated her rape story. So it's 397 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: the same thing. He's using his pitbull lawyers to attack 398 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: her even though she claims she was drugged and raped 399 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: by Cosby, he calls her a liar. Now she's suing 400 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: him for defamation. She isn't, and she's been pretty successful 401 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: so far. She her case is still being heard. But 402 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: he is using he's attacking her. He's trying to attack 403 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: her this same way he physically attacked her all those 404 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: years ago, allegedly, he attacking her now through the court system. 405 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: And he's trying to say, you know, she wrote a 406 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: book Jannis did and she didn't mention the rate. But 407 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: she says, now, look, I was trying to write a 408 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: book that was entertaining. Yes it was a you know, 409 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: an autobiography, but we had to have some juicy parts 410 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: to it. And she said, I had to cover it up. 411 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: My lawyers, the lawyers in the publishing house wouldn't let 412 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: me do it back then. But now I am not 413 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: back down. And he's saying she's lying, she's making this up, 414 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: she's slavery. So Karen Start NewYork psychologist, is to in 415 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: my mind, this is just another way to silence, right victims, 416 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: It's another way to silence. Then he's just trying to 417 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: use his celebrity and the way that he used his 418 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: celebrity to entice these women. Now he's claiming he's turning 419 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: the whole thing around and saying they're using their celebrity 420 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: to try and trap him. I also want to mention 421 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: Nancy that it's very telling in each story that they 422 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: don't come forward, and I wanted to explain that the 423 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: reason that they don't come forward at the time is shame, embarrassment, 424 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: and shock, and that is not unusual if it's such 425 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: a devastating attack on their well being, on their personhood, 426 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: that they just don't feel good enough to be able 427 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: to report it, especially a famous man like this, you know, 428 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: Sheryl McCall him another tactic that he's using to try 429 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: to stay out of jail. He is now challenging the 430 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: sex predator law. He of course, has been recommended by 431 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: the state in sentencing to be treated as a sex 432 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: offender a UM, and it's under statute when you are 433 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: treated as a quote classified sex offender, that means your 434 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: sentence is going to be different. You've got to receive 435 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: sex offender counseling. You'll be classified differently when you're sentenced. 436 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: He is now claiming that the sex predator classification is unconstitutional. 437 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: He's a he's a lord Nathy. He doesn't want to 438 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: have to when he does get out, you know, report 439 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: where he lives, and he doesn't want to be restrictive 440 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: that he can't live near a park and all that 441 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,239 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. He's full of craft, period. And what 442 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: he's doing with these women to me is he's using 443 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: the court system to intimidate a witness. That's what he's 444 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: doing and simple. He is claiming Ashley Wilcott that the 445 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: state's revise sex Offended Registry law is unconstitutional and should 446 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: not apply to him. He's different, he's special. Well, yeah, 447 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: that's the problem. Right. So there have been other challenges 448 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: to state sex predator reports where you have to be 449 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: reported as one, but that's not this case. This case, 450 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: he's doing everything he can. He's bullying. He's bullying to 451 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: say I'm right, everybody else is wrong, and I'm gonna 452 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: spend as much money as i have to to try 453 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: to allege every single thing I hand to get out 454 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: of this. Take a listen again to supermodel Janice Dickinson. 455 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: I can't breathe because of Bill Cosby. What do you 456 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: mean I can't breathe? Because I haven't slept in weeks, 457 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I just you know, you know, 458 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: with everything that's going on, I haven't been able to breathe. 459 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: Like the whole nation is doing right now protesting, I 460 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: am protesting because of the unresolved issues due to rape 461 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: from Bill Cosby. I'm just starting to exhale. And and 462 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: I will say this, You know I I saw all weekend, 463 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: not just for me, for what's going on with these 464 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: other women. That's Janice Dickinson, who spoke to me and 465 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: described Cosby's attack on her how it still affects her 466 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: life to this day. Once again, she's under attacked my 467 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: car Osby claiming that he did not defame her. Now 468 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: he's challenging the course decision to classify him as a 469 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: sexually violent predator. What sixty women victims allegedly not enough. 470 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: We'll see where it goes. But you know, when you 471 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: don't know a horse, look at his track record. We 472 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: don't know where the case is going to. Look where 473 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: it's gone. He's still walking free. What does that say 474 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: about our justice system and the judge? You'll let him 475 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: remain on bond. Take a listen to this. And I 476 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: went up to his hotel and I was alone, and 477 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: he talked about, let me see what type of acting 478 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: skills you have. I want you to improv. And as 479 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: I tried to do improv, he fixed a drink and 480 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: then he brought it to me. It was a brown 481 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: liquid and it looked like a shot. I told him 482 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: I didn't drink. He said that this was going to 483 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: relax me so that the lines would flow out a 484 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: lot easier. So I did drink it. He made a 485 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: second drink and add me drink the second drink as well. 486 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: I noticed myself getting a little dizzy. Bill had sat 487 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: down on the edge of the couch. He said, come 488 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,719 Speaker 1: over here and have a seat. He had his legs open, 489 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,479 Speaker 1: and when I sat down, I was sitting down in 490 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: between his legs with my back to his crotch. He 491 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: started to stroke my hair back in a petting motion 492 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: like this. The last things I remember is just feeling 493 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: the strokes on my head. After that, I don't remember 494 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: anything else. People think Carla, oh, this Andrew Constance, she's 495 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: out for money, or this one she was like, um, 496 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: what was she a model or an actress? Like that's 497 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: like a witch. In the time of the sale, and 498 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: witch hunts. But when they put people put a face 499 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: to a name of somebody they kind of know, it 500 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: changes everything. M hm. I just want to kick it 501 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: off like this. When did you me Bill Cosby? Well, 502 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: I was It was nineteen sixties seven, I was eighteen 503 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: years old. Don't do the math, but it was. Um. 504 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: I was on a date with someone who asked me 505 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: to dinner, who seems like a very nice man in 506 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: the show business. It was in the music business, actually, 507 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: and he asked me to dinner. I went, and he said, 508 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: we went to dinner, We had a lovely evening, and 509 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: then he said, would you like to go with me 510 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: to my best friend's house, which is is Bill Cosby? 511 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: And I didn't have anything to do my I'd broken 512 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: up with my boyfriend. I didn't have to worry about 513 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: where I was going or whatever. And I said, well, okay, yeah, 514 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: all right. I didn't know. I knew Bill Cosby had 515 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: a show. I never watched the show. I knew nothing 516 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: really about him at all. And I certainly didn't go 517 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: there because he was a celebrity. I went because I 518 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: was having a nice time with my date. So he 519 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: took me over to his house in Beverly Hill and 520 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: he Bill was so nice. He answered the door. Him 521 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: and his wife stood right by the door, Camille, I'll 522 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: never forget her name. And we we were standing by 523 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: the door just talking. We were introduced, and he said, 524 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: let's go to a movie. What do you think So 525 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: I said, okay, it sounded like fun to me. I 526 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: was eighteen years old. I just wanted to have fun. 527 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: So I went to the movies with them. There was 528 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: my was my date, Bill, Camille and I and we 529 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 1: had cracker Jack's and we laughed and he played and 530 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: he was He acted like he was playing with a 531 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: child with me as I did not sit. I sat 532 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: down and he sat next to me on the far left. 533 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: My date was next to me and his wife was 534 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: way on the other end. But we had a really 535 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: fun time and then we he decided, you know, my 536 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: the movie was over. We were in Westwood. Movie was over, 537 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: and he said, my date said to me, would you 538 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: like to go back to Bills and play pool. I 539 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: was the pool bunny at the Playboy Club at eighteen. 540 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: Can you believe this? So? Um yeah, yeah, So I said, oh, okay, 541 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, we'll do that. I mean, they all 542 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: seemed so nice. Why wouldn't I want to to do this? 543 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: So I said, okay, I will. So we went to 544 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: his house and the first thing he did was he 545 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: walked in. He took me into the pool. We all 546 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: went to the pool room and I said. He said 547 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: to me, would you like a cocktail? And I said no, 548 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: I don't drink and he said, okay, um, well would 549 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: you like some water? And I said no, I'm just fine. 550 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: And so that's how I met him. Yeah, do you 551 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: want to hear some more about what happened that night? Well, 552 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: I just I played. They what he did. Bill had 553 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: this idea that it would be fun. He played with 554 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: my with my date, and then whoever won could play 555 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: with me and we're getting on around. The game was 556 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: it was just a game of pool. Yeah, we were 557 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: playing pool, and so he he played first with my 558 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: date and then guess who won? Bill? And he said, okay, 559 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: well now I play with Carla. Now it's getting on 560 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,959 Speaker 1: to be around midnight. It's getting late. And I picked 561 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: up the pools Q and I'm I'm playing and I 562 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: suddenly I looked up and I said, where where did 563 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: your wife go? And he goes, oh, I she probably 564 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: went to bed. I said, oh, okay, and then I 565 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,919 Speaker 1: then I play. I shot another thing, and I'm doing 566 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: good at this game. And then I looked up and 567 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: I go, well, where's my date? And he goes, oh, 568 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. He probably went to the bathroom or something. 569 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: And so he played the game. We did it. He 570 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: beat me, and I took my my my my pool 571 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: queue and with my back was to him, and I 572 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: turned around and I put it on the table and 573 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: when I turned back around, he lunched me. He just 574 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: lunched right, I mean, just on me. He jumped me, 575 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: and I was in shock, and I I pushed him, 576 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: like with all the strength I had. I tried, and 577 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: then he grabbed me and he kissed me right in 578 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: the mouth, and I just I kicked. I pushed away 579 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: from him and I got away from it, and I 580 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: was like, oh, and I mean it was it was 581 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: so awful. And then I looked up and those eyes 582 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: that he looked, he looked like the devil. He didn't 583 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: look like the fun, happy guy anymore. He looked like 584 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: the devil. And I said, I for a second, I 585 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: go I just I sat there for a second and 586 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: I looked at him, and I was I was a 587 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: tough girl. I grew up, but in those days, I 588 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: was at half street girl. I knew how to take 589 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: care of myself, and men were always trying to molest 590 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 1: me my whole life, ever since I was like five 591 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: years old. Said I always got away. So I I 592 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: took I started running down the hallway. He lived in 593 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: a very large house on the flats of Beverly Hills. 594 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: And I went running down the hallway and just as 595 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: I'm running down the hallway, who comes out of a 596 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: door my date. So I looked at my date and 597 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: I said, I'm leaving. I want you to take me 598 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: home now, right now. And he did and I I 599 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: never even talked to him about it. I just went 600 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: completely silent, got in the car, he took me and 601 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: dropped me off and that was that. So that was 602 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: my experience. And I got away. And out of the 603 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: supposedly sixty five women that have come forward or or 604 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how many, I think it was that, 605 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: but they they I just I just got away. There 606 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: was no way. And the reason I got away was 607 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: because I didn't I didn't drink anything. It was one 608 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: of the main main reasons that I made it through this. 609 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: You know what you say that the reason you got 610 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: away is because you didn't drink anything? What do you 611 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: mean by that, Carla? What what I meant by that 612 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: was is that I didn't drink alcohol. My I came 613 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 1: from my family of alcoholics, and I didn't live like that. 614 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't drink, I wouldn't do drugs. I was totally clean. 615 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: I didn't have sex with men. I was a young 616 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: girl and but tough, and I could take care of myself. 617 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: And he didn't give me anything that would have done 618 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: what I've heard happened without these other women. I mean 619 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: I was. I was on date line with twenty seven 620 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: women for eight hours and all of us crying our 621 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: hearts out. Just their stories were so tragic and ruined 622 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,280 Speaker 1: so many lives. And I was the one who got away. 623 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: I do. I don't think anybody else got away, even 624 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: even Beverly Johnson. She had to fight him off because 625 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: he had given her drugs. You know what's interesting that 626 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: Camille was there, and you know what, God bless her, 627 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: you know, she she I don't know what to think 628 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: about that, what she must I don't feel like that 629 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 1: about her at all. I don't know what I don't 630 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what to think. But this is what 631 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: I'm hearing from you. She's down there and just disappears 632 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: when you have guests over, even if you're saying, look, guys, 633 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: you're staying up to light for me, I'm gonna go 634 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: to bed and night, thank you for coming, she just 635 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: disappeared like your date. That's right. And you know what 636 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: was really really tragic was that when I I was 637 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: when I was on date Line, I that woman that 638 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: was the host. I don't even remember who she was, 639 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: but I've never seen her before and I haven't seen 640 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: her since. But anyway, she would not let me talk. 641 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: Out of all the women I got to set in 642 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: the front row, but I wasn't allowed to talk. She 643 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: would not listen to anything I said. So by the 644 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: end of the show, after eight hours, we were all 645 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: exhausted and I said to her, I said, I'm going 646 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: to talk, and she said, oh no. She said, what 647 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: do you think about as she asked the whole group, 648 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: what do you think about his life? And I raised 649 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: my hand and I said, I'm going to talk now. 650 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to ask a question. That's all 651 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: I want to do is ask one question. The question 652 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: is to this, to to everybody, how many of you 653 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: would let your husband stay with it at midnight with 654 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: a young pretty girl. And every one of them said, 655 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: none of us. I mean, they were all like, no, 656 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: we wouldn't know. It caused the whole big stir, But 657 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: it was right. You're right. I hadn't thought of it 658 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: that way. I've just been thinking about her in the 659 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: context of, Wow, she's been married to this guy that 660 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: has had so many affairs, slept with so many people, 661 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: and now we learned forced himself on so many people, 662 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: and it must be horrible in humiliating. But when I 663 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: hear you say it like that, it puts it in 664 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: a whole another light. Nancy listened to this one. Here's 665 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: what I was thinking of. I was thinking. I was 666 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: trying to think back on the women and what one 667 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: in particular that I liked so much, and she and 668 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: I spent some time together. She was a young, beautiful model, 669 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: and she was up. You know, you may have known 670 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: who she was or who I didn't, but when I 671 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: met her, it was it was a lovely time because 672 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: she I was trying to think of what it would 673 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: have been like to be her. He called her on 674 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: a Christmas at at Christmas and said, can you fly 675 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: here to Connecticut to be with my family for Christmas 676 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: and me? And she gets there and she's at the 677 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: dinner table with all of his children and his wife, 678 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: and and then she would go out to the guest 679 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: room where she was staying into the had a different 680 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 1: little place in the back. And apparently he was coming 681 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: back there like two nights in a road to have 682 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: sex with her and raping her. Now can you imagine 683 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,479 Speaker 1: she's invited as a guest, I mean after the first time, 684 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: I don't know why she could talking about your talking 685 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: about Certa Butterfield, she was a playmate, a model, And 686 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: she recounting how Cosby invited her to his country guest 687 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: country house and she's in the guesthouse yards from his wife, 688 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: and she kept saying, your family is here, don't do this, 689 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: your family is here. Yep. And what was his wife doing? 690 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: What was she thinking? She's not he's not in bed 691 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,919 Speaker 1: with her, she's not where is he at? They two 692 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: could have been twelve one to whatever, but he wasn't there. 693 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: So was it she thinking of anything like this? Like? 694 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: And what was that girl doing to at the right. 695 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: What was she doing? I mean, really think about it. 696 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: What was she doing there except that Bill brought her 697 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: there to to abuse her? And what did the family 698 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: think she was doing there? I mean, what did his 699 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: wife think? She she knew, That's why, because she knew 700 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: what he was doing, and it was all she just 701 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: went along with it. I don't know. If it was 702 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: the lifestyle, I don't know, if it was her her um. 703 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: Maybe it was the way she grew up. Maybe she 704 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 1: was molested and didn't think much of it. I don't know, 705 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: but something there was. They All I know is that 706 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: they knew. She knew everything that was going on. Listen, 707 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: I've been married thirty eight years. I know what my 708 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: husband does all the time, and I make sure I know. Carla, 709 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: what took you so long to tell your husband what happened? Well, 710 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: you know what, I never told my husband. A lot 711 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: of things I didn't tell my husband, or my mother, 712 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:10,439 Speaker 1: or my sister's or anybody else. When the people since 713 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: I was five tried to molest me. I was on 714 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: a train. A man, he was one of the conductors 715 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: or whatever he was on that train. I mean, he 716 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: tried to put his hands in my panties when I 717 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: was asleep on the train, and I knew. I knew 718 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: my mother. Oh, at five years old, I knew my mother. 719 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,760 Speaker 1: My mother would have killed him. And I never told 720 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: her ever in her life did I tell her that story. 721 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: I knew that if I told him her like I 722 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: kept turning over and moving and making sure that he 723 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: didn't get close to me, and he finally went away. 724 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: But I knew that if I told my mother, she 725 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 1: would kill him. She was a violent woman. She was 726 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 1: tough and hard as nails, and I knew she would 727 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: kill him. What took you so long to tell this? O? 728 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: This very common some sometimes, but that sex attack victims 729 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: never tell it. Well, I didn't want it. I did that. 730 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: I didn't, you know what was me? It was so 731 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: many people this happened with that I had no desire 732 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: to talk about it. I didn't There was nothing I 733 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,399 Speaker 1: wanted to say, so I just I let it go. 734 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 1: You know, the truth is, I never even thought about 735 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,439 Speaker 1: it all through those years, except when I met Lou 736 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: and we went to some events and I saw him 737 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 1: come in and at one of the celebrity event and 738 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,399 Speaker 1: I just said, I want to stay on the other 739 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: side of the room. That's the only thing I said, 740 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,439 Speaker 1: and that was probably an eight. And I never told 741 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: anybody yet. I didn't tell that story until nineteen. It 742 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: was nineteen, it was it's two thousand and five was 743 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,240 Speaker 1: when I finally told. And that was because I saw 744 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: that Bill Cosby had done this with the girl. And 745 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: it's this one. I think it is too, the one 746 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: that that, yeah, it is, it's her that when it 747 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: came out, and then she got she got she she 748 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,320 Speaker 1: got money from him. He gave her money for it, 749 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: and that's when he said that. Oh. I remember, with 750 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: all the stuff that went on, I didn't tell anything 751 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: to anybody until I told lou and that And I 752 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: said to him, I told him, and he looked at 753 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: me and he just went uh huh, and he walked away. 754 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: He cannot stand to hear anything bad about me. I 755 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 1: gotta tell you something I'm gonna I can't quite verbalize it, 756 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: but crime victims, violent crime victims, sex crime victims, MHM 757 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,760 Speaker 1: can go their whole life and never tell anybody what happened. 758 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,840 Speaker 1: You don't want to think about it. It's it's so 759 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,919 Speaker 1: upsetting you don't want to rethink the details. You want 760 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,800 Speaker 1: to forget it, you want to pretend it never happened. 761 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: It's painful, it's upsetting, and when you think about it 762 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: and have to talk about it, it's like it's happened 763 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 1: all over again. And it can mess your head up 764 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: for who knows how long and throw you into a 765 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: depression that you can't get out of. And I know 766 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about on this, Oh I know, I 767 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: know you do. And I really can't describe it. And 768 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: people like grars um uh, defense lawyers, other people that 769 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,400 Speaker 1: are not in the business or have not been a 770 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: victim or a sex mosstation victim. It does I get it. 771 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that you 772 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: don't talk about it or tell anybody about it. But 773 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 1: it's embarrassing. It's such a personal thing. It's just I 774 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,839 Speaker 1: just don't want to talk about it. No, I never 775 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: I never wanted to. There was nothing to talk about. 776 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: And then as the years went by, and all this 777 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: stuff happened to me over and over with different men 778 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: and places I worked and things like that. But but 779 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,800 Speaker 1: the what what got it for me was when I 780 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,279 Speaker 1: heard about this woman, I I thought, oh my god, 781 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: I've got to tell somebody, and I told Lou and 782 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: I never told another person, not until what three years 783 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,439 Speaker 1: ago now, when those two women came out and were 784 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,040 Speaker 1: crying on John and Kin's show. They were crying their 785 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,360 Speaker 1: hearts out, and I've that that that's what did it 786 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 1: for me. I said, that's it. I am going to 787 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: call somebody. I have to talk about this. Lou was 788 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: out of town. I'm like, I've got to talk because 789 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,279 Speaker 1: I've got to help these women because I knew right 790 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: that second that what I was hearing from them, nobody 791 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 1: would ever believe it. You never. You know what's upsetting 792 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:57,160 Speaker 1: with me is Karla frig No. No No, who was I 793 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:03,720 Speaker 1: think well of the early on victims of Bill Cosby. 794 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 1: You know what that is so disheartening about this, This 795 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: with Andrew Constant, maybe the only criminal prosecution that will 796 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: ever be because which time has passed and if it 797 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,000 Speaker 1: doesn't happen now, it will never happen, and he will 798 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: go free. It's just that simple. It's heartbreaking. You know 799 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,880 Speaker 1: what I'm praying for tonight. I am praying for a 800 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: true verdict, a verdict that speaks the truth, whether they 801 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,320 Speaker 1: give him jail time, whether God forbid they give him probation, 802 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 1: whether his wife ever knows the truth or admits the truth. 803 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: I want a verdict that speaks the truth to give 804 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 1: peace to all the women that I believe we're victims 805 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: of Bill Cosby. That's what I'm praying for. Carla Ferrigno, 806 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: thank you. We are watching as this unfolds. Nancy Grace 807 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories, signing off good bye friend ye