1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: and today on the show Happy Valentine's Day. Today we're 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: talking gift giving for romance. 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 2: All the boxes of chocolates and dead. 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: Flies that animals give each other to woo their crush. 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Discover this and more as we answer the age old 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: question is cyanide a. Girl's best friend joining me today 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: is economist and professional at being my husband, Brett mccaullay. 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 3: Welcome, Hey, honey. 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Hi, Hi honey, thanks for coming all the way upstairs 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: to be on this podcast. 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me all the way upstairs. 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: I felt like a really good Valentine's Day gift to 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: you is to make you perform free labor on my podcast. 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 3: That's fair. 17 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: Not only is this an episode about, you know, romantic 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: gift giving, which is a huge hint to you, by 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: the way, because anyways, just pay attention to the lessons 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: and themes in this episode, but it is you know, 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: you are an economist, and this is sort of about 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: the dark side of gift giving, the idea that gift 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: giving is not always done just out of the pureness 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: and goodness of your heart, which you know. I guess like, 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: if you're very cynical about Valentine's Day, you might feel 26 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: the same way where people are giving gifts to each other, 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: but you might think it is just sort of all 28 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: superficial in order to kind of play into some sort 29 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: of mass market on Valentine's Day. But I don't know 30 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: what is your opinion of gift giving on Valentine's Day? 31 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: And think extremely carefully before you answer this. 32 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool, I dig it. But I can also 33 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: tell you what the economics community thinks of gift giving. 34 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm very interested to hear. 35 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: Well. So there's there's a couple of different views. And 36 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: and really even you mentioned the dark side of gift giving, 37 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: it's kind of that is maybe the mainstream view, at 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 3: least for some. Here's a quote from Joel Waldfogel, who 39 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 3: wrote about the dead weight loss of Christmas. He says 40 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 3: that buying gifts typically destroys value and can only in 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: the unlikely best special case, be as good as giving cash. Wow, 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 3: So actually my community is telling me to give you 43 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 3: cash for Valentine today. So I hope you're you're excited 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: for some cash. 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: No fat stacks of cash. I'll never say no to 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: fat sacks of cash. 47 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: You know this well enough. But I think even more 48 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 2: than that. 49 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: I would like fat stacks of dead flies and other 50 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: to try to us. So we are talking about nuptial 51 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: gifts today, which I feel like is very you know again, 52 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: just pay attention to all the lessons that are to 53 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: be learned from this. 54 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 3: Like dead flies. 55 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: Uh yeah, dead flies? 56 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: Is that why you allow all the spider webs to 57 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: remain here? 58 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: This is a this is unfair. 59 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: This is a cheap shot because he gets to actually 60 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: be in my recording studio. Normally, the guests get a 61 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: very specific view of my recording studio through zoom, and 62 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: he gets to see all the spider webs up ahead 63 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: and dead flies being collected in them. It's actually really 64 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: fun though, because sometimes I get to see them catch 65 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: a fly and it's like free, free entertainment, free theater. 66 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: So this is my advice to you do not clean 67 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: up your spider webs. Keep them there, and then you've 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: got twenty four to seven WWEE spider wrestling that you 69 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: can watch. But yeah, anyway, so we are talking about 70 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: nuptial gifts. So nuptial gifts are given by a variety 71 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: of insects and arthropods to their mate, generally by a 72 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: male to the female. Sorry that arthropods are indeed sexist, 73 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: but the point is to help increase the success of copulation, 74 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: either by encouraging the female to mate or giving her 75 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: more patience to sit around while the male does this thing, 76 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: or so she doesn't attack the male. Less number one. 77 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 3: Okay, so you're saying you might attack me if I 78 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 3: don't give you no, of course. 79 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: Not anyways, there are different types of nuptial gifts that 80 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: vary by species. So some give dead insects like I mentioned. 81 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,239 Speaker 1: Some even give dead insects wrapped in silk. Gift wrapping 82 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: very important. Less number two. Some give globs of nutritional saliva. 83 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 2: No comment. 84 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: Some give a spermatophor, which is basically a sperm packet. 85 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: So inside the sperm packet is sperm, but the envelope 86 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: is actually edible and nutritional. I'm I don't I don't 87 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: want any comments from you right now. So the male 88 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: attaches the spermataphor to the female's genitals and the female 89 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: eats the envelope while the sperm is essentially turkey base 90 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: basted into her genital opening. 91 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: You know, well, you know, I. 92 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: Mean these are these are insects. They don't they don't 93 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: have our sense of you know, romance, especially so some insects, 94 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: such as tree crickets, directly consume nutritional secretions that the 95 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: male provides on his back during copulation. 96 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: What what didn't you like? Did you not like the. 97 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: Word nutritional secretions or was it the word tree crickets? 98 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 3: No, tree crickets is fine, but everything else that you 99 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 3: just said was pretty distasteful. I mean, way to get 100 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: us into the mood for Valentine's Day. 101 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: I feel like I think on our first date, I 102 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: started talking to you about parasites, so you knew what you. 103 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: Were getting into. 104 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 3: You can't that's fair. 105 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: You can't say falsely advertised what this was going to 106 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: be like for the rest of your life. 107 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: By the way, to the audience, it really is Valentine's Day, 108 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 3: Like this is a going to rest this episode out 109 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 3: and then you know, so we are this is our celebration. 110 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's uh. I literally dragged him up here Valentine's 111 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: Day morning and was like, surprise, here's your gift helping 112 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: me with my podcast. Now I got him an actual gift, 113 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: but I can't tell you because he's right here. 114 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm getting some indications that the actual gift is 115 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: not going to be to my life. 116 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: So ground crickets actually get a little bit Twilight Vampire 117 00:06:59,160 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: with their romance. 118 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: Have you seen Twilight? 119 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? 120 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: You know that doesn't sound like you've actually seen it. 121 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,559 Speaker 1: I have, look, I have not seen or read. 122 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 3: Oh come on, Twilight. I distinctly remember the scene where 123 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: Bella was shown her her dad's house and she sulkily says, 124 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: one bathroom. 125 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: Oh wow, so you have. 126 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: To she has to share it with her her step 127 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 3: to dad whatever it is? 128 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, No, that that the tracks with the theme 129 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: of the movie, which is that if you date a vampire, 130 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: you get more bathrooms. Yeah. So these ground crickets get 131 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit Twilight Vampire with 132 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: their romance because the males will offer some of their 133 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: blood to consume during mating. Isn't that a thing in 134 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,119 Speaker 1: Twilight where he like gets like Bella gets turned into 135 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: a vampire by like drinking the bodily secretions of Edward. 136 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: There you are with bodily secretions. 137 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm you know, it's a biology podcast, Honey, We've got 138 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: to say nutritional secretions at least five times. 139 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 3: Okay, that's great, Okay, but in any case, I don't 140 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: I did not get that far in Twilight. But that 141 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: makes sense. By like the third or the fourth book, 142 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: you just have to, like the rest of the romance 143 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 3: has run its course, and you just have to do 144 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: something crazy like turn Bella into a vampire. 145 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: Right, I think, like, like I've actually so despite not 146 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: having watched the movies or read the books, I have 147 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: read things about Twilight quite a bit because I find 148 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: it really fascinating. And I think also like they have 149 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: a baby, but I don't understand like if the baby 150 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: is a vampire. Like I don't really understand vampire biology, 151 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: like whether it's like genetic or like whether you have 152 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: to like it's if it's like some kind of like 153 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: thing where you have to consume the blood of other 154 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: vampires or they have to like bite you, Like did 155 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: they have to bite their own baby? Maybe I don't really. 156 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 3: Know exactly, but yeah, the vampires cannot reproduce on their 157 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 3: own they except by turning another living human into a vampire. 158 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 3: They cannot reproduce in the regular human way you're. 159 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: Thinking about nose feratus. These are sexy vampires and they 160 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: live by different rules than the nose faratu rules. I see, 161 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: because like nose feratus, I'm pretty sure nos feratus uh 162 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: don't can't reproduce because like they're basically everything's all withered 163 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: down there. 164 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: They have no more secretions. 165 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: They have no more secretions going on exactly. Anyways, back 166 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: to actual biologies. So, nuptial gifts are not always like 167 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: a sweet gesture, right, Sometimes they are like mutually beneficial 168 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: to the male and the female and so like in 169 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: terms of like arthropods, I guess that's as close to 170 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: a romantic sweet gesture as you can get. But some 171 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: nuptial gifts actually decreats the female's overall fitness in exchange 172 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: for a more successful short term mating or reproductive success, 173 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: which would primarily benefit the male who is passing on 174 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: his DNA, but not the female in terms of her 175 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: lifetime reproduction. These are called media gifts, after the Greek 176 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: myth of media. So Medea was the wife to Jason 177 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: who had so Jason decides to abandon Medea for a 178 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: new wife who is like the daughter of a king, 179 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: and so media sends poisoned gifts to the new wife, 180 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: which is apparently a dress and a tiara covered in poison, 181 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: which like why, I don't really understand how ancient poisons work, 182 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: but like as soon as you pick up a dress, 183 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't you be like, wow, this is like soaking in poison. 184 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: I don't exactly know how you poison address. 185 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: Well, maybe you misinterpreted it as one of the secretions. 186 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: You're like, ooh, addressed with secretions my favorite kind. 187 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I think that's what you're trying to tell 188 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 3: me here. Yeah, secretions are sexy. 189 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm getting nutritional secretions for my gift. I can 190 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: already tell so. Uh. Sometimes in it like there are 191 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: of course the insects and arthropods that will give like 192 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: these gifts usually like it's not like a poison that 193 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: like kills the female, but it's like it's something that 194 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: like it could be like a spermatophoor envelope or something 195 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: that that will increase her short term fitness but actually 196 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: decrease her long term fitness. So it's like cocaine exactly, 197 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: like cocaine or meth or meth exactly that that's uh, 198 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: it's the gift that keeps on giving or not. Actually, 199 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: I just said it doesn't. 200 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 3: So I'm getting some some good ideas for my gift. 201 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: So sometimes males give worthless gifts to females as a 202 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: deception to improve mating chances while not spending the cost 203 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: or effort to give a real gift. So this happens 204 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: in the spider Pisara mirabilis, which is a small brown 205 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: spider found all over Europe. It doesn't look very interesting, 206 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: but it has a very interesting behavior. So the males 207 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: typically wrap up a dead insect for the female, offer 208 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: it to her as a gift, and while she's busy 209 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: like unwrapping, they you know, they get busy with their 210 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: mating business and it gives the female more patience for 211 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: the male to mate and that increases the success of 212 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: their mating. But sometimes some of these males in this 213 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: species will wrap up just nothing and offer this empty package, 214 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: this empty wrapped silk package to the female and hopes 215 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: for the best, and this actually does improve mating chances 216 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: versus no gift giving. But the female will typically when 217 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: she opens it up and she's like, hey, wait a minute, 218 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: there's nothing in there, that's it mating over. 219 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: But it's silk. What else does she want? 220 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: She wants a dead juicy insect. Oh, I see, it's 221 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: all about the It's all about the secretion cent Very well, 222 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: we are going to take a quick break while I 223 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: try to get Brett used to the word secretions so we. 224 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 2: Can continue the podcast like adults. 225 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: But when we return, we are going to talk about 226 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: a very metal romance, Okatie. 227 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 3: There's another point of view from economists, this one from 228 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 3: Greg Manke, which suggests that gift giving is a way 229 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 3: of signaling private information to one's partner. So the private 230 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 3: information is your love or devotion to your partner, and 231 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 3: because gift giving is costly, you have to go all 232 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 3: the time to find an appropriate gift that's very well 233 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 3: suited to your partner. And that then, uh, it's it's 234 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: a signal to your partner that oh he really he 235 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 3: or she or they really does love me, and you know, 236 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 3: so it's kind of a signal of love or devotion. 237 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 3: Does that type of signaling also exist in the animal kingdom? 238 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, So it's really interesting because this happens 239 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: in birds species, especially where you have when you have 240 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: parents who like there are a lot of birds that 241 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: form these long term monogamous pairs. They sometimes form it 242 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: just over one breeding season, but some form it over 243 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: an entire lifetime. And the cost is high if you 244 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: mate with someone who will just give up and abandon you, 245 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: because in a lot of for a lot of birds, 246 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: sometimes you need both parents to be not only like 247 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: helping guard the nest, but also providing food. Like some birds, 248 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: like you'll have one partner sitting on the egg and 249 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: the other partner has to go out and find food. 250 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: And you see this from any anything from penguins to 251 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: two cans, like this is very common or you you 252 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: really have to have this exchange of like this, This 253 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: male or even both parents has. 254 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: To be really devoted. 255 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: Otherwise you're screwed because like you've you've paired off and 256 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: then if you have you lay your egg and then 257 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: your partner just goes like, well whatever, I don't care 258 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: anymore and goes and hunts for himself and then doesn't 259 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: like return to you. You could die or your your 260 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: chicks could die. 261 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: So it's very important to. 262 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: Show the devotion the effort that this this partner is 263 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: going to put effort into the relationship and really is 264 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: invested in the relationship, otherwise you could be really screwed. 265 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: Down the line. 266 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: And then also you see this it's often like where 267 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: the female has to be choosy, like like the typical 268 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: kind of thing is like the female has more to 269 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: lose in these situations than the male. But there are 270 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: a lot of species where both the male and female 271 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: have to equally participate in the rearing of offspring, and 272 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: so in those cases you actually often see like mating 273 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: rituals where both the female male are trying to impress 274 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: each other because they both are equally invested, they will 275 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: often have a This is actually very common in seabirds 276 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: because what will happen with them is you'll have one 277 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: parent sitting on the nest and guarding the either the 278 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: eggs or the chicks, and then the other parent off 279 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: hunting for fish or whatever, and that one has to come. 280 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: Back and they will switch off rolls, so. 281 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: Like one will hunt one day and find fish and 282 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: the other day the other one will go off. So 283 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: then they really both need to be equally impressive, and 284 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: so they'll have courtship rituals where they're both trying to 285 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: impress each other also in those species the sexual dimorphism, 286 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: meaning like one bird looks like usually female birds look 287 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: kind of drab and the males are really fancy and pretty. 288 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: In these species like puffins and other kinds of seabirds. 289 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: Like ox like, they both as like the same. 290 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: It's hard to tell the difference between males and females. 291 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 3: But why do you why do you think this behavior 292 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 3: is specific to seabirds, Like, is it is it something 293 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 3: about the extremity of the environment that like, I mean especially, well, 294 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: are puffins in the Arctic or is this just like. 295 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're in the Arctic circle puffins. 296 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 3: Right, So so then you know if it's if it's 297 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 3: it's a really extreme environment, and so then you really 298 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 3: really need the investment of both parents to guarantee survival. 299 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: Is that is that very reasonable? 300 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I think so, I mean, so you do. 301 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: It's not only. 302 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: Seabirds that that this happens, Like, there are other birds 303 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: where they're both uh uh, you know, pretty much equally invested. 304 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: I mean in sometimes sometimes it's like sort of uh like, 305 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: so for instance, with two cans, what's interesting about that 306 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: is they live in an environment where there's a lot 307 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: of snakes, a lot of egg eating predators, and so 308 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: you have the female who seals herself up in a 309 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: basically a hollow of a tree and uses like mud 310 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: and feces to create like a door. I'm sorry, we 311 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: always have to come back to feces on this podcast 312 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: and secretions of some kind. 313 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: But then so she's she's essentially. 314 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: Locked herself in the tree hollow, and the male, if 315 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: he at all wants this egg to survive, has to 316 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: provide her constantly with food. And so even though the female, 317 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: it seems like the female is risking more because she's 318 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: like in the hollow of a tree, and to a 319 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: certain extent, that's true. She can't. She could if she 320 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: wanted to break out and like abandon the egg, and 321 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: then the male's reproduction success would be screwed. Or the 322 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: male if he just decides, I don't want to be 323 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: feeding food to this tree anymore, like he would screw 324 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: her chance of reproductive success. So they both have to 325 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: like essentially be equally invested in the survival of this 326 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: offspring for this to work. And so they they actually 327 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: look very similar in terms of their there's not a 328 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: lot of sexual dimorphism, and so, like with with seabirds, 329 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: I would say, like puffins with with these arcs albatrosses. Yeah, 330 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: like they have to leave the nesting area, which like 331 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: is not usually usually the nesting area does not have 332 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: a lot of food because it's like going to be 333 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: like on an island or something where you have like 334 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: these rocky outcroppings and then the birds leave to go 335 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: to the ocean to fish, and so you have you 336 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: really have to go kind of long distances to get 337 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: your food. 338 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 4: And but so it's kind of a function of the 339 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 4: extremity of the environment because if it's like the jungle, 340 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 4: then the food is like is all around you, let's say, 341 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 4: whereas in the Arctic it is. 342 00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 3: Probably far away, right. 343 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: And then the example that I gave of the two 344 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: cans in the jungle, the reason that the environment is 345 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: extreme is because of the amount of danger to your 346 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: egg that like snakes and other predators present, and so 347 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: like the it's not so much that it's super hard 348 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: to find food, but that the female has to seal 349 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: herself into this tree to protect her eggs from snakes. 350 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think like the extremity of the environment 351 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: definitely does play into that kind of like both parents 352 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: have to basically invest versus say systems where the male 353 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: is trying to mate with as many females as possible 354 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: and the females are trying. 355 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: To select the best males. 356 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: But so now we're actually going to talk about another bird, 357 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: because sometimes romance involves just like a lot of horrifying impaling. So, like, 358 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: the great gray shrike is a cute gray and black 359 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: song bird, only about as like long as a piece 360 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: of printer paper, weighs around two ounces. It's actually pretty cute. 361 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 2: It's got like a little like. 362 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: Black eye mask, but essentially it just looks like kind 363 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: of a regular bird. It's not very impressive looking. It's cute. 364 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: It's a nice looking bird, but you know, normal looking, 365 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: and it lives throughout Eurasia and North Africa. 366 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 2: It has a variety of nicknames. 367 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: It has verkan Vogel, which means choking bird in a 368 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: German dialect. There's nigandor, which means killer of nine prey. 369 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: In English. They were called like murdering pies, which I 370 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: think is because it looks like a magpie and it 371 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: does like to murder. It's also known as the great 372 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: butcher bird. So it is a bird that kills small 373 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: prey like grasshoppers, or bigger prey like voles, mice, small birds, 374 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: or even juvenile stoats, and once it's killed them, it 375 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: impales them on sharp thorns of a tree. Let me 376 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: show you actually what this it's like. So here it is. 377 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: I think that's like a field mouse or something that 378 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: it has impaled. You see what I mean though, Like 379 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: this bird does not look so scary. It's cute, right, 380 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: it's just a little guy. And yet here it is 381 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: with like a mouse, fully impaled on a thorn on 382 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: a tree. Here it is tearing off chunks of flesh 383 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: from the thing that it has already impaled. 384 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: And here you see the relative size. 385 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: It's like it looks about the size of like a 386 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: mocking bird or something, maybe even a little smaller. It's 387 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: really but yeah, they are vicious, vicious predators. Oh, here's 388 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: the one where it's just killed robins. Sometimes they grab 389 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: birds mid flight, they like go under them, grab them 390 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: by the feet, and then kill them. Yeah. 391 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: So how do they kill them? Is it by the 392 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 3: impaling process or some other way? 393 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: And then yeah, oh. 394 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 3: And then impaling storage Yeah. 395 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: So the latter, So it's a they typically kill them 396 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: by using their sturdy, hooked beak to like hit them 397 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: on the skull, and impaling them usually isn't what kills them, 398 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: although of course that probably happens sometimes. Yeah, it's going 399 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: to finish the job for sure, But the the the 400 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: impaling them is as you guessed, storage, and it's also 401 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: like a way to it's essentially like a kebab because 402 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: it sticks them somewhere and makes it easier for the 403 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: strike to pull off pieces of flesh rather than having 404 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: to consume the whole item, like because you see it 405 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: like with a hawk, right, it's big. It kills a vole, 406 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: it can just like eat that whole thing on the spot, 407 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: or an owl like owls will like eat the thing whole, 408 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: ingest it and then you know, vomit up like awl 409 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: pellets that contain the fur and stuff. So for a 410 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: smaller bird of prey like the shrike, what's it going 411 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: to do. It can't eat the prey that it's capable 412 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: of killing like this large prey, so it stores it 413 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: on these spikes and then it can tear off small 414 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: pieces of flesh throughout the day, throughout the week. They've 415 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: even been known to stick certain insects that have toxins 416 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,479 Speaker 1: in them, and as the insect decomposes, the toxin actually 417 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: degrades and they can then eat this insect later that 418 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: they couldn't eat initially. 419 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 3: But so if it's storing a piece of prey for 420 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 3: up to a week, then it isn't that prey getting 421 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 3: just tons of bacteria and other bad stuff. So does 422 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 3: that mean that the shrike has a really powerful immune 423 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 3: system or how does that work? 424 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a really good question. I don't know exactly. 425 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: I would say, like, yes, probably it is capable of 426 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: digesting a lot of these these bacteria. I wonder. I 427 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: think it's a good question because there's probably some mediation 428 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: of like what it eats more quickly and what it 429 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: waits to eat, right, because there's evidence that it does 430 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: weight to eat, say like a toxic insect, that it 431 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: not like it that when it degrades it actually makes 432 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: it safer to eat. Maybe prioritizes eating things that get 433 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: more dangerous that the longer you leave it, and then 434 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: it will eat save for later the ones that are 435 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: more toxic. And this is kind of speculation, right, Like 436 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly, but I would say, given that 437 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: they do seem to take into account timing when eating 438 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: like poisonous insects. It would also make sense for them 439 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: to account for timing when it comes to prioritizing, like 440 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: food that would essentially spoil. But like a lot of 441 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: animals will eat carrion, right, Like, there's a lot of 442 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: food that would make us sick. That would make the 443 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: average like hyena vulture, you know, random animal not sick. Right, 444 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: they might have strong, really strong stomach acid that will 445 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: kill off this bacteria. So I would suspect the same 446 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: thing with this strike that it is able to handle 447 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: some bacteria. But it does like it doesn't leave the 448 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: food just rotting for like weeks, It'll eat it within 449 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: a few days typically. But they are also huge romantics, 450 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: So males will create a very gruesome display for females 451 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: just sticking a bunch of dead animals onto the thorns, 452 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: and he will actually present her with a gift, so 453 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: directly give her a dead animal. The bigger the better, right, 454 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: Like she is impressed by a large she's impressed by 455 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: a large award place to stop. She's impressed by a 456 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: large prey item, and he will offer this to her 457 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: as a gift. If he's successful, they will form a 458 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: monogamous pair bond for the breeding season, not for life. 459 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: So a lot of birds do this where they form 460 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: a pair bond for the breeding season, but once that's over, 461 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: you're back on the market. Maybe you'll be with the 462 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: same partner if you really like we're impressed with them, 463 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: or maybe you go back on the market again. So 464 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: some birds will pair bond for life, but these ones 465 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: they basically this this dead mouse on a stick strategy 466 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: only lasts for one mating season. 467 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 3: Interesting, so, how how big can this. 468 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 2: Get the the prey? 469 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the the prey display like. 470 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: How how many like like usually it's like just sort 471 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: of they have this larder, Yeah they can. They can 472 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: sometimes have a large larder where they have multiple prey 473 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: items like stuck on just like spelling out. 474 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: Go to prom with me and dead mice? Yeah no exactly. 475 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 2: But usually the. 476 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: Thing that will impress the female is that the male 477 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: actually offers a single large prey item to her. So 478 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: like he may have sort of a larder that like 479 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: attracts her, but then like he will give her like hey, 480 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: check out this huge dead vowl or like I found 481 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: a baby stoat, and I'm presenting it to you, and 482 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: that's what will compel her. 483 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 2: To mate with him. 484 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 3: And does the female eat the prey that was presented 485 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 3: to her? 486 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: I that's a good question. I think she probably probably 487 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: sticks it on a thorn and starts eating it. She's 488 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: not gonna eat the whole thing right like, she can't, 489 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: so she probably will stick it, kebab it and maybe 490 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: eat it a little bit, save some of it for later, 491 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: you know, like how you get a box of chocolates, 492 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: you don't generally you don't eat the whole thing right 493 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: in front of your partner. Definitely, I'm impressed at your 494 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: cookie eating abilities. Like, we'll get some cookies and then 495 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: just like it's an incredible volume that somehow disappears somehow. 496 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: All right, well, we're gonna take a quick cookie break, 497 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: and when we get back, we are going to talk 498 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: about a best friend to the ladies that's better than diamonds. 499 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: So they say that diamonds are a girl's best friend, 500 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: but the sixth spot Burnett moth would disagree. Do you 501 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: think that's a good segue? So the six spot burnet 502 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: moth is a small moth found throughout Europe, that is 503 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: black with these striking bright red spots. See it's pretty, right, Yeah, 504 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: that's cool. Yeah, it's very It's like it's a little goth, 505 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: right because it's like red and black or. 506 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 2: Is that emo? I don't know, I'm I'm out of style. 507 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a pretty it's a pretty moth, and 508 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: it's really brightly colored. It's really striking. But this coloration, 509 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: this bright red coloration with black as contrast, is actually 510 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: an example of aposimitism, meaning that it warns predators that 511 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: they are toxic, and this toxic is cyanide. So cyanide 512 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: is released when the moth is injured to ward off predators, 513 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: and larva will get cyanide from their diet of a 514 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: plant called bird's foot trefoil, which you know, cool name 515 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: for a plant. But yeah, maturation into adulthood, so the 516 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: transformation from a caterpillar into a moth depletes some of 517 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: this supply. So in order to ensure the success of 518 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: his partner and her offspring, males will actually offer females 519 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: a gift of cyanide. So, uh, this gift, but I'll 520 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: just I think to speculate that it probably is given 521 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: through his sperm. Or sperm packet, which somehow replenishes her 522 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: cyanide supplies, which allows her greater defense, and also she 523 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: passes some of this on to her offspring to give 524 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: them a good sort of start in life. You know, 525 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: it's like a nest egg, but cyanide. Yeah, so you 526 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: know it's a you know, if you're if you're struggling 527 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: to come up with a gift. 528 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 3: For for your I'm not going to get you cyanide, but. 529 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: You know it has a lovely almondy flavor. No, it's 530 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: a don't don't don't eat cyanide. It's bad for you, 531 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: and it does it doesn't taste good like delicious almonds. 532 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: It does actually smell like almonds though. 533 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 2: That's what's interesting. 534 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, boy has like a sort of bitter almondy smell. 535 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: So if you if someone like gives you like, like 536 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: would you like some tea, and then hands you tea 537 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: and then they're like really sweaty and your tea. 538 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 2: Kind of smells like almonds, maybe don't drink it. 539 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 3: Are you saying specifically bitter almonds? 540 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? 541 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: Well, hang on, I'm okay, So I know I sound 542 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: like I'm a poison expert, but I'm not, uh, but 543 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,479 Speaker 1: and I have personally never smelled cyanide. Yeah, it's like 544 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: people say it has like a bitter almond smell bitter almonds? 545 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 3: So what is it? Bitter almond? Is that kind of 546 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 3: like rancid almond? 547 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's like rancid maybe, but I mean, 548 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: like it's like I think it is as it is described, 549 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: a bitter almond, but like maybe, yeah, I don't I 550 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: don't know how an odor is bitter. Like for me, 551 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: bitter is kind of more of a taste than an odor. 552 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: So okay, so like an aroma of bitter almonds or marzipan, 553 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: you like marzapan. 554 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is. 555 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: Dangerous for you, very dangerous for me. 556 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: Because like I could just slip that right. Yeah, you 557 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't even know because you like you like almond flavored 558 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: like cookies and stuff. Well, better really think about your 559 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,719 Speaker 1: gift that you're gonna give me for Valentine's Day. Huh 560 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: uh No, so yeah, I mean for these months. This 561 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: is uh, the gift of a defensive weapon of cyanide 562 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: is truly the most romantic thing I see. 563 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 3: But it's like the the male is giving up some 564 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 3: of his own defensive weapons. 565 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: Right exactly. But what he's doing is he may be 566 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: trading off some of his own defense, but this is 567 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: more likely to ensure the success of his offspring. And 568 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: so you do see, like, parental sacrifice can be made 569 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: as long as it is increases, on net your chance 570 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: of passing on your DNA. Like, if your sacrifice in 571 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: terms of of fitness does not actually improve your lifetime 572 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: reproductive success, then you won't do it. But if it does, 573 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: then you'll do it. So like that's why in some 574 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: animals you might wonder, like, well, these animals seem to 575 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: like abandon. 576 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 2: Their offspring like or. 577 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: Do something that seems like selfish and self interested. And 578 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, they'll absolutely do that as long as that, 579 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: on net improves their lifetime reproductive success. Like if they 580 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: if they are reproducing a lot throughout their life, they're 581 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: actually less likely to fully sacrifice for their offspring in 582 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: any given sort of like mating, right, But if they 583 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: don't do a lot of repeat reproduction like this moth, 584 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: like it's like kind of a one shot sort of deal, 585 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: then they will. They'll give it there all right, this moth, 586 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: I think only reproduces once and so it's it's shooting 587 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: a shot given everything it's got for its offspring. You 588 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: know what's more? What's more romantic than that than a 589 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: big self sacrificing gesture and then like essentially just disintegrating later. 590 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 2: But all the what's all, That's what all the rom. 591 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: Coms have taught me is like a guy can be 592 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: a huge jerk, but as long as they do like 593 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: one huge like they hold a boom box up over 594 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: their head and like show you like you've married their 595 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: best friend. But then they show up to your door 596 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: with like a huge love letter written on poster board 597 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: and stuff, and you got you gotta hand it to them, right, 598 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: you gotta be like, oh, that's so sweet, not call 599 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: the police. All right, Well, before we go, we've got 600 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: to play a little game. 601 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 3: Do you like games? 602 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: All right? 603 00:35:54,080 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: This game is called Eat the Almond Cookie. Oh, don'tat 604 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: the danger one. No, this is the Mystery Animal Sound Game. So, uh, 605 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: this is the game guess who's squawking where you guess 606 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: who is making this sound. It can be any animal 607 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: in the world. You gotta guess who is making that sound. 608 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna play a sound for you. Hang on, 609 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: I don't want no cheating, even though you're. 610 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 5: Hey. 611 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: The hint is this, these Canadians think you're a hoser. 612 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 3: H the seal No, keep going? Is a creature? No, 613 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 3: fat water creature. 614 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 2: We're not. 615 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: I guess we're paying playing fifty questions now. No, it's 616 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: not a water creature. Well most of the time. It's 617 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: not a water creature. 618 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 3: Not a phinnic fox. No, I have no idea. 619 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: It's a moose. 620 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: It's a moose. Moose, mouss moose. 621 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 3: So, I mean sometimes that's a good swimmers. 622 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 1: They're actually good swimmers. So it is making moose sounds. 623 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: These grunts are from a female moose, possibly communicating with 624 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: her mate, which I think. 625 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 2: Is very sexy of this female. 626 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 3: Truck horn. 627 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: Yes, so moose seems goofy, but they are actually relatively dangerous. 628 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: Have you have you seen a moose before in person? 629 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 3: Or was it an elk? I saw saw a giant Yeah, 630 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 3: it was in Maine, crossing the road. I think it 631 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 3: was a moose, but it was enormous. I'm very tall, 632 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 3: but it is significantly taller than me. 633 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 634 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 3: Crazy, how giant those things are. 635 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're like six feet tall at the shoulders. 636 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: But then when you include their antlers and their head, 637 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: they are significantly taller than six feet and you're you're 638 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: quite tall. But yeah, if a moose with a bowl moose, 639 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: like a male moose with all its antlers, I think 640 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: would beat you. They also can weigh. 641 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 3: Unless I slowly ate bits of cyanide until I built 642 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 3: up my cyanide, And then I guess that would mean 643 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 3: the moose would have to eat me. So this is 644 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 3: a poorly thought out defense mechanism. 645 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: Right, well, you know, I mean a moose would maybe 646 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: not want to eat you after a few bites of 647 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: like bitter almond flavor. But yeah, you. 648 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 3: See, this is why I've been eating the almonds almond 649 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 3: cookies all the time. 650 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: Oh maybe if you eat enough almonds, you just smell 651 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: like you have cyanide, and you like, you don't actually 652 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: have cyanide, but you smell enough almondy flavor that you 653 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 1: might seem like you're cyanide. I moose, don't you. Moose 654 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: don't eat people. Moose don't eat people. So a male 655 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: moose can weigh over sixteen hundred pounds, which is seven 656 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five kilograms. And but yeah, despite being 657 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: so huge and bulky. They can actually swim on very 658 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: rare occasion, this is not typical. They can actually be 659 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: preyed upon by orcas, So there's kind of a myth 660 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: that orcas like routinely prey upon moose. They can't, like 661 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: it has been seen to happen where an orca eats 662 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: a moose, but it's not typical. Otherwise, the only threat 663 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: that moose face are from humans, bears, and wolves. But yeah, 664 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: they are pretty pretty big and they don't have too 665 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: much to worry about, and so you know they uh 666 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: will they'll you know, make those really attractive noises when 667 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: communicating with me. 668 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 3: I mean, I guess they have to be loud, right, 669 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 3: because they're pretty spread apart. 670 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's true, like to communicate over long distances. 671 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: But also just you know, he doesn't love a moosey grunt. 672 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 3: I mean, don't they communicate like through the Wi Fi 673 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 3: enabled antlers. 674 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: Onto this week's mister animal sound. 675 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 2: The hint is. 676 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: This this monk is ignoring his vows of celibacies and 677 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: is on the market for hanky panky. 678 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 5: Oh right, it's the animal noise that was used to 679 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 5: signal that you're connecting to the internet when we had 680 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 5: dial up. 681 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: It's dial up which was only used by virgins, which 682 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: is why I was saying vows solabusy. Uh yeah, so 683 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: your guess is that it's dial. 684 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 2: Up internet all right. 685 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: Well, if you think you know the answer out there, 686 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: you can write to me at Creature feature Pod at 687 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. You can also write to me your questions, 688 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 1: your pet pictures, you know, general comments, whatever. Brittney, thank 689 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: you so much for. 690 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 2: Joining me today. 691 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. 692 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 2: You can now go back downstairs. 693 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: No get out, get out. 694 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 2: And thank you guys so much for listening. 695 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying the show, If you leave a ratio review, 696 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: I deeply, deeply appreciate it. I read all the reviews, 697 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: all of them, every single one. And thank you to 698 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: the Space Classics for their's super awesome song XO. 699 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:47,760 Speaker 2: Lumina. 700 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like 701 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: the one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple 702 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: podcast or he guess what are you listening your favorite shows? 703 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,439 Speaker 1: I don't care, I don't judge. You got your mother, 704 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: You do what you want, You live your own life. 705 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: I'll see you next Wednesday.